As we work through bugs associated with CTH 2.0 launch, consider this a thread to provide information, report user issues, ideas and concerns. Please read the information provided below as it might answer many questions in advance.
Today, December 2nd, was our official eviction date as established by WordPress/Automattic two weeks ago. Considering the scale of moving 11 years worth of data (56,000 articles, massive media file, 7.2 million comment library), the tech team did a great job.
That said, we anticipated some issues, are encountering others, and we are carefully working through a checklist.
First, we wanted to migrate the data and site in the least disruptive way to the CTH community that provided continuity and familiarity.
Despite the tech issues with the disconnect from WP/Automattic servers to our own proprietary server system, that overarching goal was achieved. Now we are getting into the weeds.
First, some background so everyone can understand the big picture issues. Obviously WordPress/Automattic wanted us gone; however, in hindsight the unspoken purpose and motive behind our eviction is now making a lot more sense.
Based on insider information, there were two distinct issues that merged; sunlight upon them is against the interests of massive multi-billion dollar organizations, but at CTH the truth has no agenda, so here’s the inside explanation as it appears.
♦ Ideology – As they said in their notification to deplatform, the “content” of CTH was against the terms of WordPress/Automattic. This is not really a surprise as Big Tech looks for any obtuse or obscure reason to silence voices that are not in political alignment with their goals. The decision by WP/Automattic is not surprising even if they would never publicly admit it. Quite simply, this battle has been going on for years and now it is at an inflection point. Alternates to the grip of Big Tech are starting to emerge, slowly.
♦ Business – In addition to the ideological nature of the motive, there is another element which has gained significant clarity in the past few weeks. Our CTH community did something WP/Automattic never expected… we were too successful.
The scale of the CTH reader and commenting community literally was/is a rebel alliance reeking havoc inside a host network that didn’t like our voice. Simultaneously, we were chewing up massive amounts of their server space and capacity. This is very interesting.
According to insiders who have reached out and shared their opinion, what CTH evolved into is far more than a simple blogging community. Essentially the metaphor provided is this: “you took a blog platform and built a mini FaceBook social media enterprise within it.” The CTH community, our extended global family of ragtag misfits, was/is using CTH as a network of like-minded friends to share and discuss information.
You might say well, isn’t that what a blogging community is all about… and the answer eleven years ago was a simple: yes. However, our assembly became much, much, much larger than a simple community.
The scale of having up to 25,000 simultaneous users is way beyond a simple blogging platform. CTH became a social media enterprise. Discussions, information sharing, networking and contact with each-other is what social media was all about.
The FaceBook social media model is essentially operating in our site. That’s an awesome outcome, but one WP/Automattic did not expect. In essence CTH hijacked the platform to create a social network.
All of that engagement costs the host (WP/Automattic) server space and massive amounts of bandwidth. Despite my paying for their hosting services (business plan), we were essentially living cheap, almost rent free, inside their platform. Once we realized this was also an element of concern, some prior work by WP/Automattic to control CTH made sense.
There is an interesting conversation happening in the coffee shops of Big Tech about this issue… WordPress/Automattic can never admit the unique financial problem that CTH created for them.
The business model for WP/Automattic is to sell the potential outcome of exactly what we achieved. WP/Automattic pitches their business plan by saying you can build a blogging community and share your voice.
Well, we took them up on that offer ten years ago and we built the biggest community within their system; a massive community. We did exactly what the marketing people at WP/Automattic say is possible… except we did it bigger than they ever imagined. Our success at achieving the scale of community created a problem they can never admit.
If WordPress/Automattic were to be honest now about the financial impact of users -like CTH- achieving success, they would be undercutting the entire marketing/advertising plan of their hosting platform.
The honest sales approach from WP/Automattic would be to say: we can provide you a platform, up until you achieve significant success; and then, it is in our financial interests, for you to leave. Obviously WP/Automattic would never sell their product if they were honest… so they look for reasons, any reasons, to control or eliminate the community. THAT appears to have been a big part of what drove their decision.
It was not a surprise that WP/Automattic kicked-us out immediately after they went into the market to get more money to expand operations. CTH was costing them money, perhaps a lot of money. As a consequence not only were they hosting a voice against their ideological interests, that voice was so big it was costing them money. Combine both factors and you get the insufferable excuse “your content” is against our interests.
