UPDATE: I’m sticking this to the top of the page for a little while, because there is excellent feedback in the comments section. Awesome job with some granular detail.
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) released the preliminary findings from its investigation of the East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment. (video below)
There were three locomotives and 149 rail cars. Before the train derailed Feb. 3, the crew received a warning telling them to immediately slow and stop the train to conduct an inspection. It was during the deceleration that a railcar carrying plastic pellets had a wheel bearing failure, according to NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy. [Bullet Point Video, WATCH]
Thirty-eight cars derailed and fire damaged an additional 12 cars. Five tanker cars carry 115,580 gallons of vinyl chloride were part of the group that derailed. Vinyl Chloride is a flammable and toxic gas used to make PVC pipe. The initial fire was the result of the hot axle and the plastic pellets in the railcar. According to Mrs. Homendy, there was no evidence the three-person train crew did anything wrong. She said the NTSB, so far, hasn’t identified any operational issues with the defect detectors or railroad tracks.
Full Press Conference Video Below:
.
Every single time you hear someone from the administration or the enemedia use the phrase “no evidence” you can translate that to “we are hiding what we know so we can tell you there’s NO EVIDENCE”. You see this everywhere. It was used by the CDC and FDA to dismiss vaxx adverse event concerns. It’s used to dismiss concerns of where the money has gone for the over $100 billion we’ve donated to Ukraine.
Once you see the pattern you can’t unsee it. No evidence means they know but won’t release any information so they can tell you there’s NO EVIDENCE. They’re counting on the fact that it takes 2 years and court action through freedom of information requests to get the actual evidence, and then it’s never mentioned by the enemedia.
Great summary! That needed to be said as crisply as you said it. As Donald Rumsfeld was wont to say in his day: ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE.
I think it was “we don’t know what we don’t know”.
“There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns …”
TBH, I believe nothing any federal government agency spokesperson tells me anymore, regardless of the subject. All the covid and election lies made damn sure of that. It’s as if their goal was to destroy all trust in government by people with fully functioning brains.
We are being intentionally pushed into a new dark age. No trust in anything brings chaos.
And Rumsfeld was a Neocon idiot.
The “absence of evidence” claim can be used by those in power to do whatever they like.
Rumsfeld and Schiff both hid behind security classification to make claims that were most likely untrue in order to push an agenda.
Environmental scientists en route to Ohio all killed in plane crash…. Coincidence much?
https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=217975
Sorry they were on their way to the Bedford, OH a metal plant fire… but, still..
70 miles from East Palestine
Meh, that’s just a hop, skip, and a jump; same difference. What difference does it matter at this point anyways?
But the team had recently been in E. Palestine correct?
Going to Bedford doesn’t negate the fact they had already given the safe to drink water report in favor of Norfolk Southern.
The five were on their way to the plant fire — but the company they work for, CTEH, is also doing work at the East Palestine derailment site.
https://www.newsweek.com/little-rock-plane-crash-ohiowhat-we-do-know-what-we-dont-1783364
Their plane took off from The Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport. Really. No fiction writer could top the news these days.
“…billionaire financier friend..”
do you mean Thomas Lee?
https://nypost.com/2023/02/23/billionaire-financier-thomas-h-lee-found-dead-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-in-nyc-office-sources/
Yup, I noticed that, too. Two fresh kills in a week.
This corp cteh had already tested water in East Palestine OH and said it was safe to drink. I do not know if they were testing the air quality. I do know there are reports they are a company that also reports what the check writer wants to them find…so again, they it is again we don’t know what we don’t know, because of absence of evidence to the contrary. Norfolk Southern hired this company to check the water quality. In my opinion, they were going to EPOH to be on site when pete showed up. There were terrible storms and high wind in AR that evening. I believe there are some very criminal issues going on here. And people are risk…not so much because of the derailment, but because of the actions after the derailment.
The East Palestine water supply is from five wells not from surface water. Contamination of those wells would not likely occur for some time, if at all. A “safe to drink” message may be accurate. Journalists should report answers to questions about ongoing testing, location of wells, likelihood of future contamination of the aquifer from which the wells draw.
They had just taken off from the Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport in Arkansas. They should have known better.
It depends on what the definition of “evidence” is. s/
“No EVIDENCE of any election irregularities.”
Then, “Well, no evidence of any election irregularities, THAT WOULD EFFECT THE OUTCOME.”
And all the while, a MASSIVE Disinfo, P.R. Campaign, “most secure in history”.
Its ironic; the focus on having one, ‘united’ message, with no deviation, and yet that becomes an obvious”tell” for us.
And is it that they “cover up” the evidence, or simply don’t look for it to begin with?
The same “evidence” they use for our most safe and secure fraudulent elections.
No evidence of President Trump and Russia collusion.
-😂BUT
No evidence
that there was
no collusion.🤪
————————//
Since the liars always say the opposite of what is true
and /or
accuse good people
of what the liars are guilty of (if they don’t suicide the good people)
Perhaps Russia is really working with the ‘Trumps’of the world
—to save the world.
🙏🏻
Who are the terrorists now??
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2023/02/no_author/an-act-of-terror-against-the-american-people/
Then they follow up by denying FOIA requests, saying “We can’t release (evidence of our crimes) because it is under pending investigations.” Then after dropping charges against their establishment buddies they say, “That’s old news. LOOK! There’s a balloon!!”
…and with a similar motivation (self preservation, image, reputation),
they can say that they have evidence (of collusion by someone with someone)
but
its all (unsaid) pretend – for years.
[ and the evidence is hidden because,
…drum roll…
‘its under investigation’ but it leaks, floats around the rumor mills, media hype etc. ]
I have worked many failure investigations. There is always evidence, but often there is nothing that can be used as “evidence” of the type in which a cause of failure can be definitively determined. Fire has a way of doing that. And that is what they may mean by “no evidence.” They obviously have lots of evidence. What they do not have is evidence of the specific first cause or evidence of the cascade of catastrophic failures.
We used to analyze bearing failures and send them out for analysis. In almost every case the determination was that there was a lubrication failure. Of course there was. There is no lube that will withstand those temps but it was well on the way to failure long before the lube failed. The lube was the last thing that failed.
