02-21 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

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437 Responses to 02-21 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. maggiemoowho says:

    I came across two things tonight while reading these older articles and interviews caught my attention( if they were brought up earlier I apologise) The first thing is a from an interview with a friend of TM’s from HS and she was a Junior with TM. She claims TM was “Expelled” at the time of his death. So was trayvon suspended or was he expelled.

    “Earlier in the day at Krop High, the school formally recognized the death of Trayvon with an announcement over the loudspeakers.
    “They just said that we lost a family member,” said Ashley Kristive, a junior at Krop and friend of Trayvon from middle school.
    The principal, Dawn Baglos, asked everyone to take a moment of silence to honor Trayvon.
    The school announcement came more than three weeks after Trayvon was killed in Sanford and after his death has became a national cause.

    Kristive said the gesture was a “good thing” but maybe too late. Trayvon was expelled from the school at the time of his death.

    The school had asked Krop teachers not to speak to media, apparently out of respect for his family.
    “I heard we were not supposed to talk about it,” said Montovani Girard-Jean, who was in English class with Trayvon. “People deserve to know what happened to him. It was messed up.”
    But students on campus and on social media this week talked about holding a memorial in his honor.”

    (I’ll post my second thing below)

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Sorry I deleted my intro sentence to the paragraph from the article. I screwed that one up, it’s late. :oops:

      • ottawa925 says:

        I forgive you my child. yes it is late … I’m still not sleepy AND I cleaned the house today … I should be sawing logs … it ain’t happnin

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Thank you, I posted these two things and finally fell asleep. I really hate nights like that because I’m always worried I’ll post something that I wrote while half asleep. :)

          • ottawa925 says:

            yes, I have the next day come back to look at some posts I have made the LATE night before and I’m sure ppl were thinking I was either senile or drunk.

    • eastern2western says:

      he was expelled? I guess the posession of marijuana was really marijuana.

    • diwataman says:

      Expelled? Wow. How the hell did I miss this one? lol

      • Lou says:

        he was expelled. it said on his Facebook page he was graduating from Carol City Sr. with the class of 2013. I still don’t believe he ever went to CCSH. Sybrina better prove this, or she will be known as the biggest liar among all liars.

        • diwataman says:

          She’s a liar and a schemer without that but like I said before, from his tweets he said he was going back:

          1) PEACE OUT KROP :P
          2) HELLO CC…. AGAIN….. KINDA MISS IT
          4) @_LoveThyLondon IM TRANSFERIN
          5) @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA I said why dummy
          6) @_LoveThyLondon I MOVED WIT MY OL BOI
          7) @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA :/ … Ohh,, Good luck,, ima miss yu old man

      • boricuafudd says:

        Might explain the rush to seal school records. Hmm.

      • libby says:

        You missed this one easily becuase the cops refused to investigate the thug who atacked GZ so viciously (the racist black cops were threatening fellow police officers and thus they only investigated tugboat whose friends and family have yet to make any threats of violence)

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Is there really a meaningful difference between an expulsion, and 50+ days of truancy and three suspensions?

      Now, if someone can produce the police records, that would be instructive.

      • boutis says:

        Expulsion would mean that the school was not going to bother with him any longer. Suspension means they are still trying or at least going through the motions. If he was expelled the school had washed their hands of him. It is very drastic.

        • jello333 says:

          Yeah, I know what Chip is saying…. just considering the total number of days involved, there’s not much difference. But I’m sure he knows there technically really is a big difference. I figured that out the first time any of my friends got suspended, maybe in 5th or 6th grade. I came home and told my Mom that this kid had just got “expelled”. She was like, “What?! What did he do?” I told her he kicked over his desk, and yelled at the teacher. My Mom could NOT believe that had gotten him expelled, and was about to call the school and stuff. But she asked me, “So where is he gonna go now, if they kicked him out of school?” I said, “Huh? They’re not kicking him out. He just has to stay home for three days.” She was like, “Oh… suspended. Not expelled, Ok, he probably deserved that.” ;)

      • diwataman says:

        It’s meaningful for other reasons. Also, I have never seen anything showing me how many days he was truant and all of the suspensions we know about are in question.

        I assume by police records you mean the Miami-Dade Schools Police Department as the various town police agencies more than likely won’t have anything aside from that one “contact” that Serino mentioned in his report.

        We will more than like also never see the MD-SPD reports as they are reports that are dealing with a juvenile, though when this goes to trial O’Mara, if he ever gets them, fully and in tact, may present some of them but who knows what we’ll see of them at that point.

        • boutis says:

          I wonder if any entity that the Martins sue for liability damages will go the route of demanding to see his records to determine if he shared responsibility or caused his own death based upon prior behavior. A civil jury many not be sympathetic if his records are locked up and they refuse to prove his immaculate behavior. A large insurer for a gun company doesn’t really care about anything the Scheme Team cannot or will not prove.

          • jello333 says:

            For one thing, Crump will be too busy trying to keep HIMSELF from bankruptcy (and maybe jail) to sue anyone. But even if he did, it wouldn’t be full-fledged, courtroom-based lawsuits. He could never win. What he MIGHT try to do is a little extortion. “I don’t really want to file suit against you and bring to light your racist tendencies. So what say we sit down and talk about what it’ll take to make this all go away?”

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Something must have happened in Miami, his cousin wrote this on FB:

          J*****a T***a Martin
          March 26, 2012 near Miramar, FL via mobile
          They so busy try a make tray look like a bad person they are forgetting that he still was a innocent kid doing nothin when he was shot…forget what happened in Miami and remember what happened in Sanford and arrest Zimmerman

      • myopiafree says:

        Shocked I am! That this would-be honor student and Ph.D. candidate was expelled? It must be a white racist plot to keep young black children from going through school and working on the Space Station. (Eye Roll).

        • boricuafudd says:

          Funny you should mention that, remember that the DOJ in conjunction with Obama and the Congressional Black Caucus signed the Executive Order declaring the disciplining of AA students as excessive and discriminatory. Establishing separate special rules for how and when AA only students would be disciplined.

    • tara says:

      I was thinking that because the person who used the word “expelled” was a student, it could ver well be inaccurate. If the principal had used the word I would definitely be perking up. But.then again… the student might have been right.

      • boricuafudd says:

        While you are right, the teachers and staff had already been warned about discussing anything about TM. Giving out that type of information would have gotten any of them in serious trouble. Not to mention that if I not incorrect at the time of the article TM records were sealed or in the process of.

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Why were they told not to talk about it. The school superintendent said it was because the family requested privacy, but why, all these kids already knew, they showed up at the funeral. That is why I am curious if Pam Bondi knew of the shooting on 3/1/12 because she had a meeting with Miami Dade superintendent Alberto Carval that day to talk about the matters that impact Florida’s Children. He also wrote a letter to the DOJ dated 3/20/12(popular day in the world of TM) to express his support for a Civil Rights investigation, yada, yada yada. It disgusts me, this guy is in charge of the 4th largest school system in the US and he doesn’t believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Anyway here are the two links:
          Him with Pam Bondi on 3/1/12

          His letter to the DOJ:

      • boutis says:

        And the paper work takes some time. It may not have been final by the time he died. All that is acknowledged is he was kicked out of school and sent out of town.

    • Cupcake says:

      I think the statement about the teachers being asked not to talk to the media speaks volumes. That is not typical.

      • eastern2western says:

        actually I think it is typical because a student’s school activities are personal information. thus making it illegal for teaches to speak to the media about trayvon’s school activities.

        • Cupcake says:

          eastern: Here locally, when something like this happens to students, teachers or coaches are frequently on the news saying what a good kid they were or what a good baseball player they were. Obviously they wouldn’t go on TV talking about their academic or attendance records as that is private.

        • friendofinnocence says:

          What would be the purpose of keeping someone’s school records secret after he is dead?

    • Nettles18 says:

      When you read how the school reacted to his death, he very well may not have been a student at their school when he died.

      On March 21st, State Impact, starting asking questions. Those questions led to the students being told that day. Very odd.

      “This morning, the chief communications director for the Miami-Dade County school district, John Schuster said there is a reason the school did not announce Trayvon’s death on campus.

      “Shortly after Trayvon’s death, his parents asked the school’s principal for privacy in the matter,” Schuster said.

      But the school did make an announcement anyway after StateImpact Florida started asking around.”


      • Nettles18 says:

        Why would the parents request the school not tell the students of Trayvon’s passing while at the same time they are launching a media campaign?

        • recoverydotgod says:

          The march-april issue of the school newspaper “thelightingstrike” has a bit of information [quotes from the principal].

          • Nettles18 says:

            Here’s one student’s opinion on the matter.

            • maggiemoowho says:

              I just think the Scheme Team had a plan early on and they needed time to get everything in place. I do think part of it was to fire up the students, get them to walk out and do it with good timing. I find it very coincidental that the school felt that the anger and emotions of students were getting to be to much and so they made the decision to go against(cough) the parents wishes and make an announcement to aknowledge TM’s death on March 20th. The same day we hear about DeDe and just in time to get students to organize a walk out as Angela Corey takes the case. A time when the case had the most momentum.

          • diwataman says:

            Thanks for bringing that up about the paper. I’ve never seen it before.


            • Nettles18 says:

              According to the write-up the school complied with the subpoena and they thought the information in the school records had gone public by April 4th. So who subpoenaed the school in March/April?

              • diwataman says:

                I would think Angela Corey. Another question is; why didn’t O’Mara get them?

                • Nettles18 says:

                  That’s what I’m wondering. If it was Angela Corey why did the defense have to subpoena them?

                  Could it have been the Miami Herald. Ms. Robles wrote the story about suspensions and referred to school police reports in her story.

                  • debfrmhell says:

                    I am thinking that the information came by way of FDLE and their biographical write-ups. That “Activity Start Date” is listed as 3/19/12. It was approved by David Lee and CI analyst Amanda Stephens was assigned to handle it.

                    MOM hasn’t had the opportunity to see those yet, hence the Motion for Specific Discovery From FDLE.

            • recoverydotgod says:

              You’re welcome.

              One other detail that I found interesting as far as connections. Dawn Baglos serves on this advisory board and so does Miami Herald editor.


        • Angel says:

          “Why would the parents request the school not tell the students of Trayvon’s passing while at the same time they are launching a media campaign?”

          To keep it on the down low until the media blitz took effect, maybe so the kids would know what to say or not say regarding TM? Maybe?

        • jello333 says:

          My guess is two reasons: 1) Trayvon really didn’t have as many friends as they claimed, and so they were afraid they’d get a “Who?” reaction from most of the school; and 2) of the kids who DID know Trayvon well, they were afraid they would say, “Oh wow, I guess Tray picked the wrong dude to mess with this time.”

          • Nettles18 says:

            It’s clear that if Trayvon did have any friends at the school, they (the school’s administrators) chose to take no action in providing grief counsellors for them in the days following his passing. Every odd. They left the kids (if there were any) to deal with it on their own.

      • jello333 says:

        Right. That’s not the way it’s done, or at least didn’t used to be. Back when I was in high school, I recall 3 different kids being killed during the school years. And every one was announced on the PA system the day after it happened. One time that’s even how I initially heard the news.

  2. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest.

    They gave George a day off for the main part.
    (Update.. most of two days off)

    They had urgent hate and nastiness to be getting on with in regards Shellie’s brief appearance in court. Almost every post was about Shellie. Little of it about her case, mostly just hate and nastiness… a speciality of JQ of course.

