From today’s earlier Advent post:
It was not my intent to be divisive during this holy and joyful season. I had hoped to offer something to all Christians of benefit during these rushed days. That is what all my posts are meant to do. I regret that it is not to be.
I find the above comment reasonable, and in that spirit I am putting up a post for those who would like to share further thoughts in this season (soon) of Advent from a Protestant perspective. I ask my fellow Catholics to respect this as much as we wish our own viewpoints to be given opportunity and attention.
Please note. This is not an open opportunity for anyone to bash the faith of another. It is not a forum for you to argue theology or Protestant vs. Catholic ideas of salvation. This blog is not a place for religious apologetics, it has a different purpose, and there are thousands of sites where you can do that very thing, if you must. You will not do it here. If it becomes too much to moderate this post, I’ll chalk it up to a bad idea and trash it.
Happy Advent, and may we all find ways to open our doors to the Holy Family seeking shelter this season, ways that will deepen our ability to welcome Christ with love, on Christmas and every day.
Celebrate the joys of anyone who loves God…shared your post with my kids!
Wonderful words.
I do not care what your religion is or is not. We still enjoy the holiday and give thanks to our higher power who or whatever that may be for you. Tis the season enjoy it!
God cares. Jn 4:23-24
I celebrate Christ, our Redeemer. I am so thankful and grateful that He loves all of us, no matter our age, or denomination, or race, or social status, etc. God is so much bigger than our constructs, so more accepting of our feeble attempts to follow Him.
I appreciate the Treehouse for so many reasons, one of which is ALWAYS putting God first. This is an amazing “place”.
in light of 2 Thes 5-12 how can you make that statement?
If this were a valid biblical reference, we could consider making a comment.
2 Thes 1: 5-12, Jn 17:9, Ps 5:5, Ps 7:11, Ps 11:5
I could counter with
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
and note that God’s love for us is perfected, even though our love is not. The difficulties we face in this life are not punishment but reproof and instruction of a loving creator. God is a consuming fire, but what He consumes is our willingness to do or tolerate evil, in order to perfect our sanctification.
But honestly, I think the truth is somewhere between those. I think God will surprise you (Wristburn) at how many people He chooses to save but surprise you (Born Free American Woman) at how few enter His rest (i.e., the millenial kingdom of Christ). As Paul suggests in Phil. 2:12, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” That does not mean works will save you, but that works will lessen the consuming fire.
be happy, feel something good these days. make the most of it…
don’t let anyone rob you of the time you have ‘when they arent directly treading on us so hard’ we can’t enjoy family and friends.
Coming from a Methodist tradition, Advent (and Lent) were always important liturgical seasons. In my experience, you didn’t attend church service until you were confirmed. Instead you went to “Sunday School” and Advent was always a time of preparation.
Bible verse on that???
?Really?
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/regulative-principle-worship
Your link is a great example how men impose their philosophy on religion. The very reason for the multiplicity of Protestant Churches. Each and every one trying their best to worship based on their reading of God’s Word. And none agreeing with the others in all things.
But seriously, demanding scriptural backing up of personal experiences?
It does seem some are seeking contention, n’est-ce pas?
Sure enough does.
Where do they think they are?
Everybody knows that stuff won’t play here.
Romans 10:9-10, the only essential. Blessings.
AMEN.
Huh. Looks like Menagerie may have to start yet a third thread?? Because it seems like the first two threads aren’t workin’ for you…
Let’s just ignore Writburn and enjoy each other’s company in the Body/Bride of Christ.
jmo
Thank you Heavenly Father that it is by Your Holy Spirit that we may fellowshipe with both You and each other.
Looking forward to meeting you in heaven/ on the other side……no rush though…lol!
I was raised Catholic. I was an altar boy until 6th grade then stopped everything completely due to family struggles blahblahblah. I later was baptized as a Christian. As a Christian, I don’t recall Advent ever being stressed as such.
When I read the initial post earlier with the breakdown of the seasons it kind of hit me as profound, but that may be because I’m reading The Man Who Was Thursday and therefor vulnerable to Catholic apologetics 🙂
The only reason I ever got Christmas presents from my parents growing up is because Father Renehan gave my dad $200 at the midnight service for playing the organ. Two good men by my estimation.
I have been puzzled by what the difference is between ChristanIty and Catholicism. Aren’t Catholics Christians? I believe everyone who follows Christ is by definition a Christian. I am not Catholic, I’m Anglican, but I consider Catholics to be every bit as Christian as I am.
There are three branches of Christianity: Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant.
Christianity is the tree, the three mentioned above are the branches hanging down.
All three believe in the central tenets of Christianity, and all celebrate the Advent season.
In those branches too are the Christian Messianics. Granted, we don’t celebrate Christmas at all as there is no commandment to celebrate the Lord’s birth. But in the spirit of Hannukah and its dedication of the Temple to God I can fully appreciate what Christmas is to the organized Christian churches. That being said, as a Messianic I observe “Christmas” to be 10 days before Shavuot, aka Pentecost. The day Yeshugn ascended into Heaven was the anniversary of His Birth.
Very reasonable , Menagerie, and a demonstration of a gracious spirit as well.
Thank you.
We Protestants have often lost the season of Advent in a leap to Christmas, other than a few Sunday’s worth of O Come O Come Emmanuel.
These past few years have seen that neglect undone, I think.
May we all benefit from a season of expectation of the arrival of that time beyond time, God With Us in the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Menagerie I never took your Advent post as a Catholic Advent. I just don’t believe there is a Protestant or Catholic Advent to me there is only a Christian Advent celebrated by Christians in many different denominations differently and that’s ok. To me a lot can be learned from more liturgical and traditional denominations for those of us in a more modern day contemporary church! They can bring more meaning and depth to Christmas is my belief so I always look forward to your posts. I have always enjoyed them. I hope they won’t stop because of this! JMO
Agree 100% .
