The Scheme Team Outline

The Scheme Team


On Sunday March 18th 2012 The Scheme Team reports Tracy Martin *found* a person who talked to Trayvon Martin just prior to his death.  (on line phone records)

Trayvon Martin T-Mobile screen shot ABC news

On Monday March 19th 2012 The Scheme Team together with ABC’s Matt Gutman set up, and recorded, an audio call with the person Tracy Martin found. A girl, Witness #8, they called her “Dee Dee”.

On Tuesday March 20th 2012 The Scheme Team, Primarily Benjamin Crump, introduced Witness #8 to the media. Calling her his girlfriend, she talked to Trayvon for 400 minutes on the day of his death Sunday February 26th, she talked to Trayvon just minutes before he was shot, and she was talking to Trayvon when he encountered George Zimmerman.

Crump, consistently called her “a minor”

ABC’s Matt Gutman described her as a 16-year-old girlfriend.

On Wednesday March 21st 2012 The Scheme Team, Primarily Benjamin Crump, went on NBC’s Today Show and discussed Witness #8, Dee Dee, the 16-year-old teenager.

On March 27th the 16-year-old witness, was refusing to give any statement to Sanford, or FDLE law enforcement. Benjamin Crump stated she would only talk to the FBI and her parents were concerned about her identity.

On Monday April 2nd an 18-year-old, young woman, showed up to give a sworn statement to the prosecution.

April 2 - BDLR interview DeeDee

The Scheme Team has refused to give the name, or address of the 16-year-old person they interviewed on March 19th.

The prosecution, the State, and the Scheme Team, refuse to give witness #8 address, or identifiable information to the Defense team for the 18-year-old they interviewed on April 2nd.

So the defense moved to compel discovery.


Now the Scheme Team has lawyered up and says on March 19th they never asked her, their witness, for her full name or address before taking her statement.

Crump Scheme 1.1

The Scheme Team didn’t ask the name or address of their witness, (they claim) but they did ask her parents for permission to talk to her, and they, along with ABC News did know and report she was 16-years-old.

And, yet, family attorney Benjamin Crump never talked to her again.

Crump Scheme 1.4

So who was on the phone for the mystery March 19th interview (Dee Dee) ?

And who was the other older person who showed up on April 2nd to talk to the State?

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514 Responses to The Scheme Team Outline

  1. jordan2222 says:

    Why did he ask her if she had an attorney? How would she know at that time, that she might need one?

    • John Galt says:

      A witnesses can be coached, shielded by attorney client privilege, if two lawyers are involved, where at least one of the lawyers is unethical. Supposedly DD had a lawyer at some point, but the name of the lawyer has not been published, AFAIK.

      Q: Did you discuss your testimony with anyone?
      W: Yes.
      Q: With whom?
      W: My lawyer.
      Q: And what, specifically did you discuss with your lawyer?
      Lawyer: Objection, calls for a communication protected by the A/C privilege.

  2. jordan2222 says:

    Sundance: Do you think all of this will come out and that all of the players in the scheme will be exposed? Just an opinion, please, because I am concerned that these criminals might all get away.

    • sundance says:

      Short answer NO. It will not all come out.

      Judge Nelson receives briefings from the DOJ-CRS about potential impact from consequential rulings. She defers to them and their opinion. That’s why y’all are picking up a sense of “her mind is already made up” when she listens to oral arguments about motions before the court. (she is pre-briefed)

      She does not deliberate. She follows directions well.

      Also, my initial research into O’Mara stands factually unchallenged, and subsequently my opinion is unchanged.

      GZ has one hope. Don West.

      That’s it.

      Then there’s the media.

      Stop, pause, think.

      There has already been enough, waaaaay more than enough, to peak the curiosity of any reasonable research-minded, or investigative journalist. Seriously. Just look at this post alone…. this stuff ain’t hard to see. Yet ((((crickets))))


      More DOJ-CRS stuff….. and teh One just got another 4 years.

      If Romney had won the election, Zimmerman would have been home for Christmas.


      • Lynn says:

        He’s right. This is way beyond what they discuss and deliberate at the local bar meeting each month. I believe more cases have been settled over a scotch and soda than you can imagine. It won’t happen here.

        • Joke & Dagger says:

          I will say it again. All involved attorneys get off Scott-free. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Anyone thinking otherwise has not been paying attention the last 4 years. There are no longer consequences.

      • recoverydotgod says:

        I agree. Don West…and media….it’s got to be a group of journalists/media types that gets behind a banner of truth wrapped in packaging….like…sweet sixteen…march madness.

        For example:

        March madness made Dee Dee sweet sixteen….but she was turned into eighteen.

        Now explain to me why that is so complicated, Daryl Parks?

      • justfactsplz says:

        It is true. It would have been over for George if the election had been different. I used to take a lot of criticism and ridicule at Click for saying this case was being run from the most top level of our government, all the way to the president. They told me over and over there was no conspiracy. I knew better. They have even tried to get people to lie and say George is a racist. I hear you about Omara.

      • John McLachlan says:

        Unless W8 was in contact with the phone found at the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death, then W8’s testimony must be regarded as perjury and her affidavit as being false.
        Since her apparently false testimony supplied the only evidence to contradict the claim of self-defence made by George Zimmerman, without her testimony, the state would have been unable to claim a probable cause for the arrest and prosecution of George Zimmerman.
        If W8 is ever tried for perjury or supplying a false affidavit, then it should be impossible for her to escape criminal conviction.
        Can perjurers be imprisoned?
        Also, George Zimmerman has incurred substantial financial burden and restrictions upon his freedom as well as damage to his reputation, resulting in the endangerment of his life and the lives of his family, as a direct result of W8’s false testimony.
        Are false witnesses liable for civil damages?
        If W8 is proven in court to be a false witness and is offered a choice of suffering the just consequences, herself, or offered immunity, in exchange for the truth about how she was introduced as a witness, by whom and whether any of her false statements were solicited by any third party, what would her likely response be?
        I believe W8 could do serious harm to the Martin family legal team, who in turn may be inclined to implicate others. Others, who in the broader sense are much more dangerous to civil society.
        A lot of important people probably hope that W8 (either of them) makes no further statements to anyone about anything and would feel immensely relieved if W8 just disappeared.

        • Sharon says:

          Frankly, I’ve wondered if W8 has not perhaps already been removed–far, far from the scene–not for her safety, but to reduce potential risk to those who have used her and never thought the case would survive this long.

        • jello333 says:

          The Defense wants to keep collecting info on the whole Dee Dee scheme. It’s the Prosecution who wants everyone to just forget about her. YES. That is exactly what I’ve been saying for months now. Others have said it too.

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        I wish you were wrong, but it is plainly clear that you are not. The simple fact that not one piece of sincere investigate reporting has appeared in any news broadcast or newspaper says volumes. The *higher ups* in the news organizations have fallen into line with the CRS mandates and are goosestepping right in line with them by repressing any journalist or reporter who even tries to take an objective look at the facts, let alone actually report them. This would be a bombshell story to report and would generate ratings that would be unbelievable, so you have to KNOW that money is not their concern, or at least not money that would be generated by any business model that you would normally expect a news organization to operate under.

        As for the Scheme Team, there will be no blockbuster reports about what they have done, for the very reasons mentioned above. Even if DeeDee were to break down on the stand and admit that she was a part of a plot to wrongly convict George Zimmerman with falsified testimony, she would be quickly dismissed as a distraught teenager, or discredited in some similar fashion. I would almost expect for any live feed from the courtroom to mysteriously suffer *technical difficulties* during such an episode. In any event, there would be a buffer between her and Ben Crump, a fall-guy already in place as a fail-safe device. The ONLY way to break that little group of liars would be for one of the insiders to turn on the others, and that will never happen. This is NOT a one time thing for them, so they have too much at stake to kill off their little money making enterprise.

        And, Judge Nelson will NOT issue any favorable ruling at the immunity hearing. Sending this case to a jury has been the single goal of the “team” since day one and, though she may not be a part of “team” itself, she will (as you say) follow the marching orders handed down by the DOJ and CRS. After that, the “team” will get the payoff that they have extorted from the system with the help of Rev Al, Eric Holder, and the POTUS himself.

        • justfactsplz says:

          Yes they can and yes they will. There is no stopping them. The American justice that we loved in the past does not exist today. What is so sad is that there is no one with the courage in the media to stand up to them and tell the truth.

      • jordan2222 says:

        SD. How do actually know this? I believe you but proof would be great.

        Judge Nelson receives briefings from the DOJ-CRS about potential impact from consequential rulings.

      • hooson1st says:


        Many, if not most judges, who have received briefs on a motion to be heard have a good idea of how they are going to rule just from having read the briefs. It seems that Judge Nelson falls in this category.

        Could you elaborate on the following

        “Judge Nelson receives briefings from the DOJ-CRS
        about potential impact from consequential rulings. She
        defers to them and their opinion. ”

        This, it would seem, is an illegal ex-parte contact(s).

        • John Galt says:

          “Many, if not most judges, who have received briefs on a motion to be heard have a good idea of how they are going to rule just from having read the briefs.”

          Very true. Motions, particularly complicated motions for a protective order based on things like private attorney general status, attorney client privilege and attorney work product doctrine, are usually made in writing and filed with a detailed memorandum of supporting facts and case law. In fact, most judges will not permit any attorney, much less an attorney previously unassociated with a case, to waltz into court during a hearing scheduled for other matters and, without having filed a single scrap of paper, make an oral motion. Nelson not only permitted this, but in fact interrupted Blackwell’s presentation by expressing an intention to grant the motion to restrict the scope of Crump’s deposition, before Blackwell could even mention the affidavit, and without affording the defense an opportunity to be heard.

          Something’s afoot.

          • woohoowee says:

            “Something’s afoot.”

            No doubt. Why didn’t Governor Scott do the right thing at the beginning? Shouldn’t he have told Holdup/Obama that the investigation was ongoing and no State charges would be filed until the investigation was complete, and that no State charges would be forthcoming unless the completed investigation proved George committed a crime?

          • canadacan says:

            John Galt or chip Bennett how do you appeal something like that has just been mentioned by mister Galt. something is rotten in Denmark more so than usual. Judge Nelson is getting her orders directly from the Oval Office. And Eric Holder. this reeks of judgement at Nuremberg. this corrupted ministration has a gun agenda there for nothing will suffice what do have a full blown trial for Zimmerman on a trumped up charge with 0 substantiation.

            • hooson1st says:

              I doubt that Nelson is getting orders from anyone. The Oval office has no reason to be involved.

              We don’t know if we will get to trial. They won’t be able to get to trial without substantiation.

              • Sharon says:

                “The Oval office has no reason to be involved. ”

                You have got to be kidding. They had no reason to get involved with the arrest of his professor buddy either and a hundred other crises which simply served to advance progressivist ideals. You’re either remarkably naive or deliberately obtuse.

                • sundance says:

                  “willfully obtuse”….. perhaps with an agenda.

                  • Sharon says:


                  • hooson1st says:

                    Geeze, Sundance:

                    I came to this website and was amazed by the amount of digging, fact-checking and cross-checking that you and CTH community had done on this case. The case for GZ that has been put together here mirrored my thoughts as to the lack of evidence justifying and murder rap on GZ.

                    The way you set up the topics of discussion, especially in this case, by using snips of quotes, video, documents etc. is very effective. The topics you focus on are deserving of robust debate and discussion.

                    There is no doubt that I take a different view on how the government, the justice system, and the media, operate.

                    I may be wrong as to my views, which in part, are a product of my own experiences. But I have shared my sincere opinions on this case and on the resultant commentary.

                    I am pretty sure that I have not cast any aspersions as to anyone’s character commenting here, nor expressed doubts as to their motivations, I haven’t labeled anyone obtuse with whom I may have differed.

                    And if I have offended anyone, it was not intentional.

                    I have endeavored to present my opinions in a positive context.

                    I think that GZ embroiled in a tragedy in which extraneous political factors have altered the normal course of a police inquiry.

                    The efforts of all the Treepers in seeking to resolve the inconsistencies and impossibilities in the prosecution’s case has had a very positive effect in helping GZ’s case.

                    That’s my agenda, I guess.

                  • jello333 says:

                    For what it’s worth, I’ve never doubted you’re giving your honest opinion on things. As you know, I think you’re WRONG about a lot of things, and I think you’re even a bit naive about some things… especially the honesty and motives of some lawyers and others in the “system”. Sometimes giving them too much benefit of the doubt. But as far as your sincerity in what you’re saying?… no, I never had an issue with that.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Doncha think all of us are sincere in what we say?

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, all except for me and you… don’t tell anyone! ;) ;)

                    Seriously though, yeah of course I do, otherwise we wouldn’t all be here doing what we’re doing. I just wanted to let Hooson know that even though I disagree with him a LOT, I think he really believes what he’s saying.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    What would do without this site? Think about that and our ability to freely exchange ideas. This truly is our last refuge.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Sundance, you got mail.

          • hooson1st says:

            I still haven’t figured out Judge Nelson’s modus.

            It may be that Sundance is totally on target on this. Sundance’s lead-in this morning was brilliant.

            Judge Nelson could have allowed some further discussion back and forth and then make the same ruling. The entire handling of the Blackwell intrusion raises questions, but her actions were not particularly questionable.

            She left open for MOM to act further on a deposition of Crump after considering the affidavit.

            To my mind, this works to MOM’s favor.


            If Crump is lying, then this affidavit further narrows the circle around his subterfuge.

            It would seem from the CTH sleuthing done to date, that Crump has left “material” detail out of this statement – if we are to reconcile the question of different DeeDee’s etc, and the points brought out by Sundance earlier today.

        • sundance says:

          Would this be an illegal ex-parte contact?

          No, the DOJ-CRS is specifically exempt from any rules of interrogatories surrounding the justice system. Quite the opposite, it is a violation of “federal law” for the judge to discuss her contact with the DOJ-CRS even to the defense.

          The DOJ-CRS was set up to be able to “influence” both the judical system, the law enforcement system, and the public service systems within all municipalties.

          Essentially it is a specifically framed covert “civil rights” organization with infinite power over anything attached to the Judicial system. There are 3 members of the DOJ-CRS present in each hearing….. they travel to Washington DC, brief – discuss – plan – strategize – then return. They have been focused primarily on Miami-Dade and Orlando/Sanford.

          The coordinate “all” agency attendance at “events” they find potentially impactful. Example: They will tell the police where to go for security at events, they will “stage” emergency response units in various locations…. etc etc.

          AND… it is a federal crime to point out their activity, up to and including who any member of the DOJ-CRS is. (unfortunately, the conversation must stop there, as advancement would be potentially troublesome)

          Suffice to say, they can and do, tell Judiciaries what to do. And other parties are barred from knowing their influence.

          • woohoowee says:

            OMG!!! Is this ripe for a USSC challenge? MOM isn’t the one to do it, IMHO. this does shed light on some things. Good grief! How many Americans even know how things really work?

            Could this be why Governor Scott just rolled over? Maybe he is of like mind with the
            status quo?

            Sorry for the rant and questions. It’s just mind boggling.

            • Sharon says:

              Light illuminates. 8O

              • woohoowee says:

                “Light illuminates.”

                Indeed it does. Words fail me now. Sometimes the light shines so brightly that one just decides to go to bed, but alas, no respite in sleep which doesn’t come….because the questions won’t recede.

                WHY did Americans pervert the U.S. Constitution, the GREATEST DOCUMENT OF LIBERTY the world has ever known, into something reminiscent of The Communist Manifesto?! Why?

                More history study, in depth study, in my near future. There, perhaps, will be the answers as to why Western Civ and concise U.S. History is no longer offered in public

                • Sharon says:

                  Unfortunately, there are some simple reasons why they have distorted and destroyed our foundations.

                  They wanted to. Why did they want to? Because, as obama has pointed out, he has considered our Constitution to be a fundamentally flawed document that prevents the government from asserting massive power….and those like him (going back to the 19th century at least) always want more power.

                  It is as bad as we think it is. And the effort to get our minds around what is happening in front of our eyes is pretty daunting. I’m with you–up to my ears in history at the moment. Hillsdale College’s Constitution Reader, all things Woodrow Wilson, Bonhoeffer, Team of Rivals (Lincoln); The Other Lincoln (guess what? He liked centralized government….); They Thought They Were Free (about German citizens who calmly kept “working through” the business of living with the Nazis…and never realized they had become prisoners of the Nazis…they got used to it)….