    They would not normally lower themselves to discuss a perjury case… hardly crime of the century stuff…but it was too good a chance to spew hate for them to pass up. Their hate for George is so overwhelming that it does spill over to his family, friends, lawyers, supporters….. everybody associated in any way with George. Blind hate from nasty, mean spirited, warped, old gossipy trollops.

    Even for this matter, the perjury case against Shellie, they have no real clue about things like facts. They just HATE. They want her imprisoned… want her to suffer… are joyous at the prospect she will no longer be able to pursue her nursing career. Some are even covering the (remote as they see it) possibility of the case against George being dismissed (or lost).

    They STILL want Shellie found guilty and punished… compensation for these hate-bitches I guess?

    With no picture of Shellie available early on, they were disappointed, but just made-up what they thought she might look like. Later, with some screen shots available, they really went to town. Commenting on her weigh, demeanour, body language, hair. Anything really, just so long as it was negative. They really are despicable excuses for human beings.

    And I know for a FACT that many of the “ladies” at JQ happen to be fairly porky themselves (and ugly). VERY ugly on the inside, as demonstrated by what they spew across cyber-space. So perhaps they should keep a mirror beside their keyboards and just check their own appearance before posting criticism of another woman’s appearance.

    Obviously the plight of Shellie is linked to George, but her case is not really relevant to the case against George. Nothing the Traybots posted about Shellie is worth quoting.. so I won’t bother quoting specific posts today.

    Today….. Just Hate Quest

    Random Topics

    ………………………………………… photo cockatoo_zpsd358cb24.gif………………………………………….
    If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.

    • rumpole2 says:

      For The Ladies at JQ – Fat Bottomed Girls

    • maggiemoowho says:

      I don’t understand those people. They must live miserable lives to have that much hate for others. It isn’t hard to see why many of them have criminal pasts.

      • jello333 says:

        I’ve written these types off completely. You know the talk about Chad possibly being involved? Well, I’ve reached the point where I honestly believe that if a video surfaced, proving that Trayvon had Chad come and tape him beating down George, these JQ types would STILL hate George. “Yes, this will no doubt get Zimmerman off the hook, but it’s almost worth it. Did you SEE how Trayvon was smashing him?! That was SOOO great! I just wish he had had the opportunity to finish it!”

        Yeah… I really believe some of those people are just that evil.

        • justfactsplz says:

          They are truly evil. To my knowledge none of George’s supporters have wished physical harm on the opposition. You know every time someone mentions the possibility of a video tape of the beatdown it makes me think. George saw a light that made him think Trayvon was indeed video taping the beatdown. To my knowledge he did not report that. However he was excited that there might be a video tape when Serino mentioned it. George was quick to believe it to be true. He was glad there might be a tape of the beating.

          • jello333 says:

            Yeah I remember that. When Serino suggested it, I think George said something like, “I’ve been praying to God, hoping there WAS a video or something.” I really felt for George when he said that.

            • justfactsplz says:

              That statement gives you a little insight into George’s character and personality. This man is not evil like they try to make him out to be. He cared about people and his community so much. If this happened to someone else in Sanford instead of George, there is absoulutely no doubt in my mind that George would be out there with petitionsl fliers, speeches, and a number of other things in support of the accused. Even with what he is going through, George worries and cares about others and their safety. The black mother of the children he was mentoring wanted to come forward on his behalf and Geroge would have no part of it. He did not want her to endanger herself. Tugboat!

              • jello333 says:

                From just listening to him, reading his words, watching his mannerisms, hearing from his friends, yeah…. he seems like a really good guy. I mean not just NOT a “bad guy”…. I mean he seems far MORE caring and compassionate than the average person. And every word you’ve said about him only reinforces what I already feel. George is about the age of my two sons, and I’d be proud to have another son just like him.

                Oh hey, if any JQers are reading this… sure, be my guest. Go ahead and quote me on that. You people are WARPED. This is a really good, decent, caring young man you’re trying to destroy. The fact that you think he’s something different says everything we need to know about YOU. Mirror time.

              • canadacan says:

                Justice for tugboat, an honorable man

            • Lou says:

              MOM needs to plant the seed about the videotaping done by Trayvon, and that’s why the prosecution can’t find anything on the phone and the father wouldn’t release the PIN.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Thanks Admin

       photo 562976_484771754919200_301222925_n_zpsc0c7dd18.jpg

       photo smiley19.gif  photo smiley19.gif  photo smiley19.gif …Admin

    • justfactsplz says:

      I don’t read at that site but when Shellie was arrested I read some very ugly evil posts about her on Click Orlando. Shellie is beautiful inside and out. She is caring, intelligent, and kind hearted. In person she is stunning. And yes she is strong. She too should go free.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      The Daily Daft is turning into the Two-Minute Hate.

    • ejarra says:


      If Shellie is found not guilty or it gets thrown out B4 a trial, does Shellie get reimbursed by the state for expenses and lost revenue?


      • jello333 says:

        I don’t think so. Not unless she can show that it was a “malicious prosecution” or something like that. Under normal circumstances, after you’re found not-guilty or the charges are dropped, you can’t do anything about it. They almost NEVER offer to reimburse you for anything, let alone pay some kind of “damages” for what’s been done. You’re VERY lucky to even get a “Sorry about that” from the scumbags.

      • ejarra says:

        From above:

        Bronston v. United States, 409 U.S. 352 (1973), is a seminal[1][2] United States Supreme Court decision strictly construing the federal perjury statute. Chief Justice Warren Burger wrote for a unanimous Court that responses to questions made under oath that relayed truthful information in and of themselves but were intended to mislead or evade the examiner could not be prosecuted. Instead, the criminal-justice system had to rely on more carefully worded follow-up questions.

        IMO, between Shellie constantly asking for BLDR to ask her BIL, Scott for the answer and the confusion surrounding the pay-pal account, this should be thrown out based on Bronston V US.

  3. maggiemoowho says:

    This is the second interesting thing that I read tonight was about a lady named Renita Holmes, founder of WAAIVE, she is the person who got the NBPP involved in this case. What is even more interesting, is that she got “Ronald Fulton” involved. (She recruited Ronald Fulton to sign the petition for TM also.) He is TM’s uncle and has spoken out a lot in the beginning. Seems odd to me that anyone would have to recruit him to get “involved”. I thought he and TM were close.

    From The Miami Times:

    {Meanwhile, grassroots activists, including Renita Holmes and Brian Dennis, say they plan to join the family in Sanford next Monday and hope to take a convoy to show they stand in solidarity with the victim and his loved ones who mourn his death.

    “Trayvon Martin was one of our children and nothing warranted him being shot,” said Dennis, president of Brothers of the Same Mind. “The shooter should be charged with murder because he clearly knew what he was doing and hunted that boy down.”

    Holmes, the founder of WAAIVE and a community activist, says she has enlisted the support of a growing number of Miamians, including Ronald Fulton, the uncle of the deceased youth, Clark Atlanta University Alumni Association, Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc. and the New Black Panther Party. They will be traveling to Sanford to camp out before Monday’s city commission meeting.}


  4. jello333 says:

    Hey… anyone seen Jordan lately?

    • justfactsplz says:

      No. The last I heard from him he was upset with me and some others for voicing our opinion that this is a political case and that the outcome may ver possibly be pre determined. I gorget how many days ago but you could go back and check his posts. I understand how he felt but the Truth Has No Agenda.

      • jello333 says:

        I don’t think it’s so much he’s upset with anyone here for voicing those opinions. I think he’s upset at the very THOUGHT that it could be true. And there’s times I feel that too. And I’m pretty sure you and many others here do too. It really DOESN’T seem possible, and when it’s put into words… well, it actually DOES tend to make a person angry. It might seem the anger is aimed at the person saying those words, but that’s not really it. It’s an anger at a “them” or the “system” or whatever would allow such monstrous injustice. Not sure I’m making any sense…

        • justfactsplz says:

          You make perfect sense. The truth goes against the grain of what we believe the justice system in America is supposed to be. It is shocking and so far fetched that you don’t want to believe. Then the reality of it hits you like a ton of bricks. I have cried over what this persecution and the Scheme Team are getting away with. Even though the outlook is very gloomy I know God is in control and can change the hearts of men and turn this thing around. Omara needs to make a stand and a strong one with this judge.

        • ottawa925 says:

          perfect sense.

        • boricuafudd says:

          I have told Jordan that he is a Romantic, born in the wrong era.

      • selfdefenseadvocate says:

        The truth has no agenda, so here is my truth: I have noticed that a number of people no longer post on here and I miss reading their informative posts. imo, there is way too much gossip about people on other blogs posted on here and way too many opinions by the same people day after day. I come here to keep up to date on the EVIDENCE in this case and do greatly appreciate the few who post and discuss the evidence. The Truth Has No Agenda.

        • tara says:

          I’m not saying that I’m included in the group of people who you miss :) but I was unable to post much for more than a week because of stuff going on here at my home (we’re vying for the record of world’s longest bathroom remodel). It’s back to normal and now I’m trying to catch up. So it makes me wonder, if someone hasn’t been here in a while maybe they are on vacation or consumed by work or personal tasks? I guess we’ll see if they ever come back.

          • ejarra says:

            I for one noticed your absense. Two prolific posters that I haven’t seen in many months and am curious as to why are: GBishop and DedicatedDad. There are proabably more, but these two I personally miss. It was good to see froggylegs make an appearence, albeit a short one.

        • diwataman says:

          Well, given the fact that we’ve seen hardly anything new in months frankly I’m surprised there as many comments as there is regarding this case. You can only talk about the same things so many times so I’m not surprised we go to the “other side” to see what’s up and discuss it. Also for the first few months or so it was exciting trying to figure it all out and put the little pieces together whereas now all we get is whiny motions by O’Mara and Notice’s of Depositions. Even I’ve thought about stopping dealing with this case.

          • jello333 says:

            Hey, been meaning to ask you. I THINK I know what you mean, but I wanna make sure: When you mention “whiny motions” or MOM (and sometimes West) “whining” to the judge, you’re not meaning their motions are without merit, right? What I think you mean is that they don’t go far enough, that it’s time to take off the gloves and get MEAN and ACCUSATORY in any motions or statements — in court or out — when they talk about what Bernie, Crump, the judge herself, what ALL of them have been doing. Spell out the actual VIOLATIONS that have been taking place, spell out the whole “scheme” being perpetrated. Do I have that right?

            If so, yeah, I’ll happily join you in telling Mark and Don to STOP WHINING and DO SOMETHING!

            • boricuafudd says:

              D-Man and you bring up an interesting point, compare the motions written by MOM to the answers from the prosecution. MOM’s are cordial, professional, emotionless, while the responses from the State are firm, assured, accusatory, full of passion, mocking even. To us who are concerned about the law, MOM’s fillings we lawyerly, and we considered BDLR apish and brutish, yet they have been more effective.

              Only West has shown some fire so far, MOM needs to change or GZ will be paying the consequences of his professorial approach.

  5. ottawa925 says:

    YES, I’m still on Tracy … SORRY … I can’t get over this guy with 4 kids with 4 different women ….

    BELOW the Tracy “MO” Song:

  6. eastern2western says:

    friday will be one interesting day because the defense is going for the jugular. If nelson does not make a decision after the hearing, it is very likely that she will forever delay her decision. we all remember how 2/5/13 passed her by quickly. she never made a judgment in court, but wanted to delay the deposition till she reads the affidavit. then numerous days later, we were still waiting. it is odd that this crazy woman does not want to make any schedule changes, but she seems to be killing precious time on critical witnesses and evidences. may be corey has been giving her back rubs in her office. who knows.