Truth.
Verdad for our Latino amigo/as. 🙏🏽
Shortly before one Christmas Patrick Henry witnessed a man tied to a post in the town square whipped to death by Hessian mercenaries. He inquired whatever horrible crime the man could have done to have been sentenced to such a gruesome fate?
Preaching without a license.
I am here to defend Street preachers. ALL street preachers. And that CANNOT HAPPEN WITHOUT FREE SPEECH.
You are either part of the solution, or part of the problem. Pick a side, raise a black flag, and become a free speech pirate too. These puppet shows are meant to keep us quiet. Don’t allow puppets to replace your voice.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
This is a clever though cruel twist on your eternal defamation efforts at CTH.
Clearly your protestations have little to do with the spirit of the season, or of the Treehouse.
To those that see these words as uncharitable, I regret to inform you that we have serial abusers of our trust and charity that resurrect themselves after endless bannings with new nomenclatures in order to slime us and our beloved Treehouse, this individual is singing that same song of pointless spite.
I said to pick a side and you have professed yours. Well done.
Are you paid for your efforts at strife or is this a personal passion project?
I will speak free or die trying.
Answer your question?
“Like”
By the way, isn’t calling me ‘clever and cruel’ agaisnt CTH speech rules? Like all communists you exempt yourselves from your own speech rules.
You take too much credit.
Marquis didn’t call you clever or cruel. Those were apt words to describe your post.
You say you support preaching and exclaim Merry Christmas. Why don’t you share the importance of Christmas to you?
Better yet, this is a thread on advent from a Protestant perspective. So share how advent helps you to better worship Christ. How it focuses you on Christ.
Red, I think you have misinterpreted “waiting for approval” message.
You can lie here or truthfully answer this question: Do you use multiple devices to access TCTH?
In the past I encountered it when switching devices (computer to phone).
Pro tip: use one device to post comments.
This character has been banned dozens of times, there’s no sincerity in it, it’s not miffed at waiting for his missive to post, he’s instigating and defaming.
Treepers are so kind! Sometimes, though, it’s not merited.
If that is the case it has real issues. Pity the fool.
How do you know that he’s been banned
Trust me….he’s been banned once more
Bam!
TY! Can he/she come back with a new name?
“Silverbeard the Red’ we hardly knew ye!
He is easily spotted and identified by his musings.
Indeed.
C’est vrai
What in the world does your rant have to do with Advent?
Does hijacking an Advent thread to bloviate your views add or detract from the intentions of the thread?
Asking for a friend.
“The civil liberty of all these cults propagates the pestilence of indifferentism.” – Pope Pius IX
And here we are with DEI being promulgated from the pulpits of the governmental hierarchies.
Case in point- The National Railroad Museum in Green Bay doubles down on their indifferentism to a satanic Christmas tree display.
Thank you for doing this, Menagerie.
It means a lot.
Although I’m not Catholic, I’ve learned and benefited much from what I’ve learned here, much of it from your posts.
I hope this choice to share produces the fruit of understanding and only feeds our fellowship as Christians.
God bless.
I still eat fish on Fridays due to my Catholic upbringing, but nowadays do not put a label on my relationship with God/Jesus. I don’t recite prayers but speak to Him mentally with ordinary English words of thanks, pleas, and wishes. I am not God-fearing, but believe in His benevolence and love. God is my friend, advisor, helper, Lord, creator, benefactor, leader, teacher, and much more. My relationship with him is real and personal, so labels (denominations) mean almost nothing to me.
Amen and Amen… I’m right there with you, No One Important
^^^This^^^
What he said. I’m speaking of No One Important. My love for our Lord Jesus Christ needs no denomination. I try to share His glory and awesomeness with those that will listen, otherwise I share the joy of my relationship with HIM, and smile deep within knowing that HE loves me as well and that He has grown and become an integral part of my life, my being!
Completely empathize with your post, however, I personally do fear our Lord. I believe he has saved me (Mark 9:24). But I also believe He is so far beyond what we can comprehend that a split-second exposure to Him would, at minimum, make us fall to the ground and try to dig a hole with our foreheads. I love how the soldiers fell down and away when the Lord gently said “I am He.”
I’ve posted this before, but the loving and merciful Lord who created us and saves us, also created the wolverine. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 9:10).
I hope your Advent is wonderful.
Well said.
Amen.
Best advent wishes to you, too.
Happy Advent, and thank you so much, Menagerie!
While I am of the Protestant Faith, I must say i love the posts of the Catholic faith and I look forward to your posts. There is so much about the Catholic faith that I appreciate and find fulfilling and satisfying (sans the current Pope). I love the tradition, respect, reverence and elegance of the liturgy. I regularly watch Michael Matt, and anything Archbishop Vigano puts out, you can be sure I listen to. I have so much respect for this faith and the faithful! Many of my very best friends are Catholic.
I have attended many different types of service, although baptized Episcopal. I loved attending church with my Presbyterian aunt (sadly now passed on), and the Greek Orthodox has much to offer as well.
I thank you, Menagerie, for your postings, for your grace and your humble spirit. I have learned much from you and your postings, and I very much appreciate them. May God Bless and keep you and Happy Advent to you!
Actually, the first people to talk directly to God with no human voice in between was the Jews – just want to give credit where it’s due. They did come before Christianity. Same God.. Remember, Jesus was a Jew.
You mean Israelites. Jews were from Judea, those who remained after ten tribes were taken into captivity.
Adam first, eve 2nd
Wife catholic me former Lutheran. Like to think of all of us as one church in Christ.
The spirit of this season is so profoundly uniting, I don’t recall ever testing others’ perspectives or passions before embracing that spirit, or any requiring my own bona-fides to do the same.
