Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting Update – New Spox: “Three Officers Fired Only Twelve Rounds”….

Noted immediately is the absence of W. Patrick Swanton, replaced by Waco Police Chief Brent Stroman. According to Stroman there were snipers positioned prior to the chaos, they also carried rifles with full-auto capability, however they only fired 12 rounds.

Waco Shooting

Here’s the report by Olivia Messer a local reporter for the Waco Tribune:

WACO – Waco Police Chief Brent Stroman reported Friday that three Waco officers fired a total of 12 shots during the May 17 Twin Peaks shootout.

Stroman said 12 shell casings were fired from police rifles and found on the scene. No other law enforcement officers from other agencies fired their weapons, he said.

So far a total of 44 casings have been recovered, but Stroman said that total doesn’t include any casings that remain inside revolvers that were fired. All other shells found at the scene weren’t from law enforcement weapons, he said.

Stroman disputed rumors that Waco PD had snipers on the scene and said, “We did not fire indiscriminately into the crowd.”

waco drone 4

Waco composite

A Waco Police Department press release reports that the three officers fired .223 caliber rifles that are capable of full-auto fire, but were only used in semi-auto mode during the Twin Peaks shootout. The release says there was no fully automatic fire from any officers on the scene, contrary to some statements made by bikers after they were released from jail.

All Waco police officers were inside their vehicles at the time the shooting started at Twin Peaks, the release says. The officers involved have been assigned administrative duties pending the outcome of the investigation.

The release also states the number of weapons discovered at the crime scene has increased to 475 at this time “and may continue to increase.” The list includes 151 firearms, 12 of which were long guns. Other weapons include: knives, brass knuckles, batons, tomahawks, weighted weapons, a hatchet, stun guns, bats, clubs, a machete, a pipe, an ax, pepper spray and a chain. (read more)

waco twin peaks from Don Carlos 2

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154 Responses to Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting Update – New Spox: “Three Officers Fired Only Twelve Rounds”….

  1. Jett Black says:

    They should just bring out Roseanne Roseannadanna to say, “Never mind!”

    Liked by 1 person

  2. TheLastDemocrat says:

    ??

    A sniper or snipers were in place, maybe 40 yards away, in advance, then saw something bad, and used 12 shots to drop the correct person or people?

    The 40 yard shot, in a parking lot in daylight, has a low difficulty index. Being aware of background seems almost impossible, if there was a decent crowd.

    If posed as a sniper, proper, any sniper would have to be leaning on structure really well, or have a make-shift rest, or be prone. I doubt a sniper would feel comfortable just waiting in the vehicle, or just standing around “at ease.”

    So, bikers of varying intensity are arriving at this event with poised snipers staking it all out?

    How much over-penetration would you be risking with a .223? I guess they could have anticipated the situation and selected more frangible loads as they got in place.

    Liked by 1 person

    • sundance says:

      I’m trying to reconcile a contradiction. Original press release said snipers were deployed, however, this presser segment specifically says Snipers were not deployed.

      I wish the POLICE would just get their S**T together and give a comprehensive press conference complete with Q & A, and just state what they believed happened soup to nuts.

      Too many contradictory snippets that create circular narratives.

      Frustrating.

      Liked by 2 people

      • manickernel says:

        Another example of speaking before the brain kicked in. The word “sniper” indicates a person in place and spotting for targets actively. What he probably meant was that there were designated shooters there with rifles. More a choice of words that they regret than anything.

        Like

        • geoffb5 says:

          There is one picture here with a swat term member carrying what appears, after adjusting the gamma, to be a Remington 7400 tactical in .308 with a good sized scope and a bipod.

          Like

          • Les says:

            This picture illustrates how the shooting was ridiculously close to the main road. That’s the first thought I had when I read about this here. It’s so very close to that road. They’re lucky they didn’t kill a motorist.

            Anybody know why this location is closed down forever? Is it like the Luby’s that used to be up the road (remember that)? Is it going to be another Chinese buffet soon?

            Like

      • Greg Linden says:

        Government entities only behave in this manner when they have something to hide.The event itself wasn’t as the police portrayed, numerous contradictory statements, the authorities in possession of all the evidence and not forthcoming. I’m going to assume the worst; the cops did all the shooting, and all the killing. If I’m proved wrong, so much the better. Let them disprove my theory.

        Like

      • Anubis says:

        I didn’t notice it in your coverage but brieitbarts coverage on 6-14 said that “The Waco police press release on Friday confirmed the use of suppressors.”
        http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/14/four-weeks-later-waco-police-narrative-unravels/

        Like

  3. OP says:

    Shit 12 rounds but 22 people were shot…

    AMAZING!

    Liked by 2 people

    • joshua says:

      simple solution….like the JFK magic bullet…just many of them.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sam says:

        Which would mean the rounds fired were not frangible.

        Like

      • SouthCentralPA says:

        Just on the off-chance you’re not joking, you do realize that the jumpseat Connally was sitting on was at a lower level and inboard of where JFK was seated, so the one bullet never changed direction in mid-air, right?

        Like

      • OP says:

        “A member of the Bandidos motorcycle gang described Wednesday how he was punched in the face and then shot May 17 at Twin Peaks restaurant while rushing to defend a Bandidos president, who became embroiled in an argument with rival Cossacks gang members moments after the Bandidos rode in from Dallas…

        Weathers testified that he and about 15 other Bandidos from the Dallas area had just pulled into the restaurant parking lot and saw Cossacks lining the patio area. He said he hadn’t even parked his motorcycle before Cossacks yelled at club President David Martinez that he couldn’t park in a particular spot.

        Weathers said he felt like the Cossacks were “disrespecting” Martinez, and he rushed over and told them not to talk to his president that way. Suddenly, a Cossack punched him in the face, he said.

        He said he put his head down to cover up and defend himself and heard gunshots seconds later. He was being pulled to the ground and was being hit in the face, he said. Later, he was shot in the arm. The bullet passed through his arm, entered his chest and exited the other side, he said.

        Prosecutor Brandon Luce asked Weathers if he would jump into any fray to help his biker brothers. Weathers said he would.

        “This is 2015. We know violence is not the first answer,” Weathers said. “We are not stupid. We know there are better ways to handle things.”

        Weathers said he did not see who fired the first shot because he was fighting with another biker. He remembers hearing the sound of a “double-tap,” or pulling the trigger twice…”

        http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/bandido-shot-in-twin-peaks-shootout-testifies-at-hearing/article_4ad1cb30-c459-5f67-8318-6269a763f170.html?mode=jqm

        Like

  4. OP says:

    Where are the autopsies? I don’t believe this crap for one second!

    12 shots…22 hit….magic bullets I must say!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Les says:

      The cops maybe didn’t fire all the shots. Math is math.

      Waiting for the official reports, no use getting myself all twisted until I get some actual information…

      Like

      • Josh says:

        I too am waiting.
        I don’t want to HEAR from anyone. I want to SEE evidence.
        Info. dump on a Friday afternoon. What a novel idea!

