According To Experts…Trayvon Martin’s Heart Kept Pumping After Shooting – (Video)

This latest article from The Orlando Sentincl backs up what George Zimmerman told the police…

(Orlando Sentinel)…George Zimmerman may have shot Trayvon Martin in the heart, but that didn’t kill him instantly.  The 17-year-old survived for several minutes, according to two experts who reviewed Trayvon’s autopsy for the Orlando Sentinel.  “You’re talking about minutes, at least, for him to survive,” said Dr. William Anderson, a forensic specialist and former deputy medical examiner for Orange and Osceola counties. “I think he would have been conscious … for a little time, anyway.”

What killed the Miami Gardens teenager was massive internal bleeding, said Anderson and Dr. William L. Manion, a board-certified anatomical, clinical and forensic pathologist and lawyer in Mount Holly, N.J. At first they thought it was because of poor treatment by the medical assistance and the parents were ready to call medical negligence uk, but in the end it was just the body´s malfunction to the bullets.

At 7:17 p.m. on Feb. 26, the bullet that killed Trayvon entered his chest square-on, just to the left of his breastbone, according to his autopsy. It punched a hole in his right ventricle, the lower right chamber of the heart, and broke into three pieces.  The bullet’s lead core — the bulkiest part — was found just behind his heart, still inside the pericardium, the sac that contains that organ. Two other fragments were found next to his right lung, which had been perforated and collapsed, the report said.  When Sanford firefighters arrived 10 minutes later, at 7:27 p.m., firefighter Stacey Livingston checked him over.

During an interview March 24 with agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Livingston said: “He had a small bullet hole in his chest area that wasn’t even bleeding,”  Not on the outside.  Inside, however, his chest cavity had filled with 2,300 milliliters of blood, according to the autopsy. That’s about one-third of a healthy person’s total blood volume, Anderson said.

Trayvon’s heart had kept pumping, both pathologists said, but with each contraction, blood was leaking or gushing into his chest, depending on the size of the bullet hole.  The two doctors agreed that Trayvon remained conscious for a time. Anderson suggested the teenager may have been conscious for several minutes. Manion estimated it at just 20 to 30 seconds.  “He certainly would have experienced pain,” Manion said.  The Miami Gardens teenager would have remained alive for a few minutes, both doctors agreed, as his wounded heart continued to pump.

One piece of evidence that Trayvon did not die instantly, both doctors said, was the color of his fingernails.  Shiping Bao, the associate medical examiner in Volusia County who performed the autopsy, wrote that Trayvon had “cyanotic nail beds.” That means they had turned blue, something that happens when there’s not enough oxygen in the blood.  Because Trayvon’s heart was weakened by blood loss and dropping blood pressure, it could no longer pump blood to his lungs. That means vital organs, including the heart, were no longer receiving the oxygen-rich blood they needed.

His heart eventually went into defibrillation, Manion said. That means the muscle fibers within it continued to contract but no longer in the regular rhythm needed to sustain life.  A few minutes after that, the last signs that a heart could be revived — electrical signals — would have ceased as well, Anderson said.

Resuscitation attempts

According to Sanford police, officers arrived less than a minute after Zimmerman shot Trayvon and began administering CPR, although records do not show how quickly that happened.  Sgt. Anthony Raimondo checked for a pulse and breathing but found neither, he wrote in his report.  He told a bystander to get some plastic wrap to cover the bullet hole, and someone handed him a plastic bag, which officers placed over the wound. Officer Ricardo Ayala then began chest compressions and Raimondo began mask-to-mouth resuscitation, according to police reports.

Firefighters arrived 10 minutes after the shooting, according to their incident report. They checked for breathing and a pulse, firefighter Tyler Rochefort later told FDLE agents, but found neither.  Two other firefighters slapped electrodes on Trayvon’s body, checking for electrical heart impulses. Their monitor picked up a few electrical pulses, Sanford paramedic Mike Brandy wrote in his report. He watched for an estimated 30 seconds, then pronounced Trayvon dead, he told FDLE agents during an interview March 27.  The official time of death was 7:30 p.m., 13 minutes after the shooting.

Anderson and Manion said there was virtually no chance Trayvon could have survived.  “You can’t fix a ruptured ventricle,” Manion said. “There’s no way to fix it out in the field like that.”

