Interesting linked article to an interview with Mark O’Mara on the open thread. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, and simultaneously upsetting the followers who believe in Mark O’Mara, may I just, well, point out the obvious. Mark O’Mara is seeking the fame and professional notoriety that comes with a massive public trial.
Mark O’Mara did not trip into this case, he was delivered into the case by his friend and colleague Mark Nejame. [Collective goal to be amid Orlando's "Power 100" - Alongside fellow power player John Morgan (see Charlie Crist, Greg Francis, Ryan Julison et al)].
From the article: To an outside observer, O’Mara and other attorneys say, a combination hearing-trial would likely look a lot like a normal trial: A jury would be selected, and the state and defense would present their cases. But once that’s done, the jury would be placed in limbo while the defense tries to convince the judge to end the case herself.
[...] The “stand your ground” hearing is set for April 22, and Circuit Judge Debra Nelson has made it clear that she opposes any delay. The judge said last week that she wouldn’t grant a continuance “unless there are extenuating, extraordinary circumstances.”
But O’Mara said the defense doesn’t have time to prepare its case before that date, nor does it have the money. “We don’t have the finances to pay for experts to come [at all],” he told the Orlando Sentinel. “We certainly don’t have the finances to have them come twice.”
[...] However, Robert Buonauro, an Orlando lawyer who has handled several “stand your ground” hearings, argued that combining the immunity hearing with the trial is counterintuitive.
[Unless there is another unstated goal..... Duh ! /SD]
“The whole purpose of the immunity statute is to avoid a trial,” Buonauro said. “I think it’s totally contrary to the concept.”
[BINGO and, well Duh!..... /SD ]
The combination approach would also eliminate one of the much-heralded benefits of immunity hearings, Buonauro said: the chance to preview the state’s case, and the testimony of key witnesses, well before trial.
“If I can get my client off on an immunity grounds prior to a trial, I think it’s more beneficial to my client,” Buonauro said. “I can’t think of a situation where I would want to do it” the way O’Mara may propose.
O’Mara acknowledged that skipping the pretrial hearing would be a lost opportunity but said that would be true for both sides. He said he’s confident in his case, even if Nelson decided not to rule on immunity until after the jury’s verdict.
“She could even listen to the verdict before she makes her determination,” he said, adding confidently: “I’m OK with waiting until the jury acquits.”
[...] O’Mara said that, although the trial would be costly, a combination approach would eliminate the need for a two-week immunity hearing and would also limit additional pretrial publicity, which could make jury selection more complicated.
“We’re going to have literally worldwide gavel-to-gavel publicity of the immunity hearing,” he said. (link)
*Footnote: It should always be noted that Shellie, George, Robert Jr., Robert Sr., and Gladys Zimmerman have the utmost confidence in Mark O’Mara and his approach and committment to this case. (link)
Something is afoot here and it is not good. Eyes and ears Treepers.
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Amended%20Scheduling%20Order.pdf
45 days from Immunity Hearing to Trial ? What was the thinking here? 1.5 months?
Trevor Dooley – Immunity Hearing held December 14, 2011, February 23, 2011,
and February 24, 2011. Trial – November 14, 2012 – 8.5 months later.
Anita Smithey – Immunity Hearing held August 1, 2012. Trial has not yet started, 6.5 months later.
I’ve wondered about the timing all along. This entire proceeding has obviously been fast-tracked. (Average seems to be counted in years from arrest to trial.)
What is Nelson’s rush? How is it even justifiable that witness lists are due six weeks after the State discloses it’s most recent discovery supplement?
“What is Nelson’s rush?”
IMHO, avoidance of appellate review of immunity determination.
But this much rush is reckless, and is a gross and obvious miscarriage of justice. I weep for our constitutional republic if this sort of thing can be allowed to happen with impunity.
“if this sort of thing can be allowed to happen with impunity.”
Bankrupt Zimmerman with increased bond and security costs (NBP bounty and No Justice No Peace rally cry) Fast track immunity and trial, slow roll discovery = forced to combine immunity and trial = no appellate review of “pretrial” immunity determination. Very easy, very smooth, no? Did Crump figure this out all by himself?
http://www.cobar.org/opinions/opinion.cfm?opinionid=8130&courtid=2
Does anybody have a link to the October 17 hearing where the June 10 trial date was set?