The only way to exactly analyze a catastrophic mechanical failure is to get very lucky and stop the progression before the high temperatures happen. When they ignited the chemical in that “controlled” burn, they certainly obliterated much of the possible evidence. But not all of it. It will take a lot of time and analysis to figure out what happened before the fire and what happened because of the fire.
OK … I will say it, instead of dancing around the conclusion … again.
This was pre-planned, premeditated sabotage. The real objective was to put this wreck as close to the Ohio River as possible and it prematurely activated.
The route of this train would have had it transiting on tracks just a few feet from the banks of the Ohio River.
What she’s really saying, what difference does it really make. The way the USG is heading fossil fuels won’t be needed so we won’t need fuels, plastics, asphalt, or other products that are derivatives of fossil fuels.
THAT part has me stumped.
Look around you, plastics are EVERYWHERE.
WHAT kind if a World, do they envision, without plastics?
And then I remind myself,…THEY ARE INSANE!
Hence, trying to analyse or understand their thinking, is a futile excercise, THEY ARE INSANE.
Health care would be crippled.
What are all the optic fibers, cords, etc encased in?
Health “Care” is already crippled by bureaucratic capture.
Dutchman, they are very SANELY in the process of DESTROYING our civilization. Measured from their evil perspective, their actions are brilliant. But we must destroy THEM, before the destroy US.
dutchman: Yes. Trying to understand that which cannot be understood, at least, not through rational analysis. We are dealing with people who are sociopaths or psychopaths. At best, they are cultists.
There would be no electrical wiring – they are beyond insane.
No electrical wiring for us, you mean.
They want us to be like the squabbling districts in Hunger Games while they enjoy the spoils of the remaining resources.
She is a Trump appointee. Thought she did a good job of sticking to the facts. Sounds like Warren Buffet might owe a small town a lot of money. Maybe if he took care of his railroad cars better, there would be less a problem.
Buffet owns BNSF.
I know Black Rock owns a part of NS, but i do t k ow about Buffet
Vanguard owns a large stake also ….
Black Rock and Vanguard own interest in every major corporation in the world! They are key players of the Cabal.
The 2 largest shareholders are vanguard and black rock .
Imagine that.
Most rail cars are leased, NS does not own the rolling stock. With rail cars being leased, probably, maintenance is up to leasing agency not NS. No liability for NS, a podunk leasing company that leases rail cars is sued into bankruptcy and Feds pay the bill for cleanup. That’s why this report is so early and a work of BS. Just my pondered thoughts
Great point. Thank you.
“More than 300,000 rail car in the U.S. delivered fuel, supplies, and commodities that power American life. That said, it’s easy to understand that when a rail car goes down due to a maintenance issue, it’s a problem. Deliveries are slowed or delayed, costs rise, and the supply chain is affected. Generally, these issues fall directly on a shipper’s shoulders, especially considering the fact that only 20% of those cars are owned by the railroads.” https://www.pnc.com/insights/corporate-institutional/raise-capital/staying-on-track-with-rail-car-maintenance.html
Railroads are obligated to provide railcar inspectors and have them inspect railcars for safe operation.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-II/part-215
who owns the railroads?
the government or private industry?
The govt gathered bankrupt railroads in the northeast and called it Conrail. Conrail was sold to NS and CSX.
freight railroads are a privately owned heavily regulated industry.
I worked for a tug and barge company years ago. Every tug and barge was its own company, so if there were 2 tugs pushing 10 barges you would need to sue 12 companies.
Yes Buffet owns Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) not Norfolk Southern.
I believe Buffet owns mostly if not only oil tanker cars.
And the BNSF.
We watch BNSF rail cars trundle through our Canadian border town from Blaine Washington.
We were told several years back, that Buffet’s company earned in excess of $250.00 profits on each rail car.
Few were more vehement than he was against pipelines.
Cheers!
Leases, many tax benefits to leasing. Warren would be all up in that
“She is a Trump appointee.”
Who better than a TRUMP appointee to put in front of a camera with this “news”!
Also just because she’s a Trump appointee, doesn’t mean she’s good at her job. Many of these people are recommended by the party.
Love & support Trump but never understood the Wray appointment and many of his initial cabinet. Probably SIL Jarod’s recommendation.
Or not many, if any, options b/c of the swamp
What is “the swamp”?
Where is “ the swamp”; is there a headquarter.
Who runs “the swamp”
What is “the swamp’s” goal?
Swampers self-expose themselves; eventually.
Look at just how much stuff -and people- is out in the open now.
Obviously, all of the nitty gritty mechanics of the swamp, and then, ultimately, the head
is what is sought to be taken down in order for the monsters to be slayed.
It seems that Russia is a key player in swamp draining.
Wonder if ze lensky is still alive or is it a man in a mask.
You will find a deep section is all the UNELECTED illegal alphabet agencies and their staff. They are illegal and never authorized for the federal government under their CONTRACT known as the USA Constitution.
Remember that the very reason the Supreme Court ruled police do not have to serve, protect, help, nor aid the USA citizens they rob for their paychecks is BECAUSE that job description is not specifically listed in the Constitution, just like police themselves (or any alphabet agencies) that work for the government and not the constables and peace keepers (reliant upon the local citizens/communities) that were replaced with jackboots.
Thank You!
Too many have no idea what the Constitution or the BoRs say or even means.
And too many deliberately mis-construe or mis-interpret what is said.
My pet peeves are the the misreading of the First and the Second.
And of course a few in the BoR need to go away, 17th, or be rewritten to fix ambiguous language, 14th.
What is “the swamp”?
Where is “ the swamp”; is there a headquarter.
Who runs “the swamp”
A major component is: The Senior Executive Service of the U.S. Gov’t, a product of the Carter Administration.
Those people get entrenched, they hold decision making positions for years, they network amongst themselves, they are unaccountable.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/senior-executive-service/
I don’t like “swamp” anymore because swamps have useful God-created life. I prefer “sewer”.
I understand the frustration and I understand the sentiment, but I’m sick of this generalization that the SES Corp is fundamentally evil.
My father-in-law was an SES who listened to Rush religiously and conducted his government business accordingly.
It’s not the SES per se that is fundamentally flawed.
