Disturbing OIG Report: 100 Vets Die Awaiting Care at Los Angeles VA…

No doubt VA Secretary David Shulkin will utilize the newest legislation passed in March which makes it easier to fire VA employees found to be deficient in their responsibility to provide veterans healthcare.  President Trump has also enhanced the accountability within the VA system with whistleblower protections and a specific office of accountability.

(Via Washington Free Beacon)  More than 100 veterans died while waiting for care at a Veterans Affairs hospital in Los Angeles, Calif., over a nine-month span ending in August 2015, according to a new government report.

The VA Office of Inspector General found in a recent healthcare inspection that 225 veterans at the VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System facility died with open or pending consults between Oct. 1, 2015 and Aug. 9, 2015. Nearly half—117—of those patients died while experiencing delays in receiving care.

The inspector general reported that 43 percent of the 371 consults scheduled for patients who ended up dying were not timely because of a failure by VA employees to follow proper procedure. The report was unable to substantiate claims that patients died as a result of the delayed consults. (read more)

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133 Responses to Disturbing OIG Report: 100 Vets Die Awaiting Care at Los Angeles VA…

  1. Daniel says:

    When a person engages in behavior which knowingly leads to needless death, it should be considered a felony. They don’t just need to be fired. They need to be imprisoned.

    Liked by 43 people

  2. Southpaw says:

    Just like I can’t understand the workings of the minds of criminals who commit depraved acts against their fellow humans, I don’t comprehend how VA employees treat their job as a slacker opportunity and not as a sign of duty to serve those who risk everything.

    Liked by 24 people

  3. Paul Killinger says:

    How about indicting those responsible for Manslaughter?

    Liked by 16 people

  4. NewNonna!! says:

    My heart is heavy reading this. Please, with our President Trump supportive of our military, current as well as veterans, please let this shameful lack of care come to an end. Mr President, please. 🙏🏼

    Liked by 21 people

  5. Proof of how Government run health care doesn’t work.

    Liked by 32 people

    • M33 says:

      I don’t say this often, but — AMEN!

      Liked by 6 people

    • patrickhenrycensored says:

      Reveal and replace

      Liked by 16 people

    • Maquis says:

      This is the truth.

      VA care is rationed care.

      Frontline physicians are literal firewalls, blocking access to specialized needs.

      Liked by 8 people

      • whoseyore says:

        They don’t have enough specialists in the VA, to take care of all of the Veteran’s issues, thus the long waits. The VA has never been allowed (by the government) to send Veterans out to private sector for care. Hopefully this new Executive Order that was signed will get the Veterans the care they need in a timely manner.

        Liked by 15 people

        • Maquis says:

          I hope so. I’ve been begging for years for the one test that could prove the source of a constellation of symptoms, but they refuse Even though recommended by my best ever neurologist, in Germany, that concluded I need brain surgery.

          Now, I don’t want the VA to do that surgery, and maybe no one ever! (Scary) But I must know and it could get me the right kind of help, maybe.

          Actually, the surgery usually fails, and makes it worse, but as a mad inventor, really, I am mad! I mean an inventor! Should I find a suitably enterprising, and competent, neurosurgeon, I have some ideas, and one big guinea pig.

          Back to your point, you are entirely correct. The VA was never built to have the capacity and the competency to take care of us. It is little more than window dressing.

          Liked by 5 people

          • shallbe4 says:

            Letting vets be cared for privately if they can’t get their needs met with the VA is a common sense idea that only people who don’t give a tinkers damn about these wonderful solders would have ignored.

            Liked by 4 people

      • Sam says:

        Back in the 1950s and 1960s my mom who was an R.N. worked in a VA hospital in South Dakota. Those veterans could get specialist care. They could see neurologists, surgeons, pulmonologists, cardiologists, psychiatrists, any specialty that existed. They seemed to get good care. But that was then and memories of WWII were still fresh. Veterans were respected.

        My how things have changed. Still even in the 70s specialties like heart surgery by well known surgeons like Thomas Starzl was possible. ..

        Liked by 3 people

        • shallbe4 says:

          It goes along with things like sending our jobs overseas, late term abortions and making our police officers the bad guys when a suspect is killed.

          Liked by 1 person

  6. H.R. says:

    Our veterans deserve better. Those responsible are beneath contempt and should beg for their lives, not beg for forgiveness.

    Liked by 12 people

  7. Weeper says:

    Those who SERVE……Deserve!!! We appreciate ALL of you who do serve, or have served our country. Your sacrifices are truly appreciated!!!

    MAGA!!!! 🦁

    Liked by 16 people

  8. May those who have enriched their own coffers, dined, vacationed and partied at the expense of our most precious Vets, may they know a special place in hell awaits them for their sin, sloth, indulgence and greed. To put ones self above a Patriot that has served his/her country is beyond reproach,beyond disgusting! These sloth hethens are beyond our contempt and our disgust, they are pure evil, may they burn in hell!!

    God bless our vets and troops forever and always💖💕

    Liked by 16 people

    • LoveofUSA says:

      Amen! Amen!! Amen!!!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      Dear Dear Grace, I’ve observed that little pegs your outrage meter faster and harder than Vets receiving less than their due. God Bless you for that, you are kind, and fierce. I hope I’m not taking advantage of your goodwill by sharing this with you. It’s thread appropriate, if a bit long, and TMI for some, but, as I’ve mentioned before, pride is the first casualty. I’m not ashamed of my weaknesses, just of those who daily twist the knife in them.

      Unfortunately, it’s not just the VA. There are a great number of official organizations that should protect us when we are being abused and cannot defend ourselves or escape due to our injuries. Even when it is our very injuries that “housemates” are knowingly and cruelly using against us.

      I am rated 100% disabled. That number reflects only the first of over a dozen conditions and injuries and the dreaded “syndromes” that I deal with. Due to certain physical and chemical brain injuries, I have myriad problems, including massive Chemical Sensitivities. It’s inexplicable. It’s a grenade going off in my brain. It completely incapacitates me. My IQ can drop a hundred points in a single heartbeat.

      My home has been a “fragrance free” zone for a decade. Smokers can’t enter, those that hung out with smokers can’t enter. I have turned away visitors that failed to abide my prior request to wear no colognes or perfumes. And I have Veto rights over any chemicals or perfumes or cosmetics that others may bring into my home. Until I don’t.

      Yesterday I had to disappear two bars of mind crushing “soap” that certain persons had decided to use, as I have had to do in the past, replacing them with multiple bars of the sole “safe” soap I have encountered. Only this time there followed the violent smashing of glasses and plates and throwing of furniture at me.

      Chairs were being thrown into an irreplaceable glass dining table and I was enthusiastically bidden to engage in physical combat with enraged, well, monsters.

      Recognizing the legal danger of engaging these dark angels physically, I stepped outside. Fearing further destruction of my home, I called the Sheriffs. Dumb move.

      The Cops, completely ignorant of the significance of Borderline Personality Disorder, which drives the chaos that the outside of my smashed and battered bedroom door attests to, and completely unmoved by my Veteran status, nor my complete disability status, nor my one relevant symptom that makes bringing poisonous “fragrances” into my home an act of chemical warfare, lectured me on marriage and threatened to jail me as a result of attempting to capture evidence of their violence against me.