+ infinity
MOM is either complicit in this charade or was totally caught of guard in regards to pushing trial date back.
Ideally, he discussed all the potential ramifications with Z and they made a calculated tradeoff to give Z the best possible chance of acquittal.
I thought all those dates when originally entered were agreed to be tentative, only now nelson is holding to them regardless. I would suspect some sort of blindsiding, but omara seems to be letting it go.
I do wonder if the state is attempting to block discovery not so much for Zimmermanns defense, and rather to prevent more information coming to light with regard to the civil cases that would follow. The less ammunition against them the better.
Seems to me that they need to put rules of procedure in place regarding 776.032 immunity determinations and an automatic stay of lower court proceedings upon filing of a 776.032 appeal which afford adequate time for conducting a hearing and appeal prior to trial, rather than leaving it to the discretion of the judge.
FL got the major compenents of case delayed til after Nov Election, now the rush to put a trial to bed before the 2014 gets in full swing. Who within the case is up for re election?
Bondi & Scott
Mayor Tripplet in Sanford.
I think there’s a LOT that Nelson is doing that isn’t kosher. Of course it’s gonna be up to MOM and West to call her on it. I still believe they’re playing some serious chess match here, and that they have no intention of moving forward until they’re absolutely ready. But I realize others disagree with me. Who knows…
+1 jello
Just the fax please have you not had a chance to share your concerns with. Zimmerman family. I would think donWest would have some concerns about the direction this. Case Is taking
Zimmerman family Are wonderful people But they are naive.
I have heard very little about the Beasley. Corporation lately. Are they still in the picture?
http://www.gzvnbc.com/
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA006178
No return of service, no answer to complaint.
“Are they still in the picture?” Good question.
Nelson goes long at the immunity hearing.
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/15/55/33/3593968/3/628×471.jpg
Because some of the family has been listed as witnesses for the state, there is a no contact order. I am sure West is fit to be tied.
Yes.
Just logging in again.
Hey.
This whole farce gets more bizarre every day. It is almost as if I am reading about a US citizen facing trumped up charges in Iran or North Korea.
Perhaps the only way out for George is if Seal Team Six launch a daring rescue to get him the hell out of Sanford…. fly him and his family to some sane place?
Seal Team Six is dead, aren’t they?
If you are speaking of the team # who became famous for OBL, well, YUP. Oddly, and by some cosmic coincidence, they all met with various *accidents* n’ stuff…
Not really “all” of the team has been wasted…(yet). The trigger man who offed OBL with 3 rifle shots through the head mustered out before his 20 years and now can’t get a job, nada….zip…he can’t find a job even as a greeter at WalMart. Obama will probably publish his name and location and contact information …..you know ….just so some generous Islamic charity can help him out, like that medical doctor in Pakistan got shown appreciation too.
“like that medical doctor in Pakistan got shown appreciation too.”
Right, room for 76,000 indigent refugees, but no room for one Pakistan doctor.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/30/presidential-memorandum-fiscal-year-2012-refugee-admissions-numbers-and-
25 Mil is a lot to give to a refugee, he might have voted Republican.
I’m reading the book “No Easy Day” and the team that was picked was all the best of the best and that’s why even before they knew the target they realized due to its handpicked members and secrecy it most likely was
UBL. Interesting, when the team was going over video films of the “pacer” (nickname for UBL due to his behavior around his home) they realized the helicopter noise would not alert him too much as he lived directly beneath flight pattern of Pakistani military training center and when their helicopter flew overhead he did not run for cover or react in some manner. Obvious that Pakistan knew where he was all the time, how could he live so close to training facility and they not? Think West Point…do you really believe that place does not know all it’s neighbors personally??
UBL hiding in plain site was a contributing factor to his demise.
Remember the man who was accused of making a video that caused the death of 4 Americans in Benghazi, He is innocent, sits in jail and will probably never be safe from islamists. He was expendable to POTUS, he was used to serve a purpose and his life meant nothing to our Government. Of course now we know the lives of the lives of the 4 Americans killed meant nothing either. Not even a phone call. America’s Justice System is defunct, gone, zippo!!! Georges case reminds me of Amanda Knox in Italy.
