01-10 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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401 Responses to 01-10 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. brutalhonesty says:

    it doesnt get funnier than this
    “A lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family said she feels someone pressured Serino to change his recommendation”
    Uh yeah racist black NOBLE officers in the department were pressuring him, he told the FBI this.

    • libby says:

      I told you this case was about racism. Luckily for us, black racism is thought (and taught) to be the good kind of hate. Thus, the racism in this case, if it is even visible, is not questioned in the least. Ya think Eric the coward Holder has the temerity to find a black racist he doesnt support and prosecute him/her? I think he will never put his big boy pants on and go after racists among his own people.

      • ottawa925 says:

        Holder does not operate under the law he is obliged to uphold. He merely takes orders from higher up. After all, Obama cannot afford to have ppl going off and making decisions on their own based on the law, and certainly not the Constitution. Nobody does nuttin with Obama/Jarrett knowing about it first. Obama would never have gotten this far without dictating what will be to the other entites of his administration. Holder is just an obedient servant. As Holder goes to one knee, he asks: What is thy bidding my Master?

  2. dmoseylou says:

    Lighten up with Laughter–”A merry heart does good like a medicine”

  3. dmoseylou says:

    Lighten up with Laughter with this

    • Sha says:

      dmoseylou: Will you play a song for George and Shellie for me ? It’s called If I didn’t have you by Thompson Square. I think they are very close and this is a song I played to my husband because he thinks I hold him up when times are hard, but I think he holds me up. George and Shellie If you are the source of each others strength no one can break you ! Keep those heads up and stay strong.

        • Sha says:

          dmoseylou : Thank You ! :D

          • dmoseylou says:

            You are most welcome! Some one showed me a quick and easy way to post youtube videos to other sites, so I am passing the kindness on to you. It is really easy, or I would never be able to figure it out. :D
            In the video above, click on the “youtube” icon in the lower right corner. That takes you to the youtube site. Now, look below the video and you will see “Share.”
            Click on “Share” and you will see the http address just below and to the left, highlighted in blue. The addy looks weird, but it works. Copy and paste wherever you want to post it. Try it here!
            You can also type in the song and / or singer in the youtube search box at the top of the website. That will bring up numerous versions of your song. Click the one you want and VOILA! There ya go—listen and enjoy. :lol:

    • ottawa925 says:

      Enjoyed that video, dmoseylou. Those guys could dance pretty good, and I liked that song. Sounded like some kind of remix of Billie Jean with a middle eastern flair.

  4. eastern2western says:

    Judging from the last part of their last interview, it is very likely that the defense team has been preparing for a motion to exclude witness 8. I am going to take some guesses on why.
    1) tracy spoke to witness eight for hours and none of the conservations were documented.
    2) she arrived after the 911 recording was made available to the public.
    3) the first interview was conducted by benjamine crump, who is not even an officer of the court. second interview of de la rionda was not in sabrina’s apartment.
    4)according to the fbi documents, during the interview, sabrina spoke to the witness and none of their conversation was recorded.
    5) conflicting details between her first interview and second detail
    6) that stupid tape is still hard to understand with a digital clear version. angela corey must have better hearings than me because I heard crap.

    • howie says:

      I would think not. Her testimony would be exculpatory. I think the state will have a hard time with her. At least not before the depo of her when they find out who she really is. She might be the best defense witness of all. Ya never know. I think he really wants Crump and Bernie on the stand.

      • eastern2western says:

        Now, how could she be exculpatory if none of her story is true. she could be use as a crucial witness against crump and associates for witness intimidation.

        • jello333 says:

          Yeah, that’s the point. If anyone wants Dee Dee to disappear, it’s the prosecution and Crump. Right now they’re wishing they had never gotten her involved in this, because it’s not only gonna help destroy their case, it’s likely also gonna get some of them in BIG trouble. Put another way: If tomorrow Bernie said, “Let’s just forget about Dee Dee, we’re not gonna use her or her statements at all,” Mark and Don would be like, “Heh! Not so fast!”

          • justfactsplz says:

            This is Mark and Don’s ace in the whole to go after Crump, the Martins, and Bernie. Hold on, it’s
            going to be a fun ride.

            • eastern2western says:

              IF the defense does find evidence of witness coaching, this case is over before there is even an immunity hearing.

              • justfactsplz says:

                That is what I think will happen and some heads will roll. It was obvious in Bernie’s interview with Dee Dee that she was being led. Crump started and stopped the recording with lapses of time, so he was coaching her no doubt. Sybrina and Tracey also talked with Dee Dee and the opportunity to coach her. None of them ever thought this would go this far without a plea deal. I’ll bet this Dee Dee or Dee Dee’s are scared s—less about now. She or they were probably told they would never really have to testify.

                • libby says:

                  Both of them are in it for the money. They dont care what happens to the man whose life they ruined by making up lie after lie as long as they get their civil suit ill gotten gains

              • howie says:

                They may even find evidence of trial court coaching, and judge coaching That is even worse than witness coaching.

              • LouDaJew says:

                witness coaching i.e. you want that too

    • justfactsplz says:

      Without this star witness the state will really have no case. Witness tampering or creation big time.

      • libby says:

        Ironicaly, the ‘star witness’ (or witless witness) testimony was so poorly planned or executed that it actually appears exculpatory. maybe she felt so much guilt that she actually told the truth rather than the tale she had been rehearsed to tell (or enough of a combination of the two that it is impossible to untangle the coached testimony form what she actually witnessed)

        • Sha says:

          libby : You might be on to something there……. I was thinking the same thing. She told the truth and they coached her into adding things that would help them. Then they went back and cut the things that wouldn’t help them out of the interview. BDLR might have been told the whole story by Crump and thats why he lead her with his questions to get just the parts he wonted.

          • ottawa925 says:

            yes, but just going on her intellect, she will NEVER be able to hold up under cross-examination. She MAY very well remember what REALLY happened when it comes time for deposition and witness testimony. However, once recollection of the truth is over, she may get confused and mess up on the fabricated part. If she can do it, I’m misjudging her ability. And that’s another thing. If they took one look at this gal and thought they could trust her to REMEMBER every fabrication … oh boy. You really are putting your case and career on the line. Which leads me to believe, somehow .. some way, they were going to try to get her to just furnish an Affidavit or something rather than actually sitting in the witness box. I just CANNOT see this witness in that box being cross-examined by the defense. No matter how gentle the defense is with her … they are going to lay the traps to catch the lies. TIME on the stand ALONE can break her down, not to mention everyone looking at her like an insect. Oh the poor court reporter … I won’t envy their job when she begins to give answers.

            • dmoseylou says:

              That court reporter will need a loooong vacation when she is done with both DD and Crump. Talk about a major migraine. Can you just imagine hours and hours of listening and trying to decode those 2? May she can file civil suits against them for cruel and unusual punishment. :lol:

              • John Galt says:

                “That court reporter will need a loooong vacation when she is done with both DD and Crump.”

                Attempted obstruction via mumbo jumbo muttering in a deposition should be met with a motion to compel and for sanctions.

                • rumpole2 says:

                  It is ridiculous to contemplate putting a witness on the stand who can not speak English very well, nor formulate thoughts into clear sentences. (not even very short sentences).
                  Whatever she does, or does not remember about the incident is irrelevant since she can not convey that to the Court (Jury).
                  ANY information she might relay would have to be by way of leading questions that she grunts affirmation to.
                  The putting forward of this witness as a “Star” that makes the prosecution case for them is a sick joke.

              • arkansasmimi says:

                Now that is sad and funny at the same time! CRUEL AND UNSUAL PUNISHMENT :)

            • Sha says:

              ottawa925 : I think she will crumble like a cookie. I think Crump found a naive young girl that he could use for his on agenda in this case. Then they tried to make her feel guilty for being the last person TM talked to. I do believe she might have talked to him earlier that day but not minutes before he died . I don’t think she heard anything , but has been convinced that they need her to get justice for TM or the man that killed him will go free. She can’t even give a straight answer to BDLR and hes not even putting any pressure on her. To have all those people ask you to lie for them and have that kind of burden put on your shoulders has to be a lot of stress . Maybe thats why she feels guilt , she wonts to help but not get in trouble for lying. I would offer her full immunity if she would tell the truth about every one and everything and if she didn’t then I would get her for perjury.

              • JB from SoCal says:

                ” . . . offer her full immunity if she would tell the truth about every one and everything and if she didn’t then . . . get her for perjury.”

                Works for me!

                DD: “Sign this Immunity Offer? You want that too?”
                “mmmmmmm, OK — Kin I jist write a “X” on th’ line?”

                Only problem is, WHO’S going to have to offer the immunity? I don’t believe the Defense is in any legal position to do that. And regardless, who would be her legal counsel? Crump? Jackson? Gloria Allred? Jus’ axin’ . . .

                Tsk tsk. Poor dear.

                • ottawa925 says:

                  To JB and Sha, hold on now with the immunity. That offer CANNOT come before they question her. It will be in the difficulty to keep the lies straight that they will snare her. Once they begin to demonstrate to her that they know she is lying, and tell her what the penalty for doing so is, then and only then do they make the offer for her to spill her guts in exchange for immunity. They have to catch her first. You absolutely have to have something to hold OVER her head, and if SHE doesn’t understand it, then certainly her Mother should understand it. This will be like the 3rd or 4th time I am suggesting that it is important to depose and call as a witness the Mother of W8, and if she is caught in any lies then you may have a Mother & Daughter team committing perjury. I think that would be enough to get them to drop any loyalty to Crump, the Martins, or BDLR/the State. Everything is fine as long as no skin off their fanny. NOBODY … lemme repeat … NOBODY in the public has seen these ppl. They are under total wraps protected. The minute they walk in the spotlight and things start to go bad … they will sing like lil canaries. They won’t be able to handle it and the stress will be too much. They even may find themselves in the same position GZ is in … having to be in hiding afterward.

                  Let’s see … spend time in jail for perjury? OR have to go in hiding from Traybots for telling the truth and implicating both Crump and BDLR for improper conduct and conspiracy. What would you choose if you were them? The pressure will be great, indeed, and I blame both Crump and BDLR for putting this girl in this position.

                  • JB from SoCal says:

                    Oh yes, that’s the way they roll in the Legal World. In bowling too: set up the pins first, then knock ‘em all down.
                    But her MOM? If she’s over 18? Hmmmm . . .

