Thought….

Choosing to Deny the existence of evil in the world does not protect you from it

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145 Responses to Thought….

  1. F.D.R. in Hell says:

    It works for Christian Scientists. 🙂

    (Mary Baker Eddy is going to kick my ass at breakfast tomorrow for that remark)

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    • Sir, you are in big trouble. I’m guessing Hell is loaded with evil deniers! I’d skip breakfast if I were you. 🙂

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      • Solaratov says:

        It probably depends on whether they were the “pie in the sky” types who just won’t believe that evil is a choice and always expect the best and happiest ending; or whether they rationalize, condone and accept evil as the best choice.

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  2. This is what I call a valid fucking point.

    Except I don’t say fucking, because that would be cursing. Which is gross and wrong.

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  3. GFCandinthatorder says:

    I dare say you open the door to it more when you choose (and you do choose freely) not to believe in it

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  4. ZurichMike says:

    Part of the dumbing down of western civilization is the moral relativism that can soberly suggest that someone like Hitler was not an evil dictator, but just a misunderstood politician. This has spilled over into faith, too. I remember when I was confirmed in the Catholic Church, we were called upon to put on the armor of Christ and be His soliders in the fight against evil by proclaiming and being examples of stalwart living in His name. Right after, the Catholic Church, also influenced by moral relativism (Society of Jesus, call your office), and its infinite loop of depraved thinking called political correctness, thought this too militaristic, too simplistic, and — gee, golly, gosh — couldn’t we all just be friends with a group hug and aren’t all faiths really the same after all?

    I used to avoid evil, pretend it wasn’t so bad as portrayed, and in the words of the academic geeks who slave at the altar of negation, just a tired patriarchal socio-political construct that oppresses us.

    I know better now. Actually, Sister Rose, who taught me first grade cathecism, also knew, and I just didn’t pay attention, I guess. Young people. They know all the answers, right?

    Evil exists, and demons of hell exist, prowling about to turn our free will away from God, and making us feel proud for having done so.

    What to do? Pray. Ask your guardian angel to guard you. Ask Archangel Michael to fight for you. Ask the Blessed Mother to protect you. Ask Christ for a shield of faith. Pray some more. Don’t be afraid to call out the demonic that pervades our civilization, stare it down, and send it shrieking back to the abyss of nothingness that awaits it. You want to feel empowered? Try doing that.

    Start small. Do not accept evil behavior, evil words, or evil deeds from those around you. This means you may have to give up what you thought were “good” friends. On the other hand, offer kinds words, prayers, and a way out of the darkness: “I know you’re having a rough time. I’ll say a little prayer to your guardian angel for help — maybe you should, too.”

    My favorite author in the German language is Adalbert Stifter, an Austrian. His writing reflects that life is mistakenly defined by great hallmarks of civilization: cities, wars, conquests, diseases, revolutions. He thought that it was the daily routine of Christian goodness that defined life, and all else was an attempt to disrupt it. Lots of room for thought on that, but for me the lesson is that it can be overwhelming in an age where we are surrounded by information, but no wisdom; ideas, but no vision; satisfaction, but no joy; choices, but no integrity — but that the simple routine of Christ-like living keeps Light in the world, and drives more than one demon back to hell.

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    • Well said. I like Stifter’s viewpoint. The real battles are fought in the hearts of believers every day. “But when the Son of Man returns, will he find any faith in the world?”

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    • Shalini says:

      You know, it pains me so much when one of you mention the fall of Society of Jesus in the western hemisphere. It’s very personal to me, not in the least because my dad, both of my brothers and one of my sisters studied in Jesuit institutions. It’s because if it weren’t for St. Francis Xavier, I wouldn’t be a Christian today. In a billion people population, to know that you were born a Christian, chosen to know Him personally is still overwhelming to me no matter how many times I think of it! And it’s surprising that the Jesuits in the West teach moral relativism because here they not only reject moral relativism they make sure we don’t fall into a trap in misunderstanding the universalism the Church teaches.

      With a thousand different gods surrounding us in India, they have taught us to openly declare that Jesus Christ is the only God and there is salvation only through Him. For that particular reason they have been persecuted a lot in my country. Even recently I have read about Jesuit priests being paraded naked and then murdered in the northern states. My parents have been very specific in teaching us not to paint all priests with the same brush and like our Blessed Mother has been asking of us in her visions, we need to pray for them as the Satan has targeted them with a ferocity because of the sacrifices they have made over the years. We need to pray for our clergy as the people of faith are ones who are first attacked in the spiritual attack the evil one wages.

      Another thing I have learnt from my mom. Christianity isn’t about being nice to each other. Exactly what you were saying about in saying it’s made too simplistic by expecting us all to just ‘be friends’. No. Christianity is about being good to each other which entails NOT being nice to each other. You can tell all this touchy feely crap to your friends but not help them one bit by not telling them the truth. Truth hurts. Also, it’s the only guide to the Savior. Jesus wasn’t particularly nice to the Canaanite women, was He? Or the Pharisees. But He was good to them. He meant to save them by speaking the truth. Unfortunately, the church cares more about everyone getting along in this world than serving the Lord by telling what would lead them to live with us in next world in His glorious presence.

      I have had many bitter fights with my Christian friends when they suggest “Hey! Let’s go that to temple with our friends.” Going to the temple in itself, not really problem. Even receiving their prasadhas isn’t much of a problem if you think about what St. Paul has said (though I am not comfortable in doing that because it does mislead people here.). But praying, actually praying to Hindu gods. That’s where I draw the line. I have, of course been called uptight and judgemental and a bigot. Well, I’d rather be all that than the person Christ looks at and asks, “Why haven’t you done anything to tell truth to your friends?”. Also, I’d rather they get upset and angry with me and being lost to me than them being lost to Christ. Sure, I am not holding their hands and singing ‘Hand in hand we stand” but I know in my heart that’s my calling. And thankfully for me, my friends , though angry with me at first, have always gotten around. Even my Hindu friends know my monotheism doesn’t mean I hate them. Weird, how truth, sometimes considered to be a friendship repellant, always show you who can be really considered good friends.

      I know I often sound as if I preaching. I am just agreeing with you by sharing my perspective. Though I agree that I have difficulty in being succinct.

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      • Menagerie says:

        You have no difficulty in communicating, and if by succinct you mean keeping your comments short, you may be thinking too hard. Not all ideas can be put into a sentence or two. What you said above was something we need to be reminded of, because we instinctively don’t want to offend people. You are correct, that is not necessarily being good to them. We need to make the extra effort to encourage growth and strength where we can. Also, you are correct in that it is necessary to do it in such a way that you are not preaching at people or judging them continually or criticizing everything. We all know people who seem to think they are the world’s conscience, and that is very tiring, We tune them out.

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      • zmalfoy says:

        What Managerie said. And, also, thank you for saying good things about the Jesuits. I too attended a Jesuit University (and a High-school with Jesuit ties). Though I was a wayward girl at the time, they had a huge influence on my thinking.

        They are indeed having difficulty here in the Western world. I know lay people who work for them, and from what we can see, there’s something of a cold war happening right now between the older, more liberal generations, and the younger, more orthodox priests coming up through the ranks. It’s hard on many of the younger fellas, as the older refuse to retire, refuse to “cycle” the generations through, and keep their death grip on the decision-making positions while the younger are continually silenced and sent for more social justice work in Central America. . .

        Sadly, the older are still the public face and voice of the order, and if you aren’t involved with them daily (or know people who are), you never realise that the Society is still fighting for its soul, it isn’t over yet, the embers are not yet entirely quenched . . . They have much need of prayer in their behalf.

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      • cjmartel says:

        Finally a breath of fresh air!! Someone who understands the notion that to be good does not mean being nice!! All this PC shit that has been shoved down our throats for so long has engendered this type of thinking, and the sad part is that this thinking has permeated most of our main line churches.
        Thank you Shalini for your illustration, Evil is definitely here and it is getting stronger, I fear not, I have the Lord, and we have each other!! Well said!!

