Vice President Mike Pence Healthcare Speech In Louisville Kentucky…

On Saturday in Louisville, Ky., Vice President Mike Pence spoke about President Donald Trump’s plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare.  Anyone else notice Kentucky Senators Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul were not present?

.

“The ObamaCare nightmare is about to end. … Virtually every promise with ObamaCare has been broken,” Pence said, adding Kentucky is one of the many states negatively affected by the Affordable Care Act.

Pence promised that ObamaCare would not continue, since it has been a top priority of the Trump administration to repeal and replace the program.

Advertisements
This entry was posted in Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Legislation, media bias, Mike pence, Obamacare, President Trump, Professional Idiots, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

212 Responses to Vice President Mike Pence Healthcare Speech In Louisville Kentucky…

  1. Ryancare is simply Obamacare lite, and it simply will not pass.
    Full repeal of Ocare, then craft a correct health bill that the Senate Ds will surely vote against…
    Then use their intransigence against them in next year’s elections…
    Super majority in the Senate is a worthy goal.
    Otherwise, if Ryancare passes, the Republicans will inherit the full disaster of the previous administration, proving once again: the Rs are their worst enemy.

    Liked by 11 people

    • benifranlkin says:

      Why do you want to make so much work for yourself and then toss your efforts to the wind to see if it all comes down perfectly in place? Not gonna happen as u dream it.
      Trump has to take care of people on OCare now, provide a pathway for people to buy their own insurance if they want it and make sure the Medicaid recipients aren’t stranded.

      Liked by 11 people

      • cwf60 says:

        The Democrats were able to pass this atrocity with no Democrat defections, no prior reading of the bill, and a president who lied about the plan. Seven years of symbolic votes by Republicans to repeal the bill and promises to replace it. Trump is elected President, and the Republicans revert to their same old tired narratives of we can not repeal and replace, it will be years before we can do anything, and the litany of excuses that define them. The anti-Trumpers in the Republican Party were shocked by President Trump’s victory and knew the spotlight would be shined on their hypocrisy and Democrat leanings.
        We shall see what happens.

        Liked by 4 people

        • Trumppin says:

          difference between now and then is NUMBERS…. even if all the GOP agreed on a repeal replace plan they don’t have the NUMBERS to pass it.. What 8 dem’s are going to vote to repeal/replace obamacare?

          Liked by 8 people

          • cwf60 says:

            You are correct that they do not have all Republicans on board. The Republicans do not have the numbers and that works out perfectly for the RINOs who will drag their feet on any agenda item Trump puts forward. We know who and what they are and will continue to support the President in his battle for the people.

            Like

            • Trumppin says:

              even if ALL republicans agreed on one plan they do not have enough votes to pass it.

              Liked by 4 people

              • cwf60 says:

                I agree. What I am trying to say is the Republicans are continuing to bicker amongst themselves, so it leaves the electorate with a feeling of no confidence. We will worry about the Democrats when there is a plan not the other way around.

                Like

          • Trumppin says:

            while I would like to see that happen, and it may – this bill is still being written. I don’t see how i lose if i get great health insurance that is affordable to use…. if i get that what congress gets is irrelevant IMHO

            Liked by 1 person

          • Karen says:

            There is no requirement for 60 votes in our Constitution.It only calls for a simple majority. The 60 vote threshold you hear so much about is a rule that Robert Byrd introduced in 1975 to require 60 votes to end debate(filibuster). The nuclear option is a myth.

            Like

            • Trumppin says:

              please explain how such a rule can be changed back to pre Byrd? and would we want to do that? that would give democrats when they will have power again one day to push through anything they want.. which is why going nuke on this now is the wrong way to go.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Trumppin says:

                how many members x 48 hrs = ? what deadline? – Congress critters can barely put in 8 days a month mind you and there is a deadline with a small window for tax reform – so your argument is a non starter

                Liked by 1 person

                • amjean says:

                  Actually, this is a great idea; let all of
                  them filibuster for 48 hours each.
                  It would be great comedy.

                  Like

                • svenwg says:

                  100 members in the Senate multiplied by 48 hours is 4,800 hours divided by 24 would mean 200 days or 28.5 weeks if they remain in situ 7 days a week, which translates into 7 months of the year debating just one bill, that would have very little chance of passing the way the GOPe is split.

                  The three step way makes it a far simpler operation, especially step two where the Secretary of Health can rewrite 1,600 rules and regulations, basically creating the new Health Care Policy and then once that is running smoothly go to step three and repeal obozzocare and replace with what has already effectively being already put in place.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • Southern Son says:

                IF they get back power in Senate, they will go Nuclear again. Precedent already set.

                Like

            • law4lifeblog says:

              Where are the 51 votes to change the rule, Karen?

              Like

      • camulla says:

        I agree.

        Like

      • artichoke says:

        No he doesn’t have to do that. The Constitution doesn’t contemplate anything like that.

        Like

    • jmuniz1 says:

      They d not want to repeal because they invented it. Go to the Heritage Foundation report in 1998. It is the GOP that has been screwing us four 30+ years.

      Like

    • MVW says:

      I don’t care what gets passed or doesn’t get passed. Trump owns it and the results. It is his job to get it done right. If he doesn’t get it right he’ll have more work to do to fix that. Trump is not the guy to accept failure.

      Liked by 2 people

      • vinchenzer says:

        UNDERSTAND No one here supports RyanCare; it’s really that these “supporters of RyanCare” are putting all of their hope in this “3-Phase Plan” :
        (they are supporters of The Plan NOT RyanCare)
        1. Pass reconciliation legislation targeting the financial mechanisms.
        2. HHS rewrites rules.
        3. New laws are proposed by a full congress to adjust ObamaCare and add to it, and laws debated/passed.

        #3 will be when a stake is put through the heart of ObamaCare alledgedly. I have NO FAITH that this will be done. Past behavior is usually a good indicator of Future behavior. And I don’t think the GOPe just all of a sudden “got some good ole’ MAGA religion”.

        The (fake) “principled” conservatives have a better plan (Rand Paul’s). And it is better than Ryan’s but SD wrote something yesterday that made me think — Rand has no sponsors for his Bill and he is not really trying to gain any. Suspicious behavior – he isn’t serious either IMHO. This is Republicans being their ridiculous selves.

        Again in the end we have to just trust President Trump because he is all we have. I don’t know what is gonna happen after his 8 years are up as President. He is the only one that cares IMHO. The Dims are empty – they gave their all in Obama and FAILED. The GOPe/NTs give me no faith in their abilities — it’s like they don’t want to win or govern or do anything constructve for America — Trump has to force them.

        Liked by 1 person

        • artichoke says:

          I don’t understand something about #2. I was hearing on TV that those changes cannot be announce now, for some reason even if Tom Price wanted to he was statutorily prevented from saying what he would do with regulations.

          Why? Why can’t he outline his plans on regulations? Or is this just more “you’ll have to wait to find out what’s in it?”

          Like

          • vinchenzer says:

            Hmm I didn’t hear that, I was searching for that information but couldn’t find anything. All I found was maybe this is the reason, (article written 2/10/17) “Last week, the Trump administration submitted a proposed rule to the Office of Management and Budget. The details haven’t yet been released to the public, but the rule aims to stabilize the Obamacare markets, likely through the changes reference above.

            Once the details are released, it’s Price who will oversee the efforts to provide relief for insurers” Maybe that is why Price cannot announce anything.

            But Tom Price can do a number on Obamacare all by himself too. So #2 can be used, it sounds like, even if RyanCare is not passed. http://dailysignal.com/2017/02/10/how-tom-price-can-begin-to-unravel-obamacare-from-inside-the-agency-that-implemented-it/

            Liked by 1 person

        • aqua says:

          Well said. And I like how President Trump is telling naysayers to weigh in with their suggestions. If our representatives just whine and don’t recommend solutions, then they should resign from office. I’m sick of the nasty tone and attitudes coming from our paid for, elected representatives.

          Imagine if we tried whining like that just one day at work. We’d be escorted out of the building….

          Lie you, I’m trusting Trump, and know he will give this his all. I also believe he has a plan B if it’s needed. And note that both President and Vice President are working today…along with Trump’s key staff.

          Liked by 2 people

        • mw says:

          I’m not a supporter of Ryancare. I’m a supporter of Trump.

          Liked by 2 people

          • svenwg says:

            In President Donald John Trump we place our trust. He has final say of what will replace Obozzocare and I personally believe he will sign nothing into law until the plan meets his objectives 100%.

            Like

      • Obama owns PPACA not Trump . President Trump did run on Repeal and Replace . No one like Ryan or Ryan Care , It would not matter id the Bill was called Cruzcare , Kasich care , Rubio care the ” plan ” to repeal would be the same as We Do NOT have 60 votes for a clean repeal . Period

        The 2016 GOP Repeal was a Budgetary Reconciliation Bill vetoed by “KING ” Obama. Once a Reconciliation Bill is vetoed its Dead , done ! A new Reconciliation or resolution needs to be written and that is what the Ryan Bill is …
        Its the only way to begin to dismantle Obamacare right now, We could wait and hope that we gain (8) seats or better but , then what ? Another year of legislation !

