Sunday July 12th – Open Thread

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but DELIVER US FROM EVIL.

For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever. Amen †

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52 Responses to Sunday July 12th – Open Thread

  1. Deplorable_Infidel says:

    Baptism and the Lord’s Supper

    By Pastor Cornelius R. Stam

    This writer has often been taken to task for his alleged inconsistency in “eliminating” water baptism from God’s program for today, while holding to the celebration of the Lord’s Supper.

    This criticism is based upon the unscriptural assumption that baptism and the Lord’s Supper belong together in Scripture, and in God’s program for the present dispensation.

    Well do we remember how a startling misquotation of Colossians 2:14 first led us to a study of this subject. A Bible teacher of some note had “quoted” the passage thus: “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, that was against us, leaving two, baptism and the Lord’s Supper”!

    This is pure—and unscriptural—tradition, for the fact is that the two are never linked together in the Scriptures, and certainly not as ordinances for the Body of Christ. True Bereans will search the Scriptures as to these facts, and be forever done with the notion that baptism and the Lord’s Supper belong together in the program of God.

    Moreover, there are definite distinctions and even contrasts between the two.

    Water baptism was an Old Testament ordinance.
    The Lord’s Supper is a New Testament celebration.

    Water baptism, like all ordinances, was “imposed.”
    The Lord’s Supper never was imposed.

    Water baptism was required for salvation.
    The Lord’s Supper, never.

    Water baptism was associated with our Lord’s manifestation to Israel.
    The Lord’s Supper is associated with our Lord’s rejection and absence.

    Water baptism denotes an unfinished work.
    The Lord’s Supper speaks of the finished work of Christ.

    Water baptism was a single act.
    The Lord’s Supper is celebrated again and again.

    Water baptism was not included in Paul’s special commission.
    The Lord’s Supper was included in Paul’s special commission.

    https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/baptism-and-the-lords-supper/

    Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    Liked by 1 person

    • TMonroe says:

      “Water baptism was an Old Testament ordinance.
      The Lord’s Supper is a New Testament celebration.”

      “Water baptism, like all ordinances, was “imposed.” The Lord’s Supper never was imposed.”

      It appears the quoted word “imposed” is pointing to Hebrews 9:8-10: “By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle still having a standing, which is a symbol for the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, not being able to make perfect in regard to conscience the one worshiping, consisting only in foods and drinks and various washings—ordinances of the flesh being imposed until the time of reformation.”

      This concept of water baptism being an Old Testament ordinance that was connected to remission of sins came up a couple months back, which called for further Scriptural context to distinguish the ceremonial washings from what came later, such as the baptisms administered by Paul to Gentiles either personally or in his presence (cf. Acts 16:27-34, Acts 18:6-11, 1 Cor. 1:10-17):

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/01/friday-may-1st-open-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-8148165

      There are many instructions connected with sacrifices and ceremonies associated with sin, which included unintentional sin (cf. Numbers 15:22-29). In Numbers 8 and 19, the issue is ceremonial impurity / uncleanness. It’s notable that in examining the immediate context of the verse cited above, the unclean person is to ‘bathe in water’, (cf. Numbers 19:19) as part of the process. But should this ceremony be deemed a “water baptism” akin to the New Testament acts and associated with forgiveness from sins in the manner suggested in the article — especially when there were sacrifices specifically associated with that (and themselves of insufficient saving power purely as a physical act, “for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4)?

      Going back to the purposes of the water purification in the cited verse, the issues being addressed were those who touched a dead body (cf. Numbers 19:11), those who entered a tent with a dead body and those already there (verse 14), or those otherwise coming in contact with a dead body, human bone, or grave (verse 16). It’s worthwhile to ask how contacting a grave or dead body or being in a tent where someone died is connected with personal sin, let alone with the forgiveness / remission of them?

      Let us remember the blameless actions of One who was “born under the law” (cf. Gal. 4:4) yet remained “without sin” (cf. Hebrews 4:15) and “holy, innocent, undefiled” (cf. Hebrews 7:26) in His earthly ministry:

      Luke 7:14 — “Then He went up and touched the coffin, and those carrying it stood still. “Young man,” He said, “I tell you, get up!””

      Mark 5:41 — “Taking the child by the hand, He said to her, “Talitha kum!” (which translated means, “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”).”

      John 11:38 — “So Jesus, being deeply moved in Himself again, comes to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying against it.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • TMonroe says:

        “Water baptism was not included in Paul’s special commission.
        The Lord’s Supper was included in Paul’s special commission.”