Witness accounts

There is other evidence that Trayvon survived for a short time. One witness told authorities that after the shooting Trayvon moved his leg.  Then there is Zimmerman’s account. In a re-enactment for Sanford police the following day, the 28-year-old Neighborhood Watch volunteer said Trayvon moved and talked after he was wounded.  “I didn’t think I hit him because he sat up and said, ‘OK, you got me. You got it. You got me. You got it,’ something like that,” Zimmerman said.

What else had he said, police Investigator Doris Singleton had asked during an earlier interrogation at police headquarters.  “Ow, ow,” Zimmerman said.

Zimmerman is free on $1 million bond, awaiting trial on a second-degree-murder charge.

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88 Responses to According To Experts…Trayvon Martin’s Heart Kept Pumping After Shooting – (Video)

  1. arkansasmimi says:

    As sad as it is to know this, I do believe it helps GZ.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Yes, it helps. Once again George’s statements are confirmed. Just like when he sad he spread out Trayvon’s arms once he leaned over him right after the shooting. The “accidentally” released crime scene photo proves that, at least as far as his right arm (the only one there’s enough light to see) is concerned.

      George is definitely guilty. Guilty of telling the truth… over and over and over and….

      Like

    • Kit says:

      Another young thug bleeds out in his own chest from a bullet wound.

      You reap what you sow. *SHRUG*

      NO_LIMIT_NIGGA found the edge of his limitations. He should have listened to Dirty Harry.

      Like

    • Damn, does Rene ever look in a mirror?

      Like

  2. boricuafudd says:

    It certainly remove one more item of contention that the Trayvon supporters were using against GZ, saying he was lying. In that regard it is helpful but if GZ is found guilty that will be used against him, his suffering before dying. Just watch as the people will be saying about how poor TM was lying in the rain dying and GZ did not try to resuscitate him or how much he must have suffered during those last few minutes or seconds. This will be turned around to a negative very soon, I can almost guarantee it.

    Like

  3. waltherppk says:

    A few tens of seconds yeah, maybe a couple of those tens conscious, …several minutes no.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      For George’s statements to be true, all that’s needed is maybe 15-20 seconds. Like you, I also doubt the one guy was accurate when he said it could be “several minutes”. I doubt very much it was that long. But 30 seconds or so?…. yeah, that I can see.

      Like

  4. Zack Larson says:

    Another “murder 2” case gets thrown out under SYG. In her ruling, the Judge justifies her dismissal under SYG indicating that theer was no evidence to indicate who started the confrontation, and no witnesses to the incident. There is far more evidence in Zimmerman’s case to justify a dismissal, yet for political purposes, George is a sacrificial lamb.
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/17/2956670/miami-dade-judge-tosses-murder.html

    Like

    • landaumurphyfan says:

      From the article: “It was not the first murder case Bloom has tossed out under the state’s controversial Stand Your Ground law, which gained national notoriety after the killing of Trayvon Martin, a Miami Gardens teen killed in Sanford by a self-styled neighborhood watchman.”

      Gee, how many biased inaccuracies can the journo-scum fit into a single sentence?

      Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Killed his brother in a fight – that is indeed tough. In the case of GZ/TM, the facts show that GZ was viciously attacked by a punk who was trying to prove his “macho” capability by attacking an person walking in a Gated Community. The lesson here? If you are a punk, and choose to “punch out” a person you dislike – you might be shot by the person you attacked.

      Like

  5. p3p3p3p3 says:

    I don’t know about you folks but it was the first real straight forward presentation that I “heard” from Rene, and after the “garbage” I read from her and Jeff Weiner, it surprised me, being accurate and scientific without any spin whatsoever, an honest statement that I agreed with, just wondering if some of the false narrative they crafted is having to fall away because of Discovery facts, meaning they are accepting what GZ said now

    Like

    • boricuafudd says:

      I would not jump on that ship, yet. A clock is right 2x a day and all of those cliches, the point is wait for the follow-ups before you decide.