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      • Truly wonderful thoughts, Shalini. Please don’t ever hold back!

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    • MRM says:

      I’m late to this post, but so glad I stopped by. As always, ZurichMike – you’ve provided a lot to think about.. thanks!

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  5. zmalfoy says:

    A great point, one I have been meditating on. . .

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  6. Shalini says:

    There’s this Charles Baudelaire quote, of course.

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.

    I am not very familiar with him or his work. I only know because my dad would always tell me this and add on “and by association evil.”

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    • AFinch says:

      That reminds me of this from C.S. Lewis: “There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”

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  7. cjmartel says:

    I think it was the movie RITE with Anthony Hopkins where the priest was asked the question, “do you believe in Satan”? the priest said no and the response was “you should, he believes in you”. An awesome illustration, at least for those of us who understand that evil is indeed real and it is lurking quite freely in the USA.
    I have been doing research, I belong to Oathkeepers and I was looking up US history, I am absolutely amazed at, 1., how brilliant our founding fathers really were, and 2., how MUCH Christianity played a role in our government. The more I researched America, the more I eneded up researching the bible, talk about a win/win!!
    Satan wants to destroy this country, and for the most part he is suceeding, primarily because people no longer believe in God, so how could they possibly believe Satan exists? If anyone wants to refute what I just typed, I have one thing to say, 53+ million babies murdered in their mother’s wombs!

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  8. Evil exists.

    It moves, much like demons do, in thunder hordes trying to overwhelm victims.

    It preys.

    It stalks.

    It enjoys the challenge of the hunt.

    Many people mistakenly believe if they ignore what they witness they will be spared. The opposite is true. You cannot fight evil with complacency or ignorance. You must be righteous in the face of it and fight back with the strength of a loving God supporting you.

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  9. Coyote says:

    “Choosing to Deny the existence of evil in the world does not protect you from it.”

    I’ve also considered that denying and even acknowledging the evil in your OWN existence does not always protect you from it.

    This is a point I’ve pondered for a long time. Trust me. I’ve had plenty of brain numbing time while crouched in the sand and rocks contemplating this very thing.

    I’m already wet and muddy. Corrupted. Bloody. Dirty.
    I’m already going to hell. I know I am.
    Who better to use what I already am, to fight the thing I’ve become? Who better to understand and circumvent the massively predatory natures of other unchained animals?
    There’s no redemption for my kind. There just isn’t. Even if I were to beg. It’s not even worth trying at this point. Some dirt doesn’t wash out.
    Some people have done (and continue to do) what I’ve done to make sure the people who don’t want, deserve or desire to become what I’ve become to keep living their lives on a wholesome level.

    To fight, one must become an animal of the worst kind. To live through that kind of fighting…
    well, you are stained with a nastiness that the last vestiges of your own humanity and civility don’t wish on anyone else. Life and the living look different after such things happen. I don’t know how else to explain it. I don’t know anyone who has or anyone who can or is willing to.

    Think of it this way. You save your worst shirts for rags to be used in the garage to clean up gasoline, oil and grease. Then you throw it away. Why? Because you don’t do that to good shirts. You wouldn’t want to sacrifice a good shirt to clean up a mess.

    Some people are here on this planet to clean up a mess…and then…

    This is why, in one way, I’m voting for Newt.
    We just have to keep a watchful eye on him.
    And keep his chains on.

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    • stellap says:

      I’m going to post what I just did on the Open Thread:

      Photobucket

      This is true to a point. Gods spirit also enters in and gives us the Grace to feed on” whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on those things. Phi. 4:8.

      And add that there is no sin that Jesus Christ cannot wash away. You just have to trust and to ask.

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      • Coyote says:

        You’ve reinforced my point.

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        • MRM says:

          Coyote, one as flawed as you say you are could not bring the sunlight and blessings you bring to this tree. “By their fruits shall ye know them”

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          • MRM says:

            and, perhaps “flawed” was the wrong word (flawed that I am)… but whatever word you would substitute…. hopeless, lost… I don’t know.. I would use the word “refined” as in, having gone through fire.

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            • Coyote says:

              HUH????
              Have you lost your ever-lovin’ feckin’ mind? You’ve got me a little confused here, MRM. But, no worries. I’m good. I’ll deal with my own crap. I willfully made my decisions. They aren’t anyone else’s burden, nor are they of anyone else’s consequence. They belong to me, and I’ll deal with them.

              Meanwhile, I shouldn’t have compared Newt to the old shirt rag, because that would make Romney the “good shirt”. I’m just saying there are people better suited to do a job than others. Romney ain’t one to be even so much as the park’s doggie bomb pile picker-upper. It’s which one of these two wolves we need to feed. Face it, Newt is as every bit of predatory that Romney is. That’s what kind of person gets attracted to a political career, my guess. They’ll both pay dearly for it, too. I don’t think there’s redemption for types (mine included) who WILLFULLY chose and accept to do something of a nature that flies in the face of wholesome living values. But, if a living is to be made at something that’s to be done…well, there it is.
              The quandary is how we have to chain him down, if we can even do that. My money is still on the Newt. If that national decision becomes Newt, if we’ve made yet another mistake, that dirt won’t wash out. We’ll have an entirely larger and newer mess to contend with.

              But, I want things to be solved…fixed. Permanently. I know they aren’t, ever are, nor can they be. Not for any length of time when it comes to politics. That’s my own conceptual block. It’s fading, however, for politics.

              I would say that Newt has had his dealings, dirty down dog dealings…which would make him good for the job if we want him on the conservative’s team. The very job which requires someone who has been down in the nasty to know how to clean up the mess. He’s got the knowledge of how the DC slime machine works and can push the sludge out of the way. Hell, he has already been dirty, right?
              WE just have to make sure he doesn’t stray from those goals…we gotta keep his chain on so he doesn’t bite us too bad. Face it, we are dealing with a sordid type who can change face on any given subject, whether we foresee it or not. WE WANT him there because WE THINK we see (and we WANT TO see) an ability for him to clean this mess up. Can he? Are we at odds with Newt’s reality?

              To tie this with the title of the thread:
              But, we see his flaws. It just might not be enough to protect us against him…if he turns evil on us. Because then, we know the length of his usefulness. He’ll be tossed like a dirty rag if the establishment changes his tunes on us. Then we’ll be back to square one.

              A pile of rags, and another bloody corrupted mess.

              But, it’s which wolf we feed. Hope. Change. In politics, it’s never “Promise”.

              So much for getting metaphysical on politics and religious on political figures.

              I think that went rather well…like a burning bag-o-crap at the front door on Halloween.

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        • Bullshit, Coyote. You’re wrong. Stella might have said it a little too sugar-coated for your tastes, but she was right all the same. Jesus ain’t no no sissy savior. Why do you think he purposely chose a prostitute to accompany his mother to his tomb, or an idiot fisherman (sorry St. Pete) to lead His whole Church on Earth? Why did he choose to die in the most disgusting, violent, traumatizing way possible? Because he was showing us EXACTLY what this love of his was like. He was saying in words writ large, “THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD LOVE.” None of this blood. None of the killing. None of the sin matters. He’s bigger than all of it, and there’s nothing he can’t heal. He came especially for the ones with injured souls and bodies, like us. It’s the comfortable people, like the politicians who use up soldiers and throw them away like rags that have no hope. They just don’t know it yet.

          Don’t lose hope, my friend. You are the one he came for, and the one he’s coming back for.

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          • As a sidenote, Panch, I’ve heard those same words in my head before. I was diagnosed with PTSD about 20 years ago, but was never treated because I was afraid of losing my security clearance and my job. There were entire years where I never really slept, but only caught a doze here or there. But the very worst thing was believing, as you do, that I would never be whole again. Never be able to see “life and the living” the same again because of the evil I’d seen, or the evil that was in me. But I was wrong. I was healed by surrendering myself into his hands, and he healed me so thoroughly, and I knew such joy after that, that I couldn’t get through a mass without tears flowing down my face during the hymns.

