Critical Thinking - Yesterday I posted a video and CNN story that hit the “national news” of a Step-Father in a fenced back yard, with a baseball mitt, and a belt, and a young boy, with a baseball.
The video was not posted just to “stir emotion”….. It was posted because there is a critical aspect to the Trayvon Martin case that people are overlooking. Well, most people. Bear with me.
Like the Trayvon Martin case, yesterday’s video, which drew the ire of many TreeHouse participants, was/is a media narrative. The media narrative was “Step-Father beats Step-son for dropping ball while playing catch“. That was the substance of the media construct, and it included a nice u-tube video to support it.
There is only one problem. There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, within that actual video to support that assertion. Go back and look at it again. Junior was not smacked for dropping the ball, in fact the ball never leaves his hand – nor do you even see in the video a game of catch – It is just not evident. Again, go back and look at it. There is NOTHING within that video to support a claim that “a boy was beaten by his step-father for dropping a ball while playing catch“. Nothing.
Yet almost everyone accepted that fact. Why?
The only thing that draws you to believe that was/is the accompanying narrative with the video. If you just watched the video, without any predisposition toward what you are witnessing, you “might” draw that conclusion. However, when you watch the video combined with the narrative you are CERTAIN to draw that conclusion. But why?….
You see, it is the combination of the video along with the narrative that directs your evaluation and conclusion. So ask yourself a question: which is having more of an influence upon me, the narrative OR the video?
What does this have to do with George Zimmerman?
Well, if there was a video of George watching Trayvon, and if there was video of George getting out of his truck and walking toward Trayvon, and if then Trayvon was shot, well, you might readily draw the conclusion that George Zimmerman got out of his truck to shoot Trayvon Martin.
If such a video existed, and if a narrative of “George Zimmerman was on the hunt for a rabid negro dog to murder in cold blood“…. well, you see where this is headed…..
It is the narrative that draws the conclusion. NOT what you actually witness. This is the key distinction behind Critical Thinking as opposed to Cognitive Acceptance.
In this example George Zimmerman would be guilty based solely on the narrative. But that would never happen right? ….. Wait, no…. huh,…. what?
So what’s my point?
Remember the video of Trayvon at the 7-11 and how we looked at it critically, evaluated the illogical narrative, and then based solely on it not making any sense whatsoever for a 17-year-old to walk a mile, in the rain, to get “iced tea” for himself and “skittles” for his *cough* brother, we were able to assemble the more fact based truth? Remember that?
Would it surprise you to know that the FBI, the federal Department of Justice, the State Police, the Sanford Police Department, the State Attorney General’s office, the entire Law Enforcement apparatus et al, had no clue that Trayvon “stayed” at the 7-11 until 6:29pm?
Would that surprise you?
Well it’s true.
That’s right. In the same way that many drew the conclusion of brutal step-dad beating step-son based solely on the scripted narrative you chose to believe, in that very same way the entire Law Enforcement apparatus never looked one iota into anything other than Trayvon leaving the 7-11 after he purchased his tea and skittles at 6:24pm.
Why? Because it, the fact of it, did not fit their psyche of critical thinking. The script was already written and Cognitive Acceptance of the 6:24 pm departure was embedded; There was no need to look further.
The prosecution narrative of the Trayvon Shooting was drawn to conclusion with the introduction of the Probable Cause Affidavit. There was/is no subsequent investigation, no ongoing inquiry, nor any follow-up on any aspect of the case which would lead them in a divergent direction from the case facts as they chose to know them at that moment.
In short they had investigated, researched, queried, questioned and summarized. The prosecution investigation was/is done. They were/are not going to do any further investigative research to undermine their own case, or change the facts to support a different conclusion that might lead to an acquittal for George Zimmerman.
Consider – Treeper ”CrossThread”, a member of our community, sent Mark NeJame, the legal analyst for CNN and Orlando based attorney who directed George Zimmerman to Mark O’Mara, a link to the video research we had done along with the video compilation of Treeper Diwataman. He received this response from NeJame:
Founder and Senior Partner Nejame, LaFay, Jancha, Ahmed, Barker & Joshi, P.A. CNN Legal Analyst
Thanks for the email and inquiry. I did read the online article and viewed the video(s).
I think that some very interesting points are raised in it and apparently a significant amount of time was put into it as well.
I am bothered by some of the generalizations made by the host. Also, I’m not certain at all that I buy the “conspiracy” concept about TM and the other patrons at the store. Nothing that they did suggested any criminal or questionable activity. I do find it interesting with the suggestion that TM did seem to reappear.
I really need to spend more time with the site and video. I think as discovery comes out in the case, this video may make a bit more sense…one way or the other.
Thanks for getting it to me. I do appreciate it.
There will be lots of ups and downs for both sides in the case. Be prepared for a tumultuous time with it.Thanks again.
MarkNeJame Law
The problem for NeJame is he’s now aware of exculpatory evidence and he is a “legal media analyst”. What to do?…. What to do?…. Yikes.
Setting aside the dilemma this places Mark NeJame in, and his obvious concern about his exposure to sunlight, what you recognize is something we have independently confirmed. The prosecution team, ”Team Skittles” et al has no idea what actually transpired that night beyond their pre-scripted determinations.
We were able to independently confirm that law enforcement had no idea about the “Three Stooges”, nor the purchase ”blunts for Trayvon” and potential quid-pro-quo sale of Marijuana to the stooges.
They did not know because there was no need to find out based on their original determinations. They already had their mind made up. However, Team Freedom consisting of George Zimmerman, his family and representatives, are well aware of “Curly” and the 3 stooges.
This is KEY and central to the upcoming acquittal. Why?
Because simply the questioning of the 3 Stooges will reveal (note I want to say *has revealed* but retain prudence) factual possessions that Trayvon carried on his person when he left the 7-11 but WERE NOT on him physically when he encountered George.
This specifically and directly undermines the entire prosecution narrative because it reflects the factual reality of Trayvon going ‘somewhere after he ran’ and then ‘returning’ to confront George.
Within this “going somewhere then return” to the physical location of the encounter the entire case against George Zimmerman falls apart, collapses and disintegrates in front of the tearful eyes of a prosecution about to be covered in egg faced embarrassment.
This case will never make it to trial in any form. The only matter being determined RIGHT NOW is how to acquit George Zimmerman without violence as a consequence of the insufferable rush to judgement and narration selling.
Who is going to take the blame for a false construct and investigation.? and who is going to be allowed to save face?
That expose’ is about to come right up… “cue the fat lady”.
Hmm.
So he stashed something somewhere, and then returned to beat on some guy.
The more this goes on, the less sympathy I have for his parents. They obviously didn’t care about him before his critical failure in the victim selection process.
“So he stashed something somewhere, and then returned to beat on some guy.”
“He was sitting right there on the porch!”
“he say he right near his father’s house”
“a couple of minutes later. . .”
If this is what I think one Mr. Tracy and Ms. Brandy are in hot water.
Agreed. I believe that they have withheld crucial evidence (aka. pot found on the porch)
in a criminal investigation. That is why Ms. Brandy has remained silent. Her profession is with the juvenile system and could possibly jeopardize her job.
Or he smoked a black and mile on his walk…but that’s too logical a conclusion to draw from the evidence of him possibly obtaining a black and mild now isn’t it?
or maybe he did not consume it during the walk… except that he was spotted looking like he was on drugs or something.
Also THC noted in ME autopsy samplings
the negligible amount that indicates that he smoked it sometime within in the last week you mean?
Also he wasn’t spotted looking like he was on drugs or something…George Zimmerman stated he looked like he was on drugs or something…doesn’t mean he looked like he was on drugs or something, means George thought that…the whole lazy swaying walk thing is popular amongst today’s teens…it’s easy to assume they are intoxicated when they are not.
then you have not listened to the tape…. because GZ told the operator that he saw someone who looked like he was on drugs or something…. it is in the tape.
“Also he wasn’t spotted looking like he was on drugs or something…George Zimmerman stated he looked like he was on drugs or something…doesn’t mean he looked like he was on drugs or something, ”
Can anyone explain to me what in the blue holy flyin’ chicken lips this means?
If I say someone looked crazy it isn’t an objective overarching fact that they looked crazy, it means that I thought they looked crazy…
Zimmerman also assumed he was armed and had no business being in that community…Zimmerman is not infallible.
can you point to anything in the transcript that supports your claim? You are making thigs up BennyC
make that “things”… that dang keyboard again
Good Grief. Get the hook. Bang the Gong. The customers are leaving the theater in droves.
Lazy swaying is one thing. Having to lean against the 711 counter to hold yourself up is not lazy swaying.
The full tox report has not been released yet. The amount of weed in his urine was not shown. Why do you think they do random pee tests for weed? If one knows that are going to be pee tested in advance they can flush their kidney’s with gallons of water ahead of time. Obviously TM did not do that. The levels when released should be interesting. DLR isn’t trying to seal his full tox report because they found iced tea and skittles in his system.
Well, then he broke the law by having someone buy him a cigar. It is illegal for anyone under 18 to buy or have someone buy cigarettes or cigars for them. It may be a minor crime, but it is still a crime.
I have not had any sympathy for those parents based upon their actions, as well as based upon members of my family and their reactions over when a loved one has died or been murdered. Yes, my cousin was murdered and her parents did not act in that way!!
GREAT job, as always! I very much enjoyed reading every single word of this and you have given me a renewed sense that there *is* hope for Zimmerman! I especially LOVED the cue the fat lady part. Kudos to you! I hope that fat lady is reading this RIGHT NOW and chokes on her dinner! Her 15 minutes is up and that goes for Crump and the Martin-Fulton clan as well! LONG LIVE THE WOLVERINES!
SD- Do you mean that TM stayed at the 711 until “6:24″ and not “7:24″? TM was pronounced dead much before 7:24PM.
Yes. My mistake.
You are welcome SD. We all have been on the timeline, down to the seconds.
Ain’t that the truth… I have never known the exact circumstances of dates from Februrary 26th to April 2nd like I do this year 2012. I can recite the exact whereabouts of any member of the scheme team during that timeframe from memory.
I’ve spent way too much time on this. (((that’s an embarassing admission))) 
Thank you so much for your search for the truth!. And for helping an innocent man who could very well be prosecuted for the mere act of defending his own life! I happened to be searching my radio for a good song on or around March 10th and ran across a discussion about the killing of a 17 year old in what I thought was Samford – which is a University near me. I continued listening and realized it was Sanford FL. The lady being interviewed was speaking about calling the DOJ (she was affiliated with the NAACP) and that they were going to have a march on Sanford on March 26th. When I started my search about the “accused murder”, I had difficulty finding any facts. I found an obscure website where someone claimed to know Zimmerman and that they had fought over the gun. The next website I found was Wagist and someone there linked me to the Treehouse. I have been here every since. I am so thankful for all of the people here who have researched and brought the truth to light. Thank you for all of your hard work.
OK, first, from the heart….WOW!!! That was good, edge-of-my-seat, breath-taking….the title itself is a definite eye-grabber! I truly cannot wait for that day.
Secondly, you are 100% correct. (I’ll admit, I was peeved about the video yesterday, but, did find it odd that the ball was always in his hands). In a subtle way, it’s kind of like brainwashing. Telling you what you are seeing, as you are seeing it makes you think you see things that may not be there. And to have it shown over and over, with the same narrative, just cements the idea in your head. An example, the “skittles and tea” thing….I’m sure a lot of people know what could be made with skittles and watermelon drink, but, everybody was told it was “tea”, so, of course, the little angel was buying tea. ok, I’ll shut up now….GOOD POST! Thank you.
I have been saying it from the start that TM stashed stuff then went after GZ.
I hope Mark NeJame enjoys the site…I’m curious to see if he addresses anything from Tree house in his upcoming commentaries
To have justice served for the Zimmermans will be an answered prayer – but, in that prayer I include the prosecution and conviction of the irresponsible, reckless, criminal media and those that worked along side them in the legal and political offices. Thank you for putting this information out for public consumption.
Every time I watched something about this story, the so called journalists added what they thought. HLN Nancy Grace was Horrible. She actually said George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon because he was black. I called her down on it, on twitter a few times… of course she didn’t respond. All the others that were supposedly journalists did the same. Nancy Grace is a lawyer, she knew better than to say what she did. George Zimmerman needs to file a lawsuit against HLN/CNN when this is all over.
She is a hype.artist – not much difference between her and the Jerry Springers – except she pretends to be respectable. I’m glad you sent her a message and voiced your opinion. There definitely needs to be day of reckoning for the media.
Dirty Laundry …”and the bubble headed bleach blonde comes on at 9, she can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye, it’s more interesting when people die to give us dirty laundry”…..
nice, another that came to mind would be Dave Edmunds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDAtsSi1ads
GZ started bypassing the lawyer and talking with the prosecutor directly
“I begged you not to go but you, said Goodbye, and now you’re tellin’ me, all your lies
I hear ya knocking (now for a plea bargain) but you can’t come in, I hear ya knockin’, go back where ya been”
Hi Sharia Crimes,
Subject: Incompetent Lawyers.
What “get me” is that fact that Nancy Grace does not understand the concept of Character assassination, slander and libel. You can NOT say, “George Zimmerman MURDERED Trayvon.
Sharia> “HLN Nancy Grace was Horrible. She actually said George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon because he was black”
Otis> She was taught to say, George Zimmereman ALLEGEDLY murdered Trayvon. If you don’t say that – you are open to a civil suit for LIBEL.
Otis> Can anyone check this. In fact the massive “rush to judgment”, is Crump starting this libel, and the media “repeating it — endlessly”. GZ could sue these bastards for all they are worth – but they would settle out of court.
Excellent, I love it!!!
Pingback: Update #28 – George Zimmerman Will Be Acquitted – P.E.R.I.O.D. | The Last Refuge « HCS's Place
Aw, sheesh! And I walked right into it. Gittin’ edumacated is hard.
So….stumbled into it again, accepting the premise that the MSM puts forth and rather than questioning the premise, we enter the conversation and legitimize it by our intense and serious efforts to be fair in our perceptions.
I suspected by the end of the evening, Sundance, that you were teachin’ somethin’ we weren’t gittin’. I am WAY TOO TRUSTING on so many levels. Considering the fact that we’ve been pounding our heads on this very principle, I’m bummed that I took their bait.
“That expose’ is about to come right up… “cue the fat lady”.”
Darn you Sundance! My screen was all nice and clean before I read that line.
I will add here, as opposed to a more “visible and imprudent update”, that forces are quite well organized and armed with fact based information to secure the unconditional release of George Zimmerman. I personally do not believe, for good reason, that a stand your ground hearing will even take place.
The key conversation will take place out of sight in Judge Lester’s chambers with only the prosecution and defense present to coordinate.
Please understand that my considerations for posting information have to carry a measure of prudent reflection. I am well aware that the “Scheme Team” (all of them) regularly view what we have collected. It is one of the reasons you have not seen TrayMom and the Church of the Evil offerings tour in the past two weekends.
Their noted absence from the “Tour of Tears” has far less to do with a lack of financial desire, and far more to do with exposure avoidance. They H.A.T.E. me.
……. Good – That.
However, do not for one second drop your guard. As I have stated from the outset, when they are on their heals is the moment to push back harder. Do not to pause, relent, or let-up. They must be relentlessly watched and exposed, so keep those eyes wide open and send the info when you see it.
WOLVERINES !!!!
I becoming as enamored with you as I was with Andrew Breitbart…and that is saying a lot. So proud of you sundance…give butch my best and props to her too for sharing you with us!
Butchy sends you a (((cyber hug)))
and a big Hey There !!
Psst! Your order is ready.
Ohhh delicious. Youze the bestest
The Father needs to do the right thing and admit he told police it wasn’t his son’s voice on that tape. There’s a reason he’s not suing the local affiliate that reported that bit of information a few days after the shooting.
By the way, when did Chad who was ‘waiting for his snack’ call his parents or Trayvon to ask where he was? I can’t believe people fell for that story. It makes sense that Trayvon would have met up with those 3 because they had the only thing he’d want to walk 1 mile in the rain for. He sure as hell wasn’t walking to school for a mile in the rain.
WOLVERINES!!!
“…They H.A.T.E. me. ……. Good – That…”
I believe it is *FAR* better to be despised by the despicable than to be admired by the admirable!
e-mail inbound
SD, you should put these two pics at the top of your site as a “humane” warning.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/CajunKelly/78277814.jpg
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/CajunKelly/f6f6acbf.jpg
SD yall are awesome!!!!
WOLVERINES!! Hip! Hip!
Alright… VERY cautiously optimistic here. And about Wolverines, you really should adopt his cousin*, the honey badger, too. Honey badgers don’t care what ANYONE thinks about them…. they go about their business, doing what they gotta do, and that’s that!
(* Yeah, actually I know they’re not really related. But I don’t care!)
Ok, I’m not asking for a response to this, but I just need to say what I’m thinking: It’ll of course be great if George is released. But I really, really hope that doesn’t involve some kind of plea bargain (like even involuntary manslaughter). Because if so, there will still be lawsuits hanging over his (and others’) head, and he’ll still never, for the rest of his life, be able to say to the world, “I’m innocent.”
I can’t begin to imagine the content of the press conference that the Scheme Team will hold as this unfolds. It will inform us as to their level of comprehension regarding fact-based and ongoing exposure that is a new thng in their twisted, twisted world.
“I personally do not believe, for good reason, that a stand your ground hearing will even take place. The key conversation will take place out of sight in Judge Lester’s chambers with only the prosecution and defense present to coordinate.”
What do you mean by this? Do you think the judge is going to push the prosecution to drop the charges?
Cannot quite respond. But both Prosecution and Defense share discovery during the pre-trial process. So if something substantial were to surface before trial motions…. well….
I hope Corey is under suicide watch…on second thought. Nahhh. Hey tomorrow is a work day?
You are on the money about a plea deal. That’s all this is. She’s trying to boost her cause for re-election and not be the one who lets an ‘evil white man’ on the loose. It’s all a show. Mark and company just have to hope the Judge is not a buffoon and that George doesn’t do anything stupid in the meantime. They are without question very aggressive and proud of it. You can find many articles/interviews re: Corey and her pride in her outrageous (record setting) conviction rate. It’s her life.
Of course, she is not an idiot and knows she won’t get a conviction but at least it will look like she is serious. This is all self serving and, as you stated, they brought in another prosecutor to help force a plea. That should be an interesting scenario. “We want you to take a plea deal because you’re the only person with bruises on the face and neck and, 2 seconds before the shot, if the cops arrived, Trayvon would be the one in jail while you are on tape asking for the police to join you. ”
Good luck!
watch out SD the spelling nazi is sniffing about – heels, not heals.
Their, there, they’re. It’ll be okay.
Sorry Tilda but this heel thing is one that needs to be fixed!! Not quite the same as Their, there and they’re which seems to get a lot of people confused.
Often a Spelling Nazi in the past, I now firmly resist the temptation to blue pencil when the writer is making a passionate and erudite case. It’s like poking a stick in the bicycle wheels and comes off a bit supercilious. So I’ve given it up.
I wonder if any drug sniffing dogs have been employed in the home that TM was staying in or the general neighborhood near the shooting site? If the “Goods” that TM was carrying could be found that would be a hell of a shock to the professional criers!
Hi Inspector Rudy, The police would need a “probable cause” to search Brandi’s Condo. There was no way they could get that.
Welfare check, I think I hear Chad screaming.
It’s the unexpected brilliance of replies like that one, John G, that play such havoc with my computer screen.
Yep, I’m pretty sure I hear him sobbing, “Don’t hit me with that belt just because I dropped the baseball again!”
“possessions that Trayvon carried on his person when he left the 7-11 but WERE NOT on him physically when he encountered George.”
I was under the impression that skittles and the drink were found at the crime scene. Are you referring to the “blunt” that is being assumed to have been purchased for him by the 3 guys? While the narrative given for that time at the 7/11 is most creative and “fits” the video….we don’t know as fact that he did get a blunt. Tray’s interaction with the three guys was not shown on the video. We did not see Tray get a blunt. Even if he did get a blunt we also don’t know if he smoked it on the way back to the condo…… ergo it was not found at the crime scene. Accepting the account given for Tray’s time at the 7/11 also falls under “cognitive acceptance.” Critical thinking was used in developing the 7/11 scenario but since we did not actually see him get the blunt…we can only suppose he did. It’s also possible that Tray asked to use the bathroom and that was where he went….or there was a quick downpour and he was waiting for it to subside.
As you said in the article…..”It is the narrative that draws the conclusion. NOT what you actually witness. This is the key distinction behind Critical Thinking as opposed to Cognitive Acceptance.”
As far as the video of the stepdad and the kid…we saw a kid and his step dad in the back yard, both wearing mitts and the kid had a ball. The stepdad walked up to the kid and whacked him a couple of times then walked away from the kid some distance after the beating and stood in a pose like he was preparing for the kid to throw the ball back to him. Whatever the kid was saying resulted in the stepdad walking back up to the kid and giving him a few more whacks….maybe the kid was saying somehting like “I don’t want to play catch with you” or “you are a *&^%$# jerk and I hate you.” The issue some of us took with the video is wielding a belt and wearing a mitt don’t go together when playing catch with your stepson. After whacking the kid for whatever reason (mouthing off, refusing to play catch) the stepdad doesn’t put his belt back on (if he was even wearing it) or lay it down….but contines to hold it in his other hand…for what purpose one has to guess. There was also an eye witness to this incident who saw and heard things prior to video taping the beating…his account of what was happening seemed quite credible to me and others. It is possible to use critical thinking when determining if one is going to accept the narrative being given.
….we don’t know as fact that he did get a blunt. Tray’s interaction with the three guys was not shown on the video. We did not see Tray get a blunt….
You are correct “we” didn’t. But, alas, unfortunately for the prosecution, Curly was not alone…. Hence, well….. nevermind. Nice to see you. It’s a good day.
My guess, the clerk knew all of them. Including the girl.
Your guess would be correct.
agreed, TM got “carded” for the blunts and the stooges didn’t
What girl?
There is a blond girl in the complete video. They redacted it so you don’t see her when she comes in, to protect her identity. But you can see her leave.
Watch out for blondes, John G. We’ll get ya, every time!
Which video is that on? I never saw it.
Blondie @ 9:40
She witness “exchange”
outside CVS…she was there in car outside at time
I had been of the opinion that the clerk knew the 3 stooges just because he was not in the least bit perturbed when one of them came in looking like Kenny. Yet, he was profiling TM when he was in the store
I wondering if if maybe the clerk gave them the heads up that the kid outside needed someone to buy him a blunt? I hate to say it but some “heads” can know one when they see one. Since there were cameras maybe he knew he could illegally sellthe kid a blunt in case he was sent by the ATF
Not from what I perceived. The first transaction occurred outside the store because Curly had the money in his hand.