        Personally , I do not care if it implodes as I am w/o care that was stolen from me due to Obamacare . I worked and paid into BCBS PPO for over 35 years It was 698.00 a month for two adults prior to ACA , then 1300.00 a month , to 1700.00 a month and , if I wanted to keep it last Dec. it would have cost me 3600.00 a month !
        ACA was no better in premium cost with a 10,000 deductible , loss of my physicians and hospital .
        This is NOT Trumps Fault !
        Obama , the DNC that passed without reading and the GOP that funded the Bill PPACA OWN THIS MESS !

        Liked by 1 person

    • sundance says:

      What part of full repeal of ObamaCare not having enough votes do you not understand?

      They don’t even have 40 votes in the Senate for “full repeal”.

      You’re flogging a dead horse.

      Liked by 14 people

      • azgary says:

        and thats why it should just be left to die on its own, its on life support as is.

        pull the plug and let it go.

        more leverage to replace that way

        Liked by 2 people

        • camulla says:

          I disagree. Think about the numbers of people who can’t get treatment and would lose insurance if the Republicans do nothing. Now is the time to do something so that journalists don’t put the consequences of doing nothing on Republicans. Some of us said that we needed to vote for Republicans, and now we have the consequences, like this, of other Republicans losing their Senate races. The Freedom Caucus people wanted Paul Ryan to be speaker and rationalized that he was the best option after John Boehner retired. If we want different representation, WE have to go to local meetings, sacrifice entertainment, and rearrange our priorities. We are responsible for our representation, and we shouldn’t fault Republicans in Congress for our failures and refusals to find good representation.

          Liked by 8 people

          • nhgardengram says:

            Problem with your solution, Agzary, is that the MSM will make SURE that President Trump is blamed for “letting it fail” and not fixing it. He owns healthcare now, and he knows it. Trust in his approach and negotiation skills. He’s won so far hasn’t he?

            Liked by 8 people

            • wolfmoon1776 says:

              Absolutely right – if Obamacare fails outright for ANY reason, they will blame Trump and the moonbats will have narrative where they have NOTHING right now. I could write the Democrat attack ads myself. No – people who think they’re smarter than Trump on this – sorry, but no.

              There is a reason that Rand Paul is not President. He’s a lovable ideologue, not a tactician. Trump got more out of military school than most military. And he is modeling his approach on successful wars, avoiding the pitfalls of the failures.

              There is a reason Dem trolls are trying to push Trump’s supporters into bad tactics. I refuse to be a part of it. Trump sees the winning path, and I’m starting to see it too. The fact that Trump saw it a long time ago, apparently, is more than impressive, but I think he had help from one of the very old enemies of Ocare, who is also a master tactician. In fact, let me say this.

              I believe that Trump would be following a similar path, even if he had the votes to do a full repeal right now.

              If you disagree, then I suggest you are not considering two things: (1) 100% assurance that we never get into single payer, no matter how ALL things turn out, and (2) greatest chance for the ENTIRE Trump agenda to succeed YUGELY. Factor those in, and this path makes the most sense.

              Liked by 6 people

          • bulwarker says:

            Meh, you’re free to do as you’re told and vote for whomever THEY choose. Just look at how many grassroot republican candidates were undermined by the republican party (pulling funding, supporting the democrat, running spoilers, smearing in the press). Unfortunately it takes big money to run for office despite some good candidates.

            As for people who won’t get treatment/lose insurance if things stay the same – I don’t think there is 100% certainty this will be fixed short of Ryan getting to step 3 of his plan. Some people will still see premiums rise and options limited, others will have the same terrible experience they currently have with medicaid/low-quality plans. Tough decisions all around. I’ve said before I’d rather leave Obamacare to die as is, with Democrats on the hook (and a rallying cry for 2018) while Repubs work on tax reform but I will back whatever Republican plan ultimately comes down because what other option do we have?

            Liked by 1 person

            • camulla says:

              The insurance bill affects tax reform. People need to find people to get elected to positions in local Republican parties, too, so that the leadership is different and has no opportunities to put establishment candidates in office. The government we have is “of the people” according to our founding documents, so having apathetic attitudes just helps the same candidates win and keeps the same GOP leadership in place.

              Like

              • bulwarker says:

                Everything affects tax reform, its a bad excuse. Obamacare is a huge concern (relating to taxes) only if the Republicans want to pass tax reform without 60 votes (aka by reconciliation like they are trying to do with Obamacare). I am simply advocating Republicans put out the tax reform bill as summarized here https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/trump-tax-reform.pdf and try to pass it the old fashion way, working to get some Democrat support to break 60, which I think is possible given the last election. While the administration uses its capital to move forward gimmick-free tax reform they lessen the attention on Obamacare and use tax reform as their 2018 platform.
                What is a worse media narrative: Trump is responsible for your terrible healthcare and wants grandma and children to die or Trump is giving tax breaks to the wealthy/corporations. The former occurs with Obamacare being the Republican focus, the latter if its tax reform – I think more people are numb and apathetic to tax reform than healthcare. This is all just spit balling though as we already know the direction Republicans are taking.

                Like

          • artichoke says:

            Yes some people will have a rough time. But if the Reps can’t agree, then they can’t agree. I think the time is not ripe for this change politically, and we’ll go down in flames with O’Care then address it next year again when people are really willing to deal.

            Like

        • President Trump has explained that also how many times now he love to sit back and watch it implode he can’t because people would be even more hurt then what they currently are with obamacare. There is a lot wrapped into the horrible obamacare he sees the big picture.

          Liked by 6 people

        • We cannot just let it die……Would you want to go into the midterms or the 2020 elections with the charge you stripped 30 million people of their health insurance?

          Me neither…..

          Liked by 4 people

          • artichoke says:

            The Dems will be voting against this, and most Reps will vote for it, so even it fails the blame is mostly on Dem candidates for reelection.

            Like

          • dbobway says:

            If we go into 2020 and Phase 3 hasn’t bean running for at least 2 years we are screwed as well.This was written in a locked room. We don’t know what we are getting in phase 2. Phase 3 is what Trump ran on.

            First we stop pushing. That won’t work either.

            Layout the plan with all 3 phases.

            We need 8 votes. Send Trump out to get them. Lay out what is about to happen in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Aetna , Metlife, Travelers, none to big to fail. The insurance companies bought into this, if they fail, they can pound sand.

            Target these 8 people. Tell their constituents what’s going to happen to their insurance.
            Make the POINT if we don’t change it, it will fail and layout a step by step process of how that is going to happen.

            If we can’t get the votes, move on to this. “The Simple Way to Repeal Obamacare”

            http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422085/can-reconciliation-repeal-obamacare

            Then we have done everything we could do.

            It will still be Obamacare, and the Democrats and the Rhinos will own it.

            Like

      • “What part of full repeal of ObamaCare not having enough votes do you not understand?”

        You are talking to a

        Liked by 6 people

        • amjean says:

          The brick wall is the theory
          that Obamacare cannot be repealed and
          replaced. It can; perhaps not in the
          traditional sense, however, with some
          creativity I bet someone can/will come up
          with a plan.

          I never liked it when people give up to soon.
          And NOW Paul Ryan is our health care
          savior? I think not.

          A part of me thinks that in order to pass
          other future issues, Trump thinks he
          should not piss off Paul Ryan right now
          with this Rinolite Care bill.

          Let others in congress and the American
          public hash this out and let Ryan know its
          a no go.

          Liked by 1 person

      • The Ghost Formerly Known as Prince says:

        Not to mention, this is the HOUSE bill, and it hasn’t even gone through the full “regular order” in the House yet. Some of the most objectionable parts of “Ryancare” can be mitigated or eliminated (or replaced with something less “Obamacare-y”) during House passage, and even those might get “reconciled” out of the Senate bill.

        What Ryan has proposed could morph substantially, and so long as it retains those parts that make it a “privileged” bill that can be voted under the “reconciliation” rules then it fits the “Three Prong” approach.

        The key thing is, gut Obamacare and then let Dr. Price get to work using the broad dictatorial “… Secretary shall determine” latitude that Obama, Reid, and Pelosi NEVER dreamed would fall into the hands of a GOP president and HHS Secretary, let alone a President like Trump and a Secretary like Dr. Price.

        Liked by 2 people

        • svenwg says:

          The way I see it, is that the Ryan Bill is the vehicle to defund Obozzocare, once that gets passed, Dr Price will be allowed to tamper with the regulations, penalties and 1,000s of detail that basically strips Obozzocare of everything it is, but cannot change the rules regarding the buying of insurance across borders as well as keeping ones own doctor or plan.

          Once Obozzocare is defunded, the premiums will go into orbit as there will be no government funding to make up the massive shortfall. At that point the country’s citizens will almost revolt and place all the blame on the Dems for passing the Bill in the first place, just in time for the midterm elections. During this time the Tax Bill will have passed both the Senate and Congress with it’s massive cuts to both business and individuals, stimulating the economy beyond what even the President Trump supporters imagine and those dimwits that benefit from the new found wealth will vote Republican, or refrain from voting, same thing.

          Once President Trump has vetted the people that will be running in the midterms, as well as not endorsing those that are a blockage to his agenda, there is a chance that the 60 seat majority will be achieved, if not there will be a few Dims that will realise that if they do not back the new Health Bill they will be gone come 2020, making it almost certain that the new replacement Healthcare Bill will pass and there it is. Another President Trump success story.

          Like

      • MVW says:

        Folks, not to worry, Trump will get the votes he needs to get the bill that is needed to unburden small business and enable business to hire full time workers instead of part timers.