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            • Shalini says:

              What Grunt said. But I want to add something to it, if I may.

              I don’t know your pain, your scars, your trauma, much less understand them. In a sense, I don’t think I am quite worthy to tell you this simply because in the 28 years of my life I’ve never questioned or doubted God once in my life. It sounds rather silly when I put it that way but I have never doubted Him because I’ve had it easy. There’s no way in hell I would have survived without doubts if I had gone through what so many people have gone through in their lives.

              Nevertheless, I am still going to have at it because sometimes one has to (In other words, I am stupid enough not to). Here’s the thing: We are talking about the tricks the devil plays. This is one of those. Making us believe that our sins are bigger than God’s love. I don’t mean to be flippant but every time I hear that I can only imagine God lifting His metaphorical eyebrow and thinking to Himself, “Really?” before saying out aloud, “Try me.” Satan wants us to believe him but too bad for him we have David, Peter, Paul, Dismas, that adulteress who’s name I don’t know and so many more, all telling us otherwise. God gave us a chance. Why don’t you give Him a chance?

              I have to say I like your analogy about rags and good shirts. So true. Also, so human. Good thing for us God doesn’t think the way we do. It was the most pristine, most beautiful, richest of all Kingly robes which was used to mop up the mess we have made. Christ was made to look inhuman, much less the Son of God that He is, when the last of the tortures, because of our sins, was dealt upon Him. But He still is THE most beautiful and majestic of all Kings.

              I am sorry if I crossed a line. It wasn’t meant to be “You’ve suffered but…”. It is meant to be “You’ve suffered and hence…”. God has hope in you, dear sir, even though you don’t keep any for yourself. And because of that I’ll keep the faith and hope for your sake as well, till the day you can claim it yourself.

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            • And you, my darling Grunt.

              I’ma hug you now.

              (((HUG)))

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          • Coyote says:

            oh crap. you too?

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  10. Coyote says:

    THIS is going to be a loooong night…

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      • Coyote says:

        Poofie, you (and the rest of you doilies) better go to bed.
        This is going to take me longer than I had expected, because I don’t need you lugnuts confusing anything I write. I did not realize that you all had arranged this cutzie little intervention.
        But, it’s ok. It’s ok.
        All you frilly valentines need to get your beauty sleep.

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        • Menagerie says:

          You have given us a great gift with your presence. We are attempting, in our bumbling way, to repay it. St Paul says it very eloquently. And remember, prior to being chosen by God to do His work, St. Paul had a nasty little habit of persecuting the Christians. We cannot all be teachers or painters or garbage collectors. We have to have our warriors too, and St. Paul was quite the warrior – once against God’s Church, then later passionately for it. If you think you are not worthy, please read Paul’s description of his own worthiness. For myself, I not only offer up prayers for you and your brothers, I give thanks that you are out there, between me and death. Always it comes first to men like you, before it threatens me. Do you not realize that your pain, your doubts, they are symptoms of your salvation? If you had no soul left, you would not be having these thoughts. You would not care.

          12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body, which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our unseemly members come to have more abundant seemliness, 24 whereas our seemly members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.

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  11. stellap says:

    Now I’m crying, like a big wuss, and I have to go to work. I love all of you, and Coyote, you are a blessing.

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  12. Coyote says:

    Opinions
    It’s always been said that if you want an honest and well thought out opinion, ask a cowboy or a soldier. Chances are, they’ve had plenty of time to think of one.
    I’ve been both, and I definitely have an opinion. Mostly, because I’ve had twice the amount of time to think. I’ve also had twice the time to mess it up when I knew better.

    Final judgment dictates the soul’s final coordinates. It’s like an “expert” calling himself an expert without the input of his clients; without that reference, the “self-proclaimed” expert is none other than a blowhard. Same with someone claiming to know that he/she is going to Heaven without that stamped judgment in hand.
    It’s just hot air. They just won’t know until that journey is being made. Telling everyone now, is absolutely foolhardy and absurd. We are all sinners. We are all going to Hell. Few actions will change that. In my mind, saying “sorry” just won’t cut the mustard. If you’ve broken one of the Ten Commandments, you have some recalculating to do. If you’ve broken many of them…you’ve multiplied your downward outcome dramatically.

    Balance
    God made us in his image, correct? What’s to say that he too, keeps tabulation on my deeds? He’s got to base his decision on something, correct? If my misdeeds outnumber my good, well, I have a hot future in store…with long storms of complete misery.
    That’s the deal.
    If you do well, you are allowed behind the Pearly Gates.
    If you are evil, you get cast into hell.
    That’s it.
    It’s simple.
    No confusion there.
    It’s based on simple reward/punishment for deeds done.
    Fatalistic? Perhaps. But, it’s what I believe.
    But that balance between Good & Evil will ever persist, and I keep it in mind.
    Perfectly? Not even close.

    Corruption and Moral Bankruptcy
    Let’s take one modern example: Bernie Madoff. He swindled millions, yet he made millions for not only himself and his family, but his investors…before his system crashed.
    If this balance were to be measured, how would it look?
    Bernie made a few people rich and many more broke. It caused hundreds of his investors to lose that which they not only entrusted him with but also their life savings that may have been made under honorable pretense.
    For a ridiculous example, a strict accountant might look at it and say “Well, X amount of dollars came in…Y amount of dollars went out to the benefit of investors…Y outweighs X, therefore Bernie isn’t as much of a criminal as society thinks.” We really don’t use this method, though, do we? But we see evidence of it in our political system all too often.
    God, on the other hand, would look at it and base judgment on the Ten Commandments: Thou Shall Not Steal.
    Whuuups.
    Laws of Man vs Ten Commandments. But, aren’t the two intertwined?
    Sure.
    To which is man to be ultimately judged?
    Both, in my mind…and simultaneously. But, we don’t. I don’t.
    Assuming Bernie was to repent in prison and say all that is necessary, to merely appease his suddenly beleaguered conscience…does it count? All his investors are still out of the sacrifice, hard work and life savings they put in…but ol’ Bernie is off running spiritually free …he, in effect, just claimed moral bankruptcy in essence. He’s off the hook. No compunction. Bernie stole someone else’s potential for sustenance.
    So, with that balance now removed, what’s to keep man behaving well towards his fellow companions…other people who share his world, rely on his trust?
    I’ll answer that. Nothing.

    Ah…but forgiveness. You must forgive! I should. But how do I feed my family with forgiveness as a substitute for food, the very thing I could have purchased with the very money stolen, the very potential for sustenance I had earned?
    Ah…but money isn’t everything! Nope. But neither is hunger, misery or poverty…try eating those. Money is trade, a component of trust. If someone is morally bankrupt, where is the trust? We, in this modern society, require that honest mode of trade…Trust. The same goes for life, and all the other remaining Commandments. Punishment for misdeeds is paramount. Rule of Law, natural or man made, all arguably intertwined…it just has to be there. Claiming bankruptcy does nothing to wipe a slate clean when it comes to morals or ethics. Forgiving oneself of such is nothing more than blithely and habitually excusing oneself after committing a heinous crime and repeating that crime again elsewhere. It has been bastardized to the point that few these days, are willing to make or take corrective actions to keep from repeating the mistakes, over and over again. Many, intentionally. Yet, they repent in Church, in court, on podiums, in public…
    But, the end result? The error is still there.
    The RESULTS are still there…the destruction of wholesome human values.
    It’s the encroachment of the predatory over the wholesome and docile.
    It’s nature. I am supposedly a member of a highly civilized species…I know these things…and yet…? It is that very burden that reminds me that I need to fix my deeds.

