Why I Support Vaccination

vaccinations

Before measles vaccine, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. Each year in the United States about 450-500 people died because of measles, 48,000 were hospitalized, 7,000 had seizures, and about 1,000 suffered permanent brain damage or deafness. Today there are only about 60 cases a year reported in the United States, and most of these originate outside the country.

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/overview.html

measlesstats2http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/measles

“We spent 3 days in the hospital fearing we might lose our baby boy. He couldn’t drink or eat, so he was on an IV, and for a while he seemed to be wasting away. When he began to be able to drink again we got to take him home. But the doctors told us to expect the disease to continue to run its course, including high fever—which did spike as high as 106 degrees. We spent a week waking at all hours to stay on schedule with fever reducing medications and soothing him with damp wash cloths. Also, as instructed, we watched closely for signs of lethargy or non-responsiveness. If we’d seen that, we’d have gone back to the hospital immediately.”

Thankfully, the baby recovered fully.

Megan now knows that her son was exposed to measles during his 10-month check-up, when another mother brought her ill son into the pediatrician’s waiting room. An investigation found that the boy and his siblings had gotten measles overseas and brought it back to the United States. They had not been vaccinated.

“People who choose not to vaccinate their children actually make a choice for other children and put them at risk,” Megan explains. “At 10 months, my son was too young to get the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine. But when he was 12 months old, we got him the vaccine—even though he wasn’t susceptible to measles anymore. This way, he won’t suffer from mumps or rubella, or spread them to anyone else.”

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/unprotected-story.htm

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Probably two of the most notable vaccine successes are smallpox and infantile paralysis.  I had a smallpox vaccination in the 1950’s, and was one of the first children to receive the Salk vaccine against polio.

SmallPox (Variola Major)

The last recorded incidence of smallpox was 1978 in Great Britain.  Some estimates indicate that 20th century worldwide deaths from smallpox numbered more than 300 million.

Infantile Paralysis (Poliomyelitis)

incidence-decline-of-polio-in-USA-Burnet-White

 Landmark vaccination and surveillance efforts along with subsequent national mass Salk and Sabin vaccination programs – with CDC epidemiologists continuing to administer vaccine and conduct disease surveillance — eradicated polio in the U.S. by 1979. Now, we are on the verge of worldwide eradication of this dreaded disease. In the U.S. meanwhile, continued protection from polio depends on continuing the impressive and historically high rate of polio vaccination. People at greatest risk include those who never had polio vaccine, or didn’t receive all the recommended doses, as well as those traveling to areas with polio cases. Vaccination will be necessary for full protection as long as polio remains in the world.

http://www.cdc.gov/24-7/protectingpeople/polio/us_polio_free.html

More than 50 years ago, polio held U.S. families in a grip of terror. Especially during the summertime, when polio seemed most likely to circulate, parents feared they would hear in the news or from neighbors that someone in the community had polio. “People tried to keep their children safe from the potentially paralyzing disease by keeping them out of public places such as pools, parks, and theaters,” explains Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

The nation came together like never before in an effort to create a vaccine to protect children from polio. Millions of Americans raised funds in their communities for research. Much of the funding came through the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (presently the March of Dimes Foundation), founded in 1938 by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, himself paralyzed by polio in the prime of his life. Before the March of Dimes drew national attention to the search for a polio vaccine, two attempts to develop a polio vaccine had failed—neither produced immunity and some deaths were blamed on one of the vaccines.

In 1952, Jonas Salk and his team at the University of Pittsburgh created the first effective polio vaccine. By 1954, it was time to test the Salk vaccine widely. Thomas Francis Jr. at the University of Michigan led the nationwide test, the scale of which had never been seen before. More than 1.8 million school children across the United States participated. Thousands of health care professionals and other volunteers administered the vaccine and collected results.

I was one of the children in the nationwide test, and received the “real” vaccine!

Everyone had the same goal: victory over polio. In 1955 the results were proclaimed: the Salk vaccine was “safe, effective, and potent!”

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/unprotected-story.htm

 

childinlegbraces1937_1950Polio1951_1966PolioMore stats:  http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html

As one would expect, diseases such as polio are still rife in Africa and other parts of the Third World. But the United States and Great Britain deserve badges of shame for the resurgence of measles and whooping cough, which are almost entirely due to the ignorance and fear spread by the anti-vaccine movements in those countries.

One disturbing trend related to polio, which should have been eradicated globally decades ago, is its presence in Nigeria and Pakistan. These outbreaks are closely related to campaigns of violence directed at vaccine workers and other healthcare staff. Reports of the violence are shown on the updated CFR map for the first time.

According to a research team at Boston Children’s Hospital, suspicion of the polio vaccine in Nigeria dates back to 2003, when rumors spread that “the vaccine was for sterilizing children for birth control and contained HIV.” More recently, vaccination drives have been halted by the Boko Haram insurgency. Last year, nine women working on a polio vaccination campaign were killed by gunmen.

In Pakistan, the Boston researchers report, Taliban commanders have banned polio vaccines in regions under their control. Militants are predisposed to suspect vaccination campaigns because the U.S. used a polio vaccination drive as cover for the search for Osama bin Laden in 2011. Healthcare workers “feared the deception would increase the danger to polio workers,” as indeed it has.

The toll has been significant. Pakistan’s 94 polio cases lead the world this year.

Other than the Third World, measles outbreaks are concentrated in Great Britain and the wealthy coastal zones of the U.S., where anti-vaccination ignorance is pronounced among affluent and ostensibly educated populations.  Whooping cough, or pertussis, is concentrated in the U.S., thanks largely to anti-vaccination ignorance.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-an-updated-map-20141023-column.html

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There are objections to the use of vaccines.  I’ll cover them briefly here, although I do not believe that the objections are significant enough to rule out vaccination of our children.

There is a tangential connection between some vaccines and abortion. The Hepatitis A vaccine, the MMR vaccine, and the chicken pox vaccine all contain viruses (weakened or inactivated) that were grown in human cells. A virus must be given a medium in which to propagate. Many vaccines use viruses that can propagate in several kinds of mammal cells, but some viruses are so specific that they can only propagate in human cells. The viruses used in the above-listed vaccines are that specific. Thus, they must be grown in human cells.

Where do the vaccine companies get the cells for these vaccines? They get them from companies like Coriell Cell Repositories, 403 Haddon Avenu, Camden, New Jersey 08103, 800-752-3805. This company has many cell lines, which are cultures of self-perpetuating cells. Each culture of cells is continually reproducing, making more cells. Those cells are sold to researchers, drug companies, and other medical technology firms. The specific cell lines used in vaccines are the MRC-5 and WI-38 cell lines, and they have been supplying medical research of all types for more than 35 years. Where do these cell lines come from? That’s where the grain of truth in this lie comes from. Both of these cell lines were cultured from cells taken from two abortions, one (MRC-5) that was performed in September,1966 and one (WI-38) that was performed in July, 1962.

Now that you have learned the facts, we can discuss the moral issues involved. Is it immoral to use these cell lines to make vaccines? The answer is definitely not. You might think that the cell lines are somehow “tainted” because they come from abortions; however, think about it for a moment. Abortion is murder. A person who claims to be a physician purposefully kills an innocent, unprotected person. That is evil, and there is no doubt about it. However, let’s consider another murder, shall we? Let’s suppose one of your loved ones was shot in a robbery attempt. You rush your loved one to the hospital, but it is too late. Your loved one dies. This is another murder, and it is just as evil.

Suppose that the doctors rush in and tell you that there is a young boy in the next room who needs a heart immediately, or he will die. The doctors have analyzed your loved one’s blood and found that your loved one is a perfect match for the dying boy. Would you donate your loved one’s heart to the boy? I certainly would. It would be a tragedy that my loved one was murdered, but at least this would be a “silver lining” in that dark cloud. At least my loved one’s death would mean that a young boy could live.

The cells that were taken from the two aborted babies more than 35 years ago are much like my loved one’s heart. Two innocent babies were killed. However, they were able to donate something that has been used not only to make vaccines, but in many medical research projects over the years. Thus, these cells have been saving millions of lives for almost two generations! Although the babies were clearly murdered, the fact that their cells have been saving lives is at least a silver lining in the dark cloud of their tragic murder.

<snip>

Interestingly enough, a June 9, 2005 statement from the Pontifical Academy for Life (the Vatican’s official voice in the area of abortion/right-to-life) comes to essentially the same conclusion. Even though some organizations have mischaracterized the document as condemning the use of such vaccines, the document, in fact, says quite the opposite. It says that when an alternative vaccine which has no connection whatsoever to abortion is available, parents should use it. There is no question that this is the moral thing to do. In addition, when there is no alternative available, parents should object by demonstration, etc. so as to force manufactures to come up with an alternative.

<snip>

Because some organizations have tried to mischaracterize this statement, the Catholic News Service (CNS) produced an article that quotes Msgr. Jacques Suaudeau, a medical doctor and official at the Pontifical Academy for Life, as saying, “If the health of the child or of the whole population [is at risk], the parents should accept having their kid be vaccinated if there is no alternative.”  Because some organizations clearly do not like the Roman Catholic church officially saying that the use of these vaccines is morally acceptable, they have asked the Pontifical Academy for Life to change its statement. However, CNS reports that Msgr. Jacques Suaudeau said the document “could not be changed” because it accurately reflected church teaching. Despite what you might read, then, even the Vatican supports the use of vaccines that have a tangential relationship to abortion, as long as no alternative vaccines are available.

http://www.drwile.com/lnkpages/render.asp?vac_abortion

http://www.immunize.org/concerns/vaticandocument.htm

page divider, blue designVaccines and Autism

There are, of course, those who believe that vaccinations are responsible for autism.  I’ll leave a couple of links here, although I have found that it is impossible to convince those who are true believers in the causation between vaccines and autism:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/antigens.html

http://www.iom.edu/reports/2004/immunization-safety-review-vaccines-and-autism.aspx

 

Quarantinemulti

 

 

 

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234 Responses to Why I Support Vaccination

  1. Apollo says:

    AMEN!!

    Stella–thank you! It is great to see this on the Treehouse.

    Liked by 7 people

  2. MouseTheLuckyDog says:

    This sums it up:

    Like

  3. Egghead says:

    Hi Stella, I believe that I had some reasonable points that you are censoring. That makes YOU as intolerant as anyone else who is intolerant. I used polite language, made valid points, and cited mainstream sources. It is corruption pure and simple that has put people away from vaccines, just as it is corruption that caused the making of vaccines to be moved to countries without stringent safeguards. I do give a ‘rat’s ass’ as you so eloquently put it if MY teen daughter is forced to take a vaccine that can gravely harm or kill her so that some politician can give medical companies a high ROI for their campaign contributions. If you REALLY cared about people, then you would give a ‘rat’s ass’ too instead of PRETENDING that valid criticisms about vaccines are an attack on vaccines instead of a necessary questioning of the IMPLEMENTATION of vaccines in modern society. Blind acceptance of any idea – including vaccines – is an open invitation to despotism. When you support despotism – including short-circuiting open debate, you will be called before GOD at the end of your life to explain yourself.

    Like

    • Be Ge says:

      But that is all leftyism is about anyway. Pro-animalrights (let rabid paryah dogs run around and bite people), pro-choice (abort’em’all_if_uncomfy_a_bit), anti-industrialism (limit technology / back to the caves) — that is all as anti-human as the mainstream soviet/chinese communism of the past century (which, may I remind, has killed more people, than all recent wars altogether). The ultimate goal (if any) behind this is unknown to me, but it seems to be (again, if there is such a thing) mass depopulation of the planet and a greek-style original demoratEEyeh (with an accent on EE as they do it in Greece / Cyprus). That is to say, each democrat has 2-3-4 slaves who do all the work while the democrat can philosophize about democrateeya, paderastia, paedophilia, ephoebophilia (yep, a lot of us men are just that — like blondes and girls somewhere in between the age of consent and 21-25), atoms, kosmos, physica, geometria, politica, and all of these other great greek (ancient Greek, that is) democratic inventions — all while drinking some good erythros xeros (red dry) diluted with sweet-tasting cold water. The slave population, apparently, is to be recruited from the “free” / barbarian population of the earth (most survivers of the commie-bourne apocalypse will be the barbarians) — living in caves and frying organic grasshoppers on fires from dried organic dong.