        Yes, it will likely be close to the current bill, and yes Rand and conservative will back it. Wait and see.

        Later if more bill improvement is needed, after 2018 there will be more Senate Repubs. And DhimmiRats will be more willing to work, (or not in which care Dhimmi’s will crater even more).

        Liked by 3 people

      • Karen says:

        12 Republicans in the Senate would vote against? After making that promise in 4 elections? Who?

        Like

      • Mickey Wasp says:

        You are good Sundance … very good, at forcing an explosion about Ryan or Rand Care, yet so silent about the movement of troops and drugs within the ‘deep state’ …

        President Trump is going to allow the R and D’s to shit in their pants and then fall back in it. We all know that. Yet, you neglect the ‘deep state’ and ‘money financiers’ of the “trillions of dollars at stake” meme that you present – and it never includes the drug or weapons movements … Are you scared?

        “Trillions of Dollars at Stake” – from Sundance and CTH – yet no mention or analysis and links to the serious monies of weapons and drugs … pussy’s.

        Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          I guarantee you Sundance is not scared. He puts a lot of research and investigation into his articles. When he is satisfied that he has concrete facts on the deep state, money fananciers, etc, he will address it. I have watched him over the years enough to know this. His Benghazi Brief alone wasn’t written overnight. A couple of years of research went into this article about the splitter strategy during the 2016 election. If you want to read about the things you are complaining about there’s plenty of articles on the net about them but whether they are factual or not I wonder.

          You are a guest here on Sundance’s blog, on his front porch. Calling him and his crew a nasty name is just plain bad manners.

          Liked by 1 person

      • CleanhouseinDC says:

        Sorry Sundance, but I’m not sure I can agree with you on this one. Do you honestly feel that replacing bad legislation with a Republican version of more bad legislation, and a promise of a beautiful future, when there is only a historical record of broken promises (which is all we’ve gotten from Ryan/McConnell) is supported? While I believe POTUS has the right intent, I don’t think he has the real support from Congress that can ever get this beast past some of Phase 2 (Based on their past efforts, I can see Ryan/McConnell somewhere trying to stop Secretary Price from doing his Phase 2 magic).

        Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        This poor dead horse has been beat over and over for days. The abused just can’t seem to see this clearly or logically. I think they may be a lost cause on this subject.

        Liked by 1 person

    • William Ford says:

      I hate O-care as much as anyone. But if you think repeal with no replacement (because Dems will block any replace in Senate) is a winning political strategy….well I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you. The GOP will get destroyed from the resulting pain & suffering that will occur to millions and we can bye bye to the House in 2018. Same way Dems lost the House in 2010. Let’s be smart and pass a replacement that actually works and doesn’t throw millions off their insurance coverage, even crappy O-care coverage.

      Liked by 2 people

      • camulla says:

        It’s March 2017 now, and primaries start in a few months. Are we working on finding candidates now? The establishment of both parties is, so we need to start thinking about the general election in 2018, when Republicans could lose Congress.

        Liked by 1 person

      • singingsoul says:

        Ethically POTUS cannot allow the Obama care to just fail and leave people without a healthcare. Trump is the leader and a responsible leader does not willfully cause harm.
        As a Christian I reject totally to cause such harm.
        POTUS is doing the best for us under the circumstances. He did not create the mess and it seems the Rinos and the purists do not give a fling. We now see the character of people we put into office. Both sides of republicans should be hiding. The democrats are a total loss .
        Just keep track who supports POTUS and who does not. They need to be pummeled until they see the light.

        Like

      • artichoke says:

        Not sure about Dems blocking replacement it in the Senate, if it’s that or nothing. In 2018, a lot of Dems are up for reelection.

        Like

    • Setup2100 says:

      SD is right on RINOCARE and looking at the end result. People, deplorables are not buying into it because they do not trust RYAN to do phase 2 let alone phase 3. We been lied to so many times by the GOPe and that time has ended. What might help is TRUMP not RYAN or some other RINOGOPe member do the following: 1. If RINOCARE is implemented all waviers of OBAMACARE are gone immediately including politicans and there staffs. They are now on RINOCARE, no exceptions! 2. TRUMP gives deadlines when Phase 2 and Phase 3 get implemented. No different than building a Real Estate project. Finished on time and under budget. If TRUMP can commit to that, then maybe some support will be generated for the end result of RINOCARE. TRUMP will own it then if he likes it or not.

      Like

      • artichoke says:

        It’s Tom Price that’s supposed to work the magic in Phase 2, but we’re told he is not even allowed to say what he would do. That makes no sense, why would it be illegal for him to say what he will aim for with regulations?

        Like

        • svenwg says:

          Because if he did, it would impact the whole process of phase one being just a defunding bill in essence. If he were to publicly state what he is going to do to Obozzocare up front, the dimrats would say that it was not a reconciliation bill, but a replacement bill that requires the 60 votes to stop the filibuster. It is that simple.

          Like

      • Karen says:

        This deplorable isn’t buying into it on it’s own lack of merit.

        Like

    • E C says:

      If you do nothing, people will still have high premiums/deductibles. I think maybe there’s a fallacy that removing Obamacare and having nothing resets the clock to before Obamacare. We can’t go back in time to 2008 as if nothing changed, as if there were no casualties from this law.

      If you let it collapse and do nothing, then I’d have to agree it is the republican’s fault and let blood land where it may.

      Like

    • Mike24 says:

      I agree PaleRider. Why is Pence pushing Ryancare? I found this quote:

      “It’s a stinking pile of garbage. …It’s not a Republican, conservative bill. …One thing that I’ve maintained is that this bill was written with the help of the insurance companies, just like Obamacare. That’s why it looks so similar.“ — Republican Rep Thomas Massie on the new GOP healthcare bill

      Again, its all about the insurance companies and bailing them out a 2nd time with taxpayer money. Who gets their money from insurance co’s? Ryan and the GOPe. This is why I don’t like this bill. Get rid of Ocare. Use the Rand bill in the Senate and the Freedom Caucus’s bill in the house (that passed in 2015). Pence is a real problem here by yakking in Trump’s ear that this is the way to go when it will lead to massive midterm losses for republicans who have to go back and say nothing’s really changed (to appease the left so they won’t scream grandma is going over the cliff) which will infuriate those that wanted a change to Ocare.

      Liked by 1 person

    • domain496 says:

      I believe they’re going to pass it. They (Republicans) can’t help themselves. They never met a foot of their own they didn’t shoot. I personally believe how Trump handles this will be the determining factor of his administrations survivability into a 2nd term…possibly the factor by which this one is ultimately judged.

      Like

  2. Stated correctly: the Rs are their own worst enemy.
    (Sundance, any chance of an ‘edit’ option in the future?)

    Liked by 5 people

    • SandraOpines says:

      This is an excellent blog post at Cowboy Libertarian “Remember the Words of The Gipper”

      …. Republicans should heed the words of Ronald Reagan who 50 years ago this April in 1967 shortly after he was sworn in as Governor told a group of California conservatives the following:

      “Within our tent there will be many arguments and divisions over approach and method and even those we choose to implement our philosophy. Seldom, if ever, will we raise a cheer signifying unanimous approval of the decisions reached. But if our philosophy is to prevail, we must at least pledge unified support of the ultimate decision. Unity does not require unanimity of thought”.

      Reagan was interested in getting the job done and advancing conservative ideals.

      But he also understood the limitations of what was politically possible. He also understood that change wouldn’t come with the passage of one or two pieces of legislation. And if you didn’t get everything the first time you kept coming back.

      Today’s crop of Republicans who love to quote Reagan should read what he actually said and understand its meaning.

      So here is your Cowboy Wisdom for the Week.

      “Only a buzzard feeds on their friends”.

      Republicans need to stop feeding on each other which only gives comfort to Democrats, the New York Times and the Washington establishment.

      They ought to be feeding on the decaying carcass of the Democrat Party by passing legislation that will help lift up those desperate Americans who put their faith in them at the ballot box last November.

      They have been handed a golden opportunity to restore America.

      If they fail they will only have to look in the mirror to find someone to blame.

      The choice is simple. Be bold or be gone.
      http://cowboylibertarian.com/blog/post/2017/03/11/Remember-the-Words-of-The-Gipper.aspx

      Liked by 2 people

      • camulla says:

        Remember, if we don’t work to find good candidates in the primaries, Democrats would get back control of Congress, so we need to stop complaining on the Internet, go to meetings, and recruit good candidates who can win. We shouldn’t complain when we refuse to get involved and think we are not somewhat responsible for this situation.

        Liked by 1 person

        • RichieM says:

          The Tea party found a few good candidates.
          Who went to DC, inhaled sweet Swamp gas and stabbed us in the back.

          Like

          • camulla says:

            RichieM, it’s about getting people elected to local and state leadership of the GOP, too, so that the composition of the leadership is different. I understand how hard this is going to be, but we need to make an effort (go to meetings, find candidates, get elected to committees and offices, etc.) instead of just complaining.

            Like

      • azgary says:

        how did that work out for Reagan and amnesty and the promises made to him in return for giving amnesty, which has cost us california and may yet cost the nation.

        these people are not gods nor infallible.

        Like

        • RichieM says:

          Reagan got snookered because he made the mistake of thinking he’d made a deal with honorable Demonrats on the Left.