    Church
    So we are all sinners. We go to church. We pray. For hope. For each other. For forgiveness. Against evil. We dump money into the offering. Some have witnessed the conspicuous flash of a Rolex on the wrist of the hand of someone making the gesture of offering. What is that? Where was the sweat? The REAL sacrifice? Yes, many work VERY hard to make that money to offer, and some for the Rolex…my preference is to offer in sweat. Blood and sweat equity. It’s easy to throw money. Notice that more and more, fewer people have actually worked at a Houses For Humanity build…but even MORE show up for the presentation of the keys when the press is there? What are they doing to actually lend a hand UP? I’ll answer that. VERY few are the ones doing the actual work. And yet, the sycophants rave in front of the cameras and the press, while the sweaty and sunburned workers (of all races, colors and creeds and ethnicities) take up the back with faces blurred or out of focus. Inconsequential cogs in the whole scheme of the work. Ah…but that’s your pride wanting recognition! Ha…no. I don’t want my face shown. I’m wondering about those who do for something they didn’t do. This is MY choice, however…and I know He’s keeping track.

    What’s Due?
    Remember school? Those endless exams and failing grades? Keep that in mind. I’ll come back to it.
    Remember those Ten Commandments? Yeah. I’ve broken more than one in my life, several during well into the age of understanding. I’ll come back to this in a bit.

    One type or set of epic failures can be expressed as those when a person KNOWINGLY partakes in an activity that is EXPRESSLY against not only the laws of man, but also the Ten Commandments. It’s even worse when one makes a living breaking those sets of those very laws…a professional thief, con artist, murderer, or any other sordid activity. It’s even worse if he chooses that line of work because he finds no other enjoyment by comparison. This transcends the boundaries of material wealth and money. Way deeper.
    I use money as an example because of it’s mathematical ease to tabulate.

    What’s one to do if it’s at the behest of the very nation of families he’s sworn to protect?
    Ah…that conflict of Laws of Man vs. the Ten Commandments. Which outranks the other? Everyone has their belief system here…to which they must, if they choose, redeem themselves if they don’t want to end up morally bankrupt. I just happen to feel that my GPA is rather low in this aspect, as well as others. I’ve failed to keep up with my studies to pass my moral exams, and my GPA (God Points Average) is too low. I know that in order to redeem myself, I must outbalance my bad deeds with even better ones to tip that scale. It isn’t up to me to tell everyone that I’m going to heaven, but going to Hell is the default because going to Heaven isn’t a given. You don’t get a trophy for just showing up for life. Doing nothing to contribute to society while sitting quietly in your room or cubicle saying to yourself “Well, I’m not hurting anyone”, doesn’t get you off the hook, either. Besides, I may have really messed up on one or two exams…and guess what? This life we are living presently? It isn’t a practice exam type life. This is it…and I’ve been living my life as a half-assed practice exam for way too long. Things happen in people’s lives that alter their entire outlook…and SNAP! Something snaps them out of their careless ways and they REALLY begin to look at the bottom line. Mine’s in the red. I owe. Big time. If I don’t make up that balance well into the black, it’s safe to say I’m headed across the river Styx to spend an eternity in hell. Well, I don’t want to particularly go there. IF I’m lucky and don’t die tomorrow, I’ll still have time to maybe redeem myself. But, in the meantime, I’ve got some work to do with equal or more sweat and blood equity, because anything less is just too easy for what I’ve done and it simply isn’t appropriate. Some how, I don’t think that showing up for final inspection with a zero sum will do it, either.
    I have to figure God keeps a balance spreadsheet, just in the same manner an accountant does, but not in dollars. He just doesn’t exactly have to file 1099s, but He knows. He’s not jacking around. I just can’t think that He grades on a curve, either. If that were the case, he’d end up letting drug cartel kingpins in, because, after all…a kingpin may have built a church in his home country for a small town that grows his coca leaves, etc, etc, right?…because, you know…the kingpin helped all those townsfolk with jobs and a way to support their families…at the cost of the well being of another family in another country. But, what do I know? Maybe God does. I can’t say. I’m probably projecting my own values elsewhere…maybe even where they don’t belong, perhaps. I don’t know. I have to concentrate on my balance. My balance is what I’m personally responsible for.

    This is something I think about. Balance. Moral Bankruptcy. Moral Compass. I may be zero balance today, but it doesn’t mean I am morally debt free. I know I’m not.

    The Moral Market
    With business, politics, military and religion, there are rules.
    Rules of Engagement, business ethics, political doctrine…etc etc.
    They range from what I’ll term the “White Market” where everyone abides by a set of rules and everyone understands them. No one cheats or goes for an underhanded approach. The rules of law are followed to the letter and spirit, willingly and emphatically.
    Then, we have the “Grey Market” where rules are bent. The rules aren’t exactly broken, but the rule of the law isn’t followed to the letter, but they are reluctantly and loosely followed to the “spirit of the law”.
    Then, we have the “Black Market” where the rules are not only bent, but also broken. They are knowingly broken and the laws have been outright ignored.

    Some people have traversed these markets, following what they want…passing into and out of them at will, depending on what they deem beneficial to them.

    I have. Knowingly. Whichever one seemed to cause me the least trouble at the time would be the one I used. That causes problems on a personal level. It blurs the distinction after awhile. The self-delusion creates a fog, a haze that helps erase the lines of distinction. It’s either good or bad.
    God doesn’t exactly accept Gray Market goods. I have to think he’d raise an eyebrow. We all know that he does not accept Black Market goods. This is where I know I have to relinquish my Black Market goods and my Grey Market goods.

    Think of our politicians…and there stands ol’ Newt. What market do you think he’s worked in most of his life? Maybe he’s worked in the shadows of Grey for a long time?
    Who better to fix this mess? But, we need to understand what we are asking.

    No, I don’t feel sorry for ol’ Newt, or any of our politicians. They’ve chosen their profession under their own volition.

    I’m not telling you anything you don’t already inherently know or have heard in some sermon across countless churches around the world. I’m also opening a religious can of worms here with this. You all also know that I’m on no higher moral ground than you…in fact, I’m under water at the moment. You may not say that I’m all wet behind the ears, either. I know what I’ve done, the deeds I’ve done. I’m not sharing; it’s none of your business. I think I know what I have to do. I don’t need anyone’s instructions, reassurance or “thumbs up” or the “like” button for acceptance. I sure don’t need pity, sorrow, condolences, empathy or sympathy, either. I’m man enough to know what needs doing if I’m to get to my destination of choice. I do not need any other to point that direction for me. Its called personal responsibility and dealing with the consequences of my actions. Those actions were of my own free will. By my choice.
    In the meantime, I’m going to Hell. IF I’m lucky and get my GPA up, way up…I won’t!
    But THAT, is simply NOT my choice, it’s above my pay grade and rank.

    I don’t get to make that final decision.
    Neither do you.

    Like

    • Menagerie says:

      Clearly you have issued a hands off and I truly respect that. Except for one detail that you have really wrong. You can never do enough in the positive column to balance the scales. None of us can. God is simply incompatible with sin, any sin, even one. You cannot change that. It was done for you. The only thing left is to accept it or reject it. I also know you know that, which means you don’t want to acknowledge it and you are throwing yourself into a smoke screen. Hands off now, Pancho. We only meant the best.

      Like

    • Coyote, you are not wrong, but neither are you fully right. None of us are.

      We are each born with the exact same set of flaws, the same propensity for selfish behavior. “propensity”… It is, in it’s purest sense, what seperates us from all other carbon based life forms. Because we also posess the capacity to choose to be selfless.

      Everything has a soul, and everything has a purpose. But what other occupier of this relm do you know of that can intentionally act without regard for self? Perhaps one exists, but I am unaware of such, much like I am unaware of most things profound.

      We ‘skin beings’ actually posess the capacity to choose extinction as a course of life. I would highly recommend reading the book “A Mutant Message Down Under” which explains the real life choice of native “Real People” to cease existence.

