UPDATE: I’m sticking this to the top of the page for a little while, because there is excellent feedback in the comments section. Awesome job with some granular detail.
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) released the preliminary findings from its investigation of the East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment. (video below)
There were three locomotives and 149 rail cars. Before the train derailed Feb. 3, the crew received a warning telling them to immediately slow and stop the train to conduct an inspection. It was during the deceleration that a railcar carrying plastic pellets had a wheel bearing failure, according to NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy. [Bullet Point Video, WATCH]
Thirty-eight cars derailed and fire damaged an additional 12 cars. Five tanker cars carry 115,580 gallons of vinyl chloride were part of the group that derailed. Vinyl Chloride is a flammable and toxic gas used to make PVC pipe. The initial fire was the result of the hot axle and the plastic pellets in the railcar. According to Mrs. Homendy, there was no evidence the three-person train crew did anything wrong. She said the NTSB, so far, hasn’t identified any operational issues with the defect detectors or railroad tracks.
Full Press Conference Video Below:
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So, this is normal operational procedure for a train carrying anything, toxic chemical or grain?
Really?
Nothing went wrong?
Am I missing something?
I wonder if they will actually look into the maintenance schedule and staff performing the maintenance.
IMHO the reason for all the mysterious factory fires and incidents like this is simply a factor of COVID and WOKE. The true workers, the ones that get stuff done, said “f’it” and quit or retired. Poorly run institutions (the vast majority of those that exist) had no mechanism for storing that ingrained institutional knowledge and passing it on.
Being short staffed and short work ethic you are left with stuff like this. This is exactly how great organizations and nations fail. The good people stop working or leave and the remaining ‘succubus’s” are left to try and figure out the processes and “that is how you do it” of which they have zero interest in actually doing.
Heck the union even said so in a press release a couple weeks ago!
It seems even less spontaneous than that to me…the timing…the locations all in the heart of white working class MAGA country…the reactions…the larger context…
Maybe those conditions are enabling purposeful sabotage…
So what you’re saying is that Atlas is shrugging…
Atlas has already Shrugged!
And the “Woke Generation” is filling the roles of the former workers. From the sidelines we are watching the results.
I don’t think people have any real idea of how true this is. The most obvious place to see it is in almost any retail store. Idiocracy is beginning to look like a prophecy rather than a dumb movie.
I spent the last 10 years of my career telling management to bring in some young folks for us to teach, because in 10 years there would’nt be anyone who knows how stuff works. They didn’t. They hired temps and contractors and sent that knowledge down the road so they could “make this quarter’s numbers”. The chickens are coming home to roost.
TRUE STORY: A few months ago, it happened to me.
I went to the drugstore to pick up my prescription meds. I asked for one of my blood pressure pills as I knew my pressure was high. So, they gave me one of my pills, I swallowed it. It is a big pill and it stuck in my throat.
I asked for some water. They refused. I asked a few times and explained that the pill was burning in my throat. They still refused! They showed me where to buy one bottle of water. And they were almost laughing. It wasn’t their job to give me a glass of water.
All the staff is in their twenties. Mostly females.
Yeah…. it is amazing and repulsive to me at the same time that there are people all aorund us who would rather watch a person suffer and die than to “break procedure” and ignore an arbitrary “rule”….
Disgusting….
I’m afraid you’re exactly correct. And it seems that all those people who are here to do the jobs that Americans just won’t do? Can’t do all the jobs that Americans have quit.
have you seen any of them working anywhere in your area’s?
I haven’t, not one of them, I know i am in ND and not the coasts but believe me “the bakken” has always been a hot spot for transients looking for work in the oil fields….. every place is hiring here, most are paying close to $20 hr even at fast food restaurants…… so where are all these millions of illegals working and living?
Probably here in California.
recent invitees in certain hotels in Manhattan, though, not working of course.
They’re nearly ALL sitting on the curbs outside the Home Depot in Concord, CA … even though Home Depot sales are cratering and nobody is hiring ANYONE out here, where the average home is paying $1,000.00/mo. to PG&E
That’s a lot of money to be paying for brownouts.
Ahh, California … always its own worst enemy. Yet, 20 million people put up with it.
Gavin Newsom says that what happens in CA is coming to the rest of the nation SOON! So laugh at me now … but you’re next!!
just half kidding … cause I want OUT of here!!
In the cities where it’s far easier to hide. That comment came from a border cop friend 15 years ago when I asked him that same question. Last I heard, he is on the Canada border now. Even that has illegals crossing. Justine Trudope let’s them cross…
Working? Getting paid to do nothing but breed.
I thought the globalists wanted to decrease population. Maybe it’s only a certain segment of the population.
Wait until chain migration kicks in.
A lot of roofing going on in my neck of the woods, and very few of the workers speak English. Not saying they are part of the group you’re mentioning, but a lot of non-English speakers are here in NC.
In the cities (not sure about our cities) many are living off of our dole, I believe. So, why work? Cloward-Piven is right before our eyes.
same here just a little south of you and not just roofers. I defy anyone to find an english speaking worker on any one of the 1000’s upon 1000’s of new homes being built here.
Some can speak English, It’s not their primary language.
Just moved to NC- near Raleigh. They are throwing up homes as fast as they can. Our little community of 30,000 (had 20,000 in 2020) issued 1807 single family home building permits in 2022. There must be 60 homes under construction within a mile of my house. I have seen a few whites and 95% Hispanics (man, those guys are good and they really work), but not a single African American yet. Not intended as an insult, just an observation.
Cloward-Piven indeed.
And perpetual wealth and power for the university overclass and leagues of otherwise unemployable academics and interlopers looking for celebrity in the government workplace.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs had a collateral meaning. Once a technology-dependent society achieves the threshold of self-indulged comforts, that which made the technology and its implementations possible are abandoned for the pernicious pursuit of narcissistic supply.
Secretary Buttplugg is the poster boy.
STAR TREK The Last Generation
What you observe has been true – roofers and drywallers and painters – in the NE GA mountains / W NC region for over fifteen years. I built maybe 100 homes in that region but quit when The Anointed One crushed the economy, writing the textbook fhat Biden is followong.
Those guys are humpin’ it. How many college age white or black kids do you see working on roofs in summer? Cutting grass? Painting houses? I admire their work ethic…they are the Gettr’ done generation of America now. And they’ll have families that go to public schools, and they’ll want their kids to have good jobs. I do think there is a disconnect in these workers’ kids getting screwed by the Public schools – they won’t learn spanish, and won’t work on roofs, but don’t have skills or education to go to college and earn a REAL degree after the colleges are teaching stupid stuff.
My suggestion w/b go in the trades – learn a skill, be the best, and make lots of money from those that can’t. Big big demographic changes – those with skills will make $100-200k with those that can’t paying through the nose.
My grandson had a fully paid ride (academic) to college. He has one year left but he has enrolled himself in a Technical College taking Industrial Electrical Maintenance/Mechatronics.
His major in college was Chemisty. He is tired of the b.s. going on in College and has finally walked away. We support him entirely and as always proud of his decisions.
I see many whites working where I live
young, middle aged and old
there are some hispanics also
be careful
many of them are not trained
In Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Florida mostly.
If you came from tropical regions would you want to live in cold climates?
Sure, gas & oil jobs pay well, but with all the Gubment assistance and fraud any illegal can have a very decent lifestyle just making minimum wage.
I can’t tell you how many Latinos I see here in Texas with perfect teeth. Who paid for all that dental work? I sure can afford $20K-40K for a full set of crowns or implants.
This old White man is considering a name change and a stroll across the border.
With a tan, of course?!
Si, señor!
“can’t” 👆 typo
They work for cash … and live on our tax funded welfare … the RATS are doing to the illegals exactly what they did to blacks … welfare plantations with freebies in exchange for a RAT vote.
Here in the Seattle area it’s hard to find a white person doing any manual labor. It seems to be all Hispanics and they appear to be hard-working and capable. I don’t have a problem with that IF they are here legally, but who can tell?
Sundance pointed out over a year ago that because of the pandemic restrictions:
1) Facilities which remained in operation were forced to work 24/7, putting extreme stress on them.
2) Routine maintenance, repairs, and upgrades to machinery and infrastructure were all delayed or skipped entirely.
3) Loss of skilled workers who were fired or quit over the vaccine mandates reduced the experience and skill level of work teams.
So you are correct. We are reaping the seeds of lock downs and mandates.
Additionally, I imagine the same effects are rippling through the healthcare industry. We may not be seeing hospitals collapse, but I cannot believe the standard of care is at the same level it was in 2019. That is killing people.
