A major win for parents and school choice today in a 6-3 decision from the Supreme Court [pdf Ruling Here]. The high court ruled that Maine violated the Constitution by refusing to make public funds available for students to attend faith-based schools. The ruling is broad and makes it clear when any state and/or local government choose to subsidize private schools or provide vouchers for school choice, they must allow families pay for religious schools.
Teachers’ unions, left-wing indoctrination institutions and the media are not happy with the Supreme Court decision. The ruling now makes it possible for state or local school vouchers to be used for private, faith-based schools. Those schools also have religious exemptions on the types of material and educators they allow in their education programs.
In the bigger picture the court has again affirmed ‘freedom of religion‘ not ‘freedom from religion‘. Parents who wish their children to receive a moral and virtuous education should not be blocked by state and local politicians who promote sexualization of children, immoral conduct and alternative lifestyles for kids. SCOTUS BLOG has background details including the dissent:
SCOTUS BLOG: – […] The dispute before the court in Carson v. Makin began as a challenge to the system that Maine uses to provide a free public education to school-aged children. In some of the state’s rural and sparsely populated areas, school districts opt not to run their own secondary schools. Instead, they choose one of two options: sending students to other public or private schools that the district designates, or paying tuition at the public or private school that each student selects. But in the latter case, state law allows government funds to be used only at schools that are nonsectarian – that is, schools that do not provide religious instruction.
Two Maine families went to court, arguing that the exclusion of schools that provide religious instruction violates the First Amendment’s free exercise clause. On Tuesday, the justices agreed. Roberts suggested that the court’s decision was an “unremarkable” application of prior decisions in two other recent cases (both of which Roberts wrote): Trinity Lutheran Church v. Comer, in which the justices ruled that Missouri could not exclude a church from a program to provide grants to non-profits to install playgrounds made from recycled tires, and Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue, holding that if states opt to subsidize private education, they cannot exclude private schools from receiving those funds simply because they are religious.
In this case, Roberts explained, Maine pays tuition for some students to attend private schools, as “long as the schools are not religious.” “That,” Roberts stressed, “is discrimination against religion.” It does not matter, Roberts continued, that the Maine program was intended to provide students with the equivalent of a free public education, which is secular. The focus of the program, Roberts reasoned, is providing a benefit – tuition to attend a public or private school – rather than providing the equivalent of the education that students would receive in public schools. Indeed, Roberts observed, private schools that are eligible for the tuition benefit are not required to use the same curriculum as public schools, or even to use certified teachers. He suggested that the state’s argument was circular: “Saying that Maine offers a benefit limited to private secular education is just another way of saying that Maine does not extend tuition assistance payments to parents who choose to educate their children at religious schools.”
Roberts similarly rejected the state’s argument that the tuition-assistance program does not violate the Constitution because it only bars benefits from going to schools that provide religious instruction. Although Trinity Lutheran and Espinoza focused on organizations’ religious status (rather than on whether the organizations would be using government funds for religious purposes), those rulings did not hold that states could make funding for private schools hinge on whether the schools provide religious instruction, Roberts explained. To the contrary, Roberts indicated, there is no real distinction between a school’s religious status and its use of funds for religious purposes.
Roberts also dismissed any suggestion that Tuesday’s ruling would require the state to fund religious education. Maine has other options to eliminate its need to fund private schools, Roberts noted: It could, for example, create more public schools or improve transportation to public schools. But having chosen to provide public funding for private schools, Roberts concluded, “it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious.” (read more)
Actual physical barriers are what it takes in 2022 to stop the violent left-wing democrats from attacking the Supreme Court. Think about what that reality showcases about the state of our union. There is a particular hypocrisy considering the J6 committee narrative “democracy under attack.”
I am not a religious man….although I do believe in a higher power somewhere….that is something (don’t ask me to explain that feeling….)
I am however receptive and sympathetic to any that believe ….’in something’ and they have my blessing and respect for their beliefs…… so this decision I like…….
So many do not find the need to believe, but the problem is………… they do not want anyone else to.
My experience tells me that those in the church have better morals are better educated easier to be around…and have more respect for others so this win I congratulate them for.
Well said, davewaybe.
We are all sinners!
Believers want to be better and live more Christlike in a general sense.
Non-believers want to be indulged in their worldly choices in a general sense.
there is a natural clash there. the best we can do is ask forgiveness of our sins and forgive sins of others.
I once saw a sign that said this Church is not a club for the righteous, it is a hospital for sinners. Amen to that!!!
Especially Fauci…. and the Sinners for Disease Control.
Why interject nonsense into a serious discussion? This wonderful SCOTUS decision has NOTHING to do with Fauci, COVID, or the CDC. You are simply hijacking a conversation. Take off topic posts into the Presidential thread or the daily thread as the Treehouse RULES require.
Regrettably, off-topic remarks are now a daily feature of life in the Treehouse. ☹️
Amen, Christian. And, too often, it makes MAGA-aligned patriots appear to be unserious loons who live in a conspiracy-driven imaginary world.
Counterproductive at its core.
The very FIRST comment about the Supreme Court decision today was as off topic, by your extremely narrow definition, as your comment about a comment about the 1st slightly “off topic” comment at the top of this page. Where it all begins and ends, I suppose, is left up to folks with your extremely narrow viewpoint.
“Cjzak” right below us has the answer you should abide by.
We do have conversations here and that means the topic heads down some side road detours sometimes for short spurts, but they mainly have a good thought link to the main topic. It makes the discussion more robust and leads to further information and links that put the whole story into better context. I enjoy the detours. It’s like having a real conversation with friends. Just me I guess.
Again, the Treehouse has 2 daily threads where such conversations are not only allowed but encouraged. However, not everyone wants to see every conversation become hijacked when a relatively engaging topic-based discussion would be thought-provoking and maybe even cause some people to actually earn something.