It is the purge that occured within the SES ranks, just as it occurred in the Flag ranks of DoD.
Patience,
You are asking the right question. GOOD FOR YOU!
The answer is both complex and horrifying. Those who know the answer, know it to varying degrees, as there is MUCH to know, and I doubt anyone here (or even Trump himself) knows the complete answer.
I’m not sure where I stand on the scale of knowledge of the answer, but I can tell you I’ve been looking into it, off and on, for about 30 years now, since I first asked the same question you just asked (albeit in a different way… nobody called it the “swamp” back then).
I’m not going to attempt to give you an answer here (I don’t have time to write a book), but I STRONGLY encourage you to keep asking your question, and it will take you on a journey into deeper and deeper understanding. You will not be happy with what you discover, but we must face this evil before it destroys us all.
God bless you!
VegGOP
VegGOP,
Every day -for some years now- a speech, an article, interview, documentary, social media comment… brings a new nugget that connects to the puzzle.
I think “we “ are getting closer. We must close the loop; as
-time is getting short.
Chris Christie recommended Wray… [spit]
The cabal wouldn’t let him get others approved.
Do you understand that?
Sadly, maddeningly, many people have not
Well, he could have left the top jobs vacant, fired every political appointee in the swamp, and fired every, single US attorney. Then worked out a compromise with the Turtle. But Trump did not fight, even for those like Flynn that he got into office.
Face it. Trump was either terribly naive, or far too eager to be loved by a crowd that was determined to destroy him before he ever took the oath of office.
I think Trump was naive, and also overconfident in his power as president to control his hires.
I, for one, believe he has learned his lesson.
So… what’s the answer?
Maybe hiring temps like Rick Grenell, who act with honor.
Who among us can honestly say that we thought Sessions was a bad pick AT THE TIME?
I still haven’t decided if Sessions was a back-stabbing twit, or just out-maneuvered by a lawfare onslaught that he did not anticipate or fully understand.
I thought he was a great pick. In retrospect, I think Sessions was a bit of both. I think he was outmaneuvered by lawfare bad advice and I think he was more interested in saving his own skin than he was in supporting Trump.
Initial cabinet appointments included a number of RINOs to buy the GOP’s (Mitch’s) cooperation.
Wray is a similar thing, but with the added complication of the “Security Clearance Issue” which is handled by the spook community. Just look at “The Gang of Eight”…
MCCONNELL
Wray was a recommendation from Chris Christie, who Trump now realize can’t be trusted.
McConnell told P. Trump who the Senate would and would not approve, AND kept the Senate in constant session, so P. Trump could make no recess appointments.
McConnell really controlled the nominees…
McConnell ONLY APPROVED those on his list of APPROVED RINOS.
And many are just diversity hires. Women seem to have a corner on that market these days.
True dat… NTSB usually takes months if not years to come out with a report on a major accident. It’s amazing how things get tidied up when Trump gets involved.
Remember, Bolton, Barr and others were also “Trump appointees” who wound up knifing us all in the back.
IF Donald Trump can somehow claw his way back into the White House, he needs to do a MUCH better job of getting his “helpers”.
So was Elaine Coo coo-chow
I guess that’s why she doesn’t look like she fell through the Ugly tree.
They only had THREE CREW MEMBERS on this extremely long train…THREE!!
When your vehicle has bad tires you should only drive in town and not on the highway.
You could have a blowout and loose control and wreak and cause death to you and others.
Better still, replace the tires.
And don’t even put the townsfolk at risk.
The question I take from this video is why was a train with hazardous material following so closely behind another freight train? If the train with the vinyl chloride was showing an overheated axle on one of its hazardous material cars, why wasn’t train stopped and car #29(?) removed from the consist?
I’ve ridden AMTRAK and those trains are always being delayed because they are stopped at a rail siding to allow freight trains to pass. Why wasn’t this train placed on a siding?
I read that the crew had received the warning indication about the overheating axle/brake/whatever and they were in the process of slowing the train down to inspect the problem. Apparently the axle broke before they could bring the train to a complete stop and the hot metal is what caused plastic pellets (cargo in one of the cars) to catch fire. That fire was the reason/excuse for a controlled burn to avoid an out of control explosion of the VC in the other tanker cars. That all seems logical except for the need to burn the toxic chemical versus cooling down the tankers with water. If the axle was broken and/or other cars had derailed by then, slowing moving the tankers outside of town would NOT have been an option because the train couldn’t move at that point.
This COULD just be poor maintenance and bad luck. But with all we now know about government corruption and lack of transparency it’s easy to believe in conspiracies. Somebody sure wanted to clean up the site and sweep this one under the rug quickly, though. I think it’s just incompetence and greed, not some plot to destroy Ohio and everything downstream of the river. If they really hated us THAT much why not have an “accident” at a military base where nukes are stored in this part of the Country?
Conspiracies? Coincidences? Who knows. So much doesn’t add up.
Odd concerns:
After 17 years with no updates, the levels for vinyl chloride exposure are dramatically increased days before this event…? Why?The odd “foretelling” of the train wreck and chemical release in Ohio months earlier by the White Noise film…? Extremely odd.The roll out of the “health monitoring program” in East Palestine shortly before the wreck…? So many oddities.
Logically I think; if this were planned in advance, how could they get to happen right here?
The flaming axle throws that off because you think “if this were a “normal” failure, it could happen anywhere along that line”.
However, with all the other oddities out there, you start to think crazy thoughts and consider that just maybe the flaming axle is a pre-planned decoy and the tracks were purposely sabotaged exactly where they wanted this accident to happen.
But, “No evidence”. I must be taking crazy pills.
TY for that excellent, I thought, summary.
The too-quick rebuild of the tracks would have been an opportunity to gather up and hide a de-railing device that might have been pre-planted by a saboteur.
But someone would be criminal to do so. So I’m sure that did not happen. /s
And there will be evidence that it is there.
No evidence?
I say no coincidences…full stop.
They are capable of anything. Starting wars is their specialty, so why not a train “accident”?
Sad that this is our America now.