      With all the Veterans coming home with Traumatic Brain Injuries, and the vast range of dysfunctions and miseries that they are suffering, and the ease with which cruel persons can torment them nigh unto the taking of their own lives to escape, whilst pretending to be the victim, our entire system of Law Enforcement has got to get their act together.

      A Veteran abused needs protection, not humiliation. A Veteran forced to defend himself against cruel assaults, especially those that take advantage of his, or her, injury, twisting the knife, as it were, ought not be persecuted or thrown into jail.

      Such a Veteran, having struggled months, or years, to create a safe space, cannot be thrown into jail at the whim of “Law Enforcement” and survive that uncontrolled climate that would nor could ever cater to his needs.

      I am convinced that it is not just the failing VA that is the force driving the upwards of THIRTY Veteran suicides a day. It is the entire system. Veterans are abused and ignored and humiliated at every turn. It is not just the VA.

      I don’t know who to indict, honestly. All I can say is this; that all the “thank you for your service” comments are utterly useless and downright cruel when this society allows what I, and so many others, endure, at the hands of this society.

      I am not a poster child for a broken Veteran. My wounds can’t be seen. So they are easily ignored. Those cops that harrassed me, humiliated me, and walked away, never thought that maybe they should explain to the violent ones in my “home” that bringing those poisons into my house, knowing the effect it will have on the disabled Veteran could be construed as assault and that people have been convicted for doing such.

      No, their humiliating went much deeper, much crueler, and they left the other “occupants” smiling and laughing. There’s more, but I’ve already said too much.

      I apologize for the length of this post. In reality, this place, CTH, feels like the only real family I have. I hope I don’t risk it by getting all War and Peace on you. I fear it will probably hit moderation anyway, then, what I’ve written would have been in vain. I can’t save what I’ve tapped out on a cell phone.

      It is not just the VA. I am not alone. It is not a broken system. It’s a broken culture.


      Liked by 5 people

      • LoveofUSA says:

        Dear Maquis,
        i get sick just having these fake scents around me. Both hubbie and I can NOT be around anyone with smoke on them. We get violently sick. And get what? We aren’t even vets!! I do feel very badly for you, having bigger and more serious problems than us.

        My heart goes out to you Bigly!! You need to share your story to Sec. Shulkin and President Trump. This is a serious problem, too, because the police lack understanding of your need of a safe health space.

        I hadn’t thought of the law Enforcement’s lack of sensitivity. I’d rather see some of our tax money go to extra training for Law Enforcement on helping vets like you, than to see the police give a kid’s glove treatment for the illegals.

        You were very very brave to open up like this. Stay close to the Treehouse, all the time. And know we love you and will pray for you.

        On Monday,do write to Sec Shulkin and President Trump about your problem with the Law Enforcement. It’ll take time to get it moving, and I pray they can resolve this.

        Stay in touch-we care-Thank you for your service to our country and God Bless You!!
        We love you!!

        Liked by 5 people

        • Maquis says:

          Aw, shucks, thank you so much for your kindness and encouragement. I will stay with CTH as long as I am permitted this blessed fellowship. I think you are right, I really should bring this to the attention of those trying to fix the VA, yet not cognizant of the wider risks for vets. There truly should be some Act protecting Veterans from abuse, by their war brides, or by law enforcement.

          Grace knows a good bit of what I’m dealing with, on the domestic violence front. I hope she sees this, addition to the picture. Its so sad. I had so many blessings to bestow on my “family”, yet they are the strangest people I have ever known, they have refused all my love and guidance. I am ashamed I brought them here to our Country, and would give all, and I mean ALL, to undo that error. They hate this blessed country as much as they do me. They are scofflaws and lawbreakers and have no honor.

          Borderline Personality Disorder is a nightmare. So hard to treat, especially as its only voluntary, and they almost always refuse. This one will never submit. I can’t tell you what she has done to my ten year old daughter, or how. Its immoral and CPS admits it will destroy the child but its not illegal so shut up and watch it happen.

          It is my prayer that their lawlessness will catch up in a fashion that will get them all deported. Germany, Africa, I don’t care where anymore.

          But an Act to Protect Disabled Veterans from Abuse Domestic and Official, that would be a really good thing. A longshot, but I’d go to Congress to Testify, if they can’t find a willing actor, of course. 😉

          Bless you,

          Liked by 4 people

          • Hi Maquis, this is so troubling and I agree with LoveofUSA, keep getting in touch with Sec Shulkin and President Trump about your problem with the Law Enforcement & your home situation. Keep reaching out to the Administrations deputues and staff and let them know your situation.

            I also hope some of the links I sent you last time we corresponded helped. A phone call with someone to reach out to who also can direct you to others to help if they cannot. Perhaps a fireman or paramedic who might be able to listen, understand and get you in touch with those who can help.

            I wish you blessings, plz dont stop trying to get your home situation looked into, there has got to be someone who can intercede on your behalf.
            Plz be well my friend,

            Liked by 1 person

            • Maquis says:

              Thank you Grace. I will try to find help. It turns out I am in a bad place for family law, or so I’ve been told.

              I hate to say it, but I missed those links you mentioned. 🙁

              I remember you letting me know you wanted to do so consideration before replying in full. I don’t have WP yet, and don’t know if it even does have a search function for one’s own posts.

              I’ve been looking forwards to communicating with you. If you sent links, and I responded, I must have been in a bad way because I cannot recall them. I am so sorry. I’m sure I would have written them down…

              This is part of the joy of being me. I am not stupid, but half the time I am. 🙄

              I’ve bookmarked this thread, and will keep an eye on it. The best I can do.

              Bless you,

              Liked by 1 person

              • Maquis – if nothing else, your sense of humor will save you! Also, I’m praying for you – asking G-d to bring your relief and peace.


              • Maquis,
                I tried to pull back from memory info i had found for you. Ping me by liking this comment so i know u hv received info, if not i will send when i see a future post of yours come up.
                Best, Grace
                These are some of the guys, former Army Rangers, from BlackRifleCoffee Company, and Leadslingers whiskey.  Charities they are affiliated with and their stories, and avenues to seek help.  Don’t know if it is helpful, but may be a start for assistance and support.  Also, Secretary Shulkin and President Trump should be advised of your situation, make sure you continue to contact them.
                “Long Way Back” Former Ranger and his story, below link to assistance from this documentary

                Quick Reaction Force:  Medical, Networking and Financial Assistance

                “I Choose Life”  another former Army Ranger and Charity follows from video

                Warrior’s Heart
                24/7 Support Available
                (888) 439-8670


      • Leslie Ingersoll says:

        Thank you for your service🇺🇸
        I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. Please do not give up on all of humanity, there is respect and pride for you and others like you, who have protected our nation.

        I am forever grateful for the men and women who have sacrificed their lives for our freedom. God bless you!

        My cousin, a proud Marine Major, who fought in Iraq, was shot down and died, he was flying in a Blackhawk helicopter (as I recall).
        His buddies stood guard over him and the wreckage, until he could be retrieved. He is now buried in Arlington, and we honor him always.

        He always told me that he believed in the mission, and that I should make sure to pay my taxes, to fund the mission. I’ve never forgotten that conversation and he is also in my prayers.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Maquis says:

          My goodness, I am sorry you lost your cousin. He surely died a Hero’s death, and what an honor to have your brothers in arms stand guard over you, that’s a very dangerous and difficult thing to do. Often those are ambush scenarios, and every downing must be regarded as such, considering the savagery they are combatting.