  7. boricuafudd says:

    What gets to me is the arrogance of people like Crump. Now that the cat is out of the bag, and he has admitted the family hired him to file wrongful deaths suits, even before TM was buried, he wants to lawyered up. The Scheme Team has caused untold damage to this country, in the search of a payout. He continues to lie and obfuscate, and now he wants us to believe that even though his intention was to file untold lawsuits, he only spoke to his key witness once, sorry, now he admits an earlier conversation, twice. That he did not know her name, that he did not investigate her claims, and did any sort of follow-up. This witness who was blowing GZ absurd claims of self-defense, and opened the road to riches.

    Of course, he does not want to be disposed and be exposed. Slimy animals always find the cracks to squirm, thru. My only hope is that people’s eyes will be opened and see them for what they are, corrupt, liars, immoral, greedy and evil. There will be no justice after this is done, even if GZ prevails and is able to collect from all those that allowed to be led by the lies committed by the Scheme Team, he has lost a year of his life and will be forever hunted by this. Luckily for GZ he did not pay the ultimate price, but some others did, in the name of Trayvon.

    • ottawa925 says:

      I’m wondering … how is it wrongful death if the victim was in the process of trying to kill another person? “You’re gonna die tonight MF”. George didn’t go for his gun immediately. Only reason he even touched his gun was because Trayvon went for it with intent to shoot George with it. One of George’s “intents” was to stay alive while being beaten to a pulp. Another “intent” was George screaming for help for someone to come and pull Trayvon off of him … THAT was George’s intent … cause he was going to lose consciousness, and we would have read a blip in the paper about hispanic watch person shot with his own gun by some unknown person wearing a hoodie that police are still looking for … cause you don’t think Trayvon would have stuck around do you? and since nobody knew him or recognized him from the hood …. well there you have it.

      So again I ask … how do you prove wrongful death in a case where the victim tried to kill another person? Anyone?

      • partyof0 says:

        The obvious way would be to say that George was felony assaulting Trayvon’s fist with his nose, eyes and scull and basically STARTED it this way…and why is it assumed that thru all the events that night, the whole time George KNEW trayvon DIDN’T have a gun of his own?

      • boricuafudd says:

        The problem is that juries at civil trial where only the preponderance of the evidence is needed, award damages. Even if TM was killed in the commiction of a crime and there was clear conclusive evidence of this, video tape for example, juries have awarded damages.

  8. rumpole2 says:

    Hear Ye! Oyez! Oyez! Oyez!

    Announcing a new POLL

    POLL: Will Nelson Grant Motion to Depose Crump?

    • John Galt says:

      I’m going to say NO. Nelson was going to grant Blackwell’s previous no prior notice oral request to block Crump’s deposition, even before he finished making it, before he offered Crump’s affidavit, before he filed a single scrap of paper. Now that Blackwell has filed an 18 page smoke screen which he will support with additional verbal mumbo jumbo at the hearing, I see no reason for former prosecutor Nelson to alter her pro-prosecution course. I hope I’m wrong.

      • rumpole2 says:

        You can cast a vote (need to register)

        It is frustrating that most things in this case come down to a GUESS.
        There seems to be no logic to things…. no matter what the “law” suggests it seems decisions really come down to the whim of Judge Nelson. I voted “yes” more out of wishful thinking than anything. I do think it is yet another “test” of how Nelson is handling this case. I think a final test. IF she says NO (and she well may) then I think I will put optimism on hold, hunker down and wait for the end of the lower court farce and look forward to some sense from the DCA.

    • boricuafudd says:

      I say NO. Judge Nelson has not shown any proclivity towards the defense, in fact quite the opposite. The decisions in the Defenses favor were give me decisions, anything else she has denied.

      • canadacan says:

        Judge Nelson’s colleagues at the beginning of her taking over this case had her properly pegged. she was the worst choice possible.
        This has evolved into a kangaroo court and I don’t see how judge Nelson can look at her face in the mirror.

        I do completely believe the George will go free. But it is going to be a long hard fought process. appeals ,trials etcetera.
        That is why you have to stick to the fight when you’re hardest hit. it’s a specially then you must not quit. it is a life strategy and philosophy that truly works. it is possible to outlast the bastards who to try to grind you down.

        • canadacan says:

          During the Civil War someone was close to Ulysses S Grant described him as the man with the look on his face that he would put his head through a brick wall in order to succeed. this was a man who understood adversity.
          Whether you like Omara or not I think it is up to us to support George in every way possible so he can put his head through a brick wall of a rig ged setup and succeed. this is a matter of strictly out last in g the bastards.

          • Dust covered man on a dust covered horse. Tugboat – if you are reading this you should get a copy of Grant’s autobiography and “Grant moves south.” By his mid-30s, Grant had failed at everything he tried. After he left the army, in the mid 1850s, he tried to make it on a Missouri farm called “Hardscrabble.” Pawned his watch to buy Christmas presents, sold firewood on the streets of St. Louis. The Civil War gave Grant an opportunity to re-make himself in his late 30s.

        • boricuafudd says:

          You are right, lawyers and commentators from the area were saying she was a pro-prosecution Judge. That this was a case out of the oil into the frying pan for GZ. I am curious why MOM did not know this. It was common knowledge around the area.

      • boutis says:

        Agree. “No Riots” Nelson wants an appeal judgeship, Corey wanted a bigger pension as did BDLR, and the Gov wants this over and done and out of the newspapers by the electioneering calender. May I say I don’t think they were counting on Beasley digging around and they are worried about who is talking to who and about what. Florida is a snake pit.

        • canadacan says:

          As long as we have some of the snakes on our side I don’t give a hoot.

          • canadacan says:

            That comment of mine was a little Cavalier so let me rephrase. The judicial system in Florida is a national disgrace. Erik Erikson said he was disappointed and Governor Scott because of some other stuff. nothing that pond scum does ,permits or promotes surprises me. he is a bad man.
            Back to the case of George, if we can find some snakes that will work with our side and that Beasley can work with. Whatever works baby this is a barroom brawl . to quote Sean Connery in the movie The Untouchables: they send 1 of our guys to the hospital, we send 1 of theirs to the morgue. what are you prepared to do( metaphorically speaking).
            Omara and West what are you prepared to do. I hope you read this because what are you prepared to do!!!!!!!

          • boutis says:

            Sometimes you gotta use a snake to catch a snake. I agree with you. It is hard to catch a fraud if you cannot think like one.

    • ejarra says:

      I’ll vote there. But I want to say NO she won’t. She will vote based on what she is told to do and NOT what the LAW or Constitution says.

  9. stevie g says:

    Crump makes much of his client’s desire to sue gz in an effort to become “opposing counsel.” But he is not opposing counsel in the criminal case. Anyone can see that. He really wants to be all these things he isn’t–opposing counsel, private prosecutor and even a sword-wielding Gideon. In reality he is just a hate monger who seems to have something to hide. Any real attorney knows how to handle a deposition.

    • libby says:

      That is why crump KNEW the least important thing for him to do was verify who he was interviewing

    • JB from SoCal says:

      “Thank you, we needed that. This is the second time we’ve ever played in front of people, man. We’re scared shitless.” Stephen Stills at Woodstock, Monday, August 18 at 3 AM.


      “I be’s scared shitless, Blood.” Benjamin L. Crump to law partner Daryl D. (DeeDee) Parks, Friday morning Feb. 22, 2013, 8 AM.

      • JB from SoCal says:

        Mose Allison Trio 1962 ~ Your Mind Is On Vacation (2:37)

        You sittin there yakkin right in my face
        I guess I’m gonna have to put you in your place
        You know if silence was golden
        You couldn’t raise a dime
        Because your mind is on vacation and your mouth is workin’ overtime

        You quotin’ figures and droppin’ names
        You tellin’ stories about the days
        You’re overlaughin’ when things ain’t funny
        You tryin’ to sound like big money
        You know if talk was criminal
        You’d lead a life of crime
        Because your mind is on vacation and your mouth is workin’ overtime

        You know that life is short
        Talk is cheap
        Don’t be makin’ promises that you can’t keep
        You don’t like this little song I’m singin’
        Just grin and bear it
        All I can say is if the shoe fits wear it
        And if you must keep talkin
        Please try to make it rhyme
        Because your mind is on vacation and your mouth is workin’ overtime

      • Sha says:

        You guys have some good music going on……..

      • jello333 says:

        ;) ;) And I hope Benny knows that the brown acid that’s going around is not particularly too good.

    • John Galt says:

      MJW at talkleft:

      “Blackwell’s argument is that Crump can’t be deposed because he’s opposing counsel, even though he’s not opposing counsel and Florida doesn’t prohibit deposing opposing counsel. I expect Judge Nelson will buy it.”

      • canadacan says:

        I expect she will too. there is nothing for the immediate moment that the defense can do about it

      • recoverydotgod says:

        As someone who is not a lawyer, I think the illuminating of “properly interview” a witness would have as more impact to people watching [which includes the media] than just illuminating Ben Crump is not “opposing counsel”. He did interview a key witness on 3/19. Was that interview handled properly in any stretch of the Florida bars justice system’s meaning? Is having parents, brother, cousin, aunt and media and somehow coming away from that interview saying she’s 16 years old a proper interview?

        I don’t think the judge will allow the deposition.

        • libby says:

          Maybe the bars’ rules dont apply to crump and his ilk or maybe he just thinks the rules dont apply to him

          • recoverydotgod says:

            Don West is saying rules apply to attorneys…and I respect him for it…especially because he gave up his job to carry that message I am presuming.

        • thefirstab says:

          That is my hope as well — IANAL either. However, when this scenario takes place as you stated, and the only “judicial authority figure”, so to speak, is connected to the victim’s family…. I believe one term for it is called Conflict of Interest?

  10. stevie g says:

    uh, thank ya, judge ma’am.

  11. Surrealdreamer says:

    Hi, I came across your site by accident but realized after reading it that I have heard of it before. I am not a conservative nor am I a Liberal, I am an independent because I choose to think for myself rather than following someone elses ideology.

    I have spent alot of time following this case reading the evidence that has been released so far by both sides. The forensics, the autopsy reports etc. I have also read through all the documents on the GZlegalcase website. Unless there is some evidence that has not come out, it does not appear to favor George. Just based on what has been released so far is there something that I am missing? He seems to have alot of supporters on this site claiming the evidence shows he is innocent would you be so kind as to point me in the direction of that evidence? I feel as though I am missing something. Do you get the inside scoop from the defense because I have been unable to locate the information/evidence that many of the posters are using to claim George’s innocence?

    I have been struggling with wanting to donate to the GZ Legal defense fund but feel that I need to have all the evidence available to make an informed educated decision and so far the only evidence(autopsy reports, Osterman book, Forensics witness statements etc) have left me with the conlusion of guilt so if there is evidence you have or can lead me to, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

    By the way not that it should matter but I am a 40 year old white mother of 3 boys.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Hi, I came across your site by accident but realized after reading it that I have heard of it before. I am not a conservative nor am I a Liberal, I am an independent because I choose to think for myself rather than following someone elses ideology.

      Is this some new Concern TrollBot training algorithm?

      I have spent alot of time following this case reading the evidence that has been released so far by both sides. The forensics, the autopsy reports etc. I have also read through all the documents on the GZlegalcase website. Unless there is some evidence that has not come out, it does not appear to favor George.

      Oh, I get it. You’re not a Concern TrollBot; you’re a JQ SchemeTeamBot.