We are all God’s children, all blessed by Him, by this season that invites us to cease seeing others as strangers, and by our Fellowship of the Tree!
If it wasn’t clear, this post was meant to be a hearty concurrence to oldFish’s contribution.
I consider Humanity to be a beloved if contentious family, unity and striving for righteousness is to be treasured.
Lol I suppose it will be poor form to point out Messiah was not born in the dead of winter. Due to rain and mud Israel would be imppassable for donkey riders and walkers in the middle of winter. Rome would not have called for a census at that time. Additionally, the sheep were in the field, which is also something that would not happen in the dead of winter.
On the other hand, by reading the bible closely you can do math in conjunction with the birth of John the Baptist from Elizabeth and discover Jesus was born in September / October, probably in alignment with one of the required feasts, which would be a bookend to His death on the feast of Passover.
Btw that would put His conception 9 months earlier, which is about December 25th!
The whole Christmas around the winter solstice thing is a carry over from the Babylonian myth of Nimrod, Semaramis and Tammuz, that Babylonian priests migrated to Rome when Christianity became the state religion.
Tammuz was the infant (in the Babylonian language “yule” = infant) that was burned in the fire place, and was symbolically reborn as a full tree that was then decorated as we still do today.
As far as “Yule” etymology, some reportedly to the Latin names for months (same with Easter)
https://archive.org/details/CompleteWorksOfVenerableBedeV06
“The first month, which the Latins call January, is Giuli; February is called Solmonath; March, Hrethmonath; April, Eosturmonath; May, Thrimilchi; June, Litha; July, also Litha; August, Weodmonath; September, Halegmonath; October, Winterfilleth; November, Blodmonath; December, Giuli, the same name by which January is called.”
“..Btw that would put His conception 9 months earlier, which is about December 25th!. …”
This speaks essentially to His “arrival” – when Jesus “arrived” is when he was conceived; according to your suggested calculation, we celebrate his *arrival* in physical form.
As a childbirth preparation educator I always made it clear that we aren’t ‘waiting for’ the baby to “arrive”… THE BABY IS HERE NOW; alive within this Mother, yet an individual from their beginning – sensing with heightened super-sensitive perception and imprinting literally everything that is happening in their world = within/around/affecting the Mother; conscious Loving connection (prenatal bonding) to this new individual is a great benefit to all concerned (apathy & ignore-ance/disregard can be the greatest detriment, according to the input given).
One young father was very adamant he just wasn’t ready to be a father so he didn’t want to participate with the Mother & his child; he was breaking up with her. I gave him this perspective – “You are already this baby’s father for the rest of it’s life and for the rest of yours; this baby – your baby – is already here now… just, simply, not yet born into the external world. ” It helped him totally clarify & change his perception and he stepped up into his role strongly and is one of the best examples of Father I can name many years later.
Your point is well taken, even though I haven’t got the Biblical acumen to verify the calculations or the background myth you cite, it seems like common sense.
I totally agree with conception as the “arrival” of an Earthly incarnation & life of a Human. JMHO!
Well done.
Thanks I appreciate you saying so. Blessings on your House, Maquis.
This is a lovely post. Your common sense and perspective are impressive and must have blessed many babies and young families.
And yes, what Stu writes is correct. John the Baptist’s father served in the Temple at a documented and specified date, so it’s a verifiable timeline.
I agree. Conception means we’re here.
Thank you Ma – for such a sweet compliment. I received at least as much – if not much, much more – Blessing myself than was given through my Spiritual assignment to be present for those people. It was intensely and indescribably good – *all good* (even the heartbreaking experiences, for perspective) – and it recalibrated me.
By following that Guidance to be there in those places & times with those people… I was given the opportunity to live out “Be the change you want to see in the world” and I gave myself to it until the assignment was complete. I had lived the opposite, so it was always my imperative to respond with what was needed around that time; in turn I experienced healing… a very great Blessing to be present for many many miracles.
Also thanks for affirming the Biblical timeline. His *arrival* IS worth celebrating as Joyfully as we can do so.
Blessings on your House, Ma.
Isn’t it amazing what God can (and does) do with us when we open our hearts and lives to Him?
Just knocks my socks off.
What a lovely perspective on the life of a child! I love it.
“Your child is already here” should be said to every young woman contemplating the termination of her child’s life.
Used properly, your words could change the world.
That every child were a wanted child would indeed change the world. Most people who reject their pregnancies – both Mothers and Fathers – are afraid they “can’t do” some part – or any part – of parenting. Even though it looks like apathy or anger on the surface, fear is the underlying driver of that kind of rejection.
What they each need to hear is specific to them – but I do agree that changing the perception of when a person *arrives* is one key change of fundamental consciousness we do absolutely need to make to break the hypnosis.
“Clump of cells not a person” is a key, foundational hypnotic suggestion & a pillar of the usurpers’ depopulation-for-profit industry.
I told/tell mothers that their child is here already – and I speak to babies-in-the-womb directly also because they can hear everything – to help them feel the Truth of how profoundly impactful their choices are on that new person before birth; and equally for the kind of birth experience they give their child… perspective is everything.
There are no take-backs OR do-overs. When disruption/disregulation happens this early, the disruption imprints in that person’s blueprint and echos through the rest of life; recalibration is possible yet very challenging, difficult, and complex (just look around, it’s not being done!).
A good analogy is building a house – an error in the foundation in the blueprint means the foundation is built wrong and that is a problem forever in the structural integrity of the entire house. Two ways to disrupt/disregulate a Human are by withholding what is actually needed, and imposing what is not needed during the finite developmental windows.