I am having a hard time understanding WHY MOM has waited this long to claim “they didn’t even have enough money for ONE EXPERT?” I had to read it twice to believe what he said, he has literally procrastinated this long with the SYG trial date looming and has no resolution as how to pay for experts. This isn’t something MOM just became aware of, it’s not his first rodeo, I have been reading articles that were dated through the summer and fall with discussions in the media of GZ possibly needing to claim “indigency” to help pay for his defense. WHY has MOM waited until the SYG Hearing was in sight to piss and moan about $$$$$ being one of the reasons to consider “rolling the trial into one?” The donations have been down a long time and although they spiked shortly after MOM stating in an interview “the fund was nearly exhausted,” I fear many aren’t following the case as closely as in the beginning, those that donated may have moved on to other causes and donating their monies there.
I continue to be confused over MOM’s logic and with other legal experts weighing in as Sundance has pointed out in this article, I question what is best for GZ. Convincing Judge N of anything, imo, is not likely, she can’t even be reasoned with to delay the SYG hearing for a short while, why in the hell does MOM think she could be convinced of GZ’s self defense action in the death of TM in the rolled up trial?
MOM had an article titled “Why not claim indigency” on his site but I couldn’t find the article when looking for it. MOM knew going into this case what the cost was going to be, imo, it was foolish to think the original monies raised could be sustained.
The State didn’t disclose the discovery evidence for which they need said experts until the third week of January, and the first week of February.
Chip – I have never seen a high profile case in which the Defense did encompass several legal experts on a multitude of aspects of a case, medical, computer,forensics, etc.
It would be highly unusual for the case not to have any and for the Defense not to have planned for experts, for every State expert MOM/West need an expert to dispute the testimony of the State expert, the jury is not going to dismiss the expert testimony of the State because MOM/West don’t agree with the testimony, the Defense experts will bring weight to the arguments or create reasonable doubt, they have to be experts in the field they are disputing or they will be challenged by the State and may or may not be allowed to testify, we have seen this time and again. You can bet BDLR will point out that
MOM nor West are experts in any field except law.
Having a defendant declared “indigent” is not the problem, as those of us that followed every aspect of KC’s trial witnessed, it’s the freaking paperwork that is difficult. Baez was forever in trouble over justifying the cost and expenses, many of the cost have to be APPROVED before monies can even be spent, if the criteria is not followed exactly, the JAC can reject bills turned in for payment, I don’t know how many rejections Baez received, but he had several invoices kicked back that the JAC refused to pay.and he had to pay himself.
A criminal defense attorney commenting on indigency in KC’s case said: “You have to go through a very intense process to get every cost approved prior. You’re going to have to go and get it authorized to get paid subsequent. So they get two hearings,” Smith explained. “The Justice Administrative Commission doesn’t give up its money very easily. They’re going to file a lot of motions [and] fight for every dime.”
Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/Casey-Anthony-declared-indigent#ixzz2LKmwMZ6f
The point is, the monies would be helpful for GZ’s defense and the paperwork has to be meticulous for approval and that doesn’t seem to be the biggest problem, it seems at this late date MOM has compounded his problems if he is going to claim “indigent” for GZ.
George should have hired one of the armchair attorneys here at the tree house. Without a doubt Mark and Don signed up for this pro bono case to reach fame and stardom by intentionally losing this case. SMFH!
Sometimes I would swear that the trayvonites sent a pitcher of their kool-aid over here.
Stop shaking your head and attempt critical thinking.
There is a difference between critical thinking and conspiracy theories.
Not a single person besides the defense team has possession of all the evidence or information that the defense has. Not a single person knows what strategy the defense plans to use, and I can assure you that the defense has a well thought out strategy.
IMO…it is just flat out silly for a bunch of people posting on a blog who have but a fraction of the evidence that the defense team has (a team who is working around the clock on this case) to suggest that they know better than the defense what strategy is best for their case. What is even more silly is when people start ranting some silly conspiracy theory that O’Mara and West have invested this much of their time to help railroad George Zimmerman.
You guys are not helping George or the defense team with this nonsense.
My goal has nothing to do with helping George or the defense team. My goal is just a truthful exposition of pertinent facts – The Truth Has No Agenda – If GZ is guilty, or if any evidence suggested he was guilty I would share it with the same level of ferocity as the evidence which supports his claim.
George is a product.
YOU, on the other hand, are either *really* close to the defense team (as in an employed participant) or you are a specific agenda writer for those who find greater benefit from the absense of sunlight.
The agenda is yours.
