Price Gouging Ahead of Hurricane Irma – Thank You AG Pam Bondi: Tear ’em up…

For those who might not be familiar there’s massive and widespread price gouging taking place right now in “South Florida”.   The predators know how to maneuver around the areas distant from govt offices and checks.  Florida AG Pam Bondi is calling out the individual companies and their franchise holders. THANK YOU.

CTH has had our differences with AG Bondi in the past, but she’s a wolverine on a righteous mission right now – Directly calling out 7-11 stores and Chevron.

Florida is a massive state.  Most of what we are seeing on the news is completely incorrect about “South Florida”.  There’s “south florida” (as defined by South of I-4), and then there’s “south florida” (as defined by Lake O).  There’s a considerable amount of simmering chaos in South Florida south of Lake O.

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245 Responses to Price Gouging Ahead of Hurricane Irma – Thank You AG Pam Bondi: Tear ’em up…

  1. HBD says:

    Give em hell Ms Bondi

    Liked by 15 people

    • fleporeblog says:

      Our President gets along very well with AG Pam Bondi. As a matter of fact, he just appointed her to the Opioid Commission under Governor Chris Christie.

      She plays her cards right, she could replace Governor Rick Scott who will beat Incumbent Democrat, Bill Nelson, next November for his Senate seat.

      http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2017/09/donald-trump-will-appoint-pam-bondi-to-a-presidential-commission-addressing-the-opioid-crisis.html

      From the article linked above:

      Donald Trump announced Thursday that he will appoint Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, a political ally, to the President’s Commission on Combating Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis. The appointment was first reported in March but made official on Thursday, the White House said.

      ““I’ve just known Pam Bondi for years,” Trump told reporters during the campaign. “I have a lot of respect for her.”

      Trump signed an executive order establishing the opioid commission in March. The commission is chaired by New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and includes Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker and North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper.

      Liked by 7 people

    • Skinner says:

      Hmmmm…

      I’m surprised to see Sundance and a whole lot of y’all supporting what is essentially a desire for THE GOVERNMENT to impose price fixing and price controls.

      Should the government force their way into any Floridian home at will to check on “hoarding” violations too?

      Liked by 1 person

      • SoCal Patriot says:

        You obviously don’t live in the affected area. I just love the purity tests.

        Liked by 2 people

      • JoAnn Leichliter says:

        Sometimes “price gouging” is the only way to get items in short supply onto the market. People come with needed items (often just after the disaster), which are often transported long distances and sometimes already purchased retail. The seller asks a lot, but… You get the idea. Not saying, however, that this applies to those in question here.

        Like

        • David says:

          You are exactly correct. Price gouging, or what Amazon calls “dynamic pricing” is moral, because it helps quickly increases supply for items in great demand. If I have water, and I can sell it in Nebraska for $1 a bottle, or sell it in Florida for $20 a bottle, I want to get that water to Florida as fast as possible. For $20 a bottle I might be able to airlift it and still make a profit. So Florida gets more water bought to it more quickly than would happen if the government arrests anyone offering supplies for “price gouging” prices. Higher prices also prevent the first guy who gets to the store from buying up all the water. At $20 a bottle, he buys a few leaving the rest for other people to buy.

          While I understand many of you will vociferously disagree with this, keep in mind that you don’t understand economics well enough to know how markets can alleviate a crisis if you let prices work.

          Like

          • ladypenquin says:

            You can limit the quantity allowed per person purchase without price gouging entering into the deal. A couple of days ago, airline seats out of Florida were upped to over $1,000. Today they were going for $10,000. The people who can afford those seats? The rich who have that kind of cash on hand. I call that gouging.

            There is a moral issue here and one that I’m willing to let government participate in to keep a few from benefiting at the expense of the many. Out of the ordinary conditions warrant extraordinary measures. Same reasoning applies to why the National Guard gets called out in times of state crisis and emergencies.

            Like

            • David says:

              The rich who have that kind of cash on hand. I call that gouging.
              ^Envy. That is why markets are not allowed to alleviate a crisis as quickly as possible. Because people envy the rich.

              There is a moral issue here and one that I’m willing to let government participate in to keep a few from benefiting at the expense of the many.
              That is impossible. The government cannot keep a few from benefiting at the expense of the many. Laws against “price gouging” means that the few who benefit are the ones who get to the supplies first and buy them all up, leaving nothing for everyone else. Sad but true.

              I say “High bid wins.” You say, no, “First come, first served.” I say better to let the ones who benefit be the ones who are rushing to increases supply to people in crisis, that helps more people than envy.

              Like

      • Sayit2016 says:

        What part of state disaster is not clear to you ? They are asking stores not to price gouge – on WATER- the are not saying give it away for free…. If you buy something you own it…an America you can own as much as you want if you are willing to pay for. ( so stop with the hording nonsense…It is curious that you do not (or pretend – not to ) understand the distinction.

        Liked by 4 people

      • BigMamaTEA says:

        Actually, no. And I think if you’ll read Sd’s article, he talked price gouging and was thanking the Florida AG for addressing it promptly.

        Liked by 4 people

      • mike says:

        I have mixed reactions to this. If the supplies are maintained increased for an increased cost in these difficult times, I don’t see any moral issue. Otherwise, this can increase shortages, like fuel problems.

        Of course, without regulations one can imagine some entrepreneurial kid selling 1 qt ice bags for a $1, helping people and making a tidy sum.

        Like

      • Jenny R. says:

        Aren’t these companies doing some price fixing of their own by inflating the price on goods (particularly fuel)?
        Free markets do not mean you get to gouge people who are trying to evacuate in the face of a disaster.
        That’s just being ghoulish — and unpragmatic and illogical in the long term: you could cause riots, that would destroy your place of business which might cost you more money than you would gain in the short term.

        Like

    • Amy says:

      Why do airlines get away with it?