        Liked by 2 people

      • oldiadguy says:

        It was about time the Chief of the Waco PD came out of hiding and made a statement about the incident. Unfortunately his claim of releasing newly acquired information is pretty weak. If his department did not know the number of shots fired by his officers within the first hour or so, he needs to find some new investigators.

        The number of rounds the chief claims that were actually fired that day is about what I expected (50 to 100), not the thousands of rounds claimed in the Don Carlos lawsuit. The evidence cones near the dark SUV are most likely shell casing fired by a LEO(s). The rest of the evidence markers are still unknowns. I suspect that a number of the bikers were firing pistols as evidenced by the number of evidence cones among the bikes in front of TP.

        The problem the Waco PD has is the conflicting stories put out by their PIO, Swanton. Swanton violated the first rule of talking to the press. If you don’t know the answer, tell them you don’t know, don’t blab whatever tidbits of information that comes your way. It is amazing that the PD doesn’t understand why folks don’t trust them to tell the truth. Conflicting statements, no intelligible explanation for the mass arrests such as the probable cause of each of the persons arrested or the criteria they used in making their decisions, no breakdown of arrested and their gang membership and no description of the wounds suffered by those who were wounded. And they wonder why people think they are hiding something.

        It would be interesting to see a listing of all the prior statements by Swanton and see how they compare with the new information being released by the chief.

        Take Care

        Liked by 7 people

        • art tart says:

          oldiadguy ~ Thanks. You’ve mentioned a couple of times before, “Where is the Chief?” Swanton was doing interviews closely together giving conflicting information causing many to question what the h3ll was going on within the dept., “the 1000 guns” comment was ridiculous even to a layman w/no LE background. The damage has been done to the dept. imo, it seems the Dept. was in such a hurry to get out in front of the blow back, they have hurt the very credibility they hoped to gain for their dept.

          Why do you think now the Chief raises his head after Swanton damaged the dept.? Is it because of the conflicting information Swanton released causing the Chief to see that his department isn’t put in a positive light w/this case & their credibility questioned?

          Liked by 3 people

          • oldiadguy says:

            “The damage has been done to the dept. imo, it seems the Dept. was in such a hurry to get out in front of the blow back, they have hurt the very credibility they hoped to gain for their dept.”

            Swanton’s misstatements have hurt a lot. The fact they refuse to release basic information hasn’t helped either. When an agency makes mass arrests such as they had, you MUST explain the reason for the arrests and the criteria used to separate the “suspects” from the innocents. The Waco PD failed to do that. I still don’t know that they are thinking.

            I don’t know why the chief decided to finally show his face. He should have been on the news the evening of the incident assuring the public instead of Swanton giving varying accounts on what occurred.

            One thought is the statement made by the DA about how the Cossacks were setting up sentry locations and checking their weapons. That statement threw the officers monitoring situation under the bus. I was surprised the DA made such a statement.

            Again, this was mishandled on various levels from the start. It is an old story about how one mistake begets another and another and the thing just snowballs down hill. SMH

            Take Care

            Liked by 3 people

            • bertdilbert says:

              I am amazed by the weapons count. Weapons were confiscated from vehicles that would never have come into play and were otherwise legal. They are boosting the weapons count to make them look good. It is like pulling pot plants, weighing them wet, with dirt on the roots, sun leaves, and converting non smokeable material into “street value”.

              The fact that they are playing with the weapons number to make them look good makes me think that they are covering for something that looks bad.

              Liked by 2 people

              • lovely says:

                Because of the penal code that the bikers are being charged with, Penal Code Section 71.02 Engaging in Organized Crime, anything in their cars or motorcycles will be lawful evidence.

                Like

              • oldiadguy says:

                I agree completely. The actions by the Waco Authorities is what is causing the people to doubt their credibility. I hate to think what they would find if they would search my vehicle.

                If you wanted to know on how not to handle the PR side of an incident of this nature, just look to the Waco PD for the answer. It is a shame, as the Waco PD was considered a good department in LE circles.

                Take Care

                Like

          • OP says:

            I’ll bet Swanton is one of the shooters and has been put on leave…like the other officers…

            Like

        • Rurik says:

          Another bit of information that should be feasible is which of the bikers fired their pistols. All handguns confiscated at the time would/should have been checked for recent discharge. And these weapons should be tagged identifying from whom they were confiscated. Immediate information, and clarification about who should, and who need not be held. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of shooters by club.

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            “All handguns confiscated at the time would/should have been checked for recent discharge. And these weapons should be tagged identifying from whom they were confiscated.”

            I would have hoped that they did just that, but who knows at this point. I can see them running out of evidence containers, but they were at a shopping mall. They could have obtained bags and 3×5 cards to use to store and identify the weapons until proper containers were obtained.

            I agree that the firearms that appeared to have been fired should be separated from those that weren’t fired. The discharged firearms would have been a priority for processing.

            I suspect there is a reason they aren’t breaking down the arrested persons by club. It might cause to many questions about their alleged “affiliations” and the reasons these individuals were arrested.

            Take Care

            Liked by 1 person

      • EclecticAK says:

        Soooooo, the evidence cones marking ejected LEO shell casings near the dark SUV and on the grassy embankment account for ALL 12 shots….. and maybe a few more….. so NONE of the officers over in front of Don Carlos (closest to the fray and presumably fired upon) fired a single shot? You know, the ones the combat vet Marine claims to have seen advancing and firing indiscriminately in an undisciplined fashion into the scrum of battling bikers? Wanns buy a bridge? How about the Moon…. special cheap for you today Meeeeester….n

        8

        Liked by 1 person

    • JeremyR says:

      Over penetration. One round could have been a through and through with target #1, then struck unintended victim behind said person.
      How have they NOT counted revolver rounds? they have had 151 firearms in custody for ??? longer than ten minutes.

      Liked by 1 person

      • manickernel says:

        The only reason I can think of, and it would make sense, is that there is no way to prove a fired casing in a revolver was fired at the scene. Empty casings on the ground, however, pretty much indicate where the gun was fired.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Burnt Toast says:

          A fired casing is a fired casing. They still have to show that it was fired from a weapon recovered there and that it was fired there. Inconclusive is also viable.

          Shouldn’t be that hard to tally them all up and present the total number of recovered casings. Whether fired on-site, from which weapon, and by who is assumed inknown until it can be shown.

          Like

      • auscitizenmom says:

        Maybe they all learned Common Core Math.

        Liked by 2 people

      • JustSomeInputFromAz says:

        Not from the M-16 platform. The round is designed to enter the human body and then fragment. It was designed to render great harm to the human body and not exit.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. OP says:

    The head mouth piece said ALL HIS COPS WERE IN THIER CARS!

    So 3 officers while sitting in their cars, shot on the average 4 shots and 22 people were injured.

    Notice that Waco is taking the heat and the feds hands are clean?

    So Waco is speaking only on the behalf of the Waco cops….do they not speaks for DPS?

    Only 12 shots from “ALL” the LEO that were there that day….

    BULL!

