The Day After – Waco Gang Shooting Investigation Begins – Who Shot Whom?…

Nine dead, at least 18 wounded.  Perhaps 20+ people shot; but by who??

(Via LA Times) […] On Monday, police worked the scene, collecting evidence and diagramming the site. Every bullet casing and every blood spot will be mapped and examined. More than 100 motorcycles and 50 to 75 other vehicles were expected to be inspected and held as evidence in the far-reaching investigation that will probably take time to sort out. Swanton and others who saw the inside of the restaurant said it is littered with shell casings and pools of blood.

waco 6

Among the unanswered questions is who fired the fatal shots that killed nine. Along with the bikers, police fired shots when the melee erupted inside the Twin Peaks restaurant and spilled onto an outdoor patio and then the parking lot.

The first shots were fired in the restaurant, Swanton said. “We had wounded inside, we had people stabbed and we had people beaten,” he told reporters.

Police, who had been out in force, acted in seconds, Swanton said. He said 18 Waco police officers and four Texas Department of Public Safety officers responded to the shooting, some of them off-duty, but most in uniform because “we wanted our presence to be known.”

[…]  A lawyer and a biker leader disputed the police presentation, saying the event was a publicly scheduled meeting of the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents, a grass-roots gathering to discuss legislative and safety issues that taken place regularly across the state for years without any violence, the men say.

“They happen about every other month,” said William A. Smith, a Dallas-based attorney who did not attend the meeting but represents bikers. He said Sunday’s shooting was the first instance of violence he’d heard of happening in 18 years of attending such meetings across the state.

“We’re all shocked by the other group that came in to intentionally disrupt the meeting,” Smith said of the Cossacks.

A top member of the Bandidos agreed. The Bandido leader, who declined to give his name and identified himself as “Gimmi Jimmy,” was scheduled to speak at the meeting about legislative issues brought up at the annual National Coalition of Motorcyclists convention he has just attended in Denver.

waco 7

[…] Motorcycle gang members wear vests with top and bottom patches, or “rockers,” indicating their membership and location, which become an issue in turf wars.

“The Cossacks have been trying to become a little more independent,” Cook said. Instead of wearing patches showing their city and county, they “recently started wearing Texas bottom rockers. Well, that’s a direct challenge to the Bandidos which claim Texas as a territory.”

“That’s like slapping somebody in the face” in the biker world, Cook said. (read more)

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56 Responses to The Day After – Waco Gang Shooting Investigation Begins – Who Shot Whom?…

  1. auscitizenmom says:

    Hmmm. I’m still suspicious about outside involvement.

    Liked by 1 person

    • BertDilbert says:

      Looks like the cops are involved in murder and are covering it up. Initial reports were 10 cops and then it became 18 man SWAT team. Why lie? Because there was no team. If you have an actual team you know how many players are on it. That implies that there were rouge cops there that they stuffed on the “team”.

      The defense lawyer is gonna do what? He is gonna tear that up. Cops lose the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because they shot their credibility in a cover up. Reasonable doubt leaves the bikers walking with no convictions and the only ones left to take the blame are the cops.

      Like

      • psconserned says:

        Probably the largest mass shooting in recent history. police were outside waiting and watching, protecting and serving a bunch of outlaw motorcycle gangs. there are tons of witness testimony and forensic / ballistic evidence to go through and you want to condemn the cops. how about a little patience.

        Like

        • BertDilbert says:

          If the cops cannot get the basic facts of the story straight then yeah I am going to blame the cops. If they cannot get basic facts right, how are they going to do the more complicated things?

          Like

        • sundance says:

          I am one to extend the benefit to LEO in most, if not all, matters.

          However, saying nothing while doing an initial investigation is expected. Annoying but expected.

          Saying self-serving information is uncomfortable. But ok, everyone has an angle – I guess.

          Saying factually false statements, intentionally, and now I’ve got a problem….

          Liked by 1 person

          • BertDilbert says:

            Here is my gut, the “off duty” officers were inside consuming alcohol and got dirty in the process and ended up operating a firearm under the influence. I would be more interested in the BAC of the “off duty” officers than the ballistics at this point. I am assuming the difference in numbers on the scene is trying to pull in the off duty officers and put them on for legal issues.