      Like

  2. Paco Loco says:

    I heard that the airlines were gouging ticket prices too. Shameful

    Liked by 7 people

    • FL_GUY says:

      Yes, it is shameful that people take advantage during a disaster. A few weeks before hurricane Ivan, I had a quote of 4,900.00 to put new shingles on my house. Before I could do so, Ivan came along and did extensive damage to my shingles causing major leaks. I called the same roof company with my quote and they would not honor it. Instead, they wanted 8,000.00. Had I not been so traumatized by the storm, I would have reported them for gouging because the cost of materials had not gone up. And for labor, they sent out two Mexicans that could barely speak English to do the job. The first time it rained after the shingles were replaced, I had leaks all over the house in places that were not leaking before. I’ve had constant problems with the roof since that time.

      Liked by 10 people

    • auscitizenmom says:

      Did they think no one would notice?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Landwell says:

      Yep, heard a report of $10,000 for a flight to NY; didn’t here if it was for multiple passangers.

      Like

      • Some Old Guy says:

        Was it a private jet? If not, there’s no normal pricing plan that’d charge anything close to that. As stated, that’s a clear case of price gouging.

        Like

      • Susan in VA says:

        Well this was for 3 passengers flying to NYC. Regardless $10K for 3 tickets is outrageous and definitely falls under the heading of price gouging.

        Like

        • Some Old Guy says:

          But not necessarily if it’s a small plane charter where hourly cost can range from a low of $1000/$1500 per hour for a turbprop up to $4000/$6000 per hour for a light medium private jet.

          Liked by 3 people

    • Sharon says:

      Well. Yes. And No.

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-flight-cost-cap-hurricane-irma-20170907-story.html
      http://www.businessinsider.com/hurricane-irma-american-airlines-discounts-florida-flights-at-90-dollars-2017-9

      I read an article a day ago (don’t know where) with background stating that the algorthyms that airline ticketing agencies use provide for automatic bumpups in price when the # of seats available shrinks. That makes sense to me, but what do I do.

      Of course, in this situation, the dramatic reduction in # of seats available would kick such a computer-driven pricing system into overdrive.

      The article stated that there was a time lapse as humans stepped in to over-ride that system.

      The same dynamic has often happened in the stock markets and is not completely unknown in these times.

      There are cynical memes/reactions that should be over-ridden by some thinking and reading.

      Some/most? airlines, since yesterday, have been operating with $99 prices.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Cyber says:

      A friend of mine had a ticket to visit friends next week (flying Wednesday IIRC) to Ft. Lauderdale and checked with the airline about cancellation/rescheduling the ticket. They told her the best they could do is delay it a week. I’m guessing they’ll be changing their tune on that.

      Like

    • guitar107 says:

      SupposedlyAG Bondi shamed them into offering good deals. I heard on the radio that at least 3 airlines “stepped up to the plate,” as she stated.

      Liked by 2 people

    • CaptainNonno says:

      Flights into Florida ar cheap as dirt. Just sayin.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Amy says:

      Watch the second video, they talk about that.

      Like

  3. treehouseron says:

    The Today show posted a video of her raising hell on their show too, and showed a picture of Chevron @ 7.20 a gallon.

    Liked by 16 people

  4. Howie says:

    Well, ya can’t gouge if there isn’t any.

    Liked by 13 people

  5. robertnotsowise says:

    Wow she is based AF! Bravo!

    Like

  6. Oldschool says:

    She may be our next AG

    Liked by 6 people

  7. BigMamaTEA says:

    Be safe my Florida treepers, you know who you are.

    Liked by 17 people

  8. MIKE says:

    chevron’s gouging doesn’t do the station owners any good either- we used to call that a “double whammy”

    Like

  9. das411 says:

    Sundance, I know you’re right in the middle of this and I hope you make it through this storm unharmed, but I have to disagree with you on this.

    What people are calling “price gouging” is a signal from the market, which is the aggregated supply and demand in a particular area, that more of something is needed, and higher prices are the only way those shortages are met!

    “We economists point out, as I did here, that the higher prices during emergencies attract resources–water, plywood, etc.–from other parts of the country. Think about who those people are who are supplying the resources. The obvious point is that they probably wouldn’t do it if they were not allowed to charge higher-than-normal prices. The more-subtle point is that they don’t have to worry about lost good will from future customers because many of them are engaged in one-time transactions. The guy who thinks to buy a lot of cases of water in advance and then sell them to others may not even be in the water business. He’s simply trying to make a buck by doing something that buyers show by their actions is very valuable.
    As I pointed out in my interview, by allowing price gouging, we get, to some extent, the best of both worlds. We get the traditional merchants like Wal-Mart, who worry about reputation, stocking certain supplies in advance and not raising prices. We also get the fringe, one-time suppliers, bringing in more supplies in response to the higher prices they can charge.”
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2017/09/thaler_on_price.html

    it’s counter-intuitive, just like the idea that free trade and lower prices will, in the long run, make everyone better off – but there is a good, detailed explanation here:
    http://tomwoods.com/ep-987-price-gouging-is-urgently-necessary/

    a look at what happened in Houston here:
    Thanks to Markets, Houston’s Disaster Isn’t as Bad as it Might Have Been | Mises Wire http://bit.ly/2xjkYmA

    and even a TLDR liberty memes version:

    Liked by 4 people

    • sundance says:

      So you support the “class system”?

      Liked by 6 people

      • AM says:

        No, but cost is a way to prevent hoarding and distribute scarce resources as rationally as possible in an emergency. (This is different than gouging.)

        I live in state where it’s illegal to raise gas prices in an emergency, which happened recently. There was no gas for us to buy at any price for about 48 hours because keeping prices low meant everyone totally filled up even they didn’t need it. Without a limit per customer, the “price” was being organized in time and we weren’t. We made it through but I would have happily taken $10-$15 fuel for a short time.

        Yeah, it’s heartless, but so is the refusal to look at the hoarding side in an emergency as well. Or needing to have reasonable prices when this is an emergency. Where is everyone’s thoughts? Even if it was gouging, I thought the fool was always the one to take the money. What will you do with it, rather than the supply?

        And yes gouging is a different thing, but if supplies run very low immediate market prices might be very high and look like gouging.