      Just based on what has been released so far is there something that I am missing? He seems to have alot of supporters on this site claiming the evidence shows he is innocent would you be so kind as to point me in the direction of that evidence? I feel as though I am missing something. Do you get the inside scoop from the defense because I have been unable to locate the information/evidence that many of the posters are using to claim George’s innocence?

      Show some initiative to read what’s been presented here. We’re not going to spoon-feed you the entire case history.

      And, you first: since you’re the one asking, you show us the objective evidence that proves that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder.

      • disgustedwithjulison says:

        I will try to help this along….Surreal Dreamer….here is the definition of 2nd Degree Murder: Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable “heat of passion” or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender’s obvious lack of concern for human life.

        Now, Surreal Dreamer, comb through all of the evidence you have reviewed and detail what construes “dangerous conduct” in GZ’s actions, his lack of concern for human life, and that this was intentional (e.g. GZ decided to kill TM that night). There is nothing in the record that supports the charges, and, in fact at the initial bond hearing, the prosecutor admitted he had nothing that would support the charges.

        So….crickets….start showing us what evidence you have discovered that fits the crime.

        • Chip Bennett says:

          I will try to help this along….Surreal Dreamer…

          SurrealDreamer isn’t here for honest, forthright discourse. You’ll just be wasting your time.

          • libby says:

            But, dont you know, trayvon had zero responsibilities and george has zero rights.
            George’s family also should have no rights, whatsoever, just as trayvon’s family should have zero responsibility (this is the black and white world some folks live in)

          • canadacan says:

            Surreal dreamer fairy tales can come true it can happen to you

          • sundance says:

            Chip is astute.

            Astute and correct.

            Good catch and deconstruction Chip. Well done.

            • Chip Bennett says:

              Good catch and deconstruction…

              Well, if they’re going to make it so obvious

              And you know me: I give the benefit of the doubt to everyone, initially.

              • jello333 says:

                I think it’s kinda telling that you and I and a couple of others who normally give a suspected troll the benefit of the doubt, and immediately start filling them in about the facts of the case, didn’t do so this time. Hmm…. are we getting more cynical in our old age, or what? ;)

      • gzsupporter says:

        Bravo Chip! Your response was EXCELLENT! I loved the last line…

        “And, you first: since you’re the one asking, you show us the objective evidence that proves that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder.” You instantly smelled a rat and responded accordingly.

        You are one of my favorite commenters here! I never told you that and *this* seemed like the perfect opportunity to tell ya. Keep up the good work!

    • rumpole2 says:

      Is that you Teeto?

      Sorry you have missed out being quoted in my Daily Daft Posts lately. The other JQ gals have really stepped it up a notch.. with the hate and stupidity and all.
      Your posts are ALWAYS contenders.. but just miss out. Don’t panic! Pace yourself and be patient. You are not featured tomorrow either.. but in time you might be.
      No need to go to all the trouble of posting here yourself… I WILL get to you……
      Trust me! :D

    • Floridianne says:

      If you have been left with the conclusion of guilt, why on earth would you be struggling with wanting to donate to the defense fund of a murderer? Evil much?

    • JB from SoCal says:

      Gotta love those Concern Trolls. I remember when Barry Soetoro used to periodically send them over to us @ http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/
      Seems like they always sorta overdo the “concern” part, n’est-ce pas?

    • eastern2western says:

      why do these people still question the evidence in this case? They do not support zimmerman? we never cared about a person’s race, but she brings it up automatically just to maker self seem neutral. god, it is the same old crap again. they claim zimmerman started the fight because he followed martin in the dark of the night. then we tell them following does not equal confrontation. I am tired of these types of arguments already. Despite us bringing out case laws, history and everything else, these trolls will always jump all over the place just to convict zimmerman. yawn.

    • waltherppk says:

      What was your objective conclusion regarding the disclosure of the complete and diligently performed forensics report on all the phones involved in the case, which should have been completed during the initial investigation and provided as required by law in the initial discovery disclosure for Brady compliance ? Oh wait ….since that KEY FORENSIC evidence has been suppressed without EXPLANATION then obviously you could not form any conclusion regarding that Discovery disclosure of KEY EVIDENCE since it has not yet been produced by the State. Don’t you think it is just a little strange how such KEY EVIDENCE would be suppressed? Do you honestly believe it is some sort of “clerical oversight” or “inadvertant omission” that the GPS data and ping logs and other forensic evidence which in FACT was available to police IMMEDIATELY who were investigating a homicide almost a year ago has not yet been disclosed ? What is the State of Florida hiding ? Pam Bondi publicly promised that no stone would be left unturned by the State’s investigation of the death of Trayvon Martin ? So where is the evidence found under the first rock the state turned over ? Why is Pam Bondi a proven liar ? Why does a judge who is supposed to be supervising and resolving any Discovery omissions or issues NOT responding to State caused discovery delays with the Court’s OWN order setting a Richardson hearing to address the matter of the State hindering defense preparation by suppressing KEY EVIDENCE that is nearly a year late being produced and has still not been disclosed, and to make scheduling of any Immunity Hearing or Trial be delayed until Discovery disclosure of material evidence has been completed ? It is not the DEFENSE who has been stonewalling and delaying discovery ……it is the STATE. So what is the State HIDING ? Why doesn’t the State follow the law and play by the rules… IF the State has a “strong case” like it has falsely claimed to try to justify not using a Grand Jury, and to try to justify setting an excessive bond ? If the state ever had a strong case then why doesn’t the state just put its cards on the table instead of playing hide and seek about the evidence ?

      • libby says:

        The scum bag lame stream media told the world over and over again that the defense was stalling (but anyone who has indeed read all the defense materials on gzlegal would know that it has been the state that has been delaying as walther elucidated so well)

      • jello333 says:

        Walther for the WIN

    • jello333 says:

      Wow. I think any of us here could write you about a 50-page document detailing why the facts and evidence lean HEAVILY in George’s favor. But how ’bout this: How ’bout you ask a specific question, about a specific piece of evidence or detail or whatever, and then one of us will explain things. Then after that, on to the next specific question, etc. I personally would have no problem with that. But just saying, “Here’s all the reasons George is innocent, and the State’s case is weak and fraudulent:”… umm, no… that would take days, I mean literally.

    • cassandra says:

      As Chip says, read to catch up. You can also read Talkleft, blog by defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt.

    • gzsupporter says:

      Look, “Surrealdreamer” ANYONE who has spent *any* amount of time following this case has heard of the CTH by now. NO ONE finds us “by accident”. Maybe a year ago, but not now. The CTH is a HUGE thorn in every TM supporter’s side. Including yours…obviously.
      It is overtly obvious you ARE a TM supporter who is trying a wee bit too hard to come off as sincere. You want so much to believe GZ yet you go on to claim that EVERYTHING does not appear to favor him. Go figure. Don’t play devil’s advocate here. It’s annoying and an insult to all of us who DO believe GZ. Anyone who spends more than a minute here can conclude these people have spent countless hours researching this case. They are well-informed and intelligent and by acting sincere you are insulting their collective intelligence.

      You want to know if you’re “missing” something… Yep. To start with truth and logic. Oh, and SELF-DEFENSE. You may want to research what that means and get back to us.
      You claim to have tried so hard to find ANY evidence to prove GZ’s innocence and wonder if any of us have an “inside scoop”…Seriously?

      You’re “struggling” with wanting to donate to GZ’s legal defense yet ALL the evidence leads you to one conclusion. GZ is guilty. Did ya really think we’d tried to talk to out of what you’ve already concluded – probably since day one?
      I spewed coffee all over my screen on that one! EVERYTHING tells you GZ is guilty but you’re still “struggling” to donate??? You want us to provide PROOF to prove you wrong?

      And, to add you’re “White” served what purpose? Why did ya feel that was worthy of mentioning? Seems to be what a lot of TM’s supporters are falling back on these days. As if this somehow “proves” how “honest” they are. Did you think this would help us to determine you’re sincerity and we’d think you were more credible than if you said you were purple with yellow polka dots…or um, Black?

      Go away, troll.

  12. maggiemoowho says:

    Is a States Attorney General notified of every shooting that happens in their State? Would Sanford have notified Pam Bondi about this or any other shooting the same day or day after ? Anyone know how that works.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Very doubtful that anyone from Sanford called Bondi. You can bet that once Tracy Martin got Crump involved, that Crump saw $$ signs & called his ol’ buddy Bondi. Follow the money…

      • waltherppk says:

        You got it ……the Black Grievance Industry opportunistically rides again …..and there was an EARLY publicity effort at “name association” with the name “Martin” in the Sanford case “black child victim narrative” to tangentially associate with the “boot camp case” involving “another Martin” which was the Martin Lee Anderson “black child victim” whose family also “coincidentally” (of course) was represented in “Litigation” by one Benjamin “do it for the Benjamins” Crump now having achieved Black Grievance Industry fame for his “wrongful death settlement” skills at wringing money out of “white guilt ridden” taxpayers to settle liability suits with the surviving family of “black child victims”.
        Crump is a “settlement facilitator” who works on commission / contingency in cases where “political pressure” (read that as threatened race riots) can be convincing it is cheaper to settle liability claims than to call out the national guard and settle things a different way.

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Some of those photos from the Martin Anderson case look identical (just different actors) to photos of this case. Same stage different actors.

          • waltherppk says:

            Yeah the same players and the same racist rabble rousing game plan, it is enough to make a man nostalgic about the way that race baiting “instigators” were managed in days gone by….and to see a time when those days could return…as a necessity.

  13. Nettles18 says:

    The legal team responds to the blatantly biased pieces of opinion coming from Jonathan Capehart of the Washington post.

    “…we understand that such is wholly allowed in an opinion piece, but we suggest his responsibility as a journalist should also impact his presentation.”


    • John Galt says:

      “But this photo was used as part of the media [and political lobbying / intimidation] campaign orchestrated by the Martin family attorneys to have George Zimmerman arrested”

      In the context of the pending motion to depose Crump, I note that many of Crump’s activities in connection with the case do not fall within the definition of “legal services” and accordingly can not properly fall within the scope of protection afforded by the attorney client privilege and the attorney work product doctrine. I further suggest that a media and political lobbying / intimidation (NO JUSTICE NO PEACE) campaign intentionally based on widespread dissemination of outright lies and conducted for the purpose of financial gain is in fact a criminal conspiracy which may well serve as a proper basis for piercing any otherwise applicable privileges via the crime-fraud exception.

      • Nettles18 says:

        And intimidation. A lawyer for the family retweeted this.

        • John Galt says:

          Legal Services ?

          • Sha says:

            I have a gag reflects every time I see Crumps face…. :evil:

          • boutis says:

            This is more in the area of marketing. Specifically creating a demand for your product. Your product is not needed, wanted nor fits into any specialty niche and it is not selling. Before you give up on it you consider modifying it or marketing it as something that everyone must have. Or both. This where Julison came in. He created a demand and Crump modified the product in coming up with a witness to a crime. Your product is no longer a sad case of justifiable homicide but a murder victim with survivors who want to be compensated and the must have is justice for TM.

            • thefirstab says:

              “He created a demand and Crump modified the product in coming up with a witness to a crime”
              Marketing 101 – craft the message to your chosen audience/demographic for maximum appeal.

            • libby says:

              They dont care if they are marketing a flying pig that cant fly. the media is telling the world how wonderful their flying pig is

        • pbunyan says:

          Nothing better to assure justice than an angry mob surrounding the courthouse! /sarc

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Well, if Crump told that reporter that the Hollister photo was from 2011, that would be a lie. That photo was posted on TM’s myspace page and a cousin commented on it back in March 26, 2010. Glad that GZ legal addressed those articles from that so-called reporter.