My agenda is to support and assist George and his defense team. I do not care about generating web traffic with sensational stories or conspiracy theories.
Is that an accusation or are you practicing your passive aggressive approach?
It is getting harder (harder, but not impossible) to weed out these agenda driven *concern trolls*
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/09/18/918-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/#comment-199569
Farewell and following seas…. enjoy your trip back to JQ.
Traybot opposing criticism of MOM. Well, well, well.
You should go back and revisit the interviews MOM gave to the “Irish Times” at the very beginning of this debacle.
West is the only (fading) hope GZ has, and the only reason he actually has what passes for a defense.
why hasn’t MOM put this into evidence?? http://www.today.com/video/today/46805798#46805798
Those who argue against the proper use of a Grand Jury in felony cases are SUBVERSIVES who seek to circumvent a specified CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT that is a basic civil right of anyone intended to be charged with a felony crime of ANY kind. Indictment should be done ONLY per approval of a GRAND JURY, particularly for those alleged crimes which are definitely NOT “open and shut cases” with regards to at least passing the “reasonable person test” for PROBABLE CAUSE to charge someone with a crime.
There should also be 12 persons on a petit jury which sits at any criminal trial . There are no cutting corners, as has become routine practice about such matters, which are legitimate and constitutional. Foregoing the use of a Grand Jury and CHEAPLY using 6 person peteit juries is simply emblematic as one more CHEAP credential of a crime cartel operating under the false pretense of being a legitimate government, pretending to do things “by the book” (purely for show) as an illusion that government occupies some moral high ground so it can appear to nice and legal whatever CHEAP abuses it
practices.
I did a little looking around on the SYG task force’s recommendations…and in the end…this is all they came up with. No recommendations about Grand Jury process/involvement. Of course, they included a recommendation for “recognized neighborhood watch groups” [#2].
As Sundance has penned….in this case….George is a “product”.
http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Task-Force-Report-Draft.pdf
Somebody must have had the recommendation of using a Grand Jury removed from the preliminary finding of the committee…..no surprise on that Florida would choose to maintain the corruption which has already become standard practice to remain in effect. Of course that will include keeping carry restrictions that are very plainly infringements on the second amendment, allowing only concealed carry for “license holders” while of course there will be a designated “elite” aristocracy of law enforcement and officers of the court or other agents of the state who are exempt from any infringements upon their second amendment right.
Here is an interesting analysis that raises a number of good points.
An Anomaly of Florida CHL and UOF Laws: Defending Bill of Rights.
On August 29, 2012, in government, law, life, reform, by A. R. Longoria, Jr.
http://arlongoria.com/2012/08/29/an-anomaly-of-florida-chl-and-uof-laws-defending-bill-of-rights/
Yes, I believe that is what happened. To have a Grand Jury recommendation in there would have been inconvenient for people who were not wanting a Grand Jury process to happen.
Here is an interesting analysis with several good points. The writer using as a starting point a comment that Miami-Dade attorney Katherine Fernandez-Rundle made.
An Anomaly of Florida CHL and UOF Laws: Defending Bill of Rights.
On August 29, 2012, in government, law, life, reform, by A. R. Longoria, Jr.
http://arlongoria.com/2012/08/29/an-anomaly-of-florida-chl-and-uof-laws-defending-bill-of-rights/
Katherine Fernandez Rundle is the special prosecutor who should have been assigned. She is fearless, brave, and not afraid to tell it like it is…..
She took over from Janet Nepalitano down there and has been attacked relentlessly. She’s tough as nails and a real iron lady. She gives it right back to them….
She seems like a smart, principled, experienced attorney. As a leader she comes across as a problem solver and communicator.
No…she would not have been assigned to the case where a grand jury process was simply not wanted.
To be honest I don’t think there is much of a chance Judge Nelson will grant immunity. There is too much political pressure for one person to be seen as stoping this insanity. Granting immunity is the right thing to do but any judge would have to have alot of courage to do so in this case. I think it will go to jury, the odds are in favor of that. Hopefully, there will be some jurors that aren’t totally bought in to the false narrative.
I have mixed judgments about Omara – but when he “bad mouthed” Immunity hearings – I doubted he would be the best lawyer for George. I think having the SAME judge for both IMMUNITY, and then the trial – is a terrible mistake. Here again, I think it must be a IMMUNITY-Grand Jury, were, the Judge would not decide – it would be presented to a Grand Jury. But I am pleased that West is on the case – he is the best defense that George had – IMHO.
