T-Rex: No Further Questions Needed on Russia Sanctions Being Lifted,… EVER !

Funny call readout from Secretary Tillerson’s office today.  The last paragraph is extraordinarily blunt (emphasis mine):

[Dept. of State] Secretary Tillerson phoned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko today to discuss his recent trip to Moscow and his message to the Russian leadership that, although the United States is interested in improving relations with Russia, Russia’s actions in eastern Ukraine remain an obstacle. The Secretary emphasized the importance of Ukraine’s continued progress on reform and combating corruption.

The Secretary accepted condolences from President Poroshenko on the death today of a U.S. member of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Special Monitoring Mission (SMM). The leaders agreed that the OSCE SMM has played a vital role in its role of monitoring the Minsk agreements designed to bring peace to eastern Ukraine, and that this tragic incident makes clear the need for all sides- and particularly the Russian-led separatist forces-to implement their commitments under the Minsk Agreements immediately.

Secretary Tillerson reiterated the United States’ firm commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and confirmed that sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control of the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine and fully implements its commitments in the Minsk agreements. (link)

Oh well, I guess that’s that then.

No need to ever wonder about those pesky sanctions ever being lifted.


Horse = Dead.

Moving on…



This entry was posted in media bias, President Trump, Russia, Secretary of State, Secretary Tillerson, Ukraine, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

236 Responses to T-Rex: No Further Questions Needed on Russia Sanctions Being Lifted,… EVER !

  1. Sedanka says:

    It’s so good to have actual businesspersons running the show, FINALLY.

  2. SSI01 says:

    I’ve read somewhere an eyeball that allows the full circumference of the iris to be seen – that is, sclera (white of the eyeball) visible on all sides of the iris – is an indication the owner of that eyeball – or pair of eyeballs – has a mental or neurological disorder that needs looking into. I wish I could remember the name of the condition.

  3. wheatietoo says:

    And T-Rex’s State Dept specifically turned down Exon’s request for a Waiver to drill in Russia.

    That is the company he just left!

    Squeaky clean, our T-Rex is.

  4. Pam says:

    T-Rex dropped the hammer again. He’s as Fed up with the Russian narrative as we are.

  5. Aqua says:

    T. Rex conversations have become “don’t miss” events…

    I’d love to be a part of a Trump/Tillerson dinner discussion. Real news.

  6. Kroesus says:

    It is questionable whether the Ukraine actually ever “owned”: the Crimean Peninsula…..Khrushchev in a drunken stupor (often for him) transferred its ownership…..the area had traditionally been Russian territory and its people are by a vast majority Russian heritage and lean towards Russian governance……I think we have no business trying to dictate on this matter

    • Sentient says:

      They had a vote in Crimea. The people – mostly Russian speaking – voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia. American neocons protested that the election didn’t meet American standards. If it had, the “rejoin Russia” side would have won by only 85% instead of 90%. I’m sure John McCain will be overjoyed by this. It’ll also help Putin maintain overwhelming popularity against his American foil. He’ll probably also cooperate more with Iran, since the US is again proving its inclination to meddle throughout the world.

    • Kaco says:

      Yes, and I thought I had read they have a military base there.

      I remember when we all heard Nikki Haley’s first speech at the U.N. She said basically the same thing. It was poo-poohed here as she’s just rattling off, it isn’t what Pres. Trump thinks. Apparently, we should start taking what they all say seriously, including Pompeo about Julian Assange and Wikileaks.

      I find it a shame that there can’t be a cordial, practical, relationship with Russia. Destroying the Left’s Russian hysteria is not much consolation, and they will continue the accusation anyway.

    • Orygun says:

      I am never sure why you can’t have a sovereign country that speaks Russian and is friendly to Russia without having to become a part of Russia. Am I missing something here?

      • Derek Hagen says:

        No, but now that you bring it up we are all not missing something. Thanks. Let’s pass this question around.

      • Sentient says:

        You’re missing that they had a plebiscite. If the people of Crimea want to revert to being part of Russia why should Kiev be allowed to disallow it? More importantly, wtf business is it of ours? It’d be like if Russia slapped sanctions on the US until we handed Arizona back to Mexico. I get Sundance’s point (below) that the sanctions aren’t really hurting Russia (don’t throw me in the briar patch), but the mind-numbing sanctimoniousness of Americans weighing in on this matter at all is beyond belief. What’s next – we start dictating to Myanmar how they deal with the terrorist Rohinga? It’s none of our f’ing business!!!!

        • alegenoa says:

          I hear that many European businesses suffer from this EU sanction, losing the Russian market. It doesn’t make sense.
          It seems the Trump administration is just protecting its reputation from those “Russiagate” accusations, but this in turn means there are unwanted consequences for the world.

        • It’s all fake outrage.

          Very few Americans could locate Crimea, the Ukraine, or even Russia on a map.

          Even our representatives don’t know the difference between Crimea and Korea.

          • Sentient says:

            The same could have been said of Serbia, but that didn’t stop us from bombing them to aid the Muslims.

        • Dixie says:

          No briar patch for you. I agree with everything you said.

      • Jenny R. says:

        It’s a very complicated situation, going back well, well before WWII (or even WWI), and neither side is completely the innocent victim. It also involves far more than politics (religion, ethnicity, et al. have been twisted to conform to political justification). There could potentially be some peaceful, pragmatic way to reconcile this thing to the mutual benefit of all concerned, but it would involve compromise and putting old grievances and entitlements to bed once and for all — so it won’t happen because all parties concerned nurse those like a starving infant at a bottle.
        The Middle East and Eastern Europe: the places where diplomacy goes to die.

