When it rains, it pours.
At the same time as Hurricane Ian decided to make life a challenge for Southwest Florida residents, the PayPal controversy erupted that blindsided the Treehouse.
As most of you know PayPal has been the primary processor for financial contributions to the Treehouse to help pay for a wide variety of site costs including server hosting, data processing and container costs, proprietary commenting systems, site engineers, software licensing fees etc.
As it directly relates to our conversation CTH has never had an issue with PayPal, even during our site deplatforming from WordPress/Automatic. However, that said, the initial terms of service changes that PayPal announced, then retracted, that begin November 1st was beyond ridiculous. It is not surprising that everyone was shocked at the proposed change in terms, and many want an alternative.
Moving forward, the critical issue for CTH extends beyond the actual processing of financial support and into the sphere of privacy. One of the reasons CTH costs so much to operate is the foundational stance we take on user engagement and privacy; it’s not something I can ever, or will ever, compromise upon.
Almost all funded websites contract payment and subscription services to third party providers. CTH does not like the security window this approach creates. If we need to switch financial processors, now is the time to use this opportunity to close any security vulnerability.
From the outset of the CTH 2.0 construction we began with the focus of keeping control over all data and site content. I am thankful for your support and the technology team that accepted the challenge two years ago. They worked tirelessly to create a discussion & research site where your participation is as secure as the site itself.
When CTH 2.0 was created there was a parallel emergency beacon created in the event that I was ever directly targeted because of the research content provided. The beacon system contains the ability to quickly crowdfund resources in my defense. However, with the PayPal issue now leading to numerous subscription cancellations, I have asked the tech team behind CTH to see if they can modify the preexisting emergency payment processing system to support the functions that are being handled by PayPal.
Again, the issue is a system that provides locked-down privacy. Not for my privacy, but for the privacy of those who participate and support CTH. The example of the donors to the Canadian Truckers being compromised when the GiveSendGo donor list was made public is an example of what I think about first and foremost. I cannot and will not allow that type of risk, therefore CTH requires stringent proprietary control.
I have been told there is a way to modify an existing payment processing system (provide me an encryption key, and only a transaction id for the contributor) that will eliminate any files, lists or registration identities of CTH contributors. The drawback is: (a) it’s expensive; and (b) I have to accept all legal liability for the transaction. After much forethought, I am going to accept that risk.
As a result, I have given the approval for the tech team to construct a proprietary financial system for CTH, and I anticipate it being completed within about 10 days (+/-) after beta test. Once active it is likely CTH will drop PayPal as a processor and proceed with our own proprietary system. Yes, it would be easier and more convenient to go with a third-party provider; however, speed and convenience is not my overriding priority – privacy is.
Additionally, I continue to remain STEADFAST in the belief that information should be free, open, accessible and transparent with citations for everyone. Everyone should be able to see the source data, review the interpretations and make their own decisions. In this era of information control, I consider CTH the opposite. The truth has no agenda.
I will provide updates and lots of information as soon as the payment processing system is live and tested. I will also share more details once things are ready. I am optimistic we will meet the deadline established to be complete before November 1st.
In the interim you do not have to have a PayPal account to use the PayPal processing system to support CTH – and your support is especially appreciated right now during these simultaneous challenges.
Our assembly is a fellowship. This website is a conversation. You are the important part.
I remain a faithful steward to the integrity of information you have come to expect. I will always work diligently to deserve your fellowship and support.
Love to all,
~ Sundance
I’ve had two (now closed) PP accounts compromised. My bank had to step in to help in both instances. I haven’t even considered using PP since. That’s been 3 years ago.
So Sundance, WHY haven’t you checked in on GabPay? They advertise heavily about PayPal’s shenanigan and are asking people to transfer to them….Just a thought to maybe check into.
I thought that too until I read the above article. The answer is therein.
What happens to the customer data if someone else possesses it?
This.
In the era of data collection, the Canadian Trucker donor issue rings loud to me.
Privacy and data security is paramount.
Yes. Haven’t had my coffee yet, but it’s finally sunk in why CTH needs an inhouse, open-sourced, privacy first system of payment processing. One that CTH alone controls. No third pary, no matter how great they seem at the moment.
I followed every day of the Canadian Trucker convoys and watched in horror at the financial and other punitive actions of the government. Thank you for recognizing the actual situation here and taking steps to protect us. Ok I get it now. Am looking forward to using the new system when it is ready.