          No, I won’t give up on my Brothers and Sisters in this World. I am greatly concerned though, that this World will give up on me. That I will be denied the means and opportunity to survive with dignity. There are so many men suffering on the street that I feel silly whining about myself. I wasn’t quite where they are, but very close, I simply had the means to take my homelessness into the forest, playing cat and mouse with Rangers, unyil they came to log my forest and tear it all up.

          I recognize that expressions of appreciation are very often sincere, and I do appreciate that, but I feel there’s a real shortage of understanding of TBI’s, (traumatic brain injuries) and other unseen injuries. Officials could do so much better.

          Unless I can escape my current dilemma, without entering a cascade failure event, I will be stuck in a very precaious position that officials, and officers, only make worse. They don’t understand Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) either, and the dangers a Vet faces in such a trap. They just accept the lies and false truths as completely accurate and valid and come down on the victim.

          BPD looks utterly convincing, whichever face it puts on. Its not multiple personalities, but personality states, every one accepted as genuine by strangers. Yet one can play a terribly vulnerable victim and gain great sympathy, and then do a primal happy dance when the officials are gone.

          Or go from a purple faced rage to, upon answrring the door, do her happy puppy dog routine, efusively joyful and gracious, then when the door closes return to that purple faced rage without skipping a beat, finishing the very sentence that was interrupted for five to ten minutes.

          Can you imagine the danger of facing this in a divorce court? There is a Wounded Warriors Project, but no Wedded Warrior Project. No group helping save disabled Veterans from their mind-blowingly abusive spouses. At a time when they most need the love and physical support from a spouse, many are faced with the exact opposite.

          I wish a rich petson looking for a wsy to help Veterans would pick that blavk hole of need.

          Anyway, sorry to go on so, none will hear it here. Again, thank you for your kindness, and my sincerest regards to your family, all of whom lost a loved one, but especially to those that lost their loved one, in this war that I pray our Lion President can make right.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Leslie Ingersoll says:

            Thank you for heartfelt response. I can only imagine your pain and suffering. I pray for your peace of mind, and the mending of your heart.

            I have no experience with BPD, and would not know medically how to help someone in your position. Except to show compassion and love, it’s the simple things that seem to do the most good.
            I hope that you can get the help you need, from compassionate people, and put aside the expectations of those who don’t know how to help.
            If there is any way to for you to forgive your family members for their inability to help you, it may be a start. I will pray for them too, as I will for you.
            You are loved and respected, even if it is by this stranger.❤

            Liked by 1 person

  9. “The VA Office of Inspector General found in a recent healthcare inspection that 225 veterans at the VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System facility died with open or pending consults between Oct. 1, 2015 and Aug. 9, 2015. ”
    Oct. 1, 2015 and Aug. 9,2015; is this a data entry error? (Back in the 20th century; a typo?)
    Should this time frame be from Oct 2015 to Aug. 2016?
    Just a question for clarity.

    Liked by 5 people

  10. M33 says:

    And the Dems keep denying it. Sick!

    Liked by 3 people

  11. WeThePeople2016 says:

    This is just heartbreaking to say the least. We are retired Coast Guard, and we do not use the military system for our doctor care. My last time was when I was pregnant with my first child. It was a horrible experience, especially in the delivery room and afterwards (won’t get into the details). I saw a different doctor on duty the whole 9 months. People warned me to try to use a civilian doctor and I should have listened. I didn’t make the same mistake with my next child. My husband has not had great medical care either with some surgical procedures.

    Anyway, this is the medical model that the Dems want our medical system to follow. It shows how abusive and corrupt the system is and if they don’t want to treat you and leave you for naught, they will, just like that.

    Liked by 13 people

  12. Comrade Mope says:

    117 of 225 is not “nearly half”. It’s over half.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. WeThePeople2016 says:

    BTW, my father, a WWII veteran, died in a VA hospital from cancer several years ago. I cannot even explain how terrible the patient care and especially the bedside manner towards the family. My husband and I were stunned to say the least.

    Liked by 7 people

  14. Abster says:

    That just takes my breath away. How on earth can our veterans be treated this way. We have to create a system that works, one with compassionate, knowledgeable administration and staff.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. fleporeblog says:

    From the article:

    The inspector general reported that 43 percent of the 371 consults scheduled for patients who ended up dying were not timely because of a failure by VA employees to follow proper procedure. The report was unable to substantiate claims that patients died as a result of the delayed consults.

    Failure by VA employees to follow proper procedure. My cold anger has reached a boiling point! These employees should be arrested since their inability to follow procedures caused this to happen to many of our vets. Where these employees concerned more about protesting candidate Trump? Would not shock me one bit.

    Our Lion loves are active and veterans as much as he loves his own kids. This country will realize pretty quickly that if you want to be on our Lion’s menu to be eaten, mess with our men and women currently serving or who have served our country. That is what gives me solace when reading these stories.

    Liked by 7 people

  16. jeans2nd says:

    FTA – “The House passed legislation in March that would expedite the process of firing VA employees who have put the lives of veterans at risk. VA Secretary David Shulkin backed the legislation…”

    “Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) introduced the bill in the Senate, but the chamber has yet to vote on the legislation….”

    Rubio Introduces VA Accountability First Act

    Time to burn up the phone lines to the Senate. Call your Senators. Tell them to pass this bill.

    Liked by 4 people

  17. Rex Brocki says:

    Remember George Carlin’s quip that “Somewhere is the world’s worst doctor… and that’s not even the bad part. The bad part is that someone has an appointment to see this doctor tomorrow at ten!”
    Doctors who can’t cut the mustard are found out by the free market fairly quickly: they join a private clinic and… they have to collect off the clinic’s malpractice insurance for a mis-diagnosis, so they get fired. Once might be a mistake, but two or three times? No other private clinic will hire them… so they go to work for the government. Public health clinics and others will also fire them eventually however, so where do they wind up? The VA.
    It’s an inevitable consequence of how the government–any government–works.
    So now you know why I’m a Libertarian! (LOL)

    Liked by 3 people

  18. citizen817 says:

    The VA problems started long before Obama took office. According to this survey below, it was really bad under the 1st Bush, and continued to be just as bad with Clinton. Dubya improved it a little, but not by much.
    Reagan better, but not really.

    President Obama put forth initiative after initiative to help Veterans but the GOP Congress and Senate blocked it. Perhaps because of the expense, or just to deny Obie, or whatever. With Trump, Shulkin, and mostly accountability now put in place to fire under performers…it should improve rather quickly. Upgrading the systems definitely a step in the right direction. Also seeing a doctor of your own choice, whether they work for VA or not, definitely speeds the process. Our vets deserve the best! Shameful to say the least. These are the men and women who keep us safe.

    Among the last five U.S. presidents, which one has done the most for veterans?

    Barack Obama

    60% (9298 votes)

    George W. Bush

    11% (1746 votes)

    Bill Clinton

    7% (1041 votes)

    George H.W. Bush

    4% (622 votes)

    Ronald Reagan

    19% (2890 votes)

    Total votes: 15597

    I suspect, under Trump, improvements will expand rapidly. He loves our vets, like we do!
    It’s about time.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Troublemaker says:

      The American Legion poll is an internet poll anyone can vote in. I just voted. It can be easily manipulated by activist groups and is meaningless.

