FBI Video Release of LaVoy Finicum Shooting – and Why CTH Is Reluctant to Engage…

Against my better judgement, and acquiescing to a rather overwhelming number of requests, here is the official FBI released video of the LaVoy Finicum shooting near Burns Oregon:

There are several reasons why we have chosen not to dig into this specific aspect of this event, after posting the first three research articles.  Here’s the ones we’re comfortable stating:

patriot♦ The freedom continuum has two diametrically opposing forces on either end. On one end, the left, if you travel outward from democracy to socialism to communism eventually you arrive at totalitarianism. The absolute power of government over the individual. The maximum amount of liberty lost.

On the oppositional end, the right, again if you travel from democracy to a constitutional republic and keep going, eventually you arrive at a place absent of any government. This is anarchy. This is law of the jungle, survival of the fittest. Mad Max type societal tribe formation.

Neither path, left nor right, is good when taken to its ultimate conclusion.

However, the freedom continuum is not linear.

The freedom continuum is a loop, a circle, quivering like a bubble under the extreme forces of polarization and the customary antagonisms which result from oppositional forces in conflict.   The circle closes the moment before the magnets clack.

The events near Burns Oregon are taking place in the narrowest of spaces where the continuum meets. The space where oppressive government and the total lack of government meet.

It is a tiny sliver of a space.  A dangerous sliver of a space.

Inside this space is where all of the arguments, counter-arguments, opinions and counter-opinions are taking place.  Historically, millions have died over the ideological battles which rage amid this sliver of a space.

Just like in nature’s delicate balance, the people within the Burns Oregon arguments, traveling from both the left and right – who live in/on this razors edge – are not always stable.

It’s a sketchy proposition to choose to engage with the inhabitants who find comfort within this space as described. Not every voice is (mentally) stable, or possess the needed internal self-regulating (emotional) compass headings to stay stable.

It is administratively very difficult and time consuming to try and keep the unstable minds out of the conversation as it is being discussed.

Secondly, those who show up to view (or engage in) the discussion, are also not necessarily who they appear to be. Nor do they hold altruistic motives for engaging in the discussions. Those of you who remember the prior need for password protected posts will well understand what is directly implied in that statement.

All of that said, if you want a safe place to hash it out – here you go. We make no promises about investing larger research time into this particular subject.

Always remember, these visible events are a symptom – they are not the underlying disease.  We are working earnestly to cut clear margins right now.

Warmest best,

Sundance

La Voy

Rest in Peace

This entry was posted in Abusive Cops, Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Conspiracy ?, Dept Of Justice, media bias, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

1,420 Responses to FBI Video Release of LaVoy Finicum Shooting – and Why CTH Is Reluctant to Engage…

  1. BigMamaTEA says:

    Liked by 1 person

  2. BigMamaTEA says:

    Liked by 1 person

  3. BigMamaTEA says:

    Here are direct “scribd” links to the rest of the the Court Documents as of Feb 3, 2016.
    If you lose these links, you can access my scirbd account, and under the topic header “OREGON” you’ll find them all: https://www.scribd.com/user/21289060/BigMamaTEA

    Liked by 2 people

  4. nevertoolatte says:

    The essay linked below gives background on the charge of “conspiracy to impede officers of the US” as well as a short, blunt critique of the hearsay in the special agent’s affidavit. Regarding the charge:

    “The federal statute under which Ammon Bundy and six other members of the CCF have been charged, 18 USC section 372, offers no protection whatsoever to the persons and property of U.S. citizens. That measure, enacted in 1861, is designed to protect “officers” of the federal government (including administrative personnel and other bureaucrats)…A Justice Department memo written in 1977 noted that “although this provision is more than 100 years old, it has been infrequently used. Most recorded cases have involved internal revenue agents whose efforts to track down tax-evading operators of illegal stills met with resistance…The purpose of the memo, significantly, was to provide the FBI with a legal rationale for investigating and prosecuting, under the rubric of “conspiracy to impede federal officers,” acts that were not explicitly criminalized by other federal statutes…The “conspiracy to impede” statute “did not even contain a requirement that an overt act be done in furtherance of the conspiracy before the conspiratorial conduct would become actionable,” pointed out Assistant Attorney General John M. Harmon.”

    Tyranny, Defiance, and the Death of LaVoy Finicum
    http://www.freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016_01_01_archive.html

    Liked by 2 people

    • jakeandcrew says:

      Excellent article!

      But people whose position in society depends on the threat and exercise of lethal violence are intimidated by those who are prepared to call their bluff.

      State-inflicted death is the last argument of tyrants, particularly those who fear that defiance may become contagious.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. jakeandcrew says:

    There are memorials for LaVoy Finicum all across the country this weekend. The article includes an interactive map showing all the locations.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_death_in_oregon.html#incart_story_package

    Liked by 4 people

  6. jakeandcrew says:

    http://koin.com/2016/02/05/shawna-cox-requests-to-attend-finicum-funeral/

    Shawna Cox finally gets permission to go to LaVoy’s funeral.

    Liked by 5 people

  7. kinthenorthwest says:

    Full investigation of the death of LaVoy Finicum by Federal Agents on January 26 2016, by the United States AG

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/full-investigation-death-lavoy-finicum-federal-agents-january-26-2016-united-states-ag

    Like

    • BigMamaTEA says:

      that’s a little premature isn’t it. NObody wants the Feds to investigate. They are the problem!

      The Deschutes County Sheriff’s Office was tapped Tuesday Feb. 2, 2016, to lead the investigation into the death of Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, 54, who was shot Jan. 26 by an Oregon state trooper at an FBI roadblock on Highway 395.

      Liked by 2 people

  8. jakeandcrew says:

    https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?list=TLtbUX6F8DRR8wNjAyMjAxNg&params=OAFIAVgK&v=a2SP6NuwcEs&mode=NORMAL

    Video of LaVoy’s funeral procession. Many, many cowboys on horses. Pretty awesome.

    Around 3,000 there for funeral.

    (The videographer is associated with Pete Santilli somehow.)

    Liked by 3 people

  9. jakeandcrew says:

    This is an interview with Chris Briels, Committee for Safety member, and former county Fire Marshall (it’s one interview, in 3 parts).

    He goes into detail about the FBI undercover guys he followed from the armory, and talks of how all of the harassment and fear mongering came from the federal agents, not the occupiers or militia.

    There is no mention of the letter concerning the French cartel, or Judge Darby, or any of that, although he does mention uranium and the Clinton’s.

    He also tells about his dealings with Judge Grasty, who basically told him to go home, old man, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I can see why the Judge is nicknamed Judge Nasty.

    Very good interview. About 30 minutes total.

    https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?list=TLtbUX6F8DRR8wNjAyMjAxNg&params=OAFIAVgN&v=kTaqNZFZLTU&mode=NORMAL

    https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?list=TLtbUX6F8DRR8wNjAyMjAxNg&params=OAFIAVgM&v=7bBhISxankU&mode=NORMAL

    https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?list=TLtbUX6F8DRR8wNjAyMjAxNg&params=OAFIAVgL&v=8K5t21X1e5A&mode=NORMAL

    Like

  10. kinthenorthwest says:

    Hopefully this works. Good Compilation of some things that contributed to Burns.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. kinthenorthwest says:

    Liked by 3 people

    • jakeandcrew says:

      Good pictures from the scene. This man was there 4 days after LaVoy was killed.

      Liked by 3 people

      • oldiadguy says:

        This is a reply to an earlier comment.

        jakeandcrew – Let me explain by why asked if you had any law enforcement experience. Those of us that have been law enforcement develop a healthy degree of scepticism whenever anyone tells us something, as LEO’s are lied to on almost a daily basis. Also, since we have to prepare cases that have to withstand a court’s scrutiny,therefore we tend to look at things differently than most folks.

        The first question we (LEO’s) ask is can I prove this in court. If you have seen my comments on other police misconduct threads, you would know that I am very keen on physical evidence. If properly gathered, physical evidence can make or break a case. Whereas, witness statements may be factual description of what occurred, half truths, out right lies or misperceptions. An example would be some of the witnesses in the Michael Brown case.

        These misperceptions can be based on anything from ignorance to a predisposed bias.
        I don’t normally do “war stories” but these two incidents may make it clearer what I’m trying to say.