You make great points. This could have been a collection of several bad things happening at once. The contents of the affected car, the position of the car in train, location of the track etc. I have seen some scientific publications stating that burning PV chloride is preferable to letting it evaporate or explode in the air. IE: lesser of 2 evils. Also I would point out that aerial views of the site show overturned coal cars with the coal burning. This would produce very black smoke. But we are left to come to our own conclusions because there is no news media and our govt. lies to us so much. Whatever, it is unfortunate that these good citizens have to suffer this disaster.
“This COULD just be poor maintenance and bad luck. But…”
Or not. Here’s something I caught at the time, but searched on-line for months afterwards and never found anyone else raising my suspicions:
2008 Channel Tunnel fire
The fire was reported on 11 September 2008, at approximately 13:57 UTC.
September 11, 2001 attacks.
The first hit the North Tower at 08:46 Eastern Time (12:46 UTC).
I’ve actually been in Norfolk Southern’s Atlanta Headquarters massive system control center (working on their telecom system). All of the rail networks are constantly monitoring “Hot Box Detector Sensors”which detects the hot bearing heat signatures, which then triggers alarms and commands to the train’s engineers to take action. All actions are contingent upon location, speed and access to sidings, etc.. A lot goes into stopping a barreling freight train… Remember the movie: “Unstoppable “? Like stopping an aircraft carrier. Not saying there are not shenanigans going on here… but there are some complexities that go with even the mundane running of a railroad… just sayin’
Yes, but would it be easier to stop a shorter train. It’s quicker to stop a destroyer than an aircraft carrier. I’ve heard sooo many different numbers about how long the train was. 147 cars. Geez.
Yes, I have head that, but not how many were unloaded. Unlike trucks that often get loads in two directions, that is more rare with rail cars.
I still have seen no answer to the fact that a video of a bearing fire occurring 42 minutes BEFORE the derailment didn’t trigger a warning to stop the train. If it takes 10 miles to stop the train at 47 mph, there should have been plenty of time, as a fire should trigger any hot box detector. So…what happened??
Passenger trains used to have the right of way. Freight trains had to wait for them to pass. Passenger trains don’t matter anymore. RR’s washed their hands of them in the 70’s.
Amtrak no longer owns the tracks. Basically the rail lines were nationalized in 1970. This was done to “save” the passenger trains, but it severely decreased customer experience and service. Now Amtrak leases their routes, and has the lowest priority.
Which once again goes to prove government only makes things worse, especially when they take over like the trains/railways and pharmaceuticals (vaccines and the indemnity of Big Pharms is supposed to have the fed test everything, to date they have tested 0 (ZERO/NONE/nothing) in the decades since they took charge for their indemnity of Pharms, so they all need to be removed and all indemnities removed as well as they are illegal by both State and Federal Constitutions.
Sometimes it takes awhile to find a parking place.
Identify that you want, or need a parking place, that can take awhile. Meanwhile, you are moving in the car, van, truck, trainThen, find the parking space (it may not be where you want, or need it)Sometimes, people park along side of a road. not fun. (it may, or may not have shoulders, and there is other traffic )Some drivers tear up a rubber tire, trying to get to the tire repair shop. (and do not stop to change the tire alongside the side of the road)
Railways are different than roadways.
“No Evidence” by petit bureaucrat means, “No Evidence that we are willing to examine and reveal to you, little people.” Government and big business have formed and alliance against us.
Hmmm … a government and big business alliance … where have I heard that before …
I don’t know why but I’m suddenly thinking Italian sounds good for dinner tonight. Maybe a recipe from the 1930’s …
From the 1920s … I think it begins with the letter “f”.
Message is… We ALREADY blamed this on Trump.!!! That is all you need to know. Move on.
Joy Behar and the other lipstick pigs on The View already did that.
What vile harpies.
In my opinion, there has not been enough time for a complete evaluation.
My feeling too! Usually, with that level of forensic data, it would ordinarily take a commission of investigators between 6mos and 2 years to complete in a finished one- thousand-page report.
Kinda like rolling out a brand new vaccine type without customary analysis and testing. Different government agency; similar MO.
It’s a preliminary report. You know, just the thing to set the narrative.
Agreed.
Just another example of:
“… the perp yelling kalua snackbar …”
LOL !!
That is the best of breed, I’m gonna appropriate that, if that’s okay!
Wow. Love the generalized name-calling. (Perhaps it’s projection?…that happens sometimes)
I had to pick up some household items at Walmart this morning. Spoke to several individuals. Exchanged some smiles and shared some laughs. None of the people I encountered were smelly. And I’m not either.
But thanks for sharing your perspective of your own community.
Sarcasm, my friend, which you will see wielded often on this message board by many who are much sharper at it than I.
A bot, perhaps?
That was the description famously used by RussiaGate/FBI stooge, Peter Strzok in an email to his mistress, Lisa Page after visiting rural, southern Virginia.
I’ll assume that I am not missing sarcasm on your part and explain that I was speaking as I know they view us, as the CDC/NIH talked down to all of us about the jabs.
As I wrote on an earlier thread, I grew up close enough to East Palestine to have been ejected from a high school football game on their home field a long, long time ago.
We now live about 40 miles east of the open burn.
AND Adam Kinzinger referred to conservatives as ‘arm farters.’
Sharon,
I am a Walmart customer too and ordinarily I would be as irritated as you at such disrespect, but I read Emmanuel’s comment differently. I read the Walmart comment as a reference to the snarky email comment between the disgusting FBI agent Peter Strzok and his lover Lisa Page about smelly Walmart customers and as a way to make the point that the “elites” and our “government” could care less about the welfare of hard working citizens. Taking the time to test “a new gene therapy” vaccine for safety or the time to investigate a serious environmental disaster, or a possible terrorist attack is apparently not something we should expect from a Federal government that hates and disrespects us.
Also please do not read this in any way as disrespectful of your feelings and comment, just a different interpretation.
OTOH, we’ve had five years to evaluate the 2020 elections, and we are still waiting.
2016 elections. Next time I’ll use all my fingers to count. Sorry.
Not just waiting. Genuine work is going on behind the scenes, but you don’t think the DS wants ANY truth, about elections, viruses, vaccines, or, “accidents” to see the Light of day, do you?