      Like

      • p3p3p3p3 says:

        my opinion was not in a solid “decide” camp, but more of looking at it as a boat of public opinion, if the large majority of folks on the boat were all on the left side so to speak, then we’d say/see the boat over weighted and loaded left, as factual information comes out, opinion shifts and now the boat is more balanced and even(handed approach)

        just an impression to share
        🙂

        Like

    • jello333 says:

      But I doubt they’re changing their tunes because they’ve suddenly realized Crump et al are lying, or that George is actually a good guy. I think they’d LOVE to still be crucifying him. The only reason (IMO) they’re starting to be more honest is that they see the train coming straight at Team Crump…. a train carrying MASSIVE lawsuits that are gonna take out a whole bunch of people. And some in the media are trying to now pretend they weren’t part of that conspiracy against George, hoping that that will shield them from the lawsuits to come.

      Like

      • p3p3p3p3 says:

        lawsuits can come from both sides, Crump has been working his from the begining, the Ayn Rand train (GZ) will prevail and be built

        the media does slant the news to their agenda, they have played fast and reckless (NBC audio splicing) and would like to continue that (hey they need rating to sell advertising…..how does Rush stay in business?) but when it comes from the official State/Fed/Prosecution side, spin is limited, before there was no “accepted authority” (SPD, DA could not be trusted for truth) so it was make up whatever you want, there are no bounds to foolishness, all that nonsense is now stopped in its tracks

        though lawsuits on the media is a slight possibility, I see it as before they were able to go with what they got (Ryan Julison, Matt Gutman) but now they have to go with what they got
        (Corey, BDLR)

        Like

        • boricuafudd says:

          I agree that the article was as by the book as I seen in regards to this case, my point I will remain to be skeptical for now until the boat keeps righting itself. For now it is listing to its port side.

          Like

        • flawesttexas says:

          The lawsuits on the media are a huge probablity…as they kept reporting falsehoods as “facts”

          It would behoove the Tribune Co. (which owns the Sentinel) to get their Risk Mgmt department up to speed and start having frank discussions with their staff. The Trib Co just got out of bankruptcy and cannot afford lawsuits

          NBC/Comcast…uh, there is no hope for them. As a Risk Mgmt lawyer I worked with once said: “This is now the point where we put our heads between our knees and kiss our wallets goodbye”

          Like

      • Kit says:

        It’s the same evolution as the Duke lacrosse case.

        Like

        • myopiafree says:

          Yes – but how long did it take the “State” to realize that they had NO CASE AT ALL – NO EVIDENCE AT ALL? That they had a rogue prosecutor who was attempting to make a “name” for himself. One year? Two years? Tree years? How much of the expense of the “defense” of the LaCross players was paid for by the “State” – for this rogue prosecution?

          Like

  6. James Crawford says:

    It helps GZ tremendously. GZ stated that TM spoke and moved after being shot. The physical evidence is not consistent with an instant death. Hunters such as myself always understood that TM would remain somewhat ambulatory after being shot, but idiots thought otherwise.

    Like

  7. yankeeintx says:

    I think (and I am not a medical expert) that as soon as he uttered his last words, he fell to the ground and was lost consciousness. I don’t believe all those who are saying he suffered horribly.

    Like

    • boricuafudd says:

      The truth is not important in that regard it is the perception that is important and the sympathy element. Is the visual that is important “poor kid, shot in the dark, in pain knowing he’s to die”, the kind of thing that causes juries to negate facts and vote accordingly.

      Like

  8. maggiemoowho says:

    Like

  9. Kyozokuninja says:

    On Twitter, the Traydemarkites are dissing Stutzman for causing TraydeMama & TraydeBabyDaddy so much pain. Whereas once they extolled her, now they condemn her.

    Like

  10. 22tula says:

    EMS administered the correct treatment by beginning CPR; since it would be impossible to assess the extent of heart damage, on the scene,(no choice). Having said that, IMO – the large amt. of blood found in the chest cavity was probably due to the chest compressions,(pushing the blood out of the damaged heart) & resuscitation,(ambu bag/mask- expanding the chest – blood fills the space – left lung collapses). It may seem like minutes, but again IMO, 20 seconds seems closer to the time. The trauma to Travyon’s heart may have cause a instant cardiac standstill, (thump – heart stops). Travyon was able to say a few words because he was reacting to the shock on his body. In a way, shock is the body’s way of protecting itself from pain. So, I don’t think that Trayvon had time to feel any pain because the “shock,” kick in. The lose of blood would have lowered his B/P, causing him to start losing consciousness. Low B/P & Temp may be the cause of his cyanotic nail beds.

