The U.S. Supreme Court has issued the following statement:
Supreme Court – “Yesterday, a news organization published a copy of a draft opinion in a pending case. Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court’s confidential deliberative work. Although the document described in yesterday’s reports is authentic, it does not represent a decision by the Court or the final position of any member on the issues in the case.
Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., provided the following statement:
“To the extent this betrayal of the confidences of the Court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations, it will not succeed. The work of the Court will not be affected in any way.
We at the Court are blessed to have a workforce – permanent employees and law clerks alike – intensely loyal to the institution and dedicated to the rule of law. Court employees have an exemplary and important tradition of respecting the confidentiality of the judicial process and upholding the trust of the Court. This was a singular and egregious breach of that trust that is an affront to the Court and the community of public servants who work here.
I have directed the Marshal of the Court to launch an investigation into the source of the leak.” (LINK)
Supreme Court discussion right now on Cspan live TV.
On Roe/Casey Mississippi Abortion Law.
The damage is done. The protests will be “peaceful”.
Hope the DOJ is on top of those White Supremacists.
“Mostly peaceful”
The unhinged left has never had scruples. It’s all about the protection of their power. It’s time to take back our Govt.
They weaponized everything.
Butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths, would it? We should always remember that judges are just politically well-connected lawyers in fancy robes.
The butter was certainly dripping from the Roberts statement above.
Kind of made me think that maybe he’s the leaker himself.
Nothing would surprise me these days.
The October Surprise came early. One of many.
So very perfectly stated!
Thanks, cousin.
I figure this had 2 purposes: Rile up the leftist agitators to intimidate the court into a different ruling, and get the Dem base energized for the fall elections. The lefties desperately need something to hang their hat on, since they can’t run on domestic affairs, foreign affairs, Covid, economy, schools or anything else.
All a part of the ‘governments’ war against the American people.
They truly do hate us.
….get the Dem base energized for the fall “cheatin’ season”….
So it’s clear now – you cannot be a pro-life Democrat, not anymore you can’t. They are strong-arming their supporters to take this position, too – that or shut their mouths. No dissension is allowed.
I think that one has been clear for nigh on what is it, maybe 20 years?
Many Christians at my church think they can straddle the chasm and vote Democrat.
At least.
State Primaries are commonly held in May, and PA will be on the 17th with the Dr Oz catastrophe. I think the Dem base was looking a bit sluggish, so someone decided to throw some chum in the waters.
I’m thinking Kav and the chick freak out and change their votes
They have been disappointments, big disappointments
It depends on how much they get Betsy Kavanaugh to cry.
He’s the weakling, not her.
I agree…he will cave.
And one day, they will stand before God.
I think this actually hardens their opinions. Everyone now knows how they all voted, so changing their votes now would be perceived as grotesque cowardice in the face of outside pressure. I am sure that Roberts was still working on them to change their votes, but now that effort is up in smoke. Which is the main reason I don’t suspect Roberts as the leaker. Sotomayor is clearly the dumbest member of the court, and I’m sure her clerks reflect her idiocy. The final decision will be the same as the leaked decision, and the Sotomayor clerk who leaked this decision will find it completely backfired.
Republicans should embrace the possibility that the court reverses Roe v Wade, celebrate it, and flip the messaging and counter argument of Dems to the position that is extremely popular across the board….
Reversing Roe v Wade will allow the states to limit late term abortions where babies are killed seconds before birth.
Make the message about how roe v Wade limits states from implementing popular limitations and restrictions of late term….not ending abortions.
In truth, most states would at least allow some exceptions (rape, health of mother, etc). Very few states (if any) will ban abortions straight out, in full. So flip the messaging so people associate the ruling as ending barbaric late term killing of babies in the womb (not ending abortion).
Republicans, especially MAGA, don’t control the messaging apparatus, which is why we have sites like CTH.
Problem is the Uniparty is onto us, so they set up the “Information Bureau” to take sites like this down.
Ha. You expect the Stupid Party to be smart about this? I expect them to go full deer-in-headlights. Roe v Wade has been a massive fundraiser for the GOPe for decades. If, at long last, it falls, the GOPe isn’t actually going to know what it should do. As you say, if they were concerned about winning the issue, they’d do as you suggest. But they don’t get fundraising $$$ from actually solving issues. They get fundraising $$$ by pretending that they’ll solve issues without ever actually solving them.