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I’m with you that they have to depose her first and that she will fess up.

                  • ottawa925 says:

                    to all who posted, if the defense cannot offer it to her, it would certainly be something the prosecution could offer if the defense had a case of perjury against her. Fat chance the prosecution would do that considering she’d be giving them up to avoid perjury. What a deadly web huh? Mom/West have them on the ying yang on this one. Prosecution/W8 are damned if they DO and damned if they Don’t. I love it !!!! I say the Mother of W8 because she is on record for not wanting the girl’s identity exposed, so apparently the Mother had something to say in all this. She would know the circumstances of which her daughter was approached both by Crump and the state.

                  • Sha says:

                    Ottawa: Dang! I like the way you think ! That sounds good.

                • Sha says:

                  JB : You might be right on the immunity thing I don’t think the defence can offer it to her . I was thinking more on the grounds of something called derivative use immunity that I had read about . After going back and rereading it I think it is only for the prosecutor. I guess just wishful thinking on my part !

              • John Galt says:

                “I think she will crumble like a cookie.”

                or Crumple

                • Sha says:

                  John Galt : You are a genius ! That was so good I had to read that twice lol ! Gotta love those legal minds . I like the sense of humor to . :D

                  • thefirstab says:

                    Hey Sha, have been neglecting all you legal-eagles on the GZ thread lately; have been researching/learning gun issues/corrupt gov’t stuff.
                    Just gotta say, there’s a whole bunch of Perry Masons here, and hope GZ is uplifted by all the love and legal expertise. I know I would be, in his situation.

                    I agree, JG is a genius :) very dry humor, I like that!

                  • Sha says:

                    thefirstab: Missed you ! :)

        • justfactsplz says:

          These people are so dumb yet think they are so smartl

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      Can you cite statute or case law to show why any of those things would be grounds for exclusion?

        • MJW says:

          That’s a law review article saying what the author thinks should be done. The most on-point case I know of for Florida is Cardona v. State, 826 So. 2d 968 (Fla. 2002). The court never suggests the witness should have been excluded, even though the witness was allegedly coached by the state prosecutors, not a private attorney. The court says the defense should have been provided with information to use in cross examining the witness. The 1st DCA said in Donaldson v. State, 656 So. 2d 580 (Fla. 1st DCA 1995) that “the severe sanction of witness exclusion should be a last resort reserved only for the most extreme or compelling circumstances, particularly when the excluded testimony relates to critical issues or facts and the testimony is not cumulative.” Exclusion “should be invoked only after the trial court has conducted an adequate inquiry to determine whether any other reasonable alternatives might be used to overcome or mitigate possible prejudice.”

          I just don’t see any reasonable possibility that DeeDee would be excluded as a witness because of the questionable Crump interview. That isn’t necessarily to say she won’t be excluded for some other reason.

          • howie says:

            I seem to recall she had to be tracked down by the FDLE for her BDLR interview. Wonder where she was? She must have known about it ahead of time.

          • howie says:

            She was flown to Jacksonville by the state in August for a followup interview. I have heard nothing about that one.

          • John Galt says:

            “The 1st DCA said in Donaldson v. State, 656 So. 2d 580 (Fla. 1st DCA 1995) that “the severe sanction of witness exclusion should be a last resort reserved only for the most extreme or compelling circumstances, particularly when the excluded testimony relates to critical issues or facts and the testimony is not cumulative.” Exclusion “should be invoked only after the trial court has conducted an adequate inquiry to determine whether any other reasonable alternatives might be used to overcome or mitigate possible prejudice.”

            Sounds like O’Mara is loaded for bear, because he’s talking about excluding DD.

    • John Galt says:

      7) BDLR led her incessantly and worked from Crump script
      8) obvious indications of perjury: eg: you want that too? ; iced tea, rushing back to finish watching game, heard grass, heard stuff after phone went dead
      9) tampering with Crump interview recording
      10) SWAG: something funky with the phone records
      11) obstruction/delay of LEO and defense access to phone and DD, including lying about her being a minor

    • diwataman says:

      “Trayvon’s phone, they collected it, correct…?”

      West: “The phone believed to be Trayvon Martin’s phone…”

      The phone believed to be? What the hell. Why can we never get a straight answer on this stupid phone? Yes, the SPD may have “believed it to be” but certainly we have figured this out by now haven’t we Don? What is this, some national security thing? Was it Bin Laden’s phone or some crap? I mean c’mon, was it his phone or not? I’m still thinking it may have been Brandy’s phone he was using for the week and that may be part of the confusion but I don’t know.

      West: “…but they couldn’t get at the internal memory without the passcode”

      Passcode? There’s no such thing on this phone. There are only one of three options. Pattern Lock, PIN number lock or Password lock. There is no “passcode” lock.

      “…contacted Tracy Martin and asked for the code.”

      Well that’s just silly. Why would Tracy Martin know how to access Trayvon’s phone if in fact it was his phone. If it was Brandy’s phone they should have provided that but we know they be workin it.

      • John Galt says:

        The phone call records produced by Crump were allegedly on Tracy Martin’s account and DD said she had Trayvon’s number programmed into her phone because she could only remember the last four digits. So how can the phone found at the scene not be Trayvon’s phone?

        BDLR: And did you know when you talked to Trayvon, what number you called him at?

        Dee Dee: I don’t…I know the last four digits

        BDLR: You don’t remember, or you do?

        Dee Dee: I remember the last four…

        BDLR: Is that automatically…like memorized in your phone?

        Dee Dee: Mmm Hmm [Yes].

        BDLR: OK, Alright, and you would communicate with him off and on? It was almost on a daily basis, or how often would you talk on the phone?

        Dee Dee: Daily.

    • hooson1st says:

      Do not discount the role of incompetence in all this.

    • ottawa925 says:

      Eastern, do you have the Martin Response to the above video. Rumpole2 has the same video on his blog page and it ends with words on the screen from the show … Martin Response. I’d like to see what their response was to this video.

      • ottawa925 says:

        I found it. The Martin Response comes in at the 8:00 mark:

        Vinnie is clever to avoid asking Crump about MOM/West claim that it was improper for Crump to do the interview without law enforcement present. Totally avoided that aspect.

        • eastern2western says:

          “it is george zimmerman’s testimony that convicts him.” Huh, words from benjamine crump just makes him sounds so stupid.

          • John Galt says:

            “it is george zimmerman’s testimony that convicts him.”

            Interesting. Z is now Crump’s key witness. What happened to: “she blows Zimmerman’s absurd self-defense claim out of the water.” ?

            • eastern2western says:

              yeah, I know.

            • jello333 says:

              I’ve said this a bunch of times, and I really believe it: The prosecution does not WANT Dee Dee to testify, they don’t WANT her statements to come in. They now wish she would just disappear. It’s the defense that wants to use her now. This is a VERY strange situation.

              • ottawa925 says:

                That’s exactly why MOM/West should proceed with vigor regarding DD. She is listed as W8. Defense should be salavating as they say …. come ON down !!!! We’re ready. My thought is why are Mom/West spending so much time about the device, the recording, etc., if they are not ready to connect all those dots, and use W8 as the lynch pin. Between all the machinations with that device, the recording, the editing, stopping and starting of recorder, which MOM says straight up is absurd, and Crump said, they were doing redo’s in order to hear her better, LOL … regardless … she’s inaudible, BDLR leading her by the hand, Crump interviewing without ANY law enforcement representative for ANY agency … LOL, do you honestly think MOM/West are just gonna let all that go? ohhhhhhhhhhh No …. that’s not gonna happen. I say BRING it.

        • John Galt says:

          Crumpster didn’t answer the question.

        • eastern2western says:

          “the best witness in this case is george zimmerman’s testimonies.” I can not even believe that is all they have and crump still believes he has a solid case.

          • John Galt says:

            The cops said they didn’t have probable cause after analyzing Z’s statements and voice stress test. That’s when Crump produced DD, like a rabbit out of a magician’s hat.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              The voice stress test is inadmissible. I don’t think it would make any difference in regard to probable cause.

              • rumpole2 says:

                Inadmissible.in court…. sure.. but LE go to the trouble of doing them to provide some sort of indication during the course of investigations and the FACT is that GZ passed.
                “Did you confront the guy”…….. “No”
                “Were you in fear for your life”…… “yes”

    • mommakk51 says:

      Hi E2W,

      I believed there was witness tampering as soon as I heard that Tracy contacted the girl without the proper law enforcement officials .. I was absolutely floored by the fact that Crump and the rest of the family got in on it too! Something is definitely amiss here…BIGTIME… and in their own words I gotta say it ” Dat ish ain’ gon’ fly!”

  5. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts from Justarse Quest.

    I have mentioned before the Trayvon Zone inmates BULLY anybody with a pro GZ opinion.
    They can not see the irony of their claims to be “anti-bullying” and yet bullies themselves.. especially the site Madam.

    They have driven all opposing views away.. banned them, or bullied them so much they no longer post in the Trayvon Zone. A poor newbie has stumbled in and been set upon by the Rabid pack of dogs just for saying…..

    “I think both sides of this case throw just as much BS as the other. I don’t see a difference”

    One brief post from a rare reasonable poster, but that just inspires an alpha cretin to attack….. then the pack join in.

    Random Topics


    • libby says:

      I dont go to JQ or visit leatherhead’s palace of morose and minimal cerebral activity, but I appreciate your postings (yeah, they bug me from time to time, but I always have the option to just scroll on by and do so as needed).
      As for your note here, I cannot see them actigng in any other way.
      Like other justice is only for thugvon supporters, they claim they are against vigilante action while they demand vigilante action on GZ and his family near constantly.
      Thanks for sullying youreslf to bring us the news of these most vile haters.
      Your observations are attested to in large measure through observation and prediction

      • rumpole2 says:

        It’s a dirty job …… but somebody has to do it!! :D
        As I have mentioned… I long since stopped being “upset” by anything they post. When I was amongst them it was frustrating trying to post with these cretins, but now I I see it as Theatre of The Bizarre… and enjoy the laughs :D

  6. rumpole2 says:

    My posts have vanished?
    Not even waiting for approval any more :(

  7. diwataman says:

    If yall haven’t seen I’ve updated my blog to reflect that the recorder Crump used does not have USB connectivity. As I stated over there;

    That leaves only two ways to get the audio onto a computer. One method, I do not recommend, is to record through a microphone as the recorder is playing. The second and best method is to connect a minijack to the recorder(Headphone Output) directly into the computers soundcard.