                  We can’t do it all at once, but by reading and thinking and trying to understand, we will be better equipped to be the go-to person for our family and friends who are interested in understanding.

      • Alexandra M. says:

        I’m maintaining steadfast hope in Mr. West.
        GO WEST GO!
        (~and darn those pinky rings, O’Mara……rid yourself of those and grow a pair like your co-counsel).

      • ottawa925 says:

        Sundance, other than West for the trial, aren’t all the issues for Appeal GZ’s BEST hope? or do you think the fix is in there as well?

        • sundance says:

          I doubt there will be any appeal, because there will not be a conviction.

          However, that is really not the issue. Nor the goal….. The goal is just getting to trial and unlocking the door for civil liability (ie. wrongful death suits)

          That is their goal. That is their only goal.

          It appears, the judiciary is in line with the BGI and DOJ-CRS in the belief that a win/win is to take GZ to trial, allow him to be innocent (not guilty) which he is, and at the same time allow the Scheme Team to gain financial benefit from civil suits.

          Zimmerman gets what he wants and is free, and the Martin Family et al get what they want $$$.

          The BGI gets what they want $$, and another notch in their belt of influence; and the State gets what they want in NO-RIOTS or burning cities in the news…. and the BGI back in the box, well, til next time.

          The “system” per se’ is only used to the extent they are following a pre-determined objective. Lester/Nelson have a role to play, as does O’Mara/Nejame, as does Corey/BDLR/Bondi/Scott, as does the media.

          Each of these parties stands to gain benefit, financial benefit, from the objective.

          The only losers are the insurers, the taxpayers, and Zimmerman (albeit temporarily). None of these peeps are viewed as an actual person except GZ – and he is viewed as having created the mess, so pfffffftt on him….. his temporary loss of freedom is considered his pennance.

          • Flaladybug says:

            SD……..I agree on that assessment completely however I do have a question. As of now, we know GZ basically has nothing of monetary value to be gained from civil suits….as a Florida resident it will infuriate me to no end to see another dime go the BGI just to shut them up!! However, as in the Martin Lee Anderson case, I think the same outcome will unfortunately be gained here and by the same players to boot!! My question is, if George is not found immune to civil cases and does win his NBC lawsuit, will that money be a target from Crump and Co. or can it be protected from the money whores???

            • sundance says:

              Interesting question. Perhaps KathyCA can weigh in more astutely.

              My hunch would be the Scheme Team will seek compensatory damages against a variety of parties affiliated with the event, including GZ; And yes, they will attach future earnings as an aspect of civil award.

              So yes, if GZ loses the immunity hearing, goes to trial, is found not guilty, then sues and wins a compensatory case against NBC etc., the Scheme Team will take that money as part of a previous financial ruling.

              • jordan2222 says:


                Hard for me to imagine that a man can be sued after being found innocent at a trial. I am not getting that at all. Are you sure of that?

                On what grounds could he be liable for anything?

                I would think that George is the one who would be seeking damages.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Yes, I forgot. .

                  • jello333 says:

                    If you’ve already read my other comments on this, you’re gonna hate me for repeating. ;) But the difference with OJ and most other “wrongful death” suits after acquittal, is that those trials were CLOSE ones… or in OJ’s case not so close, but went contrary to how everyone expected. But I don’t see George’s being even remotely close. And that, I think, is a big difference.

                • rumpole2 says:

                  As SD says… in case of OJ… he was found not guilty of murder… the standard being “Beyond Reasonable Doubt” (for that jury)
                  In the Goldman’s “Wrongful Death” suit the standard was by “Predominance of the evidence” (51%) only.. and OJ was found liable.

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    Preponderance? one of those type words :D

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I am not thinking tonight. I got it but it would be hard to get any money from a man with no money. Why would they even bother unless he gets some money from any lawsuits he files? How likely is that?

                • HughStone says:

                  GZ should adopt someone then sign over all future earnings, like that Goodman guy.

              • jello333 says:

                Don’t know if you saw my other comment elsewhere in this little thread. But I basically just don’t see how anyone could win a civil suit against George. At least not if the evidence (at trial*) is gonna be as strongly in his favor as we suspect. To win a civil suit, you have to have at least a slight majority of the evidence on your side. But I suspect the evidence is not even gonna be CLOSE to 50/50. Now, of course, if we’re talking about Crump simply trying a shakedown maneuver, just trying to get lucky by threatening some people with lawsuits…. yeah, I can see that. But an actual suit, where they have to present evidence? Where if you lose YOU can be ordered to pay up? I don’t see it.

                (* Almost forgot my usual disclaimer: This will NOT go to trial. ;) )

                • jello333 says:

                  Ah, I just realized I was referring to Crump in that last one. Better I should have just said “Tracy and Sybrina’s lawyer”, because hopefully that won’t BE Crump by then. Hopefully he’ll be doing other things besides practicing law. ;)

            • jello333 says:

              I don’t see how ANYONE could win a civil suit against George (and anyone associated with him) after he’s exonerated. I don’t even see anyone FILING suit, for fear of losing and having to pay damages themselves. The reason I say that, is this: Pretty much every other “wrongful death” suit I’ve heard of, I mean ones that were filed after a not-guilty criminal trial verdict, was a CLOSE CALL at trial. It was like, “Well, this guy very well could be guilty, but I’ve got a little bit of reasonable doubt, so I gotta let him go.” And then in the civil suit, since the threshold is only “preponderance”, it’s not that hard to win against the guy.

              Alright, I do NOT believe this will go to trial, but just for the sake of argument:

              In George’s case, is the amount and quality of evidence for and against guilt gonna be close? Is the jury gonna say, “Well I think he’s probably guilty, it’s close. But I have a little bit of doubt, so…” Does anyone think that, once all the evidence has been presented, it’s gonna be a CLOSE CALL? I don’t think so… not at all. And if not, then what are the idiots gonna have to work with if they try to file civil suits?

              • rumpole2 says:

                IF this gets as far as a wrongful death suit then I am afraid “preponderance of the evidence” is not a hard standard to meet. Presumably the Scheme Team will be involved… and they have shown ability to sew seeds in simple jurors minds.

              • boricuafudd says:

                Tell that to OJ, think of the similarities, racially charged, threat of riots, etc.

              • justfactsplz says:

                George needs to win immunity. These money grubbers should not make one thin dime off of him. He deserves to be financially compensated not taken to the cleaners by the scheme team. Allowing this to play out like Sundance outlines only allows them to turn around and do it on the next case. And over and over. It is a Just A System not a Justice system.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  The tragedy is that you and I cannot do a damn thing about it. We are watching our government orchestrate an incredible injustice, abusing not only George, but all of the taxpayers here.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Add to that all of the other things our government is orchestrating right under our noses. Cover ups much? Just look at Benghazi to name only one.

          • janc1955 says:

            Apparently the jurors, should they acquit GZ, are also expendable.

          • woohoowee says:

            Please disregard my last post. Should have read this one before typing. You’ve answered my questions.

  3. justfactsplz says:

    I think DeeDee 1 is the person whose twitter Omara talked about in the previous hearing. I think reference was made about that being the wrong Dee Dee insenuating she had been harrassed and was the wrong one, to point Omara to the 18 year old DeeDee so he would think he had the wrong one. Am I making any sense? However, there is all of these news conferences where Crump told she was a minor. There is no getting out of the fact there are two DeeDee’s. Sorry Crump, you’re so busted.

    • John Galt says:

      Will Twitter and Facebook subpoenas provide information on what phone number(s) were used to make posts at various different times?

      What if Twitter and Facebook accounts were deleted? Does Twitter and Facebook retain information after account deletion?

      • boricuafudd says:

        Based on a previous case I read about, they do but the amount of time varies based on need. I will provide the citation as soon as I find it.

      • justfactsplz says:

        I don’t know that much about Facebook and Twitter, I don’t do them. I do know that Trayvon’s social network was copied before it was taken down.

  4. Lynn says:

    Know what folks? This case just scares the living daylights out of me. The lies. Oh, good heavens, the LIES! My husband I have talked about getting a CWP, but I’m scared. If we, as white adults, were to try to defend ourselves from someone beating the living crap out of us, and we shot them in self defense, would we be going through the same thing as George Zimmerman? I’m so sorry, George, Shellie and family. You don’t deserve this, but you’re standing up for so many people who, in the future, may have to endure something like this. Thank you.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      “My husband I have talked about getting a CWP, but I’m scared. If we, as white adults, were to try to defend ourselves from someone beating the living crap out of us, and we shot them in self defense, would we be going through the same thing as George Zimmerman?”

      Congratulations! You have become another victim of the intimidation tactics being used to discourage honest citizens from exercising their constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms! Since Florida is a “Shall Issue” state, the nazi’s in the law enforcement community cannot prevent you from receiving a CWP, so they are using cases like this to frighten you out of even applying for one. DON’T LET THEM DO THIS TO YOU!

      • Lynn says:

        Trust me, I won’t! And we won’t! Yes, I admitted I’m scared, but I’m done with this crap, I really am. DH and I went to the flea market this past weekend. We went into a gun store and it was, without a doubt, the busiest store within the flea market. We’re all just tired of it. I won’t let them get to us, I promise.

      • Sharon says:

        Just a reminder that folks probably don’t want be announcing either here or on any social media what their personal security plans are. Anything put on the internet stays there forever….a couple of weeks ago, some of our regulars who are far more knowledgeable than I am recommended that personal plans along these lines probably shouldn’t be shared on public sites, which this is.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      My husband I have talked about getting a CWP, but I’m scared. If we, as white adults, were to try to defend ourselves from someone beating the living crap out of us, and we shot them in self defense, would we be going through the same thing as George Zimmerman?

      Better to be judged by 12 (or 6, if you live in Floriduh), than to be carried by 6.

  5. BertDilbert says:

    Wait, Crump said he only talked to her once but there states he talked to her twice. Unless of course “reaching out” by phone does not count.

  6. gannasview says:

    I have always been told that if you give someone enough rope, they will hang themselves. Crump is not only hanging himself, but all those involved in this crazy scheme. I also firmly believe the Scheme Team never thought this would go this far. They were counting on George to plea. They were too busy acting like rabid dogs chasing down the money to worry about the truth being exposed!

  7. hoonan says:

    Just saying…but if all what the “Scheme Team” has said was 100% factual…Benjamin Crump is still THE WORST lawyer the Martin Family could have picked to represent them. If at times you can even understand what the dude is saying…how do people sit there, watch him speak and explain whatever…take this guy seriously as a lawyer?

  8. Lynn says:

    For most of us that are realists in Tallahassee, he’s a joke. But Tallahassee is becoming one of the most liberal towns in America because of the government. The public in Tallahassee has no say anymore ( the conservatives are outnumbered) and Tallahassee is now one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in America. Do we see a pattern here?

    • justfactsplz says:

      My daughter and her family live there. They are conservatives and professionals. They keep telling me how safe Tallahassee is. I am not happy to hear this but not surprised.

      • dmoseylou says:

        “Safer than 4% of the cities in the US.”
        Crime rates for Tallahassee, FL

      • Flaladybug says:

        If it makes you feel better JFP, I live near and work in Tally and most of the crime areas are in specific areas….such as the area around FAMU. Not to say that there are sporadic crimes throughout the city, but for the most part the most dangerous areas are easily known and somewhat contained to certain neighborhoods. I’m sure your family is aware and cautious of these areas. Lynn is correct though that the lawyers and judges I know look at Crump and nothing more than affirmative action on steroids!! I can’t believe that FSU gave them a law degree……uugghhh!!!

  9. eastern2western says:

    witness 8 is lennia kekua.

  10. jordan2222 says:

    Exactly what has to happen at a trial for George to be immune to civil suits aside from being found innocent? Could he be found immune at a trial?

  11. lovemygirl says:

    Nasty Jackson “protected” her twitter after I “tweeted” her. ;)

    • Sha says:

      lovemygirl: Stay away from her or you might catch something nasty….. EWWW ! :D :D :D

    • arkansasmimi says:

      LOL dont feel bad :) Loopy 003Laura Wilcox did me too and so did Chump. LOL Guess they dont like what being asked. Yet, still leave their stuff out in the open :)

  12. Lou says:

    MOM needs to enter that video of Crump claiming she was a minor into evidence.

    • John Galt says:

      That is one reason Crump does not want to be deposed. He has told numerous lies in the media, all of which could be force fed to him in a normal deposition and then potentially used in four different ways: in the criminal case against Z, in a civil case, in disciplinary proceedings, and even in future criminal proceedings against Scheme Team. Crump’s affidavit was carefully crafted to tiptoe around numerous potential ethical and criminal law pitfalls.

  13. boutis says:

    One of the most fascinating aspects of this case has been use of “social” media. The traditional media, television and print, has been in the business of trying to use social media to incorporate their “news” into the addiction that so many people have with Facebook, twitter, texting, etc to keep their money loosing business plans afloat. Rather than look at their content, what I call the Idiot-ifacation of news, they chose to spread their drivel far and wide by imitating the the self absorbed idiots who think their every move, illiterate passing thought, or primal urge should be memorialized in a text, tweet, facebook status update, recording of videos in various inappropriate moments, or using a cellphone to jabber 400 minutes a day, should be recorded for posterity as if any one cares. It is as if they text and cellphone therefore they exist. It is amazingly pathetic. The fact that they are giving away their privacy is beyond them.

    The Scheme Team and TM left a trail that can be investigated for years. Now they are trying to avoid exposure with stunts. Once it is out there it is there forever. Protecting your phone calls, facebook drivel, love of videoing yourself, appearing on television and tweets NOW is closing the barn door after the horses have already run off. The public communication airways are not private.

    • Sharon says:

      I think you describe the weirdness very well. Apparently they really have thought that these things were just their playground to make use of as they wished–and the thought that those who think clearly about right and wrong, lies vs. truth might be able to make effective use of both the technology and their self-exposure–well, that thought absolutely never occurred to them.

      We are dealing with a nationwide epidemic of people in power, in high places and low, who have no idea what it means to be held accountable at any level. Really interesting to watch.

      • libby says:

        I just like how the internet allows us to hold those in power accountable whereas before they got to lie without detection for so much longer

        • Sharon says:

          I don’t think they really even knew we could speak in complete sentences while running circles around them, we can smell a lie a mile away, use some critical thinking skills in analyzing garbage and while we’re at it, also pay our taxes on time.

          It’s our fault that we ceded the field to them through the 60s, 70s, 80s and part of the 90s. Sunlight makes ‘em crazy. Let it shine!

      • boutis says:

        Absolutely agree. We have a couple of generations that have no concept of cause and effect. If you do this, this will happen, if you do that, that will happen. They see no consequences, good or ill, for anything they do. They are always surprised and usually in a bad way. Think Anthony Weiner but only for a second. No comprehension that what he was doing was wrong, creepy and he would get caught and ruin his life. It reminds me of people who cannot comprehend why they have bad credit and can’t borrow. You don’t pay your bills, you have low a paying job and work half of the time, and you have filed for bankruptcy TWICE therefore you have bad credit and cannot borrow money. You can mitigate ignorant but not stupid.

    • John Galt says:

      “or using a cellphone to jabber 400 minutes a day”

      Jabbering 6 and 2/3 hours. I am very skeptical. I think perhaps T-Mobile to Simple Mobile would be unlimited free, because they are basically the same carrier. But talking or listening to W8 for 6 and 2/3 hours? Is there any other explanation for 400 minutes of connection time between two cell phones? Streaming music or something?

  14. diwataman says:

    I think it may be quite possible that DD is insane. I mean that literally and seriously. It’s the only other thing, aside from her hearing something else that night other than what she said she heard, I can think of as to why she did not contact anyone that night right after the creepy stalker white guy assaulted her friend and would be lover that she’s known since kindergarten. She would have to be a complete and total psychopath.

    How could she not have at least contacted Trayvon’s family that night? She knew where Trayvon was, she knew Trayvon was being stalked by a creepy white man, she thought Trayvon got assaulted by the creepy white man after which she couldn’t get back in contact with Trayvon. Did she just go back to doing her nails and tweeting?

    So any normal human being would have called police and family but we know how it go for the black folk in racist white America so any normal black person would have at least called some friends and it would have at some point that night made it back to Tracy, “yo’ dog, Trayvon right outside Brandy house getting attacked by some creepy white dude.”