            Like

            • Jett Black says:

              Off duty officers being brought under the umbrella is a very reasonable possibility. Also possible cross-jurisdiction involvement–i.e., sheriffs, local popo, maybe some bears. Each one officially involved knows who/how many of their people are there, but there may have been no central command with a total. Not great, but not nefarious.

              My guess is there’s quite a bit of interior and maybe some exterior surveillance video, maybe some popo cruiser dash cams that’ll eventually come to light or at least be analyzed by LE to sort things out thoroughly and accurately. Attempting to make judgments before that or any significant objective evidence becomes available is irresponsible.

              So, too early to make any judgments, other than “breastaurants” are disgusting, exploitative BS that no human being should ever patronize.

              Like

    • smiley says:

      practice ?

      Like

  2. James F says:

    Well, well, well. Not exclusively white guys after all. Looks like Shaun King and the other daily kos racists jumped to conclusions and prejudiced stereotypes yet again.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. dizzymissl says:

    Is there any bystander video?

    Liked by 1 person

  4. BobNoxious says:

    I said this in another at the end of the last thread but I’ll add it here since this will now see more traffic- listen to Steve Cook; he knows his business when it comes to these groups. Some of you might recognize him from the old Gangland documentaries on Outlaw Bike Gangs. He is a no nonsense expert on Outlaw bikers. I know lawyers that worked with him when he was involved w/ busting up the Galloping Goose MC and they all speak highly of him.

    If he says this started as the result of the Bandidos taking exception to the Cossacks encroaching on their turf then I’m inclined to agree with him until evidence turns up that proves otherwise. That said, the fact that some officers may have been off duty and out of uniform potentially raises some unique self defense claims in relation to any charges related to gunfire exchanges b/w some bikers and cops. Finally, I feel sorry for the attorneys and clerks at the courthouse- managing the charging paperwork for the 170 people arrested on Saturday will be a nightmare.

    Liked by 3 people

    • manickernel says:

      What he said about the rockers, and Cossacks trying to become more independent, sounds logical. Although I would guess it was more a matter of trying to push the top dog aside. Surprised the gangs have become so corporate with the COC organization in states as well, not that I have kept up with it a lot.

      Gives a whole new meaning to “hostile takeover” in the business sense.

      Like

      • Dan Tharp says:

        The Cossacks are NOT members of the COC. they have always been independent, as even the chapters in most clubs appear to be (in my experience, wore a target for 5 years).
        In the biker world, this is kind of like a citizen militia walking onto the house floor and opening fire. Someone was trying to make a statement, looks like the cops shot them…
        published today.. “it appears they want to be outlaws”…….

        Like

  5. kinthenorthwest says:

    What gets me is that 190 were arrested…yet how many in the riots and lootings.
    Strange..

    Liked by 7 people

  6. Benton Greeves says:

    White lives matter! Why no outcry?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. TexasRanger says:

    Twin Peaks Corporate Reportedly is Revoking The Franchise of The Waco TP Restaurant.!

    Liked by 1 person

    • James F says:

      They need to have their next brawl in Florida where you can shoot at your enemy, not get arrested for days and when they finally get around to arresting you the bail is a paltry 30 grand.

      But maybe that low bail only applies if your intended murder victim happens to be George Zimmerman.

      Liked by 4 people

    • lovely says:

      I wonder if that is true. I imagine they have video (unreleased of the melee) I imagine there will be all sorts of charges even independent of the murders, chains, brass knuckles, and other weapon charges.

      Looks like Texas treats murderers as murderers.

      Like

    • BertDilbert says:

      I heard the 1 million bail was so that the bikers did not retaliate against the cops. What did the cops do that would make them want to retaliate? Raises questions.

      Like

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        Bikers are a weird breed…They will have their fights, and REALLY wild parties.
        However when the police arrive; some will flee, but those left will just do what Law Enforcement asks.

        Like

        • Dan Tharp says:

          The beef isn’t with the cops, why fight ’em. Just doing their job…say nothing and act like an angel in their presence…they have radios, way more brothers, a state army they can call up, and rattle guns.
          There are good cops and bad cops, good politicians and bad politicians, good bikers and bad bikers, good outlaws and bad outlaws…..most of your laws are new anyway.

          Liked by 2 people

    • jetstream says:

      The Daily Mail sensationalizes everything. And, if they are identifying a person in a picture and say “on left” it is 90% time the person “on right.” Entertaining, but take their ‘news’ with a grain of salt.