        When I was a young officer, I had the privilege to ride at various times with two exceptional older officers, who told me the following story. Many years earlier, these officers had worked together on a anti-crime task force and were watching a gas station in the early morning hours that had been the target of several robberies. They saw a subject walkup to the corner and appeared to be casing the business. The officers drove up and attempted to conduct a Terry Stop, however, the subject pulled away and went to his waistband and retrieved a pistol. Fortunately, the officers alerted to his suspicious actions were prepared and were able to draw the revolvers and fatally shoot the suspect before he could fire a shot. The gas station attendant witnessed the incident and corroborated the officers version of events as did the physical evidence.

        At that time all deaths went to a Coroner’s Court for a findings on the cause of death. Up until that point it was a clear-cut case of self-defense. However, things changed during the coroner’s hearing. After the officers gave their testimony, explaining why it had been necessary to shoot the deceased, a crowd of demonstrators descended upon the court with signs and a bullhorn demanding justice. The coroner’s jury, comprised of old men were apparently rattled by the threats and came back with a finding of murder by person or persons unknown.

        Now witnesses came out of the woodwork claiming the officers shot the fine outstanding citizen who wasn’t doing nothing in cold blood. The homicide unit started interviewing the witnesses and was able to quickly eliminate most of them. (It is tough to witness an incident when you were sitting in jail) One witness, an older woman with a clean record, who claimed to have witnessed the shooting from her window was thought to be a creditable witness.

        The FBI at that time opened investigations into any police death and were involved in the investigation. Two agents went to the woman’s apartment, which was located in a housing project across the street from the shooting. After interviewing her, the agents asked her to show them the window from where she witnessed the shooting. The woman hesitated, so an agent walked over to window, looked out and asked her, when did they put the building up which stood between her window and the shooting site. The woman broke down and admitted that she had not seen the shooting and only made the statement after she was threatened with loosing her apartment.

        This was a good example of a coerced or pressured statement.

        The second example occurred while I was in IAD. A car thief was being pursued by the police and when stopped by traffic, bailed out of the stolen car and ran. An officer chased him into a strip mall where the suspect, while jumping up onto the raised sidewalk tripped and fell face first onto the pavement. The officer quickly secured him and led him back to the street where he was placed in another police car that had responded and he was conveyed back to the scene. There EMS was requested and it was discovered that the suspect had lost a tooth in the fall. EMS personnel suggested that if the missing tooth could be recovered, the doctors might be able to re-attach it. The arresting officer returned to the scene of the arrest in an effort to recover the tooth so it could be taken to the hospital but was unable to locate it.

        Within hours, the Chief’s Office was being bombarded with complaints on how the suspect was beaten by the officer. It turned out that the scene of the arrest was in front of a government financed job training center. Two black IAD investigators were dispatched to interview the suspect. The suspect’s recorded statement matched the officer’s, in that he fell while running. The suspect said the officer did not assault him and confirmed that the officer had tried to find his tooth so it could be reattached. The suspect’s injuries, a mild abrasion on his face and the missing tooth were photographed and a medical record release form was signed. According to the ER report, the suspect told the doctor he fell while running from the police.

        After multiple calls alleging abuse by the officer, a formal investigation was opened by IAD. Several brief telephone interviews were conducted by the investigator that had received the assignment. The investigator also received a 4 or 5 page letter that gave a blow by blow description of the alleged beating. The letter described how the officer ran up and kicked the suspect in the face, kicked the suspect multiple times about the body, stomped on the suspect’s head and picked the suspect and body slammed him to the ground.

        A date was set to interview all the witnesses at the job training site. At the last minute the commander of IAD instructed me to go with the investigator and assist in the interviews. I read the letter while en route and when we pulled up to the site, I noticed that the training site was in a small strip mall which had plate glass fronts. However, the glass for the job training facility had the glass either painted or covered with something black. In short, you couldn’t see out from the inside with the exception of the front door and a window to the right of the door that had heavy curtains. Before going into the building, I stood at the location where the incident occurred and looked around to check the line of site in various directions.

        The first three interviewees did not in fact see the incident as claimed, but were basing their statements on the white instructor who had written the letter. The next two “witnesses” supposedly watched the incident from the doorway of a carwash that happened to be around the corner. Neither would have been able to see the incident from where they claimed they had been standing. One admitted that he had been instructed on what to say and the other became angry when confronted with the aforementioned fact and walked out of the interview.

        The last witness was the white instructor who had written the letter describing the beating in such detail. This witness described the incident as exactly described in the letter and added a bit more gory detail. When I asked the instructor from where they had witnessed the incident, they said they had witnessed the incident from their classroom.

        At this point the instructor remembered that they hadn’t given us the “evidence” that they had recovered. The instructor then removed a Kleenex from their pocket, inside of which was the suspect’s missing tooth.

        We continued the interview in the instructor’s classroom. The classroom had three solid walls and one wall with black painted windows. It was impossible to see anything outside from that classroom. When confronted with the impossibility of seeing anything from their classroom, the instructor simply stated, “That is how I perceived it in my mind’s eye.” At that point the interview was over. As we were leaving the classroom, the instructor asked when we were going to fire the officer!

        The IAD commander had been present during the two outside witnesses and the letter writer witness and as we left the building apologized to both of us for wasting our time. Nobody had thought to drive by the building before taking the complaint. SMH

        My point is none of us that were not on the scene that day in January know exactly what happened. We have statements by some of the principles that have a vested interest in presenting a story that is favorable to them, their co-defendants and their cause. Victoria, while not a co-defendant, was friendly with those arrested, sympathetic to their cause and has been in contact with others that may have a vested interest in presenting a favorable story line.

        I’m not saying that Victoria is lying or misrepresenting what occurred. I can’t, as I wasn’t there to witness what transpired, nor have I seen the scene or the physical evidence. I will say I have listened and watched several of Victoria’s interviews. As an experienced interviewer/interrogator, her interviews make me uneasy. In some ways, they remind me in way of that job corp instructor from years ago.

        Please be cautious on what you accept as fact. Approach things without emotion and analyze “facts” and statements carefully. The truth will come out, it just may take awhile.

        Take Care

        Liked by 6 people

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        Says a lot when that is 4 days later.

        Like

    • jewelsc6 says:

      Thank You so much for that. It really helps put it all together. Very good pictures and really nice memorial. So sad !

      Like

  12. kinthenorthwest says:

    Somebody took down all the memorial stuff at the shooting site..

    Like

  13. kinthenorthwest says:

    This is in front of the White House

    Liked by 2 people

  14. kinthenorthwest says:

    Some people have tried to fix it

    Liked by 3 people

  15. kinthenorthwest says:

    Liked by 1 person

  16. kinthenorthwest says:
  17. jakeandcrew says:

    Powerful.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. jewelsc6 says:

    Well I am disgusted by this. It seems Harney County decorated their town with Ribbons! Now I see they have taken down a memorial for Lavoy..This is just nuts..

    Liked by 1 person

  19. oldiadguy says:

    Another opinion article about the incident. The article makes a number of claims that I had not read before.

    Finicum seemed to have made up his mind about how his role in the occupation was likely to end — with his death. Just a few days into the occupation, he came barreling to the refuge entrance in a federal truck. Rifle in hand, Finicum sat in the middle of the driveway, telling the reporters gathered around him that he learned there was a warrant for his arrest and he wanted to make it easy for federal agents to find him. At the time, he said he didn’t know what the warrant charged him with, but he believed agents would try to arrest him soon. “I don’t think it really matters. There’s enough things they could make a warrant for us, I believe,” he said. ”

    See more at: http://www.am1280thepatriot.com/news/articles/rancher-killed-in-refuge-standoff-vowed-to-die-before-jail#sthash.0mEXS5Xn.dpuf

    The claim I found odd is as follows.

    “Finicum and his wife, Jeanette, raised dozens of foster children, though social workers removed the kids from the couple’s home a few days after the occupation began.

    Finicum said the foster kids were the family’s main source of income.

    Catholic Charities paid the family more than $115,000 in 2009 to foster children, according to tax filings. Foster parents are generally paid a small per-child amount by the government. It’s intended to reimburse them for the costs incurred in fostering. The money sometimes is disbursed through nonprofit partners.”

    I hadn’t read anywhere that the foster kids were the family’s main source of income. I don’t know if this is factual or an agenda piece. How did someone get the family’s tax filings?

    Any thoughts?