    So we can put the mp3 file thing behind us. But still, questions remain.

    Now as Crump tells us, the FBI has the bestest recording equipment in the whole wide world. So why was the original release of lower quality then the recent release? Yes, it’s not much better but it is better. Are you telling me the FBI does not have the bestest recording equipment in the whole wide world? But the FDLE does?

    The question remains, why is it still, for the most part, inaudible? Does the FDLE not know how to operate the bestest recording equipment in the whole wide world?

    As I posted on yesterday’s thread, I suggest O’Mara get his booty down to the FDLE and hook that thing up to the bestest recording equipment in the whole wide world and see if they get a better version, also listen to it from the recorder itself and see if they can make out what DeeDee is saying as well.

    Once they get that I would like to know if you can still hear the beeps from the recorder and hopefully they’ll upload it.

    But what of this supposed recording being only half of what it ought to be? Where’s the other 15 minutes? Jello thinks they have the Gutman tapes, I think they know from cell phone records. Hmmm, will we ever know.

  8. raiikun says:

    I didn’t see this talked about yet, but Richard Hornsby did a podcast thing with one of the co-owners of Websleuths, and pretty much reaffirmed much of what I’ve (and others) have been thinking for some time.

    He says that he’s argued cases in front of Nelson enough to believe she’s not the type of judge who will rule for a defendant in a Dennis Hearing, and says she’s likely to kick it to a jury.

    But, he says that he’s confident a jury would acquit George because so much of the evidence supports his side.

    He also talked about how Florida treats the aggressor rule is such that George simply would not be seen as the aggressor (following someone simply doesn’t do it in Florida). To be the aggressor pretty much requires you to be doing something illegal.

    He also talked a bit about the likelihood of evidence being excluded, and said that anything likely to be excluded would be excluded in the Defense’s favor (the photos are definitely going to be allowed, but Sybrina testifying that it’s Trayvon screaming might be excluded). The prosecution will also not be permitted to argue that George used a racial slur to a jury.

    • John Galt says:

      “He says that he’s argued cases in front of Nelson enough to believe she’s not the type of judge who will rule for a defendant in a Dennis Hearing, and says she’s likely to kick it to a jury.”

      She would have to point to conflicting admissible evidence or face reversal by writ of prohibition. Gilbreath could not identify any evidence to rebut that Trayvon assaulted Z as Z was returning to his vehicle. JQ style speculation does not constitute admissible evidence.

  9. mung says:

    Can’t make this crap up.
    On Click Orlando from a troll named Liquidmark in response to me saying that George was not required to exhaust other options before he used the gun:

    Actually, he is required to for TWO reasons.

    1) A person that is punching you with their bare hands is not a reasonable threat of imminent death or great bodily harm. You can’t use deadly force against a non-deadly threat as that does not meet the reasonable man standard.

    2) Zimmerman was CLEARLY the aggressor. Being the aggressor, he is required to exhaust ALL reasonable non deadly options before deploying deadly force even if he had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

    As you see, he was obligated to at least attempt to use non-deadly force. Also, if you read the actual law concerning justifiable use of force, you’d see that Trayvon had the right to initiate or use non-deadly force in self defense against the unidentified man that pursued him and likely tried to apprehend him (according to witness testimony) when he asked why he was being followed. This is, of course, without the benefit of hindsight and in no way requires any knowledge of Zimmerman’s intent, just a perception of his behavior.

    Sit down, shut up and don’t you ever try to tell me what was required again.

    And my response to them:

    Don’t you ever tell me to shut up troll. You don’t know squat about what you are talking about.

    First Trayvon did not have the right to use ANY force simply for being followed. DeeDee states that Trayvon is the one who questioned George about why he was following. There is no evidence at all that George started any confrontation or ever touched Trayvon. Furthermore under oath the officer at the bond hearing stated there was no evidence that George confronted Trayvon or started an altercation.

    Now skidmark in your own copy of the case law you have hit the nail on the head for every one of you idiots who think that Trayvon was justified in his felony assault.

    “(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the
    assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires
    to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues
    or resumes the use of force.”

    George was screaming for help, Trayvon had no wounds except the gunshot, George had no wounds on his hands showing that he was at all attempting to fight. that means he had withdrawn from any physical contact that may have been perceived by Trayvon our anything you have made up in your head to justify why it was OK for Trayvon to assault someone who was checking him out. Yelling for help is also a clear sign that he wanted to withdraw from anything that was going on. The assailant, who by any stretch of the law is now Trayvon who is seen by several witnesses on top of George hitting him is continuing the use of force. George has no method of escape.

    Guess what we call that in America folks! Self Defense. Now you give me one possible scenario using the evidence the state has released that will disprove that.

    • John Galt says:

      “Now you give me one possible scenario using the evidence the state has released that will disprove that.”

      IMHO, this is not about convicting GZ. Scheme Team’s objective is to make it to trial and thus defeat civil immunity.

      • howie says:

        Bonaparte might still pay em off. Or Blondie. That might be part of what is cooking under the radar. Awful strange that the defense no longer needs the discovery motions.

    • mung says:

      OMG, so the troll’s response was that since George yelled help and didn’t specifically state that he no longer wanted to be beaten that he was still the aggressor and couldn’t use deadly force. I really think we need to start mandatory mental health checks in this country.

      • John Galt says:

        “I really think we need to start mandatory mental health checks in this country.”

        Transhumanism: genetic engineering to raise the national average IQ.

  10. diwataman says:

    Crump trying to get DeeDee to come on the media stage because he knows an image has more impact than her testimony. He knows his useful idiots, the crowd, can’t think beyond simple images and messages. These manipulators are so transparent.

    File 6
    Crump: “If at any point, uh, you know after a little while where you say you uh come on and we’ll, your face will be grayed out and stuff. It’s one thing to hear it it’s another thing to just see any kind of image and you tell that story just like you told us earlier today which just put in perspective for us, he was just trying to get home and it started raining.

    • John Galt says:

      “he was just trying to get home and it started raining.”

      That BS must sound good to Crump. In view of the timeline and distances, if he “was just trying to get home” he would have been home.

      • kathyca says:

        If he was just trying to get home, it would have taken him several days on foot, I think. If he was trying to get to his father’s sideaction’s home, he would have been there. Just keepin’ it real ;)

        • thefirstab says:

          Y’all are KILLIN me – I yell self-defense. Oh, I don’t have to! I guess I’m above the law, as I don’t meet “the reasonable man standard”.

  11. diwataman says:

    File #7

    @0:51 I think DeeDee says Friday; “um, Friday I was just sick…and then my mama came and she took me to(inaudble) at like 2 something and I (inaudible) hospital the next day.

    The burial must have been a two day event, a private/family thing on Friday and a public one on Saturday, something I’ve been considering for a long time. On Friday March 2, probably at a wake, she talked to Ronquavis, upon hearing that she was the last person to talk to Trayvon alive she became ill and her mother came to get her. Then she spent the night in the hospital and did not go to the funeral the next day.

    I think Crump, Bernie, etc. just keep mixing the terms wake/funeral, confusing the matter further.

  12. mung says:

    I am sure this has been debated before, but I am tired of the Trayvonites saying “Trayvon wasn’t doing anything wrong” and “Trayvon fought back because he was threatened” this is my latest response to that. Anyone have any comments.

    If Trayvon was not doing anything wrong, why was he threatened so quickly by someone in their truck on the phone? How did Trayvon know what George was doing? He could have been looking for a lost cat. Why did Trayvon approach the truck? Why did Trayvon run from George while he was still in the truck and on the phone? Ever watch the show Cops? They say the guilty ones always run.

    So who profiled who?

    • John Galt says:

      “If Trayvon was not doing anything wrong”

      Chad phone ping logs might debunk the whole “rushing home to lil brutha with candy and tea” story.

      • mung says:

        That is true as would Trayvon’s ping logs. But really, what was it that made Trayvon profile George as a scary white dude? Let’s take a big leap back to the beginning for a second.

        George is in his truck and Trayvon is walking along on the phone with DeeDee, minding his own business. George is in his truck driving down towards the entrance. George sees Trayvon and stops and calls the NEN number. What makes Trayvon walk up to the truck and check out George? What makes him run? How does Trayvon know what George looks like through the window of a car on a dark night? You might get the basic outline but not enough to know he was white or old. Trayvon runs and George gets out of the truck and starts walking. How does Trayvon get a good look at who is “following” him? So two big things here. First DeeDee as we know is full of BS. Second who did Trayvon mistake George for? I am beginning to now think maybe it wasn’t that George was checking out Trayvon that set him off but that Trayvon may have had some kind of run in or dealings with someone between 7-11 and home and thought that George was somehow involved in said dealings. Why else would he be so quick to be “threatened” by him? It is almost like Trayvon was looking over his shoulder don’t you think?

        • John Galt says:

          “How does Trayvon get a good look at who is “following” him?”

          In view of timeline and distances, it is obvious that Trayvon did not run or walk home, as he could have walked home in the elapsed time. Trayvon was likely hiding near the T (just like Z told the cops), saw Z and also overheard him talking to the cops. He noted that Z was not in fact a scary big white dude, that he was not a cop, and that he was holding a phone and a flashlight, not a gun. Enraged at being observed and reported to the police, Trayvon confronted and attacked Z.

          • mung says:

            Ah yes but A) why did he run from the truck if he was just on his way home in the rain? and B) how did DeeDee know it was a big, scary, creepy, old, white dude. (pick your adjectives based on the interview)

            • John Galt says:

              “A) why did he run from the truck if he was just on his way home in the rain? and B) how did DeeDee know it was a big, scary, creepy, old, white dude.”

              A: Trayvon was engaged in recent criminal activity (attempted illegal blunt purchase, illegal strawman blunt purchase, conspiracy to make syzzurp / lean and marijuana use), had been previously apprehended and suspended from school for criminal activity and was thus paranoid about being followed, reported and apprehended.