        • WSB says:

          This is what I have been thinking for awhile. At some point there was a separation.

          Normally, the US would make a deal to operate a base in a separate strategic area. Why can’t the Russians do the same unless all decide to rejoin under one umbrella? However, the US still should not be involved.

          • Jenny R. says:

            because it’s in an area of the world where diplomacy goes to die 😉
            aka. Bismarck was a bastige, but correct (although he should have expanded it beyond the Balkans)

            The Russians and Ukrainians (although genetically and culturally quite close — Kievan Rus anyone?) have a tendency to hate each other’s guts (and both sides are guilty of causing that). And the leadership on both sides is infected with a disability to think outside the box — which will likely cause them and others grief in the future.

            Don’t get me wrong, I would have liked to see a U.S./Russia alliance and at least better working relations…but I’m not so lacking in clear-sightedness as to get on the Russia Rah-Rah Brigade. That country has some very troubling problems at the moment…we will have to be as ready as possible for the outcomes of those…imhao of course.

      • Benson II says:

        It seems they were doing fine until Putin decided they needed to come back into the fold and started agitating with some of the populace to get them to side with him. If Putin had left well enough alone would those who now side with him have decided they wanted to rejoin Russia, on their own. I doubt it.

    • SteveInCO says:

      The fact of the matter is, when the USSR broke up in 1991, the then-present borders of the SSRs were recognized as the new borders of the independent countries.

      Russia simply decided to take away something they had previously recognized as belonging to Ukraine. In other words, they simply took it away, with the same excuses the Nazis used to take the Sudetenland.

      And yes I know it was ethnically Russian. Again: Sudetenland.

      • deanbrh says:

        Must be very dense here….I thought Trump wanted an opportunity to make friends with Putin and enlist his help in getting rid of Isis. What’s changed? And what of those 75 diplomats Obama sent back to Russsia? Were those the only “sanctions”? What about our diplomats in Russia? We leave them?

      • dayallaxeded says:

        It is ethnically Roosky, b/c Stalin or his predecessors murdered or forcibly rellocated the Ukrainians (maybe Tartars? Can’t remember their ethnicity right now) and replaced them with ethnic Rooskies, who remain the majority in Crimea as a result. I’m still looking for a deal to be struck where RUS essentially resumes supervision of Ukraine, keeps its naval base, but has to invest some serious economic development and law enforcement $ (rubles anyway) to get sanctions lifted. Seems like 3x win to me.

        We don’t want to “own” everything, When a smart developer sees a neighboring property in distress, if he doesn’t want to fix it himself, his best option is to get someone else to.

        • SteveInCO says:

          As I recall, it was ethnically Russian primarily because the Russian empire under Catherine the Great in the 1770s conquered it and moved Russians in to settle what was, before that time, pastoral (nomadic) land.

        • val76 says:

          Yes! Thank you! The local and indigenous Ukrainians were killed and Russians were moved in! It’s why eastern Ukraine too is mostly Russian speaking and have Russian loyalists.

          • Sentient says:

            And while we’re re-litigating the history of Crimea, let’s weigh in on whether lands taken by the Kingdom of Ghana should be returned to the f’ing Bantus!

            • i'm just sayin'.. says:

              You had to open that one up didn’t you?

              • Sentient says:

                There are disputed lands everywhere. Not our problem. Not our business.

                • Old Codger says:

                  Just because they’re not our “problem”, doesn’t mean TRUMP can’t take advantage of a little chaos to kill off the lingering “Muh Russia” issue AND go a leg up on Putin!

                  I know its Monday and you got out of bed on the “left side”, but try thinking ahead, just a little bit, eh?

          • WSB says:

            Sounds like an ancient Islamic tactic.

          • Summer says:

            There have never been any “indigenous Ukrainians” in Crimea. It was populated by Tatars before Stalin “relocated” them to Siberia for collaboration with Hitler, and ethnic Russians. Crimea was Russian before Chruschev decided to redraw the map and “give” it to Ukraine.

            Let’s be realistic: the local population voted to re-join Russia. They are not going back. And Russia will never abandon Crimea because of Sevastopol. Not gonna happen. Tillerson can issue as many political statements as he wants.

            • Jenny R says:

              Not just Tatars — Poles, Germans, Russians,Ruthenians, Greeks, Jews, a bit of everything from the region (it is sitting on a crossroads of Eurasia, a key hub). And the relocations weren’t just under Stalin — the tsars were not so innocent themselves. In this regard Russia acted like just about every other imperial power at the time (and they weren’t the only ones who did the imperial shuffle in that part of the world)…but it is well to remember: usually the natives don’t remember being pushed hither and whither that fondly (parts of my husband’s family still feel like they were lied to and tricked by all sides of the Schleswig Holstein Wars — the Old World’s memory is far too long, and ours is far too short, or at least our knowledge of how long the Old World can carry a grudge is).

              And the Holomodor and forced relocations under Stalin didn’t endear Russians to Ukrainians (who in turn usually acted on any opportunity to get revenge, which didn’t endear them with the Russians).