    Like

  11. James Crawford says:

    I left a comment over at the Leathermann blog with a link to this thread along with some comments that I hope will ruin his day.

    http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/zimmerman-open-thread-what-was-the-trajectory-of-the-shell-casing/#comment-10824

    Like

    • boricuafudd says:

      I stop going to that site since all they do is speculate using little tidbits of information to justify their theory while ignoring everything else. For instance Leatherman claims that the ejected bullet was what caused GZ’s cut on his nose, if not it was the kick of gun when he shoot TM, bottom line his nose was not broken by TM. Of course. they forget that the EMT said GZ’s nose was possibly broken. They said that the w13 took 2 pictures, the one of GZ and one of TM that was released, yet the police report says he took 4 pictures. They forget about the picture of GZ in the cruiser that shows GZ’s swollen bleeding nose. Or the pictures in the police station where you can see that even after cleaning up there is blood specks around GZ’s mustache.

      Okay I need to stop because I am ranting now. Sorry

      Like

      • arkansasmimi says:

        A friend of mine did some research on Leatherman, if I remb correctly, he lost his law license. He is a NUT!

        Like

      • Knuckledraggingwino says:

        I recall leaving another comment, possibly on Leathermann’s blog, regarding his theorey that the recoil from GZ’s own gun broke his nose. My taking the time to type in the calculations for momentum exchange, resulting velocity and KE of the gun presuming that GZ is the ultimate limp wrist, and impact forces were unappreciated. IIRC, his comment was that it was “physics that they didn’t care to understand.”. Ignorance and stupidity is forgivable. Willful ignorance and stupidity is not.

        Like

        • boricuafudd says:

          That’s the thing they want to have both ways, most of the time the claim is that GZ did not have a broken nose or that the injury is relatively minor but if he did have a broken nose he did it himself either by accident or on purpose. They disregard anything that might negate their own arguments.

          Like

      • Coast says:

        I’ve been in a Y-tube argument with someone concerning the spent casing and its location…apparently this is where he’s been spending time.

        Like

        • James Crawford says:

          The location of the shell casing is irrelevant because GZ’s gun failed to cycle properly which resulted in a stove pipe jam. GZ had to clear that jam by manually cycling the slide to reholster his gun. At best, the location of thevcasing tells us where GZ was standing when he cleared the jam.

          Like

          • Coast says:

            Are there any statements by eyewitness that observed him clearing his weapon, including LEO after the shooting? If so, then I don’t see why anyone would be making a big deal over where the spent cartridge landed. If however it’s only based on GZ statement, then I can see a possible argument. Strange…Kal Tecs are prone to jamming.

            Like

            • James Crawford says:

              The officer who cuffed GZ stated that his gun was holstered. He also found no cartridge, fired or unfired, in the chamber. This is unlikely unless GZ either had a failure to feed or intentionally cleared his weapon.

              In this situation, a failure to feed isn’t a problem with the gun. The shooting was at extremely close quarters with TM’s arm in contact with the gun. (the idiot ME failed to take samples to test for GSR on TM’s wound or hands). Just a little pressure on the slide will keep it from cycling properly.

              People look down their noses at Kel Tecs, but they are getting more respect. I have one of the folding SUB 9mm. Not super accurate, but feeds reliably. I want their .308 bull pup rifle and 12 ga bull pup shotgun with twin feed tubes really bad.

              Like

              • myopiafree says:

                Question – The Kal Tec is a “Double-Action” pistol. Does it have a safety? I think you are correct, the slide came back and ejected the case – but did not pick-up another cartridge. Since GZ was knocked almost “silly” from his beating, he simply put his pistol back in its holster. The case could have been caught in the clothing (after ejection) and fell out as GZ got up from his beating. I did not think he hit TM, but did not want the beating to continue.

                Like

                • James Crawford says:

                  The Kel-Tec is actually a Double Action Only pistol. The hammer never stays cocked so each trigger pull has to cock the hammer. This results in a relatively heavy trigger pull. The Kel-Tec has no manual safety just like the Glock favored by so many police.