              B: DD read and / or was coached based on errant media reports that Zimmerman was white and weighed 250 lbs. Z was originally “scary” because he was “big”. Upon learning that Z did not weigh anything close to 250 lbs as reported by the media, the story was rewritten to posture Z as “scary” because he was “crazy” and “creepy”. Z needed to be “scary” in order to justify Trayvon’s unprovoked flight, which is generally an indication of criminality.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          How does Trayvon know what George looks like through the window of a car on a dark night?

          The Retreat at Twin Lakes has streetlights.

          • libby says:

            Many of those streetlights did NOT function because the rtl was in financial difficulty (real estate boom turned to bust in the downturned economy-Florida and california were among the two hardest hit states). Thugs who want to break into houses first knock out streetlights to make it easier to break in with impunity AND fixing streetlights is not cheap.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              Many of those streetlights did NOT function


              Specific information on which streetlights weren’t working?

              At least one streetlight on Twin Trees Lane was working, as shown by one of the clubhouse videos and news video.

      • dexter says:

        DD claimed Trayvon ran home, than spent two minutes under the mail thing. If that was true, there would have been no Trayvon Martin around. He would have been long home, before George ever showed up. They;re going to have to find a jury of idiots to believe her.

    • John Galt says:

      “They say the guilty ones always run.”

      SCOTUS has held that unprovoked flight justifies a police offer’s reasonable suspicion of criminality sufficient to justify a search of the suspect.

      “Headlong flight — wherever it occurs — is the consummate act of evasion: it is not necessarily indicative of wrongdoing, but it is certainly suggestive of such” Illinois v. Wardlow (2000)

      • howie says:

        It would be like the actions of a prowler.

        • mung says:

          It would be and the Trayvonites don’t seem to have a problem with that. I don’t even know that I would notice someone looking at me from a car at first. They like to try to make it sound like this was some hour long thing where George is slowly following Trayvon in the car, then looking at him, then chasing him around the complex on foot like Benny Hill. Based on the timeline Trayvon made a very quick judgement that George was checking him out. Sounds to me like he had his head on a swivel because he was looking for targets of opportunity and didn’t want to raise any suspicion.

          • John Galt says:

            DD said that Trayvon ran home from the store and was sheltering under the mail thing until the rain go down and just drippin a lil water. Then he saw the big old crazy creepy white dude, put his hoodie on and headed home. Didn’t see that in the clubhouse videos and it conflicts with Z’s statements. I think they should just stick with “He didna hafta git outda cahr.” and leave it at the that. Details don’t hold up to scrutiny.

            BDLR: Did you shoot and kill Trayvon Martin?

            Z: Yes.

            BDLR: Prior to shooting and killing Trayvon Martin, did you get out of your car, Mr. Zimmerman?

            Z: Well actually it was a truck.

            BDLR: OK, did you get out of your vehicle?

            Z: Yes.

            BDLR: Were you compelled to get out of your vehicle?

            Z: No

            BDLR: AHAAA !!!! The prosecution rests.

            Focus all other efforts on jury selection.

            • mung says:

              There you go. Leaving the scene of a NEN call? Unlawful exiting of an SUV?

            • JB from SoCal says:

              White Hispanic in possession of more than one flashlight. Tsk tsk. Surely a misdemeanor!

            • ejarra says:

              “BDLR: Were you compelled to get out of your vehicle?

              Z: No”

              Actually he was compelled by Sean, the NEN operator, when he asked him TWICE to let him know if Mr. Martin does anything else. So, I believe that Georgie felt compelled to get out of his car in order to try to keep an eye on Mr. Martin.

              • John Galt says:

                OK, I’ll repharase:

                BDLR: Were you compelled by physical force to get out of your vehicle?

                • Sha says:

                  John Galt : No physical force but….. I misunderstood the NEN operator and thought he wonted me to keep an eye on the suspect because he keep saying let me know if he does anything else. I didn’t realize that he didn’t wont me to follow and observe him until he told me he did not need me to do that at which time I stopped immediately .

  13. diwataman says:

    This is quickly becoming on of my favorites from the tapes but nothing can ever beat “you want that to”

    In this one Crump tells DeeDee what she heard;

    File 3

    @1:22 Crump: “Did, did you, you know, that, uhm, that, did you, after the phone went dead the last thing you heard was he asked Trayvon again what he was doing there?”

    • John Galt says:

      Yes, and on April 2, she also heard a little bit of get off get off after the phone went dead. Can hardly wait to learn what else she will hear at deposition / immunity hearing / trial.

    • eastern2western says:

      the interview crump did was probably little rehearsed and illegal too. basically, there was not any court reporter near by to document every little word and crump was spoon feeding her.

    • scubachick75 says:

      Do you think Crump and/or the prosecution will have to address why they lied about DD’s age?

      • diwataman says:

        Nope. But I’m hoping we’ll get clarity on the issue some day, god knows when that will be.

        • jello333 says:

          Maybe not in George’s criminal case. But in other proceedings — like the civil suits and (hopefully) in sanctions/criminal proceedings against certain other individuals — I think pretty much everything will eventually come out.

          • rumpole2 says:

            I remain optimistic that George will beat this rap(eventually)…. but not at all optimistic about subsequent criminal or civil actions.
            It seems to me even large gaping cracks get plastered over following a trial.
            Ref. The Anthony case… lawyer misconduct and perjury abounded… Baez was even put on notice by judge Perry that disciplinary action would follow the trial. There were very obvious examples of perjury from Cindy… and several others…. and what happened after the trial?

            • jello333 says:

              I don’t know much about the Anthony case, but yeah, I’ve heard some crazy stuff went down. But I really don’t think there’s any comparison, at least as far as the importance of the cases go. Not to sound cold, but the Anthony case really shouldn’t have been that big a deal. Yes, it involved the death, and possibly murder of a little kid, but I really don’t see how it became more than a local story. The GZ/TM case, on the other hand… well, this has a number of potential long-term, society-wide implications. Depending on how things go, this could wind up in the history books for decades to come. Which is why I think they won’t be able to just leave things dangling at the end…. it’s just too important in too many ways. Though of course I’m looking at it from an optimistic perspective. The alternative, pessimistic perspective could just as easily be true: For exactly those same reasons — that the issues in this case are so far-reaching — there will be powerful people who DO want the truth to just be swept under the rug once this is over.

              So anyhow…. which way will this go? It’s anyone’s guess right now.

      • John Galt says:

        Sure, defense will jam them up on their prior lies in their depos. Crump will probably object, attempt to limit the scope of his deposition, a motion to compel will follow.

  14. jordan2222 says:

    Which phone was actually entered into evidence? I think justfactsplz said it was NOT the one with heart sticker on it. She also believes that there were 2 phones. Damn, this is confusing. Notice that West said “the phone believed to be” in the interview above. What the hell does that mean?

    • John Galt says:

      AFAIK, the T-Mobile Comet phone was marked, photographed, and collected as evidence.

    • justfactsplz says:

      Correction. The phone with the heart sticker on it found at the scene was documented into evidence. West saying “believed to be” means he knows it is not Trayvon’s phone. Tracey knew it too and that is why he did not provide the pin number for that phone.

      • jello333 says:

        “West saying ‘believed to be’ means he knows it is not Trayvon’s phone.”

        That’s how I interpreted that, too. I don’t think West was saying, “I’m not sure if it’s Trayvon’s phone.” Rather, I think he’s saying, “Some people at one time thought this may have been Trayvon’s phone.”

        • justfactsplz says:

          That is right. They found out pretty early on that it wasn’t. The scheme team did not plan their little fiasco very well.

        • diwataman says:

          I interpreted that to mean the phone was believed by SPD to be Trayvon’s at the initial stages of the investigation because it happened to be near him. West never elaborated on that, no further qualifying language such as “later it was revealed” or “we know now” etc. I find it frustrating as hell.

          Until I see otherwise I believe the phone found at the scene was a phone Trayvon was using registered in Tracy Martins T-Mobile account but there also remains the fact that we have not seen a single piece of evidence that shows us who owns the phone found at the scene.

  15. eastern2western says:

    I am sure that the defense had found their treasure chest when they got a copy of martin’s school records. which explains the recent media campaign and change in o’mara’s tone in regarding zimmerman’s innocence. before they had the school records, o’mara usually never ever addressed zimmerman as being innocent. In the last interview he did with hln, he actually declared his client as an innocent man. which is probably the first public statement that shows o’mara will defend zimmerman till he is aquitted. It is very much possible that the defense had already deposed dd in the last month and they are preparing to impeach her testimony out of the trial and reserve her to prosecute the whole scheme team.

    • Jacob says:

      his teacher said he’s a B student. You lose.

      • Jacob says:

        about 4 witnesses said they heard a child’s voice and some believe the fight and shot took place in two different locations. I can not say if that’s true.

        Regardless of GZ’s intent.

        1. if GZ had carefully explained in detail , he would not be in this situation. .
        2. He should have asked the kid if he lived here when he was in the car.
        3. Or stayed in the car (as we all know)
        4. Just ignore it as a kid walking around 7:00pm

        I don’t understand why GZ let this incident get out of control.

        • ftsk420 says:

          LOL and we have another one

        • eastern2western says:

          It got out of control because trayvon martin made a decision to attack him

        • JB from SoCal says:

          YAWWWWWN . . .

          You again, “Jim Brown”?


        • John Galt says:

          “1. if GZ had carefully explained in detail , he would not be in this situation. .
          2. He should have asked the kid if he lived here when he was in the car.
          3. Or stayed in the car (as we all know)
          4. Just ignore it as a kid walking around 7:00pm

          I don’t understand why GZ let this incident get out of control.”

          I agree, this is the State’s best course of action as the relevant facts and law are all adverse to their case. Focus on diversion and jury selection.

        • mung says:

          So who do you think had more of a chance of being mistaken for a child’s voice? George who we all have heard has a very soft spoken and fairly high pitched voice OR almost 6′ tall Trayvon who’s father has a very deep voice. We know that Trayvon had gone through puberty and so his voice had changed. There was no child at the scene.

          • mung says:

            Hell even Sabrina has a deeper voice than George!

          • jello333 says:

            Yep. Except “almost 6′ tall Trayvon”…. no, I realize that’s what the ME said, but I think he was clearly wrong. Around 6’3″ is my guess.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Six foot three is about right, not five eleven.

