Thursday Open Thread – November 8th

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but DELIVER US FROM EVIL.

For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever. Amen †

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176 Responses to Thursday Open Thread – November 8th

  1. ytz4mee says:

    Karl Denninger over at Market Ticker notes that the DJIA reacted to the news that the rating Agency Fitch threatened to downgrade the US unless they get serious about running deficits.

    Of course, this was all over the news today, right?

  2. Sharon says:

    A collapse is now inevitable. Spending will not shrink. Deficits will rise. Taxes will rise. Economic activity will fall. The debt death spiral will strangle economic activity, and ultimately the economy will implode. Societies themselves will likely be sucked into the abyss.

    For more hilarious details, read the whole article. I have several questions which rise out of my perfect willingness to believe that it will be as bad as they say, coupled with the fact that no one of the plethora of those spelling out our doom has provided info regarding things I’m just curious about. Perhaps some of our astute readers (historians or engineers or farmers) can shed some general light on some things.

    Hyper-taxation will never be enough since there will be less and less economic activity. Therefore, it is inevitable that our infrastructure will deteriorate to the point of dysfunction.

    1. What is the length of life for our bridges (interstate? state highways? county highways?)when no maintenance is done? I realize the length of life might be longer than expected due to much lighter use; but, on the other hand, that might be offset by military vehicles clumping up and down the interstates at high speed.

    2. How long until municipal water systems cannot be jury-rigged to continue to provide clean water?

    3. As the economic implosion proceeds with job losses, those who fall off the top shelf and lose their homes will move into the homes of those who fall off the next shelf down? Lots of people are going to end up living in the open–ala Grapes of Wrath. I’ve already heard first hand stories of a woman with several children living in her car in our area. I questioned the services person who told me with rather closely, and asked for an accounting as to “HOW? WHY?” She said all the public social services “safety nets” in Oregon are completely maxed out and simply have no more room. So even if individuals are receiving aid of all kinds, doesn’t matter. There is no room.

    4. The stores will be empty of goods within 48-72 hours at some point. Can the Moms and Pops of yesteryears make a comeback out of sheer need? It’s my opinion that those who’ve been working their butts off for decades and know how to build stuff (*&#)W@(*#$*&#$ to you, obama) will be the ones who will build again.

    Well, my questions are so poorly phrased, I’m afraid, because I really don’t understand the economic/engineering/supply & demand pace, etc. and all the interactions….so I don’t understand exactly how the collapse will manifest itself in literal situations. (I’m not so concerned about the speed of it–I just don’t understand exactly WHAT the general time frames of what is going to happen.)

    The conversations on this so far are sort of like, “Hey, you’re all gonna die.” And that’s quite different than the doctor saying, “We’ve got the test results back. You have 12 months because you have this disease and here is how you can expect it to manifest itself about 6 months from now.” Or something.

    • Ad rem says:


      Thank you for finding this! This one paragraph says it all for me… the Dark Ages 2.0…..Cloward & Piven realized:

      “We are headed into an economic dark age, where standards of living will continue to decline and may collapse. Societies and civilizations will also regress.”

      • Sharon says:

        There’s a couple more at AT just like it. No cheeriness any more. No sirreeee! Hit the slides and enjoy the rides! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (With music provided by Rumpole2—which I haven’t checked out yet—couple more hours it’ll be the middle of the night here, then maybe I will….. 8O )

        • Ad rem says:

          I just forwarded both articles (yours and Yatz’s) to my DH ….via the iPad that never leaves his side. If I’m going to enjoy a sleepless night full of sadness mixed with rage….I want company. (Proper emoticon for this situation currently unobtainable.)

          • texan59 says:

            Y’all are full of cheer this mornin’. Take a look at the Wiemar (sp) Republic. Most likely scenario would be a few years of he!! and then a reset would begin. A lot of pople will starve to death, everything in the infrastructure system would have to be rebuilt and we would probably be wearing Mao jackets and those really cool hats they have over in China. On a good note, I now have an iPhone. :shock:

        • rumpole2 says:

          There is always a song for EVERYTHING! :D

          How about “Long Live Obamazania”

          • Sharon says:

            Good grief…just got 49 seconds into that and realized I’m going to have at it tomorrow when I can kick the volume up!! I’m intrigued. Hope I don’t end up just being shocked or something. You’ve got sort of the look of a scoundrel about ya, y’know in yer avatar…not sure how much I should trust……. 8O

            • rumpole2 says:

              The Avatar pic is Richard Burton.. a fellow South Welshman (enamoured of American women) lol

              I have no qualms about NSFW stuff… but would put a warning :D
              Nothing At all riske in that song… trust me ;)

              • Sharon says:

                You see how movie-deprived I am!! Sheesh. Oh, well, if I live long enough I’ll start to recognize him on sight. (in photos, I mean–I do know he’s attained room temp…. :) )

                • rumpole2 says:

                  It’s not obvious who it is in that picture, and Richard Burton is hardly current.
                  The picture was intended to make a point about the right to smoke… smoking (tobacco) is all but criminalised in NZ :D

                  • Sharon says:

                    Really! I’m sorry that NZ got hit with the stupid stick in that regard. I’ve never smoked, but from time to time, in MN, when it was 20 below zero and some poor retail clerk was huddled outside the store’s doors on his break having a cigarette at 11 pm, I would tell him I thought it was ridiculous. For what that’s worth. Legislators are such idiots sometimes.