        Liked by 3 people

        • AM – yours is a subtle, sophisticated and accurate description of how markets and individuals work.
          SD – this has nada, zilch, nichts to do with class systems or evil or greed. I realize this is the go-to explanation for many people, but it simply is false.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Janeka says:

          Fact: gas is sold by weight to the stations with fuel tempeture adjustments at the time the tanker is filled, then sold to the consumer by volume.. A gas station rarely ever makes more than $0.12 per gallon, just enough to pay the annual tank operational/maintence cost.. This normal sales adjustment price allows the store to engage in gas wars with the guy across the street, or not.. A gas stations income is dirived at the store via sodas, coffee, snacks, cigarets, alcohol and whatever their clientele usually buy. The purpose of gas pumps is to pull people into the “conveince” store.. In today’s market there is more money to be made operating the “conveince” store instead of the repair shop.. Exactly how many conveince stores have you seen without gas pumps..
          When a place pays $2.19 for gas yet charges $6.99 that is not supply and demand day to day business, it’s robbery.. Usually this is done to cover up their failure as operators, lack of business insurance and/or low inventory of larger profit margin products.. Either you’re open for honest business transactions or you’re not.. The best bet is to close shop take care of their families and have gas for sale, or their own use as they rebuild..

          Like

        • Bob Kalle says:

          I think there is more to the discussion. Once price goes up, on say plywood, it does not come all the way back when there are no emergencies. So the price to build a house goes up, and then the price of insurance goes up. It is the consequences later on down the line that we have to think of, not that we scalped a football ticket to the Super Bowl.

          Like

    • ibobland08 says:

      Or you can just fill up some jugs from the tap for 25 cents.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Das411, charging what the market will bear is one thing and price gouging is another.

      Chevron and 7-11 are not “fringe one time suppliers”

      And believe me Chevron and 7-11 will indeed reap the “good will” from their un-neighborly actions.

      Raising prices slightly because of the difficulty of bringing the product into the area is understandable.

      But gouging is a whole different thing.

      Liked by 5 people

    • angusmcgeef says:

      I tend to agree with das411. IMO, the practical solution would be for the state to compete with the would-be price gougers but providing goods at the “lower” prices and same availability to out-compete them.

      Like

    • law4lifeblog says:

      I agree to some extent…there is a reason that “preppers” are preppers…i understand storing large amounts of gasoline isn’t feasible, but that’s not the only commodity people are bitching about being “gouged” on…if I lived in SoFl I would keep plywood, water, non perishable food and other needed stuff on hand all the time and replenish it after each storm if necessary.

      Liked by 4 people

    • oldschool64 says:

      Libertarianism is not an excuse for soullessness. Does anyone believe our Founding Fathers would conduct themselves in this way?

      The free market and capitalism are great things. Worshipping them is pure idiocy!

      Liked by 1 person

      • AM says:

        Yes, but so is worrying excessively about money when your life is a stake. The flip side of gouging is hoarding, which people have been known to do. If you have the money and something you really need costs a lot, then you buy it. You aren’t taking the money with you.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Pointing out how markets operate can help us understand price and supply conditions during emergencies without ever having to reference religion, emotion, or personal intentions. It is just how things are.

        Like

    • Skinner says:

      Bingo! Spot on das411.

      It’s amusing to see Sundance and a whole lot of y’all supporting what is essentially a desire for THE GOVERNMENT to impose price fixing and price controls.

      Should the government force their way into homes to check on “hoarding” violations too?

      Liked by 3 people

    • JoAnn Leichliter says:

      Good points all around, das 411.

      Like

    • Steve says:

      Additional to your correct position, the station owner has a need to stay open to service the evacuating public. That means he may not be able to protect his own home. He needs employees and will need to encourage them to hang around. How does he do that? double or triple their wage. Storm comes and he gets slammed. Citizens return and need gas, Station owner needs to bring in emergency generators which are very expensive to rent. He needs to clean up storm damage immediately.

      Chances are, the “windfall” he received a few days earlier barely covers his expenses to serve an ungrateful public who accuse him of gouging. As someone said on another site, Anyone who is against gouging, please load up a semi full of plywood, drive it to Florida and sell it at your cost.

      Like

  10. Friar Bob says:

    Crap. I’m torn here.

    If you are gouging simply for greed and trying to make a quick buck, frankly you deserve every bit of scorn (and 10,000x more) that we can heap on you.

    At the same time, if the prices do NOT change at all, then hoarders grab every bit they can get their hands on. And probably at least 55% of them (likely 95+%) are the POST-event price gougers. Worse yet, then you run out and the people who need it can’t get it. Either that, or the government/business/etc. has to start implementing rationing schemes. Which have their own problems as well.

    So I’m quite torn here.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      You wouldn’t be torn if you were making $10/hr and they were charging $50 for a sandwich.

      Then, you’d understand.

      Liked by 19 people

      • I think what we are missing here is morality and ethics- but who’s morality and ethics?

        Raw “capitalism” (actually a Marxist term) is dog eat dog, may the best man win blood sport. This in NOT what sound business is built on. The Golden Rule, good will, human kindness and empathy are Bible-based precepts. Ignoring them gets us to the 7-Eleven, Homelite, et al conclusion.

        Ignoring them also opens the door wide for the State to come in and impose their morals and ethics on us- and we all know how that ends.

        Liked by 5 people

        • Grandma Covfefe says:

          Exactly. I have called it Bad Capitalism and Good Capitalism. Do the Owner/CEO run the business for their greedy self or for the good of the business/community?

          Hubbie argued with me for 40 years as he is Very Pro-Capitalism. After observing the behavior and true colors of many Corporation America companies in the last few years, he agreed with my point-that there are two kinds of moral/ethics capitalism. Neither is wrong, but one just leave a bad taste in ones mouth. These days I call them Un-American, as they don’t care about MAGA. They have no respect for The Golden Rule, the teaching of our Bible, nor caring for fellow Americans.

          Simple solution regarding water bottles-limit it to 5 gallons per day. They have been warned and had time to stock up daily. If one week wasn’t enough, well, then they should have heeded others fellow Floridians to always stock up at all times. We always have 30-50 gal of water in our home. We never know when the next earthquake will come-it comes without warning.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Lindenlee says:

            I am frugal without being cheap. I like to get value for my dollar, so… When I buy a 2 liter soda, I save and wash the bottle out, and sterilize it. When Irma arose, I took out about 20 of these, and filled them with purified water from my 30 year-old water filtration system, froze them, and now have a great set of ice for my freezer & cooler, and eventually, drinking. I have freeze-dried food and milk, a butane single-burner stove with refill canisters (which cost me $2/can at the Asian store, and now $4/can at Army-Navy), and a battery-operated fan.