I along with many co-workers (nurses) got burned out and used up during the scamdemic and either quit floor nursing or if they were old enough to retire quit. I cashed in a 45 year nursing career due to over work from the profit before people attitude of the modern bean counters running the medical field now . I still miss it some days .
Thank you for your service, Fred … 45 years of helping to save people’s lives.
Aha, Fred! You just made a point unrelated to your profession I have been saying for many years and SCREAMING the last few years – the BEAN COUNTERS (accounting and finance).
I work in the construction (commercial) supply industry. Got bought out by a Wall Street private equity owned behemoth. Everything is being destroyed by ‘beam counter’ policies and actions – compensation, benefits, quality of product and service, morale, retention, woke DEI/ESG bullshit, etc.
Know of several other professionals or semi-professionals in other fields- restaurant and hospitality (mid to high grade), IT services for the banking and finance industries, healthcare, manufacturing- all of them the same thing.
It’s everywhere. And every bit of it revolves around legalized overly greedy skimming by the useless eaters of life.
While there is a need for accountants, they have no concept of sales, operations, organic growth, etc.
Between F&A and HR, every large conglomerate is screwing their rank and file employees and providing the customers with ever decelerating poor products and services.
I feel your pain acutely and may be where you are within months, no more than a year.
That trend started in the 1980s, when every up-and-coming business wannabe with a Bachelor’s Degree was steered into an MBA program instead of an apprenticeship or a partnership.
Our company is benefitting after the Private Equity buys successful companies, cashier the founders, and then cut spending on all R&D down to paperclips. How did the Yellowpages private equity firm investments work out? The technology trends killed them, but like Don Surber pointed out, the idiot PE owners thought the gravy train would go on forever, as they bled off fees every year. The smart founders either play golf, or the younger ones go do it again, and kick the butt of the braindead company run by 30 y/o harvard grads that can’t relate to worker folks.
Opportunities are like Bill Gates’ selling IBM their DOS for free. Strategic positions that will gush billions of dollars for generations if properly maintained & tended, to take advantage of dummies with PE funding buying out Last Year’s great companies. Rackspace, Kronos, Visa, etc. Management running them are just PE caretakers, not Visionaries that see where technology leads, and what needs t/b done to stay in front of it.
The problem with letting bean counters run everything is that, eventually, we will run out of beans. Completely.
hospitals are downright scary. Doc on Gunsmoke is my choice.
So true. Visited a relative in a hospital a few years back. Frequented the cafeteria when I visited. One day, I go into his room and there’s a woman, a “care associate,” doing nursing type things. The problem? Just a few weeks before, she was dishing out food in the cafeteria. One 40-hour class in the hospital and she was taking care of patients. One assumes people doing nursing care are nurses. Not anymore.
“…but I cannot believe the standard of care is at the same level it was in 2019.”
Boy is that the understatement of the year.
4) Loss of skilled workers who have died or injured from the jab or multiple jabs.
What is the easiest place to cut corners and make more money? Maintenance is NOT in the process to produce the end product (profit), so cut that and you start seeing more profit. It’s all a matter of time before the procedure starts to fall apart. The first step in reduction of maintenance is PM (preventive maintenance) going bye byes. PM is replacing stuff that approaches it’s end of life expectancy (EoL). The railroads used to have an Engineer, Conductor, and Brakemen, which maintained the train. These defect detectors, do they work both sides of the train? Or do they only check the side they are on? Supposedly, they are 20 miles apart. If they were to be staggered (every ten miles on each side) would not the detector pick up the heat sooner? Somewhere down the line, the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Is this what happened here? Did they cut back so far that they hit that point and it was only a matter of time that this occurred? Yeah, everything was working the way it should have worked, but did the pursuit of the almighty profit go too far? I’m retired and I worked the maintenance end of things, and before I retired I had questions of “did someone think this through” enough when I saw supposed improvements? I was NOT in the assembly process, but I caught a lot of issues before disaster struck! I saw it slowly happening as they cut back our work force. Just think of that “bean counter” that kept track of this! Did they get a reward for “streamlining” the process? When something was happening, I could maybe see, hear, or smell it. What I’m driving at, is humans CAN be more efficient at picking issues up than any machine. Yet we are the first to get “let go.”
To answer your question…the sensors read both sides of the axles.
I had a long conversation with a N/S electrician 2 days ago.
Their maintenance has been cut to the bone.
Hence the rule to stop and inspect if there is a 115 degree F difference in bearing temperature on the same axle.
Humans “can” be. But when those that have a nose and the knowledge that goes with it pack it in and quit/retire, the humans left are likely not as experienced, and consequently, are diminished in their ability to have the nose and knowledge to be those humans that “can”. Top it off with a woeful younger generation will have no desire no ability to fill the vacuum, the future does not look good at all.
This sounds scarily logical to me. The reaction by the Biden Administration is basically like the way they burned and buried the toxic waste: look like you’re doing something and let those down the line deal with the results.
EP accident is proof positive that climate change hysteria is BS; air, water and soil were environmentally impacted yet no green groups are demanding cleaning and prevention. Why? Because it’s all about control and redistribution of wealth.
Those green groups are all democrats. They probably have an unwritten rule among them that no criticism must be allowed that would make the Biden administration look incompetent. After all, he is their most powerful ally against climate change, the biggest environmental monster of all.
Atlas shrugged.
Sounds like Atlas Shrugged in a nutshell.
The owners of each car are supposed to perform regular maintenance, and the dates of last inspection are actually painted on the car. Let the record show that incidents like this are extremely rare, but they can happen, and there are emergency procedures in place to handle them when they do. Unfortunately, sometimes physics does not work in your favor. This “hot box” burned completely up and then stopped turning. Then it set the flammable cargo on fire.
Yep. so who owned that car? They are responsible for a lot of other cars, the train and a lot of other things including fixing the town. The vultures should be coming soon.
The train issue is one thing, the minor thing IMO. The bigger and more concerning issue: Why was the decision made to do the fastest thing and not the most ecological and environmentally sound thing (which is good for humans thing) regarding the VC? Who made that decisions? And not the Governors…they sign off on the recommendations given to them by the “experts.” And so who SOLD this as the best solution and why?
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-environmental-scientists-heading-to-ohio-killed-in-plane-crash
The CTEH scientists heading for Ohio to investigate a separate incident are not available to comment.
Very sorry their plane crashed and that they did not survive. However, I’ve become super suspicious of coincidences.
I still think it is sabotage on a huge scale
I also do not understand that there seems
to be no camera footage of these situations.
There is video of a fire under one car shot from a point FORTY-FIVE MINUTES uproute of the derailment. At 40 mph, that’s roughly 33 miles of travel, past at least two hot box detectors.
If the tank cars were carrying something a lot more dangerous than what was stated on their manifests, and an interested party decided to end their journey, might this have been a thermite bomb on the inner side of the journal box? The steel between the inner and outer sides of the box would absorb significant heat, possibly enough to “fool”the first trackside detector the railcar passed.
https://rense.com/general97/chemical-weaponry-destined-for-ukraine-ignited-in-east-palestine.php
And if you look all over, it’s happening everywhere. I see it all the time.
Look into the concept of frequency bias/illusion.
Excellent point! And as Sundance pointed out some time ago, many factories have been running more shifts or operating 24/7 to play catch-up ever since the “pandemic” caused shortages and backlogs.
Worn out equipment, poor or infrequent maintenance, and mediocre remaining employees who don’t care or go the extra mile could be the root causes for all these disasters.
I absolutely believe Liberals can be evil and that this Administration is evil and incompetent, but I can’t believe they are actually trying to kill us this way. Yet… the way they handled Covid treatments (denying Ivermectin) and vaccine development (experimental poison) makes one pause and reconsider.
I can believe they are.
Agree.
Simple example – Sears (the Amazon of 1886).
•In the 1970’s government mandated affirmative-action & quotas.
•nearly overnight every black female (AA & 2 quota checks) in store promoted to asst. dept. mgr. or dept. mgr. (everything was “departmented” housewares, hardware, shoes, men-women-children clothing, etc) I’m sure good people – just zero management experience.
•the experienced white males left as soon as they found another job as opportunity to advance no longer existed
•within 5 years the majority of all asst. & dept. mgrs. eliminated … replaced with central checkout stands … then catalog & auto failed
•you know the rest – bankrupt & gone by 2020.
This is a “KISS” example – but is exactly what is going on in serious, important, life sustaining institutions all over America … “the true workers who get stuff done are gone” … replaced with – woke, “degree’d”ignorant, entitled hires of color, gender, ethnicity & LGBT – and – illegal aliens.