      Liked by 4 people

    • rashamon says:

      I will clue you that I have attended reunions with WWII vets from 1965 to 2010 and there wasn’t one where the horror stories didn’t fly throughout the weekend. Most of them wouldn’t enter a VA hospital or clinic unless they were already dead. This should have been addressed a very, very long time ago.

      On the other hand, a few friends from the Vietnam era have received outstanding care at specific facilities in Florida, so the problems appear to be site-specific, which the whistleblower EO should correct, and the option to choose private care is optimal for some areas. These people deserve the best.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Eskyman says:

        You are correct, the problems do appear to be site-specific. I’m a vet, and have received excellent care from the VA in La Jolla (San Diego, CA.) Sometimes I think it’s a better facility than the private care I got back when I was working.

        Several years ago I had shortness of breath, which didn’t go away but was getting worse. I went to the VA Emergency Room, where they took one look at me & immediately put me in a bed. I didn’t leave the hospital for 6 days, but when I did I was much, much better. I was also confident that I had been diagnosed correctly (with C.O.P.D,) knew the treatment was working, and knew what to do if I experienced the symptoms again. I also left the hospital with a supply of the drugs I needed to take which, at that time, were life-saving.

        The VA Hospital in San Diego at La Jolla really stands out as an excellent facility. It’s so sad that others don’t experience the care that I have received, and that’s what needs to be fixed.

        All that said (and I could go on for pages about the wonderful doctors and nurses, who I cannot speak highly enough of,) there are still lots of areas where I noticed waste and unnecessary expenditure. I also had a cataract operation there where the lens of my eye was replaced; the operation was flawless and now I can see better in that eye than the one God gave me! Before coming to the hospital for that procedure I was advised to bring my usual medications, as I’d be spending the night and going home the next day. Well, I brought them- but for some reason there’s a policy that meds brought in by a patient can’t be taken (maybe to combat drug abuse?)

        So I brought my pillbox with my meds; but it was immediately taken from me and put away, only to be returned when I was checking out, so bringing my own meds in was useless. Every prescription that I needed to take had to be prescribed anew by some doctor in charge of the ward I was in! Some of my meds I never got to take, as I never got the “new” prescription. I left the hospital with a stack of new boxes & bottles of the same meds that I had brought (all these meds are listed in my VA “chart” in the computer records, so I knew what they were and so did the doctors & nurses; they were all prescription drugs that were prescribed by VA doctors.)

        Now that I know the policy, I don’t bother bringing in my own medications; but it still seems wasteful to end up with so many prescriptions being re-filled unnecessarily.


        • Les says:

          Central Texas area has a great VA system. I think VA hospitals are a reflection of the community they occupy as you pointed out in your post.


      • A friend of mine said VA care in Portland area was excellent for him and others he knew. He acted as if criticising the VA was criticising vets. I suspect that might be common among certain age groups in the veteran world, in addition to the site specific problems.


  19. alliwantissometruth says:

    How could this possibly happen? In a country as rich as ours, with money being spent like drunken sailors at a whorehouse?

    It’s almost as if the people in charge are ideologically opposed to the military & don’t care about them. What else can we take away from this?

    It’s unconscionable that our nation allows this to happen. Have this happen to some illegal aliens, & watch the outrage unfold on CNN

    President Trump, please, prosecute those involved & nail their hides to the wall

    Liked by 2 people

    • LoveofUSA says:

      We’re not rich now. President Trump will change that. It’ll take time.


      • “How could this possibly happen? In a country as rich as ours…” Nothing to do with amount of money. It is government. Several Treepers have mentioned this, but it needs to be repeated endlessly. Look at every socialist country you have ever heard of (get past the lies and Potemkin village) – their medical care stinks.

        With government, everything, I mean everything, is scarce. Fact of life.


        • alliwantissometruth says:

          While I agree with both Love & Investing, what I meant was the government collects our tax dollars each year, & taking care of our vets should be the first thing they do with it


  20. That was then (bummer) this is now………

    Liked by 1 person

  21. aprilyn43 says:

    Thank God Trump is in office & he is changing this! Thank God Trump put Jim Mattis as Sec’y of Defense!
    This is disgusting! This is Democrats, Liberal-left, atheists & LGBTs at work!

    They would rather an illegal CRIMINAL alien be sheltered, an LGBT not get their “feelings hurt”, than protect & defend the life of those who have given their best. These ppl aren’t fit to breath, much less govern anyone.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. AmericaFirst says:

    I was shocked a few years ago when I read that the VA Administrators, like other government management, received hefty bonuses for monies “saved,” i.e., NOT spent on patient care. Also shocked to read that they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on Vegas conferences, as well as artwork for the facilities. I don’t believe government workers should spend taxpayer dollars on fancy conferences.

    My husband and I have started wondering why it is that we keep receiving solicitations from the Disabled American Vets, Vietnam Veterans of America, and the Missouri Disabled Veterans, as well as requests for household goods for them to pick up and sell. While we usually contribute, we are realizing that the need itself exposes how well the country cares for its needy veterans.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. LKA in LA says:

    Treepers be aware that a lot of the physicians who work for the VA are moonlighting or temporary. They come and go, rarely full time. The main stay employees are the same employee types you get at the post office because they can’t be fired. The LPN’s who work there do what they want to do. LPN’s are cheaper to hire and run the show. My husband and I have both tried to work there and it is impossible because the work ethic by the main stays is beyond pathetic. They are government employees who flaunt their ability to sit and waste tax payer money and dare you to confront them. They run to human resources and complain you are agressive. God bless the vets and my prayer is that we can dismantle the VA and get them in private care.

    Liked by 5 people

    • georgiafl says:

      Our President is working on it! At last a President who cares about excellence, efficiency, effort and exposing fraud, waste and incompetence.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      The problem with private care is that someone needs to manage and coordinate all the many specialists, and many Vets cannot manage that degree of paperwork and transportation and such. I fear many Vets would get lost, literally.

      I know what it is to be lost in a place you knew well the day before. And Paperwork? Rules and Regs and percentages and copays and all that stuff…I could never keep up.

      In a VA facility, other Vets will step in and help anyone that looks lost or is having locomotion problems.

      I am lucky. I live near the best VA facility I’ve ever encountered. I’ve seen scary ones, with affirmative action fueled racial warfare and an overall feel of a Soylent Green production facility.

      I live in a nice place with nice people, and I think that has a big influence on the hospital. The people are largely very nice and it’s a clean and bright place and Vets never ignore someone that could use help. I would go there everyday to help people if I could, they are family, and I feel great when I can render a kindness. But I wouldn’t last two hours and couldn’t count on being up for the next day.

      Anyway, the frontline Primary Care doctors are NOT nice. They are imported from India or some major inner-city hellhole, imcompetent, mean, and stingy. Even here, the niceness can’t rub off on them. I’d like to see that changed.

      Some places, Denver? Oklahoma City? They need burned to the ground with the staff inside. Sorry. I have never seen such hostility and WILLFUL incompetence. It is a mess. I know there are many horrible places that I never want to see. What a disgrace.

      Liked by 2 people

  24. CAL is says:

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand.
    Needless suffering with tragic consequences. Thank God for an administration that will no longer ignore the challenges we face.

