Why The Lastest Defense Discovery Release – Flash Back To DiwataMan and The 7-11 Three Stooges

Today the George Defense Team released a reciprocal discovery filing, much speculation is surrounding the evidence the Defense Team is planning to use in the Immunity Hearing.  However, much speculation about the discovery release can be reconciled with understanding the 7-11 video aspects the prosecution ignored.

ReciprocalThe prosecution had no vested interest in pursuing the truth about the engaged activity from Trayvon Martin beyond identifying his whereabouts and the timeline back to the Retreat at Twin Lakes.   However, Don West had a vested interest in discovering the exact reasoning for the trip and the surrounding participants in the events.

I am reposting the Trayvon 7-11 video from DiwataMan for a several reasons. First, it is simply an exceptional catch that deserves to be reposted. From high altitude, or with only a casual glance, it might seem a little irrelevant, alas it is not. It is very significant.

From the outset the entire story of altruistic Trayvon Martin headed to the 7-11 for his “brother” Chad was simply silly. 17-year-old kids do not go out in the rain, at night, and walk over a mile just to get dad’s girlfriend’s kid a bag of skittles. Every intellectually honest person knew that story, while it might have sounded great -and was indeed Julianesque- was implausible. This video, and DiwataMan’s discovery of Trayvon’s actual intent, reflects the far more believable explanation.

Secondly, the “Three Stooges” should be easy to identify because one of them used a debit card for his purchase, and they need to be interviewed by authorities.

Third, knowing Trayvon ended up with a cigar to make into a marijuana blunt, begs the obvious question “why was it not on him when he was shot”? Generally a person would not smoke the entire thing en route home, no need too. So where was it, and where was the accompanying blunt filler ie marijuana.? Simple questions.

Fourth, combined with his intentional removal of his button from his jacket, and his placing his ear buds in his pockets, this deconstructs the entire narrative of why Trayvon took off running, and leads to the question of where did Trayvon end up physically located that allowed him to a) ditch the contraband, and b) remove the pin, ear buds, etc in preparation for the encounter/confrontation.

You see, when you are intellectually honest and ask these ‘reasonable’ questions based on the video, you end up with a scenario considerably different from what was originally sold by Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson and Ryan Julison. Trayvon could not have been “hunted down”, chased and caught etc.

Lastly, again being intellectually honest, what did Trayvon have to fear from a chubby, short, white-hispanic guy sitting in his truck? Street smart 17 year olds do not take off and run from ordinary people watching them, even if they are staring. They run from one thing, and one thing only, the law; Or people who are in contact with the law that are about to call in an inspection on you; And then you only run if you have something you need to hide or get rid of before the cops show up.

The Three Stooges could answer a lot of questions about those 7-11 minutes. In addition over the course of three days over 10,000 people have watched the newly revealing video on this site. Considering links, posts to Facebook, and corresponding attachments somewhere around 25,000 people have viewed and shared that DiwataMan fact based analysis showing what Trayvon actually did at the 7-11, just in the past three days.

So where is the Main Stream Media following up on this?

Trayvon checked out from “his” purchase at 6:24. But as this video highlights he didn’t leave right away. About a minute after he walks out, 3 other rather dubious characters walk in. We’ll call them the “Three Stooges”. After they make their purchases and leave at 6:29 Trayvon is seen walking away outside the building. (*The narrator of this video is not associated with the Treehouse, he is an independent U-Tube video guy, and yes, he curses a little at the end. Sorry)

So what was Trayvon waiting outside for? And what did Trayvon and the 3 stooges coordinate after they left? Why did he wait around outside for approximately 5 minutes after he exited the 7-11? Indeed in watching the video, not only is it Trayvon but he is walking away partially backwards while departing with a farewell of sorts.

As far as what he asked Curly (the white guy – one of the 3 stooges) to buy. That question appears answered in the following video. Curly is holding the two bills that Trayvon held in his hand when he exited the building. Curly buys a blunt for Trayvon, and one more, presumably for himself, then after a pause he buys another and then heads outside while Moe (wearing a hoodie like Kenny from Southpark) makes his purchase with a debit card. Apparently while Moe is paying, Curly is outside giving Trayvon the Blunts.

Trayvon’s “blunt use” was well-known to his friends, and close circle, some of them even posted pictures in memorial of Trayvon after his death as captured below courtesy of Wagist:

Here is a video from Diwataman putting the entire thing together:

So lets recap what we know factually:

When checking out Trayvon put two dollar bills in his hand carrying the bag.

Trayvon finished his purchase at 6:24 and left the store.

A minute later, 6:25, Larry, Moe, and Curly enter the store.

Curly has two dollar bills in his hand, and initially buys two Blunts.

Curly decides to buy another blunt and goes into his own wallet for more money.

Curly leaves the building around 6:28 while Moe is checking out.

50 Seconds Later at 6:29 Trayvon is seen walking back toward the Retreat at Twin Lakes saying something in parting to someone standing near the entrance door.

At 6:30pm (according to phone records) Trayvon calls “DeeDee” back. Presumably while en route back home. Trayvon had his hands-free phone ear buds on when he left the 7-11. The Retreat is less than a half mile away. The actual Brandy Green Townhouse is .60/mile away.

Approximately 35 minutes after Trayvon leaves the 7-11 George Zimmerman sees Trayvon entering the retreat via the walk through “shortcut”. At 7:09 George Zimmerman calls police while watching Trayvon at/near the “Club House”.

Trayvon is shot at 7:17pm according to the shot heard on the 911 call tapes.

It took Trayvon 40 minutes to walk less than 1/2 mile from the 7-11 (6:29pm to 7:09pm) to the clubhouse while talking to DeeDee?

The Skittles and Watermelon Juice were found on Trayvon’s body when he was shot, but not the blunt, partial blunt, or marijuana.

Marijuana was found to be present in the blood within Trayvon’s chest cavity. The bullet pierced the heart and stopped normal blood flow.

According to the SPD report: a 711 lighter, photo button, Skittles, and headphones were collected from within the victims pockets. There were no marked or tagged crime scene photographs of any of these items suggesting they were outside the body, or clothing, of the victim at the time he was shot.

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383 Responses to Why The Lastest Defense Discovery Release – Flash Back To DiwataMan and The 7-11 Three Stooges

  1. brutalhonesty says:

    there are still people who after watching the video deny it shows what it shows.

    • lovemygirl says:

      As other’s have said, you could show them a HD video of Trayvon attacking George and they would still say George should not have gotten out of the truck, Trayvon was just defending himself.

      • eastern2western says:

        actually, they are going to claim the video is cgi.

      • jello333 says:

        I’ve listened to that tape a hundred times. Right after George says, “He’s running”, the dispatcher lady tells him, “That’s alright, we’ll take care of it. You just stay in your truck. Am I making myself clear?” But then you can hear George open the door, get out of the truck, and start sprinting after Trayvon. If you listen very carefully, you can hear him loading his gun as he runs. The dispatcher, now clearly angry, orders George, “You stop chasing that poor boy and get back in your truck right this minute, young man!” But George just laughs at her and says, “Yeah whatever, you old hag.”

        It’s right there as plain as day! Why won’t you Zimbots just admit it?

        • libby says:

          Are you saying, Jello that you dont here the bird in the background?

        • LouDaJew says:

          most people that have a CWP already have a round in the chamber. I’ve listened to those tapes, and although it COULD sound like a magazine being tapped on the bottom, it’s just too many times, and done too often. It does not sound like he’s pulling back the slide either. Ket-Tec is crap and cheap and thought maybe the magazine kept falling out. The truth is though it sounded more like a knocking sound like a pattern. I thought about that before and analyzed that sound as well. Heres’ the problem though, even if it was him making sure the magazine was in the pistol, it’s still okay. As long as he wasn’t showing the weapon once he left the truck. If the weapon was not concealed once he left the truck, he’d be in deep.

          • howie says:

            So it was not a Cockatoo? Musta bee a Woodpecker. Or a Raven. Tap, tap, tapping….nevermore.

          • jello333 says:

            You guys all know, I presume, how much I like satire and sarcasm… right? But seriously, as for the tapping sounds, I think it’s pretty certain that it’s George tapping his flashlight (likely on the “doggie station”) trying to get it to work.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              Zimmerman’s statements indicate that he was on RVC for at least part the time he was tapping the flashlight.

              That’s true in two distinct ways. First, Zimmerman mentioned hitting the flashlight.

              ‘Because I was waiting – I had light there. Where I was at. And I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.’ (2/29-3, 13:26-34)

              Second, comparing Zimmerman’s accounts of his movements to the recording of his non-emergency police call, he reach RVC about the time the tapping sounds started, or shortly after.

              I don’t agree that the tapping sounds like metal on metal. I think Zimmerman was hitting the flashlight against his own body, possible the forearm of the hand holding the phone.

              Hitting the flashlight on the doggie station would be likely to scratch or dent one or both. I wouldn’t expect that of someone who cares about the neighborhood the way George clearly does.

              Even if the sounds are metal on metal, there is some kind of utility box, maybe housing a transformer for underground cables, near the RVC end of Zimmerman’s path.

              • jello333 says:

                Wow, thanks for that. I’ve read/listened to about 90% of all the statements, but I obviously missed (or forgot about) this part: “Because I was waiting – I had light there. Where I was at. And I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.” So yeah, very likely NOT on the doggie station. But as for it being on something hard or metal, vs George just tapping in on his hand or on his leg…. I’m still not certain. Either way, at least based on what he said, it wasn’t on the doggie station. Thanks again.

                • John VI says:

                  The mans married. I assume he wears a ring.

                  I know I tap my flashlight against my palms and fingers simply because I grew up when they still used bulbs, so I wouldnt risk tapping one against anything harder than my own hands or Id risk breaking the bulb and having NO light at all. I almost always hit the ring a few times, making an annoying ( well, to me anyways) metallic clicking noise.

                  Ingrained habits are a pain to break. I STILL tap the breaks on ice when Im not consciously thinking about it, even though Ive been driving ABS equiped vehicles for over 10 years. :(

          • mung says:

            No way the noise has anything to do with his gun.

            • jello333 says:

              But cosmic ray guns have a totally distinctive sound. Uh, now that I think about it, they sound a bit like a… like a cockatoo. Oh, wow… :(

        • lovemygirl says:

          The dispatcher or the Cockatoo said that?

        • myopiafree says:

          She could have added that, “you don’t plan to shoot that poo litl back chil like you did that last time – and we had to “cover” for you”? (Eye Roll)!!

        • metrometeor says:

          Wait… the dispatcher is a lady??!?

          • jello333 says:

            Ah, no. That part was just as much a fairy tale as the rest of my comment. I was just being stupid… just making fun of some of the GZ haters. ;)

  2. lovemygirl says:

    Looking back this was an amazing catch. I just wish I could remember where I read a retired LEO that patrolled Miami Gardens for 20 years comments. Basically, he said the circling behavior was common. He also said that his opinion was Trayvon thought George was the law or associated with them. His speculation was he would have thought GZ was part of a jump and grab patrol.

    • LouDaJew says:

      I’ve seen this behavior as well with black youths. The most common surprise attack is when they hide behind a door and jump the person they want to attack. I’ve seen this too many times.

  3. whoseyore says:

    Sundance,
    It could be my computer, but for some reason the first video is only a narrative, no picture. Videos two and three have no picture or sound. The last video has a picture but no sound. By the way, thanks for all of your hard work here.

  4. nomatter_nevermind says:

    That Martin put his earphones and button in his pockets is a disputed point.

    I think the weight of evidence is that he did not.

    • eastern2western says:

      what disputed point are you talking about in here. It is written specifically in the report that the button, ear phone and all of his personal belongings are found in his pockets.

    • sundance says:

      If they were NOT inside his pockets they would have been tagged with a marker photographed and identified as such. The reason for the absence of the marker and photo is they were inside his pockets, with other items, removed post mortem on scene, and replaced in their original positions. It is not disputed in my opinion.

      • lovemygirl says:

        They could have been hung up inside his hoodie since the wire ran from his waist up inside to his head in the 7/11 video. The police mis-categorized a few things that night and the juice was given a marker even though it was inside the hoodie. It would be big if they testify they were found inside his pocket, but I’m not counting on it.

        • eastern2western says:

          u are wrong because any thing that was found out side of trayvon’s body was photographed and tagged for location. If the earphone/head set was found outside of his body, we would had seen a photo already. But, where is the photo?

          • lovemygirl says:

            My point was the juice can was photographed and it was inside the hoodie. I’m just saying they had jeans vs khakis and even shorts, red tennies and white tennies. Until the officers testify we don’t know for sure if they made a mistake in their reports or not. I certainly do not know but if the headphones were curled up in a pocket then the prosecutor should be arrested on the spot if this comes out to be true.

            • eastern2western says:

              if you are saying the earphones were some where in his hoodie when he died, then that will support that trayvon was using headphone when he was attacked which supports dd’s story.

              • lovemygirl says:

                I just don’t know. There were inconsistencies in the various reports. I’m not going to latch onto one report and take it as Gospel. I need backup, plenty of backup before accepting something as true. I also want to know if Tray was wearing droopy drawers when killed. It may sound silly but if he pulled his drawers up before the fight, that is also an indication he was prepping for a fight. We just don’t know from the inconsistent reports yet was my point. As crazy as this case is, I don’t want to base it all on a beat cop potentially misstating something on a report that night.

      • eastern2western says:

        also another thing is the earphones were found disconnected from the phone at the time of martin’s death puts dd’s story in serious doubt. remember that dd was talking to trayvon until he was attacked by the crazy white dude. If her narrative were true, then the phone should be found connected to his head set. However, both phones were found and photographed very far away from trayvon without any head set connected to them. Did how that heck did they managed to talk to each other without the head set being connected and how the heck did dd heard trayvon’s head set felt?

        • lovemygirl says:

          Taking a swing would easily disconnect them, now does a phone automatically switch to the cell phone speakers when disconnected? I don’t know.

          • TandCrumpettes says:

            I don’t use earbuds with a mic, but if someone calls when when I am jogging and listening to music, I hear the ring in my ear. I just disconnect the buds and start talking normally with the phone to my ear. I don’t have to do anything special besides taking the buds out.