    • canadacan says:

      Thank you so much for sharing that. Omara is academically sound. that shows that there is plenty of fight in the defense team and maybe there was a bit of M
      ister West i n that answer. good for them.
      This is on the job training for oMara very very hard on George’s family and George but they’re sticking to the fight and that shows me something. is this case it’s going to have to be not the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog. George has been declared an enemy of the state and that’s awesome thing to have to take on. this Fandango is going to have to be played up with the cards that George is been dealt and has chosen to deal with. it’s going to be horrific but it can be done. you simpl ey. . Outlast everybody that is against you.
      Also some people here have put in some wonderful biblical quotes for George. now this is where the rubber hits the road you’re going to have to put your money where your mouth is. whatever you can afford George needs help

      • Angel says:

        “Also some people here have put in some wonderful biblical quotes for George. now this is where the rubber hits the road you’re going to have to put your money where your mouth is. whatever you can afford George needs help”

        Speaking for myself, I will gladly donate again to the defense fund and had temporarily stopped my contribution to “Children International” to send it GZ’s way. I don’t presume to tell the defense how to spend the money but just have some thoughts about things. I am going to see how the hearing goes tomorrow; If I decide not to, I would love to send the money to GZ directly to at least help out with living expenses but there is no way to do that.

        • justfactsplz says:

          Angel, maybe the Zimmermans will read your post and find a way to let you know how you can give directly to George.

          • thefirstab says:

            I would also be very interested in that info.

          • Angel says:

            “Angel, maybe the Zimmermans will read your post and find a way to let you know how you can give directly to George.”

            Maybe. I was wondering if there was a way to state on the donation form that this is for living expenses only! I will figure it out.

            • aliashubbatch says:

              I like your new gravatar.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Maybe you could ask Sundance to email them and they could answer him how to do it, I don’t know.

            • justfactsplz says:

              I just thought of something else that would work. George’s parents have a website of their own where they write about their life and also take donations. They are also in dire straights. They cannot live in their home but still have to pay plus pay for another place to live. Anyway you could in the note where you donate say you want it to go to George’s living expenses. Thr website is http://www.robertandgladys.com.

              • Angel says:

                “They are also in dire straights. They cannot live in their home but still have to pay plus pay for another place to live. Anyway you could in the note where you donate say you want it to go to George’s living expenses. ”

                Great minds think alike, justfactsplz. I thought of doing that too. Thanks.

    • diwataman says:

      You know, at this point, I don’t even want to read it. So everyone over there has time to sit around and read articles by whogivesacrap yet can’t post a shred of discovery? And gee, ya think they might want to be a little more worried about what Judge ‘you aint gettin’ shit’ Nelson has been saying. Can we at least see a color photo of the damn Skittles?!?

      • Angel says:

        “And gee, ya think they might want to be a little more worried about what Judge ‘you aint gettin’ shit’ Nelson has been saying.

        +1 yes sir!

      • Angel says:

        I applaud MOM’s effort at trying to tone down negativity regarding GZ’s case but that really hasn’t worked overall with people who have a proclivity to think the worse of GZ and this case. It’s not like the writer of that article is going to think, “Geez, MOM gave me something to think about, maybe I have this wrong. Let me write a more balanced article.”

        It’s time to come out swinging like the rest. All is fair in love and war.

      • jello333 says:

        All joking aside about the hearing vs trial, cake bets, etc…. I’m with you. It’s long past time for MOM and West to take this to the next level. Tomorrow is BIG! I don’t know what to expect from Nelson, but that’s not my main concern. I’m mostly gonna be watching what our guys do IN RESPONSE TO whatever Nelson does. Both in open court, and in the post-hearing presser (assuming there is one), and in filings (to DCA) in the coming days.

      • justfactsplz says:

        Just a bone even if it’s a milkbone.

  14. Sha says:

    This is for all my Treeper friends ! http://youtu.be/ZJ4LHHb5c1E

  15. Springstreet says:

    Although the Schemers and their Judge/Persecutors may appear to have an interest in “Win, Lose or Draw”, I believe their real concern is only: If you dare to Draw … then we’ll make you Lose … because the State Wins … if they alone have the guns. So alas … I fear the Axelrod/MSM assault weapon narrative is set. Judgeless Nelson will not allow Crump to be deposed. The DD(s) “testimony” will disappear … like the fateful day’s phone records. The extended Martin family will remain teary eyed … and plead the Fifth. Then, just as George would not allow the mother of his mentored black teens to come to his assistance, the unenviable jury will bow to the threat of that same violent mob. George must lose … so The Man (with the son who would look just like Trayvon) can follow his gun control “dreams”. Justice be damned … but I hope I’m wrong.

  16. Angel says:

    ,”Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience stands He waiting, with exactness grinds He all.
    In other words, God (and therefore, Justice) may take a long time to occur, nevertheless, it will happen. An Elder in the Mormon faith stated “God doesn’t balance His books in October”, which is a from a story about a rich, but wicked man who had a full harvest, and barns full of grain. While he was prosperous, many good people were poor and hungry. When a boy asked his father why he should be good, when goodness hadn’t helped them to be rich, or even comfortable–and the worst man they knew was doing so well at the harvest, (October) the father simply replied, “Son, God doesn’t balance His books in October.)
    This is the essence of justice waiting for God to enact it. Some faiths call it Karma. (One of my favorites is “Nobody gets out of this life alive; we’re all sentenced to what we deserve.)
    Justice delayed is NOT justice denied; it’s just delayed. And there will be justice.”

    This holds promise no matter what side we are on. Someone made a comment on twitter regarding this case that he, being a TM supporter, was glad to be on the right side of justice. As if justice can have a wrong side. Justice may be right or wrong depending on one’s perspective. But from the final Arbiter of Divine Justice? Nah! Justice will always be signed, sealed and delivered and sometimes not in the form or time we expect it. Count on it.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Well said, Angel!

      • Angel says:

        “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” John 7:24.

        All the character in this legal drama will be judged by the motives of their heart in the end. If there is an injustice that was committed because of impure motives from anyone , it will be balanced even though it appears on the surface it won’t be.

        Because of man’s capriciousness, fallibility and corruptibility , he can appear to circumvent justice. But that is just the appearance of things.

      • Sha says:

        Very well said ! :)

    • Sharon says:

      Angel, The Message (a translation) of Psalm 82 reads like this:

      God calls all the judges into his courtroom, he puts all the judges in the dock.

      “Enough! You’ve corrupted justice long enough,
      you’ve let the wicked get away with murder.
      You’re here to defend the defenseless,
      to make sure that underdogs get a fair break;
      Your job is to stand up for the powerless, and prosecute all who exploit them.”

      Ignorant judges! Head-in-the-sand judges!
      They haven’t a clue to what’s going on.
      And now everything’s falling apart,
      the world’s coming unglued.

      “I commissioned you judges, each one of you,
      deputies of the High God,
      But you’ve betrayed your commission
      and now you’re stripped of your rank, busted.”

      Oh God, give them their just deserts!
      You’ve got the whole world in your hands!

      I was reminded of that when I read your comment–Psalm 82 was originally written with the corrupt judges of Israel in mind, but NT references also underscore that government and authorities are put in place by God’s design.

      Ultimately, they are accountable to Him. So, yeah, there’s an accounting ahead for them. They have either forgotten or never understood/acknowledged that there is a line of justice which will be applied to them which is not controlled by them.

      • Angel says:

        “They have either forgotten or never understood/acknowledged that there is a line of justice which will be applied to them which is not controlled by them.”

        Sha: Ah yes!! If we could understand that! Justice is not really ours to give or to withhold. Man is an instrument in upholding the ideals of a higher law. However, until we get it, it is certainly entertaining (sometimes) and sad (most of the time) seeing what we are capable of because we think justice is ours to control.

        • Angel says:

          Sha: Ah yes!! Sorry about that Sharon since you were the author of this post :-)

          • Sha says:

            I wish I could write like Sharon she melts your heart and makes you put yourself in check ! Must be the mom in her ” Voice ” that voice of knowledge and wisdom ……….. :)

            • Angel says:

              “I wish I could write like Sharon she melts your heart and makes you put yourself in check ! ”

              Write like you Sha, there is no greater gift we can give to the world than the gift of our unique selves which cannot be duplicated or replicated :-)

  17. partyof0 says:

    If this Judge denies any Crump depos, and even though it won’t happen, this Judge will need to be asked why is an attorney, this attorney being protected AND from what specifically is he being protected from…demand it be spelled out in writing by her….I remember, I believe back in October, Judge Nelson saying…”we’ll make Mr Crump a witness”…have them read her own statement back to her….ask her what has changed since then…have her write it out….or is it Judges don’t need any reasons for the decisions they make…then recant?

    • partyof0 says:

      Also…I think the Defense needs to spell it out that they are using Crump as a “Defense Witness”…because if they weren’t using him as a prosecution witness….which he has inserted himself as…he would make a dang good rebuttal witness for himself….

      • canadacan says:

        Excellent points. can we hear from legal beagles

        • John Galt says:

          I dunno how they do things in Florida. In some jurisdictions, you can call an opposing witness, designate them as adverse, and then grill them with leading questions and impeach them with their deposition transcript and exhibits. Can get pretty ugly if the witness is not well prepared.

    • John Galt says:

      “I believe back in October, Judge Nelson saying…”we’ll make Mr Crump a witness”

      That announcement may have caught Bondi by surprise.

    • disgustedwithjulison says:

      judges do not need any reason to make their decisions. While they are appealable, the problem for the defense becomes where do they best expend their resources.

      I think if the GZ civil team decided that they wanted to push for RICO claims against Crump and the state, they would make sure that Judge Nelson’s decision will be appealled in this instance. They are an out-state law firm, which means they don’t give a sh*t about local politics or the local bar in Sanford/Orlando area.

      Crump will not be deposed. As sickening as our court system is, you will find that the judges decision not to allow him to be deposed will be either 1) her order with no explanation, or 2) Blackwell is currently emailing over the word document of his motion not to depose to Nelson’s law clerk to be copied and pasted into the Judge’s order. My bet will be an order with no explanation clearing Crump from being deposed.

      • John Galt says:

        “Blackwell is currently emailing over the word document of his motion not to depose to Nelson’s law clerk”

        Even easier:


        Having considered the papers, the case law, argument, and being otherwise duly advised in the premises, I find the legal authority and argument of Mr. Blackwell persuasive, and hereby grant Mr. Crump’s motion for protective order. Further, I find that the defense has failed to show that Mr. Crump, beyond matters fully set forth and detailed in his affidavit, is a material witness with respect to this case. Mr. Blackwell, please draft a proposed order.

        West: May I be heard. . .

        Nelson: I have ruled. Court is adjourned.

    • partyof0 says:

      I believe this is part of the reason…that is Judge Nelson stating that “we will make Mr Crump a witness”..that this is/was a contributing factor in Sundance question:

      sundance says:
      February 20, 2013 at 6:56 pm
      Ask yourself this question. Why was this, these constitutional and cited arguments, NOT presented in the October hearing for witness address?
      That has always baffled me.
      I said at the time both O’Mara, and unfortunately West, were insufferably short-sighted in not visibly challenging the judge to justify her position – it just did not make sense.
      Denial of witness identity is a BIG EFFEN DEAL. Not only was Nelso ridiculously wrong, but O’Mara and West just did the potted plant routine in the face of it.
      No-One has been able to reconcile why West/O’Mara just let that *sit* unchallenged.