    Take Care

    Liked by 2 people

  20. oldiadguy says:

    Here is a good example of an agenda driven article.

    http://outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=1328

    An excellent example of mixing facts, conspiracy theory, misinterpretation of law and outright Bravo Sierra.

    “At the same time that the gunfire was directed at LaVoy, by two agents clearly aiming at him, those inside of the truck begin seeing laser dots, perhaps thirty or forty at any given time, and Ryan Bundy is shot in the shoulder. Bullets begin to pierce the truck; windows break, impacted by bullets. All hell breaks loose as perhaps hundreds of bullets penetrate the vehicle or hit the snow, outside, sending clouds of snow into the air. All of the windows had been broken by gunfire, which was described as “coming from every direction”.”

    As a reference here is a photo of a white painted vehicle that had been riddled with bullets.

    http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.Ma977f4421d6b8882ed68ec9edd0989aco0&w=300&h=225&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

    My point is that a large number of bullet holes should be visible in the video. I have examined Finicum’s truck in a number of videos at various time frames on a large computer screen and magnified up to 400%. Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not seeing them. If anyone can point to what they believe to be bullet holes, it would be appreciated.

    Take Care

    Liked by 2 people

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      I think that the shooting of the vechicle is after where they shut down the video.
      I could be wrong…But it is strange that no one has brought forth any of the after pictures of the incident.
      Its already been shown that just prior to the shooting of LaVoy in the FBI video, something really strange happened to the video.
      Until I see the autopsy, along with pictures that I can believe of the vehicle, and the scene after the shooting of LaVoy. In other words the crime scene photos that I have a feeling were not done as they should have been or were only of the areas they want the public to finally see.
      I have been thinking this for many days now but what happened in Burns is so similar to what happened in the San Bernadino Terrorist Attack except for the attackers.. In San Berandino we had foreign terrorist murdering Americans. In Burns we have our own government murdering a good American It does not make sense.
      It is a VERY sad day in America when our own government is responsible for the death of God Fearing Patriotic Americans.

      Liked by 4 people

      • jewelsc6 says:

        Imo the reason they did not show us body cam video is because they do not want us to see the truck riddled with bullets. We do know there was glass all over and we heard witnesses say they were shooting the truck.

        Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          I’m not sure the troopers/agents at the roadblock had body cams. Also, remember the roadblock was Plan B, the car stop was Plan A. If there is any body or helmet cam videos, I would expect it would be from the car stop location.

          As far as a bullet riddled truck, remember that truck has to be accounted for in multiple reports. It can’t just disappear. My belief is that it is being held due to the police shooting investigation being conducted. If there are no charges, then I can not think of any reason not to release it to the Finicum Family, unless the government is going to do an asset forfeiture seizure of some kind.

          Yes we do know from the photos taken by the amateur sleuth that there was auto glass at the scene four days later. Remember, the truck was removed by either a tow truck or a flatbed truck. In my experience, flatbed trucks are used more often than tow trucks. What kind of vehicles do flatbed trucks haul. Broken down vehicles, seized vehicles (evidence) and wrecked cars and it is not uncommon to see broken glass and other assorted debris on the back of a flatbed truck. Since there was only a small amount of glass photographed at the scene, is it not possible that it could have been deposited there by the flatbed during the removal of the truck?

          Sometimes there are multiple possibilities to what happened.

          Take Care

          Like

    • Rebel Mope says:

      OldIadGuy-
      I haven’t gone thru the whole thread; I gave up quite a while ago, so if any of this has been covered please forgive me. Having known both sides of the law- especially in my Yute- it seems to me the LEOs always have a contingency plan. Thus the roadblock on the blind curve. This is something that should have been anticipated. I suspect they were to be taken down at the airport the day before but the cameras made that impossible. (For you little leaguers out there, if you are going to try to intimidate the government you need to get inside their OODA Loop.)
      Here’s my question: Reports say less than 120 rounds were fired- LaVoy was hit less than ten times, that leaves 110 or so going towards the vehicle. With red dot lasers, no one was hit, except for Bundy who was hit by shrapnel. Either they weren’t trying to hit the occupants, or they need more range time. Isn’t it damn dangerous to fire when you have other guys in your field of fire?

      Like

      • oldiadguy says:

        RM – From what I read the only reports of 120 rounds being fired came from Cox and Sharp. As I’ve commented several times, I have doubts about their credibility. I’ve stated here that I checked the videos many times and don’t see any visible bullet holes or signs of impact other than the hits on top of the door frame by the OC rounds (white puffs). One hundred and twenty rounds of 5.56 and/or 40 ca.l (carried by the OSP) would have shredded the cab of the truck.

        “Isn’t it damn dangerous to fire when you have other guys in your field of fire?”

        Absolutely, that is why I think a couple of guys broke cover, specifically the OSP trooper who came out of the woods. This trooper put himself in the line of fire of the other trooper/agents at the stop. If he was trying to Tase Finicum as I read yesterday, it was a gutsy thing to do when you have a guy who had a reputation of being armed and stated he wouldn’t be taken alive.

        It was also a foolish thing to do. As I stated above, the trooper placed himself in the line of fire, he didn’t have a cover officer at his side with a firearm covering Finicum and last of all, a Taser probably wouldn’t have worked in this instance. Finicum was wearing a heavy winter coat that would have coat the darts and prevented them from being effective.

        Take Care

        Liked by 2 people

        • Rebel Mope says:

          ” One hundred and twenty rounds of 5.56 and/or 40 ca.l (carried by the OSP) would have shredded the cab of the truck.”
          That’s kinda my point. 120 rounds and no hits. The only way that could happen is if they were laying down suppressive fire. The smoke would highlight the laser inside the vehicle and would be seen easier from inside in the smoke. The occupants would do well to keep down at that point. I recall duct taping a laser pointer to a derringer at the range. The accuracy was amazing. So it is hard for me to believe 120 rounds with laser sights missed every target. Heck, it would be hard for me to believe 5 laser sighted shots missed the target.

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            The other alternative is that the 120 rounds were never fired. If they were actually under fire, I doubt that they were counting rounds. It is a made up number.

            Take Care

            Liked by 2 people

        • QuadGMoto says:

          I strongly doubt that he was using a Taser. The certainty of a heavy coat that you cited is one reason. Also, I didn’t see any movements that suggest to me to be gathering wires as others have claimed. It also looks like he does a reload that looks more like going to the butt of the grip rather than to the front. Not to mention the fact that LaVoy dropped so immediately and died.

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            The info about the Taser supposedly came from the FBI according to the news report. I also read a couple of other sites discussing why the trooper didn’t use his Taser. I don’t think the trooper actually fired his Taser if that what he was holding.

            My original thought that the trooper was using a handgun equipped with a light laser combo. I can just make out what looks like a laser dot coming from the trooper’s direction on Finicum in some of the videos.

            I noticed the trooper’s hand movement as well.

            Take Care

            Like

  21. kinthenorthwest says:

    Franklin Graham’s input
    WOW

    Liked by 6 people

  22. jewelsc6 says:

    Why are we not able to see pics of the truck? where the autopsy report? Anyone know when or if they will be available soon?

    Liked by 1 person

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      about a week ago I heard it was goin to be 6 weeks for the autopsy report. I bet we will never see the type of crime scene photos that one should see for a murder scene. I bet the pictures that a non-official took of the shoe imprints, blood and glass will be all we will see of the crime scene.

      Liked by 1 person

      • oldiadguy says:

        Official autopsy reports usually take 4 to 6 weeks why waiting on toxicology reports. When my nephew was killed in an auto accident, his vehicle was broadsided, my brother had to wait over a month for the police and autopsy reports.

        If the occupants of the vehicle are not charged for any type of crime relative to the shooting, then it is unlikely that the crime scene photos will be released. The only time photos of a murder or police shooting scenes are shown to the public are during a trial. If the officers are charged then those photos used to prove the case will be presented in court.

        Don’t pay too much attention to the “findings” of the guy who took the “crime scene” photos four days after the incident. While the photos were helpful to get an idea of the lay of the land, the rest of his “evidence” was embarrassing. But then again we shouldn’t expect too much from a guy who took a “selfie” at the scene and posted it.

        Take Care

        Liked by 1 person

        • kinthenorthwest says:

          Oldie — I understand you professionalism in this issue… However, withstanding all other evidence I do feel that the photos after the incident do say something.
          Like I said I take it all with a grain of salt, except for the FBI I take with a jar of salt right now

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            It is the duty of every citizen to skeptical of what our government officials tells us. However, I would apply that same skepticism towards the many claims about what transpired in this case. The government isn’t the only entity that has an agenda.