Instead of empty buildings – they are leaving a trail of death, dependency, deviancy and destruction.
God please Bless WeThePeople with President Donald Trump, again.
KJP noisily touted the fact that “the majority” of Biden’s Cabinet is now non-white / non-binary or female. Goals are being met. That evil patriarchical merit is going bye-bye.
Very true. I’ve been in manufacturing since 1981 and some of what I see leaves me shaking my head so much I have nerve damage! One of neighbors is in HR and I tell her the craziness I run into. She told me I should write a book about, so I started it a few weeks ago. One thing I have noticed is that the craziness and stupidity is becoming all more frequent.
Yes. What you’re missing is the willingness to just blindly go along with the narrative.
Nothing went wrong because everything went according to plan.
You think they give a shit about this country?
Trains out of necessity are “the” transport of highly volital anything! Far safer than highways transport. Sadly, this type accident can happen. This time it happened in town. If you are weak in the knees over this, AND live anywhere near rr tracks move away. Not throwing aspersions… Trains carry LOTS of dangerous cargo. Lots! Now the trains are doubling in length and more… The RRs want to drop to only one human on these trains. Remember caboose’s? The guys that rode in them would have likely smelled that hot box on that axle. Those guys have been gone for years. I wonder when they will push to completely remote control trains. Yep. I live at least 10 miles from NS and CSX mainlines. Makes me more comfortable that way…
The trackside detectors did detect the “hot box” and did sound the alarm. But apparently it wasn’t just “hot” – it was on fire. And, it seized up completely – stopped turning – before they could bring the train to a stop, then set the flammable cargo on fire.
This sort of thing happens “almost never,” but it can happen.
I would posit that it was a work to rule procedural error. At mile marker 79 the bearing was 38 degrees above ambient. Then at mile marker 69 it was 103 degrees above ambient but didn’t meet the inspection rule for a 115 degree differential on the the same axle. It should have been a warning that something was wrong. That difference in 11 miles was around 6 degrees per mile increase in temperature. It should have suggested that we stop and inspect because they would reach the standard within a couple of miles. So the real question is were they forbidden by company procedures to take the initiative to short circuit an accident. We see from the next HBD reading at mile marker 49 the temperature was 253 degrees or an increase of 150 degrees. That was an additional 7.5 degree per mile increase.
There are an average of 3 train derailments a day so while rare in the terms of number of trains running they aren’t so rare that it necessitated the deployment of HBD sensors on the tracks.
Henry Ford had the solution: Vertical integration on a single plant site. The River Rouge plant: Raw materials in one side and cars out the other.
If the EPA could see farther than its own budget, they’d recommend that raw stocks of hazardous chemicals be made on the lot next door to the plant that makes the finished products. Make the vinyl chloride and pipe it a half mile to the PVC pipe plant.
As an example the Tennessee Eastman chemical operation would be a good site for downstream product manufacturing.
This is not practical, but it’s understandable as to why it sounds appealing.
Areas like Texas City, TX, Lake Charles, LA, etc. would need to build out and become factory megalopolises. And then on the back end of that, we’d have to ship the end products – some of which are large and cumbersome – to the rest of the nation.
I think we can have an intelligent conversation about whether the US chemical industry is too centralized within the US Gulf Coast hub and a few other places, but we could not centralize the production of everything else around those areas.
Yes, Abigail — you have missed the point. The preliminary report found NO HUMAN ERROR — and that the safety check equipment and alerting mechanisms worked properly as well.
Of course, something went wrong — a wheel bearing failed and caused the derailment while the engineer was stopping the train and that car caught fire. The subsequent decision to open the valves on the tank cars to let the liquid vinyl chloride drain out and then to set it afire WAS human error (this should NEVER have been done) . But this isn’t part of this report.
BTW, you should ask Pete (what, me worry?) Buttigieg who ordered this.
Yess ….who did order that ???
But there was human error.
The detected temperature tolerance clearly was set too high or was malfunctioning on the hot box detector. If the axle was on fire for 42 minutes, where were the detectors in , say, the first 30 minutes if the detectors are 20 miles apart and the train is going the reported 47 mph?
Simple math problem.
I agree that the decision to drain the cargo and set it on fire was highly unusual. I would have sprayed water on all the tanks to try to keep them cool. But, if the tanks had not ruptured, I would not have opened them, and I definitely would not have set the VC on fire. I’d like to see the emergency-management procedures manual page which says to do that.
The CDC publication from 2006 discussed what happens when you mix vinyl chloride and water. One of the byproducts is hydrochloric acid. Remember “acid rain”? I believe that’s why the railroad chose to burn it. (I fault the ignorant governor that approved the operation.)
What they stupidly ignored was the temperature inversion that existed at the time that caused the toxic cloud of vinly chloride particles to be trapped underneath a weather front. The rain from the front drenched the entire area with hydrochloric acid (which explains the damaged car finishes and the burning sensations reported by locals after showering). Eventually it will all wash downstream but it could be decades before the area ecologically recovers.
But there’s an election next year so don’t believe your lying eyes. They will tell you whatever you want to hear so you will keep voting for the idiots in charge.
It was the burning of the VC that produced the HCl that then mixed with the rain to produce acid rain. VC itself is insoluble in water and non-reactive so it won’t produce HCl that way.
It will be many generations before the area recovers ecologically. The Dioxin plume contamination will last for centuries. As a result, there will unfortunately be generations of babies born with deformities, cancers and other dreadful diseases. This was an environmental disaster of epic proportions, which this administration basically ignored.
Look up the “killer fog” in Donora PA back in 1948: Inversions and calm air trapped exhaust gases from a zinc smelter. Many died.
Flash point of VC is -79 degrees F and boiling point is 7 degrees F. Spraying water on the tank would not have solved the problem. Unless you can keep the internal temperature of the tank below -79 degree F so the vapor pressure doesn’t reach a concentration that can be ignited then you are wasting your time on a procedure doomed to fail
BTW the temperature range that day in EP was a low of 3 and a high of 15. The tank in that car was heating up indicating a breech .
They found no human error on the train side. They stopped the train as they were suppose to. Neglect by the train car owner is the problem. Possible the response to it to, which is at the direction of the government.
Unfortunately, there are hundreds of wheel bearings on a train. “Hot boxes” can happen, and that’s why there are detectors placed every few miles along every track. The crew was alerted and followed the emergency procedures to stop the train, but this “hot box” seized up completely and derailed the car before they could bring it to a stop. I believe these findings.
That is a correct assessment. My problem is why they didn’t take some initiative when the data suggested they were going to reach a stop and investigate way point before the next HBD sensor.
Initiative? What’s initiative?
She’s saying the equipment worked properly. The bearing did not reach critical temperature until it passed the last detector and the crew initiated the correct action. Too late, unfortunately, to avoid the catastrophic failure and unintentional activation of the emergency brakes which is the cause of the derailment.
Letter of the law verses spirit of the law. Data point number 1 is 38 degrees above ambient at mile marker 79. Data point number 2 is 103 degrees above ambient at mile marker 69. The slope of the curve between those data points tells you that you will exceed safety limits in less than 20 miles and they did. The crew and most certainly the execs were working the letter of the law and by the time they reached the letter of the law the bearing failed and the train derailed.
Bad wheel bearings. It was butt-gig who went off the rails when he/her blamed Trump for what happened there.
yeah he blames trump for removing some regulation requiring special brakes or something like that back in 2017.well IF it was sooo bad that it would cause the end of the world.why didn’t joe and the dems reinstate it over the last 2 years when they had both house and senate????
Uh, uh, uh … well Trump covered up all that information … yeah, that’s the ticket … Trump hid that information, and not a single Harvard Graduate could figure it out.
He must have hidden it at Mar a Largo.
In Melania’s lingerie drawer.
My question too, Cherokee.
❣️❣️❣️
Also:
Joyless on the tainted view needs to eat some of that 💩 she spews.
“special brakes”
yeah, but it wasn’t a braking deficiency, it was lack of sufficient maintenace on a wheel bearing leading to an axle failure leading to derailment
I thought I read they set it on fire on purpose.
They did set the drained VC on fire. Don’t ask me why.
Read anotherworriedmom above for your answer. Pay attention.
You do realize that you are referencing a post written long after this post you are replying to. Also, it was in reply to the same Mike Robinson.
It does seem that you forgot to pay attention.
MR post 8:51 AWM reply 9:14
MR post 8:53, MR52 9:39 tells MR answer is in earlier AWM reply and scolds to pay attention.
That last bit was unnecessary and unbecoming. Not to mention flat out ignorant of the published times.