The “Logic” of Corey-Bernie and the future trial for George Zimmerman. Tell me I am wrong.
defending trayvons actions is a threat to all white people.
connecting 2 stories:
http://fox2now.com/2013/02/18/teen-killed-in-attempt-burglary-was-suspect-in-knockout-game/
ST. LOUIS, MO. The teenager shot and killed by a homeowner while allegedly breaking into the man’s house had been in the news before. In fact, FOX2 has learned, he was once charged in the case that made the phrase “knockout game” common in St. Louis.
Demetrius Murphy, 15, died Friday morning after he and another teen, Michael Bryant, allegedly tried to break into a man’s home on Tennessee. Police say the homeowner emerged with a gun. Bryant ran, but they say Murphy confronted him and was shot and killed.
When it happened, the ears of Matt Quain perked up. It was back in 2011 that Quain and a friend were walking along Grand, returning from a “beer run” to Schnucks, when they say a group of teens jumped them. Quain was beaten badly, suffering neck injuries and a broken jaw. He was discovered bleeding in the street by Mayor Francis Slay and his security guard.
Murphy, just thirteen at the time, was the one identified by Quain as his attacker. Sources tell Fox 2 that Murphy was headed to trial in the “knockout game” case,
more on that case:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/knockout-game-case-shocked-st-louis-then-fell-apart/article_cdf5032a-b65e-51e0-a84e-de0f0ce0c5f8.html
Leyshock took stock of the young man in his office. The kid looked 17 or 18. He was stocky, his hair cut in short dreadlocks. He wore a hooded sweatshirt.
On Oct. 21, Matt Quain, 52, a dishwasher, was severely beaten in a knockout assault on South Grand Boulevard. The mayor helped rescue him. Seven middle schoolers, some as young as 12, were arrested. Then, at a juvenile court hearing in January, the main witness, a 13-year-old classmate of the defendants, failed to show up. The case was tossed out.
The target was picked at random, an older man just walking past. Two boys, ages 12 and 13, ran up from behind and ‘simultaneously punched him on either side of his face,” noted the police report. Three other boys — one was 12, the other two were 14 — then began punching and kicking the man, too. The girl’s classmate ran across the street and joined in, along with a 14-year-old boy. The victim collapsed. The teens walked away.
The 13-year-old witness never showed.
Wenstrom heard a roar in the hallway. It sounded like cheering. “I was almost sick to my stomach,” he says. For Tina Vence, a defendant’s mother, it was the right outcome. She was certain her child was innocent. So was Sonia Womack, another defendant’s mother. “My heart goes out to him,” she said of the victim, “but they need to get the right people that did it.”
The defendants flocked to Facebook to announce their freedom. “Yeaaa immm home somebody call mee,” one wrote.
“We out here … who mad,” wrote another.
Slay said he believed the 13-year-old witness was intimidated into skipping court.
Bolstering the notion was a Facebook posting by a defendant’s mother on Nov. 17. She wrote that the 13-year-old girl already was missing — “thats a good thing.”
Five days after the hearing, the 13-year-old witness took to Facebook to respond to teasing that she had ratted out her friends “because they were playing knock out.”
The girl insisted, using online slang, that she was not helping police: “I worked byy myy mff self…”
In late January, the witness’s mother told the Post-Dispatch in a brief interview that her daughter was never missing, but people had been “threatening her.”
“We have to live where we stay,” she said. “I’m not going to jeopardize my child.”
Despite her misgivings, the mother said it was “lies” that they intended to skip court.
Wenstrom didn’t blame the young witness. Leyshock was surprised the girl made it as long she did.
It may be harsh but I wouldn’t have the slightest problem with every thugged out kid in this country who is of the demeanor to be attacking strangers, or burglarizing houses, or participating in flash mobs, to die in their next criminal escapade at the hands of a gun owner.
I don’t care if they’re 12 or 13… I don’t care if they’ve had it rough. I don’t care if they’re an inner city youf who’s dealing with the realities of an oppressive history dating back to slavery yadda yadda yadda. Other disadvantaged groups have gotten their stuff together and overcome adversity, other people have lived in poverty and not turned to crime in such a violent and widespread fashion.
No more sympathy, no more explanations, no more excuses.