Literally, something as ostensibly benign as one or both parents wanting a desired-sex child and feeling disappointed about having the opposite-sex child… most often, effects that person life-long; typically they feel some degree of inferiority on some level of their being; even if they never were told “you’re the wrong sex” in words. Prenates & newborns/infants feel every emotion – they don’t have to be ‘told’. I often think that more than a few of the misguided parents who push for changing their child’s “gender” are themselves babies of parents who wanted the opposite sex child; it’s congruent with the pattern of a person’s own inadequacy being projected & imposed on their child. The rest of them are just those who themselves wanted the opposite sex child… the usurpers prey on the weaknesses of everyone in as many ways as they can find.
The conversation with the young father I referenced above was much longer than just a couple sentences – I Truly believe God inspired me to say whatever he needed to hear, and inspired him to listen to what I was saying. His Spiritual assignment was to break the pattern of his own ‘absent-Father’ legacy… and he did so Brilliantly.
God doesn’t inspire just one person at a time… His inspiration is contagious, so you might be right! I personally could not have done that by myself, but with God everything is possible. “Duty is ours; the results are God’s”.
Thank you, Aubergine for your kind comment – use the words of course, even with those who don’t seem receptive; plant the seeds! Advent seems an especially good time and an especially good analogy, imo.
Blessings on your House.
PS…
I love your name!
I was one of those children who was “the wrong sex,” and it was never a secret. My mother wanted a boy, and when I was born, she wouldn’t even give me a name. My father named me.
I frankly can’t imagine putting my trauma onto one of my own children. I was so happy to have them, I didn’t care what gender they were! But I know it happens. It makes me very sad.
Blessings to you and yours this Christmas season.
I LOVE that you rose above the imprint!
Not everyone is able to – often because it is not a conscious, but a subconscious driver to repeat the imprinted pattern; I agree it’s deeply sad.
I think you were Spiritually assigned to break that pattern, so you were given just what you needed to do it – it’s less likely & much harder to break a pattern we aren’t aware of or that we cannot see.
A big part of Awakening is breaking the bonds of old hurtful/harmful patterns… and we are here now to participate in the Awakening of Humanity, aren’t we?!
I felt/feel the same about my own children as you do – GLORIOUS GIFTS! I broke my ancestral legacy pattern(s) also (alright a couple I’m still working on); wanting and loving and protecting them was instinctive & strong in me – going against the “sound, rational opinions & advice” of a number of onlookers was an imperative & a rewarding accomplishment.
I hope you Love your name too. I had to change my name (later in life) to one I felt comfortable with and actually like. A person’s name is who they tell the world they are, so it matters that one’s name feels congruent with one’s own person.
If parents are disconnected, they don’t listen to the wee one tell them who they are; a name can be out of tune.
I’m very glad you followed your Heart with your children and Loved – accepted – them immediately for who they are. Bravo YOU… your children chose well before they arrived!
Thank You for your wish of Blessings I appreciate that so much –
I wish Blessings also on your House during this Golden time (and forward).
Wiki has a brief summation of these days/dates you might find interesting.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Annunciation
Absolutely great point that at conception the father is and always will be the father- at conception a mother and father are created too. Three in one!
Thank you for that link Charles. How accurate do you think it is, coming from wiki? Regretably, I’m not familiar enough with those referenced writings to discern the accuracy myself.
It’s gratifying to me that you recognize the creation of the (Holy) Family in every pregnancy! The family IS a Sacred triad – because God designed Humans to need that, & He designed that triad to meet those needs, and for all to thrive within it.
I always experienced the preparation for the birth of a child who has *arrived* and who is going to emerge – both for my own and for all I worked with – as a Sacred time, a Golden time, part of the Blessed Event. God gave me Advent all year long for many years and it was a Sweet Mercy.
I agree the coming (& also the going, however that happens) of a child is never inconsequential… women always remember, and though some fathers never know, those who do know remember also, though many pretend not to;
Arrival, discovery, birth, abandonment, and death are profound events to every Human Being.
Likewise, the leaving of a parent is never inconsequential for a wee one – even if that ‘leaving’ is in the form of conditional or non-acceptance on the emotional level… which is a degree of abandonment & non-acceptance; babies & children are highly sensitive to & perceptive of the energetics of all relationships. All Humans *need* acceptance & benevolence from their parents – withholding any amount of that is detrimental in a long-lasting way. Any amount of rejection incites the sympathetic fight-flight-freeze-fawn survival program.
Nature designed that as a temporary state with a reverse mechanism – the parasympathetic response that returns one to the feed-breed-explore homeostasis that Humans are designed /intended to exist long-term/normally in when not in imminent danger.
When there is a constant F-F-F-F state of being, because survival is immediately & intensely threatened by parental apathy and/or hostility, one is literally internally disrupted & disregulated constantly during development – so development occurs in adaptation and incorrectly.
Humans don’t automatically regulate themselves early on – they *learn* how to regulate by experiencing “crisis” and then being soothed by a responsive parent… or, if they aren’t soothed, they don’t learn to regulate themselves adequately – adaptation is automatically the regulator. The 20thc “expert advice” fad of leaving babies alone to cry themselves into exhaustion is one example of usurpation of parental instincts and weaponized; lifelong negative consequences to to Humans’ integrity AND to parent-child relationship integrity en mass.
Just look around, evidence of this abnormal state of being – the inability to self-regulate – is everywhere.
I’ve heard it called “Hustle Culture”, the attitude is “rest/sleep/recuperation is for lazy people”… hustle to survive or else perish. “The hustle & bustle frenzy of (commercialized) Christmas”- instead of theTrue Spirit of Advent – is only one example. That parents don’t get but a few days – some get zero – of maternity leave from their employment is another.