Tray had a lighter and asked the guy at the 711 about the smokes/etc behind him and you can see the body language/reaction of the clerk to make it clear…no dice, sorry dude. Tray can’t go to the 711 for no reason, after being suspended from school, unless he has a cover story. He’s a teenager – of course he’s not going to be 100% honest in this situation. It’s not an indictment on his character – it’s what we all were doing.
So the tea and skittles were just a cover for what he wanted. No real crime in that – but the problem is if you are going to sell a 17 year old boy as a 12 year old who graducated kindergarten, who was shot 3 days after birth, you might want to find a kid without a lighter, drugs in his system and 3 school suspensions with a suppressed story about him swinging at a bus driver.
Wrong kid to whore out. Of course, the really odd thing is if he planned to meet those guys would he have bothered to inquire about the smokes/etc behind the clerk? Maybe it was just a random coincidence that those guys were there. If so, they inadvertently helped hurt his family’s cause.
there was no iced tea. It was a can of Arizona Watermelon juice and it was purple skittles.
you might be assuming the wrong thing. I actually think he was asking about the blunts.
Also, he kept looking towards the door as though he was expecting someone to arrive.
“I was under the impression that skittles and the drink”
You mean Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail? At least you didn’t say, “iced tea”. LOL
The Drank JG…allow him to recant!
“Sorry, cracka, it’s pronounced ‘I-T’”
-Rev. Al Sharpton
Using cognitive thinking concerning TM, one would still have to factor in the extra 20 minutes he took to get back on a cold, dizzly evening. Any normal person would be booking it; however, 20 minutes would be about right to smoke a joint (blunt). You must put that in with the apparant meeting that TM had with the 3 stooges.
Watermelon drink, purple Skittles, $2 that was palmed, extra 20 minutes, his not being able to stand still and kept bouncing against the counter, the 3 stooges and his finally leaving after they left 7-11. Way too many strikes against TM against TM for coincidence.
Also, the pin (button) is exactly over the heart according to the still picture above with the red arrow. Was there residue or not? I still believe it is a critical piece of evidence showing TM’s mind set before the attack if he wasn’t wearing it.
Have we seen all of the 7-11 videos? What about the gate surveillance from the condos? There were probably security videos that we have no idea exist.
If you were installing security cameras in a 7-11, and had one covering the back of the store and the counter; another covering the front of the store including the sidewalk and parking lot, and part of the counter; two covering the counter; wouldn’t you have one covering the door, the sidewalk on the side of the store; and maybe the rest of the shelves (when Martin is looking for skittles he goes out of camera range).
When Martin enters the store, it is 11 seconds from the time he goes out of view to the left, and before he shows up turning the corner to the back; and that is about the time that the blonde takes – assuming that she is at the corner in the 3 seconds that are missing (redacted).
So a number of possibilities:
(1) No need for a camera angle towards the door, since the clerk will be able to see if someone is pointing a gun at him, just before they leap over the counter;
(2) Camera wasn’t working;
(3) Video for that angle was not released.
The videos are for the clubhouse, some are inside. Others are of the pool area or the covered area on the back of the clubhouse. About 1/2 of the mailbox area can be seen. It is at 1 second intervals, and though in color, they almost look black and whiter because of the low light locations.
I’m pretty sure you can tell when the police, etc. are responding because there are flashes of light.
You might be able to get some measure of the intensity of the rain.
“This specifically and directly undermines the entire prosecution narrative because it reflects the factual reality of Trayvon going ‘somewhere after he ran’ and then ‘returning’ to confront George.
Within this “going somewhere then return” to the physical location of the encounter the entire case against George Zimmerman falls apart, collapses and disintegrates in front of the tearful eyes of a prosecution about to be covered in egg faced embarrassment.”
It undermines more than the prosecution narrative. Hopefully LEO / prosecution will wipe the egg off their faces and investigate the real culprits. Perhaps an actual investigator can redo that Dee Dee interview, w/o the script.
Makes him guilty of a Hooded Hate Crime I think.
Enter Mr. Wolfinger if he is still in business. Enter Chief Lee if he is still around. What blows me away is if the state and Fed investigation stopped with the information filing. I had assumed it was ongoing. Oh well. Assume nothing, verify everything. The new State Attorney must be to replace Corey. I see no way she can stay. The State will have to withdraw and drop the charges. There is no case. None zero zip. It is all a hoax. Instigated by Crump and Parks.
WOLVERINES!!! Brilliant!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This made my day:)
Very well stated Omar! WOLVERINES!!!!!!
Ditto!
I can’t stand this! It is one thing for willfully ignorant types like those at justice quest to keep parroting the lie that “Zimmerman was told not to get out of the car”, but for a professional lawyer to post that nonsense on the official website for her firm is unfathomable.
Attorney Joy Ragan claims to have read all the discovery, yet states unequivocally “We know for sure that Zimmerman was told not to get out of the car.” Attorney Joy Ragan has proven herself to be a worhless lawyer who can’t parse simple evidence. She also gets this wrong: “There are statements in the discovery which indicate that two men were running. It appears, therefore, that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon Martin.” Joy Ragan, you claim to have went through the discovery. If this were true then surely you would know that this witness, who was not wearing her contacts or glasses at the time, later changed her testimony to one indistinct shadow.
I hope any prospective clients doing an internet search for Attorney Joy Ragan will find this post and save themselves a lot of grief.
http://www.theraganlawfirm.com/blog/
“If this were true then surely you would know that this witness, who was not wearing her contacts or glasses at the time, later changed her testimony to one indistinct shadow.”
St. Skittles, running North to bestow his blessing on GZ.
Actually if I remember correctly (its been a few weeks since I listened to the “911″ call but I am pretty damned sure the Dispatcher told GZ to keep an eye on Tradymark. Therefore he got out of the car to do said thing when he lost site of him, then kept walking to get an address for the cops.
You got it. And the dispatch was coordinating with the Cops at the same time by radio.
Not those exact words, but I’m sure to George it DID seem that the dispatcher was asking him to keep an eye on him, even if that meant getting out of the truck. “Let me know if this guy does anything else,” and then a minute later, “He’s running? Which way’s he running?” It was only then that George left the truck. So whether he meant to do it or not, I think the dispatcher in effect ASKED George to follow.
While in contact with the Patrol Car on the radio. In other words coordinating between the two.
Thanks for the exact words I probably should have listened before posting but you guys seem to know the call by heart (or so it seems. lol) and I knew you would know what I was talking about. The point is if I was told to “let me know if this guy does anything else” I would have gotten out of the car too when I lost sight of him. It wasn’t until he was OUT of the truck already that he was told he didn’t need to do that.
…….willfully ignorant types like those at justice quest to keep parroting the lie that “Zimmerman was told not to get out of the car”
Oh… you notice that too
It’s worse than that. Said witness was interviewed outside by Serino and she tells a story about being downstairs in the kitchen, and seeing the running, and seeing a fight and then hearing a shot.
A half hour later Serino is interviewing her sister, and Serino asks about whether her sister was there, and she says, “yeah but she was upstairs”. I think the downstairs sister must be older, because she had attended the meeting where it was suggested that if they had seen or heard anything they should call the police. She apparently thought she hadn’t seen anything that would new or different so hadn’t called.
She had been in the kitchen cooking, had heard some noise, had gone to the patio window, seen some flailing, heard John, apparently thought he was a cranky neighbor yelling at kids that he was going to call the police and went back to the kitchen.
By the time, the other sister was re-interviewed, she was upstairs, had her contacts out, had gone into the back bedroom to put something on a chair or pick up something, and walked back toward the front (her bedroom) when she heard a noise. She thought her sister downstairs had dropped something, or that the doggie door blocking the stairs had fallen over. It was only when her sister came upstairs that she realized someone had been shot.
She sort of guessed the time from her glance until the shot based on what she had been doing and figured 15 seconds. The timing is way off unless there was someone running up to join the fight. Depending on how bad her vision is, she might have just seen a flash of light on the windows – and it wasn’t enough to catch her attention until she heard a noise, and then some time later be told that the noise was a shot.
I know I’m asking a stewpid question, but is O’Mara aware of the 711 informtion?
Big YES. You must not have read the post.
Big THUMBS UP!!
What you have done is absolutley amazing!
Okay, marginally off topic, but I asked this in an open thread the other day, and judging by the answer I figured it’d be more likely to find an answer in a Zimmerman thread hehe…
but I remember a video where it mentioned a paramedic describing how Zimmerman’s face was like 75% covered in blood, and that the photos taken were after the first round of cleaning it. Anyone know offhand where to find that?
Thanks, and thanks for all the research and updates!
Hi Raiikun – Both his nose (from having been punched), and his head were bloody. Some pictures do exist. Medics are good at stopping the blood – that is there job. They suggested that GZ go to the hospital FIRST. He refused, probably wanted to go to the police and tell his story. The issue now, is that TM had no “fist strikes” on him. His face was clean. But TM had GZ’s blood on his fists, and TMs fists were battered. Rember, for self-defense, you need to fear the possiblity of great bodily harm. You don’t actually havee to demonstrate actual bloody damage. The “beat” back of the head PROVES that GZ was on the ground – fighting for his life. This is clearly a SYG, case.
I said early on that I believe, that when Traydmark knocked GZ to the ground on his back, GZ’s gun holster was revealed, and at that point Traydmark went for it…possibly when he said (according to GZ) “now you’re gonna die”.
When GZ went DOWN from that first un-expected powerful blow to the fact, and TM jumped on top of GZ, he was in MORTAL DANGER. He could have fired at that point. There are indeed “drugged up psychos” running around. Further, GZ had NO IDEA IF TM WAS ARMED. GZ HAD TO ASSUME THE WORST!! To, after the fact, state that this was “un-armed” TM – is truly stupid. You can not “assume that” as you are in the process of being beaten to death by this thug.
It was on the net today that the father of a 4 year girl caught a child molester in the act and beat the perp to death with his fists. I think it was in Texas, so they are discussing it in terms of justifiable homicide in defense of his daughter. So yes, fists can be lethal.
Of course fists can be lethal. All it takes is a blow to the head in the right spot for someone to die…..
….. and I keep on asking the same question: If fists are lethal, does that mean that we should be advocating for hands to be banned and chopped off?
“…and I keep on asking the same question: If fists are lethal, does that mean that we should be advocating for hands to be banned and chopped off?”
If they’re the hands of a child molester caught in the act? Yes, absolutely. Preferably gnawed off by rabid wolverines. Slowly.
If they’re the hands of a father protecting his 4-year-old daughter from such a molester? Nope. The only thing to be done with such hands is to make a sculpture of them. Call it something like “Fatherhood.”
Of course, I may be a little prejudiced…
Good answer sir!!
“So yes, fists can be lethal.”
Just ask Duk Koo Kim and Ray “Boom Boom” Mancini. Well, Mancini. To talk to Duk, you’ll need a ouija board.
AND Mancini’s fists were padded, under the rules of a boxing match – not a street-level “ground & pound” with Kim’s head bouncing off a curb with every punch!
The paramedics and firefighters who responded were interviewed about a month later. There were two units, a rescue unit (ambulance) and an engine unit. 5 persons total. Where I live, it is normal practice to send a pumper out with an ambulance – at least if one is available.
I’m not sure how much they specifically remembered. It sounds like they are so trained that rather than remembering what they did, they remembered what they were trained to do. One of the firefighters did remember removing the can from Martin’s sweatshirt pocket.
After they had declared Martin dead, they went out and treated Zimmerman, mainly cleaning up his head wounds with hydrogen peroxide. One of the paramedics made an estimate of 45%, but that was a month afterwards.
The report made by the EMT says that “patient states he was assaulted and his head was struck on the pavement”. They did make some assessment for concussion. They told the police that Zimmerman probably needed some stitches, and offered to transport, to a hospital, but reading between the lines, I doubt they pushed it too much.
WOW! Was totally on the edge of my seat. That was great! I love reading your stuff on here!!!!!. The parents(baby Tray Tray’s) are just out for money. I am glad we are NOT hearing/seeing them on TV. I sure hope GZ sues the shit out of all of them and I mean ALL. I feel so bad for GZ and was he has to go through. Justice for George Zimmerman!
Agreed. Justice for George Zimmerman and the Zimmerman family.
I was about to eat dinner, then got that last pic.
You owe me a dinner.
LOL, me too Yuck!! I threw up in my mouth a little! haha
Get Matt Gutman some dinner, too.
http://westofthefive.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/eat-crow.jpg
I wasn’t certain what picture you were talking about then I went back and looked. You almost ruined my dinner. Angellah Corey could gag a maggot off of a gut wagon.
Fortunately; the antidote is to watch the video and photos of Governor Palin competing in the Miss Alaska Swim suit competition.
MILF2016!!
she is very shapely for her age
Yeah, lumpy is technically a shape….
you must be thinking of Hillary. Sarah is in fact quite shapely for her age!! I wish I had her figure… sigh!!
Palin is shapely for any age.
Unfortunately, we got conned into thinkingbthat a woman’s IQ is inversely proportional to her bra size. When they released her emails a Gov, someone did an analysis of her writing for Grammer and syntax. Palin writes at a higher level than moat fortune 500 CEOs. In fact Palin writes better using her thumbs on her blackberry than BHO did as editor of the Harvard Law Review or Michel Obama did in her insipidMasters Thesis.
I know I sent it to him lol
Regarding yesterday’s video of playing ball, I was almost sure I saw a yellow ball in the boy’s hand the whole time. But, I had taken out my contacts and didn’t have my glasses on, and that fellow’s windowblinds kept getting in my way. Heck, I’m not even sure there were two people in that backyard.
Bahahaha!!!! That was good.
I wasn’t sure what was going on either, but I suspected a trap.
Well if you recant errors before you are under threat of exposure you get a pass I think. I just got back from class and sure am glad to see this. I would think Mr. Tracy and Ms. Green might be in some hot water unless Ms. Green got jealous and “dropped a dime”
on Mr. Tracy. I can’t wait to see what is going to happen.
The Cracker will be busy for years. The MSM is a target rich environment.
Laughing is very difficult when someone has a cold. Therefore such joking needs to be banned… and heads should roll
Hmmmmm taken out contacts…. now where did I hear that before??
lol
I think a wise person develops a coherent picture of events. Those who MADE UP THEIR MIND, BASED ON CRUMP’S “EMMETT-TILL” story (of 50 years ago) will never look at the evidence and facts in a logical manner. They will never see TM as a “Thug in training” wishing to emulate “No Limit records, and his implied hero, C-Murder. But was truly “bothers” me, is the fact that Trayvon had NO KEY TO BRANDI’S CONDO. Further, and logically, there was NO CHAD TO LET HIM IN. Thus, it is hard to avoid the fact that these people where telling FIBS TO SUPPORT CRUMB’S NARRRATIVE. Even the “fractured” DeDe story, states that TM reached Braiindi’s Condo. The suggesting that TM was “trapped” falls apart, if you know the map of the area. By I agree, GZ will not be FREE, until the fat lady sings, DERSHOWITZ, YOU ARE CORRECT. Her best bet is that, 1) SYG is presented, and the Judge releases George, or 2) In discovery – the Judge determines that the evidence exculpates George, and sets him free. In both cases Cases get “off the hook”. If there are orderly protests by a certain minority – well this is a free country.
“If there are orderly protests by a certain minority – well this is a free country.”
Is this humor? Cuz I’m thinking get the National Guard ready to roll.
JG, I agree, they will IMHO be riots. Sadly but I am like you Get the National Guard ready to roll.
ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE)
–ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE –Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK’s Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12?reflink=MW_news_stmp
Couple of things:
1. I LOVE THIS SITE. Y’all are awesome.
2. I know it will be easier for the sheeple to believe the narrative than to know or admit they were hoodwinked in to opening their pocketbooks by Team Skittles and TrayMom and TrayDad. That is really what it is about for them, the dinero. It keeps the perpetual victim machine well oiled.
3. Probably we can expect Team Skittles to spin the other way to keep the calm.
4. George is probably in the safest place right now as hard as it might be to believe. If any harm befalls him in custody there is NO explaining that away. If he were harmed because of a “leak” out of custody that would be easy to gloss over.
5. I’d like to see many many people sued. (I’m generally opposed to that) Too bad that the members of SPD that were villified won’t/can’t sue.
6.. Will Crump and Parks be disbarred? That would be fun.
5. I’m not too sure they won’t.
6. IMHO, a rigorous LEO investigation is also in order.
6. Conducted by who?
FBI, after Romney takes over.
Wolverines are better investigators than the FBI. They out investigated the FBI by a mile. Diawatha could teach them a few lessons. With a home computer vs. all the supercomputers they have.
God bless GZ tonight.
Needs to have WHITE in quotation marks….
Except George Zimmerman is not “White” or Caucasian. He’s Hispanic, despite his last name. I don’t know why people keep ignoring his obvious ethnicity.
He ditched his weed on the porch because he was going to go back and rough up Zimmerman, it was premeditated, and Tracy Martin needs to tell the truth. He was a crappy father, but he knew if his son wasn’t home and his weed was left behind, something indeed bad happened to his son. Now, if he came home at 10:30, the crime scene was cleaned up by then, he didn’t notice the commotion?
“He’s a mama’s boy. He will never fight. That’s his problem.”
Where’s Howie, how does that “recantation” defense work?
Whups…I was so excited about all this I answered your wrong post.
what’s also funny is that no one deduced that he could’ve possibly just bought a damn black and mild…which people DO smoke individually…without drugs…in fact I’d wager over 90% of their usage is without marijuana.
So he got a black and mild for his walk….
Guess he was a ruthless thug who deserved to die…great detective work….
Hee Hee thanks for that chuckle,…. Obviously you have not been at the The Last Refuge long
Settle in, use the sidebar search to look up the Trayvon Martin Links and maybe peel the
Progfog from your eyelidsHell, him having smoked the black and mild on his walk makes much more sense as to why he would stash JUST the alleged drugs he allegedly had on him (zero evidence) and not the can of juice he obviously didn’t use as a weapon even though it’d make a pretty damn good weapon.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/CajunKelly/f9cc5460.gif
Looks like “Moon over Miami – or I mean Orlando”. I hope Crump-Team is watching this site. It was truly meant for him. I almost spewed my coffee across my keyboard on that one.
so he couldn’t have just wanted a black and mild?
why not?
If the 3 stooges had bought blunt wrappers you’d have a point…but they bough black and milds (or swisher sweets or any other kind of cigarillo),
People DO smoke those…regularly…I use to in college…no drugs necessary.
The ME autopsy stated there was THC in his system, when the full report is published, the truth will be known
THC in his system of that low an amount is a VERY low amount…do your research.
Take your own advice and look at how long THC stays in your “blood stream” prior to liver filtration. If you want to be taken “seriously” you should at least respond with factual information.
This is not a place for irrational discourse without merit just to create distraction.
Please and Thank You.
Seriously–if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a???? cow? That is line of reasoning I’m drawing from your posts tonight. Are you saying that he just innocently bought 2 ingredients for lean, and had someone innocently buy him a blunt, I mean black and mild to refreshingly if not illegally smoke on the 50 minute walk back to Brandi’s condo? If that is the case, then could George Zimmerman just have innocently not recogonized him as a kid from the community and watched him while he could, then after the dsipatcher to him to, walked back to his SUV?
if it quacks like a duck? the only thing that has been shown on this post is that he may or may not have had a black and mild bought for him…that’s it. Nothing more or less…
yet you are all extrapolating ridiculous theories (trading weed for a damn black and mild? wtf?) to further demonize the dead kid because you are all upset at the media’s piss poor handling of this case and the race-baiters jumping on it as if any of them are Trayvon Martin….so to get back at them…you piss and dance on the grave of a dead teenager.
Congrats to you all.
That is not a “kid”…. The individual who died happens to be a 17 year old youth, almost an adult.
He was not some kid. He was in fact responsible for his decisions. Stop kidding yourself.
As learned from fellow poster today, I will say this. I understand your comments and will hold them in to consisderation for future thought. Though, i may not understand your thought process. I thank you for your thoughts. BUT i will say this; none of us are dancing on the grave of dead young man. He demonized himself or at least his actions while being young and naive. We are all sorry that the lives of two familes have been destroyed. Thank you for voicing your opinions and I will respectfully have to disagree with many of your thoughts as you do mine. Thank you for your time, Seriously?.
Very graciously put, Somuchtolearn. The voice of dignity stands in excellent contrast to the spite-filled post you’re replying to.
Feeding time.
and on top of that you completely ignore the fact that George Zimmerman was viciously beaten by this little thug. Why should we give any sympathy towards the family of such a vicious thug?
I’m sorry, I’ve seen vicious beatings…that was not a vicious beating at all. A beating? Maybe…vicious? now you’re exaggerating.
There are plenty of people who have fallen and hit their head, with no blood or wounds visible. They died a day or two later because of brain swelling. The next head slam TM could have done to GZ could very easily have killed him.
OH, and there are a few here looking for volunteers to do the same beat down on them to see if they still agree that GZ had no reason to fear for his life. Sounds like you would be a willing volunteer if you don’t think the beating was anything serious.
Sounds to me like you will make a great subject for the experiment that someone here wants to conduct. You too can have your nose broken, your eyes blackened and your head smashed against the concrete. Then we will see if you think the attack is vicious or not.
Can I also see if I’m being beaten to within an inch of my life up until I pull the trigger if I can scream clearly “Help, Help Me” 14+ times without interruption and without there being a single break or muffle?
All of his injuries can be the result of a single action…and due to the lack of severity most likely were…a single punch, a single fall…all of his injuries can be conjured up by one action…and due to the lack of Zimmerman’s blood or skin anywhere on Trayvon’s hands it most likely was a single swift action and not a sustained brutal MMA style beating like you lot pretend it was. And no, I do not think an ass whooping by a single skinny teenager is enough reason to fear for my life…but then again I’m not a little bitchboy like your God Zimmerman.
Seriously? Morons. Benny is that you?
The day after the altercation the local tv spoke to the witness who saw the beat down. CHECK YOUR FACTS AND NOT YOUR EGO.
oh yeah… poor excuse…
A vicious beating is a vicious beating. Punching someone in the face is a vicious beating… as for what you claim to have seen….
…. and thousands wouldn’t believe you.
Really? Can you supply a link that shows that there was no injuries whatsoever or blood found on Trayvon’s hands?
make that a second request for the same thing… and whilst you are providing a link to the autopsy report, make sure that you do not bother with that low down SOB funeral director because he was lying.