Thank you for all you do and I am eager to again donate.
Will the new system accept things like Visa gift cards? I have made it a habit to purchase $100 cards when I make donations to any site or person for the simple reason is they are pretty much untraceable, especially when purchased with cash, then using a VPN when making said contribution. The additional $5 to purchase one of these cards is nothing when it comes to privacy.
OK, maybe a I’m a little more paranoid than most people, but then again, I do Privacy and Security for a living and have seen more crazy things in that role.
Thank you Sundance for your dedication to truth and security!
How do you activate the Visa gift cards? I gave up some time ago because they wanted info in order to activate. I’d love to know how to do it with cash and full anonymity.
I have a fur kid (cat) that needs food only available online not locally. I’ve been hesitating to buy it because I just don’t want to share my info online with my cc etc. Thanks in advance for any tips.
If you buy them in person paying for the card at the register serves as the activation procedure. At least in my experience.
The question isn’t are you paranoid but rather are you paranoid enough?
Not paranoid at all. These are the times we’re living it’s. We have to think smart now.
I regret to say that the theft of my time in time in dealing with credit hacks over the past several years (I stopped counting after eight) has become prohibitive for me, so I no longer donate to sites that cannot be paid through my financial institution’s bill-paying services.
Many conservative sites still do that. I wish more would. Kevin O’Rourke, for example, has provided an address for making donations to his class action suit against Dominion, which has finally reached the Supreme Court. Another is Thomas More Society, which recently stepped in to defend Mark Houck.
Perhaps by some miracle you could pull off something along those lines.
GapPay is a mere skin on a PayPal app. It is PayPal masquerading as a separate entity.
Do not trust!
You know this how?
If you cannot prove it you should retract!
Please note I am not saying you are wrong but until you prove it you are wrong.
Sundance, Thank you for fighting the good fight for us and wearing the armor of God on our behalf against organizations such as paypal.
Two quick points,
1. I agree with prior remarks that Sundance has developed a vastly valuable stand alone business platform should he wish to host other communities .
2. Don’t assume Paypal and Google can’t find your bank accounts not listed with them. The law is not a restriction on their activities, particularly during the tenure of Merrick Garland.
Certainly they can but let us make it as difficult as possible. Make it not worth the effort to go after the little peoples.
YAY!!!
Go Sundance!!
I don’t care if they find me but I don’t want it to be easy.
Many do care, and those that do might be intimidated from donating or participating out of fear. Intimidation is tool to defund and to silence.
How about GABPAY ?
Do any online vendors accept Gabpay? That’s the only reason I use Paypal: I don’t have to give every Tom, Dick, and Harry my credit-card information.
Does no one read the thread – Gabpay was discussed about 5 posts prior
My question was not answered.
See previous comments.
Great to hear, Sundance. I look forward to resuming my monthly contributions on your new private, secure pay vehicle.
All the best to you and yours and the whole SW Florida community for continued recovery from Ian. I and all I know are contributing where we can to organizations that will actually GET HELP to you all.
Kind regards. God bless all here.
AG
I await the new system to resume my support. I apologize for withdrawing my support due to PayPal’s bad intentions – even though they retracted the language – their intent is clear. I apologize to you personally Sundance. I value this sight as my primary Go To for the truth. I am praying that the system can be implented without issue.
I just made a small donation using the credit card portion of the donation request. I then got a thank you from PayPal! I closed that account last week! 🤣
Since I have never trusted PayPal any farther than I can throw a Buick, this is welcome news. Now I can feel safe making a contribution, which I haven’t done up to now.
I have always felt the same way and I look forward to making a contribution without PayPal. I have no fear of my contribution being known by anyone.
I suspect the bottom-line issue is that our corrupt government can and will
arm wrestle/bribe/threaten any entity to provide them with lists of donors,
customers, etc.
Payment processors are always connected to a bank. Doesn’t matter who
one chooses, there is always a bank involved – a processor either has their
own or pays to use a system that 1) authorizes the transaction and takes
the risk the funds will be there at the end of the month (or daily in the case
of large companies) and 2) funds the merchants. A bank facilitates the
funding process both ways. Can’t get away from it.
The Canadian government strong armed TD Bank to provide the list
of donors to the truckers cause. Yes, it could happen here.
My thought is that if Sundance can take the risk so can I. At this point,
let the chips fall where they may.
And, if at some point, Sundance is forced to type on an old IBM Selectric
in his garage, I volunteer to be a runner in the dead of night to deliver
his on the mark research and commentary to subscribers.