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    I know… smoking is bad for me…. my choice :)
                    And I was always aware of others so would not smoke in confined space where there were other people.
                    They are thinking of banning smoking in outdoor places… banned in workplaces, all public buildings. Banned in hospitals.. not even a smoking room anywhere.. and now hospital grounds which may well be acres of open space. it’s already banned in bars but they want to ban outside areas which many bars have provided. And of course the TAX continues to be piled on. But then people lobby that those on government benefits are penalised by the extra tax on ciggies.. so benefits are increased… etc.

                  • Sharon says:

                    I’ve always thought it pretty transparent that they don’t seem to want to take the step of making the product illegal. No. Let’s just make the USE of it illegal. Not the production. not the sale of it. Just the use of it. And they get by with it obviously.

                  • waltherppk says:

                    That seedy kiwi rumpole2 and me are possibly brothers by a different mother …jokers and veteran cosmic rockers….same tangled mess of stars in that mountain fogged head he got as i got in mine :D …maybe there was mixing too much sky with the clay when the almighty was about his work making what we use for a brain, or living in a temple converted to a pool hall too often ….just a guess …but I confess

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    Thanks for the toons Walther :D

                    The Joker song “Not available in your country”… I guess It’s Obama cutting off coms between NZ and USA.
                    (I am playing a different copy) :D
                    A couple of songs in return :D

    • rumpole2 says:

      I expected some sort of Goods and Service Tax (GST) is coming your way?
      I did hear it mentioned before O got elected in 2008… perhaps it will happen this term.
      Socialists love it.. I saw it come to NZ.. and spent a year in Singapore when they introduced it. It really is analogous to the situation of the frog in a pan of water.. raise the temperature slowly and he never knows what hits him.
      Easy to convince the masses that some small percentage (2 %) added to every transaction will be painless, but provide so much to the government to do good works.. Then the percentage can be raised without anybody noticing. NZ now pays 15% on EVERY transaction… (nobody even noticed the rate being upped 4 times)…. food, gas the lot. We even have to pay the 15% GST when paying Rates (local taxes)… go figure that!!! A tax levied on paying a tax? :D

      • Sharon says:

        Is that similar to the VAT (value added tax)?

        • rumpole2 says:

          I think VAT is what they call it in UK (Europe). Us Antipodeans called it GST and I know Singapore copied our model.

          In Australia it is complex… they had to exempt a lot of things.. food etc.
          I don’t know all the details.

          In NZ the sheeple just accepted that it was “fairer” to levy it on absolutely EVERYTHING. Every purchase, every transaction. But Government wanted that way because it is much harder to avoid.
          I do take some pleasure in cheating when I can.. any work I have done around the house is “cash” no paperwork, no GST. Otherwise it is almost impossible to avoid.

          • stellap says:

            They call it GST in Canada too. There is the National GST, plus provincial taxes. I think they backed off the rate in a couple of the provinces last year????

            • ytz4mee says:

              There used to be two separate levies – PST (Provincial Sales Tax) and GST (Federal Goods and Services Tax) but now it’s combined into HST (Harmonized Sales Tax).
              In Ontario right now it’s 13%, and you pay it on everything. On the legal bill to settle my Dad’s estate. On the work done by the contractors to fix the house for sale. On the car repair bill. It’s a tax not just on goods ….. but services.

              On top of the ridiculous excise taxes.

              • rumpole2 says:

                We have other taxes on goods.. excise (sin taxes) for instance… and 15% GST still comes on top of that!!
                So for instance the tax on cigarettes is 100% (doubles the price… I am guessing, it’s probably more than that) and GST is levied on the total price.. so levied on the “legitimate” price as well as on the tax. You can’t make this stuff up.
                Petrol (gas) already has several taxes imposed and again… when you buy it at the pump.. GST is an EXTRA 15% levied on the legitimate price as well as the government tax!!!

                • ytz4mee says:

                  You are right. I forgot about that. Yes, ciggies and alcohol already have huge sin taxes slapped on them, and then the HST is slapped on again at check-out. And huge sin taxes for having the audacity to have a “luxury car” like an SUV. Apparently just success is a “sin”.

    • GracieD says:

      Sharon, I spoke with some of my political peeps, and they are not optimistic.  Roads and bridges around here will not last more than a few years, due to the extreme heat in the summer. DOT is always working on the Interstate in the summer to repair the buckles in the roadway. As for Muni Water Systems…my guess is not long. Thankfully living in the Swamp, we can drill our own well if need be. As for grocery resupply, that is the one thing that concerns me. This Cajun can head into the Swamp and get most of the food that is needed. Not everyone is as fortunate as we are, with the abundant Natural Resources that we have in Louisiana. I am blessed that my home is paid for, so I have my home. What those who are not so fortunate as we are will do? I do not know. I pray for our Country, but I am ready for what might happen.

      • cajunkelly says:


        You and I are thinking alike. Ditto on the resources we have here in LA. DH and I are in preservation mode. Our home is paid for, but we’re not in the location we’d prefer when the poop hits the prop. We’re liquidating assets, putting this house up for sale and moving deeper into the cypress and pines. The driving factor in buying a new place is *NO MORTGAGE*.

        Dad owns the ideal spot…very defendable, lots of acreage. If said poop hits prop before we can carry out our plan, his place is the planned family fort. He even has a well, so water wouldn’t be a problem. There is plenty of space to garden, pastures to raise beef, pork, chickens, etc. and we were all raised knowing how to do these things. There is about 800 acres immediately behind his house…swamp and wood land…so hunting would be prime.