            But I have the cheapo free phone that comes with the upgrade. I don’t have a snazzy one. However, considering the “technology” being as easy as it is so simply unplug and talk – I can’t imagine why spiffier phones would make this feature….more difficult. I don’t know why they would ask the user to unplug, hit ‘home,’ hit ‘lock,’ volume up, enter PIN, then talk.

            In my experience, it does just automatically switch over.

      • rumpole2 says:

        In the 184 page discovery, describes the photo pin as being still on TM’s sweat shirt (p 20) but……
        In the same 184 page discovery, the pin is described as being from TM’s pockets

        With just a skim through the 184 pages now I found …. evidence log entries on Pages 07, 22, 31, 45, 51, 58, 66, 75, and 82
        Quote:
        DMS•10 PERSONAL EFFECTS
        One (1) red “711/1 brand name lighter, photo button, bag of skittles, and headphones.
        and collected from with in the victim’s pockets.

      • jello333 says:

        If I recall correctly, some reports say the stuff was in his pockets, some say it was on the ground near the body. Assuming nobody is lying or mistaken, then that means at one time or another both observations were true. And that means that the stuff was either 1) in his pockets at first, and someone took them out; or 2) on the ground at first and someone put them in the pockets. The former would make some sense, for instance like you say, if they were “removed post mortem on scene”, and then later “replaced” back into the pockets. Nothing would be wrong with that. On the other hand, if they were initially on the ground, seems to me that someone would be in BIG trouble if they just decided to pick them up and stick them in Trayvon’s pockets. That would be some SUPER bad police work.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        ‘It is not disputed in my opinion.’

        Then you are one of those people who ignores evidence that challenges your preconceptions.

        I don’t fault you for disagreeing with my own conclusion. I do fault you for refusing to even see that there is evidence on the other side.

        Every point on this subject that has been raised on this thread, is at least touched upon in the TalkLeft thread that I linked. There is more discussion on an earlier TalkLeft thread. (The first two pages of the early thread contain some misinformation that is corrected in later comments.)

        Are you not aware that photographs showing any part of Martin’s uncovered body are not approved for public release at this time?

        • eastern2western says:

          if you are accusing the crime scene investigator making a mistake, then the whole report of how the evidence is collected is also in serious doubt too because it is also possible that the report is fill with mistakes too.

        • sundance says:

          approved by who? I have those pictures and will post if I damn well please. I choose not to because they are irrelevent.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            ‘approved by who?’

            By Judge Nelson, and before her Judge Lester.

            • sundance says:

              Well if they ain’t approved, then how do I have them ? Go figure. You’re making stuff up.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                ‘You’re making stuff up.’

                Eighteenth Judicial Circuit, Seminole County, Florida

                P. 5

                ‘The media interveners concede that autopsy photographs and crime scene photographs that depict the victim’s body are exempt from disclosure pursuant to Fla. Stat. §406.135. . . . Any photographs showing the victim’s body remain closed.’

                • sundance says:

                  Asked and answered several months ago. See “Earnhardt Law” you are citing.

                  On March 16th the family of Trayvon Martin nullified the statute with their open approvals for the photographs. However, the judge ruled on the autopsy, as he should have, and kept the pictures of the autopsy out of the public relm. Rightly so IMHO is is not pertinent.

                  However, Crime Scene pictures existed and were openly available (via sunshine) prior to the decision not to show them. I have seen them, (crime scene body pics) I have copies, they are of no substantive value, therefore I have not posted them.

                  Again, I repeat. If it was not marker identified, photographed, and labeled, it was in his pockets or on his person. Period.

                  • nomatter_nevermind says:

                    So why did you call me a liar, instead of just saying I was mistaken?

                    To the best of my knowledge this order is still in effect, and I will believe that until I see evidence to the contrary.

        • sundance says:

          The discrepancies between the “in pocket” evidence vs. “out of pocket” evidence is easily reconciled. I have actually spoken to these people, not just read their reports. the pocket contents were removed when looking for ID. They were replaced. Various PD folks saw the actual body during this process, that’s why some saw them on the ground, others did not.

          The only things OUTSIDE of the pockets in the crime scene were the items marked and photographed with the exception of the Watermelon Juice can. That was photographed on top of the victim (tarp covering him) because it could not be placed easily back into his pockets. That’s why there are pictures of that item *on* the tarp at the scene.

          If it was not marked, photgraphed, and location identified, it was in his pockets. Period.

          That’s why it is not in dispute.

          • rumpole2 says:

            Thanks Sundance.
            That is the first time I have seen that explanation. It you have posted it before… sorry I missed it.
            I have actually been mildly troubled by the in vs out of pocket discrepancies. Mainly because if there WERE as many discrepancies as are bandied about, then it would have led to much arguing back and forth in court.. much like the bickering at some forums.
            I accept what you say.
            I assume that includes the “photo pin on his sweatshirt” and that was sitting on the outside of his sweatshirt, rather than pinned to it and that WAS originally in TM’s pocket as the evidence logs record.

            • diwataman says:

              Whoa, hold yer horses there tonto. What’s going on with the headphones has never been clear. I agree with lovemygirl and others who say the headphones were running up through the shirt from the waist through to the neck-hole. After the assault on George by the black, unarmed, 17 year old Martin, and moving of the body there was some length of the headphones hanging out on the ground and some length still inside the shirt. If it were completely on the ground it would have been given an object marker and photographed but instead it was put in a bag with the other items found on Trayvon. This explains why some say they were on the ground and why other say they were collected from the pockets.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                The very same log entry also includes the button on the list of items ‘Located and collected from with in [sic] the victim’s pockets.’

                Occam’s razor says the explanation is one careless log entry.

                • diwataman says:

                  Hopefully we’ll soon get to see more of what the SPD has in their file that might clear quite a few things up as what we have is limited. But I agree the headphones and button were more than likely not first found in his pockets, they just got lumped together with the other items that were in his pockets and labeled that way.

                • rumpole2 says:

                  Occam’s razor would suggest to me that if the headphone were an item on the ground it would have a Marker # as well as 8×10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows on the back of each one. Also IF a wiret was running up through TM’s shirt that would have been noted, it’s removal noted.
                  As far as I am concerned Occam’s Razor applied means the items were logged as “Located and collected from victim’s pocket” because that is where they were found.

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    .Insert..paragraph… on the back of each one

                  • jello333 says:

                    Hey!

                  • diwataman says:

                    That’s not the way it works. You have to take into account all of the observations made in the reports then form the hypothesis of which the least complex one would be a careless log entry as opposed to the more complex one that say this, this and this happened. Occam’s Razor says you pick the least complicated explanation over the more complicated one.

              • lovemygirl says:

                Oh, you just had to mention he was a black, 17 year old unarmed kid and forgot to mention the skittles and tea? ;) No, I don’t buy it as fact that the headphones were neatly tucked in the pocket nor the button. I think it was just sloppy reporting.

                • libby says:

                  I wonder why chad needed a lighter

                • ottawa925 says:

                  I agree love. They just took stuff and put it in his pockets, not recording that something was taken from here, and put there, and why it was removed and why it was put where they put it. We have seen the video at 7-11 where it is obvious Trayvon is wearing the photo button in a certain position on his hoodie, then after shooting, the photo button ends up in his pocket, one could make the argument that Trayvon put it in his pocket in anticipation of an encounter and not wanting anything sharp or a pin that could inadvertently cause him injury. I think if you look at the location of the pin on Trayvon, I am not convinced it was necessary to remove it to perform CPR either. I am tempted to think police did a shoddy job on handling any evidence surrounding the body. Photos certainly could have been taken to show what was where after they turned the body over. Makes it difficult to understand how the phone got separated from the earbuds that are now neatly in his pocket. Just bad police work, and there was no need to remove anything to do CPR. Would it be wise to do CPR on a body that has a gunshot wound to the chest? Wouldn’t blood gush out? IDK, just asking.

                  • James says:

                    I’m actually surprised TM’s clothes weren’t cut away by the paramedics to get access to the wound, the reports state that a police officer initiated CPR and the paramedics continued it for several minutes before pronouncing TM dead at 7:30.

              • rumpole2 says:

                Then it is still frustrating that such a very simple matter is not resolved.
                If evidence is logged as “Located and and collected from victim’s pocket” then surely that is where they were found. Certainly not on the ground,… there is no Marker #
                Where is the description of Headphone wire trailing up through shirt, partially on the ground?

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            So Sgt. Raimondo went through Martin’s pockets, found the photo button, and pinned it to the front of Martin’s hoodie, all before he turned the body over?

          • lovemygirl says:

            OK, now you explained why the juice was tagged. That is something I wasn’t aware of. Thanks SD. We don’t have your background and knowledge sometimes, or all the time.

          • lovemygirl says:

            Now, would the wires from Trayvon’s cellphone on his hip clip, up through the hoodie to his earbuds be considered in pocket or out of pocket? At the 7-11 they ran from his hip mounted cell to his head inside of the hoodie. Do your sources indicate that they literally were removed and in the pocket? If that is the case the prosecutor really need to go to prison.

          • JOC56 says:

            Are you saying there is a photograph of Martin post mortem which definitively shows the photo button was not on the outside of Martin’s sweatshirt? If so, I would love to see it.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              That wouldn’t prove anything, unless there was something in the photo that somehow showed the picture was taken before the DMS-10 items were collected.

            • ottawa925 says:

              I thought the photo button was removed to perform CPR.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                ‘I thought the photo button was removed to perform CPR.’

                I don’t think there is anything in the discovery to suggest that. None of the EMTs mentioned the button in their FDLE interviews.

    • lovemygirl says:

      I agree. It may or may not have been the case, but I do remember the button being mentioned in relation to the bullet hole. Just to be a smart ass I do wonder if his pants were hiked up for the fight or still hanging low.

      • libby says:

        did you know that traybots are so dumb they think you can have a 1 minute mma bout without your shirt moving an inch?

      • MJW says:

        That’s on page 2 of the 284 page discovery PDF, in Gilbreath’s April 2 interview with Alaya. It says: “Martin was flipped over and Alaya saw a gunshot wound on his torso under a photo button Martin was wearing.”

        Does “under” mean the wound was lower than the button, or was it covered by the button? Why didn’t Alaya mention the button in is original reports. It seems like something that would stick in ones mind. Did he do chest compressions through the clothing, and remove the button because it was in the way? Early on, they must have pulled up the shirts to seal the wound, but the exact sequence of events is unclear.

        The big question is, why wasn’t the button tested for DNA and gunshot residue?

  5. justfactsplz says:

    Where are the full toxicology reports on Trayvon? I think his pockets probably had a small amount of drugs or drug residue in them that night.

    • libby says:

      he was high on cough syrup that gave a pcp like high (he should have positive results for pcp use since dxm-the active ingredient in most cough syrups over the counter give false positives for pcp as well as a pcp like high and pcp fueled aggression

  6. sundance says:

    I have not posted too many threads about TM discovery items because the real key information is not being posted anywhere, yet. The M-DSPD items will bring on the massive tidal wave onslaught…. That is the aspect most should be looking to review.

    These reciprocals, at this point are just highlighting what investigative avenues Don West has followed and what he has found of value in supporting the True narrative of the events of the fateful Sunday night.

    Combine them with the sunglight of the M-DSPD information, and reconcile them against the backdrop of Trayvon Martin being removed from the Fulton House, and you will see an entire new narrative exposed in evidence.

    Unfortunately, the rabid Trayvon folks who cannot see anything objective except the 12 year old kid in the Hollister T-Shirt, will find someway to ignore or reconcile the facts to fit their preferred mindset. Best to ignore them, and just focus on the truth.

    The Scheme Team locked the front door of the School Records, but they forgot, or more aptly did not even know, the back door of the M-DSPD records were not under the same protective court orders. It is those police records that will show the character of a troubled 16/17 year old, gang member, drug dealer, and known character within the M-DSPD community..

    • jello333 says:

      And these people — Sybrina, Tracy, Crump, NatJack, and all the rest — they KNEW all this, from the start. Now it’s one thing to lie about a troubled young man so as to try to make him look not so bad. If we’re talking in a vacuum, in which you can convince yourself those lies “don’t hurt anyone”… well, that’s one thing. But what we have here is something FAR different. Because what their lies are ALSO doing is destroying ANOTHER young man’s life. These people KNOW that George is a decent guy, they KNOW he’s innocent, and yet…. I’m sorry, but because of what they’ve done to George, what they’ve INTENTIONALLY, WITH COLD-BLOODED MALICE done to George, I can have absolutely no sympathy for even Tracy Martin or Sybrina Fulton.

      • sundance says:

        That’s why effective 3/17/12 I no longer had any sympathy for TrayMom or TrayDad. At that exact date they agreed to become part of the conspiracy. The truth no longer mattered to them, it became about financial justice. PERIOD

        • Alexandra M. says:

          Yes Yes Yes and YES!! The more cornball, phony and contrived “Saint Sabrina” WordPress articles that pop up, the more I’m convinced of the sordid grand scheme. Disgusting. Just disgusting.

          • howie says:

            817.034(4)(a)1., 2., 3. Fla. Stat.
            To prove the crime of Organized Fraud, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
            1. (Defendant) engaged in a scheme to defraud.
            2. (Defendant) thereby obtained [property] [(specify property if alleged in the information)].
            Degrees. Give as applicable.
            If you find the defendant guilty of Organized Fraud, you must also determine if the State has proved beyond a reasonable doubt whether:
            a. The aggregate value of the property obtained was $50,000 or more;
            b. The aggregate value of the property obtained was $20,000 or more but less than $50,000;
            c. The aggregate value of the property obtained was less than $20,000.

        • tara says:

          That’s why effective 3/17/12 I no longer had any sympathy for TrayMom or TrayDad.

          I was converted through the facts presented here on your fabulous web site. I initially had sympathy for Trademark’s parents, especially Sybrina. I made every excuse for them, gave them the benefit of every doubt. But ultimately facts and logic forced me to change my mind. They are slime, pure and simple. They know who is responsible for their son’s death, and it’s not GZ. This never would have happened if they’d been better parents. Every parent should teach their children to assume they will lose if they confront a stranger, especially in states where concealed carry is allowed. To use a phrase from a rap song, Trademark “picked the wrong mother to f*ck with”. His mistake, not GZs.