                  Like

          • AghastInFL says:

            James, I do not believe you are correct; the weapon was found with a chambered round and six in the mag, that is all eight possible rounds, the Kel-Tec PF9 is a 7+1 configuration.
            Quote:
            “recovered at the scene were:
            Kel-Tec PF9
            6 live rounds in the magazine
            1 loose live round when cleared that had been in the chamber
            1 spent casing

            Kel-Tec PF-9 round count
            All rounds are accounted for if the firearm was fully loaded at the time of the shooting.”
            p.20 of 183

            Like

            • James Crawford says:

              I stand corrected. I had read ne statement by the officer that took GZ into custody but was unable to recall this statement. I based my speculation on the list of evidence submitted to FDLE. Sorry for my screw up.

              You realize that this ammo count conclusively refutes the claim by some that they heard GZ cocking his gun as he exited his vehicle?

              Like

              • boricuafudd says:

                I read that, they were convinced that they could hear GZ cocking his gun right before he left his truck, the same guys are convinced that they can also hear a second person in the truck with GZ.

                Like

              • AghastInFL says:

                Yes an excellent point to remember!
                I also believe this another credible point against the depraved indifference of the Murder II charge; GZ could have emptied the mag if this were some sort of thrill kill. In the same place, same situation, I probably would have fired more than once, George did not and that goes toward his presence of mind IMO. One shot to stop the attack.

                Like

    • diwataman says:

      I noticed someone linked my blog on the phone over at his blog and his reply was;

      “Yep. Silly non issue.”

      http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/important-announcement-regarding-character-assassination/#comment-10305

      I guess he forgot about his own thoughts on the phone;

      “I have suspected all along that Trayvon Martin’s cell phone would turn out to be the smoking gun in the Zimmerman case…”

      http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/may-i-have-the-smoking-gun-please/

      Like

      • maggiemoowho says:

        LOL, I have yet to figure out how he comes to his conclusions. I’m not sure his elevator goes to the top floor. You do have a great blog though Diwataman.

        Like

      • Wow, I have never been to that site but after reading just 20-30 comments I decided that there are many on there whose eleavtors dont quite make it to the top floor. One chick, Sandra or something talks about the shell casing cutting GZ’s nose………WTF? They are nuts, obviously have never fired a gun in thier lives but somehow they are experts, UGH

        Like

        • maggiemoowho says:

          It might burn a tiny bit, but it will not cut. They are really grasping at straws over there and they keep debunking their own theories which is quite comical.

          Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        I posted a link to this site once before, if I recall. The attorney says some truly outrageous things, and sets the scene for others to get on board and tell even more lies. These people clearly believe George is guilty.

        That would be OK if it was just this site, but geezzhh, there are so many others just like it. I guess they are entitled to their opinions but what ticks me off is that no one believes that a person is innocent until proven guilty. The presumption of innocence just does not exist at these sites.

        I only hope this case never goes to a jury because I would be very nervous about that.

        Think about this: How many sites have you visited where the posters are still on the fence?
        That disturbs me.

        Like

    • James Crawford says:

      Apparently; Leathermann decided to delete my post.

      Ohh Boo Hoo

      Like

  12. Shilo says:

    And still no Tox report???

    Like

  13. James F says:

    So his fingers turned blue…kind of makes it hard tell if they were bruised or not doesn’t it?

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      All they have to do is read Tray’s Big Bruh tweets, he confirmed that TM was attacking GZ. “Cracka got madd kause he got dem bangaz put 2 em by a young nigga”. Then he tweets ” Kum to think about it I Was just SLAP BOXING wit him saturday night “. Guess that sums it up, TM attacked GZ. Also, the body will not bruise after death so unless his hands were bruised before, they would not show up later like most bruises do. Camp TM’s argument about the lack of bruising on TM’s hands is ridiculous and holds no value.

      Like

  14. Coast says:

    So TM was shot in the heart? Are we absolutely sure that’s true? Reverend Jesse Jackson said the GZ shot TM in the back of the head! I also heard that TM was hunted down like a rabid dog. This story has to be completely wrong…..

    Like

    • James Crawford says:

      See the autopsy.