    DD said she had guilt and it’s either because she was trying to confess to Bernie at that point for lying or she was doing what psychopaths do and pretending to feel guilt because she did nothing that night. I’m going for the latter. She is insane.

    • boutis says:

      I’ve thought possibly some kind of learning disability. Being treated as a small child, possibly very protective parent, still in school (what grade?) at eighteen being possible clues. And her testimony being the first clue and BDLR’s leading questions and kid glove treatment. If Mom/West pick up on this in short deposition they should demand her records or something so they know how to proceed.

    • mung says:

      Wait a second. This is actually very telling. If the phone records are real. DeeDee was talking to Trayvon when this happened. The next call was to 911 from the police to determine the phone number. She never tried to call him back? The phone should be filled with missed calls and voice mails.

      • diwataman says:

        The phone information ought to show that but It doesn’t show up on the T-Mobile bill when it goes to voicemail.

        • waltherppk says:

          The ping logs for the DeeDee phone would show not just the failed to complete calls to the “heart” phone found at the scene of the shooting and alleged to have been the Trayvon phone, but the ping logs for the DeeDee phone would show all other calls from that phone to whatever numbers whether such calls were completed or not. This is one reason WHY the PING LOGS for ALL the PHONES associated with the case are KEY FORENSIC EVIDENCE and are DISCOVERABLE BRADY MATERIAL, doubly so because of the LEGAL MATERIALITY of those same PING LOGS. Any forensic evidence which helps to show the guilt or innocence of an accused, either directly or by supporting or impeaching the testimony of witnesses is MATERIAL EVIDENCE and is BRADY MATERIAL. The PING LOGS for all the phones associated with the case certainly fit that criteria and are DISCOVERABLE EVIDENCE which may be DEMANDED by O’Mara to be Produced by subpoena or by motion to compel discovery of same information in all its particulars. To fail to perform such discovery would be ineffective assistance of counsel and legal malpractice.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      D-Man, Are you saying that she is not legaly responsible for her actions? That is what being “insane” means- i.e. legally she does not know right from wrong. Insane is a legal term, not a medical term. I agree with boutis that she may have a learning disability. I suspect that is what you mean too???

      • diwataman says:

        Actually insane is defined by Oxford as;

        in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behaviour, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.

        How retarded does one have to be in order to not comprehend that one ought to contact police and family in a situation like that? I would think if she were that retarded she wouldn’t even be able to use a phone. So I’m not talking about a learning disability.

        I’m talking about a person who goes through such a thing and does nothing. What kind of a person does that? The normal reaction would be one of great concern and to contact someone. She did not do that that night. Why?

        If I was on the phone with my wife and she told me some creepy guy was following her then I heard them say something to her, like “oh you lookin sweet honey, I got to get me some of that” then I thought I heard she was grabbed and the phone went dead and I couldn’t contact her, what do you think I would do in that situation? What would any normal person do? If I said meh and went to play video games and eat chips would you call that a learning disability?

        • selfdefenseadvocate says:

          As a retired mental health professional, I won’t get into a lot of professional jargon, nor do I want to provide the scheme team with ideas, but will just say that we should be careful about diagnosing different areas of mental illness without having all the facts. “Insanity” is not a medical nor psychiological diagnosis. Your example about a creepy guy following your wife is about two mentally healthy people and what their normal behavior would be expected to be. “Learning disability” (and I;m not saying DD has one) is a catch all phrase for any number of mental problems. My point is, we simply don’t know if “DD” has any mental or psychological issues. In fact, we don’t even know whether she actually exists. My take on it is that DD is an enigma and the defense needs concrete factual information about her and the phone records. You do an excellent job researching documents, phones, pings, etc. and I look to you and a few others on here to provide facts on that “stuff” because I am technologically challenged (learning disability? insane?) :razz:

          • diwataman says:

            It doesn’t take a genius or for one to be a doctor to see the problem. All you need is that example to know someone is f’ed up. “Learning Disability” is a nice way of saying things. I’m calling her what she is; la chica es una locura.

            • selfdefenseadvocate says:

              :lol: If you had said that in the first place, I wouldn’t have jumped in~ wouldn’t have known what you were saying. I am also 2nd language challenged.

              • diwataman says:

                I did say that in the first place. I’ve actually stated it twice. It just seems you have a problem with the terminology being used. I don’t know how to speak Spanish. Google Translator did that for me.

                • selfdefenseadvocate says:

                  Yep- it was the original terminology with which I had problems. “Nuts” is (are?) fine~

                • jello333 says:

                  I lived in far southern California for awhile when I was a little kid. Half of my friends were Mexican, so I picked up a few words here and there. I think the first word I learned was “loco”. I was like, how cool! I can speak Spanish now, and I can even INSULT people in another language. ;)

              • eastern2western says:

                he said the girl is nuts.

        • jello333 says:

          Yeah, no doubt. To have heard what Dee Dee claims to have heard, and not contact ANYONE? To just go about your business as if nothing happened? Yeah… definitely has to be something wrong with her. But I think the simpler explanation as to why she didn’t have a normal response to that experience… is that she didn’t HAVE that experience. She was NOT on the phone with him.

          • Sharon says:

            Seeing and hearing this type of thing and not contacting anyone is normal to their culture, isn’t it? That’s why the cops in Chicago only find and convict 8% of their local obama-sons who murder people.

            I think her nonresponse is a normal thing in her world. Good grief, look at his parents’ nonresponse after they knew their son was dead.

            John Edwards said it best, “There are two Americas.”

    • hooson1st says:

      You never can tell with teenagers what may be going on in their brains.

      • diwataman says:

        Oh good god give me a break, shes 18 not 4.

        • hooson1st says:

          Well, of course, I was speaking in generalities.
          However, from the Crump tape, would you guess her age was closer to 18 or to 4??

          • diwataman says:

            Generalities? You mean apologetics which you appear to grant everyone like a priest or something. Are you a priest?

            • rumpole2 says:

              You are right. Given the scenario as described (by the Scheme Team) it would be “normal” to have great anxiety and fears that “something serious” had just happened to your friend (loved one). As you say, you would expect several “panic calls” to TM’s phone from Dee Dee… especially since we are told these are teen types who phone and text constantly. You also would expect a call to 911 (perhaps NEN). Maybe the absence of that is a “black culture” thing… so I agree… instead you might expect calls to friends, family and the social network. Phone calls, tweets, messages on fb etc.
              It seems we have none of that and so, Dman is correct to diagnose this patient as “insane” if all these factors are true. DeeDee is detached from reality, unable to empathise.

              Of course the alternative conclusion is that the Scheme Team narrative/DeeDee call with TM is false :D

              • boricuafudd says:

                Or that she was complicit in the assault GZ, don’t forget that.

              • jello333 says:

                More circumstantial evidence that the whole Dee Dee saga is false:

                Nothing on Twitter, Facebook, or anywhere else from ANY of Trayvon’s friends about this. I mean not ONE POST, as far as I know, saying ANYTHING about someone having been on the phone with Trayvon just before he died. NOTHING. So you telling me that dozens of friends, and THEIR friends (and on and on), have just ALL kept quiet about this? About this internationally-known event? Nah… no way ANYONE could keep quiet about that, ESPECIALLY not a bunch of teenagers!

            • hooson1st says:

              Bless you my son :)

            • hooson1st says:


              As for the apologetics angle –

              I think your criticism is justified, as is my reason for being circumspect.

              There is a lot we know about this case.

              And, there is a lot that we don’t know, that prosecutors, Crump and MOM/West know already.

              And there is more to be learned.

              Given what is not yet known allows plenty of room for speculation. For myself, I am less comfortable with making definitive statements when I don’t believe I have a handle on all the necessary facts.

              We can agree on what adds up and what doesn’t add up. We can agree on what the evidence indicates. The evidence, accumulated so far, indicates that GZ’s account of what transpired a year ago is fairly accurate.

              But we don’t know what goes on in anyone’s head. We don’t know all the factors that go into motivation for certain actions.

              My experiences with our legal system has given me a less-jaundiced view of the system than is commonly held here at CTH.

              • diwataman says:

                Okay but I don’t know what any of that has to do with what I’m talking about. I don’t have to know what in Jeffrey Dahmer’s head either. I’m saying if you take DD’s story at face value and that is what she actually believed and experienced then to try to forgive that as some teenybopper thing is ridiculous. You seem to attempt to do the same with everyone involved which I wouldn’t see how your experience in the legal system would help, unless you’re the prison Chaplin, then I get it.

                • hooson1st says:


                  DeeDee’s phone interview by Crump and the subsequent interview with BDLR did not provide much in the way of useful information, especially, given the manner in which the interviews were conducted.

                  Whether she has a learning disability, or communication challenges, the interviews were labored. Anyone can speculate as to why and wherefore.

                  • diwataman says:

                    Huh? I’m talking about…ugh, please read my original comment, my main premise is what she did in regards to the night of Feb 26th, the “guilt” thing she mentioned in the BDLR interview was just a kicker.

              • selfdefenseadvocate says:

                hooson1st says: “But we don’t know what goes on in anyone’s head. We don’t know all the factors that go into motivation for certain actions”. _______________________________
                Amen- that would require a crystal ball and mine was sent back to the factory for repairs.

                • diwataman says:

                  OMG another one, lol. I don’t need a crystal ball to look into Jeffrey Dahmer’s head to know what he did was messed up. Just like I don’t need one for DD’s head to know what she did was messed up either. Have I slipped into the twilight zone here? Or is it just some moral relativism or something I’m dealing with here. I don’t get. Well at least rumpole2 gets what I’m saying.

                  • scubachick75 says:

                    Her actions or lack of, pretty much tells you what is going on in her head. I mean the girl can hear grass, ya know? :)

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    I think we can all fall into the trap of “academic debate” (anything is possible) rather than simply “empathising” and using “common sense”.
                    By that I mean simply imagining ourselves (as examples of normal rational, caring people) in the shoes of the various players. It is what we all do in daily life… it is why we can be emotionally effected by events we have no physical contact with. It is not hard to imagine being in DeeDee’s situation (if true) and not hard to imagine the range of things we might do… and to see that DeeDee does none of those…. hence she does not react “normally” (she is nuts)… or… as I say, perhaps the DeeDee story is fiction (Most likely IMO)

                  • selfdefenseadvocate says:

                    I’m glad you are the one who is able to get into Dahmer’s head. The rest of us “get” what you are saying, but it is just sooo much fun to mess with ya :lol: Just another slow news day.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      I have long felt she must be mentally retarded. she has to be. thats the only way they can explain their story…..the whole “she heard all this go down and funds out he was killed, yet still needs to be told she was the last one to talk to him” thing just makes no sense at all…….how can she not know this….its kinda a given…..

  15. mung says:

    So since we seem to be doing more investigative reporting than anyone else wants to do, we should separate the 2 DeeDees and attempt to determine possible people they could actually be. I think we have a pretty good idea who the 16 year old one is. But what about the 18 year old one? Is there anyone out there that meets the criteria?

  16. C'mon Man says:

    During the interview with Witness 8 BDLR asks her how long she knew Trayvon and she replies since kindergarten when he would come to her house WITH his best friend. BDLR rephrases her answer to “ok so he was your best friend” and she doesn’t correct him. I think it’s possible that she meant that he and his best friend would come to her house to play with HER brother, not her, which seems more likely for kindergarteners. Later she says that the phone is NOW in her name (you need to be 18 to have a cell phone in your own name). Is it possible that the person he was talking to that night was her brother? Maybe even the same friend Trayvon claimed he was holding the jewelry for in his backpack? Seems more likely that someone like that would egg Trayvon on to a confrontation with GZ than a girlfriend. That would explain why no one called police that night when the phone cut off during the scuffle. Also, I always thought it odd that a teenage girl would show up at a hospital traumatized to the point of a health crisis and no one who treated her learned what set off the health issues and thought to report it to police right then.

    • treewig says:

      I find it really difficult to believe that TM knew this girl since kindergarten and was going to her house at that age, yet Sybrina just started hearing things about this girl in December and didn’t seem to know much about her.

      I think the story being told has a lot of fabrication, but I think we might be making a bit too much of the age thing. I could conceive that its possible Crump (or any lawyer) would have told people that she was a minor so that the media would leave her alone and I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Now, if he told prosecutors/authorities she was a minor or if the girl in the first interview said she was 16 and the one in the second interview was 18, then clearly thats a problem. Until I know for sure, I am going to assume they are the same person. Now I do think there are all sorts of issues with this girl not saying a word to anyone until Crump/Martins found her and that she wouldn’t talk to authorities, etc. ITs very fishy for example that Crump says he didn’t get her name and address, yet I believe Sabrina went to her house to talk with her and her mother before the Crump interview, so clearly they knew it.

      • diwataman says:

        Sybrina didn’t raise Trayvon so I can see how she didn’t know her. Alicia might have though.

        • jello333 says:

          I try to point that out every once in awhile. We really should be paying more attention to Alicia. She probably knows a lot more about whatever problems Trayvon may have been having than Sybrina does.

          • hooson1st says:

            good point

          • diwataman says:

            Yep and what the truly sad part is the “other side” so to speak condemns such comments. They attribute it to merely attempting to smear the name of anyone related to Trayvon. Funny thing is that’s what they do. It’s sad because without understanding like that, and other things that are not directly related to the legal case, one can not understand much about the legal case itself.

            Too bad Alicia isn’t talking though. She seems like she can almost be the only truthful one among all of them but she understands and fights for “the cause” brother, don’t ever forget that.

      • mung says:

        See there is the problem though. Since they age and story is different, I am going to believe that they are different people until I see proof that they are not. Again like the missing phone data, they need to pick a lie and stick to it. If she was really 18 then they lied about her age and that isn’t good. If it is 2 different people, well that is just criminal.

      • hooson1st says:

        You have brought up a good point.

        Whatever Crump has told investigators and/or formally stated in a sworn affidavit, should be taken as (initially) true, but not necessarily the whole truth.

        There is nothing for Crump to gain by directly lying to the authorities.

        Whatever Crump has said publicly in the media and elsewhere in one sense is irrelevant.

        It is not irrelevant to Crump’s responsibility in whipping public opinion against GZ.

        Should Crump be deposed, the public statements will be of tremendous use to MOM/West.

        Point 33 of Crump’s affidavit, as pointed out by Sundance, focuses a key question.

        “So who was on the phone for the mystery March 19th interview (Dee Dee) ?”

    • nettles18 says:

      His friends all called him Tray or Slim. DeeDee called him Trayvon.

  17. mung says:

    Does anyone have mp3 or wave of the BDLR interview?

  18. There is no way that 18 year old Dee Dee hanging out and hooking up with 16 year old Trayvon, who just turned 17. Also, from the tapes you can tell that there are two Dee Dees as they are “Dumb” and “Dumber” but especially DD2.

    Also, for the deposition, DD2 “possibly lived in the_______.” Later, she disappeared and a secondary attempt was made to locate her “in the _______________at the ____________ of Broward County”

    This tells me she has special needs in the extreme and all the more reason a 16 year old would not hang out with her.

    Lastly, DD seems to lack verbal skills that would support the idea that she could be on the phone with someone conversing for several hours in one day. Most likely, DD2 was a street ho who was paid some money for her testimoney but probably doesn’t even remember what she said. This will crumble on cross examination and a review of her phone logs.

    • howie says:

      Halfway house/Looney Bin?

      • John Galt says:

        Well, there is something so super secret about her address that State and Judge are willing to trample on the disclosures mandated by Rule 3.220.

        • waltherppk says:

          Floriduh knows how to run a railroad Toot toot …Floriduh is the little engine that could when it comes to running roughshod over your rights

        • C'mon Man says:

          Maybe it’s time to reevaluate the whole Witness 8 story. Tracy Martin learned that Trayvon was on the phone at the time of the confrontation from the bill — that’s all that can be proven. It’s possible that Crump made up the 16 year old sweetheart story to protect the identity of the real person he was talking to, never counting that the case and continued scrutiny would be this tough. BDLR interviews an 18 year old who came across as someone reciting a script and not too broken up about losing her best friend. She had to be prodded to recall the “get off” at the end of the call. Her identity would need to remain private not because she is a minor, but more likely because if it was known and she had to keep up the ruse in public, her friends wouldn’t stand for all the attention she would get for lying about a romantic relationship. It makes more sense that the person he was talking to was a male friend, probably her younger (?) brother he would come to visit since kindergarten. That would explain the phone being changed to her name, since if TM was talking to another troubled young man and he had to get on the stand for cross examination the story would fall apart, if not end up looking a lot less sympathetic.