      • howie says:

        This was preparation for the hoax. If proven it will destroy their entire scam. It would expose it from the start as a manufactured blatant lie. To seal the records knowing what was in them, then publish the exact opposite is pretty clearly a fraud. Now, there are all kinds of fraud that is criminal, and even more that is civil.

    • diwataman says:

      You’ve got mail.

      • sundance says:

        I’ll reply here. Trayvon was NOT living with his mom. This is a fact. Nor was he living with his father, Tracy. Again, this is a fact.

        The truth about why Trayvon was not living with either Sybrina or Tracy will come forth, and as with the DeeDee narrative, I stand behind what I said about the living arrangements.

        Trayvon was not living with his mom, because during interactions with M-DSPD it was determined the “best” place for him to be was with his uncle “Stephen”, who was home 24/7 and able to monitor 100%. The monitoring of Trayvon was needed because of the consequences to his behavior. The behavior will come out in the discovery.

        I believe the long post about Trayvon records (GZ site) is because Mark O’Mara, through Don West, is already familiar with the same information. The exact details of that will come out soon enough. The question is “who will show it first”?

        Also, please remember all of this activity is Don West, not Mark O’Mara. O’Mara is an attorney for GZ in name only… Mark O’Mara is “DINY” (defense in name only). He signs the stuff, but the motions, the analysis, the research, the investigations, the entire defense of GZ is from West. MoM is drinking mimossas with pinky finger protruding, while West does all the work. Once the stuff is filed, about a day before trial, MoM sits down and tries to catch up (he crams) so he can argue the merits of Don West’s defense in court.

        Sad, but true.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I agree with you S.D. on both statements. Trayvon was absolutely not living with either parent at the time of his death. Also, concerning Omara, I agree. I feel so much better that West is on the case than I would feel if he was not. George is innocent and West will be the one to prove it with the evidence.

    • John Galt says:

      “The Scheme Team locked the front door of the School Records, but they forgot, or more aptly did not even know, the back door of the M-DSPD records were not under the same protective court orders. It is those police records that will show the character of a troubled 16/17 year old, gang member, drug dealer, and known character within the M-DSPD community.”

      You already requested those? Wow, I just recently figured out they weren’t protected by FERPA. Is that where Miami Herald got their info?

      • sundance says:

        I’ve gone far deeper than the media. FAR deeper.

        • libby says:

          no offense here (none intended, I swear)
          the media didnt dig at all (they bought every lie the scheme team came up with and made up a few of their own).
          I suggest that you went far far far far far far far far far deeper than the media!!!!!
          And I thank U!

    • janc1955 says:

      Pointing out the obvious, but under the circumstances — the fact that Trayvon was so out of control and his bio parents were so not willing to deal with him that he wasn’t even living under the same roof with either parent at the time of his death — as we draw ever closer to learning the real truth about the real Trayvon and the real Martin/Fulton clan, it strikes me that Sybrina has a massive amount of gall to continue to show her face in public demanding laws be changed because her estranged son is dead. I swear I think GZ should sue Fulton and Martin for allowing their out of control son to prowl the streets of his (George’s) neighborhood without supervision.

      • jello333 says:

        If there’s an afterlife, Trayvon is watching all this. He’s seeing his mom and dad (and others) run around begging for money and getting famous, all the while referring to their son as a frightened little innocent child. I guarantee you that if Trayvon is wathcing all this… he’s HATING it! “Oh my GOD! Hey Mom! Hey Dad! Will you PLEASE go home and SHUT YOUR MOUTHS! PLEASE!”

        • Sharon says:

          Do you think Travon (if he were watching) would have a different perspective with regard to immorality, violence, arrogance and self-importance?

          • jello333 says:

            I don’t know what he’d think about the lying and fraud in general. Maybe he’d be fine with it. But what I DO think he’d have a problem with is that people are getting rich and famous off his DEATH. And maybe more importantly, that they’re portraying him as a scared little helpless boy. And THAT?… yeah, i think he would be FREAKING over that.

          • John VI says:

            his only perspective is putting a crink in his neck.

      • libby says:

        its ok to call him feral (his parents never taught him a thing about impulse control it seems)

  7. justfactsplz says:

    Sundance, as usual, a wonderful job on putting together these current threads. Posting the videos and aerial view photos have been most helpful to review and put things in perspective. These police records you refer to will be very helpful to the defense in proving Trayvon was a violent person and why he “looked like he was on drugs or something”.

  8. Alexandra M. says:

    It was D-Man’s enlightening (and eye-opening) 7/11 video analysis that first brought me to the CTH. The carefully-investigated articles connecting of ALL the sordid dots (that led to the malicious persecution of Mr. Zimmerman) have kept me here. Thanks to Sundance, all the Mods and the smart-as-h3ll posters…..this place is the absolute MUST READ site on the GZ case. Is there any doubt about it at this point? The rabid and desperate Trayvonistas as well the scheme team (and their lackies) anxiously comb through the CTH multiple times a day. I know this to be true having been a wee spy myself this summer :). The fact they check the site AND all comments just says it all to me. They fear the information and probably never in their wildest nightmares expected to be exposed by a bunch of realistic Patriots who refused to be bottle-fed by the MSM and the race baiters. Kudos Treehousers…..I’m so very grateful!

    • diwataman says:

      lol, seems I recruited a few folks to the last refuge with that 711 stuff, I had no idea, lol. But hey, yes, it was and always will be a team effort no doubt.

      “They fear the information”

      My god aint that the truth. I’ve never seen such a herculean effort put forth to maintain such a fantasy about some unknown people that, and don’t take this the wrong way, really have no significance; George and Trayvon.

      The people who claim to fight for justice for Trayvon want the state and/ABC to fight to stop the release of the recordings of DeeDee. If their case is strong and believe so much in their “truth” then why fight the release of this or any information for that matter?

      I think what truly shows the absurdity of it all is that moment on the Dr. Phil show when Dr. Phil was expressing to Jahvaris about the tests of the “father”, Tracy? DOH! Giving Jahvaris, Tracy’s last name for the show is like the little cherry on top too, lol. They’ve created a complete work of fiction and the people buy it. To challenge that perception is to challenge their religion. The tryvonits are true believers.

      @25:25

      • boutis says:

        Dr Phil is an expert in the psychology of picking juries. This is how he met Oprah when she was being sued for libel by the Texas Cattleman Assc. He had a firm that worked for trial lawyers in picking the dumbest jurors who could be manipulated into believing anything. Oprah offered him a new gig. A TV show where he can manipulate audiences which is essentially the same thing that he was already doing. He is very familiar with free speech laws and libel in that you can say anything if that is what you “believe”.

      • lovemygirl says:

        If I hear “No Justice, No Peace” again in my lifetime, I may fart in their general direction.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Not so much a religion to itself, a new one, as the current phase, the currently popular martyr cult, within the same religion/ideology that was at work in the Duke lacrosse affair. I don’t say ‘case’, because what we are talking about is a cultural phenomenon much larger than the legal case, although centered around it.

        • diwataman says:

          No doubt about that, this is and will always be bigger than this one case, but this case I think is truly unique in that so much of nearly everything has gone into it is some form of myth, manipulation or lie. Even when faced with the simple reality that it was Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail instead of Iced Tea becomes something of a sore point for some people. What else can I liken that to, maybe the shroud of turin or something?, lol, I don’t know. It’s like watching a newly created religion occurring right before our eyes. Yes it’s still based off black victim-hood and will forever be institutionalized in the universities as an example right up there with Emmett Till, but this thing has morphed into something I’ve never seen before.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            I think the sheer volume of deceit is a consequence of the decline of old media, one might say a symptom of its death-throes. In their struggle to survive, the values of journalism are increasingly sacrificed to those of entertainment.

            • ytz4mee says:

              The bread and butter of “journalism” since the beginning of time has always been in shame and scandal – real and manufactured. Go back and read some of the papers from the era of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and what was written/created about the political opposition. Unfortunately for the “journalists”, the ability to “shock” anymore has been severely diminished by the pro-hedonistic, humanistic philosophy of the progressives.

            • MJW says:

              I disagree. I think the deceit was always there. The fact that we know about it is a consequence of the rise of the new media.

        • libby says:

          Duke lacrosse was no mere affair; it was a full blown fiasco

  9. Ron Callaway says:

    Years and years ago when driving home 50 miles after working the second shift I would at times light up a doobie. Most times I would become very paranoid and think every car that came up behind me was the cops. If TM smoked lot of pot that night just before the event, he could have
    been very paranoid about GZ. Just saying.

    • tara says:

      I had the same experience as you. Paranoia, always. That’s why I stopped smoking the stuff.

    • ftsk420 says:

      I agree it does make you paranoid but not to the point of violence fastest way home is the best way for any paranoid pot head I ever met. The amount in his system showed he may have smoked the night before or that morning but not right before he was shot.

    • libby says:

      other drugs make a person paranoid, also

  10. TandCrumpettes says:

    I know I’m running the risk of sounding like a complete dolt here, but here goes:

    What exactly does “notice of reciprocal discovery” mean in this context? According to GZlegalcase, “The notice cites several items found in the records of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement that had not previously been disclosed or furnished to the defense.”

    Okay. But in the notice itself, under numero uno it states, “papers and objects…which have been previously provided to undersigned counsel by the State.”

    So I suppose off the bat, I don’t understand whether or not the defense had these items to begin with. The way I understand it, the blurb says they did not, while the actual document (in my understanding at least) says they did.

    Its highly likely I simply don’t understand the legaleze, so forgive me for needing my hand held!

    Secondly, I really don’t understand what this “means” as a whole. It seems to me that this is the answer to Nelson’s request that the defense go to FDLE and see what the State has not turned over, though BDLR claimed “everything” had been. The defense found several things – whoopsie! haha! Am I really surprised, though?

    But what is the point of the notice? Is this to be discussed at the next hearing? Is this merely a form of record to prove the prosecution’s mishandling of the case?

    I guess I’m asking what the “prognosis,” for lack of better word, is to this notice?

      • TandCrumpettes says:

        Thanks! Though I probably should have clarified, I know what the term means, I just didn’t know what it “means” – in the big picture. Am I correct in assuming that this is saying, “Gotcha – there’s a whole bunch of crap you conveniently left out.”

        I guess what I am asking is why – two whys – why was the notice filed, and why is this a notice and not a request? I guess I’m looking for what purpose this serves.

        Regarding the word, “not,” isn’t this something they need to fix? Yikes!

        • diwataman says:

          O’Mara has to provide the state with everything he plans on using in this case, through a “Notice” is one way of doing that. Here is another one from back in June(and notice it has the same language which just must be some general statement for this type of document);

          http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/notice%20of%20reciprocal%20discovery.pdf

        • diwataman says:

          Oh, I see to what else your saying now.

          I think where some confusion is, is that O’Mara went to the FDLE, went through everything, and got a copy of what he wanted from there. He doesn’t need to ask the judge for those items because he got them himself. She included in the hearing by saying that if O’Mara couldn’t get the items he wanted from the FDLE to come back to her, request each item, then she would take care of it at that time. Since he got it he won’t have to ask now.

          • TandCrumpettes says:

            Thanks a million!

            So what purpose does it serve to add that little jab in there about it not being previously provided? Rather, what future purpose will it serve? Had this been “Request for Judge Nelson to Publicly Spank Bernie,” I would laugh and sing, “Heee’s gonna geeet it!”

            But being a regular ‘ol everyday notice, I guess that’s what’s throwing me off!

            • hooson1st says:

              It is a way of educating the judge as to the tenor of the case.

            • jello333 says:

              I think MOM and West, esp. West, have every intention of eventually going after Bernie and the others. But it’s much harder to do now, while Bernie is still in an official capacity in an ongoing case. Remember what West said… he can’t depose Bernie… YET.

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            I believe that this is Mark’s way of “getting on the record” even more indications that the prosecution has purposely overlooked certain things in the files. This may be another attempt to “educate” Judge Nelson to the chicanery going on right under her nose, or (more likely) he is laying the groundwork for future appeals. It is even remotely possible that he is attempting to demonstrate a pattern that might later be construed as prosecutorial misconduct.

            On another note, I have a question for the guru of all things in evidence (that’s YOU D-man): Has anyone ever dissected the crime scene diagram by CST Diana Smith? I am trying to determine the EXACT distance between the two reference points in her diagram (A and B) that she took her measurements from.

            I have looked at floor plans for the townhome models available in the RTL and the numbers just don’t add up. Point A is the northwest patio pillar of witness 13’s place, and (from what I can determine) he lives in the “Cancun” model which appears to be 26′ wide. Point B is the southwest patio pillar of the unit next door, and those patios are 10′ wide. That gives me a minimum distance of 36′ between points A + B. BUT, if you look at the position of the first-aid kit (item marker 4) the combined measurements only add up to 33′ 2″. Even a dummy like me knows that the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, and it is obvious from the photos that item 4 does not lie along the straight line between A + B. Have you (or anyone else) ever looked into this?

    • jello333 says:

      Nothing AT ALL dumb about those questions. I’m not 100% sure of some of the answers myself. I shall await the Elders’ response.

    • John Galt says:

      “But what is the point of the notice?”

      To comply with Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.220. Read what the notice says about Rule 3.220 and read the rule. The rule requires the defense to list discovery materials they intend to use at trial.

  11. diwataman says:

    Speaking of reciprocal discovery, aside from Trayvon’s school records, has there been anything introduced in this case from the defense that’s not already in the State’s discovery? O’Mara has had this case from 9 months, don’t ya think he might have introduced something by now?

    • howie says:

      Why should he? All the states objective evidence exonerates Zimmerman.

    • lovemygirl says:

      I do not pretend to know the legal games that go on. I just know that the State has nothing if the Sunshine Laws are really true. Even if they have evidence that George pursued Trayvon after hanging up (unlikely with an led keychain light) and somehow chased Trayvon back to the path that led to George’s truck, I still don’t get the case. There is no one that saw George “Lay a hand” on Trayvon nor does Trayvon have any defensive wounds. This is self defense 101 and at this time, there cannot be a bombshell not released or hinted at legally that I know of. They based their entire case on naughty words, a fictitious chase and Dee Dee’s garbled speech and interpretation.
      I really am befuddled. This is the most sickening case based on racists yelling racism I have ever seen.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Zimmerman had a round in the chamber and a full magazine. See 20/184, third and second paragraphs from the bottom of the page.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          Sorry, that was supposed to be responding to a different post.