Without it, the first part could simply be a helpful reminder. Some people opt in to notifications of replies and others (like me) already have too much stuff to sort through so opt out and come back later (if ever) to review.
Yea, beat me with a wet noodle. Sorry. If you been following the threads this have been discussed several times. I am full on board about conspiracy theories but I really don’t think this is one. I do think we are going to see more of these types of accidents because the younger generation does not have the same value and stands the previous ones did.
I think the response to setting things on fire might have been the right thing to do, “if” water could really make the situation worst. The containment process sounds like it did not work well. The government response is awful. The focus should be on how to fix what happened, update the response SOPs and hold accountable parties responsible. Not sure how much the railroad is at fault here since posters keep saying the car owner is responsible for maintenance. I am not a safety expert, but it could have been a lot worst if they had not set the VC on fire. I need to ask my safety engineer friend about that. I am not ready to throw someone under the train for this yet.
Well, a 150 car train at 50 MPH would take about 10 miles to stop all that kinetic energy in motion. The train was in a slow down mode, so a weakened axle/wheel bearing at car # 23 would have a lot of energy pushing from behind it. Thus making a derailment almost imminent!
This bearing box wasn’t just “hot” – it was engulfed in flames. The owners of each car are responsible for regular maintenance which becomes part of the permanent record of that car. The railroad has access to those records for every car of every train.
I read that only certain types of trains were under that regulation and this train wasn’t one of them. So the claim that the regulation would have applied is wrong.
The truth is just an obstacle to the left.
A teeny tiny speed-bump.
Yes, which they could have gotten rid of if that Mary Poppins-singin’ twit had been appointed Ministress of Truth.
The regulations that apply to railroad operations are consistent. There are no “exceptions to the rule.”
TY. I thought that statement was odd.
I’m curious. Where did you read that that train was not under that regulation?
Exactly 💯 my question all of the overturns he forgot that one
The original Act was a “high flammability” train. What Obama did was re-work it so it was only for oil and gas trains. This particular train would NOT have been covered! Look it up. Trump was POTUS when the decision was made that it wasn’t worth the expenditure to do it. Trump had very little to do with that. That was railroads. Braking on an air brake system, which is what the RR uses, gets applied one car at a time. So in a long train, it takes a long time to get the whole train to stop. Just think, in an emergency brake situation, the first 15 cars are trying to stop and the last part of the train is still pushing with energy. Thus you get derailments. The electronic brake that was proposed, would incur massive costs to implement. To put it in perspective, just think if we all drove electric cars and we needed to recharge at different times. Remember the drain on the system last summer when they asked us to only run our air conditioners in our homes after 9PM?
An air brake applies the brakes to every car simultaneously. It does not “go from one car to the next.” The pressurized air pipe runs the entire length of the train. The positive air pressure keeps the brake shoes open. So, if the pipe breaks or becomes uncoupled, the effect is to “apply the brakes.” Thank you, Mister Westinghouse.
Pa Hermit is correct. The brake pipe air is bled only through the locomotives during an application. It takes nearly 30 seconds for the brakes to begin being applied at the last car of a mile long train, assuming there is no distributed power in use. Emergency applications can indeed cause derailments, although this is usually preferable to having a train rolling out of control. ECP brakes eliminate this lag, but they only work when every car in the train is equipped. Since cars are interchangeable, every car in North America would need ECP brakes in order to ensure that any given train could use it. Also, railroads don’t own most of the cars. The cost burden would be on the car owners, who don’t have nearly as much money and have no incentive to cooperate with each other.
30 seconds? Not much of a lag to distinguish it from near simultaneous, I’d say. But I’m not a RR engineer either.
While once the negative pressure pulse arrives at the car and actuating the brake is almost instantaneous by the pulse there is a train length dependent delay between the first and last cars for the actuating pulse to arrive. The pressure wave in the pipe travels not faster than the speed of sound about 330m/sec. The actuating pulse is negative so if the pressurized pipe fails then the train will stop automatically.
Thousands of trains are rolling every day and all of them pass “hot box” detectors every few miles. They almost never go off – but they can, and that’s why they’re there.
And that regulation would not have even covered this train- that Reg was changed during Obama’s admin to have it only pertain to rail cars / trains with petroleum type products. VC would not have met the threshold anyway. I believe even the NTSB Director provided clarity on Twitter.
Butt-gig for sure. I don’t even want to think about that creature.
Butt Buddy messed up big here. Instead of focusing on the issues and helping the people (there job) they are blaming Trump or the railroad. Starting to look more like the rail car owner and the government response are the problem.
What company was transporting the vinyl chloride? That’s my question.
“The Company” in Langley…
of note, on another site today I read that there were 5 tanker cars of vinyl chloride
said a main use is as a component in making hard plastics
hence PVC – polyvinyl chloride
Interesting sidebar – In 2020 we decided to have a 48′ long section of PVC fence installed in our backyard to separate ours from the neighbor’s (their kids / dogs did not respect the property line or our bushes or flowers.)
Called in local reputable contractor; got quoted for a quality product but since we ordered a heavier and better quality product than Home Depot’s ordinary stock, it required at least 12 weeks for delivery. Reason? Shortage of PVC. Wood fence could be installed in a week. But PVC = 12+ weeks. The shortage was a recent development, allegedly because of “covid”….
Apparently the raw PVC is shipped to the mfr.’s factory (in New York) and formed into fencing there. Cheaper and more readily available white vinyl fencing products come from China. We didn’t want that because it is notably thinner-walled PVC.
Some companies own their rail cars and the railroad just pulls it for them.
That is very common. And, there are railroad contractors who provide regular service to things such as wheel bearings. The maintenance records are part of the permanent record of the car, and the railroad has immediate access to those records for every car in every train.
Correct. Especially specialty cars designed to hold specialized loads. Most Class I railroads lease some of their rolling stock these days, depending on market forecasts for the commodities being carried.
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/economics-of-railcars-are-complex
Good guess would be Oxy.
i read that the train traveled 20 miles past the signal warning to stop … and it STILL hadn’t stopped!?
How fast was the train traveling when it derailed!? By the look of the crash … I would estimate the train was STILL moving FAST. This report sounds really bullshitty … like protecting the humans so they won’t start singing like birds. How long till a crew member “didn’t commit suicide”?
47 mph when the braking began. Speed limit was 50.
I have read that the first car to derail was 23 cars deep. An important function of the train crew is to visually inspect their train by side mirrors or looking out the windows as the train is rounding curves. 23 cars deep in the train would be approximately 1400 feet back from the locomotive, approximately 1/4 mile. When a journal is burning off, believe me, you can easily see it 1/4 mile back on a curve. Inattentiveness by the crew in not checking their train on curves may be a factor….
Too many texts to send … too many TiKTok vids to check out. “Don’t text and wreck” … oh … that’s just automobiles, Nevermind.
I think you spelled ” intentional ” wrong 😉
Remember, they eliminated the “crummy” and crew back in the 70’s. This train had a crew of 2 plus a trainee.
Old time trains had a crew of engineer, fireman, conductor, and brakemen. Lots of eyes back then!
OUCH!!! THE ENTIRE TRAIN?
Love of money is the root of all evil.
The trackside detectors told them there was a “hot box.”
And the braking began when/where relative to the initial warning? How far from the crash site did the braking begin?
I realize that a train that large, traveling at that high of a speed, would take a long time to come to a stop. But, I have a hard time believing it would have taken 20 miles.
Thanks again, Sundance!
I’m no expert … but I suspect the train WAS traveling at near 47 mph when it derailed … just looking at the crash site and scattering of cars. So when did the braking begin? And how many mph did the train cut from initial braking to crash?
I’m not buying no human error.
It would take about 10 miles to stop that train. Car #23 had issues (bearing/axle) of a 150 car train. braking starts at the engine and one car at a time down through the train. Car #23 would have a helluva lot of kinetic energy behind it. That’s how a lot of derailments work. Rubber does not meet the rails, steel on steel there! In emergency breaking, that’s how flat spots on wheels occur. Ever hear a flat spot on a wheel as a train went by? Pretty noisy.
No, air brakes in a train are applied simultaneously to every car in the train. A pressurized air pipe keeps the brake shoes open, so that if the hose breaks the brakes will be applied. The “end of train device” that now substitutes for a caboose has a sensor to detect air pressure.
Mike, my understanding from working for a Class 1 railroad many decades ago – a pneumatic pressure change does not ‘transmit” through a long freight train at the speed of an electric signal. Probably requires 20 to 30 seconds for the drop in pressure to reach the last car of a 150 car train (we didn’t have trains that long in the late 1960s). It’s relatively quick, but does not occur instantaneously throughout the entire length of the train.