            Take Care

            Like

    • jakeandcrew says:

      State officials refuse to release results of Finicum’s autopsy. Investigators also haven’t released Finicum’s truck or close-up pictures of it.

      Finicum’s family members commissioned a private autopsy and also declined to make it public.

      It doesn’t surprise me that the officials have not released anything. But why is the family not releasing their private autopsy results?

      Liked by 2 people

    • jakeandcrew says:

      Agents and troopers on scene have information that Finicum and the others would be armed.

      If they believed the occupants of the truck were armed, why in the world do they come out from behind their vehicles, or from the trees to shoot LaVoy? They’re an easy target for anyone in the truck. It doesn’t make sense.

      Liked by 2 people

      • oldiadguy says:

        One, the FBI agent who started to jump in front of Finicum’s truck apparently screwed up. If I was conducting the investigation that would be an area of interest.

        The trooper who broke cover and started to pursue Finicum also screwed up in my opinion. Finicum couldn’t run in the deep snow. He had multiple troopers/agents covering him and additional agents were pulling up. Finicum wasn’t going anywhere fast. Time is almost always on the side of the police in these situations.

        The trooper coming out of the trees is a mystery. I’ve looked at numerous videos, some colorized, some enlarged and it looks to me that the trooper was not wearing a coat, but appeared to be only wearing a short sleeved shirt. That trooper was not staked out in the woods as a sniper in that attire. There is a story as to what the trooper was doing in the trees in that attire. It will be interesting if we will hear it.

        Also, the trooper who came from the trees also appeared to be in pursuit of Finicum. This trooper screwed up by placing himself in the line of fire of the troopers/agents at the roadblock. In my opinion, he should have taken cover behind a tree and tried to force Finicum’s surrender.

        Take Care

        Liked by 1 person

        • lovely says:

          I have a theory on what happened with the trooper in the trees.

          As you said this was plan B, from the reaction of the trooper who jumped out in front of LaVoy’s truck and from the trooper behind the tree with no coat on, I think that they were caught a bit unawares with plan B.

          If I was writing the scene and had to make it make sense the men at plan B would have relaxed a little bit. Ammon and Mark were in custody under a peaceful surrender.

          From LaVoy’s truck, one man had gotten out of the truck and surrendered. LaVoy was parked at the Felony stop for about 4 minutes.

          Agents/troopers from Plan A were obviously in touch with agents/troopers assigned to Plan B.

          Now for the theory.

          I suspect that the trooper with no coat on was sitting in a warm vehicle and when they found out Plan A went to hell. This would account for his being in the tree line with no jacket and making the poor decision to be in a place where he would be the line of fire of the agents/troopers nearer the vehicles. A relaxed state of mind, thinking that plan A had worked would even lend some feasibility to the trooper who made the poor decision to jump in front of LaVoy’s truck.

          I don’t believe under any conditions that anyone with any training would have used a taser on LaVoy that in my mind simply doesn’t make sense.

          My 2 cents.

          Like

          • lovely says:

            Should read * And when they found out that Plan A went to hell he exited his vehicle quickly and headed to the tree line.

            Like

            • Pinkie says:

              My theory is that the LEO who almost got hit thought that the truck was going to hit the blocking vehicles and was trying to get out of the way. When the truck swerved around the roadblock at the last second he didn’t see it clearly (he was behind the road block) and couldn’t reverse direction fast enough

              Liked by 1 person

          • oldiadguy says:

            Bingo!! You are wonderful lovely!!!

            I must be getting slow in my old age. The spike strips!! This was probably the trooper who deployed the spike strips. That would explain why I couldn’t find his footprints going into the snow. I was looking in the wrong place.

            It makes perfect sense. The trooper is sitting in a warm car, everything seems to be going to plan and then Finicum takes off. Everyone is scrambling to execute their assigned tasks. The trooper bails out of the truck with spike strips and rapidly deploys them. He knows that Finicum is heading his way at a high rate of speed and he needs to get out of harms way. So the trooper gets out of the road, goes into the woods and heads back to the roadblock. While walking back the truck crashes into the snow bank, he sees that Finicum has bailed out of the truck and is heading his way. Not seeing any weapons, the trooper decides to try and deploy his Taser. This would be a normal response for a trooper or any LEO.

            Being caught by surprise might also explain while the agent started to cross into the truck’s path as it tried to go around the roadblock. What if this agent’s assignment was to be on the high ground in the woods to get a view of the driver’s side of the truck during the stop. He was scrambling to get where he was supposed to be and almost got hit.

            Nice work!!

            Liked by 1 person

            • oldiadguy says:

              Also, this scenario might explain why the other trooper broke cover. Finicum was reportedly armed and was heading towards the trooper in the trees. The trooper who broke cover was moving to backup his fellow trooper who was in the treeline.

              While we don’t know for sure if this is what, but it is far more likely than any of the conspiracy theories I’ve read.

              Again, nice work lovely!

              Liked by 1 person

    • QuadGMoto says:

      One thing that bugged me about this article was the continued use of the phrase “traffic stop”. How many times have you been pulled over by two black SUV’s and immediately had 6 or so rifles pointed at your car for a “traffic stop”? I’ve been pulled over four times, and if this “standard procedure” for a traffic stop, then those police were severely failing at their job.

      Liked by 2 people

      • jakeandcrew says:

        In the FBI Q&A posted below, a reporter asks, “This was described as a traffic stop. Was there some sort of traffic violation?” Bretzing answers, “No…that was not the purpose of the stop.”

        So they lied about that, and he thinks it’s kind of funny.

        Liked by 2 people

        • oldiadguy says:

          You are conflating how the media described it and what the law enforcement authorities said. What transpired was a “Felony Car Stop.” A felony car stop is a technique used to stop and arrest dangerous suspect(s) occupying a motor vehicle. In this case, the suspects were wanted for a federal felony, and known to carry firearms. They were stopped with the occupants of one vehicle complying and the other fled.

          Some reference material on high risk traffic stops.

          http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/9732-high-risk-traffic-stop-procedure

          Here is a video of a felony car stop.

          http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=police+felony+stop+procedures&view=detail&mid=E8AE7A167CD1ED447E29E8AE7A167CD1ED447E29&FORM=VIRE1

          Remember if you want the facts screwed up, just ask a reporter what happened. 🙂

          Take Care

          Liked by 2 people

          • QuadGMoto says:

            That discrepancy between “traffic stop” and the reality that it was a felony car stop is not coming from jackandcrew or me. I tried to find an actual quote that called it a “traffic stop” that was the source of that misuse. This is as close as I could get:

            JOHN DAY, Ore. — Ammon Bundy, the leader of an armed seizing of a federal wildlife refuge in rural eastern Oregon, was arrested and one person was killed Tuesday afternoon in a traffic stop in rural Oregon, the F.B.I. and the Oregon State Police said.

            Found here

            That phrase showed up in almost every news report I found that posted the evening of LaVoy’s death, which reinforces the statement above that it did come from the FBI and/or Oregon State Police. Sheriff Ward definitely called it that during the press conference the next day.

            I do lean towards questioning the authorities in this case in part because of this point, in part because of their absolute refusal to even acknowledge that the occupiers had specific grievances (see the press conference), and in part because those grievances were over actions taken by the authorities which have a strong basis in established facts.

            Liked by 2 people

            • oldiadguy says:

              Since we don’t have a audio recording of the law enforcement official that provide the information to the reporter, I have to lean towards the above statement was the reporter’s interpretation of the information they received.

              I doubt that Sheriff Ward knows what a felony car stop is as I believe he was a BLM employee before becoming sheriff.

              One other thought. This occurred in a rural area that probably doesn’t have a lot of violent crime. My guess is that most vehicle stops in the county are for traffic violations and not felony stops. The sheriff and the reporters may not know the difference. I posted a link to a video of a felony car stop elsewhere in this thread.

              Take Care

              Liked by 1 person

              • QuadGMoto says:

                I doubt that Sheriff Ward knows what a felony car stop is as I believe he was a BLM employee before becoming sheriff.

                That was cleared up pretty quickly in the thread where that theory was originally brought up. The BLM employee was a different David Ward. Sheriff Ward was working as a deputy in a different county at the time.

