GOP Debate Number Four – What Can Be Expected?….

FNB debate 2

Prior to debate #1 (Fox – Ohio) we shared the expectation that Megyn Kelly would confront/attack candidate Donald Trump to aide in framing a “sexism” narrative.  Obviously, we were not disappointed.

Prior to debate #2 (CNN – Regan Library CA) we shared the expectation of a stacked and controlled GOPe audience and the beginning of what we called “operation hummingbird“, the intentionally aided advancement of Carly Fiorina and Marco Rubio.  Again, obviously we were not disappointed.

Prior to debate #3 (CNBC – Colorado) we shared the expectation that Governor John Kasich would be the attack dog, and using home-field advantage Jeb Bush would have an opportunity to shine in a state controlled by family RNC membership.  Unfortunately, Jeb whiffed the Tee Ball, and the bias of the CNBC panel stole the limelight, but the expectation was again clearly evidenced.

So what portends for Debate #4 ?

The Fox Business News debate will continue the script where the other three left off.  The goal never stops being the removal of Donald Trump.  And the increased residual benefit of Op Hummingbird will still be in place.  Marco Rubio has a structural RNC/GOPe goal to get within striking distance of Donald Trump, while a team of handlers will work earnestly to keep Jeb from further damage.  Look for Jeb to retain his current position as possum.

Expect Governor John Kasich to go back on the attack.  In debate #3 Trump dispatched him with the Lehman Brothers atomic hammer before Kasich could do any damage.  We should expect Kasich to try again – he has no other role, he’s not even trying to get ballot access for the actual primary state races.

Kasich will most likely bring back up the Eminent Domain issue.  He tried in #3 but was drowned out.  This attack is also possible from Rand Paul and/or Marco Rubio with a possible three-way pile on.

This is a Wall Street Journal sponsored debate, so Rupert Murdoch’s wishes and instructions will be met.   Rubio must be protected from damage as he is the vessel to deliver Jeb.

Donald Trump only has one person on stage who doesn’t fully support TPP and that’s Rand Paul, sort of – Rand didn’t support the “fast track secrecy” aspect.  Expect TPP to be discussed.  Also expect the Statehood of Puerto Rico, and the associated bailout, to be a topic although the bailout aspect might be downplayed so a more favorable narrative can be presented.

The larger goal will be to structure the discussion points to make Trump seem alone and out-of-it, out of the group, in his positions.   Given the media beating delivered to Carson, and with Christie and Huckabee relegated to the kiddie-table debate there will not be any others on stage to interrupt or stop the nonsense.  Carson will be in survival mode.

Immigration may come up and obviously painting Trump as the mean guy who is too harsh will be another approach toward further isolation.

Rand Paul and Carly Fiorina stand to lose the most.  iSnarly will be chomping at the bit to get in those rehearsed talking points.  Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio stand to gain the most as each is poised to advance upon the significant polling advantage of Trump/Carson if either of them can be diminished.

Cruz absolutely needs the Carson voters if he is to gain any upward mobility.   The preacher voice/tone will be Cruz’s preferred collection tool.

fnb debate 4

Both Fox and WSJ are media entities within the larger Wall Street Globalist cause.  Global economic and financial issues will permeate any financial/business discussion.

Any issue where the 6 Globalists can unite will be emphasized.   Similarly any issue which isolates Donald Trump will also be emphasized.  The candidates and the panel can unite against Trump and define him as an isolationist/nationalist.

Trump Advantages:

  • The only candidate who has actually created anything.
  • The only candidate not beholden to special interests of donors.
  • The only candidate focused on current American best interests.
  • How about we worry first about the 50 states we do have, and the fiscal stability therein, before we worry about the 51st state we don’t have. etc.
  • How about we care about the employment success and opportunity of all current Americans, before we discuss open employment for those outside our borders. etc.
  • TPP as currently constructed is a framework for China and Russia to gain even more economic influence via back-door additions.  Trump can call that out, the TPP bought and paid for candidates are unable to engage – they have to sell the globalist talking points.
  • Almost any issue can be framed around those wealthy “donors”, special interests, and  Wall Street Super-PACs who bring a vested interest into any of the other candidates platforms.
  • A successful family – solid kids – no hidden issues he’s unwilling to take ownership of.