        Yes, those living in the rat mazes of cities will suffer most. I think often of those NYC apartments. Hell they don’t know what a chest freezer is, and they buy groceries for one or two days at a time. And it doesn’t have to be as drastic as NYC. Where DH and I lived in Florida it was much the same.

        • flaladybug says:

          My family is in NW Florida near 2 rivers. My husband said last night that it has always been clear to him that this is the one place he can take care of us no matter what happens “out there”!! We have a garden…water pump…2 chest freezers full of food. We have recently begun to stock pile ammo and other supplies for hunting and fishing! Venison has replaced beef and we are mostly self reliant now. When the $#!t hits the fan….COUNTRY FOLKS CAN SURVIVE!!

        • GracieD says:

          We are going to look for property in the Basin tomorrow.

      • ctdar says:

        GracieD, regarding the bridges, just mention to your officials I95’s Mianus River Bridge, CT. About 30 years ago, just after I finished hs, late at night @130am, a section of this huge bridge in Greenwich fell 70+ft into the river below taking 2 cars & 2 tractor trailers. The bridge is very close to the NY border so I actually knew some hs buddies coming home from the bars that night. By the grace of God the cars directly after those poor souls saw their tail lights disappear in the dark and managed to stop preventing any other deaths. CT is probably still paying off the hefty lawsuits that were enhanced after learning that neighbors had reported to the authorities for months of the strange creaking and whistling noises coming from bridge area that were loud enough to hear above the traffic din. I found a video about it below, show them this and may help on the maintenance of your bridges.

    • stellap says:

      If you want to know where the country is headed, take a look at Detroit. So far the water supply is okay, but for how long? One of the topics in the Federal trial against the ex-mayor and his cronies is that they were using the water department as their private piggy bank. The city was providing all of, and is still providing some electric service, in the city. Service would go down in peak times, street lights not maintained etc.

      • texan59 says:

        About the only good thing about everything going to hellina handbasket is that eventually crime WILL go down. After the roads go to pot and no one can afford gas, the crime will begin to localize and eventually the thugs will start starving cause we know they ain’t knowin’ how to grow no vegetables. The likka store will prolly have run out of Mooch’s vegetables and likka too. :evil:

      • texan59 says:

        For some reason, I’m not nearly as intimidated when a gang-banger rolls by on one of these. :D

      • ragnar says:

        Where are we heading?
        1. Beware of the “Christmas Package.” You will soon hear the looters start babbling about a “Package” to avoid the dreaded “Fiscal Cliff.” It will be package this and package that. The cliff is an actual 10% spending cut. The package we will get for Christmas is a tax increase now with some reductions in spending increases in a few years. Add a few reductions in your tax deductions and Merry Christmas!

    • ytz4mee says:

      Sharon, there have been people living in their cars in So Cal for quite some time now. I remember it being on the news quite a bit; that they are allowed to park overnight in state parks with public restrooms in Santa Barbara, for example, and the parking lots are patrolled at night so people have some level of safety.

      There has been a growing tent city in Sacramento, CA for years, too. The residents labeled it “Obamaville” but those signs are quickly taken down.

      This apparently is the “new normal” for lots of people, and has been for quite some time. Many people quite correctly point out that this is a Depression, but we don’t see the soup lines because we have EBT cards. However, Wal-mart is swamped with frantic shoppers at 12:01 midnight as soon as the EBT cards are refilled.

      And there was a short-lived TV series about the crumbling infrastructure in the US, where engineers would go and inspect and explain how dangerous it is. I think it was when everyone still bought into the “shovel ready” meme, and it was to gin up support for the “need” for the stimulus, but of course the money never made it to this much needed projects. The Tappan Zee bridge is ready to collapse into the river any day now, according to the show. Fear p0rn!

      Of course, now that Dear Leader has brought peace and harmony across the land, there is no need for such lies to be spread! Memory hole!

      • ragnar says:

        Maybe there will be a market for survival cars. Outfitted to live in.

      • boricuafudd says:

        I remember a trip I took to Las Vegas on vacation, our family decided to drive to LA see the Walk of Fame, Hollywood that sort of thing, since it was a couple of hours drive from Las Vegas. I had been up late at the slots and my wife was driving on I-15 the main artery connecting CA to NV in the area, and had fallen asleep, the minute we passed the stateline of NV into CA the car started to make noises and it was like we were on an unpaved road, so much so that it woke me up. I thought my wife had run off the road. The road on the CA side was in such bad shape, I wondered if we had left the Interstate.
        The road did not improve until we got to Barstow and then only slightly. I read a lot of Victor Hanson, and he talks a lot about the crumbling infrastructure in CA, it was not until that moment that I realized how bad things were.

    • michellc says:

      1.That’s going to kind of depend on how well the bridge was built. There are some of our bridges that will outlast us all, there are some that don’t make it 10 years. There is also another little secret that doesn’t get a lot of coverage and that’s some of our bridges are living on a wing and prayer right now.
      As often as a major highway in my state is being tore up and replaced, I would guess our roads are going to be huge holes that can swallow a car in no time.