      The round perforated his heart along with the lower lobe of TM’s left lung.

      With a shot to the heart TM would have remained ambulatory for less than a minute, but movements such as his hands could have continued longer. Some people don’t understand that each cell in the body has a Mitocondria which stores energy to allow anaerobic movement.

      Like

  15. No phone records, no tox report. George Zimmerman in innocent!

    There is no doubt that Trayvon Martin died while engaging in a felony against George Zimmerman!

    Like

  16. thefirstab says:

    This topic is sad, I for one don’t want to know all the gory details about the last seconds in someone’s life. IMO this only serves to AGAIN play to emotions on one side – so since it’s apparently “diversity” day, we should revisit the gory details of what happens when your head is bashed against concrete.

    Totally off topic…. also IMO – Rene, if you choose to appear on-camera, please get a stylist to help you out. There’s nothing wrong with showing some “life experience”, but Good Grief! a little help with wardrobe/makeup is definitely called for. Or is this supposed to be the “look” of a serious journalist??

    I’m on a roll today…. ooops, “diversity” day. make that a bagel..

    Like

  17. minpin06 says:

    Why would the Orlando Sentinel hire two so called “experts” to determine how long TM lived, was conscious, or what kind of pain he may have felt? One Dr. says he could have remained alive and conscious for minutes, another says he could have remained conscious for a matter of seconds. They are educated guesses at best. They completely ignore the police reports of those officers that arrived on the scene within seconds of the shooting. Most likely from the 911 tape where you can hear the gunshot, they mention the exact time the bullet entered TM’s chest. The article claims that it is unclear how soon CPR was started, even though I believe the chain of events was documented in the various police reports. Wasn’t Cutcher on the phone with 911, and remarks that a police officer has arrived? I believe the first officers arrived with seconds of each other. Any decent medical examiner takes their clues from everywhere, including the police officer who quickly checked for a pulse and breathing, and says that he found no pulse or breaths, and TM was unconscious. The Dr’s make their determination solely from the blue fingernails, and seem to ignore everything else.

    According to George’s testimony, he said that TM sat up, mumbled some words, and then George scooted out from under him, thinking that he missed when he shot his gun. If George scooted out from under him, of course he would be face down on the grass. George didn’t flip TM off of him. Another thing in George’s favor is that even though he didn’t think he had gotten TM, he didn’t shoot him again. He tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He wasn’t out to commit murder. The report does go a long way in proving that George was not lying, though it is obvious that was not the intention in writing this article.

    Especially coming from the sheman Rene Stutzman, there is only one purpose for writing this article, to garner sympathy for Travy. There is no possible way any doctor, I don’t care who they are, could determine if TM experienced any pain or how long he could have or would have remained conscious. Anyone trained in the medical profession knows damn well that no one can “feel” someone else’s pain, or even if they are experiencing pain or not. The doctors, and Stutzman are all but calling the police officer, who found TM unconscious, no pulse, and no breaths a liar, especially with the unconscious part.

    One of the things that has been a pattern throughout this whole time, since the incident, is that whenever there is something seemingly in George’s favor, something must be printed by these idiots to pull all the sympathy back to the poor little innocent child who was murdered simply for walking while being black. The judge had ordered the full autopsy report, complete with the full tox report, to be released, and to date that order has never been honored by the prosecutors. I’m wondering if we are about to see the full tox report. The autopsy report, showing the cause of death was released months ago. Why is the sheman only writing about the autopsy now?

    I’m also wondering if this isn’t a hit piece aimed at the SPD officers who were the first to arrive, and to administer CPR. Were they not fast enough, not trained in CPR well enough, didn’t have the right life saving equipment and on and on. There has never been any doubt that the Crumpy’s were going to sue everything that moved, including the SPD that they claimed was trying to cover things up with the investigation. Go back and read NatJac’s tweets from not so long ago. She talked about bringing wrongful death lawsuits.

    Like

    • Knuckledragingwino says:

      I tried to encourage Stutzmen by sending her the following Email.

      I just wanted to congratulate you on a well written, factual article.  Any big game hunter who has had to track lung shot animals could explain this to you.  My boys and I shot three elk only a few hundred yards from our front door this year.  All three were shot through the lungs.  One was shot through the heart.  All three remained ambulatory and conscious.  This is of course more forensic evidence that confirms GZ’s account of the incident.