Again, it’s usurpers’ programming en mass by preying on Human’s weaknesses. Layers of programming for social control have been imposed for a very long time from the beginning of life. Drugged birth in ritualistic hospitals became the norm a full century ago. Our Human instincts have been blunted, and our innate responses & adaptations are weaponized against us from Womb to tomb. Removing the Sacred from all aspects of our lives plays an enormous & essential part in their success.
HA! WE don’t have to play along… as soon as we see it, we can break the hypnosis & stop allowing it to dictate.
Advent is the perfect time to look around, notice the pregnant Mothers/Families, and say prayers for their strength of the Holy Bond of FAMILY.
Blessings on your House, Charles.
The wiki post to my knowledge is correct- I would not normally use it but a Catholic website post would seem to be inappropriate on this thread intended to be non-confrontational.
We are on the Gregorian calendar, which took non-Catholic countries centuries to accept. This led to what is known as double-dating. George Washington’s birthday is recorded in the family records as 1731/2. The year used to begin in March, not January. Our Constitution s double dated-in theYear of Our Lord and also of the Declaration, as is Lincoln’s Thanksgiving Day Proclamation.
Charles Carroll was the only Catholic to sign the Declaration and the last Signer to die. Late in life he signed it because he thought it was the best way to ensure the Christian religion would flourish. We have turned a time of rest and reflection into a time of busy and commerce. God bless you and yours.
Thanks for the affirmation. I appreciate the reply to my question.
I think the individual aka ‘troll’ who was being progressively confrontational about the delineation of denominational verbiage has been ousted – nobody else has been at all perturbed by the variety in perspectives on the celebration or interpretations of Advent, neither here nor on the original thread.
One hallmark of an Alinkky-esque/ marxist-agitator is their incessant & hair-splitting-insistence on “political-correctness” ad nauseum. It was not tolerated long after the fulfilled request to create a different Advent thread did not suffice to quell the individual’s personal discord. Anyway your kindly respectful contribution is much appreciated.
*Very interesting* history re: Charles Carroll – his forward-thinking intention to help Christianity flourish is an excellent note to remember.
Happy Advent Sir – enjoy your preparations – and may God’s Blessings be abundant on your House also.
In Jesus’ birth, God came down to earth for us. In What Child Is This? we see how Jesus, foretold by the prophets and confirmed by God as His own Beloved Son, is the Father’s ancient promise fulfilled. Born to save us from our sins, this lowly Child triumphed over sin and death to become our Savior.
I am grateful to come here where we are welcome in Christ!
I’m a Catholic but for the record, I’m totally opposed to burning Protestants at the stake.
To me a “Christian” is simply someone who professes Christ, and yes, I know that theologically speaking that covers quite a lot of ground, but in my experience Christians of all sorts have more in common than not. As far as salvation goes, I figure that’s ultimately up to God, who I believe to be just and merciful, so I’ll leave that question in His capable hands.
In my Catholic high school they had a class called “Religions of the World” where origins, philosophy, beliefs, punishment, history, changes, and basic organizational structure of religion was taught. Coming from a Catholic grade school generally with nuns in habits as teachers, I found this totally confusing. How can many or all religions claim to be the “right” and only one that can save us? My high school taught me to respect all the different religions and make a choice when we were old enough to be well informed.
Being a skeptic about the catholic teachings because of a personal experience, I made my choice. My experience was on a Friday when I was about 10 or 11 years old and an altar boy. The Catholic teaching at the time was that you attend Mass every day, memorize the catechism, and don’t eat meat on Fridays, or else. Well, somehow I ended up with a bologna sandwich for lunch and hunger won out. I ate that meat and never got struck by lightning nor had the devil approach me.
My choice was that after 12 years of Catholic indoctrination I had enough Catholicism to last my whole life.
My home town of St Anne IL was founded in 1851 by Charles Chiniquy, a French-Canadian Catholic priest and friend of the 16th U.S. President, Abraham Lincoln, who was excommunicated by the Catholic Church in 1856. He later converted to Protestant Christianity, becoming a Presbyterian Evangelical minister and a well-known temperance activist in Canada and the United States.
Anyway, I grew up in this town with Presbyterian and Catholic churches of which both were spectacular buildings but eventually of no interest to me due to a progressive Catholic high school that taught “all religions are the same, just different”. After that high school eye opening, I don’t subscribe to any religion but respect everyone’s decision on what they think is best for them and wish that all religions would become tolerant of all other religions.
As far as I know, there is only ONE religion that mandates that those born into it, or those that once having embraced it reject it must be put to death.
Same one, also I think uniquely formally sanctions enslavement of non believers….
just sayin,…I bet that wasn’t taught in that “religions of the World” class?
Many of them are being saved through dreams and visions by Christ The Lord, under penalty of death, like you speak of duthchman, how totally amazing is The Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ born of a virgin.
sorry, dutchman… can’t spell! ; ) I don’t want your wrath!!! ha ha ha
We all speak Typo here!
heather,
Of coarse I wouldnt put any rath on yu for spelling,..lol.
One of these is not like the others.
Even Sesame Street got that bit right.
That one is the only faith that clearly does not seek to elevate the souls of its adherents, in fact, it degrades them.
Granting it any equivocation or accommodation is simply suicidal.
Compare and contrast is one aspect of critical thinking, and it doesn’t have to be taught,…its innate, and a gift.
Indeed.
While not needing to be taught, it surely does one good to practice it!
OMG, the Trump admin vs the Obiden one, what an extreme compare/contrast!
Sorry, no politics just talking compare/contrast,..
Indeed, a lesson many are learning the hard way even if they are chewing their own tongues at the bitterness of the revelation.
Jesus is not a religion, and He Loves You! You are a magnificent creation of His! God Bless you and help you to believe in Him!
I read Charles Chiniquy’s book when in my 20’s. He had the heart religion.