          Today there are NO honorable people on the Left.

          Like

        • amjean says:

          Good point! People support and vote for a
          candidate and somewhere in the process
          feel the candidate can do no wrong.

          It is up to we citizen voters to help our
          candidates run the country, coming up with
          ideas and solutions, letting them know when
          they are on the right track with the American
          people; also, let them know when they are
          steering off track.

          This “I trust Trump” so I am not going to
          even research, question, get educated, etc.
          is not helpful. We all ultimately trust Trump,
          however, he is human and can listen to the
          wrong people and make mistakes just like
          the rest of us. However, when our government
          makes a mistake, we citizens always pay the
          price.

          Discussion is always the best way to solution.
          Quit knocking people who think Ryan’s way
          is the wrong way.

          Like

      • azgary says:

        I imagine the question to be rhetorical, the answer is republicans HATE Trumps base:

        Rush Limbaugh on Obamacare 2.0: ‘Why Do the Republicans Want to Hurt Trump’s Base?’

        Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh questioned why Congressional Republicans seem determined to inflict pain on Trump’s economically-struggling base with their healthcare bill on Friday.
        https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/03/10/the-limbaugh-health-care-reform-plan/

        Like

      • Toronto Tonto says:

        Reagan also passed amnesty, liked the New Deal and never reduced spending.

        Like

      • mw says:

        Thank you! Geesh. Let’s stop eating our own and being Monday morning quarterbacks. Unless you’ve ever tried to drain the D.C. swamp, I’m so not interested in your criticism of our relentless winner, Trump. As for this deplorable, I’m not a supporter of Ryan’s bill. But if Trump wants it passed, I for sure have his back. The whining is tiresome. Would the naysayer’s rather have Hillary? Cause if Trump’s plan is torpedoed, she’ll be back.

        Like

    • justfactsplz says:

      It’s a word press thing not this site. Word press doesn’t utilize edit buttons. It’s a bummer I know.

      Like

  3. azgary says:

    relying on future legislative actions is a YUGE mistake.

    I know we all voted for and like what Trump was saying, but he is in a world of viscous snakes and scorpions and he is not infallible.

    obamacare 2.0 is unacceptable, relying on ryan/mcconnel is unacceptable.

    let obamacare die of natural causes as its close to doing.

    we love Trump, but hes just a man, the echo chamber and trashing people opposed to this action is getting kind of old, the time to make a difference is BEFORE the actions have taken place, ryancare is bad.

    learn from experiences here folks.

    Too bad their were not more pearl clutching, fainting couch occupying, should have voted mondale whiners out there when Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals and not getting the other part of the “bargain” he struck in the process.

    but its ok, reagn knew what he was doing, is a god, 4D chess master yada yada yada…..
    we know this, he was even great enough to give us the bushes.

    infallible, just like Trump.

    and this is not a hit on Trump, but the growing sycophancy needs to stop, reality and accountability needs to replace it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • sundance says:

      Ryancare is better than ObamaCare.

      Secretary Price’s stage two modifications will be better than ObamaCare and RyanCare.

      Both the budget and the tax reform initiatives are dependent on the financial problems inherent within ObamaCare being addressed first.

      Liked by 14 people

      • azgary says:

        without legislative fixes, anything price does can be undone by the next secretary.

        all this will end up being is a repair to obamacare making it permanent, bailing out ins. companies with tax dollars.

        as i said, relying on a legislature that loves obamacare is a yuge mistake.

        just let obamacare die instead of rebranding it.

        Like

        • azgary …. one big problem: you let Obama Care die or collapse; guess who gets blamed for it???? No not the demoncrats, Pres. Trump and the Repubs.

          Liked by 2 people

        • The Ghost Formerly Known as Prince says:

          Well then the GOP had better do a REALLY GOOD JOB leading up to the 2018 midterms, and get to 60 votes in the Senate.

          Unlike so many “Rs” Donald Trump is not ashamed to toot his own horn and claim credit for the party.

          I still cringe when I recall the GOP Senator who jumped ship in the leadup to the midterms (I forget which ones … 2006? 2010? 2014?). The Democrats had a real problem, and the more partisan GOP was ready to club them with with it all the way to election day. Then this tool (it wasn’t McCain, but it might have been Lindsey Graham) joined with the Democrats to help defuse the ticking time bomb, chiding his colleagues for “playing politics” instead of “doing the People’s business” and “solving the problem”.

          Like

        • Deadbeat says:

          Then you have to make sure that the Republicans have a supermajority in the Congress so that Obamacare can be fully repealed. But for now we have to accept this process to unwind the aspects of OCare with the current vote threshold of 51 Senate Republicans.

          Liked by 1 person

        • And just lose the gains we have made in the house and Senate because we stripped poor people of their health coverage? No thank you.

          Like

      • tellthetruth2016 says:

        I agree SD…. I will support whatever TRUMP tells us we need to pass in order for him to fix this mess….

        Liked by 1 person

      • Toronto Tonto says:

        If it’s so great, pass a clean repeal deal and debate the merits of this plan. No passing it to see what’s in it. If you can’t get the votes for repeal, then let it die on its own and then talk about how you’ll fix it. The Democrats own this 100%.

        Like

    • nhgardengram says:

      I think Trump’s statement about ‘it is a start’, says it all. He is actively seeking others’ ideas; he’ll make them put up or shut up by giving them all a chance to ‘be on the stage’. He will pit them against each other and make them ‘compete’ for the best ideas just like he does in business, ending up with the best solution. And he will do it in the public’s eye; no hiding behind their party. At least, that’s what I’m hoping for.

      So when the GOPe’s say they don’t like it; they need to provide THEIR solution to the American people. Just repealing it will NOT fly with the public, because it is not practical. Letting it fail and blaming the Democrats when they could have done something with it won’t fly with the public either. He’s taking the best path available to him as President. Just help out with any ideas you can contribute, and pray for his success.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. EWSoCal says:

    I saw an interview in which Rand Paul didn’t seem to be afraid of repeal then replace. Even when challenged with the “but but but millions will lose their healthcare!”

    Actually millions may lose their health +insurance+. Small difference.

    I guess my point is I found it brave of Rand Paul to be willing to tell people “no” at least that’s how I interpreted it.

    Like

  5. AFVet says:

    OT but I wanted to pass this along.
    This concerns government overspending and the massive challenge it will be to stop it.

    https://www.cagw.org/critical-waste-115th

    Like

  6. The whole argument, “but x million people will lose their health insurance” is a canard. There are already safety nets at the state and federal level for the poor and destitute to get care if they need it. There are also millions of people who choose not to have health insurance but can afford it. As soon as people realize the federal government is getting out of the health insurance business I guarantee you people will wake up and start doing things on their own.

    Trump should be focusing all his attention on tax cuts, job stimulation, and the disassembling of the regulatory state. Everything else is a detriment to his presidency.

    Liked by 2 people

    • jmuniz1 says:

      I agree 100%

      Liked by 1 person

    • sundance says:

      You do realize the Budget and any Tax Reform plan is dependent on ObamaCare modifications right?

      ObamaCare is a tax.

      If you want Trump to focus on tax cuts, you have to deal with the biggest “tax drivers”, and that requires addressing ObamaCare.

      The budget and tax reform are intertwined with ObamaCare.

      Liked by 11 people

      • jmuniz1 says:

        than he should let it implode and the politicians that were against it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • MVW says:

        I’ll say it again. Trump owns the whole thing. This is not a one shot deal. If he gets 60% this go, the next go maybe 20% more, etc. until he gets everything needed to make America Great. There is always executive action in the interim, like he has done already.

        Liked by 3 people

        • AFVet says:

          There are senate rules that need to be considered.
          If they jump the gun, the whole thing will be an effort in futility.
          It should be simpler but it’s not.
          There isn’t a big enough republican majority in the senate for a slam dunk.

          Like

      • bulwarker says:

        For those who care to know WHY Obamacare is the current priority:

        Over the past two years, both the House and Senate passed bills repealing Obamacare, with the vast majority of Republicans voting for them.
        The GOP also moved several piecemeal bills (or at least held hearings on them) in the House. Bottom line, they thought the groundwork was already laid on the issue and, believe it or not, there was far more internal consensus on Obamacare than tax reform.
        Rep. Kevin Brady, the chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said Wednesday as his committee took its first action on the repeal proposal: “It follows nearly 200 hearings held in the House since Obamacare’s enactment — over 35 in our Committee alone — as well as numerous Ways and Means bills considered and approved by the House.”
        Trump has said as recently as Tuesday, however, that he knows what kind of tax plan he wants after Obamacare’s repeal is finished.
        “As you know, after that we work on the tax cut,” Trump said during a meeting Tuesday in the East Room with the GOP House Whip team. “We’re going to be planning a major tax cut. I know exactly what we’re looking at. Most of us know exactly the plan. It’s going to put our country in great shape and we’re going to reduce taxes for companies and for people, and I can use the word again, massively.”
        Third: Procedurally, Republicans have left themselves no choice
        As soon as Republicans passed a budget resolution in January that included reconciliation instructions related to Obamacare, they were locked into this window.
        As it stands, Hill leaders are doing Obamcare repeal-plus under the fiscal year 2017 budget window. So long as they want to pass this proposal only needing 51 votes in the Senate, they must do Obamacare repeal now.
        The minute they move onto the next fiscal year’s budget, those January instructions disappear, as does their window to advance repeal with a simple majority.
        Along those same lines, they also want to move tax reform via reconciliation for the same simple majority vote reasons. This explains why the window for Obamacare action is so small right now: Republicans move now or they lose the ability to do it all together, or they resubmit reconciliation instructions on Obamacare in fiscal year 2018 and lose the ability to tax reform via that mechanism.
        Rock, meet hard place.
        On top of all of that, there’s one final, not-so-small issue: the in-the-weeds budgetary mechanism that is reconciliation contains a key restriction. The procedure requires, over the long-term, the bill to reduce the deficit over a period of time. Moving the Obamacare bill would, as designed, reduce taxes while reducing spending. This drop in the overall baseline would allow Republicans to pursue a central element of their tax reform priorities: making it revenue neutral….
        http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/tax-reform-obamacare-congress-republicans/

        Trump should be releasing part one of his 2 part Tax Reform plan soon (second comes end of April) so it will be interesting to see how everything lines up. I think we can all agree Republicans in Congress need to be better at messaging and showing a unified front publicly even if that’s not the case behind the scenes.