In some respects you are correct about us “pissing and dancing on the grave of a dead teenager” with all of these speculations. IMHO, the most pertinent facts are that TM had sucker punched GZ, then had gotten on top of him to hold him down while he baterred his skull into the concrete sidewalk. At that point, it didn’t matter if TM had been smoking pot or just a cigar or nothing at all. It didn’t matter if TM had bought iced tea or watermelon juice to mix with codeine. Contrary to what Crump or Corey have stated, it would not have even mattered if GZ had “profile” TM and followed him after being told not to as Crump and Corey claim. Unless GZ assaulted TM in a misguided attempt to detain TM for the police, TM had zero justification to prosecute an unrelenting, potentially lethal assault against GZ. The physical location of all of the physical evidence that documents the location of the fight and shooting combined with the time indices from GZ’s call to the police and the neighbor’s calls to 911 on which the screaming and shooting can be heard demonstrate that there simply was not time for GZ to have tracked TM down and assaulted TM in the manner that people have been encouraged to presume. This should have been a simple case that after a referral to a grand jury would be dismissed as a justifiable homide.
Unfortunately; Crump and Jackson and Jellison decided to cash in and all of the poverty pimps including those in Congress and the Whitehouse decided to politicize it. The GZ-Martin shooting has even been used as an excuse to repeal Stand Your Ground laws, criminalize self defense, and even make it a crime to take notice of suspicious persons and report them to the police. We are going to expose everything about Trayvon Martin not to “piss on his grave” but to destroy the credibility of all of the poverty pimps who attempted to exploit this shooting to line their pockets and advance their political agenda.
As the judge said to O’Mara, “Deal With It.”
what James said, with brass knobs on.
You are taking Zimmerman’s word as 100% objective fact…in fact your whole defense of him relies solely on his word now.
Question…if he, at some point, tried to grab Martin…or if after a hostile exchange of words and demeanor he reached suddenly for his phone (as has been suggested) is that justification enough for Martin to fear for his safety and punch him in the face (the legal and logical answer is yes btw)
Stop reacting to the case, involving GZ and TM by those who cash in on it or turn it into some agenda…everyone assumes I must agree with Al Sharpton and the other race baiting bitches who do more harm to black culture than good because I believe George Zimmerman to be guilty in the……don’t even want to say murder as I think manslaughter is max he should be punished for….of Trayvon Martin based on the facts in the case.
All the scenarios with Trayvon doubling back to purposely attack Zimmerman make no logical sense to me….Zimmerman, a self appointed protector, wanting to detain someone who he had convicted of some imaginary crime so this specific asshole would not get away makes more sense to me than a laid back stoner teen purposefully initiating conflict …while on the phone…after he ran away from the person.
Most “thug” acting people are only hardcore in groups…individually they are rather pussy or non confrontational…Trayvon was alone, at night, being followed….and he ran…I’m sure he didn’t know that in the eyes of his follower he was already a convicted felon, and I’m sure when he stopped to ask Zimmerman why he was following him (another odd thing if his desire was to simply fatally beat him up…) he was genuinely curious why the hell he was being followed.
You, me, any witness, police, any judge or lawyer absolutely do not know what happened after Zimmerman got off the phone. The only thing we do know is that these 2 men who both had an insane amount of time to get to safe areas ended up meeting 30 yards from Zimmerman’s car and 70 yards from Brandy Green’s home….and one of them ended up dead.
If I were a juror and if everything we know about the specific events of that night were all we knew he’d walk due to reasonable doubt…I have no problem with that reality as that’s how it should be. But as a thinking human being I cannot make sense of his actions and his changing stories (at least as expressed by third parties close to him) make no sense and cast reasonable doubt of his innocence. That coupled with his wording and his past actions and his sense of protection for the neighborhood, and his lack of desire to let another “Asshole” get away…leads me to believe that he acted irresponsibly and is culpable in the homicide of Trayvon Martin.
Note…no race, no baby faced media bullshit, no Sharpton, no Corey, no Crump…none of that is necessary for my thought process. I actively avoid MSM and anything other than official statements and blog opinions (both right and left…sad this became a political issue but thank you MSM and politicians for that) because I despise the MSM.
I formulated this opinion seeing Zimmerman as a man my age and Trayvon as a teenager who just turned 17 3 weeks ago. I don’t care that Z is half white or Trayvon is black. their genetic makeup means nothing.
Three weeks after I turned 17 I was handed ammunition to load and fire my M-14 Rifle issued to me only a few days after I turned 17 as a matter of fact, Where upon My D. I. marched us to the rifle range at P. I. and taught us how to kill people with long range accurate firepower. Three months after I turned 17 I was undergoing Infantry Training at Camp Geiger N. C. learning shooting, tactics and how to kill with a wide variety of weapons. When I had been 17 for 6 months I had graduated from I. T. R. and became a Marine 03 rifleman, specializing in Breaching fortified positions.
With all due respect, Being 17 does not make a person a child who cannot attack, maim, wound or kill. Legal emancipation of a child is between 18-21 in some states where the children become adults by law. That does not mean that before age of emancipation they are still children mentally and physically unable to obey the most basic of rules and laws. As a 17 year old Marine I was able to understand rules and law’s able to understand and use safely weapons of great destructive potential.
His being 17 does not make treyvon a helpless child.
I base my opinions upon having raised 3 sons.
nuff said
since we have not seen any defesnse directly from GZ what you are stating is what I term absolute mushroom fodder.
Statements have come from a variety of sources. The most logical explanation happens to be the one that ties in with what GZ stated.
TM is the one with the deep voice. Since GZ has a very distinct cadence, it seemed clear to me that the voice I heard crying for help had the same cadence as the one that I heard from GZ. It was not a deep voice.
There are plenty of reasons to believe the Zimmerman story. So far, considering the number of changes in their stories (probably numbering up to 100 by now) there is no reason to believe Tracy Martin or Brandi Green. In fact the whole story about TM purchasing sweets for Chad is nothing more than a construct to cover up the real reason for that trip to the 7-11.
Then of course what we have is the fact that it was not ICED TEA that was purchased but it was WATERMELON JUICE COCKTAIL plus purple Skittles. The only ingredient not included was the codeine. Perhaps the codeine was found on Brandi’s porch?
On top of that we do know that TM used Purple Drank and when mixed with Weed, that could very well explain the aggression.
So, no we have not relied upon the Zimmerman story, what we have done is look at as much other evidence as we could find… and we have found a lot that points to TM being a paranoid aggressor on the night that he died…. due to his own set of behaviours.
“Contrary to what Crump or Corey have stated, it would not have even mattered if GZ had “profile” TM and followed him after being told not to as Crump and Corey claim.”
This part of the fairy tale is necessary to satisfy the “no legitimate purpose” element of the crime of stalking under 784.048 to posture GZ as engaged in unlawful activity at the time the fight began, which in turn is necessary to (1) defeat GZ’s self-defense claim (2) justify TM’s assault on GZ and (3) meet the “depraved mind” element of the 2nd degree murder charge.
You can understand this by studying the probable cause affidavit, 784.048, and the BDLR interview of Dee Dee. This was PLANNED IN ADVANCE of the BDLR “investigative” interview of Dee Dee. The “investigative” interview WAS SCRIPTED TO SUPPORT A PRE-PLANNED CHARGE.
Very impressive post, James. We need to copy it and file it somewhere for use in response to the next troll – perhaps incorporating some of somuchtolearn’s graceful flourishes (above) before and after you hit them with the sledgehammer, i.e., “I understand your comments and will hold them in to consideration for future thought… We are all sorry that the lives of two families have been destroyed. Thank you for voicing your opinions, and I will respectfully have to disagree with many of your thoughts as you do mine. Thank you for your time.”
Thank you, thank you very much. Now please pass the trash can down to the next dupe we need money for the discombobolation fee. Race Pimps don’t work for Peanuts you know.
Not demonized – only seeking the truth. It is his family and friends that are screaming “he’s not good enough”. They told lies to paint an untrue portrait of Trayvon Martin and further lied to paint an untrue portrait of Zimmerman.
No…demonized…seeking the truth would require no name calling of the dead kid, no bringing up or exaggerating past events, no making up implausible scenarios to make matters seem worse…none of that is required to seek the truth. The truth only requires the facts of the case itself…not the trumped up bullshit spit by the greatest enemies of black America (Sharpton et al) or the agenda ridden MSM. Just the case info that we do know.
What we know…Trayvon at the time, was on a direct path back towards Brandy Greens townhome…so it is safe to assume that he was walking home from 7/11.
George Zimmerman was heading to Target for some household items.
Zimmerman spotted Trayvon and began suspecting him, to me that’s his right, no harm here…
Trayvon notices Zimmerman eyeing him (not sure if he ever followed Trayvon in a moving vehicle, I’ve heard he had but much less than I would need to assume he actually did)
He walks, on route to where he is staying, passed Zimmerman’s vehicle…looking inside…he runs away because he feels this man looks crazy and creepy (possible…even likely as Zimmerman also reported he began running as soon as he passed the vehicle).
Zimmerman immediately jumps out of his vehicle and high tails it in the direction of Martin.
Martin makes a right at the T, and presumably hides (as if he continued running Zimmerman would’ve seen him…he also could’ve cut right or left at one of the cut throughs, this information is unknown.)
The dispatcher realizes Zimmerman is running after Martin and tells him they don’t need him to do that…reluctantly Zimmemran seems to agree…they talk for a bit, They hang up.
That is the extent of our knowledge leading up to the encounter (discounting Trayvon’s friend’s statements which detail Martin hiding mostly)
Witnesses hear arguing, see fighting, see struggling…hear cries for help…then, mid cry…a single gunshot is heard…the cry stops prematurely, and Martin lay dead…
Zimmerman is seen with a VERY slightly bloody face and two small lacerations on the back of his head…not a lot of bleeding though suggesting not a lot of trauma (the blood didn’t even trickle to his collar. suggesting a short battle followed by a lot of struggling which had been said to be for the gun by a few people (in Robert Zimmerman Jr’s story Trayvon never knew about the gun until the gunshot)
He claims self defense.
The fight ended 30 or so yrds from his truck, and 70 or so yrds from Martin’s place of stay.
That is literally all that we know…discounting DeeDee’s statements which indicate that Zimmerman at some point tried to detain Martin, and Martin struck him.
Or Robert Zimmerman Sr’s statements which indicate that after a terse exchange of words, George suddenly reached for his phone either inadvertently revealing his gun, or suggesting that he was reaching for one, and Martin struck him.
The big questions are, how did these 2, both of whom had AMPLE time to get to safety meet again after losing sight of each other?
The only version of events (again, discounting DeeDee) that we have are George Zimmerman’s….the man who has the most to lose and the most to gain by being dishonest.
And it is is his words you take as gospel.
That doesn’t bother you?
Hate the media, all you want, hate Corey all you want, or Crump, or the race-baiters, etc. They are all bad, even to me, and i have a completely different opinion of the case than y’all.
I can understand if you were all cursing out those who wish to lynch Zimmerman and are beating up random white people because they are ignorant hood rats…and wishing for all the evidence to come out before coming up with a personal opinion…but to not only deem Zimmerman 100% innocent but to concoct a story about the dead kid that makes him out to be the biggest baddest bad guy in history makes no sense to me.
All of a sudden a black and mild is DEFINITELY for drug use…lean? well that is now a stimulant and psychotic as opposed to the depressant it actually is. Marijuana? REEFER MADNESS!!! 1.5mg/L of THC? high as a kite.
You are literally molding reality for your own desires. You are hating Trayvon, whom you never knew, and never will, because of actions outside of his control. He was just 17…and yes, I’m aware that that isn’t a little baby like the media portrayed, but any of you who were once 17 a decade ago or more can understand how young that really is. How stupid one can be…etc.
It makes no sense to me why Trayvon must be the devil, must be dehumanized in order for you to justify Zimmerman.
that piece of sewage who was killed is just that… a piece of sewage… he was a thug. He was committing a felony at the point that he was shot.
He was not a kid. He was very close to being an adult….
He was a drugged up thug..
40 minutes to travel 0.7 miles, suggests that he wasn’t directly traveling from 7-11 to Brandy’s home.
“DeeDee” claims that he had planned to run from behind Zimmerman;s truck. If you work out where Martin began running, it would be right when Martin would have reached the darkened sidewalk area. “DeeDee” says that he ran until he was tired and had lost Zimmerman and was “right by” where he was staying.
“DeeDee” said he was “right by his Da[d]‘s house”, and BDLR interrupted and said “you mean when he said “he was right by his ass” that he meant the man [Zimmerman] was right behind him [Martin]. “DeeDee” instantly corrected him.
Zimmerman did not immediately jump out of his vehicle and high tail it after Martin. Listen to the recording of Zimmerman’s call. 11 seconds from the time that Martin started running, until Zimmerman started moving. Zimmerman had shorter legs, boots, was holding a flashlight and talking on the phone. Martin had longer legs, sneakers, and had a pocket for his phone and was using headphones.
Martin had a 100 feet lead, plus a 11 second head start. By the time Zimmerman gets to the T, at a slowing pace in response to the dispatcher’s suggestion, Martin could have been home (assuming he can run 150 yards in 30 seconds). He could have also hid, or cut through between buildings.
The altercation began about 65 yards from Zimmerman’s truck, 120 yards from Brandy Green’s. Martin had to come back to get there.
Sorry, but the character of the Victim is admissible evidence.
Okay, Seriously; we do need to be careful to not reach conclusions without evidence.
The video doesn’t prove that TM had the three stooges buy him the stogie or perhaps trade the stogie for Pot. The Video doesn’t prove that TM used the wrapper for the stogie to smoke marijuana. However; because this video has been analyzed on the Treehouse and brought to the attention of Omara, (Sundance doesn’t call him to bring stuff to his attention, but I do) Omara has no doubt had detectives interview the 7-11 clerk, check the transaction records to see who used their debit card to ID the three stooges, then interviewed the three stooges. O’Mara would be negligent if he hasn’t used bank transaction records from that card plus interviews and retrieval of surveillance video records to see if the three stooges bought codeine based cough syrup at other businesses? How much you bet that O’Mara has also forced the police to check bonafide TMobile call records for TM’s phone? How much you bet TM was talking to the Three Stooges that night as well as Double Dee Dee to arrange a drug deal? How much you bet that three stooges and the clerk are singing like birdies?
I don’t have evidence to prove these speculations, but they are reasonable speculations that can ‘ve confirmed by people with the resources and authority to interrogate people. The Sanford police will be setting themselves up for a massive law suit if they don’t cooperate with Omara’s requests to follow up these leads on exculpatory evidence.
The only thing that saddens me now is that I will not have an opportunity to conduct an experiment to disprove Crump’s assertion that TM wasn’t committing a potentially deadly force assault against Zimerman that warranted the shooting by using Crump’s head as a test subject. However; if Crump incites riots in retaliation for a Zimerman acquittal, I just might get that opportunity anyway.
Never bet against a man named James. Just ask Union Major Johnson.
Well at least Obamabelle will be glad. Mr. Crump will likely be sweating bullets until the 29th. I just hope Mr.Z gets sprung sooner than that.
Oh I would say that Ms Belle will also make a very good subject for the experiment.
I thoroughly enjoyed this post James…I hope you get the opportunity for your experiment as well.
“How much you bet that O’Mara has also forced the police to check bonafide TMobile call records for TM’s phone?”
How much you bet that is why Tracy/Crump didn’t give up the the PIN ?
I hope Wolfie nails em all.
I would suspect that Omara can go straight to the source and get them from TMobile. I remember there was a longer version of phone records. When I did a search to find an image of them, I couldn’t find them. I wondered if it would show local calls being made by Trayvon. But, after not having an image easily come up, I wondered why the phone records that were released by Tracy were not so easily found.
what would that prove?
“yes we bought him a black and mild cigarillo”
Yep…guess he was a worthless thug who deserved to die at 17…he smoked black and milds.
Seriously? Really? What planet are you on?
Traydemark was committing a felony at the time when he died. End of story.
*according to Zimmerman
who must be a god or something due to his lack of fallibility to you lot.
Dude, every scrap of evidence supports Zimmerman. There’s nothing to contradict him. By any stretch of logic, he told us what happened.
You simply refuse to believe him.
Because his story makes no sense. The ONLY scrap of evidence there is that he was indeed hit…that’s it. He was hit.
Why? Because Trayvon who previously run from him and by all evidence had zero idea Zimmerman even left the car decided to go look for a man who he last saw in a car some 10-20 yards away while unarmed?
i agree he was hit by who i dont know their is not one shred of evidence saying TM did the hitting – If Tm had hit him then his hands and clothes should have traces of ZM blood on them …
they did… you lose
guess what you lose. There were marks on the little piece garbage’s hands.
and why would a 6ft person run from someone who is shorter? In fact why, when GZ was in the car did TM run?
He was a very short distance from Brandi Green’s apartment. He apparently reached the apartment. So why did he not go inside? This is the 6 million dollar question. Why did TM not go inside the apartment? Why did be back track and then attack GZ?
earth to Martian; what do you not understand about the fact that punching someone in the face is a felony? It is called grievous bodily harm in anyone’s language.
Traydemark was committing a felony at the time that he died. End of story. The evidence of the felony is very clear… broken nose, back injuries, concussion, contusions on back of head, as well as split skin on back of head….. that is grievous bodily harm.
They are hiring Human Shields down at MSNBC.
The moment he attacked Zimmerman, yes, he did become a “worthless thug who deserved to die”. Age doesn’t enter into it.
ding ding ding… I agree.
oh James, please get to experiment on Crump’s head. Whilst you are at it, you might like to experiment with 2J’s and Sharptongue, after all, it is because of Sharptongue and his stirring during the Crown Heights riots that an Australian Jew lost his life on being stabbed by someone in the mob!!
yeah sure thing little thuggie was smoking a cigar… NOT!!!!
why not…people buy black and milds to smoke them…you saw him possibly being bought a black and mild…so how do you jump to smoking weed when it is also and even more likely that he wanted a black and mild?
Oh yea, it makes him look worse to you and anything to demonize a corpse.
Are you a paid shill or do you do this for entertainment?
He sounds like he is a salesman for Black and Milds.
Cigarette smoking among the younger generation is down, pot smoking among that group is way up. How many young people have you ever known to smoke cigars? that were not altered in any way. I don’t believe that I have ever seen a teenager smoking a cigar, as it came off the shelf at the store. I don’t remember even seeing any pictures with a youngin’ smoking a cigar. Even if TM wanted to buy a Black and Mild to smoke as is, he was underage.
Smoking Black and Milds is a pretty common thing…using them for marijuana conception is not a pretty common thing. And they are cigarillos, not cigars…had the three stooges purchased dutches/phiilies or blunt wrappers THEN I’d argue that marijuana consumption was the main goal (would still have to prove they bought it for him…but that’d be relatively easy)…but black and milds puts “smoking black and milds” high into the probably category.
I just google black and mild blunt and got 266,000 results, many videos and photos of marijuana. Cannabis.com alone yielded 117 results.
Using Dutch phillies is so ten years ago and 7-11 does not sell empty blunt wrappers.
using dutches, phillies is so common…beyond common…why are you fully discounting the likelihood that he did indeed smoke a black and mild?
Seriously? I don’t often comment here-partly because I have spent a LOT of time checking twitter for various things. I have spent a lot of time checking and tracking down the people that were closest to Trayvon. The very closest people I could find tell of how he Smoked pot(in blunt) form with them, drank lean with them and had sex with various girls in their places of residence, to include one of his brothers and one of his cousins. I am a natural skeptic and until I was able to verify the connections in my own mind to my satisfaction I did not believe the connections I was making myself. I found them and cross verified them myself. I have been here at the treehouse for a while and I trust their take on the “questionable” things you mention because I know they do the same. The black and mild you are hung up on WAS used as a “Blunt” I have no doubt of this for the reasons I stated above, and though I know you won’t you would do well to keep in mind that the people here research for long hours before they make any statements. If you care to do a little research your self go to twitter and enter Trays Big Bruh. It will take you a long while but go slowly all the way back to feb 26th, opening the conversations and videos and you will see what I discovered. Take the many links to those he tweets to, as I did, otherwise you may just want to put up or shut up liuke the rest of us do.
I guess entertainment…and just because I know that black and milds are rarely used for marijuana and are mostly used to smoke doesn’t mean anything.
Sorry I didn’t deduce he was selling crack to school kids after molesting old ladies like you lot would seemingly approve of.
DumbRyte – “Yeoo happy birthday ! but pik up the fone or hmu we got business to talk!”
Slimm – “NO PHON”
DumbRyte — “damn were u at a nigga need a plant.”
and what does that have to do with 2/26/2012?
Yo. Check it.
What are you talking about?!
trying a little too hard to be convincing on that point… however your meme of the day is an utter failure…..
Could be RJ or one the Scheme Team.
it is quite simple. He was known to be a supplier of weed. We have seen his facebook page which proves he was a dealer.
He was serving a 10 day suspension from school because of his possession of a baggie and equipment necessary for smoking weed…
Then there is the picture from his cousin which showed that he had access to weed within the 24 hour period before he died….
“Team Freedom consisting of George Zimmerman, his family and representatives, are well aware of ‘Curly’ and the 3 stooges.”
How do we know this? Have you sent them this info and they’ve responded, or is there some other reason to be sure they know about this? Or is it just because Nejame now knows, and presumably he’ll pass it along?
(Oh, and don’t sell yourself short. Included as an honorary member of “Team Freedom” should be this here blog!)
I don’t send “information” to anyone. But, I do accept all correspondance
Just sayin’ 
Heh! Have I mentioned that I’m REALLY glad I happened across your little tree thingy?
Heh! Me too, Jello333. But I have to ask myself, once GZ is freed, what is Sundance going to do for an encore?
I think I’ve become addicted to this site…
I suspect Al and Jesse will keep SD busy. Let’s hope Crumpy is disbarred and sitting in jail.
I do send information to O’Mara. That is why he is well aware of you. I also sent him info on a post purporting to vevfrom Trayvon Martin expressing his hostility towards Zimerman because the neighborhood watch had calked the police on him when he was breaking into Brandy Green’s apartment and an intention to do him harm. Factor in the possibility that Brandy Green had not allowed him to be a guest at her townhouse and that TM was then guilty of criminal tresspassing when GZ first observed him and this case truly implodes.
Obviously Corey and Crump already have this or we would not be talking about it. Maybe the Fat Lady is crying. Awwww.
I would prefer initial notice given at the beginning of a televised hearing scheduled on a different matter. Judge Lester would have to take it up because it is “serious.”
It has to be released to the public it is in Discovery. Defense has to give it to Corey. Discovery is due now. So Corey and Crump have it all. Holy Mackerel Dere Kingfish. This means Sharpton and the rest all know by now. Oh to be a Fly on the wall. Crumps name will be Mud and the Pimps will throw him under the Bus. Damn Obama is going to need a Magic Bus to hold all the Brothers under it. I can see it now. The blame game will be the greatest show on Earth.