Believe me, this financial ‘cost to host‘ issue is a big topic in the background of conversations in the tech industry. The hypocrisy of selling a product they do not really want to see succeed is a very interesting conversation. Sunlight upon this motive in the world of tech is kinda funny. The Automattic members can never allow this to be widely known; but the people within the machinery know exactly what the issues are.
♦ So, what does that mean to CTH 2.0? Well, we have a big server network hosting us right now – and it ain’t cheap (by a long shot). To give you an idea of how unique this situation is, they cannot even calculate the cost until they see the results over the next month or so.
This is uncharted territory. Our commenting community, specifically the number of simultaneous users, is essentially like a mini Facebook inside their server network. No-one has any idea how to manage this outside of pre-existing social media platforms that generate millions/billions in upfront revenue and construct proprietary and dedicated server farms.
It’s a good problem.. so everyone says.
It’s a good problem from the perspective of those who would love to monetize our network/community. However, that is not the purpose of our assembly.
To the extent our community will need money to securely exist and thrive safely, publicly and with privacy protections on an independent platform, that is ok. However, the true value in our community is our fellowship and the search for the truth.
♦ To the DETAILS:
The comment restoration function was a significant hurdle for a variety of reasons previously explained. One of the issues moving forward is the type of software that drives the comment function. We are trying to use the most private system possible that also provides security. The WordPress/Automattic system used a combination of proprietary creation and a system called JetPack.
Jetpack has some functional issues and is inherently connected to the comment function. When JetPack was uninstalled, it impacted the comment platform; that is why “likes” and the familiar embed Wavy avatars were lost. We are looking for alternate options that we can add to the site to restore those features and also add an edit button (if possible) to the comments. In the interim if you register a gravatar with your email address your custom avatar will follow you.
There is a comment system that most platforms are using called Disqus. If you let Disqus run ads in the comment space they provide the comment software free. However, Disqus does track users and I am not too happy with the privacy aspect. That would be a last resort, and only if they will set-up a custom privacy component.
If you are having issues with the comment feature or site access, feel free to provide feedback below and we will attempt to compile and/or assist as we move forward.
Love to all,
~ Sundance
Sorry for double post but my comment seem to be missing, so I will report.
I am glad CTH has found a new haven and I am sure after all the teething troubles it will be back up and running fully. As one poser above stated there may be some features missing and possibly the CTH technical crew can arrive at a reasonable cost to reactivate some of those features or we may have to live with some commercial ADDS to defray costs of this “social networking and crowd sourced informational site”.
Yet, there is an unaddressed issue that is going to raise its ugly head again. There are two axioms I lived with as a Chief Engineer and Senior Systems Engineer for a large tech company for over 30 years.
1. Information is Power.
2. He owns the Infrastructure and Interfaces is KING.
With respect to Axiom 2, the top tier owns of the Information Highways and Interfaces include the likes of Micro-Soft, Apple, IBM and AT &T. They can close down whom ever they please via threats, interface changes and denial of access. The next major tier down are the major platform owners; Micro-Soft, Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc.. They have the same powers as the top tier but are dependent on the top tier for their control. Until the US Government lackeys of Big Tech bite the hands that feed them, this will always be the case. The EU has learned this and are attempting to turn the tables of control via anti-trust legal actions (shake downs for cash payment).
Axiom 1 is the reason CTH will likely have to consider how much throttling will be tolerated as well as always be prepared for the next move, due to the physical constraints of Axiom 2. A major crowdsource d informational web site is always danger to those who want to rule.
An interesting educational item of note. Ever notice how “writing skills” (on paper) seem to be diminished or going away? When the digital routes are closed, paper is always an option in its many forms.
I agree Doc, I still play with Fountain Pens…
Is there a trick to getting my registered avatar to follow me, or does anyone care about avatars? I don’t.
So happy CTH is back. Great work Sundance!
When I first come on the site I noticed that new posts aren’t showing up. And comments aren’t showing up either. I have to comment something myself to see the newest posts and comments. If I click on the “Home” button, new posts don’t appear, but if I click on “uncategorized” I usually see a new post and comments.
Another thought I had for CTH 2.0 as things continue to stabilize:
Can you set up the site to serve as a state-by-state organization platform? IOW, it’s very difficult to find events in my area and trustworthy people to collaborate with. What if there was a Colorado Treepers page on the site where we could post events, find out who the Treepers are in our area, and use the platform to organize. You guys would “deputize” a person to be the belly button for that state. Real names withheld from the website, but you would need to know literally who they are for the reasons below.