      ….It was left unchallenged because they thought that when Judge Nelson dangled that meat (Crump) over their (O/West’s) heads….In that Judge Nelson had already stated that Crump was to be made a witness…then….”SURPRISE!!!”….”I changed….I mean Mr Blackwll changed my mind for me”…”he will not be made a witness or deposed”…so sorry…things just got “a little(get off)” unsurmountable.

      • jello333 says:

        I think you’re right. I think that would explain a lot of the way MOM and West have acted at various times. Almost like they’re a bit naive… they just can not believe that the prosecution, and even the judge, are intentionally playing games. “Eh, maybe this was just a fluke. Now that we’ve called them on it, they’ll realize what they’re doing is wrong, and we can get back to business.” That kinda comes through even with Don West, in some of his emails to Bernie. It has the “Are you serious?” feel to it. But whatever illusions the guys may have been under up till now, I think are now gone. I think they’re prepared for just about anything tomorrow, and if things go badly, they WILL be prepared to take action.

        • boricuafudd says:

          A simpler explanation is that they have been unprepared and have been rode roughshod over. Everyone, literally, non-lawyers know that you have the right to face your accusser. It is only under extremes circumstances when arrangements have been made to protect the witnesses from danger. I really think that MOM did not expect to be denied the information he needed, and were left mouth opened, looking bewildered. The same thing happened with Mr. Blackwell, they were not prepared to respond properly. They are being outplayed, and are like 2 moves behind.

  18. brutalhonesty says:

    reposting the link….everyone please take a second to post a pro-gz message.

    how to recognize propaganda: “trayvon was my god given son”
    This is when an idea is made to appear holy, sacred, or very special and therefore above all law. Any alternative or opposite points of view are thereby given the appearance of treason or blasphemy.
    Examples: “God-given right to…”, “Mother Earth”, “Gia”.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      maybe diawataman can add some of his vids like the 7-11 3 stooges to a “video reply”?

      • brutalhonesty says:

        wow so the goal of the foundation has yet again morphed. first it was just want an arrest, then a conviction, then change the syg law, then for a political voice, now its for the kids. its a fraud….i will say……it seems to be getting closer to the truth of the problem that got him killed……”mentors”…..”stay in school”….”get them off the streets”……because that is the truth…if he had a true male role model, treated school seriously, and wasnt roaming sanford while suspended and with $100 to smoke up, and possibly hanging with the local “goons”(3 stooges), he would be alive today.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      What a rediculous ad for gun control. The WH didn’t even invite them to any of the Gun Control events because it would have been conterproductive to POTUS agenda. They didn’t want to give people any examples that show a need to carry a weapon for self defense. Society didn’t fail their son, they did.

  19. dalec911 says:

    Have you heard about the lawsuite against Skechers shape-up shoes? I saw a commercial over the weekend in Ocala FL. It was going on with things like if you have tripped, fallen stumbled or hurt yourself in anyway while wearing these shoes, you could sue the Skechers shoe company. As I’m watching the commercial, I’m thinking what an ambulance chasing law firm this must be. Guess what firm it was? Parks and Crump!

  20. RockyMtnMama says:

    Does anyone have a link for watching today’s hearing that’s about to start?

  21. creepytwins says:

    Tamper with a witness (or invent one) and then claim you can’t be disposed in the murder trial because you are the attorney is the civil lawsuit. Any judge would see through this ruse… right?

    • eastern2western says:

      a civil lawsuit that will occur in the infinite future. currently, they do not have a law suit against zimmerman.

      • creepytwins says:

        There’s no doubt in my mind that they’re going to try to make money off this dead kid one way or another. I’ll wager that most of that money won’t be going to charity. And the ironic thing is that George will probably donate some of his money (from defamation lawsuits) to organizations that help kids from broken homes stay out of trouble.

      • boutis says:

        Until they know what GZ’s immunity status there is no point in filing one so he hasn’t. So Crump is asking not to be deposed because of a possible civil suit against someone who may be immune although charged because of the very person (Crump) who demanded a criminal charging with his “found witness” so he could file a civil suit against someone who may be found immune. Yes i am dizzy from the circular process which is this case.

  22. stevie g says:


    now that is one scared horse!

  23. ottawa925 says:

    Now please straighten me out if I am wrong cause I wanna get this right. In connection with the deposition of Crump … MOM/West want to center that dep on the circumstances surrounding DD, and interview of DD … correct? are there any other areas they want to address? Just don’t want to assume. I’ve read where they don’t intend to touch in area of wrongful death or suits Crump wants to file … that I get. Just want to know if Nelson does allow if she will put limits on what areas of questioning they can ask of Crump in his depo. Also, if she does grant the dep, this would be the time for MOM/West to bring up the “what if” scenarios … like … what if Crump refuses to answer a question … how do you want that handled, etc.

    • John Galt says:

      “MOM/West want to center that dep on the circumstances surrounding DD, and interview of DD … correct?”

      Not necessarily. Nelson previously ordered Crump’s deposition with respect to the DD interview recording. However, MOM noticed Crump’s depo pursuant to 3.220 (h)(1)(A):

      After receipt by the defendant of the Discovery Exhibit, the defendant may, without leave of court, take the deposition of any unlisted witness who may have information relevant to the offense charged.

      Unless restricted by a protective order, I think that the permitted scope of the deposition would be anything reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence, subject to attorney-client privilege and work product doctrine objections.

      “are there any other areas they want to address?”

      AFAIK, the defense has not specifically disclosed any other intended areas of inquiry, yet.

  24. ottawa925 says:

    Capehart has responded to GZlegal

  25. ottawa925 says:
    • ottawa925 says:
      • brutalhonesty says:

        yes what is up with serino having already all the talking points, innocent kid with a future never in trouble skittles and tea not a threat to george asking if george is white, talking about profiling, and using language that purports him guilty civilly since there was nothing criminal? and whats up with serino admitting he was pressure by black cops friendly with tracy? and whats up with serino doing one thing (writing 5 reports) while doing another in public (stating there is no evidence of a crime)? good questions indeed.

        on a side note, natalie wants to cast doubt on serinos credibility now, meanwhile their trolls quote his reports as proof of gz guilt. nonsense.

        • John Galt says:

          “on a side note, natalie wants to cast doubt on serinos credibility”

          Yep, she probably got the word on the content of Serino’s deposition. I wonder if Serino mentioned leaking stuff in confidence to Natalie that later came out of W8’s mouth?

          • cassandra says:


            • John Galt says:



              Serino also told the FBI that he didn’t think George was racist, but that he may have had something of a “hero complex”.

              On March 13, Crump team member Natalie Jackson is quoted in the Orlando Sentinel as saying:

              “Racism is too simple. It may have been a factor,” said family attorney Natalie Jackson. But also to blame was Zimmerman’s “hero complex.” He should never have gotten out of his vehicle and confronted Trayvon, she said.

              Serino’s interview was on March 3. Her comment reported in the Orlando Sentinel was on March 13. Who leaked Serino’s statement to Team Crump?

              Coincidence? Not in my mind.

              • woohoowee says:

                “Serino’s interview was on March 3. Her comment reported in the Orlando Sentinel was on March 13. Who leaked Serino’s statement to Team Crump?

                Coincidence? Not in my mind.”. (JG)

                No coincidence in my mind either. My hunch is that it wasn’t Serino himself. It will be very interesting to find out exactly who was influencing Serino.

              • Nettles18 says:

                I tried to find out what date Chris Serino’s statement to the FBI was to learn who was influencing who. My best chance of finding out what putting Ms. Robles on it, but while she contacted them she never shared what she learned if anything.

                Serino’s statement could not have been March 3rd. That was Trayvon’s funeral date. The FBI wasn’t involved until after March 20th I think. The family called for them to become involved on March 16th.

                So it was Natalie Jackson, I think, influencing Serino.

                • woohoowee says:

                  Hi Nettles :-). The Talk Left link provided by John Galt contains a link to the FBI document which states an interview date of March 3. Here’s a direct link to the document provided by Talk Left:


                  • Nettles18 says:

                    I did see the report and when I did I realized the date had to be wrong. The FBI wasn’t involved on March 3rd. I asked Ms. Robles to see if she could find out what date it really was and she said she noted it too plus some other inconsistencies. I never heard back from her on the subject though.

          • Nettles18 says:

            As Serino’s lawyer sent his capias and it’s revisions to the State saying it was likely “Brady Material”, that tells us Serino thinks what went on with the report is helpful to the defense.


            Why might they consider that Brady Material? In reading his statement to the FBI he says he felt pressure to bring charges. http://www.scribd.com/doc/99942204/Serino-s-FBI-Interview-2-Pges-1

            All indications are that Serino is going to be helpful to the defense. I think other’s sense it too.

            • woohoowee says:

              No reply button available to your last, so I’ll respond here.

              Duh! How dumb am I?! The date, March 3, is obviously wrong on the FBI report. In fact, now that you’ve so kindly taken the time to point it out, I remember this being discussed here at TCTH when that report came out. Thanks :-)

            • ottawa925 says:

              yeah, but pressure from who? cause through quoted sections of deps we heard that Serino just sat in those meetings and didn’t have much to say despite the fact that the others officers, including Chief, said George’s story checked out and there wasn’t anything to charge him on. Week after week Serino met with them and said nothing. So we pretty much can gather that it wasn’t his fellow officers … or the Chief that was putting any pressure on him. So who was making him offers he couldn’t refuse?

            • ottawa925 says:

              Can someone help to explain this to me … what is going on exactly and what does it mean? It’s not sinking in for me (what a surprise huh).

              Sgt. Santiago Dep of 10/1/12.

              It would begin on page 36 of the PDF,

              line 11, page 74 of the transcript to line 20, page 75 of the transcript.


              • jello333 says:

                Ah, yeah, I think the guy was upset the cops passed the case on to them (the prosecutors). They KNEW there was no case, and so they assumed the cops would say so after their investigation, and that would be the end of it. But instead, thanks to Serino’s capias, it got passed on to the prosecutors, leaving THEM holding the bag. And so now this guys is mad, wondering what THEY are supposed to do? Either they could try to figure out some way to frame George, and keep everyone happy, or they could be truthful and say there IS NO CASE. If they did the latter, all the heat would then be on THEM. It was basically a game of Hot Potato.

      • eastern2western says:

        if they want to cast doubt on serrino, then every thing that is collected in this case should be thrown out. without the evidences from sanford, I want to see how this case can go on.

        • John Galt says:

          Just keep track of her deleted tweets. She has a habit of ratting herself out, then deleting the incriminating tweets.

      • ottawa925 says:

        Did you guys look at her tweets? I only put up this to get you started. You can take a look to see the discussion.

      • HughStone says:

        Are they looking to Serino as a way out? Corrupt cop with a scumbag lawyer? Why would he need a lawyer during his depo? It’s like he is hiding something.

      • jello333 says:

        Wow, so I actually agree with Nasty Natty about something?!

        “Once again I have 2 ask, what’s up with Serino?”

    • ottawa925 says:

      Admin? can you delete the above. It was in error, meant to post the one I have posted below by Jackson. thank you in advance.

    • John Galt says:

      Next step: Capehart obtains emergency TRO to prevent BigBoi from tarnishing his professional image and banning her tweeting anything containing or otherwise associated with his name.

  26. stevie g says:

    Attorney Crump has a HUGE conflict of interest in these proceedings. If he is a wannabe prosecutor, then his duty is to ensure that justice is served for the people. Yet he really wouldn’t want a conviction because then Crump the opposing counsel in the civil lawsuit would get nothing. If gz were convicted by the jury (highly unlikely), then there is essentially no civil lawsuit. You can’t get blood from a stone.