    Liked by 2 people

  6. psconcerned says:

    I wonder if some of the 22 people shot were hit by criminal motorcycle gangs?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. joshua says:

    as usual….no one likes the narrative if it does not support their foregone conclusive storyline. Shades of every conflict we have been part of on CTH…from Trayvon on…..the FACTS are still not proven and in….so to TAKE sides is to bet on speculation….seems to me

    Like

  8. bofh says:

    Does “select fire” not count as “full auto” when Police are speaking? 12 casings divides nicely by three into four possible bursts. Else why did witnesses describe the sound of “automatic weapons fire”?

    Like

    • Rojas says:

      It didn’t when the ATF was testifying at the trial of surviving Branch Davidians

      Like

      • joshua says:

        how much did a tank round count during the Branch Davidian debacle by Janet Reno?

        Like

      • Rojas says:

        It didn’t come up. Those folks were on trial for conspiracy to murder federal officers. That was in relation to the original assault by the ATF.

        As far as the tank drivers go, one objective measurement of how their contribution counted could be evaluated is by the bonuses paid to them by the Clinton administration.

        Originally the proposal was to present them with some form of commendation for their service. However, on reflection, it did occur someone in the administration that pinning a medal on a guy for gassing children while knocking their house down around them might be considered distasteful.
        A monetary stipend was provided in lieu of..

        Like

    • manickernel says:

      Ummm, because they are mistaken? Never heard automatic rifle fire before? Unable to separate individual shots from multiple weapons? Just wanted to sensationalize the story?

      Liked by 2 people

  9. jc says:

    The Waco PD killed 9 bikers with 12 rounds, most of the kills were head/neck. These dirty old bikers were executed by snipers, shooting fish in a barrel, a massacre on US civilians by the police. No cops were shot. The bikers probably heard shots, saw guys dropping around them and fired at the other bikers thinking they were the ones firing – when it was actually the cops.

    This stuff about cops sitting in their cars is complete Texas size bullshiit. The claim that the cops had been fired upon first is also unbelievable. Chicago ’68 was a police riot, Waco ’15 was a police massacre. If these bikers had been black the entire justice dept would be camping out in Waco.

    Like

    • Jett Black says:

      The photos from the neighboring restaurant show the LEOs weren’t in their cars and most of them had ARs, though only a couple look like they’re in shooting position. There’s a big stinking, BS flag waiving over this one.

      Like

      • oldiadguy says:

        JB, that photo was taken after the melee kicked off and some of the bikers ran to that location for cover and possibly protection of the officers. I don’t believe any of those officers fired any shots as I have yet to see a photo showing any evidence cones there. I suspect that some of the police gun fire came from the area of the dark SUV. The rest of the shots, who knows?

        Take Care

        Like

  10. bertdilbert says:

    But the one photo seems to show at least 9 evidence cones. So that leaves 3 or less rounds to be fired from the other locations with numerous evidence cones…. Sticky math.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jett Black says:

      There are at least 3 cones on the grassy knoll at the other end of the parking lot from the SUV around which there are at least 9. I think I counted cones from earlier photos and found about 15, but I’d have to search back to find that for sure. I’m not believing only 12 shots fired by all law enforcement.

      Like

      • geoffb5 says:

        There are 6 visible on the grassy berm, 12 visible around the bikes, and at least 10 in the black SUV nighttime picture, 5 near it and 5 further in towards Twin Peaks. What they all mark is unknown but some/most? would be cartridge cases.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archer52 says:

        That is a lie they couldn’t hide. Forensics don’t lie. If they shot “Hundreds of rounds” there are far too many witnesses and physical evidence to suddenly claim 12. If they are lying about that, their whole case and their credibility fall apart. And it’s a lie they don’t have to tell. There would be dozens of police, civilians, forensic people that would have to be involved in a cover up.

        Plus we already know from biker accounts that the first deaths were head and chest shots by bikers on bikers with pistols.

        I assumed dozens of rounds were fired by the police. I’m shocked it was only twelve. That indicates there were DMs involved. But even then I’m not sure. This does show fire discipline.

        It could be when the police showed up, and got out of their cars, they took up positions around the fight and fired at armed suspects. (Which is what I think the police are saying, that they weren’t laying in the bushes ahead of time, but in vehicles down the road and responded and got out -which is consistent with the positioning of the one vehicle in the photos.) Remember, all witnesses said the gunfight lasted four or so minutes. That is not a long time, unless you are in the gunfight!

        If they were staged down the road, the process would be; hearing the gunfire (thinking “holy crap here we go!), firing up the cars, driving to the location, getting out, setting up and then responding, total two minutes tops. Which means, they were in the last two minutes of the gunfight?

        We see cones, we don’t know what those cones signify. I said before they could be impact areas.

        If the police fired 12 that leaves a lot of bullets unaccounted for. We don’t know where the gunfight migrated to either. It may not have been static. Not to mention all the weapons dropped or thrown by the bikers, what is the count now a few hundred?

        Still to many unknowns.

        Like

        • archer52 says:

          But now the Chief is talking, that means we are getting to a final layout of what happened. Up until then he could always lay blame on the PIO and fire him off that assignment. “That dumb SOB, he got it all wrong. He’s in traffic enforcement now!”

          But this is HIS word. Which means the reports are getting finalized and he’s being briefed.

          As far as the arrests, I’m think my MENSA buddy was right. He kind of avoided that a little. My best guess is if the feds share intel, there will be a core group charged, or they may drop the RICO and go with the individual charges. “Your DNA is on this gun. This gun killed Charlie the Biker- your rival. See you in court. Oh, BTW, here your copy of the video showing you doing it.”

          Like

          • Rojas says:

            His word and credibility can be evaluated by the fill in the blank affidavits sworn up by his subordinates.
            The chief can/will blow all the smoke he wants. In fact that’s his job. It’s like the old joke. They’ve already established what they are. Now it’s just a matter of negotiation.
            He wont be providing testimony. He does not have to worry about impeachment at trial from his public statements. His job is to sell this thing.
            Until such time as they start providing actual evidence instead of talking about it he’s just another soap salesman.

            Like

          • lovely says:

            Archer there is no RICO charge.

            Like

          • lorac says:

            there were DMs involved
            What does DMs refer to…? TIA.

            Like

    • BobNoxious says:

      It’s still pure speculation that those cones are marking shell casings.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Burnt Toast says:

        One could also say that it is pure speculation that those are ‘evidence cones’.

        BUT, assuming they are ‘evidence cones’ what might they be marking?
        Cans of ice tea mispackaged as watermelon juice?
        Shoes?
        Cell phones?
        Hats?

        Hmmm, what could they plausibly be?
        Too small to make out in that photo, so it cannot be any of the above…

        Skittles left behind by a mysterious magical unicorn!

        Like

        • geoffb5 says:

          In this picture, next to two cones and a spilled drink cup, center bottom of picture, there appear to be one or maybe two cases.

          Like

          • OP says:

            Near the door what are the 3 blue cones, they aren’t shaped like the orange cones as cylindrical, but with a square base like a pyramid…

            I wonder what those blue cones are marking???

            Like

        • Father Thyme says:

          How about indentations from bullet ricochets made by incoming fire?

          Like

        • lorac says:

          BUT, assuming they are ‘evidence cones’ what might they be marking?
          Cans of ice tea mispackaged as watermelon juice?