The BIGGEST issue the Tea Party had was that it got co-opted by the Uniparty. So, I think the people who do this should get some sort of background check. Ask to see their social media profile going back YEARS. Do a criminal background check. If they blog under a pseudonym, such as on disqus, search that too. You’re still policing it and taking to your state Treepers internally on messaging. Tea Party got copted by posers, so you see how they do, root out the posers.
An example of the problem here in Colorado was the “Recall Polis” effort. There were maybe half a dozen groups trying to do that. It was highly confusing, and nobody knew who to go to or through. Some of them appeared to be either chaff or just morons. Having somebody at the Treehouse serving as the clearinghouse for that sort of thing would be very helpful. Like the UL or Good Housekeeping seals.
Which leads me to my next thought: a CTH Seal of Approval. Sites you’re okay with people linking to that have a demonstrated intellectual consistency (i.e. not click bait, not NeverTrumpers, I wouldn’t even give Twitter a seal only maybe individual users like Pres. Trump or Sydney Powell).
The tricky part of all of this is where to draw the lines. I think that’s where you publish your 15 Commandments so to speak, stating that this is who you are and that your mission is explicitly conservative. (Anything that isn’t is quickly coopted by the Left.). It doesn’t even have to be complicated. I think telling people you won’t accept donations above a certain threshold would be good too, because the Left coopts with money. If people know its grass roots, and can see it, they’ll get it and the monetarist forces of darkness get shoved aside overtly.
More and more in the comments I see people looking for a place they trust where they can organize. Twitter, Parler, etc. are sewers. I’m surprised you even allow people to retweet using CTH, but sometimes it’s the only way to broadcast news I suppose.
Anyway, long random thoughts. Thanks for considering.
Excellent suggestion. Here in Michigan we have a UNLOCK MICHIGAN group that has successfully lead a petition drive to repeal the 1945 law that Whitmer used (lawfully) to impose her diktats. It is now stuck with the Secretary of State.
Now they are morphing into gearing up to defeat the unholy Soros backed triad of Whitmer, Benson and Nessel. It would be great to have links to follow soldiers.
Hokkoda, I think that’s a great idea, keep me in mind if you ever get something going… I would be glad to be part of a group like that… I just watched a speech given at a little local church in Oklahoma by : Dinish D’Sousa (on U-Tube) about his idea for a great option for the “Future of America”… It’s worth your time to look it up and watch it… It’s the Best Idea I’ve ever heard and very innovative…
Hello.
Just “called in” to say, yesterday I actually had a comment posted immediately, and thought my troubles over…but no-o…
Today, the site gives me a comment # URL, but doesn’t post my comments…
Just reporting that…
By the by, this thought just came into my head, obviously of great importance:
“We are poor little lambs, who have lost our way…”
You can finish it, I don’t have the heart (well…)
Hee-hee-hee…
Well, damn it, it came right up…who’s in charge here?!
I’ve followed this site for years and years, but only as a lurker. I never had an account, but find great pleasure in reading all of the comments of other users. Glad to see that big tech isn’t causing the death of this great voice. On 2.0, I will endeavor to participate a little here and there.
Welcome back. Minimal issues from my side.
Thursday 12-03-2020
Stella said to post my findings (regarding a few problems experienced today when I tried to access CTH website) here at the Dec 2nd “CTH 2-0 Site Status Update Information” thread. I’ve only posted the link to my original post (since I don’t want to duplicate posts) along with some additional problems noted as below.
Original post listing problems 1-6:
(https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/12/03/december-3rd-2020-presidential-politics-trump-administration-day-1414/comment-page-3/#comment-7298639)
ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS as mentioned in Emails sent via YAHOO to The Last Refuge:
7__…I did learn that if I go to CTH’s Twitter account I can click there and reach the homepage (where the interactive Calendar is activated for 12/03/2020) but only the Presidential Open Thread is showing with only 1 comment and a back arrow that takes you to Open Thread (with the Our Father) and again only 1 comment showing.
The only way as noted to find Dec 3rd posts is via the “Monthly Archives” page (ref. #3 above).
8__When I click on the Home button it only returns to the homepage for December 2nd so that might be where the problem lies, in that the homepage is not recognizing the newest date? Again, possibly because of it being a “Monthly Archives” problem?
