Representative Jim Himes is the ranking Democrat on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI).  During an interview on Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan, Himes looks forward to the political benefit he predicts following terrorist attacks inside the USA as soon as the FISA (702) program expires next Friday.

Elimination of FISA (702) authority is not a bad outcome; in fact, many of us want that outcome because FISA (702) is warrantless surveillance of American citizens.  However, watching Himes be gleeful at the possibility of terrorist attacks resulting from FISA (702) expiring, is, well, a little weird.

In the non-pretending world, we fully understand a terrorist attack is highly unlikely. However, if there was a terrorist attack, it would likely originate from our own intelligence community organizing it in an effort to get FISA (702) authorized again.  It’s far more likely the FBI would be motivated to create a false flag, than the odds of an actual terrorist attack.

[TRANSCRIPT] –  MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, Representative Jim Himes, who joins us this morning from Greenwich, Connecticut. Welcome back to Face the Nation.

REP. JIM HIMES: Good to be with you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, President Trump appointed the Federal Housing Finance Agency head, Bill Pulte, to be the next Director of National Intelligence. The President said it is temporary, but even in that acting role, he could stay in it for over 200 days, and it would bypass Congressional approval. Pulte himself was Senate-confirmed for the housing job. Three Democrats voted for him. Do you know if he has a security clearance to do the intelligence work?

REP. HIMES: Well, that’s a very narrow question, Margaret. I have heard a- a senator said that he did not have a security clearance, but that’s almost beside the point, right? He doesn’t have an iota of national security experience, and the president is putting him in this most sensitive of roles, and you know, you pointed out that he was confirmed for the sort of obscure Federal Housing Finance Agency job. This was before he used that job to try to go after the president’s political enemies, Adam Schiff and Letitia James. And so now we’ve got a little bit more data on Bill Pu- Bill Pulte, and the reason this is so controversial is that we know that’s his distinguishing feature. He’s going to do whatever it is that he believes is in the president’s political interest, and there is no way that the authorities and assets of the intelligence community can be in the hands of an individual who has showed that his sole reason for being in Washington is to do the president’s political laundry.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the president did say he wants Pulte to find out more about the 2020 election. At this point, is there anything Congress can do to stop him from taking on this role?

REP. HIMES: Well, you know, you haven’t asked about it, but you know this Pulte nomination, which, by the way, created bipartisan outrage. You saw the public commentary from my Republican colleagues. The president did this 10 days before the expiration of our most important and also very controversial collection authority, that’s FISA 702, right? I mean, I just heard Senator Warner describe it as throwing a grenade into a very, very delicate situation, and so, no, can- I mean, can Congress do anything to stop this? Not really, but the President is doubt assured through this appointment that the single most important intelligence collection tool, at a time when the Iranians are, you know, thinking about conducting operations abroad, maybe in the United States, I mean, you just could not have come up with worse timing for what is probably the worst appointment into the intelligence community I’ve ever seen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this was a controversial authorization. You’ve been working really hard on trying to convince both Democrats and Republicans to extend it, even before Bill Pulte was chosen. We know yesterday, the Republican chairs of Senate Intel and Judiciary sent a letter to the White House saying expect a lapse in the collection of foreign intelligence later this week. So, how do you get around this? Because it sounds like there is planning for this key surveillance tool you say is so important to just not be in place.

REP. HIMES: Yeah, no, I saw the letter from Tom Cotton and Chuck Grassley, and look, I think at one level they’re acknowledging reality, which is that the Pulte appointment has taken 702 reauthorization off the table. You know, we voted in the House and passed a bill with 42 Democrats. I will tell you that at least half of those Democrats are gone, because they will say, ‘look, I- I wasn’t very comfortable with this authority to begin with,’ and we don’t need to get into why it’s controversial, but it is controversial, but with Bill Pulte, who is, you know, absolutely dedicated to abusing authorities, no, I’m not there. And so you saw in the Senate yesterday a failure to proceed on a reauthorization. So the only right answer here, Margaret, the only right answer, and I don’t have a lot of confidence that it’s going to happen, is that the President says, you know, ‘oops, that was a mistake,’ and pulls the Bill Pulte appointment in favor of somebody who will give not just Democrats, but everybody more confidence that this is somebody with some experience who won’t abuse intelligence authorities. That’s the only way out of this mess, and you know President Trump could do that right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it sounds like you’re saying Democrats are going to withhold their votes until Pulte’s selection is polled. The President often doesn’t back down, as you know. Is- is the White House, is Marco Rubio, who was up on Capitol Hill just a few days ago, working in any way with Democrats to find an acceptable alternative here to Bill Pulte?