        Let’s look at what Paul indicates he had conveyed to the Corinthians previously — having baptizing some of the largely Gentile congregation per 1 Cor. 1 and Acts 18: “For I received from the Lord that which also I delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and having given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Likewise also the cup after having supped, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you might drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you may eat this bread and may drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He should come” (1 Cor. 11:23-26).

        Paul concluded: “If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you might not come together for judgment; and I will set in order the other things as soon as I might come” (cf. 1 Cor. 11:34). This passage came right after Paul’s thoughts for them on head coverings related to prayer and prophecy and before his thoughts in subsequent chapters on spiritual gifts such as tongues and healing.

        Given those teachings / instructions and what Paul had demonstrated about baptism and had spoken about them matter of factly earlier in the letter, whether the Corinthians would have seen the dividing line between what was and wasn’t “included in Paul’s special commission” is elusive.

        What may have resonated with them was hearing that Jesus said to do this in memory of Him, with no distinction conveyed about Christ’s audience at the time and potential dispensational implications in the retelling, but nevertheless discerned as something to be celebrated — especially as Paul appears to seamlessly go from the “do this” part in verses 24 and 25 to “you” actually choosing to do it in verse 26. Perhaps that spoke to them as strongly as Paul’s words and actions about baptism in letters and in person.

        Liked by 1 person

        • TMonroe says:

          “Water baptism was required for salvation. The Lord’s Supper, never.”

          The focus is once again on not only the place of baptism today but its salvific significance in a certain period of time. This bring to mind the various sacrifices made related to sin under the old covenant, including on the day of atonement: “This is to be a permanent statute for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month, you shall humble yourselvese and not do any work—whether the native or the foreigner who resides among you— because on this day atonement will be made for you to cleanse you, and you will be clean from all your sins before the LORD” (Leviticus 16:29-30).

          And yet, the fact remained that “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Thus, we see a physical act that in and of itself was not remitting sins, yet was connected to the purpose of making the children of Israel clean from all their sins before the LORD. As has been made clear in Scripture, the state of one’s heart appears to be the primary matter:

          “With what shall I come before the LORD when I bow before the God on high? Should I come to Him with burnt offerings, with year-old calves? Would the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?” (Micah 6:6-8).

          In like manner, would it be the physical act of “water baptism” that would take away the sins of those to whom Peter (Acts 2) and Paul (Acts 19) spoke or rather, grace through faith (cf. Acts 15:7-11, Romans 3-4, Eph. 2:8-9), with our salvation a matter of the spiritual and of the heart? As the Lord said, “It is the Spirit giving life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63a).

          And while spiritual components are the key (bringing to mind the thief on the cross who was not likely to receive physical baptism before his death), physical action was still something that followed and was to be observed for a purpose, from the laws in post-Sinai Old Testament times and circumcision from the time of the patriarchs to physical baptism.

          Liked by 2 people

    • yucki says:

      Vlad Tepes posted this Mike Doran tweet:

      Like

  2. Garrison Hall says:

    Sometimes the best songs are about places that are familiar, or once were familiar but merit being remembered . . . or maybe, just maybe, might be familiar even if we’ve never actually been there. In the record producing biz musicians sometimes rather cynically talk about looking for that ever elusive “hook” that creates just the right emotional tug on people’s hearts. I don’t think Lyle Lovett would be all that comfortable sitting in an office somewhere talking to a record producer about whether is song has a hook. If you love music and listen enough to his, you realize that he doesn’t look for hooks for a good reason. Lyle Lovett’s songs always tell stories—the whole song is the “hook”.

    The La Salle hotel’s restaurant with it’s plate of Texas enchiladas and the smiling waitress doesn’t exist anymore but what makes the “Front Porch Song” work is that its not so much about a place as about an experience. Today I was in Austin to have a late afternoon lunch with some old friends. We’ve known each other a long time and are as much like family as friends. Since we’re Texans we tend to gravitate to places like Lyle’s restaurant. Old restaurants like this are timeless celebrations—the La Salle may be gone, but another is just down the street or a couple of blocks over. And the people who go there understand them for what they are, often unadorned but perfect nonetheless. We were there talking for three hours. It was hot outside and nobody minded some old guys spending some time inside where it was cool. The waitress smiled at us as she kept our bucket sized glasses of iced-tea filled.