      Like

    • Daniel says:

      I find that to be highly inconsistent. Lefties are generally pro-government and pro-establishment. They are anti-business/corporation so maybe not so far off.

      Like

  4. cg says:

    I do not support dubious vaccines

    Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      What is a “dubious” vaccine? And did you spend the time to actually read what I wrote? It took more than three hours to assemble the information I presented.

      Liked by 4 people

      • lovemygirl says:

        Thanks for your effort. I’m afraid that with the porous borders more and more “extinct” diseases (in the US) will re-emerge. It also reminds me that I was told that there was a vaccine that many have had but a booster is now recommended because the original may not still protect… I have to ask my doc next time I’m in since my memory isn’t quite working well.

        Liked by 5 people

      • justfactsplz says:

        You did a great job with this article and the visual aids too, Stella. I am a firm believer in vaccines. If my brother had lived one more year until the vaccine came out he would not have died with whooping cough. I was in the first round of polio vaccines when it was no longer a test. I received a small pox vaccine when I was a child and had to receive another one when I was seventeen and we moved to Costa Rica for the summer. I remember when I was a child my Dad having to get a ton of vaccines all at once before he left to work in Saudi Arabia. He was sick and had high fevers. Vaccines are worth taking. Their benefits far outweigh possible side effects. Great article and a must read for everyone. With our borders so open these diseases could resurface if we are not diligent about vaccinations.

        Liked by 3 people

    • ZurichMike says:

      I do not support drive-by posts that pretend to take the moral high ground but offer nothing to the discussion: no facts, no law, no reasoning, no common sense.

      Epic fail, honey.

      Liked by 3 people

  5. Chip Bennett says:

    It’s sad that this post even has to be made. Vaccinate your children. The end.

    That said: I won’t take a flu vaccine. I don’t believe in their efficacy.

    Also:

    Now that you have learned the facts, we can discuss the moral issues involved. Is it immoral to use these cell lines to make vaccines? The answer is definitely not. You might think that the cell lines are somehow “tainted” because they come from abortions; however, think about it for a moment. Abortion is murder. A person who claims to be a physician purposefully kills an innocent, unprotected person. That is evil, and there is no doubt about it. However, let’s consider another murder, shall we? Let’s suppose one of your loved ones was shot in a robbery attempt. You rush your loved one to the hospital, but it is too late. Your loved one dies. This is another murder, and it is just as evil…

    This is moral-equivalence nonsense that only serves to justify abortion.

    Like

    • stella says:

      Did you read the letter and paper from the Vatican? I don’t believe it is moral equivalence, since it isn’t a continuing practice in the sense that only two cell lines have ever been used, and those were established in the 1960’s. No additional fetal tissue has been used. Reminds me of the decision made during the Bush administration regarding fetal stem cells.

      Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      I get the flu shot yearly — even it’s not 100% effective, I think the annual “jolt” to my immune system ultimately makes it stronger.

      Liked by 3 people

      • I can assure you that after almost dying from flu complications last year – and I mean that literally – I will never NOT take the flu vaccine again. My husband and I both ended up in the hospital and then ICU over the Christmas holidays last year. I was in the hospital from December 20 – January 10 and, after 8 days, was told it was going to be “day to day” – Drs. didn’t know if I was going to make it. I had bilateral pneumonia and couldn’t breathe without oxygen and antibiotics weren’t touching it. My husband ended up in kidney failure and had a BP reading of 300/200 when he arrived at the hospital by ambulance. He was admitted directly to ICU. People in Houston were dying daily from flu complications. It was very scary.

        I have gotten them in the past but have been kind of lackadaisical about it since I’ve never had the flu and so wasn’t regular in getting them. No more.

        Liked by 2 people

        • ZurichMike says:

          May I also suggest a room humidifier / air-cleaner at least for the bedroom. Heated rooms in winter dry out mucous membranes and allow viruses to creep into our systems. Ventilate the house frequently — viruses cannot tolerate cold for too long. Wash your hands. Clean door handles, etc. You know the drill, I’m sure. Hope you stay flu-free!

          Liked by 1 person

        • Last year’s was a bad one. I got the shot, but I caught it from a vaccine avoider friend (GRRRRR). My only solace was that the severity was much lessened from a normal case – like hers.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I’ve heard that even if you get the flu the vaccine lessens its severity.

            Liked by 2 people

            • scaretactics says:

              I remember when your family was sick over Christmas last year. Glad you are all better.

              So thankful for vaccines and for the pharmaceutical companies who make them.

              If some parent is not vaccinating their child, for one reason or another, it is because they have never seen the DISEASE. Fortunately those diseases are rare here in the US …because of vaccines!

              Liked by 3 people

              • scaretactics says:

                Good advice Zurich Mike. I would also get a UV sanitizer to sanitize such items as cell phones and computer keyboards. I use one in my cleaning business to sanitize doorknobs and light switches, plus electronics. And NEVER use a water fountain. Lots of germs there … more than a toilet seat, believe it or not. Make sure you wash your kitchen sink well. UV sanitizers are at Amazon for around $100.

                Like

              • PBR says:

                Very good point, scaretactics.

                Like

  6. mcevans53 says:

    Sharyl Atkisson CBS employee until 2014 pushed the vaccine/autism many years ago which did much to harm instead of help. I know because my daughter-in-law was pregnant at the time and listened to her reports on CBS and took it to heart–I told her I understood her concerns but that these childhood diseases (I became extremely ill with the measles when I was 5)are very real and that her generation and previous ones did not have to suffer like we did because of the vaccines. That nothing is 100% for sure in this life but I thought my grandchild should be vaccinated. She did end up choosing this course. Thank you for this article–I went to school with kids who had polio–we used to see hem in leg braces and ask our parents about it.

    Liked by 3 people

    • stella says:

      Me too, mcevans53 re going to school with kids who had polio. My nephew almost lost his eyesight as a result of measles complications (encephalitis). As it was, it was severely impaired, and he had lens implants in his 40’s.

      ADD: He was only 4 years younger than I am.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Rachelle says:

      Same here. I remember kids in braces from polio. I remember the fear. And I also remember reading a Life Magazine article about Salk’s new discovery of the polio vaccine and thinking, “Thank God . . . and Jonas Salk.”

      Liked by 3 people

      • chuckles49 says:

        My older bother, now deceased, was one of the first to receive the Salk’s vaccine, and developed a case of polio not long afterwards. He had to have numerous surgeries to lengthen his affected leg while growing up, and just prior to his death he was diagnosed with post polio syndrome.

        I think vaccines can be helpful, but depending upon how their produced and administered, they can also be harmful. I avoid place like Walgreens and Walmart during flu season because they turn their stores into doctors offices with hundreds of people walking around sniffling and sneezing after having their inoculations. I find that to be irresponsible as well as inconsiderate.

        Like

  7. peachteachr says:

    I have an intensely personal view of vaccines as well as a historical view. In family lore, there is always the story of my 4 great uncles who died in the influenza epidemic of 1919. Likewise, my mother’s baby sister was being treated for rabies and could not receive the diphtheria vaccine. She died of diphtheria at 3.
    My daughter had a convulsion and viral encephalitis after her first vaccines. After the crisis, when we knew that our beautiful 6 week old daughter would not be brain damaged, or physically or mentally disabled, her doctor and I decided that it was most likely the pertussis that had caused the reaction. After that, she received ALL of her vaccinations minus the pertussis. She’s alive and healthy 38 years later. To God be the glory.
    I believe that I made an educated choice, with a doctor’s participation. I am amazed at the people who think that an entertainment employee is more informed about a sensitive issue than we are if we all read the same facts.

    Liked by 2 people

    • peachteachr says:

      I, too, stood in line for those polio shots in the 50’s. It went late into the night as the local doctors in rural Georgia got those vaccines. There was an air of fear and talk of iron lungs.

      Liked by 2 people

    • stella says:

      There are always risks, no matter the medical procedure, and you made your decision in a logical way; the happy result is a healthy daughter!

      My mother told me that everyone in their community had the influenza in 1918-19, and that we were lucky that nobody in her family died. Almost every family lost at least one person.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Think if you had chosen no more vaccines – she (and any of her future children) would have been protected because most of the children around her were immunized. It’s NOT just for the one being immunized. I am glad she is fine.

      Like

      • peachteachr says:

        Oh, Shoulda, that was my constant prayer…that every other person in her universe had the pertussis vaccine. It was the best for her and she was always up to date on her vaccines in every way but for that one.

        Like

    • Good on you, peachteachr – what a smart and logical response! And what a great doctor. Our pediatrician was like that – trusting his intuition and knowing medicine works despite its imperfections.

      Like

      • peachteachr says:

        Thank you, Tyra. I believe she also had the Great Physician on her side.
        What I don’t understand is why anyone would go to Jenny McCarthy for advice on vaccines or anything. I think that Stella mentioned Katie Couric as a spokesperson in this arena. She has no expertise either. BTW, my daughter is a great adult, giving and loving and fair to all. God’s not finished with her yet. 🙂

        Like

  8. Daniel says:

    Vaccination as an idea is a great one. But there is a problem that isn’t addressed in this pro-vaccine opinion. The drugs makers and their motives along with the government and its motives. I don’t trust either based on their histories. Do you? If so, why?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Rachelle says:

      Worry less about motives and more about results.

      Like

      • Daniel says:

        I do worry about the results. I had a normal, healthy son who suddenly shifted over to being allergic to things he wasn’t and is now on the autism spectrum. My other two sons both have extremely high IQs as do (did?) I and my father as well. It kind of runs in the family. All of my sons have been vaccinated per government requirements. You could say “two out of three.” But I don’t count my sons in numbers as a collective. Each of them are individual people. Some of the differences between the first two and the last one though? They increased the recommended/required vaccinations for children whose immune systems aren’t developed enough to handle them.

        Fact: Vaccination is a function of triggering the immune system. If the immune system of a small child isn’t capable of handling a vaccination, why are vaccinations being recommended? Vaccinations are not “medicine.” They are (supposedly) neutralized threats from which the body’s immune system learns to handle.

        And worse than that? With all of the antibiotics in much of the commercial meat and dairy out there, would it surprise anyone that most people are running around with suppressed immune systems because of all the antiiotics we have swimming in our bodies? We know already that over-use of antibiotics lead to super-bugs (and there are currently some which cannot be treated at all).

        I believe in medical science. I don’t believe in the medical industry insomuch that it has “our” interests at heart.

        Liked by 1 person

        • ZurichMike says:

          My goodness, your grasp of medicine is poor at best. On what basis to you make the assertion “if the immune system of a small child isn’t capable of handling a vaccination . . .”

          The fact that hundreds of millions of children have received vaccinations around the world with infinitesimally small side effects suggest rather strongly why vaccines are recommended.

          Liked by 1 person

          • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

            I am not an anti-vaccine ideologue. In fact, I just got updated on my vaccinations. That said, I have personally experienced problems with vaccinations. When my daughter was 2 months old she was vaccinated (someone can remind me what is the usual vaccines for that age group). Within an hour she was showing fever and had a rash from head to foot. She cried for 24 hours straight except while nursing. We took her back to the doctor and he DENIED that the vaccination had anything to do with her sudden onset of symptoms. Thank God she recovered, although we noticed a slight hearing deficiency afterwards. Because of the doctor’s attitude, it put me off vaccines for a long time. It wasn’t until my kids were older that I got them fully vaccinated. They had no problems. I think it is important to talk to doctors who are not ideologues. My granddaughter’s pediatrician was calm enough to discuss rationally with her mother that a child who is not in daycare, who does not have other children who are in a public setting (i.e. school) can safely put off vaccinating until the child is a little older and they are no longer receiving immunity from their mother’s milk.

            Additionally, the flu vaccine is a hit or miss proposition. My elderly mother swears by them. She came down with the flu about five years ago (from which she recovered fully) and felt it was important to begin getting the vaccine. Three years into her flu vaccine journey she came down with “a bad cold” that seemed to go on and on. She eventually recovered, or so she thought. A small, persistent cough kept on. She got weaker and weaker, until my sister forced her to go to the hospital emergency room one day when she couldn’t get a breath. She was within an hour or so of death because of pneumonia. She was in ICU for almost a week. Pneumonia is often listed as cause of death for people who actually have the flu. They don’t die from the flu, but from the pneumonia that developed from it. Now my mom gets an anti-pneumonia vaccine, too. Go figure.