State may drop charges to save face if it is real bad for them. Although saving that face is not a good idea.
How would they explain dropping the charges? Tarnish St. Skittles? Perhaps call in Ryan Julison for assistance in “crafting a story for the media” ?
Will there be a discount on St. Skittles logo apparel? What will become of the eight pending trademark applications?
The blame game. Who will they blame it all on? Someone has to be set up to pin it on. I don’t see how Bush can be blamed but they will try. Most likely it will become Taboo like Obamas eligibility deficit. The only way they can go is with a media blackout and a scapegoat.
#winning
Woah woah woah, please give info on this post.
hello everyone, I am new here, would someone please tell me how to log off, I don’t see that, ty in advance–I just know it is right in front of my face lol
Since you didn’t “log on” to the Treehouse, you have no worries about “logging off.” Just click on another site, and like magic, you are no longer on the site.
Swans are so…precarious!
what can ya say to that!!
click the x in the corner and then it is bye bye swannie
Ok, I feel a little weird if my videos are being watched by NeJame and O’Mara, team effort though, team effort.
Diwataman promoted to Vice-President of Audo-Visual Evidence Presentations
…./SD
I’m wondering if the 3 stooges will be doing the talk show circuit, maybe make a movie.
Move over jersey shore!!
You should consider it a compliment Diwataman
You can guarantee they are watching them.
Oh heck, I just came across that in my photobucket and was about to set it as my avatar. You deserve it more! Wear it with PRIDE!
Congratulations Diwataman; this calls for a partyyyyy!!
Three Cheers and a Salute! Way to go!
hilarious video response
to this moronic video by one of Diwata’s detractors
The a$$ who made this video about trayvon’s pictures was actually angry at me. First this idiot called me a racist and then started questioning my Jewishness. Apparently, this guy doesn’t like Jews very much. First he makes a comment condemning antisemitism and then he makes an antisemitic comment and says he’s going to start his own race. His mouth is really hate-filled and so it’s best to stay away from him because he’s just looking to play games with people on the net over this case as well as express his antisemitic self.
He’s been all over Diwataman and anyone else who doesn’t agree that Zimmerman is a stalking, racist, murderer of little children, who apparently when scared, decide to beat the crap out of someone instead of call 911 from their cellphone.
The guy who made this video should be ignored. He’s just looking for attention.
The response to this idiot should be the same I gave below-if these pictures are not of Trayvon why then do various members of his family have them on their social media one being Stephen Martin who is known on twitter at this time as Trays Big Bruh. He even talks about the requested meeting by MOM way before it was known by any of us on his twitter account. He has these same pics and more on his account. ALL I need to know LOL.
The price to be paid for appeasement: The city of Sanford was tripping over itself to capitulate to the Scheme Team. And there’s a price to be paid for that – when implied violence is the result of not conceding to their outrageous, race-based demands. I know I won’t be spending any money in Sanford, FL any time soon, just on principle.
http://tinyurl.com/75qjmuy
I hope Bonaparte gets his due. I have felt all along he is in on the scheme.
Well yeah, but at least their PD was right all along – there was no evidence to charge GZ with a crime, and even tho he’d ruffled a few feathers in the department a year or so ago, the local cops didn’t even “discover” any evidence against him. If the PD had just been left to their own devices instead of having the Scheme Team fanning the flames of racial hatred and turning local politicians on the PD like a pack of weasels, justice would’ve been done months ago.
Yes, but the “good people” of Sanford did not stand together against the mob and the demands for a public lynching – watch the videos of the Sanford meetings. They stood silent while the threats of violence, riots, mayhem were made. None of them demanding law and order, repudiating the calls for violence and calling out the black community “leaders” or supported the PD or the Chief until the political winds had shifted. And now they are reaping the rewards of their silence. Let that be its own lesson.
“And now they are reaping the rewards of their silence. Let that be its own lesson.”
You said it, my friend! Sometimes we just have to learn the hard way.
Even if Curly and the three stooges are found, and the 7-11 theories discussed on this site are true…..I have serious doubts they would testify to anything.
They would need to stand up against the full weight of the racial grievance industry….for what….the truth?
Seems like wishful thinking. Still love this blog though. You guys aren’t backing down from the race hustlers.
Testify? Testify? Why would they need to “Testify”?
Sundance – is that Crump. He is a failed Lawyer, and now a failed basketball player as well?
Crump? c’mon… you know better than that.
Lololololol !!
Just thought clip was of some fat guy trying to make the shot & falling flat on face… Kinda like case against GZ
Good one SD
Hey that guy had a mat. Parks and Crump do not.
Howie, read SD note above, the fat guy is
Parks!! lol
SD where did you find this clip?
me thinks should get archived under funniest videos of lawyers, nice tidbit for resume & so telling of what to expect of services
Oh No! I get it.
That worries me, too. For two reasons: First, I’d hate to see George lose some testimony that would strengthen his case. But second, I’d hate to see those three guys be put in the same situation George and his family/friends now are. Yeah, yeah, I know they were likely buying B&Ms so they could smoke some weed, but other than that, they could be perfectly normal guys. I’m not saying DON’T try to find them for that reason. I’m just saying that even though it might be necessary, it’s a shame it might bring about even more of the EVIL “Justice for Trayvon” attacks. (If Holder wasn’t such a scumbag, there would at least be major CONSEQUENCES for those attacks… but I’m not holding my breath.)
The Three Stooges will sing like birds because the true records for TM’s phone will establish communication with them prior to the 7-11 encounter and account records will reveal that the three stooges bought codeine based cough syrup earlier?
Good point. Never thought of it that angle that there might be phone records proving a meeting, combine that with the purchases made at 7-11…and you have an interesting combination..
However, I still highly doubt they would say anything in court. There are very few people with the backbone to stand up to the racial grievance industry.
I don’t know who John is, but he deserves a medal for standing by his testimony. Let’s hope there is no retribution against him.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)
Tom, I was just about to post that same quote
a good possibility
an issue about money I wanted to bring up, when TM is at the 7-11, when he is paying, he seems to have very little money, from what I recall, and I may be wrong, but it seemed TM did have, what I thought at the time of death, was a larger sum
does anyone remember the exact amount?
He had at the time of death $40+. It appeared when he was paying that he was stoned. The wobble, the difficulty in getting his money, looking like he didn’t want to take something out out of his pocket that should not come out. Just watch the video again.
P3P3P3, I believe the amount of money found in his pockets was in the region of $40 and change. But I think you may be assuming that he seemed to have very little money at the 7-11 b/c he was digging around in his pockets to find cash, whereas (a) it’s gotta be hard to get money out of pockets when your waistline is somewhere around your knees, and (b) as someone else pointed out on another thread, he probably had to be very careful that whatever he brought out of his pockets was only money and not anything illegal. OTOH, as has also been pointed out elsewhere, he might have had more money later b/c he’d just collected $40 for, er, merchandise he was selling.
Yep, that’s the point I made awhile back just before the “3 stooges” video came out. Like you, I don’t think Trayvon had the $40 (that the police report says he had when he died) when he was buying his Skittles and MW juice. Which means he got it after leaving the store. I think he sold something, probably to those 3 guys. And if so, the prints of one of them should be on the bills (presumably two 20′s). But of course if one of them used a debit card, that could be easier than matching prints. Easier still would be just asking the clerk their names (I think he knows them).
I thought the same, at the counter it appeared he was fishing for money, then boom he has $40 on him when he dies.
They were the Orlando connection and Tradevon was the middleman for the Miami end? Hmmm. I can’t wait to find out.
once their statements are obtained there will not be a need for testimony because there will not be a trial.
No need to log off. When you feel like dropping in, you just come by and get yourself a big old rock by the campfire. When it’s time to go, you just, well, go. But don’t forget to come back!
Ok ty, I just didn’t want people to think I was here and possibly ignoring their posts to me.
Reply to me, and look at the bottom of the text square. It’s right there
(Log Out/Change)
ok trying that
Just curious…what do you think it means if they did in fact buy Trayvon a Black&Mild cigarillo?
How does a black and mild which he likely would have smoked on the walk translate instantly into drug usage?
IT can mean it was used to hollow out and make a blunt. The trouble of smoking anything in the rain(blunt or just a cigar) with a hoodie up would be aggravating. For arguments sake thats maybe why he was acting so oddly around peoples houses. But when ALL the vidence (circumstancial or not) is taken into consideration, anything smokin in the rain better have been worth the trouble. Especiazlly when theres a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that he had an extensive history history of drug use.
dang it, sorry for the misspelling of Especially and the repreat of history
it can and all evidence shows considering the negligible amount of THC in his system that he smoked a black and mild…period.
Focus on something else….the only way this can be anything is if the 3 stooges happened to smoke weed with him…
but to assume he MUST’VE smoked…because of a black and mild…is ridiculous.
Non-zero THC in the blood is not “negligible”.
yes it is…very negligible. just like a .009 BAL is negligible if you are in an accident…YES you could’ve drank a liter a minute ago and it wouldn’t show in your blood, but to deduce that you crashed because of the alcohol would be silly and laughed out of any court.
When I first read the article I read this line as: “the tearful eyes of a prosecution about to be covered in egg faced excrement.”
I couldn’t believe SD wrote that, so I had to read it again. This time I read it correctly as: “the tearful eyes of a prosecution about to be covered in egg faced embarrassment.”
I guess It shows that I think that Corey, Crump, et al. are up to their eyeballs in sh*tt!
Either “egg faced excrement” is some kind of a truly hilarious adventure in the English language, or I’m just over-tired. LOL. Yer funny.
Great Job sundance… You came thru once again… Again. Great job..
CBC: Zimmerman acquittal could spark race riots
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/cbc-zimmerman-acquittal-could-spark-race-riots/592491
http://prospect.org/article/walking-while-black
The CBC and the president needs to let their constituency who they riled up know this is not a case of “walking while black”. Crump, Parks and Jackson better start helping….after all Curly et al apparently are…
Dershowitz stated that any riots resulting from this case would be due to the prosecution ‘raising expectations’ by over-charging Zimmerman using an Affidavit insufficient to support those charges.
I decided to leave a little comment on that site.
What’s the two word retort they use? Oh yeah…
BRING IT
IS THAT A THREAT??
Let it happen. I was in the National Guard, both PA, and DC, as well as the Army Reserve over six years. In fact i was “called up” for the 1963 “March on Washington” – with MLK giving a speech.
So, if a certain group of “spoiled people” want to burn down anything – that is part of the responsibility of the “Guard”. Sleep well tonight – your “Guard” is awake!
++++
Race riots could ensue if George Zimmerman — the shooter in the Trayvon Martin case — is found not guilty of second-degree murder by a Florida jury, the Congressional Black Caucus’ executive director allowed yesterday.
[ Perhaps because is is NOT GUILTY - do you ever think of that?? ]
“I think a ‘not guilty’ verdict is extremely problematic in 2012,” said Angela Rye, the Executive Director and General Counsel for the Congressional Black Caucus.
[ Problematic for truth and justice - I don't think so. ]
She said, “I don’t know,” when asked what would happen in the event of an acquittal. “I know that folks have talked about race riots — I don’t know that. I think that we live in a day and age where people are educated enough not to do that.
[ Good! ]
I know that his mother and his father have asked for peace, peaceful solutions, not repaying evil for evil, so I’m not sure. I think it would set us back . . . there’s no value to racial violence or any other kind of violence.”
[ Even Martin Luther King would recognize that if you don't like justice - you should not burn down your neighborhood, nor rob, steal and kill. ]
Just happened upon this on another one of my favorite blogs–gives a bit more insight on Ms Rye:
iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=137275
Thank you to the National Guard. However; if Crump and Obama incite Obama’s constituents into rioting to get the Poverty Pump in Chief reelected, the National Guard is going to be the least of their worries. Private citizens will be going primeval on their asses.
A certain contingent of blacks *always* threaten to riot if things don’t go the way they think they should. Yes, it’s a threat, and judicial intimidation, which *should* be a felony. It could also be considered jury and/or witness intimidation, if it happens after the trial begins, which I *know* is a felony…been on the receiving end of that one…as the intimidated, not the one intimidating.
I probably should read more before I post…..
I think average law abiding citizens are sick unto death of the perpetual grievance industry and their minions. Lock and load will be the order of the day. There will be chaos that not even the O and Holder can contain. I could be wrong.
Yup.,
The Guard, the Army, Navy Air Force and Marines, Coast guard will obey any orders considered lawful from the POTUS or else. If Ordered to suppress white and Hispanics and others from being able to fight back against black aggression which would be ignored or changed narrative into white on black violence would the military obey?
What if POTUS simply ordered everyone in authority to stand down and stand by as the L.A.P.D. did during the Rodney king riots. Already no charges are brought against voter intimidation by the A. G. holder from Black Panthers with no protest from anyone. It may be the plan to beat down whitey for retribution over slavery 150 years ago.
It may be somebody coerces or convinces Zimmerman to plead guilty or take a plea deal to save Obama, Democrats and others from losing elections, losing power (Zim Is A Democrat) or violence, take a hit for the team and peace and all that jazz.
Dersh interview from this morning. Have not listened yet:
http://www.wjct.org/mp3/weekly/fccm.mp3
EVERYBODY SHOULD LISTEN
Dershowitz contends that Corey is leaning on defense attorneys to support her vs. Dershowitz.
I listened. Jail Corey!
Listen to the second caller sticking up for Corey… It sounds just like Angela Corey.. Goes by name of Sue.
I thought the exact same thing, seriously.
This is a GREAT interview. They allowed people to call in and ask him questions. I wish we would have know about it in advance so a Treeper could have called in.
Suffice it to say, he CANNOT STAND Angela Corey. He challenged her to a debate once they let George go.
Puddy is loading this up with a u-tube version and we will post along with a “challenge” that Dershowitz has out for her to debate him….
I wonder if this is why the Crumpster did not show on the Geraldo Show?
They need to make sure the Crumpster doesn’t have duplicate passports.
Algonquin J. Calhoun may be called in to defend Crumps and Parks. If they do not escape to Bimini.
If all this works out they will get their Payday…but they will be the ones Paying…LOLOLOLOL!
Thanx a lot for that interview! I laughed like hell when that first caller called AD a far right wing conservative!
The best part was when he said his is now a FL resident! He’ll be in Corey’s face until she gets unelected!
Again GREAT FIND!
Great night, indeed! First *this* story and then the interview. Going to bed with a BIG smile on my face tonight! THANK YOU!
did I read that correctly? That someone called AD a far right wing conservative? ROFL…. we wish!!
The thing I like about AD is that he goes for the truth. Perhaps that is why he took the Klaus Von Bulow case – yet another person who was being railroaded?
Thanks Dizzy – Dershowitz is now even STRONGER on the un-ethical behavior of Corey. Even people in Corey’s office know she in un-ethical. Further, Dershowitz CONFIRMS that Corey sent THREATS TO OTHER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS. ( I hope they saved those letters). I seems that FL Bar – can do nothing to an elected official. But I would bet that there can be a collection of those un-ethical OFFICIAL letters that she sent out. THAT FULLY CONFIRMS THAT SHE CAN BE CHARGED WITH “DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE TO JUSTICE FOR GZ. Corey’s big mistake was to “bad mouth” Dershowitz. Her arrogance exceeds all bounds – and Dershowitz knows it – and eventually the general public. Corey will have a very difficult time “selling” this to a judge who if forced to review it – indeed.
“Further, Dershowitz CONFIRMS that Corey sent THREATS TO OTHER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS.”
I would think such threats would also be reported to Bondi and the governor. What is the process of removing her?
The gov. appointed her by executive order, he can cancel the executive order, and unappoint her, and appoint someone else. From the EO appointing another state atty. it seems that he is preparing for her to commit political/legal suicide. With going after Dershowitz, she already hung her own noose up. He may expect she will crawl up there and put her own head through the loop. Corey, by her actions, can do great damage to Scott’s political career. I don’t think he will allow that to happen.
I believe the Judge can also have her removed from the case.
Bondi will stick up for her. She gushed about how great Corey was a few days after she was appointed. Bondi said that she herself wouldn’t be where she is without Corey’s help. Corey was one of the first state attorney’s to endorse and work for Scott in his campaign. She was a part of his transition team.
A day or two I began to wonder if Scott nominated her not because of her ability but because there was no one else he wanted to volunteer for the political suicide this would be. I posted a link to his background of running corporations, which seems to mean he knows how to play the political game better than she does.
yes she sent out threats over the Cristian Fernandez case. Corey is off her rocker in my opinion. She is totally unprofessional.
I did a You Tube clip of interview.. before taking calls.
Alan Dershowitz on Angela Corey – Radio Interview (6-11-12)
I have a question. I’m not sure if it’s been answered before. If he was smoking pot on his walk home would it show up in his blood or urine that quickly? All the info I found was inconclusive and only dealt with people who were worried about failing a drug test. Thanks to anyone who can answer!
I dont think that answers my question. I saw that in the document dump, but im not sure about the meaning. Couldn’t that be old? There have been varying estimates for how long it stays in your system, some estimates are days long. What I read states that THC levels can get that low and hour after smoking and stay in the 1-2 ng level for up to 9 days. So doesn’t that mean that all the drug test indicates is that he smoked at some time between an hour ago and nine days ago?
http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drugtestguide/drugtestdetection.html#fn07
Why do you think they call it dope?
Didn’t anyone ever wonder how they knew he went to 7-11. Seems unlikely he kept the receipt. SPD would have acted in a reasonable amount of time to retrieve the security tapes. I always wondered why Brandi said he was on the porch. The screaming from Team Skittles was just a VERY LOUD BANGING GONG drowning out reason and feeding on the distrust of authority by the masses.
The whole thing is sickening.
The 7-11 bag with TM’s blood on it may have been a clue.
I wondered the samething. Because IMHO, if Chad had told them when they came home that night *wink *wink, then Chad should also have known about all the commotion goin on there. Also, I have wondered if PD went looking for witnesses that night (brain dead if they did or didnt at moment) IF this happened so close to Brandi home, then seems like possible they knocked on her door.
I wonder IF Chad was home, IF he called Tracy and his mother. I still wonder about Chad.
You are correct to be curious of “Chad”. He is the unknown entity in this, and I doubt seriously that Brandy wants him interviewed. Brandy has dropped out of sight which is odd considering she was in an intimate relationship with Tracy Martin for two+ years.
Something about the Brandy and Chad aspect to this entire false narrative is wierd. Really weird. Given the odd nature of these folks to be involved in various on again/off again relationships and emotional relationships whilst still married to others, one can surmise that enough money can fill the void of absent love/sex/emotional intimacy.
The degree of Chad’s participation is probably directly connected to the size of the auto-bank deposits from the Scheme Team’s trash can collection tour. I dunno.
The entire construct of the “chad” aspect to the narrative does not make one lick of sense, and only the insufferable Craig Rivera was close enough to interview…. and that interview was so softball that Nerf is granite by comparison.
EXACTLY!!! And WHY haven’t the “justice for Traypunk” screamers wondered about this? It’s the first thing that AKMimi and I noticed in this case…….the fact that Chad, the sweet “little brother”, who was at home patiently waiting for his big bubba to bring home those skittles, didn’t bother to mention it to mama and Traydad when they “got home” that Trayvon left and didn’t come back. Of course, we know that little bro Chad probably fell asleep watching Veggie Tales and just didn’t notice……but I sure noticed!!!
….little bro Chad probably fell asleep watching Veggie Tales and just didn’t notice….
OK, That Right Thar’ is damned funny, I don’t care who y’are
Maybe somebody left some codeine on the porch that mad him sleepy.
oh my, that is a real thought….
Hey Omar, Maybe it was like this. Braindi wanted nothing to do with TM. She REFUSED TO GIVE TM THE KEY. When TM showed up, perhaps Chad said, “na..na…na…na”. After all, how did Braindi expect TM to get into her Condo?? Break in? That would be illegal. Saint Trayvon would never do that!!
EXACTLY!! He would NEVER do that…..and we also KNOW that Traydad was a GREAT and responsible dad who just wanted some one-on-one time. We’re just not sure WHO he wanted that one-on-one time with. Pretty sure it wasn’t Trayvon. BUT, regardless….Traydmark had NO key to the apt. Chad was either NOT home, knew NOTHING of Traydmark’s being in Sanford, refused to let TM into the apt, or legitimately is oblivious to the world around him. There is NO WAY that Chad, if the lil darling were home, did NOT notice gunshot, flashing lights, door knocking, and commotion. Of course, there IS always the Veggie Tales marathon theory……and we all know how teens just LOVE to watch some Veggie Tales….
They were prolly out setting up a deal. would not surprise me one bit.
How about this scenario? He had a key or he left the door unlocked when he left to go to 7-11. If he had enough time to drop something off on the porch, what about leaving it in the house with the door unlocked this time? It would explain why he didn’t have a key on him. It would explain why Brandi made the comment that he was sitting on the porch. If he was on the porch, there would be no need to lock the door, thus, she thought the unlocked door was from him being on the porch not from him leaving the door unlocked while he was away from the condo/complex. The one part that doesn’t fit into this narrative is why would he still have the drink. But, I think that can be explained by what has been said that it could be a possible weapon.
he was sitting on the porch when they left.
Four and a half hours later? What a perfect child…
what?
there is no proof for your statement.
Very interesting point. Were keys listed into Trayvons posseions the night he died?
No keys, No ID, and strangest of all, no contraband.
Well maybe the Stooges gave TM the Codine earlier and he had already swigged a batch. Who knows what was going down earlier in the day.
or maybe not…or, due to a COMPLETE lack of evidence…we shouldn’t even consider it.
there will be evidence when the toxicology report is released.
Do not get too cocky because we know that there is still a lot of missing information.
We want to see that toxicology report because something is being hidden.
I think that is very likely based upon the way that he was behaving and his obvious paranoia over thinking someone was watching him.
The Purple Lean plus the weed that he very likely consumed the previous day would be enough for him to have an episode of paranoia.
There are 11 phone calls on the phone bill, at most 7 could be with “DeeDee”. Chad’s father said that Chad had called some people. Maybe, Martin wasn’t supposed to go anywhere. The first call was from 5:09 to 6:30. Did Brandy serve dinner to the kids while Martin was talking to “DeeDee”? She must have had some food in the house. Or did Trayvon have to go out in a blizzard, uphill both ways (or at as least as close as you can get to it in Central Florida) to get food for his little brother.
Chad calls his Mom. Maybe Tracy calls Trayvon. By the next afternoon, Brandy knew that Martin had been “sitting on porch” and “this man shot him”, and that “he was bored” and “he had gone to the store”.