REP. HIMES: Well, remember two things. Number one, where I work in the House of Representatives, we already passed the FISA reauthorization bill. So the question you ask is really a question for the Senate. I guess the Senate could just–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but this is the thing standing in the way you’re saying, right?

REP. HIMES: It’s well- the Senate needs to pass a bill or pass the House bill, right. My point is that the House already passed a bill. Now, by the way, if we had to pass another bill in the context of Bill Pulte, I don’t think we could, but you know it’s not Marco Rubio. You said, is Marco Rubio working with Democrats to find an alternative to Bill Pulte–

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know.

REP. HIMES: –that’s- that’s not the way this works, right? The President needs to sober up and realize that this appointment is arguably in the- in the, you know, you know, basket of awful appointments he has made, this is probably the worst and most dangerous. So, I mean, I hope he can find a way out, because you’re right, he doesn’t like to back down, but he’s also not going to like the terrorist attacks that might happen if there is no 702 collection authority, because look, you know, Tom Cotton can try to say that this is a Democratic issue all he wants, but the Bill Pulte appointment was, you know, panned in a- in a strong bipartisan way.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, but just to be clear, you’re saying that the Senate has to vote on the bill that the House sent up. If they make any changes, would you still vote for FISA reauthorization if Pulte is in the spot?

REP. HIMES: So the only way, so the House passed a bill, 42 Democrats supported it, that would not be true today, so you know, I suppose–

MARGARET BRENNAN: You would hold your breath this time around?

REP. HIMES: –I don’t think it can happen. Ive- well, well, again, it’s this, it’s- the ball is in the Senate’s court.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REP. HIMES: The House passed it. I don’t think, look, if I had to vote again on this thing, knowing Bill Pulte’s background experience and what he’s done in this obscure federal agency, I don’t think I could look myself in the mirror in the morning and say, yeah, this is a guy who should, you know, have control and access to this authority. And look, I think- I think there’s lots of Democrats and Republicans who feel that way.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I reached out to you wanting to also speak to you about Ukraine before this controversy erupted here with Bill Pulte. You were just there, you were meeting with President Zelenskyy. Just in the past few days, Ukraine has carried out some very deep strikes. St. Petersburg, some, what 600 miles into Russian territory. How do you judge where the war is at this moment in time? Is Russia still winning?

REP. HIMES: No, Russia is not winning, and I mean that’s the headline, right? Ukraine is now winning by any standard, right? On a- on a net basis, you know, the front lines are moving a couple of square miles here or there, but on a net basis, the Ukrainians are now retaking territory. The Ukrainians are inflicting a mind-boggling number of deaths on the Russians. You know, for every square mile that the Russians move, they’re giving 250, 300 Russian men in fatalities. You know, the Russian casualties are like 30,000 a month. It’s just staggering. I mean, it’s like a- it’s like a Vietnam every two months for the Russians there, and as you pointed out, the Ukrainians are now striking deep into Russian territory in a way that has compromised, you know, 30% or so of their ref- of the Russian refining capacity. So make no mistake, the Ukrainians are winning this war.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On Israel and Iran, there is some reporting, both in the New York Times and another television network, that the U.S. has increased its counterintelligence threat against Israel. Some specifics there about them spying on American officials. Is that accurate? Has the U.S. raised its counterintelligence threat level against Israel?

REP. HIMES: Yeah, I- I can’t really comment on what we’re doing with respect to counter intelligence, but it is worth reflecting on the fact that you see a divergence now between U.S. policy and Israeli policy. I wasn’t on the phone call, so I can’t validate that it happened the way it was reported in the press, but of course the press reported that President Trump was screaming obscenities into the phone at the- at Prime Minister Netanyahu, because the President, of course, is very motivated to get this conflict over. He knows the effect of $1.50 increase in gas prices on his political fortunes and his party’s political fortunes. So, you know, we- Israel is not, though they are an ally, they are not a member of the Five Eyes agreement, in which we agree not to spy on each other, and that sort of thing. So, again, without answering your question, which I cannot do–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

REP. HIMES: –you know this is a moment in time where the President is at odds with the Israeli leader.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will continue to track that story. Jim Himes, thank you for your time this morning. Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.

[END TRANSCRIPT]

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