            Third, my son, who is in the military (and currently deployed to the Middle East so any prayers are appreciated) received a flu vaccine and came down with Bell’s Palsy within a week of it. This is also associated with the flu vaccine.

            It seems nothing is easy or clear cut in this world. I try to pray and ask the Lord for the way to go on these matters. And it is also helpful to pray Psalm 91, so powerful and comforting.

            Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              My daughter had Bell’s Palsy, but it had nothing to do with a flu vaccine.

              ADD: It is caused by inflammation of one of the facial nerves (fifth? seventh), most likely from a virus.

              Like

              • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

                My son is a combat medic. He agreed that the vaccine could’ve had something to do with the onset of the palsy, based on his knowledge and research, as well as a correlation with some type of virus. They just don’t know yet. Again, I am trying to walk a middle line here. I seek the truth, and try not to be ideological. Vaccines do a great deal of good, but they are also sometimes problematic.

                Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      Since I am unable to create my own vaccines, I guess I will rely on the wisdom of my doctor and/or hospital. May not be perfect, but vaccination is far preferable to the alternative.

      Liked by 3 people

    • ZurichMike says:

      Pharmaceutical companies are not charities. Their motive is selling a product that people want — pain killers, vaccines, medicines for a host of illnesses. What is the issue? Is that any different from manufacturers of food, clothing, and shelter?

      Please cite some relevant facts — otherwise you are just making sweeping generalizations and innuendo for absolutely no purpose. Why don’t you trust them? Give an example. But be sure to give the full context, and not just the context that proves your rather lame assumption.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Apollo says:

        Even more, pharmaceutical companies generally have razor-thin margins on vaccines. It’s not on the whole actually a very big profit center–even the world’s largest vaccine manufacturer, Sanofi, derives only about 12% of its revenue (and even less of its profits) from vaccines.

        It’s as close to altruism as you’re likely to find in the corporate world.

        Liked by 1 person

    • I do trust American pharma, and have friends and acquaintances there. They would rat out a bad motive or cover-up without question. Can’t speak for everybody there, but you can generally trust the scientists, IMO.

      Like

  9. Rachelle says:

    Great post! Vaccinations save lives. Recently somewhere I saw a post on a science blog that showed that progressives were much more likely to oppose vaccination than conservatives. Somehow that doesn’t surprise me. Judging by the way they murder polio vaccination teams in Pakistan the Taliban aren’t very enthusiastic about prevention either.

    Also here of all places a bit of honesty:
    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/

    Like

  10. Murse says:

    I had whooping cough at age 14. And it is a nasty little bug. There is no relief from coughing until it runs its course.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Sten says:

    My complaint with vaccines is the large number at one time that are administered simultaneously. I had both of my children given all of their vaccines, just over an extended timeframe. Yes, that meant more injections, and more angst and tears. Yes, it cost me more in co-pays and time off for office visits. But if my adult body can have a toxic reaction to any number of small volumes of substances, how on earth can a body under 40lbs not have any reaction to introducing 3 to xx vaccines at the same time? No, I have no science to back me, only a feeling by watching how nature works. Ever had a plant brown up and die from over application of natural fertilizers? I will let my observation of nature and my over-protective parental feelings overrule the AMA and NEJOM any day.

    Liked by 2 people

    • ZurichMike says:

      Given the overwhelming safety and efficacy of pharmaceutical products of all kinds, and the extreme regulation there is for development, testing, and bringing to market, can you please come up with some facts rather than feelings?

      Liked by 1 person

      • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

        As someone who previously worked for a small pharmaceutical company I can assure you that lobbying has a tremendous amount of influence on what and when and how much testing some products get before approval. It is hardly a secret within the industry. Also, if you happen to be bored on any given day, go ahead and read the insert to just about any script in your medicine cabinet. You will see just how much testing is NOT done on pregnant, older, ill with other things, etc., patients. Also, my husband (who happened to work for years for a major pharmaceutical company) was taught that 80% of patients will have a unique reaction to prescription drugs; iow, they will need to have the dosage adjusted, script changed, and that often the effects are not what was projected. There is a reason why prescription drugs are not over-the-counter.

        I am not saying that, for the most part, our system is unsafe. I am saying that we all need to educate ourselves on these matters so we can make informed decisions. We do not live in an era where we can just trust the government and/or big corporations.

        Liked by 4 people

        • ZurichMike says:

          It is forbidden or strictly regulated by law and industry codes of practice to test pharmaceutical products on the elderly, pregnant women, or those who are ill with other diseases, to say nothing of the sheer difficulty in finding such people willing to be clinical patients even if it were allowed. In addition, the complexity of variables with people who are already ill with something else (and may be taking other meds) would be impossible to control in a clinical setting. So I am not sure what you point is about that. The drug is tested under controlled conditions and must demonstrate that it is effective for the indication on the label. Additionally, the dosage rates for products depends on age, weight, etc. So, yes, it will have to be adjusted for each patient. Again, I am not sure what your point it.

          Liked by 1 person

          • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

            Well, I was mainly speaking about the lobbying aspect of the pharmaceutical industry, but testing is often done within a very limited framework. Yes, this is due to the high cost of R&D. I am not knocking the drug industry as a whole. I am saying we need to be realistic about the limits of testing, especially with the newer vaccines and drugs. And, although testing pregnant and elderly people is regulated, it is nevertheless done on a regular basis. After all, drugs especially for those who are pregnant or dealing with an age-related illness are being developed as I write. That said, many drugs are not tested with pregnant, lactating, already ill or elderly people, yet they are still prescribed drugs because there are no known side effects, etc. Also, there are many drugs (such as prescription of antibiotics) for which there are side effects (c-diff being a big one) that you aren’t warned about unless you read the fine print. I have a close relative who has been dealing with c-diff for over a year now…all because she was over prescribed antibiotics for tonsillitis. There were other options, but they weren’t discussed with her. Again, I am suggesting we need not be for one side or the other, but walk an informed middle ground.

            Liked by 2 people

            • I am always on the lookout for pharmaceutical side effects, and I would say that 80 percent figure is good. Happily, I’ve almost never had to discontinue a drug. Like any other tool, one simply has to learn how to operate them. If it doesn’t work or causes problems , stop using it.

              Like

      • chuckles49 says:

        Are you serious? Every pharmaceutical commercial you see now must relate possible side effects, and for the most part, they sound worse than the condition they supposed to treat. Do you honestly call that safety and efficacy? Why are there so many recalls if these pharmaceuticals are so closely regulated for safety? Big Pharma is about money, not altruism.

        Like

        • ZurichMike says:

          You are confusing efficacy (does the product do what it is intended to do), safety (does the product do what it is supposed to do without causing harm), quality (product’s chemical composition), and turning a profit (corporate motivation). Pharma companies are obligated by law to report as a possible side effect (even if there is NO causal relationship) any adverse event (side effects included) that have been reported within the parameters of taking the product. That long list of “May cause headaches, nausea, . . . ” — who’s to say that the person wouldn’t have had a headache or been nauseated to begin with? It’s fairly likely that if you are ill, you are going to have a headache of some kind. If you have a headache at the time you are taking the product, and report it, then it must be listed as a possible side effect. This has been the case for years.

          Pharma companies are not charities. About 95% of advances in pharmaceutical products comes from the US because of an environment that encourages innovation, protects intellectual property, and supports market conditions to turn a profit. It is no different that manufacturers of food, clothing, shelter, automobiles, planes, or any other thing that is now essential in the modern world. Looking forward to your expose on Big Auto, Big Corn, Big Dairy, Big Technology.

          In the meantime, if you are that disgusted with the pharma industry, then by all means refuse all medicine in the future.

          Like

          • chuckles49 says:

            I do refuse most prescription medications ZM. They’re overpriced, their effectiveness is questionable, and there are so many side effects possible, it’s absolutely frightening! I prefer a nice herbal solution if at all possible.

            Like

            • ZurichMike says:

              On what basis do you make the claim that they are overpriced? What is the price of treating the disease and its consequences versus the cost of a vaccine or antibiotic? On what basis do you make the claim that “most” prescription meds have questionable effectiveness? The fact that so many diseases have been conquered, so many conditions controlled, through prescription medicine, proves your assumption/conclusion utterly flawed/wrong.

              Good luck with the herbal remedies — I am sure there is nothing like a cup of chamomile tea when you have cancer, or a ruptured disc, or a massive infection. But the issue here is vaccines in particular — please make that choice if you will, but also don’t come crying to me or the pharma industry when you or your loved ones are mowed down by measles, whooping cough, tetanus, or polio.

              Like

    • stella says:

      As a parent, you have the right and responsibility to have your children vaccinated as you see fit. Space them out if you believe that is best for your family. Discuss it with your doctor, and work out a plan.

      Like

  12. I feel NOT vaccinating is irresponsible to not only your own children, but to others, including pregnant women, fetuses, and newborns. Many of these diseases can cause severe pregnancy complications/birth defects and infect babies before they are vaccinated.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Daniel says:

      I agree. I do not say don’t vaccinate. But I have some problems with the way the “question” is being handled. Just as in the case of global warming and other crusades, people who ask questions and seek further study lose their careers. That’s not scientific and certainly not medical science.

      When you consider how long it took to bring out full recognition and understanding at all levels that tobacco is bad and causes cancer you might begin to appreciate how other factors and interests play a role counter to health and well-being of populations.

      And though I will not consume tobacco and will recommend against it to everyone, I do not advocate banning it nor silencing anyone who thinks tobacco is “okay!” It is when people asking questions get silenced, we should all take some notice.

      Like

      • ZurichMike says:

        Who is getting silenced? We have people posting nonsense that they themselves is based on feelings, not facts. Should we use their feelings to silence the lengthy public success story of vaccines? If the anti-vaccine crowd can’t come up with facts, context, and proper argumentation, they they deserve to be challenged.

        Like

    • chuckles49 says:

      Now if we can only convince the millions of illegals who have singlehandedly re-introduced these practically extinct diseases back into our population..

      Like

  13. Sharon says:

    Everybody has a personal opinion and a personal experience with vaccines.

    It still one of the remaining and dwindling areas of liberty in this former republic; we still get to decide what our opinion is and whether we want to get one or many.

    So exercise your liberty to get or not get vaccinated. And, consistent with personal liberty, don’t expect those of us who did get vaccinated to pay for your care when you get TB or your infant gets life-threatening measles or your teen gets polio.

    If we returned to the practice of everybody paying out of their own pocket for the services and products they choose to receive, life would be a whole lot easier. That’s my opinion.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Daniel says:

      When you see government get involved, it’s a problem. Some states require vaccination by law. And some parents lose their children over the decision:

      http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2013/04/marion_county_parents_lose_lat.html

      So, your opinion is based on the notion that there’s some choice and no force involved. There IS force involved and less choice than you realize. More and more often, when refusal of medical recommendations occurs, government begins stepping in and people with guns come knocking.

      Liked by 2 people

    • hoosiergranny says:

      Sharon,

      The really frightening part to me is that the government has now interfered in my Dr/patient relationship and so my liberty to get the expert input I need to make that decision.

      Due to ObamaCare changes, I now cannot keep my Dr. When discussing risk/benefits, that is the time I need a Dr. that I would trust to help me navigate the whole vaccine question. Someone who knows my complex medical history and doesn’t just blow me off thinking I’m some kind of nut. Just another consequence of the socialization of our medical system.

      Like

    • chuckles49 says:

      First off, I Like you, and I I agree with you on most things Sharon. With that being said, I don’t like your assumption that anyone who doesn’t choose to vaccinate must be a beggar, and will have to rely on your tax dollars for their care should they become ill. I pay my own freight, and I don’t live off the public dole.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. georgiafl says:

    Vaccines made in China?

    When infants and dogs have died from Chinese made foods?
    When Chines made glass oven ware exploded in the oven?

    I don’t trust a country that does not value human life – where abortion is mandatory and whole villages die of cancer caused by pollution from mining rare and toxic earths, so China can market these elements for the ‘green’ business industry.

    Is there an American or European maker of vaccines?

    Liked by 1 person

    • georgiafl says:

      Disclaimer: I believe in vaccines – I was vaccinated and so were my children and grandchildren. No one had any problems with their vaccines.

      I just don’t trust Chinese products to be safe.

      Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      This may make you feel a little better:

      http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/0508_vac_china.htm

      For example, Rotarix, the rotavirus vaccine that was approved in April 2008 by the FDA, is manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium.

      Where Are Other Vaccines Made?

      ActHIB (Hib) – Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
      Adacel (Tdap) – Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
      Boostrix (Tdap) – GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium and Wavre, Belgium
      Daptacel (DTaP) – Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
      Energix-B (Hepatitis B) – GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
      FluMist (Influenza) – MedImmune Vaccines, Inc. in Gaithersburg, Maryland and Wyeth in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
      Fluzone (Influenza) – Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
      Gardasil (HPV) – Merck &amp; Co., Inc., West Point, PA.
      Havrix (Hepatitis A) – GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
      Infanrix (DTaP) – GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, but manufactured by Chiron-Behring GmbH &amp; Co. in Marburg, Germany
      IPOL (IPV) – Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
      Menactra (Meningococcal) – Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
      Pediarix (DTap, IPV, Hepatitis B) – GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
      PedvaxHIB (Hib) – Merck &amp; Co., Inc., in West Point, Pennsylvania
      Prevnar (Pneumococcal) – Lederle Laboratories in Sanford, North Carolina and Pearl River, New York

      Liked by 2 people

      • georgiafl says:

        Thanks, Stella. Is that list the addresses of the lab facilities where the medicines were developed and tested or is that also where they are manufactured?

        I have heard some medicines are developed in the US, but manufacturing the drug is done overseas in places like China or India.

        Like

      • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

        Yes, there are drug facilities all over Europe and the US., but everyone should know that India and South America are emerging as manufacturing sites for drug companies looking elsewhere than the US and Europe for economical manufacturing sites. India and South America are up and coming places for manufacturing. The FDA along with many other countries have been working for years to harmonize standards. It is not always easy, and some countries are more stringent than the USA on certain standards. Typically with some emerging markets (and for that matter some markets in Europe), the bureaucracy is mind numbing on things that don’t really matter, while some things we might consider vital for safety are ignored. That said, FDA does not have the manpower to properly oversee the regulatory aspects of the whole industry. They are big on asking companies to self-regulate, and if a company knows how to make their reports look right, gets them in on time, has a rapport with their FDA contact, and so on…

        Liked by 1 person

    • Apollo says:

      The largest vaccine company, Sanofi, is European (based in France). All of the top 5 are American, British, or European.

      Like

  15. General P. Malaise says:

    didn’t one of the researchers just do a whistle-blower saying the autism cases were purposely under reported in clinical studies?

    secondly I don’t trust people in general and doctors are part of that group I don’t trust, not any more than I trust a mechanic.

    thirdly why is Bill Gates putting lots of money into vaccines (especially in the third world) when he is a believer in eugenics and thinks there are too many people in the world and wants a bunch of us to go away?

    I am on the older side and when I was young we all got vaccines (no one refused) but we were not stuck with the number of vaccines or at such an early age as they do today.

    I certainly hope there is no other motive but the health of the people, still I see many pharma companies recalling or being sued for falsely claiming or hiding data..

    Liked by 3 people

    • stella says:

      Vaccines save lives. It’s okay to question, but keep that in mind. I’m old enough to remember whooping cough, polio, diptheria. I had measles, mumps, Chicken Pox and German measles.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Sharon says:

        stella, it occurs to me that this might be part of the problem. Too many people today have no idea what it was like to have friends or family members or ourselves with whooping cough, polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, chicken pox and German measles. I remember them all, too.

        They were kind of like ebola in that they killed indiscriminately. They killed quickly. Everyone was afraid of them. Contagion was feared.

        The old people are a lot smarter than the younger generations in some things. Sometimes. In some ways. That’s my opinion. Based on experience.

        I had/have peers who forever have one arm withered, or one leg shorter. I had friends whose life or death was determined by the uncertain functions of the iron lung.

        I’m afraid we have levels of ignorance in this country in many areas. Many, many areas.

        Liked by 8 people

        • justfactsplz says:

          I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of people don’t remember how severe these diseases can be like we do. I remember all of them and had some of them. Hopefully most of us instilled the need to vaccinate children in our own children. I know I did and my grandchildren are all vaccinated.

          Like

        • PBR says:

          Bingo, Sharon

          Like

      • As a scientist and a voter I say it’s imperative to question – and to even question the questions!

        Liked by 1 person

    • ZurichMike says:
      1. Link between autism and vaccines debunked. But that hasn’t stopped the banshee cries of the anti-vaccine crowd. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1960277,00.html
      2. If you don’t trust doctors, who would you turn to if your appendix burst? Or if you got skin cancer? Or if you had bleeding?

      3. Vaccines for the very basic illnesses that no one even talks about anymore are inexpensive and can stop all kinds of illness in poor countries for very little effort. That’s why Bill Gates — working with a host of pharma companies that produce vaccines — is helping. Is that really such an alarming scenario to you? If so, why?

      4. You see “many pharma companies recalling . . . ” Can you be more specific? Does this relate to vaccines or something else? Are you concerned about data on gene-manipulated food? Or the use of pesticides? Or animal antibiotics? If not, why not? What are your sources of information?

      Sorry, I just don’t accept arguments made of air, conjecture, and hearsay.

      Liked by 2 people

      • stella says:

        That’s why I included links regarding the studies on vaccines and autism, but didn’t go into detail. The true believers are never convinced.

        Liked by 1 person

        • ZurichMike says:

          There is a trend of the “earth mother” home-remedy crowd here in Europe who refuse to have their children vaccinated, believing that “well, if the other children are vaccinated, my kids are not at risk then”. Until they go on vacation to some exotic resort and the kid promptly catches some disease. It is staggering how ignorant the public has become on this issue.

          Liked by 3 people

          • PBR says:

            I have read all of your postings, ZurichMike, and appreciate your insight. I would never for one moment consider not vaccinating. I have a question: your thoughts, please…
            It seems to me if vaccines are to be held accountable for causing autism, would not boys and girls be developing autism at the same rate, while it seems data shows many times more boys get autism than do girls.
            Also, have you had any reason to suspect that autism spectrum runs to a certain degree in families?

            Like

            • ZurichMike says:

              Hi, PBR! You are looking at a comment from 2014! Yikes! How time flies. I am not an expert on the epidemiology of autism — a bit out of my depth!

              Like

              • PBR says:

                Hello ZMike,
                I have been following CTH for about 2 years now, and something on yesterday’s postings led me here. Very apropos, as today Mayor deBlasio of NYC announced everyone will get vaccinated for measles or face 1000. fine!

                Like

  16. http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/2014/02/10/polio-and-a-fathers-certainty/

    Jonas Salk took the vaccine first and gave it to his family, coworkers and their families.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. hoosiergranny says:

    IMO, vaccines are one of the miracles of modern science that have allowed us to live longer, better lives. Both of our children received all their recommended vaccinations when young.

    Like everything in life, however, they are not for everyone. Unfortunately, I started reacting to them about 30 years ago and now cannot tolerate most vaccines. I have horrible reactions, probably because I’m allergic to eggs and the preservatives that are used in most vaccines.If there was a specific reason to risk a vaccine (like an Ebola outbreak and they had a vaccine), I would take the vaccine while under my Drs. observation and hope for the best.

    Our daughter has an autoimmune disorder. She hasn’t had a tetanus shot in close to 20 years because of a terrible reaction to one while in high school. They tested her immune levels to tetanus last year as part of a workup at Mayo Clinic and found her level to be 10X greater than most recently vaccinated patients. This is an unusual but well documented reaction. So like everything else, use your best judgement.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks for your post. Facts about side effects will help people learn how to re-trust vaccination. I’ve never had a general response, thank goodness, but I learned over time to vary the injection site.

      Like

    • PBR says:

      hoosiergranny- my son also reacts in a similar way: each shot has been worse than the one before. When he was 5, we thought it was pertussis vaccine, but at 15 he had a tetanus booster and he was sick near to death.
      For those of you who do not know, you can develop an allergy to anything at any time, so don’t assume once you have had something and are fine, that it will always be so.

      Like

  18. ZurichMike says:

    Stella:

    Thanks for posting this. I have worked in pharma for several years now. What these companies have done and continue to do — with all of the regulation, testing, retesting, and inquiry — is nothing short of miraculous. Old census forms asked as many questions about the dead as they did the living — because so many people died of diseases that are no longer a threat to the general population, thanks to vaccines. Not thanks to overly concerned helicopter moms who think everything can be cured with wishful thinking and some brown rice, not thanks to conspiracy theorists who think Big Pharma wants to kill you, not thanks to arm-chair scientists who can’t tell the difference between a viral and a bacterial infection but insist we can cure the common cold.

    No, the reason census forms now no longer ask about the dead is because of vaccines, pure and simple.

    As one poster noted: sure, go ahead and play health roulette with your children — but please don’t ask me and the other taxpayers to take care of your kid when he contracts polio, measles, or some other horrid disease.

    Liked by 4 people

    • stella says:

      The really bad thing is that the non-vaxers can expose pregnant women and babies to disease. Whooping cough, which is making a comeback in the United States, is survivable by most children and adults, but is deadly to infants.

      Liked by 4 people

      • michellc says:

        That was why my daughter said she received the vaccine, her baby can get protection now and have some protection when he’s born. Like I said down the thread, she weighed the pros and cons and after she discovered so many infants have been dying from whooping cough, she took the vaccine.

        Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        Yes it is. My brother was eight months old when he died from it.

        Like

      • Lucille says:

        Stella, you most likely remember the wonderful actress named Gene Tierney. In her bio a very sad story was related that while doing her patriotic tours for the troops, she contracted measles. She was pregnant at the time and her baby was born mentally disabled due to the effects of measles. Many years later while at a gathering a woman greeted her and said she was in the crowd the day she visited the troops and said that she got out of sickbay just to see her even though she had measles. Miss Tierney, being a gracious person, did not outwardly react with shock, though internally she was devastated to know a devoted fan of hers had unknowingly transmitted this horrible disease which ruined the life of her precious daughter.

        So, measles is not to be dismissed lightly. Thank God that He gave the knowledge to the scientists who produced such a life-saving vaccine.

        Like

        • stella says:

          I DO know that story. Agatha Christie wrote a murder mystery that incorporated the facts of that story into it. It is called, “The Mirror Crack’d”.

          Like

          • Lucille says:

            I had not heard that and looked it up on Wiki. Their article does relate this story.

            Miss Tierney also relates in her bio that, sadly, she suffered from mental illness, also.

            For all the youngsters reading this, if you’re not familiar with Gene Tierney, please get a copy of LAURA. You won’t regret it. The film also stars Dana Andrews who had one of the most pleasing voices ever to grace the screen.

            Liked by 1 person

  19. Awesome post. Anybody who remembers asking “Mommy – why do those people have metal crutches?” has to agree. I do wish the gov was more open about vaccine side effects, because truth there would buy credibility on the wonderful relative benefit of vaccination. The child autism study results they withheld is a case in point. It’s not the crime – it’s always the cover-up.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. angie says:

    Our daughter was a sweet, loving child with a great attention span until the night she had a raging fever after having received some vaccinations. She developed ADD. Before that, there were zero symptoms of this disorder.

    We saw the effects of vaccines with a close friend’s son. Up until he had it- that morning- he was a talkative little boy who loved to hug. After his vaccinations, for 3 years, he would not speak, would not hug- he had developed autism. His mother is a woman I always called my second daughter. Thank God, she began early intervention with him. Now, he’s 12 and he talks and hugs. This would never have happened without his mother working with him daily and without the help of specialists.

    My husband’s brother developed mesothelioma and had never been exposed to risk factors except the Polio vaccine as a child. We never could figure out why we got this dreadful cancer that killed him. One day at the airport, I picked up Dr. Mary’s Monkey, not even realizing that it dealt with cancer. In the course of reading of this book, it was pointed out that scientists had used monkey cells that contained SV-40 simian virus when they developed and manufactured the vaccine. The book also stated that because of this vaccine, researchers believed that certain cancer rates, including mesothelioma would begin to rise in the 1970’s. When Congress found out, they said the formula had to be re formulated BUT the vaccines that had been produced did not have to be destroyed.