          I can’t help it, this is just plain funny! lol

          (although, wouldn’t it be, watermelon juice mispackaged/misunderstood to be ice tea?)

          Like

        • lovely says:

          It’s speculation, reasonable speculation, but speculation just the same. Some of the cones could be by blood drops or splatter that might help define a victims path.

          Like

  11. Josh says:

    “The investigating federal agency on scene was shocked by the severity of the violence and immediately began tampering with the crime scene.”

    “Virtually everyone there was carrying some sort of weapon. Weapons were thrown into piles instead of bagged. Weapons with blood on them were thrown on top of weapons that had been pulled from pockets or saddlebags. No one’s hands were bagged and checked for gunshot residue.”

    “The press showed up within minutes and the cover up began.”
    http://www.agingrebel.com/13021
    h/t michellc

    Liked by 1 person

    • Burnt Toast says:

      So, we are to believe that the cops threw all the evidence into an amnesty box?

      Meh, stranger things have happened.

      Like

      • El Gato says:

        Remember, the only thing anyone is charged with is organized crime. Those are all irreverent to that charge.

        I could not believe it when I heard the Waco Chief of Police say that they had “probable cause” to arrest all 170 on that charge. Really, including the cop, and the reverand?

        I guess it’s possible, but about as likely as Obama lowering taxes to stimulate the economy.

        Like

        • lovely says:

          Actually they have been charged with capital murder and as being part of a criminal organization.

          I don’t believe the story of the weapons all being tossed in a bloody pile.

          Like

  12. manickernel says:

    OK, so several people keep saying 12 rounds did all the damage. But what about 32 rounds fired by bikers, not including revolvers? Are we to assume the bikers are really bad shots even being within a couple of feet of their targets?

    This does show the police did not commit some massacre as so many have been harping on elsewhere. It is still a bit high though under the circumstances within reason.

    The attempts to stretch logic to keep blaming the police baffle me..

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jett Black says:

      This doesn’t show anything, b/c it’s completely contradictory to everything disclosed before, does not appear to line up with objective evidence and makes little if any sense.

      This is a LE massacre, because it was a set up situation, like shooting fish in a barrel. Maybe some bikers kicked it off, independently of the LEOs, by resorting to violence over a parking space, but it was the way LE set up and handled the entire situation that resulted in a parking space argument becoming fatal to 9 people and injurious to many more.

      Do you think the bikers would have gotten wild, if the SWAT MRAP was parked in the open, instead of hidden? If the officers on scene were visible, instead off hiding, waiting for their “shots?” And how about all the completely uninvolved civilians around? So now innocent, mall restaurant patrons and staff are acceptable back-stops for high power rifle fire? The whole thing reeks.

      Liked by 4 people

    • BobNoxious says:

      Good post, Manickernal.

      Like

    • geoffb5 says:

      One amazing thing is the lack of visible damage to either the bikes, the cars parked just behind the bikes, the windows of TW &DC. One, green marked, hole in the TW stone facade. There are fairly high resolution pictures of these things and yet nothing seems to have been hit except people, in the head/neck.

      Liked by 2 people

      • EclecticAK says:

        The most shot-up vehicles were in the Don Carlos parking lot (at least 2 with multiple bullet holes in windshield/rear window) that faced onto the ground-zero patio side of Twin Peaks. Those vehicles were in the ‘white pickup’ row that the cell-phone video shows with all the prone bikers covered by AR-15 armed uniformed Waco PD officers…..

        Like

    • Les says:

      I know I’m not blaming the police so much here, I’m blaming the judge who is keeping so many locked up for so long.

      I read about the judge saying they didn’t want there to be another massacre, but it’s crazy to think it’s fine to lock everyone up to keep them from fighting. If that really worked, half of Baltimore should be in jail.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Jujube22 says:

        That’s the real travesty of this whole mess: that they arrested so many innocent people and kept them locked up for so long. I’m anxious to see the three guys from the Grim Guardians who were arrested in front of Cabela’s (who weren’t even there in time for the shootout) file civil rights lawsuits.

        Like

  13. alan says:

    the cops were to fire inside their cars with long guns…? Rather hard to do, and the casings would perhaps end up IN the cars…

    Liked by 2 people

  14. auscitizenmom says:

    Nope, not buying it.

    Liked by 3 people

  15. Arkindole says:

    I don’t think they mentioned the brass that walked off the scene.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Josh says:

      What’s his definition of “officer”?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jackson says:

      That was my initial reaction to “Stroman said 12 shell casings were fired from police rifles and found on the scene.”

      Liked by 1 person

    • Josh says:

      “I don’t think they mentioned the brass that walked off the scene.”
      Or drove off if the shooting was from inside a vehicle.
      Tx, alan

      Liked by 1 person

    • pspsst says:

      And this too, wounded yellow (Cossack colored) cap with over-large biker cut being escorted off the premises quickly, two LEs with guns at ready either side of him in protective “custody”.

      I find it very hard to believe that there would be no UCs nor CIs working the crowd when the LEs were spotting Twin Peak for RICO “gang” activity. B side of Twin Peaks was spotted by LEs at the least. All along A down to Don Carlos where SUV was located too.

      Bergman, a biker witness, said “Right when we pulled in, we saw officers sitting in patrol cars,” he said. “I really feel like I was led into an ambush.”

      Bergman said he believes there must have been some way police could have warned him and other cyclists before the violence broke out.

      Like

      • BobNoxious says:

        This IS NOT a federal RICO case.

        Engaging in Organized Criminal Activity, a Texas state criminal statute, does not require the use of undercover officers or informants to prove a case.

        Liked by 1 person

        • pspsst says:

          Untrue. It CAN BE RICO.

          It starts at the bottom rung and if it fails at state level, it can be upped to federal level especially if the claim is inter-state gang activity. Please don’t tell us there was no undercover in a big salivating netful like this! You can smell the desperation by the RICO of all RICOs from the moon they inhabit.

          Like

          • lovely says:

            Yes I posted a link about how this could possibly become a RICO case, no one has said that it can’t. Right now no one has been charged under RICO.

            Like

            • EclecticAK says:

              What could possibly invite the feds in and make it RICO is some of the arrested (at least one Bandido from Oklahoma) were from out of state…… that right there drops it in the FBI’s lap…..

              Like

              • lovely says:

                From an attorney’s page, it has an explanation of LE’s reasons for the arrests and lays out a very broad defense against the charges. One of the arguments is that the arresting document does not present allegations of documented activity of criminal conduct by either “criminal street gang.”

                He also reiterates that an arrest occurs at a much lower standard of probable cause of than a judge or jury must decide.

                He takes Swanton to task for implying only the guilty were arrested.

                Reads like a pretty good defense firm.

                Here is what is said about federal charges;

                Are federal charges possible?

                Federal Prosecution for Criminal Street Gangs
                The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 created 18 U.S.C.A. § 521 entitled “Criminal Street Gangs” which allows for punishment enhancements of up to ten years for the commission of certain offenses by criminal street gang members. A criminal street gang is defined as an ongoing association of five or more persons that has as one of its primary purposes the commission of certain criminal offenses, its members have engaged in a continuing series of such offenses within the past five years, and such activities affect interstate or foreign commerce. 18 U.S.C.A. § 521(a). Notice that these are punishment enhancements, so federal agents would first seek indictments on an underlying criminal offense, such as a conspiracy to distribute narcotics.