      2.That’s a question I asked our rural water guy(we have a well as well, but of course it requires a lot of electricity, but we can always do it the old fashioned way and have the stuff to do it with where we hand crank a bucket up.) and he said that depends on a lot of factors, how long can they pay salaries? How long can they pay the electric bill for all the water pump stations? How long can the electric companies pay salaries to repair lines, etc? How long can power plants pay salaries and afford to keep them running?
      There is though some pills you can buy that you can add to your water that is supposed to purify it. But the bigger problem will be can they get the water pumped to you at all?

      3.I’ve talked to some bankers about this and several have told me if the housing crisis gets worse, people will be able to live in their houses long after foreclosure, there just won’t be enough manpower to force them out. Many of these also believe there will be hyper-inflation and that the banks will be the hardest hit because credit will be useless and the dollar will be almost useless and I’ve had them point me to other countries’ history of hyper-inflation where farmers were selling off a cow or a few dozen eggs and being able to pay off their entire loans.

      4.I think eventually that will happen, where the Mom and Pop general stores would make a come back, but at first I think it would be total chaos and preppers and farmers will be having to fight to keep what they have.

      Of course this all speculation and guessing and the economists I’ve read and talked to all say they can’t pinpoint the exact time, or exactly how it will fall into place. Most of them talk about what happened in other countries in the past.

      What I do know is during our own great depression, people suffered and died, many from starvation and then it was uncommon for someone to not own a gun or not know how to hunt. There were way more farmers and rural folks then.

      • ragnar says:

        I am trying to make a wood fire powered water distiller out of a old pressure cooker. You can put any kind of water in it and get a few gallons a day of pure distilled water. You have to put a copper coil where the weight is on the lid to cool the steam. Then the water drips out in to your jug. All you need is a small fire to boil the water. I got the pressure cooker at Goodwill.

        • stellap says:

          If you don’t need it for water, you can always make some ‘shine to sell or barter!

          • michellc says:

            My Granny’s book has instructions on making moonshine and beer. I never saw my Granny take a drink in her life and asked my Mom how she knew how to make it. She said it was common for people who didn’t drink it to make it and trade it during the depression. She said the rural folks mainly bartered and every now and then there would be a man who came along with flour, salt, sugar, etc. and would trade it for the moonshine and beer. Then he took it and sold it in town.

          • ragnar says:

            That might attract revenoor’s.

        • michellc says:

          Folks are really going to have to think about water. Not just clean water. Somebody has to keep those pumps up and running and they have to have electricity to keep them up and running.
          I remember at our last place which we were on just rural water thinking man it will be great during another ice storm, we’ll at least have water unlike the well, which required a generator all to itself that we did not have. Then about 8 hours after we lost electric, we had no water. The water department said they’re generator failed and were working on getting a portable generator out to our pump station. I had never really thought about it before then, but was like yeah I guess the water doesn’t magically appear. lol

          We have the well and we have the lake within walking distance. We’ll survive as far as food and water goes, even if all of our backup plans for power to keep our freezers going fails. We’ve built a smokehouse, have a basement, my Granny taught me as a small child how to dry meat and thankfully she wrote all kinds of old ways down for all us in a book to refresh my memory. We have rabbits, ducks, turkeys, chickens, goats and cows(I’ve never ate a goat, but if I’m hungry I’m sure I would gladly eat We save back seeds every year and have a bunch of old man power implements if the time comes we can’t get fuel. In addition we have all kinds of wild deer and turkeys around here.
          I’ve been buying up extra bags of flour and sugar and putting in the freezer, my Mom said flour was the hardest thing to come by during the depression. A neighbor down the road has bees and we already trade. I keep him in supply of fresh eggs and he keeps me in supply of honey.

          Now all of that is assuming the Obamas and Jarrett don’t locate us and steal our food.

          • cajunkelly says:


            As I mentioned above, Dad’s place has a well, *and* a free flowing stream (forgot about that)….he has a humongous generator as well.

            He came close to selling the acreage that has the stream a couple of years ago. Ain’t happening now.

            • michellc says:

              Tell him to start looking for the old parts where he can turn his well into an old hand drawn well if needed due to no power. I don’t know what all it takes other than the rope and bucket, but my husband bought everything he says we needed at auctions and yard sales.
              We have to remember there may be no gas to power the generators.

              My husband built some kind of generator that is wood powered, they set it all up and generated enough power with it to keep our freezers running. Don’t ask me how, all of that stuff was over my head before, during and after it was built.
              We have a wood stove for heat and I bought an old wood cook stove at an antique store that my husband put in his shop and hooked the vent up to it. He’s been using it for heat as well out there. I finally fried an egg and some bacon on it, to just see if I could. I haven’t tried baking in it. You want to talk about hot though, Lordy I hope it doesn’t come to having to cook on that thing. It’s a novelty now though for my husband who shows it to everyone and tells them he makes me go out there and cook his meals. lol

          • ragnar says:

            My Mom has a well with a pitcher pump you have to prime. But the water is full of iron. It is cool when it comes but has a taste of iron to it. Of it gets on the wall it leaves an orange stain.

            • michellc says:

              You can take a lot of the iron taste out of it by putting it in the fridge. My grandparents had iron water in Arkansas and that’s what they did, all of the iron settles to the bottom of the jar. I could still taste it though, but it apparently won’t kill you as just about everyone around them had iron water as well and most of them have been born and raised on it.

              We actually have two wells, one is sulphur water, we use it to water the animals and the garden, it stinks to high heaven but it also helps to repel insects.

              • ragnar says:

                I had a place with a sulpher water well once. It was awful.

