01-22 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

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345 Responses to 01-22 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    Short and simple today

    Papapi: “No worries. I have an archive of every single @rzimmermanjr tweet”

    What on earth do they think this will achieve?

    As mentioned, stalking RZ’s twitter postings now dominate the discussion on the GZ case…… why?

    RZ is a supporter of his brother of course, but he is not part of the case. Not a witness,

    Yet the Traybots stalk his twitter account, copy and paste to their forum along with their own potty mouthed puerile replies. Then wonder why he blocks some of them.

    What possible value do they think, Papapinhead’s copy will be? It would not be a certified copy anyway so of no evidentiary value, and besides… evidence of WHAT exactly?

    If they really want to archive tweets I would suggest the complete works of NatJack or Bigboithedog (and the associated dog pack) might be worth saving…. As a testament to the nasty rabid posting that has gone on, and as potential evidence in future civil actions.

    Random Topics

    • rumpole2 says:

      Tweet, tweet, tweet
      Tweet, tweedle-lee-DeeDee

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Including the admission of archiving all of his tweets, their public harassment of him via Twitter, and their public and private hatred, bigotry, and slander against him, Robert Zimmerman may be near to having grounds for a restraining order against some of these people.

      Their obsession with him is simply sick.

      • rumpole2 says:

        This new “game” of stalking twitter accounts and all the abuse on twitter, and that brought back to a forum, is new to me. It never happened at JQ when I was there. Tweets were a source of information.. during a hearing for instance… put this pack hunting and stalking is new.
        The “new crowd” at JQ have brought it with them. Unfortunately Ma Baker has been co-opted… she joined Bigboi’s Twitter gang. She is at least ashamed and has hidden her account.
        If Baker comes to her senses along with Toby and Amra, they might be well advised to “take out the Twitter Trash” and start down the road of regaining some credibility at JQ.

    • Sha says:

      I don’t use twitter but I have a relative that does and I look in on RZ Jr from time to time when shes around. I am shocked by all the things that people say to him. I wont every foul mouth person who spews all that hate at him to know that when it comes back to bite you on your butt you did it to yourself . They will never be blessed or find peace in there lives saying the kinds of things they do to him or anyone else . It say’s alot about there character and how they were raised to see the things they say so cruelly. I am proud of RZ Jr for not letting them lower him to there level. I will not get a twitter account because I’m older and meaner than he is and I wouldn’t wont to embarrass him by telling a few of them about themselves.

    • jello333 says:

      Don’t you get it? A few days ago, Bobby went on a radio talkshow. The host of that show turned out to be a bit of a racist. (Nevermind the fact that Bobby didn’t know about that in advance.) So that makes Bobby a racist, which of course, in turn, makes George a racist. Therefore George will get NOTHING from the NBC lawsuit (since they were only telling the truth about George). Oh, and it’ll also cause the FBI to re-open the civil rights investigations against George. Oh wait, I forgot the most important fact of all: George, Bobby, and the whole family, plus of course their legal team, have said good things about us here at the Treehouse! And seeing how we’re nothing but a bunch of night riders…. well, what’s that say about George et al?!!!

      See? It’s simple, really.

      • Sha says:

        jello:It is simple … They are the racist ! I will never try to explain to them why i am not racist…..just because someone calls you something doesn’t make it so . RZ Jr doesn’t owe one dang one of them anything , much less an explanation as to anything he does. They are hateful, cruel, half raised hethens who need to worry about all the wrong they have done in there life before they start to judge other people . I don’t see a single saint in the bunch do you ? I dont like to trash people because I think it is wrong …….but they sure as heck need a dose of there own medicine and if they catch me on a off day I might give it to them.

        • justfactsplz says:

          Bobby is a class act and I am so proud how he has represented George. He is well spoken and has done a good job for his brother. We need to add Bobby to our prayers. He is enduring so much hatred.

        • jello333 says:

          Yep, I know exactly how you feel. Sometimes when I go skim through their Twitter posts, I come THIS close to responding…. responding with something really nasty. But so far, I’ve been able to control myself long enough to close the page and just walk away.

  2. joeyp1 says:

    It seems to me that a very large percentage of TM supporters (the remaining) are getting more desperate by the second, mostly thanks to the fine people here.
    I truly appreciate the meaningful conversation, thoughts, facts, and The search for the truth, from the Treepers, and guests.
    Keep up the great work, as me and my Bud Becca Hennessy appreciate it very much.

    • justfactsplz says:

      It really is a great sight. Sundance and his crew run a top notch website with a good variety of topics. By the way, I love your avatar.

    • libby says:

      They never wanted justice in the first place (it was all about the money and fomenting hate for white people); They wanted a lynching.

  3. joeyp1 says:

    Okay Mark Omara, We know you have it in ya’ .. Bring it on, “brotha'”
    This is my favorite video involving the case ..
    “Moe Larry, and…. ?? ”

    • diwataman says:

      Cool, thank you, one of my favs too. O’Mara is such a smart ass, one of the few things I do like about him, lol. Gilbreath not admitting to the word “racial” truly shows how disingenuous the prosecution is. He knows damn well that’s the word that comes to mind but he refuses to answer it, what a jerk.

      • howie says:

        He may not have been allowed to use it. After all Lester said they were supposed to be tamping this thing down.

      • janc1955 says:

        I also loves how Gilbreath repeats EVERY single question O’Mara asks him. He should know that’s a standard and transparent attempt to buy time before answering, and a clear indicator someone is not being forthcoming. Jerk.

      • debfrmhell says:

        I couldn’t figure out why he didn’t just say CRIMINAL. He has been in the business for what some 25-30 years? I take it he has profiled one or two people during that time and race would have nothing to do with it.

    • tara says:

      Great video. The “confronted” segment (at 1:34) is my favorite.

      • John Galt says:

        Confronting = meeting

        Wow, never knew that.

        accost, affront, beard, brave, call one’s bluff, come up against, dare, defy, encounter, face down, face up to, face with, flout, front, go one-on-one, go up against, make my day, meet, meet eyeball-to-eyeball, oppose, repel, resist, scorn, stand up to, tell off, withstand


    • nameofthepen says:

      Yummy little “collection”, D-man! Sarcasm/satire can be SO effective at times. :D

    • partyof0 says:

      I noticed that LLmpapinfresh said to notice what this guy (Gilbreath) said…”We have TM’s body, the shell casing and GZ’s statements”.
      You’d think everything was 50 yards apart according to him…
      Don’t know much about guns….but the shell could have been kicked afterwards by anyone going thru the scene…could have landed on GZ and when he got up, it fell a little further away from the actual shooting or could have ejected from the gun a pretty good distance….
      LLmpapinfresh is so knowledgeable, he should be on the witless list…as an “exspurt”…

      Also…about the crime scene…TM’s body was turned and laying on it’s side (according to the grainey black and white photo)…was it not or am I mistaken?…so if it was on it’s side, isn’t CPR given to someone on their back in ANY case or would it have been different with this wound?

    • jordan2222 says:

      The case should have been dismissed immediately. There is not even statute referenced that would indicate George broke any law by “profiling” Martin. If there is, I have yet to see it.

      I guess it’s too late now but someone should have immediately challenged the affidavit. I am still waiting for the State to produce some bombshell evidence that George committed any kind of crime.

      No one shows any common sense whatsoever and, worse yet, no one abides by the rules, especially those that pertain to discovery. This is a bad movie at best.

    • eastern2western says:

      allen dershowitz did another interview with her and he stated that zimmerman still has traditional self defense even if he was the initial aggressor. However, these stupid trayvonites would much rather listen to al sharpton than a professional.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      I originally thought that the Kohls video was to confirm Big TM’s story, he said he took TM and his cousin to buy a jacket or sweatshirt at Kohls. It seemed like an odd thing to check, so now it makes sense.

    • howie says:

      There are two ways to use a video.
      1. What the video shows at a certain time.
      2. What the video does not show at a certain time.

    • tara says:

      Is it possible that GZ’s defense is looking for evidence of Trademark engaging in suspicious activity to corroborate GZ’s assessment ? Maybe they’ll catch Trademark looking in or trying the doors of parked cars, drinking or doing drugs, ditching his drugs, etc.

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      Some time ago I did a photo set on the Lakes Edge video.