      The LA Times article linked in Sundance’s post said the bails were set anywhere from $2,000 to $1 million:

      “We still have 100 people waiting to be booked,” Lisa Foster, a booking technician at the McLennan County jail, said in a phone interview Monday afternoon. Booking happens before suspects make their first court appearances.

      Of the bikers who have already appeared in court Monday, judges have set their bonds as low as $2,000 all the way to $1 million, Foster said, adding that she didn’t have more detailed information about the bikers’ bonds.

      “It’s going to be very slow going,” Foster said of the process.

      Like

  8. sundance says:

    I’m seriously withholding judgment on this until we find out how many of the 27 people shot were actually shot by police.

    The entire event as described by the police spox is sketchy.

    Liked by 3 people

    • lovely says:

      Did I hear right in the latest press conference that the police are still saying that everyone was shot in the restaurant ? That I just don’t buy. And the off duty officer who I saw sure looked scruffy. I do wonder why we haven’t seen any pedestrian videos.

      Like

      • BertDilbert says:

        “Waco police said Monday that they had 18 uniformed SWAT officers and four state agents with marked cars stationed outside the Twin Peaks restaurant before the shooting erupted.

        That’s higher than the original count of 10 officers that police had provided after the shooting.

        All those officers — which included a Waco rookie and an assistant chief — were involved in the gunfight”

        The cop reporting is inconsistent and makes them look guilty. First by saying everyone who was killed was in the restaurant and then lying about the number of officers present. If they say 18 swat were there and 18 were involved in the gunfight then we have nine dead it is easy to conclude that the body count is primarily due to the cops, not biker to biker.

        Liked by 1 person

        • lovely says:

          I have been busy and today was my first day to really sit down read and listen. I thought at first the LE claimed all the shootings occurred in the restaurant, then they changed that to some bikers were shot outside, but during the last press conference I received a phone call which distracted me, but I thought the LE said all the bikers were shot in the the restaurant but a few made it outside to die?

          If I heard correctly, I don’t buy it.

          If the LE number for police on the scene is “changing” that doesn’t look good.

          Off to read and try and find the press conference from today.

          I agree that something isn’t right.

          Like

          • BertDilbert says:

            Yeah how do you under count your SWAT team on scene by 80%? Are SWAT given special protection under the law? I think I better start reading prison planet to get what is going on the other side of the story or see what Alex Jones is saying. Some things just cannot be spun off due to the “fog of war”.

            Like

        • John Galt says:

          “Waco police said Monday that they had 18 uniformed SWAT officers and four state agents with marked cars stationed outside the Twin Peaks restaurant before the shooting erupted.

          That’s higher than the original count of 10 officers that police had provided after the shooting.”

          There’s also the “off-duty” cops that just happened to be shopping at the scene of the shooting.

          “Swanton said off-duty officers shopping at the outdoor mall jumped in to help during the firefight.”

          Like

      • sundance says:

        At first the police spox said all “shooting victims” were inside the building, and dragged to the parking lot. Then the description evolved somewhat to a fight, then shooting, inside that traveled outside….

        Now the primary indicators are that NO shooting happened inside at all, and anyone shot inside was actually shot from a bullet traveling from outside the building INTO the building.

        Like I said much earlier. The sniff that something is not right is growing stronger…

        The POLICE have a vested interest in selling a very specific version of events.

        As we learn more it seems as if the police had the entire building surrounded with heavily armed SWAT officers, and took the fish in a barrel approach.

        It will be interesting to see if the police or “bike gang” can even identify a biker who fired a shot in any direction.

        Like

    • psconserned says:

      police comments sketchy? yes, withholding judgment on a mountain of forensic evidence and eyewitness testimony to process…sounds like a good idea and probably the understatement of the year.

      Like

    • justabitincorrigible says:

      Absolutely. Law enforcement wants to keep the rivalry going among the clubs. Divide and conquer has been the name of the game for decades. No regard for collateral damage. I would bet that if in fact this was triggered inside then it was most likely done by an agent or an informant place by one of the agencies.

      Like

  9. TexasRanger says:

    The History and Violence of American Motorcycle Gangs


    CNN Video Report

    Like

  10. TexasRanger says:

    News Interview With Jimmy Graves A Bandido MC Leader and COC State Chairman.