Whatever Sundance postulates needs to be taken seriously.
I may disagree with him from time to time, but always with the knowledge that he may very well be right.
There is plenty of speculation about the course of GZ’s defense and I don’t know what to think.
The actions taken by MOM seem proper to me.
Given the tardiness with which the prosecution has disclosed discovery evidence, the push by Judge Nelson raises the question of due process violations against GZ. Especially when taking into account the time differentials noted by some Treepers in the commentary above.
The fact that an accused is entitled to a “speedy” trial does not mean that the courts are allowed to “speed things up” to a rate where the accused is denied a proper defense.
No-one wants to be more wrong than I. NOBODY.
Just like the O-Ring engineer who warned of the weakness in the Space Shuttle. He too wanted to be wrong.
There is no comfort in standing alone while everyone diminishes and simultaneously ignores risk. No comfort at all.
Mark O’Mara is a risk. The future of behavior can only be *objectively* reviewed and then predicted in the historical mirror of known prior action.
I am saddened to be standing alone, but not uncomfortable. It is increasingly familiar terrain.
The frustration/concern that I have is that when you switch on the light roaches scurry and hide.
These roaches seem to be setting up recliners to bask in the light.
They have been trying to settle in on our branches but get swept away thank goodness.
Well of course MOM wants the fame and fortune that goes with the case. It seems to me that if gz is acquitted or granted immunity, he will have earned it.
I join the Zimmerman family in having the utmost confidence with Mark O’Mara to zealously defend George against this charge. I’ve seen no evidence to date that sways me into thinking Mr. O’Mara is part of the railroading going on against George Zimmerman. I will continue to watch closely though.
I also join Sundance in thinking the combining of the immunity hearing and trial is an awful idea. I’m compelled to act as best I can to right the wrong I see in that a citizen of the United States is not being afforded his constitutional rights. George Zimmerman should not have been charged with the facts as we know them. It is very clear he was assaulted and was in fear (screaming) when he shot one bullet to stop the attack. I witnessed the prosecutor give the court misleading transcripts and twice now have watched the Judge rule on motions and affidavits that they just received in court the morning of the hearing. I saw a Judge tell George Zimmerman he doesn’t have to right to sit like a potted palm in his courtroom. I saw the judge hold a hearing to revoke bond without the defendant in the courtroom!
Now we come to the immunity hearing, a law that was enacted to protect citizens from becoming bankrupted and having to defend themselves against a charge when the preponderance of evidence in a self-defense case is 51% or more. To hear George can’t have that opportunity either, pisses me off. Why can’t he have it? Because the judge won’t give the time needed in this case to prepare. Because the judge took $100K from his donations and money is a problem now. How are the tax payers of Florida hurt by giving George Zimmerman due process? This man deserves a fair trial and he deserves a fair immunity hearing. He deserves the time need to prepare for all laws afforded him. I will continue to fight for this man’s rights. What the hell is going on in the State of Florida?
You all seem to have confidence in Mr. West, as do I. Recall, it was Mr. O’Mara who convinced Mr. West to join the effort. I hope we can all help and support the team. We aren’t going to like all the decisions made, there are as many opinions on what should be done as we have commenters. That’s what a free-world is all about.
If what went on here doesn’t get exposed, you best prepare for the next citizen the civil lawyer goes after with the divisive playbook.
“Why can’t he have it? Because the judge won’t give the time needed in this case to prepare.”
Not because the defense agreed to slow roll discovery and agreed to an impossible fast track schedule, providing only 45 days between immunity hearing and trial?
Remember when putting words into BDLR’s mouth, he has a habit of taking the facts and twisting them. While there may have been an agreement to break the discovery into bite-size pieces so that protection orders could be put in place on private stuff in light of Florida’s Sunshine law, I’m certain the intent wasn’t to hold the discovery from the defense until September through to February.
You saw in the State’s 9th Supplemental Discovery in December they listed 12 new witnesses the defense didn’t know about. The phone data being held into February is totoally unacceptable and poppy-cock that the defense willingly entered into an agreement with the State on that.
As far as scheduling of the hearing go, I didn’t hear anyone with all these concerns when the schedule got set. Do you know why? Because we didn’t know the State would still be doing their investigation on key pieces of evidence (the phones) into January!