When I used to go to Mass at the Catholic church in the area where I lived, I also found out about the
Rosary being said there – in the afternoons and also early in the morning, I think it was after Mass – you could go to Mass at 6 am and stick around for the rosary and have all that done and on the road to work by ten to 7, I think! With time left to swing by McDonald’s for a cup of coffee to go!
The reason I bring it up here is that the “rosary lady” that I used to know – who did it in the afternoons -commented that someone who was an Episcopalian told her that the rosary is also prayed by Episcopalians/Anglicans – that it was popular amongst them hundreds of years ago – see, that’s another thing I need to look up – well, I mention it here because really why wouldn’t the rosary be a good thing to know whatever your denomination as a Christian might be, as it is basically the Gospel laid out in all the mysteries –
and I know that people who are inclined to be “anti-Catholic” think it is wrong to go to Mary although I don’t know why not – she was a human, like us, who suffered the most horrible loss and understands our human hearts – I just think it is pretty good to be able to go to Mary – and the saints, too – and to find out about saints like Padre Pio who prayed the rosary constantly, throughout the day – and also of course our Guardian Angels –
I don’t know who that person was who told my “rosary lady” that not only Catholics pray the rosary, but I think it’s something to consider!
Hopefully, this is taken in the spirit in which it is offered. I’m not sure to whom this quote is referring, but as a lifelong Catholic, I can attest that Catholics also hear the voice of God directly. Maybe you are confused by the concept of intercessory prayer which is no different than asking another person to pray for you or someone else. In fact, all Christians pray to Jesus who intercedes for us with God. Any time you pray for somebody, you are praying an intercessory prayer. As Catholics, however, we are not taught that we need an intercessor to talk to or hear the voice of God; I’m not sure where that is coming from.
Amen! I’m Catholic precisely BECAUSE of my personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Also want to mention that it’s good to see Christians of all kinds celebrating Advent! 🙂
Kudos and commendations, Managerie on taking this very reasonable approach.
Extremely magnanimous given the insults she endured by Silverbeard the Troll.
Indeed, generous almost to a fault.
That character has already been banned dozens of times, while perhaps difficult to imagine, his profanation of today’s invitation to the holy is far from his worst offenses here.
I don’t detect an INFLUENCER, at least not on this thread,..hence beyond Maquis’s responce I go by the tried and true “stop feeding them” adage.
Which is the only reason I decided to call it out whist awaiting the inevitable ban hammer, “liking” an overtly contentious post is a form of feeding, one that suggests some are being subtly led astray . . .
I understand my friend..
carry on ,..
🖖
I love praying people. I listen to the Conservative Park Avenue Jewish Synagogue on
Sabbath Fridays and on Sunday, the nuns at the monastery of Regina Laudes in CT.
These worshipers fascinate me. In addition I worship at my own SDA church.
I love to see how devoted and loving these worshipers are.
We are required by the gospel to go into the world and serve and let our light shine. We
are not to proselytize or judge any others. If we judge, our light shall be dimmed.
When we shine that light, Almighty God will do the rest with whomever he chooses.
Sundance, I appreciate your site, I’ve read it for years. Your pursuit of truth in the political and social world is admirable. But if you exercise so much discernment in those endeavors, why are you so simple concerning truth about God and what the scriptures say about how he wants to be loved and worshiped??
“Simple”? WTH
This is, yet again, a very common pattern of strife-seekers.
And very easy to see, once you are attuned for what to look for.
If you appreciate the site so much, it’s strange how you’re here defying Menagerie and disrespecting the House.
Knowing what a “wristburn” is, I find it totally appropriate that you use it for a handle.
I will share a memory of 1987….Christmas….my little family went to the Midnight service at my friend’s Methodist church….am a cradle Catholic…
I “donated” my 5-6 week old infant baby boy…to play the role of that baby born of humble means, in a stable…for the service’s ‘living Nativity’….
My eyes leak when I think back on that memory of long ago….
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.” John13:34.
Live is too short to be divisive…God IS love!
Since we are discussing Advent, on reflection, I think I just saw, and would recommend, an Advent movie that was released today.
It isn’t advertised like that, exactly, but it is all about waiting patiently for God to act in a dark, broken world ruled by the Prince of the Air.
The Shift is the name of the movie.
Neal McDonough is amazing as Lucifer. He was always an excellent actor. He nails this role beyond anything I’ve ever seen him do.
It is sort of Book of Job plus multiverse, but don’t let that stop you. There’s a lot of deep discussion of how and why to wait on God, even when it seems like God is very far away and might not be coming back.
Alistair Begg is offering a liturgical advent devotional which includes protestant hymns and catechisms. It’s written by Jonathan Gibson “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel”
Thank you, Menagerie.
I always read your posts, I look forward to reading the comments on today’s post.
When God reveals something to YOU through another person, always give thanks to the God Almighty for loving you so much to answer YOUR prayer. Then that PEACE that is promised will be there.
Menagerie, you are a saint!
Thank you again Menagerie for the willing spirit to entertain dialog! That said Jesus said division will come, even to families, over Him. It’s very hard for me to except His words, but I believe Him and He is THE LIGHT OF the world. He is the Alpha and Omega The beginning and the last. God Bless you and Sundance and all the admin, thank you for being here and for providing a place for all of us! Merry Christmas!!!!
https://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/10.htm
I personally think that “God” is much too big for any “theological differences.” When the time comes when we finally see Him face-to-face, we will instantly realize that “we never had the faintest clue.” And – that He always knew that. “My thoughts are not your thoughts, and My ways are not your ways.”
Likewise, Jesus told us that “you cannot comprehend the Father. That’s why you have Me.”
It is He who created a pathway to Himself that we never even would have known anything about. And, it is He who approaches every one of us as individuals whom He made. There is no “right way” and no “wrong way.” There is only: God.