Your thoughts?

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292 Responses to GOP Debate Number Four – What Can Be Expected?….

  1. Pops says:

    Trump has just fired the first shot before the debate has even begun:

    Will the moderators bring this up tonight? I doubt it, but I imagine “someone” will bring it up anyway. If he does manage to slip in a plug for his policy statement, it will be interesting to see which candidate will be the first to say Trump is not being “nice” to the Chinese. Yeb?

    Liked by 4 people

    • Tonawanda says:

      The Trump program you link is great as policy and as politics.

      The “waste, fraud and abuse,” and the “eliminate redundancies” always gets a skeptical response, but Trump is actually the sort of person who will implement a meticulous examination and enforceable program with the right people to get it done.


  2. KBR says:

    Yesterday talking heads stated
    1) Fiorino needs one great line.
    2) Bush needs to take out Kasich.(Does this mean Kasich is gonna be a willing patsy so heb looks good? Or that he and Rubio won’t be truly battling yet, just soft-skirmishes?)
    3) Rubio needs to “get his message out” a message apparently of “We need to seal the border before we can address immigration policies. We have to show voters we will actually do what we say we will do.”
    Notes on Rubio:
    “seal the border” –not build a wall as if there’s a zip-lock slider we can slide?
    “Before we can begin work on immigration”– is this like “you have to vote on it before you can read it?”
    “Have to show voters we will follow through” –how, when they haven’t already?
    btw Rubio looked very very pale, smile pasted on…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Notmeagain says:

      But today, we have two tantalizing news bits on the J-R smackdown. Erick Erickson (I know, I know) reports that Mike Murphy will spend $20 million to take down Rubio, the traitor.
      This is a say what?! story.
      Meanwhile Rubio comes out with an anti Jeb ad which uses Jeb’s past words against him. Weak sauce, actually rather confirming the traitor characterization.
      Setting up an expectation of a fight in the debate? Since otherwise they might have to talk about TPP or other financial matters that would make them look bad?


      • TheTorch says:

        Great news, I thought they may go for the Kamikaze approach, nothing but predictable, the bushes, also in line with Sundance’s GOPe road map, that the road is indeed paved for Jebby. Let them rip each other apart, Trump will deal with the left overs… 🙂


    • TheTorch says:

      Kasich was already taken out… by the mighty Trump, did they not watch the last debate ? Bit slow these GOPe guys…


  3. snaggletooths says:

    It helps Trump that he unveiled his US-China Reform Position today
    Hopefully that topic comes up in the debate tonight.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. flawesttexas says:

    Since Fox and WSJ are very much Free Trade Communist Globalist…I bet they stay away from ObamaTrade – TPP. Note how little coverage from TPP supporter media since Obama has sent the deal to Congress

    Because Trump is the only one consistent with the majority of Americans on free trade and illegal immigration….Fox & WSJ may not go there


  5. Kevin Roy says:

    Operation Hummingbird came to mind when Megyn Kelly announced she will be hosting the FOX NEWS post debate commentary. Her and her establishment pundents will favor establishment candidates as winners and either ignore Trump points, or tear him down.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Kay Elle says:

    I haven’t seen much discussion about Bill O’Reilly here, but I have some observations that I think are significant – especially in light of the fact that O’Reilly carries a LOT of weight on FNC and his ratings are huge.

    1.) Megyn Kelly used to have a weekly segment on The Factor. She has not been on even once since the first debate. I’m betting this is his choice, not hers. He used to promote her, now doesn’t even mention her except at the end of his program when he says “The Kelly File is next.”
    2.) He and Trump have both stated that they are long-time friends.
    3.) He interviews Trump on The Factor at least once a week and allows him more leeway than he does any other guest to make his point and state his case.
    4.) Last week, he brought up what’s been said about Carson and Rubio and told Trump that these were “small ball” issues, totally insignificant in this presidential campaign. Said (rightly) that voters want to hear how he’ll take care of what’s important. Sounded to me like some friendly advice and Trump responded with that thoughtful head nod he does.