      • howie says:

        If none of the videos show T-con at all during the time frame then what they do not show can be evidence. Proof that at least one state scenario did not occur. It would show that T-con did not end up at the short cut via a certain route. Thus he would have only gotten there by another.

      • howie says:

        Just for fun imagine he was driven home. Then left home to get to the short cut. Or any of a lot of different things. If DD is on record with a route and it is proven false her whole story is toast.

    • jordan2222 says:

      Another great job, DMan. I think you know that O’Mara likes your work.

      • diwataman says:

        Yeah but I bet he hates my guts too, lol.

        • jello333 says:

          He’s just jealous that you’ve got nicer pinky rings than he does.

          • howie says:

            I found a Men’s pinky ring metal detecting a while ago. It had a 3/4 carat blue diamond in it. :) I hope he goes to the becah for Spring Broke!

          • libtardh8r says:

            My parents married in New York City in 1948. They were both first generation Americans. My maternal grandfather did not approve of my dad. He was a furrier who was born in Austria. He gave my father a white gold ring with 3 diamonds surrounded by sapphire baguettes. The ring came with a proclamation that no matter what happened, my father could always sell the ring to take care of my mom.

            My father wore that ring on his right pinky finger every day I can remember until the day he died in 2004. It is his only possession that I have a sentimental attachment to. My mother couldn’t bear to part with the ring until about 2 years ago. It currently resides in my safety deposit box. I am going to have it resized for my left ring finger for when I marry my current GF, the love of my life.

            Wearing a pinky ring says nothing abut MOM’s abilities as a lawyer. I realize it’s not a good fashion choice, but profiling someone based on their choice of digital adornment seems unfair.

            • howie says:

              I do not think people understand how all this works. I am just beginning to.

            • jello333 says:

              Oh man… you didn’t think I was serious, did you? No way. It’s just we have a running joke going on at the Treehouse. Sundance likes to point out that MOM wears pinky rings (and rides a Harley… VROOM VROOM!), and so some of us just play along. I doubt even MOM himself cares. After all, as some have pointed out, the guy has a pretty wicked sense of humor/sarcasm when he chooses to use it.

              So… ok? We’re just messin’… ;)

        • hooson1st says:

          Another note of caution. My reading of yesterday’s inauguration speech leads me to fear that legislation against defamation of pinkie ring wearers may be in the offing.

        • jordan2222 says:

          Why do you say that? Last time I contacted him about something you posted at your blog, he thanked me and even answered my question. There are others who have a high opinion of you, too. I have assumed that you know that because they mention you by name.

          • howie says:

            Ahhh Dunno. All I know is that George has so much more representation behind him than most criminal defendants. He is a lucky one. Most black defendants just ride the train.

            • jello333 says:

              True, but not just black. Also poor white (poor ANY color) defendants. Not only is the average public defender overloaded with cases, but he/she also doesn’t have ANYWHERE NEAR the resources that the prosecutors/state has. And 99% of the time, the prosecutors have the cops working hand-in-hand with them. So in some ways, yeah… as bad as this is, in some ways George is kinda lucky.

          • diwataman says:

            Well let’s just say me and him see the world in completely different ways.

            • jordan2222 says:

              He doesn’t have to like you to respect the work you do that I suspect saves him a lot of time and money and maybe even points him in a direction he had not fully considered.

    • tara says:

      Just want to add that on Apr 2 Brandy told investigators that she thought Feb 26 was the first time Trademark had walked to that 7-11. (See page 32 of the 284-page discovery doc bundle.) Chad told investigators that Trademark had walked to the 7-11 one other time, the Thursday prior to the shooting. (See page 39).

      Cousin Stephen (“Boobie”) described retracing Trademark’s path. I had seen the Esquire article before and commented on it, but looking at it again tonight I see info I had not seen before regarding the path Trademark had taken. If he’d walked to the 7-11 only once or twice before, Boobie must have been with him, and probably Chad too since Chad would know the route. Here’s a summary of the route from the Esquire article:

      pass the Trustco Bank
      walk along the 6-lane road
      take the sidewalk for the Lake’s Edge development
      take the dirt path in the grass
      go past the Colonial Village billboard
      enter the driveway to the Colonial Village complex
      take the shortcut to the Retreats
      slip through the opening (in the fence?)
      walk across open lawn between two buildings
      enter the Retreats main street


      And now I need to consult a map ….

      • diwataman says:

        The path I have marked on my map is exactly as they describe in the article. Which is the most logical path really. I don’t need boobie to tell me that, lol.

        • tara says:

          Good! I looked at your map after I posted my message, but it was so late I wasn’t able to identify every component of the path. Had you seen the article or did you just figure it out from other sources? If the latter, then you have this extra confirmation.

          • tara says:

            OK, I have carefully traced the path mentioned in Esquire, and I only disagree with the path on your map at the point where Trademark would have entered the Retreats. I’m sure it doesn’t matter, but I’ll be thorough here:

            And there it is up ahead, the shortcut back into the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Coming from this direction on foot, there’s no question it’s the quickest way to go. Later they’ll put up a sign: PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESPASSING VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED and a series of little arbor poles for foliage to grow on, but even then they’ll leave a gap big enough for a man to slip through. For Trayvon, it’s a straight shot down an open lawn, between two buildings and onto the Retreat’s main street.

            If he entered the Retreats at the poles, then your yellow path line should be moved up one building, if you know what I mean, between the building that is parallel to the road and then the next one to the west which is positioned diagonally. Esquire is vague about the path once inside the community. Did Trademark walk along Retreat View Circle or on the sidewalk leading to the pool ? I guess he walked on the street, else he would have appeared on the pool security video.

            I just realized that the Esquire article implies that GZ saw Trademark pretty much as soon as Trademark entered the community, before he reached the clubhouse. Once again I’m amazed by the inaccuracies, small details like this have a big impact. It implies that GZ targeted Trademark simply because he was walking along the street, when in fact GZ targeted Trademark because Trademark was hanging out at the clubhouse looking shady. Who would hang out at the closed clubhouse when it’s raining? I would have watched him too! But Esquire’s article helped to brainwash the public into thinking that Trademark was *profiled*.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              ‘ It implies that GZ targeted [Martin] simply because he was walking along the street, when in fact GZ targeted [Martin] because [Martin] was hanging out at the clubhouse looking shady.’

              Audio of Zimmerman’s statements to SPD.

              2/26-1, 10:28-42
              Zimmerman: And like I said, I saw him walking in the neighborhood, the same, in front of the same house that I had called the police before, to come to because this guy leaves his doors unlocked and stuff.

              2/26-2, 0:27-35
              Singleton: OK. Can you put an “X” on here, where you first saw the guy?
              Zimmerman: Right, right about here.

              A B&W photocopy of the map has been released. I’ve posted an enlarged section, showing the location marked by Zimmerman.

              The location is between 1460 and 1510, about even with the porch roofs of 1460 and the other units of the same building.

              Reenactment, 0:00-0:21
              Smith: . . . pick him up at?
              Zimmerman: Right here. Right in front of this house.
              Smith: OK. Right in front of 1460?
              Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

  4. tara says:

    Not really related to this case, but for those of you who live in nice parts of the US that don’t have vast ghetto wastelands, I invite you to drive around the Englewood neighborhood in the south side of Chicago. A good starting point is 6000 S Racine Ave Chicago, IL 60636. Plug the address in to Google maps, zoom down to the street view, spin around and soak in the ambiance, and then head east on West 60th.

    What amazes me is just how many neighborhoods like this one exist in Chicago, and in 10 years they haven’t gotten any better. The economy has nothing to do with it. There’s a total lack of care there. They’ll spend money on late model cars, satellite dishes, liquor, weaves and nails, and expensive gym shoes, but they won’t lift a finger to clean up their yards or repair their homes. They’ll stand out in the streets or on their porches all day long but refuse to stand in front of a grill or cash register to earn some pay. I first saw this kind of environment when I was in Detroit, and I had sympathy for the residents. After I moved to Chicago that all changed. No sympathy now. You reap what you sow. The Dems make it all possible, taking our hard-earned money and turning around to give it to the scum. These are not people in need, these are people who need to be cut off, kicked in the *ss, and forced to work to support themselves like the rest of us do.