    Likewise, if gz walks after the immunity hearing, then Crump the opposing counsel is out of luck and has to go find another victim, er, client.

    The only hope for Crump the opposing counsel in a civil lawsuit is that gz is acquitted by a jury. Then gz will get big bucks and Crump can go after them. That was the OJ outcome, remember?
    (The civil standard of preponderance of the evidence is less than the criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.)

    His attorney probably told him to ease off on the being the prosecutor. If he does too good a job, he ends up with nuttin’.

    • jello333 says:

      Believe me, Crump is no longer thinking about civil suits and who he’s gonna sue. That’s the least of his concerns right now.

  27. partyof0 says:

    After tomorrow….approximately 12:35pm EDT?….we will know definitively what’s up with the “Judge”…right….AND if its as predicted and “Affidavits” are “trending” now…I am willing to sign an affidavit (hopefully with many other signatures…and yes I know it IS NOT done this way at ALL) saying that Crump has an insufferable amount of inconsistencies within his media appearences and if I’m called as a jurist, I would need those cleared up before I am called to duty…also, on other incidents of this caliber (actually political)….I have in the past signed a full page add in a local newspaper…that gets to people who are not internet/computer friendly…(as the case may be)…but overall it draws attention to this issue…which does need to be addressed…now…while it is happening….Anyone have any ideas on how to gain a LOT of attention on this matter? It WILL cost…it’s the only way….It’s like someone else said…why wasn’t THE Prez’s lookalike son mentioned at SOTU address….I want to know why…and I already think I know the answer to that.

    • partyof0 says:

      It’s just that the Prez inserted himself in this…not quite like Crump…for “other” political reasons…and now to keep the stink down…has to keep as much distance from this as possible AND still maintain control of it….I’d like to see him sucked back in on this….

    • ottawa925 says:

      I thought it was noticed for 1:30 EST? I’m central time so I will be looking for it to start 12:30 CST.

  28. sundance says:

    There is a lot going on in the case and background right now folks…… M-DSPD in full control mode too. Much to write about and share, but for now be wary of *new* visitors and concern trolling….

    ….. Always remember “The Truth Has No Agenda”


    Will share much soon….

  29. brutalhonesty says:

    FEBRUARY 21, 2013
    they accuse omara picks on african americnas who talk about tm leaving out the fact it is african americans who for the most part are reporting and attending tm rallies…they make baseless accusations of gz and omara “stalk, harass, intimidate “…oh wow this line is great “, honorary black dude Michael Skolnik) ” lmfao…..still claiming there was no documentation of the nose injury…they claim facts are character assasination…its not our fault the martins pretend tm was the 2004 version instead of who gz actually met….claiming omara “leaked” things to “thugify” trayvon (wrong, the media got it from the school and his own facebook, not from omara)..they pretend the “iconic” photo of trayvon isnt iconic, yet it accompanies every jftm post, article, rally, story, and video at the direction of the julison pr firm. they then claim “nothing is more american than hollister shirts” and that the intent wasnt to make him younger but to up-play that he is american. they claim it is “e fact that your client should have never left the police station ” and yet they claim that the problem with syg law is exactly that-it lets you leave the police station without an arrest……”I believe that anyone looking at that picture of a murdered Trayvon is going to know he was just a kid trying to get home to watch the game with his Skittles and Iced tea! ” and yet there was never any tea……they claim “The nutters and their ilk are the only ones coming out saying they were “tricked.”’ and yet its the fact of cognitive dissonance that prevents them from admitting they were tricked….they falsely accuse robert of “more like race-baiting, lying and chumming the water, “….

    they cant get anything right, nothing they say is close to the truth (unless you apply it to their side), and it is obvious they have an agenda that precludes truth, or else they wouldnt spend all their articles on slander and lies and would talk about things factually in evidence, and support their claims with links and screenshots compiled for all to see, as the treehouse does.

  30. brutalhonesty says:

    remeber the false claim “white neo-nazis” were “patrolling sanford”? check out this MARCH 15 2012 article (sidenote the pic they used…I totally forgot due to the photoshopping that there was another person in the background in the hollister pic)
    Trayvon Martin Case: Militia Group Wants To Arrest George Zimmerman, Florida Neighborhood Watch Leader By MIKE SCHNEIDER 03/15/12 07:30 PM ET
    ORLANDO, Fla. — Members of a self-described black militia group will attempt a citizen’s arrest on a white neighborhood watch leader who has admitted to fatally shooting an unarmed African-American teen in an Orlando suburb, but has not been charged, a leader of the group said Thursday.

    Members of The New Black Liberation Militia plan next week to take 28-year-old George Zimmerman to federal authorities since local police haven’t acted, said Najee Muhammad, a leader of the militia group.

    “We’ll find him. We’ve got his mug shot and everything,” Muhammad said.

    Sanford police did investigate but have declined for now to arrest Zimmerman who says he acted self-defense last month when he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Police say they have no evidence to disprove his assertion. They have since turned the case over to the State Attorney’s Office, and a spokeswoman said it could be weeks before a decision is made on whether to file charges or present the case to a grand jury.

    An attorney for the teen’s family said they are discouraging actions such as what the militia proposed.

    “They want justice at the hands of authorities and nobody else,” said attorney Benjamin Crump. “Everybody has a right to peacefully assemble but we certainly want to leave any kind of arrests … to the authorities.”

    A spokesman for Sanford police didn’t return an email seeking comment about the militia group’s plans. Zimmerman has a disconnected number and couldn’t be reached for comment.

    Moments before the shooting, Zimmerman had called police to report a suspicious person in the neighborhood. After a confrontation, he shot and killed Martin who was walking back from a convenience store to a house in the Sanford neighborhood where the teen’s father’s fiancee lived.

    Out of a population of 54,000, about 57 percent of Sanford residents are white and 31 percent are black, according to the 2010 U.S. Census. The median income is about $43,000.

    Martin’s family has criticized police for not arresting Zimmerman. They filed a lawsuit asking that the 911 tapes be released, but police have said the tapes are part of the investigation and will only be released once the State Attorney’s Office is done evaluating the case.

    A spokeswoman for the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group that monitors hate groups, said her organization didn’t have any information on The New Black Liberation Militia. The group describes itself on its website as “Developing and Teaching Spiritual, Psychological, Social, Holistic and Scientific Methods and Techniques to ensure the survival of black people in the 21st century and beyond.”

    Photos on the site show men dressed in fatigues and berets.

    There is no mention of citizen’s arrests in Florida’s criminal statutes but state courts have cited common law in establishing when such an arrest can be made. The crime has to be a felony. It has to be witnessed by the citizen making the arrest or the citizen has to have probable cause that the person being arrested is guilty of a felony.

    Orlando criminal defense attorney Patrick Cairns said members of the militia face a high legal hurdle in taking such action since they didn’t witness a crime. They could be charged with false imprisonment if they detain Zimmerman.

    “You do a citizen’s arrest only if you think the cops aren’t going to get there in time and you’re afraid somebody is going to leave the scene,” Cairns said.

    The family started an online petition for the State Attorney’s Office, demanding an arrest.

    “Trayvon was unarmed when he was shot by Zimmerman,” said the online petition, which has been signed by almost 215,000 people. “Please uphold justice.”

    • brutalhonesty says:

      cliffnotes: a bunch of black racist wanna be cop vigilantes wanted to stalk, harass, and detain george zimmerman after profiling him as white and therefor racist and therefor a murderer….without probable cause..while no law enforcement agency is seeking his arrest or capture…..and while the investigation is ongoing and george was in constant contact with SPD/FDLE as proven by the serino tapes.

      the quote that stands out the most: “You do a citizen’s arrest only if you think the cops aren’t going to get there in time and you’re afraid somebody is going to leave the scene,” Cairns said.

  31. brutalhonesty says:

    Tuesday, February 26, 2013
    6:00pm until 8:00pm in EST

    Union Square

    Please join Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin and their Attorneys Benjamin Crump and Daryl Parks for a candlelight vigil in Union Square.

    6 PM – Gather in Union Square (South Plaza)
    7:17 PM – Moment of Silence

    Show your support using the hashtag #millionhoodies

    Text JusticeTM to 50555 to donate $10.00 to The Miami Foundation for the benefit of the Trayvon Martin Foundation.

    Organized in partnership with JusticeTM.org and GlobalGrind.com

    Fan Page: https://www.facebook.com/MillionHoodies
    Join the movement: http://www.mhoodies.org

    • brutalhonesty says:

      about the event creator
      About Daniel
      Daniel Maree is a strategist, filmmaker, and writer with a passion for leveraging the unique resources and expertise of businesses and brands to create economic and social value. As a Senior Digital Strategist at McCann-Erickson, Maree created the Million Hoodies Movement for Trayvon Martin, which received 2 Silver Lions at the 2012 Cannes Advertising Festival, the world’s biggest annual awards show and festival for professionals in the creative communications industry.

      Maree has been featured in several publications (including the New York Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, and Advertising Age), been a featured speaker at conferences and universities around the globe, and written for the Huffington Post, Global Voices, and Takepart.com. Prior to joining McCann, Maree worked at the intersection of storytelling, media, and social action for multiple industry-leading organizations, including: Participant Media (An Inconvenient Truth, Food, Inc., The Cove), the World Bank (WDR 2011), and the Center for American Progress.

      Maree graduated magna cum laude with a BA in History, Philosophy, and Film from American University (’08) and is currently working on a documentary about political corruption in South Africa, where he was raised.

    • eastern2western says:

      “Text JusticeTM to 50555 to donate $10.00 to The Miami Foundation for the benefit of the Trayvon Martin Foundation.”
      so asking people donate money for exactly what? more money to pay for a suit that will happen some time in the future? oh come on!

    • jello333 says:

      “Sure Mom and Dad, it’s ok. I’m used to it by now. Just keep on rakin’ in that fame and fortune. I guess I was worth something to you after all, eh?” — Your scared, helpless little child, Trayvon

    • recoverydotgod says:

      Pam Bondi can call in again….

  32. brutalhonesty says:

    someone quick capture the real pic of trayvon one of his friends posted
    i see some muscular shoulders

     photo TrayvonSocial_zps2449bf4a.jpg

  33. eastern2western says:

    if this case does go south and the martins will not make a penny of any of the organizations or zimmerman, I am wonderring how the martins are going to pay off the legal costs. basically they have had a team of 4 lawyers (crump, park, jackson and rand) working for them for a year. at 300 bucks per an house, that is a small fortune in here. if zimmerman gets an aquittal from a jury, there is no freaking way that the martins could win their suit because the self defense verdict basically states martin is the attacker and zimmerman is the victim. all of the different insurance companies will use the criminal verdict as a base to dispute any civil suits from the martins. god, judging from the enormity of this case, I can not imagine how the crumpster will make his money back. of course, there will certainly be criminal investigations into the dd character. what lawyer in the galaxy will interview a critical witness without varification of the witness and check her facts before making it a public media event. crump is so stupid for pulling this bull crap for the media and never expected it to bite him in the buttoncks. haha, stupid trayvonites will always support him despite the obvious doom that is approaching for this stupid moron.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      It was never supposed to get this far. George fearing a sure conviction or lynching “like a negro in the street”(had to use tracys comment conversely eventually)….knowing deep down in his heart of hearts he is a racist as they accused him of being, and knowing deep down he “saw an innocent black child” and “went into a racist rage” and decided he would “keep this asshole” from “getting away” no matter what…..the martins and crump in their own racism decided george must be all these things by virtue of being white…so they in their own minds knew “hes a racist, he knows he is, he will cop a plea and well be rich”….the only problem is…none of it was true. it was all a figment of their own racist imaginations built on feeling like whites are always victimizing blacks…and now heres there chance to strike back.

      and you know thats what they thought, because they knew days later “it was a racial killing” and “he didnt do anything to that man” and chad already learned from it “not to be racist”. before the cops even had it figured out, the martins knew. they just knew. because george is white and the cops are white. they just knew.