    Related: Friday, BOR did a total take down of George Will – to his face. Granted, this was in response to Will’s column excoriating O’Reilly’s book on Reagan, but he called him a hack and followed the segment by saying that George Will has never been a Factor contributor because of his elitist style. Last night, he expanded on that a bit and even mentioned Charles Krauthammer. Said something to the effect that Krauthammer has elitist tendencies too, but “We like Charles and he listens to reason.”

    Best of all, during the mail segment – which was entirely on the subject of O’Reilly vs. Will – one of the critical letters called his attitude “Trumpian”. He smiled BIG at that. He also made a point of saying that George Will considered him a “Vulgarian”, said that he was proud to be one and would always be. Called it the word of the day and ended the program by repeating it.

    Liked by 6 people

    • stillhopeful says:

      Thank you for reiterating OR’s comments. I don’t have TV anymore and really thought O’Reilly did not like Trump.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Kay Elle says:

        O’Reilly is very careful about not giving the appearance of endorsing anyone. Has always made a point of saying he’s not a Republican, but an Independent voter. (He probably is) I’ve been seeing some subtle signs for the last several months that he understands and agrees with what’s been so clearly outlined here at TCH and is doing what he can to support Trump. Last night it struck me solidly that by his clear embrace of the description of Vulgarian, he was signalling that he is one of “us”.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Doodahdaze says:


          Liked by 2 people

          • TheTorch says:

            Kay I have watched what you have, but my conclusion is rather different.

            I think BOR is ultimately a GOPe shill, and would be perfectly comfortable with a Rubio or Jebby as the nominee. He may have friendly relations with Trump but based on previous interviews by BOR, one in which he was obnoxious to Trump, and his comments, regarding the big crowds for Trump are due to him being a celebrity gives the game away. He sees him as nothing more than a celebrity friend, chancing his luck.

            In my opinion he wants Rubio, like the rest of the GOPe and Fox News.

            Happy to be proved wrong, but I doubt it 🙂

            Liked by 1 person

            • TheTorch says:

              BTW – seeing George Will being called a liar and a hack was beautiful. That is exactly what he is.

              Also George Will was against Ronald Reagan before he was for him, people forget that, so the idea that he loves Reagan I find very doubtful.

              This is a comment from George Will in 1980, sound familiar:

              In a November 12, 1974 column appearing in the Washington Post on a potential 1976 challenge by Reagan to incumbent Establishment GOP President Gerald Ford, (titled “Ronald Reagan, the GOP and ’76”), Will wrote of Reagan:

              But Reagan is 63 and looks it. His hair is still remarkably free of gray. But around the mouth and neck he looks like an old man. He’s never demonstrated substantial national appeal, his hard core support today consists primarily of the kamikaze conservatives who thought the 1964 Goldwater campaign was jolly fun. And there’s a reason to doubt that Reagan is well suited to appeal to the electorate that just produced a Democratic landslide. If a Reagan third party would just lead the ‘Nixon was lynched’ crowd away from the Republican Party and into outer darkness where there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth, it might be at worst a mixed course for the Republican Party. It would cost the party some support, but it would make the party seem cleansed.

              YES that is George Will in 1974. Take note of this paragraph specifically:
              He’s never demonstrated substantial national appeal, his hard core support today consists primarily of the kamikaze conservatives who thought the 1964 Goldwater campaign was jolly fun.

              Very similar to what he now says about Donald Trump. George Will never learns. He is an establishment shill through and through.

              Liked by 2 people

            • Kay Elle says:

              Entitled to your opinion. Guess I’m not quite cynical enough for this crowd, but since I’ve seen a number of staunchly “Independent” and/or “Moderate” friends and family members – most of whom watch O’Reilly and discuss what they see and hear on The Factor – become recent Trump supporters, I do think you’re wrong. 🙂

              Liked by 2 people

          • Kay Elle says:

            Not at all 🙂


          • moogey says:

            LOL…..your response is sooooo restrained :0)


    • Dan Gerges says:

      Kay, an excellent set of observations! I totally missed the absence of Kelly’s weekly appearances.