    • tara says:

      I was going to drive around (via Google street view) one of Trademark’s old neighborhoods. I had too look up the address of one of Sybrina’s houses in the Dade County public records. She was presumably ejected, there was a foreclosure with final judgement in December 2008. Why on the mortgage and foreclosure documents is “University of Miami” listed as a co-owner? And “other defendants” ? In the final judegment there’s a line item for “Service of Process at $45.00 per Defendant”, and the sum is $135 therefore the number of defendants was four. Sybrina, U of Miami, and two others. I’m quite sure Sybrina alone inherited that house free and clear when her mother died, there’s a quit claim deed and no mortgage at the time of the transfer, only subsequent mortgages which I’m assuming are refinancing. It looks like she took out a total of $170k from this property that was, at best, worth less than $100k, and then in the end she walked away. What the h*ll is going on here ????

    • partyof0 says:

      When everyone was leaving the inauguration yesterday…I don’t know why I noticed…but there was so much trash on the grounds with plenty of trash bins around…I was pretty shocked…maybe that’s the way it’s been with every inauguration….

      • mcfyre2012 says:

        And yet after Tea Party rallies, the areas are clean afterwards…

      • ytz4mee says:

        Nope. The first time the Mall was left in such a disgusting state was after the first Inauguration of teh Won.

        There were many more people at the Tea Party rallies, and the Mall was left tidier than it was when they arrived. Same for the Glen Beck rallies. In fact, that actually enraged the Unionistas, because picking up your own trash is apparently “denying” trashcollectors overtime pay.

    • lovemygirl says:

      The first time I was truly nervous was when I took a girl into Chicago to go to a nice restaurant bordering a rough area and made a wrong turn. Burnt out buildings, stripped cars, boarded up businesses, groups of people just hanging around. We rolled up the windows, locked the doors and I didn’t stop completely for any red lights until I found my way back to a main highway.

    • tara says:

      Here’s another good one. Here are our tax dollars at work. When you provide free housing and food and don’t require people to work, they’re free to just sit around all day or, worse, engage in gang activities. Garfield Park neighborhood, 3299 West Maypole Chicago IL 60624. Zoom down to street view and spin around to see the gangbangers freaking because the Google car drove past them. Dude in the front is too drunk to care.

      CHA has a lottery periodically for the wait list for public housing. The last one was in 2010. The lottery for CHA’s Family Wait List was conducted in 2010 and 40,000 registrants were added to CHA’s Family Wait List in the same year. 40,000 registrants ! 40,000 !!! That’s on top of the 50,000 “familes and individuals” who have already staked their claims. CHA has almost 9,400 apartments in buildings designated for seniors and more than 11,500 units of family housing. It also oversees the administration of 36,900 Housing Choice Vouchers that allow low-income families to rent in the private market. Yah, like the woman who had the 2-bedroom apartment in the luxury building, the building where I could only afford to rent a 1-bedroom unit. Paid for by me and other hard-working taxpayers. This so makes me want to move.

  5. More evidence the leatherman bloggers are actually 12 year olds:

    racerrodig “I forgot….it’s illegal to carry a gun like that in the condition it was. It must have an empty chamber. Even the police CANNOT have a semi – auto pistol with a round in the chamber…..anywhere.”

    blushedbrown “Yep.”

    • mung says:

      What world do they live in? Wonder where that law is they are talking about?

      • maggiemoowho says:

        New York or Chicago :lol:

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Gun laws are the strictest in Chicago and New York, so they probably go by their own laws.

          • James says:

            Except in Chicago and New York City the average person can’t carry a handgun in public at all, in Chicago only Aldermen and police can carry, in New York City you have to be politically connected. The only state that I know of that only allows carrying unloaded handguns is for those in California without a license, but then it has to be COMPLETELY unloaded, any magazine can’t be in the pistol, and even that was banned a year ago. Florida has no requirement that someone who is legally licensed to carry a handgun cannot have a round chambered. That IS a practice in some European countries and even Israel for at least some armed police.

      • John Galt says:

        Mayberry, RFD. Barney Fife had to keep his bullet in his pocket.

    • mung says:

      How about this one?
      Lonnie Starr says:
      January 21, 2013 at 8:44 am

      But, that is definitely the sound of a kel tec pf 9 being racked, so, if it isn’t GZ doing it, then there’s someone else there doing it. They did say that GZ and Shelly both had the same guns. So, maybe GZ had his wifes gun and MO or someone else had his gun? In any case, something unexplained was going on out there.

      That sound is not being generated by sound alike things, because there simply aren’t that many things that sound like it, that would be available out there in the dark rainy Sunday night.

      Are these the same voice experts that claim it is a child screaming for help that have identified that sound as a PF-9 racking? A) it doesn’t sound anything like that, and i know what a PF-9 actually sounds like. B) how can they tell it is a Kel-Tec vs a Ruger or some other gun?

      Just another case of “crap the evidence shows clearly that the mantra we have been playing out for months is totally wrong, so we have to come up with some excuse as to how we aren’t wrong, let’s see, I know, someone else was there with the exact same gun!”

      • Chip Bennett says:

        But, that is definitely the sound of a kel tec pf 9 being racked…

        People who only ever see guns in a Hollywood production should not pretend to be experts. This person could no more identify by sound only the racking of a Kel-Tec PF9 slide than Dee Dee can hear the sound of grass, or a “little bit get off, get off”.

        But let’s back up: is it even possible that the NEN call recording picked up the sound of Zimmerman racking the slide? As previously discussed, the load-out of the gun precludes him from having done so. But even suggesting that he might have done so belies a complete lack of understanding of most semi-automatic pistols.

        Here’s a photo of the Kel-Tec PF9. Notice that little lever, just in front of the safety? That is a slide release. The purpose of the slide release is to release the slide and chamber a round, after the gun has been re-loaded.

        And why is the slide release needed? Because when the gun’s magazine is exhausted, upon firing the last round in the chamber, the action locks the slide back, since there are no other rounds to be chambered.

        In such pistols, the slide never has to be “racked”. It can be, but there’s typically no need to do so, unless:

        1. The pistol is stored unloaded, with the slide released. Upon loading, the slide would need to be racked, to load a round.
        2. The pistol misfires. The slide would need to be racked either to eject the unfired round, or to load a round after a failure-to-feed.

        That’s pretty much it.

        So, Zimmerman would have had no reason to rack the slide. And if he had done so in order to mimic a Hollywood cowboy, doing so would have necessitated that he find and reload the ejected round.

        I see that someone else suggested that the sound was a “chamber check”, but that makes even less sense. Pulling the slide back to verify that a round is chambered makes, essentially, no sound whatsoever.

      • rumpole2 says:

        These people hear 4 accomplices and a cockatoo in background of NEN call.. not to mention….. as yet unspecified music playing… so their interpretation of clicks and sounds is suspect to say the least

      • eastern2western says:

        yawn, trent sawyer’s lover again.

      • jello333 says:

        But you’re missing the main point, which is not so much what exact type of guns were involved. Rather, it’s how many PEOPLE (each with their own gun) were involved. We already know that, at a minimum, it was George, Shellie, and Taffee out wabbit huntin’ that night. But was Osterman also there? How ’bout Bobby Jr? Maybe even Dad? Mom?… nah, doubtful. She was busy sitting home hating on Obama (because he’s black, and she is a racist). Oh, and I’m sure George’s friend (the guy who called him “Tugboat”) wanted in on the action, too. Likely others involved, of course, but we can just start with these. (Just an FYI… cockatoos aren’t very adept with guns, so even if he was present, he must have been using something else.)

    • tara says:

      It’s really interesting to read through the results when you do a Google search on “racerrodig”.

      • tara says:

        Here’s one post he made on some music-related web site:

        04:40 PM on 09/19/2012
        Here’s a point regarding that despite the personal tragedy involved. Our Godson committed suicide on the 9th. The Thursday before that he was in a fight. At the funeral on the 15th his knuckles, forearms and the backs of his hands were covered in bruises. From the fight ! They were self defense wounds !! They were so visible my wife and I were kind of shocked the Funeral Director allowed that. The point is Trayvon has no bruises, how is that possible. The scratch is stated as a scar also, he did not get that from anything that happened on 2/26, that’s for sure.