    • art tart says:

      As far as Sybrina/Tracy having to pay 4 lawyer’s if GZ is acquitted and they can’t sue in a Civil Suit, MOST Attorney’s take Civil Suit cases on a “contingency,” that is, the attorney only gets paid if the client gets paid from a judgment, in this case, Twin Lakes and possibly GZ. The fees for most Civil Attorney’s range from 30-40% plus expenses for representation. Sybrina/Tracy will be out nothing and stand to gain if they get a Judgement.

      In my sister’s negligent death, we paid a contingency of 40 % PLUS ALL expenses, that’s expert’s, filings, etc. We won but the attorney’s got about 50 % of the Judgement against the Dr.’s insurance company.

  34. sundance says:

    I need the following Treepers to send an email to the Treehouse:

    Chip Bennett

    ……for now, maybe more later. It’s nothing bad…. it’s just a little needed questionairre.

    Please put your username in the subject line too. Thanks.

  35. brutalhonesty says:

    wow, april 8th and the had all the talking points, even “the police handled it wrongly” in the lyrics.

  36. arkansasmimi says:

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr 3 hrs ago
    The next #GeorgeZimmerman hearing is tomorrow FEB 22, the defendant has waived his appearance… Details at: http://gzlegalcase.com

  37. brutalhonesty says:

    this person posted on jftm under the banner for their next get together:
    Red Eye Ill be performing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP7j2g_XcQs
    5 hours ago · Like

    Mathew Luckylowkey Higgins I’m sure Trayvon’s parents would be thrilled to hear you rewrite him as a murderer. Some people shouldn’t try to help. *facepalm*
    5 hours ago · Edited · Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      lyrics:time to put my good on, i got my hood on, Im a dead breed but you can call me trayvon, I put the skittles and the ice tea down, picked up the bullets and loaded up (sounds like traytown), they thought I died, but im livin it, lets get it lifer where da fuck is zimmerman, I heard they wanted to let his ass free I hope he doin life cuz I got the penalty, run up on him after court like hey remember me, pop him in front of camera so the whole world can see, ITS THE MEDIA THAT BROUGHT ME BACK TO LIFE YA SEE, ya mutha fuckas just wont let me be, they compared me to the hottest topic since KONY, posted pics from kids that dont even know me, let me rest in peace, my story’s been told, I hope this song, dont make the radio. (hook Im a dead breed repeated and chopped and screwed)…

      theres more but im tired of transposing.

  38. Lou says:

    Crump’s lawyer admits there isn’t a case without DD.

  39. maggiemoowho says:

    Miami Dade passed a special resolution to allow co-works to donate their vacation time to SF and her SISTER. So if Miami Dade can do this, then why can’t Ocala do it for a man with Cancer. Really screwed up system.

  40. ottawa925 says:

    Can someone help to explain this to me … what is going on exactly and what does it mean? It’s not sinking in for me (what a surprise huh).

    Sgt. Santiago Dep of 10/1/12.

    It would begin on page 36 of the PDF,

    line 11, page 74 of the transcript to line 20, page 75 of the transcript.


  41. diwataman says:

    Ugh. I tried reading it, I really did but I just can’t, I couldn’t get past this paragraph. Who is the idiot writing this:

    “The Zimmerman Case has become a flashpoint in the conversation about racial injustice. While we contest that any racial motivation played a role in the Zimmerman Case, we are compelled to use the notoriety of this case to begin a realistic, honest conversation about racial injustice. But here is a warning: to focus so intently on George Zimmerman, and to equate a civil rights victory to a Zimmerman conviction cheapens the conversation and threatens to drive us further apart. If the Zimmerman Case is to be the catalyst for conversation about race, then we owe it to ourselves to have a complete and nuanced understanding of all the factors involved.”

    First of all this case did not “become” a flashpoint in the conversation about racial injustice, it was grafted and forced onto it first by the original schemers; Tracy Martin, Sybrina Fulton, Benjamin Crump, Ryan Julison, etc. then pimped by all the media and championed as truth by the willing mass of idiots. And let’s try to remind ourselves, for the time being at least, and act as though this was not sort of anomaly, shall we? Or should we pretend this is some sort of mystery narrative that popped out of a vacuum only for George Zimmerman? Okay O’Mara?

    Secondly, why are “they”, whoever “they” are, compelled to use the notoriety of this case to begin a realistic, honest conversation about racial injustice? I’m quite sure O’Mara’s primary job is the defense of George Zimmerman against the criminal charge of murder in the second degree by the State of Florida.

    And what is this “we need to have an honest conversation” crap I always hear. You really think the likes of Crump et al., the entire Black Grievance Industry, all of academia who make careers off the same black victim-hood narrative etc. want to have an “honest” conversation about race? You think the populace wants to give up it’s convenient excuse for everything wrong in the world? How absolutely naive. The only conversation about race they want is “black is victim” and “white is perpetrator”. GET IT? Any deviation of that and you are a traitor. CAN YOU GRASP THAT O’MARA?

    So to go on and cry about how “we” will be driven apart because the racial narrative has been “misapplied” in your view and cheapens the conversation just demonstrates your absolute ignorance on the matter. The narrative has always been the same, the “conversation” has always been the same, YOU just happen to NOW be experiencing the reality. YOU are cheapening the conversation. YOU are not toeing the line O’Mara and are betraying your brethren. YOU are a traitor. The sooner you accept that the better.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Well said Dman.

      I totally agree…… it is not “WE” who need to change, appease, whatever.

      I only considered race in the details of this case specifically for a short while….I was fed that by early media reports. It’s not there in the events of 26th Feb, so I got past that.

      It is only there since, in the form of the ongoing SCHEME and political machinations.. and of course, the rabid hate crowd posting at know forums and on Twitter

      The Scheme team members were using it way before the GZ case and, (unless they are imprisoned), will be still doing it after this case has gone away… so too all the other Grievance players. It has NOTHING to do with the GZ case. It existed before and will be ongoing whatever the result of the GZ case.

      The only interest that I (and I think many at CTH) have in the race grievance thing.. is as a WIDER issue… imposed by others on the GZ case.. as it is imposed elsewhere as well.

      • diwataman says:

        Thanks, now if I could only go back and fix some slight errors, lol, sometimes I’m just too hasty with the “Post Comment” button.

      • boricuafudd says:

        I have in the past been very critical of MOM for a variety of reasons, mainly his lack of conviction to the case in the early stages. Nowadays, while MOM is showing more conviction in the case, every now then something happens and it reminds me of my earlier hesitations and critique of MOM.

        This response to the editorials is a perfect example. Once again, MOM are trying to balance the defense of GZ and try to make some sort of civil rights statement of appeasement to the BGI and in doing so, he is failing at both. Earlier on during one his earlier TV appearances in response about the racial undertones of this case MOM declared that most of his clients were black.

        Such a dumb response is a simile to people who say I’m not a racist, I have black friends. That layins the problem in a nutshell, MOM is concerned with alienating the AA community, and come out looking as a racist. After all he is a White Democrat, and supports all the right causes, thinks the SYG law is ridiculous and most of his clients are Black.

        We all know that this case is not about the tragic events of 2-26 anymore, right now the struggle is whether the BGI can assert enough pressure to get a man arrested and charged (it can) but also whether they can now exert enough pressure to get that man convicted on the evidence of an ear witness, who may or may be who she says she is.

        Safeguards that are supposed to guard against this have been bypassed, pressure from the highest level has been exerted on this. The BGI has proven that it can win cases like this in Civil Court, now they are trying to the same in Criminal Court, where the higher burden of proof had become a detriment. To me this is a test case for the BGI, if they can control the narrative, force the political pawns to move as they will and circumvent the courts to not only arrest, charge and convict innocent people at will. well let us hope that none of us become a target of one of their lynchings.

        MOM and other Progs like him that are lambs to the BGI and make excuses for their excesses, need to remember that the wolf they are protecting will get hungry, and they love lamb.

    • recoverydotgod says:

      uh-huh. What D-man said!

      O’Mara should be preaching to the Florida Bar…and the CFACDL… and Daryl Park’s NBA about acting like professionals. Disgraceful.

      I hope Don West is getting some well deserved rest tonight.

      • diwataman says:

        Thank you but I have to disagree, it would be just as much of a waste of time for O’Mara to say anything to those groups, Crump is beloved by the Florida Bar. I don’t know about the CFACDL, I’m sure it’s filled with all the same like minded individuals.

      • justfactsplz says:

        I hope so too and I hope he lets them have it no holds barred.

    • sundance says:

      + a bazillion for D-Man.

      Yup. It is profoundly ironic to see the BGI turn on PC O’Mara…. and PC O’Mara defending himself against them….. after all, everything he does is incredibly PC to insure he does not hurt the delicate BGI sensibilities…..

      How dare you man. How dare you. :D :D (((adjust pinky ring))) Just for that I’m going to let Crump off the deposition hook…. So THERE !

      George is so sunk with this guy. :(

    • sundance says:

      Short version. Wake up, they’re just not that into you.

    • woohoowee says:

      Hear, hear! Very well stated.

    • justfactsplz says:


    • cassandra says:


  42. waltherppk says:

    In my opinion what “cheapens the narrative” the most is the absence of the complete forensics report on all the phones involved in the case, and the lack of a Richardson hearing to address how defense preparation has been hindered and procedurally prejudiced particularly with regard to the scheduling of an Immunity Hearing or a later trial …..when those dates have not been set as contingent upon completion of discovery a reasonable time in advance of those proceedings.
    It also seems entirely presumptuous and prejudicial to set a trial date at all until an Immunity Hearing has already been held and there was a ruling that Immunity is denied, since in the event Immunity is granted there will be no trial. Setting a trial date before an Immunity hearing has produced a disposition for trial is like saying it is a foregone conclusion that Immunity will be denied but as a mere formality an Immunity hearing will be held and immunity denied as is planned to make a trial necessary. The judicial prejudice exposed there is so substantial it could be quarried like blocks of stone.

  43. brutalhonesty says:

    if I was west or omara: your honor
    direct tm based threats on gz based on the false narrative, posted on jftm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP7j2g_XcQs still there, poster claims to be performing at the death anniversary event promoted right now
    lyrics:time to put my good on, i got my hood on, Im a dead breed but you can call me trayvon, I put the skittles and the ice tea down, picked up the bullets and loaded up (sounds like traytown), they thought I died, but im livin it, lets get it lifer where da fuck is zimmerman, I heard they wanted to let his ass free I hope he doin life cuz I got the penalty, run up on him after court like hey remember me, pop him in front of camera so the whole world can see, ITS THE MEDIA THAT BROUGHT ME BACK TO LIFE YA SEE, ya mutha fuckas just wont let me be, they compared me to the hottest topic since KONY, posted pics from kids that dont even know me, let me rest in peace, my story’s been told, I hope this song, dont make the radio. (hook Im a dead breed repeated and chopped and screwed)…

    theres more but im tired of transposing.

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