Yeah. Before they tell us what it can’t be, shouldn’t we know all that it is and might be?
Probably not twenty miles, but certainly several.
Sundance- the train was a three engine push pull tag. Was the derail in the front section or the rear section? I could not find informaiton on that. If the derail was in the front section, with the lost bearing etc. the momentum
would be massive. In the rear section a slow response is shoving the train. They are supposed to be linked, back brake, middle brake front idle brake. A collection of issues, while low level maintenance appears to start the chain reaction. Be well my friend. A nod and scotch. Raven6 11965 – 1993.
After taking off from Bill & Hillary Clinton’s airport in Arkansas: Five Environmentalists Flying to Ohio Die In Plane Crash – Worked For Company Testing Water In East Palestine, Ohiohttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/five-environmentalists-flying-to-ohio-die-in-plane-crash-worked-for-company-testing-water-in-east-palestine-ohio/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/arkansas-firm-identifies-executives-dead-plane-crash
They were flying in to deal with the metal factory explosion.
Not the train.
Apparently the congressman representing E. Palestine told constituents to contact this firm according to the Gateway Pundit article: “CTEH appears to have a big roll in East Palestine because Ohio Rep. Bill Johnson has even directed his constituents to call CTEH’s hotline if they have any questions regarding smells, fumes or their health.”
Yes how convenient 🙄
With a hundred fifty car train at 50 MPH, it would take 10 miles to stop. You dont have rubber meeting the road, you have steel on steel on the high iron!
Exactly. It takes over a football field length to stop a single semi going 55mph. Rubber on road.
Imagine how long it takes for 150 train cars going almost 50mph with steel on iron.
I used to work for a light rail transit agency in SF Bay Area. Metal on metal takes a long time to stop especially when mechanical issues are at play.
The crew received an alarm that there was a “hot box” and in response they initiated the emergency procedure to stop the train – irregardless of any “signals.” But it takes a long time for a train to come to a complete stop. And this bearing simply burned up and seized up before then.
So tired of the lies and manufactured naratives.
As an outsider, the whole thing seems like a planned chemical weapons attack.
Yup.
With the commensurate lack of response to rectify from the government.
.
Wow.
I am reading the crew that was going to investigate were all killed in a plane crash.
Yet, they got a replacement crew in, did the investigation, and have a report, now . . .?
That was for the explosion at the metal factory.
Not for the train.
You mixed them up.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/arkansas-firm-identifies-executives-dead-plane-crash
.
Mea culpa.
So many chemical fires, so little concern for the after effects . . .
Indeed.
The group killed in the plane crash were the people who did testing for the railroad. They were heading back to Ohio to do the same for another enviro impact incident… Many say they always favor the companies positions… I guess not anymore.
.
It occurs to me that a plane crash is under the purview of a Transportation Secretary, as well as a train derailment . . .
Everyday life has become a non-stop episode of “The Twilight Zone”.
But with Trump, everything was so normal: jobs, money, trade deals that didn’t screw America and favor every other country, and no wars.
They could have blamed it on climate change and I wouldnt be the least surprised.
This is only the PRELIMINARY Report … SMH
Uh Oh Watch Out
perfect
My chuckle for the day
Why am I laughing?
‘Cuz we’ve too many tears.
Well, laughter of the absurd has its therapeutic qualities 😉
Thank you for the needed laugh … the view will report this as fact.
ROFLOL!!!!
I hope our real POTUS sees that!
I bet it is that Emily Kohrs who’s the eyewitness.
How come white dudes can’t be in charge of stuff anymore? Jennifer seems as trustworthy as Samanta Power or Susan Rice.
“Where da white dudes at?” — a famous line uttered by the actress playing the part of Karine Jean-Pierre peaking out from behind a rock at the crash site in the movie “Blazing Trains.”
She was a Trump appointee. But that again does not mean much. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. I think the rail car owner is the one responsible for this.
There were 3 clear warning about the overheated wheel bearing. It was reported that the “hot box” was glowing red. Somebody in charge along with someone who was supposed to be looking for these kinds of problems seriously screwed up. I don’t care what NTSB says.
This is what’s wrong with the US these days. The people that know everything are sitting around commenting on the internet while the people who don’t know anything hold all the important jobs. Oh well…
Absolutely correct.
Because we retired … or … were retired.
Replaced with techie wizards – who can only make a decision – if the decision can be found on the internet.
They were notified but the level of the first 2 were not excessive. Ever have a “check engine” light come on in your car? Did you pull over and stop? Only to find out the oxygen sensor detected a problem and you continued to drive with the light on? That’s what a defect detector does. Notifies there is an issue and they responded when it got critical.
“Just put some tape over that warning light.” — Click and Clack, the Tappet brothers.
They did not respond when it got critical.
They responded when the train company’s rules said it was critical.
Obviously, they need to be changed.
Well if your axle is glowing red don’t you think a fire will result? Is there anything that will fix that if you don’t stop and check it out?
That’s the problem- clearly the level of normal is set wrong. If it’s glowing red it’s a problem.
This is from 2/16:
A Department for Transportation spokesperson said that “…. the rule that was rescinded under the Trump administration would not have applied to the train in question,”
https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-east-palestine-residents-absurd-blame-donald-trump-train-derailment-1781696
What I really wanted to know is, why the EPA conducted the “controlled burn”?
Are people letting the EPA off the hook?
It wasn’t a ‘controlled burn’. A ‘controlled burn’ is done in a place where the fuel and oxygen are monitored. A ‘controlled burn’ WAS NOT what happened in East Palestine. They wanted to destroy what was there. Why wasn’t the vinyl chloride pumped into other tanks? They had to drill a hole in at least one of the tanks for the chemical to be released into the trench/pit for burning, which was one of the worst things to do.
Because “controlled” is the only way the government works. Such as, controlled genocide via the FrankenVaxx, food supply disruption & sabotage, food source elimination, water supply poisoning, increased chemtrail distribution, etc etc etc.
Another biden regime agency lie.
She said the NTSB, so far, hasn’t identified any operational issues with the defect detectors or railroad tracks.
A defect detector that has 2 sensors should have picked up the hot axle.
If it didn’t is was a defective defect detector.
This is similar to not detecting a defect with joe biden during his checkup.
The doc says he has found no defects in joe biden and he passed his physical.
Physical consisted of jacking his jaws about himself for half and hour.
Everybody needs to watch this episode of the Benny Show. He has environmental scientists as guests and what they are saying is really bad.
https://rumble.com/v2aoqi4-scientists-testing-toxic-ohio-water-and-air-sound-alarm-get-out-now-no-one-.html
Everyone should watch. Thanks for sharing.
aw, hell, I’d hoped it’d be Benny Hill
So far, the response from the goobermint looks like a Benny Hill show.
My mind went there immediately.
Yeah, that was my first thought too but I knew that the died long ago. This administration seems to be desperately trying to copy Benny tho…. if you listen carefully during pressers….. <yakety sax is playing>….
Alfred Hawthorne “Benny” Hill (21 January 1924 – 20 April 1992) was an English comedian, actor, singer and writer. He is remembered for his television programme The Benny Hill Show, an amalgam of slapstick, burlesque and double entendre in a format that included live comedy and filmed segments, with Hill at the focus of almost every segment.
Excellent! Experts who care is a rarity these days.
They derailed a train carrying perhaps the worst chemical cargo possible and then detonated every single car carrying that substance, right in the middle of the most prime farm land in the country. That’s clear & obvious an act of war waged on the U.S. by the government. Clearly…the worst enemy of the USA is it’s own government. Stolen elections have consequences…and this is proof. This “weather system” is in fact the worst toxic waste known to man…put into the sky by the United States government. God help us all…….
.
There are reports of some tanker cars just hanging out on the tracks in the prime California farmland right now, also . . .
Weather has been controlled since the ’60’s; some say 1947…right after Operation Paperclip? Who is running our government?
True. I have a document that I wish I could post, that clearly explains the catastrophe that the nano-particles of aluminum, and barium cause to soils – the last estimate of tons of [articulate is 44 million tons globally. Being an old Mil. Forensic analyst, checked and the number is close to correct.
Have other material as well:https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/
This hits close to home. Irving Langmuir, researcher at General Electric Schenectady performed a cloudy seeding experiment over Mt. Greylock in the 1940s
My Dad started as a tool maker at GE Schenectady and I was born there in the 60s.
We moved to the Berkshires at the base of Mt. Greylock in the late 60s.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/09/weather-wars-cloud-seeding/538392/
There are approximately 1500 farms in Ohio…..Calving season is due to start soon. Prime pasture and crop land contaminated.