Other than Sidney Powell, Mike Lindell, and three or four state / county legislatures, not much is going on. Meanwhile every single day the Biden Regime and its DEI claque of idiot hires pushes us deeper into potentially irreversible conflict.
Sadly a good point
Two things is like to know is 1) why weren’t the vinyl chloride tanks cooled with co2 or N to reduce internal pressures and 2) why didn’t they just polymerize the monomer VC on the spot, rendering it inert ?
I heard that there were pellets (used to make vinyl /siding) that were also burned.
Because Mike, the quickest solution was chosen and recommended to the Governors. Quickest solution chosen by the IC who relies on the experts in the field for hazmat response. Who provides the experts: government agencies provide people with high level knowledge of testing and chemical comp. understanding. The railroad will provide accident response experts. But guess who you think provides the experts with the most knowledge on VC? As per DOT hazmat rules and the Emergency Response required- the company who manufactures the VC (not saying the rail road or the government agencies won’t have someone with that specific expertise, just stating generalities).
M question: which one of the expert groups pushed for the fastest means to remediate rather than the safest and most environmentally sound? Or did they not have the right experts? And on purpose?
This is an excellent comment.
What did the experts prioritize? The best way to save face, money for the corporations or the environment and people?
Good points.
I’ve wondered about the cooling. Did they have the resources at THAT location to cool them … even with just fire department water spray… or would that sudden cooling be just as risky potentially causing the metal tankers to contract and rip open a seam?
Regarding your other thought:
I’d assume they couldn’t get close enough because of the fire or the valves were already ruined/seized by the heat to even try such a maneuver. But it’s a brilliant idea.
I read the preliminary NTSB report. I think the problem is the way NS railroad determines what is a problem. Here are the facts – sensors on the tracks measured the wheel temperature on the axle with the bearing failure to climb from 30F over ambient to 253F above ambient in 30 miles. The first sensor indicated that axle was similar to the others – no problem. The second sensor 10 miles away sensed that the same axle climbed to 69F while the others stayed at the original 30F. The third sensor 20 miles later indicated 253F. The procedure is to not stop and inspect for problems unless axle is 170F. Under this procedure the train wasnt required to stop after second sensor. No considerations for differences or ramp rate in heat. Its laughable and sad that such weak procedures are in place despite all the hardware being in place to have a more intelligent sensing system. I cant believe the railways got away with such a crappy specification. The second sensor should have triggered an alarm that would have allowed both the conductor/engineer as well as command center at NS to debug and come up with a plan before this train traveled another 20 miles into town.
The other stop and inspect is for a temperature differential on bearings on the same axle of 115 degrees. That also hadn’t been exceeded but the trend was there. Mile marker 79 –38 degrees above ambient. Mile marker 69–103 degrees above ambient. A 65 degree change in 10 miles or an average of 6.5 degrees per mile. That trend suggests that they’d hit the 115 degree difference within 2 miles.
Was it company policy that didn’t allow the engineer to make the decision without a HBD warning because the next sensor showed a 253 degree above ambient and that led to the failure. The bearing temperature increased at a rate of 7.5 degrees per mile from mile marker 69 to mile marker 49.
AGREE The engineer should have seen and understood the warning————if he was awake!!!!!!!!!! IT has happened before!
Well said, sir.
Georgia Tech grad? Schantz fan?
Interesting. Yes, predictive systems often use absolute values opposed to rates of change. It is simpler and requires vastly less data storage and analysis. The railroads have collected vast amounts of data about these failures. I would suspect, but I do not know, that they have established that a specific temperature is the indicator they need in almost every case. In my world, both are used, but I am not in the railroad world. We use a combination of absolute, trends, rate of change, audio and vibration spectrum, infrared and other indicators depending on machine history and the specific type of failure that is to be detected. Railroad bearings are incredibly simple. I would guess that absolute temperature measurements are accurate for predicting impending catastrophic failure almost every time. Almost. We may very will be discussing the one failure in a hundred/thousand/million that is outside the historical data.
I don’t believe the hot box temp readings. The video 42 mins before the derailment shows a fire. I don’t know about you but most wheel bearing fires are over 400 deg F. So someone needs to explain how it was only 253F over ambient in the winter. Either the sensor was not functioning properly or the hot box that detected it was ignored for 42 minutes. Or something.
There is video of the grease and debris surrounding the faulty rail car truck ON FIRE documented, according to the video source, at least 45 minutes before the train derailed in E Palestine Ohio.
Not buying the NTSB lady’s explanation.
I agree. I saw that video too. I think Sundance posted it here.
| EXCLUSIVE: A whistleblower has provided us with a photo of CCTV from a location in Columbiana Co, OH.
In it, the Norfolk Southern train appears to be on FIRE at 8:13:48, at least *41 minutes* before the derailment reported at 8:54pm by NTSB.
How did hotbox detectors not pick this up? Was the crew alerted to this?? Told to ignore it?? Why didn’t they stop the train? |
*Not clear on actual location…. but the town of Columbiana, OH is 10 miles by car.
Salem, OH where an earlier footage of was said to be from, is 19 miles by car.
Looks equally like a thermite device stuck to the inner side of the journal box … by members of the team who are burning hatcheries and packing plants. Wild conspiracy? Y’all tell me.
💯
Would not doubt it!
Yeah, pretty wild, but not 0 probability.
The train derailment did not cause the catastrophe in Ohio.
Some person three days after the derailment caused the catastrophe when they decided to burn what was in the tankers.
What was in the cars? Vinyl chloride would have gasified upon leaving the pressure of the cars. They said they drained it into a pit to burn.
One car was heating.
How fast was it heating? They still had forty degrees before it became volatile according to this report.
Why was it heating? Was it loosing nitrogen from its outer tank? If it was then why not just replace the nitrogen?
If the other cars were stable, why not pipe the contents from the unstable car away from the other cars to burn it and leave the other cars to be recovered?
Incompetence is dangerous and fire burns evidence.
Any of the chemicals we are told they are dealing with would be heavier than water. A sample taken on the top of the water could be clean but if you go to a deeper hole in the creek and get a sample off of the bottom of the creek you might not get anything but chemical.
The gas is also heavier than air.
Vinyl Chloride | H2C=CHCl – PubChem (nih.gov)
It is shipped under pressure as a liquid.