        This doesn’t even make sense. racerrodig states that his godson was involved in a fight and was bruised defending himself. But racerrodig thinks that Trademark’s lack of bruises are indicative of something. Using his own logic, I think we can conclude that Trademark wasn’t defending himself. Eyewitnesses saw the physical fight so we know Trademark was fighting. There ya go, racerrodig, it’s not rocket science.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      .it’s illegal to carry a gun like that in the condition it was. It must have an empty chamber.

      [Citation Needed]

    • lovemygirl says:

      I’ve seen them claim that when George called the NEN number he became on duty as NW, he was required to disarm himself and it was then illegal for him to carry. They are very strange indeed.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        …when George called the NEN number he became on duty as NW, he was required to disarm himself and it was then illegal for him to carry…

        I’m not holding my breath, while waiting for them to cite their source for such statutes. And yes, it must be statutes. Why?

        Because Florida statutes have preemption over all laws regarding carrying weapons in the state:

        790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—
        (1) PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or any administrative regulations or rules adopted by local or state government relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances, rules, or regulations are hereby declared null and void.

        That means that, even if the Sanford Police Department attempted to put in place regulations that prohibited neighborhood watch volunteers from carrying firearms, or if the national NHW guidelines prohibited volunteers from carrying firearms, or if the National Sheriffs Association had guidelines prohibiting neighborhood watch volunteers from carrying firearms, such regulations are null and void under Florida law.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Early in the media storm, Crump was saying it was illegal for a NW member to be armed, and he was surprised that Zimmerman wasn’t arrested for that.

      • Alexandra M. says:

        LMAO…..the Leatherheads. An annoying little group of fawning sycophants known for standing on top of desks to proclaim: “Professor, my professor!”. Lol…..kind of a twisted support group of ex-cons, extreme fringe-dwellers and people “in-between jobs” who are preoccupied with hating George (as well as keeping up on their own frivolous lawsuit count). More than just a few broken moral compasses in the lot.

  6. diwataman says:

    Geez, in a way I kind of miss counting the days, it made it seem shorter counting only work days to the next hearing, now I have to look at it from an every day perspective, 2 weeks by the way. Shellie’s is tomorrow which will probably get continued.


    OS on one of the other depos posted. Says it’s Mary Cutcher, I wonder who the other one is.


    • diwataman says:

      Ah, just occurred to me, it’s probably Selma.

      • AghastInFL says:

        From the article:
        “According to court paperwork recently released, Cutcher and three other witnesses were deposed Wednesday by defense attorneys. The others include Selma Mora, her roommate whose account is similar to Cutcher’s, and two other people who also called 911 that night.”
        Two others… might get interesting soon.

        • diwataman says:

          The way Rene wrote that and the following paragraph is confusing.

          “Two days later, according to court paperwork, defense attorneys deposed two other witnesses. None was named but was identified only by number to protect him or her from harassment.”

          So is it six total people or just four?;
          911 Caller
          911 Caller

          The depo notice filed on the 16th was John and there were two others filed on the 18th. So that’s three notices total. Everyone just completely sucks at getting info out now; O’Mara, the State, the 18th Circuit Court Media Advisories and the OS, all of em’, suck.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            I think it’s clearly six. Cutcher, Mora, and the two unidentified 911 callers on the same day, two other witnesses two days later.

            • diwataman says:

              So I guess one depo has Mary, Selma and two 911 callers and the other depo has two W#’S? I think it’s mainly this sentence throwing me off “Two days later, according to court paperwork, defense attorneys deposed two other witnesses”. Looking at the docket one might get the impression that is the 16th and 18th notice’s since they have a two day separation as well but we know only from her other article from before that’s W6. Also, if the other 911 callers were not named, were they not given numbers for that particular notice? I suppose that’s possible but then why are there W numbers for the other one?

              See what I’m saying?

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                ‘See what I’m saying?’

                Sorry, no.

                This is my first time to follow a case like this in real time on the internet. I got interested in the Duke Lacrosse case after it was over. OJ Simpson was in the early days of the internet, but well before I was online myself.

                There are some things I’m still getting up to speed on, like reading those dockets.

                First, though, I think the 1/22 OS article, linked above, is quite clear. Cutcher, Mora, and two unidentified 911 callers were deposed on the 1/16. It says the 16th; we don’t have to guess. Two days later, 1/18, two more witnesses were deposed, with no information given about them. Then we’re told that one of the four unidentified witnesses is W-11. She may have been deposed on 1/16 or 1/18.

                I googled ‘notice of deposition’, and it’s just what it sounds like. The attorney wanting to take a deposition has to file a notice a certain number of days before the date for the deposition. I looked at GZLegal, and there they label the notices according to the date of deposition.

                So, on the docket, are the dates associated with the notices the filing dates, or the deposition dates?

                About the earlier article you mentioned above. It’s not linked, and I haven’t read it. Wasn’t W-6 deposed back in December?

          • jello333 says:

            “Everyone just completely sucks at getting info out now; O’Mara, the State, the 18th Circuit Court Media Advisories and the OS, all of em’, suck.”

            I can almost picture you jumping up and down yelling “Kill! Kill! Kill!” as you type that. ;)

    • howie says:

      If the judge kicks Corey off the case I wonder if the local SA will re-file?

    • hooson1st says:

      These depositions are an example of MOM/West dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s. Everything in its right time and sequence.

      • diwataman says:

        lol, hopeless. Tell him to dot his i’s on that scanner and upload the depos so we don’t have to depend on Rene.

        • John Galt says:

          +1 Post Cutcher’s depo. I could use a good laugh.

          • diwataman says:

            Well, I technically meant “Notice” so we can at least be clear on the facts of who got deposed when, I seriously doubt we’ll ever see the depos if we can’t even get the notices themselves. But yes, it would be amusing to hear her depo.

            It would also be nice to see a depo of someone not already listed in the State’s discovery. You know, like the three stooges or the people who played football in the area with Trayvon, people like that.

          • jello333 says:

            “Now Miss Cutcher, I’m going to play this tape, then I’d like to ask you a few questions.”


            [911 "scream" tape begins]

            “Oh no! Not that! Please turn it off, Mr. O’Mara! I can’t… oh, no!…. that poor, poor, little boy! Listen to him! I can still see him, in that little red shirt… that cute little smile on his face! The child, the wee, helpless child! I can’t….”

            “Miss Cutcher, are you alright? Please calm down. I’ll just tell you, there’s evidence that that’s Mr. Zimmerman screaming, not Mr. Martin. And besides, Trayvon was not…”


            “That’s George screaming and crying. It’s not Trayvon.”

            “Oh. Ok, thank you. What a whiny little baby Zimmerman is, eh? Just listen to him…. ‘Oh help me, help me!’ Typical. Alright, so you said you had some questions?”

      • Sha says:

        hooson1st : I hope when Omara and West get threw with this case and GZ is free that there will be alot of people looking around going WHAT ! What the heck just happened ? Because they steam rolled all over the prosecution. Next …. I wont to see who can run the fastest from the civil suits that are going to be flying around. Oh ! and last but not least let them PLEASE fry a few small fish just to prove a point .

    • eastern2western says:

      I kind of want to see mary cutcher’s testimony. selma blair speaks good english, but some of her esl confusions could actually change the meaning of testimony. It would be much better off for her to speak spanish. mary cutcher is another completely different loon. she was filmed publicly speaking for the trayvon martin family and also hugging sabrina which will be sufficient enough for her impeachment. Another thing is her stories are influenced by the media. she stated she never saw anything happened before the gun shot, but she then all over the network and claim that there was not a fight because she did not heard anything. what the heck is wrong with this woman? is she some kind of starving actress who is hungry for attention or does she have some problems with zimmerman? her testimony with serrino is laughably funny too because the word kid had never left her mouth. It was just kid that, kid this, but how did she knew it was a kid lying on the ground when she did not even look at the ground? lets just impeach her and get it over with. it is obvious that the prosecution will not use cutcher because she was never even mention in the affidavit.

      • John Galt says:

        “it is obvious that the prosecution will not use cutcher because she was never even mention in the affidavit.”

        State has to use horrible witness as they have nothing good. Defense likely has an entire file cabinet labeled “Cutcher – Impeachment Materials”.

      • jello333 says:

        She’s either a liar and massively biased, or she’s insane. If the latter, I kinda feel bad for her. SERIOUS issues.

      • justfactsplz says:

        She did not like George. She was supposedly very distraught at the scene, crying, and needing something for her nerves. She is not credible.