    Liked by 3 people

  25. georgiafl says:

    Can’t blame this on Jerry Brown or even on the State Crazyleftyfornia…except that Crazyleftyfornians likely work at the VA. It’s a bureaucracy so leftists are drawn there like flies to honey.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. maiingankwe says:

    Thank goodness my Father was not cognizant while this was happening. He would’ve blown a gasket.

    My Dad was a Korean Vet, a gunner on the B-29’s. Believe it or not, he re-enlisted after his Father had asked for help in the family business, and returned when it was back on its feet and pulling a profit. It had a lot to do with leaving his Brothers-In-Arms even though the Korean War was long over.

    When he finally retired, he went back to school and was the school janitor where he went. Afterwards, he worked specifically with Veterans at Job Service and finally became an Advocate for Veterans in Wisconsin. He was the one hired to go everywhere and anywhere to find Veterans, mostly Vietnam Vets to let them know all about the new programs that were now available to them. He was trained with dealing with PTSD, but as my Dad would say there is nothing in a text book to help, you had to have been there to really do anything. He’d say Veterans were fickle in the way they wouldn’t listen to you unless you’d understand, and the only way you’d understand is if you’d have been right next to them. It didn’t matter the war or battle, you just had to have been there. He was right.

    I used to read his books on PTSD and had started that early in high school on my own. I think in my own way I wanted to understand what his friends were going through and the men we had walking in and out of our house all hours of the day and night.

    My Mom would tell a story from time-to-time, it was one I didn’t mind, and one it took for her to say out loud to realize I had done the right thing.

    One night she had returned from work, it was about 9:30pm and I was with her. There was a man sitting on our back steps in the darkness of summer. He was a bit crumpled in dress, scared, and wanted to see my Dad. Of course my Dad was in route home from taking a fellow Veteran to the Vets hospital probably a good 3-4 hours away.

    My Mom was more scared of him than anything. She wasn’t expecting a strange man on her steps who looked a bit worse for wear. However, she didn’t see the fear in his eyes, she didn’t hear the crackling in his voice, all she saw was a stranger.

    I didn’t. I don’t remember how old I was, maybe 13? Could’ve been a bit younger. I do remember putting my hand out and helping him get up and inviting him into our home. I brought him in the kitchen from the back steps and get this, made him tea.

    I sat and talked to him for awhile, and I don’t remember much of what was said. All I remember was the change in his confidence with a warm cup of tea. He spoke quietly and slowly. I remember it taking a bit of time for him to say what he wanted, as if he wanted it to come out just right.

    I don’t know how long the two of us sat there in the kitchen together with my Mom putzing around in the background. I think she got to feeling guilty and had made him a sandwich. She never sat with us though and I think she went in the other room with the door open of course.

    My Dad eventually returned, and I left the two of them together. In the morning I had found out he had drive him all the way to the Vets hospital where he had just come back from. My Dad was proud of me. Sure, he didn’t like the idea of a stranger and all that, but he knew I went off of my instincts and I wasn’t in harms way. This was one of the good ones down on his luck and scared.

    My Dad was always forthright with me and would tell me things a young girl probably shouldn’t know. He trusted his instincts. He would read all of his letters and show me what he had written and his papers in upgrading discharges for his fellow Vets he was trying to help. I don’t know how young I was, but I remember it was high school. I was his editor. He couldn’t spell his way out of a paper bag and couldn’t even spell my name right. I don’t ever remember him spelling my name correctly.

    Anyways, this brought us close together and in time opened up more and more to me as I grew up. I knew a lot of the background stories of his friends, the people he worked with and the people he helped. He didn’t tell me really any secrets since a good number of his Veteran friends ended up telling me essentially the same thing.

    Kinda like Doc who had lost his whole platoon. He was the medic and lived with nightmares until he passed away. I was there during a few of them. I knew better than to wake him up. I was with him because he lived on a lake and would let me come up to go fishing. I was his second daughter. I really miss him. He also took me out shooting on Veterans Day with other Vets. I didn’t know a lot of the guns, but they taught me how to shoot them. It was so much fun. AK-47’s, AR-10’s and 15’s, revolvers, hand guns, shotguns, assorted rifles, you name it. Oh, and they rigged their targets to blow up. My Mom would’ve died if she ever knew what we were up too. In her eyes, I was tomboy enough and didn’t need any more help thank you very much.

    Maybe it’s good my Dad wasn’t able to understand what the last govt did to our Veterans. He would’ve marched down with all his Veteran friends and created havoc. Only of course if his letters weren’t answered and yes, I probably would’ve still edited them.

    All I know is I am ever so thankful for our President and his love of our Veterans. One can feel the trueness of his heart when it comes to the men and woman who have sacrificed their time and their lives to serve our country.

    Be well good Treepers, I just wanted to honor my Mom and Dad with a story of my childhood,

    Liked by 11 people

    • EV22 says:

      Honey, you should write a book. Your father was the best of men. The best of America.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Gil says:

      Beautiful post, beautiful person. Thank you. And yes, I did cry.

      Liked by 1 person

    • SharonKinDC says:

      What incredible experiences you shared! Thanks for sharing. The gift of time and attention to these vets surely were a great comfort to them all.

      Liked by 4 people

    • M. Mueller says:

      Wonderful, wonderful story. Thank you for sharing your memories; your dad sounds like a spectacular man.

      Liked by 2 people

    • rashamon says:

      How wonderful to have such memories! Your father sounds like a remarkable man. The vets were so fortunate to have his devotion and experience.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Minnie says:

      Maiigankwe, thank you for sharing such a personal and touching memory of your beloved Mother and Father; you have honored them, greatly.

      Your Dad had such incredible kindness and strength, and that legacy has been passed along to you.

      I was transformed to that kitchen table with you, as I read.

      God bless you xoxoxoxox

      Liked by 2 people

      • NewNonna!! says:

        Ditto, Maiigankwe… was just thinking the same thing as Minnie. Your beautiful father lives on because of your sharing this memory. Thank you for showing us what compassion looks like, especially involving our brave and often forgotten Vets. 🇺🇸

        Liked by 1 person

    • LoveofUSA says:

      Your story reminded me of my dad, a WW2 Vet in the Med/North Africa theater flying B-24s. Dad would have a hissy fit if he ever knew what went on in the VA these days Dad would have joined up with yours and raise h—, as he would say.

      My dad also reached out to so many vets, letting them know they are not alone in dealing with the horrors of WW2, Korean and Vietnam wars. One of his friends in our church was patrolling Pearl Harbor at the time of attacks. Another friend was a radioman who landed behind the German line hours before the storming of Normandy (D-Day). Several of his friends were prisoners-of wars. One was in the Bataan Death March and survived!

      I so appreciate what your dad did for his military buddies, too. It takes these outreaches of our fathers to make us very protective, and patriotic.
      God Bless You!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      Thank you Ma’iingankwe (I can spell your name with my eyes closed! It’s a cool name.) Thank you for your story. Such things truly enrich our sense of history and the emotional impact it had on real men, I will never forget your story of the frightened man on the back porch, and your kindness, you still have that, in spades.

      I never got shot at, but my dreams are filled with fixing aircraft and saving the World, or Space Ships and saving other Worlds! It gets in your blood. I can easily see how a man could be forever haunted by horrors of war, yet still recognize as his true brothers and only confidantes those who “had been there.” It’s in their blood, an irreducible part of who they are.