The public has to meet the “Real Trayvon Martin.” What will we all do if a teenager who skips school, defaces public property, uses drugs, carries burglary tools, fights MMA style, hits bus drivers, and attacks strangers becomes the Poster “Child” of what some want to be the New Civil Rights Movement? That will make Sybrina Fulton the Mother of the New Civil Rights Movement. If the narrative plays out via all of the misinformation supplied by the mainstream media manipulators, the Trayvon Martin story will become a “legend” for this generation. Imagine seeing something about Trayvon in all of us: drugs, violence, hopelessness, and tragedy. (See Washington Watch.mov)
Trayvon’s Mother Introduced As ‘Mother Of New Civil Rights Movement’, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWNdbcoDhPI
Thanks for post below: sybilj says: June 10, 2012 at 8:28 pm
https://twitter.com/#!/teamimpact
MPACT @teamIMPACT Today 3 YPoC’s from the #40Under40 Capitol Hill Edition taped a segment on @rolandsmartin’s ‘Washington Watch’ on @tvonetv. Will air Sunday!
2:04 PM – 30 Mar 12
Young minority Washington professional are looking for a cause for their generation. Washington Watch.mov. They think it will be Trayvon Martin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY6pqbH8XiU&feature=player_embedded
The TreeHouse is helping to get the facts out before this happens: “ ‘When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.’ So says a newspaper reporter in a famous (fictional) moment from John Ford’s 1962 film, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. On its own, the famous quote is a bit opaque. In context, the (fictional) reporter is saying this: He has come to know that a famous tale isn’t true. But he plans to keep printing it anyway.” http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/02/facts-and-legends-hooray-for-hollywood.html
Stop the “fictional” reporters! George Zimmerman cannot become the scapegoat for them. He deserves Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!
This should be a beatdown of the whole bunch. I hope if this is all true that no one is allowed to “Save Face.” After all this is the son of Obama.
IF he sold the stooges weed, where did he get the weed, hadn’t he been at Dads a place he was hardly at, for 8 days? Did he have a connection there? Probably his Dad. Trayvon had no job but had 40 bucks in his pocket?
How about all the money he spent going to the movies with his cuz. They ain’t cheap either.
he got the weed from his cuz the previous day.
Aussie,
you t touched on something that i have been contemplating for a while. I think getting some facts about what occurred on Saturday, the day before the shooting, for all parties concerned could shed some light on some questionable things.
Right. This did not start when Mr. Z spotted Trayvon and stop with the shot.
WHAT WEED???? wtf. It’s one thing to extrapolate ridiculousness from existing facts and evidence but you lot are going as far as to creating scenarios of which there is zero evidence in support of.
It’s quite interesting to study you…
Did Trayvon have weed on him? no.
Did Trayvon had an amount of weed in his system indicative of smoking any marijuana in the last 24 hours? no.
Should we assume, then, that anything regarding that night had anything to do with Marijuana? no.
End of discussion.
I accept your resignation from the field.
You obviously misunderstood my statement.
The final toxicology report will end the drug discussion, not by your command
and there is a greater than 100% chance that the weed that was on TM was dumped on the porch at Brandi Green’s house prior to TM returning to the T-intersection where he then decked GZ, knocking him to the ground, breaking his nose and then pounding GZ’s head MMA style aka felony assault.
bye bye Benny
give it up.. it seems that TM being caught with weed has you blowing a lot of smoke from where you sit down…..
The fact is that the little piece of xxxxxxxxx very likely did smoke some dope on his way home…. he had smoked when with his cousin…..
You cannot hide the facts about that thug who was committing felony assault when he was shot and killed.
Edit by admin
LOL – Jeralyn Merritt says you have nothing that can be used at trial. Nejame is stringing you along. He loves his 15 minutes of fame.
Sounds like it is unraveling pretty fast, rig for riots.
What does Nejame have to do with any of this?
Does anyone know what happened to Tara?
Is MichaelNotMike also MIA ?
Yes, he did a big post and we have not heard from him since. Tara discovered the palming of the money and then she was gone.
Kind of skeery.
I’ll see if we can track down her email addy and send her an email.
Yeah, Tara has not been around for a couple of weeks….
ADD: Sharon got her email addy and we sent her a note. Awaiting response.
Just a speculation, but is the idiotic kerfuffle over Shelly Zimerman’s testimony about the donation account that had been revealed to the court only days after the bail hearing a reaction to O’Mara following up leads that have been exposed on the Treehouse? Aside from threatening SZ as well as GZ with jail, it might be an attempt to. Deprive O’Mara of the resources to investigate. It would certainly explain Corey making that idiotic call to Harvard threatening Dershowitz. It simply doesn’t make sense for her to go full retard at a time when she seemed to have GZ by the balls. Since GZ and O’Mara are content to let GZ stay in jail so that the funds can be used for a continued investigation, it isn’t going to work.
Perhaps when this is over, the Governor will surrender Corey to me so we can use her skull as a test article to verify that GZ was being subjected to a deadly force assault. It would certainly improve her appearance.
The illustrious Governor Scott is the moron who appointed this out of control monster. He will be hearing from many about this. Along with Bondi. Corey should be jailed and Mr.Z let free.
Did Scott appoint her? I thought they were elected positions? I do have an issue with Bondi appointing her to this case though, so she will definitely hear from me. I supported her election big time in 2010. Grrr…
Me too. and Scott. What a mistake. I am sending an e-mail to complain.
Well I am not voting for them again.
Gov. Scott appointed Corey via Executive Order. I’m sure Bondi helped with selecting her.
Maybe the Governor knew this would happen all along? I have read that Angela has does have some political enemies.
oh James, sure glad that I had nothing in my mouth when I read your comment
James, the poster using the moniker of “Seriously” should make an ideal subject for your experiment.
SD,
You have no idea how this news helped me today. Today has been a mini disaster for me, and a renewed sense of HOPE works wonders!
You’re a good egg!
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg605/CajunKelly/d140eeb5.jpg
I think yer a good egg, too–finding this wondrous piece of HUE-MANATEE on a day like you’ve had.
Aw thanks Sharon.
I just ran across that one, wasn’t even sure it fit the post, but it’s sooo purrrrty! He even seems to have a Mona Lisa kinda smile goin’ on. 
He does! A little whimsy is sometimes exactly what is needed…and that thar fits the bill!
The best part is that Diawatha and the Wolverines are better investigators than the FBI, FDLE, and the rest. I love it. And Wolfinger comes out smelling like a Rose if all goes as it appears. Maybe he could prosecute Corey.
Oh I forgot to add Crump. He is still a State Attorney I think.
Crump’s NOT a state attorney, he just acts like one.
I meant Mr. Wolfinger.
Oh, that’s excellent. Keep that one handy.
I’m hoping one of you with good knowldge of legal ethics can answer this for me?
Since it was Judge Lester himself who suggested that the prosecution should consider bringing charges against Ms Zimmerman, would he then be the judge to preside over that case?
No. They would have to go the regular route, but he could sanction her for contempt if he wanted to. Now he may have to get DLR for contempt. He can do that too.
Published: 1:04 pm
Updated: 1:16 pm
Assistant State Attorney appointed in Zimmerman case
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The State of Florida has appointed a new Assistant State Attorney in the case against George Zimmerman.
Assistant State Attorney Richard W. Mantei has been appointed to handle the investigation, prosecution and representation of the State of Florida. He will join the team led by State Attorney Angela B. Corey in the case against the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
Martin died last February in Sanford after a scuffle with Zimmerman. Zimmerman pled not guilty to second-degree murder and is claiming self-defense in the case. He is currently at the Seminole County Jail.
Zimmerman’s next hearing is scheduled for June 29, 2012.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/mostpopular/story/Assistant-State-Attorney-appointed-in-Zimmerman/T-VpUYJV_UWxLNdZBjxI7g.cspx
Thanks for this…. I just caught wind of it a few hours ago…. This will be a research thread for tomorrow. Thanks again
Ohhhhhhh sibilj……… SIBILJ !!
According to Bay News9:
SEMINOLE COUNTY —
There’s a new player in the case against George Zimmerman.
Assistant state attorney Richard W. Mantei has been appointed to handle the investigation and representation of the state of Florida.
The appointment was made June 4, but is now just being released
http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/11/assistant_state_atto.html
Interesting that the media has decided to tone down the rhetoric a notch. Now Martin “died in a scuffle”….hmmm… that’s a long way from “hunted him down and shot him like a dog”, isn’t it?
Mantei is an interesting addition. He withdrew the state’s request for death penalty charges when it became obvious the state couldn’t prove premeditation. As prosecutor, he still got a conviction, but for life, not death.
With the added term of scuffle does that mean they might put an involuntary manslaughter charge on there hoping to get him on that. Since many felt that was the mistake in the Casey trial
Does this mean that BLDR is gone or demoted? If true, what a shame. He was just a charming fellow.
Maybe the Dee Dee interview was reviewed by someone with an interest in justice.
What next after Dershowitz meltdown, Corey gonna conveniently take time off
to be with her family on previous planned vacation?
Corey must be going to withdraw. Conflict of interest. Crumpster is probably under the gun at the Bar. Bondi is getting nervous. Best to get Corey out of the way if the whip comes down. Parks is going crazy and the rest of the firm is afraid they will be held liable. That would seem about right if what we hear is correct. Scott is probably in a panic.
The State of Florida appointed a new attorney to “assist” (meaning “muzzle”) Corey because the case is imploding.
The cornerstone of the charging document was the interview with Dee-Dee. The State had uncritically accepted Dee Dee’s statements because Crumpy had released the PDF files of TM’s alleged TMobile bill to authenticate that the conversations occurred. Thanks to all of the Treepers, we know that Dee-Dee wasn’t TM’s GF, she was mildly shocked but not distraught to learn that TM had been shot, and she was vacillating about which fast food joint to eat at the time that Crumpy claims she was freaking so bad that she had to go to the hospital rather than the wake. After getting a look at Double Dee Dee, I find it difficult to believe that she would pay much attention to a skinny little momma’s boy with no athletic or musical skills that might make him rich. The autopsy reveals that there was nothing remarkable about TM that might motivate a smoking hot babe like Double Dee Dee to go out with him.
My guess is that the prosecution now has true copies of the TMobile bill that confirm that the PDF files provided by Crump are false. This makes the prosecution look stupid, of course. However; by charging GZ based on an interview with a witness whose credibility that they either knew or should have known was near zero, they are guilty of criminal negligence. The problem now is not how to proceed with prosecution but how to dismiss the case without destroying to many political careers or provoking the race riots that Crump and crew have incited.
Corey is toast.
BDLR is also toast.
My guess is that Crump will be disbarred and that GZ is going to get a massive pay off from his law firm for defamation.
Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton will crawl back under their rocks
BHO and the Congressional Black caucus might salvage their careers by recanting and demonizing crump
“The State had uncritically accepted Dee Dee’s statements”
IMHO, if a full, complete, and impartial investigation is conducted, the ultimate findings will be much worse that that.
Do you think there will actually be a full, complete and impartial disclosure of the shenanigans? I don’t. If they toss this out… they will cash out quickly. The fewer people know what actually happened the better chance they have of perpetrating the same fraud again.
I don’t see a graceful exit strategy. They dismiss the charges against GZ and how do they explain that? With no explanation, there will be riots. If the 3 stooges investigation is published in detail, it blows Dee Dee’s story away. It is immediately obvious that Dee Dee isn’t the brains of the outfit. If Dee Dee is pressured and talks, the whole house of cards comes down. Matt Gutman flips: “I told you that he prodded her and that they wouldn’t let anyone else question her. Another ABC exclusive, I should get a Pulitzer for exposing this scheme!”
What can the State say? “Sorry, we’re sloppy and stupid.”
Maybe DD should be careful of her safety…..
I sure hope so. The judge seems overboard for Corey and Sharpton. I wish they would appeal him. I don’t think Mr. Z should have to sit in jail.
Is it common to add new ASAs? Could it have something to do with DLR and all his misshaps? OR his DD interview. First thing I thought of was all of you guys/gals SUPER SLEUTHING here.
Probably. A DA is not suppose to interject himself into the case. The way he interviewed the wits made him a potential wit.
He had Osteen along for cover. I think it is a common practice.
Not advisable for the da to do the interview O’Steen should have done the questioning. The DA CAN be used as witness.
They had to follow the Crump script. O’Steen would have asked normal investigative interview questions and farked things all up.
Hmmm. I was cautiously optimistic about GZ’s case being thrown out, but now it’s not looking so great. But maybe it’s a last ditch effort on the prosecution’s part?
Could any of this new speculation of dismisal be tied to possible liver toxicology reports coming in from TM? Connecting the dots?
My thoughts exactly…
OK, i’m calling it a night now, having had about 8 hours of sleep in the last 72 hours. But tonight I’ll go to sleep with a smile on my face, thanks to Sundance and all the other Treepers who have fought so hard to see justice prevail.
So goodnight to some amazing people whom I’m privileged to have met on the Net…and…I just gotta say…WOLVERINES!
Oh, good grief. Good NIGHT! Sleep well.
Can Brian Beckman have his rank restored now?
“I and my co workers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youth are victims of racist profiling, or products of their (expletive) ignorant, pathetic welfare dependent excuses for parents, but like Mrs. Corey (prosecutor Angela Corey), we speak only the truth. They are just misunderstood little church going angels and the ghetto hoodie look doesn’t have anything to do with why people wonder if they’re about to get jacked by a thug.”
http://ghostshirtpapers.blogspot.com/2012/05/trayvon-martin-and-brian-beckman.html
Does anyone know if TM was found to have the change on his person… the dollar bills he recieved back at the 7-11. THIS would allow us to determine if he gave that money to one of the boys to buy him a cigar. Has the report of what was found on TM been released yet?
From what I recall of the report they did not mention denominations, just the amount $40.15. The medical examiner found $0.10
Here is the report 183 page pdf
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
Just a little response I did to Mark NeJame
Good on ya Dman. He prolly went as far as he could. His minders at CNN are in a panic. He likes his checks from CNN. He knows.
First I like to thank you for the enlightening entertaining video and how you discovered Trayvon’s connection to the three stooges. I really enjoyed the viewing.
Now, this video feed was part of the prosecution discovery evidence, so whoever saved it has to know about the connection (trayvon and stooges). I’m betting the investigator or whoever talked to the clerk a long time ago. The clerk told him about the connection and the video is evidence of the connection.
What you ingeniously did (and dare I say brilliantly) was solve this puzzle backward without the other evidence of the clerk’s interview etc. This other stuff should be buried(i think) with the other evidence.
Maybe the prosecution doesn’t want to broadcast the fact that Trayvon bought or took drugs but its in the evidence dump.
It would be Brady material. Requiring disclosure. But you might have missed the information that there was no investigation by any state or federal agency in to this issue and was not in the discovery.
It (the whole video) came from discovery. Ask sundancer or dizzy z(i think thats her name)
Dayyyyyum, Treepers!! Y’all been busy in my absence!!
This is a fantastic thread!!! Keep up the good work and the righteous struggle!
How did TM know that GZ was even still out in the community if he went home to stash his pot? Was he so infuriated with the fact that he had to stash it that it didn’t matter to him that he could be wasting his time looking for a man that was no longer anywhere to be found?
And why did he run in the first place? If he thought GZ was a cop it is highly unlikely that he would have gone back out there to challenge a police officer. If he didn’t think GZ was a cop, then why would he have to stash his weed? What authority would a non cop have to stop and search TM? If he thought that GZ had called the cops then why not even knowing whether GZ was still there and believing that the cops are on their way would he risk going back out there to physically confront a person who had just called the police?
Finally, if he was at home, why would he bring the can of juice and candy back with him. Chad has stated that the candy was for him. Neither the candy nor the juice had been opened. He was at home according to your theory. What purpose did it serve to bring the bag of juice and candy back out to the community to look for a man that might not have even been there but who might have called the police.
I know that O’Mara and West are eminently more qualified and skilled than to advance such ludicrous theories for their client.
Your questions have merit. Unless TM already knew who GZ was.
“I know that O’Mara and West are eminently more qualified and skilled than to advance such ludicrous theories for their client.”
Da Nile much?
Did Chad state the candy was for him? I must have missed that. I thought the “Bag of Juice” and mixins for Purple Drank was in his Hoodie pouch.
The Crumpy story was that when TM was leaving to go to 711, Chad asked him to bring him back a bag of skittles.
He did in this video.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1543560623001/what-really-happened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died
This was an interesting video for two reason: Looking at the body language of Chad, he seems to have a smirk on his face as if he has to restrain himself from laughing when he talks about asking TM to bring him skittles back from the store. He seems to be amused here. Look really closely at the 50 second mark to about the 1:10 mark.
The announcer states that Tracy Martin, Brandy, and Chad went to dinner but not Trayvon?
Thought the video was interesting for those reasons and also, I forgot, how guarded Brandy’s demeanor seemed to be. I could be reading that one wrong though.
No analysis of what it means, just my observations.
Correction: the video only mentions Tracy and Brandy went to dinner, not Chad.
Angel – Reading this video a bit differently. To me, Chad appears as any child or young teen that is not accustomed to a televised interview would – a bit nervous and self-conscious (e.g. a nervous smile). There is clearly some tension between Chad and Brandy. My guess is the stress is specific to the interview and what will or won’t be divulged in the way of responses. On the “skittles” response, I saw less smirk than I did a planned / practiced dialogue (as opposed to candid, genuine answers). Although Brandy, in comparison, had a very solemn look on her face, it wasn’t until the last 3rd of the interview that even a glimmer of genuine emotion entered in to her responses – probably because both she and her son were passed the parts that covered the crime itself and more exclusive to feeling rather than detail.
Deifam is sitting right in the middle of the Da Nile
So why don’t you answer the questions I presented for us?
Why was TM calling the stooges earlier in the day if what we are learning is correct?
I don’t know howie.
The defense has the telephone records, even though they have not been released to the public. The phone records of TM, GZ and DeeDee are some of the discovery that the pros. has been fighting to have sealed. O’Mara has also asked that those records remain sealed. O’Mara has been saying that he just wants everything to calm down. Didn’t he say something to the affect that if this info. gets out it will cause more tensions? Didn’t DLR say that if the police interviews with GZ were released that it will damage the prosecutions case?
I have no reason to believe that TM didn’t call at least one of the 3 stooges. Wasn’t he watching out of the door at 711, as though waiting for someone? I would be shocked if the 711 clerk wasn’t interviewed by the defense team. With the video of TM’s purchase, where he seemingly can’t stand up, without leaning on and holding the counter, would bring interesting testimony from the clerk. The blunt issue would also be discussed, no doubt.
Remember how Crumpy came out saying that TM was on the phone with DeeDee for a gazillion hours that day? Wouldn’t it be interesting if that was not true. Wouldn’t it be interesting to find out that the call at 7:12 wasn’t even from DeeDee, but from someone else in that area. No names or numbers were ever released by Crumpy.
Suppose the defense has already tried to depose DeeDee, and she refused to participate. She has refused to talk with the police, and would only talk to DLR. If she refuses to talk with the defense, is the case over and done at that point? She is the state’s star witness.
“If she refuses to talk with the defense, is the case over and done at that point?”
I think the 5th Amendment is the only way she can refuse to talk if under subpoena. Then the State has to give her immunity to overcome her 5th Amendment rights if they want her to be able to testify. Next comes contempt. So yeah, I’m thinking that the State probably drops the charges if Dee Dee clams up.
Zimmerman is the state’s star witness.
The States star prosecutor is about to disappear I bet. There is no way she can stay after Dershowitz ripped her to shreds. I would bet the state is going to have to reduce the charges to Manslaughter on its own if Omara is worth his Salt. Otherwise the nightmare would end. Maybe they are doing a slow meltdown as opposed to a sudden shock.
There’s no more evidence to support manslaughter than there is 2nd-degree murder. So I HOPE that if they change the charges, that GZ supporters don’t all go, “Ok, that’s better.” That will NOT be better. If all of a sudden people start assuming that a manslaughter charge is “reasonable”, then that’s a BIG problem!
TM knew GZ was not a cop because he didn’t get apprehended at gun point or shot when he kept reaching for his waist as if to draw a weapon as he circled GZ’s vehicle.
TM might have recognized GZ as the neighborhood watch guy that he had threatened earlier or he might have just figured that he was someone who was disrespecting him by profiling him.
TM probably thought GZ was on the phone with the cops but figured that the cops would not be coming because GZ hadn’t seen him commit an actual crime other than tresspassing.
If TM was planning on assaulting GZ, he would know that someone would call the cops and they would respond to an assault. It was therefore necessary for him to stash any contraband including pot, the stogie, and cough syrup to mix his drank. If the cops did respond, then there would be no evidence that he wasn’t the sweet, innocent child that Crumpy portrays him as.
Notice that TM did not attack GZ until after GZ got off the phone with the cops.
Dee Dee might have actually said something other than “run”. Maybe something like, “Yo a mamma’s boy Tray, beat dat punk azz crackah’s azz.” Hence her failure to report the call to police and her feelings of guilt.
As I’ve been saying all along!
Dee Dee’s failure to call the cops or tweet about what happened the next day about that fateful night truly raises some questions. It just doesn’t seem plausible that if Dee Dee was on the phone with TM and she knew he was being followed and scared to death to the point that Dee Dee was telling him to run…..run…..run…..that she would not have felt the need to share her fears with her family or friends at that time or even the next day in in her oh so many tweets.
A gang prospect only 17?
You are assuming he did in fact reach for his waistband, and GZ never told the dispatcher that TM was circling the vehicle.
Any claim that at some point TM became the aggressor and attacked GZ requires you to completely reject everything DD has stated under oath. That claim also forces you to answer why did he run in the first place? To stash his weed from a person you say he knew wasn’t a cop?
TM was not trespassing. He was legitimately in the gated community as a guest of Brandi Green. According to DD he did not think GZ was a cop but some creepy crazy man. You don’t have to hide your weed from a creepy crazy man. If it had been his intent to beat GZ up, he would have done so without regard to the weed he might have possessed.
If he is stashing everything, why didn’t he stash the juice and the candy? You are already conceding that he was ready to be caught by the police so he stashed the drugs. So why did he bring a bag of juice and candy back to assault GZ?
it is not hard to reject what Dee Dee said because it is in fact a lot of concocted lies. Crump has a lot to do with Dee Dee… that is a real signal that something is not right with what she claims….. especially when she never tweeted about talking to TM on the day that he died.
Aussie, darling, it’s hard not to LAUGH out loud when reading the transcript of Dee Dee’s interview. She’s all over the place when BDLR isn’t giving her the answer first.
Exactly. She has absolutely no credibility as a witness. That is why they have to try and destroy the credibilty of both George and Shellie Zimmerman.
“And why did he run in the first place?”
Unprovoked flight: recognized as a reliable indicator of criminality for thousands of years.
Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion.