        Like

      • backseatdog says:

        Sundance you are right. Obamacare is a smoke and mirrors. It’s just a big TAX on the people. They could care less about your health. It’s all about the money and how much they can get in their pockets.PDT knows this and it has to be dealt with because it affects his jobs bill, the jobs he is creating and the company’s who are creating those jobs.

        Like

      • paper doll says:

        Exactly. He can’t get his tax plan though without dealing with this and, correct me if I’m wrong, President’s Trump’s plans for the return of jobs depend on him getting his tax reforms though.

        Liked by 1 person

      • JC says:

        Yes, SD. BHO, John Roberts, Pelosi and all Dems really set us up and created one huge, unholy and inhumane mess. Unlike BHO, President Trump is a law-and-order President and therefore must follow the law to untangle it. It’s the vileness of OCare and its inherently impossible consequences that preclude an immediate, all-out repeal. No one wants or likes it, but we have to work with what we have and what the law dictates.

        Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        That’s right. And I want a doggone budget. I haven’t seen one in nearly a decade and I want one!

        Like

    • The problem is ObamaCare is so tied up in tax policy, you have to deal with it before you can do tax cuts.

      Like

  7. Rand Paul is great. He lists all of these great ideas. Then someone asks him how he is going to get 60 votes in the Senate. He says “It’s not my fault if people don’t vote for it”.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Bubba says:

    No idea if you’re analysis is correct or not? If it is correct, then Trump needs to know about this. I don’t think that there’s any way to produce and pass a “great’ repeal/replace plan with these idiots in congress. Many of them are using the supposedly difficult repeal/replace process as a way to obfuscate and delay and corrupt the outcome.

    Like

  9. Don Iverson says:

    Repeal it, period. Any attempt at replacement will not produce anything worthwhile, it is against Congress’ (unpublished) mandate to destroy the middle class. How many governmental programs need to fail before we realize that is their ultimate intention? The federal government needs to be reined in, the more power they are unconstitutionally granted to meddle in our lives, the worse the results for all Americans.

    Like

    • MIKE says:

      How?
      We don’t have the votes.
      We don’t have the votes.
      We don’t have the votes.

      Liked by 8 people

      • Dan says:

        Is this proven? Is it a fact, like gravity, that no Democrats will vote for something better? They may indeed not vote for this because its not any better.

        Obamacare was/is devastating to Democrats. It put Scott Brown into Ted Kennedy’s seat in Massachusetts for a term.

        During the Obama years, the Democrat Party lost 12 governorships, 900 state legislature seats, 69 House seats and 13 Senate seats. Big chunk of it is obviously due to Obamacare.

        Its financially unraveling now.

        Yet somehow its an “inevitable-just-lay-back-and-enjoy-it-known-fact” that Democrats will absolutely refuse something better. So certain is it, a better approach doesn’t even need to be provided as an option to consider and go on record with!

        Yes, it is so absolutely certain we don’t have the votes to repair a failing, bankrupt system, we might as well just get on board ourselves. Fix some marginal problems like making it illegal to ask about enrollee immigration status, etc. That will really help in 2018. We saved Obamacare!

        Because everything is all a big Jenga puzzle … no tax reform and no budget reform without saving Obamacare! Because these things are impossible, just like anti-gravity! Legislation is as immutable … like trying to make red green. Because we know it in our heads so it must be true even without trying a good alternative. Plus, its urgent it be done right away! Especially before people start looking at the situtation too closely.

        Like

        • You are assuming that Democrats have common sense. They don’t. They will not even sit down with our side to talk about it……. Don’t look that direction for any help on this.

          Liked by 1 person

        • AFVet says:

          From what I have seen watching the senate confirmation hearings, democrats are prone to a herd mentality.
          Commonsense is a remote concept to them.

          Like

        • The Ghost Formerly Known as Prince says:

          The “piecemeal” bills the GOP has in the works can be inserted as riders on other omnibus bills that “must pass”. They can also get written in during the reconciliation process on other legislation. So there are many, many paths to getting the piecemeal reforms into law.

          But the silver bullet to slay Obamacare is this Ryancare turd. So be it. Take the shot and then full steam ahead.

          Liked by 1 person

      • The Ghost Formerly Known as Prince says:

        Hey … you know who else didn’t have the votes? Donald Trump.

        That’s why the smart money was on Jeb! from day one.

        Like

  10. US says:

    Go with President Trump on this one.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Amen…..He is trying to give us exactly what he promised in the campaign. I supported him then and I support him now. He can’t help that he is surrounded by idiots.

      Liked by 5 people

      • singingsoul says:

        I agree and I reming myself we did not vote for a dictator but people are behaving as if he should be. People forgot when they criticize POTUS that there are three branches that govern. POTUS only can do what he can and if some republicans are selfish he cannot firer them only we can. I know why I never became republican because of the Freedom Caucus. I do not like people who are so stuck in their ideology that they are not willing to comprehend the bigger picture.

        Liked by 2 people

  11. missmarple2 says:

    Sundance,

    I have to give you a lot of praise for your patience. I think I have counted at least 3 long explanations, with details, about reconciliation and filibuster and why this has to be done in stages. You also have given short explanations on many threads, like I see you have done on this one.

    And still, there are people who simply WILL NOT understand why this is being done this way.Frankly, I would be tearing my hair out by now. Thanks for all you do!

    Liked by 16 people

    • camulla says:

      I ask those who are frustrated with this process to stop faulting Congress and start working to get good candidates in office instead of complaining.

      Liked by 2 people

      • MIKE says:

        Our Presidents’ plan is contingent on us getting the word out to clean house and senate in 2018. We must campaign and vote to oust as many swamp critters as we can. No backsliding. Our fate is in many states’ hands. KY WI NH AK UT come to mind. Hope we don’t let .45 down.

        Liked by 2 people

        • AFVet says:

          10 senators are up for re-election in states that Trump won.
          Hopefully the voters will retire them and the majority will become a bit more comfortable.

          Like

          • camulla says:

            I agree, but there is work to do to make sure people who aren’t informed learn the same things we have and don’t trust what the press puts out in 2018 prior to the election about Republicans.

            Like

    • And we don’t know if they (SD) is follicle challenged?

      Like

    • JC says:

      I agree, MM. Either President Trump is a law-and-order President or he isn’t. Thumbing our noses at the law like BHO and Dems did (and do) only drags us down to their repulsive level and does not bring lasting change. Following Constitutional law is our only real hope.

      SD has thoroughly explained the tangled web of legally righting a horrific and illegal wrong. I would like nothing better than to stomp my foot and throw out OCare immediately, and with a flourish. Unfortunately, it’s not about what I want but what must be done. Our consolation: President Trump is committed to doing what’s best for us, and he listens.

      Like

  12. Howie says:

    At this point just pass something quick. The RINOS want to stall til Christmas to get their graft.

    Like

  13. RF121 says:

    This is why I think Trumps initial instinct was right. Do nothing and let it fail. The democrats still own it and they can come begging for a fix. This 3 part fix maybe the best “solution” but it will still not remove it all and for part 3 there are not 60 votes to do anything. As soon as we play with this we own it and in 2018 the dems and media will beat the house repubs over the head with it.

    Liked by 3 people

    • missmarple2 says:

      The only way I can see that working is if the president went on national television with an easily understood explanation of why it is failing, with appropriate help offered for those who are trapped in Obamacare.

      If he came on television and explained it, and also pointed out that those who are in employer programs or Medicaid or Medicare needn’t worry, perhaps then he could be a hero to those whose plans are so bad and/or failing. Maybe give them Medicaid for 1 year while they create a new plan.

      I don’t know if that is feasible, but if you let it fail without getting out in front and explaining WHY it is failing, and help those people who lose their plans, you are going to see the democrats blame him.

      Liked by 1 person

      • nhgardengram says:

        Missmarple2, President Trump has already done this…no choice in insurance co., higher premiums sometimes by over 100% increase, no choice in doctors, doctors leaving the practice. He also pointed out that Medicaid would be continued. So, I guess you didn’t hear it. Not surprised; as MSM doesn’t report what he ACTUALLY is saying. I have heard him on several occasions; most of them from meetings posted here from the WH, and on Fox Business.