        • Kroesus says:

          this territory LOOONG predates Stalin……it goes back to at least Catherine the Great (1700’s) and had a war that occurred BEFORE our Civil War…..Britain, France and the Ottoman Empire xs Imperial Russia….you may have heard of it as it was called the CRIMEAN War……Lord Tennyson actually wrote a somewhat famous poem about the fog of war and mistakes that happen called “The Charge of the Light Brigade” (look it up)

    • RC says:

      Russia fought the Ottoman Turks for the Crimea, won in 1776 and signed a peace treaty with the Porte shortly thereafter. Russia’s claim to the Crimea is of longer duration than ours to the original 13 colonies, not to mention our later acquisition of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

      Sundance reminds us that President Trump is presently fighting rabid leftists ( 35% of the electorate ) milk-toast Republicans (15% of the electorate) as well as the US Chamber of Commerce & Business Roundtable wielding mega-millions come elections.

      Should we lose the White House in 2020 or 2024, we might well return to the chaotic immigration and unfair trade patterns of the last 30 years, as we grow ever poorer. What happens if Mexico demands both the return of those south-western states in 2040 and can count on local populations voting to rejoin Mexico in state referendums? And what would we do if the United Nations — citing sanctions on Russia over Crimea as a precedent — imposes sanctions on us, pending the return of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California to Mexico?

      For that matter, come 2040, how might Russia vote in the UN Security Council about sanctioning us?

      • Linden Markham says:

        The Mexicans will turn those areas into replicas of the shit holes they left, just as the Palestinians turned the thriving Gaza into a shit hole. Nothing changes.

        • Old Codger says:

          I say we return California to Mexico! A whole lotta problems solved! Let those lefty Silicon Valley and Hollywood panty-waists deal directly with the Cartels. Barrels of popcorn needed for that!

          (And don’t give me the “but, Cali has a GDP equal to the 5th largest…” BS!
          Cali’s been losing businesses for years and there would be an absolute mad rush for NV and AZ, if it was returned to México!)

      • MaineCoon says:

        “Russia’s claim to the Crimea is of longer duration than ours to the original 13 colonies, not to mention our later acquisition of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.”

        Let’s not forget Alaska, Louisiana Purchase.

        • RC says:

          Hey Coon, I was going to write that France and Russia sold us Louisiana and Alaska fair-and-square, but realized that — given the oil reserves — these nations might now claim that Napoleon had no right to betray the ‘Acadian refugees’ and that the Russia Czar was clearly insane to sell us so much oil for a pittance. In short, the deals for Louisiana and Alaska are invalid.

          Sanction those sanctimonious Americans till they return Louisiana and Alaska !

        • SteveInCO says:

          The problem with this is that Russia owned Ukraine back then too.

          Ukraine, INCLUDING CRIMEA, became independent from the Soviet Union as the USSR fell apart and modern day Russia (also becoming independent) recognized that fact, and recognized its borders.

          Russia is now coming back and playing what would be, in a more politically incorrect age, “indian giver” and demanding–forcibly seizing, in fact–something they had previously given up.

          The parallels to Nazi Germany and the Sudetenland are staggering and I am absolutely appalled that good Americans make excuses for it. One can argue about whether we should get involved, but argue that Russia is in the right here? No fricking way.

          • smartyjones1 says:

            There’s lots of apologists popping up. You would think Putin is George Washington not a former KGB officer who was stationed in East Germany helping prop up that totalitarian system/government.

            There’s a lot of Russians who don’t have a problem with empire. Hey, just look at the land mass of Russia alone. You think it got that way by accident?

            • SteveInCO says:

              Not by accident, but they did catch a couple of lucky breaks. Once they punched through the Siberian Khanate during Ivan IV’s reign (Ivan the Terrible) they basically had very little between them and the Pacific Ocean.

              But yes, they’ve always been expansionist.

      • WSB says:

        Are we keeping the UN?

    • US says:

      Crimea is historically Russian and the warm water port for the Russian Navy. If we want friendly relations with the Russian Christian Nation they will have to keep Crimea and Latakia base in Syria. I hope and pray that this is only a negotiation position to make a good deal, otherwise we will never have a peaceful relationship. Ukraine is within the Russian sphere of influence. If they evacuate the Donbas we should leave Ukraine alone and never, ever have Ukraine in NATO or the EU.

    • JoAnn Leichliter says:

      Frankly, I agree, Kroesus.

    • MVW says:

      “Secretary Tillerson reiterated the United States’ firm commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and confirmed that sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control of the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine and fully implements its commitments in the Minsk agreements. ”

      And we should return Texas and California to Mexico. /s

      Neocons are loving Tillerson’s position. Soros must love Tillerson. Ukraine government was overthrown by a CIA operation, so again we meddle for the Globalists and then put a White Hat on top of a Black Hat and put a ribbon on our chest. Bravo! /s

      I am not celebrating the continued hostility towards Russia, but until we get our domestic problems addressed and Neocons are gone I can’t see a political resolution.

      What a mess.

      • Old Codger says:

        Cali = YES;
        Texas = NO! Texas won its freedom from Mexico in a shooting war = Remember the Alamo!!! Texas joined the US as a separate, independent republic.

    • SEJMON says:

      Crimeans are happy they do not have to live under worst government in Europe since may 1945….remember Vicky Nuland give away cookies in KYIEVi feb.2014….

  7. Weeper says:

    I just love it when a plan comes together.