Illinois v. Wardlow – 528 U.S. 119 (1999):
An individual’s presence in a “high crime area,” standing alone, is not enough to support a reasonable, particularized suspicion of criminal activity, but a location’s characteristics are relevant in determining whether the circumstances are sufficiently suspicious to warrant further investigation, Adams v. Williams, 407 U. S. 143,144,147-148. In this case, moreover, it was also Wardlow’s unprovoked flight that aroused the officers’ suspicion. Nervous, evasive behavior is another pertinent factor in determining reasonable suspicion, e. g., United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U. S. 873, 885, and headlong flight is the consummate act of evasion.
First of all Zimmerman was pursuing him. So that Proverb does not apply to this situation. Zimmerman admitted as such so we don’t have to speculate. In fact he had been following in his car according to TM communicated to DD.
Second people also run because they are afraid. O’Mara is going to have hard time cross examining DD on TM’s fear especially since his fear’s were realized. How can you question a person’s fear of a man who ultimately kills them minutes later?
Third Zimmerman’s suspicion was shaped way before TM started running, and in the cases that you cited, none of the defendants deemed suspicious were being followed by a civilian. They are highly distinguishable for that reason.
Cite a case where reasonable suspicion was found when a person is being followed by an unknown stranger who is non law enforcement who then runs from this stranger.
They are aware of the Dee Dee script. It’s over.
where is your proof of any pursuit. There is no evidentiary proof that there was such a pursuit. None whatsoever. You are making things up.
BTW DeeDee if she takes the stand will end up on perjury charges. She is already in deep doo doo over her lies.
If they offer her immunity, she’ll sing like a canary.
Yo check it. Get yo hankie ready. Ay Yo Trip. Salty, you. Nodiggity he be jackin da Zim. Jet Cuzz.
When TM ran, GZ was in his car talking to the police operator. There your story is gone into the flames.
It does not sound that you have looked at a layout of the complex. TM was staying at one end of a long sidewalk. The encounter occurred at the other end of that sidewalk where it intersected with another sidewalk forming the shape of a T. According to TM’s girlfriend, he told her he was by his dad’s place. He told her he had lost GZ, and then saw him. He didn’t have to go looking. He caught sight of George as George walked down the sidewalk into the intersection of that T. George did not see him. George actually had lost sight of TM as he would have considering the layout and position of buildings so you cannot say he was following.
TM had “checked” out George when he was sitting in his truck. This is stated in the police phone call George made. TM most likely determined that George was not a cop. Also in that phone call, George states that TM had something in his hand but he could not tell what it was. Possibly that was the watermelon juice but unlikely as that had been put inside of TM’s hoodie pocket. Why did TM run? Initially to lose George and get to his dads. He most likely had not made a decision to attack George at that point.
Now, he is at his dad’s back porch when he spies GZ. He would only stash his stuff when he decided to confront GZ. Why again you ask? Even if he had figured that George was not a cop, he was a “white” guy who dared to spy on him. GZ also could get him in trouble – he is already suspended and was caught with jewelry at the school. He didn’t need another tattler. Very possible that what TM had been carrying in his hand was something stolen along the way of his walk. That has never been identified and does not appear to be any of the items found on or near him at the crime scene. Now, TM did not know the cops were on their way. That question should actually be directed at GZ as to why he would bother confronting TM when he knew the cops were on their way. But then, he didn’t intentionally.
Now, the juice and candy were in TMs pockets. TM was not concerned about those or didn’t think about them. If you watched the 7-11 video, getting to his pockets was a major feat. What ever the reason, he simply did not take the time to remove them from his pockets. What he had to get rid of was most likely whatever it was that he was carrying in his hand that George noted and he needed to get rid of his drugs – possibly they are one and the same. Again, he did not have to go look for George. George presented himself in his line of vision.
Ludicrous theories? I would say that is much more applicable to the theories the prosecutions and Martins have been espousing.
GZ said TM had something in his hand. TM also had trouble fishing around in his pockets at 7-11. There was something he didn’t want to pull out. What if he had a small hand gun? Seriously. What if? It would make more sense that he would divest himself of that than Robitussin. Leaving it on Brandy’s porch to go take down the old guy. It’s not like he could shoot GZ and hide in Brandy’s apartment.
~just a random thought that snuck into my head when I should be working.
“There was something he didn’t want to pull out. What if he had a small hand gun?”
What if it was his cellphone? What if?
His willingness to go back out to confront the “old guy” necessarily means he was not concerned about the police. So why would he have to stash his gun or his drugs for an old guy? You can’t answer that question because you all are trying to fit a square piece in a circle hole. You are trying to make someone into a criminal who was not and someone who is into someone innocent. The glass slipper isn’t fitting.
What was the gun to heavy for him to fight the old man with so he had to take it home to lighten his load? But then he brings the juice and the candy back with him. Come on you don’t really believe that do you ? And moreover, do you really have that low of an opinion for criminal defense attorneys in the state of Florida? Do you think a reputable criminal defense attorney would try to make that argument to a jury?
The state is going to have its version of how the confrontation started. It won’t be enough to try to poke holes in their version contrary to popular belief. The jury is going to want to know from the man who was there how it happened.
I think that is the whole point ,at least from my perspective, that there is doubt to what could have happened here and I thought when there is doubt,, that it is afforded to the accused. who is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The law holds the defendant does not have to prove his/her innocence as he is already presumed to be that but he has to be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.. And if there is anything I take from this case is that there is too much doubt here.
Isn’t that what the legal system, the great U.S. Constitution is based on? That is better that a few guilty people go free than one innocent person convicted. I think that is what I learned in my government class. Yes, I am sure that is where I heard that. Are we now saying that there should be exceptions? If so, maybe its time to rewrite the U.S Constitution which include the bill of rights to say one is guilty until proven innocent.
I wonder if the same people who have decided GZ is guilty, based on “evidence” presented so far, if they were in his shoes would revisit the US Constitution and demand better treatment than what has been afforded to GZ so far. I have said this before and I will say it again, I don’t know if GZ is guilty, he very well could be but I do know he is innocent until proven guilty by the facts, not conjecture or theories. I want that for him because it is what I would want for myself or my family members if I or them were in the same situation. “An injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere.” If he is found guilty based on untainted evidence, then so be it and let justice assert itself..As Scott Turow noted in his legal thriller, Presumed Innocence, “If we do not know truth, what hope is their for justice?.” ..
Maybe in this climate it is folly to believe in the ideals set forth in the U.S. Constitution.
That is all.
For all we know the place where the confrontation actually took place could have been “right by his dad’s house”. I live right by the airport, but I am still a 15 drive from it. Planes don’t land in my back yard.
What TM says to DD is that GZ was “getting close”. You need to review her statement. You are obviously unclear on what was said. If GZ is getting close to him, and then TM according to DD says, “why are you following me for?” So we can say GZ was following him. Why else did GZ not get back to his vehicle in the time that he stayed on the phone after he stopped running and the minute he had before the confrontation. Almost 2:30 seconds elapsed after he stopped running to the time of the physical confrontation. In 2:30 he would have easily been able to make it to the mailboxes or the vehicle.
Why would he be concerned about minor weed or drug possession but not concerned about assaulting a white male? He is going to run home to hide misdemeanor weight weed, and some medicine concoction so he won’t get caught with it and get in trouble, but he is willing to get in trouble for possibly killing a white man in a strange city. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I am sorry to break it to you so bluntly.
He was possibly carrying something stolen? There were no reports of anything stolen in the entire neighborhood at or around that time to the police. Why would someone who stole property from someone get to the safety of their home, and then come back out to beat up someone else? I realize your obsession with criminalizing TM, but that is absurd. You have TM who has no arrest record and you have GZ who does and yet you have transformed TM into this career criminal at 17 despite no record of even one arrest.
Your version is inconsistent with GZ’s father’s version who claimed that his son went to get an address at the top of the T to Retreat View Circle and then was walking to his vehicle. So how could have TM seen him from his back porch if GZ was down at the other end walking towards his vehicle? Once again you are making absolutely no sense.
By the time TM could run all the way down to GZ, GZ would have been in his vehicle. And I thought the juice was an ingredient of his drugs. Or you are not a lean theorist? If he was trying to get medicine to mix with the juice and then he stashes the marijuana and the medicine, why would he not stash the juice also?
When you couple these childlike theories that are easily shreddable by the slightest application of common sense with GZ and his wife’s penchant for lying even to the judge that is presiding over his case, you have with all due respect, a delusional outlook of the case.
DeeDee did not hear anything. Her whole testimony is nothing more than a Crump construct. It is a web of lies.
Does anyone know where this extra footage of the three stooges came from?
From the data dump.
thanks
From the Discovery evidence. The entire segment of the 7-11 video CCTV feed the prosecutors requested from the 7-11 folks and included in the discovery release round 1.
and thank you too
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Tell him to tell his attorney to work out a plea deal for him and his wife. a 2 for 1 special.
hello Benny
sorry make that Angie
THEIFAM says:
June 13, 2012 at 1:38 am
Tell him to tell his attorney to work out a plea deal for him and his wife. a 2 for 1 special.
——————–
Is that kind of sarcasam really necessary Thiefam? Nobody has ALL the facts yet. GZ has not been fully heard yet either. I believe for the most part when people speak sarcastically or when they spew insults left and right, or even when they are too extreme in their views, they tend to loose credibility. Just sayin’.
Remember, Treepers, that when you are getting a lot of flak, it means you’re over the target. I had been responding to THEIFAM and his multiple drive-by posts, but decided now that he/she is just another fact-deprived, logic-challenged leftist lapdog that swallows whole any Saint Trayvon narrative the media whores put together.
The Task Force on Citizen Safety and Protection will resume at 1 PM ET. about 43 minutes ago
LIVE @ 9 AM on The Florida Channel & WEB1 at http://t.co/a2zcSlMa: Task Force on Citizen Safety and Protection about 5 hours ago
http://thefloridachannel.org/
There is an option on this site where you can request a dvd of this or any of the sessions. Someone here should if you didnt get to watch. Also it states that this channel is on 24/7 so possible it may repeat.
Large venue, not a very big turn out, from vantage pointe given of various cameras. IMHO
I agree with 99% of this, but…
SOMEONE had to know that TM stayed outside.
All the other vids from the various 7-11 cameras end after TM leaves their view – but the one that shows him outside through the glass continues all the way through the “Stooges” little show.
Why?
For this to be included in discovery, SOMEONE knew TM had loitered outside and had interaction with the Stooges.
They included this in discovery because they had no choice – but it appears they carefully avoided mentioning it – likely hoping the defense would not notice.
No other explanation makes sense IMHO – if they’d just chosen a time-period (say 18:15-18:30) then all the vids would have been of that time frame.
They knew – they had to!
Thanks . you are the first person (that I see) that even mentioned that the police or investigators knew something. I was thinking maybe the prosecution probable doesn’t want Trayvons drug use advertised
that is very likely because the prosecutors have been in bed with Crump the “family” ambulance chasing lawyer
Clerk + Blonde
Sundancecracker,
My reaction to the video was not based on the narrative, but the behavior. Natural parents who are “abusive”, as in having a short fuse, will generally get a hold of their emotions much more quickly. A natural parent who was to act like the man above would be way out on the bell curve. As a stepfather (stepmothers are usually worse), he’s worse than most, but not that out of the ordinary.
The control, or lack thereof, is the tell. Trust your instincts.
I worried you were viewing the episode through an “anti-liberal” lens rather than a Christian lens… and Christ never said for us to mind our business. Quite the opposite! Especially with the most vulnerable among us… which gets me to Zimmerman.
I love the work you’re doing on the George Zimmerman case. You show that Christians have a special work ethic and passion that secularists on the alt-Right just don’t have; you’ve been miles ahead of their efforts (Nothing wrong w/ Chuck Ross and he’d reluctantly agree I’d bet).
SD & the Treehouse, ya’ll are welcome on the lil E-mail thing… If ya’ll need ANYTHING, i’ll try to contribute, if i can.. Searching for the TRUTH, that is all! When I got that E-mail reply, i was lik,,, “WHAT”! ya’ll haven’t reviewed the “whole” tape??? WOLVERINES! ;P
Odd. I never assumed the boy was getting smacked with a belt for not catching the ball. I thought it was pretty obvious the father was smacking the boy with the belt because the boy didn’t want to toss the ball. You can clearly see the step-father walk over after smacking the kid and stand ready to catch, then walk back over and smack him again (it is NOT looping the two times he smacked the kid are completely different.)
So he was smacking the kid with the belt for not tossing the ball, instead of for not catching it. Hmm… not really much difference, but ok.
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
4:17 p.m. EDT, June 12, 2012
The wife of George Zimmerman, the man charged with second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, was arrested on a perjury charge on Tuesday, deputies said.
According to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office, deputies were alerted by prosecutors that a warrant had been issued for Shellie Zimmerman, 25. She was arrested about 3:30 p.m. “at the location she was residing in Seminole County,” deputies said in a statement.
She was booked on a perjury charge, with bond set at $1,000. She is currently “in the process of posting bond,” deputies said.
The arrest comes after prosecutors in George Zimmerman’s case told Judge Kenneth Lester that Shellie Zimmerman lied at her husband’s finances, in order to conceal about $135,000 from the court.
This is a developing story. Check back later for updates
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-wife-arrested-20120612,0,6340697.story
https://twitter.com/#!/jeffweineros
3m Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
Developing story: #GeorgeZimmerman’s wife arrested, charged with perjury
6m Bianca Prieto Bianca Prieto @BiancaMPrieto
NOTEWORTHY: #ShellieZimmerman and her husband #GeorgeZimmerman are in the same jail. #trayvonmartin
Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
6m Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
For those wondering, both Zimmermans currently in the same jail. Sanford’s John E. Polk Correctional. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin
7m Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
Affidavit: #GeorgeZimmerman’s wife transferred $74K out of husbands account 4 days before telling judge she didn’t know about any money.
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20m Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
Mugshot: Shellie Zimmerman, wife of #GeorgeZimmerman, arrested http://yfrog.com/nvo8gjoj #TrayvonMartin
View photo
22m Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
BREAKING: Shellie Zimmerman, wife of #GeorgeZimmerman, arrested on perjury charge. #TrayvonMartin
Says her bond only $1000, still unbelievable. IMHO.
How does this fit with Update #28?
Looks a little confusing unless this is leverage for GZ not to sue the state when this is all over. Even that seems like a stretch.
I would like to hear what others think.
I think that they are using Shellie as a means to try to force GZ to agree to a plea deal. And I think it’s ridiculous!! However, she will have her day in court and will hopefully be represented by a good attorney who is a pit bull.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wife-of-George-Zimmerman-arrested-on-perjury-charge/-/1637132/14790348/-/ygrmqmz/-/index.html
Seminole County sheriff’s deputies arrested the wife of George Zimmerman on Tuesday on one count of perjury.
Shellie Zimmerman, 25, was arrested at approximately 3:30 p.m. and brought to the Seminole County Jail on $1,000 bond, deputies said.
SCSO was contacted by investigators with the Office of State Attorney Angela Corey, 4th Judicial Circuit, who advised a warrant had been issued for Shellie Zimmerman, according to a release.
“On April 20, 2012, Shellie N. Zimmerman, did knowingly make a false statement, which she did not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding, to wit, The Bond Hearing of George Zimmerman,” according to court documents.
She is in the process of posting bond, deputies said.
Can’t wait for Team Skittles to harp that the bond is too low.
Poor thing, hang in there Zimmermans!
What a freaking nightmare.
Next they’ll arrest the father, mother, brother, George’s dog, etc. The State really has it out for these people.
I just said the same thing. This is crazy.
I think Corey made a HUGE mistake with this one. Up till now, George and Shelley had to have been worried about the possibility of a perjury charge coming down. If I was (an evil scum like) Angela Corey, I would have just sat on this. I would have just allowed George, Shelley, O’Mara, and everyone else just sweat it out… and I’d try to think of a way to use that uncertainty as some kind of leverage. But now, it’s all over. Now she’s been officially charged, she’s been given a really low bond ($1K), will be out in a matter of hours, she’ll plead not-guilty, and can then ask for one continuance after another, ad infinitum. Her perjury trial (if it ever comes to that) will likely take place AFTER George’s trial (or whatever his disposition). And so, in my opinion, this takes some pressure OFF of the Zimms, rather than leaving them in limbo. And Corey has just LOST any leverage she may have had with a possible perjury charge hanging over their heads.
Judge Lester almost implied that the state was remiss in not having charged her at the time that the bail was revoked. He was absolutely livid. Florida judges are some of the most laid back in the country in terms of demeanor. I lived there for 10 years and know several judges. For them to get upset at a defendant or a witness is not a good thing – particularly when it involves deception.
I guess we’ll find out just how “fair” Lester is, then. Because if he’s angry at George and Shellie over their supposed deception, it should be VERY interesting to see how he reacts to the FAR more numerous, FAR more serious lies and deceptions of prosecution team members and witnesses. Turnabout’s fair play…. right?
They aren’t on trial Zimmerman is. The notion that there is this massive conspiracy to convict an insignificant nobody like Zimmerman is delusional.
by the end of this case the Persecution will be on trial.
Indeed. A threat is much stronger than it’s execution — Aaron Nimzowitsch
They’re going after his entire family now. This is insane!
leverage to get GZ to plea out…. Simple as that…
Where is the warrant and perjury probable cause affidavit for George?
Oh, that’s right, George did not actually commit perjury. And being a “potted palm”, otherwise known as exercising ones constitutional rights under the 5th amendment, is not a crime. Yet George is the one being punished by having his bail revoked.
Malicious prosecution at its finest.
I believe the Judge was angry because Zimmerman made misrepresentations on a bail application which is an offense even though it the application was not made under oath.
shellie zimmerman has been arrested for perjury
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57451850-504083/shellie-zimmerman-wife-of-george-zimmerman-arrested-for-perjury/
this case is getting to me now. Its very disturbing what is being done to GZ and family. And this treatment has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
A witness’s propensity to lie – particularly to a judge has a major bearing on guilt and innocence.
THEIFAM understands Florida Evidence Code = No
Agreed.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wife-of-George-Zimmerman-arrested-on-perjury-charge/-/1637132/14790348/-/ygrmqmz/-/index.html
…She has posted bond and was been released at 4:21 p.m, deputies said.
Booking document
http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/14790490/data/1/-/x6n0xuz/-/Shellie-capias.pdf
Good. Everyone please read my other comment about this. I think Corey messed up big time. Before today, she had the Zimms stressing over whether or not there’d be a perjury charge. But now it’s done. The case will be bumped down the road for many, many months. Any stress and UNCERTAINTY George and Shelley felt is now over. They don’t even have to THINK about this perjury case any more (not until WAY in the future). Corey is evil. Corey is insane. Corey is STUPID.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Judge-scolds-George-Zimmerman-in-order-revoking-bond/-/1637132/14787908/-/m877ej/-/index.html
Judge scolds George Zimmerman in order revoking bond
Order released explains why Zimmerman was brought back to jail
…In his order, Lester said recorded conversations between Zimmerman and his wife at the jail “support its assertions of deception.” Lester says prosecutors noted they “spoke in code to make it sound like they were talking about negligible sums of money.”
Lester also says Zimmerman’s unreported passport was avoided during their testimony.
“It is apparent that Shelly Zimmerman testified untruthfully at the bond hearing. The Defendant also testified but did not alert the Court to the misinformation,” Lester wrote. “Most importantly though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he doesn’t properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process.”
A second bond hearing has been scheduled for June 29 at 9:30 a.m. by Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara.
“Most importantly though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he doesn’t properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process.”
No kidding? “…integrity of the judicial process” How could anyone, Zimmerman especially, “properly” respect our judicial process?
Jack Asses, all of ‘em.
Now the New Black Panty Party has a new photo for their next ‘wanted dead or alive’ poster. I wonder if they have more money for the bounty or if they will take it out of the $10,000 they already promised for George?
Question is why arrest now? Distraction from Corey vs Dershowitz?
Malicious prosecutorial misconduct again?
My opinion…Take the Gloves off.
What is going on here? Blacks are killing blacks at parties, pools, wedding’s, funerals, robbery, and rapes. Blacks are beating down Homosexuals in broad daylight and taking pictures of the crimes. yet the federal law is going after the Cops, neighborhood watches and informers of crimes committed. The ones being raised up to Godhood are the crooks and the ones who hold fast to the laws are being demonized. Is this true Black culture? is this what Obama has in store for the nation after he gets reelected? Rule by riots and threats of riots, rule by the law of the gun, rules enforced with a bayonet for some but not for all.
Forget about Zimmerman plea-bargaining with the prosecution. The prosecution needs to ask Zimmerman if they can cop a plea before he sues them. Zimmerman should make them provide witness protection for him and his family for the rest of their lives in return for not sending them to jail.
I am sure that’s what the other 50 murder defendants who went up in flame and blew trial against Angela Corey thought.
I will say this: AC does not appear to be incompetent in her profession. I don’t think she is to be underestimated. What this means for GZ, I don’t know as his case has not gone to trial yet. But time will tell. .
Ugh. I just say NeJame on CNN talking about the case and I only caught the last couple of minutes and all he was talking about was gun control and SYG. Bummer.
Oh my god, dude, are you for real?
“Or let me guess…he was scared of the NBPP and Holder and Obama and that’s why he changed/clarified his story…right?”
You actually brush aside the MURDEROUS THREATS of the NBPP? Really? Those slimebags are no better than the KKK. The ones who made the actual threats should be sitting in jail right now. And the fact that they are NOT is precisely why so many people are afraid right now. Because it looks like racist scum are allowed to get away with pretty much anything, as long as the “Zimmerman is a ruthless killer” narrative is furthered.
So yes, I very much DO believe that “John” has been threatened and has therefore changed his story. And I don’t think he’s the only witness that we’ll see do that. You can belittle their FEAR all you want, but it won’t make the threats go away. Oh, and one more thing…. I am a far-left liberal. And it makes me sick to see most other libs so afraid to stand up and seek the truth in this case. Political correctness run amok!
Jello you are a very sweet far left liberal!! Also, you have a lot in common with most of us…. especially with regard to this garbage called political correctness.
Maybe you are not as far left as you think?
Thanks, Aussie. But about your last line… I’m sure you’ll learn more about me as we go along (probably on subjects unrelated to the GZ/TM case). And when you do, hopefully you’ll not hate me TOO much for my “Libtard” views.
No hate…at least not from the majority of us. Differing opinions is part of our great nation’s culture…but more so freedom of speech and thought, and individual liberty…these are things we usually all agree on.
nah, if you say something out of line then I will just call you a libtard!!
They should be held accountable if they made threats to anyone who has not threatened them.