                Liked by 1 person

              • jakeandcrew says:

                This information was from a video – the Q&A following the press conference on 1/28/16.

                http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2016/02/fbi_agent_greg_bretzing_takes.html

                The reporter asks the question as I wrote above (at about 8:00), the FBI guy answers, “no” – then makes a bit of a joke of it.

                The observation that he seemed to think it was funny was my observation, not the reporter’s.

                Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  FWIW – My take is a bit different and it has to do with FBI authority issues. The reporter told the agent that reports indicated that it was a traffic stop and she asked what kind of traffic violations were committed.

                  The dual car stops were made by the FBI and I believe it was their HRT members who conducted the stops. The car stops were effected in order to effort the arrest of some the vehicle’s occupants for federal violations relative to the occupation of the reserve.

                  I believe what we saw the agent’s awkward attempt to answer the reporter’s uninformed question without embarrassing her and yet leave open the possibility that the drivers of the vehicle’s may have committed some kind of traffic violation that the OSP may wish to pursue. You see, the FBI doesn’t do traffic! In fact, it has been my experience and understanding that FBI agents do not have authority to arrest an individual on any state or local charges. Let give you an example.

                  Many years ago when I was a patrol officer, I received a call for suspicious person. It was a week or so before Christmas and we had just experienced a heavy snow fall. As I rounded the corner, I saw a vehicle parked at the curb with the truck partially open and I could see wrapped Christmas presents inside the trunk. Sitting on snow bank next to the car was a subject who appeared to be holding onto a parking meter.

                  As I pulled up to the car, I noticed that the truck lock had been punched, there was an object sitting on the roof of the car (later found to be a large screwdriver) and the subject sitting on the snow bank was handcuffed to the parking meter. I knew there was going to be good story on this call. 🙂

                  As I exited by vehicle, approached the subject and started to ask him what was going on, he simply pointed across the street to a small restaurant. I turned to look across the street and observed an individual exit the restaurant and walk across the street to my location. This individual identified himself and presented his FBI identification.

                  I started to congratulate the agent over his arrest when he stopped me and told me that he was going to be in trouble over his actions. The agent explained that he had no arrest authorities for any local charges and that his bosses were going to be very unhappy about his actions. The agent went on to explain that he was supposed to have just called in the incident, not take any action. However, when he saw what the suspect was stealing Christmas presents he knew he had to take action as the suspect would have been gone before the police arrived.

                  A long story short, the report was written that he made a “citizens arrest” and detained the suspect for police. His bosses to my knowledge were none the wiser.

                  So it is my opinion this was the agent’s awkward attempt to answer the reporter’s question without embarrassing her.

                  Take Care

                  Liked by 2 people

                • lovely says:

                  Agent Greg Bretzing gave a statement before he took questions, in his statement he refers to the stop of LaVoy as a traffic stop. The reporters in the room mistook this statement to mean that it was a stop because of a traffic violation. It was a traffic stop, simply because LaVoy was driving when the FBI/Troopers decided to make an arrest, not because of a traffic violation. There is no way for Agent Bretzing to qualify everything word he says to make sure that lay people understand what he is saying.

                  That said he could have cleared up a lot of confusion and speculation if he simply said a Felony stop.

                  The reporters question;

                  Given this was described as a traffic stop wasn’t there some kind of traffic violation?

                  Bretzing “No. Well, you know what there might have been, that was not the purpose of the call or the stop.”

                  Bretzing’s answer in which he smiles seems to indicate that the reporter doesn’t know what she is talking about. Bretzing could have taken the time to explain but my best guess is that he was operating under the misperception that the people in the room understood that the folks in the vehicles were being stopped and arrested for their actions at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge not being pulled over for a faulty tail light or any other vehicle violation.

                  Liked by 1 person

          • kinthenorthwest says:

            From What I understand Warrants were not issued until after the death of LaVoy.

            Liked by 1 person

            • oldiadguy says:

              When I first skimmed the affidavit I missed the last line saying the suspects had been arrested.

              Let me present this scenario based on my experience working with the FBI. First of all, FBI agents are investigators. They are not street cops. As a rule they do not make arrests like most LEO’s .

              As an example, in my old agency, any officer could arrest someone based on probable cause. The suspect would be booked, the report written and warrants would be applied for within 20 hours. The same would apply for our investigative units. For example: district detectives units, homicide, sex crimes, etc. These investigators would conduct their investigation, develop sufficient probable cause and make the arrest. Booking, report wrikting and warrant application procedures would be the same as the uniformed coppers.

              In my experience, the FBI prefers to conduct their investigation, obtain an indictment or if time is of the essence, obtain a warrant before making an arrest. An FBI agent can make a probable cause arrest, but that is out of the norm.

              The affidavit is a 32 page document, which was prepared by a young agent who was a former prosecutor prior to joining the FBI. I do not believe it was not written after the arrests as a report would normally be prepared by a police officer or detective.

              My suspicions is the affidavit was either complete or almost complete when the decision came down to make arrests. The agent completed the affidavit, took it to the local US Attorney’s Office where it was reviewed by at least two AUSA’s. Since this is very high profile case, I suspect it was also reviewed by DOJ as well. I suspect there were a number changes or additions made to meet the AUSA’s and DOJ concerns. The agent went back to her office to make the corrections.

              The agents in the field were probably waiting for word that warrants has been issued by a federal magistrate, but arrests were going to be either way. Arrests were going to happen wether they were based on probable cause or on a warrant issued by a magistrate.

              If the bureaucracy worked as it usually does, additional changes were being made at the request of the local USA and DOJ throughout the day. You should also note that most federal offices work 9am to 5pm, though they may have a Federal Magistrate on call. By the time the agent returned with the amended affidavit, news of the shooting reached her and the affidavit had to be amended again. I suspect that Finicum was named in the original affidavit. I base this on the fact that he was a major player in the occupation and that Finicum said and did a number of things that could have caused him to be included in the conspriacy charge.

              While I do not know if the outline I stated above is fact, but based on my experience, I believe this is a likely scenario in regard to the affidavit.

              Take Care

              Liked by 1 person

              • kinthenorthwest says:

                All I know is that the blind curve road stop was illegal and meant to create problems or what did happen.
                I beileve that regardless of what comes from the FBI that LaVoy was murdered. What happened that night was meant as a message to farmers/ranchers to stand back and let the government SCREW you, or you will face the same fate as LaVoy.
                Yes, my mind is made up in the area of LaVoy being murdered.

                Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  “All I know is that the blind curve road stop was illegal and meant to create problems or what did happen.”

                  I’m not sure what you are saying here, but don’t bother to try to explain, I see where you are going with this.

                  “Yes, my mind is made up in the area of LaVoy being murdered.”

                  I assumed that this was the case by reading some of your prior comments. This is a shame as the truth has no agenda.

                  Please take care.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • kinthenorthwest says:

                  Truth is that you can look it up…Blind curves are illegal for road blocks. At night that should make it doubly illegal.
                  What if that had been someone else traveling on that road that night..It was dark. Have you been down that road? Well I have an it is tree lined hairpins curves for many miles. This was a set up.
                  Old I don’t care if you have a Law Degree, you are not using your brains.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  “Truth is that you can look it up…Blind curves are illegal for road blocks.”

                  Would you be so kind as to cite the statute that makes road blocks on blind curves illegal?

                  I suspect you are confusing a check point with a road block. They are used for different purposes.

                  “At night that should make it doubly illegal.”

                  Also, the incident occurred around 4:30 PM, and was shown by the video, it was still light.

                  No I have not traveled the highway where the stop occurred as I live in the Midwest.

                  As I have stated early in this discussion and has been discussed several times, the roadblock was Plan B. The felony car stop was Plan A.

                  No I do not have a law degree, but I do have extensive law enforcement training, and decades of experience from which I base by opinion.

                  Take Care

                  Liked by 1 person

                • kinthenorthwest says:

                  The road block was put up WAY prior to them leaving the first stop.
                  Old there are many current and retired LEOS out there Some LEOS are good bright and honest & some are totally dishonest &/or idiots.
                  In my opinion I will say that those who brag too much about who or what they are or where are questionable. Kind of like politicians

                  Like

                • Pinkie says:

                  Kink, I know that you feel strongly about this but there is no need to engage in an ad hominem attack on Oldiadguy.

                  He has not been bragging at all and I find his posts have been factual and respectful in tone.