                • michellc says:

                  The animals don’t mind and neither do the veggies. lol

                  My husband’s aunt had sulphur water and the first time I went to her house I thought man someone has some stinky poop, you can smell it all over the house. Then when we sat down for dinner, my iced tea smelled and tasted funny. I thought crap they have poopy water. Then my husband told me when we left it was sulphur water and that all of his family who lived in that area had gotten used to it and didn’t taste it or smell it but that it was perfectly safe to drink.
                  Better them than me, I could never get used to it.

          • stellap says:

            Check out our “Survival Guide” (linked over on the right side of the page).

        • cajunkelly says:

          QQ! My aunt gave me a *five gallon* pressure cooker years ago. It’s in the attic and I was thinking I needed to throw it in the yard sale I’m gettin ready to have.

          Now now!

      • stellap says:

        My mother told me that during the depression, family members moved back to the family farm when they lost jobs. They all grew up on the farm, had a well, knew how to plant and harvest and take care of livestock.

        • michellc says:

          I have people all the time who can’t understand why we have such an assortment of farm animals and think I’m crazy for canning and freezing all summer. I tell them what if? We won’t go hungry and if it never happens then the fresh food is night and day difference from the store bought stuff.

          • stellap says:

            When I was a kid we always had a big garden, plus fruit trees, grapes, raspberries, strawberries etc. My mom canned and froze our produce, and we bought 1/4 beef for our freezer. Also kept chickens.

            ADD: Almost forgot. Our next-door neighbor raised fruit as a hobby (lots of varieties of cherries, plums, peaches, apples, gooseberries), plus he kept bees, so we always had fresh honey. We had apricots, apples and plums.

            • michellc says:

              We used to have apple trees, I miss them. We do have a pear tree and a peach tree though. We have several pecan trees and two walnut trees, so we have nuts.

              We have mostly oak trees where I’m at now and tons of acorns. Apparently you can eat acorns but it takes a process to be able to eat them. I read about how the Indians used acorns one day and wrote it all down as a last resort if I had to eat them. I hope it never gets that bad, acorns just don’t sound real appetizing.

              At the bottom of the hill we have some wild blackberries, I picked a bunch of them this year and made some blackberry jelly and a few cobblers and froze a bunch.
              We also planted strawberries this year, but we didn’t get enough to put back. My son and husband eat them too fast.

  3. stellap says:

    Don’t know about this website, so not sure if this is true:

    UPDATE: Now told this is not legitimate.

    • ctdar says:

      Idk if that was true than why wouldnt they be granted a delay as states were given for interrupted service and long lines?
      Future elections should be up to family & friends to get ballot applications to their loved ones serving stop depending on govt to do the right thing.

      • stellap says:

        Btw, I’ve been assured that this info is “ok”.

        • ctdar says:

          I believe it, i just don’t understand the lack of outrage from the congress……

          • Sharon says:

            You don’t understand–really? It’s ok with Congress. Just as it’s ok with Congress that there hasn’t been a budget for five years. Not meaning to poke at you, my friend, but it is what it is. Just another manifestation of the fact that it IS ok with them. All of it.

            If I’m wrong, they’re gonna have to speak up a little louder, because I’m sure not hearing any objections.

            • ctdar says:

              Oh I know, i just meant it still boggles the mind the self absorption of most of congress.
              I’m still so disgusted, disappointed and just sad over the outcome of Tuesday. I can’t even call it an “election” because it wasn’t.

              • Sharon says:

                In August and September, when we were in family discussions I would pose the possibility in this way, “If obama takes the election……” said very calmly, mind you. I never said “if he wins.” And I will never say “he won.” He didn’t He took it.

    • texan59 says:

      “Tracking invoices show the ballots sat in a warehouse for a month, then they were accidentally labeled as ammunition and shipped to Afghanistan.”

      It’s an accident when one vehicle runs into another vehicle. :evil:

  4. stellap says:

    Just an informal measure of the mental depression overtaking the conservative community – very few new entries posted over at since early last night.

    • texan59 says:

      Mornin’ Pat. I think everyone is flat burnt out. My tank is near empty as I’m sure most folks are pretty much the same. :oops:

      • ragnar says:

        I am having fun prepping up. It is better than moping around. I figger we still have at least 6 or 8 months to get prepared for the Obama depression. I am thinking that they will be able to kick the can a little with the Chrismas Package. I am over politics. Waste of time at this point.

  5. ctdar says:

    Winter nor’easter came in yesterday an hit east coast with 6-10 inches snow & rain mix. Big sign outside FEMA offices in ny area:
    “FEMA closed due to storm”
    Nice, thanks Cuomo, bloomberg, people of NY, long island, staten island, still suffering 10 days after storm Sandy get kicked again while those that are supposed to be in charge take another day off.
    Glad Obama is keeping on top of this

  6. texan59 says:

    Just heard that Ruger stock went up 6% yesterday and S&W up 10%. Who’da thunk it. :shock:

    • cajunkelly says:

      I shopped for several new toys yesterday…Glock 26 is on my Christmas list.

      I imagine that DirtCheap is a busy place this week as well.

  7. texan59 says:

    Since I’ve been sitting around here with one of my tin-foil chapeau’s on, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking. Has anyone else thought about this?