    Texas COC – Confederation Of Clubs

    Police Fear More Armed Gang Members Heading to Waco


    CNN Video Interview and Report

    Like

  11. Millwright says:

    From some of the info I’ve seen coming out it seems likely the genesis of this was a ‘turf’ dispute. Bike clubs are ‘funny’ that way. Mix ‘territoriality drives’ with alcohol ( and possibly drugs ? ) in a tense social situation, combine generous amounts of type A personalities and weapons and don’t expect a ladies tea atmosphere.

    Like

  12. “Gimme” Jimmy can be seen beginning about 34:38. This was a Texas State COC meeting prior to riding to the State Capital last January –>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSdg6IIiFQc

    Interview w/COC member–> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01U6Ek47vBA

    Like

  13. CoffeeBreak says:

    My antennae started smoking when the cop had to go and drag a business into this mess. A restaurant doesn’t do police work. It can cancel some events if it’s deemed necessary. But there was no precedent to do so. For government to punish this business is an omen. It doesn’t bode well for innocent Americans when the government has the means to stack the deck against you and the media are as spineless and retarded as ever.

    I don’t personally know anyone that belongs to an MC. I do know of instances that happened in my neck of the woods that turned out not well for the taxpayer but in favor of members of an MC. One case that went on for years and ended in federal court determined that the MC members were provoked by off duty cops, they defended themselves then when five other agencies arrived the MC members were grievously injured and jailed. Instead of some people getting fired, there was a lot of glad-handing before the public and promotions.

    I saw a lot of red flags in yesterdays news videos regarding this sad event.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. oldiadguy says:

    “My antennae started smoking when the cop had to go and drag a business into this mess. A restaurant doesn’t do police work. It can cancel some events if it’s deemed necessary. But there was no precedent to do so. For government to punish this business is an omen.”

    Twin Peaks is a restaurant/bar that has liquor licenses normally issued by both city and state agencies. I suspect it is the same in Waco Texas. With those licenses, come certain responsibilities, like keeping a quiet place. We were required to list the liquor licenses in police reports of assaults or disturbances that occurred in bars. This would often result in the licensee being suspended for a couple of days if it was found that the bar contributed to the incident. If the licensee was a repeat offender, the license would be revoked.

    Twin Peaks were encouraging the bikers to come to their establishment. The police apparently had concerns about this policy and from what I’ve read in the Daily Mail the parent corporation has also discussed this issue with them. The parent corporation has revoked the franchise of the Waco Twin Peaks, so apparently the pc feels the WTP actions contributed to what occurred.

    Take Care

    Like

    • Angel Martin says:

      agree completely. the restaurant cannot hold “Biker nights” when they know that bikers from rival gangs will be there, and then claim “nothing to do with us” when all hell breaks loose.

      Like

  15. John Galt says:

    “There were so many rounds fired from bad-guy weapons here, it is amazing that innocent civilians were not injured here,” said Sergeant Swanton”

    OK, let’s have a shots fired count. How many shots were fired by cops and how many shots were fired by bikers? Undercover / (wink) “off-duty” cops don’t count as bikers.

    Like

    • justabitincorrigible says:

      It’s also amazing the crime scene looks so clean and pristine given almost 200 bikers were brawling and having a good old fashioned shootout. I’ve seen more collateral damage in a simple cat fight. Amazing lack of injuries for those not downed also. Where are the busted noses, the bleeding knuckles and the torn vests? Everyone looks so clean and tidy. Did they bring in models after the ruckus for the photo ops?

      Regarding the restaurant? You all do realize this was a Confederation of Clubs meet right? They tend to lobby against the sort of discrimination the LEOS wanted the business to engage in. Quite often legal counsel is present at the meeting in an advisory capacity for getting things done or even as guest speakers. Not a good thing for the business to decide at the last minute to retract the reservation the COC made.

      Like

  16. joshua says:

    less Americans were killed by Waco Police than American soldiers killed in Afghanistan by being shot down by American Stinger Missiles provided to Al Queda by Hilliary Dept of State and CIA under Obama administration Operation Zero Footprint…..and that is why Air Support in the Middle East has become DRONES because Obama does not want it known that our Airplanes are shot down by OUR OWN MISSILES given to the jihadis…….focus folks…the black riots, police outrages, the unemployment/jobs changes, the stock market rises, the candidates running for 2016 potus, the Congressional wrangling….all just to keep up from focusing on the traitors and incompetent who swore to protect and defend out nation and people.

    Like

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