      Sweet dreams,



    • Eskyman says:

      Thank you for that beautiful story. Thank you for being you.


  27. Frank says:

    The VA’s always been an insult. Our crooked government expects you to go to some God-forsaken dump and fight for their crooked policies. If you survive this mistreatment, you can go to hell, because the government isn’t going to lift a finger to do anything for you. That’s simply how it’s always been. Where I grew up – and I bet it was like this in a lot of places – the kids who enlisted did so because they were desperate. Either there weren’t any good jobs nearby or they couldn’t afford to go to college, or whatever. Nobody ever enlisted because it looked like a prime opportunity. Draining the swamp and fixing the VA might just make the military appealing again.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Maquis says:

      Reminds me of the first Continental Congress, refusing to pay the soldiers that fought the Revolutionary War! Until the Army threatened to march on Washington…

      Some things never change.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Frank says:

        Those who consider themselves “elites” have always taken it for granted that poorer classes would be happy to die for them. I can’t imagine being lost in a delusion that severe, but apparently it’s a common affliction among the wealthy. It’s just proof that you can be rich and still be a clueless turd. Either Trump’s administration is going to lead to reform, or we’ll just spiral into another civil war. The clueless turds have been leading us to that end for decades, as inevitable as the dawn. So thank God for Trump and a chance to fix things peacefully.


        • So, so right, Frank! My little story is about the Monmouthshire Castle and Regimental Museum in Monmouth near the border of Wales and England. I went up for a quick visit while I was there last year.

          There was a museum dedicated to the Monmouthshire Royal Engineers in the old barracks on the property. Four small rooms crammed with mementos, weapons, uniforms, postcards, reports, maps, equipment and more, presented the history of the units.

          I found myself wiping away tears on a regular basis. Treatment of soldiers today is luxurious top-drawer style compared to just a couple of hundred years ago. There was much history and heart-ache in that tiny museum.


          • Maquis says:

            I had the honor of being the first member of my family to visit my favorite Uncle’s favorite Uncle’s grave in Henri-Chappelle, Belgium.

            On Memorial Day over a decade back I sat in the next of kin section in my dress blues, watching the missing man formation from my base flying straight towards us, and then, what seemed a short way off, the Third A-10 of a Four Aircraft Formation suddenly pulled up and performed the steepest climb I’ve ever seen (short of the U2), rapidly ascending to Heaven, disappearing into the clouds, while the remaining craft retained their positions, maintaining that gap, the Missing Man, in the formation as they approached the stand and passed directly overhead, carrying on even in the face of loss.

            This Missing Man Formation was a common practice early on, to signify upon approach their loss, as well as to mourn and honor that Comrade. I don’t know when nor if that practice ever ended. I suspect it still is when conditions permit, even if not officially sanctioned. Doing fast spiraling descents into one’s airbase to avoid Stingers and Manpads, sold by our own past Administrations, would make that difficult for certain.

            These ceremonial formations are a heart-wrenching thing to witness, to feel. It was palpable. Everyone present, including many Europeans that came a long ways to pay their respects and the locals who had adopted every single grave, was completely silent and reverent. Awe, honor, and loss. A privilege to participate. The following year I brought my favorite Uncle to be there with me to see his favorite Uncle. A special reunion.

            Henri-Chappelle is so beautiful. Most Cimetières Americaines are stunning. Normandy’s is so immense and beautiful, truly an awe inspiring place. The design and execution, the monuments and inscriptions therein, the way the rows extend as if towards eternity in every direction no matter where you stand, amazing.

            Most sobering are the graves marked “Here Rests in Honored Glory a Comrade in Arms Known but to God.” There are so many of them.

            The American Battle Monuments Commission is an invaluable asset for information of all forms regarding these sacred sites around the World. ABMC.gov Lots of photos too. They can even assist you in having flowers placed at headstones via local florists.

            I lived but Fifty miles away for five years. A favorite Sunday drive.


  28. Queensland Kel says:

    This really makes me sick. My husband is an Aussie Vietnam Vet. He was assessed years ago as being permanently disabled due to his war service. He has a ‘Gold Card’ which means the Governent, via the department of veterans affairs (DVA), pays for his medical and dental care. All he has to do is find a Doctor or Dentist in private practise that will take the Gold Card. No-one, including Specialists and Private Hospitals, has ever refused to honour the Gold Card and turn him away. They actually loose money by treating him as they have to charge DVA an amount set by Government regulation.

    Your veteran’s deserve way better care.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. LOL.

    I remember getting the pep-talk after getting drafted about the wonderful bennies of being a vet.

    Fast forward a few decades. The number of vets became so overwhelming that the health care benefits were/are not available to every vet. There was/is a priority list, and one’s relative standing depended upon numerous factors.

    I never had any hope of getting benefits, and from a fairness standpoint, others deserved better than I. But the irony was always there…


  30. Millwright says:

    Not meant as an apology or excuse, ( and I’ve only read the headlines ) but what was the constellation of vets this was drawn from ? Undoubtedly some percentage were short-term terminal IAC. BUT this does not excuse or ameliorate the systemic and administrative failures permitting these honored individuals to be ignored or denied even palliative care for the convenience or aggrandizement of VA administrators !

    Liked by 1 person

  31. wodiej says:

    To know that such people exist in this world, that they would knowingly allow another living being to go without needed care for the sake of greed or just plain lack of caring, truly makes me I’ll. But, such evil does exist and I am so glad we have PT to lead the way out of the darkness of the past administrations​.

    But, these people were elected into office either by votes or a lack of participation in voting. And so I always quote Edmund Burke in saying “evil prevails when good men do nothing.”

    It astounds me how many people do not vote and have no clue what is going on in the world. I pray for the protection of President Trump as well as pray that Americans​ will wake up and realize how very blessed they are to live in the United States of America.


  32. Donna in Oregon says:

    This subject makes me angry. Every single time, without fail. Congress could have cleaned this up decades ago. Under our President Congress SHALL clean it up. I just want the consequences to be severe. First the clean-up then the justice…. My idea of closure would be prison sentences and public humiliation in a live court hearing of all the despots in the VA for the last 7 years (felony charges, fines, restitution).


  33. SteveInCO says:


    Do we have to go through every VA hospital piecemeal or can people see the pattern here?


  34. shirley49 says:

    Can you imagine haw far the monies being spent on the illegals and so called refugees would go in helping solve this problem. I do not see why we even need a VA. Let’s just cover their Healthcare costs and let them see regular Doctors.


  35. We had a Primary Care doctor at Redstone Arsenal that repeatedly refused any diagnosis from civilian doctors despite evidence and test results. After numerous complaints she was removed from the Arsenal and where did she end up….Huntsville V. A.

    Liked by 1 person

    • keebler AC says:

      Bureaucrats especially like these types of negligent doctors who don’t order tests nor follow up on their patients. It saves them lots of money to spend on fancy offices for themselves and short work hours.


  36. keebler AC says:

    The VA is a microsmic example of socialized medicine. You get treated for simple colds and rashes for “free” although technically it’s not free because you put in labor while young to serve the country or pay taxes…..but when push comes to shove and you become ill past a certain age, you’re no longer worthy of medical care. Most times, doctors and nurses guided by retarded bureaucrats, deem vets by virtue of their age to be a net burden.