People need to respect everyone here…not just thoughts who find the Treehouse as just a place to vent and whine.
So it’s OK for you to swing the entire conversation into a lecture about rules? Why don’t YOU go to the open thread and lecture there?
Comrade Magnus has spoken this speech is not approved in this location at this time. That’s the 1st Amendment.
Albert Magnus is merely asking for the decorum that accompanies reasoned dialogue. “Stay on topic” is a forum rule. No hate sperging is another.
We are all guests here. Act civilized.
No one has a First Amendment right to violate the rules.
Self-annointed forum cops!
I love when we are all reasonable and enjoy a little humor.
Daniel’s, “Sinners for Disease Control” is a keeper.
My kids will get a kick outta that one.
I have been guilty of doing the off-topic thing a few times over the years. So maybe it makes sense that I agree with you.
On the other hand, the “off topic” person was polite, so maybe we should leave it there.
The Treehouse is full of thinkers but welcoming of those that are starting to learn to think a few moves ahead. Sometimes those of the learners (I am one albiet advanced) make comments that try to bring them into the fold; others are trolls. In my humble opinion.
Exactly.
These are trying times.
Irony a foot . What turns me off from churches is the righteous . And here the righteous are attacking for off topic . Sinners !!!!! 😆😆
Thee without sin ,cast the first stone ! 😱
Who’s demanding the death penalty, John?
What were you hoping to find in the churches—wickedness?!
I guess you can’t comprehend what I’m saying .
I’m talking about people who always want to point out your sin, as if they’re not sinners .
And they like to tell you you’ll be paying for your sin , and your father’s , ya know , the religious freak 🤔
With ya on that one, John.
Same here!
Perhaps it’s not the righteous that turn you off as much as you
being unrighteous and the righteous convicts your unrighteousness.
Just a thought.
Nah, I’m fine with who I am in my imperfection. I try to walk the best path I can , and limit my sin, but I am human .
WORDMAN will be green with envy on this one….nice…and accurate.
love it.
You winnnn!
we are ALL “spiritual” as it is in our Godly composition….before we accept Christ as Our Saviour many stipulate a Supreme Being but do not fear or show obedience to Him…..this is because to do so recognizes the cosmic absolute of right and wrong and doing so CONVICTS us….if you say there is a Creator and it does not cause a change in your lifestyle or worldview then you really do not believe in His ultimate power
All people (almost) want to be better…….there are so few that spoil it for others……. but spoil it they do.
For me I will not steal from……… harm or disrespect you and……………. help you if I can…… when you need it….
If there is a ‘something ‘ when my time comes……… I hope he treats me with the same consideration…otherwise I was right all the time!
What bigoted horse pucky!
Respecting your position,…but.
Given the obvious way the Globalists are aligned with and promoting every kind of depravity, all clearly things every religion (but Satanism) clearly warns and councils against,…and given your recognition that
“those in the Church have better morals are better educated and easier to be around,..” methinks you might want to consider WHY you, despite recognising a higher power, have avoided making any kind of commitment to GOD.
Important to note, IMHO and experience, there is a big difference between being “religious” and following the teachings OF a given religion.
Religions and Churches, far too often are turned to Satans ends, by PEOPLE.
MOST athiests I have known, when explored, had one or more experiences with “religious people”, that ‘turned them off’ to religion. They focused on THE PEOPLE, and not the religion, or its teachings.
food for thought,..?
Respectfully and to your point. Jesus, Himself was “turned off” by religion.
Jesus never came to set up a religion, He came for relationship.
🙏🙏🙏
Sorry, even Jesus told His disciples to follow the Jewish laws. It is about a relationship with Him, but that relationship is within a Church Community….ALWAYS.
Christ so loved the church He died for it and its Brethren….it is His bride, is wed to him and a part of Him in the performance of His commanded mission to bring the Gospel to every living creature
Why would Jesus “set up” a religion when the Law and the Prophets already existed?
If Jesus was “turned off” by religion, why did he scrupulously observe obedience to the law?
Are you an antinomian?
Amen! The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Holy One of Israel, in His Instructions, the Bible, gave mankind ‘a way of life’ not a religion. You choose life or death.
Jesus was turned off by the traditions of men, not religion. He kept the feasts at the temple as instructed in the Torah.
When the Jews were exiled to Babylon and the first temple was destroyed, they were cut off from the temple sacrifices and rituals. Sacrifices offered anywhere else were not acceptable. When a remnant of the Jews returned to Jerusalem, the 2nd temple was built and they were able to practice their religion again complete with ritual sacrifices, tithes and offerings, and dispensation of the law.
When the Jews returned, Judea was under Persian rule. Later, the Greeks took over and sought to assimilate the Jews into Greek culture. The office of high priest was corrupted when the Greek boss agreed to sell it as a prize to a man who was not next in order of descent in the line of Aaron.
Members of the Israelite tribes were subject to a temple tax, usually 1/2 shekel, no matter where on earth they lived. Money had to be changed from foreign coinage into 1/2 shekels. The priests at the temple were the ones who determined the FX rates and thus able to inappropriately enrich themselves. Hence, the incident with the moneychangers. Worship at the temple was fine. The temple tax was fine. The grift was not fine.
For their part, the pharisees missed the mark on Deuteronomy 12:32 when they interpreted scripture to add their traditions.
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Cogently stated.
Well, he *did* come to set up a kingdom, and conditions to enter it.
Correct, John 3:5
A God of my understanding has served me and millions of others well for a very long time.
Cheers!
So God is useful to the extent that he serves your purposes ??
I was shocked and dismayed this Father’s Day when before my wife and I went to take part in communion at máss the priest said to consume the host in front of the server. Satanists have been taking the host as a part of their odd desecration Satanic ceremony.
Wow.
Always a ‘But’ eh?