      BTW, did you notice that the autopsy mentioned the presence of SOOT around the entrance wound?  Soot is deposited only in close range or contact range shootings.  The range at which soot (burned propellent) and stripling or tattooing (unburned propellent) can be deposited is proportional to barrel length, so GZ’s little short barreled gun would have had to be extremely close to deposit soot as well as stripling. The excellent analysis of TM’s clothing by the FDLE crime lab conclusively proves that TM was shot at contact range.  In spite of this forensic evidence, the ME lied by stating that TM was shot at Intermediate range to conform to Serino’s theory.  The ME also failed to collect gun shot residue samples from around the wound and tissue samples from the wound that could further confirm the range of the shooting.

      Perhaps you could do an article on the ME’s innaccurate and biased findings to support the police theory.

      Like

    • howie says:

      I think anything they do is approved by Crump first.

      Like

      • minpin06 says:

        I actually think it may have been Crump who asked these Dr’s for their statements, especially the one who talked about TM possibly suffering pain.

        I think it is interesting that since it was announced that O’Mara did in fact file the Writ with the Appellate court on Tues. the 14th, the Martin lawyers in particular, have been very silent on twitter, even the big mouth Natalie Jackson. Daralene Jones has moved onto other cases, and doesn’t even talk about GZ any longer. Even Jeff Weiner has been mostly silent about GZ, after someone asked him on twitter how the whole narrative started in this case. He said the only ones talking about the case back then were the Martins. LOL The only one still carrying the water bucket for Crumpy has been the sheman Stutzman.

        Like

        • kathyca says:

          ITA. I posted my reasons in the other thread about it. It’s kind of cracking me up that the loonies are up in arms over it not even realizing what’s going on and that they’re basically saying that the family’s civil claim is near worthless. It’s more important that they stick to the “George is lying” mantra than to think about things for five seconds. Watch. If George doesn’t get immunity they’ll all of a sudden “get it” and these same lunatics will be screaming about how long he lived on, suffering terribly all the while.

          Like

          • landaumurphyfan says:

            “these same lunatics will be screaming about how long he lived on, suffering terribly all the while”

            Since AFAIK no one is claiming that after the gunshot, TM was screaming in pain or even moaning in pain, it’s going to be pretty hard to prove that he was actually **feeling** pain, especially as even the “experts” can’t agree. But in any case, even if he **did** feel pain for a minute or so – heck, let’s even make a case, as some are doing on other threads, that he also felt fear b/c he knew he was going to die (which IMO is innately implausible b/c his last words are far more expressive of a stunned disbelief that things hadn’t gone as he’d envisaged) – but even in that “worst-case scenario”, all he was experiencing was what he had caused the innocent GZ to experience, for (at worst) roughly the same amount of time. Instant karma, as you might say.

            Like

    • James Crawford says:

      Once the discrepancies with the phone reveals the testimony of Double Dee Dee as fraudulent, everyone is going to be running away from the case like fleas fleeing a sinking rat. Crumpy will have some very serious explaining to do. It will not matter if he isn’t disbarred, GZ and SZ will own everything he has now and any future earnings.

      Like

    • jimrtex says:

      “Why would the Orlando Sentinel hire two so called “experts” to determine how long TM lived, was conscious, or what kind of pain he may have felt? ”

      There are Pulitzer prizes awarded for intense over the top continuing coverage of a single story.

      Like

  18. We know DeeDee is lying because if Trayvon was scared he’d have been home. Nobody is able to prove that he, with a head start, could have been caught on his way home if he walked quickly or ran away, without stop. Nobody wants to bring that up just as they don’t want to bring up Trayvon’s *missing snack* (Chad said Trayvon wanted a snack and Chad said he asked Tray to get him skittles. So if Trayvon wants a snack…where is it?). In the 4th dimension, that’s where. It’s all a lie. It always was.