    Socialized medicine will mistreat you when old like VA vets, count on it. You become a number to it.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. RZ says:

    Don’t get me started.

    As a veteran, I have access to care in VA facilities at no cost. Because VA recently opened a large, modern, and beautiful medical center near Orlando I decided to go there in January when I broke four ribs – a tremendously painful experience.

    I was given an appointment to see a primary care physician – the earliest possible date for an appointment being this coming November. However, I was told I could immediately be seen at their ‘urgent care’ facility.

    When I was almost immediately seen at the urgent care facility, I was informed they are not allowed to treat any type of pain whatsoever I would be required to ask my primary care physician in November to refer me to their pain management clinic. I was totally amazed and disgusted.

    Leaving the Orlando VA Medical Center in a great deal of pain, I stopped at a local hospital ER where I was immediately and professionally treated.

    Knowing and talking to many veterans, my experience is certainly not unique.

    Ironically, VA has a new web site where veterans can get current information about quality of care and wait times at their facilities. Accesstocare.va.gov
    Unfortunately, they list what facilities say is their wait time. Although Orlando Medical Center claims veterans are seen by a primary care physician within a week, I’m waiting till November.

    I sincerely hope the Trump administration will follow through and clean the swamp at VA.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Bendix says:

    I’d like to point out that even though the VA is a federal responsibility, those patients who died waiting for proper care were presumably California residents.
    California’s governor has no problem standing up to, or interfering with the federal government when it comes to the welfare of non-legal residents of the state, simply because they live in his state.
    He takes responsibility for their welfare, but the veterans can go hang?

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Bendix says:

    I think what we’re going to find is that once the incompetent hacks at the top get the boot, and remember, the power to fire patronage employees always existed, the lower level laziness and incompetence will become less and less of a problem.
    These things start at the top.
    I don’t care how “good” anybody thinks some of these people are, if the veterans are not getting what they are owed on the top man’s watch, that man has failed.
    These people shouldn’t have to be told, they should have stepped aside and let someone else take over, long ago.
    Speaking of which, what about that John McCain? He had ONE JOB, and he couldn’t get that right. Isn’t the VA in his state the worst one?
    He managed to dispatch an aide to a foreign country, to pick up a ridiculous, written-to-order ‘dossier’, for the purpose of getting even with the elected president of his own party. Couldn’t he have dropped by, or at least sent one of his aides, to the VA on a frequent basis, until things started to show improvement?

    Liked by 1 person

  40. chbailey says:

    From the linked article “…the report reinforces findings that wait list manipulation took place at VA facilities nationwide and was not isolated to a handful of hospitals, as initially suspected.”


  41. Neural says:

    My wife requested that I post the below for her. her father passed a year and a half ago after a long struggle with the long term effects of Agent Orange. Even now, after his death, we are still dealing with the VA refusing to pay for medical bills that they are required to pay (He had 100% coverage.)

    From my wife: “This OIG report only scratches the surface of the issues at the Los Angeles, VA, center. I know first hand of their ineptitude. They have a very high rate of diabetics who need to have amputations, and it is likely due to their nutritionists and endroconolgists giving incorrect information about eating. However, their worst offense that I personnally experienced is that they are more interested in their collaboration with the University and using people as guinea pigs. My own father is one such example, went in for an aeortic valve replacement and came out with an additional quadrupal bypass. Years later, we found out when he had a pacemaker put in that the bypass may not have been needed because the original veins/arteries were still there and were perfectly healthy.”


    • Maquis says:

      Involuntary Guinea Pig.

      Words fail me. So far beyond contemptible. I am so sorry for the sufferring he went through, and for yours too.

      As I have myself been advised, write the new VA Secretary. Write the President.

      (If you use the White House contact form, keep it under 2,500 words. One is not advised of that prior to clicking “submit,” and they do not have a word counter either. I’ve had to spend as long trimming a message to size as I did writing it to begin with, with multiple attempts at “send.” If you can compose it elsewhere and paste it in, you’ll be much less frustrated. It sounds to me that your situation requires a lengthy hardcopy letter.)


  42. froggieleggs says:

    I can’t even begin to tell you just how much the VA enrages me! My husband is a Vet and is in a battle with them now as we speak. My husband is charged for his medications. Being as we live on Social Security, we can not pay for his meds in full every month so he signed a paper saying he would pay X amount of dollars per month to pay for his meds.

    Everything was going good till 3 months ago. He received a letter from the Treasury Department saying he had a bill with them for 486 dollars. He calls there and is told that because he didn’t sign his agreement with the VA every 90 days, they sent it to the Treasury Department. The VA never once told him or sent him a reminder to sign this agreement every 90 days. Not One! So he had no idea he was to redo it every 90 days. So now the Treasury Department wants it in full or they will just take it out of our Social Security check at a 25% till paid in full.

    When asked why he is being punished for their mistake. NO ONE will answer!! We even tried having our State Rep (Justin Amash) try to help us yet he did nothing saying he can’t get involved cause we owe them money. Well no crap we owe money, that wasn’t the question we wanted answered. We are not trying to skip out on paying what we owe just want to know why we are being punished for their mistake of not letting my husband know he had to sign this every 90 days. The amount the Treasury is asking for, is NOT what we owe to the VA so where did they come up with this amount? This is a penalty not money for the actual bill that we do and have been paying monthly on for the last 3 years!

    Ughh the VA makes me sick. Not to mention, his doctor is an ass who has yet to diagnose any of his medical problems. He keeps throwing my husband on new pills that cause new medical problems! I feel like I have been watching my husband slowly die over the last 3 years and there is nothing I can do about it!


    • Les says:

      That stinks, sorry. The VA can be a pill factory, for sure.

      Not sure this can help http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/va_medical_care_hardship_progr.html but there ARE veterans organizations that WILL help. It will take a little time to locate them, but the DAV and your local Patriot Rider clubs are a good place to start. They may have some knowledge of resources for your situation.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Maquis says:

      Oh Froggy, that is surely VA logic, I am so sorry for your distressing situation.

      Sadly, I do believe they want us to die off and lighten their “workload.”

      My doctor introduced himself as he entered the office by forcefully denying that I suffer from the one malady that makes a nice cool grave sound welcoming, the one that ensures my 100% rating. I don’t know if he could threaten that, but it has me largely paralyzed in terms of seeking proper assistance in that matter, any matter really, I would die without that rating.

      Though I did write a somewhat angry letter last week that might see things happening. Unfortunately, if I do get surgery, I have not one competent and caring person to care for me. Brain surgery is not an out-patient just walk it off kind of affair.

      I wish I could produce answers for you. It seems so simple a thing to fix but sloth and ego are the twin monsters of bureaucracy, and so hard to overcome.

      I would point you to the VA Accountability Office that is being stood up now, but it needs legislation to give it teeth and a budget, and it’s really only to identify and remove bad employees, not fix their messes.

      I presume you have gone to the local VA facility Patient Advocate? They can help, but mostly, no, still, one ticks off every rung of the ladder so higher ups can’t send you back down.

      Have you joined the DAV, Disabled American Veterans? They can be helpful. I’ve met good and so-so agents, but overall, they are the ones to go to FIRST when you have a problem. My local DAV rep has told me that my first mistake was not coming to him first, and quickly.