    Sometime in late 2013 or early 2014, Uncle Joe is gonna get real, real sick. He will be unable to fulfill the job requirements and will retire to his estate in DE and start playing golf with Chriss Dodd again. Since a VP can be appointed by the Preezy, one Hildebeest Clinton will be named to replace Uncle Joe. She then has nearly three years to try out the furniture at the Naval Observatory, make a few bilious speeches and go to several funerals of our former allies. Then, viola’, it’s time for the 2016 elections. Think about it before you comment. Here’s how it’s done. I know this is from Slate, but I checked a couple other sites. This is how it’s done. Machiavelli would be proud. :evil:

  8. texan59 says:

    Just found this over on the FB. I always love a good poem. :D


    • ragnar says:

      Not just four. There is no way to elect a conservative in the future. Demographics tell the tale. Fundamental change has come. Now is the time to plan and prep. I am convinced politics is futile. Resistance is the key. Romney was the last gasp of the GOP. They will now move left, if they already were not left. The battle will be the 99% fighting over the scraps thrown by the 1% of top Party Members. Democrat Party Members. It will be like a massive Mardi Gas. The elite Democrats throwing beads to the adoring masses.

  9. Auntie Lib says:

    Ok, Treepers!!! I have caught up on much needed sleep and feel about 73% human.

    Let the libtards celebrate their victories. Instead of bemoaning our losses – which were horrendous! – we needs must begin to rebuild our country FROM THE GROUND UP!!!! What if each and every one of us made a commitment to hold some kind of political office or serve on some kind of governmental panel or board – starting right now??? We could change the educational system by taking over school boards. Get local spending under control by serving on city and county planning boards, commissions, and councils. If there is one lesson to take away from this election, I think it is that change comes slowly, from the bottom up. The %$^(^) mess we find ourselves in didn’t happen four years ago – it has been building up for over a century. We can’t change it in one or two elections. We have to fight on many fronts now to hold back the immediate crisis, but it is equally important that we begin creating the new Republic of the United States of America. Anyone with me????

    Viva la Resistance!!!!

    • ragnar says:

      I am. My first step is banning all so called news from my tv by blocking all news channels. ALL News channels. Internet only for me.

    • Auntie Lib says:

      Actually, I think one of the most important things we have to do is get the LSM to realize how far left they are. The only way to do that is to stop watching them. But here’s the rub – they are part of the cable companies’ packages. So the next best thing is to stop advertising on those channels. Contact the businesses that you support and let them know that you won’t be watching ABC, NBC, CBS and their affiliate stations, so if the business wants to sell you something they should be advertising on _____________. When viewership and the ad revenues go down, the cable companies will drop them.

  10. texan59 says:

    While we are licking our wounds and shaking our heads, there were a few bright spots out there.

  11. ragnar says:

    I have an Imac with airport. I am trying to figger out if I can cancel cable and view selected internet programs on my tv screen. I have a nice new SONY 32″ flat screen.

  12. maggiemoowho says:

    Hello All,

    Just checking in, we were on vacation. I missed all of you on election day and I can’t stress just how much. Please remember these words of warning if anyone decides to book a cruise over Election Day. Do not book on a ship that only airs CNN & ABC. I have no hair left and no voice from yelling at the tv screen for the past few days. Not a word about Benghazi the entire time. I’m so sad and scared for our Country. We live in a very selfish world. Life is made to easy for most and most don’t appreciate their Freedom or those who fought and died so they can have their Freedom.

  13. cajunkelly says:

    This is a response to a video over on Breitbart, regarding the idiots celebrating in the streets and bragging that obama will not support Israel, calling obama the “angel of peace”.

    While I cringe at the very idea of non-legal means to push back against what is surely coming…THINK about what this man is saying regarding the 50%. Take away all the angry and non-PC rhetoric (if you must…personally I don’t give a flying freak anymore about PC) and look at the base information here. WE have a distinct advantage over the other 50% when it comes to survival.

    In my innocent foresight, back on the original 9/11, this was my mindset when I looked at DH, with eyes as big as baseballs, and said “honey I want to go home, back to my roots, where I *know* we have a greater chance of survival”. He, with his not so innocent wisdom looked at me, smiled, and said; “I’ve just been waiting for you to voice that desire. I’m with you and you are right. I’ll turn in my resignation notice tomorrow. You call the movers. We’ll be out of here in 2 weeks.”

    The 2nd Revolution is coming! We’ve got 50% of the hardworking/producers in the country on our side and you Libs got the other 50% made up of freaks, fruits, illegals, dope smokers, pagans, felons, environmental wackos, more freaks, sodomites, abortionists, anarchists, Union thugs, union teacher thugs, liberal wackos on MSM TV, freeloaders gaming the system through welfare, food stamps and social security fraud, Liberal Hollywood freaks, militant lesbian feminists, poverty pimps, Muslim extremists in our military, University collectivism of socialist utopianism thinking, liberal judges, Obdumer, and Plugs biden and all the other radical liberals in Congress. I say they can have the entire north of the country and the left coast. They hate us so much we’ll just fence them in and they can destroy themselves. We are tired of paying for all their evil slothful ways!

    • michellc says:

      I’ve already started my own personal revolution, I’m cutting way back on what I buy from stores. I can’t stop them from getting my taxes, we have to make a living for as long as possible. But I don’t have to buy much. I’ve learned how to make soap out of goats milk, trying to get the shampoo part down and then forget store bought soap and shampoo.
      A friend of mine makes lotion and she’s going to teach me how to do that in a few weeks.

      Too bad I don’t know how to make toilet

      The majority of my food comes off my own land.