Why was it heating? Was it loosing nitrogen from its outer tank? If it was then why not just replace the nitrogen?
If it was heating then there was a breech allowing the nitrogen to escape. Then the question becomes was there also a breech in the inner tank which would allow VC vapors to begin escaping.
As to replacing the nitrogen was there a local source of Liquid nitrogen with enough stored capacity to make a difference.
NTSB preliminary report says there were five derailed DOT-105 specification tank cars carrying vinyl chloride
Here are Specifications for Pressure Tank Car Tanks (Classes DOT-105, 109, 112, 114 and 120)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-179/subpart-C
Absolutely correct. The train derailment and the release of hazardous materials were two, completely separate, incidents.
And both involved the Railroad, in full collaboration with the Government.
There are your culprits.
this AmericanThinker from a few days ago
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/02/why_was_the_east_palestine_tank_car_blown_up.html
Why did they blow up the tanks?
No human error?? How about the decision to blow holes in the derailed tankers and light the vinyl chloride in the ditch on fire producing that toxic cloud? No human error??
thanks, Mike Dewine.
Thanks for nothing.
Did they pull the maintenance records?
My guess, shredder or fire. But then, I’m a born skeptic!
I am a maintenance guy that deals in catastrophic failures. Did they pull the records? Someone did and quickly. No doubt. Maintenance records of most machinery are notoriously incomplete, non-specific and inaccurate. Exceptions include things like airplanes and power generation. I have been involved with machinery failures for 40 years and many of the machine have detailed maintenance records. In most cases, the failure can not be predicted from records but the progress to the failure can be seen after the fact.
Here is the point. Whether it was imperative to shut the train down depends on how many of these indications they get and how many of them turn out to be catastrophic. It should not be that way but it is. If it is a warning they get a lot and nothing is ever wrong, then they may think it is not really wrong this time too. It is human nature. Does not make it any better.
Maybe, maybe not.
“Train 32N passed three HBD systems on its trip before the derailment. At MP 79.9, the suspect bearing from the 23rd car had a recorded temperature of 38°F above ambient temperature. When train 32N passed the next HBD, at MP 69.01, the bearing’s recorded temperature was 103°F above ambient. The third HBD, at MP 49.81, recorded the suspect bearing’s temperature at 253°F above ambient.
NS has established the following HBD alarm thresholds (above ambient temperature) and criteria for bearings:
• Between 170°F and 200°F, warm bearing (non-critical); stop and inspect
• A difference between bearings on the same axle greater than or equal to 115°F (non-critical); stop and inspect
• Greater than 200°F (critical); set out railcar”
They worked to the rule but looking at the data the trend was there and they would have exceeded the stop and inspect long before the next HBD. Looks like this is a letter verses spirit of the law failure. Probably company policy.
All of these sensor rules are in place because a hot box is such a serious equipment failure, and can cause catastrophic derailments. It’s a safety net, but the last one.
It sidesteps the issue that the number one cause of a hot box is a shortfall of maintenance.
They are supposed to be constantly re-lubricated. And last I checked that was still a manually-performed job.
Would a hot box detector record high temperatures from a heat source on the INside of the journal box – the side away from where the bearings are packed?
But Pete Buttgiggles says this is the fault of Trump slacking regulations on braking systems. Should we doubt Alfred E. Neuman’s word, Pete being so awesomely intelligent and experienced and stuff?
I don’t
So, they were horrified by Trump’s regulatory actions, so horrified that they’ve nothing to reverse it in over 2 years.
Right.
On your watch, and two years has passed.
Yep, Biden wasted no time in repealing much of PDJT’s legacy bills, on day 1.
“The System Worked as Planned, there were no Human Errors.”
And it resulted in a catastrophe.
Welcome to Feudal America.
The human error occurred in DC.
That was no error. It was deliberate.
There’s no evidence of humans in DC
The regulatory system worked as planned. The hot box warnings were in alignment with policy, and the humans worked the policy. There wasn’t/isn’t room in the policy to use their god given sense. Several have noted the trend of temperature increase, which woulda, coulda, shoulda triggered action.
This is not allowed. Nothing can trigger action until the policy allows it. Thou shalt not have an independent thought, even if it would be helpful, especially if it is useful, unless we can make it look like WE thought of it first.
Regulation and policy do not remove all risk. They are supposed to cover the usual, common problems so that the brain can engage with “crap, didn’t see that one coming” events. Makes me nuts that people think that SAFE is a constant.
I’d also like to note that this report is only about the train. I’m not sure, but I don’t belive there will be a published after action report widely available to the public about the emergency response – I’d be thrilled to be wrong about that.
Operation and maintenance are two different things. A hot box is nearly always caused by a failure of the latter. Good that the crew did its job, but a hot box very often causes derailments.
And everyone is completely forgetting the threatened railroad strike late last year, and the possible causal connection.
The Unions virtually warned that equipment and track failures were becoming unavoidable without some concessions to working basics. Biden bludgeoned them into submission on a bad deal with the Railroads.
The Biden Clown Administration threw the Unions under the bus. Such irony.
The MSM is too busy blaming Trump for non-applicable rule changes years ago. And has conspicuously avoided the Railroad Union events of last year.
That is what they are paid to do, all of them. FOX is just as bad as any of the others.. I feel China closing in on the whole Country.
At the rate Brandon & Company are going, China will not get much for their yuan, buying what’s left of our once-thriving economy and productive assets.
That’s right. You point to an essential part of the narrative.
Here’s a plausible explanation for why things are being covered up:
https://rense.com/general97/chemical-weaponry-destined-for-ukraine-ignited-in-east-palestine.php
It shouldn’t be difficult to find out who was receiving those tank cars as there is a lot of paperwork.
WOW. Excellent find. Cross-posting this.
Question??? If the chemicals were going to Ukraine. Why was the Train going west???
Info I have found sez train was heading from Conway, Pennsylvania, to Madison, Illinois. Since Madison is located inland very far from any seaport. How was the chemical going to get to Ukraine? Beam me up Scotty.
The train was headed from Madison, Illinois, to Conway, Pennsylvania.
Very interesting read:
Q: The train derails close to homes, people hear something and go outside to see, what would they first smell if something were leaking or exposed?