              • dmoseylou says:

                I have thought from the first time I read the autopsy record that something was very, very wrong with that report. TM’s height is only one of the inaccuracies that I believe are within that report—omissions, breach of protocol, and misinformation. I believe the FULL autopsy report—not only the Full tox report—will be as vital to the defence as the phone logs/ ping records and DD.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  I was not at all impressed with the autopsy report. Omara needs to get to the bottom of it.

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    I hope that Mom / West have already retained a forensic pathologist. Also, the full tox report is apparently as fatal to the State as are the phones / pings and DD. If benign, all of those reports and records would have been released long ago. SOP would dictate that “extra” bodily fluids and tissue samples are perserved for future testing/ re-testing if needed. IE: some one questions the preliminary results or lab procedures, so the re-testing is performed on the saved samples a second time by a different lab.

                    I can hear the Scheme Team Screeching, demanding a re-test by another independent lab. Then, when results are the same, they will say somebody at the lab swapped out TM’s blood with an addict in a homeless shelter. They never stop lying. Never.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Omara wants more dna testing and further forensic tests. They will have their own experts. There is a lot of things favorable to the defense that the persecution have not released in discovery. Yes, full tox report. Yes, a full report of items found on Trayvon, Yes, ping logs. I want all that too!

        • jello333 says:

          “witnesses said they heard a child’s voice”

          Pretty sure only one witness said that… the infamous Mary Cutcher. In fact, I think she said a “baby” or something equally as dumb. But regardless, if anyone DID think they heard a “child’s voice”, you know what that means? Listen to George talk, and then listen to the very little we have to go on re. Trayvon’s voice. If either of them sounds anything like a “child”, it would be… George! Ooops.

          • AghastInFL says:

            Mary Cutcher and Selma Mora heard “the whimpering of a child…” unfortunately for their ‘credibility’ we have all heard the same sounds in the 911 call of W-11… and there is not another human on the planet that would characterize those screams as the whimpering of a child.

        • eastern2western says:

          how is it possible for a post-pubrity grown man to sound like a child. come on, jacob, you are hanging on to a thread in here.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          some believe the fight and shot took place in two different locations.

          I recently posted on the TalkLeft Forum an argument for Mary Cutcher being the worst of all the witnesses. I forgot to mention that she claimed the shooting happened three or four doors south of where it actually did.

      • jello333 says:

        Oh my Lord! Do you seriously think any of us cares whether Trayvon was a brilliant student? Some of the nicest people have a terrible time keeping their grades up, while some really bad people can breeze right through. It really means nothing, unless low grades are caused by the student getting themselves suspended over and over again. Then it might be important. But anyway, that’s NOT why they want the school records. They’re not particularly concerned with his grades. You knew that, right? Oh, and those “honor roll” type grades Trayvon got?…. yeah, that was NOT recent. You knew that too… right?

      • maggiemoowho says:

        TM failed his FCAT exams as told to Esquire Mag by TM egg donor Sabrina. B students don’t fail their FCATs.

  16. jordan2222 says:

    Is it legally possible for the State to prevent DeeDee from being deposed? And if not. could they prevent the depo from being used by the Defense at a SD hearing?

    • howie says:

      Not if listed as a witness, and intended to be called. If they do the defense could list her.

    • John Galt says:

      DD could plead the 5th and the State would have to grant her immunity to compel testimony.

      • eastern2western says:

        I do not believe the state will grant immunity to a witness that could ruin their case.

      • MJW says:

        Florida has a sort of automatic use immunity, so witnesses cannot avoid testifying by taking the 5th:

        914.04 Witnesses; person not excused from testifying or producing evidence in certain prosecutions on ground testimony might incriminate him or her; use of testimony given or evidence produced.—No person who has been duly served with a subpoena or subpoena duces tecum shall be excused from attending and testifying or producing any book, paper, or other document before any court having felony trial jurisdiction, grand jury, or state attorney upon investigation, proceeding, or trial for a violation of any of the criminal statutes of this state upon the ground or for the reason that the testimony or evidence, documentary or otherwise, required of the person may tend to convict him or her of a crime or to subject him or her to a penalty or forfeiture, but no testimony so given or evidence so produced shall be received against the person upon any criminal investigation or proceeding. Such testimony or evidence, however, may be received against the person upon any criminal investigation or proceeding for perjury committed while giving such testimony or producing such evidence or for any perjury subsequently committed.

        • MJW says:

          Forget what I just said. I’m pretty sure this doesn’t apply to defense depositions. I’ll look it up later to make sure.

  17. jello333 says:

    Of course I disagree with that Cowboy guy when he says that both “sides” are equally bad in the way they deal with this case. While we have occasional lapses, and do get pretty riled up at times, it’s pretty rare, and almost never to anywhere near the level the Travvonites go. It’s very, very rare to find any of our posts filled with hate, or lies, or attacks on innocent people… yet the “other side” does that 24/7. So no, I think it’s a false equivalency.

    But having said that, what if one of us DID start arguing that “both sides do it”? Would we attack that person, who was otherwise on “our side” about this case? I doubt it. We’d probably point out that we disagree… but we wouldn’t be nasty about it, and tell them to leave.

  18. mung says:

    Did anyone happen to see the Daily Show last night and the story about the bridge between Detroit to Canada? If anyone ever had any question about how stupid people have become in this country that should settle it.

    • ottawa925 says:

      mung .. everyday I am astounded what is going on re: the stupid people and what they find important. I think the Dems recognized how stupid ppl are and realized they could get away with a coup de tat without anyone noticing.

  19. raiikun says:

    So, I mentioned my silly references in my D&D game I’m running (“Deedee the Grass Whisperer” as a minor pawn of a villian)…one story arc I’ve put together involves a deity (tentatively named “El’varosh the Desecrator”), whose priests gain power by killing priests of other deities and corrupting their holy symbols into symbols of El’varosh.

    One villian is going to be a priest of El’varosh….Crump, Bearer of False Truths.

  20. howie says:

    Chug-alug, Chug-a-lug, Grape lean in a mason jar.

  21. ejarra says:

    Yesterday there was some mention of when the NBA meme started. I also said that I was very much interested in what Chad has to say about that night and if he was home. I don’t believe he was and I will never believe that he was home.

    This is the interview that makes me believe that Chad started it.

    • eastern2western says:

      very hard for me to believe zimmerman could confuse chad as an adult because chad is probably only 5’3 and 110 lbs.

      • ejarra says:

        e2w, that had nothing to do with my comment. Did you misread it?

        My point was that CHAD started the meme about Mr. Martin leaving to go to the store during the NBA game. That we know was a lie. My point was that he told that story because he was NOT home. This is significant because he would have meant that Mr. Martin was locked out; as he had no key. It was not found in his possessions. This could have been the triggering event that set him off to attack Georgie. This is the WHY, as in why did he attack Georgie.

        • John Galt says:

          Trayvon may have been staying with his cuz, and was just going to drop by and pick up some cough syrup from Brandy, knowing that they were not home.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            Wouldn’t Cousin Stephen have given him a ride?

            Stephen didn’t live in Sanford. He lived in Oviedo, which looks to be about 11 miles from RATL on Google Earth.

            • libby says:

              Wouldnt trayvon’s dad have left him with plenty of skittles and watermellon drink and cough syrup? his dad was very responsible and must have known that lean was his son’s favorite drink (they were real close, so his dad knew his preferences I am certain)?

          • libby says:

            Knowing that they kept LOTS of cough syrup in the house?

        • John Galt says:

          “Mr. Martin was locked out; as he had no key.”

          Maybe Trayvon had the garage door code #?

    • John Galt says:

      @ :27 – at half time of All Star game

      So Chad is expecting Trayvon to return with Skittles during half time, but Trayvon never returns. So wouldn’t there be some phone calls? “Trayvon, the game is starting. Where are my Skittles?” “Mom, Trayvon went out to run to the store during half-time and hasn’t returned and doesn’t answer his phone.”

      • ftsk420 says:

        Wasn’t there a report that Chad did make phone calls one to Trayvon who he spoke to and one to his mother.

      • Jacob says:

        No, it’s “Tray, Where you at?”
        It’s “Mom, where he at?”

      • crossdraw says:

        no he said TM left at half time of the all star game but when TM got shot the game havent even started yet another lie from the TM camp

        • mung says:

          And TM should know all about the NBA being that DeeDee said he was gonna be in the NBA and stuff. Even though his FB page said he really wasn’t into basketball.

          • ejarra says:

            I remember reading that, too. He was not interested in the NBA and quit football, too. His “social activities” changed. You could tell by his FB page and tweets what he later was into.

            • libby says:

              he was kicked off of the football team!
              to be an athlete, you must get ok grades and not get in to much trouble (and go to school more than occassionally).
              this will come out with hsi school records

        • libby says:

          Right, but lies from the trayvon zone are considered evidence they cared about trayvon (since they were more than eager to perjure themsevles to get rich off of the parental negligence)

    • Jacob says:

      Interesting. I never heard this before. It’s not useful in court.

      • JB from SoCal says:

        Exhibit A:

        “Jacob” = Concern Tr***

        Not useful in TCTH

      • libby says:

        the troll says it makes no difference at trial that the martins/fultons have been lying every chance they get about trayvon.
        it wont affect the credibility of his family that they cant testify without lying through their teeffs? I guess not if you expected his famliy to lie all the time, so it wont affect the outcome, since you already thought them to be liars

  22. eastern2western says:

    I am going to use her as an example to question the lack of emotion in dd’s testimony. This woman on tape is much older and experienced, but she was still very emotional during the important parts. However, dd was like the complete opposite during both testimonies. In the crump interview, he kept asking dd if she knew she was the last person who had spoken to trayvon. I was truly expecting her to start crying at that point (even at 18, women are much more emotional than men), but her answer sounds very cold or like her answer was so reheared that she just wanted to get it over with. very odd and cold for a woman who was talking about a friend she had known since kindergarden (assume that is true).

    • raiikun says:

      Oh yeah, about the Kindergarten thing…with Trayvon just turning 17, and now knowing that Deedee is 18, if she knew Trayvon since Kindergarten, then it’s possible she knew Trayvon since he was probably 4 years old.

      And Trayvon’s mom says she didn’t know about Deedee…are there really mothers who don’t know who their 4 year old’s friends are?

    • libby says:

      not to disagree with the meat of your argument here, but a particular distinction should be made. DD claims she knew tratyvon since kindergarten, NOT that she was friends with him since that time or that they were close all of that time.