ADDITIONAL FINDINGS (not mentioned in original post or previously sent emails):
9__When clicking Home button and “The Last Refuge” at the topmost left side of homepage, both show the Dec 2nd article “President Trump National Address on The Election: “The Most Important Speech I Ever Made” – Full Video and Transcript…” placed ABOVE Dec 3rd articles and threads. Then (as appropriate), additional Dec 2nd articles and threads start to display below the Dec 3rd posts.
Is it possible “President Trump National Address on The Election: “The Most Important Speech I Ever Made” – Full Video and Transcript…” is pinned?
10__When sending an email via Yahoo to CTH, the email address repeats itself. Ref: To: “[email protected]” ; “[email protected]” [email protected]
Hope all of this helps a little bit. Wishing everyone at CTH a blessed day in Him.
Possible to bring back the Vote feature for comments?
It would be better if our comments appeared immediately after posting so we know for a fact the comment was successfully posted. Just in case my previous comment about being able to upvote comments again doesn’t post, I’m asking here again. Thx.
Different look than yesterday. No use Google Facebook etc to comment. At the end of comments I have a “leave a reply” with comment box, name box, email, and website, with a “post comment” at the bottom. No indication of how to log in.
My reply to minnesotamike55 3:27 pm: I don’t think you have to log in to use the reply feature or comment box. I’ve been posting and I’m not logged in. I just use https://theconservativetreehouse.com/ to reach site. I’m on a Windows 7 laptop.
Backstory by Sundance is always enlightening!
So I just posted and see they are Sharing icons not tools to comment and apparently still no way to just log in. Looks like we have to “post comment” to log in. But, it does work.
Posted this at 3:14 pm EST on 12/03/2020
At Presidential Open Thread I posted and experienced the following:
Test posted at 2:56 pm
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/12/03/december-3rd-2020-presidential-politics-trump-administration-day-1414/comment-page-5/#comment-7299167
Subsequent Results following pressing “Post Comment” button:
1__After posting above comment, page auto-refreshed but only displayed:
533 Responses to December 3rd – 2020 Presidential Politics – Trump Administration Day #1414
← Older Comments
1. Patriot1783 says:
December 3, 2020 at 2:50 pm
(note: I did not copy/paste Patriot1783’s comment here)
2__I then clicked refresh arrow but nothing changed, still displaying as above.
3__I then went to the address bar and deleted “comment-page-5/#comment-7299167” and hit enter key at 2:59 pm and my post displayed properly.
4__Of note, this comment box is not behaving properly. After expanding it to help with using it, the lines of type extend behind the opening. The previous comment box was very easy to use so not sure what happened with this one. I wish I could explain it better. The Name * Email * etc. fields are running off the website page with the comment box expanding to the left side of the page.
5__Cursor does not show up when trying to return to the top of this comment box. I think it’s off to the left side too much, which is what is happening with the List Numbers and __. As I type this right now, all I see below this comment box is: me * ail * bsite (and the m, a, and b are only partially showing).
Of note, I am using Windows 7 but never had any problems with previous CTH.
Hope this helps.
Sending this at 3:18 pm EST
As followup to my previous post at 3:14 pm EST, I followed the same steps as noted within it and again, this post showed up immediately at 3:15 pm (the time I checked) after I had deleted “comment-page-9/#comment-7299212” from the address bar.
Until approx 1pm MT December 3, the CTH remained static where it was shortly after midnight ET. That was on both my iPhone and PC. Yet some people were apparently posting comments to the President Trump daily thread for December 3 during that time. The same thing happened yesterday. Since I eventually see the current view I must assume it is not my devices that is the problem. I am sorry you are experiencing such difficulties.
Cannot figure out how to resubscribe.
Posted this at 3:30 pm EST:
CTH, I think the problem with comments lies with the “Reload this page” button not working correctly.
Congratulations on a remarkable platform migration!!
So, now that the former platform has lost the Treehouse & the Tree, there need for Bandwith has gone down considerably.
So there internet footprint goes down making them less significant and perhaps more profitable from the lower cost associated with lower Bandwith requirements.
They are now circling the drain in spite of the current increase in profitability.
Here is a report about “security” online from 2017. No doubt things have “advanced” since then https://wccftech.com/websites-keylogging-session-replay/
I read somewhere that disqus records every keystroke and comment whether the comment is posted or not. Just as there is no such thing as a free lunch in the real world, there is no such thing as “privacy and security” online.