                  For a site that is generally supportive of law-enforcement, it is surprising to see so many anti-cop comments.

                  I have to conclude that it is political. If a government building had been taken over by Black Lives Matter protesters, I think you would be singing a different tune.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • lovely says:

                  Where did the blind curve truth come from? It is obviously not a hairpin curve and it is obviously set up in a place where a vehicle would have time to stop once the roadblock did come into sight.

                  The roadblock was not illegal.

                  395 is mostly a long stretch of almost straight road with long curves that runs right through the Malheur National Forest. I had family in Oregon. If my family member was alive today I have no doubt he would have joined the CfCF at the MWR.

                  My understanding is that the blockade was set up about 20 miles north of Burns.

                  Liked by 1 person

  23. jakeandcrew says:

    From Dennis Michael Lynch’s FB Page:

    BUNDY’S WIFE to DML: “Ammon is not getting his full one-hour break from solitary confinement each day.”
    DML: “I will help you get that changed.”
    Lisa Bundy speaks for the first time since Ammon Bundy was indicted. See the exclusive interview with her and DML. It is sure to get you upset. Tune into DENNIS MICHAEL LYNCH: UNFILTERED, this Monday night at 9pmET only on NewsmaxTV.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. jakeandcrew says:

    http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2016/02/fbi_agent_greg_bretzing_takes.html

    Q&A session after FBI briefing when video was released.

    Cannot hear all of the questions, but this answer was clear:

    FBI says –
    “Lethal force was used as the vehicle approached the checkpoint.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • QuadGMoto says:

      What date was this press conference held on? What date was the autopsy completed? It seems likely that they already knew how many time he had been shot. If that’s the case, they are definitely suppressing information.

      Liked by 2 people

      • jakeandcrew says:

        This was a Q&A session after the 1/28/16 press conference when they first released the video. So it’s two days after the shooting.

        I don’t know when the autopsy was completed.

        Liked by 2 people

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      Lethal force, along with them expecting to shoot people.

      Liked by 1 person

    • lovely says:

      Lethal force was used when LaVoy aimed his vehicle at the small space between a high snow bank and the vehicles used in the roadblock. It simply is not reasonable to believe that LaVoy did not pose an immediate threat to every agent and trooper around the roadblock when LaVoy chose to barrel through rather than stop.

      My guess is that this was the shot that injured Ryan Bundy.

      Liked by 1 person

      • jakeandcrew says:

        “He aimed his vehicle…”
        “…LaVoy chose to barrel through rather than stop.”

        How can you say he “chose to barrel through” when he was applying the brakes from the time he saw the roadblock? Was it even possible for him to stop if he tried, since they placed the roadblock around a blind curve? Did he “aim” his vehicle, like one “aims” a weapon, or did he swerve to avoid hitting the trucks and the officers in the roadblock?

        I don’t think we can say for sure either way, until the FBI releases better video, which I’d be willing to bet a bundle that they have. Americans need to pressure them to release more. If there was no wrongdoing on their part, they need to prove it.

        But even then, I still believe what they did was wrong. They didn’t need to arrest these men in this way. LaVoy was not a danger to anyone until they trapped him in – and even then, he came out of the truck with his hands up. What happened after that is total conjecture until we see the other half of that video with infrared (per mrrabbit), and/or video with audio.

        Concerning Ryan Bundy – since he was hunkered down in the floorboard behind LaVoy, I don’t see how he could have gotten shot from a bullet coming through the windshield, unless it went all the way through LaVoy first.

        Liked by 1 person

        • lovely says:

          The vehicle in pursuit of LaVoy arrived 3 seconds after LaVoy hit the snowbank. The vehicle behind LaVoy was easily able to stop. That means the pursuit vehicle was traveling at roughly the same speed as LaVoy’s truck.

          LaVoy could have stopped his truck. It appears from the video he was attempting to try and continue to flee by squeezing through the space between the big snow bank and the roadblock. The roadblock was logically set up so that a vehicle coming around the curve would have time to stop once the driver saw the roadblock.

          If the roadblock was set up to be an immovable object to meet an unstoppable force that the the agents and troopers would be no where near their vehicles. There is nothing to indicate that LaVoy would not try to bypass the roadblock.

          We will have to agree to disagree on having knowledge of what position Ryan Bundy was in when LaVoy approached the roadblock.

          If one is going to try an seek justice one has to accept the evidence as it is not as one would like it be.

          Again I agree with the spirit of the CfCF and I believe that this could have and should have been handled differently, starting with Sheriff Ward’s invitation to have the feds come in and take over a local matter. Once the local sheriff who has jurisdiction surrendered that power to the feds it became a very dangerous situation for the CfCF.

          Liked by 2 people

  25. LadyRavenSDC says:

    To the treehouse folks posting here. I have been away for near a week. No web access at all.
    I just want to thank all of you for posts/comments above where I am able to do some catch up, and am so appreciative that you are just not letting this go!
    I found the video below last night – you don’t even need to listen to the audio –

    Liked by 6 people

  26. jakeandcrew says:

    How did it go from this…

    Meeting peacefully together…

    To this…

    Who escalated this into violence?

    Ammon Bundy met with the FBI within their compound the Friday before the shooting. He was at the Sheriff’s Dept. that same day. They could have arrested him then. Why didn’t they? Why did they instead set up this bogus traffic stop (and in the Q&A session, FBI guy admits there was no traffic violation, with a smirk)?

    For a charge of keeping some federal employees from work, they set up an ambush, with a roadblock around a blind curve, and snipers in position in the trees? Come on!

    It was NOT necessary, which means they wanted a violent end to this. They wanted a shootout.

    Liked by 3 people

  27. jewelsc6 says:

    The FBI/OSP prepared a Sniper Killing Nest to take out an American in advance. The site at the deadly road block on a blind corner, had extensive preparations for killing LaVoy Finicum. Snowmobile tracks everywhere, branches cut down from trees to open the line of fire, boot prints of sniper positions, including the snipers identified in the video footage. This was a set up to shoot at the vehicle during the first stop and create a situation where Lavoy would take off. This is the all powerful ultra high tech FBI with a 96 megapixel video camera attached to a chopper. Why such lousy footage? Why the “focus”issues at critical moments? https://www.facebook.com/DMLdaily/videos/1111860372186752/ And the DOJ recommends body cams yet they had NO body cams

    Liked by 2 people

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      As Dennis Lynch pointed out, something happened when they did the close up that should not have happened during any type of video…

      Liked by 1 person

      • jewelsc6 says:

        This was an ambush imo. They could have gotten them all to show up at the meeting, told town’s people to go home and arrested them when they arrived.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Pinkie says:

          Arresting them at the meeting would put too many other folks at risk. Storming the refuge would have been very risky too.

          Taking the opportunity to arrest the leadership of the group in an isolated area was clearly the most sensible way to go.

          You can argue whether or not the spilt second decision by the OSP officer to fire in a highly tense situation was premature. But LaVoy put himself in a position where his life depended upon the split second judgment of that officer by acting unpredictably — and by not following LEOs instructions like the like the other occupants of the truck did.

          It is hard to argue that if LaVoy had acted like the other occupants of the truck he would be alive — just like they are.

          Liked by 1 person

          • QuadGMoto says:

            It is hard to argue that if LaVoy had acted like the other occupants of the truck he would be alive — just like they are.

            It’s even harder to argue that any action they could take would have saved everyone given that they had already been fired at during the original stop and the admitted (by the lead FBI agent at the Q&A) use of “lethal force” against the truck when it was approaching the roadblock.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Pinkie says:

              I don’t think that argument makes sense. Everyone was saved other than Lavoy and he was not killed at the initial stop or while approaching the roadblock.

              Also, you are cherry picking statements from the FBI agent at the Q&A. He stated that use of lethal force commenced as the truck approached the roadblock but he denied that anyone fired upon the vehicle at the initial stop.

              In my opinion, firing at a truck bearing down upon you at a high rate of speed is justified.

              Liked by 2 people

              • jewelsc6 says:

                No one should have been killed and how would anyone at the meeting be injured if they were all told to go home? This was an ambush they planned to shoot to kill, the reason the rest are alive is because they shouted women were in the truck so they stopped shooting.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Pinkie says:

                  It is always regrettable when there is loss of life. However, high-speed chases often end badly and it was fortunate that only one was killed.