      At the same time we are no greater than, nor less than, the trees and the stars, yet we have every right to be here. Right here. Following the natural laws of the farm.

      It was a loving and considering God that made our soul and gave us the capacity to reflect upon ourselves and our choices. Think about that. For in such a distinction comes a remarkable divergence from all other creatures. We are the only animal which posesses the characteristic of ‘regret’. In giving us this point of distinction, God has layed upon our feet what we call “freewill”. Simultaneously He has instructed us in the character of forgiveness, for without ‘regret’ there is no need for forgiveness.

      We err, we stumble, we flaw, we strive and we fall short. It is the natural way of things; and hence we need a way to recover. If God in his infinite wisdom did not grant us the power of his absolution without condition we would not be worthy of freewill, for the only perfection ever known is in the construct of God himself.

      It is why he sent his son, in our form, to teach us and provide an example of purpose that would fulfill a desire He, and He alone, placed within us.

      Whether or not you or I understand the reasons for things, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. For it is us that are dependent on Him, not vice-versa.

      Always.

      Like

  13. Coyote,
    I don’t know if I can shed some “Light” here for you or not. It seems to me that you have your mind pretty set. I just want to address a couple of things that I see a little differently.

    Same with someone claiming to know that he/she is going to Heaven without that stamped judgment in hand.(absloute fool I agree)
    It’s just hot air. They just won’t know until that journey is being made. Telling everyone now, is absolutely foolhardy and absurd. We are all sinners. We are all going to Hell.*****(this is a very untrue statement and I am not sure what you are refering to with this remark. None of US deserve Heaven of achieve it by our own works. Perfection is something we can’t even imagine without first being very close to God. But this statement would make Jesus’s dying on the cross irrelevant and that is not true. Actions we take ourselves very much make a difference. Contrition is a big part of it. We still don’t come to God by our contrition but it brings God’s Graces to us to do better. Remember the vineyard workers where the laborers who came in the late hour enjoyed the masters reward even as the first hours worker. That is the mercifulness of God not achieved by man. But without mans action he will do nothing)******** Few actions will change that. In my mind, saying “sorry” just won’t cut the mustard. If you’ve broken one of the Ten Commandments, you have some recalculating to do. If you’ve broken many of them *****(Remember the parable of forgiveness? 70 times 7 shall you forgive. The Jesus does not preach what He would not practice on His own. God continually forgives us our sins, we just have to fight them and the temptation. Some of us will fight certain sins our entire lives and yet we are sorry for them and we ask for help but we are of human nature and we are going to fall over and over again. But yet God loves us anyway.)***********…you’ve multiplied your downward outcome dramatically.

    If my misdeeds outnumber my good, well, I have a hot future in store ***if this were true then we would merit salvation on our own and that is not true. Did God give His Son to the world for naught? Your thinking and the way you perception is is that it was a waste. Jesus came for the sinner and not the upright remember. There is sometthing so significant that “He would leave the 99 and go in serch of the 1” that really moves me deeply. Why? Because I am a great sinner and in Him I find hope. I within myself am hopeless without God. Me, I would just screw it up as I have done so many times and continue to do in my life.

    Laws of Man vs Ten Commandments. But, aren’t the two intertwined? Sure.
    Mans laws are never iuntertwined in my book. Why? Because if you have God’s law in your heart, as St. Paul says, you don’t need or are above mans laws. There is no disrespect here. We all must give unto ceasar what is ceasar’s but what it means is that God’s law in your heart would give you the eyes and wisdow to do what is right in any situation without mans law.

    But how do I feed my family with forgiveness as a substitute for food, the very thing I could have purchased with the very money stolen, the very potential for sustenance I had earned?***************This is where Faith and Trust comes in and I do not say these things lightly. If you have decided to follow God then you must trust in His Goodness. Seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be open to you. I have ten children and I can tell you right now that this is probably the hardest thing to do in my life. Trust God!! Yeah really trusut Him that He is present and working in my life and that He knows what is good for me and my soul and because of His great love He allows me to go through many sufferings so that I can attain salvation and concur the sin in my life. I have gone through personal hell here on earth ( i am sure you have also from the sound of it) and I was at an all time low in my life when I almost lost my baby girl. She was only 2 and ruptured her appendix and was suppose to die. I was beside myself and angry because I didn’t think I deserved (or my little girl, or my family) to go through this horrific suffering. I was wrong! I was angry at God for a couple of years after that and it grew like a sickness on me. I became downright ugly inside, burning with a deep misunderstanding of God’s Love for me and my family. I went through many more years of suffering before I surrendered my hate to God. Thank God for all the prayers my family said for me. Truth was I had become a monster inside of me. Faith and Trust is what God wants from us and most of mankind can’t even fathom what faith or trust is anymore. We have insurance policies for that and welfare and suirplus bank accounts for emergencies (which is not wrong in itself) which we rely on ourselves and forget how to trust God and in His goodness and kindness. God is a parent, so think about how youwould treat you own child and God is so perfect we can’t even comprehend His Love for us.***************

    It is that very burden that reminds me that I need to fix my deeds***********it is this statement here that gives me hope. You are reminded because of your Love of God. If you were not reminded you would be past the point of caring and in complete darkness. So we listen to that little voice that constantly reminds us of the horrors in the world and of our own failures. That is a Blessing and a Burden of Love that we share as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. A cross that we can help each other out on, even in this blog, and continue to fight the battles that we must.******

    Church*******You are right, of course you are, on many of these things. But what matters in the end? God and what He sees in our hearts. It is so easy to get depressed about what God has given us the “Light” to see. Yes we do not come to that kind of light on our own. But what we do with the “Light” is another thing. Can we put it under a bushell? No! We mustn’t of we will be accountable for that also. The world has nothing to offer me, nothing! But yet I have loved ones here who need my guidance and for me to be a father also. This will get us to Heaven if we continue walking the path.*************

    I owe. Big time. If I don’t make up that balance well into the black***********Are we back to achieving our own way to Heaven? There is only one sin that is unforgivable and that is a sin against the Holy Spirit! That makes for another discussion at another time, but my point is that God forgives all. Yeah we would all send each other to hell that is for sure but with God, He see’s the fight in our hearts, knows what is going on inside that matters to Him. Like the publican in the back of the synogogue striking his chest without even the courage to look up, begging God’s forgiveness. If this is not so then WTH let’s just go have a good ole time and do everything for me, myself and I. Isn’t that what they are teaching in school nowadays anyway? Thank Heaven there is a God and His mercy is everlasting. Ponder why God created Hell in the first place? Was it in Love or Hate that He created it? God is not capable of hate so He created a place called hell for those who chose to not be with Him. That is merciful in itself!! To bad if hell is what they make it.*******************************

    IF I’m lucky and don’t die tomorrow, I’ll still have time to maybe redeem myself.**********remember we don’t redeem ourselves and the scales are not the way we see it. Who is to judge how God sees every minute of ones life. The hurt, fighting despair, poverty, and who alone can judge mans deeds. God alone! You need to give all this up and put it in God’s hands and ask Him to carry it for you. We are not capable of it.*************

    The Moral Market**************Coyote, whatever your country has told you to do in the line of duty is what you had to do. What ever else is eating at your soul you must allow yourself to be forgiven, after you have asked for it. I once wrote “the most powerful tool in the world is forgiveness. Asking for it is even better” and that is the truth. We ask God’s knowing and believing Him that He forgives us, even when we have murduered, raped, stolen or whatever the crime He has died for it. Just FOR YOU! The rest of the worlds immorality is what I expect you to keep sheddding your God given Light on.*****************

    I don’t get to make that final decision***********I am not here to preach to you either Coyote. I comeonly offering you what I believe to be true, my brother. I don’t take what you have said here lightly and I would love to talk with you more on it. But you do get to make the decission. God made us human and not an animal. We have been given “Free Choice” to freely choose what we will do with our souls. The choice is ours and we have chosen to walk this road, fight htis fight, fall and get up again and hopefully along the way there will be people like yourself that will help shed some light and help us along the way. Sometimes by just offering a hand, a prayer, a condolence and a kick in the butt when we need it. Sometimnes a fight. You have a fire inside you that is burning, crying out in the desert and that is good. There are many of us here that I am 100% sure that have fought many of those battles each in his own way that is willing to offer you a hand, love and a brotherhood or fellowship that surpasses all of this. You see, to me, one of the most important thing about the treehouse is the fact that we are willing to pray for one another, That means more to me thatn any political race in the world. Because ultimately that is what I need before I face my Lord and my God.