“…pretending that they’ll solve issues without ever actually solving them.”
Perfect description of a true politician no matter what party!
If it goes to states, then the GOPe can fundraise into perpetuity. If they don’t support a clean SCOTUS decision, or the right decision (return it to the states), they lose a critical part of their platform.
Bingo.
If every state gets to make a decision on abortion, do you think it will be more or less difficult for Planned Parenthood to purchase aborted baby parts?
A number of states have laws on the books that will automatically go into effect when Roe v. Wade is overturned. They include Michigan, North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Arizona. There are others.
Don’t the states have an interest in protecting it’s future citizens?
That’s the reasoning used to push harmful climate change policies on this generation.
…..63m potential Americans AND their progeny eliminated (I estimate 200m+ lives that never were outside the womb)….and they wonder why they need to import workers for labor jobs….think of all the culture and inventions that NEVER were because these people were never given the chance
And some folks wonder why GOD has abandoned this country.
The deep blue states think they are protecting their future citizens.
Of course, they think their future citizens are all walking over the border right now. And they’ll have to be protected from having to compete with actual American citizens on anything.
Personally, I’m not interested in trying to sway anyone who is pro-abortion that this isn’t going to end abortions. I try to live by always remembering the only one I need to be concerned about answering to is God. Just because something is popular or acceptable, doesn’t mean it isn’t a sin. So I will not water down my message to pacify those who support abortion for any reason other than for the exception of a mother’s health. Abortion is a violent act (murder) for the sole purpose for another person to put their life before another so they can get what they want. If we accept anything less, how is it society can tell others not to kill one another. Adoption. Not Abortion!
if you hold to a belief in God then you surely SHOULD be trying to convince and influence sinners… in fact, God COMMANDS you do so
Agree, but not with deceit or lies which pretending on demand abortion shouldn’t end is. As I said a sin is a sin.
You’re asking a lot from the party of McConnell and Kinzinger. Apply logic and win a battle? Naahhhh. Better to remain the loyal feeble opposition; the paydays are more predictable that way.
Bitch, Kev, Ms Lindsey and Ronna McRomney dont want to win the 2022 mid terms, they prefer 2nd place rather than lead and raise money off this. Prove me wrong.
and get in front of it — introduce legislation, that is a Constitutional amendment to make abortion legal in all states. That will make Congress decide.
Nothing will happen. These criminals have no respect for any institution or law. The Progressive Agenda must succeed at any cost. Whoever leaked will get the SSCI security chief slap on the wrist for leaking classified information. Will probably be handled without any publicity.
The leaker will be deified by the media cabal as the second coming of Rosa Parks. Parades will be held, statues will be built, books will be sold.
Btw, when Trump criticized a court decision early in his term all h3ll broke out by the Dems. They were ready to impeach him for criticizing a judge. It was a threat to democracy. Remember?
Such hypocrites.
******
Remember?
Presidents should not criticize judges
https://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/514587731/trumps-criticism-of-judges-out-of-line-with-past-presidents
Chief Justice Roberts defended judges against attacks (will he do the same now)? When the attacks come from democrats?
https://time-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/time.com/5461827/donald-trump-judiciary-chief-justice-john-roberts/?amp=true&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_ct=1651602211941&_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16516021427410&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Ftime.com%2F5461827%2Fdonald-trump-judiciary-chief-justice-john-roberts%2F
I am willing to bet its one of the leftist justices either released directly or instructed one of their clerks/employees to do it.
Of course. This was a direct order from the top of the heap.
Roberts is so compromised it’s laughable. He already knows it was a direct order.
Just take some clerk into the basement a la Stalin.
I have little confidence that the investigation will ascertain the source of the leak. It also seems that the timing was fortuitous from the perspective of the leftists. It diverts attention from Bidens request for more bailout funds and the Dinesh D’souza film. Most court watchers would not be shocked about a ruling in Dobbs that severely limited Roe/Wade. This just happened to be a good time to create an uproar. Perhaps another similar leak will emerge in NY Rifle & Pistol / Bruen.