I was forced into religion by a religious family and was allowed the choice if I wanted to continue when I reached 16…I declined. Although I have 4 pastors in my family …………
You are absolutely correct….I was put off…
I do not like Hypocrisy of the church or its teachers (who teach it all wrong anyway) the double standards of the Papacy.
I have however read almost every faith on this planet……and if I had to chose I am probably a Buddhist! I have a great time when a religious person comes to the door and I give them an alternative take on the bible and its meanings.
I do have a great deal of respect of any that believe…… but Me and the infinite ….I am sure will have time to discuss my views!
There are some that suggest Jesus was actually a Buddhist monk. Jesus Was a Buddhist Monk (Accounts for the ‘Missing Years’) – DNB (dailynewsbreak.org)
Some people do a lot of drugs too. Don’t the Mormons place Our Lord in North America ministering to Native Americans during those “Missing Years”?
Ahh a chance for me yet!
without God there can be NO atheism…..atheists cannot exist without a God of the universe
Nailed it again, Dutch.
I haven’t had much luck avoiding “religious people” by going to one church or another. It seems like “religious people” congregate in churches? Seriously … every single solitary time that I have been completely screwed over by a “religious person” … they are supposed reborn Christians. I consider myself a Reborn Christian and the best way for me to follow Christ is to avoid Christian churches like the plague.
On this topic of Churches, I often wondered where the phrase “right Church, wrong pew” came from. I noticed that the same people sat in the same pews every time they attended services. Elaborating a little farther, I belong to a VFW and a Legion, seems every time I go there to imbibe in an adult beverage and shoot a few games of pool or throw darts, the same people sit in the same seats all the time. When I attended a school of higher learning, the same thing occurred. Ditto for cafeterias or mess halls. I chuckle every time I see it, strange, eh? Maybe a little off topic or humor here. I always enjoy your posts BTW, thanks
The thought is people act better when they think they are being watched. This is not true as it applies to the surveillance state, but it is more true if you believe God is there and has your best interests at heart.
As they say … never take just ONE Mormon fishing with you. He’ll drink all your beer.
Its called a moral conscience …… LOL
I suppose, but I don’t need to believe someone is watching over me to be a good person! Seems like only weak people would need that.
I see it more as someone watching over his children to make sure they don’t get hurt.
We don’t see all that goes on but if we didn’t have the help from above even the strongest and best of us would never stand a chance.
The thing is, there’s no way to either prove or disprove that observation, and so, as always, it boils down to a basic truth I once heard uttered – it’s a matter of faith. One has it, or one does not.
What I believe is that neither group should denigrate the other for their belief, or perceived lack of it.
Amen! “True character is doing the right thing even when no one is watching.”
Kindred spirit!👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Thank you!
or even to use certified teachers.that speaks nonsense imho
Exactly, what could be bester than following our Constitution ( as written ) and our founding document ( The Declarition of Independence ).
.
Wishing truth well is always a win win if one believes in a creator, GOD, a small weak god or NO god.
.
Following our Constitution is a win for everyone, even if some folks don’t believe in it as written.
Our people in the USA took God out of our belief in creating this nation. My hope is they couldn’t it get off the currency we use! In the military (ASA), our motto was “In God We trust, all others we monitor.” The 7th RRFS motto was KTF (Keep The Faith). I still like to live with those principles! I bend a knee to no one except my Deity, which is the God of Abraham!
It’s a good start. I’m waiting for the ruling on the coach who chose to pray on the football field… by himself. And who was summarily fired for practicing his faith.
That decision will be the biggest tell of all the cases on Freedom OF Religion being heard this session.
Hypocrisy doesn’t work on the left. It rolls off their backs like water on a duck.
When the FBI can say Antifa is just an idea and doesn’t really exist, you must accept that facts, reason, and even written law are simply conveniences to the left. To be used when helpful, ignored when not, and always subject to whim in application.
That’s because many of them are emotionally stunted, and react to whatever their feelings are at the moment.
Their leaders are well aware of this and tap into it regularly.
It’s working for their legitimate voters. Soon, even their mules will no longer support them.
According to the FBLie the mules are just an idea, too. At least the ones that showed up at the Antifa riots.
If leftist didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have any standards at all.
Just another example of the many frauds and crimes committed by these psychos.
Evil to the core!
“Think about it.”
Thinking is certainly NOT an exercise in which we see much of the violent radically activist Left knowing how to engage…..
I do think Tucker Carlson summed up nicely “Insurrection Day 2.0” beautifully. Calling out the hypocrisy was an absolute.
When people legally pull their Children from public indoctrination centers as we did, public schools lose the funding in each and every state.
You actually want to take back your powers, this right here is certainly one way to do it. Public schools wake up real quick when money starts becoming extinct in their state finance system.
Not to do so is complicit in the destruction of the child and of the nation. These public schools are infested with evil. Get the hell OUT.
parents and other citizens now need to be elected to school boards and school taxing authorities, and pressure stte legislatures, to institute a voucher system like that in Maine, where the funding follows the parents’ choice of schools.
The teachers’ unions would need to focus on good, unbiased education, rather than propaganda and the welfare of their union officials. Or become extinct.
22 years ago I tried to get a small, private school started in a nearby area. There was some
extra land available in a neighborhood owned park. The plan was to lease or purchase a
trailer class room, and have a school for various age levels for 10-15 students.
Basically, it was the one room school house idea from the turn of the century, just in a
trailer. I had 2 problems that couldn’t get overcome.
to the next school district or next county over to escape the apartment heavy
attendance area.
Two: I couldn’t find ANY how to materials on how such a school was set up.
Instructional materials, discipline among different age groups, how to
divide down time among various ages to concentrate on others.
So, it never got off the ground. Did find out something else while I was looking
into the financial end of trying to achieve it, though.
Noticed in the local legal organ that the school board in my county was paying
fees to the county for permits and hook ups for each and every trailer classrooom
in the county. Approximately 540 at the time. It worked out to about $350 apiece.