            Anybody can do this, with little space requirements, and a little attention. Then you Re not the slave of the gougers. An ounce of prevention…

            Liked by 2 people

        • Jenny R. says:

          That’s the best point made. And it points to price gouging as well as hoarding — for both in the long run will not serve you well.
          The Marxist model of capitalism entails social Darwinism and its attendant social unrest; it is not what our founders envisioned for us and is the great sham foisted upon our society in order to destroy it by having people believe that they are supporters of free markets when in actuality they are supporters of the very thing that would kill it.

          Like

      • allhail2 says:

        Easy fix. $27 for a case of water?
        Hey cashier, here’s $5, call the cops. I’m out.

        Liked by 5 people

      • AM says:

        As respectfully as possible – this is basically how socialists think about the world. I’m poor so it’s okay for me take what I want. Property ownership and laws of economics are not suspended in an emergency.

        In an emergency, there are two types of greed: gouging and hording. High prices prevent the later, while gouging is more difficult to control. People who needed 3 cases of water or a 1/2 tank of gas will fill up to full tanks or buy 10 cases because they’re normal prices. Then there’s nothing for the next person unless the retailer also imposes per customer limits.

        Probably the most human solution is price limits and per person supply limits but they have to couple together or otherwise people don’t get they need.

        Liked by 4 people

    • AM says:

      I agree. People get so swept up in those “bad” retailers gouging they forget about the hoarders. High prices check the hoarders.

      I’ve experienced exactly what you said. My state didn’t allow gas prices to rise when the pipeline broke. Instead of letting gas prices rise, creating a rational system of rationing, people ran out and filled up. Then there was no gas to be had for *any price* for about 48 hours or so.

      I would have paid $10 or $15 a gallon during that period. It’s just money and emergencies don’t last forever.

      Yes, let’s talk about gouging – but sometimes this can come off as “I’m in the middle of life or death emergency but I don’t want too spend too much money.” LIke this a normal time or Walmart type shopping.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Good points, again, AM. Plus in life or death emergencies, emotions run high, name-calling becomes more vitriolic, and reason flies out the window.
        No one has ever defined the word “greed” in a satisfactory way. But all users know what they mean when they use the word.

        Like

  11. James F says:

    Let me guess – the majority of the 7-11s gouging the public are owned and operated by muslims?

    Liked by 1 person

    • booger71 says:

      Many convenience store chains as well as the lower end motels are owned by either Pakistanis or Indians thanks to low interest loans from our tax dollars

      Liked by 5 people

    • JF…you win the internet for the day…That is entirely true. Go to ANY 7-11 in any place in FL and you will more than likely find a raghead!@###$. I do not like anything about the muslims since I have been actively involved with them from 1972, 1993-1994, 2001 and 2003.

      • lastinillinois says:

        What’s to like?
        (I agree with you)

        Liked by 1 person

      • Most Indians are Hindu. Most Pakis are Muslim. That is why there are two countries, where there used to be one. British kept a lid on the conflicts, but when they left all H3LL broke loose.

        Liked by 2 people

        • yucki says:

          Plus Bangladesh [East Pakistan], another generic Muslim hellhole. Bengali Muslims are craving a chunk of Buddhist Myanmar [Burma]. Lebensraum.

          Like

      • dutzie60 says:

        eagledriver, it’s funny. I tried to like your comment and it wouldn’t take. I’ve never had a problem liking a comment before. I was able to like comments below and above yours.
        Maybe WP didn’t ‘like’ what you wrote. 😂😂 I did though. 👍👍 And thank you for your ‘involvement’.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Lindenlee says:

        Most Indians, especially those from the state of Gujarat (Patel is a Gujarati name) are Hindu. Pakistan are Muslim. Big difference. Gujarat is are very entrepreneurial, hence the 7-11s, motels, Days Inns, etc.

        Hindus do not eat meat , Muslims do.

        Like

    • scott467 says:

      Good question.

      If they are, we’ll never know, because it will never be reported. We’ll find out who shot JFK before we find out that islamics owned price-gouging 7-11s.

      If it’s a member of an ‘unprotected class’, names and home addresses will be on the evening news.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Howie says:

      We have 2 local stores owned by the Muslims. Gotta say they are stepping up to the plate for us.

      Liked by 5 people

  12. booger71 says:

    Price gouging during a State of Emergency called by the Governor is unlawful in the State of Florida.

    Liked by 8 people

  13. James W Crawford says:

    And if Pam Bondi is going to prosecute the airlines for price gouging, why would they reallocate aircraft for extra flights that have to fly into Florida with no passengers and no revenue so that they can help evacuate people from the danger zone. Definitely do not want the airlines to have a financial incentive to incur the extra expenses to fly planes in with full tanks so that they can fly out without having to refuel and deplete the limited local supplies. Better for the airlines to just cancel all their flights into and out of Florida to ensure that they don’t get any of their $100+ million aircraft stranded in the hurricane zone.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Airlines are exempt from “price gouging” laws.

      Liked by 7 people

      • James W Crawford says:

        The same logic applies to gasoline. There is not a lot of extra capacity in the normal distribution network, usually pipelines. Tanker ships and tank car trains can be redirected, but they are more expensive transport cost per gallon . Tanker trucks are far more expensive. Redirecting the ships and trains and trucks to the hurricane zone puts expensive assets at risk. It is in the best interest of evacuees to make it profitable for people to provide what the desperate ly need.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Kroesus says:

        not technically “exempt”…..they are regulated by the FEDERAL FAA so state anti-gouging laws have no effect on them

        Liked by 1 person

  14. tempo150101 says:

    I can’t believe how stupid people are. This is a prime marketing and PR opportunity. I would buy a truckload of water, park it at each store and then just give water away. Geez, how stupid can people be?