                Federal RICO Prosecutions

                The federal government may also seek to prosecute individuals for RICO violations, or violations prosecuted under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. RICO charges are centralized through the Organized Crime and Gang Section of the Criminal Division of the United States Attorney’s Office. One reason the federal government may pick up prosecution of serious allegations involving organized crime if the allegations consist of violations of State law, but local law enforcement officials are unlikely or unable to successfully prosecute the case, in which the federal government has a significant interest.

                Like

  16. Don Butler says:

    It seems that we are now expected to formulate opinions with 10% of the evidence. No eye witnesses and no ballistic or autopsy reports. It seems every high profile case these days begins with dubious claims backed by little or no evidence.

    However, I formed an opinion when Swanton claimed that he couldn’t release any details but, (paraphrased), “we saved lives here today”. To me that meant they shot the bad guys. He went on to say that it could be months before we see ballistics reports. I’ve learned to trust nothing.

    Like

  17. pspsst says:

    Decorated war vet critical of Waco police actions

    “I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” Devoll said. “It was the most unorganized, unprofessional thing I’ve ever been a part of.”

    Devoll says he was a passenger in a pickup that had just pulled into the Twin Peaks parking lot, when he heard gunfire.

    “I heard a few rounds of handgun fire and then, I would say, an overbearing suppressing fire of M-4 rounds,” Devoll said.

    “As they came from the Twin Peaks parking lot, about halfway through, is where they started engaging the group of individuals that were in the front,” Devoll said

    http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/texas-news/2015/06/11/twin-peaks-shooting-police-witness/71090750/

    So………..the suppressed fire was to go unrecognized by the regular independent joe biker witnesses, rounds easily hid after the fact………by LEs present before, during and after the massacre. How easily “we” can be fooled.

    If you read at the link further, the witness notes the M-4, or assault rifle fire was from a large group of police stationed on the perimeter of the parking lot, moving in on the group of bikers next to Twin Peaks.

    The police according to Strawman shot from their cars, so what is he then inferring out of his narrative? that it was a drive-by police shooting?

    Like

    • DelAware says:

      ““I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” Devoll said. “It was the most unorganized, unprofessional thing I’ve ever been a part of.”

      So response to a bunch of organized crime thugs is supposed to be organized and professional?

      Maybe on HBO. Jesus with a light saber, you guys should come to Wilmington, Camden, Philly, and Chester and see what it’s like, living around this kind of person and trying to keep your kids safe!

      Like

      • El Gato says:

        What kind of person? The bikers? Or the police?

        The bikers were mostly working stiffs, one reverend and one policeman, maybe retired,from Austin, an hour south of Waco. One 65 y/o guy, whose name was Jesus was one of those killed. He didn’t belong to any motorcycle club. He was just attending a meeting of clubs and concerned bikers, a meeting that was both regular and publisized in advance. Some organized crime group.

        Like

    • libtardh8r says:

      Just to clarify…the statement you quoted mentioned “suppressing fire’, not “suppressed fire”. I take that to mean that many rounds were fired by many weapons with the purpose of cowing the perps, not rounds fired through a rifle with a suppressor.

      Like

      • pspsst says:

        It would be the first time I heard reference to “suppression” fire – act of keeping enemy heads down low and unable to retaliate. There was an earlier mention of suppressors on LE rifles, photos too, and another ex-marine having heard suppressed gun fire as in quietened fire – which is exact opposite of suppression fire intended to frighten the enemy into submission. Suppressed fire and suppression fire are both dangerous in a crowded patio. You may be right though that the witness is citing suppression fire by police.

        Liked by 1 person

        • wrongonred says:

          See, I am not sure which the reporter intended as there is “suppressed fire” (use of a sound suppression device) or “suppression fire” (intended to prevent incoming fire to give cover for movements). There is no such thing I am aware of called “Suppressing Fire”. Given that, it is hard to know what Devoll actually meant. I would wager he likely used to correct term and the reporter chose an incorrect term and misquoted. That said, if his account was of “suppressed fire” it would be in line with other reports as well.

          Liked by 1 person

          • pspsst says:

            Suppression fire, as in giving cover for escape or run to “participants” ensconced in the danger? That may be exactly what the witness. an experience military soldier, meant.

            Like

            • El Gato says:

              The proper term is “suppressive fire”. But the guy could easily have been misquoted as saying “suppressing”, when he, as a former Marine, said “suppressive”

              Like

    • pspsst says:

      Last sentence is inferred.

      “All Waco police officers were inside their vehicles at the time the shooting started at Twin Peaks, the release says.”

      L.O.O.K C.A.R.E.F.U.L.L.Y

      “Waco police … say their officers were in the right. In fact, they’ve said they were being fired upon and returned fire to both protect themselves and the other innocent people.” (from http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/texas-news/2015/06/11/twin-peaks-shooting-police-witness/71090750/)

      So the LEs jumped out of their cars into line of fire from gangs with no injuires? Upon doing so, rapidly, shooting as or after they exited cop cars, the ruthless bikers, all 150 stopped shooting and went down on ground. If they didn’t exit cars then LE shot from within their cars.

      Where are the bullet holes to LE windshield and were there any cones at this location?

      Liked by 1 person

      • manickernel says:

        So a picture at or near the end of the event is supposed to tell us where they were at the beginning? As for bullet holes in windshields or elsewhere, I have yet to see any that are of high enough resolution on those facing vehicles to determine whether any of them were hit. I do think it plausible none of the police were hit as the bikers would have been focused on themselves, not the police, until several started dropping.

        After recent events, I also hope the police are smart enough not to release raw video as no matter what it shows some are going to only see it as a full blown massacre by police. They need to release it unedited, but with stop frame indicating who and what is being shot at from where.

        I am not trying to totally absolve the police, and actions since the event have been a clusterfrack, but at least I am willing to believe what they are saying until something proves otherwise, rather than the opposite.

        Liked by 1 person

      • wrongonred says:

        How did the biker shoot at them if they were in their cars? I would assume then they should have pics of bullet ridden public videos? The Bikers just decided to start firing on unmarked vehicles of individuals who they do not know, all of these individuals are unscathed? I am calling BS

        Like

        • wrongonred says:

          *bullet riddled public vehicles….damn autocorrect!

          Like

        • Good observation.. Police hidden in their vehicle being shot at. Hmm.. Nobody shot at police, if the bikers were shooting ( likely ) they Were not looking for police, they were fighting, aka, tunnel vision

          Like

          • wrongonred says:

            My thoughts exactly. They would not wantonly be shooting at people in vehicles randomly, which would be entirely counter to what they were supposedly doing.

            Like

          • OP says:

            “Waco police … say their officers were in the right. In fact, they’ve said they were being fired upon and returned fire to both protect themselves and the other innocent people.”

            ^^^^^^^^^^
            Read above….the police has changed the narrative to suit their cause….they have added to protect innocent people….they know good and damn well THEY were not fired upon.