I thought that this sounded like quite a bit of money for permits for an entity that
my taxes were supporting. Especially when my taxes were supporting the other
entity that was collecting them.
So I called up another metro county’s permits section, and asked them how much
money they were charging their schools for mobile classrooom permits.
“Nothing, it’s illegal, under Georgia’s constitution for a county or city to charge
the local school district any fees, permits”.
Tried to sic the school board of the state of Georgia on our county schools. The
person they talked to (predicatably) lied. So it went no further.
Anyway: anyone here that has access to information about how a one room schoolhouse
was run? We need TRUE neighborhood schools in this country.
Several years ago, Nevada passed an education savings account program. Parents who wanted would get $5000 per year per student to use for private schools or home schooling. This was half of the state funding per student. The other half would go to the public schools even though the student was not attending.
The ACLU and teacher unions fought this tooth and nail in the courts but lost. The law was found Constitutional and could go into effect but a modification was need to process the funding. By this time democrats were in power and refused to fund the law.
Even more reason to demand vouchers for both state and federal funding as a first step. Keep ALL the money local.
Our children are facing a monumental task of finding schools for their kids which teach, not indoctrinate. My observation is that Charter Schools are slipping more and more under the same forces that control public schools.
Our goal must be to end all Federal funding and control of education. Give it back to the counties. All the money and all the choice must lie with PARENTS.
My observation is the government has over regulated schools.
Parents have proven that Homeschooling works.
Parents are able to educate their children without a college degree.
Give us back our freedoms by giving the parents POWER.
An ‘education degree’ may be worse than no degree. Education departments are famous for not requiring students to take real courses with subject matter students. An education department teaches that 2 + 2 is not 4. Thaat math is racist. Why not take chemistry with other chemistry majors, rather than something less in the ‘education department’?
I know a woman chemical engineer, who was approached to teach HS chemistry. The school districts wanted her. But she did not have an “education degree” so kept working in industry.
crazy…
New York State eliminated the basic competency exam for teacher certification because Black and Hispanic college graduates could pass it with the minimum score!
This may seem off topic or not relevant but I will post it any way.
Over 40 years ago we had some good friends who were citizens of Sweden, a beautiful country.
At that time it was a very peaceful, stable, comfortable country to live in but our friends were seeing some things that made them very uncomfortable a streak of very liberal ideas that was starting to make its way through the whole country in the way things were changing.
One of the things they did not like was what was being taught in the countries public schools their four children attended.
The schools in Sweden were becoming more and more progressive and very un-Swedish in their teachings, very much more like communism and very very less religious.
In Sweden there was no school choice and no home schooling, so our friends spent quite a while trying to reteach their children each week, or trying to undo what was done to them at the Swedish public schools.
They did the best they could but it was a long hard road to go down and it just did not work out very well.
Now we see what has happened to Sweden, a once strong proud country that has been hollowed out, and I wonder if that would have happened if there had been more choices for the parents who did not like what the Swedish schools were teaching their children.
Especially the very religious Swedish families who had little support and no help.
The government ran right over the top of them on every thing they tried to do.
ABOLISH the Department of Education….that abomination thinks it knows better how to instruct the kids of America than their parents do
Parents need to teach their kids themselves, and find a homeschool co-op for some group teaching time. Anyone with a high school education can teach their kids. There is so much good curriculum out there, why put up with crap used in the schools. And that goes for all schools, as a lot of private and religious schools also use common core garbage.
I homeschooled mine from 4th grade on when I realized how incompetent 7/8 of the teachers were. We spent 2-3 hours a day on schoolwork and the rest of the time I worked a full time job and they did things both academic and not.
I don’t know why people think it is so hard, it’s really quite simple. The best part is you deprive the schools of funding. That means you can deprive the unions of teacher dues if you can get enough kids out of the schools. The most satisfying part is your kids get a very good education.
Be the sand in the gears.
I’ve homeschooled my kids from the outset (under a religious exemption which means I don’t report anything to the state). My eldest is now a rising senior and just received his ACT scores today, he scored a 30. We’re looking at the colleges that don’t take any federal funding (of which there are only a handful).
What the Supreme Court says and what leftists do are not the same depending on the politics.
Leftist bureaucracies and state governments will still deny funding but will use different words to justify it. To the extent any single decision is forced by lawsuit, it will be token amounts of money and driveled out as slowly as possible and accompanied by massive regulations on teaching curricula and diversity quotas on teaching staff.
In other words, as CRT is still taught in schools but officially denied, funding will still be denied but officially accepted.
Correct. Leftists never accept defeat–never.
Email from Maine AG confirms your points:
“…“I am terribly disappointed and disheartened by today’s decision,” said AG Frey. “Public education should expose children to a variety of viewpoints, promote tolerance and understanding, and prepare children for life in a diverse society. The education provided by the schools at issue here is inimical to a public education. They promote a single religion to the exclusion of all others, refuse to admit gay and transgender children, and openly discriminate in hiring teachers and staff. One school teaches children that the husband is to be the leader of the household. While parents have the right to send their children to such schools, it is disturbing that the Supreme Court found that parents also have the right to force the public to pay for an education that is fundamentally at odds with values we hold dear. I intend to explore with Governor Mills’ administration and members of the Legislature statutory amendments to address the Court’s decision and ensure that public money is not used to promote discrimination, intolerance, and bigotry.”
While the Court’s decision paves the way for religious schools to apply to receive public funds, it is not clear whether any religious schools will do so. Educational facilities that accept public funds must comply with anti-discrimination provisions of the Maine Human Rights Act, and this would require some religious schools to eliminate their current discriminatory practices….”
Public education should not be subject to this goofy dictator.
Public education should teach “reading writing and ‘rithmatic” first, and how to recognize and avoid being fooled by propaganda.