I’m pretty sure I read … and now can’t find … that the government can seize land impacted by an environmental event … maybe someone here has this info.
I had turn this woman off. All was missing for me, as long as I could watch, were the violins playing in the background. I’m thinking more that the music in the background should have been Jethro Tull “Jesus Save Me.”
Talk about being caught with your underwear down.
That deserves a Hymn 43 …
When Lyrics HAD MEANING and MUSICIANS PLAYED…
NOT Sample Previous Works !
And those are NOT anti-Christian lyrics … more like anti Pharisee lyrics
Sounds of the Wood were one of the first Albums I bought.
Songs From The Wood.
This is the outcome of diversity and equity brought to you by the commie scum burning our country down at a very rapid pace. Scratch just a little and I’m sure you’ll find unqualified people at the helm.
Do we know anything about the train crew yet? Names, years of service, service records? Or will this be like learning who Ashley Babbitt’s shooter was?
No one was at fault in such a horrible, preventable disaster. We just need to ‘build back better.’
Sure….
She sounds competent. Should be Buttigieg’s replacement.
Did you mean “ButtPlugs” replacement?
Last week he was castigating white construction workers
This week he’s playing one on TV
Why isn’t he bemoaning the lack of POC train wreck clean up workers? Ohhhhh … because that’s DANGEROUS work, and requires constant licensing and certifications ? Best assign those BIPOC workers to high paid shovel-leaning jobs?
RDBAEN
dunno that one, GreyRock
Red Diaper Baby Alfred E Neumann.
Can’t Trump picked her.
She’s scary
She’s a woman! Wait. Sorry. That was a transphobic statement. She’s a “fronthole”
I’m more interested in the decision to breach the tankers, if that did in fact happen, and to start a controlled burn, which most certainly did.
It was actually an “un-controlled” burn. A controlled burn is when you control the parameters of the fire to get complete combustion. This was a planned un-controlled burn, they just dumped it out and let it rip.
.
Yes.
The accident was tragic, but not the tragedy.
The tragedy is that people were paid for their stupid decisions . . .
I read s short phrase elsewhere that “rising temperatures” in the cars prompted fears that they’d blow (explode)
Here’s an early Feb 6 account of the decision and reasoning … actually, no reasoning is given, just says “in danger of exploding”
Crews release toxic chemicals from derailed tankers in Ohio
Crews in Ohio have released toxic chemicals from five cars of a derailed train near the Pennsylvania state line to reduce the threat of an explosion
EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (AP) — Crews released toxic chemicals into the air from five derailed tanker cars that were in danger of exploding Monday and began burning it after warning residents near the Ohio-Pennsylvania state line to leave immediately or face the possibility of death.
here’s an account that cites observed rising temperatures in a car … most other accounts simply say “in danger of exploding” – that appears to be an official statement that was let out to the press
Forced evacuations began Sunday night in East Palestine after authorities became alarmed that the rail cars could explode after a “drastic temperature change” was observed in a rail car.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/national-guard-activated-town-derailment-smolders-96921589
so – apparently – they observed rising temperature in a tanker (there WAS already a fire from one of the cars, maybe the hot-axle with a cargo of plastic beads, I read)
so they feared a catastrophic explosion
so they decided to breach the tanker cars into that trench and do a controlled burn
couldn’t be because they just wanted to get rid of the product instead of recovering it and transporting it away, I guess
I haven’t read the NTSB release yet, is all of this explained more clearly there?
couple more snippets
“The wheel bearing that failed was on a railcar with a load of plastic pellets
“The hot axle connected to the wheel bearing combined with the plastic pellets to start the initial fire that accompanied the derailment.”
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2361101-ohio-train-derailment-investigators-outline-facts-of-the-accident/
How is there any other way to infer that this is another in a long line of gaslighting, in our faces, blatant, broadside actsof war at of war and genocide on the American people?
Common sense would be to transfer it, was there mitigating circumstances? I still don’t know who gave the order to light it up.
couple comments upthread
there’s an account that they were monitoring internal temperature or pressure in the tankers and one made them fear there’d be a catastrophic explosion
I’d like to see a fuller account of that, either in the NTSB release or an early news account
Controlled burn, they say?
They were going to drain it, into ditches?
A liquid with a boiling point of 8F and oxidizes exothermically in air.
Like pouring 400 metric tons of propane out, onto the ground? (Yeah, no)
And then ignite it?
Controlled, like? (OMG that would be spectacular)
I mean, that’s dubious sounding at best and I’m going to go search YouTube for what it might look like. Technically exactly the same as the BLEVE they “wanted to avoid.
Make it make sense!! 😉
What’s with Pete Buttheads press secretary telling people to turn off their camera in order for her to answer questions????
and him photographing a journalist?
As usual… nothing to see here, Folks. They have washed their hands and are innocent. Pontius Pilate lives on.
Anyone ever looked at Dominion logo? Changing the way you vote! There is a red ballot going in and a blue one coming out! Just saw this! Goodness!
No there isn’t. Please provide proof of this logo.
“It was Trump’s fault!” — Pothole Pete
Out: Trump Derangement Syndrome.
In: Trump Derailment Syndrome.
Bloody BRILLIANT !!
Every day one affected by Trump Derangement Syndrome has a meltdown because of their response to President Donald John Trump is a good day.
They are starting up the Wildlands Project again. Look at a map—they want that land—particularly the Amish land—for an animal corridor. Doing in CA too. But this time, many know their tricks!
I keep saying it everywhere I can….Calving season starts soon.
I read somewhere that the half life of dioxin, in the ground covered by a couple of inches of soil….is 75-100 years, in the human body, 7-11 years.
Loosely defined, half life is the the time a substance in the body takes to degrade by half. Dioxins are a by product, per what I read, of burning vinyl chloride.
According to a quick googleedeegoo, there are 1550 dairy farms in Ohio.
There are 29,000 in the US.
Only one in Alaska…per 2018 data (USDA).
Holsteins produce the most milk.
… a push for “Oat milk”, “Almond Milk” or “Soy milk”.
In the EU they must call themselves “plant based drinks”….
https://www.haelen.com.au/blog/the-truth-about-plant-based-milks-what-is-actually-in-them/
Or, healthy? Not so much.
https://www.dherbs.com/articles/what-ingredients-to-avoid-when-you-buy-plant-based-milks/
Anyone see the dots?
Sundance, Is it a rail car with plastic pallets or pellets?
Pellets…TY, it’s been fixed.
In the Amish area, or, near San Francisco?
says pellets and pallets but only pellets would fit in those cylindrical containers.
Here is a worthwhile video to watch:
So the train passed 3 hot box sensors placed every 10 miles, and only at the very LAST sensor was anything reported amiss. The temperature spiked rather quickly between the last two sensors, and by this man’s explanation … the fire was so bad at that time that the wheel fire burned thru the air brake lines at virtually the same time as the sensor alarmed … hence the catastrophic emergency braking.
I don’t understand how the engines could slowly brake to a nice comfy stop … while 23 cars back … an emergency braking has derailed and scattered train cars everywhere.
And there are details without explanation or context about the hotbox detectors. The temperature of the axle was steadily increasing from 3 detectors back. Was that “normal”? The second temperature sensor warning warranted a train stop … so why didn’t the braking begin 10 miles prior? How long had the train been moving when it passed the first hatbox detector and the temp was only 30+/- deg. F above ambient? What is a NORMAL axle temp above ambient? What is a normal RISE in temp between hotbox detectors.
Yeah … there are a LOT of details MISSING from this “Preliminary” Report … details that are common knowledge and could be given the public. But they are being strategically, it seems, withheld. Now where is that suspicious cat?
Hmmm…wheel bearings, their sensors, hot box detectors, electronics…etc…Made in China?
Or….
About that “chip” shortage of a ways back?
Preventative maintenance? That is only, IMHO, the start of the fluster cluck of failures, brought to you by the full faith and credit of the US government/s.
Outstanding review.
When there is video of the fire going on under the train prior to the first of three hot box detectors, and the sensor shows a negligible ambient air difference, the “detector” is obviously malfunctioning.
Accidentally if just one misreports but we have two. Does Norfolk Southern see the data before it goes out to the reports? Our employment data is spiked by “Seasonal Adjustments”. Are “Temperate Adjustments” possible in the data before you have a hard failure?
What failed on the wheel bearing? “Wheel bearing failure” sounds vague. Did they forget to lubricate it? Did it break apart ? Something else?