          • John Galt says:

            “Tracy Martin learned that Trayvon was on the phone at the time of the confrontation from the bill — that’s all that can be proven.”

            Prove it.

            The phone records published by Crump came from online access to Tracy Martin’s T-Mobile account, not from a bill. Crump contends that Tracy found the information on March 18 while looking for the PIN. However the cops asked Tracy for the phone PIN on March 5.

            Bottom of page 3: “Welcome, tracy”

            Bottom of page 5: Bill cycle 1/29/12 – 2/24/12

            Seems to me that the next bill cycle would end after the alleged March 18 DD discovery date.


            • hooson1st says:

              nice work

            • sundance says:

              what exactly is your claim here?

              • John Galt says:

                Read paragraph 17 of Crump’s affidavit. He claims that he learned about DD for the first time on March 18th from phone records “only then recently made available.” Note that Crump is very vague with respect to who found the records and how they were found. Recall Natalie Jackson’s prior allegations (democracynow video, IIRC) that they were found by a PI.

                Nonsense. The online T-Mobile log from which the phone records were obtained was always available, as it was Tracy’s account (“Welcome, tracy”)

                Crump previously made allegations that Tracy Martin found the information upon receipt of his phone bill and then immediately called Crump (see video below). I am claiming that I find that very unlikely because the billing cycle would not generate a bill to Tracy near March 18th, the records provided by Crump came from an online login to Tracy’s account and not from a bill, and further that the discovery of the phone number very likely happened or or before March 5 when the cop asked Tracy for the phone PIN, which likely would have motivated logging into the account. Crump in fact previously stated that Tracy found DD’s number when looking for the phone PIN.

                “We took another step in this — what has been a daily journey for the past three and a half weeks. Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening, was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon’s password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive.”


            • wrongonred says:

              What am I missing here? I have T-Mobile, and I just checked my account and there is a recent activity link that gives me all the calls numbers, etc up to the minute as if it were the activity on my statement. I did just notice that the posted Recent Activity is all T-Mobile to T-Mobile calls within the same network. I thought DD had Simple Mobile? Am I missing something, or did DD supposedly have T-Mobile as well?

              • John Galt says:

                “there is a recent activity link that gives me all the calls numbers, etc up to the minute”

                Bingo. There was no waiting until March 18th “for only recently available phone records” to discovery DD. ALL BS.

              • John Galt says:

                “Am I missing something, or did DD supposedly have T-Mobile as well?”

                SimpleMobile which is apparently served by T-Mobile.

                • wrongonred says:

                  Do we know that for a fact? They may leverage the same network, but since Simple Mobile is all AYCE plans, and TMO still has minute capped plans, it is a total negative for TMO to do that. No advantage. I am actually trying to ask them now….I think that is hinky…..perhaps the heart phone and the real phone are on the same plan…….his cousin or something. I am pretty sure though they share the same infrastructure that they would not read T-Mobile to T-Mobile calls on the Call Log. Give me a sec to ask

                • boricuafudd says:

                  They share the same network, calls from Simple Mobile to a T-Mobile phone are listed as network to network calls.

                  • wrongonred says:

                    Not what TMO just told me:

                    Me: I was just wondering for the purposes of T-Mobile to T-Mobile calling, if SIMPLE Mobile users were included, or if they are just treated like non-network calls?
                    %Joker S: Hi XXXXX, I’ll be glad to assist you with your recent inquiries. Let me check this one for you.
                    %Joker S: Upon checking here, it shows that T-Mobile to T-Mobile unlimited calling only works for T-Mobile numbers.
                    Me: For example, if I called someone with a SIMPLE Mobile phone, would it appear as a T-Mobile to T-Mobile call in my Activity, or would it use Anytime Minutes?
                    %Joker S: Thanks for giving me an example.
                    Me: So it would just show up as any other non-TMO call?
                    %Joker S: Yes, calling a Simple mobile number will reflect or be deducted to your whenever minutes.
                    %Joker S: It will show as calling to a non T-Mobile numbers.
                    Me: Cool, thank you for the info. That was all I needed to know
                    %Joker S: You are very welcome.
                    Me: Cheers
                    %Joker S: I am glad that we are able to resolved your concern. It has been my pleasure assisting you.
                    %Joker S: Thank you for choosing T-mobile Chat, have a great day! Cheers!

                • wrongonred says:

                  Just checked, the info I posted is further down. TMO says they are not treated as in network calls and will not show on activity as T-Mobile to T-Mobile, I asked that specifically.

                  • John Galt says:

                    Now I’m really confused.

                  • wrongonred says:

                    Unless “DD”s phone for the purposes of the call logs is not really DD’s phone, and is instead one of the other’s on Tracy’s account or perhaps another family members (cousin, etc) who Trayvon kept in constant contact with. I bet it was easier for the Scheme to rewrite the narrative after Tracy furnished the call logs and just say DD used a burner, so whoooppps, you cannot disprove the narrative because no one has the call logs from the other phone. But if what T-Mobile says in accurate, the other phone was theirs, which means they should have the info.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Good work. The only slight question is whether the info you were given today was also the way it was done a year ago. Back on the phone to customer svc with you! ;) (joking..)

          • mung says:

            DD#2 was fishing for what BDLR wanted her to say though the whole interview. The script wasn’t very good.

            • C'mon Man says:

              I agree, the script wasn’t very good and putting that person on the witness stand would be a disaster for BDLR. They can only prove whether or not TM was on the phone and what number he was connected to, but I think it’s questionable exactly who he was talking to or what was said. During the BDLR interview he asks her who’s name the phone is in and she says that now it is in her name. If it was in her mother’s name and she wanted to protect her daughter’s identity wouldn’t that mother just leave it in her own name? I think it is possible he was talking to someone else in that household, who had a good reason not to call 911 after TM’s phone went dead. I believe in the BDLR interview, he never asks her why she didn’t call 911 after losing touch with Trayvon. Imagine if he did ask, what would she say and how would that make her look someday when her identity is known?

              • mung says:

                If it was even anyone she knew. I don’t know that DD#2 even knew Trayvon. Sure doesn’t sound like it by the way she describes him.

          • James F says:

            “Maybe it’s time to reevaluate the whole Witness 8 story. Tracy Martin learned that Trayvon was on the phone at the time of the confrontation from the bill — that’s all that can be proven.”

            No. This is not proven at all. According to Jackson, they hired a P.I. who discovered ‘DeeDee’ – almost certainly from records he obtained from Martin. It is an important distinction.

            When did they hire this investigator?

            Are we to believe this investigator held off looking at the phone records until sunday night? When did this investigator actually discover her?

            Why did Crump feel it necessary to make up the ‘Tracy stumbled upon it accidentally sunday night’ myth? This mythical tale is glaringly absent from Crump’s sworn affidavit.

            • James F says:

              JUAN GONZALEZ: And you’ve had to hire your own investigators because of the terrible job that has been done so far by authorities in ascertaining the facts in this case?

              NATALIE JACKSON: Yes. And, you know, I don’t know if it’s a terrible job or just they thought it was inconsequential to do the job. You know, there’s—whether or not it was important to do or it was bungled, we don’t know. But we had to go out and investigate this case. We hired an investigator that got the phone records. And once we saw Trayvon’s phone record, because he was on the—he had his phone with him, and we saw that he was on the phone when this incident purportedly happened. We contacted the person he was on the phone with. It was a young girl. And she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon. And this is very extraordinary, because she and Trayvon—according to the phone records, there was a phone call at 7:12. The phone call lasted for four minutes. That would make it 7:16. According to police records, they were on the scene at 7:17, and Trayvon was dead. So, this young girl is a very important witness.


              • tara says:

                We hired an investigator that got the phone records.

                What?? I thought Tracy found them by simply logging on to his account?

                • John Galt says:

                  They have told numerous different stories and don’t want to swear to anything specific. Read paragraph 17 of Crump’s affidavit.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Well, if we cannot keep up with all of the different versions of this entire saga, who the hell can? There is no way I would make the effort to retain every variation of their lies. I might hurt my brain but bless those here who do it.

        • selfdefenseadvocate says:

          Excellent point, JG. Sure hope defense can get some sunshine on the secrets.

      • HughStone says:

        “In the GYM/POOL at the BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB of Broward County

  19. mung says:

    I haven’t been able to get the BDLR into the software yet, but just listening to it, here is what I am noticing. In the Crump tapes the person speaking uses very short, hard phrases and the person in the BDLR tape is much more melodic and fluid. While the voices are similar, the speech pattern is much different.

    Another thing I noticed in the BDLR interview was that when she was asked if Trayvon said George hit him, she started trying to make up what happened and he stopped her. That is very telling.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      MOM should ask Ronquavis Fulton For the name of the DD he met at TM’s wake. RF did say he met DD at the wake.

      • mung says:

        Very true.

      • tara says:

        Not really a big deal, but Ronquavis said he met DeeDee at the funeral, not the wake.

        GRACE: Ronquavis Fulton, I want to talk to you about Trayvon Martin. Do you know this girl he was talking to on the phone that evening?

        FULTON: No, but I met her at the funeral.

        GRACE: You did?

        FULTON: Yes.

        GRACE: Did you have any opportunity to talk to her?

        FULTON: No, not personally. Just a meet — just a formal meeting.

        Who else met her? It would be really odd if he was the only one. And I’ve always wondered … why didn’t she tell anyone at the funeral that she had talked to Trademark on Feb 26? The Funeral was Mar 3, but Tracy didn’t “discover” her until Mar 18? Seems highly unlikely that she could keep such a thing quiet.

        Can Ronquavis be called as a witness? To ID the person he met at the funeral who was introduced as DeeDee? Did the funeral home have surveillance cameras?

    • jello333 says:

      I haven’t listened at all closely to the 1st interview, so I’m not sure about this. But didn’t she use the “run from the back” phrase too? If so, here’s something you can check out.

      In the 2nd interview, the two or three times Dee Dee uses that phrase she makes a real point of the pronunciation. Listen to it… “he gon run from the bacckkk”. I can’t get the gist by typing, but what I’m trying to say is she emphasizes “back” in a strange way. Now if she does NOT do that in the 1st tape, then I have a theory. A theory that of course assumes there ARE two different Dee Dees:

      They (Crump or whoever) went through and picked out certain odd manners of speaking of the 1st girl, and coached the 2nd girl on using those. “Run from the back” being so odd (and by the way, I STILL don’t know what that means), they thought it would be a good thing to throw in to the 2nd one, just in case anyone doubted this was the same girl. So Dee Dee #2, who didn’t know the phrase before she was coached on it, is making sure she says it right. I can almost see her, after saying it, smiling a little to herself… “Hey! I said that pretty good!” ;)

  20. John Galt says:

    I wonder how the mini-depo of W8 will go?

    MOM: Do you have a Facebook account?
    W8: Yeah.
    MOM: What is the login information for that account?
    W8: I dunno.
    MOM: You don’t know?
    W8: Nah, da compuder member dat by isself.
    MOM: Have you had more than one Facebook account?
    W8: Yeah.
    MOM: Is the Facebook account that you had on February 26, 2012 different from the one you have today?
    W8: Yeah.
    MOM: What is the login or other identifying information for the account that you had on February 26, 2012?
    W8: I dunno.

    • diwataman says:

      lolz, yep. I would actually pay to hear her full deposition. Maybe that’s what O’Mara should start doing, charging for discovery.

      • boutis says:

        Didn’t the judge say call her JA for a hearing anytime to discuss problems? I would expect an emergency hearing scheduled immediately if the star ear-witness is a no show or can’t remember her own name. After all the judge ruled out a continuance so she should want this stuff brought to her attention immediately. If she doesn’t it is another cause for appeal and she has brought this kind of mess on herself.

      • rumpole2 says:

        I think you have hit on a winner there. “Pay per view discovery ”
        Just some of the key bits… I’d pay.

  21. mung says:

    Right around 9:15 DD #2 says, “he runnin from the back” But then she says “he lost him and start walking back” Walking back where exactly? Walking back towards George? That is almost what it sounds like to me.

    • C'mon Man says:

      Good catch — just makes me believe that she is reciting a script, not recalling an actual conversation. You can tell she is lying when she starts sounding breathless as she gets on a roll describing something she has memorized well and wants to get out before forgetting. I think if she were to be called to testify she could just start crying during cross examination claiming she doesn’t remember and just misses him so very much. If he was talking to another dude that night, that wouldn’t work as well.

    • tara says:

      You’ve caused me to re-read the Stately McDaniel transcript which is one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever read in my life! I have read that thing probably 50 times and it never ceases to make me laugh so hard I get tears in my eyes.

  22. mung says:

    When she said she heard “a little get off” and BDLR asks if she could hear who it was she says “I coulda heard Trayvon” then it molds into “yeah it was Trayvon”. The first time it was like she was asking if they wanted her to say it was Trayvon.

    • C'mon Man says:

      Mung, that’s another one. She claims after being prodded that she “could hear a little, bit, like a little get off.” That comes from the first seconds of the first 911 call to come in, however in the call it’s obvious that the “get off” is being screamed (by GZ) loudly enough to picked up by a phone inside a home, so it should have been louder in TM’s headset. That “get off” statement is very important which is why BDLR prodded her to recall it, because under the SYG law, I believe it doesn’t matter who initiates a physical confrontation, but it must end when either one indicates a desire to end hostilities. In this case, no one witnessed the start, but whoever yelled get off is the one who wanted to end hostilities.

      • jello333 says:

        Yeah. Even here on this site, where nearly everyone knows most all of the minute details of this case, there’s still some disagreement about that. I mean the very beginning of that 911 call. Some people just can’t hear the words, it just sounds like a scream. And that was probably the same for me at first. But now, whenever I listen to it… yeah, I can hear a scared scream, “Get oooofff!”

    • John Galt says:

      I noticed that pattern also. DD tentatively offers some BS. If BDLR leads her into confirming, she confirms. If BDLR makes an “I want the truth” speech, she backs off.

    • John Galt says:

      Here is what I think she said. I posted this previously on June 5:

      Atty: So THE LAST THING YOU HEARD was some kind of noise like something hitting somebody?
      DD: Yeah.
      Atty: OK, and when you heard that noise, something hitting somebody, did you hear the man say anything or did you hear Trayvon say anything?
      DD: I could hear a little bit.
      Atty: What could you hear?
      DD: I COULDA [could of ?] just hear like, like, like, the headphone, cuz the headphone, he might got off. But I could still hear a little bit like
      Atty: What could you hear?
      DD: Like a little get off, some stuff.
      Atty: You heard get off?
      DD: Yeah, like a little get off. Now I’m calling Tray [eager to change topic]
      Atty: Could you tell who was saying that?
      DD: I COULDA (could of?) know Trayvon
      Atty: I’m sorry?
      DD: I COULD OF heard Trayvon.
      Atty: [leading - turns tentative testimony into definite confirmed testimony] OK, let me make sure I understand you. You could hear that it was Trayvon saying that?
      Then DD confirms and lead by Atty, reconfirms.

      Now listen starting at 14:23. Atty starts talking about GZ being in the car and wants to know if TM ever said he saw GZ get out of the car and start chasing him. At 14:45 DD responds “You want that, too?” Atty goes into “I want the truth” CYA routine and DD backs off that BS.

      At 15:50:

      Atty: Did Trayvon ever say the guy is coming at me, he’s going to hit me?
      DD: Yeah, you could say that.
      Followed by DD mumbling and Atty “I want the truth” CYA routine and DD backs off.

      So I think this is the pattern: Dee Dee offers false testimony in a mumbling, tentative manner. If Atty enthusiastically endorses with leading question to get confirmation, DD confirms. If the BS is too obvious, Atty queries and recites CYA “I want the truth” routine and DD backs off.

      • mung says:

        You got it nailed down.

      • John Galt says:

        More stuff I previously posted, in case Diwataman has the time to work on it.

        Listen to the Crump interview starting at 6:00 The sound quality sucks. (Why is that? is an interesting topic.) But it is clear that Dee Dee heard a “push”, the head set fell, and the phone cut off. She heard nothing further. She did not hear “get off, get off”.

        In the State Attorney interview, Dee Dee transforms the push into a “bump” @ 11:35 and then into “something hitting something” @ 11:44. The phone is shut off @ 12:00. The LAST THING she heard was “something hitting somebody” @12:20. Note how the prosecutor has worked his way from a “push”, to a “bump” to “something hitting something”, to “something hitting somebody” all by using improper leading questions.