You do realize that’s not why public schools came to be in the 1850s. According to US Senator Ted Kennedy, whose office did a study decades ago, the US had a 94% literacy rate at the time public schools were instituted. They were promoted to standardize education so immigrants would become Americans. Of course Americans at that time had no problem with religion in schools, like prayer.
“The education provided by the schools at issue here is inimical to a public education.”
Theology was once known as “Queen of the Sciences” and many of our early Presidents were religiously educated.
It easy to see how we have lost control of the Constitutional Republic bequeathed to us. The Attorney General of Maine, and others like him, are openly hostile to the beliefs of our Republic’s founders.
You have made a good point HanBun.
Even though this decision is a better one or our side we can not sit back and count this as a Win and now depend on the left to abide by it.
They will not.
We must still fight long and hard and we must do this ourselves.
Our country is in such bad shape that we can not really depend on any of the Institutions to fix the problems we have.
It is up to us.
Our government schools are badly broken, to the point that any of the other government institutions can not fix them.
I do believe that the only way to clean up government schools is to break them, to bring them to their knees by removing our children from them .
To find other ways to school our children though various private schools or various home schooling.
I know families are struggling and I know some families have banded together where grandparents, uncles and aunts are helping to teach.
Some families not related by blood to each other are working to group and do a neighborhood team teaching type of effort.
They all have told me how they are amazed at how easier it is than they ever expected.
There are now so many home schooling support groups and school academic programs that can be bought or down loaded it is much easier than it was years ago.
Yes 1000x yes! While we are fighting the schools, don’t make your kids get an inferior education. Get them out and continue fighting. Since we all pay taxes whether we have kids in them or not, we all have a say.
No, they did not.
They issued a very limited ruling that the vouchers can be used at religious schools only when a district does not have a secular school.
Yes, they did.
Here is a link to the ruling:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-1088_dbfi.pdf
“Held: Maine’s “nonsectarian” requirement for otherwise generally available tuition assistance payments violates the Free Exercise Clause.”
Maine, and other States, will now have to make a choice, follow the ruling of the Supreme Court or elect to not allow any tuition voucher programs to cover the cost of education for any non-publicly financed school.
You have a lawyers selective way of reading … no where did the court say anything in your comment.
You are citing the potential remedies listed by Justice Roberts to an objection raised by the State of Maine, as the ruling.
…or you are inferring this only applies if a public school is not available.
This case clearly centers on the State offering funds for private schooling period and had zero discussion on availability.
“… zero discussion on availability.”
But wait! Attorney Dave discussed “availability” which is a clear indication that the court had this feature hid among their emanations and penumbras.
With the proper incantation, the right lawyer may yet summon it forth.
True, but all that means is that we’re still a ways from being a country in which the state will fund religious education at the mere request of parents and/or children. Private schools remain private for the most part.
.
In this case, the benefit went to the people who are permitted to spend it as they like, because government public school was not available and was not an option.
I don’t want the government directly funding “religious” schools — not when that could include satanist schools, Muslim schools, etc. Government has to stay out of this.
In this case, because there were no secondary public schools, the government was not funding the schools, but, rather, giving the students money to go to a private school.
In other words, there was no government action promoting religion. Government can neither further religion nor hinder it.
Case is no different from say, government gives out welfare or social security checks and makes a rule that anyone receiving a government check may not spend any of the money on any church or religious activity. No can do.
.
.
… only when the district does not have a PUBLIC school and instead gives residents vouchers for their kids to attend a private school of their choice.
.
“Maine’s program cannot survive strict scrutiny. A neutral benefit
program in which public funds flow to religious organizations through
the independent choices of private benefit recipients does not offend
the Establishment Clause.”
This is surprisingly broad for a “limited ruling”.
Do you mean to suggest that the ruling is “limited” to the Establishment Clause?
In the aftermath of Uvalde, it’s time for states to provide vouchers and let parents decide. Private schools can choose to focus on security and win in the marketplace.
My children attended a private Christian school and about 8 years ago the school decided to fence the grounds and have a guard house at the only entrance staffed by off duty sheriff’s from the local county. They also decided t0 provide tuition assistance to the children of law enforcement officers.
Add in the woke BS and groomers in the public schools and this is a very winning hand for state legislators.
My daughters attended a public high school with an enrollment close to 4000. It served a population from mostly middle to high middle income. The principal announced at the first PTA meeting that our children’s safety was her first priority.
In order to access the large campus, one had to stop at a guard gate and show a driver’s license as well as state his/her business at the school.
This was about 15 years ago. Sadly, that principal passed away unexpectedly, but parents had the greatest respect for her. She cared for and assured the safety of our children, her students.
That’s how it should be.
Safety is nice but a top notch education is my first priority, not safety.
Great point, Circlin
This high school was one of the leading high schools in the state, academic honors, National Merit honors, journalism honors, national honors for band, jazz, and symphony, national honors for yearbook, state winners for multiple athletic teams.
Students who didn’t plan to attend a 4 year university took coursework that afforded them associate degrees which had a dedicated building on campus for those courses. The tens of millions of dollars in scholarship money was something to behold.
I could list more; these are just a few. Those students were afforded the total package because they had a principal who gave a damn.
When is Roe V. Wade Going To Be Released??
I predict late October. This is so the Leftist masses will rise, pillage, and plunder throughout the country….giving an excuse for Martial Law to be declared and the November elections cancelled.
It’s all about the timing.
I thought it was supposed to be this month, so the summer of leftist rage can begin.
I read if not today then Thursday.
IT’s TOO HOT this Time of Year to Be Dressed in the Proper Uniform –
Black Head to Toe and Masks…
ONE of the REASONs that D.C. was ONLY MEANT to be Occupied PART TIME.
