Who Went First, IRS or DOJ ? – The Difference It Makes….

Yesterday we shared a potentially explosive new aspect to the IRS targeting of groups antithetical to the White House.   In essence Lerner’s attorney, William Taylor III, told a politico reporter that his client was responding to the DOJ’s request for information, not soliciting them.

Yes, there is good reason for people who have followed this story to feel as if it really wouldn’t, or couldn’t, or won’t make a difference.   Given the current state of political affairs a great deal of righteous frustration that nothing shall be done regardless of who initiated the illegal machination is not misplaced…..

Also, Yes, against the recent Cochran V McDaniel outcome in Mississippi this frustrated sentiment is justified, very justified.    And yes, the establishment GOP is just as opposed to the Tea Party as the establishment Democrats in this regard.   Yes to all of this…

However, it really does make a difference.

lois lerner 3eric_holder_ap1

If the DOJ initiated the inquiry to the IRS under the auspices of FBI investigation of 501(c)(4) group investigation -as the claim by attorney Taylor apparently makes clear- many of the outcomes toward the groups in question reconcile.

Take the example of “True The Vote”, and “Gibson Guitar”.  When both groups were under scrutiny they were visited by various federal agencies like:  the EPA, ATF, OSHA as well as IRS.

However, if the Department of Justice is the internal hub for all the various agencies to assemble their marching orders, then a very specific trail of known evidence is also possible based on outcomes.

lois lerner 2

The 21 CD ROM data sent by Lois Lerner (1.1 million pages) to the DOJ becomes the basis list for a comparison of consequence.

The data sent by Lerner not only included the 501(c)(4) groups, but also included 33 tax returns that included unlawfully disclosed private taxpayer information within the “Schedule B” which outlines the entities, the sponsors, and the contributors who associate with, contribute to, and participate in, the 501’s activity.

The “Schedule B” inclusion is illegal to be shared outside the IRS, and has been recognized as such by the Dept. of Justice.

However, those 33 Schedule-B lists create a data base of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people, groups and entities.   It is quite possible for external parties -lawyers for the affected parties- to use the list as a legal basis to judge whether they were specifically targeted.

Did the people, groups and entities on that list, encounter more federal agency scrutiny -in any capacity-  than a random sample of similarly constructed business interests external to the group?

This is a simply a math and probability analysis based on activity as an outcome to being on a list.

If a party increased it’s exposure to federal agency review or audit simply by being on the list, in the 2010 through 2013 time period (list held by the DOJ) the court(s) would have to find in favor of any argument the group was targeted.

irs koskinen

The legal terms “Adverse Impact” and “Disparate Impact” can be applied to any argument brought by a party against the federal government for targeting.   The increase in a parties risk of scrutiny as a consequence of being on the IRS list, illegally held by the DOJ, creates the evidence in favor of the argument.

Ironically the use of both Adverse Impact and Disparate Impact, as legal tools to evaluate outcomes, has been advanced by the Eric Holder DOJ as they applied this analysis toward groups they considered outside their ideology.   It would be ironic to use the preferred method of the DOJ against them.

Additionally, if we presume the appearance on the target list increases your exposure risk by even small percentages – the list created by the thirty three IRS Schedule “B’s”  would establish a class of litigants for civil actions against the IRS and DOJ for targeting.

The initial IRS inspector general report has already established and affirmed that targeting did occur.    So the first legal hurdle is crossed.

The subsequent congressional investigation has uncovered the illegal possession of the Schedule “B” IRS list given to the DOJ –  So the class is halfway to the second hurdle.

If any party can statistically prove, by looking at outcomes, that appearance on the list created a disparate likelihood for federal agency audit the second hurdle is cleared easily and you’re off to evaluate harm.

So while many observers of this recent discovery may want to dismiss it based on the facts they are frustrated, and we have a dysfunctional congress, there is good reason to hold faith and continue fighting the good fight to squash the bastards.

If Congress cannot get them, we can take them down in civil courts.


American Patriot

This entry was posted in 1st Amendment, Conspiracy ?, Dem Hypocrisy, Dept Of Justice, Election 2012, Election 2014, Election 2016, IRS, media bias, Notorious Liars, Obama re-election, Obama Research/Discovery, propaganda, Tea Party, Typical Prog Behavior, Uncategorized, White House Coverup. Bookmark the permalink.

24 Responses to Who Went First, IRS or DOJ ? – The Difference It Makes….

  1. Sharon says:

    So federal bureaucracies and agencies can be called to account in civil courts?

    Did not know that.

    Sundance, your willingness to break down both the basic argument and the latent “what’s the use” response rising from frustration is a fine thing. Sometimes I don’t even raise my hand because I figure that it’s asking too much to have my goofball requests for more clarification patiently responded to.