  7. Justice4All says:

    Let me guess………….Mary and her girlfriend each showed up to their depositions represented by black attorneys who are in some way affiliated with the scheme team????

    Like the young witness whose mother showed up to her MSNBC interview with legal representation,. Since when do witnesses in a case need to be represented by an attorney? and why would they be represented by an attorney who is affiliated with the firm who is representing the family of the victim?

    • howie says:

      In civil, so opposing counsel will avoid them in the informal investigation. To keep insurance investigators away?

      • Justice4All says:

        Seems like a major conflict of interest to have attorneys who are representing the victim, and their friends, representing witnesses in a case of this magnitude.

        I guess the scheme team are acting like civil attorneys because this case was never about justice for thugvon, they have known from the start that George will never be charged with any crime. It must be disheartening for them to see this case so rapidly falling to pieces on them after all they have invested into it :(

        • howie says:

          Well duh! They are wrongful death lawyer’s. Not criminal. They make $$$$ on pay to go away lawsuits. It is all bout the money for them. Law Diva???? In a Mercedes???? To collect there has to be a “wrongful death.”

    • diwataman says:

      Hell, W18 hired her own private investigator! LOL!

      • diwataman says:

        Sorry, technically he says he was hired by Tracy or someone in that camp but she was the only one he talked to apparently which makes me think she was part of it, regardless, just silliness.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          From what I read, the investigator was actually hired by Natalie Jackson, hence this comment by Dale Gilbreath in the record of his 4/4 interview of wit 18 by the FDLE at her atty’s office:

          “(Wit 18’s name redacted) reviewed her audio interview with Detective Serino, SPD, prior to the interview. Brett (wit 18’s atty) had been furnished her written statement to SPD, her written statement to a private investigator, (both supplied by John Guy at their request) and her 911 call.

          They (FDLE investigators?) had previously contacted the Martin Family Attorney, Ms (redacted) and Ms (redacted) had provided them (FDLE?) with the written statement taken by a private investigator. She (wit 18) did this with the understanding that it not be revealed. Brett (wit 18’s atty) was upset, indicating that JACKSON (oops the forgot to redact that one) had broken her word by supplying it (wit 18’s written statement to Jackson’s PI) to law enforcement.”

          SO, the written statement dated 3/16 in the MAY discovery dump was the one given by wit 18 to Natalie Jackson’s PI, and wit 18 (and her atty) were none to happy that Natalie Jackson had given the statement to the police. WHY? What did she THINK they would do with it?


          • hooson1st says:

            probably not

          • howie says:

            It may have related to the Martin Civil Action that was pending. To prevent insurance PI’s from interviewing. This whole thing looks tangled in the Martin civil action. That brings back the point of the sealing of the records and wether the Martin lawyers knew what was in the records. Then what they did after the sealing and wether they fraudulently misrepresented material facts to promote the civil action. It looks questionable to me.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              I have wondered how many other witnesses were approached by Jackson’s PI, but refused to give any statement to him/her?

              Obviously there was no need to contact Cutcher and Mora (5+16) and 8, because they had already gone on the record in support of the family.

              So that leaves 11+20, 12+13, 1+2, 6+17, 14+15, (all paired due to their locations during the incident) 3, and 19.

              I wonder if part of O’Mara’s depositions includes asking these people if they were contacted by Crump, Jackson, or Jackson’s PI?

            • howie says:

              Well this is civil litigation. Fraudulent misrepresentation. Most of the law is v the defendant insurance companies. Not the fraudulent claims. I can’t find any v a fraudulent plaintiff.

    • tara says:

      According to this Slate article, Cutcher and Mora hooked up with Team Skittles shortly after the incident.

      The careful witness who’d only talked to Channel 9 behind a half-open door, signed up for a full-scale press conference with Martin’s family and attorneys. Over the next two weeks she did on-camera interviews with national news. Instead of a surreptitious shot of the witness on her cellphone, media covering the story had Cutcher, face to camera, explaining herself. [...] Cutcher and Mora had Martin’s legal team handle the media requests.


      • tara says:

        From the same article:

        Police arrived and pronounced Martin dead at 7:30. Cutcher and Mora gave a statement and their phone numbers. The next day, Cutcher says that she made more phone calls to the police and didn’t hear back. Two days later, the police called to follow up, although according to Cutcher and Mora, this was fruitless. “We were told, ‘you guys just need to calm down,’ ” says Cutcher. “They never followed up after that.”

        Not quite “never.” On March 14, as coverage of the story picked up, WFTV Channel 9 ran an interview with Cutcher. The police department’s response: Basically, they called her a liar. According to spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, Cutcher’s statement (which hasn’t been released) backed up Zimmerman’s story. “Actually,” said Morgenstern, “officers who were canvassing the neighborhood looking for potential witnesses, the evening of the shooting, contacted her and she said she did not want to get involved. She did write a statement, for her roommate, and that was only after several attempts by officers who were asking for her information.”

        Interesting. She and Mora didn’t witness the events leading up to the shooting, they only witnessed the cries for help, the sound of the gunshot, and then Zimmerman’s and Martin’s position post-shooting. What they offered has been corroborated by other witnesses.

        Why did Cutcher feel that police should have remained in contact with her after she and Mora gave their statements? Why did she think that she, or she and her girlfriend, were so important that they should continue to talk, if not to police then to the public through the media?

        • jello333 says:

          Why did she want to talk to the cops some more? Simply because as the days went by, she realized that her initial statements to them would not only not hurt George, it might actually HELP him. And that, she could NOT allow to stand! Which is why she wanted to keep talking, so she could “correct” herself. A little like how Austin later changed his initial story. (Though of course this wasn’t the kid’s idea.)

      • howie says:

        She might have thought she could have a cause of action v SPD. Ya never know. $$$$

        • partyof0 says:

          No kidding howie..they had $$$$ signs in both eyes…then…they were going to be MEGASTARS….to be put in a future book and movie deal (maybe they would play themselves….MORE CASH$$$$) that was to be written about THEM. HEROES (in their own minds)…because they KNEW what they BELIEVED in their HEARTS was true…that that little 12 year old boy was the one screaming for his life at the hands of the (EVIL…how’d they know that one…in their hearts…AGAIN?…zzzzzzzzzzz…….) George Zimmerman.


      • eastern2western says:

        that has impeachment writing all over it. If o’mara can not get cutcher impeach, then he might as well surrender his law degree and go back to school.

        • howie says:

          They are trained. Now look what he did. West, Beasley….Hmmmn. He is board certified. criminal defense. Pinky rings or not. He has proclaimed his client innocent. Innocent is not a lightly used term.

          • justfactsplz says:

            It sure took him long enough to declare his client was innocent.

            • hooson1st says:

              What should he have done?

              • justfactsplz says:

                It should not have taken him so long. Even the two lawyers in the beginning were taking up for George and believing in his innocence from the very start. But of course they did not pan out to be all that good.

                • tara says:

                  My guess is more often than not a defense attorney is representing someone who committed a crime, so there’s some natural bias, for lack of a better word. Bias based on prior experiences. It takes a little time for all of the facts to come out and for the attorney to be convinced that the client is indeed innocent.

                • hooson1st says:

                  Every lawyer has his/her own approach.

                  The fact that he did not assert his client’s absolute innocence vociferously in the beginning gives more punch to his later unequivocal stance.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I hope you are right. That makes me feel better about it.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, Hooson made a fair point. I’m like you, I really wish MOM had been more vocal from the start. But I can also see some logic in what Hooson said. In fact, MOM now using the word “innocent”, as opposed to “not guilty” is a big deal, I think. The reason I say that, is because of any FUTURE clients MOM may have. See, one reason lawyers are often hesitant to come out and loudly, publicly declare their client’s innocence is the “precedent” it might set. What I mean is this: A lawyer starts on a new case, with a new client. He thinks he can get the guy off, but he doesn’t really believe the guy is 100% innocent. So when he holds a press conference, he may say stuff like, “I believe my client will be found not guilty. The state doesn’t have enough evidence to convict.” Well, I can imagine that client NOT being real thrilled with that. I can imagine them saying to the lawyer:

                    “Hey wait a minute! I remember the last guy you represented, you came out and said he was 100% innocent, and that he was being railroaded. So now the way you talk about me, it looks like you don’t have as much confidence in MY innocence. I think you were trying to help him more than you are me.”