Amit Jain is thought to have done it, based on prior “resist/breaking the law = justice” op-ed.
Well…sombody is doing the leaking. The news organization has a mole. They are desperatly trying to find a patsy now. Clowns. All of them.
Why would Sussman tell an obvious lie to his friend Baker who already knew it was a lie? And why would they both document that lie?
Patsies and fall guys are predetermined in advance in order to protect those who must be protected. But they only fall if necessary.
Dear Justice Roberts,
The best outcome of this situation is as follows:
If you fail in ANY of those 3 items, then this WILL happen again. That you can be assured of.
Those 3 items are YOUR responsibility. Will you fail?
Sincerely,
The American People
In perhaps what are the musings of an old mind (mine), I’d like to consider that Almighty God is giving Roberts a second chance to save his soul.
ALL court employees and interns must be FIRED. Any rehired must sign legally binding documents regarding confidentiality!
The timing of this leak is not accidental – primary day and Kamala speech day. Feels coordinated. Who all was involved? Why did Roberts publicly confirm its authenticity?
If Roberts truly wants to defend the integrity of the court, he should convince the justices to rule 9-0 on this case and release the opinion immediately.
9-0, for or against?
For what Alito wrote. Make it plain that attempts to politicize the court or sway their opinion through these tactics will have exactly the opposite effect of what the miscreants intended.
As predicted…
There will be a legal consequence for the leaker, who will briefly experience mild discomfort in carpal regions.
His aspiration of becoming a political operative disguised as a magistrate may have reached a premature end, but he can look forward to a long bright future of being a political operative disguised as an expert panelist who grants interviews to political operatives disguised as journalists.
Concurrently the Justices responsible for allowing him into their temple will rend their black cassocks and bleat pious words about maintaining the integrity of an independent Court; meanwhile they will continue to harvest the next crop of novitiates from the same polluted viperous dens of politicized law schools.
“We at the Court are blessed to have a workforce – permanent employees and law clerks alike – intensely loyal to the institution and dedicated to the rule of law. Court employees have an exemplary and important tradition of respecting the confidentiality of the judicial process and upholding the trust of the Court. This was a singular and egregious breach of that trust that is an affront to the Court and the community of public servants who work here.”
Right out of the FBI playbook: ninety-eight percent of the rank and file are good people, everyone, and we’re conducting an internal investigation into a rare bad apple. No need to worry or pay attention. Enjoy tonight’s Nationals’ game.
Sorry, I’ll be watching the Bucks.
Note that the Chief Justice praises his staff’s loyalty not to the Constitution or to the American people, but to the institution of the Supreme Court and the “rule of law” which it represents.
This how the individuals within the permanent administrative state views themselves and their role in American society: institution uber alles.
An excellent and very keen observation….
Keeler, you write with the vocabulary and phrasing of an Old Testament scholar. Bravo!
Maybe one of “Colonel” Vindman’s buddies…..
Are we being punk’d here?
I smell a setup — like Lucy and the football…
Counterpunch to release date of “2000 mules”? [hat-tip gatewaypundit.com]….the art of distraction.
There is no depth to which demon-crats and their MS media won’t sink
I’m sure Sundance is correct that the left thinks this will be a distraction from 2000 Mules.
But IMHO, those of us in the American public who even know there is such a movie about to open will not be swayed in the slightest from the intention of seeing it, and sharing it…
I read that last line as:
“There is no depth to which demon-crats and their MS media won’t STINK.”
I hold Justice Roberts accountable for this mess in which we now find the Supreme Court. He’s the Chief Justice and I regard it as his court.
Maybe if he and his justices had taken a look at the election fraud findings in 2020, we (he) would not be stuck with an unelected “president” and a rudderless country.
Someone help me out what law was broken by the leaking of the draft opinion? TIA!
“The work of the Court will not be affected in any way.” Bullshit yes it will!!
I heard it mentioned that the leaker could face obstruction of justice charges.
Judge boasberg will accept the case.
You mean it will go downhill even faster?
The FIB/IC/DOJ is directly involved. This was planned prior to February when the draft opinion was written and only released now after coordination with multiple groups. These people aren’t novices, it isn’t their first rodeo.
The FBI probably hand delivered the draft opinion to Politico!!