                  I can’t see why you think it would’ve been safer to apprehend well armed militia leaders at a meeting in a populated area instead of on an isolated stretch of highway. They may have surrendered peacefully but maybe not. Why risk a shoot-out or hostage situation?

                  My own view is that LaVoy wanted to be a martyr for his cause and he succeeded. He gave the OSP troopers little choice but to do what they did.

                  Liked by 2 people

                • kinthenorthwest says:

                  Road blocks at blind corners are illegal. this was not a high speed chase.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • oldiadguy says:

                  “My own view is that LaVoy wanted to be a martyr for his cause and he succeeded. He gave the OSP troopers little choice but to do what they did.”

                  I concur, I have had the same opinion for some days now.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • lovely says:

                There is also the fact that Ryan Payne got out of LaVoy’s car, peacefully surrendered and was not killed.

                This fact alone has made me hold Victoria and Shawna’s accounts of the Felony stop at arms length. Why would Ryan get out of the LaVoy’s truck if he was fired upon for putting his open hands out of the open window? What good faith would Payne have to get out of the truck?

                Liked by 1 person

                • Lovely said: “There is also the fact that Ryan Payne got out of LaVoy’s car, peacefully surrendered and was not killed.”

                  Just to clarify, it was Ryan Bundy, not Ryan Payne, who was in LaVoy’s vehicle. Also, he did not get out and surrender until after LaVoy was shot and LE fired various projectiles including some kind of gas at the vehicle, per the admission of LE.

                  Like

                • lovely says:

                  Ryan Payne got out of the truck at the Felony stop before LaVoy fled. Payne was in LaVoys truck. Payne got out of LaVoy’s truck at the Felony stop # 1 and surrendered and was not harmed.

                  Ryan Bundy remained in LaVoy’s truck until Felony stop # 2 where he also complied and surrendered.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Thanks, lovely. I need to watch the original video again for a refresher.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • oldiadguy says:

                  Also, when the shots were supposedly fired, would have been the time to flee. Not many minutes later after one of your members was able to surrender peacefully.

                  Take Care

                  Liked by 1 person

              • kinthenorthwest says:

                Several witnesses say that there were shots fired at the first stop. If I remember right the FBI fink even said as much.There was no high rate of speed,
                The officer if you noticed ran in front of the vechile.

                Liked by 2 people

        • kinthenorthwest says:

          Or when they left.

          Like

    • QuadGMoto says:

      Remember, the guy in the woods looks like he was wearing a short sleeve shirt. He also appears to be shooting a pistol. Both points are inconsistent with staging a sniper, especially in the snow like that. Further, breaking cover and heading back towards the road is also contrary to the reason you set up a sniping spot with a good view, cover, and shooting area.

      The role of a sniper is to see (and if necessary, shoot) without being seen.

      IMHO, using loaded phrases like “Sniper Killing Nest” to describe him is contrary to the evidence, and therefore harmful to your ability to make a compelling argument that people will accept. Please stop.

      Liked by 3 people

  28. kinthenorthwest says:

    Article says most Burns people are against the ocuppiers, which is not what I am hearing and seeing.
    Turns out the ranchers and famers in my area are quite Pl$$ed at the federal government.

    Cliven Bundy Is Coming To Burns, Portland
    Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy is coming to Oregon to demonstrate on behalf of his sons Ammon and Ryan Bundy, as well as the remaining four armed occupants of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

    Nevada State Assemblywoman Michele Fiore confirmed to OPB that she, along with other state lawmakers from western states, will be traveling to meet Bundy in Burns and in Portland.

    Fiore said the final details of the trip are still being planned, but she expects to be in Portland on Thursday night to protest the jailing of Ammon and Ryan Bundy.

    “There is a Nevadan [Ryan Bundy] sitting in jail, and as an office holder, I will be there to demand his release,” Fiore said. “If that Nevadan can’t leave Oregon, we will bring Nevada to him. Peaceful, of course.”

    http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/cliven-bundy-is-coming-to-burns-portland/#.VrkjEaNSyOd.twitter

    Liked by 4 people

  29. kinthenorthwest says:

    Had to share this, for just looking at it brought tears.

    Liked by 6 people

  30. kinthenorthwest says:

    Shawna Cox Speaks Out About Oregon Occupation Killing LaVoy Finicum Died During Confrontation With Police

    http://www.good4utah.com/news/local-news/shawna-cox-speakings-out-about-oregon-occupation-killing

    Liked by 2 people

  31. LadyRavenSDC says:

    Finicum Family Attorney Todd McFarlane on release of independent autopsy – @ 1:00 mark –

    Liked by 3 people

  32. kinthenorthwest says:

    Published on Feb 8, 2016
    The wife of rancher Ammon Bundy, Lisa Bundy, joins Dennis to discuss LaVoy Finicum’s shooting as well as provide an update of what’s going on now
    DML Unfiltered | Lisa Bundy discusses LaVoy Finicum’s shooting

    Liked by 3 people

    • jakeandcrew says:

      Per Lisa Bundy:

      Ammon and all of the men currently in jail (the county jail) from the occupation of the refuge center are being held in solitary confinement.

      Ammon’s description of his confinement, per Lisa – a 6 x 6 cell, with a “board” to sleep on (no mattress), a small toilet, a small sink, no windows, a slot to slide food in – and that’s it.

      He’s supposed to get 1 hour per day put of his cell, but even that has been shortened many days, sometimes to 15 minutes.

      Why are they in solitary confinement – for a charge of keeping federal workers from their job?! We all know they were engaging in political protest, and they were lawfully bearing arms, while they lawfully, peacefully, assembled together. They didn’t damage anything. They never shot a weapon. They didn’t hurt anyone.

      And now the government, in its continuing abuse of power and heavy-handed actions against landowners and those who would support them, have caused the death of one man, and are now inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on these other men – punishment usually reserved for the most dangerous criminals.

      Liked by 2 people

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        In a day and age where Solitary confinement is being investigated by federal, state and local governments, that jail is treading on thin lines.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I think the heavy-handed approach stems from LE fear of the “sovereign citizen” movement, which uses their own version of government-style action like notification documents, citizen courts, etc. to threaten LE and government employees. I say this because even though the refuge is 30 miles from Burns, LE set up barricades by the county courthouse and took over the airport. This sounds like they were preparing for something bigger, but their sources got it wrong.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Also, I see now in the documents posted by BigMamaTEA further indication of this fear. The Memorandum In Support of Pretrial detention and at least one other document say that Sheriff Ward was told the occupiers had explosives, night vision goggles and would “take the fight to town.” The documents describe postings by provocateurs all over social media including numerous inflammatory statements by Payne and Ritzheimer, specifically calling for militia groups to assist. According to the documents, Payne started his own militia group, Operation Mutual Aid, a couple years ago, but it is unclear if it was actually a group or just him alone. Back in 2014 he contacted the Bundy family and volunteered his “services” – also described above.

          Also, I thought this all started in late December, but the documents say Payne and Ammon Bundy met with Sheriff Ward back in October, so there was a lot of water under the bridge, so to speak.

          Liked by 1 person

  33. kinthenorthwest says:

    Interesting video with some interesting information that could be reason behind Bundy and Hammond
    1/04/2016 — Hammond + Bundy “Ranches” — Volcanoes, Gold, URANIUM + BLM / Government

    Liked by 1 person

  34. jewelsc6 says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glSNUK2ozYQ Lavoys truck is over in Bend Oregon near where I lived. Tha’ts Deshutes County, who are doing some sort of investigation.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. kinthenorthwest says:

    Interesting????

    Like

  36. kinthenorthwest says:

    This is what its all about.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. kinthenorthwest says:

    Liked by 2 people

  38. jakeandcrew says:

    Uranium, Clinton’s, and Russia – perhaps WHY the government wants to take the land from the ranchers, particularly, the Hammond’s.

    http://constitutionrising.com/archives/25875

    The video news report within the article is key. It chronicles how “Uranium One” became a Russian-owned company with the help of the (generously reimbursed) Clinton’s. And with that acquisition, Russia now controls 50% of the USA’s uranium production.