    I feel like I’m reading a political thriller where the “good guys” are smart, intelligent humans, and the enemies are a bunch of stupid cartoon characters. Next chapter please!!! 😉

  8. Rickster says:

    Yet, Rachael Madcow will probably be on her next show saying “What if….this is a ploy….by the Trump administration…..to apppeaar tough.” o_o

  9. All those tired of winning please raise your hand………………..

  10. KevinH says:

    This is one of the few times I differ with the opinion here. At the fall of the Soviet Union, at that moment, the US began dumping billions of dollars into ripping Ukraine out of Russia’s sphere of influence, over 10 billion dollars in fact, according to Victoria Nuland.

    You can argue that that was a good idea, or a bad idea. That doesn’t change the fact there would be tens of thousands killed in Crimea if Russia didn’t accept them (half accept, half annex), whatever you want to call it — the people of Crimea are happy for Russia’s intervention.

    • sundance says:

      Your point is not mutually exclusive to the position of T-Rex (and/or Trump).

      Think about it.

      These sanctions are a nothing-burger, mere annoyances, to both administrations in the larger scale of things.

      “Please don’t throw me into the briar patch”.. (the basic concept here).

      • Our T-Rex just cuffed Russia, with more to come…

        What did those fools expect we’d do after their bomber-jabs at Alaska’s coastline!

        • Trialbytruth says:

          Good point BK a little tit for tat. However, as straight forward as Secretary Tillerson was, the left will remind us he didn’t say never EVER nor did he pinky swear.

          It is nice having adults in charge who are clear in intent. Unlike our previous cabal of liars and cheats when you want to know what this administration means by what it says all you have too do is look at the words.

          I tried to explain this to my daughter in law (one year of undergrad law and a constitutional expert) we are no longer face book friends. I only had 7 so now i’m down to the 6 smart ones in the family. Every so often the zack herd must be thinned LOL

      • KevinH says:

        Excellent point. And it could also be Trump positioning himself at the farthest extreme for free, to leverage in negotiations with Russia about Syria and other topics.

        • dayallaxeded says:

          Your sentiment is spot on, though I doubt any significant impact on Syria. It’s about Ukraine. There’s a deal to be crafted that will help everyone.

          The world is real estate. so who knows how to make those kinds of deals?

          If Trump had been in the garden of eden, he’d have built a wall around the forbidden tree and we’d still be living under God’s original Grace. He’s got a lot of fixing up to do.

          • Old Codger says:

            ” It’s about Ukraine. There’s a deal to be crafted that will help everyone”

            If it has anything to do with allowing and paying for many more Ukrianian women into the US as “refugees”, I’m all in! Beautiful, long legged blondes…..mmmm!

      • M33 says:

        Sundance, exactly what I was thinking!

        This is all big-picture leverage stuff here that operates on a 4-D chess board.

        Most of us can barely see the board, much less the pieces.

      • MVW says:

        Thank you for that clarification. Trump is working in the world of politics now out of necessity. This is the real world, politics is part of it. The problem with politics is that it is the swamp.

  11. xyzlatin says:

    There was a free vote in Crimea which approved of the annexation. Russia needs an all weather port for it’s navy. Russia cannot give in and will not. Ukraine also had a properly elected president who was ousted by CIA stirring up marches and the killing of protesters therein, and an unelected oligarch installed. The US, and the EU bureaucracy greedy nation building is to blame for this situation. Ukraine was to remain neutral and out of the EU. Russia was betrayed. This will remain a stalemate and a festering sore. No win here.
    However, I can see that Tillerson had to make a show of independence from Russia, given his former life. Also because of the stupidity of the accusations against Trump and bogus Russian interference in the election, Trump also has to make a show of not supporting Russia.

    • wheatietoo says:

      This is part of the huge mess that Pres Trump has inherited.

      And yeah, the political optics would be bad if he were to lift sanctions right now.
      Even though he might want to.

      Putin is smart, so hopefully he understands this.
      It will take time to rectify the misdeeds of the past.

    • Orygun says:

      The CIA seems to stir up trouble everywhere and answer to no one. A country of their own.

    • olderwiser21 says:

      Best explanation ever – thank you……

    • Tegan says:

      Glad you mentioned the port…I thought it was one of the primary reasons for Putin’s action in Ukraine, but when no posters brought it up I was beginning to doubt my memory,
      That, BTW, irregardless of the tongue-in-cheek comments about Ca. is why it’s still important to the rest of the country…the coastline and all it brings.

    • smartyjones1 says:

      Well, I note there’s been elections in Ukraine and some have been free and fair.
      Others have been questionable but then again, when oligarch tyrant fled in the dead of night off to hide himself in Russia.

      All the tears spilling for the oligarch coward here. Fascinating.

  12. kelly says:

    Putin wants the Crimean deep water port thats it that’s all

    • No, Putin wants whole Ukraine back…Ukraine never been independent country, it was always split between Russia and Poland…and was always fighting Russia for Independence…

    • Timmy-the-Ute says:

      Then Russia can compensate the Ukraine for Crimea. Stop paying for a war between the two countries and compensate Ukraine. Enough trillions of Rubles will make the Ukraine happy and navigation right out of the Sea of Avoz (Kerch Strait). Ukraine is not going to invade Russia’s western border. Putin, pull back your tanks and troops.

      Yes Alex Jones says the Ukrainians are a bunch of Nazis. But the Russians make a treaty with them. If Russian wants there nationals back them ask them to emigrate back. Russia is not a natural country. It was a empire or a collection of countries. It’s ability to maintain that empire will vary. The empire under the USSR was a high point. Now it is at a smaller level.