        • dexter says:

          Zimmerman said he was pounding his inoperative flashlight on something, and it’s believable, since he had no idea the sound would be caught on the dispatcher call, which it was. It also helps refute the claim that he was following Trayvon, since his breathing and voice were normal, and there was no wind noise. You can’t follow someone standing in oner place.

      • jello333 says:

        I was checking out some of their Twitter feeds last night. These people are a trip. Many of them say George had his gun out as he chased the little child all over the complex. When he finally caught up to Trayvon, he grabbed him by the shirt, while aiming the gun at him, thereby causing the child to start screaming for his life. And I’m talking about some of the major players… they really believe this stuff, or at least pretend to believe it.

        Oh, and here’s a good one I hadn’t heard before. One of them said something like, “Zimmerman claims that after he was punched in the nose, he was scared, and staggered and stumbled around. Well if he was really so scared, then why didn’t he just RUN? No, instead he staggers around. He’s a liar. If he was really hurt and really scared, he would have RAN after he was punched.”

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      From all I can see he has done nothing other than take depositions and issue a few subpoenas. No evidence of any investigative work that I can tell. I find THAT rather disturbing.

      • libby says:

        I find it par for the course….they take your money, but worry more about how they will deal with these persecutors in the future and worry a whole lot less about their client.

    • John Galt says:

      “O’Mara has had this case from 9 months, don’t ya think he might have introduced something by now?”

      Per Rule 3.220, documents and witness list are due “Within 15 days after receipt by the defendant of the Discovery Exhibit furnished by the prosecutor”.

      The prosecutor has been dribbling out the discovery, rather than complying with Rule 3.220, apparently in conformance with some sort of agreement between the State and the defense. What effect does that have on defendant’s documents due date?

      Witness lists are due March 27, 2013 per Nelson’s Amended Scheduling Order, which trumps Rule 3.220.

      Does that means that documents are also due March 27 ?

      I dunno.

    • sundance says:

      D-Man and TadCrumpettes. Most of the items considered in evidence have been what the prosecution has given the defense via discovery.

      Keep in mind there is only two statutory qualifiers for the discovery presented by the prosecution. One: The items they intend to use in the case against GZ, and Two: any items considered “brady” evidence that would prove, on lend merit toward, exhoneration.

      There are thousands upon thousands of items the prosecution has “investigated”, but they only need to give to the Defense those items they plan to use in court against him. That is their legal responsibility to discovery. Just because they have other stuff, does not mean they have an obligation to give it to West/O’Mara.

      O’Mara/West have been reviewing the state evidence as noted. However, additionally WEST has done his own investigations into other aspects the state has not followed. Hence, the school records, M-DSPD, social media, etc. etc.

      The state only chases evidence that supports their case.
      The defense chases evidence that the state provides, *AND*, evidence that supports their defense.
      The State does not generally chase the defense evidence – they are focused only on prosecuting their original affidavit. The exhoneration material is “generally” only looked at by the state prior to the decision to charge. Once the decision to charge is made, the state only looks to substantiate that charge.

      So any material that weakens their case, even if they discover it, they will not generally persue. However, if it substantialy exhonerates the defendant they are obligated to tell the defense about it.

      West, has mountains of research and investigative material that he has found to defend George Zimmerman. Only after he is fully comfortable with the vetting of said material, will he release it as reciprocol discovery to the prosecution.

      The latest recipricol discovery is merely stuff the prosecution has already looked at and decided did not support their charge. Inside that prosecution material, via the FDLE, is some stuff West feels supports GZ, hence he reciprocates to the prosecution saying this material *may be* used by us in the defense – and pointing to the fact they were already aware of it, because it comes from the FDLE source itself.

      Including the material in a discovery does not mean you *will* use it, it merely means you *might* use it.

      West has far more independent defense material than the state, for obvious reasons. The state has no vested interest in defending the person they are charging.

      • howie says:

        Right. The state is only trying to protect its case. To avoid losing, due to Brady, they “give it up if it hurts their case.” The evidence they uncover that helps the defendant. Although they should, they don’t have to follow leads that hurt their case.

  12. ejarra says:

    Many months ago, back when the video of the 7-11 came out, I wondered if they had a video of the car lot that was in direct line between the 7-11 and the RTL. It was a Toyota dealership as I recall. I would find it hard to believe that they don’t have cameras set up watching their cars. Maybe it was too late after the fact and they no longer had a tape of that night, but it would have been valuable for a time line. When I was 17 and was passing a car lot, it would have been imposible for me NOT to walk in it and look at the cars.

  13. Justice4All says:

    I remember being 17. Trayvon went to the store to get a blunt, not to get skittles. Trayvon pulled what we referred to as a “Hey Mister” and asked the 3 stooges to buy him a blunt. Trayvon then went and found somewhere to smoke his blunt (possibly with the 3 stooges). Trayvon ran back to Brandi’s house and stashed the weed on her patio and went back to confront George. Tracy and Brandi found Trayvon’s stash on the patio several days later and got high as fark in memory of the little homie.

    • LouDaJew says:

      Trayvon was a deceptive little kid, and so are his parents. remember when Brandy said he was sitting on the poach. LOL

  14. Chip Bennett says:

    Things are about to get quite interesting, indeed. I have a feeling that the Martin supporters are going to regret their naive goading of the defense to “get on with it”. The defense appears to be on the verge of doing so, and I don’t think the Martin supporters are much going to like what transpires.

    • ytz4mee says:

      +1
      Cue the threats of widespread violence if GZ is actually accorded his rights to a fair and impartial hearing.

    • LouDaJew says:

      when I see the day that the NAACP is considered a hate grouip I will be happy.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Yes, but the defense better hurry up. There are only 97 days left until the date for the immunity hearing, and final witness lists (including experts) are due in only 67 days! How long did it take him to get the FDLE, FBI, SPD files, School Records AND Crump’s copy of the DeeDee recording? If THAT is any indication of how long it will take to get the rest of what he needs, he may have ALREADY waited TOO LONG!

      On that note, has O’Mara subpoena’d the actual heart phone itself, to see if the memory chip contains any voice samples of the deceased? Does he have an accredited audio/voice analysis expert ready to make comparisons to the 911 tapes if such voice exemplars are found?

      Has he pursued the items missing from discovery, such as the full toxicology report from NMS Laboratories? Does he have an expert ready to interpret what we already know about the THC levels found in the deceased’s system? What about the other items on D-man’s list?

      Has he attempted to subpoena the credit card transactions from 7-11 to determine who the 3 stooges were, let alone locate and depose them?

      Once he has the Gutman tape (if he ever gets one) how long will it take him to depose Gutman, DeeDee, Tracy, and Ben Crump? (we all know Crump is going to delay as long as he possibly can!)

      Has he even started to assemble whatever expert witnesses that he expects to call to interpret the DNA evidence in the discovery, and to rebut the conclusions that the FDLE crime lab reached in THEIR analysis of the DNA evidence?

      Will he seek depositions from the ME, and does he intend to raise any questions about the abrasion found on the 4th finger on the deceased’s left hand to determine if it was fresh?

      Does he plan to subpoena the SRO’s at the deceased’s schools, or call them as witnesses at the immunity hearing if the school records indicate there is something substantial to demonstrate a pattern of violent or criminal behavior in the deceased’s immediate past?

      O’Mara has a LOT of work to do, and (in some cases) only 67 more days to get it done. Remind me again, HOW long did it take to get the tape from Crump, the files from the FBI, and the school records from Miami. March 27th ain’t that far away, baby!

      Did he ever attempt to substantiate or verify the allegations that the deceased had an altercation with a bus driver, as indicated by his cousin’s tweets? Will he hire an investigator to locate the bus driver (if he/she exists) and depose him/her?

      • rumpole2 says:

        And….. WHERE ARE THE PING LOGS

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          Ahhh yes, the PING LOGS. I forgot to mention THEM. I have always thought that they would be of little value, other than to show that the state made at least SOME attempt to verify the phone record handed to them by Tracy. And, maybe later, to validate the same when they received Tracy’s records directly from T-Mobile. In this way, they would (or would not) show that the prosecutor was exercising “due diligence” and not merely running to court with something that appeared to support their case, but was unverified.

          On the other hand, I really don’t see what the ping logs, themselves, could tell US. They won’t pinpoint the precise location of the deceased during his travel to and from the 7-11. At best, they MIGHT show if he deviated greatly from the direct path to take a short cut, or maybe went somewhere to smoke a blunt, but they won’t be able to tell us (for example) that he went all the way to Brandy’s and then doubled back to the T, or if he simply hid in the bushes at the T and waited for George to walk by.

          They call records for DeeDee’s number will tell us if she called (or was called FROM) the heart phone.

          The phone number of the heart phone itself will tell us if the phone was actually part of Tracy’s plan on the night of 2/26. IF it wasn’t, so much for his story about finding “DeeDee” (Is it possible to add the heart phone to his plan and billed retroactively and *after the fact*?-doubtful)

          The call records for the heart phone will tell us if the deceased called anyone else, for whatever purpose, during the same time frame.

          The internal memory of the heart phone will have the exact times of the calls (to the second) on it, so the timeline for DeeDee’s call can be refined to determine if she actually WAS on the phone with the deceased immediately prior to the incident, or if the call disconnected before it ever happened.

          So, other than (possibly) demonstrating a lack of due diligence on the part of the prosecution, what value do the Ping Logs have for the defense?

          • rumpole2 says:

            Waltherppk can answer that far better than I.

            I hope he pops in.

            In a case wheer the accused, the “victim”, and the “star witness” are ALL supposedly using telephone up to within minutes (seconds) of the “crime”.
            And phone conversations are a critical part of the evidence………
            It is absolutely ludicrous that Ping logs were not sought and provided very early on.
            If nothing else, they provide irrefutable confirmation of the various calls… which clearly we still lack after 10 months.
            If they were obtained why are they not available after 10 months?

            • justfactsplz says:

              The fact that we have not seen them is because they are not beneficial to the prosecution’s case.

              • Chip Bennett says:

                The fact that we have not seen them is because they are not beneficial to the prosecution’s case.

                I don’t get how that is possible, though. Something like ping logs would either corroborate the existence of the phone connection through which the State’s star witness claims to have overheard the confrontation – and thus would be admitted as evidence – or else they would prove that such phone connection did not take place – and thus would be exculpatory, compelling the State to turn them over to the defense.

                I’m not seeing room for a middle ground in which the ping logs are neither corroborative for the State’s most important witness, nor exculpatory for the defendant.

              • dmoseylou says:

                Same with the TOX report…and I will not even get started AGAIN on that autopsy re**cough, cough**port!

                • justfactsplz says:

                  You and I think alike quite often. There is no doubt in my mind that there is more to the tox report and the condition of Trayvon’s hands that we have not seen in evidence released.

                  • libby says:

                    The condition of his brain and his liver are also of great import. they detail if he had done a little experimentation with drugs or if he was a full blwon addict with brain damage and liver damage

                • justfactsplz says:

                  You and I think alike sometimes. There is no doubt in my mind that there is damaging stuff in the full tox report and that there is more concerning the condition of Trayvon’s hands than we have heard about.

          • ejarra says:

            I want to see the ping and cell phone logs of Chad Joseph. He said he called TM that night to ask when he’d be back. I say that he’s a liar. I don’t believe at all that he was home that night. Much more circumstantial evidence that he was NOT home than there is that he was. Whether or not he was home is important for the defense. If TM was locked out, it explains much.

          • jello333 says:

            There’s some debate about what the ping logs would actually show… mainly the question of just how ACCURATE their location figures are. If it only gives you a very general area, then they’re not as valuable. However if they show locations down to a few feet (as some believe), then… well, it’s obvious what a big deal that would be.

        • myopiafree says:

          Yes, where are they? The STATE needs them to PROVE that that “Heart” cell phone was ACTUALLY WORKING and “hitting” the towers – so that TM was actually TAKING to DeeDee on that cell phone (that had a dead battery). But, associated with the Ping Logs, you need an electronic DUMP of the cell phones. You also need the COMPLETE bill for that day – for that cell phone. WHERE IS IT?? The STATE and the Police are obligated TO SUPPLY IT!!!

          • libby says:

            in case of a prosecution, they provide the actual evidence.
            in the case of a persecution, all they have to do is claim they have the evidence (and the judge pretends that that is the same as actually providing evidence)

        • John Galt says:

          AFAIK, we won’t be seeing any cell phone records until trial or hearing because they are confidential.

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            You may be right, much to the frustration of my inordinate curiosity with this case. But, if that were true, why is it that we see the records provided for Tracy’s account? Is that only because he released them himself, directly to Matt Gutman?

      • hooson1st says:

        Those are all great questions, and I the “apologist” would suggest that MOM/West are working on some or all of these while neglecting pertinent updates etc on GZLegal.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          Or possibly Mark and Don are playing their cards close to their chest, just to keep the prosecution guessing. That would make sense, in some respects, as long as they don’t miss any deadlines.

          However, SOME things (like subpoenas) HAVE to be submitted to the court in order to be approved and served, and those WILL be entered into the official case detail report rather promptly, right? And THAT seems to take a great deal of time between the request, the approval, the service of the subpoena and the compliance to it. The subpoenas of the Miami-Dade School District are perfect examples. Even if you disregard Mark’s failure to promptly file the right requests, it still took what, 2 months?

          And it always seems that the OS “scoops” the whole world whenever something is filed there, often BEFORE it appears in the detail report.

          But we haven’t seen any other subpoenas beside the ABC subpoena filed recently, have we?

          How DOES the OS DO that, anyway?

          Does someone at the OS have a contract with a clerk at the 18th Judicial Circuit courthouse?

          It certainly seems so.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I agree, they are far too busy to worry about updating a website.