    Liked by 5 people

  15. magatrump says:

    Praying for you SD and your family. Praying for all of Florida. God bless you.

    Liked by 6 people

  16. scott467 says:

    “There’s a considerable amount of simmering chaos in South Florida south of Lake O.”

    _________________

    Does anyone have a link so those of us who don’t live in that region can find out what Sundance is talking about, since he doesn’t want to talk about it directly here?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sharon says:

      Locate larger towns in that area on a map, and do internet search to find links newspaper outlets or TV stations.

      Liked by 2 people

    • LKA in LA says:

      If you haven’t traveled there in a long time you will not recognize it as part of the USA anymore is my experience.

      Liked by 4 people

    • wtd says:

      Lake O = Lake Okeechobee visible near the center of any map of Florida.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Howie says:

      The National Guard will be in to simmah it down.

      Liked by 2 people

      • An ex-SWAT now w/ the Reserves assured me they’re well prepared for martial law, and keep regularly trained for such emergencies.

        Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          The problem is that there is not near enough state troopers and national guard in Florida to handle the situation that is almost certainly going to occur. Also, consider that many of them are going to be involved in search and rescue. Then they will need critical infrastructure and supplies protected. Then consider they will need rest, I think you get the idea. You would be surprised how fast you can run out of manpower in an emergency.

          How this turns out is going to depend on the local communities and whether they are going to pull together or explode. Sadly there will be those groups in any community will look out only for themselves and not the greater good. Sometimes it is necessary to have a hard heart to deal with these kinds of people in order to protect the helpless.

          It is a little late, but neighborhood protection groups would have been a good idea.
          Please take care and may the Lord watch out for you and those around you.

          Take care and stay safe.

          Liked by 6 people

          • WSB says:

            The Navy does have for ships en route, just not sure where they are at this moment?

            Like

            • oldiadguy says:

              I know, but what are needed a lot of boots on the ground, vehicles that can transverse the terrain, the ability to bring supplies in and the injured out and the will to use the necessary force to maintain order.

              This should be a all hands of deck for the military. Coast Guard, Navy and Army with helicopters for rescue, the Marines with their amphibious vehicles for getting troops in and folks out. Field hospitals to treat the injured. Also, hospital ships off shore for the more seriously injured. Military police units to secure critical infastructre and supply bases with regular troops for deployment into the interior of the state.

              Since Florida is like an island with little road access on a good day, after Irma goes through it will have even less.

              This situation needs to be handled like a military campaign. The invading forces bring rescue, medical, relief supplies and order to those effected, instead of guns tanks and bombs.

              If this turns out as bad as many believe, FEMA, who is already heavily engaged in Texas, will be overtaxed. A disaster of this size is a job for the military.

              jmho

              Take Care

              Liked by 3 people

              • WSB says:

                It’s nerve-racking to say rhe least. However, the water access on thre sides may be a blessing. I heard 8K troops in addition to any state counts.

                Now, I also just heard that there are many cranes in Miami proper that can withstand up to 145mph, so let’s hope they hold.

                Liked by 1 person

                • oldiadguy says:

                  With roads and bridges most likely being unusable, I agree that water access will be a huge advantage if properly utilized. The United States has the largest collection of amphibious ships in the world. I think it is time to make use of them.

                  So far, Trump and his team have been thinking outside the box and have been doing a very good job. I hope they can keep it up. Especially since we have another hurricane following Irma.

                  Take Care

                  Liked by 2 people

                • WSB says:

                  I think that might assist the gasoline situation in the South anyway. The Miami Invasion. I cansee it now!

                  Was that a disco band?

                  Liked by 2 people

          • Jenny R. says:

            There are a fair number of military bases within a day’s transport, so if need be I’m sure there can be more people brought in for support. The usual suspects would likely scream about this, but if need be it could be done.
            It would indeed be a good thing if the people themselves do not require such a thing, but amorality and its team-mate panic have a tendency to bring out the worst in people.

            Like

  17. Bouchart says:

    When prices rise, it’s price gouging.
    When prices fall, it’s being anti-competitive.
    When your prices are the same as everyone else’s, it’s collusion.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. Nessie 509 says:

    Lots of. Floridians coming into Alabama. Governor Ivey declared an emergency two days ago so not any price gouging.

    Liked by 3 people

  19. Howie says:

    All this will not matter on Monday Night. Floriduh may be a total Disaster Area. Gouge that Bondi. Btw send me a Cheeseburger and 200 lb of ICE.

    Liked by 6 people

  20. America First says:

    We got the gouging where I’m at here in rural central Georgia from Harvey. News reports were saying there would be a 25 cent mark up, but we got .50 to .75. Don’t blame the individual gas stations. From what I understand, they get told from above what to charge. It’s the CoC types again using any tragedy they can to profiteer and consolidate power.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Howie says:

      And here, there is no gas to mark up.

      Liked by 1 person

    • liberty, not license says:

      Yep, in the midwest here — we got similar price increases here after Harvey, too. Not holding my breath that they will come down as quickly — if ever. :/

      Liked by 1 person

      • wheatietoo says:

        Gas Prices will go down when the refineries are operating again.

        Five big refineries are still inop after Harvey.
        When they up and running again, prices should start going down to what they were.

        Pres Trump authorized New Refineries to be built, earlier this year.
        I think the number was ‘eleven’ new ones.
        When those are built, our gas prices will get even better.

        Liked by 10 people

        • BigMamaTEA says:

          Yes, wheatie. But that’s still going to be awhile. We got the resources here, and currently there is a “backup starting” due to a “plug” if you will. Dh is in Oil & Gas bus. Order came today from bigger buyer, to slow down production, because of Harvey. There’s no easy switch to stop/start pumping, it’s one well at a time. Cushing has the largest capacity for storage, but that’s gonna get back-up too. OK used to have some dozen or so refineries itself, but over the last 40 years, we’re down to a couple. There’s one in Kansas; but the a lot of the pipelines run down to the Gulf, because for the bigger guys, (like the ones that pick up our products via pipeline) get a better price.