  2. czarowniczy says:

    “…for people who have followed this story to feel as if it really wouldn’t or couldn’t make a difference…”
    Oh I beg to differ, it can make a great deal of difference. To quote and update an old legal adage to current Obama/DoJ standards: ‘ when the facts are against you argue the law, when the law’s against you argue the facts, when they law and the facts are against you call your opponents racists’.
    ANY tiny loophole they can hammer a greased legal straight pin into will be sued to argue, delay, obfuscate and – they hope – give a progressive judge, owing or hoping to owe the Administration, a reason to toss the case. Easy example – Fast and Furious. The case is exactly where now? Had you or I have done that we’d have been a party favor in a Federal prison long ago. As they administer the law they feel they have the right to twist and break it at will. Tricks are for kids, silly rabbit.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. LetJusticePrevail" says:

    Here’s what causes my current headache:

    Since the law that established the “United States Office of the Independent Counsel “(apparently) expired in 1999, isn’t it now the “US Department of Justice Office of Special Counsel” that now has the sole authority to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate any potential misdeeds or misuse of power by an administration?

    Doesn’t this mean that Eric Holder has total control over who would investigate Eric Holder?


  4. jetstream says:

    The pressure is certainly building on Holder the past eight months. A House resolution H.Res. 411 to impeach Holder was introduced November 14, 2013 and is in committee. http://tinyurl.com/oxt2wgb
    Recent books have been published, exposing the egregious politicized weaponization of the DOJ by the Obama administration:

    Former Secret Service agent Bongino: Holder’s Justice Dept. is a ‘travesty’
    “…This Department of Justice is a Department of Injustice. It’s just sad what has happened — I’m stunned that more people have not come forward. Because I get, phone calls, emails, texts from people all the time, who — I cannot express to you the level of frustration amongst federal agents and administrative employees. People are really fed up with this administration and the way they politicize things. I think the DOJ is just the tip of the spear.” http://tinyurl.com/pdnn9hm

    Extortion: How Obama’s “Squeegee Man” Eric Holder Punishes Obama’s Political Enemies
    …Remember what happened to Gallup when they released some polls that weren’t pleasing to Obama, last year? All of a sudden, they were the subject of a DOJ investigation into their poll methodology…”Punish your enemies…” My God, Hannity’s right, we’re living in a Banana Republic. When are people going to wise up???
    Schweizer continued to say that “the top Republican financiers in 2012 were all subject to DOJ criminal charges.” Every one. “It’s shocking really unlike anything we’ve ever seen,” he added.
    “The top five positions at the DOJ beginning with Eric Holder were all campaign bundlers for the Obama Campaign. These Obama fund raisers were raising money to put Obama into power, and now are making decisions about who they are going to prosecute and who they’re not going to prosecute.” Schweizer called it ” melding of the DOJ and the campaign apparatus of the Obama campaign.” http://tinyurl.com/q2jp5jz

    And articles in major publications have been written as well. An article in Forbes lays out how many different federal agencies immediately targeted conservative groups after Obama made that famous statement “we’re going to punish our political opponents”:

    Obama’s Weaponization of Government
    There is a dangerous arrogance of power among the President and senior-level Democrats that should concern every American.
    Last week a senior United States Senator gave a speech stating that the IRS should be used to target and punish groups that disagree with the Democratic Party’s political agenda. Sen. Chuck Schumer stated, “…there are many things that can be done administratively by the IRS and other government agencies — we must redouble those efforts immediately.” Schumer was also one of a number of Democrat Senators who signed a 2012 letter to the IRS demanding they be more aggressive against conservative organizations. http://tinyurl.com/mzlwwxf

    Holder’s feet are tap dancing so fast, he is tripping himself up. We just have to make sure the music keeps playing.


    • P.Spinach says:

      Holy Squeegee, Batman. Eric Holder heading South, to Meh-hick-o to be at One with the drug lords. B Hussein to follow shortly along with kickin’ and screamin’ Val “whoever is against us will be punished” Jarret. Moochelle we’ll leave alone because she’ll be America’s affirmative action leave ‘er alone – as duly negotiated appeasement for black americans seeing how she was stereotypically USED by the HALF-WITS of mixed racial genes.


    • Wolf Moon says:

      Very nice – I did not know things were that rotten in DOJ. They are even worse than I thought.


  5. If you haven’t read this recently, it might be good for your morale. It sure was for mine. There is some mighty fine rhetoric there: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zenger/zenger.html


    • jetstream says:

      Thank you for the historical reminder. It is good to remember to man up, woman up, and soldier on in the face of overwhelming odds.
      Powerful summation by the defense attorney (who effectively promoted jury nullification as a tool against a corrupted tyrannical system that was targeting citizen protestors):

      (at your link)
      It is natural, it is a privilege, I will go farther, it is a right, which all free men claim, that they are entitled to complain when they are hurt. They have a right publicly to remonstrate against the abuses of power in the strongest terms, to put their neighbors upon their guard against the craft or open violence of men in authority, and to assert with courage the sense they have of the blessings of liberty, the value they put upon it, and their resolution at all hazards to preserve it as one of the greatest blessings heaven can bestow….