      • jello333 says:

        Looking over your list, yes it seems that there is still a LOT of stuff left to be done before the hearing. But that’s assuming that MOM and West are not thinking along the lines that I am… and what I’m thinking is this: The prosecution does not WANT to go into the immunity hearing. Because that would require Dee Dee, and (most likely) Crump, both being forced to testify. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t see the prosecution allowing that to happen. In fact, if either of them are even deposed by MOM or West, I’ll be shocked. So in other words, I’m not sure MOM/West’s “end game” is what we’ve been assuming.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          I get your drift, but the “end game” HAS to include an immunity hearing or there will be no immunity from the civil suits that (I am certain) Ben Crump already has typed up, ready to file. If Mark and Don do NOT press for an immunity hearing, George will be “screwed, blued, and tattooed” by the civil suits.

          No, I don’t believe they haven’t included an immunity hearing in their plans. Any motion to dismiss on their part will be withheld until after a successful immunity hearing.

          Also, the State will not try to bow out of this by dropping or reducing the charges. They have their entire reputations on the line, and would have a lot of explaining to do, not only in court, but also in the eyes of the voting public.

          Rick Scott, Pamela Bondi, and Angela Corey are ALL elected officials with their eyes on even longer careers in politics. I think they will all try to ride this one out, hoping for a sympathetic judge and an ignorant and easily hoodwinked jury. If they lose, they can blame it on Bernie, or find some other scapegoat(s) to dump this on. If they back out, then it is on them.

          • eastern2western says:

            what exactly are the chances of crump and park winning a penny when the beasley firm is working for zimmerman. the firm could probably send its law clerks to embarss the living day light out of crump and company.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              The Beasley firm is representing George in the NBC suit and, perhaps, any similar suits the HE files. but I know of nothing that indicates they would be willing to represent George in any suit filed AGAINST him, provided he has no money to pay Beasley WITH. Should George prevail in Zimmerman v NBC, either by settlement or judgement, the amount he might collect still remains undetermined. If it is only enough to pay the legal fees he incurred defending his criminal case, he would have nothing left to pay Beasley for assistance in defending from a civil suit by Crump.

              • howie says:

                To sue George would open them up to civil discovery. I doubt they would like the results.

                • LetJusticePrevail says:

                  You are probably correct, but I don’t know exactly what MO’M or Beasley would be able to find, that the Schemers could not have already destroyed, or simply deny ever existed. I don’t believe that objective integrity is listed on their resumes.

                  • howie says:

                    For one thing. If they knew what was in the records they had sealed. If the sealed records are the opposite of all their claims and complaints and publishings. Then they go around collecting money from people and filing claims against insurance based on something they know is not true. I think that might be considered to be organized fraud. I do not think it is legal.

          • jello333 says:

            All that makes sense, except for one little problem: Dee Dee. I think the State knows they’re gonna have to drop the case if Dee Dee suddenly disappears. But I think that’s actually preferable to them at this point, than the alternative. That being that Dee Dee, and all her many statements — and more importantly the circumstances surrounding those statements and how they came to be — ARE admitted into evidence. And MOM/West actually deposing Dee Dee and Crump? I really believe the State is TERRIFIED at the proposition. Which is why I believe they might, indeed, be trying to find a way to drop the whole thing. And if so, here’s how I see that going down, which would also solve the immunity hearing problem:

            Corey and Bernie make an agreement with MOM and West. The agreement is that the State will allow an immunity hearing to be held, in which they STIPULATE to all the facts the defense wants to present. They do NOT argue against the self-defense claim. And so the hearing just becomes a formality, where no material facts are in dispute. The judge signs off on it, and it’s over. And the way the State does that without admitting they were wrong, is they THROW CRUMP AND HIS BUDDIES UNDER THE BUS. Ok, so what does the State get in return? Well, MOM and West will agree to NOT seek sanctions (ethical or criminal) against Bernie or Corey, and any other state official. They agree to NOT file civil suits against any of them (since there are plenty of other civil suit targets waiting in the wings, anyway)

            So if it went down like that, we’d end up with:

            1) George being exonerated and getting his immunity.

            2) George being in a very strong position with all the lawsuits to come, NBC and many others.

            3) The public now seeing that they have been lied to, since even the State would now be admitting that.

            4) Corey and Bernie not having to worry about sanctions.

            5) Corey and Bernie not having to take full blame for the case falling apart.

            And the only thing needed for all that to happen is for the State to be willing to throw Crump and his guys under the bus. I guess we can debate about whether they’d do that, but in my opinion, they definitely WOULD… if it’ll get them out of this relatively unscathed.

            (Whew… that takes some work to put that together in a halfway comprehensible form. And I think I’m gonna save this comment, so from now on I can just point people to it when they ask me what I think about where this is going. ;) )

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              Thanks for the very well thought out and lengthy post. I know that entailed a good deal of effort. I’m not trying to argue for the sake of argument, but let me quote one small part and comment to it:

              “They do NOT argue against the self-defense claim. And so the hearing just becomes a formality, where no material facts are in dispute. The judge signs off on it, and it’s over.”

              This is a scenario which I never envisioned, and seems to be an ideal “win-win” situation, but we all know that there is an entire segment of the population who will NEVER accept this ending laying down: the “No Justice, No Peace” crowd. And, we also know that appeasing them was one of the major motivations for this persecution to begin with.

              It is THAT element, the factor of appeasement, that leads me to believe the prosecution will try to fight this past the immunity phase. If they can do this without granting immunity they can say they gave it “the old college try” and pass the blame to the jury when an acquittal is declared. This still allows Crump and company to file (and possibly win) their suits against George and the HOA, etc, appeasing everyone.

              Crump gets to hold up his over-sized cardboard checks

              The family can shed their crocodile tears while they claim they achieved a “moral victory” with a civil judgement

              The judge and the prosecutors can wash their hands clean by blaming the jury

              The race baiters still have their martyr and another talking point about about “institutional racism”

              Mark O’Mara can still claim a “stunning upset victory”

              George goes free

              So who loses out, other than the taxpayers, the insurance companies, and poor George who will be financially ruined and a pariah for the remainder of his life.

              Nobody involved cares about the insurance companies, and they will just raise their rates to cover their losses.

              Nobody involved cares about the taxpayers, either. After all, this is what taxes are collected for, right? To be spent in the pursuit of justice, and Lord knows, there are enough people on enough payrolls to make all of the politicians involved look like saints when this is all over. I am certain that Ryan Julison and/or the staff reporters of the OS will be happy to lend a hand.

              That only leaves George, and absolutely no one involved ever gave a single damn about him, right?

              Oh, I forgot to consider ONE small thing. Who will be the NEXT “George Zimmerman”?

              • jello333 says:

                Heh, this is fun. ;) Again, everything you say makes sense, and you could be right. But I still think the problem is Dee Dee. To even get TO an (adversarial) immunity hearing, let alone for the State to get successfully past it, they MUST rely heavily on Dee Dee. As I said, I just don’t think they’re willing to risk that. Bernie/Corey throwing all their weight, all their reputation, all their credibility behind those two? Especially when that would mean tying themselves off to the same anchor as Crump and Dee Dee? I just can’t see it. I’ve actually sat here, trying to imagine what a Dee Dee deposition, or better yet testimony in court, would look like. I laugh about it, and think how amazingly fun it would be for us to hear/watch it. But at the same time, I can’t make it seem REAL. I mean, I just cannot visualize it REALLY happening. Think about it. Is that girl gonna voluntarily sit there with the whole world watching? I’m trying to put myself in her shoes. I would be absolutely terrified. If I had to, I would bug out, I would quite literally go into hiding before I put myself in that position. I’m serious.

                So anyway, I always come back to that… the fact that I cannot wrap my head around either Crump or Dee Dee allowing themselves to be DESTROYED in front of the whole world.

                • ejarra says:

                  What about the idea that BLDR was duped; that DD2 is not the same person as DD1. I believe that DD1 really was 16 turning 17 soon. If that were true, which is a possibility, wouldn’t that be enough to call off this whole fiasco and then BLDR/Corey go after Crump, et al.?

                  • jello333 says:

                    Oh for sure. That would even simplify matters. If they could show that they didn’t know what Crump et al were up to, that would be much better (for Bernie and Corey) than if they had to PRETEND they didn’t know what Crump was up to. Either way, whether they were in on it from the start, or whether they really WERE “duped”… either way, I’m certain that by now they realize the jig is up.

                • LetJusticePrevail says:

                  I don’t think that an appearance by DeeDee at the immunity hearing will be the disaster you might want to believe. Sure, she sounds like a functionally illiterate moron in the recorded interviews, but they will have had a full year to coach and train her by the time the immunity hearing is held. They train seals at Sea World to do some pretty *entertaining* things in that amount of time.

                  You also seem to ignore the possibility that Judge Nelson could just punt this thing to a trial with very little explanation. She may not even need to address the “DeeDee” testimony at all, and simply claim that the Bernie’s interpretation of the forensic evidence is enough to overcome O’Mara’s argument of a preponderance of the evidence,

                  I guess what I am saying is that DeeDee does not have to be totally convincing on 4/26, just *passable* enough to not completely blow it. Will that make Bernie nervous? Sure, but only to the extent that he does not want the public to see how ridiculous his “star witness” really is. He is probably fairly confident that Judge Nelson will “punt” to the jury, no matter WHAT DeeDee says.

                  Crump, on the other hand, has already demonstrated his prolific ability for double talk and, being a lawyer, will know full well how to limit what he answers at his deposition (he has already warned Don West that he will only be answering questions on a limited number of topics) which will in turn limit what he can be asked at the immunity hearing or trial. He is probably *already* rehearsing his part in front of a mirror. He has a lot to gain from this case, and only his reputation as an “ambulance chaser” to lose.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Just a couple things. First re. Crump, I disagree that he doesn’t have much to lose. I know it would require a lot of people to do the right and just thing, but if they did, Crump could very easily wind up in prison over this.

                    As for Dee Dee, you’re probably right about this: “DeeDee does not have to be totally convincing… just ‘passable’ enough to not completely blow it.” But that’s not my point. My point is that in order to be “convincing” or “passable” or even “horrible”, first she must BE THERE. And I don’t see that happening. Dee Dee will NOT testify. (Yeah, I’m putting that on the record, so you guys can make fun of me when I’m proven wrong. ;) )

                  • John Galt says:

                    “Crump, on the other hand, has already demonstrated his prolific ability for double talk and, being a lawyer, will know full well how to limit what he answers at his deposition (he has already warned Don West that he will only be answering questions on a limited number of topics) which will in turn limit what he can be asked at the immunity hearing or trial.”

                    Crump has demonstrated that he is a prolific liar. I expect that any attempt to obstruct his deposition will be met with a motion to compel, which Nelson will grant. Further attempts to obstruct will result in Crump being held in contempt. I would not be surprised if Crump asserted the 5th Amendment.

          • justfactsplz says:

            Regardless of what they do they have lost a ton of votes from those who know the truth about what they have allowed to happen.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Oh Dear how sad!!
      But don’t be too worried for the Cretins.
      They feign their feelings for “the Martin family” (whatever that is). The tears of sorrow at imagining they hear little Trayvon cry for help are crocodile tears. The “I am Trayvon” is just words.. they have no empathy with Trayvon what-so-ever…they are not young black males….. they are silly, deranged, gossipy old white women who pass away time posting mainly uninformed and wilfully ignorant nonsense.
      I have likened them to reef fish.
      Within this case they nibble on an item then all dart off to another item.
      When this case is over the school of fish will just dart off to another case.
      All they need is a tragedy where they can pay lip service to having feelings for a “victim” (preferably a child or woman treated badly by a man)….. They like to profess sorrow and empathy for the victim, but the real fun only starts when they have a suspect to HATE.
      They have no ability to read and comprehend evidence and analysis of the facts… so they run with whatever the media pushes as a narrative. The Alpha Cretins feed the worker cretins with a gruel of misinformation, delusional opinions all seasoned with their own personal life issues.
      Having said all that… they will barely skip a heart beat when this case is over… they will soon find another little bit of venomous HATE to be getting on with.

      • libby says:

        There are no other victims in the world than women or children is how they see it. In their eyes, men are only perpetrators and dont even qualify for victimhod, ever.
        White people have never done a good thing in the history of the world.
        And black people have never done anything bad, ever. Anyone who suggests that blacks are capable of making mistakes is an obvious racist

  15. joeyp1 says:

    With these new motions, and the truth that is coming out, I present you with a very short depiction of the TM supporters demeanor ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlVoD17y5y4

  16. ejarra says:

    “Fourth, combined with his intentional removal of his button from his jacket, and his placing his ear buds in his pockets, this deconstructs the entire narrative of why Trayvon took off running, and leads to the question of where did Trayvon end up physically located that allowed him to a) ditch the contraband, and b) remove the pin, ear buds, etc in preparation for the encounter/confrontation.”

    Although the location of the earbuds and pin are interesting, I find the separation of the can from the bag much more intriguing. Why? Why were they separated? Why was the bag found on the walk exactly where Georgie’s head would have been? Why was the can found in the sweatshirt and the bag not? Whether or not the bag or the can or both were used in the beat down, is what I want to know. This, I really believe, has more to do with Mr. Martin’s intent than anything else.

    • hooson1st says:

      With reference to TM’s potential possession of the blunts, the additional videotapes secured by MOM from the other locations such as Sam’s may show TM “lighting up” etc after having left the 7-11. Such evidence (if it exists) would have been discounted, if noticed at all, by the prosecution because they already had their target identified – GZ.

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        It would be interesting to see if the bag has George’s blood, saliva, mucous, or DNA on it. I wonder if Mark O’Mara ever though of having it tested?

        • debfrmhell says:

          I want to know that about ME8.

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            What about ME-8, in particular, piques your interest? Are you suggesting the need for further testing, or just a more detailed examination/interpretation of the DNA evidence already reported?

            • jello333 says:

              Hey, I don’t know if you’ve seen my other comments to you about this, but I just wanted to say thanks for how you handled your statements to Bobby on that radio show the other night. Really, really great.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                I am pleased to hear you say that. I have never listened to the webcast (and never will) because I absolutely HATE to hear my own voice so I don’t know how I “came off”. I was hoping that I didn’t sound like a complete idiot, but feared that I may have done just that!