    As you can imagine, I’ve done tons of reading after having gone through these experiences with people that I love. There is a lot out there, including in August, a CDC worker, en epidemiologist, stated that the CDC lied about the connection between vaccines and autism, especially in young black males.

    Our grandson will not have vaccines. If I knew then what I now know, my children would not have received them either.

    I respect others who choose to vaccinate and only want that respect in return for our anti vaccine opinion.

    Liked by 2 people

    • stella says:

      Mesothelioma is the result of asbestos exposure. Can be exposed in many different ways – even remodeling older homes, removing flooring etc. My cousin died of it – he was an electrician working in older school buildings.

      Your grandson will probably be okay, since most of his schoolmates will be vaccinated and he will have “herd” protection.

      As I said before, those who believe that vaccines cause autism will believe it no matter what studies are done, or scientific papers are published.

      Liked by 2 people

      • angie says:

        Mesothelioma is not only caused by asbestos exposure. In my post, I pointed out that researchers said they expected a rise in cancers, including mesothelioma, as a result of the tainted polio vaccine.

        Liked by 1 person

    • I did not have chicken pox as a child. It is dangerous to get as an adult or elderly person. It can kill or maim a fetus or newborn. Imagine my dismay when my oldest brought home a note that chicken pox was going around the school. I was already a high risk pregnancy with my youngest. (They had only started OFFERING chicken pox vaccines – too new to ‘try out’ on my oldest) So now my health and my baby’s was at risk.

      Your choice to not vaccinate doesn’t just effect yours. Unvaccinated children should not be allowed in public school.

      If you’re prone to not like something you can always find “evidence” to back up your opinion.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Apollo says:

        Very true–parents who do not vaccinate are rolling the dice not only on their own children’s lives, but those of their neighbors, friends, and ultimately the whole population.

        Like

      • chuckles49 says:

        Not intending to be argumentative, but If you and your children are all vaccinated against the myriad of childhood diseases, why be so concerned about those who choose not to be vaccinated? Doesn’t the vaccines you’ve received protect from such exposure?

        Like

        • An infant isn’t protected until a week or so after they’ve received that specific vaccine. There are people with true allergies to ingredients of vaccines that cannot or should not receive the vaccine. Many vaccines, especially the ‘older ones’ eventually are less effective leaving elderly people (one of the more vulnerable groups) unprotected. So, people that have chosen not to vaccinate are putting infants and others at risk.

          Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      Three anecdotal cases — without context — do not make your claim valid under any circumstances. How do you know that the friend’s son was destined to be non-talkative to begin with? Or that your daughter would be ADD? How do you know the fever was not related to something else? In short, there are far too many variables (environment, genetics, predisposition for certain illnesses or syndromes, other contagions or causes) unrelated to the specific vaccine.

      I wonder how you will feel when a pregnant woman living near your unvaccinated children succumbs to some unmanifested disease they carry that harms her and/or her unborn child (or infant if born).

      Liked by 3 people

      • People need to understand that “a small number of autism cases may be linked to vaccination, but the evidence is scant at best” is a far cry from “vaccination causes autism”. In fact, anecdotal cases of vaccine reactions are often very likely caused by exposure to other sick people in a healthcare setting when getting shots. Enteroviruses? Who knows?

        Like

        • stella says:

          I don’t know, but I suspect that some of the huge increases in the number of autism cases is due to the way in which it is diagnosed, rather than an actual increase. The other one that bothers me is ADD. My grandson was “diagnosed” at school, where they recommended that he be medicated. His parents went along with it (they carefully hid this from me, but the news slipped out anyway – I didn’t say anything to them). My daughter came to the conclusion that he was a normal rowdy boy who wasn’t getting enough playground time. His teacher’s idea of punishment was to keep him away from the playground!

          Now he’s a brilliant student in advanced placement math in high school. His biggest problem is that he doesn’t know when to shut up (just like his mother was when she was in high school). Gets him in trouble every time.

          Liked by 2 people

          • michellc says:

            I have a huge problem with ADD. How many of us have watched kids run around and say, “if I could figure out how to bottle that energy and sell it to parents and grandparents, I’d be rich?” Okay, I’m a little nutty, so maybe I’m the only one.lol

            Kids have tons of energy and now schools are so focused on each minute being spent teaching that kids have very little time to play on the playground and instead spend hours a day sitting. Then many of them go home and once again sit. It’s not in a child’s DNA to sit, they need to be moving. Then teachers and doctors think a kid running around the room or not being able to concentrate has to be because they have ADD. Common sense is ignored that says the kid has sat with all this energy bottled inside and they need to get it out.

            I’ve also have witnessed the poor kids drugged and some of them become like zombies.

            Liked by 2 people

            • LOL, I say that all the time about my wee one. When he came along I was used to his sister, who was always a sweet little thing who could sit and play quietly. This one literally bounces off the walls, and for a while I was convinced he had some kind of hyperactivity issue, even though prior to having him I was already convinced that ADD etc are WAY overdiagnosed.

              Well, as I got used to him I realized I was just dealing with the difference between boys and girls.

              Like

              • michellc says:

                Night and day difference between boys and girls. Wait until he gets to the age where you hear, “I can do it.”
                I can do it is never a good thing to hear and you’re real lucky when “I can do it,” isn’t followed with cuts, scrapes, bruises or a trip to the ER.

                I learned to move real fast when I heard, “I can do it.” Not always fast enough to prevent it, but at least fast enough to laugh when I realized stitches or a cast wasn’t needed. Even mothers laugh at the stupidity of their children.lol

                Liked by 1 person

          • OMG – the recommendation to medicate. We got it too, back in the 90’s. Our pediatrician REFUSED. He said we could force him, and he would remain our son’s doctor to make sure it didn’t harm him, but we chose to take his advice. His opposition was enough to push back on the school.

            Liked by 2 people

        • ZurichMike says:

          But the shoddy logic is the same. Out of context linkages, however small, is as dangerous and disingenuous as a published article that is then retracted.

          Liked by 1 person

      • angie says:

        He was verbal before the vaccine.

        Like

        • michellc says:

          Many studies have been conducted to determine if a link exists between immunization and increased prevalence of autism, with particular attention to the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and vaccines containing the preservative thimerosal. These studies have found no link between vaccines and autism. We strongly encourage parents to have their children vaccinated, because this will protect them against serious diseases. It remains possible that, in rare cases, immunization might trigger the onset of autism symptoms in a child with an underlying medical or genetic condition.

          http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/faq

          Like

          • angie says:

            I’ve often wondered if there might be a genetic link between vaccines and children who develop autism after having had them. Does the vaccine trigger some anomaly in a brain or nerve cell? Is that why sometimes only 1 child in a family will have autism and their siblings don’t?
            There are 3.5 million people with autism in the US out of a total population of 316 million or 1%. Maybe these individuals are the rare cases.

            Like

            • PBR says:

              No one has mentioned that autism shows up after the age of two, and so you must consider the possibility of a coincidence that a child develops autism after vaccines, vaccines that he/she has mad many by the time they are 2 years old.

              Like

      • chuckles49 says:

        A dozen pages of so-called unbiased studies does not make your claim valid either. How do you know with 100% certainty their conditions weren’t caused as a result of vaccines? Pharmaceutical companies are not charitable organizations, they’re businesses, with the bottom line being to make a profit for their investors.

        Like

        • ZurichMike says:

          If you are waiting for 100% certainty, than you must live in a plastic bubble free from risk of any kind. “A dozen pages of so-called unbiased studies” — you truly have ZERO idea of what goes into studies required to before, during, and after a product is brought to market. The science and medicine behind each product, and the studies that must account for all of that, are intense, rigorous, comprehensive, frequent, and made public, as is the connection between the pharma company and the healthcare professionals who might be conducting the clinical trials, writing the study, or discussing the results with regulators and panels of experts (“sunshine act”).

          Wanting to be profitable is the same motivation for those who sell you your cars, your food, your clothing, your homes, and which provide you airplanes for travel, tobacco for smoking, alcohol for drinking, and snacks for munching. Do you have an issue with those companies? Or are you just buying into the tired meme that Big Pharma (or Big Oil or Big Insurance) is a convenient bogeyman responsible for everything you are feeling but unwilling to parse and discuss?

          Like

    • Thanks for your post. While I strongly support vaccination, I believe we have not been aggressive enough in understanding side effects. The narcolepsy event in Scandinavia may be our first real lead into how this works. I would love to see vaccination made 100% safe – not just 99.9whatever%. That requires facing the music.

      Like

      • stella says:

        While questioning based on facts is a good thing, I doubt that any medical procedure will ever be 100% safe.

        Liked by 1 person

      • ZurichMike says:

        Do you require 100% safety for food? Cars? Clothing? Air travel? Elevators? Taxi drivers?

        Just checking.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Honestly, I prefer it as a goal, even when nature delivers only a long string of 9’s.

          Like

          • ZurichMike says:

            A goal for sure, but unrealistic. We would be frozen with inactivity and fear without taking some calculated risk after first trying to eliminate risk, minimize what’s left, control it, and monitor results for further improvement. This, in fact, is what the entire life cycle of a pharmaceutical product is.

            Liked by 1 person

            • I think we simply have to be realistic about acceptable risk. I accept risks by engaging in some risky sports and pursuits. But I mitigate and minimize risk relentlessly, and it has literally saved my life. Knowledge is the key. Know as many risks as possible – reduce the number of known unknowns and spaces for unknown unknowns – do the safe thing you don’t care about when it’s just as easy as a risky one you don’t care about – all of these create the freedom for the risky thing I do care about. So I would never want to walk away from drugs with side effects, or demand perfection. But I’ll never turn away from wanting to know the truth about how drugs fall short.

              Like

              • ZurichMike says:

                Sorry, “how drugs fall short” is an assumption that begs the question, a fallacy where the assumption is actually the conclusion you want to make. Not buying it.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Allow me to phrase it differently, then. Drugs have side effects and pharmacological actions outside their prescribed uses, both of which may be undesirable. Since one goal of drug companies would appear to be minimizing this, their objective would appear to be something with fewer side effects and more targeted pharmacological actions. “Falling short” seems like a useful term for the nature of the actual drugs in hand at any given time, but perhaps I’m prejudiced by the Christian attitude that falling short is unavoidable and acceptable, yet still not OK. I get the feeling that attitude is not OK in the industry, leaving me stranded alone between the ambulance chasers and the companies they shake down. So be it. I’m pretty good at falling short, myself.

                  Like

                • ZurichMike says:

                  Pharma companies do minimize side effects, as it would, in addition to causing unnecessary pain and suffering, ruin in turn their reputation and profits. How are pharma products “falling short” — why is this a useful term “for the nature of actual drugs at any given time”`? Again, you are setting up the assumption as the conclusion: that pharma products fall short.

                  Like

    • stella says:

      I think this is what you are referring to:

      The hypothesis that SV40 might cause cancer in humans has been a particularly controversial area of research.[9] Several different methods have been used to detect SV40 in a variety of human cancers, although how reliable these detection methods are, and whether SV40 has any role in causing these tumors, remains unclear.[10] As a result of these uncertainties, academic opinion remains divided, with some arguing that this hypothesis is not supported by the data,[11] and others arguing that some cancers may involve SV40.[12][13] However, the United States National Cancer Institute announced in 2004 that although SV40 does cause cancer in some animal models, “substantial epidemiological evidence has accumulated to indicate that SV40 likely does not cause cancer in humans”.[14] This announcement is based on two recent studies.[15][16] This 2004 announcement is in contrast to a 2002 study performed by The National Academy of Sciences Immunization Safety Review committee that stated, “The committee concludes that the biological evidence is moderate that SV40 exposure could lead to cancer in humans under natural conditions.”[17]However, Namika, Goodison,…and Rosser found that the SV40 large t-antigen, in combination with mycoplasma, often a contaminate of vaccines and which were also likely to have infected Dr. Eddy’s hamsters, can cause prostate cells to turn cancerous. Whether or not this is true for other human cells is debatable.[18]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

      Like

  21. michellc says:

    I’ve known people who didn’t vaccinate their children, back before all the celebrities decided vaccines caused autism. I respected their choice, didn’t really understand it, but I’ve always kind of lived the live and let live way. One of her reasons was you could still get the disease, well that is kind of true, I did get the measles although I was vaccinated for them, however according to the doctor it wasn’t the bad kind and I would have been much sicker if not for the vaccine and I had whooping cough after vaccination. My brother got the mumps, but once again the doctors said it would have been much worse.