Sparks are everywhere allowing some to create fires. This leak is now a spark that will create fires, in my opinion. How great a fire or the number of fires I can only imagine. However, it seems that every recent event where the so called left has become outraged depends on attacking one of their beliefs or so called rights. This series of events seem to be attempts at energizing the true believers of the left, the question is how will their so called leaders drive them to wherever it is they want to go and to what end will they demand specific behaviors or responses from their members?
Funny, this current period of unrest seems to mirror the events of outrage within the former marriage of Depp/Heard, never being resolved. always leading to more events till diss0lution takes place…civil war.
From grooming your kids in our school systems to killing the unborn, the members of the left come off as selfish narcissists intent on total control over all those who may not agree with their perspectives, whether real or imagined. Jeep in mind how Obama wanted to “fundamentally change…” America.
Watch how this mass hysteria takes a multitude of forms and actions for control. But defend you selves as best you can!
Now that the 1st leak has occurred, there will be many more. Bullshit from Roberts aside, the trust in the SC already left the building.
For this deplorable, the trust left when Hyphen Jackson declared she could not define “woman”.
when they start redefining what the US Constitution says in PLAIN language and inventing “rights,” it had left many years ago
I’m sure the massive investigative capabilities of the Supreme Court Marshall will bring the truth to light. NOT!
Even if the Supreme Court found the ‘leaker,’ nothing will happen. The killer cop who murdered Ashley Babbitt got off scot free. And that was murder!
This is all so contrived and fake.
Just like Covid and Russiagate and Ukraine.
Do not look at the unfolding economic disaster or the dope and sex traffickers pouring into our nation. Look away.
The anarchism is almost entirely the point.
We are dealing with neo-savages.
Previous generations were concerned with the well-being, the honor of the tribe, the family, the country.
All these notions have died in the pursuit of the re-birth produced by anarchism.
The wealthy executives of Disney or Netflix, who happily subvert society, are pursuing the utopia that will be created by anarchism. Somehow.
Because America is awful (America had slavery once, did you know?).
The socialist dream dies hard. Multi-billionaires like Zuckerberg or Bezos still think they are, in some obscure way, socialists. When America goes, socialism will come. The nimrods think they are serious.
Those multi-billionaire oligarchs you name, also think they are secure from violent attack by socialist “wealth redistributors”. Bezos’ time will come, as will that for uber-beta male Zuckerberg.
How long have the dims known about this? Will the marshal investigate that?
What’s holding up the commands to blame Putin?
🤣🤣🤣
WTH!!
As for as I’m concerned, the more transparency, the better. If this revelation makes any of them change their minds, it’ll prove it was leaked on purpose and what they are made of.
“We at the Court are blessed …”
we will see.
I would not be surprised if this leaked out of the Chief Justice’s chambers.
The stench of his compromise reaches from coast to coast.
Dem Senators bloviating on Cspan1 TV now. Looks like they are outside, Capitol steps?
Schumer, Patty Murray, Warren, etc. “They’ll take away your Birth Control next!!!!!”
The pro-choice equivalent to Biden’s “They’re going to put y’all back in chains”. Ack.
Funny how the slippery slopes the left always predicts simply never come to pass…
But the ones we fear are happening daily, almost hourly…
The Dems want this to be a general election issue.
Republican in all states should pass legislation that if Roe v Wade were reversed they would limit abortions to either the heartbeat bill (or the Mississippi 15 week limit). Then Republicans should run on that messaging.
The Dems want this to be a general election issue and a choice to be about extremes:
1). Repubs ban all abortion
2) Dems allow women to choose (reproductive rights)
The Repubs should remove the extreme choice and make it a general election choice between popular abortion limitations:
1). Dems late term killing of babies in the womb
2) repubs popular late term restrictions (heartbeat bill or 15 week limits, as well as exceptions for rape or health if mother)
Reversing Roe v Wade removes restrictions on the state so they can establish popular limitations on abortions and end barbaric late term abortions or Democrat pushes for infanticide.
Be smart. Win battles to win the eventual war.
The Dems also want this “fundamental right” to be a gift from the federal government, not from states. Part of the overarching effort to strip states of any and all powers and consolidate them in the Imperial City.