      • Kay Elle says:

        I noticed almost immediately and I think it’s very telling. O’Reilly remains FNC’s top dog and while it would not be appropriate for him to denigrate her outright, the fact that he basically ignores her now says a lot.

        Liked by 2 people

        • O’Reilly was not on the Factor remainder of the week of that debate. He was said to be out of town. He admitted on air that he sits in on all background meetings so he would have known that MK was going after Trump. Appears to me that he wanted nothing to do with MK and Trump bashing and left town. Just my take.


    • amjean says:

      Perhaps O’Reilly sees the handwriting on the wall
      and if he plays his cards right, he will be interviewing
      President Donald Trump often. And Kelly won’t be.

      As a side note, I will be very disappointed if candidate
      or President Trump goes on Kelly’s show. Not because
      of what she did in the first debate; that was bad enough.
      However, she double downed, then triple downed.

      Liked by 3 people

  7. KBR says:

    Oh these talking heads also said that Trump will need to show he has qualifications since he has no governmental experience, no legal experience.”
    CEO of multinational business. CEO means Chief Executive Officer. The president is the Chief Executive Officer of the Executive Branch of US gov. Who else there has multinational CEO success?
    I wish Trump would point out that he is a Chief Executive running for a Chief Executive position! And not a lawyer running for, or running from, the legislative branch.
    As compared to state governor who
    A.fails to take care of his state responsibilities so he can fundraise and campaign,
    B.because he doesn’t have energy enough to do two things at once.
    C.Just not a multitasker, low energy,
    D. and has no international experience at all. 🌍
    If Bush dares to pipe up, maybe Trump could say “ask your mom.” Then, “No really Barbara is very knowledgeable about these things, and he does like to mention her opinions.” 😇

    Here Fiorino can step in citing her multinational experience if she dares…🙄

    As far as Carson goes, I hope he waits through Carson’s comments on finance, fiscal, etc. Trump can showcase his own vast experience by laying out some of his own brilliant ideas. The contrast would seal the deal on that subject.
    Once the TPP, his pro immigration ideas are put forward, “that sounds very much like a democrat position, Ben, you are supporting Obama’s plan there; Are you hoping to run with Hillary or against her?”

    The isolationism of Trump will backfire. It will just show why he is set apart from the rest as the very best candidate. Who wants to be in the pack when he can stand out from it?

    Liked by 4 people

    • KBR says:

      Forgot to say, to Rubio : “are you feeling okay? No no, you just look very very pale.”

      Liked by 1 person

    • 2alastor1 says:

      I think that “Executive” angle is good. I also wish he would use the word “Corruption” more — the entire discussion here is based in a sense that the system is thoroughly corrupt, and that someone who is not connected to monied interests is needed to fix it

      Liked by 1 person

    • joshua says:

      IMO, Trump has much more than having BEEN a CEO…..he has been and IS the CEO of a business where his PERSONAL MONEY AND FORTUNE are at stake, not just some Hewlett Packard shareholders or board members, not just a little STOCK interest…but where the whole success is on his back….he brings MUCH more to the USA as a CEO than merely an executive…he brings an executive where the LEATHER HITS THE PAVEMENT…where failure is the end of your personal deal….with NO GOLDEN PARACHUTE like Carlie took away 21 million bucks even when she was fired and failed….he is a CEO who has stated to the Nation that he will NOT TAKE COMPENSATION for doing the job.

      Man, that is WAY MORE THAN and experienced CEO…it is leadership by someone who has experienced victory by his OWN EFFORTS.

      Liked by 4 people

  8. Athena the Warrior says:

    Trump is so far ahead of the game in strategy and exposing frauds and those with phony agendas.

    I believe he dropped the little nuggets on Rubio and Carson to 1.) put them off of their game and 2.) expose the phony media who raced to protect them.