    I was vaccinated, my children were vaccinated, except for chicken pox. That started with my youngest and he had already had chicken pox and I thought it was stupid to give him a vaccine for something he already had. I’m still not sure if I had a child today I would give them that particular vaccine unless it has drastically improved because I knew children who were getting way sicker in the beginning than any of mine did with chicken pox.

    I haven’t really discussed vaccines with my daughter, that is her choice to make. I do know that they wanted her to take the flu vaccine and tetanus with whooping cough, she refused the flu shot and took the tetanus with whooping cough. She did her own research and was comfortable with the one and not with the other. I assume she’s doing vaccines with my grandson though as she was asking me if any of them ever had reactions to their 6 week vaccines after reading one of the many pamphlets she’s received. I told her the truth, low grade fever and a knot in their leg for a few days along with fussiness for a day or so.

    She’s my kid so she has a little tin foil hat, but she’s also able to weigh the pros and cons and I’m about 99.9% sure she will decide the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to such serious diseases.

    Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      The measles vaccine has been improved greatly since the 1980’s, when measles still occurred in those who had been vaccinated. I believe they recommend a second course of vaccine, but I’m not entirely clear on that.

      Like

      • michellc says:

        I was a teenager when I got measles.
        I was just reading when they came out with MMR, so I may have just had the measles vaccine.

        I do know my mother was pro-vaccine and she would have vaccinated us even if it was still in the trial phase.

        I think my kids had their first MMR when they were around a year old and a booster before they started school, but I could be wrong about that.

        None of them had measles, mumps or rubella. They though had a lot of years to perfect the vaccine from the 60’s and early 70’s when I would have been vaccinated.

        Like

        • stella says:

          I just got the diseases – no vaccines when I was of that age! The only vaccines we had were for polio and smallpox.

          Liked by 2 people

          • michellc says:

            I remember hearing my oldest brother saying that mom talked him into getting the measles vaccine.
            He had never had measles and the doctor said although he was an adult, the vaccine could still prevent it. All of her teenage children also received it.

            I was always pretty sure why I got it, we had a kid who was from another country, not sure where from, who was at the movies with other kids who were sitting next to us. I had shared my popcorn with him and then noticed bumps on his hand after I had already ate some. He couldn’t speak English and we all tried to ask what they were after I had noticed them, but he didn’t understand us.
            I’m still not sure how he came to be there, but I do know 3 of us came down with the measles afterwards.

            I never shared my popcorn again at the movies and I never sat down next to someone I didn’t know and still to this day move if someone sits next to me.lol

            Like

            • stella says:

              Measles is so contagious that you can get it just by breathing in the same room as someone who is infected. That’s why everybody had it when I was a kid.

              Like

              • michellc says:

                I’ll always blame the foreign kid.lol

                All three of us who got the measles were sharing the same popcorn and I always believed that was why we caught it even after being vaccinated and the other 3 kids there didn’t. They weren’t eating popcorn.lol

                Like

      • michellc says:

        This is just my personal opinion, but I believe something happens that is coincidental with about the time a vaccine is given and people just naturally link the two.

        If it did cause autism then it would seem to me we would have many more kids with autism than we do.

        Liked by 1 person

  22. ZurichMike says:

    Another fact for those who think pharma makes too much money.

    For every 10,000 ideas for a new pharmaceutical product or vaccine, perhaps 10 make it to testing stage. Of the 10, perhaps 1 makes it to clinical testing. Clinical testing is rigorous, lengthy, highly controlled, and highly regulated. A drug can make it all the way through trial phases, but, at the last moment, fail. Products fail for a number of reasons: unanticipated lack of efficacy, unanticipated serious side effects, etc.

    Each product that makes it though some phases of clinical testing but fails can cost, in terms of research and development, hundreds of millions of dollars. Multiply that by the number of failed products and you’re in the billions of dollars in research and development that may advance the body of knowledge about drug development, but has not resulted in a useful product. To say nothing of the cost of thinking about, designing, and lab-testing the other 9,990 molecules that went nowhere.

    Highly trained and school medical doctors, Ph.D.s in biochemistry, genetics, pharmacology, biology, pharmacokinetics — hundreds upon thousands of them — spend untold hours thinking and looking at the human body and all the variables that may lead to something to make our lives a bit healthier.

    Please tell me when the food industry or the automotive industry do the same thing.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I agree, except why are there such price differences between countries for the same medication? I understand differences in FDA procedures and legal systems. (too many lawsuits) Why should I personally subsidize certain medications because I need them – that should be my personal choice.

      Like

      • ZurichMike says:

        Pricing of a pharmaceutical product is the same as for any product on the market: you charge what the market will bear. The US can afford more, western Europe can afford more, but poorer countries cannot. There are rules about “parallel trade” (importing in less expensive country and re-exporting at a higher price (but below the ceiling price) of the more expensive country).

        Like

        • chuckles49 says:

          So what you’re saying is: If you can charge someone more legally, then it’s okay to do so? It’s our responsibility to pick up the slack for poorer countries, right? How Socialistic of you! I thought we were Conservative here at the Treehouse. LOL

          Like

          • ZurichMike says:

            Isn’t that the point of business? You charge what the market will bear, whether it’s apples or aspirin. Regarding pricing of pharma products in other countries, I am describing reality, not what pharma companies would like to do. Registration of products is coupled with price, as the state often also runs reimbursembent or payment of state-run formularies.

            Like

          • stella says:

            That’s the way it works with anything, not just pharmaceuticals. A good example is phone services. The pricing of many commodities are controlled by the host governments, as well.

            Like

  23. maryfrommarin says:

    The only vaccination that concerns me even a little is the HPV one. And that for a wide range of reasons, not just physical.

    I would appreciate any feedback/personal experience about this particular vaccination.

    Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      In a nutshell: Not a cure-all, but in dramatically reducing the chances of contracting HPV, it also vastly reduces the ugly consequences of infection: cervical cancer.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I think both sexes should receive it with their middle school vaccines. If it prevents one type of cancer, I believe down the road it will be shown to prevent others that we just haven’t made a link to yet. As far as getting every NEW vaccine when it first comes out…. It’s got to be a personal decision, I didn’t and it could have bitten me and my youngest badly – so my opinion is different than it was 20 years ago…

      Liked by 1 person

  24. daveburton says:

    I think this is the best article I’ve ever read here.

    However, not all vaccines are equally useful. Vaccines like MMR, DTaP & Hep-B are essential. But some vaccines are not. Gardasil (for HPV) and Zostavax (the shingles vaccine), both from Merck, are lousy.

    Gardasil and Zostavax are both very expensive, short-lasting, and minimally effective, with side-effects that may well exceed their touted benefits. They make lots of money for Merck, but it’s not clear that they have any net benefit for people’s health.

    Women need to know the truth about Gardasil, especially:

    Gardasil (the quadrivalent HPV vaccine) protects against only a few strains of HPV. According to a U. Washington study (Winer, et al, 2006; see Table 2), most recent HPV infections with “high risk” oncogenic (cancer-causing) strains of HPV are strains that Gardasil does not protect against.

    The U. Washington study made headlines because, unlike most other studies, they found that condoms somewhat reduce the risk of HPV infection. But the study’s most important result was universally ignored by the press.

    HPV types 16, 18, 26, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 53, 56, 58, 59, 66, 67, 68, 73, and 82 have all been identified as high-risk oncogenic strains, and Gardasil is only designed to protect against types 16 and 18. Those two types accounted for just 14 out of 78 high-risk infections detected in the U. Washington study.

    Some researchers think that Gardasil vaccination might impart partial cross-protection against some other oncogenic strains, but such cross-protection is probably slight, if it exists at all. 82% of the high-risk infections in the U. Washington study were with HPV strains against which Gardasil provides little or no protection.

    The relative prevalence of different HPV strains in the general population varies considerably, both by location and over time, and cervical cancer usually takes a long time to develop. Today’s cervical cancer cases result from the HPV types which were prevalent decades ago, and those are the strains that Gardasil is designed to protect against, not the numerous other high-risk strains which now cause most high-risk HPV infections.

    Gardasil is like the Maginot Line: a defense designed for the previous war, but inadequate for the current one.

    If young women who get the Gardasil vaccine before they become sexually active erroneously think that they are safe from cervical cancer, they may forgo PAP smears, and, paradoxically, be at greater risk of dying from cervical cancer than if they’d never gotten the vaccine at all.

    Women need to know that:

    1. Gardasil protects against just 2 of the 19 (so far) known high-risk strains of HPV,
    2. The vast majority of high-risk HPV infections are with strains that Gardasil does little or nothing to protect against, and

    3. Sexually active women are at risk of cervical & other cancers, and still need regular PAP smears, regardless of whether they’ve had Gardasil.

    And it gets worse. A recent CDC study (Markowitz 2013) found that Gardasil-vaccinated girls had slightly higher rates of infection with high-risk HPV strains than did unvaccinated girls!

    Part of the problem is exaggeration of the vaccine’s benefits by the manufacturer (Merck), but a big part is misleading reporting by the press. For example, on 6/20/2013, on “CBS This Morning,” I heard Holly Phillips, MD, report that Gardasil can “eradicate” (her word) the disease, and that people who get the vaccine will never get HPV-caused cancers. That kind of misinformation may well be causing some women to behave less responsibly, or skip PAP smears, which could cost some of them their lives.

    BTW, Markowitz 2013 (J Infect Dis., doi:10.1093/infdis/jit192) is now paywalled, but I have a copy. Let me know if you want it.

    Liked by 3 people

    • maryfrommarin says:

      Should I contact you at one of your three websites for the paywalled info?

      And do you have some general comments (similar to above, of any length) about Zostavax?

      Like

      • daveburton says:

        Yes, my contact info is on my sites. Send me an email, and I’ll send you the paper.

        W/r/t Zostavax, my doc says that shingles is very effectively and inexpensively treatable if caught early. So at first symptoms, see your doctor sooner, rather than later.

        It’s been a while since I looked at it, but my recollection is that if you do the arithmetic on the likelihood of adverse side-effects from the vaccine vs. the number of shingles cases that it prevents, it doesn’t make sense to get the vaccine, if you expect to be in a position to get prompt treatment if you get shingles. If you’re planning on spending an extended amount of time as a missionary in a remote village in Asia, it might make sense to get the shingles vaccine before you go.

        Also, w/r/t Zostavax, there’s not much epidemiological rationale for getting the vaccine. You don’t put other people at much risk by not getting it. The CDC says, “Shingles is less contagious than chickenpox and the risk of a person with shingles spreading the virus is low if the rash is covered.” That’s different from most other vaccines.

        Liked by 1 person

        • stella says:

          I had shingles when I was much younger, and a friend of mine has had it twice – both very bad bouts, with lingering nerve pain. I haven’t had the vaccine, but I wonder if your doctor has actually had shingles, or treated someone with a bad case.

          Like

          • Sharon says:

            And in addition – we’re not really excited about “medical advice” being dispensed on CTH. Informal conversation is one thing. And then there’s a point where it becomes another thing.

            Like

          • daveburton says:

            It’s treated with antiviral drugs, like Acyclovir. If not caught early, it can be debilitatingly painful. Here’s the Mayo Clinic page:
            http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/basics/treatment/con-20019574

            Like

            • stella says:

              I understand the treatment. I know, however, that there are mild cases (as mine was) and cases that are more difficult, including lengthy periods of nerve pain. It does not necessarily have anything to do with when, or even if (my case) antiviral drugs are administered. My friend got prompt treatment.

              Like

              • michellc says:

                My husband had shingles twice, the first time when he was very young. He had nerve surgery done and they thought that was what triggered it. A few years ago he had it again.
                The first time it was on his side, right below his underarm and partially on his chest and back. He suffered greatly at times even hard to breathe and every breath caused pain.
                The second time it was across his lower back and although painful, nowhere near as bad as the first time, more due to where it was located though. He was at the pharmacy waiting for a prescription and an elderly lady sat down next to him and was telling him she had shingles. He thought nothing of it and talked about when he had it years ago. A few days later he woke up with back pain and had shingles again. He was told it wasn’t contagious and I guess it could have been a coincidence that he got it within a few days of being exposed to it.

                He got prompt treatment both times and was treated with antiviral drugs along with patches placed directly at the site.