        Liked by 1 person

        • missmarple2 says:

          I wasn’t clear. Yes, I know he has said this and have seen it. He needs, however, an Oval Office address to make sure lots of eyeballs are watching, in prime time.

          Clips here and there whether on CTH or Fox don’t get the message out in total to a wider audience, which is what needs to be done.

          Liked by 3 people

          • camulla says:

            I think addresses are a good idea and that prime time statements should be used to get out the message. Thanks for posting this comment about it.

            Liked by 1 person

      • EWSoCal says:

        You are onto something but you can’t plain English explain why it is failing because the plan English explanation is that fully covering millions of extremely I’ll and obese people is catastrophically expansive so someone needs to climb on the ice floe for the good of the tribe.

        Like

  14. SandraOpines says:

    Here are the current opinions in this 36 comment thread.

    1. RyanCare = ObamaCare Lite so No Go (winnable alternatives???)
    2. Full Repeal and Replace (which posters don’t understand has NO chance of passing)
    3. Let it die on it’s own (which would leave millions of people suffering, horrible politics for everyone who swore to repeal/replace)
    4. Trust Trump (he surprises us every time…… remember the fearful Trumpians about Romney?)

    I am going with “Trust Trump” the Negotiator in Chief.
    “There are 2 things I’ve found I’m very good at: overcoming obstacles and motivating good people to do their best work.”–The Art of The Deal by Donald J Trump

    We have to win folks!!!

    Liked by 6 people

  15. WallyWorld says:

    There is no obligation for the Republican Party to fix, repair, or even replace Obamacare.
    All they have to do is send a full repeal vote.
    If the Dems and RINOs don’t like it, fine – they did their jobs then. Those Dems and RINOs will be targeted in 2018.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dan says:

      Bingo.

      Like

    • sundance says:

      No obligation?

      How about a budget? (remember, Trump is responsible for one when there hasn’t been one in 8 years). A budget requires addressing ObamaCare.

      How about tax reform? After the budget, comes the needed tax reform plan to enhance and fuel the larger Trump America-First economic initiatives. Tax reform required dealing with ObamaCare.

      No obligation?

      Think before you rail emotionally.

      Please.

      Liked by 9 people

      • Toronto Tonto says:

        Paul Ryan’s Cromnibus is all the more reason not to trust his Ryancare bill. Most people don’t care about the budget or tax cuts or the trade or the unemployment rate or all these wonkish issues. They aren’t waiting for Congress to pass new legislation and probably won’t vote in the midterms. There is no reason to pick up this hot potato.

        Liked by 1 person

      • wheatietoo says:

        Sundance, remember this?

        Back in 2008, Candidate Obama warns that a healthcare system like ObamaCare would be a disaster.
        Heheh.

        He knew it would be failure.
        It was designed to fail.
        That is why he timed it to fail after he left office.

        .
        Most of us know that it was mainly about giving the Govt total control over our lives.

        Like

      • Mickey Wasp says:

        Mr. Sundance … great and very informative “Ryan vs Rand” and the Big Club on each side analysis. What I think you know, and I’m taking a liberty of thought here, (correct me if I’m wrong) is that President Trump knows he is in a win-win-win position.

        The GOPe/Democrats, whether they are CoC or Rand or Pelosi/Schumer, or the next labeling from you or the MSM lay on them. Are in deep shit and President Trump knows very well … He and his team will wait and give 2nd stage regulation reforms that neither side can argue against. However, hopefully not you, the ‘voting block’ narrative will start.

        And this is where President Trump hands then there collective ass’s.

        Like

  16. Trumppin says:

    President Trump has always been and continues to be a “long game thinker ” – “Think Big”
    Just when they think they got him – they don’t and we all know he plays 4D chess while they are
    playing checkers. Why should we doubt this is not still the game with obamacare?

    President Trump has always said if it were up to me i’d let it fail on it’s own – but we have to
    get help for the American people now. He must be seen as trying to do something, to do nothing
    would also be blamed on him not the democrats.
    Ryan explaining the “no votes” to pass a 100% repeal – replace I believe is a push for 2018 to give them a super majority to defeat democrats and obamacare.

    With the current “negotiations” no one is blaming trump they are blaming the GOPe and the Democrats which is where the blame belongs.

    Perhaps the plan is give us relief though the current plan making it better than obamacare saves the GOPe in 2018 but not the dems by a long shot which will give us a super majority and by 2020 if health care is not 100% the GOPe will be gone too and in large numbers.

    BUT- as an aside note: I have heard a couple times that President Trump is working on another plan of his own….. so perhaps this is all apart of draining the swamp .. expose the varying fractions of the GOPe for what they are then swoop in with a brilliant art of the deal healthcare package that will pass the MAGA muster.

    So for now.. i have my popcorn at hand while i watch our MAGA President do what he does best.

    Liked by 1 person

    • nhgardengram says:

      Bingo! Trumppin, I’m with you.

      Liked by 1 person

    • MIKE says:

      Great post. The all-inclusive uniparty would like nothing more than to hang this or ANY failure around Trump’s neck. The starting gate for their return to absolute power.

      Liked by 1 person

      • singingsoul says:

        It is astounding if it is not the left he has to fight he fights the Rinos the pure conservatives and then we also dump on POTUS .
        We tell we are with him and at the slightest we change our mind.
        They said the media that Trump is not balanced. Taking a look at our POTUS the way he plows along that he is the most banned person there is. We are being worse then a bunch of fleas.
        Let the man do his job he knows what we want and what he can do without being a dictator..

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Dennis Leonard says:

    I am not going to say who wrote this ,as it would detract from what it says,this way it remains generic.

    Some in the House Freedom Caucus are grumbling that these tax credits are a new entitlement. But two years ago, 13 of the Freedom Caucus’s members—including chairman Mark Meadows—co-sponsored an ObamaCare repeal-and-replace bill offered by then-Rep. Tom Price. That legislation included refundable tax credits.

    Further, the quibbling Republicans aren’t supporting repeal of the favorable tax treatment for employer-provided plans, which will cost Washington $3.6 trillion in forgone revenue over the next decade. This policy benefits employees at large companies. But it leaves out 15 million self-employed Americans and millions more whose employers don’t provide coverage. If workers at Fortune 500 companies get a tax advantage for their insurance, don’t self-employed entrepreneurs and workers at small businesses deserve the same?

    Because the GOP intends to pass the bill through the Senate’s reconciliation process, it cannot do everything. Next up is Tom Price, the secretary of health and human services. ObamaCare gives him power to write 1,440 rules, Republican leaders tell me. He will use it to provide regulatory relief and bend health care in a consumer-centered, market-driven direction.

    Congress will also debate follow-on legislation: reforming medical liability to reduce junk lawsuits, allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, permitting small businesses to pool their risk and get the same discounts as big companies, and much more.

    But passing this initial bill is the first step toward fundamentally reforming America’s health system. What is the alternative? Sen. Mike Lee (R., Utah) and Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) advocate a straight ObamaCare repeal, followed by a series of replacement measures considered under the Senate’s regular order. This plan assumes lots of Democrats will flock to provide 60 votes for every conservative health-care reform. Good luck with that.

    There are important political reasons to get this done now. One Nation, an advocacy group I volunteer with, recently ran a poll in 12 states with competitive Senate races in 2018, including former blue states won by President Trump—Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

    Voters in these states support repealing ObamaCare, 51% to 45%. Seventeen percent say repeal it immediately, but twice as many, 34%, want repeal only when a replacement is ready. Fifty-five percent said that health-care quality has not changed much under ObamaCare, but 56% said their costs have gone up. Only 8% said costs have dropped.

    Like

  18. seabrznsun says:

    Looking into the future of healthcare in America I can see the only government involvement being Medicare and partial funding for Medicaid. The government has no business in healthcare otherwise. One day we will reach this point.
    Right now the dismantling of disasterous Obamacare will not be an event that takes place. It will be a process that makes sure the people and systems are in place for insurance to be an affordable option for those who have jobs and money. The type of insurance offered by an employer will be dependent on the choice of the owner of the company. Not all employers will be offering a Cadillac plan. Some will offer a plan that covers what they consider appropriate and affordable for their employees. If people want government benefits they may need to consider a job change.
    I believe several requirements will be mandated for insurance companies to protect the patients. I also realize not everyone works. Medicaid is there for the poor within the States and gets government subsidies to help cover the poor. I also hope to see litigation reform. That will go a long way to bring down costs.
    Insurance bought on the open market should be able to be tailored to the needs and budget of the individual.
    We are not a socialist country and healthcare is not mandatory. It’s nice President Trump is working to make affordable healthcare a reality.
    I posted the link to the current bill above but will post it again. Read it and make suggestions. That’s what our President is asking us to do. It must be difficult for such a man as our President to listen to complaints without solutions offered.
    Here’s the link:

    http://housedocs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

    I’m about 1/4 the way through and am taking notes.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Red says:

      I read it this morning. I thought my eyes were going to glaze over. I wish there were links to the existing statutes that are referenced in the bill. We would need a library of law, codes, statutes, or whatever it was referencing back to.

      I understand the need for this type of referencing in the bill itself; however, it is exhausting to attempt to make sense of it and in order to fully understand what is stated it will require a lot of research

      This is what angers me, they are quick to say read the bill, but the bill makes no sense without the referenced material. I believe congress does this on purpose so that everyday Americans just throw in the towel and take congress’s word for it. It also gives them the idea that we are to ignorant to understand and that they, then, are superior.