Not that I ever worked on a train…but…. for wheel bearings on cars, trucks and forklifts, the inner seal fails (prematurely) when debris gets caught in it (can happen to any seal anywhere) plastic bags/wrap being the most common get wrapped around it, seal fails and starts leaking out grease (centrifugally mind you), fail time depends on how bad seal was damaged hopefully scheduled maintenance did not just get done as in this case… it didn’t last til the next period of inspection.
Wonder if that train car went thru all the Amazon packaging in CA that was stolen & left on the tracks….. lots of bubble wrap lying on train tracks…….
The longer it is undetected, the more stuff has to be replaced when the car is repaired.
Do you know how a journal bearing works?
NTSB investigators say bearing failure. There is also a story failure.
2 weeks before the train derailment, the CDC removes the profile for vinyl chloride.
1 week before Ohio train derailment.
Local Farmer Sounds the Alarm: asking why did East Palestine Launch ‘MyID’ Emergency Service to Surveil Biometrics.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/local-farmer-sounds-the-alarm-why-did-east-palestine-launch-myid-emergency-service-to-surveil-biometrics-1-week-before-ohio-train-derailment/ebruary 19, 2023 1:53 pm by Alicia Powe
Don’t forget the Netflix movie.
Nothing wrong?
Over 43,000 aquatic animals estimated dead after Ohio train derailment
https://www.axios.com/2023/02/24/ohio-train-derailment-animals-killed-water
too many coincidences….
like the creepy obama run Netflix movie “white noise” that now seems like a script for real life rather than fiction
my gut says this was a false flag accident, too many other spills and such have happened since E.P OH
and no one is even mentioning them at all… weird
so many things since the clintons are just creepily evil and seem planned not coincidence dental.
Was this near the Ohio River? I have a feeling this is about water. OH will need 5M gallons a day & treatment daily for toxins when chip plant moves in. Either they are clearing land for water treatment plant or water being toxicated (as to not blame future plant) . Think 🤔
And somewhere, Cincinnati and Northern KY, stopped using said water, shutting its flow to their city, and reopened it 4 days ago.
I never heard if Cincinnati was testing for dioxins nor if they are testing the silt – since it appears, from the way the creeks in East Palestine have responded to rocks being thrown in, that the chemicals are contained in the silt until disturbed.
The Ohio is a tributary to the Mississippi.
First, we should all be offering sincerest prayers for those investigators that performed the wreckage inspection and the initial response. The outlook for them may be dismal.
Next, it is plausible that the systems functioned, the crew acted properly, yet the train still wrecked. Maintenance and the operability of the sensor equipment are, of course, at question. The kinetic energies involved in a train are stupendous.
Due to the nature of the accident, we will never be sure if there was a fault in the track.
A Professional Engineer with very relevant expertise offered here a few days ago a number of questions regarding the pressure monitoring in the car that was deliberately burned off. It looks bad to me also.
In aviation you are taught that accidents usually don’t have one cause, but are generally the culmination of several smaller factors.
My son and I were on a tourist train that wrecked a few years ago, of all places, at the K25 plant in Oak Ridge. The cause was never determined. My son later became and was until recently the product engineer for the valves that were probably on the wrecked train cars in East Palestine. The power of a train wreck can not be withstood.
However, the nuclear power industry had developed cars for shipping spent fuel that could have survived this accident.
To use cars of that weight and capability on the scale necessary to carry the vast amount of dangerous cargo required for the operation of this country is mind boggling. I suspect a speed limit on trains with volatile cargo is coming, and it may be very detrimental to the economy.
I know I didn’t solve anything with this comment, but hope it enhances discussion.
This was the old mainline of the Pennsylvania Railroad between Philly and Chicago. Thus it would have all the modern bells and whistles of quality in rail and equipment. Not all rails are equal. Mainlines are normally monitored the most. Were corners cut to save a few bucks? Quite often railroads do not own the cars! A specialty car is often owned by the company that ships the product.
There’s gotta be a better way to transport these materials. Otherwise, this is gonna keep happening all across the country. I know it’s hard to believe, but one of the things that’s always surprised me is that planes have a better track record than trains — at least when it comes to passengers. Cargo on the other hand, is another issue.
They are called pipelines. You know, like the big one Sloe Joe cancelled on Day One.
No human error? Give me a break. The train was on fire with sparks blasting out from the wheels over 20 miles from where it de-railed. Hot boxes should have been going off all along its route.
No Jenifer Homnedy and NTSB It wasn’t human error. It was total ignorance and negligence. The S in NTSB stands for SAEFTY. Not sleeping.
Vid in story below.
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/east-palestine-train-derailment/what-appears-to-be-an-overheated-wheel-bearing-seen-moments-before-east-palestine-train-derailment-ntsb-says
EDIT***
Also found this
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says
Wasn’t the train on fire for 40 minutes before derailment? And no one is at fault? WTH?
“… passed by three wayside detectors prior to the derailment that led to a toxic chemical spill from multiple train cars.
“Two of the three detectors recorded the rising temperatures of the overheating wheel bearing, but only the third detector in East Palestine, Ohio, recorded a temperature high enough to trigger a warning to the train crew.
“… the temperature increased by 65°F (36°C) between the first and second wayside detectors but no warning or information was sent to the train crew.
“Only the third detector located near the East Palestine derailment site sent a warning to the train crew after recording a temperature that was more than 253°F (122°C) above ambient temperature.
“Norfolk Southern typically requires train crews to stop and inspect warm wheel bearings if their temperatures are between 170 and 200°F (76-93°C).
“Railcars with wheel bearing temperatures beyond that threshold are supposed to be separated from the train and put aside in rail sidings that branch off from the main track.
“This one appears to have gone about 30 miles before failure, which was plenty of time to set the car out at a siding,” says Quimby.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2361101-ohio-train-derailment-investigators-outline-facts-of-the-accident/
The challenge is what was burning on those videos. There is only a metal shaft and a bearing. Hot metal causing a fire doesn’t burn at low temps. Its not like a grass or wood fire. Metal was getting hot enough to throw flames that’s welding temps 800 plus degrees not 180 degrees. For 30 miles over 2 previous hot box detectors this train was welding its way down the tracks.
Somehow the data is bogus because the wreak is the testimony. Is the data sifted to prevent “unnecessary” shutdowns ? How can 2 detectors come up with bogus data?
Have y’all seen this article? Claims derailed chemical was actually “vinylidene chloride” and was part of a shipment heading to Ukraine to be used in a chemical weapon false flag attack on Poland and Ukraine, in order to frame Russia and force NATO to declare war in retaliation.
The chemistry is beyond me, so I’m not sure what to make of it, but it claims to be written by an organic chemist.
Can anyone give an educated opinion?
-thx
o7
https://rense.com/general97/chemical-weaponry-destined-for-ukraine-ignited-in-east-palestine.php
https://archive.ph/f2KpW
Whether I believe all of this or not … it raises a very simple and obvious question that … in the interest of FULL TRANSPARENCY!!! … we should be told – where did this train originate, and what was its final destination. And when I say “train” … I mean the highly toxic tank cars, because I know different cars have different destinations as trains are reorganized along its path of travel.
If this information is not forthcoming … then I will know our government is LYING (thru omission) to coverup nefarious business.
.
Incredible.
God Help us.
I saw this too. The key reported fact to verify is the statement that phosgene was found in the air after the incident. Can anyone here corroborate that?
The guys chemistry is wrong. He list vinylidene dichloride but shows the chemical formula for vinyl chloride.
Here is the deal. Vinyl chloride has a boiling point of 8 degrees F. In other words above 8 degrees vinyl chloride vaporizes and in a gaseous state it become very dangerous in terms of igniting. IMO the HAZMAT crew did the right thing by burning the vinyl chloride in place. The primary byproduct of vinyl chloride combustion is HCl and yes when HCl mixes with water it becomes hydrochloric acid. I know that sounds terrible and it is not ideal but HCl over a sufficiently large area is not harmful (can be very dangerous in high concentrations). (We use HCl to adjust the pH in swimming pools.) The minor byproducts of vinyl chloride combustion is phosgene and other incomplete combustion byproducts. Phosgene is extremely dangerous but it is a minor byproduct of vinyl chloride combustion. If phosgene were the primary byproduct of vinyl chloride combustion it would have likely killed many people in the area. Again I understand why the HAZMAT crew burned the vinyl chloride at the time…it was the best option.
With that said, FEMA should have been on site almost immediately offering assistance to East Palestine residence in terms of temporary shelter and food. That is were the biggest failure occurred IMO. Thank God for people like President Trump who used his political influence to light a fire under the Biden administration ass to help these people.
Thank you!!!