        At this point @ 12:29, even though Dee Dee has testified emphatically that the phone cut off, the attorney continues to fish, asking leading questions, trying to get Dee Dee to say that she heard something more. Dee Dee is eager to comply, and now remembers that she heard “get off, get off”.

        I think they derived “get off” from one of the 911 calls:

        A timeline match on the disconnection of DD’s call and the 911 “get off” call may be interesting.

        Per the Crump provided phone records, DD’s call started at 7:12 and lasted 4 minutes. I dunno about rounding effects.

        So call starts somewhere around 7:12 and ends at 7:16, approx, subject to rounding.

        911 “get off” screaming call starts at 7:16:11 per wagist

        So the timing is very tight, but having this information, I think they would feel comfortable coaching Dee Dee to say “get off”.

        Crump says she hears faint noises, but there is no reference to “get off” and the narrative is still “pushed” consistent with the Dee Dee – Crump recorded statement:

        “At that point, she says Trayvon — she hears Trayvon say, why are you following me. She hears the other boy say, what are you doing around here. And again, Trayvon says, why are you following me. And that’s when she says again he said, what are you doing around here. Trayvon is pushed. The reason she concludes, because his voice changes like something interrupted his speech. Then the other thing, she believes the earplug fell out of his ear. She can hear FAINT NOISES but no longer has the contact. She hears an altercation going and she says, then suddenly, somebody must have hit the phone and it went out because that’s the last she hears.”

        During the press conference, Crump makes it clear that he is very familiar with the 7:12 to 7:16 Dee Dee call timeline, the 7:17 police arrival, as well as the 911 calls. So it seems to me that “get off” was concocted after the March 19 Dee Dee – Crump audio statement, after the March 20 Crump press conference, but before the April 2 Dee Dee – BDLR audio statement.

        • debfrmhell says:

          The fact remains that national attention didn’t start until around March 8, IIRC. There was no reason for this young woman to be frightened of anyone until then. Ronquavis was introduced to her at the funeral.

          I can’t help but to think that she was not brought forward until the Family and Crump could hear all of the 911 calls and the NEN. Tracy is the only person who heard the 911 with the gunshot within a couple of days and he wasn’t being represented by Crump or anyone at that time. Sybrina never even came to Sanford during that time frame to comment one way or the other as to who was yelling for help.

          They needed those calls to be released to the public so they could produce the needed someone, W8, to “connect the dots” for the public’s consumption. I have no reason to believe that she was not coached before allowing Matt Gutman to do his exclusive.

          No attorney would allow media to be present if he didn’t have a good idea of what that young woman was going to say. And if she had heard any kind of “Get off,” I promise that Gutman would have lead with that in his intro. No hoodie. No profile. No chase.

          IMO, she is a manufactured witness.

        • brutalhonesty says:

          “She hears the other boy say, what are you doing around here.” did crump actually call george a boy?

          • jello333 says:

            Yep, she goes from “boy” to “old man”. Just one of about a million interesting things about that girl and her statements.

      • Alexandra M. says:

        Spot ON!

    • partyof0 says:

      I hate to say that I have…tried to get to the truth…in some instances where it was really “none of my business”…but, I have always said I would rather have the truth than a lie….but, like DD on the stand…I would ask a significant other a question to which I already had the answer to….their answer would be either in a low tone and/or downplay it with words to indicate the insignificance of the untruth…like “little”… as in it was JUST a “little lie” it…or…as in her case…it was just “a little get off” as opposed to “a great big get off”. I beleive she was downplaying her lie with the term “little”. JMO

      • John Galt says:

        Very interesting.

        “12. The liar mentions something casually and downplays its importance, even though it should be a big deal to her.”

        • partyof0 says:

          Yea….JG…good article…the one befitting DD2 is also …

          3. She answers a question with another one designed to delay her reply, such as “Could you repeat your question?”, “Who told you that?”, “Are you really asking me whether…?” “Why would you ask such a thing?”….

          OR…”You want that too?’

  23. mung says:

    Another important things. At the end when she says that she feels guilty and BDLR is trying to lead her, she says “cause I knowed him and he would never fight, that was his problem”. Well I guess you didn’t know him because there is plenty of evidence that he did fight. This was the narrative at the time that he didn’t fight, but now we know better. Another huge tell I think.

    • John Galt says:

      Having familiarity with the rules of evidence, it also appears to me that the BDLR interview was designed with the rules regarding hearsay exceptions and character evidence in mind.

  24. 22tula says:

    So is the Scheme Team using the “Drone” method of not capturing Witness DD’s name and address in order to avoid interrogation? But Crump knows. Put him on the stand.

    Drone Attack – Declared Guilty by Media and now the US Congress.
    March 28, 2012

  25. diwataman says:

    “They had talked all that day, about 400 minutes, starting that morning to the afternoon.” –Crumpadump

    I’m guessing we don’t have the entire phone bill then? It looks like we do though from what I can tell. From the bill we have though, if we assume all the T-Mobile to T-Mobile ones are her, that should be 278 minutes if I added it correctly not 400. Why would he say 400? He also said the calls started in the morning but the first phone call is at 2:38pm. And he says “to the afternoon”, shouldn’t that be night or evening? 7:12 was the last call.

    It looks like the first activity on that phone was the text at 11:13am. Did Trayvon not use his phone all that morning till then?

    • mung says:

      DD#1 said 9:00 am then it sounds like someone corrected her and she said um 10:00am was the first time they talked that day.

    • gannasview says:

      Having two teenage nephews living with me for about four years, I find it difficult to believe Trayvon was talking to anyone for 400 minutes. The only times they talked would be to their dad, mom, or me. They did not talk to their girlfriends. They text all day! They will need to show the real evidence that Trayvon was talking on his cell phone all day.

  26. recoverydotgod says:

    Who told Matt Gutman a “16-year-old girl” was being interviewed which he subsequently reported?

    March 20, 2012

    “ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Crump about the last moments of the teenager’s life…

    …Crump said the girl’s identity was being withheld because “her parents are gravely concerned about her health and her safety.” Her parents asked that only an attorney be allowed to ask her questions.”

    On Trayvon Martin’s birthday, Zimmerman case returns to court
    February 5, 2013
    By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

    They want ABC News to turn over any recordings or notes from Crump’s first interview with “Witness 8,” which ABC reporter Matt Gutman attended. The witness says she was on the phone with Trayvon in the moments before the shooting.

    • hooson1st says:

      Has anyone contacted Gutman on how he knows that DeeDee was 16 yrs old?

      • diwataman says:

        I’m just going to take a wild guess in that good ol’ Matt aint the kind of guy to be talkin to us types over here. Perhaps you should give it shot and try asking all these friendly, open and honest people like Gutman, Julison, Crump et al. some nice inquisitive questions and see what you can get us. ;)

      • recoverydotgod says:

        Julison was asked “Who told you she was 16?” back when he was interviewed by the CTH.

        Matt Gutman and Seni Tienabeso now report Witness 8 as a “teenage girl”.

        George Zimmerman Loses Bid to Delay Summer Murder TrialBy MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO (@seniABC)
        Feb. 5, 2013


        Besides the motion to delay the trial, most of the remaining proceedings centered around a teenage girl identified so far only as witness 8. Phone records show she was on the phone with Martin moments before the unarmed teen crossed paths with Zimmerman. Her testimony may prove crucial as a jury tries to determine who was the aggressor in the deadly altercation.


        • tara says:

          WOW! Talking points have been updated and everyone is strictly adhering. Good job, Team Skittles. I’m surprised Gutman used the word “girl” though, not usually the word one uses when referring to an adult female. Apparently he was instructed to ease in to the new DeeDee characteristics.

        • jello333 says:

          “Phone records show she was on the phone with Martin moments before the unarmed teen crossed paths with Zimmerman.”

          I get a little tired of all the assumptions. Here, lemme fix that:

          “Phone records, [if accurate, and if actually related to the phone in question] show she [or someone else] was on the phone with Martin moments before the unarmed teen crossed paths with Zimmerman.”

          • janc1955 says:

            I’ll edit a little further if you don’t mind, Jello: “Phone records [if accurate, and if actually related to the phone in question] show she [or someone else] was on the phone with Martin moments before the 6-foot-something, athletically built teen with MMA skills, on his most recent 10-day suspension from school, cruising the neighborhood unsupervised, crossed paths with Zimmerman, a resident of the frequently burglarized neighborhood and a neighborhood watch volunteer.

          • Burgers says:

            Wording that caught my attention:

            1 – “Martin” now vs “Trayvon” usually before. Am I wrong?
            2 – How is “crossed paths” being (vaguely) defined; When Martin circled the truck, or when the confrontation began?

        • eastern2western says:

          teenage girl could be any one from 10-19. as long as the 10 still there, it is an official teenager.

    • John Galt says:

      “Crump said the girl’s identity was being withheld because “her parents are gravely concerned about her health and her safety.”

      Once again, note that DD#1 has parents, plural. DD#2 lives with her mother.

      • tara says:

        That bothered me too.

      • janc1955 says:

        They put a spin on virtually every detail of these people’s lives in order to make them appear “normal,” knowing full well families living a “normal” existence are much more palatable than the reality of how the majority of these families live. Despicable.

  27. partyof0 says:

    As Sundance said earlier…the DoP-CRS has been in contact with Florida as Noted by Omara’s request for correspondence, to and from, regarding the “quelling” of riots in the George Zimmerman case which he is NOT going to get…

    —CRS Mandate—
    § 2000g-1. Functions of Service
    It shall be the function of the Service to provide assistance to communities and persons therein in resolving disputes, disagreements, or difficulties relating to discriminatory practices based on race, color, or national origin which impair the rights of persons in such communities under the Constitution or laws of the United States or which affect or may affect interstate commerce. The Service may offer its services in cases of such disputes, disagreements, or difficulties whenever, in its judgement, peaceful relations among the citizens of the community involved are threatened thereby, and it may offer its services either upon its own motion or upon the request of an appropriate State or local official or other interested person.
    § 2000g-2. Cooperation with other agencies; conciliation assistance in confidence and without publicity; information as confidential; restriction on performance of investigative or prosecution functions; violations and penalties
    (a) The Service shall, whenever possible, in performing its functions, seek and utilize the cooperation of appropriate State or local, public, or private agencies.
    (b) The activities of all officers and employees of the Service in providing conciliation assistance shall be conducted in confidence and without publicity, and the Service shall hold confidential any information acquired in the regular performance of its duties upon the understanding that it would be so held. No officer or employee of the Service shall engage in the performance of investigative or prosecuting functions of any department or agency in any litigation arising out of a dispute in which he acted on behalf of the Service. Any officer or other employee of the Service, who shall make public in any manner whatever any information in violation of this subsection, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year.

    IMO…Judge Nelson, in confidence… is doing what she was told to do for Nat’l Security…
    this IS going to trial…
    After that Affidavit was submitted…Nelson “flew” out of that courtroom….
    DANG… I hope I’m wrong

    • partyof0 says:


      No reason to give up though…even if wheels spin till hell freezes over…it’d be worth it.
      I’ve hit a lot of brick walls in my life..but this is not fighting City Hall…it goes a little higher up…

    • hooson1st says:


      Nothing there ties to Judge Nelson.

      • partyof0 says:

        If it is confidential…how would you know?

      • partyof0 says:

        Basically…read 2002g-2b…They don’t want another Rodney King Riot…A riot WOULD embarrass POTUS…
        I don’t know what the cost of the RK riot was…but for some 20 years later and in Florida…with the addition of media coverage…the word “Riot” gets around…you got people who are not just incensed about white on black injustice…you got ppl saying…”Did I hear the word “Riot”…..this is a chance to pick up on some free TV’s, computers, iphones…whatever can be carried…including the shopping cart….

        • Sharon says:

          I don’t think riots would embarass Teh Skeeter. He would just blame the right wing conservatives and the gun lobby and use the riots to push forward the things that are being pushed forward with every other event that occurs on his nonwatch. I have yet to see anything actually embarrass him. Benghazi? He went to bed! Nothing to be embarrassed about. I don’t think he’s capable of being embarrassed. He’s always right.

      • John Galt says:

        We shall see, based on Judge Nelson’s actions in the near future. I expect ABC and Crump to attempt to block discovery. If such attempts are based on assertions of privilege, I think they can immediately appeal an order by Nelson to disclose by filing a writ. Potential irreversible harm, can’t put the cat back in the bag, etc. If Nelson permits such obstruction, or orders disclosure but fails to grant a continuance to defense in the event of delay by appeal, well then I think something’s clearly afoot to protect Crump. My belief would be reinforced if the phone records already in the possession of the defense thoroughly discredit W8, such that the ABC recordings and Crump deposition are not really essential to acquit Z, but would serve to indict Crump.

        • partyof0 says:

          IMO…the whole thing is a bluff…the prosecution…had nothing…opened with nothing…and as you have seen in the media (low coverage) is drawing /showing nothing…but someone is telling them to hold their hand longer…maybe they can draw some more cards (don’t know how?)…really confusing….probably more like someone is creating more misdirection

          • John Galt says:

            Right, further ABC and Crump discovery blocked, case proceeds w/o W8 and I will be typing “Something’s afoot” in all caps.

            • justfactsplz says:

              How can they proceed without Witness#8? How can they prove their case? That only leaves sybrina for the PC affidavit.

              • John Galt says:

                They put on their motley cast of witnesses (Cutcher, blind witness #2), use selected portions of Z’s statements to the cops, the NEN and 911 calls, the physical evidence at the crime scene (T’s body found 30 – 40 feet or whatever away from the T where Z said he was attacked) and Sybrina and the software salesman testify that Trayvon was screaming on the 911 call. BDLR argues that the evidence shows that Z pursued T past the T and initiated the conflict.

                Then Nelson rules Z failed to meet his burden in the immunity hearing to prove that he was not the initial aggressor, conflicting evidence, blah, blah, initial aggressor, while entitled to rely on self-defense at trial per 776.041, can not get immunity pursuant to 776.032, blah, blah, blah and the case goes to trial.

                • mung says:

                  He needs to hire My Cousin Vinnie to be his new lawyer. He would blow this case out of the water.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  Good grief! The defense has their work cut out for them countering all of that garbage.

                  • Sharon says:

                    “…the garbage” isn’t the problem. The problem is that the prosecution is not being required to actually try the case under rule of law. If they did, their incompetence and dysfunction to date would have had the case thrown out.

                  • jello333 says:

                    “Preponderance” of the evidence. That’s all George needs. OF COURSE there will be some evidence that’s NOT in George’s favor. Not much, but some. The State will present that, and the Defense will present theirs. Now I think anyone who has followed this case even slightly, let alone as closely as we have, knows that the amount of pro and con evidence is not even close to being equal. George has a LOT more evidence on his side than the other. So if Nelson follows the law, she’ll rule that while there may be some evidence showing that George is guilty, there’s far more that shows he’s not. And that means he has easily met the “preponderance” threshold, and so he’s granted immunity.

                    Oh, and if she DOESN’T rule that way? John says then it’s on to a trial. I disagree. It’s on to the APPEALS COURT.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I worry about a jury. Too many people may lie to get on the jury.

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  They put on their motley cast of witnesses (Cutcher, blind witness #2)…

                  Cutcher wasn’t a witness to anything that transpired with respect to the altercation itself.

                  The defense can simply counter with every witness to the actual encounter identifying Martin as being on top (i.e. the aggressor) and Zimmerman on the bottom (i.e. the victim).

                  …use selected portions of Z’s statements to the cops, the NEN and 911 calls…

                  Which could be useful for demonstrating motive (“they always get away…”), but absolutely nothing else.

                  And to the contrary, the NEN call recording can be used to demonstrate:
                  – Zimmerman was afraid of Martin (obvious, when Zimmerman related Martin coming near/walking by his vehicle)
                  – Zimmerman lost sight of Martin before Zimmerman ever got out of his vehicle
                  – The NEN operator gave instructions that a reasonable person could reasonably conclude constituted a request for Zimmerman to keep any eye on Martin
                  – When the NEN operator said “we don’t actually need you to [follow Martin”, Zimmerman said “okay”
                  – At the time Zimmerman ended the call, he didn’t know where Martin was

                  The 911 calls corroborate Zimmerman’s story, especially combined with the eyewitness accounts regarding which person was on top, and which person was on bottom. It is utterly illogical that Martin, being on top of Zimmerman, hitting him and repeatedly knocking Zimmerman back to the ground, would sustain pleading screams for help, and to “stop it”. Even more exculpatory: Tracy Martin indicated, as heard by two SPD officers, that the voice crying for help on the 911 call were NOT those of Trayvon Martin.