Will it come to this? I would not be surprised.
Also, think of the 2008/2009 banking crisis precipitated by banks providing
loans to people who were not qualified financially to pay back those loans.
Does one think the banks did this of their own volition? No, they were
pressured/blackmailed by the feds.
This is how it works.
I was one of those people?
While in the depths of grief, I had to change my life…Somehow?
Going $160,000 into debt was not a good choice.
I thought I could flip the cute cottage but when the schiff hit the fan…
It was all crash and burn for me.
“My thought is that if Sundance can take the risk so can I. At this point, let the chips fall where they may.”
The time is fast approaching, or perhaps already here when every patriot/truth teller/truth seeker/defender of freedom/defender of liberty will have to say, “let the chips fall where they may”.
The time is here.
It wasn’t just TD bank. NOT ONE bank or credit union CEO refused orders to freeze their customer’s accounts. Billions left the country overnight. All trust in Canadian banks was broken that day. I’m still stunned how many Canadians don’t understand how awful this is.
I’ve been wondering when we will revert to handwritten letters. But I learned awhile ago the fed postal service has an armed faction, and combined with their existing investigative arm, letters won’t be secure either. So runners might be the way we communicate. This would be a feature of radical localism (did SD introduce me to that concept?).
I truly believe radical localism will be unavoidable as the way to survive/thrive the next 10-20 years as we shift away from this evil cabal and reinvigorate our constitutional republic.
(Rhetorical question: Am I the only one who uses code in emails and texts to share information with my spouse?)
Thanks to Deplorable JC for the idea of using gift cards for contributions.
Sundance, THANK YOU! I will find a way to support your efforts.
No, myself and all my Rebel Alliance friends communicate in code ever since the 2020 election.
Try Signal for texts. End to end encrypted. And proton mail for email. It’s end to end encrypted to other proton emails.
I think Paypal and the rest of the lunatics on the left have the “hate” thing BACKWARDS. They are the ones doing the hating.
Looks like Paypal is being difficult by cutting off anyone who closed their account from being able to use a credit card to make a donation. I presume that to be the case but IDK for sure. I closed my PP account last week and I don’t want to give them any further information.
When you get the new system set up, I will be looking forward to contributing to it then.
Sundance, I cannot say thank you enough for your tireless efforts on behalf of your readers. May God continue to bless everything you do.
Consider me a Current Accounts Receivable, payable upon your switching.
I wouldn’t touch Woke PayPal with a 30 foot barge pole.
You said it for all of us.
For those suggesting GabPay you must understand that GabPay charges 1.9% plus $.15 for every transaction. If Sundance can work around these fees it will provide more revenue for the site and cut out the middle man.
I tried to delete the above comment but for whatever reason could not. I did so because I had a conversation with the wife who recently retired as CEO and President of a credit union and has a much deeper understanding of how all this works. Transaction fee’s are very complicated and hopefully Sundance’s team will successfully navigate what amounts to a racket.
The costs of credit card processing may seem excessive to some, however, the costs are for services.
Paypal charges a premium to merchants who use the services; in other
words, they make money over and above. However, the monthly and
annual fees for merchants who have very low volume can be cumbersome
and unsustainable. That is where Paypal comes in.
A medium/large company who accepts credit cards for payment would
find PayPal’s fees excessive.
I’d bump up to cover the costs. Building the parallel economy has costs. Freedom isn’t free and occasionally uncomfortable. I’m happy to pay the 1.9% and 15 cent transaction fee if it insures my account won’t be closed due to my political beliefs.
While transaction fee’s will always be a part of the picture it’s just a small part when considering the larger picture in which digital currency will still provide an income stream to banks and all concerned but would do all that we fear regarding our privacy. Considering the data storage in Eagle Mountain Utah that contains every phone call, email and text we send and the collaboration the government and big tech it’s not out of the realm of possibility that such heavy handedness is in our future if not stopped by we the people. What we’re seeing now are trials (like PayPal) to see what people are willing to put up with and/or not aware of as to what’s being attempted.
absolutely
speaking of the parallel economy…Bongino is forever talking about the parallel economy and replacement either exists or are in the works, he says, for every one of these companies, not just social media. I don’t know what replacement he is into for paypal, but he says every day to get out while you can, that there ARE alternatives (big help, aren’t I, since I don’t know what his is…)…but since he mentions paypal by name, he makes it sound like there IS already an alternative.