( remove ALL Air Conditioning btw and watch how FAST the SWAMP Empties out )
Doesn’t the green nude eel require democrats to eschew air conditioning as part of their ‘transition’?
hypocrites
air conditioning for me, but not for the ordinary citizens is the dem motto
SCOTUS has no set schedule for its decisions to be made public but typically they are released in the month of June before they take their summer break
I guess Summer “protests” by BLM and Antifa have become the norm now – but it’s OK, because they’re being “suppressed”!
Roe V Wade is about cementing federal supremacy over the states. Leaving the choice to the states (as per the constitution) is constitutionally correct and would allow people who want to kill babies do so in the state of their choice where it’s allowed. That seems reasonable. But no. It’s not because they are upset about not having federal level control. It’s about centralizing all power. It’s not about anything else.
My guess is the release will be on the last possible day, usually the end of June, so all the Justices and families can gone somewhere else.
Yes, I had just posted below that I had read somewhere that they were waiting for last possible day so their kids would be out of school…and hopefully all tucked away somewhere secret and safe.
Schools are all out for the year.
Why does this feel like déjà vu?
Property owners, Renters, Businesses pay “property taxes” of which part pays for schools. Whether you rent, lease or own, you are contributing to the payment of those property taxes. PARENT CHOICE: Public or Private school.
That is NOT part of the ruling nor is it remotely part of the case.
THIS Case involved a Government Entity that chose to offer public funds for private schools. No where in this case is “school” choice even remotely discussed.
You have a valid point but that is would require a specific law suit to resolve.
I actually think it is implied in the ruling. Government, after all, exists in concept because of the will of the People, and is funded (in order to exist in reality) by the People who accept a tax upon their earnings. Roberts observed that the government could not discriminate against citizens (taxpayers) because of their choice of school.
here in iowa they just tried to pass a law to allow vouchers for private schools,but there wasn’t enough support in the legislature so they tabled it for a later session,but the governor is all for it.and i’m on board,as you mention we pay taxes that support the schools so why can’t my taxes be diverted to the school of my choice.
Perhaps this SCOTUS ruling will have an impact on the IA legislature to move forward.
The primaries in Ia, 2 weeks ago,
sidelined 5 incumbents that were roadblocks to passage of legislation to allow 70% of public school funds to become eligible for alternate school funding – by family choice.
The 5 competitive replacements (for vouchers), won in the primaries.
The Nov. 2022 election is another hurdle…
imho
So if anything, this decision reinforces the People’s preference as expressed in the primary…
We only need one or 2 states to pass state-wide voucher laws. This would inspire other parents and voters in red states to more actively push for vouchers in their own states. Giving parents the choice to avoid propaganda, and select high-quality teaching for their children, would energize good teachers to shape up their corrupt unions, or go teach in private schools. And send public propaganda mills to the scrapheap if they continue to refuse to teach competently and responsibly.
Try to imagine what is like for innercity parents to watch their children have their potential destroyed by the horrible city schools. Give the inner city kids who want to learn, and do not want to be condemned to the inner city themselves.
My daughter is transitioning from home school to in person at a Christian private school again this year.
Maybe this can also mean the tuition might be reduced as well? Just shared this with the wife.
parochial schools already do on average a BETTER job of education with LESS money than the government warehouses
You still need to watch the curriculum. Many parochial schools use common core.
If the money followed the child these “religious” based schools would be flooded with new students wanting both a spiritual and a quality academic education.
Without spirituality in your life you are half-human susceptible to the whims of the flawed man. We are beings of light if allowed and fostered as opposed to beings of dark where evil will flourish.
G.K. Chesterton — ‘When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.’
This is a weakness evil exploits.
Also when parents show their children that they are not lemmings and will think for themselves and live their lives as free a possible it teaches the children to do the same.
Parents who move heaven and earth to take their children out of the intense propaganda driven public schools are showing are probably parents who are raising children who will learn from these parents how to think for themselves as adults.
Removing a child from a public school will probably be one of the hardest things a parent does for their child because of the expense and the time involved.
This will be a huge sacrifice for so many especially now in our economy.
But it also will be one of the things that will contribute to a child’s success or failure in the future.
This huge and massive sacrifice that a parent makes right now, this year even and continues to make for their small ones will make all of the difference in their child’s life.
It may sound a bit extreme for me to be writing this but when I see Drag Queens giving school assemblies to second graders, and CRT being taught I do think that parents focusing on how and where their children are educated now is going to be paramount in the child’s whole future.
We can not wait for States to comply with this decision or another decision to come down from SCOTUS.
Another generation of American children will be grown and indoctrinated by then.
The fight and the battle is down to us now.
Boloney!
Same three?
Justices Stephen Breyer, Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.
(Yawn) so when does the Supreme Court rule on Roe, 2nd Amendment and the EPA case that will decide the future of federal regulations in the United States??
Today came and went. Thursday is the last day for rulings before they pack up and leave for the summer.
Got a real strong feeling they’ll kick the can, bow to the masses and issue NO RULINGS on the biggies.
“b-b-but but but there could be RIOTING IN THE STREETS!!!”
-John Roberts
You can yawn, but in the long run, perhaps this ruling ultimately will mean there would be no need for rulings such as in Roe v Wade.
Teach children without indoctrinating them in the latest leftist nonsense and dry up the funding going to the leftist activist army, and there will be less need for these kinds of rulings over time.
I no longer have children in grade school, but I still pay a massive amount of taxes that go to these marxists, and I am tired of it.
I had read somewhere they were waiting for the last day so that their children would not be school when the ruling came. School should be out now; but, also, it should be the last ruling posted…if it was the first, no one would even pay any attention to the other rulings. No, this is the best way to do it. I don’t know about the other cases you note…what are they? Anything 2nd amendment should be on the last day, too.
Thankful to God for this ruling.👏🏼🙌🏻👏🏼🙌🏻
It’s sad that this simple case had to be heard at the SCOTUS, as Robert’s said it was ‘unremarkable’. It’s doubly sad that the Leftists denied the 1rst Amendment. With this ruling, it’s over for the Teachers Union blocking vouchers.