  23. Jacob says:

    Any information on O’meara prior murder cases? Has he won in the past? He seems unprepared. I’ve watched the hearings, I don’t like his style. GZ should get Baez or Dershowitz before it’s too late.

    Has O’meara found the Bus driver they said TM attacked, or anyone in Miami Gardens that TM attacked? If yes, then GZ got a shot.

    • howie says:

      This case is so bad his paralegal could win it.

      • Jacob says:

        On what grounds? I would not want to be in his shoes. Seriously, I may be missing something. Are you looking at this logically or as a GZ fan? I think I’m usually right , but I was wrong on OJ, Baretta and Casey Anthony.

        I’m all for defense of my home, I believe elderly people should own a handgun to protect themselves at home. I’m not old enough yet , my bat and dogs are enough. I’ve faced dangerous situations, I’ve had guns twice pointed at me. However, I’m not into the concealed carry thing.

    • JB from SoCal says:

      “Jacob” the concerned one, offers up: ” Has he won in the past?”

      No, “Jim Brown” has not won in the past, nor have his alter egos, like you.

      “You lose” in your first line, first post above under your new name, was the dead giveaway.

      Don’t remember the 3 acronyms assigned to you yesterday?
      1) GED
      2) STFU
      3) GTFOOH

      Adios MF

      • Jacob says:

        Have no idea who you are , or what the hell your talking about. I recently stumbled onto your site. Maybe this is not the right place for me but I thought it said ‘open discussion thread”. Nothing to miss

        • rumpole2 says:

          “Discussion” is fine. Welcomed here.
          But we have moved on from “O’Meara is a bad lawyer” “Zimmerman should not have had a CWP” and the biggie…… “Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck”
          MOVED ON …. well past all that… so nobody here can be bothered if you refuse to grasp the answers and want to ask the same silly questions.
          Asked and answered…… OK?

        • jello333 says:

          Just speaking for myself, you don’t seem to be the hater type like some who come here. You’ve got many facts wrong, and you clearly think George is guilty, but I don’t sense that you’re here to spew hatred of George. So if I’m right, I don’t mind debating you…. and maybe you’ll even learn something. Just my (possibly naive) view.

        • Jacob, perhaps being new here you can tell us how you believe the events unfolded?

      • Jacob says:

        are you breaking the rules?

        • eastern2western says:

          I hate to sound like a broken, but we already done this before and I do not want to repeat the whole argument about getting out of the car, chasing after trayvon or using the word coon. If you have any opinion that is based on documented evidences, please list problem. again documented evidences, not some tv shows.

          • Jacob says:

            GZ has so many inconsistencies I don’t know where to start.
            I’ll start with the police report in it contained these two statements.

            1. “Zimmerman … made it clear that he had already reached a faulty conclusion as to Martin’s purpose for being in the neighborhood,” the revised report says.

            2. The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement…

            These are not trivial statements made by Police. The statements are the foundation of the case. .

            • John Galt says:

              “These are not trivial statements made by Police. The statements are the foundation of the case.”

              Then the case is fuarked because the statements don’t meet the statutory elements of any crime.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              I thought that your intent was to post some of the “many inconsistencies” of George Zimmerman but, instead, you quoted from the report of Detective Chris Serino. How about you back up a step and list some of those inconsistencies?

            • libby says:

              if inconsistencies were hallmarks of guilt, GZ would go free and the martins/fultons will go to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • MJW says:

              Zimmerman can only hope that’s the foundation, because if it is, the foundation is made of sand. Neither reaching a false conclusion about someone’s purpose nor exiting a vehicle, even when it would have been better to have remained inside, are the least bit illegal. They also don’t establish a depraved mind. They barely rise to the level of trivial. They’re desperate attempts to find some excuse to charge Zimmerman.

    • eastern2western says:

      here we go, the return of the troll.

      • dmoseylou says:

        Only if people respond to it. If everyone simply ignores it, it will go away. It REALLY is that simple. Not one reader at the Tree is obligated to respond to any post. The choice to do so is just that…your CHOICE.

        • jello333 says:

          You’re right. But it’s the hateful trolls that bug me, and this particular person doesn’t seem to be of that ilk. Maybe it’s just faking it, and maybe it really is a sock puppet for one of the others that have been here. But so far, from his/her comments I’ve read, they’re not here because they despise George and wanna see him suffer (as is the case with most Trayvonites). Rather, this person seems to be WAY behind the curve on the actual truth and facts of this case. Those types, I’m ok with arguing with… up to a point, at least. It’s the haters who I want nothing to do with.

    • John Galt says:

      “GZ should get Baez or Dershowitz before it’s too late.”

      Dershowitz is an appellate attorney.

    • jello333 says:

      MOM wears pinky rings and rides a Harley!

      • Sha says:

        Harleys are cool and I dont know a thing about pinky rings but I would like to see Omara all decked out in normal clothes.

        • jello333 says:

          Yeah, I was just playing off the running joke around here (re. the rings and the Harley). Not sure exactly what the point of the joke is (sorry SD ;) ), but I wanted to spring it on our newbie troll(?) just to make him go, “Huh?”

        • JB from SoCal says:

          Sha, sorry, I’ve been away & so this may be a little too late for you to find in a timely fashion. Here’s some informal YT vids of Mark with his dogs . . . [ DISCLAIMER: SD & DW: Please don't watch !! . . . heh heh ]

          *** MARCO CON SUS PERROS en “QUE TAL PERRO?” *** (“Wassup Dog?”)

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Jacob, It would be nice if you spelled O’mara’s name correctly – with your Ph.D.

    • libby says:

      It was trayvon’s cousin who said trayvon jacked the bus driver.
      and we dont know much about trayvon’s school records cuz the schemers had a lot to hide about this thug in training.
      if trayvon had majored in cheerfulness, you would think his parents would want the world to see those records if they say the same as the lies the parents tell

  24. Jacob says:

    Obviously GZ has no case or you would obey your own rules about decency and prove the case. Instead I hear words such as “trolls”, “MF” Fine, keep wishing all the witnesses get eliminated. I did I laugh my butt off reading all the anguished “what if’s”, the mocking of TM’s first name.
    And some of you found some juicy tape for me to gnaw on.

    • JB from SoCal says:

      G-E-D! G-E-D! G-E-D!

    • John Galt says:

      “Obviously GZ has no case or you would obey your own rules about decency and prove the case.”

      Concept # 1: innocent until proven guilty. Z has no obligation to prove anything. The State has the burden of proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Concept #2: “He didna hafta git outda cahr” does not suffice to prove 2nd degree murder.

    • Omar says:

      Jacob…the best thing I can tell you to do is go read through all of the vast information and DOCUMENTATION found within the threads here at the treehouse. You are coming to a gunfight with a bowl full of mud, dude. I’m not mocking you. But it’s preposterous for someone to come here 11 months after the fact and start up with assertions that have already been discussed thoroughly. If you have the courage to read, you might just learn something. However, since you apparently are asking for folks to regurgitate answers that have been answered numerous times already (just go look for yourself…and you might even want to click on the links which provide documentation). If you lack the courage to dig deeper, then you’re wasting your time here, open thread or otherwise. And your motive is transparent.

      • Omar says:

        I should have completed my thought: “However, since you are apparently asking for folks to regurgitate answers that have been answered numerous times already, you are being met with the exasperation of those who have taken the time to investigate and LEARN facts. Folks here don’t just blindly recite media narrative because, as logical thinkers of high cerebral function, we are able to see through the hype and focus on the facts which have been placed in evidence. You might try it sometime. It’s enlightening.

      • Jacob says:

        whatever, but I’m here to tell you the Florida DA has a very high conviction rate. And They think they can get a conviction. How many SYG cases have they covered? How many have O’meara? How many have any of you covered as lawyers?

        But I’m the guy who needs a GED.

        • eastern2western says:

          you must not have done your studies because the syg hearings have a 70 percent success rate. 70 percent is really high kid.

          • Jacob says:

            What’s the conviction rate for Murder 2?

            • Omar says:

              THAT is irrelevant, Jacob. See…your lack of understanding of the judicial system is showing now. The conviction rate for Murder 2 is completely dependent upon the state’s ability to PROVE it’s case beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt. So with that said, I would think that perhaps you might want to go and ask your PhD friends what that means. The more Murder 2 cases that are brought forward by the state with evidence to prove the elements of Murder 2, the higher the rate. The more Murder 2 cases that are brought forward by the state WITHOUT evidence to prove the elements of Murder 2, the lower the rate. Simple, really. But the rate of conviction for Murder 2 in any given jurisdiction has absolutely nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of any one defendant in said legal action. The only important factor is this: Can the state prove beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of the crime for which he or she is charged.

        • Omar says:

          Well, first, SYG has nothing to do with this case. It’s justifiable homicide. It is a clear-cut case of self defense. How many SYG cases have YOU covered, Jacob? Are you an attorney? Your lack of understanding regarding the criminal justice system clearly indicates that you have NEVER covered an SYG case, nor any case whatsoever in a court of law (unless, of course, you were the defendant). Who was your Constitutional Law professor? See…there ARE attorneys here, Jacob. And it’s clear to us that you are NOT one of them. As for the GED….I never suggested you get one. I’d much rather you finish out your 8th grade year and then try real hard to make it all the way through high school.

          • arkansasmimi says:

            AWW there is the Omar we all Love!!!! Smart and a cutie too :) Enjoy it when you let your smarts show :)

            • Omar says:

              Yeah…it just all depends on which of my smart ends I’m using on any given day. One of my smart ends always lands me in the dog house….and I have felt so full of wee wee and vinegar today!! I guess I’m rebelling against the fact that I’ve made it half way to 90, so I’m trying to be a snot-nosed kid today! Anyway….Love ya lady, and I’m glad you’re back!

        • Jacob says:

          I work with many bright people, most have PHD etc. Not one believes Zimmerman. I’ve asked 5 so far 5-0 TM. Not sure what your backgrounds are. Perhaps this is why it’s called the “Last Refuge”. Like the last remaining holdouts from the Russian white army or something.
          You all are too funny, are weak on critical thinking skills. I will just read for laughs.

          • Omar says:

            WOW! Real LIVE PhD’s???? It’s a good thing you have them to tell you what to think. Hope you enjoy the laughs. I know WE will.