    I am going to pray for you my brother. That God gives you the gift of “DISCRIMINATION”
    (A spiritual gift permitting one to dscriminate between the types of thought that enter into ones mind, to asses them accurately and to treat them accordindly. Through this gif one gains “discernment of spirits” that is” the ability to distinguish between the thoughts or visions inspired by God and the suggestions or fantasies coming from the devil. It is a kind of eye or lantern of the soul by which man finds his way along the spiritual path without falling into the extemes; thus it includes the idea of discretion. I will pray for this earnestly so God can open His Light to you so that you may see just how much and how great His love for you is.
    Hang in there my fellow brother, GFC

    Like

  14. Coyote says:

    are you all done now?

    Like

    • barnslayer says:

      Maybe you gotta change your name again. Nah, they’ll still know who you are.

      Like

        • Now are you asking us not to care? Nah I ain’t done yet until I am 6′ under and then I’m done fer good!

          Like

          • Coyote says:

            Nope.
            Just asking if you’ve all had your fill of this nifty little intervention here.
            Has everyone had their say? I have this sneaking suspicion that not everyone is stepping up and saying what’s on their minds. Come on, now. Speak up.

            Like

            • Well Coyote, I am willing to exchange emails with you or you can go to my blog. You have laid a lot on the table and I felt compelled to answer (not just your sake) some of what you stated. Sometimes I really hate caring (you know what I mean I know you do) but that is the way it is, tough! None of us are alone, but yet the battles we face nobody can face for us. So in that way it is certainly the loneliest feeling in the world. Now if only I had an excuse to visit NM for a few…….. oh hell it probably aint the same as I remember it to be anyway.

              Like

              • Hey, GFC! That reminds me, I was out all day spinning wrenches yesterday, trying to get some work done before this snowstorm hits, and I ended up throwing on my old Levi’s jeans jacket as it got colder, and it occurred to me, it was the same one I wore when I used to run around New Mexico 30 years ago. Same one I was wearing in Juarez when my grandfather almost got me killed by wandering into the wrong plaza. Weird how a jacket that sits on a peg in the shop all the time can bring back memories. Sure happened yesterday.

                Like

                • Last time I went through Juarez was picking up a couple of sticks to blow in the desert and nearly got my self killed. Juarer, where you could get anything for a buck and some things for a lot less. Since this is the prayer thread I will ask for a prayer for true contrition on some of these things I put my parents through.

                  Like

            • AFinch says:

              I’ll bite. I found this conversation to be enlightening and uplifting and I thank you all for having it out in the open for anyone who wishes to see it and learn from it. I’ll be praying for you, Coyote, whether you want me to or not.

              Like

            • What for? You got every right to keep on believing as you do. Looks like you’re gonna. That’s ok. You’re young. God has lots of time, and so do we. Like GFC said, we don’t give up, but like Menagerie said upthread, we might move on to other things for a while. Like she said, we meant well. 🙂

              Like

            • texan59 says:

              You asked for it. I am not going to get into a spiritual discussion with you. As I mentioned the other night, that’s like me getting in the deep end of the pool without my floaties. I am gonna say two things.

              It is always better to be pissed off than pissed on. Right now, you are in the former position. I don’t know what has brought you to this point. I don’t really care. That is not for me to pass judgement on.

              You have a lot of people out here in the innterubes who care a lot about you. There ain’t one of us who hasn’t been where you are right now. Did we get there the same way you did? I doubt it. Unless you shot a man in Reno just to watch him die, I doubt that you will be heading southbound anytime soon. END OF EDITORIAL

              The part below is just between you and me.

              Depression is something that a lot of us have dealt with at one time or another. I can testify to that. It wasn’t fun or pretty for a long time. I don’t know if that’s what you’re going through, but IMHO, it seems so.

              I dealt with mine in all the wrong ways. Anger, booze, running the streets. None of that helped heal MY pain. It numbed it quite a bit, but it never went away. Some people self-medicate, some go to a doc and get the real stuff. I toughed it out. My faith helped me a lot. My family helped a lot. But a few years ago, I read a book that I can’t remember the title to, and in that book, it said that every day we have a choice. We can succumb to our fears, doubts and anxieties, OR, we can choose to do battle with them. Every day when I get my tired, old bones out of bed, I make the decision that I’m gonna have a positive, good day, no matter what kind of crap is hurled my way. It works for me. It may or may not work for you.

              I for one am not gonna sit here and let you wallow in the mud in public. I’m gonna be the one who from time to time will poke and prod you. I might even goad you into a little kerfuffle every once in awhile. Remember, if we didn’t care we wouldn’t say anything. The ball is in your court.

              Where do I pay my fine?

              Like

            • WeeWeed says:

              We just care, Coyote! Yer one of this rag-tag bunch of sinners, and we wanna keep ya!

              Like

  15. 🙂 Have A Blessed Day Everyone !!!! 🙂

    Like

  16. freedom1781 says:

    Wow. Some heavy stuff here in this thread. I’ve enjoyed reading every word. I love you guys!

    Like

  17. Ok everyone. NEXT! Gotta love people who care to share. I mean whoa! If you wanted it or not you got it.

    Like

  18. Coyote says:

    Are you sure?
    I want everyone to get theirs in.
    Some are missing here.
    Come on. Step up. Get it done.

    Like

  19. Auntie Lib says:

    Wow – heavy stuff here. Way beyond my theological pay grade. I tend to rely on the “Judge not, lest ye also be judged” theory of God’s perspective. I’ll do the best I can with what I’ve got – and in the end it is up to Him to decide if I am worthy to enter His house. I don’t think he operates on a balance sheet though; He judges on the basis of infinite Love. And HIs Love is not fathomable by us mere mortals.

    Like

  20. GFCandinthatorder says:

    God’s love for us is in omprehensable to us as mere human beings. That is why we will be so amazed throughout eternity by His everlasting and incomprehensible LOVE for man. We are not desert img of He’s en on our own and it takes the sacrificial Lamb to open the gates of He’s en for us. He is the Way. the Truth and the Life. For all of us who are seeking Him.

    Like

  21. GFCandinthatorder says:

    Peace be with you all this night!

    Like

  22. GracieD says:

    Just finished reading this thread. It has reminded me why I love all of you so much. The sincerity of the thoughts here is palpable. Y’all have said everything with love and concern for a fellow Treeper. Panch, we all love ya, and there ain’t nothing you can do about it. Ihave a saying that my Maw Maw used to tell me when I was qeustioning how God could possibly forgive me. Here goes: “Cher’ if you were the only person on earth, God still would sent his Only Son to die for your sins.” I tend to think in songs-sorry, that prolly sounds strange. Here is a song that an acquaintence of mine recorded 10 or so years ago…

    Like

    • freedom1781 says:

      Beautiful.

      I think in song as well. I’m not articulate enough to express my thoughts and feelings.
      I have a habit of posting youtube videos in the Chapel–sorry, I try not to do it too much, but sometimes I just have to do it. Below is one of my favorites.

      Like

  23. Coyote says:

    You all just had to jump on that rickety bus to Abilene, didn’t you?
    Just because Z-bug decided something, you had to build a case and go.
    You may have perceived a meaning somewhere in what I have written, but judging from what I am reading of what you all wrote…well, I’m going to tell you that you are wrong.