    Liked by 3 people

  9. KBR says:

    Yes. If they isolate him, he can say “sounds as if you all think alike. But that’s a good thing, I don’t run with the pack, I lead it.”

    Liked by 5 people

  10. Ace says:

    The promo photo posted here highlights media personalities posing as moderators. I thought the various campaigns had met to end these phony “debates”? It makes me wonder if anything’s real nowadays.


  11. TAS says:

    I have to post this….wish I could take credit for it but I can’t. Someone going by the name “Jedimaster Trump” posted it on BB news today. When I read it…it really did make me laugh. Hope all of you enjoy his take on tonight’s debate questions.

    Debate question 1:

    Mr Trump…why are you such a meanie?

    Debate question 2:

    Dr Carson, since you can’t talk policy, please take this hammer and demonstration how you hit your mother.

    Debate question 3:

    Mr Rubio, since you never answer honestly anyway, please give one of your well rehearsed little deflective mini speeches on any issue you would like.

    Mrs FiredRino, please interrupt more.

    Liked by 4 people

  12. I have Optimum in New Jersey I forgot what channel number is FOX on??


  13. Paul Killinger says:

    Your logical presumption of a Globalist vs Nationalist scenario could well work to Trump’s advantage. Once he recites a few trade deficit numbers and ties them to the millions of jobs we’ve lost domestically, they’ll have to change the subject!

    Liked by 1 person

  14. MVW says:

    Wow! The China policy release is genius and dovetails with TPP disaster. Jobs, jobs, jobs, and remember what happened to NAFTA and US companies. Pure blue collar talk, pure substance, and the GOPe narrative is vulnerable to evisceration. Further, where is Waldo, or where is Carson? No substance except he supports TPP, a copestone on the last 2 decades of bad trade deals and the fall of the US economy. Think TPP 6800 pages is a good deal negotiated by Team Obama? Just look at Iran and Bergdahl.

    Delivery is everything, Opening statement? Set the tone for the debate? Avoid hammer head resurrection reference.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. NJF says:

    It’s amazing to me that every show today is giving all kinds of analysis and opinion on every candidate except trump. So far I e only seen Varney ask, “well what about Trump?”


    His China trade proposal is outstanding!

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Donald Trump GMA INTERVIEW today before GOP Debate Donald Trump Interview

    Donald Trump GMA INTERVIEW 11-10-15 George Stephanopoulos, Good Morning America


    • anthonydog says:

      May I suggest those of us that tweet follow The Last Refuge @twitter and blanket the airwaves with our viewpoint in order to support TRUMP and challenge those who do not–Take control of the conversation and if you don’t have a Twitter account get one–because we need you in the Patriots Army


  17. KBR says:

    Yes well they are in the business of predicting. And The Donald is unpredictable.
    Apart from that, despite their cheatpolls, they know he’s leading. They probably know he has a Yuge crossover vote not shown in those polls.
    What can they say about Donald Trump without exposing themselves?

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Just looking at that Fox graphic, looks like Trump and Carson lighting diminished and all the rest very bright. Also looks like pics got bigger as you pan left and right. Hmmm


  19. Trump just released his US-China Trade Plan the DAY of the debate. If that doesn’t throw all of the other candidates off guard, I don’t know what else would! The other candidates not only have no clue as to how to handle China, they don’t know specifics about trade in the first place. They will arrive with their cue card Washington talking points and if this gets brought up won’t know how to go into specifics at all.

    Liked by 3 people

    • TheTorch says:

      Yes this was a smart move, to get this out there now, and I hope it proves beneficial tonight in the debate.

      There may not be as many people watching this one, due to the channel it is on, but it will still be good ratings.

      It is also important to note, that the next debate is not until mid December, well that is too close to Christmas, and people will be distracted by other things then, so this is the last big one this year, which will have enough people tuned in and interested to move anything in the polls, so make it count Donald! 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  20. Carolyn McD says:

    I’m very nervous about tonight. Many conservatives are pushing for Rubio – HARD.