          • John Galt says:

            “You all are too funny, are weak on critical thinking skills.”

            Quite an insult coming from a guy who thinks “he didna hafta git outda cahr” constitutes 2nd degree murder.

          • John Galt says:

            “I work with many bright people”

            Sorry, it’s genetic, doesn’t rub off.

          • mung says:

            I am an engineer. By the way. Just because you are in a mental health facility and being treated by doctors doesn’t mean you “work” with them.

        • ftsk420 says:

          Really who cares about O’Mara Corey needs to worry about Don West.

        • libby says:

          Yeah, the persecutor needs actual evidence, not a conviction record to win this case.
          this is only a SYG case in the minds of the morons who put on the news and the trayvonites.
          lawyers are not the only ones allowed to comment on the law.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Trayvon Martin was a troubled and violent teen who attacked and assaulted George Zimmerman.
      LUCKILY GZ had a gun and shot TM…. otherwise GZ almost certainly would have suffered even more injuries than he did, perhaps even been killed.

      THIS is “Self Defence” plain and simple. A great example of WHY people have a CWP and a great example of Lethal Force being used as it should on occasions.

      The rest of the discussion is interesting in some respects… but really if you come to a place where this discussion has gone on for 8 months, the onus is on YOU to read back and get yourself up to speed on what has already been discussed and what we are currently discussing. That certainly is not “Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck” because that is false and besides has already been discussed.
      We are currently discussing “Dee Dee” (witness 8) and the recently relesae Crump edited tape of his phone interview of Dee Dee. If you care to join that discussion, I would be interested in your views on Dee Dee generally, and specifically what you think she says in this (and other) interviews.

    • lovemygirl says:

      OK Jacob, would you agree that nothing illegal had taken place that night until the physical confrontation broke out?

  25. eastern2western says:

    I am beginning to suspect some of these trolls are contracted operators from india who are here to spread routine propagandas, After read a couple of them, their propagandas tend to be identical of crump and park
    1) zimmerman is guilty because he got out of his car and profiled trayvon
    2)zimmerman’s own testimony convicts him because of inconsistencies.
    3) trayvon was not committing any crime and zimmerman shot him because he wore a hoodie
    4) cops were hired to cover zimmerman’s butt
    5) ignore critical evidences such as emt report, dr’s diagnosis and also police testimony and label them as distractions
    Judging from their lack of understanding american basic law, these people are most likely from india or some third world country where these following laws do not apply
    1) the prosecution must prove its case beyond reasonable doubt
    2) self defense does not require a severe beating
    3) It is completely legal to profile some one based on their appearances.
    4) It will only take one jury member to hang the whole case

  26. Tuduri says:

    Jacob, you’re very late to the game here. The facts, evidence and issues have long since been reflected on. New material is certainly welcome. But you’re bringing up issues already put to rest. And, Jacob, I work with some 150 criminal attorneys. Some are bright as heck. Many others are not the sharpest tool in the shed. Your comment “are you an attorney” is absurd. The Treehouse
    is looking for new facts and logic and is willing to debate this. You don’t have to be a lawyer to have common sense. Observe that the members of a jury are not attorneys. They are the Trier of Facts. They judge the facts with seat of pants wisdom and logic. I too was initially enraged when I ‘first heard’ about the Trayvon story. But as I learned how the press had twisted the facts regarding the dispatch tape and the DD witness, etc and how the race baiters got involved in the case, I began to have my doubts and began to review the real evidence, which has long been on display on this web site. Take the time to go back and learn the facts of this case.

    • libby says:

      Oh Jacob (or Jim or whatever yhour name is),
      this case will come down to something real simple:
      if the head is split, the jury will acquit.
      if the nose is broke, muder 2 is a joke.

  27. Jacob says:

    Corey was sworn into office in January. During her first six months, her office has tried 170 felony jury cases and has seen its felony jury trial conviction rate rise to 90 percent.

    Corey is also very active in the Children’s Chapel at her church. “She is a woman who walks the walk,” said Ann Brodt, director of Christian formation at St. John’s Episcopal Cathedral. “She is here every Sunday. Her dedication is just phenomenal. She loves the kids and they love her. I cannot imagine Children’s Chapel without Angela.”

    • lovemygirl says:

      Her record is not infallible and is not important to this case.

      OK Jacob, would you agree that nothing illegal had taken place that night until the physical confrontation broke out?

      • jacob says:

        I am not a lawyer. I don’t have proof. Zimmerman’s actions were abnormal. In his shoes I never call 911.

        Le’s say he’s your child and you listened to GZ on the 911 tape. “The awful things he said about my son”. I see it as a father.

        • lovemygirl says:

          He did not call 911, he called the non-emergency number as he was instructed by the Police to do. He was part of the Neighborhood Watch and that is exactly what they are told to do.
          What “awful” things did GZ say about Tracy’s son? That he looked like he was high (he was) and out of place for just standing in the rain? He used a stronger term after Trayvon approached him, hand in his waistband, circling his truck, staring and then running.

    • John Galt says:

      Nothing relevant yet, you have a no hitter going. Keep up the good work.

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      Corey does have a high conviction rate through gratuitously abusive tactics. Most of the targets of her abuse have been Black. Some of the cases were very obviously justifiable use of force, but because the person defending themselves was Black, it was presumed thatbthey were guilty. This is why Corey needed to vigorously prosecute a white guy for shooting black guy.

      Just FYI. I come across on this forum as being against Blacks because I so often cite the FBI murder stats about how many homicides are committed by Blacks. Ibwould point out that because most victims of homicides are Blacks (ten times the victimization rate as white people), a very large number of shootings by Blacks must be defensive. I have observed cases in my area where Blacks whonwere obviously defending themselves were vigorously prosecuted.

    • eastern2western says:

      maybe you never saw the news story about her prosecuting a 13 year old as an adult and a 30 year old woman for defending herself with a gun and they are both black. the corey you are speaking of is not some kind champion for the black cause because she took on the job to lynch zimmerman to get more votes in the aa community.

    • jello333 says:


      That’s the first word that comes to mind when I think of Angela Corey. The root of “Angela” is, of course, “Angel”…. quite fitting.

  28. Tuduri says:

    How irrelevant. This does not change the facts of this case.

  29. Tuduri says:

    Say, maybe I’ll advise one of our juvenile court defense attorneys to tell the judge(the trier of fact in those cases being Juvenile) that one is active in the Children’s Chapel and just loves the kids…That’ll impress the judge and make him forget the facts of the case. Novel defense! If Trayvon had lived with the facts at hand, he would be facing a judge on assault charges.

  30. Jacob says:

    I Take that back, Florida DA office has a 50 percent conviction rate. They let them go down there.

    So “Killerman” will get off.

    I’m glad I do not live in Florida, We have a 90% rate in our northeast state.

    • eastern2western says:

      childish argument. zimmerman is not even convicted of any crime, but you are already attacking him. very typical of teenagers. if they are losing their argument, they usually go into a personal attack mode.

    • justfactsplz says:

      I am thrilled you don’t live here too!

    • MJW says:

      Maybe the standards for charging murder in your northeast state require more than “his suspensions were incorrect” and “he should have stayed in his vehicle.”

  31. mung says:

    I have to say that all of the discussion from people on various sites including here has really changed my mind. Someone said today on another site that George belongs behind bars for 30 years and now not only do I agree with them, I think he deserves life behind bars. Bars in Key West, bars in the Caribbean, bars in Aruba. Spending all that money that he is going to make from the state, Crump, the media, etc. Maybe one day I will be lucky enough to be playing at one of those bars and can dedicate a song to him.

  32. Tuduri says:

    “Sing me a few bars”….and I’ll buy George a drink, anywhere.

  33. brutalhonesty says:

    cant prove their case, shut down those who prove them wrong
    WordPress Suspends Cyberstalker’s Site
    20 Votes

    Some of you may have wondered why I did not publish a new article today.

    I was working on a complaint today against a mentally disturbed right-wing GZ supporter and cyber-stalker obsessed with destroying my good name and reputation. When I ignored him, he went after Crane-Station. You may have seen her angry response in comments this afternoon.

    Keep in mind that wordpress is notoriously reluctant to get involved in disputes regarding whether someone libeled someone else and they make that clear in their Terms of Service.

    I posted the following complaint at 3 pm this afternoon with wordpress:

    1. My true name is Frederick Leatherman.

    2. I am well known and respected in the criminal defense community, particularly in Washington State where I practiced criminal law for 30 years. I specialized in death-penalty defense and forensics, especially DNA testing. During that time, I also served as a forensic and DNA consultant. For example, I was a consultant to Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld in the OJ Simpson case. I also am a former law professor. Now I am retired and operating my blog full time deriving an income flow from my work.

    3. My wordpress hosted website is frederickleatherman.com

    4. My personal and professional name is incorporated into my website name. I own this domain name.

    5. My name and the excellent professional reputation that goes with it is my trademark.

    6. I had 441,000 visits to my website in 2012.

    7. Most of the visitors who came to my website, got there by entering my name into a search engine.

    8. The name of this website that I am complaining about is:


    9. The person who operates this website is intentionally using my personal, professional and domain name and trademark in his website name to attract search engine attention to his site.

    10. This conduct constitutes trademark and possibly copyright infringement.

    11. The person who operates this website is a cyber stalker obsessed with destroying my professional reputation by a persistent and ongoing pattern of willfully and intentionally publishing false and defamatory information about me on this site.

    12. He began doing this approximately 10 months ago at this wordpress site:


    13. Since he did not get any traffic at his site and no one commented, he created this site including my name in the name of the website in order to leach off my audience.

    14. I understand your reluctance to deal with free speech issues, however, this person is not only defaming me, he’s using my personal and professional name to do so.

    15. No one should be permitted to use part of an existing website’s name to draw traffic to their own website, particularly when the part they use is the owner’s personal and professional name and trademark.

    16. Trademark and/or copyright infringement constitutes a violation of your Terms of Service.

    Therefore, given the egregious nature of this person’s behavior, I respectfully request you close down both sites and ban him from using word press.

    In the alternative, I respectfully request you close down this site and ban him from creating a new wordpress site that contains my name or any part of it.

    Signed electronically: Frederick Leatherman

    I received the following prompt response at 4:19 pm from wordpress:

    Hi there,

    Thank you for the report, it is very appreciated.