Exactly. Their goal is ALWAYS to move the center of decision making away from the citizens.
So killing babies is ok, but freedom of speech isn’t????
Of course this was orchestrated a long time ago; just one of the many plays in their communist playbook.
It’s also a distraction from the millions of illegals invading our country, the high unemployment number,
the shortages in our supply items, goods and services, end of oil and gas fracking/drilling, end of manufacturing,
more dependence on China, the proxy war in Ukraine, the 2020 Election Theft in MOST states, if not All States,
the crime of spying on a duly elected President of the United States, along with constant investigations in that POTUS’s
personal life, business and even during his time in the White House! Not to mention the forced fraudulent appointment of the “FIRST BLACK WACK-JOB as an Associate Justice and then we have the newly formed MINISTRY OF TRUTH that isn’t going over very well.
Now, it is quite apparent, that these evil tyrants are absolutely no different than any other evil tyrant; they love to not only control their subjects, they also have the option to KILL their subjects, not just when they don’t follow orders and directives BUT even when they are mentally unstable and completely irresponsible, get pregnant and then decide, even up to the day of birth, decide to kill an innocent human being…..but don’t you dare touch their little doggies or kitty-kats!!!!
So…this will not end with their intended result, just as all the other plays have been bungled! This results in more exposure of the diabolical, evil, criminal, maniacal, sleazy nut-jobs and just how low they can go. Lucifer is cheering them on every minute of everyday.
Let them protest, burn down the filthy cities that house them, their drugs, feces, whatever BUT…..Remember they are the Loud, Crazy Minority who have to lie, cheat and steal to get their own way.
This will also energize the Majority and should encourage everyone to fight more now and harder than ever before.
I expect to see much more of this type of behavior before they are taken down for a very long time.
We will Win the War!!!
Agree!
This has potential to backfire–Bigly.
Getting my popcorn out!
Liberal/Democrats act and think on Emotions.
Those Emotions have tendency to turn violent. Violence and mobs.
Should be interesting……
Sundance,
Was the photograph of the sun setting behind the Supreme Court symbolism for the John Robert’s court? Because, that happened A long long time ago.
Ha ha ha ha ha, so the SCOTUS thought they were above the left’s institutional betrayal, they thought that by denying standing to election complaints that they would be insulated from the left. What a bunch of fools. Now they screech with outrage. Their outrage has no standing.
I’m sure Thomas and Alito are both quietly outraged.
Pretty sure not one of the others is.
Just read; a guy by the name of Amit Jain from India is the leaker. Why does a 3rd world immigrant even have complete and total access to the highly sensitive documents belonging to the highest Court in our land, especially, one as radical as this guy? He clerks for Sotomayor. He blasted Yale for supporting Kavanaugh’s nomination and Jain was quoted in a 2017 piece wrote for Political by Josh Gerstein. Gerstein released the draft to Political. Coincidence–you be the judge.
Politico
someone had suggested the leak was either from Sotomayor or Roberts. She knew about it I bet.
It isn’t clear if he is the leaker. Some info on him: Who Is Amit Jain? Supreme Court Clerk Who Allegedly Exposed Abortion Draft (theancestory.com)
If he isn’t a US citizen, he can’t be a clerk at any US Fed court: Do I Need to Be a U.S. Citizen to Clerk? – Cornell Law School Community
If in fact, he is the leaker and a citizen, the country of origin is immaterial, and he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of law. Thank you.
Why did a pack of Pakistani teenagers have access to the DNC’s servers during the tenure of Washerwoman-Schulz?
Imagine the outcry from our officials for investigations if we had a Presidental election that was gamed.
/sarc
The “Marshall of the Court” to get to the bottom of the leak-that’s a laugh- What was last serious thing this “Marshall ” (whoever it is) ever did? Who knew the Court had their “own Marshall” – but good to know,,,,
the original justice Marshall, whose picture they revere because he ‘established the authority of the Court to interpret the constitution which the Founders thought everyone could read and understand, will conduct the investigAtion clairvoyantly.
It turns out that we need experts to understand the words like “Commerce”, and “Woman” and obamacare “tax” and political “standing” and “Equal Protection” except for ‘affirmative’ preferences.