            So we have been told:

            1: That a total of 3 Waco police officers fired…total shots 12…(averaging 4 shots per cop) all shooting was done from the safety of their car, with a high calibre rifle.

            Q: Which of these 3 officers were shot at? Or should we assume police logic…take an area…any area…surround it with LEO…360 degrees of cops…in the center is a person who has fired a shot…one shot…anywhere, in any direction…he has TECHNICALLY SHOT AT THE POLICE.

            TWISTED logic but this is really what they are saying to JUSTIFY “their RETURNING fire” of 12 bullets by three officers….

            2: To the cut and paste statement above…the statement is “they’ve said” they were fired upon. “They have said”….

            Q: Interesting…past tense…as if he isn’t speaking with the cops involved, he is instead with lawyers…combing the oral and written statements by Swanton…they also have the video and audio of the shooting. It probably has CONVENIENTLY only recorded shots that were made by conventional firearms with out suppressors, it is likely the audio/video is being used to set their NEW narrative…

            They have thrown out Swanton with the dirty bath water…the new narrative will suit the audio/video….and the autopsy report if the large calibre death wounds, and injuries.

            3: Also in the picture that PSPPT posted….the one cop in the right of the picture with a rifle…it appears to me he is putting SOMETHING in his left pocket. Brass?

            Q: Since there is NO ONE besides the Waco police investigating the actions of the Waco police…why have we heard NOTHING from any other agency? Why are the other agencies frightenly quiet…did they ONLY appear on the scene after the 12 shots?

            According to Swanton, he implied they were there during the fire fight.

            What LEO agencies were on location when the Magic 12 bullets were fired?

            Does the Waco police “speak” for the DPS? Or the ATF? Or any of the other agencies out there?

            4: I find it very odd…that this much fire power at a location (evident after the 12 magic shots) ….that we are to believe that after one biker bullet leaves a hand gun, the Waco police who were sitting in their cars with their windows down, happened to have the PERFECT angle to shoot at the bikers.

            Trajectory evidence will be interesting…if we ever get to see THAT!

            Q: I want to know where were their cars and WHICH window did they fire from? Did each of the three cops have their own car, how many cop cars were used with the three cops?

            5: 3 cops….and with 12 magic bullets (high calibre), killed 9 (ok I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt,,,they killed 4 remember we are to believe the evil bikers killed one another too)…So of the magic bullets…12 were fired…let’s assume 4 of the 12 were killing bullets…that leaves 8 to have injured the other bikers.

            I think the angle the police are angling for is this….they know they were firing their handguns, they picked up their own brass…they threw out the red herring of the revolvers to explain away any hang gun slugs retrieved from the injured or dead. That these slugs can’t be traced because the brass is in the revolver and since there is no SA BRASS at the scene…any retrieved lead HAD TO BE FIRED from a revolver.

            They scoured that scene for DAYS….and days, they picked up every piece of police brass…and now threw out the “well it’s the revolvers fault…it kept the brass we need for evidence…knowing that any empty brass left in a revolver can never be proved or disproved as being fired at Waco that day.

            They know the autopsy is going to show a quantity 12 high calibre hits on the bodies or victims….or obvious audio on a tape when you can count the 12.

            The fact the police are bringing up revolvers….I find that interesting…they are rarely carried by the police, if at all…police like their SA…glocks etc….

            So why did they bring it up? It will support their new narrative…

            Q: How many injured bikers were “shot” by the remaining cop magic bullets? How many were shot by a handgun?

            6: I posted a link about one biker who was shot thru the arm and the bullet paced thru his torso and exited his body….that was a high power rifle…not a revolver.

            Q: Has anyone seen any other details concerning bullet injuries of the wounded?

            Like

            • wrongonred says:

              Very few, police or civilian, carry wheel guns anymore. I also find the reference to revolvers to be odd as well. How many revolvers really could have been involved? As you say, I am sure their standard issue is a Glock or a Sig, not a wheel gun. Something is very odd about that.

              Like

  18. Josh says:

    “A Dallas forensic institute responsible for bodies, ATF for ballistics and FBI for the video in the case, Stroman says”

    Like

  19. Josh says:

    I have not read this yet.
    Is it related to this discussion? I don’t know.
    Final Report of The President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing
    http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/PolicingTaskForce

    Like

  20. patrickhenryrevisited says:

    Sounds a lot like a, ‘we din do nuffin rong’ song.

    Like

  21. geoffb5 says:

    With this there are now at least 4 different accounts. The Rashomon effect is here along with actual lies to further muddy the waters of Waco II.

    Like

    • crispyjoe says:

      Yeah, I am beginning to think the info coming from the Aging Rebel is just as misleading as the Swanton’s press conferences.

      Liked by 1 person

    • BobNoxious says:

      That version is comical & written by someone who has watched too many action movies.

      A couple gems from that article:

      laying down suppressing fire from FN-90s

      Other officers shouldered M-16s and waded into the fray calling to each other as they wounded or killed the combatants. “One down! Another down!”

      That is just laughable.

      Liked by 2 people

      • TheLastDemocrat says:

        FN-90: the round has much lower likelihood of overshoot than a .223.

        That fits my thoughts noted above that they may have picked a .223 round for frangability / lower likelihood of overpenetration.

        Like

      • wrongonred says:

        There were pictures of FN P90s being carried by deputies on scene by the McLellan Co Sheriffs Department. Whether or not they were actually fired, I do not know. I believe the FN PS90, which is the non-rock and roll version, only came out this year, so it is entirely likely that those FNs were P90s that could rock and roll.

        Like

  22. oldiadguy says:

    From the agingrebel.com.

    http://www.agingrebel.com/13015

    “One hundred seventy-six people were arrested and held on bail of $1 million each. In order to meet that bail amount, each of the defendants would be required to pay a bail bondsman a fee of $100,000. So effectively, police were able to impose a punishment of a $100,000 fine by fiat. As of June 3, the average listing price of all homes in Waco was $170,181.”

    Add the towing and storage fees for their vehicles.

    It is looking more and more like many if not most of the “arrests” were punitive in nature.

    Take Care

    Liked by 1 person

    • pspsst says:

      $375 per month ankle monitors.

      The goal is to severely bankrupt these law-abiding bikers and put tjem out of commission……while enriching the state and feds.

      Liked by 1 person

      • oldiadguy says:

        I don’t know about enriching anyone but the tow company, the bondsmen and the company supplying the ankle monitors, but they sure are trying to bankrupt the “suspects” they arrested.