                I may though have to look into the vaccine and see if it works after you’ve already had shingles. Because regardless of what a doctor says, it was very painful for him both times and if there’s a chance the vaccine could prevent him from getting it again, I’m sure he would think it’s worth the risk.

                Liked by 1 person

      • daveburton says:

        Hey, good news! I see that the 2013 CDC/Markowitz study paper has been un-paywalled again!

        It was initially free; then it was paywalled; now it is free again – I have no idea why. You may read it here:

        http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/06/18/infdis.jit192.full?sid=2e3ff264-cfb4-40a9-b1b8-245bf2623574

        Look a this graph (Markowitz’s figure 1). You can see that, even before the vaccine reduced the incidence of types 16 & 18, most of the high-risk HPV infections were of other types, confirming Winer, 2006:
        http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/06/18/infdis.jit192/F1.large.jpg

        From that graph, it appears that only about 19% of high-risk HPV infections were types 16 & 18 in 2003–2006, and only about 13% in 2007–2010.

        It is frequently claimed (by Merck & by various authors, including Markowitz) that approximately 70% of cervical cancer cases are caused by types 16 & 18. That suggests that a 50% reduction in 70% of cases would lead to an overall (0.5 x 0.7 = 0.35) = 35% reduction in cervical cancer cases. But that is almost certainly a false hope. It is based on very dubious assumptions.

        The study from which the 70% number comes (de Sanjose, et al, 2010) simply looked for the presence or absence of various HPV strains in preserved tissue samples from cervical cancer patients. They found that 71% of those patients were infected with HPV type 16 and/or 18.

        But that does not mean types 16 & 18 caused all those cancers! For one thing, many of those patients were also infected with other high-risk types of HPV, which presumably caused at least some of the cancers. Also, 15% of the cancer patients had no detectable HPV infection at all, which suggests that in a significant percentage of the patients with HPV infections the cancers might also have had other causes.

        So it is statistically incorrect to conclude from de Sanjose et al that 70% of cervical cancer cases are caused by HPV types 16 & 18.

        There is evidence that HPV types 16, 18 & 45 may have higher oncogenicity than some other high-risk types, because in women infected with those HPV strains cervical cancer seems to develop at a somewhat younger age. A higher oncogenicity would contribute to the high percentage of current cervical cancer patients infected by those strains of HPV.

        But it almost certainly is not the only reason. The changing relative prevalences of different HPV types may be a more important cause.

        Cervical cancer is typically diagnosed decades after the infection. So the prevalence of various high-risk HPV types decades ago is what largely determines the percentages of today’s cancer cases caused by those types. The (different) prevalence of high-risk HPV types today is what will determine the percentages of different types that cause cervical cancer in the future. If types 16 & 18 were relatively more prevalent compared to other high risk types thirty years ago than they are today, then, like mediocre generals, we’re building defenses for the previous war, instead of the next.

        But the news gets worse. Look at Markowitz’s table 3:
        http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/06/18/infdis.jit192/T3.expansion.html

        Look at the lines labeled “Vaccinated” and compare them with the lines labeled “Unvaccinated.”

        Do you see it? It is the vaccinated patients who have the highest HPV infection rates!

        The overall prevalence of HPV among vaccinated sexually-active teens is 50.0%, but among unvaccinated sexually-active teens it is only 38.6%.

        The prevalence of high-risk HPV strains other than 16 & 18 is similarly skewed: 35.2% of vaccinated sexually-active teens are infected, and only 25.3% of unvaccinated sexually-active teens.

        Of course, vaccinated teens had much lower rates of type 16 & 18 infection than did unvaccinated teens, but that wasn’t enough to offset the vaccinated teens’ higher rates of infection with other high-risk types. Because most high-risk HPV infections are other types, a slightly higher percentage of vaccinated teens had high-risk HPV infections than did unvaccinated teens.

        Obviously, vaccination does not protect against infection with high-risk strains of HPV!

        Additionally, Gardasil has its own risks:
        http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/weekly-updates/27-judicial-watch-special-report-hpv-vaccine-gardasil/

        The number of deaths and injuries is small compared to the number of patients, but it could eventually be dwarfed by the number of future cancer deaths, if some patients mistakenly believe that vaccination means they needn’t get regular exams & pap smears.

        Gardasil cannot reliably protect them from cervical cancer. It will not eradicate that disease, nor even come close. The best we can hope for is a modest reduction in the number of cases, and even that is uncertain.

        Over-hyping the potential of Gardasil to combat cervical cancer could end up killing more patients than the vaccine saves.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Thanks for this. The whole thing makes me wonder if vaccination science has gotten to the point where most of the really bad diseases have been worked on, and all that’s left are the ones that can’t realistically be worked on in normal facilities. Hence the concentration on less clear-cut cases.

          Like

    • St. Benedict's Thistle says:

      Thank you for this. Also, if people knew the millions of dollars that are being paid yearly to young girls/women who have received this vaccine and had catastrophic effects they might think twice about it. Again, I am not anti-vaccine, but we all need to understand the issues. Zurich Mike is right to speak about the millions of dollars in research and development, but that also means that sometimes shortcuts happen in the regulatory process as so many millions of dollars are at stake. It is people, not automatons who are in charge, and sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes corruption happens.

      Like

  25. I’m one of those people who have to read everything and educate myself about everything I face. I am, therefore, terrified of not having my kids vaccinated and, by the same token, always terrified when I do. I read all the possible side effects and reactions to the vaccines and I have many sleepless nights following the vaccines. Those are well worth the peace of mind that knowing my kids are vaccinated brings, though. Vaccinate. I cannot imagine watching my child fighting for his life against a disease my bad choice exposed him to and God forbid he lose that fight.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Sharon says:

      I don’t have the personal strength to live terrified. Daily responses of terror and fear (for which there will be endless triggers in the days ahead) just ain’t good for ya.

      Liked by 2 people

  26. 40-50 years ago, there was no such thing as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia. There isn’t a widespread theory that these are ’caused’ by immunizations. It would even make sense to blame immunizations. There is quite a bit of overlap of symptoms between these syndromes and thyroid issues. One of the changes in the last 50 years is testing for hypothyroidism, which gives doctors parameters to use when treating rather than treating symptoms.

    75-100 years ago, children with problems were institutionalized, the parents likely had less children than others in the community (so lessened the number of children with problems when calculating) Infant and child mortality rates were much higher – likely the children that would have later been identified as ‘problem children’ were the ones that didn’t make it through “normal” childhood illnesses (that we now have vaccines for)

    Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      Let’s not again make causal connections where none might exist. The reason there is so of X [cancer, ADHD, etc.] may be simply due to the fact that the sophistication of diagnosis has increased in quantum leaps. Certain lysosomal storage disorders were chalked up to just being “that funny looking kid” who was always sick and had stunted growth just 30 years ago. Now they are recognized genetic disorders. That doesn’t mean vaccines caused these disorders. It’s just that we can now diagnose them.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I was trying to explain that. There are 100s of reasons that there are now a different number of this, that, or other disorder than there was 75 years ago….. it could be as simple as teaching of proper hygiene and disposable paper towels. There were still ADD kids, but they were made to conform or not noticed b/c many people didn’t go to school much beyond elementary school.

        Like

    • I have Systemic Lupus and was sitting in my Rheumatologist’s office one day (this was over 10 years ago, by the way) waiting on my appointment and there was a medical report journal sitting in the waiting room. There was an article in it hypothesizing that Fibromyalgia was a result of infection with a mutation of the polio virus. Being a medical journal, there were citations and reports of studies, etc. cited. I’ve never heard anything else about this, but it was an interesting article.

      Liked by 1 person

  27. Tkim says:

    I was curious what parents who didn’t vaccinate said when their kids were diagnosed with autism anyway. Sadly the mothers blame themselves for not having had their fillings removed before they got pregnant, and one who had no fillings was convinced her own mother’s teeth fillings when SHE was pregnant was the reason her grandson was autistic.

    For many people the seeming randomness of life is too disturbing to tolerate. They want to have a level of control that no human being has ever been able to have. Not in this life.

    Before the rubella vaccine teenagers used to have German measles parties so they wouldn’t have to worry about contacting the disease when they became pregnant one day. Those same girls were overjoyed when the vaccine was offered in public school to their kids. . What a huge fear that their daughters wouldn’t have to bear.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. sooverit says:

    The pro-vaccination crowd on here seems to be pretty aggressive. Insulting people who are against vaccines isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. Whether you choose to vaccinate is (and should be) ultimately up to the individual. I’m not going to do ANYTHING just for the “greater good” or allow anyone to force me to put something in my body that I feel is dangerous. There have been many “anecdotal” health issues that were simply dismissed by mainstream medicine over the years that were actually pretty serious when further examined. Science is an ever-changing field and what might be deemed perfectly safe today could be proven to be potentially hazardous tomorrow. While I appreciate all of the wonderfully presented facts given I think the snippy and ungracious delivery is rather bothersome and frankly, pretty uncharacteristic of theconservativetreehouse.

    Liked by 2 people

    • stella says:

      Speaking for myself (since I made the post), whether or not you vaccinate is always your decision. That doesn’t mean I won’t say that what you do or don’t do may have an affect on the health of others. If you don’t care about that, that is also your decision but doesn’t change the facts.

      What isn’t debatable is that vaccines have saved millions of lives. The reason why you aren’t worried about getting the diseases is that they have been vanquished in large part because of the use of vaccines.

      Liked by 2 people

      • If Ebola has done anything good, it is to remind us just what these diseases of the past were like. I’m quite grateful that multiple Ebola vaccines are being worked on right now. When they’re ready, I’ll take one without hesitation. I think that I would probably even volunteer to be a guinea pig for an untested one. That is my general level of trust in vaccines.

        Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      I find the sanctimonious way that science and facts are dismissed by feelings and emotion to be ungracious as well. There is a deluge of misinformation out there, from reciting the cant of long-debunked theories, or making causal connections based on unscientifically controlled anecdotal cases or hearsay. Sorry — if you dislike being challenged on beliefs that have no basis in fact, logic, or common sense, then you have bigger problems than “bothersome” delivery.

      Liked by 2 people

      • angie says:

        Feelings, emotions, and don’t forget experience.

        Like

      • chuckles49 says:

        I appreciate your opinion ZM, but are you a doctor ZM or a pharmaceutical representative? I’m neither, but I’ll choose commonsense over a thousand studies or graphs any day of the week which are produced by people with vested financial interests in the outcomes. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck, even if you tell me it’s a kangaroo..

        In my state you must vaccinate all school age children, and I live in fear of side effects every time I’m forced to go against my better judgement just so they can get an education. Doctors and nurses lie all the time by omission by oversimplifying things because they don’t believe you’re smart enough to understand them, or make an informed decision on your own. Their arrogance is annoying.

        Like

        • angie says:

          Chuckles, all 50 states have medical exemptions, 48 allow religious exemptions, and 19 allow philosophical exemptions. MO, one of the 19, only allows the philosophical exemption through preschool. This applies to public schools. Private schools can set their own rules.

          Like

        • ZurichMike says:

          I am representative of a debate style that requires fundamental knowledge of facts, law, logic, and reasoning abilities. I am a lawyer, and have worked in many industries, including pharma.

          What studies are you talking about? Casting a wide net like that and making sweeping generalizations based on faulty assumptions. The written documentation required for the reasons cited: safety, efficacy, quality — are strict, comprehensive, rigorous, and grueling. They are reviewed by many independent panels of experts as well. This happens before, during, and after a product comes to market.

          Sorry about the bedside manner of your physicians and nurses, but that is off topic.

          Liked by 1 person

          • chuckles49 says:

            So you represent a debating style, that requires a fundamental knowledge of facts, law, logic, and reasoning abilities:. Translated, anyone who has a different opinion than yourself, is uninformed, and lacks basic reasoning ability. That’s good to know..

            I used to be a social worker, an EMT, a substance abuse counselor, and once upon a time, a sanitation worker (garbage man), But you know what? It still doesn’t make me an expert on any of those fields. I never took myself that seriously. I realized we’re all fallible, and don’t know everything.

            Don’t apologize for my doctors arrogance, it’s they’re nature to have God complexes. When they make a mistake, they’re the last to admit it, and will cite you a thousand studies as to why they’re not culpable. Thank God for the lawyers that help to re-assert their humanity in courts.