    The reported site has been suspended from WordPress.com.

    Terms of Service

    I have provided law enforcement with details and the cyberstalker’s true name and address.

    • mung says:

      Who respects Fred? Dumpster diving psychopaths?

      • Omar says:

        This made me laugh, snort, and then choke!!
        No self-respecting, dumpster-diving psychopath would respect Freddy. Only those sewage-encrusted amoebas without cognitive function would respect Leatherhead.

    • John Galt says:

      “If the domain name owner’s site is being used to criticize, protest or parody the trademarked entity or its owner’s products and/or services, the panel will probably find that the domain name owner has a legitimate interest in the domain name. This will probably be true, even if the domain name is, for all practical purposes, the same exact thing as the trademarked word.”



      • lovemygirl says:

        Kind of like the Drudge Report and the Drudge Retort?

      • lovemygirl says:

        I remember years ago my sister’s Dr. had a site in his own name, Michael J. Fox. The lawyers for the actor tried to get him to take it down and threatened lawsuits. The Dr. won after a few amusing exchanges. Even the actor sided with him and told the lawyer’s to knock it off.

    • ejarra says:

      Well that just sucks!

      • mung says:

        Hmm if only someone had a server that they could put WordPress on and give that person a wordpress site that isn’t hosted on WordPress servers.

    • James Crawford says:

      Freddy, is that you?
      I want to reiterate my offer to test your theory that TM was not inflicting a prolonged beating on GZ that gave him reason to fear that he would suffer death or great bodily harm and thus justification to use deadly force using your own skull as a test subject. I know that you were not only offended by the suggestion that we conduct this experiment, you felt threatened. Why would the thought of me pounding your head into a sidewalk scare you? You are the one who argues that thatbsuch a beating would be only mildly painful. You should eagerly volunteer to endure such an assault just to prove that GZ is guilty. Could it be that while you arrogantly demand that GZ wager his life that TM would not kill, cripple or maim him before the police arrived, you are unwilling to bet your own life on the proposition that pounding someone’s head into the sidewalk is not potentially lethal force.

      One other thing Freddy, using your gun arm to grip the hand or wrist of someone who is reaching for your gun is not a “wrist lock” that controls them and thus negates any need for the use of force. This weapons retention technique merely impedes an assailants attempt to get to your weapon only long enough for you to draw and fire if needed. Given the fact that GZ had already taken quite a beating, he had no choice but to fire.

      • gztruthandjustice says:

        Thanks for pointing this new level of harassment out. When I saw my blog locked down I was floored..but I have moved it back to its original home on blogspot for the time being and retooled my identity a little to keep these sewer rats out of my private life. The biggest concern I have is not the threat of “authorities” as refuting lies and embellished accomplishments is a far cry from cyberstalking. Rather knowing his rabid fans will do anything they can to make me pay for crossing Fred. As a citizen journalist all info regarding Fred has been researched and I will maintain accurate and true. He has yet to set the record straight about his handling of the Darold Stenson case and all public info about him indicates that he declares his clients guilty and merely wanted to save them from death row. He doesn’t frighten me in the least. But if I ever do get visited by the cops we are going to have a jolly time reading through his blog and I fully intend on showing them the malicious and false statements about us being “racist and stupid” amongst other defamatory comments.

  34. sunnydaze77 says:

    Jacob, Dersh basically said Corey is a nitiwt….end of story

  35. arkansasmimi says:

    Whew back home with the internet! But been spending time with my new GrandDaughter! Born Tuesday!!!!! What a sweet bundle of PINK!!! Ok off to try and catch up!

  36. dizzymissl says:

    The answers to the troll were absolutely hilarious.

    Good job!!!

  37. mung says:

    A friend of mine in Maryland posted this on Facebook.

    A Towson High student was robbed at gunpoint today in Stoneleigh, and then what sounds like the same perpetrator tried to rob two Dumbarton students an hour later — also in Stoneleigh. All kids were walking home from school. Parents, make sure your children walk home in a group until this guy is caught!

    And the best part my CTH friends!

    The suspect is an African-American boy, approximately 16, 6 foot tall, thin with short hair, wearing jeans and a dark hooded sweatshirt.

    Wow that sounds familiar. Who is it that had the same description?

  38. jordan2222 says:

    I hate it when someone new shows up here like this person today. I do not know much about trolls and don’t want to know. I see no point to any of it. All I know is that they fill up our threads with garbage and it distracts from our normally sane discussions.

    It always seems to happen on “slow” days when there’s not much news in the case. We are approaching 300 comments today. That’s not normal unless there is something new or controversial in the case. I no longer subscribe to these threads until the early evening in the hopes that the drama has ended.

    I refuse to engage them but I would suggest that if someone is truly looking for the facts in this case that they be referred to a few SPECIFIC threads that summarize the case and then invite them to come back but ONLY after having read them.

    Any of us could tell after their next post if they have researched all of the work that has been done here.

    After that, if it’s clear that they are only here to stir up trouble, ask them to leave or ignore them. You folks that are experienced with this kind of thing seem to know exactly how to tell when someone is a troll. I noticed that even Jello seemed to be “fooled” today and so I tried to give the person the benefit of the doubt, thinking he might be some young person, who really was interested in hearing why George is not guilty. So I “wasted” time following him only to realize that he was not a kid.

    Sorry that I am so slow to detect these “trolls” or whatever they are.

    Just saying.

    • lovemygirl says:

      I naively thought one could answer a simple direct question so I would have a starting point, Nope, I was fooled again.

      • eastern2western says:

        none of their answers is based on facts or even the law because most of them derived their idea of justice from ganster movies.

    • mung says:

      I am very tired of the the same lame BS from the same lame people on the same lame site. Especially Click Orlando. Their blog is so hosed now that it never works right. I may make a comment or 2 over there but I am done trying to educate them. It’s not like I ever thought I was going to change them, I just wanted to make sure that non special people weren’t falling into the traps of their lies.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I prefer to hang out on a limb here when the house gets smelly….. until someone cleans up the mess but sometimes the maids are late.

      • justfactsplz says:

        It is pretty much a worthless cause over there. That being said, blatant lies need to be countered with the truth.

    • dmoseylou says:

      Excellent post, Jordan. After the first troll post, I scroll right past every post responding to it. I have said here before, I am concerned about newbies visiting here for the first time or two, reading post after post after post of troll-talk. I sincerely hope some very sincere people honestly looking for answers are not completely turned off by that talk and will check out other threads here also. By reading other threads, hopefully they will realize most of the trolls migrate to this GZ thread and leave the others alone.

      First impressions…

    • treewig says:

      JMHO, but I do think patience and insight is the best way to deal with such posters. I doubt there are too many posters coming here now that don’t at least know the basic facts, but if they are coming from another site with a different viewpoint, they might not know all the facts or know the appropriate laws that apply. IF they are a person actively seeking more information, lets provide it to them. If they are a troll, calling them names and getting worked into a tizzy is exactly what they are looking for, so lets not give them that.

      Jacob made at least one valid point, GZ does have to prove something at trial, but he does have the burden at an immunity hearing. There is plenty of evidence available for that and it doesn’t take long to hit the high points. GZ would also have to at least show enough evidence at a trial to get a self defense instruction.

      I am in the camp that believes most of GZ’s story and I don’t see any evidence that GZ did anything wrong that evening to provoke an attack and that his shooting of TM was justified. The evidence is on our side, so I say lets stick with that.

  39. AghastInFL says:

    Jacob’s visit today reminds me of the proverb:
    “As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” – Pr 27:17
    of course that was only after a desperate search for a bright side ;^)

  40. diwataman says:

    Nope, I have not forgotten.

    “we anticipate there will be new motions put before the court in advance of that hearing date”

    15 days

  41. LouDaJew says:

    the statement Jacob mentioned about many intelligent people feel Zimmerman is guilty may be correct. I know many intelligent people as well who feel the same. The problem is they don’t know the facts, and most of all they don’t know the African Americans in North Dade. of course it isn’t most, but a percentage of AA that are always looking for trouble and have a chip on their shoulder. the white flighters are still in denial as to why they moved away from the old neighborhood. they need to come back and stay for a year. for example, I saw a huge black man today throw a Chipolte’s cup on the ground. I looked at him in disgust and he approached me. I turned away, but he could have sucker punched me just like many times I’ve seen before which is very common for black thugs. just look at the prsions. they love the sucker punch and they love to fight mostly in groups. they can never fight fair. come on white flighters, STOP MAKING EXCUSES!

  42. eastern2western says:

    New documents released this week could turn the case upside down.

    The documents are several drafts of notes from the Sanford police detective who headed the investigation.

    Legal expert Joy Ragan told said that she has scoured over police reports and the indecision from charging investigators will play well for the defense.

    “If we get to a jury, than this is great for the defense because the defense says that law enforcement couldn’t even figure it out. They’re going back and forth, is it manslaughter? Do they have self-defense? What’s going on here? And if law enforcement can’t figure it out, then there is a reasonable doubt,” said Ragan.

    Ragan also believes that the opinion of investigators could turn the case upside down, if evidence was found to be in contrast to the original police assessment.

    “In the officer’s opinion, they say that because of the physical description of both parties, neither has combat training, we believed that the case should be charged as so forth,” said Ragan.

    However, evidence shows an eyewitness already described Trayvon Martin as raining blows down on George Zimmermnan “MMA style.”

    Ragan said if more evidence came to light to support Martin has experience with MMA fighting, the case dynamics would dramatically change.

    “If I am Mark O’Mara, I have my investigators out doing whatever I can do to find if Trayvon Martin had any MMA training, because if he did, then I can invalidate the opinions to charge period,” Ragan said.

    We also looked into the role lead investigator Chris Serino played in the initial arrest report.

    Serino has retained high profile Attorney Jose Baez.

    “I think that Detective Serino is a little bit afraid that he is going to be the fall guy in all of this. There has been some criticism about the way that he handled the investigation, maybe he overstepped the bounds. But he definitely had a different opinion than his supervisor and the local state attorney,” said Ragan.

    A lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family said she feels someone pressured Serino to change his recommendation.

    Haha, even the new release documents could help zimmerman. I remember de la rionda was talking about them like they were the smoking gun, but their smoking gun turned out to be another fail to their lynch camaign.

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