            • debfrmhell says:

              ME8 and ME12 listed originally as 8 being the hoodie and 12 being the inner sweatshirt. See page 4 of link. Anthony Gargone changed that to reverse it. See page 6 of same link. The DNA collected from Stain A is from Zimmerman now shows it to be on the inner sweatshirt in the lower cuff area. Page 12. Yet there is nothing in the way of foreign DNA on the outer hoodie.

              http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-FLDE-bio-evidence-2-0919.pdf

              The only picture I have seen is the one taken by W13 and in that photo the very dark hoodie photographs very light grey yet there is a dark band in the neck area that looks to be part of the hoodie. That one is a B/W photo copy.

              Which makes me ask was the hoodie definitively the outer garment at the time of the shooting. Should the descriptions of ME8 and ME12 really been reversed?

              In any event, if there is a way to determine if there is blood coming from the nasal passages or from his lip via saliva it would confirm that at some point Martin had attempted to silence him by placing his hand/wrist over his nose and mouth.

              It is just curious to me.

              • debfrmhell says:

                Sorry, I don’t know how to embed a link here. Came out really loooooooong.

                • howie says:

                  Judge Lester in his order to revoke stated “the only person whose age is relevant in this case is Trayvon Martin.”
                  It may be possible that unseen parties were in communication with various players in this fiasco. Certain LEO and public official procedures may have been found to not further the “tamping down” of the emotions.
                  Whether these parties were in communication with the trial court itself is a good question. It is possible that behind the scene co-oordination was at play.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                I had noticed the switch of the descriptions months ago and was unclear as to what had happened, or which results actually went with which item. Now, from what I glean from Gargone’s comment, is that the bags containing the clothing pieces had been “mislabeled”, and that Gargone was letting CST Smith know the he was changing the descriptions so they would be accurate when discussed in the courtroom or evaluated by the prosecution. One question about that, though. Since these items were collected by the ME, would they not be bagged by him as well, or am I totally wrong about this? If, they were bagged by the ME, why would Gargone address his comment to CST Smith, and not to the ME or a member of his staff? And if they were NOT bagged by the ME, who bagged them, and when? CST Smith would be the logical guess, but when would she have bagged them? There at the morgue, or somewhere else? Is the a possibility they were cross contaminated through mis-handling?

                Another thing to consider is the remote, but not entirely impossible, chance that these two items were somehow switched from bag to bag at the ME’s office or later at the SPD station, prior to being sealed. This might have allowed for cross contamination onto the shirt, and still allowed the hoodie DNA to degrade like I mention below. Could this explain why Mark O’Mara asked specifically for the chain of custody forms forms for all of the evidence?

                As to which garment was worn on the outside, judging from the 7-11 video, which clearly shows the hoodie as the outer garment, I see no reason to ponder this. It would make ZERO sense to think that the deceased would have removed both garments, and then re-donned them with the wetter, outside garment (the hoodie) now on the inside, and the drier garment (the shirt) now on the outside. No way that would happen, unless he had more bath salts in his system than the “Miami Face-Eating Zombie” had in his.

                So, that does lead to some speculation about how the mixed DNA sample wound up on the shirt sleeve, and not on the hoodie sleeve. I do recall that there was a comment from a lab technician saying that the deceased’s clothing had a musty, mildew smell to them when opened, probably because they were not allowed to properly air dry before being sealed in the bags. Since the outer garment (the hoodie) was the dampest, this condition would be more pronounced, and would lead to a quicker and more profound degradation of the DNA traces on the clothing. Another possibility is that the hoodie sleeve “rode up” slightly during the struggle and the sleeve edge of the shirt was exposed. Since we don’t know the exact location where the sample was collected we will probably never know how this was possible. (I am sure that BDLR will introduce some interesting theory, though).

                • ejarra says:

                  Maybe he just pulled up his sleeves up to make them tighter against his arm. If that were true the outer sleeve would have pulled higher than the inner making the inside sleeve more exposed. That could be why there was none of Georgie’s DNA found on the hoodie sleeve and only on the inner one.

                  Can you visualize what I’m trying to say?

                  • LetJusticePrevail says:

                    Yes, that is a possibility that I had considered, but did not mention. I did spend some time watching the 7-11 videos to see if the shirt sleeves were longer than the hoodie sleeves, but it does not look that way, and since he did not have them rolled up in the 7-11 video, I assumed that it was more likely he did not “adjust” them prior to the attack. I believe that Sun Dance mentioned having viewed the pics of the body at the shooting scene. maybe he has some input to offer.

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  Seminole County contracts out its ME work to neighboring Volusia County.

                  After the autopsy, CST Smith traveled to Volusia County to pick up the items collected by the ME (80/184, near the bottom of the page). That was the clothing, a watch, and some change that ME Investigator Malphurs missed at the scene. (BTW it seems Martin wasn’t wearing underwear. I haven’t seen that mentioned anywhere.)

                  Smith transported the items to SPD and logged them in. After that they were SPD evidence, and the Volusia County ME would, I think, have had no more to do with them.

                  I hope that answers your question about Smith and the ME.

  17. Justice4All says:

    Scheme team greatly underestimated the power of technology and the internet in the year 2012.

    Stupid internet technology…….how are Benjamin and Natalie going to make a living stirring up racial tension if they are no longer able to lie without being exposed?

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      “how are Benjamin and Natalie going to make a living stirring up racial tension if they are no longer able to lie without being exposed”

      Very easily. While we (and a large number of other people) are fixated on the Zimmerman persecution, they find new cases to which they can apply their template of lies and obfuscations.

      The problem is that the Florida Bar and the Florida State Attorney General Pamela Bondi have found it “politically correct” to welcome the likes of Ben Crump, Daryl Parks, and Natalie Jackson with open arms, instead of investigating what they are doing.

      • ytz4mee says:

        Pam Bondi is a sell-out that places her own potential political ascendency above anything else. She is the same as the worst of the far-left Progressives, such as Rahm Emanuel. The fact that she nominally has an “R” after her name doesn’t change who – or what – she is. At her core, she is lacking in any principles or ethics.

      • Justice4All says:

        This community here should dedicate ourselves to following Ben, Darryl, and Natalie along on every case they handle and uncover and expose their lies like we have done with this case. Eventually nobody will hire them.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          Yes, at least the obvious “high profile” cases, anyway.

          • howie says:

            The A team on CTH is awesome. Too bad it could not be harnessed to help prevent other wrongful prosecutions, prior to them becoming wrongful convictions.

            • tara says:

              Too bad the media is completely ignoring all of the information presented here.

              • howie says:

                They have to. It is not allowed. Besides the media types are passengers on the Hell Bound Train. Riding in First Class.
                Winning Final Quote By Rosie O’Donnell
                “I don’t care if you think it’s your right. I say: Sorry, it’s 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison.”
                Isn’t “The Queen Of Nice”, Simply Brilliant???

  18. jordan2222 says:

    Maybe I missed but what happened to the blunt?

    • John Galt says:

      Incomplete oxidation, contributing to greenhouse gases in atmosphere.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      It was destroyed by a mysterious act of arson, but due to a lack of physical evidence the local investigators are stymied. It may be necessary to offer an award for information as to where its remains lie, or for any other details in the case.

      Maybe we can petition the Justice For Trayvon Martin Foundation to *pony up* some funds for the reward. After the investigation is over they can claim any remnants as a family momento, or perhaps have it encased in amber and add it to the memorial for the deceased.

      Heck, Tracy could even have a ceremony reminiscent of a “flag burning” if he wants. I wonder if Ben, Natalie and Ryan will stand downwind if this is the choice?

  19. flaladybug says:

    Not sure of the nature of this evidence….but in the FDLE reports from March on page 13 something that confuses me. It reads on 3/26 SA Dale Crosby received evidence from SPD Crime Scene Tech, took custody of evidence and submitted all items into FDLE general evidence storage but “NOT TO BE PROCESSED UNTIL FURTHER INSTRUCTION”. Were these general items or something still not processed?

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      If you look at the chain of custody report in the July discovery you will see the signature (barely legible) of Dale Crosby signing out items numbered DMS1 through DMS10, as well as DMS 17, DMS18, DMS 20 and DMS 22. These items are all logged on the SPD offense report released in the May discovery dump. They offense report lists the descriptions of each of the items. They are mostly the loose items found at the shooting scene. These are not anything we have not seen reports on. (DMS are the initials for Diana M Smith, the Crime Scene Technician who processed the scene on 2/26)

  20. ftsk420 says:

    As far as the weed goes Trayvon could have smoked it before he got back it’s really not hard to roll and walk and the guts inside the blunt could have been dropped on the way. The ME did say the amount of weed in his system shows he smoked but it was probably the night before.

  21. eastern2western says:

    personally, I do not even think that kid smoked weed that night because weed usually makes people more paranoid about their surrounding. What trayvon took that night actually made him much more brave and fearless because he did not stop hitting zimmerman john told him to stop. what trayvon took should be something samilar to substances such as pcp or cocaine that can remove people’s fear or their inhibitions.

    • ftsk420 says:

      I have seen people do strange things while on pcp like think they can fly. It makes you very strong and makes you loose control.

      • eastern2western says:

        marijuana seems to be more of an inhibitory drug than an excitory drug. PCP or the new so call bath salt would actually produce more of a no fear effect. I have smoked pot and smoked it with each others before and the only effect every one felt was hunger or just tired and wanting to sleep. If marijuana makes a person violent and go nuts on others, I would be lying 6 feet under the ground right now.

        • ftsk420 says:

          I would be 6 feet under to. I have smoked for over 15 years and the only thing I go looking for is the fridge. I still wanna know if they tested Trayvon for synthetic marijuana. Everybody his age seem to be doing it I know not all the stores in Florida stopped carrying it and it explains his actions for that night.

          • eastern2western says:

            if what zimmerman describing is true, then trayvon has to be on something much more in the neighborhood of the new bath salt. Any normal human being would probably stopped once some one had a gun pointing at him or knowing that the other person is going to get the gun before him. It seems to me that the gun shot which was the only thing that stopped trayvon which is a clue that shows the kid was on some thing really strong.

            • ftsk420 says:

              I agree about bath salts but that synthetic marijuana makes people lose it to. I have personally seen some crazy thing people do while on it.

              • eastern2western says:

                the question is what the f is in synthetic marijuana. No one knows or that marijuana could be mix with something else which is another possibility. If trayvon just smoked marijuana, his ass would had gotten home and eating twinkies and orderring pizza that night.

                • ftsk420 says:

                  I don’t know what’s in the synthetic either but I do know some people out there will mix weed with other things. I don’t know if you ever heard of wet but that’s when you mix PCP with weed. Other mixes are with cocaine embalming fluid and others.

          • eastern2western says:

            never heard of anyone chewing other people’s face off while smoking pot.

        • rumpole2 says:

          My observations in life are… a so called “calming drug” can still result in aggressive behaviour because the “calming” effect removes normal inhibitions. Not everybody sits wide eyed listening to Pink Floyd and watching 2001.
          With inhibitions removed they are likely to engage in behaviour they would not normally, even aggressive behaviour, and certainly in behaviour that is not in their best interest (like driving a car)… Perhaps attacking some craka just for the fun of it was within TM’s mindset, and with inhibitions removed he went for it?
          Tranquillizers (like valium) are by definition “calming”, yet people are known to engage in dangerous behaviour that they would not normally do.

    • jacob says:

      really? so now the mediical examiner is incompetent. censor me.
      ————————-
      Apparently you are unable to participate in a normal way in normal conversation. There’s no need to censor you because you never actually say anything. You are one of those who lives to be offended. Glad we could help. –Admin

      • jello333 says:

        Hi there. Since Bigboi and her buddies have me and everyone else blocked and/or banned, we can’t ask her any questions directly. So maybe you’ll take this back to them:

        If Dee Dee is so helpful to the prosecution’s case, why do you want to keep half the stuff in her statements, and how those statements came to be, hidden away? Why not tell Crump, Gutman, Bernie, and the others to hand every tiny little detail about Dee Dee over to the Defense? What are you HIDING? What are you AFRAID OF?

  22. eastern2western says:


    I think trayvon took something similar to what she took that putted him in his own world where he was completely blocked from the events that were happening around him and removed his fears,

    • tara says:

      That makes me very sad. :( She probably thought she was communicating with God. I wonder if that stuff causes permanent brain damage, even in small doses.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Wow, she doesn’t blink her eyes hardly at all. Just a straight continuous stare. Scary stuff. I thought she was going to eat those little flowers that were all over the ground. They look like pills.

      • tara says:

        I did my share of experimentation. I can almost relate to what she’s experiencing. Shadows, mundane surfaces and objects, debris … it all takes on such significance and requires exploration. With the “best” drugs these unimportant things turn into a very important sign, false of course, that you have entered the realm of the inner workings of the universe and you *understand*. And then when you’re not high any more you realize that the mysterious magical horse you spotted in the alley the night before, the horse which seemed so perfect and meaningful in that space, is really just a dumpster. (True story.) Anyway, I write “almost relate” because I never danced around like that. I’ve taken some powerful drugs but I can’t even imagine how powerful they have to be to compel a person to go that far.

      • janc1955 says:

        I think it’s entirely possible Trayvon put bangaz on the cracka-Hispanic because he was an angry young man who was embracing the thug lifestyle. Not sure he had to be under the influence of anything beyond the utter disinterest of his parents.

        • eastern2western says:

          most criminals usually committ their crime in dark corners where they can get away cleanly or they would at least run when they know they are exposed. In case of trayvon, it is really odd for him to make a decision to beat zimmerman in between houses and continue to beat him while getting attentions from the neighbors.

        • tara says:

          Juding by how quickly Sybrina and Tracy hooked up with a “civil rights” (cough) attorney who played the race card from day 1, I wouldn’t doubt that Trademark was taught to hate white people and to blame every bad thing that happened to him on racism.

          • janc1955 says:

            Yep. The Fultons/Martins certainly seem steeped in their blackness.