Thanks for the write up.
Some call them false flag events.
There is something false about the miss stated cause (as cover for dirty deeds),
but
there is nothing false about the damages and harms to people.
whom would sabotage an undersea, nordstream pipeline
and blame it on someone else?
whom would provoke peaceful protestors in 2020, or J6
stir a riot, and blame it on someone else?
Let’s see, the preceeding backdrop in Jan 2023 regarding the unneeded conflict in ukr…
2 years of u.s. domestic policies are failing, in many ways.
Someone needs something else to their attention away from domestic problems.
Ukr: The US, and media is saying for months, almost a year, that it is winning the unneeded battle
(but, russia keeps grinding westerly,
and sssslowly, the public begins to notice the truth…russia, is winning )
The u.s. arrogance, can not say that russia is winning. the arrogant need to save their face, their reputation (at others costs)
(and the u.s. is losing billion$, plus thousands of lives)
So, someone in u.s thinks of using a false flag event,
again (with the help of a compliant media),
to try to miss create a u.s. white hat,
russia black hat perception (not based on truth)
…and to incentivize more wasted u.s. spending etc.
Let’s see, ‘chemical’ weapons seem to catch the public attention (s0 does nuclear)…
Where can they quietly get some toxic chemicals?
{ and further waste resources and further weaken the usa, and
become set up the usa, as a mark, for attack from enemy (replying to u.s. provocation(s)]
yes, uh huh, the balloon floating over the usa (also in Feb) was not aiding and abetting an enemy?
I do not know
Finding and sharing the truths,
can help.
WOW! Thank you for this information.
Nobody did anything wrong, and everything worked perfectly, until it didn’t, but it is nobodies fault. Yea, right.
You forgot Trump.
If they have heat sensors due to a fire potential has anyone considered some sort of built in extinguisher?
Too much heat. Too much friction. It’s a catastrophic thing and often a prelude to a much bigger catastrophe.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=248176
I’d say human error was back in play
I’m sure this was already posted but here goes: “From 1990 to 2021 there were an average of 1,705 train derailments per year, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics and Federal Railroad Administration. In 2021, there were 1,087 train derailments, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.”
There could be a lot of “near misses’ in these derailments that could have been catastrophic but were not, so we would never know. Maybe that’s why extra detection equipment have been installed in critical areas due to population, infrastructure, etc.
The Market Ticker.Org Today Had A Post About This
Reminds me of a TV Movie back in 73
A group of skiers are trapped inside a runaway train hurtling down a mountainside.
NTSB gives Train conductors a full pass !!
This despite the railcar’s axle, being overheated & on fire, for 40 minutes prior to the East Palestine sensors alerting the crew.
The train should have past another set of sensors, 10-20 miles before the East Palestine sensors, but there was no mention of that ??
As much as i would like to spend time listening to another gubbermint agency tell us there’s nothing to see, and no one to blame, well sorry i believe the complete opposite which is probably more truth. Gubbermint has lost ALL credibility.
Don’t remember where it was (someone’s twitter account) while reading thelastrefuge2 a couple days ago.
A woman filmed parked liquid tanks on a train track out in the middle of walnut and cow country in California.
She said that they went on -for miles! !!
She said that local ranchers and farmers said it was most unusual and expressed concern.
-Are they empty???
-Are they full of chemicals???
——————————
-WHAT are they doing there???
-WHY
are they there; hundred of them, parked on the tracks?
Could simply be storage. Just like warehousing of goods until needed or the price is right for selling.
Might be at that particular location because the temperature is better for the contexts (if they’re full of something) or might be an infrequently used stretch of track that’s suitable for parking cars.
Write down some car numbers as a reference, take some pix, and then call the railroad to ask. Probably a phone number somewhere at one of the railroad crossings.
If they brush you off I bet they’d suddenly be interested when you mentioned seeing some “masked men doing some questionable things” around those cars.
Turn off caller ID before dialing.
Can I stop laughing now… every crash in the military whether it be plane, boat, automobile , helicopter.. etc..was human error. Somewhere along the line at some point a human messed up. So ya sorry NTSB .. this is an obvious cover up at some level
There are catastrophic failures which aren’t necessarily associated with human error. This wasn’t one of them.
In the last couple of years we have witnessed an unusually high number of fires, explosions, derrailment, mass shootings and all manner of destabilizing incidents, way beyond the usual annual incidences. Is it possible that foreign sleeper cells have been activated to create unrest here? We have three principal geopolitical adversaries and all have the will and capability for this.
yes
Denninger talks about this, blaming … Stupidity!
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker
Like Sundance, KD can see thru all the murk and get right to the point. People should arrested, tried and go to prison for causing disaster. Starting with the 3 and 4 letter agencies involved.
KD is not what he projects himself to be. He posts on his own blog as multiple sock puppets. He deletes entire sections of comments that do not agree with him from time to time. He does not tell you when or what is deleted. He bans people when his mood sours for no good reason. I participated on his blog from 2008 to 2010 or 2011.
When I left, another person who had participated started up their own blog from former Market Ticker participants. It filled up quickly. Alas, a year or so later, I quit it too.
Sundance does none of those things.
My preferred source for unadulterated info on transportation-related incidents is found at blancolirio. Get to know his site and his expert reporting. Can be found on YT. (Good job, Sundance, for bringing attention to this accident).
Cheers,
harrietht3
From NTSB report. At MP 79.9, the suspect bearing from the 23rd car had a recorded temperature of 38°F above ambient temperature. When train 32N passed the next HBD, at MP 69.01, the bearing’s recorded temperature was 103°F above ambient. The third HBD, at MP 49.81, recorded the suspect bearing’s temperature at 253°F above ambient. NS has established the following HBD alarm thresholds (above ambient temperature) and criteria for bearings:
So, where or what were the readings, at mile marker 59.?? They have readings from 79,69 & 49, so where are the 59 readings ??
Sometimes, manytimes, it’s what they do not tell you, what they omit !!!
Train 32N passed three HBD systems on its trip before the derailment. yes, we know that, but did it pass 4 ?? A reach, you tell me, with all the other corruption going on ??