    Liked by 7 people

  3. citizen817 says:

    Liked by 7 people

  4. citizen817 says:

    Liked by 4 people

  5. Dora says:

    Liked by 3 people

  6. rah says:

    I Imagine most of you have heard about comet NEOWISE gracing our skies. Here is an article on the comet from Dr. Spencer with an excellent time lapse. Bottom line is that if you know where and when to look and have reasonably clear and dark skies with a view to the NE you should be able to see it with your naked eye.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/11/morning-soon-to-be-evening-comet-neowise-timelapse/

    Roy Spencer is a climate scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. He has a PhD in meteorology and has been a prime driver working with NASA on advancing technology to enable satellites to accurately measure temperature by remote sensing, He works under Dr. Christy and they together to produce the UAH satellite global temperature data. Both men have testified before congress on “climate change” multiple times.

    Both men are class acts. Both men are hated by those pushing the catastrophic human caused global warming scam. Rush Limbaugh calls Roy the official EIB climatologist. Roy is what those of us that have been paying attention to the climate wars would call a “luke warmer”. He believes that human activity is causing a some of warming but not nearly to the extent the alarmists are claiming. Like most of the best people that work in natural science fields, Roy has complementary interests, like photography and astronomy, and thus the article.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Dora says:

    This is so sad.

    Liked by 6 people

    • jbt says:

      The ignorant tools bashing Fr. Junipero Serra don’t realize that if history hadn’t happened the way it did, they wouldn’t be here.
      Aside from that, we need to wait for investigators to determine whether the fire was due to the restoration.

      Like

  8. Dora says:

    Liked by 4 people

  9. old sneakers says:

    Liked by 8 people

  10. duchess01 says:

    Verse of the Day for Sunday, July 12, 2020

    “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”
    James 1:17 (KJV)

    Liked by 3 people

  11. Sepp says:

    . . . but deliver us from the Evil One.

    Liked by 6 people

  12. alonzo1956 says:

    Is John Kerry’s son in law an Iranian American Dr.? Did the son of Iran’s foreign minister Zarif attend Kerry’s daughters wedding? I can’t tell if it is fake news or not, however if it is accurate, it gives new meaning to Logan Act violations regarding John Kerry. It also is a HUGE conflict of interest for Kerry while he acted on OUR behalf.

    Like

  13. duchess01 says:

    “Choosing Relaxation Over Stress” | July 12, 2020

    Like

  14. Sepp says:

    To Ponder

    Let me ponder on the miraculous healing of blind Bartimæus (Mark 10: 46):

    1. How Bartimæus prayed to the Lord: ‘Have mercy on me!’
    2. How the word of the Lord can give sight to my blind soul, if I do but pray.

    From “The Prologue from Ohrid” by Saint Nikolai (Serbian-born Bishop who reposed in the USA and was a former prisoner at Dachau).

    Today is June 29th on the traditional Calendar of the Orthodox Christian Church and July 12th on the civil or commercial calendar.

    Feast of the Holy, Glorious, and All-Laudable Apostles, Peter and Paul

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  15. Tango268 says:

    I posted this on Discus and was promptly shadow banned. So I am posting here for Sundance’s benefit, in case you have not already noticed this link:

    A half hour of internet sleuthing this morning and I found this: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/58017. Maisie Haft is the daughter of writer Lisa Birnbach and film producer Steven Haft (Dead Poets Society). Haft served on the board of TerraMar, Ghislaine Maxwell’s non-profit, until she shut it down following Epstein’s arrest. Has Haft been interviewed by the FBI about his connections to known and suspected pedophiles?

    Like

    • wondering999 says:

      Is Terramar is still going? This link lists Steven Haft as part of the Board, but does not list Ghislaine Maxwell. I don’t object to the basic premise of the foundation, and I’ve heard of lawless activities taking place on the high seas outside of jurisdiction of any laws, which is concerning. On the other hand, many times criminals join worthy organizations in order to control them. Maxwell’s father died at sea under strange circumstances. This interest would make sense in her case, aside from pedophila.
      https://web.archive.org/web/20190425191028/http://theterramarproject.org/about/
      “The High Seas are unregulated which means 45% of the planet lies outside of any single country’s jurisdiction. The result has been overfishing, increased marine debris, and unregulated activity on an unprecedented scale….”

      Like

    • wondering999 says:

      “Dead Poets Society” is a movie that bothered me. The main character (played sympathetically by the last Robin Williams) order his classroom of students to rip a page out of a textbook that he doesn’t like.

      The teacher doesn’t ask his classroom of adolescent men for a robust discussion of why he doesn’t like the lesson on the page; he just wants to censor the page by ordering the kids under his control to rip the page out of the book!!