Kudos to the team for all the migration work! A tiny thing as you get your head above water: I haven’t been receiving my daily emails in the last few days.
Keep the faith!
I see that some of you have decided to rid yourselves of all things WP. I am curious, does that get rid of all your prior comments in WP?
I think WP/A will be very happy to have you gone – not merely for reduced bandwidth and storage costs, but because they also will not suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, hosting an insanely popular right-wing site. The ‘Internet’ has a hard time with politics, as that is not so easy to identify as censorship, suppression, or ‘damage’. But we now know that the ‘Internet’ is recognizing corporate control as damage, and is routing around it. But…
0. WP/A actually hopes you are just successful enough to attract the search engine attention, new subscribers, and ads wherever they can be delivered. More than that, if it costs, is undesirable.
1. Sadly, WP/A isn’t going to escape the attention of the social media giants. And they also want to be part of that society, and a favored part if at all possible. That means, among other things, getting along and sucking up.
2. CTH was on the verge of having enough power to compel WP/A to do things. But WP/A did indeed choose to preemptively take that power away. And not because CTH was going to force WP/A to do anything, just perhaps try to force them to NOT do something – censor or suppress CTH. Inevitable, you know.
3. And this is a blessing in disguise. WP/A could have damaged CTH, and done it with plausible deniability… Yeah, you were pushed, but you got off the ship before they shot you, drowned you, and tossed you overboard.
Yeah, I’m not particularly fond of the Gravatar login. I discovered my avatar was showing up all over the internet, in places I never even thought were linked like that. If there’s a way, I’d sure prefer something that’s local to this site and not shared.
test
Ohhh, I think I unlinked it. Woohoo
retest 5 4 3 2 1
I’m having issues using the “older comments” link on all articles.
I’m having to use the ctl-f5 force-reload just to get any comments (if I just click an article it usually has only a couple comments).
Currently I’m unable to view any comments that aren’t on the most recent comment page.
Does anyone know a workaround for this to be able to read through all of the comments on a given article?
Sometimes when coming to this site the link to Sundance’s twitter feed shows up on the right hand column between recent comments/recent posts, and sometimes it is not there.
I see this issue occurring as well.
I just ran into Spalding Smails, and he was telling me about his experience with the new site. He goes, “I want the ‘Like’ button, I want email notifications, I want an edit feature, I want the little Bell icon for notifications, I want to be able to post images and videos, I want about $tree-fiddy for each comment I post, I want…”
Obnoxious kid! Guess what I told him? 😉
Just for grins, under Manage, I deleted my old CTH URL in my WordPress Reader Followed sites, and added in the new one to Follow. No matter how many times I try it I get the following Caution message:
“Sorry, there was a problem following https://theconservativetreehouse.com/feed. Please try again.”
First, /feed was not a part of the URL i input, it was “https://theconservativetreehouse.com/”.
Second, it is flat out not going to let me Follow CTH there. You have been blacklisted.
I have had this problem with NO OTHER website Follow EVER! I follow numerous sites not on WP and I get them just fine.
Posted two separate comments tonight from my iPad. When I select ‘Post’ the article redisplays and only shows the first comment that was made on it (not mine) and all the rest are missing. If I select ‘Home’ and go back into the same article, then I see all the other comments as well as my own.
new post 5 4 3 2 1
Glad to see you back. I am not receiving my daily updates- not sure if I just need to post and that will fix. Will see.
No – that’s not set up yet but we’re working on it.
I am not getting daily e-mails. Can you help?
Not yet – that’s not set up yet.
Why the secrecy on who your new host site is? There should be greater transparency if you are going through all this trouble to move away from WP.
And while we are at it, why not get funding to do your own hosting? Why depend on anyone else? Haven’t we learned that anything we depend on can become a weapon of the Left against us?
Breitbart uses Disqus and it is generally ok but I do have issues with my comments not appearing, replies not appearing, things seeming to be fishy. People tell me there is a rating system and that I am rated “Poor” even though I make many comment, get many “Likes” and reply comments. I do not get much in the way of negative or constructive feedback other than a “your post is under review … for something or other which is never specified.” Go figure.
You can want people to have “good manners” but come on, don’t be prudes! Let people vent! Let them say their piece. People can down vote them. Maybe there needs to be a way to communicate why they are being downvoted. Threats of one kind or another are another matter entirely and are not acceptable. But name calling is, to me, fair game.