    • Jenny R. says:

      Well, if he would be practical, then he would negotiate a deal with Ukraine and get/keep his warm water port — and maybe some other nice bennies as well. A potential win-win situation for at least most people (and thus, in the interests of stability and future working relations, I believe this is what the U.S. should be angling for). There are still some people in the Russian leadership that might be up to convincing him of this.
      But if he decides to go with the revanchist elements camp in his government — and it is present and does fit just about every bad stereotype of the Russians available — then he’ll not be happy with just that, will try to reclaim control of all the former Soviet bloc nations, will extend further into Europe and Asia…and will likely have things backfire horribly…causing consequences of an unsavory nature for everybody.

      Personally, if the Russians aren’t careful they’re going to cause their country to go POP again (and it will happen suddenly and thus rather shockingly for everyone) — just imao.

  13. progpoker says:

    Love the Wanted Poster, Sundance!!
    Louise Mensch could’ve starred as “Bore Us” also!! 🙂

    • dayallaxeded says:

      nothing menschlichkeit about her!

      “Menschć is a Yiddish word from the German for” man”. In Yiddish/Jewish parlance it means an excellent or Godly person. I’ve met 1, maybe up to 3 mensches in 60 years. She ain’t one. PDJT might prove to be a real mensch. We’ll see. In the meantime, he’s a heck uva POTUS!

    • paris23 says:

      It’s all a funny game, isn’t it? The State Dept. must know that is never going to happen. I guess it’s all about posturing for political reasons.

      • dayallaxeded says:

        You can call it politics or humanitarian – – moxnix. Fact is RUS is best situated to provide economic development and security to Ukraine. Don’t see Poland, Germany, or any other neighbor stepping up. Key is making a deal that benefits USA, given those realities. PDJT & T-Rex appear to be on the right track, though since they haven’t hired me yet at a yuge salary, there remains room for improvement.

      • Daniel says:

        I wouldn’t be so certain of that. As I have grown to see things as bargaining positions, I see this as leverage to do any number of things in the future. To say that’s never going to happen? Let’s say, for example, Russia were convinced serve US interests in some significant and highly visible way. Well? Perhaps that deserves reducing sanctions or some other reward for good behavior. That President Trump was not responsible for the sanctions still makes him “the good guy.”

        I begin to see things more and more as potentially useful positions from which to operate rather than staunch positions based on ideology. Operating on an ideological level is essentially operating from an emotional level. And that becomes a big problem as emotions replace intellect in the brain.

    • xyzlatin says:

      It won’t happen. Ever.

    • They must honor their agreements.

  14. xyzlatin says:

    People may not take seriously Russia’s scientists’ research involving climate change. Their leading scientists predict massive COOLING which means Russia will be affected by having its northern seaports frozen. (Dec 4, 2013 – A new paper by solar physicist by Habibullo Abdussamatov predicts the current lull in solar activity will continue and lead to a new Little Ice Age ). Russia began building massive nuclear driven ice breakers because of this forecast. Russia needs a secure southern seaport for its navy. It is a matter of life and death for the Russians and they will not give in.

    • Timmy-the-Ute says:

      The only important part of their Navy are Submarines. Warm water ports are not that important to their Subs. When you only have one Aircraft Carrier you really have one too many. Russia’s navy isn’t used to keep open international shipping lanes like the US Navy does.

      • xyzlatin says:

        So why would Russia close down its options for ever more because at the present time it may have subs as its most important part of its navy? It still has some ships it needs to get out. It would be a foolish nation indeed who gave up a warm water port for ever closing its options down simply because neocons in the EU, Nato and the US (like McCain) want them to behave and toe their line? Unlike the US, Russians have suffered over the centuries from invasion and backstabbing.

        • Jenny R. says:

          Oh, I think the U.S. has suffered its fair share of backstabbing.

          Let’s be honest: it is incredibly hard (but not impossible) for the Russians to maneuver a peaceful and lucrative deal due to past associations with its neighbors — a lot of this they have brought upon themselves, and while it isn’t fair to judge a country by its past actions nevertheless the memory of those actions is still there; however, the question should be brought to them: is it better to try something different and thus improve those associations? Or go with the old-fashioned method?
          At this point I’m not so sure it shouldn’t be presented to them as :”what have you got to lose?” The Ukraine is becoming a mess for them(and influencing the rest of E. Europe — even Serbia and Belarus have in recent years stepped away from Russia on occasion, and the situation in Central Asia is not looking too rosy, domestically it isn’t either, and I don’t think the Trump administration is going to respond in the same fashion as previous administrations. So at this point maybe they need to try something else because what they are doing is at the point of a zero sum game.

      • Kroesus says:

        are you crazy?…..ever hear of a thing called the “continental shelf”…..modern subs typical operate in the 1000-2000 foot depths and cannot do this until they reach deep ocean…..since most attack subs vary from 55-65 feet in height you can see the typical 100-200 foot coastal depths give very little water under the keel…in fact even with todays Black and Baltic sea ports in use by the Russian Navy we monitor their movements for HUNDREDS of miles after departure and they must surface to pass through many chokepoints (Dardanelles Bosporus and Juteland Straits)

  15. SharonKinDC says:

    In the geo-political chess game, this is the effective statement to make. What the end result will be may differ.

  16. BG2 says:

    For whose benefit are these ineffective sanctions? Shadow puppetry, a form of words.
    Russia will never give up its warm water ports in the Crimea.
    The naive Ukrainians are a perfect case study of why you don’t give up your nuclear weapons in return for hilarious Western promises about your territorial integrity.