            Like

            • ZurichMike says:

              You are absolutely correct — it is best, if you have an uninformed opinion, not to pollute the discussion with nonsense. Unfortunately, the opinions expressed by many people on this topic are devoid of facts, law, logic, and reasoning abilities. If you don’t take yourself seriously, pray do not express opinions, then, on very serious topics that have dire consequences for others.

              Liked by 1 person

              • chuckles49 says:

                Those of of who disagree, are only Humans after all. Please forgive us our ignorance. I don’t consider myself to be uninformed, but then again, I’m not a self-professed expert either because I happened to have read a few studies on the subject. Maybe we should just agree to disagree..

                Like

                • ZurichMike says:

                  It is less to do with what someone has read and more to do with how one argues a point. I have never proclaimed to be an expert.

                  Like

            • PBR says:

              chuckles- whenever people speak in hyperbole, I question their statement.
              “it’s they’re nature to have God complexes”. Doctors have individual personalities, training, and abilities. It is not “their” nature to have god complexes, and they are not trained to have them either. Most doctors live a life of service and care about their patients. giving consideration to them long after the clock shows 6 pm.

              Like

    • firefly says:

      Prevention is better than a Cure. Anyone that catches one of these Communicable diseases w/o being vaccinated, poses a risk to those that have never been vaccinated. Please think about the risks!

      Liked by 1 person

  29. sooverit says:

    There are so many things we do that can potentially have an affect on the health of others. I’m just not interested policing and regulating these things because the list of such things WILL NEVER END. I never said I wasn’t worried about getting these diseases or that it isn’t a concern of mine and I think it is a pretty big jump as well as insulting to say I don’t care about the health of others because I don’t agree with your position.

    Like

    • stella says:

      I’m curious why you chose, for the first time, to make a comment at the conservativetreehouse on THIS particular post. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about something.

      Liked by 1 person

      • sooverit says:

        I have a chip on MY shoulder?? You’re tone and replies to anyone who as dared to disagree with you on this post have been overly aggressive and downright boorish. First, I don’t care about other’s health and now I have a chip on my shoulder just because I don’t agree with your position. I thought it was a liberal tactic to get personal when losing an argument. Guess not.

        Like

        • stella says:

          “I think the snippy and ungracious delivery is rather bothersome and frankly, pretty uncharacteristic of theconservativetreehouse.” Your words about my post. You came in here swinging at the “pro-vaccination” crowd:

          “The pro-vaccination crowd on here seems to be pretty aggressive. Insulting people who are against vaccines isn’t going to change anyone’s mind.”

          Nobody had “insulted” you, since that was your very first comment.

          I ask you again, what is bothering you so much that you used your very first comment here to insult the other commenters on this thread, including me?

          We were having a conversation. If you want to join it, fine. If not, that’s fine too, but don’t pretend that poor innocent polite little you has been “insulted”.

          Liked by 1 person

          • sooverit says:

            I did join the conversation and disagreed with you on the issue as well as with your disdainful attitude toward people who were disagreeing with you. If you were confident enough in your original blog post you probably wouldn’t need to jump on every single reply. That’s all that happened. Get over it. Finally, this blog is one of the smartest out there and I love it. I come here several times a day in fact. I just find your tone and immaturity to be so out of character and beneath this place I guess I was caught off guard.

            Like

            • stella says:

              You didn’t “disagree” by presenting an alternative view, you simply jumped on me criticized my tone, writing style, attitude etc, and that of anyone else who is in favor of vaccination. If you want to join the discussion, then put forth your ideas on the subject.

              You say I am disdainful. In what way have I expressed contempt? Am I not allowed to respond? I don’t have to “get over it”, as this is my blog and my post. You say you love this blog. As one of the eight blog founders, I have spent several years contributing to its success on a daily basis, as has every single person here. I’m sorry you don’t appreciate this post. Perhaps you can tell me specifically why that is. Quote a specific remark of mine, or comment of mine, that you disagree with, and why. I didn’t “jump on every single reply”, and it is a usual thing here for the blog poster to engage in the comment section, because discussion is what we are all about.

              You have an opportunity to express your opinions about vaccination, but so far haven’t said much about it, except that you won’t be forced to vaccinate (which I agreed with), and that “main stream” medicine isn’t perfect (like everything else that humans do). The rest has been criticism of me and other commenters with whom you disagree. If you have something specific to say that pertains to the topic, then say it, as others have done. So far, you haven’t done that. Maturity means that you can present your case. Do it.

              Liked by 2 people

    • stella says:

      “I never said I wasn’t worried about getting these diseases or that it isn’t a concern of mine and I think it is a pretty big jump as well as insulting to say I don’t care about the health of others….”

      You said in your first comment: “I’m not going to do ANYTHING just for the “greater good”…”

      In other words, you won’t be swayed by the fact that your decision might harm others, right?
      Further, since you feel safe to bypass vaccination, it is a logical assumption that you feel that the risk of side affects from vaccination are more likely than getting the disease itself. My comment is, again: The reason why you aren’t worried about getting the diseases is that they have been vanquished in large part because of the use of vaccines.

      Liked by 2 people

      • I’d be willing to bet there’s been a lot of ‘second guessing’ going on along our southern border and target cities over the past 6 months or so. It was fine to go along with the fad of no vaccines until the diseases start cropping up again.

        Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        Stella, with ebola and other viruses cropping up I think your post was very in tune with what concerns many of us. I don’t know how you guys do what you just had to defend and I admire all of you founders. Somehow I don’t think the beef was about vaccines at all. Perhaps we are shining sunlight where someone does not want it to shine and they are lashing out. I don’t think anyone on this thread should have sparked this outburst. Chin up. You got grace and grit. Wolverines!

        Liked by 1 person

      • ZurichMike says:

        Arguing with these people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good your understanding of the game, no matter how well-considered your moves are, the pigeon will crap all over the board, knock over the pieces, and the strut around claiming it has won.

        Like

  30. Engmikeymike says:

    Stella, Nice work! Good back-and-forth by all of you. Dr. Mike

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Rurik says:

    Stella,
    Thanks for drawing the necessary fire. Wednesday I got my flu vaccine updated. I have had ALL the standard vaccines except Measles, and that was because I got the measles before the vaccine was devised. Yes, the shot would’ve been preferable. I have also received shots for Plague, Yellow Fever, and Shingles. Thankfully never had to get Anthrax or rabies – and knocking on wood. Sadly, I’ve lost a couple friends because I won’t sign on to the immunization cause autism line. I want to sympathize, but those people have some deep denial issues.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Sam says:

    I’ve either been vaccinated for everything on that list or I had it, in the case of measles, mumps and chickenpox. I was a kid during the polio epidemics and I was vaccinated with both Salk and Sabin vaccines. I had a couple of friends in elementary school who had caught polio and were varying degrees of crippled because of it. I am all in favor of vaccinations. The diseases are so much worse than any mild reaction you might have to a vaccine. When my primary care doctor offers booster shots, I say “Yes!”

    The vaccine deniers are a ready made pool for a revival of these dread diseases. Even a localized epidemic can mean a disease mutates and endangers all of us.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. michellc says:

    I was curious, because it’s been awhile since I had to worry about vaccines, what Oklahoma requirements are for school. I can’t remember if my kids had to have Hep A&B and I know they didn’t have to have Varicella(chickenpox), but everything else is the same. This doesn’t seem like an overload to me.

    5 DTP/DTAP
    4 IPV/OPV (polio)
    2 MMR
    3 Hep B
    2 Hep A
    1 Varicella

    Liked by 1 person

  34. Joe says:

    Interesting points of view. Allow me to add my own. Anyone who claims vaccinations aren’t, and haven’t been, beneficial to this society, is an idiot. However, anyone who believes everything .gov tells you about vaccines, is also an idiot. Many high level CDC folks have moved on to become high level Pharma Corp. folks. Hundreds of billions of dollars there. If you believe for a moment you will ever get the entire truth from that machine, you’re delusional.

    .Gov established a program to pay families/people who have been harmed by vaccines, did you know this? Did you also know it has shelled out nearly 3 BILLION dollars in damages? Why did .gov start this program? To make it impossible to sue the company’s that make vaccines. Which, is some ways, is understandable. You wouldn’t want the companies that make the vaccines sued out of business.

    It’s interesting to note that many of you speak of the flu vaccine, and your different experiences with it. But, some how, different experiences with vaccines aren’t possible in children? As with the flu vax, most have zero problems. But, some do. People react differently. So do kids.

    The simple fact that your government has a program that has paid nearly 3 Billion dollars out to families/people who have been harmed by various vaccines should tell you that they are not 100% safe. Is that a reason to not get them? Not necessarily. But, it is a reason to be distrustful of the information CDC tells you about them.

    My own experience? I have an 18-month old kid. The vax schedule was something like 25 shots in the first 12 months. That is insane. No way in hell would I do that to any child, whose immune system isn’t even fully developed. Does that mean she won’t get them? No. She will as they become necessary in her day to day life. I’m not particularly concerned about most of those diseases, as 1 or 2 cases every 20 or 30 years isn’t particularly concerning. Some are more pressing, obviously.

    In short, do your own research. It isn’t as black and white as Pro/Anti. As with all things, don’t drink the Kool-Aid, but don’t be a knucklehead, either. Look at the way Ebola has been handled and remember that CDC is the same organization that suggests vax schedules.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Great points. I think my attitude toward vaccines matches their performance – 99.9% trust and .1% distrust. Kind of a no-brainer, but time and humans will always kind the 0.1%, so expect a turn at the wheel of bad fortune eventually. Hopefully it’s just a sore shoulder for a day.

      Like

    • michellc says:

      I don’t know what state you’re in or what their required vaccinations are, but that 24 is what the CDC recommends. I looked up Oklahoma’s and know that if you give required that number is cut in half to 12 vaccines in the first year.

      I can understand people being cautious about new vaccines, the ones I really don’t understand are the vaccines that have a proven track record for decades such as Tetanus, whooping cough, polio, and mumps, measles and rubella.

      Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      Again, the Big Pharma and Big Gov bogeymen. Never has an industry been required to be more open and transparent before, during, and after a product comes to market. Can you give more specifics on the “hundreds of billions” and the “3 billion dollars” paid to families with damages arising from vaccines? Is that a single product? All products? A given timeframe, or since records have been kept? Again, another “argument” where a strawman of either/or options is presented, and the supposed rational middle ground as the solution. If the availability of pharma products were based on anecdotal evidence, nothing would be produced. If the vaccination schedule were so bad for children, wouldn’t we expect to see vast numbers of children with problems? The fact is, we don’t. And while there is no 100% safety guarantee for anything in this world — medicines we take, foods we eat, transportation we take — the alternatives for not getting vaccinated are far worse for you, your family, and everyone else who has to be forced to deal with your decision.

      Like

  35. chuckles49 says:

    Stella, thanks for all your extensive research and efforts. Although I disagree with some of your points, at least you’re trying to do some good. In the long run that’s what really counts. Keep up the good work! 🙂

    Like

  36. dep0828 says:

    As a medical professional who works in an internal medicine/pediatric office, I give vaccines all day long. I agree that the majority of them, the ones that were discovered before big pharmaceutical got in bed with our government, are necessary for the greater good. However, the new ones coming out like HPV, the yearly flu, even varicella, not only are pushed for the $ they bring in, bit they’re not well vetted. Likewise, unless you have a compromised immune system or some serious underlying factor, it’s not healthy to get these shots that only offer a temporary boost of immunity. We need exposure and recovery so that our own, more efficient immune system can build itself up.

    Like

  37. rashomon says:

    Well, this discussion have evoked much emotion. I leave CTH for a day and all heck breaks loose. Obviously, Stella, you found a nerve and brought out some who never expressed an opinion. Good job!

    I would suggest the discussion be revisited again. Much more info to be shared and THAT is the wonderful reward of visiting this site…never–ending unraveling of the human condition.

    Like

    • Apollo says:

      Agreed. This is an issue that needs more eyeballs in the conservative community.

      Like

    • stella says:

      Thanks, guys! The discussion started on the Ebola thread, and I thought it deserved its own forum. Lots of hot heads! I was pretty sure that would happen.

      I, too, believe that we need a variety of topics to discuss, as they come up (or as we think of them, in my case). You never know …….

      Like

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