This really, really is not difficult. The Florida self-defense statute says for your claim to succeed, all you have to show is that you were in fear of death or great bodily harm, and that fear was reasonable. And that’s true even if you “started it”, even if you were the “aggressor”. The only difference is that if that’s the case, then you now have an obligation to try to retreat/escape. So, lemme ask you this:
Was George in fear of death or great bodily harm? (Listen to those screams, and tell me that person was not in fear for his life.)
Was that fear reasonable? (If YOU think it’s no big deal to have someone pinning you to the ground and beating on you, then I don’t know what to tell ya.)
Could he have escaped? (Some witnesses say he was pinned to the ground. And just the fact that he DIDN’T get up seems to prove that he COULDN’T get up.)
That’s it. Pretty simple case of self-defense….. and that is true no matter WHO “started it”.
It’s not that simple because according to GZ he had been threatened by TM prior to the fatal conflict. Florida allows a jury to reject a claim of justifiable deadly force where an individual who had been threatened by the victim prior, arms himself with a weapon and pursues the victim thereby renewing the threat. Under such circumstances, if the person uses deadly force (with that weapon) a jury can reject their self defense claim.
The rationale is that you don’t armed with a deadly weapon pursue someone who threatened you after the threat has abated and then inflame the controversy by putting yourself back into the environment or around the person who had just threatened you.
Even GZ said he didn’t know if TM had a gun. So you see TM run and you are safe, but rather than remain safe, and against NW policies and guidelines (and a direct warning from Wendy Dorival and the dispatcher) GZ put himself into an environment that he should have known would have been explosive. If he is going to take such a risk which the guidelines say he shouldn’t take, he cannot use deadly force.
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/entireversion/onlinejurryinstructions.pdf
pages 64 and 65 PRIOR THREAT
Not all things that are unlawful are criminal. Making a uturn where there is a no uturn sign is unlawful but it is not criminal. Violating a police directive and NW guidelines is unlawful.
GZ knew this as will be established from previous calls to the dispatcher. In one instance he is heard saying, “I didn’t want to attract attention.” as a reason why he was not willing to get more identifying information concerning the suspects.
He knew what his legal limits were and he exceeded them. You don’t pursue the bully with a baseball bat after the bully has left you alone.
“…according to GZ he had been threatened by TM prior to the fatal conflict.” Reference, please? (I assume you’re not referring to the words spoken immediately prior to the altercation.)
This is Crump’s night crew. None of this nonsense matters. The FBI will be talking to Dee Dee. Truth will out.
A threat does not have to be verbal During the dispatcher call GZ clearly indicates to the dispatcher that TM was looking at him, checking him out, coming at him, put his hand in his waistband, and had something in his hand. After that last observation he then repeats his request for the dispatcher to get the police out there. In another unreleased statement it has been reported that he stated that TM circled the vehicle several times. At his bail hearing he stated clearly that he didn’t know if TM had a gun or not.
All that adds up to a threat by TM of GZ who thought that it was highly possible that TM was armed at the time of the threat.
Well thank you for clarifying what you meant by threat.
Okay, I’ll stipulate that TM was threatening GZ by repeatedly reaching for his waist band as if to draw a gun. This behavior is so threatening that it has become standard police practice to shoot suspects who display such aggressive behavior. Unless GZ had drawn his gun, he was not in any position to shoot TM but he could have and should have responded by running him down with his car to neutralize the threat. GZ didn’t do that.
GZ allowed TM to leave, then after he had disappeared he honored the dispatcher’s request to keep on eye on TM by following at what he assumed was a safe distance. This was piss poor tactics, but not threatening behavior on GZ’s part. All of the physical evidence combined with the timing info in the 911 calls confirm GZs account of TM doubling back to confront and assault GZ. Even Double-Dee-Dee’s statement seems to confirm GZ’s account until BDLR contradicts and coaches her to provide “the right answer.”
Your theory is that if a thug threatens you, you don’t have a right to keep track of where they went to facilitate the police finding them?
Interestingly, one of my wife’s coworkers was shot at a near by grocery store by an armed robber whom she had followed at a distance to get a license plate number for the police. Obviously, she was the aggressor and had no right to defend herself.
I can’t begin to express my disgust for you without resorting to profanity.
Perhaps you would care to volunteer your skull to be my test subject in an experiment to determine if pounding someone’s head against a concrete sidewalk constitutes deadly force?
LOL, James, I do hope you find someone who will agree to your experiment:)
At this point, i am pissed off enough that I can think of several people, Cump, Jabba the Hut and BDLR, who would not have to agree to be a test subject to become one. I am particularly incensed by how the rather gratuitous prosecution for the questionable perjury charges seem to have been intended to provide the New Black Panthers with a photo of SZ and info on where she had been hiding. These vicious vermin better get down on their knees and pray that the New Black Panthers don’t make good on their threats against SZ because I will go primeval on their asses.
I did some research on one of “The Burning Spear” and “Uhuru” groups that organized the protest in St Petersberg. Their are a rabidly racist, vicious Communist organization that Crump seems to be a founding member of.
Check this out then explore their website.
http://uhurunews.com/search?cx=017833355652721471453%3Areu1dtjt7l4&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Zimmerman&sa=Search&siteurl=http%3A%2F%2Fuhurunews.com%2F
Greyston Garcia, with knife in hand, chased down Pedro Roteta for more than a block and stabbed him to death. Judge let him go.
DiwataMan says:
June 13, 2012 at 3:39 am
Greyston Garcia, with knife in hand, chased down Pedro Roteta for more than a block and stabbed him to death. Judge let him go.
But there is a difference in this case because the guy who stole his radio parts had them in a bag and apparently used that bag as a “deadly weapon” against Greystone Garcia when he used it to to take a swing at him. Plus, Greystone Garcia was defending his person and his stolen property. Both men were armed in according to the law.
GZ was not defending his person or his stolen property according to the prosecution and used a gun against an “unarmed” boy..
in this case the fists were the means by which the youth, near adult individual was using deadly force upon the head of GZ.
He was not unarmed, he was armed with his hands and his fists and he was using MMA style to carry out the felony of assault.
Good points. In addition Garcia had not been threatened prior to his pursuing Roteta with a deadly weapon. GZ was according to his comments to the the dispatcher.
You don’t seem in any hurry to reply to my previous query, but let’s give you a couple more.
“Florida allows a jury to reject a claim of justifiable deadly force where an individual who had been threatened by the victim prior, arms himself with a weapon and pursues the victim thereby renewing the threat.” GZ didn’t “arm himself” – he was already carrying. There’s a difference.
“…rather than remain safe, and against NW policies and guidelines (and a direct warning from Wendy Dorival and the dispatcher) GZ put himself into an environment that he should have known would have been explosive.” You’re new around here, aren’t ya? Otherwise you’d have seen the answer to this before, b/c it comes up fairly regularly in regard to what the dispatcher said and how GZ responded. Heck, even if you’d read this whole thread, you’d have noticed the answer. In response to a query (above) by chevymisty, Jello333 says: “Not those exact words, but I’m sure to George it DID seem that the dispatcher was asking him to keep an eye on him, even if that meant getting out of the truck. ‘Let me know if this guy does anything else,’ and then a minute later, ‘He’s running? Which way’s he running?’ It was only then that George left the truck. So whether he meant to do it or not, I think the dispatcher in effect ASKED George to follow.”
As for the “direct warning from Wendy Dorival,” I checked out the newspaper article that this quote appeared in (well, I checked out one such newspaper article but there were probably others that said the same thing b/c “reporting” in the MSM is just one big incestuous circle these days). It read:
“Police volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival said she met Zimmerman in September at a community neighborhood watch presentation.
“I said, ‘If it’s someone you don’t recognize, call us. We’ll figure it out,’ ” Dorival said. “‘Observe from a safe location.’ There’s even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don’t know how many more times I can repeat it.”
So what it says is that she met GZ at this presentation, but what it does NOT say is that they had a personal conversation in which she told GZ, “If it’s someone you don’t recognize” blah blah. That’s implied by the writer, but it ain’t necessarily true. We’ve already seen some strikingly dishonest editing in this case. Dorival may just be describing what she says in her usual presentation, accompanied by slides, not what she said one-on-one to GZ.
But let’s assume that she did say directly to GZ, “If it’s someone you don’t recognize, call us. We’ll figure it out. Observe from a safe location.” Is this not, in fact, what he did on the night in question? He saw someone he didn’t recognize (and who was, moreover, acting in a manner that raised questions in GZ’s mind); he contacted the police; he observed from a safe location (his truck) UNTIL he thought he was being asked to step out of that safe location. When the dispatcher THEN asked if he was following, GZ responded in the affirmative, and when the dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that” (which is the closest he comes to a “direct warning”), GZ says “OK” and – guess what? – he stops. He is NOT pursuing TM – in fact, he has lost sight of him.
“Violating a police directive and NW guidelines is unlawful.” Advice from a police dispatcher is not a police directive. NW guidelines are guidelines, not laws, and therefore failure to adhere to them cannot be unlawful in and of itself.
Well, well, well, I just glanced up the page to check on something else and I see that you’ve been quite busy today, haven’t you? Well, I’ve spent time writing this reply now, so I’ll go ahead and post it anyway. Someone who’s interested in the truth might read it.
Sandusky says:
June 13, 2012 at 4:01 am
“Violating a police directive and NW guidelines is unlawful.” Advice from a police dispatcher is not a police directive. NW guidelines are guidelines, not laws, and therefore failure to adhere to them cannot be unlawful in and of itself.
I don’t get this either Sandusky. Everybody keeps saying GZ unlawfully disobeyed a police directive. Since when is a dispatcher a policeman? Fact. GZ did not disobey a police directive. I wish people would get this fact straight once and for all.
Right, Jamie. And even if the dispatcher WAS a policeman, he did NOT give GZ a directive to stay in the vehicle or not to get out of the vehicle. As mentioned above, there is every reason to believe that in getting out of the vehicle, GZ thought he was doing what the dispatcher wanted, i.e., trying to keep TM in sight from a safe distance. But the general public tend to believe the first story they were told and they don’t want to be confused by facts later, especially when those facts conflict with a story that allows them to feel righteous anger at a racist. (Theifam doesn’t appear to be just a member of the general public, but that’s another issue.)
Trying not to bag up. Banger wuz BG. Ya geekin mon.
What evidence is there that GZ ignored the dispatcher’s suggestion? The dispatcher said that GZ didn’t need to do that, and GZ said OK. The dispatcher is not a LEO. A suggestion is not a police directive. And there is no evidence that GZ disregarded it anyways.
Whether he was already armed or arms himself is not relevant. It’s whether at the time he started to pursue TM he was armed. That’s what matters. The instruction assumes that the person having been threatened initially was not armed at the time as GZ was, but it does not matter whether he was armed during the initial threat or not. What matters is that he pursued TM armed with a deadly weapon after the threat.
“Florida allows a jury to reject a claim of justifiable deadly force where an individual who had been threatened by the victim prior, arms himself with a weapon and pursues the victim thereby renewing the threat.” GZ didn’t “arm himself” – he was already carrying. There’s a difference.
Why is there a difference? Why should a person already armed be allowed to confront the person who threatened them, but a person not already armed shouldn’t? The instruction covers anyone armed after the threat has been issued. Whether they were armed already is irrelevant. If that were the intent of the instruction- to make a distinction between those armed and those not armed- everyone would say they were armed at the time of the initial threat and then pursued, and the instruction would serve no purpose.
‘Let me know if this guy does anything else,’ and then a minute later, ‘He’s running? Which way’s he running?’ It was only then that George left the truck. So whether he meant to do it or not, I think the dispatcher in effect ASKED George to follow.”
George did let the dispatcher know. He said TM was running. Before George even starts running he has communicated to the dispatcher what direction he is running. There was no need as the dispatcher pointed out for him to follow him. The police were a couple of minutes away. The ultimate events that transpired are proof positive that he could not in that environment observe from a safe distance because he did not know where TM was going to go or what TM was going to do. In essence there was no safe observation of TM other than in his vehicle- and GZ even felt threatened in there but TM left him alone. He didn’t even want to give the dispatcher his home address because he wasn’t even sure if TM was in hearing distance. So that is an open acknowledgment that he wasn’t even sure if he was at a safe distance seconds after he got out of the car.
When the dispatcher THEN asked if he was following, GZ responded in the affirmative, and when the dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that” (which is the closest he comes to a “direct warning”), GZ says “OK” and – guess what? – he stops.
No he doesn’t. You can hear him clearly running for several (approx. 14) seconds after the “suggestion” to stop (since that is what you want to call it), and even then what evidence do you have from the recording, that he stopped? When one becomes a fugitive, does that mean people stop looking for you? NO!!! Yet they don’t know where you are. To say that because he didn’t know where TM was means he wasn’t looking for him is a non sequitur.
Why would anyone rely on a statement of a man that’s looking at 25 years if he said he did continue to look for TM – a man who transfers funds out of an account by code days before his bail hearing so it would look like he has no money, and a few days later has the money put back in the account? That’s whom we are supposed take the word of about whether he stopped? The man who exclaimed, “these a**holes, they always get away” (moments before) was going to let another one get away? A man who was so concerned the guy he thought was an armed criminal was going to bum rush his home that he thought twice about giving his address out? He was going to stop on a dime, and start looking for an address that no one asked him to get, and that he never gave to anyone after he allegedly got it? I don’t think so. You guys talk about Dee Dee’s credibility but even Zimmerman’s own lawyer is concerned about his client’s. The fact that none of you are demonstrates the rose colored glasses with which you view the facts. Even the Latino community has largely distanced themselves from him. They know a liar when they hear one – black, Latino, white whatever.
http://amren.com/news/2012/03/latino-organizations-dismiss-george-zimmerman-question-his-ethnicity/
http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/por-que/details/no-worries-pueblo-george-zimmermans-latino-credentials-have-been-officially/15150/
Any self respecting red blooded American would, faced with the possibility of his family being harmed by an armed thug, pay no attention to a “suggestion” that he not do so.
“Violating a police directive and NW guidelines is unlawful.” Advice from a police dispatcher is not a police directive. NW guidelines are guidelines, not laws, and therefore failure to adhere to them cannot be unlawful in and of itself.
It’s not just Wendy Dorival who incidentally is also not a police officer. There were Officer Buchanan and Sergeant Herx who also came to the HOA NW meeting to emphasize the limitations of a NW patrol person
The limitations are written into the Handbook promulgated not by a civilian dispatcher, but by the Sanford Police Department. I am sure you can read page 3 and page 15 paragraph 10. I am sure GZ read it also.
In America the police are the law. I don’t know what country you are from, but here if the police lay down the rules and they are broken the person who has broken them has acted unlawfully- perhaps not criminally – but unlawfully nevertheless. If a police officer tells a group of people to disperse because he perceives a potential conflict (not even because they were acting disorderly) and they refuse to do so, they are acting unlawfully even though most states don’t have a “failure to disperse law”.
where is your evidence? There is none. You are making things up again Angie
When did this threat by TM against GZ occur? Are you referring to the Internet post previously to the encounter where TM expresses hostility towards the head of the neighborhood watch at his dad’s place? For this to have bearing on the case, you would have to have proof that GZ was aware of the threat and had recognized TM. You would also have to prove that GZ was carrying in anticipation of meeting TM during his trip to the store.
This is an insane legal theory, perhaps advanced by a Crump surrogate to portray TM’s previous threats to GZ as implicating GZ.
Perhaps you would volunteer to be my test subject in an experiment to prove that TM wasn’t committing a deadly force assault?
No he was threatened by TM on the same evening. It was one of the reasons why he repeated his request for the police to get there. “He’s coming to check me out— He’s got something in his hands– I don’t know what his deal is — you need to get an officer over here” That is clearly an expression of apprehension and fear — GZ was a victim of a threat.
Watch where he goes after running is nothing like approach and confront. Its a pivotal issue, best decided in open court with all the details. I can’t imagine any reason for Zimmerman to approach Trayvon, but people can do dumb things.
Trayvon did NOT have a key to the condo, so he may walked all the way to it and had no way to get in and decided to wait for “somebody” back up at the front gate.
“Trayvon did NOT have a key to the condo, so he may walked all the way to it and had no way to get in and decided to wait for “somebody” back up at the front gate.”
That doesn’t fit the script. Chad was home, waiting anxiously for his Skittles.
Exactly John Gault. If Trayvon knew he did not have a key to the condo he would not have walked all the way to the condo and then walk all the way to the front gate again. How ridiculous – an assumption.
I agree with John and Jamie.
I don’t believe Chad was home and it was HE that made up the story about the Skiitles. Why Do I believe that? He claim that he never heard anything. A gunshot can EASILY be heard 70 yds away, plus all the sirens where some had to pass by the condo, the gate by which the condo was near was secured. TOO many for him to say he knew nothing was going on UNLESS he was NOT HOME. Probably someplace he was not supposed to be and won’t say.
This goes to TM’s state of mind. Presumeably he was afraid and ran back to the condo only to find he was locked out; no key, Chad gone, and some “crazy, white guy” watching him. I don’t believe he knew at this time that GZ left his SUV. Even according to DeeDee, he made it to the condo. He looks back up the T of the sidewalk and sees GZ standing at the dog poop station probably moving his flashlight around. Pissed off and “maybe” stoned and paranoid. He goes back up the sidewalk to confront GZ to find out “what his problem was”. He removed his pin and places it in his pocket just in case of a fight. When he confronts GZ he just snaps; punches him in the nose and procedes to try and kill him by smashing his head on the concrete walk. The fight starts at the T where the keys were found and drifts down the walk.
No drugs or Black and Milds were found because TM ditched the remains BEFORE GZ saw him. GZ did not see him smoking, therefore it was gone before he saw TM. Which is why he did not NEED to ditch them on the way to or it at Brandy’s. Residue from weed or tobacco can be still on TM’s fingers, I don’t know if they were checked.
Also, TM ran down the street “towards the back gate” and not to the T. GZ ran to the T which means that he was NOT following him. This is what Corey does NOT want out to the public.
Excellent. I have thought about the same thing. No evidence to say TM ran around the corner and down the sidewalk. He could have run down the street then come back up the sidewalk. We assume TM ran to the top of the T. The way this case is developing Mr. Z is being treated like John Wilkes Booth.
“No evidence to say TM ran around the corner and down the sidewalk.”
Actually, there is evidence that Mr. Martin ran down the street. Georgie said, “He ran!” When the dispatcher asked which way, Georgie replied that Mr. Martin ran, “Towards the back gate.”
If Mr. Martin ran toward the T, Georgie would NOT have said “back gate” as running to the the T is NOT towards the “back gate” and he would have NOT known if that it would eventually be Mr. Martin’s final destination.
Since Georgie did not run down the street “towards the back gate” and instead went to the T at the top of the dog walk, HE NEITHERED CHASED NOR FOLLOWED Mr.Martin. This shoots down the prosecution arguement completely as to Georgie “hunting him down”.
Yep I like this too. Deedee has to go under oath because she’s the one who said Trayvon was scared
Dee Dee has already been under oath. She has already committed Perjury, in all liklihood. Her story does not make sense and she contradicts herself.
You may mean cross examination. Dee Dee is the Center of their case, and she’s a mess.
Yep your right. what got me mad was watching Crump talking to Erin Burnett about GZ wife. He said something like its always best to tell the truth in court. Thats why I want deedee on the stand.
having DeeDee on the stand is totally laughable. If anything having DeeDee on the stand will be the beginning of the end for Crump and his fellow ambulance chasers because DeeDee is using the Crump script and she will panic.
I find it amusing that everyone wants to discredit GZ’s account but its hands off for W8 whose account is troubling to put it mildly. Its fortunate for GZ that he has the constitutional right to be confronted with the witnesses against him according to the Constitution. W8 can be questioned in the court of law, if not in the court of public opinion. And Bill of Right #6 does not make provisions that exclude a witness because they may be a minor or experiencing trauma because of the incident.
Great!!
can’t the defense also depose her prior to any trial? That could be a whole lot of fun because she will not be able to use the Crump script!!
Yes, that will be a debacle. Be prepared to get a magistrate present at the depo or on the phone in case BDLR attempts to improperly interfere.
Gang training. Act like you are not going to do anything the strike suddenly out of the Blue. This catches your victim off guard and gives the Gangstah the edge.
How do you know GZ ran to the T? Because that’s what he said he did. He also claimed to be indigent. Do you still believe that also? He also claimed that TM was in his late teens. This guy has no problem lying at all.
Did I say Georgie SAID he ran to the T? No, I did NOT! Why? Because Georgie NEVER said that.
You need to listen and more think more logically and less with your emotions. I SAID Georgie ran to the T not him because it fits the timeline as when the sound of the wind started and abated. He did place himself behind the condos which is why he couldn’t find an address. Also there was the clinking sound which could have been the flashlight against the poop station.
At a running speed of 3 secs. per 10 yds. the young former wide receiver Mr. Martin could have easily made the 70 yds to Brandy’s in about 20 to 25 secs. George didn’t even open the door until 11 secs. after he said the athletic Mr. Martin ran “towards the back gate”; give another 3 to 4 seconds for Georgie to emerge from the SUV, it would put Mr. Martin just about 20 yrds. from Brandy’s and the safety of the condo, which being that it was now nighttime and rainy, GZ lost sight and the best way to even attempt to try and locate him, he would need to go to the T in the walk to see between the buildings.
Educate your self and listen to the non-emergancy tape. Not just to what was said, but also to background noises. Again, Georgie Z. NEVER CHASED NOR FOLLOWED Mr Martin. He did however, attempt to watch for him, but he lost sight if him until TM came back and attacked him. Evidence you say? The keys are the key.
How are the Keys the Key?
Oh…Mr. Z could not go for his gun if he had his keys in one hand and his flashlight in the other?
And that too, which I mentioned last week. Of course he may have grown a third arm… >0
Georgie’s keys were found in the grass at the T.
Shows 2 things: He was about to go back to his SUV and that he was blindsided by Mr Martin. If Georgie was to instigate the fight he would have put his keys in his pocket (along with the flashlight). But if he was attacked first with a first to the face, specifically the nose, he would have dropped the keys and put his hands up to protect his face. The fight drifted down the walk a few yards where Mr. Martin athletism placed him on top of Georgie in his attempt to kill him. Georgie Z. was then put in a kill or be killed situtation.
Get off the narcotics. You don’t even know what you said or what I said. When your head clears, notify me.
Was he awake? Did he have on headphones? Please enlighten us since you obviously know?
that is extremely silly reasoning.
Where was Chad? He was supposed to have been in the Condo… that kind of spoils your scenario.
It is best to ban TheIfam-he is a malicious troll. Just saying, but your call. A lot of trolls are invading certain places now coming to light and taking over. Be careful.
“he is a malicious troll”
not a garden variety troll, paid rep, floating trial balloons, testing theories
Nope he is malicious trust me he has been at wagist just wait the insults will follow soon.