    1) Grunt, quit scratching your man-boobs, set down the BBQ wings and listen: I don’t have PTSD.
    2) GFC, quit cleaning your ears out with your car keys. You are scratching your brains and giving yourself brain damage. I’m not having any damned flashbacks.
    3) Barnslayer, the only depression I’m going through is dealing with the daily reminder that we have Obama as pResident. Nothing else.

    oh this one is just outstanding

    4) texan59, would you throw ice cubes at an eskimo in alaska? How about a glass of water on a drowning man? No? uhm…how about another picnic basket of cake on a fat boy who’s complaining that he’s full? No?
    Why did you think I was an “…ungrateful little sh!t.”??? Because you were trying to put a splint on my unbroken arm, were you angry because I would’t let you…because YOU misdiagnosed the situation? Are you I.N.S.A.N.E.?? Which wolf were you feeding just then? I’m not overmedicating, boozing it up or wandering aimlessly along roads, either. You better recalculate.

    5) Poofie….well, you are Poofie. Always the cheerleader we can count on.
    6) Z-Bug…it’s time for you to grow a pair. Stop being a ninny. Stand the hell up. Quit hiding. Yup, you lobbed a grenade alright, ducked…but then you ran away.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2011/02/01/prayer-requests-part-2/#comment-79171
    WTF was that…? Huh?
    Ok, maybe your intentions were good, so I’ll stop there and say “Thank You.”

    I understand our kind, better than you think I do. We want to help. All the time…but, we need to be careful to understand that OUR HELP is not always wanted all the time. We run the risk of looking/sounding/behaving just as the loony left does. Not all problems or challenges are ours to solve. No wonder why the left accuses the right of “clinging to our bibles and guns”. I just happen to clutch my guns a bit tighter, because some folk don’t stop at an open Bible…but, a rifle? Oh yeah. Dead in their tracks. I also understand that we employ the same TYPE of tools the left does to help make our points, with different attachments (like a Snap-On socket wrench). We use religion and logic and other items that make sense to us. We also use castigation and witch burning, because it works…just like…well…Facebook and other *social media* and social engineering methods that the left really enjoys using.

    Is my belief system a bit different than yours? I already told you, I view the living and life a bit differently than you do. My system is based on MY experiences, not yours. Mine are even loosely related to your teachings, but mine also consist of cabbaged dismal experiences. I tried to relate that to Newt’s predisposition to HELP the cause, but we needed to be careful of his intent…because, after all…he’s not like us. He’s fed other wolves during his time, just as I have. I also know, because I’ve chosen to feed those wolves, I need to make MY amends in the manner in which I see fit. MY CHOICE. Not yours. Feel it. Hear me. Listen to me. I fed Grey and Black wolves that need to be slain. It’s my understanding that I need to do something about it, in MY OWN WAY. It’s not up to you. But, you missed that, and it’s ok. Maybe it’s a problem with my unpracticed presentation skills.

    But, rather than opening up with my Tommy guns and going all Treehouse Massacre on you all for the Treehouse’s birthday, I figured I’d give you all the benefit of the doubt. Good people? Yeah. You are some of the best. Am I a loudmouth? Hell yes. Proud of it too. So, I’ve dished it out plenty since I’ve been in the branches…it was my turn to take it. I put my opinions out there, and they got scrutinized, I expected that they would. A Treeper never turns his back on an opportunity to throw some vocalizations around when he sees fit. It’s in the contract.

    So…you all gonna get outta the damned bus now? Abilene’s a long way off…and the drive is hot, boring and dusty. Get off the damned bus.

    Dumb-dumbs.

    Nice sermon, Sundance. Best one I’ve been to in years.

    “Choosing to Deny the existence of evil in the world does not protect you from it.”

    I’ll also keep considering mine, as well:

    “Denying and even acknowledging the evil in your OWN existence does not always protect you from it.”

    Like

    • WeeWeed says:

      So whaddya think about that avatar last night?? 😀

      Like

    • *sigh* ‘sgoing to be a long day…

      Like

    • barnslayer says:

      This is just like one of those Celebrity Roasts. Thanks for coming folks.

      Like

    • Here is the part where I kick your ass for being mean to Zophiel.

      Bring it, bitch.

      *insert mean frowny face here*

      Like

      • stellap says:

        Don’t feed the troll. Or the prick. Whichever term you prefer. They both fit.

        Like

        • Coyote says:

          Wow. The one who preaches, yet still wants to throw verbal knives.
          “Holier than thou”? Much? Which wolf are you feeding?

          This has been the perfect subject, and you can’t see through your very own muck.

          Like

          • stellap says:

            Yup, that’s me. Holier than thou. So what? You have no problem at all calling people names, so I thought I would return the favor. What did it for me was your remarks to Z. She’s a nice person who thought she was doing a nice thing. You could have kept that one to yourself.

            Like

            • Coyote says:

              Hmmmmm….I don’t think she was.
              She’s doing that under the auspices of being “nice”.
              I know those types. We all do. With all the skills and abilities she has, she doesn’t have the ability for more than “stupid jumbled platitudes”. . .at best? THAT was her VERY verbose method at telling someone that they are “too stupid to understand anything that an educated woman of her pedigree” is trying to say.
              Then, when I call her on it, she pulls that “vicitim” card, and she had you all fight her fight.
              Please…

              But, that was awesome for you to try.

              Like

              • What victim card? She was asking for encouragement and prayers for you, and then she went away and got on with her life. That’s what good people do. WeeWeed was just trying to make peace back on the OT, and all you can see is an insult. Think about it, Panch. Everybody here knows Z better than you do, clearly, but nobody else thought she was insulting you. Instead, it’s just the opposite. So why are you right and all them wrong? Why get all paranoid on us? She poured her heart out and called you a “giant.” Don’t slap her for it.

                Like

                • Coyote says:

                  Grunt, for an astronomer…well, I KNOW you aren’t that stupid.
                  She pulled the “victim” card as soon as she wrote “make me feel insignificant in comparison to, a little bug.”
                  You all felt compelled to do something…anything…for such a lousy bit of melodrama?

                  Please.

                  The woman has skills and courage of her own. But, the skills she employed were used to get you all to try to marginalize my presence and marginalize my opinion. She knew what she was doing.

                  Like

                • Coyote says:

                  Good. I’m glad you see it.

                  Like

                • WeeWeed says:

                  She’s nice. We like you. THE END. And trust me, if I have to come back here, it’s THE END.

                  Like

              • stellap says:

                I think you’ve been loving the attention, actually, since you asked. I was pissed off at you, and I didn’t like what you said. That’s it. Now I think you’re nuts on top of it.

                Like

                • Coyote says:

                  nah. See, if I was a narcissistic person, as you think I am (yet, another verbal knife you throw to marginalize me) I’d have let everyone know my real identity.
                  But, that’s not the case, now…is it?
                  But, you’ll probably throw some mumbo jumbo psycho analysis in here to prove your point otherwise…

                  Like

                • stellap says:

                  I’m not trying to prove any points. I’m telling you what I think. I’ll go away now. I’d say sorry, but all I could say is that I’m sorry you think you’ve been insulted.

                  Like

          • You just agreed to shut the hell up a few minutes ago, Panch. Be a man and shut the hell up. She was being nice in only calling you a prick. We’ve all been called worse. Now, STFU!

            Like

            • Coyote says:

              Sure did. And I’ll stop when everyone figures out that “nicely calling” me a prick was probably not the nicest thing to do.

              Wow. This thread. Isn’t it a bitcharoonie?

              It’s bringing out the worst in the folks who thought they were the best.

              Like

              • stellap says:

                you acted like a prick, so I called you one. and I’m not sorry. Did you read your own comments to Grunt, and Tex and the others above? That was really nice too. I don’t hear any apologies.

                Like

                • Coyote says:

                  oh wait…you mean words carry weight?
                  They can be used to offend?
                  They can be used to marginalize people who have viewpoints that don’t exactly mirror yours?