                    See what I mean? Lawyers just don’t like to get their clients’ expectations too high. And they REALLY don’t like to be accused of caring more about one client than the other. So, you know what just dawned on me? The fact that MOM is willing to do this now, may be more significant than we thought. Maybe the reason he isn’t worried about the next client to come along, is that he doesn’t plan on HAVING a next client. Maybe he knows he’s “burning bridges”, as they say, and this is gonna be the Big One he goes out on. Of course it’ll be just the START of his next “career” (writer, consultant, speaker, etc, etc)… but maybe as far as basic defense work, maybe this is it?

                    (This of course is TOTAL conjecture on my part.)

                  • hooson1st says:

                    me too.

      • jello333 says:

        Cutcher and Mora have thrown all their support behind the Scheme Team. Therefore I see no way they can POSSIBLY be considered unbiased witnesses. So in my opinion, they’re similar to Dee Dee: They are no longer of any help to the State. The only value they now have is to the Defense. Not only for impeachment purposes, but also to add to the mounting evidence of a conspiracy.

        • howie says:

          Jell, there is a lot more here than meets the eye. What appers to be, is not.

        • tara says:

          I’d like to know exactly how and when Cutcher and Mora hooked up with Crump. Did they initate contact with Crump or did Crump initiate contact them? Were they paid for their interviews? Flown to New York or California?

  8. arkansasmimi says:

    Wish they would find a REAL REPORTER:
    Bob Longo‏@BobLongo 6 min ago
    WESH Reporter Job Available . Looking 4 someone w/ excellent Live, Breaking News & multi-media skills . Email reel to: bvlongo@hearst.com

  9. arkansasmimi says:

    Natalie Jackson‏@NatJackEsq 10:59 AM – 22 Jan 13
    Another reason SPD was wrong…their treatment of Ms. Cuther & Mora (both have NEVER changed their account of events) http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-depos-20130122,0,3166456.story

    • tara says:

      Cutcher appears to have an ego problem. She wanted to be more involved in the investigation, she thought she could help, she thought she had info or insights others didn’t have. The police didn’t find her so valuable so she cried foul and ran to the media with the help of Team Skittles. Interesting.

      • tara says:

        From the Orlando Sentinel article: “Someone was “whining,” [Cutcher] said. “Someone was struggling, in trouble, hurting. … I think the kid was running for help.”

        She’s imagining Trademark running away from GZ and GZ gunning him down (like a rabid dog). But the bullet entry would have been in Trademark’s back and the path would have been back to front. We know with 100% certainty that the opposite is true.

        • eastern2western says:

          all of the stuff about the kid was running for help is all part of imagination. In many of her interviews, she always claims that she believes it was not self defense or thinks it is not self defense etc. However, she has already stated she came after the gun was fired and saw nothing of all of the events occured before. Then how in world did she knew the kid was running for help? Impeach this woman and her roommate already. come on, this could had been the best witness for the prosecution because she is the only pro-trayvon witness who was actually there, but she screwed her self big time by keep giving out contradictory statements.

          • tara says:

            She’s making a gross assumption because she saw GZ standing over Trademark many seconds after the shooting. There are better witnesses, people who saw the phyical fight which she did not see. Can’t she just admit that she’s not important?What kind of psychological disorder is it which causes people to think that they should be involved in everything?

            • partyof0 says:

              Delusions of Grandeur….book deal….up and coming actress/starlet…endless visions of being in the limelight…..

        • Justice4All says:

          “Someone was “whining,” [Cutcher] said. “Someone was struggling, in trouble, hurting. … I think the kid was running for help.”

          I think he was just trying to reach for his skittles and iced tea…..I guess Crump thought adding this line into her statement would have been a little over the top.

        • jello333 says:

          If anyone really DID see someone running just before the shot, it was obviously Austin (chasing his dog) who they saw.

      • Cherpa1 says:

        I agree. I would love to see her on the stand with West challanging her “story” and “young boy” statements.

      • ftsk420 says:

        Few months back I went and looked at Selma Facebook page and on the night of Feb 26 she went out to get her drink on at one point she had pics up but now they are all gone. All info she had posted from that time is gone and I can no longer find Mary facebook page. A drunk witness isn’t a very good witness.

      • janc1955 says:

        Narcissists are a dime a dozen these days. She’s just one more. Sense of grandiosity and will do anything for a bit of attention.

    • tara says:

      How did I miss this? Here it is for the benefit of others who missed it:


      It’s got a screenshot of the pictures Selma Mora uploaded to her Facebook page, along with the subtitle “Problem with the above picture, Selma was 245 miles away at a concert on 2/26/2012” So Selma wasn’t in Sanford at the time of the shooting? But Mary Cutcher said Selma was there and called 911 (in her handwritten statement, “my roomate called 911″).

      • tara says:

        The depth of deception here is truly astounding. My husband isn’t into it as much as I am, he doesn’t understand why I’m compelled to learn more. It’s because I cannot believe in this day, in the 21st century, that so much misinformation could be propagated and so many people could be brainwashed by it and never bother to dig to find out if it’s true. So much for the claim that humans are getting smarter.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        Hmm… perhaps a subpoena to Facebook, for Selma’s activity on or around 26Feb2012?

      • arkansasmimi says:

        I remb way back when, looking at those pix directly on their fb. I dont know why but seems I remb that they were UPLOADED to facebook by phone. Seems the concert was the evening before? Cant remb. I do remb people talking about them most likely hung over. I feel sure I read about it here at the TH. Been a long time now tho,

        • ftsk420 says:

          Didn’t her kids go to the same school as Austin or Chad.

        • tara says:

          Oh, you might be right. Another image in Google’s image cache shows a title, “In concert with Silvestre Dangon and Pipe Peleaz” and and upload info “Feb 26 at 12:00 near Heathrow FL”. Heathrow FL is not far from Sanford.

          The Facebook page for Dangond and Peleaz says that they would be in Orlando the evening of Feb 25, starting at 9pm, at 9677 S Orange Blossom Trail Orlando, FL 32837 which is well south of Orlando. Maybe after the concert they went to the Heathrow area for an after-party event?

          • tara says:

            Here’s a YouTube video of Dangond and Peleaz performing at the Mela Room located at the Orlando address in my prior post. Same beige curtain backdrop as in Selma Mora’s picture. She probably took the photos at the concert and then uploaded them on her way home. Ok, false lead.

      • diwataman says:

        I don’t recall that either. That would be something if it was true but there’s no dates on the photos themselves and they are not her facebook anymore, so, ya know. Hopefully O’Mara asked her ay?

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        “Problem with the above picture, Selma was 245 miles away at a concert on 2/26/2012”

        I don’t buy it.

        Police reports put them both at the scene.

        On Cutcher’s 911 call, you can hear her calling to ‘Selma’, telling her to get inside.

        • ftsk420 says:

          When Mary Cutcher spoke to the dispatcher she said it was guys not kids and she said that there was a black guy standing over the other guy. That’s why the police don’t wanna have anything to do with her.

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Heathrow is only 22 min. from Sanford. I’m not sure why they say it’s that far.

          • tara says:

            I think the person who wrote that blog thought that the pictures were taken in Miami, which I think is where the two musicians were performing the night of Feb 26.

      • jello333 says:

        Wait. I thought one of the cops interviewed BOTH of them at the apt. that night. If so, Selma must have been there, right?

    • hooson1st says:

      N Jackson is wrong here. The accounts have changed, but more importantly, both of them offer nothing to challenge GZ’s account of the confrontation.

      The assertion that they heard “nothing” prior to the shot, does not necessarily mean that they heard nothing. They recall having heard nothing. Certainly the gunshot sound got their attention and their audible perceptions would gain credence. But all this was after the fatal confrontation.

  10. arkansasmimi says:

    HOUSTON (AP) — A college campus in Texas is on lockdown amid reports of a shooter on campus.

    Lone Star College System issued an alert on its website Tuesday telling students and faculty on its Houston-area campus in north Harris County to take immediate shelter or avoid the campus. Spokesman Jed Young says there are reports of a shooter.

    Aerial footage from local television stations shows emergency personnel attending to some people on stretchers and at least one being taken into an ambulance. Others can be seen running from a bTexas campus issues alert amid reports of shooter

    The Associated Press
    Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:18 PM ESTuilding led by officers.