Milton Wah in disguise? Or the one who lied about my identity?
No Not Milton Wah. Wah is a crass ignoramus. THEIFAM gets crass also but very verbose and intelligently misleading. His crassness comes in as a personal eloquent attack.
ah so not the crass individuals who made up lies about me
The same person was probably responsible for those lies I might add…
Troll = anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoint and makes points that you can’t counter.
To be countered a point needs to be made first. So far you have not made one.. Say what about Tradevons cousin? Was it his Cousin or a Cuzz?
Troll= anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoint, makes points that you can’t counter or makes points that you can’t comprehend.
Troll=Someone who go from site to site making ridiculous points opposite of any known facts and who when faced with the facts counters with a statement to draw out a persons emotions. This you do and have now done again for all here to see. You have proved my point.
You obviously never took a logic course. And by the way it is someone who goes. We speak English in this country.
You can ban THEIFAM, but you can’t ban the truth.
This seems like the right place to post this story:
http://www.care2.com/causes/arizonas-trayvon-martin-another-stand-your-ground-killing.html
Arizona’s Trayvon Martin? Another ‘Stand Your Ground’ Killing
Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/arizonas-trayvon-martin-another-stand-your-ground-killing.html#ixzz1xg1XSpep
You’ll have to read through the majority of the article to get confirmation of the shooter’s race. At least it is mentioned.
After reading the story, I have to say that there are a lot of differences between the ,two shootings.
The shooter in Arizona was Black, not “White Hispanic”
The shooter in Arizona might have felt threatened because the shootey was holding a dog leash and was angry about the shooter nearly running him over accidentally, but niether the shooter or his girlfriend were assaulted.
I would expect Sheriff Joe to throw the shooter’s ass in jail.
The stooges bought a black and mild and he smoked it. He was screwin around talkin to some girl, dawdling when zimmie spotted him. TM ran, hid Zimmie looke for him and whoops! he found him. Zimmie gets punched for his trouble, ends up screaming like a little girl. He shoots the kid, It is a valid self defense claim in my opinion but Zimmie has not been exactly truthful about that night.
there is no proof that he was talking to any girl… that is in fact something that is very debatable at this point in time…. we have yet to see the real records of anybody.
OK, I give up. Where the f**k did this idea of a girl come from?
Stay tuned. I bet the girl has a role.
Trayvon had been staying with his cousin. Who knows if anyone at the Green’s was even expecting him that night. Gang training? LOL Stashing his dope? Why didn’t he stash everything else for convenience sake if nothing else. His phone is breakable. He would not wade into a fight with his phone on him if he could avoid it. He did not go into that confrontation with the intention of fighting but it turned out that way. Only two people know what happened that night. One is dead and the other appears to be a compulsive liar.
ooops alert: another change in the narrative
Everybody check the above to see what is false in this particular narrative.. There is a really big whopper!!
What I notice in the above narrative on the “ooops alert” is that Mr. I.J.D must be the compulsive liar…since only two people knew what happened that night…him…Mr. I.J.D and Trayvon.
Maybe he is the real killer
Ignatius this bunch is logic challenged.
Both THEIFAM and I.J.D. are very late to the party and apparently have failed to read the other longer, fact-based (i.e., with verified references) that link lots of what is *not* part of the leftist media whores’ narrative of Saint Trayvon.
Nice try. Maybe HuffPo has is getting too boring for you?
Maybe you need to realize that there is big world out there, and the facts of the world are not limited to the narrow interpretation of you and the Conservative Treehouse. This is not the only party in town I assure you.
Maybe you need to realize that there is a big world out there, and the fact of the world are not limited to the narrow interpretation of you and the leftist media whores, the race-baiters like Crump, Jackson and Sharpton (remember his lies about the Duke lacrosse players? Tawana Brawley?). Your myopic view of the world is thankfully not the only party in town.
When I first came to this site, you guys were up to something like #8 in the updates. I glanced around for a few minutes, and then you know what I did? Yeah… I went back to the first post, and read right through all the updates in order to get myself up to speed. I think it’s important that anyone coming here for the first time, especially anyone who still assumes the original Crump/MSM-driven narrative was accurate, read through ALL the posts. It’ll probably take a day or two, but it’s WELL worth it.
Thank you, Jello333!
I sorta hate to mention this here but wasn’t Casey Anthony proven to be a liar but she was still found not guilty of murder. as the jurors believe the prosecutors did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt If being a liar was all it took to convict someone of murder, then Casey would probably be in prison today. I’m just saying.
It’s not just that you lie which is bad enough. It’s what you lie about.
More evidence to be released.
http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/Judge-orders-Zimmerman-s-statements-to-be-released/-/14266478/14803976/-/33a5hr/-/index.html
And, why do they feel the need to release conversations between a husband and wife?
Good question. Wouldn’t those conversations be considered privileged?
I understood it to be George’s statements to police. I also thought the judge was to busy and out of town?
You mean confidential and the answer is no. The husband-wife privilege can be only invoked by one of the spouses to prevent the other spouse from revealing or having to reveal communications between the two.
Look at these double standards out of Corey’s mouth.
Q: What kind of gun do you carry?
COREY: I carry a 38-caliber, only for life-threatening conditions. But remember, now, prosecutors are law enforcement officers. And so we have a lot of danger in this job. We are very big advocates of the Second Amendment….As lawyers sworn to uphold the Constitution, we believe in the Second Amendment. We want people to be able to carry whatever they deem appropriate as long as they are trained, as long as they don’t endanger citizens or police officers, and as long as they carry their weapons within the bounds of the law. That’s all we’ve ever asked of anybody. And it’s only when they go over the line that we have to prosecute.
here is the link to the complete article
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Five_Questions_for_State_Attorney_Angela_Corey_159036595.html
Why is that a double standard? You can’t be threatened and then after the threat is over follow armed with a loaded firearm and look for the person who threatened you- cause the threat to be renewed, and then when your life is put in danger again use your firearm to end it. Florida Standard Criminal Jury Instructions 3.6(f)
It’s a double standard because GZ had a registered gun, was trained, and had a permit, and was using it within the bounds of the law. You are way behind the learning curve on this situation — have you not read any of the posts that put the pieces together?
Memo to Zurich:
This cite is not the authority on the Zimmerman murder case. “within the bounds of the law. Says who? The Conservative Treehouse? You? You don’t make that decision a judge or a jury does. Stop acting like taking another human’s life is excusable just because you choose to believe the statements of a person who has demonstrated a propensity to lie. You probably think Zimmerman was in the bounds of law when he claimed he was indigent in his bail application also don’t you? I guess he was in the bounds of law when he assaulted a law enforcement officer also? When a restraining order was taken out against him? When he harassed a co-worker based upon his national origin? When he threw a bar patron across the bar?
Can he do anything wrong at all?
Memo to THEIFAM:
Your posts are not the authority on the Zimmerman self-defense/stand your ground case. Not within the bounds of law? Says who? HuffPo? You? You don’t make that decision; a judge or a jury does. Stop acting like filing a bogus charge devoid of factual basis and ruining a person’s life is excusable because you choose to believe the statements of a prosecutor and celebrity race-baiters who have demonstrated a propensity to lie. Unfortunately you, like the addle-brained leftist media whores, conflate a string of rumors and innuendos without context as proof of guilt of a racist narrative where blacks can do no wrong, and whites (or partial whites) can do no right.
Can Trayvon be any more innocent?
Don’t forget he never bought Arizona Ice Tea. He bought Arizona Watermelon Fruit Cocktail with the skittles. A common concoction for making “Lean” a/k/a Purple Drank. His social media accounts talk about this. The facts are really going to get in the way of everyone’s theory. Hey, Obama, how do you like your son now?
You are talking about it now. Do you use it? Talking about something does not mean the person uses it or has anything to do with it. But all you are doing is letting pro prosecution proponents how desperate you are when you have to resort to such speculation.
A few plastic cups and popsicle sticks and the juice can be made into a nice icy once frozen. That potential use of the juice is just as plausible as is the possibility that it might have been for some sinister purpose.
These six things (6:18)
Nice try. TM was involved online with fellow thugs who were into this scene. How desperate are the pro-TM fans that they ignore any facts that don’t fit the narrative of Saint Trayvon.
We are talking about a murder case here online. Does that mean we are murderers. How ridiculous can you get? Grow up. You sound like a two year old.
So are the media and Crump & Co. Where is your self-righteous wrath against them? Grow up. You sound like a school marm.
when did Trayvon Martin leave the 7 eleven?
6:29pm he exits the view of cameras headed in the general direction of the condo’s.
I believe the answer is in what GZ did not say. GZ got out of his truck and ran for 13 seconds before the officer ask was he following Trayvon. GZ did not say “Trayvon is running behind the houses”. GZ said the kid is running toward the back gate, which would indicate toward the main road where the exit was. Not down the side walk. This makes sence because it was dark between the houses and Trayvon was afraid, Trayvon’s girlfriend said “So he said he was about to run from the back. So, next thing I hear. he just run”. We know when Trayvon said “run from the back” he meant, go throught the path, because GZ followed him on foot with a flash light, for at least 13 seconds, it is only 40 yards to the tee. GZ would have seen him turn. Trayvon losses GZ on the main road and begins to walk home. Before he gets in, he sees GZ again (according to his GF, right at his house). Not wanting GZ to know where he lived, he felt boxed in, and had to go into the dark and up the side walk. The route I’ve laid out is 310 yards long. You can get this distance if you ran 100 yards and walked the rest. I’m sure GZ had his gun out and probably shielded by the flash light. Trayvon, being afraid, struck GZ knocking him to the ground. Trayvon then saw the gun, he got on top of GZ and started yelling for help, while trying to stop GZ from shooting him.
GZ was not yelling for help, he was trying to shoot a kid he felt like was attacking him
LMTAOWAT!
“The route I’ve laid out is 310 yards long”
You do know that almost a fifth of a mile right?
There is a full moon tonight.
if a person is tired, he should walk a mile every 30 minutes. One fifth should take 6 minutes. However if one runs a hundred yards of it, it adds up nicely.
If Trayvon was hiding, why was he on the phone?
If GZ had followed Trayvon down the sidewalk, Trayvon would have had to pass GZ or go to the road.
GZ did not need help, he could stop it anytime he wanted.
GZ said he walked to the main road and back to the tee, that is 120 yards. An old lady would walk that in 2 minutes.
GZ said Trayvon attacked him and immediatly knocked him down, Yet the fight took place 40 feet from any where GZ says he was.
Jesus, Dee Dee! It’s like you know NOTHING about the layout of the neighborhood, or the timing involved, not to mention past and present apparent motivations of GZ. I know it’s confusing, but sheesh…. it’s not even a little bit dripping water or anything!
Yeah, but where did George hide his Klan robe after murdering little Trayvon? There’s no report from any witness that he still had it on when they saw him. And the axe? Where’d he put that? I know he never got a chance to use it on Trayvon, but you know he wanted to. I’m sure to this day one thing George most regrets is not having time to chop Trayvon into little teeny bits before the cops arrived. So I think someone needs to confront the Sanford Police and ask them: Why didn’t you do a thorough search for Grand Dragon Zimmerman’s robe and axe?!!!
I don’t think GZ is a racist. I think he has every right to ask Trayvon what he was doing. I do not believe Trayvon should have run or hit GZ. Running made Trayvon look suspicious, someone should have ask him what he was doing. When Trayvon hit GZ, I believe he was in fear for his life.
What makes you think TM was in fear. Everything he did that night shows he had no fear. Remember Dee Dee telling him to run and he said he wasn’t gonna run. He wasn’t scared.
This is a manslaughter case, because when GZ shot Trayvon he was in fear of his life. I think we can agree on that. GZ’s problem is simply, he has law enforcement training. When my wife stops at a car wreck, she has to be careful because she is held to a higher standard than I am. From what I know about this case, GZ did nothing wrong, except not identifying himself. However one could argue that Trayvon is dead because he did not. Because of GZ’s training this could be manslaughter.
I believe the words you want are ‘Trayvon was in fear that the ol boi was going to find out his was doing something he shouldn’t’.
There seems to be evidence to support an argument, saying Trayvon had just been involded in illegal activity. However because GZ had no knowledge of this, It has nothing to do with case. Nothing was found on him so he was in no fear of being caught stealing or drugs or anything for that matter. Trayvon was in fear of GZ.
GZ = Neighborhood Watch.
TrayDad = Trouble if GZ lets the HO Assoc know what happened.
Trayvon = In trouble already with the ol boi.
I’m glad Trayvon texted you before this all went down. Have you spoken with Angela or Crump yet?
You deal with speculation, not evidence. Stick with evidence; it’s easier to prove.
What have I said that is not in evidence?
Simply read what you have written. If it doesn’t make sense, well…
not only did you find nothing, you never will.
If that’s the best you’ve got, you might as well help out cleaning the fire pit.
How do you know TM didn’t stash something somewhere when Zimm lost sight of him. You have no idea what TM did that night when he was waiting to ambush Zimm. So Mr detective can ya tell me why the button and earbuds were in his pocket.
If GZ did not know Trayvon stashed something or for that matter had drugs on him, it has nothing to do with why GZ shot Trayvon. and the evidence showes Trayvon did not ambush GZ on the side walk he said he was on. GZ got hit at least 30 feet from the tee.
GZ said he did not go down there.
It doesn’t matter if he knew or not point is nobody has any idea what TM did that night. He had enough time to stash what ever he had on him. He was trying to conceal who he was just face it thugs do it everyday in the hood. You probably wouldn’t know that because you don’t deal with kids like him everyday. He was a thug granted he was terrible at it but none the less he was a thug.
What a bunch of crap.
Unless GZ commits an overtly hostile act or indicates an unambiguous intention to assault TM, then TM has no right to attack him. GZ was on his way to the store, not “on duty” as neighborhood watch. The Neighborhood Watch handbook specifically recommends that volunteers not “identify themselves” to potential suspects as if they were some type of pseudo law enforcement.
As for location, TM’s body was located only a short distance from the Tee. Other physical evidence (dropped keys and flashlight) indicates that the fight began a much shorter distance from the Tee. The fight was dynamic, not static. It is also probable that TM remained ambulatory for a few seconds after he was shot and could have moved at least a few yards. Given the well founded presumption that GZ’s gun had a failure to feed due to a failure to fully eject the spent cartridge, the location of the spent cartridge merely indicates where GZ cleared his gun to holster it, not where it was fired. (even if GZ’s gun functioned properly, spent cases can be ejected considerable distance)
What GZ was doing when he spotted Trayvon has nothing to do with this case. The fact that he stopped doing what ever he was doing and began stalking Trayvon for the last 6 minutes of his life does. Trayvon was clearly trying to get away from GZ.
This is the definition of unambiguous intention to assault,
No one should ever identify themselves as a law enforcement agent, unless they are. I don’t know what that has to do with this case.
In the police report, GZ states: he was ambushed and knocked straight to the ground and never moved until after he shoot Trayvon. He said Trayvon fell straight back, Their were I witness as to where Trayvon was shoot. As for the flashlight and keys, GZ could have caught Trayvon at the tee or beyond. But the facts show that Trayvon was coming from his house and GZ was behind him when the struggle began..After the two meet, the phone goes dead. No one sees or hears from them until they are on the ground, what happened during this time no one knows but GZ. You can Believe his story or not, it don’t matter because the fact is; they meet in a dark ally, TM was beating the hell out of GZ, so he shot him. The two men did not know each other so what started the fight is on the phone calls.
Let’s examine your lies.
“and began ‘stalking’ Trayvon” Stalking has a specific legal definition. There in NO evidence of stalking. 1st lie.
“Trayvon was clearly trying to get away from GZ ” There is NO evidence that Mr. Martin did that at all. However, there IS evidence of TM lying-in-wait and ambushing Georgie approx 80 yds. from where he was supposed to be. 2nd lie.
“Their were I witness as to where Trayvon was shoot.” I think U R Crump. U write like he speaks. No lie, but I couldn’t let that statement go unnoticed.
“But the facts show that Trayvon was coming from his house and GZ was behind him when the struggle began.” Seriously! The FACTS show this? Maybe in some fantasy world you live in, but not in a court of law. 3rd lie.
“No one sees or hears from them until they are on the ground, what happened during this time no one knows but GZ. You can Believe his story or not, it don’t matter because the fact is; they meet in a dark ally, TM was beating the hell out of GZ, so he shot him.” If you believe what you wrote is the truth, then this can’t go to trial as there are NO refutting witnesses. The procecution would then have no case. What was discussed in the NEN tape would then have no meaning as it DOES NOT refute what transpired AFTER Georgie hung up. You told the truth there, so I’ll give you that one.
‘The two men did not know each other so what started the fight is on the phone calls.” No, it’s not. Not even close, in fact I have NO idea where you can come to that conclusion. 4th lie.
Score: 4 lies, vs. 1 truth.
I used the word stalking in the form of common usage. Much like “the boy was stalking a deer”. GZ was not charged with stalking, so the legal def. of stalking is of no use here.
lie 2. The girlfriend said Trayvon was running from GZ. GZ even said “shit he’s running” on the phone. This is real evidence.
There is no evidence of an ambush. The evidence will prove or disprove what GZ says. What GZ says is not evidence.
lie 3 The girlfriend says Trayvon was almost to his house seconds before the shooting and said GZ was behind him. Again evidence
The procecuter has a case because he does not believe Trayvon was beating the hell out of GZ for the hell of it. He believes Trayvon had a reason.
lie 4 The girlfiend said “Trayvon was to tired to run and GZ caught him”, again evidence
Alright, look at pretty much everything Dee Dee says. Now look at the evidence that was available to only a handful of people during the first few days after the shooting. That evidence includes, among other things, all of George’s statements and the NEN call. Now compare those two… compare what Dee Dee says to the very early evidence. There are some matches there, but also some strange contradictions that have SOME basis in facts. For instance George and the dispatcher talking about Trayvon being near “mailboxes”, and Dee Dee saying Travyon told her he was by the “mail thing”. So, I’m sure YOU will say that that confirms that Dee Dee WAS getting that info from Travyon. But tell me this: Why on earth would Trayvon say, “Hey Dee Dee, know where I’m at? I’m standing by some mailboxes. Cool, huh?!” But if, instead, the only reason Dee Dee said a thing about the “mail thing” is because George, ON THE CALL TO DISPATCH, said it…. THEN we’ve got a problem. It implies that Dee Dee was COACHED to say certain things, by using evidence that wasn’t yet public. But how can that be?…. Hmm…. does the name Chris Serino ring a bell?
So yeah, in case there’s any doubt, I very much AM saying that a lot of what Dee Dee has said is based on what she was TOLD to say (by Crump et al) after they received ILLEGALLY LEAKED info from Serino.
If Dee Dee was coached the case should be dismissed, end of story. The police should be held accountable. Here is the problem with Dee Dee. GZ said he got out his truck and started walking looking for an address, never ran or followed TM. He also says it took him 4 minutes to walk 120 yards in the rain. Now lets look at the evidence The police call sounds like GZ was running. GZ later says he was following TM (who was running) leading one to believe GZ was running after TM. Later GZ says, call me I will tell you where I am. Leading on to believe he intended to continue looking for TM. The time frame does not add up. GZ could probably explain what what he meant. However Dee Dee tells the exact same story as GZ, except she puts the distance at 310 yards going by TM’s fathers house. This is important because it you ran 100 yards and walked 210 yards it would take you 4 minutes. GZ and Dee Dee put GZ behind and chasing TM in the beginning. GZ hangs up never saying what he is going to do. But Dee Dee takes both men all the way to TM fathers house, then to the point TM was shoot. There are no contradiction between the phone calls. Was Dee Dee coached?????? If Dee Dee’s story stands with no contradiction to any evidence, they will put GZ behind TM. I hope you are wrong however it would not surprise me if your right.
I won’t get into what Dee Dee said about Trayvon and all his movements and locations right now…. it’s getting late, and I’d have to go back and listen to some of her interviews, and I admit that trying to decipher her words/thoughts makes me crazy.
So I’ll just stick with George’s movements. I think it’s much simpler than you suggest.
I think when he said “He’s running”, that Trayvon was just about to pass out of George’s line of sight (between the rows of buildings). And even though George opened the truck door almost immediately, it took him several seconds to close the door and start moving. I believe at that time he started walking quickly, NOT running. If he HAD been in so much of a hurry that he was gonna just jump out and start sprinting, I don’t see why he’d take so long to take those extras several seconds. Anyway, he had only been moving for 3 or 4 seconds when the dispatcher asked if he was following, George said yeah, and was told “We don’t need you to do that.” And then within 10 seconds or so, we can tell by the sounds that George had come to a virtual stop. About that time is when he said, “He ran”… in other words, “He’s gone, I don’t see him anymore.” And for much of the time he continues to talk to the dispatcher, and CLEARLY has no idea where Trayvon is, we can hear the tapping noise. I’m almost certain that is George tapping his (non-working) flashlight on the dog-waste station… which is right at the “T”. I think he stands pretty much right there during most of the rest of his call. And once he hangs up, THEN he continues east on the sidewalk to Retreat View Circle to get an address (which I DO believe he was doing, and I’ll explain why if you want). After that, he turns around and starts retracing his steps, walking back west.
Depending on how long it was between the time the confrontation began and the first 911 call was made, the time between George’s call ending and the start of the confrontation could have been as little as a minute or so. Which is NOT a huge amount of time for George to have walked from the “T”, to the east end of the sidewalk, and back to the “T”… which is where I believe the confrontation began. And I believe that from just a second or two after George said, “He’s running”, to the beginning of that confrontation…. at no time between those two events did George have ANY idea where Travyon was. On the other hand, during at least a part of that time, Trayvon knew exactly where George was.
This would explain the evidence in the GZ phone call, and may very well have been what happened. However there is no evidence that GZ was looking for an address or going to return to his truck. Just because he did not say it on the phone does not mean it ain’t so. It just means there is no direct evidence of it. He does say, he was following TM and he does not know where he (GZ) is going to be when the police get there. It is True, this could fit your story. But it also fits Dee Dee’s story “if true” to the TEE and her story (may) be considered evidence.
Joe Benton has shown up to share with us the latest narrative desperately being spun by the Scheme Team. Every single assertion in his first paragraph is false, and crafted with a single intent.
I am sure that the long time Treepers here can figure it out pretty quickly.
Have at it.
Second wave approaching from the left flank. Droppings sighted.
Yes, more discovery turned over to MOM is due to be released to the public sometime this week or early next, so stand by for more chaff. The intensity of their attempts to reinvent the evidence leads me to believe that the new document dump will include even more exculpatory evidence. The desperation coming from the Scheme Team and their minions is palatable.
(looking around for scooper)
can we discuss something?
Don’t see anything stopping you