      The loss of liberty, to a generous mind, is worse than death. And yet we know that there have been those in all ages who for the sake of preferment, or some imaginary honor, have freely lent a helping hand to oppress, nay to destroy, their country…. This is what every man who values freedom ought to consider. He should act by judgment and not by affection or self-interest; for where those prevail, no ties of either country or kindred are regarded; as upon the other hand, the man who loves his country prefers its liberty to all other considerations, well knowing that without liberty life is a misery….

      Power may justly be compared to a great river. While kept within its due bounds it is both beautiful and useful. But when it overflows its banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemmed; it bears down all before it, and brings destruction and desolation wherever it comes. If, then, this is the nature of power, let us at least do our duty, and like wise men who value freedom use our utmost care to support liberty, the only bulwark against lawless power, which in all ages has sacrificed to its wild lust and boundless ambition the blood of the best men that ever lived….

      Liked by 1 person

  6. carterzest says:

    Thank you for breaking it down for us SD. I feel like Sharon much of the time, but, I find by immersing myself in your posts and wisdom, the lights turn on and I begin to “GET IT


  7. doodahdaze says:

    So how did OSHA, ATF, and EPA, know who to target? All at the same time. Whoever told them is the spider.


    • Wolf Moon says:

      I think it is reasonable to assume that these agencies – including the IRS – are not allowed to reveal that DOJ is driving the investigation. That would mirror the way NSA does not let people reveal that they have been talked to about things like wiretaps, email raids, etc. They gag the innocent bystanders and witnesses. I will bet that the IRS are being told by DOJ that they can’t talk. That explains the stonewalling.

      I think it’s all making sense now. Not only is the DOJ the logical origin – the behavior of the IRS now makes sense. The multiple trips to the White House are clearly for clarification in trying to fulfill highly problematic orders, which conflict with their normal workings. DOJ drives things, but in typical Obama one-way, top-down fashion, is unanswerable to the effects of its orders. Thus, IRS is forced to loop back to the White House, making sure that the top understands the implications of what DOJ is asking them to do. Little do they realize that this is always the price of deception from the top. Lower leaders are privy only to a selected portion of the plan, and their failures are a known price of that plan.

      So in some ways, the IRS may have tried to stay true to its non-political mission, but has been unable to out the DOJ as the source of the problem. IRS personnel simply cannot implicate DOJ, because they have been ordered not to reveal an “active investigation”.

      Congress should question the IRS relentlessly on DOJ aspects, until they get a straight answer.

      I think this provides insight into Lois Lerner’s psychology. This is why she claims she did nothing wrong. She is legally unable to reveal the DOJ investigation of conservatives, so she is being passive-aggressive, pretending to defend the administration, but really crying for help from “somebody” or “anybody”.


  8. Josh says:

    When I contribute to a candidate my name gets distributed (sold?) all over the place. I know that because of the mail I receive after making said contribution. I’ve always assumed that if I made a large enough contribution or if I were a “somebody” that I’d be getting special treatment as in “The Treatment”.


    • doodahdaze says:

      Elections should not be to determine who gets the spoils of a war giving the winner the right to pillage and loot the loser.


      • Josh says:

        You are correct, of course. I was thinking, in answer to your question above, though that certain people who contributed to certain campaigns were possible targets by the DOJ and others. Their ” target list” began somewhere.


  9. doodahdaze says:

    The selection should be of interest. It would be a waste of time to go after tiny anti-Obama organizations or donors. Someone would have to pick out the ones to aim the weapons of agency destruction at. Weaponizing Federal Agencies against political opponents is about as bad as it gets.


    • LetJusticePrevail" says:

      It’s a well known strategy to attack the strongest opponent(s) first. Once you knock down a champion, the followers quickly fall into line. It’s the “Gee, if they can do that to him, what chance do I have?” response.

      Much easier to win one battle that hundreds of little ones.


  10. peachteachr says:

    The $50,000 fine is just half of the story. The group will also receive attorney fees according to Cleata Mitchell who is representing several of these groups. Even though it’s taxpayer money, I am delighted by the court’s decision.


    • P.Spinach says:

      Better them, than B Hussein and company (wife, in-law and other hanger-ons), because they would spend it on frivolities just to get back at middle america – for god knows what chip-off-their-shoulder reason, really.


  11. deeperinfo says:

    When the Justice Dept received the files from the IRS that contained confidential information, what was their legal obligation to investigate, report and prosecute? If an employee of the Justice Dept did not do anything after having received confidential information what laws or internal rules were violated? Were they obligated to tell the injured parties that their privacy rights had been violated? Did they tell Lerner that they had received confidential information? Why didn’t they return it or destroy it? SInce they had requested the information themselves, were the required to report the violation to internal inveestigations?


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