    • MVW says:

      You can’t trust a democracy. Look who we elected for 8 years, BHO.

      • Jenny R. says:

        That is the problem of years of public indoctrination, teaching them — incorrectly — that we are a democracy.
        We are not supposed to be anything of the sort.
        Because our founders knew you could not trust a democracy.

  17. In Az says:


    Interesting information on George Soros and his evil works in the Ukraine.


    CNN interview with Obama, Obama admitting he “brokered” Ukraine power change.
    Of course it is BS. It was a government overthrow, a coup, with the help of George Soros.

    The Ukraine President that was overthrown was not a fan the of the EU. He had to go……enter Soros and Obama doing the dirty work for the EU.

    By any means Soros needs to be dealt with. He is not the only one causing wars, murder, the downfall of Western civilization. He has help, but he is the face, and he is doing the majority of the evil and vile. work to destroy the world for the Communists Globalists benefit.

    • dayallaxeded says:

      As usual, what’s in the USA ‘s interest and in the interest of the people affected is in direct opposition to Soros. Time is overdue when he can be turned over to those he has harmed for trial and sentencing.

  18. Muslims are in the Ukraine. There are many names for Muslims. Ukraine was home to 248,193 Crimean Tatars, 73,304 Volga Tatars, 45,176 Azeris, 12,353 Uzbeks, 8,844 Turks, 6,575 Arabs and 5,526 Kazakhs. That number is growing. ,Muslims are doing there what Muslims are doing here making Liberals to be violent. Leave Russia alone.

    • georgiafl says:

      Muslims are bad actors wherever they immigrate. Islam is as Islam does.

      They play good cop/ bad cop and pretend victim until their numbers increase, then they are dangerous and tyrannical.

      They have played the same game and committed the same barbaric bloodshed, committed slavery and oppression since Mohammed was alive.

      Here is Islam’s reign of hell on earth just in 2017:

    • georgiafl says:

      IF Ukraine doesn’t stop the Muslim invasion, it will be Ukrainistan in 20 years or less.

      No doubt Erdogan is pushing Muslims to immigrate there.

  19. Joe says:

    Kiev and its sponsor have not implemented Minsk. The Donbass and its sponsor have. The Russian Federation has assumed that sanctions will not be lifted. The bridge to Crimea will soon be finished. Now that the neocon Ukraine gambit has resulted in the impoverishment of the Ukraine it will get even more unpleasant. Keeping The Ukraine together will cost us more than the sanctions will cost Russia, so we probably will let it disintegrate. And Kiev might just attack the Donbass again.

  20. chojun says:

    I have a former co-worker who is ethnic Russian from Crimea. The big problem is that they wanted to return to the Russian federation.

    I’m not questioning the wisdom of this foreign policy objective but I will say that it will remain a stumbling block for improving relations. But the sanctions do create a significant amount of leverage for the US.

    Which means that at some point in the future sanctions and Crimea policy will likely be reversed in exchange for some *big* concessions from Russia on strategic issues.

  21. KevinK says:

    So is this suppose to be another Trump foreign policy “success” we should celebrate? Another example of 3D chess? Anybody who knows anything about the history of Crimea (and I bet most on here are well versed) knows that Russia is never going to give up Crimea nor should it! Crimea has been Russian for hundreds of years! So we should just forget about ever achieving good relations between the U.S. and Russia?

    We all know what happened in the Ukraine under Obama. The neocons (Nuland) spent billions to overthrow a democratically president of the Ukraine. Thousands of innocents died horrible deaths as a result of U.S. intervention. But for the illegal U.S. actions in the Ukraine Russia would never have had to annex Crimea.

    Trump campaigned on better relations with Russia and seemed open to recognizing Crimea as Russian. Unfortunately it appears the unrelenting campaign to paint Trump as a “puppet of Putin” has worked and Trump has caved into the pressure by adopting a belligerent stance towards Russia – not only in the Ukraine but in Syria (to the delight of ISIS and Al Qaeda).

    This neocon foreign policy stance will just lead to more bloodshed in the Ukraine. It didn’t have to be this way.

  22. A2 says:

    I’m with Secretary Tillerson. The grievance collectors (aka Putin apologists) and false narrative promoters can pound sand.

    That is all.

    • SteveFrench says:

      It basically comes down to them (the grievance collectors) underestimating PDJT. Look, admittedly with any other candidate I would be likely to be on their side with regards to the situation with Assad and now Ukraine. And that side is something like: “This is what the Neocons have been campaigning for, so this is bad.”

      But just HOW can you now operate under the assumption that that Trump doesn’t know something that is obvious to you? Memes about Trump having a time machine were popular because the guy has had such solid intel ffs. I just can’t wait until something so big and successful happens, maybe with NK or negotiation in the ME, so that most everyone will be forced to admit that we are dealing with an individual that operates on another level here.

      • A2 says:

        I do not operate under any assumptions, just the facts on the ground. The so-called Russian grievance collectors are disinfo agents or morons who do not pay attention to actual events.

        The rest of your post is garbled. The President=Sec Tillerson. Got that. No time machine, no memes. The memes are yours.
        What is your argument?

        The President, and the SoS are not ‘operating on ‘another level’. They are operating on hard evidence.
        Deal with it.

        • SteveFrench says:

          We are in agreement, I think you misunderstood my post.