          This is going to affect the whole country pretty much, but, if we all don’t go broke waiting for the “un-clogging” of the system; it will straighten itself out in time.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Jenny R. says:

        In the Midwest as well, and yes prices have taken off — but they are no worse than they were a few years ago when there was no natural disasters. It just means my family will not be travelling as much (although I have to prepare my budget a bit more for a trip to Georgia in two weeks…son is graduating from Ft. Benning; we must go of course).
        Improvise, adapt, and you can overcome a lot.

        Liked by 1 person

  21. Need to change how the Dignity ads plays… they play over your article and those videos! I sent notice to you yesterday too. I am about to unsubscribe for this reason. I share with over 5K people by the way 🙂   Kind regards,

    Shirley

    When life gets too hard to stand…kneel

    ************************************************************************************ NOTICE:  The information contained in this electronic transmission is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS PROHIBITED, except by the intended recipient(s).  Attempts to intercept this message are in violation of 18U.S.C. 2511(1) of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines, imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient(s), please delete it and Contact Us at the email address showing to you in this email. ***********************************************************************************

    From: The Last Refuge To: blondepickle@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 11:36 AM Subject: [New post] Price Gouging Ahead of Hurricane Irma – Thank You AG Pam Bondi: Tear ’em up… #yiv3848042539 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv3848042539 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv3848042539 a.yiv3848042539primaryactionlink:link, #yiv3848042539 a.yiv3848042539primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv3848042539 a.yiv3848042539primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv3848042539 a.yiv3848042539primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}#yiv3848042539 WordPress.com | sundance posted: “For those who might not be familiar there’s massive and widespread price gouging taking place right now in “South Florida”.   The predators know how to maneuver around the areas distant from govt offices and checks.  Florida AG Pam Bondi is calling out th” | |

    Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      Get yourself an ad blocker. AdBlock Plus is free and works.

      https://adblockplus.org/

      Liked by 4 people

    • Sylvia Avery says:

      PLEASE do yourself a favor and download ad blocker. It is free and it is very effective. I would be shocked if it didn’t totally cure your problem.

      I never used it before until I came to this site and people suggested it. I acted on that suggestion and have had no problems.

      Liked by 4 people

    • nimrodman says:

      functions –

      Also be aware that Treehouse has no control over those ads, they’re WordPress ads and are imposed on the Treehouse website by WordPress.

      Stella and Sylvia are correct. You’ll need an adblocker or to read the blog with javascript turned off, such as by setting security to high.

      I do all my reading with Microsoft Internet Explorer 11 because I’m used to it, but with security set to high – disables javascript and none of those ads run.

      If I want to comment or “like” or see any of the video content that people post, I’ll copy the page address into another window where I’ve got PaleMoon (a Firefox variant) running. It’s got a version of adblock as an extension.

      PaleMoon seems much less squirrelly with javascript enabled than Internet Explorer, so I do active stuff in the PaleMoon window and simple scrolling and reading in IE. Even with Adblock plus, IE is squirelly with javascript enabled.

      So an adblocker is in your future if you want to keep using the site.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Piling on, I suggest you try the new browser, Brave. It has the ad blocking built in and, as a result, loads pages significantly faster than a regular browser, say Chrome for example, with an ad blocker plugin.

      I’ve been using it for several months and have 0 complaints! And I’m picky as hell. : )

      https://www.brave.com/

      As a treeper, you’ll be thrilled by the image on the page linked above!

      Liked by 1 person

  22. quintrillion says:

    I’m forever getting Pam Bondi and Betsy McCaughey mixed up.
    Here you can see why http://www.betsymccaughey.com – I guess I see some intelligent resemblances.
    Plus they are both righteous, outspoken warriors for truth.

    Stay safe y’all and smile when you can…be good to yourself and those around you.

    Liked by 5 people

    • liberty, not license says:

      Didn’t Pam Bondi throw George Zimmerman under the bus? I used to like her, but I thought she caved and enabled some shenanigans with the legalities in that case.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Coast says:

        Go watch some Y-Tube videos of her kissing up to Travons mother. Makes me sick.

        Liked by 1 person

      • justfactsplz says:

        Yep, she sure did. That’s why I didn’t like her. Lately, she is about to redeem herself though. She was big buddies with Angela Corey, the prosecutor in George’s case and was instrumental in getting Angela Corey appointed special prosecutor.

        Like

    • Howie says:

      Angela Corey Boss.

      Liked by 1 person

      • liberty, not license says:

        Thanks, Howie, I remember that name now, too. I just thought Bondi allowed the whole circus to start. I would be glad to be misremembering; I did like her before that.

        Like

        • janc1955 says:

          As I recall, Bondi was all over TV memorializing Saint Skittles and demonizing Zimmerman. I’m not going to get over that anytime soon. Imo, she’s an opportunist who puts her finger in the wind to decide what she’s going to be passionately for or against.

          Liked by 1 person

    • Joel says:

      Bindi is as wrong on GOUGING as she was on Treyvon Martin vs Zimmerman.

      Like

  23. stella says:

    Here is one company doing the right thing.

    Due to Hurricane Irma, most stores in the Tampa Bay area are out of water. For this reason, we want to offer our filtered water to anyone worried about finding clean, safe water for the coming days. Just bring a refillable bottle, container, etc. to our restaurant and we will gladly fill it for you. Stay safe, Tampa Bay, and know that we are here for you at Chick-fil-A Oldsmar.

    Liked by 22 people

  24. Howie says:

    The price of a loaf of bread is now Five Dollah….Sorry, we ain’t got none.

    Like

  25. citizen817 says:

    I think looting may be a big problem in Miami in the aftermath. Unlike Houston, where you may get shot…S Florida is like Scam Capital of the nation…Sure, people will be helping people like Texas. Then there is the other side of the coin.

    Liked by 2 people

    • sundance says:

      “Looting” is already taking place.

      There are people who wait for the hotels to sandbag and lock down, then after the hotel staff evacuates etc. voila’ !! There’s all the supplies you need in one location. Take the sandbags, and take the storm shutters off…. easy peasy. See how that works?