                  …the physical evidence at the crime scene (T’s body found 30 – 40 feet or whatever away from the T where Z said he was attacked)…

                  As for physical evidence: Zimmerman clearly demonstrated evidence of having sustained a significant use of force against him. Testimony of the EMTs, the police photos, and the medical report with the diagnosis of a broken nose – along with eye witness testimony that Martin was beating Zimmerman – corroborate Zimmerman’s account.

                  Martin evinced no signs of any physical use of force against him, other than the fatal gunshot wound. There is absolutely no phyisical evidence or eye witness testimony that Zimmerman so much as laid a hand on Martin before the gunshot.

                  …and Sybrina…

                  Obvious conflict of financial interest. Testimony contradicted by Tracy Martin and by Zimmerman family, with respect to the voice calling for help.

                  …and the software salesman testify that Trayvon was screaming on the 911 call…

                  Both will be inadmissible. Neither has sufficient voice samples to make the determination. The analyst using the software has a blatant conflict of financial interest.

                  BDLR argues that the evidence shows that Z pursued T past the T and initiated the conflict.

                  Where is evidence of a pursuit? BDLR can argue it, but he cannot support that argument. All of the fight debris exist between the sidewalk “T” and Martin’s body. W8 testified that Martin had eluded Zimmerman, and that Martin had reached the vicinity of Brandi Green’s home (over 300 feet away from Zimmerman, at the sidewalk “T”).

                  And especially important: the defense has already solicited testimony, under oath, from the State, that the State does not have any evidence to refute Zimmerman’s account, or to support the allegation that Zimmerman pursued Martin.

                  Also: mere pursuit does not prove who was the initial aggressor, and mere pursuit does not provide statutory justification for Martin’s use of force against Zimmerman as a matter of “self defense”.

                  And finally: in order for the State to prove that Zimmerman was the initial physical aggressor, it must first prove that Zimmerman was an aggressor, period. And I repeat: Martin evinced no physical signs that he had been subjected to any form of physical aggression, whatsoever.

                  The actual eyewitness testimony and physical evidence far exceed a mere preponderance of the evidence, and instead approach (if not exceed) beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

                  Then Nelson rules Z failed to meet his burden in the immunity hearing to prove that he was not the initial aggressor, conflicting evidence, blah, blah, initial aggressor, while entitled to rely on self-defense at trial per 776.041, can not get immunity pursuant to 776.032, blah, blah, blah and the case goes to trial.

                  So, Nelson is the only subjective element in this fiasco. And I expect a ruling against immunity will immediately be appealed, and acted upon by the 5th DCa before trial.

                  • howie says:

                    Yep sounds about right. Then the state or defense will appeal that to FSC.

                  • John Galt says:

                    “Where is evidence of a pursuit?”

                    NEN call: are you following him, yes. Wind noise sounds like pursuit, time gap (if Z was returning to his truck and not hunting TM he would have been back at his truck), TM body found remote from T, contrary to Z’s statement he was punched and decked at T. Blind witness #2 saw chasing.

                    “I expect a ruling against immunity will immediately be appealed, and acted upon by the 5th DCa before trial.”

                    Not sure if Nelson has to wait for the results of an appeal or not. April 22 immunity hearing, Nelson might not rule on that until early June. I think Lester had a SYG hearing in early August for Anita Smith and didn’t deny the immunity motion until October.


                    Dooley’s manslaughter trial will begin Sept. 4. . . .

                    On Wednesday, Dooley’s attorney, Ronald Tulin, said he was ready for trial, though the state’s 2nd District Court of Appeal has not ruled on Dooley’s immunity claim under Florida’s “stand your ground” law.

                    Tulin appealed after Circuit Judge Ashley Moody denied a motion for dismissal in May.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Great points. I made some of the same, in much less detail, in a later comment. I’m still trying to catch up, and so I made my other comment long after I had seen your (much earlier) comment. Oh, one thing I wanted to correct, because a lot of us here still use the 300′ distance.

                    “Brandi Green’s home (over 300 feet away from Zimmerman, at the sidewalk ‘T’) ”

                    A few days ago when we were all talking about that, I measured it on Google maps. It’s actually over FOUR hundred feet. Which is kinda important, because that makes it even more unlikely George could have chased the wee child that far and then back up to the ‘T’ in the time available.

        • justfactsplz says:

          If it makes you feel better the defense does not need the recording or Crump’s depo. There is enough other evidence. Those would just be icing on the cake. Wolfinger wanted to supeona DeeDee for a good reason.

          • John Galt says:

            “Those would just be icing on the cake.”

            A deposition might ice a Crump Cake.

            • justfactsplz says:

              I would love to see it but I don’t think it will happen. There was enough evidence to discredit Dee Dee when Corey took over. I don’t know how they think they can get away with this.

        • MJW says:

          If such attempts are based on assertions of privilege, I think they can immediately appeal an order by Nelson to disclose by filing a writ.

          Unfortunately, I think a favorable ruling for Zimmerman could immediately be appealed to the 5th DCA by ABC or Crump, but an unfavorable ruling could not be appealed by Zimmerman. The reason is that being forced to reveal the information can’t be undone, but improper denial of discovery could, if necessary, be addressed and remedied in a post-conviction appeal.

        • howie says:

          Let the Writ’s fly!

    • sundance says:

      Yes. This comment is accurate, very accurate, according to our research and interviews.

  28. Tammy Jones says:

    Never posted here before but come often and read comments. I have a question— according to Crump DD was a minor, wouldn’t someone from his firm have to get written parental permission to interview her? What about the news reporter wouldn’t he need written permission to tape the interview and speak with DD? I would think so and should be signed documents from her parents somewhere. I like this website and find it very informative.

    • justfactsplz says:

      Welcome, this website is the very best around, not just on this case either. You bring up a very valid point. There should be a paper trail for this permission.

    • John Galt says:

      There are rules regarding minors and depositions and testimony in court. Not finding anything about phone interviews. Crump’s affidavit indicates that he obtained verbal parental permission. The media could potentially be sued for tort claims like invasion of privacy, infliction of emotional distress in the absence of parental permission. It would definitely be preferred to have permission in writing or recorded, for evidence purposes. It would be interesting to know if ABC has any written parental permission policies and/or forms.

      • tara says:

        Ahhh, good point! ABC broadcast at least one excerpt of the interview, and Gutman quoted other excerpts. He MUST have gotten written permission.

      • C'mon Man says:

        If there isn’t a parental consent form paper trail, could that mean that Witness 8 was 18 from the start? What parent, lawyer, or media person is going to sign off on something that they know if false. It seems like they just made up the minor story hoping no one would ever ask too many questions.

      • wrongonred says:

        Can DD’s parents be subpoenaed with regard to the conduct of the “interview” and their knowledge of the Kindergarten and onward relationship of Trayvon and DD…….since they used to spend so much time together.

    • partyof0 says:

      Yes….I believe someone has mentioned that….if he HAD to get permission from a parent, MOST lawyers would cover their butts by getting the parents signature in at least triplicate…I would think…so where’s the signed permission from the parents to do the interview/interviewssss??????

      • John Galt says:

        Or at least an audio recorded statement of parental permission.

      • jello333 says:

        Gutman gives ABC the tape, they broadcast it, some KKK type hears it and goes hunting for Dee Dee. He someway finds her, and tries to take her out. “16-yr-old” Dee Dee and her parents have never signed anything giving Gutman/ABC permission to broadcast the interview in the first place. It’s ABC’s fault Dee Dee was hunted down by the Klansman. MASSIVE lawsuit on the way.

        Does anyone seriously believe Gutman and ABC are this stupid?

  29. diwataman says:

    Doesn’t this guy have a case to be working on?

  30. justfactsplz says:

    It would be good to know what is in the latest discovery dump.

    • diwataman says:

      I’m still waiting on stuff from the first discovery dump. But are you talking about the states 12th supplemental? That’s the California deal with the phone yeah?

      • justfactsplz says:

        Yes, that one. Makes me want to scream when so much stuff is missing. Ping logs, full tox report, the list goes on and on. Do you have a list of SPD officers being deposed? There is a lady police officer I am interested in seeing if she was deposed. I see John from FDLE was deposed and that was a very important one.

  31. hooson1st says:

    Was Crump supposed appear on Piers Morgan last night?

  32. selfdefenseadvocate says:

    Anyone know who RT is? I’m thinking an employee of MOM? RT @gzdefensefund was behind that tweet.

  33. TonysThoughts says:

    I think there is 1 DD and she knew nothing of what happened (hense not calling police, parents, tweeting ect…, continuing on with her night). Crump and the scheme team needed more then that from her so they created this narrative. They know cell phone providers do not record conversations so they could plug anything in without anyone proving that it wasn’t said or heard. (my opinion) She agree’d, and tried to “help” with maybe a false promise from the scheme crew that they would make sure she is protected. I think she will say nothing anymore claiming that it traumatized her so bad she has tried to forget about everything. This will allow her BDLE depo to be used still. They needed more then what they had to accomplish their goal of charging GZ and they were going to get it one way or another. Of course now they will say there was confusion of her age early on but now they know her age and act like its no biggy. Without a “DD” there wasn’t much they could have done. So when they found the phone records they sat and schemed how they could make this work. We are digging into her too much when I believe nothing will come out of MOM/West DEPO. I still do not believe the phone they show from the scene pics is the phone he was using that night. I think that was on the porch with his left over goodies that he got from 7-11. Again totally my opinion.

    • mung says:

      Listen carefully to the cadence of the voice in the 2 recordings. I don’t think they are the same person.

      • TonysThoughts says:

        Yea I know what you guys are saying but after listening to all 7 parts over and over and the states full interview over and over, I think there are way more similarities then not. Bad recording verse good . I am not trying to persuade anyone just giving my thought, I would like a full .wav or .mp3 that I could load into my music program and try to clean it up. Maybe ill search for that. But I have listened carefully over and over, in case you felt that I have not.

        • TonysThoughts says:

          duh, I found it and will update you guys if I can get it a bit cleaner.

        • mung says:

          I was going to try to clean it up a bit too. Unfortunately the recording has a lot of clipping in it and so even if you can get rid of some of the background noise, the clipping is going to distort the sound. As I said before the big difference to me is the cadence. That is the most noticeable. DD1 is very harsh and has abrupt ends to her phrases. DD2 is more melodic and her phrases flow from one to the next.

          • TonysThoughts says:

            Yea the beginning of chumps recording is hard to do anything with, middle I can remove allot of the ambiance. There is a break when he say he will call her back. In that break I hear 3 different deep male voices and 1 more male who sounds softer (maybe she has a landline) and a female. If you listen closely to the “Yea”‘s that she says in both recordings they are the same. Also the pauses and the terrible spoken/broken english is almost exactly the same. Now he kept his recorder going when he said he was going to call her right back and you can here them talking. That tape is cut up ill put my house on it. There are missing parts or Cut parts, ironically he wants us to believe he shut off his recorder in the middle and restarts it but doesn’t do it when then say they are going to call her back? Im still running different Waves plugins trying to clean it better, but I stick to it being the same girl Bernie talked with.

            • TonysThoughts says:

              maybe even 2 females around the 4:20 mark of the audio from chump. besides Like most have already said this one and bernies does nothing but help GZ. Its because of sundance and you treepers that I am hooked on this case. haha Whats going on with it is so wrong I do not get how the whole world does not see it. Love the site and thanks guys.

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            Is it not possible, and likely, that DD was under the influence at the time she spoke to Crump over the phone on 3/19, (hence BDLR’s question at beginning of interview on 4/2) but would not dare show up stoned at an interview with a prosecutor when God knows how many cops will be there?

        • Tammy Jones says:

          There probably is just one DD, I agree. One possible way of finding out is see if the news station had written permission from her parents for the interview done with Crump. Parents should be the same for DD1 and DD2. Trayvon was on the phone with someone records show that but DD’s testimony is not believable. I’m not really worried about DD if she ever gets to the stand the defense will destroy her made up story. After listening to the state’s depo of DD I’m convinced O’mara doesn’t even need her facebook or twitter to discredit DD.

          • mung says:

            We don’t even know for sure that call ever took place. Hence the missing data from the phone. Until the Defense gets that data, it never happened.

  34. ottawa925 says:

    Sundance: “So who was on the phone for the mystery March 19th interview (Dee Dee) ?

    And who was the other older person who showed up on April 2nd to talk to the State?”

    THAT is why Crump’s Affidavit is not sufficient, and that is why he needs to be deposed.

    • partyof0 says:

      Let’s speculate how he could lie his way out of that one….he wasn’t at THAT depo…so he couldn’t confirm her identity…PLUS…he NEVER even saw the one he interviewed…IT was by phone ONLY….lets show some holes in those reasons…

      • justfactsplz says:

        In Bernie’s inteview of Dee Dee he mentions Crump who was there earlier.

      • boricuafudd says:

        He was at the April 2nd depo, Bernie even mentions him at the beginning of his depo with DD2. As to the, I never saw, have nothing for you on that one.

        • partyof0 says:

          If he can get away with being in the courtroom during the depo by saying “since I never met her the first time…how would I KNOW it was her on the stand in the States depo…this is the first time I ever seen her…how was I to know they wern’t the same witness”

          He has to have slipped up somwhere in that scenario….

          Hopefully there is NO plausible deniability here.

  35. Pingback: All this Dee Dee talk, “doxing” and blah, blah, blah | Still Self Defense, Still Not Guilty

  36. waltherppk says:

    Crump referred in publicity statements to his telephone interview with DeeDee as being an audio affidavit. At what point was the affiant “DeeDee” sworn and at what point was the affiant even identified by name as an actual person? It would seem imperative to know exactly who it is that would be offering any kind of affidavit, audio or otherwise, and to have some recorded affirmation that the information which they are providing under penalty of perjury, having been duly sworn by a notary is asserted to be the truth. An accurate and coherent recording of the alleged “audio affidavit” should also be made available by the person who made the recording along with a stenographic derived or audio derived written transcript performed by a certified court reporter. Otherwise I think the legal term for such an alleged “audio affidavit” is that it is pure bullshit so far as would be its evidentiary value other than perhaps its evidentiary value being an artifice for fraud.

    • John Galt says:

      Well said, and an interesting topic for a Crump deposition.

      • waltherppk says:

        Yeah absolutely, because as an officer of the court, Crump was functioning as a notary but was not following the rules concerning the execution of an “audio affidavit” so why is that such an important statement would be gotten absent the required formalities, and for this to be done with the news media in attendance ? This is a classic dog and pony show.

        • mung says:

          Smoke an mirrors. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

          • rumpole2 says:

            Please watch this right to the end – The ending is downright scary.

            • woohoowee says:

              It is downright unsettling! Thanks for the reminder.

            • Sharon says:

              And, in connection with the current discussion, if you don’t make a habit to turn your cell phone off, every location (within a few square feet) where you have been, and the time you were there and how long you stayed there, back to the day your phone # was assigned to you–IS available.

              At the end the phrase says “be vigilant”……what good is that going to do if a person starts to “be vigilant” now? It’s too bad nobody wanted to listen back in the day when the older generation talked about things being headed in this direciton and everyone laughed.

              The technology itself is not the problem: the problem is that clueless groups of people always want to believe the people who say, “Oh, it’ll really be used only for good.”

              Like Iran and the nuclear bomb.

            • jello333 says:

              In a Facebook group I’m in, awhile back we were all talking about stuff like this. And being the radicals we are ( ;) ) some of them started discussing how we need to be careful about what we say online, because even though our group was supposedly “secret” that didn’t really mean much. If someone wants to watch us, they’ll watch us. Well, just as everyone was beginning to feel more comfortable, because we’re “careful”, I freaked them out a bit. I mentioned “keyloggers”. You may already know what that is, but for others:

              It’s a small piece of software that runs in the background on a computer. It keeps track of every single keystroke you type. NOT just things that are input after you press “Enter”. But every keystroke AS you type it. There are some good uses for this, but clearly there are also some bad. And it’s VERY easy for one of those things to get surreptitiously installed on your computer. It’s a big, big internet out there, and any of the sites you’ve ever visited could have handed you this sweet little cookie. And it very well could be on your computer right now. And once it’s there, here’s one of the possible uses: It logs every keystroke you make (whether you’re online or offline doesn’t matter) for say a 24-hour period, and stores it in a little hidden file somewhere on your computer. Then, at some predetermined time, it UPLOADS that file to…. who knows where. And then it starts over again, with a new file set to be uploaded tomorrow, and so on. And the only way to prevent this is to stay offline altogether, because the first time you go online… zap, the file is uploaded.