        • KevinK says:

          Steve seemed to be agreeing with your comment about “grievance collectors” (whatever that is) and you turn around and insult him! Not very nice!

    • Sentient says:

      Thank you Mr. Kagan.

  23. jeans2nd says:

    These statements by SOS Tillerson may be a wee bit more than first meets the eye.

    In 1994 Bill Clinton signed the Budapest Agreement, agreeing to protect Ukraine, and Ukraine gave up Ukraine’s nuclear weapons. Putin broke that 1994 agreement.
    “Is it fair to speculate that the Kremlin is also interested in the Clinton Foundation?”
    “(will) New York’s attorney general will investigate”? Recall, Obama/Clinton guy Preet Bhara was fired.

    Obama/Clinton also broke the 1994 Budapest agreement. Meanwhile, Ukrainian oligarch Victor Pinchuk became one of the largest Clinton Foundation donors, and atttempted to influence Bill Clinton to become anti-Putin. http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/10/19/wikileaks-ukraine/

    Have any of the 13 steps included in the Minsk II agreement been accomplished, or even attempted? It would seem not. Minsk I was never even begun. http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/09/economist-explains-7

    One may become entangled in all the weeds, but imo these statements by SOS Tillerson are more than just what appears on the surface, even a potential bargaining chip. Perhaps Putin knows this as well.

    • jeans2nd says:

      If one may be permitted, plagerizing Sharon,

      “I’m wondering if The Donald already knows a lot more than he’s letting on to, but is willing to pursue the public dance because he already actually knows how it ends??? I can’t imagine him risking doing what he’s doing based on hunches…even to a greater extent than he’s already made reference to. We don’t have to worry about The Donald’s loyalties, I don’t believe.”

      • Dixie says:

        Wow, kudos to you jeans2nd for your in depth reading of previous CTH articles and posts….that goes w-a-y back.

      • WSB says:

        WOW! That was a fun interview! And since it covered some of what T-Rex is saying, I just had to share PDJT’s closing remarks to Meridith…

        “I know this. I will be better than anybody. I will do the best job. If I decide to run, I will do the best job. I will be best for this country. And, you may say, “Oh, gee, that doesn’t sound like George Washington.” Well, guess what? Before George Washington ran, he didn’t sound like George Washington either. I will be and do a great job, if I run and if I win.”

    • Sentient says:

      If the Budapest Memorandum had been a treaty, it would have had to be voted on by the senate. It wasn’t and it’s not. Bush the Elder also assured Gorbachev that we wouldn’t enroll former Soviet republics into NATO. We lied.

  24. georgiafl says:

    Best solution to Crimea – let it be independent and lease their port to Russia if they wish.

    • georgiafl says:

      Best solution to Ukraine (after neutralizing $0r0$) is a massive MRP (Muslim Repatriation Program) to return Muslims to Saudi Arabia (Sunni) or Iran (Shiite). Really, Saudi Arabia should have to take them all. That is where the evil ideology was formed and that is where it should return.

      As for the Africa – muslims have been an evil plague there for way too long. It’s heart-wrenching how many deaths, slavery, oppression Africa has suffered at the hands and swords of Islamists.

      The whole world desperately needs MRP to be enacted globally.

      • WSB says:

        Answer to the entire world not blowing up! Thanks, georgiafl! Put a wall around it. Or offer complete annihilation to relieve the Royal family from their misery and demise.

    • MVW says:

      georgiafl, would you trust your security to a lease?

    • georgiafl says:

      ALSO – didn’t Crimea have a majority vote to return to alliance with Russia?

      Ukraine has had major problems with corruption and will have more serious problems with $0r0$ and Islam influencing the country. $0r0$ is still Nazi at heart. Islamism and Nazism are twin ideologies – equally tyrannical and barbaric.

  25. ALEX says:

    Good. Russia is a rapidly dying country. The fact they are squandering precious resources on conflicts that are nothing more then a replay of Cold War is obvious…Look at the leaders of Russia since end of Cold War and that answers many questions…

    We owe Russia nothing and they are not our friends in any way…..We can try to work together and that’s fine, but you don’t concede anything to a thug like Putin….I feel the same way about most of Europe…Pay up and fix yourselves….They all have much bigger bark then bite…

    Set the ground rules and walk away…

    • georgiafl says:

      At least Russia (like Poland and Hungary) has resisted the encroachment and demon hordes ofl Islam.

      • Jenny R. says:

        Russia has a large and growing muslim population:

        I believe the only country on the Eurasian continent that is nominally Christian to have higher numbers is France.

        And many converts:

        Go down to the section about other countries — Russia is having a problem with ethnic Russians, who one would suppose are at least nominally ROC in origin, converting to islam, and worse becoming jihadists.

        • georgiafl says:

          Oh – I had read Russia had cracked down and rejected Islamist invasion after the Beslan School massacre.

        • georgiafl says:

          Thanks for the correction. Anywhere Islam spreads is plagued and in for a lot of suffering.

          • Bull Durham says:

            Re-correction for you, georgiafl. The Russians have a very aggressive anti-Wahhabi Islam security program in the Caucuses (Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia). These are Muslim republics in the RF, and the ISIS and AQ sponsors in Saudi Arabia have for 35 years sent radicals into these areas to fight the government forces.

            The FSB intercepts and kills many bombers and assailants all the time. There are special units dedicated to these regions and to the big cities of Russia.

            The St. Petersburg bomber and his cell (he was not a lone wolf, but a directed agent) have been uncovered, the leaders captured. So, more links will be uncovered.