      Especially for a teacher, it was horrifying behavior. I didn’t like the movie because of that scene. You’d think library organizations. which claim to oppose bookburning and censorship. would have demonstrated against “Dead Poets Society” because of that episode , but — no — if nobody in authority points the conflict out to them, they don’t see it I guess

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  16. Sepp says:

    Feast of the Holy, Glorious, and All-Laudable Apostles, Peter and Paul

    June 29th Church / July 12th civil

    Dismissal Hymn. Tone IV.
    “O foremost of the apostles and teachers of the world, intercede with the Master of all, that He grant peace to the world and great mercy to our souls.”

    Kontakion. Tone II.
    “Thou hast taken to Thyself, O Lord, the steadfast and God-proclaiming heralds, the chief apostles, for the enjoyment of Thy blessings and for repose; for Thou hast accepted their labors and death as above every burnt offering, O Thou Who alone knowest the secrets of the hearts.”

    Megalynarion.
    “Let us laud the first heralds of the Word: Peter, the all-honored chief apostle among the twelve, and Paul, the fiery preacher of Christ’s dispensation; for, crowned with wreaths of glory, they intercede in our behalf.

    Like

  17. thrawlbrauna says:

    Now don’t get me wrong.. I don’t trust the Russian Gov any more than ours.. but their people are just like ours.. Did anyone ever look at and break it all down from the Russian people’s perspective. They basically played the left from both sides and in doing so exposed China and all of them down to the last snews troll. (Concord lawsuit seem out of character to anyone else..?) I would not be surprised to one day see this headline. “The end of American Liberalism. How the Russian people played the US left against itself.” (In a last ditch effort to save the world from China..) But in all seriousness, Take care and god speed in all of your journeys!.

    Like

  18. George says:

    Drove through a middle-class neighborhood in central North Carolina this morning and saw a Black Lives Matter sign in front of a house next to the road. Immediately thought “Bolshevik Leninist Marxist.” A few moments later “Black Lies Matter” came to mind but that would be considered “racist” this day and time, especially coming from a Christian, Caucasian, Heterosexual, Southern Male … so please pardon my obvious insensitivity. Am hoping to live long enough to see an to all of this communist/muslim evil. God’s Blessings and Godspeed to You all.

    Liked by 3 people

  19. alonzo1956 says:

    Does everybody have a years worth of food, cash, precious metals and the means to protect them? Goya sells rice and beans that will help you work towards that goal. Be prepared because the road ahead is likely to get a little bumpy. BUY AMERICAN! BUY GOYA! IT MATTERS!

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Deplorable_Vespucciland says:

    Reports out of San Diego say that a Navy assault ship LHD 6 USS Bon-Homme Richard is on fire after an onboard explosion this morning. The helicopter carrier was in its home port for routine maintenance. Initial data shows “numerous sailors injured.” Pray for them.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. San Diego…
    11 injured after explosion and fire breaks out on USS Bonhomme Richard at Naval Base San Diego.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/fire-uss-bonhomme-richard-naval-base-san-diego

    Like

  22. F.D.R. in Hell says:

    Liked by 1 person

  23. andeclain says:

    lilbirdee12’s prayer:

    Our Heavenly Father, Your children come to you tonight to ask for healing and peace throughout our country so that we may return to being One Nation Under God. Guide us to be leaders in Your Kingdom, spreading Your Love and Salvation to all. Forgive us our sins and deliver us from evil.

    Lord, we ask for a blanket of protection over all our troops and law enforcement who serve to defend and protect us. Bless our representatives with the strength and wisdom they need to achieve the path You have chosen for us.

    Please place Your Guardian Angels of Protection around Donald Trump and Mike Pence and their families as they seek to lead America back to You. Also, we pray for Angels to protect and support our Sundance as he works for justice and peace.

    Grant us patience, Lord, as the evil ones try to anger us and cause us to fall.
    Spread blessings over Israel and Netanyahu.

    We humbly ask that You please comfort those who are grieving and in pain.
    Thank you Father, for Your Love and the gift of Life.

    In Jesus name, we pray. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. andeclain says:

    A prayer for Justice Kavanaugh and Gen. Flynn:

    Prayer to St. Michael

    St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle;
    be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
    May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
    and do you, O prince of the heavenly host,
    by the power of God,
    thrust into hell Satan and the other evil spirits
    who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls.

    In Jesus name, we pray. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

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