      For Christmas my daughter wants a new handgun and I found what she wanted on Craigslist and bought it off an individual. My son wanted a new bow, I found one of those on Craigslist as well, some guy bought it and never used it. Then my daughter’s fiance wanted ammo and I found that on a gun board.

  14. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Must read article by Ferfal, a guy who survived the Argentinian collapse:


  15. cajunkelly says:

    Two new phrases being repeated often in our house;

    Starve the Beast


    Going Galt

  16. cajunkelly says:

    Someone refresh my memory;

    Who was it who first (2 years ago or so?) brought up the handy idea of seizing our 401k funds? IIRC they would then dole them out to us on an as-needed basis upon retirement.

    Was that ValJar?

  17. Josh says:

    The Oath “our” representatives take:
    Oath of Office
    I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend
    the Constitution of the United States against all
    enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true
    faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this
    obligation freely, without any mental reservation or
    purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully
    discharge the duties of the office on which I am
    about to enter: So help me God.

    • Sharon says:

      What rips at my heart is that it is glaringly obvious that many of them have huge mental reservation. obama is one who articulated his reservations in a public interview back in the late nineties. I have maintained for some years now that very, very few of them actually take the oath of office. They say it. But they do not take it, without mental reservation. Big difference that really matters.

  18. Josh says:

    Great news during a dark time!

    Michele Bachmann wins re-election in a tight race
    G-d bless the voters of Minnesota!!!

    “reddarin•2 hours ago−
    The RNC tried to leave MB out to hang but she still pulled off reelection. I bet Mark Levin had a lot to do with it.”

  19. Ms.Tee says:

    Ok Treeps, it’s official: Ms. Tee has officially given into the conspiracy theories…

    October 2012

    Nov 2012

    • WeeWeed says:

      Things that WILL make you go, “hmmmmmmm…..” The Weed shall be RINO hunting from here on out. These bastards only THINK they hate the TEA party…… I shall do my best to make the ones I can choke on it. NO money for the Republican party. NO amnesty. NO more msm, FOX included. And I’m just getting started. :evil:

    • ytz4mee says:

      Yep. A Washington insider told me back in Feb that it was “hopeless” and that Romney would be the nominee, he would lose, and Obama would move to close the loop on some of the details that were left unfinished. He actually refused to get involved this cycle, he was so disgusted by the whole thing. They’ve already started the trial balloons about a Jeb run. I had to call him election night and admit he was right.

      • Patriot Dreamer says:


      • michellc says:

        I think just maybe we’re played as fools by all of them and sometimes I don’t think it’s always the candidate playing you for a fool and it’s his/her team who are the people pulling the strings and playing the candidate as well.

        I’ve made a new rule if we ever have elections again, hell I guess I should add even if we all survive if the government tries to steal our guns and food, that I will just stop voting for lifetime politicians. A very stupid person told my husband today he couldn’t believe Oklahoma elected an owner of a plumbing company to the house and that Oklahoma should be embarrassed. He told him, you should be embarrassed that you’re so ignorant about the history of this country. He asked what the hell that had to do with what he said and he told him to figure it out. I wonder if he figured it out yet?
        Probably not, because his public education probably never told him being a congressman was supposed to be by the people for the people and not a career.

      • Ms.Tee says:

        We’re all pawns in a sick joke. But something lingers in the back of my mind: was Mitt in on it? I think he was taken for a ride by the Establishment. He really wanted the nomination after being foiled by the McCain/Huckabee cabal in 2008. Back in 2008, I thought he made a great case for the nomination, btw. So, he played nice with them and was allowed to be the nominee. But as a payback, he had to use Establishment advisers, the same ones, who doomed McCain and stirred the nasty media campaign against Sarah Palin. Toward the end of this whole mess, I truly felt that Mitt was in it to win. The fact, that he didn’t have a concession speech prepared Tuesday, has me thinking differently about Mitt’s role in the scam. Perhaps, it’s just wishful thinking on my part…

  20. allhail2 says:

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”
    John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

    “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    “When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was Governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually.”. . . I ask, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
    George Mason, Virginia’s U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

    “The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible.”
    Sen. Hubert H. Humphrey

    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”
    H.L. Mencken

    “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.”
    Patrick Henry

    “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
    Richard Henry Lee, a signer of the Declaration of Independence and crafter of the Second Amendment

  21. I’ve been so down since election night. I lost five friends on Facebook that night after voicing my opinion over the course of the evening. (no regrets, lol)

    On my morning visit to 7-11 the day after, I watched an outraged elderly man storm in and scream at the (African-American) cashier that the pump would not print a receipt. She mumbled, “Oh great, another one pissed off that Obama won”. I told her I was pissed too but that I wouldn’t take it out on her.

    Between 7-11 and my job, I got a text from my Obama-worshipping sister and all it read was “OBAMA!!!!!!!!”. I should mention that she just got laid off and is scrambling to find affordable health insurance.

    On my way home from work, I saw the same two guys that stand on the median with cardboard signs begging for money a couple of times a week. (They add photos of kids on their signs now too!)

    I have several neighbors who can’t work because they would probably get a DUI driving to work. I watch them live it up when their monthly check arrives. During the day, they’re poolside. I have a good friend who is looking for work but keeps telling me that she makes more money collecting unemployment than if she was working.

    This is NOT the USA that I grew up in. It pisses me off knowing that I’m getting up at 5:30 every morning to go to work when so many people are sitting home all day enjoying getting paid to chilax. I am so worried for our futures this week. Reading here is keeping me sane, thank you Treepers!