    Crump was in a rush to get a big pay day. I once read that he had big debts. If so (*if*) then it explains the rush to jump on this case without the facts. That is where I’d start looking…

    Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Hopey – the big lie about TM – is that we don’t know what he was actually like – as shown by his “tweets”, as well as his email name, “No Limit NIgga” – not to mention his other interests in C-Murder. At age 16 he defined himself to be violent in thought, and some-times in action – i.e., “slap fighting” as well as conducting “street fights”. A man like that is NEVER IN A STATE OF “FEAR”. These are “words” that Crump put into DeDe mouth. TM was “baiting” GZ – and in my opinion was waiting in the gloom to “… punch this Cracker out…” to prove that he could “do it”. So he did it – thought there would be no response from GZ.

      Like

  19. AghastInFL says:

    Every time I see the autopsy report and diagram I have the same question: Can anyone explain the notation ID and line across the ankle’s of TM?
    *speculation* this represents the line measured for the height thus the 71″… something must explain how they measured him as under 6′ on the table when the family and my own eyes tell me he was substantially taller.

    Like

    • Sharon says:

      In some of the previous articles, commenters familiar with these things have explained that it is a common thing for the body to measurably retract after death, and by the time the MEs are taking documenting statistics, it’s not uncommon at all that inches are lost. Those who are familiar with this area of work do not seem to consider those measurements an issue of any concern.

      Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      It is common for an ID tag/band to be clipped or tied around an ankle of the deceased. Used to work with EMS and it is common. Toe tags are not really used anymore. Plastic wrist/ankle bands are used now for identification.

      Like

  20. James Crawford says:

    When my brother was murderred by an armed robber who ran him down with a Dodge van, he suffered what is referred to as a “flail chest injury”. Translation, his rib cage was literally torn open. The paramedics testified that they were literally able to watch his heart as it stopped breathing. In spite of this horrific injury, witnesses reported that he remained concious and somewhat ambulatory for about a minute and tried to speak. TM’s injuries were minor in comparison.

    Like

    • Sharon says:

      What shall we say–when a friend on the trail shares the unbearable because the telling of what he has endured might answer the question of another?

      I don’t know, James Crawford. I sure don’t know. But having read this comment, I will not silently walk by without looking you in the eye and acknowledging what you have shared.

      Like

      • kathyca says:

        Yes. An instance of a good man doing nothing wrong who is preyed upon by those lesser than himself. It deserves continuing recognition, acknowledgment and commitment that those incidences are the ones that we, as a society, will not tolerate.

        Like

      • landaumurphyfan says:

        I have no words for that kind of pain, James, so I can only say…what Sharon said.

        Like

        • boricuafudd says:

          You have shared something that is extremely personal and deeply disturbing, I cannot express anything that would make sense or ease any pain you may still feel, it is sad to lose someone but under your circumstances doubly so. I am honored that you felt that you could share with us and I admired your commitment to do justice to an innocent man.

          Like

  21. jordan2222 says:

    test

    Like

  22. cajunkelly says:

    I would imagine that the only “instant death” would be severing of the brain stem.

    I’ve had two instances of holding a person as they moved to whatever waits for us beyond this mortal world, and yes, I *know for a fact* that death is not the end. I’ll share that with y’all some day.

    1) My Mom as she passed peacefully to heaven

    2) First responder to an absolutely horrific traffic accident

    I’ve always felt that Mom could still hear us and knew we were still there with her for a period of time after she took her last breath and her tired heart stopped beating, because surely it takes a while for the body to use up the oxygen needed to keep the brain functioning.

    I’m pretty sure the traffic victim ceased life as we know it immediately. As I said….horrific, and severely traumatic…for the victim and for me…sent me into counseling for a while.

    I think until the brain dies from lack of oxygen, or is separated from the body, thereby preventing the nerve centers from communicating with the organs (including heart), there remains a level of awareness.

    I do not believe Traydmark “suffered” as I’m sure any possible lawsuits would like to claim. Sounds like he was pretty calm with what he reportedly said. Common sense would dictate that if he was in pain he would have screamed.

    All of the above is my opinion only. YMMV

    Like

  23. mzaz2012mzaz says:

    Trayvon Martin’s drug use, explaining how the Skittles and Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail drink he carried that night are ingredients that, when mixed with dextromethorphan (DXM) cough syrup, create “Lean”, a concocted high which can cause psychosis and aggression over the longer term. According to the autopsy report, Martin’s liver showed damage consistent with DXM abuse.”

    Like

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