              Now this MAY not be happening to everyone. Maybe only to a few “targeted” people… or maybe none at all. But really… is that really very likely? After all, what I’ve described is VERY doable, VERY easy to implement. All it requires is someone “out there” to have the desire to do it.


  37. mung says:

    BTW did anyone notice that Crump was very specific in the affidavit about the gun? Anyone else think he has plans to sue Kel-Tec?

    • rumpole2 says:

      You could be right. I am sure Crum has a very long list of potential suits. He just needs to get past this pesky Zimmerman case stuff… just past the immunity hearing will be sufficient.
      Justice for The Scheme Team…
      “All we wan is a trial” (That is, no self defence/SYG/Immunity)

  38. waltherppk says:

    Something interesting I just stumbled across on page 83 of 284 Discovery, regarding subpoena compliance for the phone records for the phone of “DeeDee” on April 2, 2012 which is the same day as BDLR took the “deposition” (statement) of “DeeDee”. Reference is made to an Excel Spreadsheet CDR 786-419-3726 (electronically maintained) which means it is a digital file evidence on an optical disk CD. It would be a fair guess that the numbers 786-419-3726 are the telephone number for “DeeDee” and that Excel Spreadsheet contains the ping logs for that phone. So the State had this information before the probable cause affidavit executed 9 days later. Also interesting on page 83 is the explanation or warning disclaimer for redaction which reads : “The information in this report contains information about a JUVENILE that may be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.” Hmmmm… “JUVENILE” ??????

    • waltherppk says:

      Hmmm…this is strange because that number prefix 786-419 associates with a land line
      in Miami-dade County
      All Zip Codes Served: 33128, 33136

      The complete number returns a search hit as a current valid user number associated with a name and address ….put the number (786)419-3726 in the search box here and it hits

      • mung says:
        No name listed but the address isxxxxxx Miami
        CTH does not allow publication of addresses of persons unknown. Admin

        • waltherppk says:

          Now that is very interesting ….maybe check with the tax office and see who owns that or maybe lives there

        • John Galt says:

          Provider Type: Landline ?

        • John Galt says:

          Zillow says no house on 15th St. gives same address with house on 16th St.

          School District assigned school = Miami Jackson Senior High

          Tax info:

          • tara says:

            According to the Miami-Dade Assessor, there is no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Do not do this, people. Since you have no idea who these individuals actually are or who lives in these homes and at these addresses, this is the same as what was done to Mr. and Mrs. Zimmerman (George’s parents). Think. Please. –Admin

            • diwataman says:

              Admin, Just have to say this, don’t take it the wrong way because I get it but I think it’s probably better to say postings of such nature could be attributed to the treehouse as similar to what people like Rosanne Barr and Spike Lee were doing posting addresses and such but it’s in no way the same in actuality. I have never seen one actual threat pointed to anyone on Trayvons side but I’ve seen plenty of threats pointed to people on George’s side.
              Does it not open up the possibility that someone who monitors CTH 24/7 to go to that address, cause trouble and bring down chaos on whoever lives there and then blithely point out that they got the information from CTH. In terms of the damage that could accrue to the CTH it is exactly the same as Roseanne Barr and Spike Lee. –Admin

            • tara says:

              Well, anyone can look up that info. But I respect your web site and am not at all offended that you blotted out the details. I won’t do it again. :)

      • mung says:
        Says it is MetroPCS. The number could have been ported though.

      • tara says:

        From that CTH thread, an image in which you can see the phone number, though blurry:

        I declare 100% match.

        • tara says:

          Who called Trademark at 7:04pm? Looks like 407 area code. Maybe that was Chad, Chad told investigators that he called Trademark and Trademark told him he was on his way home.

      • waltherppk says:

        No wonder I had a feeling of deja vu about this phone number ….yeah it is the same thing as was found 6 months ago and I had forgotten, then rediscovered the same thing. Sorry to rehash this.

        • tara says:

          I didn’t even see that thread back then, I only found it when I started hunting. So I’m glad that it was brought up again! And for all of the relative newcomers to this site, it’s just one more piece of info for them to digest.

          • waltherppk says:

            It seems likely that if the State did have the ping logs for the DeeDee phone several hours before BDLR interviewed her on April 2, 2012, the State also had the ping logs for the “heart” phone found with a dead battery at the scene and this does appear to be the phone of Trayvon if the chain of custody has been reported correctly. Having the ping logs for both phones the State would know to the second actual time for those calls connection, much greater accuracy than from billing records. And those accurate times from the ping logs could be overlaid precisely with the 911 calls to reconstruct the timeline within a few seconds accuracy. If there was a good match for these ping logs with the prosecution theory of the state it just seems very odd that the phone ping logs would not have been disclosed as an attachment to the probable cause affidavit, or within 20 days of the charging of Zimmerman. If the state is “betting the farm” on the “earwitness” DeeDee ….then why not give some credence to that witness by putting the cards on the table about the phone ping logs right from the start? Something else must be going on there with the times not quite matching up for the ping logs and the 911 calls timeline, and/or the GPS locations for TM and GZ not quite matching up with the prosecution theory of the state. If the forensic evidence was helping make the State’s case then why wouldn’t that phone evidence be made a key exhibit right from the beginning ? It seems reasonable to believe the forensic evidence provided by the ping logs is not helpful to the state.

            • justfactsplz says:

              They are not helpful to the state, yet Bernie goes ahead with the interview, a very botched interview. They bet on never having to produce those ping logs is what I think. They have dragged their feet giving discovery that is favorable to George.

              • waltherppk says:

                If the forensic evidence is not helpful to the state, it could very well mean and probably does mean that the forensic evidence impeaches the testimony of DeeDee, in which case the forensic evidence is going to have the greater weight. Forensic evidence carries more weight than testimonial evidence. For example if the ping logs show the call dropped 30 seconds or more before the witnesses in the corner townhouse heard loud voices, then DeeDee is discredited. If the GPS data show the “heart” phone end call location well away from the Tee then the witness DeeDee is discredited. If the GPS data for Zimmerman’s phone shows a track and GPS end call location supporting the account of Zimmerman then this also will discredit the witness DeeDee.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  Absolutely correct. This is why they have not been released. They never thought it would come to having to produce these ping logs. George was suppose to plea you know, especially after Shellie’s arrest. George put a ringer in it when he chose not to play that game and defend himself against this bogus charge. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, or squeals. I want to see that pig in lipstick squeal in anguish.

                  • waltherppk says:

                    Should it turn out that the testimony of the alleged “earwitness” DeeDee is excluded as plausible by the ping logs, and those ping logs were in the possession of the state who filed a probable cause affidavit anyway alleging a prosecution theory based upon that alleged earwitness, then the probable cause affidavit is proven to be fraudulent and this is a classic malicious prosecution where Brady Material was suppressed to enable continuance of a prosecution whose theory was discredited by the same evidence as suppressed. Malice is typically a quadruple multiplier for damage awards.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Every fiber in me believes this IS a malicious prosecution.

                  • jello333 says:

                    What do you wanna bet that Alan Dershowitz is sitting just dying to get involved in all this… well, assuming he’s not already involved. ;)

                  • waltherppk says:

                    It would be hilarious if Dershowitz filed a civil rights lawsuit against Corey for unlawfully under the color of authority interfering with his right to free speech by harassing and threatening his employer…..and Corey settled with a conditional provision she have nothing but nice things to say about Mr. Dershowitz in the future, or say nothing at all about him.

    • jello333 says:


      I haven’t gotten all the way through this thread yet, and so it may have already been mentioned. But there’s a page associated with that phone number, and it actually has a picture (and address) of a house. I was about to post the link, but thought I should check first.

  39. tara says:

    I was just thinking …. George told the police the evening of the incident as well as the following day that he had repeatedly called for help when Trademark was wailing on him. He couldn’t have known at that time that any of 911 calls included his yells, i.e., his statements to the police were unadulterated, and they are completely consistent with the evidence. As usual.

    The same cannot be said of Trademark’s relatives, who listened to the 911 calls and then were asked whether or not the yells were from Trademark.

    • mung says:

      Yes. He also said he hoped someone had video of it. Not something someone says if they are lying.

    • partyof0 says:

      HMMMM….I know I had not heard that one…very very good point….
      But….THEY hadn’t lawyered up yet…at least Tracy, while listening to the yells and saying it was not Trayvon..

    • tara says:

      According to page 1 of the 284-page bundle of docs, it appears George heard the 911 calls, or portions of them at least, for the first time on 2/29.

  40. jordan2222 says:

    DOJ and CRS are often mentioned here. Why and how are they involved in George’s case?

    • tara says:

      I thought DOJ was only involved because of the absurd hate crime investigation.

      Pardon my ignorance, but can someone please tell me what CRS is?

    • Sharon says:

      Here is one of the articles published about that earlier:

      If you put CRS in the search box, in the margin–above/right, there are several more articles which discuss this.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I do not remember that thread so thanks.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I wonder if they carry weapons:

        In their Navy blue windbreakers, polo shirts and dark sunglasses, they look like federal agents.

        Their caps are embroidered with the Justice Department’s seal. They watch and listen silently. But they say little publicly.

        When reporters try to chat them up, they remain stoic, saying simply they cannot talk to the media.

    • partyof0 says:

      CRS is part of the DoJ….actually instated to “quell” forthcoming riots from what I understand in the mid 60’s….Sundance mentioned them earlier and I noticed a motion for discovery by the defense for “all correspondence” with the CRS on this case. But if you go to their Website…ALL of their meetings are confidential…OK….how do you get through that?

      • sundance says:

        You go to Orlando and see exactly who the local contacts are. Then follow their association. Some of their activity is public, some hidden. The processes they follow are well outlined.

      • jello333 says:

        A lot of things are “confidential”, and so will never be made public. But that’s the key word… “public”. Like many other types of info, what’s allowed to become public, and what a CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER is allowed to see to help defend his client aren’t always the same. I know Sundance says everything about the CRS is secretive, and I’m sure that’s true. But does that mean even a defendant can’t get any info regarding what the CRS has been up to, if it’s necessary to prepare his defense? That doesn’t seem possible. It sounds almost like something a lawyer for a Gitmo prisoner would have to deal with.

        • boricuafudd says:

          Jello, the problem as I see it, even if confidential information is imparted on the Defense attorney, if he can’t use at trial, when that information would become public.

  41. HughStone says:

    It seems that Bruce Blackwell, Atty for Ben Crump, likes to invite to invite black UNDERAGE 17 year old high school girls to live in his house to be his “daughter” HMMMMMM. She is 32 right now.

  42. TonysThoughts says:

    This whole case banks on this Dee Dee Dee person and I bet you 10 RT’s of your choice that Bernie will not use his depo in court. It makes GZ ‘s case so much stronger. I know you have all decoded it in many articles and postings but gee wizz she does not help the state at all with what she states and has to be led to answer anything the way bernie wants her too. I am gonna catch carpal tunnel today, haha have not typed this much in a while. Have a fantastic night.

    • MJW says:

      Keep in mind that under the 6th amendment’s confrontation clause, the sworn interview isn’t admissible as a substitute for DeeDee’s live testimony.

  43. brutalhonesty says:

    crumps lawyer….it all makes sense…remember months ago when I posted a link to their own donation site that said “all funds will go to the trayvon martin defense fund”

  44. Chip Bennett says:


    Oh, one thing I wanted to correct, because a lot of us here still use the 300′ distance.

    “Brandi Green’s home (over 300 feet away from Zimmerman, at the sidewalk ‘T’) ”

    A few days ago when we were all talking about that, I measured it on Google maps. It’s actually over FOUR hundred feet. Which is kinda important, because that makes it even more unlikely George could have chased the wee child that far and then back up to the ‘T’ in the time available.

    I was speaking in terms of order of magnitude, and erring on the worst-case side, because I only really knew that it was “more than 100 yards”. But you’re right: it only further solidifies the point.

    Do you have an image that shows this distance? It would be really handy to have a reference.

    • diwataman says:

      She use to live in the third unit down right? I got 380 feet on Google maps from the T itself but of course it would be over 400 if he took off East of that of course by at least 21 feet which is possible.

      • diwataman says:

        Oh, forget part of that statement I made, I thought you were talking about going the other way when Trayvon first ran.

        I didn’t go back up and read what spurred this convo on but the idea of George chasing Trayvon North up that sidewalk towards the T is just absurd. You can’t have W8 and W2 at the same time, though Bernie would like to, because they conflict each other. Not only that but W2 is a mess and conflicted her own statement and signed the Trayvon petition, lol, what a mess Bernie thinks he can craft a conviction into, his only hope is a corrupt judge or stupid jury.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        Thanks, D-man!

        So, the straight-line distance is about the same, 380 feet.

        Now, from what I can tell from crime scene photos, Martin’s body was just slightly past the first of two, white, half-wall partitions? That distance is roughly… 30-35 feet from the sidewalk “T”.

        I just installed Google Earth to play with the measurements.

        Straight-line, along the sidewalk, Brandi Green’s home is 380 feet away from the “T”, and Martin’s body was about 32 feet away from the “T”.

        Factoring in the angles, Martin’s body was about 35 feet from the “T”, and about 350 feet from Brandi Green’s back door.

        Zimmerman ended his NEN call at 7:13:41. The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11 – exactly two and a half minutes later. Now, bearing in mind that the altercation was already in progress when the first 911 call came in, that means that significantly less than two and a half minutes elapsed from the time that Zimmerman ended his NEN call – still in the vicinity of the sidewalk “T” – to the time that the altercation started.

        It was raining, and Zimmerman had a bad back and no idea where Martin went. Even at a normal walking pace of 3 mph, and knowing exactly where to go, it would have taken Zimmerman about 172 seconds – or 2 minutes, 52 seconds – to walk the 380 feet to Brandi Green’s back door, and back.

        Let’s assume that the altercation went on for one minute before it had escalated and sustained long enough for neighbors to become alerted and concerned, and to dial 911. That leaves only one and a half minutes, or 90 seconds. Again, traversing a straight line there and back, Zimmerman would have had to have sustained an average pace of 6 mph – or a near-running speed – with a bad back, in the rain, at night, not knowing where he was going.

      • jello333 says:

        Nice job with the picture. But I thought Brandi’s apt was more toward the end of the building. You may be right. Still… only a few feet difference.

      • rumpole2 says:

        Thanks….. I’ll add it to my Map collection at RT

        • diwataman says:

          Don’t you want that in metric ;)

          • rumpole2 says:

            I was brought up on imperial measurements. At school I had a 12″ ruler. At work nuts and bolts were in imperial sizes.. lathe settings were in “thou” (thousandths of and inch) etc
            Even though NZ changed to metric decades ago I still use imperial units in everyday convo… that is what I have a mental picture of “half an inch” makes sense… “12.5 millimetres” means less
            I guess it’s another example of imprinting. :D

          • jello333 says:

            He still won’t even admit they drive backwards over there…

    • jello333 says:

      I just go to the neighborhood in Google Maps and zoom in (not sure this link already has it zoomed or not). Then I measure it using the scale, by literally marking it off on a scrap of paper I hold up to the monitor. ;) Probably pretty easy to screen cap the map and then draw a distance line on it, or something.

      deleted per request–admin

  45. tara says:

    Just doing some random reading and I was led to an old Mar 28 Radar Online article regarding DeeDee.

    Trayvon Martin‘s 17-year-old girlfriend was hospitalized the day after his wake when she learned that she was the last person to talk to him before he was fatally shot by George Zimmerman, is exclusively reporting.

    17-year-old? Also, I thought she was hospitalized the day of his wake, not the day after. Ronquavis Fulton told Nancy Grace that he met DeeDee at the funeral which was the day after the wake.

    “The day after his wake, Trayvon’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who had been conducting his own extensive investigation because cops had determined the shooting was in self defense, told Trayvon’s girlfriend she was the last person to talk to him,” a source close to the situation tells “[Tracy] had reviewed Trayvon’s cell phone bill and it was revealed that she was on the phone with him in the moments before Trayvon was shot.