      Liked by 7 people

      • liberty, not license says:

        Wow. Really? I am so naive.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Grandma Covfefe says:

        Oh, my goodness. Having never lived in Hurricane territories, that would not have occurred to us. Terrible, when people are only trying to protection property and themselves. And I did look up “South Fl” city as someone upthread suggested. I then Wikip it and looked at Demography-pretty shocking. Looks like FL having same problems as CA here.

        We’ve only been to FL once, 10 years, mostly a road trip around the coastline, and drove thru Miami from Key West, and accidentally went thru a very unfavorable town/city somewhere north of Miami. Boy, we got out of there fast as it scared us badly.

        We’re praying for all of you Treepers in Florida and elsewhere affected by Bad Irma.

        Liked by 2 people

      • BigMamaTEA says:

        SMH!

        Liked by 1 person

      • WSB says:

        OMG! Well, as I commented above, I do not recognize Miami any more. It’s hard to even order anything in English, so I can expect what the ‘culture’ of the locals is.

        Liked by 1 person

  26. Daniel says:

    This is why I think FEMA would be more useful by placing fuel trucks along the evacuation routes. I’d also like to have seen FEMA distributions of plywood as well. Anything which helps to assist people with evacuation is probably better spent ahead of time rather than cleaning up the dead bodies after.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. Melski says:

    Gas price now $2.49 where I live.

    Liked by 3 people

    • JoAnn Leichliter says:

      Same $2.49 in Omaha as of this morning.

      Like

    • Eskyman says:

      LOL, it hasn’t been that cheap in California for years! (We have a regularly occurring natural disaster: our politicians.)

      Last time I filled up it was $2.69, but today the cheapest gas around here is $2.94. The Chevron across the street from me has it at $3.59. We get gouged every day!

      Liked by 4 people

      • BigMamaTEA says:

        Yes you do Eskyman! Of course, I can’t compare my prices to most, since we produce, we’re generally lower than almost everyone, especially on both coasts.

        Hey!!!!Long time no see Esky! Welcome back.

        Like

  28. adoubledot says:

    While this may not be gouging, its annoying that gas stations aren’t consistent with their price changes vs. price change on the futures market. There is a correlation, right? For example, the day that spot gas futures spiked ahead of Harvey (August 31, closing at 1.780), within hours, the price at my local Shell jumped from 2.459 to 2.629. The price has peaked at 2.799 and has stayed there all this week. However, futures have dropped every day this month to 1.661, almost 7%, yet no price relief. They knee-jerk the price up at the slightest rise, but take their sweet time when prices drop just as fast – bastards.

    Liked by 1 person

    • adoubledot says:

      When I say “While this may not be gouging”, I’m speaking of general price changes, not the situation in Florida, which is obvious.

      Like

    • Kroesus says:

      the old saying about gas price changes is “up like a rocket and down like a feather”…..BIG petroleum will use any excuse real or manufactured to increase pump price….out here in CA they use a method they have publically called “zone pricing” that I refer to as price fixing…the price is linked to the wealth of the surrounding community….SF is right next to our largest refineries and has some of the highest prices in the state typically

      Liked by 2 people

    • SafeSpace says:

      adoubledot: Gas retailers typically base their current pump prices on replacement cost for the fuel they are selling. Futures prices have near-zero relationship to wholesale rack prices. Those prices are typically a function of pipeline availability and allocations from the producers themselves. Name-brand retailers get first dibs; indies are last on the list. Said another way: Chevron has a lot of friggin’ gall price-gouging. If Lonesome Louie’s Last Chance Finnin’ Station jacks its prices up, however, that is likely justified.

      Liked by 1 person

      • SafeSpace says:

        “Last Chance FILLIN’ Station” … oh, to have text editing on this blog!

        Like

      • adoubledot says:

        Thanks for that info SafeSpace. And based on Joel’s reply below, it sounds like they can either make a killing or take a bath on the next tank depending on the timing. I guess I don’t need to call them nasty names after all. I drive an extra 8 miles and pay 18 cents less anyway.

        Like

    • Joel says:

      That is because when he has to refill his tank of 10000 gallons he is going to pay $.25 more. He might also have just bought at the peak, and has to sell at a 20 cent/gal loss in a week because on competitions underselling. My local mart has gone out of business because of this. Tough business retail gas, just a few cents a gallon profit.

      Liked by 1 person

  29. James W Crawford says:

    I would remind everyone that in the aftermath of Katrina, President George W Bush eliminated the opportunity for the airlines to indulge in price gouging by chartering a fleet of airliners to fly evacuees out of New Orleans. The Coast Guard and military helicopters that were rescuing people took people to the airport where they almost immediately boarded planes to get them out of the disaster zone.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Coast says:

    Lets talk about price gouging. So a case of water is normally $3 or $4…for 24 bottles…right? But yet its ok that Disney sells individual bottles for $3.50…making a case price of $84. But that ok with Bondi.

    Liked by 2 people

    • wodiej says:

      Again, like Jim, it’s not an emergency situation you are talking about. Doesn’t Disneyland have a picnic area like most theme parks such as Cedar Point where you can bring a cooler with your own water?

      Like

  31. Jim in TN says:

    $1 for a bottle is outrageous, but we pay it or more and do so regularly for convenience. In an airport you may actually have to pay $3-$4 /bottle because they outlawed bringing in your own. Why aren’t people yelling bloody murder about price gouging in airports?

    Government control guarantees soviet style shortages.

    If I were to borrow money, rent a truck, go around and fill up the truck by buying all the $4-$8 / case water I could find, Use my time to drive down to the area that has sold out all the water, Pay for the exorbitantly priced gas needed to do so. (And for the trip back.) Pay somebody to accompany me.
    Pay for several nights lodging, also with exorbitant prices. (If I can find any.) And pay for several days food. Then when it is all done, go pack home, turn in the truck and pay off the loan. (Probably also from an exorbitant pay day lender.)

    If I did all that, what would be a fair price for me to charge? You pay $1/ bottle to get water at a restaurant or from the fridge in a gas station, so why is $24 / case exorbitant? You pay much more in an airport, so why can’t I match their price gouging with $75 – $100 bucks / case?

    Nobody has to buy any of my bottles. I took a risk, and if I ask too much, nobody will. I also take a risk of being robbed or losing my investment to the storm.