      He was right, because I forgot that help was there I tried to attack something on my own, I’m still fighting for a couple grand that might partially fund my escape. Dang, I should be approaching them myself to see about resources to free me from my own nightmare!

      I’d gotten paperwork shy, easily overwhelmed, and didn’t immediately attack any situation as it presented itself…no more.

      You will have a Regional Benefits Office, mine is Seattle, yours will be closer in a place like LA. The DAV literally has their offices inside that facility! They can hand deliver a letter or form directly to the person that is responsible for that area of concern! They know the VA people directly.

      Membership assistance: 1-888-236-8313
      Or email at: membershippublic@dav.org

      If you join DAV, you can go see your Rep at the big Regional Benefits Office, but you should have one on your VA hospital campus!

      DAV has been at the head of many legislative victories for Veterans. They are highly engaged right now in this incredible window of reform possibilities. They may ask you to send an email here or there, all part of the war on sloth.

      Dearheart, I promise you that these people will try to help, and may already be quite familiar with this very snafu. If they aren’t, then we’ll sic the DAV Headquarters people on them.

      God Bless!

      Liked by 1 person

      • froggieleggs says:

        Thank you so much. I will look into DAV. Our nearest VA hospital is about 2 hours away but the clinic is only the next town over.

        Hubby has already spoken to the patient advocate at the clinic and all she does is shrug her shoulders and says she knows nothing about it. Seems no one at the clinic or at the main office 2 hours away, can tell us anything. Seems both the VA and the Treasury department point fingers at each other. It angers me that this charge through the Treasury is strictly a penalty for something we knew nothing about! As I said, we are not trying to get out of paying the bill. We’ve made the agreed upon payment ever month for the last 3 years. But to be penalized for something we knew nothing about is BS!

        I hope you get the help you need. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


        • Maquis says:

          Miss Froggy,

          Thanks. One way or another, I’ll end up where I belong. It isn’t in Washington State, that’s sure!

          Yeah, Patient Advocate is a joke. I had written a lot here on how to document the ineptitude and lack of concern you are encountering with yours, with the aim of her future unemployment, but when I got to going on things that might really help you, well, your Advocate suddenly seemed not so very important.

          Right now we need to see you on the right path to fix your problem. So I slashed a small book… Fixing this, I pray, starts below.

          First, in general:
          Document, make notes, names, dates, actions, communications, protect your documents, bring your own copies for others so tbey don’t make “mistakes” with yours. Bring your originals, but don’t relinquish them.

          If a lot has transpired without actually being well documented, just do a little catch up memo to yourself. Details help and could be very useful to you.

          With Government, as with so many things, it’s all about the paper trail. Don’t go sleuthing with videoing your interactions, I found out how dangerous that can be, legally, for us Citizens. Not a fun experience. All the above are just a modicum of the general guidelines on extricating oneself from SNAFUs.


          It IS weird that it’s the US Treasury’s fines you are facing. Evidently, the VA fines are collected in that fashion. If you get a traffic ticket on a Military base as a Civilian, your fine will be payable to the US Marshall’s! It’s the Government. It’s weird, cruel, and nonsensical.

          For you, it should be irrelevant which agency collects the VA’s @#!& fines. The VA levied the fine. Treasury CANNOT change that. They are not in a position to arbitrate VA rules, they couldn’t help you if they wanted to. It’s the VA, and them alone, that can cancel that fine.

          It only becomes a Treasury problem if they don’t recognize tbe cancellation or they had already taken adverse action by the time the VA relents. We pray that will not be an issue, right?

          Let the DAV help you get that canceled.

          Let them tell the Treasury to hold their horses while they address the issue.

          Let them demand that the VA provide their client documentation, proof positive, of having been notified of the necessity of providing such a signed document on a regular basis.

          Even if they can provide a copy of the first letter you signed, and that letter has verbiage to the effect that it has to be repeated every three months, the DAV can question whether that document had a place to initial understanding of that requirement and if it was so initialled. Also, did the VA provide you a copy? You can’t follow rules that you weren’t provided.

          The DAV can question the complete lack of notification to you of a pending requirement to re-sign. Question the lack of any grace period or notification that the “authorization” or whatever it was had expired and requested you return to sign another.

          The DAV could, and should, question why the VA didn’t automatically provide you, via USPS, two weeks in advance, an actual copy of that form with an explanatory letter and a return envelope?

          Even if your agent hasn’t seen this issue before, these common sense questions should be sufficient for them to hammer the appropriate VA official into submission. Take courage, Right is on your side.

          DAV, asap, please. Don’t sign up through the mail and wait for a membership card. Find your local DAV agent, walk in and join there at the same time you wish to press this issue. Bring your documentation, but do not relinquish it.

          They do tend to have odd hours at the clinic or facility level offices, actually all of them I think, 0700 to a 1.5 hour lunch and an early closed time, and half a day Friday to permit training. I pray someone is close for you. If you must voyage to see him, or her, really make sure you have an appointment and they will be there for you.

          Should the unthinkable happen, and they stink, there is the VFW, and even low income law clinics could take a stab at it I would hope.

          Firstly, examine your documents to ensure that something was not over-looked. We all miss things from time to time. You are obviously very clear minded but I myself have made some really big embarrassing oversights as I am not always 100%, to say the least.

          They still should have gone to much greater lengths to aid you. Their system stinks. The idea of sending a new form in advance of the due date sounds to me like a best practice. Bringing their shortcomings to light, even if you have “erred” on the fine print, could still gain you a break if a representative of DAV or VFW presses it.

          Also, as if I haven’t said enough already, make sure you are not entirely ignoring the Treasury people. Let them know you aren’t yet in a position to pay the fine, and that you are contesting them as the VA did you wrong.

          Don’t let them increase that fine or go into collections, which could be from your current Government income. They are like any creditor, they need their fur stroked.

          I could be wrong, but if I could avoid paying it I would. It is easier to have them dismiss a fine than to try to have them pay you back.

          Maybe paying a little could keep them from going crazy on your SS payment, I don’t like that idea, but I don’t know.

          I’m little more than a jailhouse lawyer at this point, well intentioned, but much is speculative. Which is why I want you to have representation. Call the DAV!

          All this is worth exactly what you paid for it. But I pray it will be of benefit to you, I truly do.

          I also pray you see this! My goodness, it’s getting late. I need to put this thing down at 2100 and leave it alone! But you are worth it. I love my Treeper family.

          God Bless you, and Goodnight,

          Liked by 1 person

          • froggieleggs says:

            Unfortunately we were sent the letter from the Treasury in April and were given till May to make arraignments to pay. So starting this month, we are paying 50.00 a month. I’m still going to see what if anything we can do about this.


            • Maquis says:

              I pray you find the help you need. The DAV really is the place to start. They were a tremendous help to me.

              My local DAV guy even had a cheat sheet, showing which number to dial, then which numbers to press to get through the phone maze straight through to the right human being.

              God Bless,


            • Maquis says:

              Oh, dang, just thought of this before I go out…

              If you do see the DAV, they will know about Treasury as the fine collector, they are still your best ally.

              Also, please show them my suggestions on my 2:08 comment about possible avenues of engagement. They may be old hat, or maybe not. You surely don’t want to be told it’s hopeless. Fight it.



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