      Liked by 1 person

      • seabrznsun says:

        I, as a long time medical professional, can understand your complaint. That is a great suggestion and I hope you’ll make it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • seabrznsun says:

        Here’s a short explanation of what is being recommended as the initial steps. Maybe this will be of some help to see the recommended starting point. Nothing is in stone yet. Speak up and be heard. You are likely among the majority who have your complaint. Remember, it is our government.
        Here’s the number to the congressional switchboard. You can reach whoever you want from there.

        1 (202) 224-3121

        I will be using it to call my reps and Speaker Ryan to voice my suggestions.
        The more public feedback they get, the more likely they are to listen and possibly act.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Red says:

          Thank you seabrznsun, I spent the majority my career doing two things. I worked in laboratories and later I wrote work instruction and SOP’s for various companies in order for them to meet certification standards. There is no way this bill can be fully understood without the supporting documentation. Therefore, we don’t really know what is in the bill.

          I understand Sundance’s argument that in order for it to be passed it has to be done through reconciliation and then we hopefully move forward with phase 2&3. Also I know that tax reform and many other things in President Trump’s agenda come after this.

          I will compose an email to my Congresswoman, Miss Sea Island GA, Diane Black, tonight. I like most people, am fully capable of understanding if, and only if, I have all the facts!!!!!

          Liked by 1 person

          • seabrznsun says:

            I glad to hear you are going to let these things be heard. They should be obvious, but we are talking to life long bureaucrats.
            I was an enforcer of healthcare regulations for my State Standards and CMS regulations, among other things throughout my 35+ years. Many of those regulations could have been removed some time ago. They were simply punitive and intended to generate revenue. I retired once Obamacare was initiated. That was the last straw for me.
            I’m ready to see a positive change.
            I fully support President Trump and see him watching closely to see just who he can trust to bring about the change to healthcare he championed during his campaign.

            Like

      • amjean says:

        Don’t you just hate it when “they” think
        we are too ignorant to understand?

        Like

  19. kaste668 says:

    I would like to go on the record to say how much I appreciate Sundance and his patience for having to address the same HC issues over and over. I am beginning to think many just bypass the articles that Sundance puts together for us and just start in the comments section. Read the articles, please!

    Liked by 2 people

  20. ALEX says:

    500,000 thousand people are on Obamacare in Kentucky I just heard on radio…..If that’s anywhere accurate there is no letting it fail….What will be done is the guarantee Trump made all election about people dying (it was hyperbole)in the street not happening…

    The 100% dependent on Medicaid will not lose access, but it will be modified without the mandates to states that make it so unworkable…Many governors like that. It needs tweaked BIGLY….Get used to that expansion of Medicaid or say goodbye to the Republican Party.We won the election by less than 100,000 votes…

    We should be hearing soon how many on Obamacare are the ones who lost doctor and can’t afford the price tag…Do 50% of the 500,000 in Kentucky fit that category?

    With Aetna coming on board with the republican plan we need to know what type of affordable plans they are going to offer for those paying. It could be as simple as going back to the ones before Obamacare….That would be immediate relief and then we can work on sixty votes and a new healthcare law…

    Like

  21. jeans2nd says:

    Condolences to the Mods who are watching these threads.

    Why is no one – NO ONE – considering what our Union guys and Dem supporters want? Have we forgotten that the Union guys – the Union members – and Blue Dog Democrats are Trump People?

    The Union guys and Blue Dog Dems also worked very hard to elect Pres Trump, and they support these Trump Healthcare Proposals, as well as the Tax Plans, etc..

    Who cares what the GOPe and the Dem leaders want? What do We The People want? Who cares how and who gets it done? All that matters is that it gets done, and done legally. Who cares which people benefit monetarily? We The People benefitting most monetarily is all that matters.

    We The People wanted Pres Trump, elected Pres Trump, and still support Pres Trump.

    Now quit arguing and figure out how best to support Pres Trump in Pres Trump’s Proposals. Pres Trump has NOT changed his positions. Quit changing ours.

    There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy, it’s only you and me and we just disagree (Dave Mason). Let’s agree on supporting Pres Trump. Then go support Pres Trump in your area of operation the best way you know how. We have work to do.

    Like

  22. Howie says:

    If the Rynos pass RINOCARE they will have to do a BUDGET.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. dreadnok89 says:

    fire this creep please trump

    Like

  24. dreadnok89 says:

    fire this creep please trump

    Like

  25. peace says:

    Sarah Palin, who I thought was a patriot and an avid Trump supporter, is, per Breitbart, anti-Ryancare.

    Like

    • amjean says:

      She is both a patriot and an avid
      Trump supporter; she, as with many
      of us, have a difference of opinion.

      Sarah Palin is not a sheeple. And
      last I checked, she is pretty smart.

      Like

  26. Greyledge Gal says:

    I’ve looked over this Bill and have a few observations and comments on what I see others asking in this thread.

    1. The majority of the Bill is about turning over the bulk of responsibility for Medicaid to the States. Those who say it is not a repeal are correct. It is re-writing the current Obamacare (0-Care) through the Amendment process. Pros to this approach might be you could get some buy-in from Democrats in red states/districts because it is not a repeal but a fix to 0-Care. Fix it has become the most popular opinion. People are scared with the idea that one thing that just changed everyone’s life is going to be thrown out for some other new thing which will again change everyone’s life. We all know the Cons to the approach from our side which is – “they promised to repeal 0-Care” and everything that goes with that.

    2. The first changes mainly apply to repealing many taxes added on to all of us through 0-Care. (a) For instance, the medical device tax is repealed. That translates into more jobs in this country and more innovation in the medical device industry in the US. It translates into cheaper knee/hip/joint replacements and many other things for everyone. (b) The 3% tax on financial transactions is repealed. That translates into great news for those that have stocks/bonds/other securities and want to sell them. That tax was on top of any capital gains tax. (c) The raise in Medicare tax on salary is repealed and returned to the same 1.45% for employees and 2.9% for self-employed as it was for many years before 0-Care took effect. That translates into more money in every working person’s pocket, every employer’s pocket, every self-employed person’s pocket. It translates into more jobs and/or more hours for the already employed.

    2. Most other changes do not occur until 2019-2020-2021.

    3. Policies cannot cover abortion but anyone can buy an abortion rider with his/her own money. Subsidies (now called refundable tax credits) cannot be applied to cost of the abortion rider. Employers do not have to offer abortion coverage (just like they don’t have to pay for other riders an employee might want to add to a policy). I don’t know whether this will survive a Constitutional challenge but at least they are trying.

    4. The 30% surcharge: It appears that if you don’t make premium payments/lapse after 2 months you have to pay a 30% surcharge. As best I can make out, one would only owe 30% on the monthly premiums missed; however, I have heard some Congress members saying it would be 30% of the yearly premium. I translate this into 30% of 1/12th of the yearly premium for each month missed if you lapse (could be 1/12th of 30% of the yearly premium?). I would like more clarification on this – it sounds usurious but it is taking the place of the overall fine for not having health insurance and it still falls within allowed interest charges that credit card/revolving/unsecured loans are allowed by law to charge. I assume this would be considered the “incentive” to make everyone buy insurance.

    5. A weird clause that states that married couples cannot get the subsidies/tax credits unless they file a joint tax return???

    6. The mandatory procedures (10 essentials) mandated to be covered by 0-Care will be phased out.

    ====

    Other comments:

    1. Maybe Tom Price can’t talk about what he would change insofar as regulations are concerned because they do not want to give fuel to Dems — AND they do not want to influence the CBO:scoring by giving them things they could figure in later.

    2. Byrd Rule – McConnell is more no drama than Obama ever was. He will not throw out the Byrd Rule at this time because (1) Byrd was from West Virginia and he wants to get Manchin’s West Virginia vote; (2) More things for Dems to scream about; (3) Hoping he can add to the number of Republican Senators in 2018 to pass something more palatable? (4) Paint Dems as obstructionists because 0-Care is failing and they won’t lift a finger to help? (5) Or maybe he thinks letting it fail is best and if it doesn’t pass Senate, they think they can just blame Dems?

    3. I don’t love this plan but I don’t think there is any possibility of getting anything passed that is better at this time. This leaves the decision to do nothing or to try to pass something you know will never pass in the Senate. Which option makes Republicans look worse? Which option makes Dems look worse? In the end, either President Trump is keeping his promises on a long-term plan or I was duped again when I voted for President Trump. Only time will tell.

    Like

  27. entagor says:

    Joel Pollack’s “Blue State Blues: How ‘Art of the Deal’ Explains the Obamacare Replacement Debate” convinced me to give Trump the benefit of the doubt
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/09/obamacare-blue-state-blues-art-deal-explains-replacement-debate/

    Walmart got to put lots of their store employees into part time, because Obamacare picked up the cost of medical. I helped a part time friend apply for Obamacare. One policy would have cost her zero dollars. Business happy to let the feds pay for it

    Ryancare transfers penalties from the Treasury to Insurance companies. Gee. I understand they are just trying to help insurance companies stiffed out of money by citizens who do not want to buy their policies, but this is going to go over like a lead balloon. In this case, the insurers are going to say: the feds made me do it

    Some GOP governors bought in big to the increased Medicaid rolls. Not touching Medicaid lets feds pay for it – because otherwise it collapses like a wet noodle

    Seems RINOs have calculated that they have to buy votes by maintaining the free stuff
    Seems RINOs have also calculated they have to repay their donors by squeezing the voters

    Trump has some real leverage

    RINOs had a clue what Trump would like, so Ryancare is a counter offer. Anywhere Trump moves is better than staying in Obamacare. RINOs have moved into a mine field

    The RINOs may find that winning badly can look a lot like losing

    Like

    • Mickey Wasp says:

      Well … do you know Joel Pollak’s real background? And his underhandedness in Chicago politics? Do you know he is an ‘opposition control’ operative?