            The Russians are very effective internally and internationally at fighting Islamic terror.
            Egypt is desperate to get Russia to come help them fight the MB/ISIS. Turkey depends on Russian Intel services to help them against terrorists. And the Central Asian ‘stans all depend on Russian security against Islamic radicals.



            • georgiafl says:

              Russia also has Siberia where they can store terrorists indefinitely….longterm cold storage.

          • Jenny R. says:

            You’re welcome. It isn’t well known because it is not well reported. It is nonetheless significant, I think. I won’t lie: it troubles me greatly; I am afraid it will have serious future repercussions that may be coming into play now.

    • georgiafl says:

      The bigger crime is letting Obama, $0r0$ and Islam have their way in Ukraine.

    • SEJMON says:

      Alex…and you know about VVP & RUSSIA only from NYT & WAPO sir that is not eunogh.

  26. i'm just sayin'.. says:

    Agree, sanctions a nothingburger…
    Importantly, at home, this stance mutes the blathering of war hungry Punch and Judy (McCain & Graham) and their ilk. Pres. Trump has dinner with them (P&J) this week probably for a come to Jesus moment.
    Also, accentuates leverage in Europe pre-G7 meeting and anticipating opening, on a country by country basis, bilateral trade discussions. An ancillary benefit is the EU’s continuing to be exposed as an over bloated gas bag.
    Oh yeah, more leverage to get NATO “allies” to pay up

    • KevinK says:

      This belligerent stance towards Russia will not mute McCain and Graham it simply rewards them them for their past attacks on Trump’s previous foreign policies (that he campaigned on). In an interview last week Graham said he was the happiest man in D.C. after Trump’s 180 degree turn on Russia.

    • WSB says:

      This just came in to my account:


      10:00AM: President Trump has a video conference with NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station – Watch LIVE
      11:30AM: **President Trump has a working lunch with ambassadors of countries on the United Nations Security Council**


      2:30PM: President Trump signs a proclamation on Holocaust Remembrance
      3:00PM: President Trump hosts a credential ceremony for newly appointed ambassadors to Washington, D.C.
      4:30PM: President Trump meets with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Joseph Dunford
      5:30PM: **President Trump participates in a reception with conservative media**
      6:30PM: **President Trump has dinner with Senator John McCain, Mrs. Cindy McCain, and Senator Lindsey Graham**

  27. artichoke says:

    I support Trump in almost everything, but this seems like a contradiction of his campaign rhetoric that a lot of us liked. Why are we still fighting the cold war? Why are we trying to uphold General Secretary Khrushchev’s maneuver to transfer Crimea from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR? Why are we backing the side with neo-Nazi associations?

    • MVW says:

      Nose holding, stinky, swamp politics is reality. Trump has waded into the Neocon muck to get our domestic agenda passed in the legislature. Thank God for Teflon, soap and water.

  28. dododo says:

    I remember reading that Ukraine has a weak, corrupt govt and is a hotbed of islamic terrorism.

  29. C. Lowell says:

    T-Rex is no John Kerry, that’s for sure,

    And I’m sure this is code for DJT/Putin collusion, but I’ll leave it to the MSM to analyze that…

  30. MaineCoon says:

    Linked is an article which gives basic information about Crimea, its history, relevancy and which US state(s) it is most like.


  31. Sandra-VA says:

    This gives a very good overview of Crimea:


    Also includes the history.

  32. C. Lowell says:

    But I thought DJT was colluding with Russia —

    These comments don’t seem like collusion… Or maybe the Democrats and MSM are lying?

  33. saintoil says:

    I drop in here every now and then since the Tomahawk betrayal to the base to see if your current reactions. So your cheering Trump and Tillerson on now with the hyper Neo Con Job???? So are you guys ready to go to war for the Ukraine neo nazi’s that WE installed????? I don’t hardly recognize my formerly beloved CTH.

  34. saintoil says:

    Hillary and McCain are surely proud of the slow learner Trump turned neo.

  35. saintoil says:

    Are you guys aware that Crimea is mostly Russian speaking and overwhelmingly voted to align with Russia?

    • Sandra-VA says:

      If you had read all the previous comments in this thread you would have noted that this has been pointed out several times. In fact, I have seen this espoused many times in other threads over the months, so I do think most here are educated on the facts regarding Crimea.

  36. Chuck says:

    This is a very troll like post that fits nicely into the current leftist talking points.

  37. saintoil says:

    ‘I don’t think it’s troll like… but…..by taking pro isis rebel, pro EU, pro globalist “GESTURES” he might be stabbing us in the back…….IF he doesn’t stop it ? What makes you think he is going to stop it? Give me one thing that has happened that gives you hope? And do NOT site 4 or 8 D chess. It’s folly, it’s all consistent since the great betrayal took place because Evanka cried and he had a neo conversion from evidence presented from his ENEMIES in the deep state. I am no troll, I was one of his biggest fans before the BETRAYAL. I went to many rallies and gave money. And loved every minute of it. Something happened folks. I voted for America first. There just doesn’t seem to be any debate here about the circumstances of what happened. Just glossing over and hope and wish that it’s some 7 D chess and that he will snap back or say he was hoodwinked by the black hats. I suppose this does fit into leftist talking points and that is the problem. Doing what he did is inconsistent with his promises. I don’t like lefties and Marxist filth but I cannot defend his globalist conversion to their perpetual war and Russiaphobia.

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