                  Wait wait wait
                  Tell me that’s not the case!!!!
                  They work to rile you up?
                  Do you think I meant them?

                  Like

              • stellap says:

                It is because we know we’re not the best. That was the reason for reaching out in the first place – to let you know that we are a bunch of flawed sinners. If you don’t understand that, then you don’t understand any of us at all. We don’t think we’re better than you.

                Like

              • GFCandinthatorder says:

                I don’t think you read my thread to you very well at all. I mentioned that t I would pray for you to receive the gift of (discernment) which is what you need desperately. I am not so so sure that this exercise of yours was exactly what you were looking for. I am not playing a game here! Lay before me what I have said to you that is wrong. Love (if you understand Gods Love) is not a mushy feeling Coyote. It is my duty and I find it hard to do. But whatever you missed here is the fact that there are people who care and pray for one another. And as I mentioned before that is more important than anything else. Love the sinner and hate the sin. It is not easy to do. You need guidance in your life. That will never happen without first having trust and faith. You are weak and need yo find strength and strength does not come from yourself. Not the kind you need. You may or may not think you need us. But you do. Christians are the body of Christ without each other there are no branches or strength. The more of us you have the stronger the body becomes. I employ no fancy tactic here. I am but a man trying to be a fellow Christian doing my job and you can’t stop me. And don’t try and insult the ones who care with rhetoric and why they messed up. Just take them of good will. We all must be humble, quick to forgive and faster to ask for it. Peace .

                Like

  24. goodkathie says:

    i just read all of this for the first time and i’m almost breathless and truly crying as i type…for some reason Pancho has always been on my mind since i lit on a branch here, didn’t know why. now i do…sorta…i am in awe of every single one of you. the one thought that kept going through my mind as i was reading is: we cannot redeem ourselves, Christ is our Redeemer. we are just here doing what we do, right or wrong, searching, loving, hating, helping, etc. no one knows s**t, we only have faith. Christ is our Redeemer.

    Like

    • Well said, GK. This is why I love that quote the Anchoress puts up on her blog: “Ideas become idols. Only in wonder is there knowing.” – Gregory of Nyssa. And I would add: Only in Him is there knowing.

      Like

  25. Coyote says:

    God works in mysterious ways, doesn’t he?

    This is awesome!

    Like

  26. Sharon says:

    Coyote is functioning like a troll, folks, with pointless consumption of time. I don’t know why. All of you have responded according to what you understood him to be saying, from your own best thoughts. None of you are responsible in any way for his current misery.

    I saw no reason to engage him earlier when he was rejecting y’all. He does not want to be persuaded either about your good hearts or God’s good heart.

    And there’s no reason to engage him now. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

    I saw the confusion and self-destruction he was showing yesterday and, at that late point in the conversation (I was otherwise occupied in life) I saw no point in entering the fray. I was hoping that the lull that occurred about 24 hours ago would continue, and I certainly didn’t want to become a reason to gear it up again. This is destructive on both a group and personal level and it needs to stop.

    Like

    • Solaratov says:

      Right on all counts, Sharon.

      Like

    • Coyote says:

      Sharon, see…this is where you are mistaken.

      1) I’m no troll. I have mostly enjoyed the company of the Treehouse. I’ve passed on hundreds of these threads on to other people to be politically engaged. Nice attempt to marginalize…

      2) You all asked me for my opinion. I put it up. You all chose in one way or another to castigate…because I think differently? That’s why I said you all just went to Abilene…and look at where it took us. No where even remotely close to where we wanted to be. Here. Now. I don’t really like this situation or place we are in…but here we are.

      3) I’ve tried to show that I keep on the straight and narrow with you. I’m a God-fearing individual, I just don’t choose to yell it out loud. I do things as I see fit…to the best of my abilities. I used examples the best way I could to tell my opinion, but it appears I fell short doing so. I donate in time and sweat, and if I miss with a wrench or hammer…guess what? I’ve just then donated in blood too. What does it hurt that I choose to attempt balancing my deeds? As long as I attempt to keep donating in the manner I chose. What does it hurt? It serves to not only benefit others, but it allows me time to think and feel good about what I do. What’s wrong with that?

      4) I’ve spent the better part of my life in the military. My sensibilities of right and wrong are probably a little different than yours. Not once did I ever say “better”, I said “different”. If you see it, great. If you don’t, I’m sorry you can’t.

      5) I never, not once reached out for prayer for me. Not once. When someone does pretends to “ask for prayer” in such a manner that Z did, I wonder. I do not think it was, nor will I ever think that it was made in other than an auspicious manner.
      You can ask for prayer for those who are sick, ill, dying or what not. But because they believe in something differently than you do? Come on…it’s only intent was to single me out for show who you want to marginalize. I’ve seen it before.

      6) TELLING someone that they
      – show signs of PTSD: attempt to marginalize
      – are depressed: attempt to marginalize
      – are crazy or nuts: attempt to marginalize
      – paranoid: yup..another attempt to marginalize

      THAT is way worse than telling someone (whom I’ve never seen) to stop scratching their man-boobs, to stop cleaning their ears out with their car keys, or that I’m not depressed. I even used silly words and my brand of humor to throw it back. There was no angry intent there. YOU all wanted there to be. I’ve watched groups of people do this to other individuals. It’s part of the group dynamic to castigate and marginalize folks. Politicians do it all the time.

      As for Zmalfoy: you could have wanted to pray in silence…without all the hub-bub. So, you think I have a problem? Bring it to me quietly. Why do you feel the need to air dirty laundry? Was that appropriate? This huge “intervention”? Your intent was to embarrass, and then ultimately have others harass…and what’s more…you KNOW it. How could you NOT think I wouldn’t be pissed? But, you did…it’s what you wanted. The funny thing is, I actually am not, nor was I. I even thanked you for it. I even gave you a nick name…”Z-bug” (harmless!). At first, I did NOT see you for an inconsequential or “fat” person. Until you said that, I envisioned you quite differently.
      But, after a little bit, I saw this for what you intended it to be.
      THAT was very evident after I re-read the manner in which you worded your request on the other page, and as more and more people began to behave in the manner in which they did…and YOU ran away!
      Look around….yup…I still don’t see you anywhere here, Z.

      THIS is how it is done…this very method you employed is how marginalization is carried out. This is how castigation is done.
      You know it, I know it, we all know it.
      If it wasn’t your intention, prove it to me. But, not only will you, you will claim that you can’t…because THIS is what you intended, to it’s very core…all the while the response from you will be that you are very sorry that I can’t see your intent, so it is I who must be flawed. So, yeah…that won’t work.
      But, if you truly, down in your heart feel that I’m wrong…PROVE IT.

      I have never put something such as a closely held belief out in public before. The time I do, I get CRUSHED for it. You wonder why I have so much vested in what I’ve said?
      But, correct. I’m not the victim here or any other time. I’m no victim.
      This thread is truly heavy. Very. From the title, down.

      FWIW: an overly medicated, drunk or “lost” person would not, I don’t believe, be able to keep conversing and maintain the attempt to show or demonstrate that I’m not at fault here.

      Like

    • No this will not end in tears, on my part. I think it is time lay things on the line. No more being quiet ever again. Look at what we have from being quiet. Look at the sad state of affairs that the world is in now because our church leaders are quiet! Look at the state of affairs that our country is in because our church leaders have been too quiet and not the leaders they should have been. Well now we must stand up and shout to make up for it. The heck with waiting or counting on our leaders to do something about it. Hell (kaching) that is a lousy excuse we have all been using that got us here in the first place. No, I will not be quiet anymore! If it seperates the weak from the strong so be it. If it angers atheist well that is their problem. If I can scream loud enough to get the attention of some so called “church leader” great. We must hold each other accountable for his and her actions. Remove the leaders where we need and get rid of the implants and self seekers that harm us

      Like

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