    I will lose my shirt if I only charge what I paid for the water. And it isn’t worth my while, if I don’t make as much per hour as the lawyers I would have to pay to defend myself from communist like price gouging laws.

    Frankly, when you let us charge anything, so many people would get off their buts to try and make a buck that you would be flooded with water and gas. So much, that after a while, we would be selling at a loss just to recover some of our costs. And the rest of the US would be wondering why the water near us is either sold out or the prices have risen.

    I suppose you would be happier if I spent all that money and sat by the side of the road handing out one free bottle for each person in each passing car. But I would still be taking huge risks, and I don’t have the money or time to do so.

    So no matter how charitable I am, you are not going to get supplied like you would if I were acting on greed.

    And then, you throw in arbitrary laws, that will take me to court, and make be pay fines or do jail time for trying to do you a service? Well, enjoy your shortage. Hope you beat all the hoarders to get your supplies in.

    That may be harsh and unfair. But it is reality.

    Liked by 2 people

    • JoAnn Leichliter says:

      Yes, Jim, it is.

      Like

    • Here’s my issue with that. It wouldn’t occur 2 me to sell the water. I’d give it away. I do however believe in being prepared so we can help our neighbors and family if needed. That doesn’t mean I’m a hoarder, just prepared. Pray for Florida.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Joel says:

      Thanks for the appropriate perspective.

      Like

    • mimbler says:

      I agree Jim. And distribution is more equitable when price equals demand. No one is buying more than they truly need then.

      I had posted a similar thread elsewhere. If supplies weren’t limited, then “price gouging” would be immoral.

      But, price gouging can’t occur unless supplies are limited, then it extends resources by distributing to those who need them the most (because they are willing to pay the premium).

      I think our inherent sense of “fairness” makes us recoil from this, but the reality is that increased prices result in:
      1) people buy no more than they really need (no senseless hoarding)
      2) suppliers work hard to re-supply because their price received is higher.

      My instinct is to be against raising prices in these situations, but my reasoning sees advantages to everyone in doing so.

      Like

    • wodiej says:

      You’ve got to be kidding me?? All the store has to say is there is a limit. Stores do it all the time when there are sales. Some people might pay $3-4 for a bottled water in the airport but most don’t. Also, those prices are ALWAYS LIKE THAT and it’s not an emergency situation. Stores stock water and if they run out, they run out. Your excuse for price gouging is immoral.

      Like

  32. Patriot1783 says:

    During times of emergency, there should be some way to limit purchases per person ?
    With gas rationing during Carter years I remember cars could only fill up on days based on license plate numbers (not many gas stations at the time either) the line was still miles long.
    Godspeed Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina and Tennessee Treepers.

    Like

    • mimbler says:

      Hard to do fairly. I remember being poor and recently out of college in those days. Gasoline purchase were allotted on x gallons per car.
      My wife and I shared one car with two jobs, so we drove one person to work and than to the other’s job. Used pretty much the same amount of gas as two cars but only got the gallons allotted for one.
      The neighbors with two cars, a sunday driver sportscar and a Winnebago got 5 times the gas we did with the same essential driving requirements.

      If they just allowed the free market to let gas prices raise to the demand levels, the neighbors would drive their Winnebago less, and we would have had enough gas to get to work without having to take the bus at the end of the month.

      Liked by 1 person

  33. SafeSpace says:

    Ahhh, if Ol’ Unca Joe Biden were still around, he’d be calling out those folks “with slight Indian accents” who run a few of the 7-11s in south Florida (:>)

    Liked by 4 people

  34. tvollrath66 says:

    I’m in central Florida waiting….stores including walmart have been out of water since Wednesday. My husband found 2 24 pks on the way to work in Orlando at a racetrac for $7 something a case..u have to pay or do without. I don’t drink the faucet water it is metallic tasting… like horrible..I would before I thirst to death…lol

    Liked by 1 person

  35. tvollrath66 says:

    I’m in central Florida waiting….stores including walmart have been out of water since Wednesday. My husband found 2 24 pks on the way to work in Orlando at a racetrac for $7 something a case..u have to pay or do without. I don’t drink the faucet water it is metallic tasting… like horrible..I would before I thirst to death…lol

    Liked by 1 person

    • BigMamaTEA says:

      Well tvollrath, I assume you are hunkering down…..All of you who are, or moving around Florida parts, make sure you check in with us on a Daily Open thread, whenever this crap is over, and you have web access!

      We here in other parts of the country, are here for you. I don’t know, I think I know at least someone in every State now. We can start a human-supply-chain if necessary!!!

      AND, I’ll say this again……if there is something you need, that we can help, please, do not hesitate to mention it. Even if it’s something little like say you have net access here, but no access to a phone, and you need phone calls made to say you’re safe, or whatever!!!!!!!

      Like

  36. Sam says:

    Seems to me there are multiple ways to look at emergencies and pricing of necessities. Is it legal to charge 10 or more times the usual price? Sometimes it is. Is it ethical? If you live by pure capitalism, then yes it is. Is it morally justified? No, not if you live by Christian morals which tell us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. That would include being charitable, like the Chik-fil-a owners are being.

    That short analysis isn’t aimed at anyone in particular. It is an interesting way to classify motive and influences on a specific behavior. FYI I am on the be charitable Christian side.

    Like

  37. wodiej says:

    What these businesses are doing is evil. Amen to those who are not price gouging. And thank you AG Bondi for taking charge.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. kirkreport says:

    My Libertarian side talking…….. Price gouging. It’s a tough call. Do we suspend the law of “supply and demand”? Or tell businesses “no profit allowed”? Doesn’t every business wait for external factors to affect their market in a way that allows for higher profits?

    If Chevron raises fuel prices, it does not bother me. Since it ensures that there will be fuel available after the less expensive fuel is sold out. However, if Chevron and the other large fuel companies collaborated together and raised prices together, that would be trouble.

    With that said…..
    Florida is the most hurricane ready State in country. They’re self-sufficient and tough. We don’t hear them crying that the government didn’t do enough to protect them and they get lots of hurricanes. Floridians will handle this storm like all the others. Keep them in your prayers.

    Liked by 1 person

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