    Southeast Oregon is rich in uranium. From BLM’s website:
    Uranium on BLM-Administered Lands in OR/WA

    In September 2011, a representative from Oregon Energy, L.L.C. (formally Uranium One), met with local citizens, and county and state officials, to discuss the possibility of opening a uranium oxide (“yellowcake”) mine in southern Malheur County in southeastern Oregon. Oregon Energy is interested in developing a 17-Claim parcel of land known as the Aurora Project through an open pit mining method. Besides the mine, there would be a mill for processing. The claim area occupies about 450 acres and is also referred to as the “New U” uranium claims.
    On May 7, 2012, Oregon Energy LLC made a presentation to the BLM outlining its plans for development for the mine.
    The Vale District has agreed to work with Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife on mitigation for the “New U” uranium claims, which are located in core sage grouse habitat. Although the lands encompassing the claims have been designated core, the area is frequented by rockhounds and hunters, and has a crisscrossing of off-highway vehicle (OHV) roads and other significant land disturbance from the defunct Bretz Mercury Mine, abandoned in the 1960s.
    However, by the fall of 2012 the company said that it was putting its plans for the mine on hold until the uncertainty surrounding sage grouse issues was resolved.
    Location information for the Aurora Project can be found on the “Non-Renewable Energy Projects of Oregon” map at this website: http://www.blm.gov/or/energy.

    http://www.blm.gov/or/energy/uranium.php

    Liked by 2 people

  39. jakeandcrew says:

    Wow. A quick Google search on “Aurora Project Oregon” yielded this article which links the project directly to the Hammond’s.

    “Uranium One and Eastern Oregon…
    What is Bundy’s Militia really fighting for?”

    http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/uranium-one-and-eastern-oregon/152735

    Basically, to offset the environmental impact of uranium mining on the land, the government has to have huge amounts of mitigation land – land to “replace” whatever has been “displaced” by the mining operation. That’s why they need the Hammond’s land. As deadlines approached, they got uglier and uglier with the Hammond’s. The government needs their land in order to continue with the uranium mining plans.

    There are many links in this article to explore.

    Liked by 3 people

  40. jakeandcrew says:

    A U.S. Army Sergeant shares many inconsistencies of the FBI video of the “traffic stop” – knowledge from someone experienced in this technology.

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2016/02/us-army-sergeant-lavoy-finicum-murder-video-had-inconsistencies/

    His information goes right along with this comment from mrrabbit, earlier on this thread:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/31/fbi-video-release-of-lavoy-finicum-shooting-and-why-cth-is-reluctant-to-engage/comment-page-1/#comment-2005205

    Liked by 2 people

    • jakeandcrew says:

      The official FBI position on this – there was another plane in the air, also recording, but the quality of that recording was worse than the one they released.

      http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2016/02/fbi_agent_greg_bretzing_takes.html
      (First question and answer on the video)

      Liked by 2 people

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        Last few times I have look at Oregon State Police they have cams on their cars.
        Last time I was top the officer looked like he had a cam. (Yea i was speeding a bit, but he let me go with a warning. .

        Liked by 1 person

    • jakeandcrew says:

      This video is given as an example of what the FBI video could and should look like. The same technology was used.

      Liked by 3 people

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      This is coming from so many out there in law enforcement & military
      At a time when so many live in fear of the federal government it is good

      Liked by 1 person

    • oldiadguy says:

      You may want to consider the source on the first link. Here is another link to a video by Allen Lardieri.

      http://sgtsteffen.com/allen-lardieri-calls-vets-to-arms/

      To put it gently, the guy is a “Nut!” He is not advocating violence, yet he has his cool tact kit in full view in the back seat and his tricked out AR15 on the seat next to him. He talks about talking out sleeper cells with his camo’ed Ruger MKIII .22 pistol while he screws on a suppressor. Yep, he is not advocating any violence. SMH

      Yes, mrrabbit’s comment does parallel with the freedomoutpost article. Maybe, the source of both articles are the same. mrrabbitt’s screen name seems ironic as it appears to me that he trying to lead folks down a rabbit hole? Will the Cheshire cat and the Mad Hatter be commenting next? Folks these are agenda driven articles. Articles like this have been all over the far right fringe for a long time.

      Please think carefully about some of these articles. The CTH is better than this.

      Take Care

      Like

      • jakeandcrew says:

        “The CTH is better than this.”

        Concerning Alan Lardieri – I watched several of his videos. He’s part of the patriot movement, and he isn’t a nut. He’s actually pretty levelheaded in his passion for defending America. I see nothing wrong with posting his video. I feel it’s credible.

        Concerning mrrabbit – you’re discounting his comment because of his screen name? His comment was “liked” by 9 treepers, and was also affirmatively commented on by BigMamaTea.

        I’m sorry, oldiadguy, but I don’t see anything in what I posted deserving of that comment.

        Liked by 1 person

        • jakeandcrew, I looked at the freedomoutpost page about the official video’s discrepancies, but didn’t watch the Lardieri video on that site because of browser problems.

          Later I was able to watch the Lardieri video posted by oldiadguy, which was very concerning. My thought is that this guy is trying to lure militia supporters into doing something dumb or worse. Since I didn’t see the one you posted (and with all the browser issues I’ve had tonight I’m avoiding it for now), I’m wondering if the Lardieri videos you’ve seen have a similar flavor or are more tame.

          Like

          • jakeandcrew says:

            I think they are more tame. He has a Facebook page, if you’re on FB. He also has videos on YouTube. After watching several of his videos, I saw that he denounces the kind of person that impulsively picks up a gun and runs out the door to join some cause.

            He supports being in a group, training and organizing, etc… He wants level heads, commitment, and patriotism – is my impression. He’s not a hothead with a gun.

            I think the video that oldiadguy posted was made soon after the terrorist shooting at a military recruitment office, and possibly carried more emotion than usual because of that.

            Also, although he supports the protesters in Oregon, and their cause – he did not, and does not support the way they went about it.

            Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          “I’m sorry, oldiadguy, but I don’t see anything in what I posted deserving of that comment.”

          jakeandcrew – I am sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention. I was trying with that comment and all of my comments to either provide a rational alternative explanation to the agenda driven information that is being put out. My comment was aimed at the direction of the thread and not specifically at your comment.

          I check in here at the CTH in bits and pieces throughout the day and I comment whenever I have some free time. After reading the my comment again I know that I should have explained further and I will try to do so later today. Please except my apology, I meant no harm.

          Take Care

          Liked by 1 person

          • jakeandcrew says:

            No worries, oldiadguy! I appreciate your taking the time to respond to me. This is such a passionate subject – I got my feathers ruffled, and I apologize for that.

            I have the utmost respect and gratitide for the men and women in law enforcement. I hope that is not lost in my strong feelings about this case. My anger is with the corruption in the federal government, and those pulling the strings, and making these horrible decisions.

            Speaking of horrible, the two police officers who were killed in Maryland yesterday – just awful. I used to live within a quarter mile of where that happened. It shakes you to the core. I feel so sorry for them and their families.

            Thank you for your service, oldiadguy, and I enjoy reading your stories very much. Keep them coming. 🙂

            Liked by 3 people

  41. kinthenorthwest says:

    Hard to post lately to due Script sign that keeps popping up Anyone else with that problem.

    Like

  42. kinthenorthwest says:

    Jake your elk video was shared by my with several LaVoy pro sites and it really brought up many questions. Thank you

    Like

    • jakeandcrew says:

      You’re very welcome. I think I got it from the CfCF Support Group’s facebook page. I’ve been checking in on quite a few, so it’s hard to keep track. 🙂

      If there is a better video, I hope LaVoy’s family will demand it be released.

      Liked by 1 person

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        Its really interesting what we have gathered isn’t it .
        We may not be professionals but we have done a lot.
        We have turned up evidence that supports the public versus the LEOs. Sad in a way, but if the Law Enforcement wants the support of the public they should follow laws too.

        Liked by 3 people

  43. kinthenorthwest says:

    The Tao of LaVoy Finicum

    Liked by 1 person

    • jakeandcrew says:

      The four remaining protesters have come to an agreement with the FBI. They will all calm down and wait until morning, and at 8:00 am, the four will proceed to a checkpoint, without their weapons, where they will be met by Michele Fiore, Nevada state assemblywoman, and Rev. Franklin Graham. Both of these individuals talked with the protesters during this tense night with the FBI closing in on them, and helped them come to this peaceful resolution.

      Thank God.

      I only wish LaVoy Finicum had been given such a chance.

      Liked by 3 people

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      LaVoy should have had a chance…He was MURDERED
      I think the reason they backed off is that of 50,000 people were listening to the live feed of them, along with 2 assembly people coming & Franklin Graham. They knew they that these were people they did not want to hassle with.

      Like

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