        Take Care

        Like

  23. Well lets see, we went from thousands of rounds & and near the same count on weapons to 12 rounds by Waco PD.
    Also, considering that it is legal to carry rifles in vehicles, & handguns on ones person ( legally ), knifes are not illegal either. Machete & a axe? A pipe? They may as well add in the spare tire as a weapon. Still a poor statement, still a illegal action to hold everyone as long as they have.. RICO, works, when it’s employed from the inside out, warrants are served, arrest are made, nobody dies ( usually ) ( exactly how Indiana broke up the Indy chapter of outlaws ) waco is so inept that now they are playing the “it will take months for ballistics card” uh, no it doesn’t. Waco states this is a special case, well, give it special consideration for all evidence reports & coroners reports. The dead bikers, along with crime scene evidence should have yielded considerable ballistics in some form. Seems like more smoke & mirrors, more misinformation. I hope for the sake of mankind & our country, that I’m wrong… I mean they have had nearly a calender month & this is what they said? Amazing…

    Liked by 3 people

    • manickernel says:

      Hey, the never found the Trident. Wonder where it ended up. Tomahawk is cool though.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Father Thyme says:

        What surprised me was when they said they found weapons buried in the ground around Twin Peaks restaurant. That might be construed as premeditation by one group or the other. depending on what weapons were found.

        Like

        • manickernel says:

          Possibly. I have a feeling most of those were knives that got “buried” while the bikers were sitting around on their cell phones and such. Many of them were on the bank, and the cops were not exactly keeping them under close supervision.

          Liked by 3 people

        • Jujube22 says:

          Maybe they found the pipe buried underground? Part of Twin Peaks plumbing?

          What I want to know is how many people were STABBED? They said people were stabbed originally. They found knives. How many victims were stabbed?

          Like

    • pspsst says:

      The release also states the number of weapons discovered at the crime scene has increased to 475 at this time “and may continue to increase.

      Stand by. Obama in the Situation Room with ValJar (HUD Realtor extraordinaire, Slum Lord) advising. Question posed to Executive Office: Should we consider a 10 oz 225gm weight jar of Grandma MC’s special strawberry gift preserve found in a Waco biker’s satchel a dangerous weapon?

      Liked by 1 person

      • wrongonred says:

        If that is not the biggest bunch of bullsnot. 3 weeks after the fact and they still have not counted all of the weapons? And how are weapons secured in vehicles in any way related? Given they were in vehicles, that would seem like prima facie evidence that the owner had not intention or forethought about being in an altercation, since if they had, they would not have left them in there.

        Liked by 3 people

        • pspsst says:

          Dragging out the metal detectors to scope walls (/sarc) and outdoor mulch 3 weeks after the event is desperate too. It’s as if they didn’t get enough utensils in the first round after the count dropped from 1000 to 300. They are working way past overtime just as the Chief claims digging up nonsense.

          Like

    • EclecticAK says:

      In my SUV there are 2 pry bars, a ball pein hammer, a lug wrench, several LARGE combination wrenches and crescent wrenches, probably a half-dozen various sized knives and box-cutters and a bunch of flares (incindeiary devices)…… considering I carry 1 or 2 handguns on my person and a couple of knives I guess I’d be good for over 25 “weapons” all by my lonesome….. 😉

      Liked by 1 person

  24. Millwright says:

    Just responding to a couple of post here regarding “over-penetration” of the .223 round. First, I’d opine its far more likely the POs and/or “snipers” were using the 5.56 mm round and yes there are some critical differences. A majority of those with current experience with the 5.56 in home defense or ‘residential clearing ops’ all seem to be of the opinion both the 5.56mm and .223 cal. rounds present less of an “over-penetration” threat than the more popular handgun cartridges.

    Without going all ‘gun-techie’ the long gun bullets are impacting at higher velocity and bullet rpm. Its the latter (somewhere in vicinity of 280K rpm likely for the cop’s rifles) that makes a bullet ‘break up’ relatively rapidly after contact with any object at the normal muzzle velocity of 3200 + fps with the usual 62 gr. military fodder. By comparison a .45 ACP usually uses 230 gr. ammo ambling along at 800 fps and only a couple of thousand rpm is noted for its penetration. But visit here
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/ask-foghorn-barrel-twist-and-which-is-right-for-your-ar-15/

    BTW, I’ve shot the same caliber bullet (from a different case) for decades.

    Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      Agreed. Even if it holds together it stands a good chance of going in at the shoulder and exiting at the anus. One thing that does bother me though, the fact that regular law enforcement are carrying fully automatic select fire. Now that is the kind of “over-militarization” I am very much against.

      Liked by 2 people

    • archer52 says:

      In proven tests the .556 has less penetration than a standard 9mm FMJ in material inside houses.

      In fact, SWAT teams went away from 9mm for that reason. They found 9mm went through walls and wood quite easily. In response, bullet manufactures designed bullets just for police work.

      One of those is the Hornady TAP round.

      We used it in a shooting of a suspect in an armed robbery. The bullet didn’t go through the suspect, but broke apart when it hit his shoulder. Nasty. It is designed to not penetrate through the body.

      If the suspects were hit main body mass by a TAP type round, especially wearing a jacket or leather, it could be that none of the bullets passed through. On the other hand, we don’t know who got shot with what, all we really know is the police fired 12 rounds and there are more dead and wounded than that by far.

      But I can attest to the TAP working as designed.

      Like

  25. archer52 says:

    In response to the frustration of not getting all the facts out at once. Yes, it is frustrating to some.

    Understandable to others.

    Yes, the big layout is coming, but not before they can really get the details right- for the exact example shown here.

    We’ve went to maniac police massacring innocent bikers- to machine gunning indiscriminately hundreds of rounds-to bikers actually starting a deadly gunfight- to multiple bikers killing and attacking each other- to only bad guys getting hit-

    and now to now three officers with twelve bullets….

    At what point do we accept Rumsfeld’s rule of unknowns and quit assuming the police here are the bad guys.

    The more we know, the more it seems the police did their best to eliminate the shooting by stopping the meeting (again, did they have informants?), to staging in plain view so the bikers were be persuaded not to do something stupid, to reacting in a very limited fashion.

    It has to be apparent by now a good number of the deaths and injuries were caused by callous, deadly, out of control 1%ers bikers shooting guns in a place where innocent people were located. Not weekend Harley riders that just like to dress up to be cool.

    And they did it in full view of the police. At what point, again I ask, do we openly put blame on them for what they did? Make them take the accountability and responsibility. Think about the mindset that convinces a person they have the RIGHT to open fire, risking bystanders, over a slight (or an ambush, still to be determined). Still..

    They could have just said no guns, no killing no risk to anyone. They could have had a shootout in the sticks where only bikers were possible victims. They could have. All they had to do is not pull a trigger.

    But here we are.

    Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      Read an article a week or so ago where it quoted a lawyer that had represented Bandidos in the past. His assertion was that the claim from Cossacks that they were going to discuss the rocker issue at this meeting and extended and invitation as laughable. Those discussions would only take place between top members and not at a public place with any non-patch holders around. While I am no fan of Bandidos by any means, I find this reasonable which leads me to believe the Cossacks did show up early with the intent of starting trouble, they just ended up getting a bit more than they bargained for.

      Like

      • coeurdaleneman says:

        Reading between the lines of your post, I get the impression that the Bandidos were the victims of a preplanned plot, and mainly reacted in self-defense.

        Even given the sketchy and unreliable information dribbled out by WPD, I tentatively tend to agree. But then why round up victims en masse?

        I’ll give WPD about 10 more days to do their duty and provide the basics. I’ve been more than fair and patient. (I still haven’t accused any of the shooters of wrongdoing, for example.) After that,, though, I’m writing them off as a politically-corrupted entity and will suspect the worst. They’re hiding too much. There are some shenanigans going on behind the scenes … no other explanation at this point in their self-investigation.