Now..to find out what it is…and report back…unless someone else does first.
As always, Sundance is ahead of the curve. But, what he faces now is coming to us all. The control of all transactions, controls all aspects, of all of our lives.
Decentralized digital currency (cryptocurrency) is the polar opposite of central bank digital currency.
Here is an overview posted here before. The coming centralization of all transactions by the Federal Reserve
It is my perspective that the PTB let crypto run to observe, to learn, and to plan how to implement their own version, the only legal version, as they will demand.
Sundance, there is something wrong with the paypal access…it keeps asking for a code at the end, which it provides, but fails when you input the code.
I sent another $50. Best information and analysis on the web imo.
GabPay.
Stop whining about Silicon Valley tyranny and do something about it.
Anything that relies on the internet is going to be vulnerable to one degree or another. As a backup I’d go old school by getting a PO Box and encourage money orders. Yes, there’s a higher barrier/friction to contributing but ultimately many people will understand and maybe even want the added privacy protection. Heck, eBay was built on that method of payment so it does work. Just a thought.
I agree, and if I were to send a MO I’d get it at a grocery store type of outfit, not the post office or a bank.
Something along this line of thought makes sense to me as well. Is there a downside?
Hey, just a thought. Is there a generic UPS store type post box where we could send contributions in the form of checks?
I hope my modest contribution helps.
A wave of fear came across me when I read and remembered the Canadian Truckers and the give-send-go issue.
Great, just great. /s
SD: Donated for Ian and will test your new system as soon as you say “Go”.
Thanks for all you do SD, all Admins, back office guys/gals and commenters too .
PayPal instantly becomes PayJerk
never a dull moment Sundance?
Donated using Paypal. That’ll show ’em!
Donation sent. Thanks for all you do, Sundance! God bless you.
Since its inception it has only fattened itself on our labor and enterprise. Now the leash of global governance is pulling hard.
The ” OLD FOLKS ” KNEW
The Aldrich Plan Octopus ( 1912 . USA ) by Alfred Owen Crozier
Much thanks to you, blazing the trail.
You and your loved ones are always included in my prayers.
I prefer to donate with checks so that you receive all of the funds. Do you have a PO Box to send checks?
Thank you, Sundance. One of my biggest concerns has always been big brother and the ever-encroaching influence/power of corpocracy’s will on our freedoms. I know there has been a link to PayPal for donations, but I’ve never donated to this site or any other using payment processors like PayPal, Credit Cards from Citibank, Bank of America, now Chase Bank that have towed the government line against our freedoms e.g. 2nd Amendment, masks/vaccines etc. I will definitely support this site through this new private payment processing system. God Bless you and to all!
I can easily send money. I have before but PayPal gives me pause. Is there another way that I am not aware of?
Thank you for all you do. Just donated a little.
Have you checked out Parallel Economy yet as a payment processor? They share a lot of your principles Sundance and as a youngster might have the flexibility to craft what you want.
If you are on the hook legally, make sure you double/triple check your donations for intruders who would only want you offline even if you are cleared in the long run. Remember, it’s the process, not the end result. Better to refuse a sketchy donation than wind up in crazy land.
Donation given. Keep pounding on the nail Sundance !
Ever consider that maybe a great alternative would be to simply accept personal paper checks sent in a paper envelope? The only liability is the bouncing check – and since the product of CTH is intellectual, there is no lost physical asset if the transaction fails.
Is there no way to send you a personal check? I try in every aspect of personal political advocacy and commentary to avoid making it easy to link my opinions to my financial actions. Personal checks sent by mail with the pay-to line either blank or marked cash make the paper trail stop as a matter of record.
Surely a PO Box, even at a private mailbox site is an effective first level surveillance defense.?
Sundance, please set up a PO Box so we can send checks or money orders we buy with cash.
In my mind, anything electronic is for the birds….and the commies!
my apologies up front, even though i have donated by cc i don’t know if there’s an address i could send a check?.?… or maybe checks aren’t really that apropos any longer, i’m old… 😉
Dan Bongino launched AlignPay – that might be better – certainly no Left Wing censors at that company.
https://alignpay.com/
Sundance – Appreciate your notices re. site changes and your consistent policy of putting Treepers’ P.I. privacy at the top of the priority list, right next to overall site robustness and security.
When you forecast an unplanned budget hit for whatever is required to keep CTH flying safely, just post these notices and Treepers will an$wer the call…..