    The Harris County Sheriff’s Office says it has no immediate details.

  11. HughStone says:

    Witness stated during interview on KHOU11
    “2 black males were arguing, one turns to walk away, then turns back to other male and takes gun out backpack and empties 9 to 10 rounds.. One shooter, no other guns seen by the witness.”

  12. HughStone says:

    “1 black female and 1 white male caught in crossfire”

    • lovemygirl says:

      Latest was the guy caught in the crossfire was a janitor and the female student had a heart attack. The other two wounded were the shooters? Who knows at this point.

  13. brutalhonesty says:

    another rapper exploiting trayvon too make money….another one to add to the lawsuits….this one raps the whole case….he slanders george and lies about what happened overall..even with LEE…

  14. brutalhonesty says:

    and another rapper

  15. brutalhonesty says:

    another one

    “Trayvon” was directed by Paradise Gray and co directed and engineered by Mirage

    It’s Sunday the God’s day a day of rest
    The Nba all stars are playing next
    But right outside that same city
    The celebratory atmosphere would change quickly
    Who watching the game with me you know lil Trayvon
    Was reppin his home town D Wade and LeBron
    He had just came up from Miami to see his daddy
    Who knew such a great weekend would end so badly
    In a place where you move because it’s safe for your family
    But some people got a ingrown hate for your family
    Halftime just a short brake from the slammin
    Bout to go to the store lil cuz you want some candy?
    Bet I grab you some skittles kid
    I’ll be right back in a little bit

    Paid for lil cuz’s skittles and a iced tea
    walked out the store and felt the chill of the night breeze
    it seemed a little colder than before
    he didn’t know it was a boy like a soldier in a war
    that was watching him clocking him thinking about stopping him
    nine milly cocking them who’s this nigga walking in my neighborhood
    he fits all the specifics of criminal statistics he looks suspicious
    911, what’s your emergency
    A black man’s walking through my hood purposely
    stay clam, it’s just little Trayvon but he wanna be the hero so he put’s his cape on
    George Zimmerman neighborhood block captain
    loaded glock strapped in fake cop has been
    got out the car ignoring what the cops asked him
    They always get away this time that will not happin

    George Zimmerman didn’t take his Ritalin
    drunk off adrenaline says he making a citizens arrest
    Trayvon looks at him vexxed
    I just walked to the store nothing more nothing less
    Just steps from his home he ignored his request
    George grabs him, Trayvon swings and connects
    Starts screaming out for help but Zimmerman see a threat
    so he pulls out his gun and he points it at his chest
    He fires but he misses Trayvon pleads for forgiveness
    I didn’t do nothing this is senseless
    but George Zimmerman was so vicious
    he made sure the second shot hit em no survivor no witness
    Trayvon never gave his cousin his skittles
    missed the all star game didn’t see another dribble
    And George Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested
    the message is only white lives are protected
    In America

    • tara says:

      I would love to see this assh*le rapper get sued.

      • brutalhonesty says:

        especially for this “so he pulls out his gun and he points it at his chest
        He fires but he misses Trayvon pleads for forgiveness
        I didn’t do nothing this is senseless
        but George Zimmerman was so vicious
        he made sure the second shot hit em no survivor no witness”

        and we all know who the 2 shots lie came from

    • jello333 says:

      Now let’s not be TOO harsh. There’s some truth in those lyrics. Like, “Trayvon swings and connects.” Now let’s see… what else? Umm…. wait, still lookin’…. uh, well. Ok, maybe not. But at least he got the “Trayvon swings and connects” right.

  16. David says:

    I guess bigboi and the dog turd gang have dug up a 2009 dui by Rz Jr and have added that to their harassment

  17. David says:

    Today “change for trayvon” tweeted sybrina says tm was killed because of the color of his skin

    • jello333 says:

      I think those two — Sybrina and Tracy — are the only people who George would never consider suing. I can understand that, I suppose…. but WOW do they sure deserve to be taken down a few notches!

      • howie says:

        No deep pockets. Waste of time.

      • jordan2222 says:


        This was a statement you made in your first comment:
        And I even agree that there are SOME people who clearly seem to want to use this case to further racially divide this country.

        • jello333 says:

          “And I even agree that there are SOME people who clearly seem to want to use this case to further racially divide this country.”

          Yeah, looks like I was kinda hesitant to admit just how MANY there were in that “some”, huh? ;)

          • jordan2222 says:

            You made a totally honest comment about race and in doing so, you proved a huge point about race in this country. I bet you see that primarily because of your willingness to have an open mind, and then there’s that “little voice” in MOST of us that would prefer to know the truth. Moral compass?

            “My sheep hear my voice.”

            You rock, Jello.

  18. eastern2western says:

    the civil rights movement was partially created by police officers who abuse their powers by arresting minorities without sufficient evidence. Now, the whole martin clan is asking to police to abuse zimmerman civil rights because he is not black enough to be protected NAACP. The irony in this whole justice for trayvon movement is just full with racism, but civil rights groups are supporting the martins 100 percent without even questioning the legality of what they are asking for. god, this is no different from the original kkk clan except they are doing it legally this time.

    • Lou says:

      spot on as usual e2w. it’s a black power organization that hates latinos. maybe people will open their eyes that black Americans just HATE anything but their own. maybe they should move down to Miami and get the heck out of their nice cozy suburb for a taste of reality.

      • eastern2western says:

        actually, sectorian dispute is very normal in any society. even currently in africa, there is still a ton of tribal warfares going on over land. However, I find it really sad that they are abusing the meaning of justice while seeking the presecution of an innocent man.

        • jello333 says:

          Wow. A couple really great comments there, E2W. I like most all of your comments, but I don’t remember you often getting all philosophical on us…. but right on! ;)

  19. dmoseylou says:

    Hmmm…”call to action.” The article does not state what that “action” will be. Rallies or Riots?
    Trash Cans or Trashed Towns? I await 02/26 with tingly-all-over anticipation. /snark

    SDS NATIONAL CALL TO ACTION: February 26 Fight Back Against Racism and National Oppression. Remember Trayvon Martin.

    • howie says:

      You got it. They are in like flint. In the Federal Government.

    • jello333 says:

      Oh wow, I’m glad I went and read that. I saw SDS and thought “Huh?” I thought they had long ago disbanded. Well turns out this “new” organization has NOTHING to do with the real, late60s/early70s SDS (Students for a Democratic Society). Similar to the NBPP trying to co-opt the original BPP. Both the original Panthers and the original SDS were created in an attempt to right some wrongs. (Not to say they didn’t cause some problems themselves, of course.) But these “new” organizations?… well their only goals seem to be to exploit people who are too dumb to think for themselves.

      • jello333 says:

        Moderation again. Why you hate me? :(

      • jordan2222 says:

        More proof of their determination to keep the races divided.

        • tara says:

          Yes! “Self-determination” means sovereignty. They want to have their own country, their own governance, apparently. Well I’m all for it. Then they can start supporting their own losers and scammers instead of forcing all of us to support them. We would have SO much more money to work with if we didn’t have to spend so much of it giving away freebies to people who are not really “in need”.

  20. dmoseylou says:

    And, George and Beasley can add another one to the ever-growing list of civil actions with this statement in the same article.

    “Though Trayvon’s murderer is now on trial” [...]

    • tara says:

      Oh I didn’t see that! Who is this dumb sh*t “steph” who posted the message? Can’t she get anything right? Is she stupid, or does she know the facts and she’s simply lying to rile people up again?

      • tara says:

        Here she is, Stephanie Taylor:


        She not only heads the new Students for a Democratic Society group, she’s also a member of a pathetic ineffectual occupy group in Minneapolis. She’s making a career of complaining loudly yet doing nothing productive.

        • tara says:

          Proving my point, her proposed action to help to attain lower-cost tuition:

          Stephanie Taylor: Specifically on our campus, the University of Minnesota, the Campaign to Save Our School, a campaign initiated by SDS which has united diverse student groups throughout campus, will be calling on students to bombard the bursars office with tuition and loan bills/statements. This would essentially bring tangible attention to the fact that students can’t afford their bills anymore.