            • jello333 says:

              That really stands out, doesn’t it? It seems that all, I mean (as far as I’ve seen) ALL of Trayvon’s, Sybrina’s, Tracy’s friends are black. Even all of Trayvon’s friends’ friends are black (based on Facebook and Twitter). It would be one thing if they grew up in, and lived and worked in exclusively black areas. Then it might be expected. But knowing that’s not the case, then what’s going on? I don’t see how it can possibly just be by accident, by coincidence. Seems to me it must be a CONSCIOUS choice on their part… to associate only with people of their own race. Hmm… there’s a word for that, I can’t quite recall…

  23. ottawa925 says:

    This is all rattling around in my head. Let’s leave the pot aside for the moment. Trayvon had $40.00 on him right? Skittles and Arizona don’t cost $40.00. Maybe he started off with MORE than $40.00 (remember him in pics waving wads of cash?). Maybe he had an amount of money on him not to buy maryjane (which he probably already had at home, or rather Tracy’s girlfriends house for his visit, as one does tend to prepare when they know they are living their normal residence to go somewhere else so they can continue to enjoy what they normally do). Maybe he bought pills. Did autopsy report check stomach contents? IDK. In checking for drugs, does it check most major street pills too? Can’t possibly check for everything … do they? IDK.

    Now let’s go back to maryjane. I was teen/young adult in the 60’s, so I know a lil about mj. First, I suppose you have to live in an area where everyone smokes blunts and it totally goes undeteted by law enforcement or anyone who would dare complain for you to be so bold as to think you could walk around outside, smoking a blunt, and not have the odor waft through the air for a good distance. It’s not what I would do. In my day, you learned early on this was not a good method. lol

    Where did Trayvon normally smokes blunts infused with mj? Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that Tracy and Trayvon did not live in an ghetto, urban type area like you would find in Chicago. Correct? or no? I am assuming they lived similar to Retreat at Twin Lakes, meaning a townhouse, condo, or home in decent neighborhood. Correct? So where was Trayvon smoking his pot? School? at friends house? in his room at home? taking walks to smoke outside? My point is … no one, not even his own father ever detected the acute, distinctive odor of pot? ever? The school detected it, or we are told. But none of his family ever noticed? no odor, no bloodshot eyes, no behavior that would indicate Trayvon was high? (scratching my head). My BEST theory is that he was used to talking walks in order to do his mj. Wasn’t exactly going to be able to pot in the house with Chad, right? Can’t trust lil kids not to spill their guts. Nope, he took walks to do his mj and was under the impression that putting in the blunt it would go undetected. However, paranoia kicked in when he spotted someone looking at him. Maybe the guy was security? Maybe the guy was a narc, or some type undercover law enforcement (his mind races). That’s WHY he kept watching GZ like a hawk, and that’s why he decided to give GZ the slip, so he could throw the blunt away. At that point he still wasn’t sure if GZ was a cop of some sort. I’m sure he had some adreline running through him, and that adreline may have helped to prompt him to confront GZ. I think he had gathered that GZ was not law enforcement of any kind, otherwise, why didn’t GZ yell out … hey, you … (holding up badge) … wanna talk with ya … come mer. A police officer is not going to appear passive the way GZ appeared. Trayvon according to DD … (he just watching me). Once it came to him GZ was just a guy .. not a cop … that’s when he felt he would confront him .. play thug and see what happens.

    • ftsk420 says:

      Tracy said he gave Trayvon $100 for pizza and stuff. From what I have heard and read about Miami Gardens it’s the hood and people usually walk around the hood and smoke blunts without a care in the world. I know people who will walk around in any neighborhood they want and smoke out in the open. Trayvon bought what I think is a black an mild I have never smoked one with weed in it so I don’t know if maybe the leaf masks the smell of it. I always thought Trayvon may have hid something when he took off but I also feel his intention was to rob George. I’m probably one of the only ones who thinks Trayvon knew who George was and not because of the false report that was out there but because Chad lived there I read stories of how Trayvon played with the kids there and the guy who was breaking into houses basically live right around the corner from Brandi.

      • brutalhonesty says:

        yes, the blunt smoking is either referenced in the media or the evidence, that people used the shortcut and smoked blunts and if anyone said anything they cussed at them and kept walking.

    • tara says:

      I think Trademark lived in an area that was quite ghetto by most middle-class standards. Crappy houses and high crime. Not empty-lots-between-houses bad, but definitely not like the Retreats. Check out a real estate web site like Movoto, you’ll see plenty of homes listed well under $100k in that area, and the most expensive I could find was listed at $179k (no guarantee they’ll get that much!). Considering the proximity to better areas of Miami, this is a very bad sign. If you’re familiar with Chicago, think Austin, or at best the west side of Humboldt Park.

      • brutalhonesty says:

        you know what, given sybrinas income, and her child support for jahvaris (if his brotherly relationship is to be believed, dr phil interview has tracy living with him) and trayvon (they were divorced so it would be court ordered), yes, that house is substandard. where did her money go?

        • justfactsplz says:

          Hairdos, nails, jewelry, clothes, shoes, eating out,etc.

        • tara says:

          Check out the Dade County public records. Search on her name, “Fulton, Sybrina”. Interesting stuff. Five pages!

          http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/Search.aspx

          • crossdraw says:

            check out martin,tracy 5 pages there too arrested for coke 3 times

            • tara says:

              Are you sure it’s the same Tracy Martin? There’s another one among the records. Which date are you looking at?

              I do see a forclosure notice, for Tracy Martin and Alicia Stanley. They had just taken the mortgage the year before. How the h*ll were they foreclosed on after just one year ?? It looks like Sybrina too might have been foreclosed on, more than once even.

              • tara says:

                This is weird. In 1999, Sybrina acquired a house through a quit claim. Does that mean the house was given to her? It looks like it was her mother’s house, did her mother die and Sybrina inherited the house? Zillow says that the house sold for $75,000 that year, not sure where that came from. In 2003, Sybrina mortgaged the house for $99,450. In 2005, she paid off that mortgage and took out a new mortgage for an astounding $174,000. What is going on here? In 2008 she was foreclosed on, the final judgement shows that she owed $170,639.34 of principal balance plus lots of other costs.

                Am I reading this right? She was given a house and she took money out of it and ended up losing the house but keeping $170,000+ ??? Please tell me I’ve misread these documents. I don’t want to think that anyone could possibly do this.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  It looks to me like the mother quit claimed the home to Sybrina (possibly to protect assets if her mother is elderly and might need to one day go into a nursing home). Sybrina refinanced the home several times as the value was going up. Considering the closing costs with each refinance, I seriously doubt she kept very much money. I am not seeing where she kept $170,000.00 In 2005 she may have received roughly 74,000.00 with that refinance not counting about closing costs that can be very very hefty, in the thousands. It looks like she was refinancing to try to keep up with her lifestyle.

              • libby says:

                they dont like paying their bills

    • brutalhonesty says:

      agreed. I have often asked trayvonites (who use gz v undercover as proof while excusing tm for the same…cop shoulda id’d himself and stayed in da bar)…how does tm know when gz reaches for his phone, that he isnt reaching for a badge and about to say “Im a cop, come here”…..they never have an answer…..trayvon is allowed to profile gz as “old white and creepy” and allowed to “profile” him and “take the law into his own hands”.
      Because george isnt black. that is really what they think.

      • eastern2western says:

        it is the logic of street justice. zimmerman committed the crime of calling the cops on trayvon. In the streets, the snitch like that get their ass kicked and has no right to complain. If he calls the cops, he will be excuted before the cops even come. they learned their concept of law from watching scar face and god fathers.

        • tara says:

          Zimmerman committed the crime of appearing white. Trademark never would have confronted a black man.

          • eastern2western says:

            actually trayvon would probably get his ass kicked.

          • eastern2western says:

            trayvon probably made the decision to attack zimmerman because of his size.

            • jacob says:

              please show me one news article that has the metrics below except this case.

              1. Male 17 or under
              2. alone
              3. at night
              4. unarmed
              5. Over 100 miles from home
              6. attacking a stranger

              • HughStone says:

                I wanna play too.

                1. Male 17 Approximately 6’0 170lbs face hidden with hoody
                2. Alone because parents didn’t care
                3. Cold rainy night perfect for that leisurely stroll or for commtting a criminal act.
                4. Likely high and paranoid but unarmed
                5. 100 miles from home due to being suspended from school(suspension not the first)
                6. Viciously assaulted a law-abiding citizen that has a CHL.

              • eastern2western says:

                let me see, trayvon 6’3” vs zimmerman 5’8″. you see the difference in size.

              • myopiafree says:

                Hi Jacob, Why yes, there have been violent, un-provoked attacks by “un-armed” people (if you consider ‘fists” to be un-armed) and they probably were no more that 10 miles from home.

                You will probably enjoy the “rap” music.

              • libby says:

                What kind of negligent parent allows their kid to roam alone at night in the rain in high crime area? Responsible parents bring food and drink to their kids; they dont force their kids to go search for food and drink in the middle of the night in crime infested areas (trayvon would still be alive if his parents hadnt abondoned him)

    • ottawa925 says:

      thank you, ftsk, tara and brutal. I was wrong about the area of Trayvon’s hood. That would then account for why he saw no problem with walking about in the open with a blunt (under age smoking), or pot infused blunt. I was surprised you three were able to address what I was talking about in MY post cause after posting and reading it, I botched it all up, but you guys obviously sifted through that. Although I live approx. 14 miles s/w of downtown Chicago, it is highly likely one would be reported for walking around and openly smoking dope. In the areas of Chicago that Tara mentioned … I doubt it.

  24. ejarra says:

    With all the talk about the location of pin, here’s my thoughts about it. Was it on the hoodie or in his pocket? Although some asked for gunpowder residue, for me it is, “Where is the blood?” If he still had it on when he was shot, that pin would have looked as bloody as Georgie’s face. It would have been soaked and dripping with Mr. Martin’s blood. Think of where it would have been after the shot. Underneath that exploded heart with Georgie on top of Mr. Martin. A pin is made of two pieces, a front and a back. There would be blood left between the two pieces. No blood residue equals pin in pocket BEFORE the attack; which also shows the attack was pre-meditated.

    • rumpole2 says:

      There was no blood from TM to speak of. Until EMT tried resuscitation and some blood began to be pushed out of the wound. They stopped and covered the wound with a plastic bag supplied by a neighbour.
      There was a small entry wound and I have see descriptions of such wounds closing to some extent
      Bleeding occurred into the lung cavity.

      • tara says:

        I totally agree with your statements. I had read a few articles describing exactly what you said, there was barely any blood seeping out of the wound, but there was much blood accumulating inside of Trademark’s chest.

      • ejarra says:

        Thanx for the explanation, but I still believe there should be some blood on the back of the pin at least. For me, it’s still no blood=no wear.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      I was an EMT (many years ago)and we would have never taken a pin off someones shirt. I wouldn’t even have unzipped it to start CPR, just cut it up the front and get it out of the way. Every second counts in those situations.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        The EMTs didn’t remove the pin. It was probably ME Investigator Tara Malphurs (137/184, 35/284).

        I don’t think either of Martin’s upper garments has a zipper.

  25. LetJusticePrevail says:

    Just a request for help, if any one can. I am looking for some specific information about the crime scene sketch that was completed by CST Diana Smith. Particularly, has anyone determined the distance between the two reference points (A + B) that she used to triangulate the locations of the various items marked on her sketch? That is the ONE important thing that she left out!

    She described point A as being the northwest pillar of one townhouse (where witness 13 lives) and point B as being the southwest pillar of the townhouse next door, BUT she does not provide a measurement for the distance between the two points. Does anyone know of a location where I can find a precise measurement for this distance?

  26. tara says:

    I was just re-reading an Oct 19 2012 New York Times article about the outcome of one of the hearings. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/us/judge-in-trayvon-martin-case-says-his-files-can-be-used.html

    A judge in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, the Sanford, Fla., man who said he shot an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, in self-defense, ruled on Friday that Mr. Martin’s school and social media records should be provided to the defense.

    The judge, Debra S. Nelson of Seminole County Circuit Court, said Mr. Martin’s Twitter, Facebook and school records were relevant in the self-defense case.

    In those instances, showing whether a victim “had an alleged propensity to violence” or aggression is germane, the judge said.

    But lately I’m comments that Trademark’s school records might not be permissible in court. Am I misunderstanding something? It looks like Nelson is saying they are.

    Also, in that same article:

    The defense also got permission for access to the social media postings of a Miami girl who said she was on the phone with Mr. Martin just before the shooting.

    Afterward, there were posts online describing how she was too devastated to attend school or Mr. Martin’s memorial service, Mr. O’Mara said in court.

    “What I have seen online,” Mr. O’Mara said, “contests those suggestions.”

    But in the Dec 13 doxing post on the GZ Legal Case web site, O’Mara said that the defense team had still not been informed of DD’s Twitter handles. Is he just being precise ? They’d seen the Tweets of the outed DD, they believe that those were the Tweets of the real DD, but they haven’t yet been able to verify their suspicions? Also, based on the timing of the doxing post I’m assuming that Team Skittles had, in the first or second week of December, accused GZ’s defense with outing DD and vaguely implied but didn’t outright state that it’s the wrong girl, hence O’Mara’s confusing post on the topic. It seems odd that Team Skittles would wait so long considering that O’Mara mentioned the Tweets in court in October.

    • jacob says:

      The prosecution argument may be similar to a raped woman. The defense would try to imply she had plenty of sex so she wasn’t raped or she encouraged it etc etc.
      You get it.

      no worries you zimbots, Zimmerman will get away with it. MOM will not allow him to testify for sure, so he’s got a chance. After that, he better leave the country or end up like OJ.

      • janc1955 says:

        Fortunately, after he cleans up in civil suits in response to the attempted public lynching, George and his entire family will be able to afford to live wherever they please, including in this country, in complete safety. :)

      • tara says:

        Jacob, you could benefit from a course on elementary logic. Your analogy is completely inappropriate. Here’s a better one: teen dies because he tried to kill or injure a man who was legally armed and able to use his weapon. Prosecution attempts to portray the real victim as the perpetrator of the fight. Defense seeks to establish that the dead teen had a history of initiating violent confrontations.

      • eastern2western says:

        jacob, in this country, zimmerman has the right to defend him self. It is just like oj simpson. When he killed his wife in cold blood, he still had the right to defend him self too. Why is zimmerman any different from simpson.