  22. stellap says:

    Here’s a little fun – perchance a smile or two?

    • ragnar says:

      Brilliant. He is such a genius. Good Grief.

    • texan59 says:

      Pussy. He doesn’t have to live with hundreds of thousands of ‘em, like I do. Not too many MS-23 bangers hanging around his hood. F*ck him. I’ve always thought he has the mentality of a 7th grader. Like Rush said today, and I agree with him, what are we gonna do, out democrat the democrats? Do they think that will make everyone love us. He and Jeb Bush and Adams Apple Annie can all go scroo each other. I’ve decided that I’ve evolved too. I’ve evolved into someone who gives a shite about this Country and I’ve evolved into one that thinks we should live within our means. I’ve evolved into one who thinks that “illegal immigrants” are criminals and they should go to jail for a while and then sent back to the farthest reaches of the 3rd-world sh*thole country they came from, along with a bill for their transportation. I’ve evolved into one who thinks if I want to burn down my house I will if I want to. I’m not gonna pay some inbred doofus who can’t even speak English to do it.

      • WeeWeed says:

        Amen, and I’m with ya’s. But I’m still too pissed to verbalize the EXTENSIVE list-of-shit that I’m tired of. I’m mad, and it’s long.

      • Sharon says:

        Hannitty, in more than 3 minute doses, always ends up sounding to me like a whining adolescent who’s trying to endlessly talk over everyone else in the room and prove that he’s not afraid to argue. Period. So tiresome. Even when I agree with what he’s saying, I rarely listen to him any more. There’s seldom any genuine variation of inflection in his voice–it’s just drivedrivedrivedriveddrive. Exhausting and repetitive.

        So now he’s ok with lawbreakers getting a pass, in large groups. Well goody for him.

        • texan59 says:

          “ends up sounding to me like a whining adolescent who’s trying to endlessly talk over everyone else in the room”

          Thanks for putting it into words for me. :evil:

        • Ms.Tee says:

          I’ve never liked Hannity, to be honest. He’s so “simple”, for lack of a better word. He got extremely lucky with the substitute gig with Rush. Hannity may take a “conservative” stance on the issues but he’s not intelligent enough to explain why he supports them. He just regurgitates Rush what says, minus the supporting facts and details.

          But see, it’s happening. Just as Rush and the Ulsterman Report said: as a result of the “defeat”, the GOP will called on to “change” positions, in order to win over voters!

          Glad, I’m going Independent! If I wanted to be a Democrat, I would have registered as one!

  23. cajunkelly says:

    This is what many will face in the cities:

    Sheeple have bowed down to rules, laws and regulations via zoning laws and HOAs. They didn’t look any further than “I don’t want Joe Smith painting his house purple”.

    While In FL, DH and I lived in a gated community with an HOA. Those bastards wouldn’t even let me put a potted plant on my doorstep.

    They will all reap what they sowed, or allowed to be sown. In that regard I ain’t got a whole helluva lot of sympathy for the people on the East coast right now.

    Lemmings aren’t blind. They have every ability to see that cliff they’re headed for.

    I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I’ve said before my parents were children of share croppers. They made huge sacrifices for themselves and us kids. The raising they afforded us was hard, on them and on us. While other kids could call their time after school their own, our time was spent gardening, harvesting, canning, processing meat, etc.

    In turn I raised our sons the same way. Ex and I made huge sacrifices to buy acreage outside town on which to raise our family. We weren’t always popular with our kids when they had to mow, drive tractors to cut/bail hay, feed the stock, etc. But they learned life lessons in survival.

    I can proudly say not one of my boys ever pissed away a weekend riding skateboards on city streets. They didn’t while away hours in front of video games. They spent their time in the pastures and woods, riding horses, and yeah, riding three wheelers for hours on trails *they* blazed through those woods. And they were required to maintain those three wheelers mechanically. Same was true for the vehicles they eventually got when they came of age.

    They also learned trade working in our family business…all three of them are licensed electrictions now.

    Survival is either in your DNA or it isn’t. The same is true for independence, accountablity and self reliance.

    • texan59 says:

      Boy howdy. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you waz my momma. Except for that electrican part. I’m a tad lacking in the mechanical department. On thing I do know about is that you should never try to hang a ceiling fan at night. :shock:

      • WeeWeed says:

        It is a misery whenst ya’s grab that one wrong wire in the dark. Don’ ever say “hold my beer ‘n watch this,” either.

        • texan59 says:

          I always recommend to Mrs. Tex that she turn off the fuse box ‘afore i start grabbin’ wires. Usually works. At my age and stage I finally quit usin’ the second one. Most of the time. :roll:

  24. texan59 says:

    Sumpin’ tells me Puddy may be involved here. LANGUAGE WARNING. :lol:

  25. GracieD says:

    Any of y’all know anything about this?

  26. texan59 says:

    One of our Treepers mentioned participating in the ORCA project. Here’s Ace’s take on it. Any feedback here?

  27. LandauMurphyFan says:

    If any of y’all have family or friends stationed in Germany, at least they’ll have this sweet man’s sweet tones to listen to this weekend, as he entertains the troops while they struggle to come to terms with the tragedy that has befallen the country they love and serve.

    Coming as he does from the coal mining regions of West Virginia, he must be heartsick to think how many of his friends will soon be out of work…

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