          From the bursar’s office we will then have a disruptive rally/dance party/flash mob outside the administrative building, administrator-esque piñata in tow, to demonstrate having a sort of ‘going away’ party for accessible education. We’ll be delivering our tuition bills and demanding the president take a pay cut to ameliorate our debt.

          Yah, the dancy party/flash mob and piñata will definitely work. (eye roll) I’d like to see what this girl will be doing in 10 years.


          • jello333 says:

            Oh Lord. They’ve gone from trying to stop the Vietnam War, to holding “dance party/flash mobs” to protest tuition costs. Pretty impressive, eh? Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, and the others who started the real SDS should sue these wanna-bes for trying to co-opt the name.

  21. dmoseylou says:

    Most significant factor, imo, is the date of this article: April 07, 2012. Early April and people are already sick of the St. Skittles schtick.

    “We got multiple complaints from residents in the area,” said mayor Richard Mola. “What they told me is they just don’t like what’s up there.”

    Trayvon Martin mural in Elmwood Park draws mixed reactions

  22. dmoseylou says:

    This mural article is from 08/17/2012. I hope they will also be forced to remove the mural, but failing that, maybe they will voluntarily remove it when the TRUTH is revealed about St. Skittles.

    “Trayvon Martin in his hoodie. That now-familiar image is the centerpiece of a new mural unveiled in East New York Friday.”

    East New York Residents Paint Mural To Protest Gun Violence

  23. dmoseylou says:

    Now this one is funny and pathetic. If you are going to deface a famous monument, at least get your spelling straight.

    “The Robert E. Lee monument in Lee Circle is sprayed, “For Treyvon Martin,” “RIP,” “rip treyvon martin,” [...]


    Where is Chump!?
    Justin Sipp shooting findings turned over to district attorney by NOPD

    • howie says:

      Well, this shows where we are at. Chaos over the civil war. Obama claiming he is the neo-lincoln. Research shows that the cause of the Civil War was abolition of slavery. I don’t think there is slavery of black americans now.

      • dmoseylou says:

        “Research shows that the cause of the Civil War was abolition of slavery.”

        The Civil War was NOT the result of / occurred because of slavery abolition. The RESULT of the Civil War was abolition of slavery.

        Furthermore, Research validates the primary causative factor culminating in the US Civil War was new states’ rights. Slavery and economics were secondary factors.


  24. ejarra says:


    Yesterday, we were talking about going down memory lane and you mentioned finding first posts, specifically yours. It took a few FUN hours, Man, the names (posters that I found and miss and the ones still here}. Here it is and it was great (after you were let out of “awaiting moderation”).

    Hey all. I just discovered this site a few days ago, and I’m impressed by the quality of some of the research and logical conclusions in your Zimmerman/Martin posts and comments. I’m trying to catch up, and I’ve still got about three more updates to go through before I’m there. I hadn’t planned on commenting till I was done, but since this post specifically addresses something I wanted to say — something I think you all might find important — I decided to skip ahead.

    But before I continue, I should admit something: I’m one of those scary, scary liberals. BOO! Actually I’m much further on the left of the political spectrum than your average liberal. And so of course it’s unlikely you and I would agree on most things you discuss on this site. But while you’re generally right that the average liberal in this country is taking the side of “Team Skittles” as you guys call them, that’s not universal. There ARE many libs out there who have enough intelligence, ethics, and self-respect that we don’t allow ourselves to be manipulated by the MSM or anyone else. I’m one of those. And as far as this case is concerned, I’m finding myself agreeing with about 95% of what I’m reading on this site. And I even agree that there are some people who clearly seem to want to use this case to further racially divide this country.

    So…. first I just wanted get that out of the way, to make sure you all won’t chase me off with a can of RAID or something. We good? OK, since this comment is just an intro to myself, I’ll post another comment just below with the substance of what I wanted to talk about. That way, if anyone thinks it’s of any value, they won’t have to come dig through THIS comment to find it.

    SDC welcomed you here and as they say the rest is history


    My gift to you. I hope you enjoy it.

    • howie says:

      I am kinda liberal myself when it comes to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Amend it or shut the f#^&$ up.

    • jello333 says:

      How cool! Thanks a lot. So May 5th… I thought it was right around then, but wasn’t sure. But there’s one part of that comment which is pretty funny, where I say I’m gonna post the “substance” of the point I was wanting to make in a follow-up comment. And I implied that I was gonna do it in a few minutes. Then in my next comment I was like, Well, I’m still working on it. HA! Turns out the thing got so long that I didn’t post it as a comment at all… rather I sent it to the admins in an email. And then, something like 4 days later, Puddy puts it up as a stand-alone post. Wow, what a welcome! It was this, in case anyone wants to continue on the Memory Lane theme:


      I had forgotten just how loooong that thing was. And now I gotta go read it again, to see how many mistakes I made. I think it’s remained pretty accurate, but I’m sure I messed up a few places.

      Anyway, thanks again for that, Ejarra!

    • jello333 says:

      Ok, now glancing over that post, and all the comments, I just now realized I didn’t even respond at the time!!! Apparently that’s because I didn’t even realize it had been posted till days later. Back then I didn’t yet know how to check things really close on the site, so I’d often miss things. Boy, this makes me feel bad. I mean looking at all the nice comments from people, and I said NOTHING in response.

      Forgive me? ;)

  25. jordan2222 says:

    Do we know anything whatsoever about DeeDee’s trip to Jacksonville? Surely, she talked to someone.

    • jello333 says:

      Mmm mmm mmm…. when he gets rolling, Crump is really quite the impressive liar, isn’t he? If I knew nothing about this case, and nothing about Crump and his buddies, I’d have no reason not to believe what he’s saying. I mean, the guy is really good. But then again, I think you have to be a bit of a sociopath the be a really, really good liar.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Some human beings are predisposed to lying and it is readily and immediately apparent to most logical people. Crump is one of those liars. I don’t know if it was bred into him or if it’s learned behavior but my guess he has matured to a point at which he really can’t help himself. I honestly believe what I am saying about him.

        Casey Anthony was one of those rare liars who could remember her previous lies and even expound on them. She was a master “fibber.” We will see if Crump has such talent when and if he is deposed and does not hide under the Fifth.

        • jello333 says:

          Oh yeah, I should have added a caveat to that. Crump is an excellent liar WHEN THERE’S NO PRESSURE ON HIM. But once he’s put on the spot?…. Well, we haven’t got to see much of that so far, but like you say, it’s coming, and THEN we’ll see just how good he really is. (My guess is he’ll crumble and try to hide under the table… if it ever comes to that.)

          • jordan2222 says:

            He thinks if he expresses himself with “conviction,” his lies will be believed. The tragedy is that he knows he’s lying. It’s as if he is intentionally insulting those of us are not fooled. He knows very well to whom he speaks. His audience is people just like him and it’s just another reason why race will always be an issue.

    • eastern2western says:

      does crump even know there is a possibility that he is currently not in a good situation? 12 minute recording from a 26 minute phone call? multiple stops during the tape recording? am I missing something in here? crump said the recording was the first and only time he had ever spoken to dd, but he asked dd to say hello to her mamma for him while recording. that does not sound like a first time conversation? Then there is good old mat gutman who inserted himself into this and wanting to be the white knight who saves the savage indians, who was talking to dd for days. is there any document evidences about what were they talking about or all he has is that 20 second audio recording? It amazes me that the martins still firmly believe in the original story they sold to the public despite a definitive photo of zimmerman with a broken nose.

    • diwataman says:

      The farce is strong in them ;)

  26. Ugh says:

    Couldn’t take it after massatucets and bref. Just couldn’t listen!

  27. howie says:

    Up until now I thought this case would be tossed pre-trial. I no longer hold that opinion. It is gonna be knock down drag out fight to the finish. All the power of the state and federal government is coming down on George. Hard. He is the Bismark. The best chance is the jury. it will go to trial in my opinion.

    • tara says:

      I’m still holding out hope that Nelson sees through all of the BS and refuses to enable it.

      • jello333 says:

        No matter what she would LIKE to do, she can’t just ignore the rules of evidence and criminal procedure. She can’t just ignore laws that are now on the books. And she can’t just ignore precedent. So if she’s stupid, corrupt, or scared enough to rule the wrong way, she’ll just get shot down at the appeals level. Maybe she’s OK with that… I really don’t know.

    • rumpole2 says:

      If a Florida jury is the “best chance” then we are in trouble.

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