      • justfactsplz says:

        I for one am not in the least bit worried. Look beyond your hatred and the real truth will set you free.

    • howie says:

      In Florida the precedent is Williams v. State. Only similar crimes or propensity is relevant. For example if he was a burglar or another type of criminal then no.. But if his prior crimes or actions are like and similar to this case it can come in. At least that is how I think it works.

    • howie says:

      A main conflict I noticed is this. One DD claims she had to go to the hospital for High Blood pressure. Another DD claims she had to go because she could not Pee. That there is confusing. Are there two DD’s or one DD with two different stories? HBP is a fairly common thing among black young urban females. Unable to Pee can be associated with Heroin addiction or Psycho problems.

  27. jordan2222 says:

    Although I have been inebriated before from too much alcohol to drink, I have very little experience with pot.

    If Trayvon was as high as a Georgia pine, how does that realistically affect proving George’s innocence in a court of law? Even if he had just engaged in an illegal drug deal while at the store, so what?

    It might help to enhance George’s claim about Trayvon being a suspicious looking character, but that is about all I can see.

    Since there is so much discussion about it as well as most of us clamoring for the full toxicology report, I suspect I must be missing something big.

    • HughStone says:

      Maybe TM was looking inside cars for some odd reason.

    • tara says:

      I think it’s exactly what you said, that it corroborates GZ’s claim that Trademark was “high” and therefore suspicious. Although it might not directly address the matter of self-defense, it does help to explain why GZ was in the position of being confronted by Trademark. He wasn’t watching Trademark for no reason.

      • justfactsplz says:

        George had stated Trayvon looked like he was on drugs or something. If proven that he was on drugs, it gives more credibility to why George thought Trayvon was suspicious.

        • jello333 says:

          Well of course George knew Trayvon was on drugs. He’s the one who gave them to the child, after all! GZ was always on the lookout for a new customer. Saw Trayvon skipping home with the Skittles, and was like, “Hey, little boy. Here ya go, try some of this instead. It’ll make you feel REAL good.” So Trayvon tried it, and started feeling really, really weird. He got scared, and told George he was gonna tell his mom and dad what George had done, and took off running for home. And we know the rest…

          (Maybe I should stop writing these goofy little things, eh? I might be giving some of the haters ideas for new and improved theories. ;) )

    • justfactsplz says:

      Jordan, it would be very relevant if Trayvon had drugs in his system that cause hostility or violent tendencies. That is why the full tox report is so important.

      • eastern2western says:

        I think the new bath salt drug was causing martin to act violently.

        • justfactsplz says:

          That is popular and was at one time easy to get. Something made him so violent that he didn’t care that people saw him beating up George.

          • ottawa925 says:

            BINGO. He didn’t even stop when GZ was screaming !! which you know is going to draw attention.

            • ftsk420 says:

              Years ago I was in a bar with friends and some guy started a fight with a friend of mine. My friend was pushed into me the next thing I know I’m in the car driving back to my house. I walk in my house with blood all over me I turn to my friend asked him what happen and he told me I knocked the guy out and broke his nose. I had no clue I was in a fight.

          • ftsk420 says:

            I agree he may have been on something but he could have just blacked out. I have had that happen a few times and you have no clue you are in a fight or if anyone is around till you come out of it. It’s very scary and one of the reason I don’t fight anymore.

            • justfactsplz says:

              I realize that happens but I think Trayvon knew what he was doing. He was aware enough to try to silence George, he told George he was going to die, and when he was shot, he spoke to George before falling over.

      • dmoseylou says:

        The fact that the state has not released it re-enforces my belief that it is bad, bad, bad.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I think it is too. I don’t know how the scheme team believes that all of this would never catch up to them. There was a reason Trayvon had changes to his brain and liver at his young age. I wonder how sympathetic the M.E. was to black officers pressuring for an arrest? I also think that Trayvon’s hands showed much more than was stated in the autopsy report that we have seen.

          • dmoseylou says:

            35 years in the medical field allows me to state that the autopsy report released as State discovery was rife with omissions, breach of protocol, and misinformation. I am certain MOM / WEST have retained a forensic pathologist. I want to read all about it in reciprocal discovery.

            • ottawa925 says:

              can you give some examples … just to wet our appetite.

            • ottawa925 says:

              is it wise to do CPR on a person who has a chest wound like this? just curious. I thought he was shot in the heart or very close to.

              • jello333 says:

                I have no idea about the answer to that, and this isn’t to do with just this case. But just in general, that has to be REAL bad for someone trying to help a person. I mean, you know one thing you should do it try CPR, but then when you start doing it, you can hear the sound of air escaping, and blood starts coming out of a hole in the chest. You wanna get the person breathing, and stop the bleeding, but under these circumstances (with the important wound deep inside, in the heart) there’s really nothing you can do. This must be one really HELPLESS feeling. Seriously…. is there anything you could do?

                • James says:

                  Field expedient treatment for a sucking chest wound is to place a piece of plastic over the wound to seal the lung and tape it down except for one corner left free for drainage. However, for an internal wound that has destroyed the heart and damaged the lungs, there isn’t a lot that can be done outside of a major trauma center. Look at the Ronald Reagan shooting, no heart wound, but the lung wound nearly killed him, and he was delivered to a trauma center within four minutes of the shooting, and that was a .22 that had ricocheted off the limousine, not a contact shot with a .380. As frustrating as it must have been for the cops and EMT’s, there was nothing they could have done (and I have PTSD from another shooting incident and I wasn’t even that close to the action, other than mopping up the brains later – I’d had lunch with the kid and the idiot cousin of his who negligently shot him).

    • ftsk420 says:

      It had to be something more then pot unless he wasn’t really a smoker. I have smoked some of the best stuff on the planet and never did anything Trayvon did that night. Now if the weed was laced with something that might explain it.

  28. Angel says:

    Even Tracy Martin knew Trav0n was possibly “up to no good” which is why he checked Juvenile Justice and then the Sheriff’s office first to see if Trayvon had been picked up (in his own words) before he filed a missing person report. But GZ was to presume that TM, a stranger to him who appeared to be acting strangely that fateful night, was a child that majored in cheerfulness? LOL. The absurdity of the some of the things in this case can keep one laughing. I know my daughter well and if she did not come home, I would put in a missing person report first as she has nothing in her history for my first reaction to be that she possibly could have picked up by the police.

    • John Galt says:

      “Even Tracy Martin knew Trav0n was possibly “up to no good” which is why he checked Juvenile Justice and then the Sheriff’s office first to see if Trayvon had been picked up (in his own words) before he filed a missing person report.”

      IMHO, Probably also why Tracy refused to allow police access to Trayvon’s phone PIN: afraid it would reveal evidence of drug dealing.

    • jordan2222 says:

      Angel: Where on earth have you been? Is everything OK with you?

      Glad to see you back here. As you have probably noticed, the racial aspect of the case has, sadly, not changed a bit. It is truly frustrating that we are all so helpless to do anything about it.

      In your personal opinion, is it even remotely possible that could ever change in this case or will it get worse if George is set free?

      • Angel says:

        “Angel: Where on earth have you been? Is everything OK with you?
        Glad to see you back here. As you have probably noticed, the racial aspect of the case has, sadly, not changed a bit. It is truly frustrating that we are all so helpless to do anything about it.In your personal opinion, is it even remotely possible that could ever change in this case or will it get worse if George is set free?”

        Hi Jordan2222,
        I am doing okay, just pre-occupied with the issues of my own life and trying to get some things done. I think that if God himself came down and declared GZ not guilty at the trial, there is going to be those diehards who will believe he got off for killing an innocent black kid. Based on a mentality of seeing what one wants to see even it is not aligned with objective reality, I could see those who believe GZ is guilty rioting or taking matters into their own hands. It is sad but true.

        I hope you are doing well Jordan2222 as I hope everyone else here is too. Lot of stuff on my plate right now, but I do pop in from time to time. I continue to pray that Justice in the name of truth is done in this case.

    • justfactsplz says:

      If it were my child I would also be calling hospitals to see if they had been in an accident along with missing persons report. I would never think of calling juvy.

  29. jordan2222 says:

    I am amazed that no one has folded yet. Surely there is someone involved in this mess who realizes that the game is over and is only going to get worse from here on out. Is is possible that every single one of them really believes they are totally immune to being prosecuted?

    Crump must have much more control over them than I ever thought so maybe he is smarter than I/we had considered

    I can imagine that Corey has Bernie in a very tight grip but there are others involved in the State’s case who must know what has been going on. Surely somebody has some moral convictions. No?

    Has anyone actually bowed out of this or would we not know that? Is everyone still an active participant? I ask because we don’t hear much from the Scheme team like we once did and I cannot remember when Bernie or anyone from the State spoke out publicly.

    West and O’Mara are in control and they appear to be driving the entire narrative now. I do not follow those “other” sites except for what rumpole posts here but it is not the same as it once was. Sounds to me like they might running scared.

    Am I misinterpreting this:?

    • diwataman says:

      I don’t get the sense that anything has changed and I don’t see anyone running. The biggest thing I can think of in that regard is Crump et al. not showing up for hearings since Crump got called up to answer to some things, lol, that sure shook them up.

      I also haven’t seen anything from the defense that makes me think they are driving any narrative. Everything they bring up has long ago been brought up here. The only thing I can really think of they brought up that changed anything was the DeeDee/18 thing but who knows what that was about, I’m wondering to this day if they even had that info right.

      I think anything that comes out in the future will just be an elaboration/confirmation on what everyone here already knows to some varying degree. I don’t think there’s ever going to be any kind of bomb go off in this case that helps or hurts either side, rather it will just be a slow grinding drip of information that subtlety changes some things to some degree.

      I could be wrong. Who knows, maybe Wolfinger will come out and say “okay, the Governor forced me out so he could put Corey in because I wasn’t charging George right away, blah, blah, blah” but that aint going to happen, he wants to retire and live out his days fishing or something.

      • jordan2222 says:

        While it’s true that most of us here know, at least to some degree, a lot about the facts of the case, the general public does not so that is what I meant about the defense driving the narrative, even if what they release is in little bits and pieces. At least there has been no evidence whatsoever to support the state’s charge. Even though there actually never was, you know very well that a lot of folks believe there is a strong case against George. We also no longer hear any of Crump’s rants either. He has virtually shut up.

        I cannot imagine what the State could unveil that would incriminate George. Their case goes further downhill with each passing day. All of the little things the defense does means their side is strengthening and also indicates a lot more is yet to come. You have a list of a lot of evidence that has yet to be released. Doncha think those things will be eye openers when they are revealed?

        There are also several possibilities of the defense exposing some pretty significant State lies including DeeDee and the phone record/ping logs but SD has hinted that the worst is yet to come.

        So you really don’t think that anyone in Crump’s camp or within the prosecution will start talking?

        • howie says:

          For Murder 2 they will have to somehow show. Mens Rea, a depraved mind, criminal intent. That is one of the basic elements they must prove beyond reasonable doubt. If they can not, then a pre-trial motion to dismiss could be made by the defense, if they wanted to. Without this element there can be no crime.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I keep meaning to ask you this directly since you are the master at finding things.

        I have mentioned it before but don’t recall anyone responding. Where is the subpoena that they were going to serve on DeeDee? Surely there is a copy of it somewhere.

        • diwataman says:

          Apparently subpoena’s and warrants are not part of the discovery in this case because though there are subpoena’s and warrants we do not actually see subpoena’s and warrants.

          If I recall correctly there was only one source that said she was going to be served to show up at the grand jury which reported to this entertainment and gossip website;

          “Trayvon’s girlfriend has been told that the Florida State Attorney’s Office has prepared a subpoena for her to appear in front of the grand jury. She has hired a lawyer to advise her and make sure that her rights are protected. Her attorney has told prosecutors that she is ready to appear and is looking forward to telling the grand jury what really happened on February 26,” a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.”

          http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-cellphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida/

          So if that’s true I would think it would be part of the SPD case file which O’Mara has recently received(notice also in the document below he got other subpoena’s and warrants which he did not have before);

          http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/0113/defendant_supplemental_discovery.pdf

        • allhail2 says:

          Sub peonas for Grand Juries are even harder to come by publicly. They may not even be public record since the GJ process is pretty closed door itself. I have been trying with some contacts to get a copy, but the 18th is in total lockdown re anything GZ/TM per Wolfinger early on. Yes, he is out now, but they are still tight lipped over there.

          • jordan2222 says:

            Did Bernie ever give the defense DeeDee’s address or is he still planning to produce her himself?

            • allhail2 says:

              I’m not sure. I was trying to track down the original sub peona from the GJ. That was DD1. A name and address from there would be interesting to compare to what BDLR should haven give to MOM. Still searching.

      • howie says:

        We do not know who has or has not been deposed. Nor what they may have said.

      • allhail2 says:

        I could be wrong. Who knows, maybe Wolfinger will come out and say “okay, the Governor forced me out so he could put Corey in because I wasn’t charging George right away, blah, blah, blah” but that aint going to happen, he wants to retire and live out his days fishing or something.

        I don’t think you are that far off. Add some race baiter motivation to that mix and we might have a winner.

        • howie says:

          He was given, or wrote himself a letter to Scott requesting the SP. Now. The first question I would ask is this. Did you write the letter requesting a SP? Second. question. Was this your idea or did someone else have the idea for a SP?

    • ftsk420 says:

      I watched the Casey Anthony movie that was on the other night and it was the first time I looked into the case. It was clear to me the prosecution would not be able to convict on first degree murder it seemed to be clear to everyone but the prosecution never backed down. Florida seems to be one of those states that want to ride it till the wheels fall off. Unless Corey is hiding something which is something she is known for.

      • jordan2222 says:

        What could she be hiding? If if she does have something, isn’t it too late to bring a bombshell into the case if she has had it all along?

        If she can do that, then I am more confused than ever about the rules of discovery.

        Seriously, there do not appear to be any rules in this case. I think this applies here, too:

      • howie says:

        In Florida when a plea bargain is not accepted they go tooth and nail at all cost. Plea bargains are the only way the courts can operate. They are considered “good” by the Florida government. If not for plea bargains the system would come to a halt.

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