President Trump Provides Timeline of Biden and Buttigieg Activities Past 20 Days While Ignoring East Palestine, Ohio
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/president-trump-provides-timeline-of-biden-and-buttigieg-activities-past-20-days-while-ignoring-east-palestine-ohio/
Ouch! How much do we pay this effeminate excuse of a man?
IS This ” Talking Head ” an ENGINEER ? NO
BA from Penn St; working on Her MA from Clemson in Master of Transportation Safety Administration
AFL – CIO -> check
government relations manager -> Check, for American Iron and Steel Institute
Democrat Staffer for United States House Transportation Subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines, and Hazardous Materials ->
CHECK
SHAME ON PDJT for placing Her on the Board –> BIT U.S. in the A$$ SIR !
qrw
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/19/president-biden-announces-his-intent-to-nominate-jennifer-homendy-for-chair-of-the-national-transportation-safety-board/
https://www.ntsb.gov/about/board/Pages/Jennifer-Homendy.aspx#board_member_biography
Is she related to McConnell … McConnell only approved RINOS from his RINO-APPROVAL List
This is the type of origin and cause report I have seen before, when the personnel preparing the report are either unqualified (e.g. a police fatality report that plotted the initial point of contact 1.4 miles from the intersection where the collision occurred) or manifestly unwilling / uncurious to seek out the actual chain of events, although in this case there may be the additional factor of lack of preservation of evidence (either accidental or intentional). The attorneys take it from here.
And that is presuming we have been told of everything that was on the train, and that it was not also transporting anything under a government contract that has not been disclosed.
So, other than Precision Scheduled Railroading PSR, nothing the railroad did was amiss.
That of course still leaves the response of the railroad and the government to the actual spill.
I don’t think Norfolk Southern or Checkbox Pete can weasel their way out of this just yet.
Temperature detectors cost something like 30 cents apiece, these days … I’m amazed that rail cars don’t measure their own axle temperatures, constantly. It seems to me that it would cost a few bucks a car to do this, and if it stopped just one derailment the payoff would be substantial (not to mention in insurance savings, too).
They are forcing talking refrigerators down our throats (I’d like to meet the corporate a-holes who came up with that stuff) and have mandated all manner of sensory crap on our cars but they can only test the axle temperatures of rail cars in trains carrying toxic chemicals every 20 miles??
Something is way off, here.
My dad worked for the Western Pacific (Feather River Route) and then the UP after it subsumed the WP and other smaller companies. He was a track supervisor for many years. He became an expert concerning derailment and we had a lot of them. It doesn’t take much to derail a train especially in that terrain and those conditions.
Ohio was a big derailment. 38 cars is a lot. Complicated by the nature of the cargo, it’s horrendous. How these government officials try to downplay the circumstances especially after the burn is really incredible. The derailment is bad enough but now it’s a true ecological disaster directly affecting humans and every other living thing within range.
I notice the railroad company isn’t saying much. My guess is they downplayed this in an attempt to avoid the epa and also made the decision to burn in an attempt to get it all going again. There is a lot of pressure to get it moving.. Rail companies run on really tight margins. These guys have probably bankrupted themselves.
HOWEVER that doesn’t excuse the administration’s lack of action. The democrats invented the epa and generally they use it to wield power o n whoever /whatever/ wherever they can. All of a sudden they’re so shy. I call bs. Since this incident became a true ecological nightmare they have abdicated their responsibilities continually. Criminally. They are going to try to foisr every bit of this on the rail co. But that dog won’t hunt. I know I’m not supposed to hate…but they have no regard for human life except when it directly concerns them. Pure evil.
The EPA was Nixon’s doing.
There ya go. Thanks u for clarifying.
The EPA was a needed agency in 1970 when lazy, sloppy, profiteering capitalism dumped flammable materials into the Cuyahoga river and set it on fire … multiple times!!! Safeguarding the environment … such as safely shipping highly toxic chemicals and not BURNING them in the middle of a small community of HUMANS and other living organisms!!! is exactly why the EPA is a needed agency. Sadly, the EPA has become a politicized leftist agency that has lost its way, by doing anti-scientific things such as declaring co2 an “endangering” atmospheric gas.
Now the Democrats DID invent FOIA (with a Republican co-sponsor, as I recall) … the Freedom of Information Act. It was a Law to provide FULL TRANSPARENCY of our government actions and members. But now … Democrats hide secret servers in their basements, bleach bit their hard drives, smash their phones, or simply have some “security” agency redact all the critical information. And you can bet that multiple phones, text messages, emails, and servers will be destroyed before anyone subpoenas the critical information associated with this intentional TOXIC dump of deadly chemicals on poor white people.
After hearing the initial reports of how they drove the train 20 miles after the axel was on fire– before braking near a diesel storage facility (supposedly), I was curious on usual procedures.
So I asked my stepdad who was a RR engineer (drove freight trains for 34 years). He retired early from 8 or so years ago.
I sent him the summary video SD posted awhile back for reference (he doesn’t watch the News).
For anyone interested, these are his copied text replies, & noted for clarification.
“Stopping a train…is that when it derailed…when they applied the train brakes?
20 miles? I’d of stopped immediately, (trying not to block any crossings), if I could. Sounds like the crew will be looking for new jobs…”
[On having multiple cars of toxic chemicals & axle on fire- immediate stop?]
“I’d say so…
You wring off a wheel, and you get a derailment…
How long had the crew worked on the RR?
It sounds like that might be part of the problem…”
[? On how long & far to stop]
“Too many variables…if it was me, I’d try to stop without using the train brakes until the final stop….so, depending on your speed, tonnage, and how big a hurry you were in…at the most, with a mixed freight like was in the video, 1 and a half miles. That is purely speculative though. If you just put the train in emergency…a mile maybe”
“Speed and tonnage would be the biggest variables…then grade, (up hill…down hill)…
I can’t believe the dispatcher would let a train go 20 miles, knowing it had an axle on fire… probably…the crew had very little experience…sad to say.”
[On clarifying if dispatcher gets alerted to sensors, or just engine crew]
“Well…I’m assuming someone called the RR
The defect detectors alert the crew…who should then notify the dispatcher, and stop the train..
📌 Rules wise, if a defect detector was how they got alerted to a problem, then they should of stopped immediately.
If someone called the RR, then the dispatcher would of been alerted first.”
“The conductor, after the engineer stops the train, would need to walk back and see what’s going on. He or She would have a train profile, showing what’s in his train, and where.
Then you’d have company officials, and trained in hazmat, firefighters on scene. After that, it’s out of the crews hands.”
“But dragging a train twenty miles??? What the f were they thinking?!
Their careers are over…and rightly so.”
Thanks for that. I’m not stupid, and know that a train doesn’t stop in 40ft. from 45mph … but 10miles!? 20miles!? NFW … the NTSB spokes front hole is LYING by omission and commission. We aren’t being given the most BASIC facts of this derailment. Either the hotbox detectors failed to SEND (not just record) data to dispatch AND the Engineer as should be … or … the Engineer and crew ignored or never heard/saw the warning (distracted driving for God knows what reason).
There is NO WAY that train should have been traveling THAT FAR and THAT LONG with burning axles!!! The NTSB spokes front hole said NOTHING to explain that.
And this is their “Preliminary” Finding … which has come out rather quickly for the usual government timeline … makes me suspicious this is meant to “satisfy” and deflect the burning questions (sorry) about the derailment and incineration of this train. And I have my doubts that the NTSB will ever publish their FINAL Findings in this case.
Manmade disaster + party affiliation of current White House administration = determination of responsible party
It’s never due to democrat policies.
But its Trump Fault he deregulated train braking…Oh wait…What,
it wasn;t the brakes. well so what it is still Trump fault. just well
because he is Trump…
IT trump fault so that is why OUR response is so bad.. well cuz it
Trump fault….it is…honest…now go ahead and drink the water
it is safe..Honest..we promise….
That about sums up the whole thing..No other explanations needed..
Trump derailment syndrome
Every federal alphabet agency has become politicized so who can believe any of them. How is it that at least one of the train cars was on fire for 40 min prior to the derailment and this is recorded by surveillance video.
This is just too convenient or typical of the federal government today.
The hotbox data recorders have now gone missing and are not available for third party inspection. I can see THAT coming …
If there was no human error, then why was the train on fire for more than twenty minutes while moving?
Would it have been better to stop the train earlier?
I really resented the faux outrage by Ms. Homendy in the news conference. Save it for your Hollywood debut. This should have been a calm dispassionate report on what happened. They are hiding the fact that there was no need to set the tank cars containing vinyl chloride and that decision needs to be explored in detail because that is what caused the massive contamination of the area. It was an uncontrolled burn that ended up spewing toxic compounds far and wide.