Environmental sabotage? Similar to the nuts in the 70’s but on a much larger scale?
The Occupants admin has given cover to this movement. Backed financially by large left wing donors.
I mentioned in earlier topics that i believe Nordstream is linked to this movement…not as much against the Russki’s but against the flow of oil itself.
Throw in food plant explosions etc.
These are environmental nuts and unfortunately being supported by the Occupant’s admin.
The occupant’s admin is behind this effort 100%.
“No Evidence” don’t instill confidence in Stinky Pete’s DOT…
Just sayin’
Of course you can just dismiss everything out of hand as “all lies”. I have heard NS state the wayside detectors “worked as designed”. We don’t know what the design criteria are so impossible to confirm that. What we do know is that the 3 detectors did record data that showed rising temperatures over time. Apparently the operating rules from NS look only at temps and not trends. There is no information about the analysis NS used to establish those rules and if the NS follows guidance from trade group AAR or FRA. Thinking back years ago to my time as a naval engineer, our criteria for “stop and lock” was 180 degrees or “rapid rise”. I don’t recall that “rapid rise” was defined.
The report discusses a rise in temperature in one of the DoT Class 105 tank cars carrying vinyl chloride. I’m not sure how that was determined. That seems to be associated with a concern that the relief valve on that car did not operate. Apparently that valve was sent to Texas for engineering analysis.
I worked on a railroad so I know all railroad equipment is required to have periodic safety inspections. This includes axle bearings on locomotives and rail cars. If the derailed car had a bearing which was out of date or showing signs of lubricant leakage at it’s last inspection, it was supposed to be taken out of service and the defective axle assembly replaced. I believe that the findings of this ongoing investigation will show this was not done. That is when this tragedy began and it may have been months before the actual derailment occurred. Empty rail cars can sit for weeks and sometimes months before they are loaded and put into a train so defects can go un-noticed for extended periods of time.
Looks like a separate study at Texas A&M is investigating possible long-term effects of breathing in the toxic air there:
Three weeks after the toxic train derailment in Ohio, an independent analysis of Environmental Protection Agency data has found nine air pollutants at levels that could raise long-term health concerns in and around East Palestine.
The analysis by Texas A&M University researchers seems to contradict statements by state and federal regulators that air near the crash site is completely safe, despite residents complaining about rashes, breathing problems and other health effects…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/02/24/ohio-derailment-toxic-air-pollution/
Biden/Obama punished the people of Palestine because they overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
That’s the story, not a seized axle.
Diversity = Incompetence
Woke Takeover of America Complete. Obama Succeeds in Fundamentally Changing America
Watch: White House Brags About Most Staff Being Black, Female, Or LGBTQ+
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-white-house-brags-about-most-staff-being-black-female-or-lgbtq
safe and secure mask. safe and effective vaccine. right…the government is not here to help us. I believe nothing from these agencies.
Gotta look at what them might be covering up. It might not be the railroad they are covering for.
Regulatory history of Electronically Controlled Pneumatic Braking
https://www.regulations.gov/search?filter=PHMSA-2017-0102
Show of hands: does anyone believe any dam thing the “Government” tells you..especially this Government? Yes you in the back…you believe? Oh you were just scratching your nose. OK.
I’m an engineer with a different railroad, a thousand mile away from NS, so I don’t know ‘exactly’ what differences are between how they do things and how my railroad does. But all railroads do operate under a shared basic rules book. Using that basis and my 15+ years of experience I’ll share some thoughts.
Our hot wheel detectors are spaced out about every 15-20 miles. If the detector announces a failure there is a table that determines the crews required action. It depends upon the type of train, the type of failure, and sometimes the elements of the track ahead. Sometimes it’s required to slow to 30mph until the next detector finds the same defects. Sometimes it’s required to immediately stop and inspect the train. Sometimes you have to set the defective car out from the train. Sometimes you can ‘fix’ the defect. Sometimes to can simply continue on to the next terminal at 30mph. Whatever the case, however, any defect detection will at the very least, slow the train down.
No crew would ever willingly ignore a detector failure message. One, obviously because we live in the same communities we run our trains through and have no desire to do what happened in Ohio. Secondly because the primary job of railroad managers is to fire us. No kidding, that’s what they spend most of their time trying to do. Ignoring a detector is something that can’t be hidden and will 100% end up with the entire crew getting fired. Third, we simply don’t care about moving the company’s freight. The incentives as an employee are not for moving freight. As I noted about the firing, that incentive is tilted toward following the rules or getting fired. I don’t get paid a cent more if the train moves slow or fast. In fact, if we have to stop the train and fix shit then I usually end up making more money and my friends working here end up making more money and they end up needing more people to move trains so more of my friends end up working and making money too. Not only are we making more money, but we are doing less actual work. Everybody stops their train and takes a nap. The trains don’t make it to the terminal in time for them to make us do all the work there. Paid more, less work. It’s perverse, but almost every railroad employee laughs and smiles when ‘meltdowns’ happen. We make money. The managers go powerlessly batsh&^. The company, which cares so much about us, gets f744led. It’s a win-win.
So, in my opinion, this crew would have stopped at any option to do so and had no incentive or reason to keep going if they knew there was a problem.
I have been trying to post this comment. More details can be found on Market ticker.org second page comments. There was a bad word in the context that was throwing it in moderation. Sorry about that. Raw was the guy that posted it.
yeah, you gotta disguise any potential bad word using numbers or special characters, like f#ck or h0m0 (zeros)
Question. Would your company dispose of the dangerous materials in the most expedient way possible?
If that vinyl chloride went on an runaway reaction, those tanks would explode and even rocket. And one of five cars had shown signs of doing so, 3 days after the accident.
I personally don’t know why it took 3 days to address this. Was the plastic bead fire still burning? Could they not remove those cars in that time? Could they not remove that material safely and transport it away?
With that as the setup, they chose to dump and burn that material, not just from the one threatening runaway, but all five.
I get the feeling that part of the reason why they did so was to speed up resuming rail transport.
Would your company be so cavalier about the effects on the residents?
Is Jennifer Homendy telling us that freight trains are inherently extremely dangerous?
Any machine that large and moving is dangerous. All of them.
edit: accidental double post while fixing embedded tweet