Riots and parochial school burnings…in 3-2-1
Why does this even impel the Court to issue rulings in the first place? The First Amendment prohibits the government from establishing a religion and protects the individual by not compelling him to join a church or preventing the exercise of his religion.
The state benefiting the people with vouchers is directed at education, not establishing a religion. And being denied a benefit from the state to offset the cost of religious schools is not preventing the free exercise of religion. No need for case law upon case law.
This is a 14th Amendment issue: once the state gives out a benefit, it cannot discriminate for any reason.
.
State required children to go to school but in some districts there were no public secondary schools. So instead of establishing them for, apparently, too few in number of children or too spread out to justify the cost, the state instead effectively gave the parents funds for the students to attend a local private school (or paid directly to the private schools on the students’ behalfs, same thing).
The students WERE being denied the right to select the private school of their choice.
.
Oh no!!! How are they going to get CRT into those schools?! LOL! They are doomed!
If I could just direct my tax money to the school of my choice that’d be even better. But I’ve got less to complain about. Where my son goes to school, they say the pledge of allegiance every morning.
If state funds are directed to private/parochial schools, do those schools have to answer to curriculum and instruction mandates since they accepted these monies?
Yes. But only the legitimate ones. Remember early on when parents were calling out the schools for teaching CRT, they claimed they were not teaching CRT. If it were actually formally approved, they would never need to deny it. So they can’t officially document any such requirement. Instead they hire teachers who are willing to teach it as a way of getting it into schools.
the opinion on the decision and the underlying policy hold no such restrictions
“[D]o those schools have to answer to curriculum and instruction mandates since they accepted these monies?”
Yes, which is why curricula should be determined at the county level.
Statewide, make for a minimal competency in math, reading and English composition. All else is determined locally.
Anyone who tells you that religious indoctrination is not happening right now in public schools is either willfully ignorant or knowingly lying.
My question is what is religion anyways? We talk about faith based schools and separation of church and state but what no one seems to address to me is what is “church” today. How is marxist ideology not considered a church? and its adherents using the mechanisms of the state to indoctrinate others into their faith
.
A good question. Buddhism doesn’t have a god.
.
And many of the churches are marxist as well, so….
Now, create a legal way for home schools to qualify for vouchers and we have a winning solution to the government monopoly on education.
There is a way here in California. My grandkids homeschool through a homeschool charter.
The ruling works for me.
People usually check reviews,performance ratings, etc. when making a big purchase.
I know I do. Who wants to buy a lemon…not me.
A child’s education is one of-if the not the most- important “purchases” you will ever make.
Second only to Bible study.
Our Public Education system…is one of the worst…in the world! Check out rankings and test scores.
We pay more money per child than most countries…and we have some of the lowest scores? We are not even in the top 10 – or even 20- in subjects!
I have been saying for more than a decade–private,parochial, charter,homeschooling–anything but Public Schools!
You can thank HUD and Title 1 for much of that.
That’s because the money is primarily spent on salaries and benefits, not the classroom.
Thank you! Amen
What about the decision coming on Thursday? Stay out of cities. They may well burn!
“[W]hen any state and/or local government choose to subsidize private schools or provide vouchers for school choice, they must allow families [to] pay for religious schools.”
This case ought not to have been brought before the court.
Long years ago, parochial schools were sued to deny them the opportunity of using school busses to transport their students. The court vigorously slapped down the plaintiffs.
Rightfully so. The parents of parochial school children pay property taxes, which funds are used to finance education. Why should they be deprived of tax benefits when they are contributing to the education fund?!
Sometimes you just gotta repeatedly beat down the ACLU and other assorted riff-raff before they learn their lesson.
.
In the instant case there was no public school available.
This has nothing to do with who pays property taxes. Property taxes pay for all kinds of community things. I have never used the local fire department, e.g., but my taxes still go for it. Ditto roads I don’t drive on, parks I don’t frequent, and libraries I don’t use.
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“Ditto roads I don’t drive on,..”
Unless you are a hermit, excise taxes that are used to pave roads bring food to the grocery store, medicine to the pharmacy.
Likewise, utility workers who build and service the infrastructure used to deliver electricity and heating oil must of necessity use the roads in performance of their duties.
We all benefit when children receive a superior education, whether we have children or not.
Leftism is now based on atheism, far more than any flavor of socialism.
Never thought such a magnificent SCOTUS decision in my lifetime. God bless the six and God help the three!
“Justice Stephen Breyer filed an 18-page dissent that Justice Elena Kagan joined and Sotomayor joined in part.”
So Communists, Nazis and Fascists don’t like competition that gives parents an opt out of having their children sexually groomed by brain dead public school Cultural Marxist deadbeats.
Even though leftist trash hate Christians and Jews, they lick the muslims’ feet like dogs. You’d think they’d be happy with this ruling, considering how it will provide revenue to the sharia schools you find in muslim neighborhoods.
Exactly! Obama approved Muslim Madrasa Schools in the United States to qualify for 100% Charter School funding and there are hundreds.
Not looking good for Resident Xiden trying to withhold lunch money for schools maintaining separate, single-sex bathrooms.😭
in any argument about this decision, remind the blue teamer that Christians pay taxes and Atheists have no exclusive right to those taxes just because the government has seized that money.
Parents pay for schools with their tax money. I don’t know why that money can’t go to the school of their choice.
Side comment:: Scholastic likes to hold “book fairs” at public schools (don’t even get me started about their “weekly magazines.” Stay far, far away) They have Ginsberg…TWO on Sotomeyer (tto match the # of digits in her IQ)…but none on Thomas or Alito.