There most certainly is a right way, and not in a panentheisic way:
John 14:1-11
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
“Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
“Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
“Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.””
JDV: “We are actually in complete agreement.”
The one thing that I would speak against – if anything – is the animosity which often appears between people who disagree with other people about: “what is The Truth™?” To me, the animosity is far more significant, as is told by the full telling of “The Blind Men and the Elephant.”
In other words: There is no “™” symbol here. The real problem is that the person whom you are “against” is your brother. So, maybe the best thing to do is to simply give up the fight, for the sake of your brother. Perhaps much better than “who wins” is the idea that “you do not fight.” Because “no one wins” if you do.
I believe that Paul spoke very specifically about this idea, when he discussed “food sacrificed to idols.” Which very obviously was a “black-versus-white point” for early Christians. His to-me brilliant statement focused directly on … “black versus white.” Not “idols.”
The latter half of 1 Corinthians 8:1 … “those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know.” To me, that half-sentence – admittedly excluding the rest of the section – itself contains a very profound point. (Which I specifically intend to isolate.)
I make this comment – specifically – “not to confront you, nor anyone.” I do not claim to be “correct.”
Menagerie,
When someone bends there knee to someone other than G __D. I have been here 5 years and your seasonal posts have never been a problem, why is there one now. Sundance posts the Our Father with the non Catholic ending on it, I would never say anything in a 1000 years about that, like in church they tack it on ,but separated, in mass. I say amen at the end of The Our Father and do not say the rest. Use your own judgement.
This is a time to prepare for the CHRISTmas season no matter what denomination we come from. If Jesus Christ is not your Savior and Lord, it won’t matter what church you go to. The Church/Temple is the people who are saved. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the Temple.
We celebrate His birth at this time of year no matter what season He was actually born. I think Jesus can handle our historical discrepancies, and our religious practice idiosyncrasies, as we come together in a true Spirit of worship.
Merry CHRISTmas Everyone!
Believing in that Perfect Sacrifice, that precious Blood that was shed, knowing Christ as Saviour and Lord is our only hope for a blessed eternity. Appreciate your comments 🙂
The Christian experience is not based on our denomination. It is a condition of the heart. We are commanded to love one another.
Thus is God’s law written on our hearts.
I just want to say that, even though I’m non-religious, I admire this approach to offering opportunities for believers to share their perspectives and joys (…and challenges, and lapses, and whatever else…)
Back in the day we could talk amongst our peers and have a more interested and supportive response even if we disagreed – I miss those days.
I hope all you Good Christians out there have a very Merry Christmas!
In my Protestant church, we have a brief advent section of the service and light a candle each of the 4 weeks of Advent. The candles are arranged in a wreath, with 3 purple candles and one pink candle around the outside of the wreath, and one white candle in the center.
The first (purple) candle is for Hope and for the Advent part of the service, we read scriptures showing the hope for the Messiah – Isaiah’s passage comes to mind foretelling the coming.
The second (purple) candle is the candle of Peace for the second Sunday of Advent. The promise of peace in our hearts and lives through a life in Christ, no matter what else is going on in the world. The angels proclamation to the shepherds of peace on earth, goodwill to man.
The third Sunday of Advent lights the (purple) candle of Joy. The joy that met Christ’s birth from the shepherds, the 3 kings, and the joy we can feel in coming to know Christ the redeemer.
The fourth candle is pink and it stands for Love. Love follows from Hope, Peace, and Joy. It stands for the love of God that sent his son into the world to redeem us from sin. The love we share with others.
On Christmas Eve service, we light the 5th candle which is white and it is placed in the center of the wreath. This is the Christ candle and it stands for the light of Christ that is in every Christian’s heart, the light that Christ brought to the world. Often during this service, church members hold candles that are lit from the Christ candle and passed down the pews from one person to another until the whole church is lit.
Menagerie, thank you for your time and your post.I’m always uplifted reading the comments and fellowship. To lighten the mood I would like to add something I read years ago…” A lady asked how she could become a Baptist. She was told to believe in Jesus and own a 9×12 casserole dish.” May God’s love be in our hearts at this time as we celebrate our saviors birth.🙌
Thank you for your posts Menagerie…ALWAYS!
When one commenter on a very small twig of the treehouse doesn’t like something, no need to amend or explain anything. You’ve always done a magnificent job with your posts and they are greatly appreciated.
When one jacka__ doesn’t like it, no need to change or add anything. (But thank you for your herculean efforts!)
I am not Catholic and find it sad that this post needed to be made as I take the messages as they were intended, with a spirit of generosity. I have never, ever, felt excluded here.
Nor I.
I love our Treeper Family!
It’s that easy. It’s not about “catholic” or “protestant” or whatever; it is about JESUS CHRIST! Share HIM with your family, friends, and the world!!!
There seems to be some good discussion on this thread. Thanks to Managerie for this opportunity to give my thoughts.
The first “Christmas” was a fulfillment of God’s promise to our first parents, Adam and Eve, in the Garden.
After Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the fruit of the tree that our Creator God told Adam not to eat thereof, and she gave to Adam who was with her, to eat thereof, then their eyes were opened and by their disobedience, God’s judgement entered our world and upon every living person. And death.
But God had a plan from before the foundation of the world was created (Eph 1:4), and this is what He, God, did; “The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.” Genesis 3:21
Now this thread is not put here by Menagerie to discuss our doctrinal disagreements. There is much doctrine coming from this all-important chapter in an all-important book, Genesis. But for now, I’m merely laying out the frame-work of the need for Messiah to come into our world. The true meaning of Christmas. These are issues that every Bible from every persuasion, records. This is my persuasion. I’ll let the reader determine for themselves which denomination is right.