I think this new proprietary payment system would qualify for an unplanned budget hit. Seems like it would be very costly.
Could be, depending on whether it’s modified from existing code or scratch-built. SD wrote that it’s an existing payment processing system which will be modified and he gets the encryption key. As long as there are no back doors, it should be airtight. Sounds like he’s done a cost analysis and thinks it’s doable. That also means he’s factored in the estimated donation stream based on past figures.
Im looking forward to the rollout.
Appreciate your thorough explanation as I didn’t grasp all this, but it makes sense now. I don’t like to use my cc on-line, except Prime, which hasn’t been a problem, yet. Just this past week I had cc fraud on AmEx and they caught it/declined the charge as the attempt to us it was made. How they calculated it was fraud has made me really wonder…it was a well known company that I don’t use except for a very minor item I couldn’t get on Prime. Tiny charge in June then attempt at fraud last week. Glad SD switching over. I’m amazed at how he can change directions on a dime. Saying he’s a go-getter is an understatement. Always enjoy your comments. Have a nice day.
They have a profile on each users spending patterns.
When a purchase falls too far outside the pattern, they verify the user before approving.
I’ve had them contact me when I was out of state making a “luxury” purchase. I was a bit miffed at first but then realized they were protecting me and their liability $$$.
Remember, SD didn’t change “on a dime”. He’s had this “Plan B” in his back pocket since shortly after CTH was deplatformed. The recent PP “change of policy” they announced and then quickly retracted was the trigger for SD to enact his Plan.
SD isn’t impulsive. He had this gamed out awhile ago. He apparently researched the Big Tech and the Big Banking criminals equally as thoroughly.
We are the beneficiaries of his planning.
In all the years of using them for just about everything, I did and always will rate them as Number 1. No one else ever even came close to their customer service standard.
I was truly heartsick when they succumbed to Larry Fink’s ESG extortion racket and went woke.
The only time I ever felt worse was when Menninger Clinic moved out of Topeka and partnered with Baylor.
When I tried to donate with my credit card (which still goes thru PayPal) I couldn’t because the box to select my country wouldn’t ‘swallow’ (for lack of a better word) my selection of United States, nor would it let me type in the words. Then I couldn’t proceed without filling out the box that it wouldn’t let me fill out.
I’ve heard of people switching from PayPal to GABPAY.com
Just a thought…
Thank you Sundance for looking ahead and making course correction now.
*thumbs up emoji*
Yesterday I closed my paypal account. Upon hitting the Close Account button I got a message telling me that I had to close accounts that had auto payment linked to my account. Huh? Of course paypal was not going to make it easy to do that and did not provide a link to the page to check out what is going on. But I found it. (I’d post instructions to it but can’t remember them.)
Turns out I had about a half dozen merchants set up to auto deduct from paypal which means they can pull money without me getting a txt or email to login with my paypal password to approve a transaction. For me that approval message and then entering my paypal password is critical to make sure nobody is just charging my paypal account.
I recognized most of the six as merchants that I have used and I am pretty good about reviewing the monthly credit card charges where I have linked paypal so I think there has not been fraudulent activity while these merchant accounts have been set up. But I have never wanted that sort of thing and am glad that I found them in my account. So I deleted the six linked accounts. And then was able to Close the paypal account.
I am going to investigate using a prepaid, with cash, card to see what is available.
From what I can figure Paypal’s denial of the policy is simply that it wasn’t supposed to be released to the public – at this time. But somebody wrote it and I doubt it was just one person acting on their own and slipping it on to a web page without anyone else approving it.
If Paypal wants to state that they have fired everyone that was at all involved with writing that policy and publishing it whether mistakenly or not, from the guy that sat at the keyboard typing it up to and including the VP of the department he worked for, I would consider going back to using them. Of course that will never happen, nor I would necessarily just trust them at face value if they did state that without proof.
by the way, like all publicly traded companies the board of directors is easily found by a search.
First time donator. Thanks for all you do and keep us informed once you get this sorted out.
Dave
Sundance have you looked into square up.com?
A question to you…
Why can’t donations be sent via check, cash, wire transfer, cashiers check.. etc… to an attorney and placed in Trust for Sundance and CTH?
I am sure there is trustworthy representation amongst this crowd who can donate time and assist??
If the criminals can use attorneys to send funds for oftentimes nefarious purposes… why can’t we do so for a NOBLE one?
And check into using a Licensed Agent to receive your mail.