They have more than one kids’ book on BO and MO, naturally. They have all the presidents but one. Guess which? Turns out the tolerant democrats bleated and bleated like the sheep they are until …well, first, before they got him banned altogether (no first lady books for Mel, either) they got this added to the book: “This president said some things that made some people angry.” (haha — and that line is in no other bio, as if he is the sole human being who…Oh, Scholastic!)
But wait, there’s more—..somehow, any PDT bios became “out of print”— and oddly, are still not back “in print.” (You can easily find Democrats on the net celebrating…of course.) Just to be sure, I went to the the Scholastic Chat. First, you get a reminder from the rep; she tells you that they have a search (yeah, we know) and then the chat sorta sighs, “Just a minute, I’ll look” followed by “The two that we had are unavailable.”
Isn’t that just like the tolerant left? (I know, but somebody wrote that for her and we can guess their ideology.) No explanation, just the assumption that anyone wanting a PDT bio will be enough of a rube to accept that answer– which is is no answer at all. (“Unavailable” is Psaki- like in its pretending to give out knowledge while really giving out none.) Heh, I already knew it was “unavailable,” as I had looked for it and found out it wasn’t there; in other words, it was unavailable. To go further, if you look online, that word is defined as: not possible to get. That’s the book burners letting us know, “Don’t even ask. No, it won’t be here later, either. ” It’s like a scientific fact. It. is. Not. possible. to. get. a kids’ bio on President Donald Trump because we say so. Case closed.
Could have asked a follow-up, but I’m sure the rep knows that anyone asking must have an “agenda” because the average dunderhead these days takes “it’s unavailabe” as a bona fide reason, just as they take “you might kill somebody!” as an all-purpose reason for suspending any part of the BOR (for patriots, not for identity protestors or wealthy partiers.)
Just afraid that as days go by, more and more of what we’ve always taken for granted will become unavailable (Not. Possible. To. Get.)
I’m an atheist, but the SC got one right.
Thank God for small victories.
I have always thought it interesting that the Left (the offspring of Marx and Engels) has always attempted to keep religion and the class room separate. Given the hatred that both Marx and Engels had for religion, it is no wonder that their adherents have gone to such great lengths to build a wall between education and religion, believing that the two could not be intertwined. You Tube is rich with this debate, especially from so many scientists and physicists who have become converts to Christianity and are reaching out to bring the two sides together. When you look at Genesis 1:1 and succeeding verses, and then resume with John 1:1, it is clear that the religious empirical observation that the universe was “created” is a direct nexus to the theorem, which leads to all of the corollaries in the pursuit of the science behind it all. To separate them is rooted in the conceit that only a secular school, which excludes the proposition and relies solely on the belief that only what man has wrought, can search out the beginning and the end of real knowledge, learning and science. It is that unique combination of outlook and the pursuit of the entire realm of knowledge as governed by the laws set in place in the very beginning, at creation, which allows our minds to look back at that very beginning as a starting point to appreciate and imagine the potential of what could be beyond what we see now, without attributing it all as only the contribution of mankind. Education is entirely about connecting the beginning, from creation, with the now and the future. That concept has never been the prerequisite, or even the hypothetical goal of the Left. The agenda always comes first in the secular world. That is why we get historians like Howard Zinn, or scientists like Anthony Fauci.
Everything in our current world is so bassackwards.
This could put a lot of nails in the education union tires. Take away their legislatures and they are SOL.
“Parents who wish their children to receive a moral and virtuous education should not be blocked by state and local politicians who promote sexualization of children, immoral conduct and alternative lifestyles for kids.”
https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/
Yes. I read that article. Now we are basically building / modifying humans from spare parts. This is a really evil, degenerate world. all driven by greed and avarice.
In the last days there will be a ‘falling away.’ That is happening now. A lot of so called Christians are going to be surprised on that day.
Rom 6:1¶
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Public education should not exist period. The fact that public education exists in the US makes Karl Marx a happy man. It’s literally communism. Tax payer funded private school should not happen either. Free markets work best. the government is the problem, not the solution.
Always!
If faith-based schools receive “public funding”, does that not also mean they must abide by all sorts of rules and initiatives by the public government as well???? I mean, wouldn’t there be strings attached? What if the faith-based school teaches a 6 day Creation, or only two genders, or the sanctity of marriage including that it is between one man and one woman?? Do they lose that funding then?
This could be a harbinger for gun control and other items in their menu. Could be a total reversal of libwackjob ideas.
The three atheist dissenters would’ve voted yes if it was a Muslim jihad school.
Absolutely. They hate anything Christian!
Next, do the same for homeschoolers or return our taxes that fund schools.
She sure has a skewed view of things.
*******
Justice Sonia Sotomayor continues her warnings of a dramatic conservative turn at the Supreme Court
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/21/politics/sonia-sotomayor-conservative-supreme-court/index.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16558489905887&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2022%2F06%2F21%2Fpolitics%2Fsonia-sotomayor-conservative-supreme-court%2Findex.html
While SCOTUS got this decision right and the upcoming Roe v. Wade if early leaks hold, they can personally go f*ck themselves with the crap they pulled with the 2020 election and refusing to hear any of the cases and look at the evidence. Because of their refusal we are stuck with the pedo in oval and a country that is falling fast that this administration is trying to get into a war and nuked and poor in the process. So I will withhold any praise for any of SCOTUS when they start respecting all rights (mask mandates and unvaxxed firirings) and not just the easy decisions for a majority and their faith.
This ruling is not going to put a dent in the liberal stronghold we refer to as academia. The department of education is a Marxist institution that will continue mandating how money doled out is spent. At the end of the day we spend more dollars per pupil and rank poorly in math and sciences compared to other advanced nations. A giant failure K through 12 and beyond. It’s obvious that a complete restructuring with new priorities is needed. Despite this the left is happy because the indoctrination is working.to advance their agenda and the dumbing down of America. Flooding our nation with illegal immigrants will only add to their position. Another very bad situation out of control.
We are no longer an “advanced” nation.