Let’s revisit Gen. 3:21. “The LORD God made garments…” Where did these garments come from? They had to have come from a slain animal of unknown kind. It is not mentioned. I will not speculate. But it’s clear from this text and elsewhere, that a death occurred, and innocent blood was shed. By the hand of God.
Moving to the New Testament, Apostle Paul through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote, “through one man’s sin, sin entered the world, and through sin, death; and as a result, death passed on to all…” Romans 5:12-13
The first death in this new world was at the hands of the Creator Himself. Note: Paul was speaking metaphorically here. He is not saying that God has hands like us. I’ll leave it at that for now, tragic enough as it was.
OK, but the loving God that our Creator is, had mercy on the man and his wife. He did not execute the man as He said. “The LORD God said to the man, ‘for the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.’ ” But death did occur. Let that sink in; it was a death by substitute. The shed blood of innocent life, covered the man’s sin. Remember the covering God used to cover Adam’s and Eve’s nakedness? The skin of the animal. Provided by our loving God.
Let’s continue reading on a sidenote, a very important note that many get confused. Gen. 3:15, God, speaking to the serpent said, “I will put enmity between your seed and the seed of the woman.”
We learned in Freshman Biology that a woman does not have a seed, the woman has an egg. But the verse says that “the seed of the woman will crush the head of the seed of the serpent.” Gen.3:15 In other words, the offspring of the woman will crush the head of the serpent’s offspring. I have read by some posting on this site that the woman will crush the head of the serpent. Read the plain text. It’s in every Bible.
Now with that said, where does this offspring come in? That’s the GOOD NEWS!
As the progeny multiplied, every woman prayed that she would give birth to the One who God would send to be that Champion who would crush the progeny of the serpent. And on that chilly star-filled night, so long ago, on a hillside village, so far away, our Creator God answered their prayer.
“For unto us, a child is born,
unto us a Son is given;”
“And the governments of the world
shall be upon His shoulders.” Isaiah 9:6-7
And the angels spoke to the shepherds and said, His name shall be called Emmanuel, God is with us.“And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy (Note: Step in Charlie Brown in that famous Christmas Special. But I digress. Just reminiscing of the tears of joy I discovered I had many years ago) for all the people. Today in the town of David (Bethlehem), a Saviour has been born to you. He is the Messiah, the Lord. Suddenly a great company of the heavenly hosts appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest Heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom His favor rests.” Luke 2:8-14
This was the first Christmas. The incarnation of God our Saviour and Lord, Jesus, the Christ. But this is not yet the rest of the story. He did not come to be a conquering king, though He did indeed conquer, and He was a King.
“He came unto His own, but His own received Him not. But those who did receive Him, He gave them the right to become the children of God, to those who believe in His name. Those who were born; [born] not by blood; nor [born] by the will of the flesh, nor [born] by the will of any man, but [born] by God.”John 1:12-13 Those who say they have free will? That does not align with the word of God. Sorry. Born by God; supernatural work.
Let he who has ears to hear, hear what the word says; and Jesus said to Nicodemus, “you must be born again.” John 3:3. Born from above. A super-natural birth. Conceived in Heaven and from before time began. Ephesians 1:4
As Saviour, Jesus would live the perfect life that Adam could not, and then shed His innocent blood as a propitiation for our sins, that Adam had not. And thus, the final covering of our sins, clothed by His perfect righteousness. Amen!
All who believe in this message of His perfect life, death, and resurrection, for the forgiveness of our sins, will be saved. John 3:16. All who reject it, will die in their sins. John 3:18.
There it is folks. It’s about as easy as I can say it. Now those churches who teach this, join. If they teach another way to find acceptance in Heaven, leave. You say you have “free will?” Well then, “choose you this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15
Merry Christmas.
A modern song timelessly praising Jesus
Light Of The World Chords PDF (Lauren Daigle) – PraiseCharts
~Thank you, Menagerie.
I so appreciate and look forward to all that you write and provide here.
God bless you, lady ❣
✝
I am not Catholic but I pray to Saint Anthony often, he is quite the helper, especially since I have gotten old.
Years back I had some friends that desperately needed to sell their house and they were not having any luck at all. It was getting depressing. I went on a mission to find an affordable St. Joseph to bury in the yard. I found one, took it to them, explained, and we buried the statue. They thought I was nuts until late afternoon the next day a buyer came along w/a sweet deal.
I tend to be eclectic in my faith.
Likewise ….had a friend whose house had been on the market for months. One week after burying the Saint Anthony statue….boom….the house sold for the price she was asking.
Join a Bible study group of mixed denominations… I found it helpful in more ways than I can count or note in this forum
.
I have plenty to say about apologetics……
But since you said not to, I won’t…..
Hence, I’ve observed that many protestants celebrate Advent, and that the Advent Wreath was actually a protestant tradition adopted by many Christian traditions.
Whatever we do, we must do all things in Christ! God bless all of you this season!
Amen
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalm 133:1
David talks about the brethren, he is talking about the believers. All believers need to learn to dwell together in unity, learning to get along and worship and serve God together, letting go of petty differences.
Psalm 133 New King James Version
Blessed Unity of the People of God
A Song of Ascents Of David
1Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brethren to dwell together in unity! 2It is like the precious oil upon the head, Running down on the beard, The beard of Aaron, Running down on the edge of his garments 3It is like the dew of Hermon, Descending upon the mountains of Zion; For there the Lord commanded the blessing— Life forevermore.
To drive this home
*In Ephesians, Paul first mentions the redemption through “the blood of Christ” in 1:7. Regarding the context of Romans 3:22-23, when Paul says “there is no distinction” and “all have sinned,” he is referring specifically to both Jews and Gentiles (see chapters 1–2 of the letter; cf. Rom. 10:12).