    The wake and funeral were Mar 2 and Mar 3. Are they saying that Crump told DeeDee on Mar 3 that she was the last person to speak with Trademark? Not on Mar 18?

    “His girlfriend became absolutely inconsolable and had trouble breathing so her mother took her to a nearby hospital emergency room. She had never seen her daughter this upset before, ever. She had a battery of tests, including an EKG, and was there for over 12 hours. Doctors ultimately told her that she was going to be ok, but advised her mother to keep a close eye on her and try to minimize the stress around her.”

    So DeeDee had to be hospitalized because she found out that she was the last person to speak with Trademark? Not just because she was faced with the task of attending his wake and funeral? It would make more sense. Also, it would explain the glaring problem of DeeDee not telling anyone at the funeral that she had spoken with Trademark on Feb 26.

    Maybe this article is just full of errors, but right now my gut is telling me otherwise because it makes sense.

    • tara says:

      Another odd Radar Online article ….

      “Trayvon’s girlfriend was interviewed by the two district attorneys that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey appointed to the case,” a source tells “She was interviewed last week and her mother was present throughout. She was very forthcoming and had pertinent information to the investigation because she was the last person that talked to Trayvon before George Zimmerman shot and killed him. It was extremely emotional for her and her mother wanted to make sure it wasn’t too much for her. She would be a very compelling witness for the state of Florida if criminal charges are filed against George Zimmmerman.”

      Why would her mother be present? DeeDee was 18, right? Is it normal for a witness to have a parent present? Also, why wasn’t the mother mentioned in the Apr 2 report? The investigators only mentioned having trouble finding DeeDee, but then they did locate her. No mention of a parent.

      “The day after his wake, Trayvon’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who had been conducting his own extensive investigation because cops had determined the shooting was in self defense, told Trayvon’s girlfriend she was the last person to talk to him,” a source close to the situation told “Benjamin had reviewed Trayvon’s cell phone bill and it was revealed that she was on the phone with him in the moments before Trayvon was shot.”

      Very similar to the prior article, except with the addition of the “Benjamin” comment. Who would call him “Benjamin”? Nasty, perhaps? And why is Crump given credit for the discovery here? At his press conference he stated that Tracy discovered DeeDee on Mar 18. Again, did the Radar Online or the “source” just get all of the facts wrong or did Crump actually talk to DeeDee on Mar 2 or Mar 3?

      • tara says:

        Missed this part in the second article:

        “From Trayvon’s girlfriend’s meeting with prosecutors she got the impression that she might not be called to testify before the grand jury because Zimmerman might be arrested and charged before then. If she is needed to testify in front of the grand jury though she absolutely will,” the insider says.

        She got the impression that she might not be called to testify? Isn’t it more likely she accepted a deal? She talked to investigators in exchange for not testifying before a grand jury? That would probably compel a reluctant witness — or her ringer — to talk to BDLR.

      • eastern2western says:

        where is the record of this interview? according to the report, dd was interviewed by two das, but the de la rionda interview was with one da. Where the f happened to this interview?

      • tara says:

        Oh I see, she was pressured with a subpoena.

        [Trademark] was on the phone with his girlfriend as Zimmerman began to follow him, and because she is a minor, isn’t disclosing her name. The Sanford Police Department never questioned Trayvon’s girlfriend, even though her parents contacted the cops to tell them she wanted to come in for a sit down interview.

        What? DeeDee’s parents contacted police?? When did this happen?

        “Trayvon’s girlfriend has been told that the Florida State Attorney’s Office has prepared a subpoena for her to appear in front of the grand jury. She has hired a lawyer to advise her and make sure that her rights are protected. Her attorney has told prosecutors that she is ready to appear and is looking forward to telling the grand jury what really happened on February 26,” a source close to the situation tells

        The article has a date of Mar 23 but the subpoena wasn’t formally issued until Mar 28, I think. They gave DeeDee some extra time to think, or negotiate.

        • John Galt says:

          “The Sanford Police Department never questioned Trayvon’s girlfriend, even though her parents contacted the cops”

          Note that DD #1 has parents, plural. DD#2 lives with her mother.

        • jordan2222 says:

          I have never heard this before:

          The Sanford Police Department never questioned Trayvon’s girlfriend, even though her parents contacted the cops to tell them she wanted to come in for a sit down interview.

          My questions are the same as yours:

          What? DeeDee’s parents contacted police?? When did this happen?

          • John Galt says:

            “What? DeeDee’s parents contacted police?? When did this happen?”

            And why isn’t there a police report documenting such contact? I’m skeptical.

          • jello333 says:

            I’ll join you and Tara: ???!!!

            • jordan2222 says:

              Total news to me. Who knows what the people say?

              • boutis says:

                Her parents called SPD to arrange an interview and she was eager to talk or the Crump story that she was afraid of the cops and didn’t and the Martins had to convince to to do it. Which is it? Perhaps the parent(s) need to make statements too about contacting SPD and if the Crump/Martins changed their minds and what was said to her/them.

  46. brutalhonesty says:

    obama, scott, wilson, and sharpton’s images grace this page

  47. eastern2western says:

    I had always though that zimmerman does not need a lot of specialist to win this because all of the work is done by the sanford police department. in serrino’s report, it clearly states the screams are from zimmerman and there is another cop who heard tracy’s confession. Then there is also the bloody photos, medical report and emt report. basically every thing supports zimmerman’s story except for the martin family. However, the martin’s worst mistake is that they went on every television station and declared that they would not rest until zimmerman is convicted for the murder of trayvon. Those interviews have pratically made them into prejudicial witnesses and will exclude anything comes out of them and that includes dd too.

  48. recoverydotgod says:

    Phone call reveals final moments of slain Florida teen: lawyer
    By Barbara Liston
    ORLANDO, Florida | Tue Mar 20, 2012


    Family lawyer Ben Crump said the girlfriend’s testimony shed new light on the killing and would show that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black.

    “This confirms that Trayvon Martin was killed only because he was a young black man who was profiled by Zimmerman,” Crump told Reuters.

    Phone records show the girl, who Crump would not identify because she is a minor, had been talking to Martin off-and-on all day on February 26, and can provide convincing evidence that he was behaving normally, Crump said.

    “Her call connects the dots to completely destroy what Zimmerman said (to the police) about ‘this kid was up to no good,'” Crump said. “This kid was simply trying to walk home and get out of the rain while he talked to his little friend. And that’s all he was doing. He was completely innocent.”


  49. arkansasmimi says:

    Well tomorrow is Friday. Seems like thats when stuff is filed in this case. Wondering what tomorrow wil bring :)

  50. justfactsplz says:

    It seems the local media’s interest in the case has picked back up. Tomorrow night on Orlando t.v. Channel six has a special piece with Tony Pipitone. They are taking hoodies, shirts, and a gun like George’s to a forensic specialist and shoot holes in it recreating the holes in the shirts. It should be interesting what their conclusion will be. It will probably be a written article on Click also. The lead in says what they find out goes against what you have been told for a year. Hope it is in George’s favor. I have seen subtle changes in the media’s attitude locally.

    • John Galt says:

      “It should be interesting what their conclusion will be.”

      Hoodies don’t stop 9 mm pistol rounds.

      • justfactsplz says:

        They sure don’t but they get a hole for their trouble.

        • dmoseylou says:

          “The lead in says what they find out goes against what you have been told for a year.”

          The autopsy told me the truth a year ago Re: the bullet and clothing. IMO, unfortunately several other critical statements and graphics in that same report did NOT tell the truth; some procedures / protocols were omitted.
          I believe the entire DD fiasco is the most important and primary focus of the investigation. I also believe MOM / WEST are “connecting the dots” on several aspects of the case: TM’s school / school police records, autopsy, social media, the 7-11, videos along the route from the 7-11 to the RTL. These other investigations will serve to bolster the criminality of the Scheme Team and the State prosecution.

          “Patience is a virtue,” but Where Is The Tox Report?!?

          • justfactsplz says:

            I know patience is a virtue but oh, Lord give me patience! I think my main point in my comment that I wanted to make is their is a slight shift in the media in George’s favor unless the report comes out not in his favor. West is connecting the dots. There will be evidence to go along with the school, police record, that will show Trayvon’s tendencies to violence. Hopefully there will be a full tox report and the pictures of Trayvon’s hands. Social media was copied before it was taken down but they need it from the actual sites themselves in order to use them for evidence. The 7-11 video I am still out to lunch on. In the beginning I believed it to be fake. There are not cameras in that store that video like that tape came out. So we shall see and we shall prevail. Free George Zimmerman now!

            • Sharon says:

              Sometimes I find it helpful to remember when thinking about patience as a virtue–that patience may also be described as a choice. That has a bit of a sting to it because it reminds me that my impatience is “my choice”… Too often, I’m afraid that patience is seen to be a feeling that is supposed to well up from within, and to the extent that we believe that, it complicates the business of experiencing patience. Patience is a choice: it means I choose to be willing to wait.

              …and that doesn’t mean it’s easy. If it was easy, everyone would do it. ;)

              • justfactsplz says:

                Yes it is a choice and not a feeling. That is empowering to know we have choices for the better. Thanks for reminding me.

                • dmoseylou says:

                  “Patience is a choice.” My choice, my decision. I like that—thank you!
                  As I stated, I have a patience problem with the autopsy; I want those answers to my questions. I want to see the results that should have been in the 1st discovery released by the State. I may have missed it (tho I do not believe so,) but I have not read any article addressing the glaringly blatant misinformation, errors, omissions, and breach of protocol presented in that autopsy. Kudos to MOM / WEST that they deposed the ME and staff very early in their depo line-up. THAT spoke volumes to me—I am certain they must have retained a forensic pathologist early in the case to review that report.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I have read before when you went into detail about the autopsy. It sounds like they did a shoddy job of it. Do you think we got the full report or a shortened one? My problem with the autopsy is the minor injury they found to Trayvon’s hands. Pictures were taken of Trayvon’s hands and they were messed up from hitting George. Come on! The funeral director also lied about his hands.

                  • jello333 says:

                    “Pictures were taken of Trayvon’s hands and they were messed up from hitting George.”

                    Yeah, I’ve heard that a couple times. I assume it’s something you or others know by talking to people involved in the case, right? I mean, I haven’t seen that officially announced anywhere, in discovery, etc. But either way, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Not so much that his hands would be damaged just from the direct hits on George…. I’m thinking more about the sidewalk. As he kept pushing George back down, I can imagine his hands slipping off and scraping the sidewalk.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Of course they will publicly not release those pictures but nothing in discovery has mentioned them. They showed George those pictures at the police station and he got sick at his stomach. I had not thought about the concrete but that makes perfect sense.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    What pictures did he see?

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Pictures of Trayvon’s hands.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    What did he say?

                    Seems to me the pics of his hands would show their condition.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Yes they were graphic. He got sick at his stomach from what I was told. I cannot begin to imagine those grueling days of interviews and tests he willfully submitted himself too. Poor George. I admire him and his family so much for the way they have handled everything.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Wonder where those pics are now?

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    The ME got the wrong shoulder for the scar and the wrong upper arm for the tatoos. In BOTH the body graph and written report! He / She got THOSE wrong?!? Something so blatantly obvious in pics of TM?!? How can anyone accept anything else diagrammed or written?
                    Hands? Bruising? Wha…?

  51. ottawa925 says:

    Letter sent by Robert Zimmerman, Jr. to Congresswoman Frederica Wilson:

    • jello333 says:

      “Your constituents, as well as Americans generally should be concerned about your ability to carry out your duties objectively.”

      Wow. You know, Bobby should run for office… in fact, he should run for this slimy woman’s seat! And if he does, I might just have to move to Florida for the pleasure of voting for him… or maybe even working in his campaign.

    • LittleLaughter says:

      Excellent letter from RZ. I am continually outraged that public officers, paid with tax dollars, continue to espouse such blatant and outlandish fabrications based on emotion and fear mongoring to advance their own selfish and immoral agendas with a total disregard to the obligation and sworn oath they took to uphold the constitution. Even more disgusting are the insane-O-botts that continue to vote for their lying arses.

    • justfactsplz says:

      Excellent. Thank you Bobby for putting pink cowboy hat in her place. Bravo!

    • John Galt says:

      Very nice letter, but well over Frederica Wilson’s head.

    • eastern2western says:

      that mat hatter will not listen to any one except her own people.

  52. brutalhonesty says:

    Can we get someone to introduce and sponsor this???
    Honoring the life of George Zimmerman, urging the confirmation of Stand Your Ground laws, and calling on the United States Government to address the crisis of racial profiling of whites as racists.

    Whereas Trayvon Martin would have celebrated his 18th birthday on February 5, 2013;

    Whereas on February 26, 2012, Trayvon Martin, an African-American youth, was justifiably shot and killed while left unattended in Sanford, Florida, because he was assaulting George Zimmerman;

    Whereas Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, admitted to police that he shot Martin in the chest in self defense;

    Whereas George Zimmerman was racially profiled, stalked, hunted, made to fear for his life, and ultimately defended himself;

    Whereas a bloodied Zimmerman raised a ‘self-defense’ claim and Martin, as the deceased perpetrator, had no injuries whatsoever;

    Whereas a police officer is allowed to discharge his or her weapon in self defense, and a private citizen should be allowed to the same right to self preservation with regard to the use of deadly physical force;

    Whereas Trayvon Martin’s brutal assault on george and the inconceivable fact that George remains in hiding due to racist threats from blacks, should not be ignored;

    Whereas over 2,200,000 signatures have been collected on an online petition demanding justice for Martin’s family based on the assumption george was a white racist and so are the cops;

    Whereas Trayvon Martin’s unfounded assumptions and racial bias led to the use of deadly force;

    Whereas Travyon Martin was a victim of the Black Grievance Industry and democrat policies regarding letting Blacks get away with more than their white counterparts;

    Whereas this case sets a horrific precedent of vigilante justice and compromises the integrity of the legal system;

    Whereas Florida’s Persecution of George Zimmerman has been criticized by both the legal and law enforcement communities;

    Whereas Alan_Dershowitz, the youngest full professor of law in its history.Dershowitz has been described by Newsweek as America’s “most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer and one of its most distinguished defenders of individual rights.”, has declared the probable cause affidavit and subsequent persecution of George Zimmerman to be a ‘crime,’ “If there are riots, it will be the prosecutor’s fault because she overcharged, raised expectations,” Dershowitz said. “This prosecutor not only may have suborned perjury, she may be responsible, if there are going to be riots here, for raising expectations to unreasonable levels.”

    Whereas over 20 States have passed and implemented Stand Your Ground laws;

    Whereas Stand Your Ground laws dramatically and correctly expand the right of citizens to use deadly force, and have been the subject of national scrutiny in the wake of the Liberal agenda using Trayvon Martin’s death; and

    Whereas Stand Your Ground laws are opposed by organizations, corporations, and individuals that ignored advice from experts explaining that such laws would enhance public safety, proportionately protect communities of un-color, and would result in fewer thugs getting away with their knock out games: Now, therefore, be it

    Resolved, That the House of Representatives–

    (1) Affirms reliance on Stand Your Ground laws to protect actions that extend far beyond historical use of self-defense;

    (2) urges any State legislature to affirm or propose further Stand Your Ground legislation;

    (3) commits to developing incentives for States to enact Stand Your Ground legislation such as grants for community policing and gun training for gun owners;

    (4) encourages States to create penalties for individuals found to have caused substantive harm through reverse racial profiling; and

    (5) urges the United States Commission on Civil Rights to seek to elevate the social status of Black men and boys by undertaking studies to understand and correct the underlying causes of higher rates of school expulsions and suspensions, homicides, incarceration, poverty, violence, drug abuse, as well as income, health, and educational disparities among Black males….their own cultural race based choices.

    • justfactsplz says:

      Can you imagine a congressman receiving that proposal? ROFLMBO

      • waltherppk says:

        Congresswoman Pink Cowboy Hat would be tickled pinkless to sponsor that, call it the Thug Mansion for Trayvonites Bill :D

        • justfactsplz says:

          See the link posted recently at the bottom of the thread about Robert Zimmerman’s open letter today to Pink Cowboy Hat. It is sooo good!

        • justfactsplz says:

          Somebody just posted on this or the other thread about Robert Zimmerman Jr.’s open letter today to Pink Cowboy Hat. It is sooo good. I can’t find it now, must be getting tired. I hope you see it. It is an excellent read.

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