The Marshall of the Court is coordinating with Capitol Police to find their backsides with either hand. No luck as yet. What they can tell us so far is that it does not appear to be a Russian hack of the court’s computer system.
Although they certainly will not rule that possibility out, as Putin is anti abortion and he may want to “destabilize’ the US …. Just a theory they are working on …..
God has used seemingly insignificant people for His purposes. Pray the Marshall is a Godly person.
the SCOTUS Marshall is like a Sergent at Arms.
Marshal of the Court is a joke patronage position. Has no subpoena power. Like a sergeant-at-arms. Will be used to whitewash this whole incident. They are already circulating the idea that the SCOTUS email system was compromised. No SCOTUS culprits – the Russians did it.
It is a a setup. The DIMs want someone out so they can replace them with an activist before the Rs allegedly take over in November. The clock is ticking quickly..
I don;t think the general public will care about this come
Nov. THis willcause hair on fire mass hysteria for about a
week.. But then well if this is allthey focus on along with
the Jan 6th hearings and DO NOTHING about
inflation , gas prices etc People will not vote about abortion
which doesn;t put gas in their car or food on their table..or
pay thier bills.
I am surprised they played this card so early..there are still a
good number of things to distract from this latest hysteria soon…
Reading comments on various sites. People are like what are
they trying to distract from..how convienent. people know the
game they are playing..
I agree, the only way to really get the American people’s attention is take away their smart phones. Short of that they do not care.
I really hated that phrase, “It’s the economy, stupid”…Well, yes it is, but under all that, IT’S THE CHARACTER, STUPID!
There will always be the ups and downs of the natural business cycle, personal finances, even without the corruption in gov’t and business.
A person who has run a successful business, worked in your community, etc, whose prior performance can be assessed over time, is a much better choice, because he/she has walked thru the fire and has experience. You know who he is, and what kind of maturity he has.
If it’s only about the economy, most politicians aren’t that smart, and all they’ll do is take someone else’s money and throw it at you to shut you up.
And it that’s all that matters to get your vote, it WILL shut you up. And no real change will come.
and when the commie nazi feminist is found, name her, regardless of color.
to be honest teh ruling in this case is almost irrelevant at this point compared to the damage done to the institution. we already have no trust in the other branches of government and the little we did have in the Supreme Court is damaged no matter where you fall in the political spectrum.. this is how societies unravel
Does anyone know if Vegas has the odds set for which MSN network hires the SCOTUS leaker as the next news anchor? These people NEVER get punished. They get rewarded.
Yep. Book deals, teaching gigs, anchor/analysis jobs, high dollar consulting jobs.
“To the extent this betrayal of the confidences of the Court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations, it will not succeed.”
That’s correct.
The leak wasn’t necessary, because the integrity of the Supreme Court was undermined many months ago.
By the Court itself.
I think there will be an investigation, undertaken seriously. I saw somewhere else that the same thing happened when Roe was decided, that CJ Warren threatened the clerks with lie detector tests, and a Douglas clerk confessed, saying he’d given the draft to a journalist on deep background with the “commitment” it would not see print until the decision was issued. He got a slap on the wrist.
I think SCOTUS is a unique institution unto itself, and separate from the “political” branches. That institution helps fortify the unique role the courts are supposed to play – deciding “cases and controversies” under the Constitution and laws – I.e., not making up statutes. Someone posted above a message to the Chief Justice about his responsibilities, all of which he must fulfill, or else this will become common place, and I agree with that.
This will be his test. I hope he passes it. I will wait to see how it plays out.
He already has failed the test many times… O’care, FISA court, etc. The die is cast.
Used to be a unique institution.
Has now fallen to join the rest of the cesspool. This has been obvious for quite a while…
Just keep the FBI out of it. Almost anyone else, but not them.
Robert’s is a pathetic Chief Justice. Fitting that GW Bush appointed this man (remember his first choice?).
I have no doubt they already know who the leaker was. Doubtful the individual will be prosecuted, much less fired. Marxists are destroying every institution that used to make American democracy work.
The SC should release the court decision ASAP and make the decision final; otherwise, this kind of tactic will play out and only weaken our faith in the institution.
Have the Clerks been polygraphed yet? And they won’t be. Political stunt by Roberts.