      Pollak was a Hillary fan and supporter in Chi-town during the 2008 presidential election cycle. And got so pizzed that Obama won – he went into hiding for a few months and decided to go ‘rightie’, his words. To gain some street creds he ran against Schakowsky and never spent a dime. Street creds to take to Cali and impress Andrew Breitbart.

      Joel Pollak is a wordsmithing globalist, as any MSM personality. Never trust him, he may sound and write well … at times … but, he is pure globalist neocon.

      Like

  28. Greyledge Gal says:

    (Tried to post this and it made me sign in again – I’ve refreshed but don’t see if. Apologies if I double post)

    I’ve looked over this Bill and have a few observations and comments on what I see others asking in this thread.

    1. The majority of the Bill is about turning over the bulk of responsibility for Medicaid to the States. Those who say it is not a repeal are correct. It is re-writing the current Obamacare (0-Care) through the Amendment process. Pros to this approach might be you could get some buy-in from Democrats in red states/districts because it is not a repeal but a fix to 0-Care. Fix it has become the most popular opinion. People are scared with the idea that one thing that just changed everyone’s life is going to be thrown out for some other new thing which will again change everyone’s life. We all know the Cons to the approach from our side which is – “they promised to repeal 0-Care” and everything that goes with that.

    2. The first changes mainly apply to repealing many taxes added on to all of us through 0-Care. (a) For instance, the medical device tax is repealed. That translates into more jobs in this country and more innovation in the medical device industry in the US. It translates into cheaper knee/hip/joint replacements and many other things for everyone. (b) The 3% tax on financial transactions is repealed. That translates into great news for those that have stocks/bonds/other securities and want to sell them. That tax was on top of any capital gains tax. (c) The raise in Medicare tax on salary is repealed and returned to the same 1.45% for employees and 2.9% for self-employed as it was for many years before 0-Care took effect. That translates into more money in every working person’s pocket, every employer’s pocket, every self-employed person’s pocket. It translates into more jobs and/or more hours for the already employed.

    2. Most other changes do not occur until 2019-2020-2021.

    3. Policies cannot cover abortion but anyone can buy an abortion rider with his/her own money. Subsidies (now called refundable tax credits) cannot be applied to cost of the abortion rider. Employers do not have to offer abortion coverage (just like they don’t have to pay for other riders an employee might want to add to a policy). I don’t know whether this will survive a Constitutional challenge but at least they are trying.

    4. The 30% surcharge: It appears that if you don’t make premium payments/lapse after 2 months you have to pay a 30% surcharge. As best I can make out, one would only owe 30% on the monthly premiums missed; however, I have heard some Congress members saying it would be 30% of the yearly premium. I translate this into 30% of 1/12th of the yearly premium for each month missed if you lapse (could be 1/12th of 30% of the yearly premium?). I would like more clarification on this – it sounds usurious but it is taking the place of the overall fine for not having health insurance and it still falls within allowed interest charges that credit card/revolving/unsecured loans are allowed by law to charge. I assume this would be considered the “incentive” to make everyone buy insurance.

    5. A weird clause that states that married couples cannot get the subsidies/tax credits unless they file a joint tax return???

    6. The mandatory procedures (10 essentials) mandated to be covered by 0-Care will be phased out.

    ====

    Other comments:

    1. Maybe Tom Price can’t talk about what he would change insofar as regulations are concerned because they do not want to give fuel to Dems — AND they do not want to influence the CBO:scoring by giving them things they could figure in later.

    2. Byrd Rule – McConnell is more no drama than Obama ever was. He will not throw out the Byrd Rule at this time because (1) Byrd was from West Virginia and he wants to get Manchin’s West Virginia vote; (2) More things for Dems to scream about; (3) Hoping he can add to the number of Republican Senators in 2018 to pass something more palatable? (4) Paint Dems as obstructionists because 0-Care is failing and they won’t lift a finger to help? (5) Or maybe he thinks letting it fail is best and if it doesn’t pass Senate, they think they can just blame Dems?

    3. I don’t love this plan but I don’t think there is any possibility of getting anything passed that is better at this time. This leaves the decision to do nothing or to try to pass something you know will never pass in the Senate. Which option makes Republicans look worse? Which option makes Dems look worse? In the end, either President Trump is keeping his promises on a long-term plan or I was duped again when I voted for President Trump. Only time will tell.

    WordPress.com / Gravatar.com credentials can be used.

    Like

  29. WeThePeople2016 says:

    Exclusive–Rep. Mark Meadows: I Promised President Trump I Would Negoitate Obamacare Repeal-Replace in Good Faith

    “The only troubling thing that I continue to hear is that no amendments are going to be going to be allowed to be made in order. Certainly, no amendments were supported by either of the chairmen in either of the committees of jurisdiction.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/11/exclusive-rep-mark-meadows-promised-president-trump-negoitate-obamacare-repeal-replace-good-faith/

    Like

  30. P7rancher says:

    jeans2nd, very well stated. I will live and die with President Trump. He had me at “Lets make America great again”. I believe in him and will support hime in every way i canto my last breath!

    Like

  31. Mickey Wasp says:

    Ask yourself … just reflect for a moment.
    And look at your family, the bight smiles and laughter and etched memories.
    Think about your fellow co-workers – as you move about with your daily activities and see your fellow Americans, working, driving to work, performing their tasks, producing a product.

    And then see the realization of the person you elected to represent you …

    Like

  32. We Are Borg says:

    I really wish some of you folks would STOP your incessant whining — y’all beginning to sound like a bunch of conservative snowflakes! You’re so busy counting hairs on the belly of an ant you fail to see the colony of 10,000 crawling up the tree, never mind the forest.

    Get focused! Twisting your knickers over Paul Ryan et al, and RINOs in general is taking attention away from he problem at hand. These folks are in charge, you’re NOT, I’m not. Writing letters to your representatives is a noble pursuit but stop telling them how angry you are and start offering them CONSTRUCTIVE ideas, ideas based on facts, data and statistics — not a bunch of emotional hand-wringing.

    Better yet: first, ask your representative if he, or she, could explain their position regarding repeal / replace processes currently under consideration. Read / listen to what they actually have to say BEFORE ripping into them. What a concept! Check their websites, recent articles published, interviews or appearances on talk shows. Act on fact, stop RE-acting to emotions. Hate and fear are mind-killers, the tools of mobs — enough with the torches and pitchforks!

    I’m no expert on House or Senate procedures and gladly defer to the Sundance Kid on such matters, never the less, the pathway to success on this matter seems quite clear to me. No, it’s not ideal. No, it’s not perfect. There’s no magical conservative wand we can wave over this mess and just make it all disappear.

    Ryan’s basic plan DOES have one thing going for it — it’s workable — it gets the ball rolling. Our President is putting his support behind the basic concept, why can’t you?

    The Sundance Kid nailed it: 60 votes — do the math, people! Why ARE you SO obsessed with immediate repeal / replace? I’m no fan of Speaker Ryan, but his basic 3-phase process is quite correct — there ain’t no other way to pull this off. You kill this beast administratively from the INSIDE by slowly morphing it into essentially a new law replacing the old one. Why IS that so difficult to for some of you to fathom?

    90% of the stuff that makes Obamacare so objectionable is contained within the thousands of HHS regulations — most of which, per the language of the law, are at the discretion of the Secretary.

    Get focused! Twisting your knickers over Paul Ryan et al, and RINOs in general is taking attention away from he problem at hand. These folks are in charge, you’re NOT, I’m not. Writing letters to your representatives is a noble pursuit but stop telling them how angry you are and start giving them CONSTRUCTIVE ideas.

    I’m no expert on House or Senate procedures and gladly defer to the Sundance Kid on such matters, but the pathway to success on this matter seems quite plain to me. No, it’s not ideal. No, it’s not a magic wand. But it IS a workable plan, our President is putting his support behind the basic concept, why can’t you?

    Like

    • We Are Borg says:

      UPDATE: Hm-m-m-mm. Not sure how I managed to repeat a few entire paragraphs? Guess they were so nice, it’s worth reading them twice!

      Like

  33. We Are Borg says:

    Noticed a couple of articles out this a.m. regarding a different approach to this mess offered by Ted Cruz, sounds interesting, might be a game-changer According to the senator:

    “Under the Budget Act of 1974, which is what governs reconciliation, it is the presiding officer, the vice president of the United States, who rules on what’s permissible on reconciliation and what is not. That’s a conversation I’ve been having with a number of my colleagues.”

    Nice writeup over at American Thinker.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/03/ted_cruz_may_have_discovered_a_way_to_totally_change_obamacare_without_60_senate_votes.html

    Sundance, your thoughts?

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s