        Liked by 3 people

  26. lovely says:

    Did Stroman give 2 press conferences? (I am beat and a bit fuzzy brained).

    Just a few observations, Chief Stroman seemed straight forward.

    The police did not kill all the bikers.

    I only heard Stroman say that there were not snipers pre-positioned, but maybe I’ve missed something.

    By 3 accounts, LE, Bandidos and Cossacks, it was the bikers who started the gunfire.

    LE did not engage in a shootout from their cars nor did Stroman say that they did.

    The Engaging in Organized Criminal Activity charge Penal code 71.02 opens a lot of doors for the DA, I suspect in Texas it is called the F*Me Penal Code.

    This has been mishandled as far as the information that LE has given to the public and the manner in which it has been given.

    The “may continue to find weapons” is a very curious statement, it can mean one of two things that investigators are still searching the TP area and the motorcycles and other vehicles impounded. Or it could mean that because of 71.02 that search warrants are being executed and evidence from elsewhere is being tied in to the the Capital murder charges. I am guessing it is the latter.

    Like

    • pspsst says:

      All this “Engaging in Organized Criminal Activity charge Penal code 71.02” and yet, not one single undercover LE was enlisted to gather data and tracking in amongst the biker crowd? No under cover cameras and iphones on transmitting interactions and spotting? At the least there were two UC’s or CI’s. Let’s be real.

      Like

  27. lovely says:

    I am ever more inclined to think that the officers shooting were very disciplined and probably had a plan or at least knew who had the cleanest safest shots and those officers made the best shots that they could in a very chaotic dangerous situation.

    Somehow an awful lot of bikers made it to very near police officers without getting shot. So it is safe to say that the officers were not shooting at anyone who looked like a biker but were very discriminate in their shooting.

    Ps. I didn’t see a single picture of an officer in a balaclava 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  28. DFW63 says:

    Waco PD fired 12 shots? Okay, fine.
    Tell me about ATF, DHS, FBI, please.
    Also, were any of the agents/managers/directors or actors involved in killing the women and children at Mt Carmel and involved in the Twin Peaks event?

    Liked by 1 person

  29. John Galt says:

    “So far a total of 44 casings have been recovered, but Stroman said that total doesn’t include any casings that remain inside revolvers that were fired.”

    If they can count to 12, they should be able to count up to 6, right?

    Like

    • pspsst says:

      Doesn’t include casings that remain inside revolvers that were fired…….leaves Stroman “room” to apologize should it be outed that LEs did shoot more than 12 times.

      Like

  30. BobNoxious says:

    re: confusion surrounding the statement about the officers being in their cars…

    Here’s the quote:

    All Waco police officers were inside their vehicles at the time the shooting started at Twin Peaks, the release says.”

    This does not mean the officers were firing from inside their vehicles; it simply means they were in their vehicles (as opposed to propositioned on the roof, or elsewhere outside) when the shooting started. It logically follows that they exited their vehicles after the shots broke out, and after exiting their vehicles, three officers fired a total of 12 rounds.

    Liked by 3 people

    • pspsst says:

      It does not mean that police exited and then shot.

      All it means is exactly that………..the police were in their cars when the shooting started. I very strongly doubt that the cop car windows were up while parked. The statement Stroman made does not mean police did not shoot from their cars. Shells inside the cars would sort of, kind of, just leave the premises when the cop cars left. Which is why I ask, where are the cones because one witness stated he heard suppressing volley from the LEs as he took cover on the ground. He had just arrived in his truck. He was later booked for no reason and had to pay bond. Those laying on the ground near the cops were booked? How is it they are so dangerous to justify $1mln bond at the outset when IF THEY HAD BEEN DANGEROUS AND ARMED, they would have returned fire instead of flattening out on the pavement like scared civilians at a BBQ.

      Like

  31. LadyRavenSDC says:

    https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/why-all-americans-should-be-concerned-about-waco/
    “This is an issue that impacts core constitutional principles and the viability of the criminal justice system.”

    Like

  32. pspsst says:

    Chief is still scoping out the Twin Peaks area to find those dastardly revolvers because out of 450 odd weapons retrieved and 150 odd guns, they

    1 ) still can’t match the bullets which killed the nine slain or

    2 ) they need time to buy out MEs and what not persons, etc., sort and pin a gun with autopsied bullets and frame several of the bikers and some of them have “records” which will come in handy, gnome sayin’?

    The question is, will LEs be so destroyed by federal establishment inside jobs and media enabled plots or will LEs and military find their way home? Remember Courtland before you claim LE as county entities (not lone LEs) above the insidious fray.

    Like

  33. lovely says:

    About the bond.

    The million dollar bond is being portrayed as unconstitutional,

    Texas Rules for setting bond

    CC17.15

    The amount of bail to be required in any case is to be regulated by the court, judge, magistrate or officer taking the bail; they are to be governed in the exercise of this discretion by the Constitution and by the following rules:

    The bail shall be sufficiently high to give reasonable assurance that the undertaking will be complied with.

    8*2. The power to require bail is not to be so used as to make it an instrument of oppression.**

    3. The nature of the offense and the circumstances under which it was committed are to be considered

    4. The ability to make bail is to be regarded, and proof may be taken upon this point.

    5. The future safety of a victim of the alleged offense and the community shall be considered

    According to the Waco Tribune, Peterson (Justice of the Peace Bond setter) said I think it is important to send a message… We had nine people killed in our community. These people just came in, and most of them were from out of town. Very few of them were from in town

    This obviously violates:

    *2. The power to require bail is not to be so used as to make it an instrument of oppression**

    So my guess is that there is more to the story of the bond amount than the MSM has knowledge of and the DA is not releasing that evidence. And the more to it lies in Penal code 71.01.

    I think there is a strong case that the bond is excessive for some of the arrested.

    That said if the the 71.01 Engaging in Organized Criminal Activity remains, then the bond may be Constitutional;

    This is why they are being charge under EIOC

    Sec. 71.02. ENGAGING IN ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

    A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit one or more of the following:

    Link to save bandwidth

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.71.htm

    Texas Law is “in for a little in for the whole” .The DA is going to be connecting evidence that ties the individuals to the capital murder charges because of their participation/membership in an organization which LE defines as a criminal organization which means legally that at least some of the bikers, even those who did not participate in the violence at TP are participants in the “Capital murder” not because they are members of a club i.e. “Shriners” but because they are members of a criminal organization ( intent to establish, maintain, or participate in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang), which will of course have to be proven in a court of law by the prosecutor.

    If the prosecutor satisfies the legal threshold of proving the Bandidos and the Cossacks are criminal organizations the bikers are in a precarious legal position.

    This is going to be a massive connect the evidence case.

    IMO it is simply not so cut and dried and some would like to believe.

    Like

  34. EclecticAK says:

    I will just leave this here…… http://www.agingrebel.com/13024 What do you think?

    Like

  35. Josh says:

    Forwarded a couple emails sundance. SMH …

    Like

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