  21. Rosies Seeing Red says:

    Wow. I’m watching FBN now. I don’t know who this woman is (I think someone from the WSJ), but she just said “Donald Trump’s plan would decimate the US economy.” And that it is the WSJ’s goal to show America this.

    I think we’ve been given fair warning about how things are going to go tonight.


    • TheTorch says:

      Yes, and I think Mr. Trump has plans to decimate the WSJ as well, so get the popcorn at the ready…


    • joshua says:

      WHICH economy would be decimated? the one proproped up with debt and a printing press making money? the ones with no full time jobs? the one with record numbers in poverty and food aid? the one inundated with illegal laborers flooding the country taking jobs for substandard pay and sending their money back to home country? the one whose legislative branch does nothing to protect the economy, or the taxpayers’ interests?

      WSJ….Murdoch….pure spin….


    • Notmeagain says:

      I have no illusions that he will get any fair opening for his plan, and will have to rely on interjecting quick zingers. And he hasn’t really been an interrupter like some people, yet instead of Trump being called polite, the others were assertive and really shone /s. Last debate was supposed to be about economics too, remember how much was discussed? But since the big effect of the debates so far is to show the media in a bad light, I’d take that.


    • NJF says:

      I saw this and thought WTF? If this is what they’re pushing we really are screwed.


  22. TheTorch says:

    #Trump#2016 ✈️ Wisconsin for #GOPDebate! Join #TeamTrump with Dan Scavino.

    Dan shows you the Trump plan on the tarmac, and keep an eye out for a few neat moments, police car is a hint 🙂 Also a short but neat mini tour of the plane with a few people already onboard.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. ssohara says:

    I am so fed up with the media. I am not a big time Trump supporter by any stretch, I prefer both Ted Cruz and Dr. Carson. But I definitely prefer Trump to Jeb! Jeb! should go away. So should Kasich. I hope the voters rebel against the GOPe. They sold us a bill of goods.


  24. TheTorch says:

    FOX Business is streaming the debate live tonight for free:

    All you need is a browser with flash player enabled. Which should be pretty much every browser!


  25. TwoLaine says:

    NOVEMBER 10 2015 –

    It has been a great week and I am excited to be in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for the fourth Republican Presidential Debate on Fox Business (8pm CST). I hope you will watch as I take center stage to answer questions about the crucial economic issues that we are facing as a nation and you as individuals are concerned about at home.

    I have released a Tax Plan that will create a dynamic economy and bring trillions of dollars back from overseas, but most importantly it is a plan that features tax cuts for most, especially the lower and middle classes.

    Today, I unveiled my plan to address the major trade imbalance with China currently plaguing our economy and costing American’s tens of thousands of jobs. I have a reputation as a master negotiator, a skill, which our politicians are lacking yet, our country desperately needs. We must make better trade deals. I have been very strong on the need for fair trade and the prevention of currency manipulation by countries like China, who are killing the United States on trade.

    I am proud to say I have built a tremendous company and created tens of thousands of jobs. I want to do this for our country.

    We are in serious trouble as a nation with a rapidly rising national deficit and no way to pay it off with all talk, no action politicians that continue to fail us.

    I hope you will tune in tonight as I address these issues and offer solutions that will transform our country into a thriving economic power that will once again be respected by the world. With your help we can Make America Great Again.

    We encourage you to follow along on social media and join the conversation in support of Mr. Trump:


    Donald J. Trump


  26. sam says:

    They are ask good questions at the undercard debate. Hope Trump did his homework, i know trump is a smart man but sometime he just doesn’t articulate and package the answer in a polish respond. So nervous for Team Trump.


  27. jello333 says:

    I’m late posting to this thread, so might not be seen by many, but I wanted to add one bullet point to your “Trump Advantages” list:

    He’s the only one (that I know of) who has CONNECTIONS to a vast array of business-people here and around the world. When he talks about “bringing companies back” to the US, he probably PERSONALLY KNOWS the CEOs of many of those companies he’s talking about. I would also assume that through his business dealings, he has developed many POLITICAL contacts as well… again, both here and around the world.


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