The judge needs to answer for why the Immunity hearing has to be scheduled when she has all the discovery issues in front of her. George should be afforded the opportunity of a hearing to avoid trial. To take that away from him is another violation of his rights, imo.
“The judge needs to answer for why the Immunity hearing has to be scheduled when she has all the discovery issues in front of her.”
It is not apparent to me why Nelson needs to answer. Typically a lower court judge needs to answer for their conduct only upon filing of an appeal to a higher court.
“George should be afforded the opportunity for a hearing to avoid trial. To take that away from him is another violation of his rights, imo.”
I agree, although it is not clear to me that MOM is protecting GZ’s statutory right to a pretrial immunity determination and a pretrial appeal of an adverse immunity ruling. Will Nelson, after seating a jury, having the jury listen to all of the evidence, agree to stay trial before submitting the case for decision by a jury, pending appeal of an adverse immunity ruling?
“As far as scheduling of the hearing go, I didn’t hear anyone with all these concerns when the schedule got set. Do you know why? Because we didn’t know the State would still be doing their investigation on key pieces of evidence (the phones) into January!”
I’m not sure what you mean by this. The trial was set at a docket sounding Oct 17 that lasted 6 minutes according to Rene. She writes;
“The hearing, known as a docket sounding, lasted about six minutes. Though the judge set a date, Zimmerman attorney Mark O’Mara was noncommittal about when he’d be fully prepared.
“I don’t know today when we’ll be ready for trial,” he said.”
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-10-17/news/os-george-zimmerman-docket-sounding-20121017_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-shellie-zimmerman
But did O’Mara say anything to the judge? The judge seems to be under the impression that the trial will be on that date. O’Mara, at least as expressed to the media, seems to think the date is “just a target?”
“June makes sense because it gives us a target date,” O’Mara said shortly after the hearing. “I have no idea between now and then if we’ll be ready. We’re going to try to be ready.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/ondeadline/2012/10/17/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvo-martin/1638589/
Also from that OS article clearly discovery has always been an issue, as we all know regardless;
“Nearly two weeks ago, O’Mara formally asked the judge to delay the case. This week, co-counsel Don West filed paperwork, complaining that the special prosecutor in the case has failed to turn over all the evidence that’s required and had been uncooperative.”
At the Oct 19 hearing O’Mara didn’t protest when the judge brought up the June trial date.
At the Oct 26 hearing O’Mara didn’t protest.
Many people here thought numerous things that would account for the lack of concern. Many believed this was never going to make it to a trial. Some believed this would be tossed out at an immunity hearing. Most thought the trial date was merely a tentative thing and would be continued.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/17/10-17-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/
I don’t think many people thought, until it finally started to sink in about this judge, that there would actually be a trial in June.
DiwataMan says:
June 21, 2012 at 12:20 am
“As I said I think there’s too much at stake now. They are going all the way on this one…There is no way the forces that be are going to admit they sought arrest to avoid riots so they must cover their butts. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few more people involved in this case gets sacrificed before this thing is over.”
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/06/20/breaking-sanford-police-chief-bill-lee-fired/#comment-141760
The question is now, what is O’Mara going to do? As far as I can tell he’s going to trial in June and looks like he wants to essentially skip the immunity hearing, I don’t see him doing anything otherwise.
“The question is now, what is O’Mara going to do?”
I agree. There’s a LOT he could complain about, I assume to the DCA. What the State has done, with the apparent blessing of Nelson, is outrageous. So yeah, it’s up to MOM and West to now do something about it. The hearing on Friday, and what MOM says immediately afterwards, is gonna tell us a lot.
Unfortunately, neither discovery issues nor denial of continuances can usually be appealed prior to conviction. I wonder, though, whether they could be appealed as part of an appeal from the denial of immunity.
From what I understand, if misconduct re. discovery is formally alleged, a Richardson hearing MUST be scheduled. And that could set a lot of other things in motion.
I’m a little confused about whether the requirement for a Richardson hearing only applies after the trial has begun. I haven’t found any cases where the appellate court found an error because a Richardson hearing wasn’t held for discovery violations that occurred prior to trial. Almost any discovery violation before trial can be cured by a continuance. That is, of course, only theoretical when Nelson is the judge.
Look at Cuminnotto v State
Wow. I thought I’d just glance at that case in your link, but I ended up reading the whole thing. I’d advise if you don’t wanna get very angry, don’t read that. The prosecutors and trial judge in that case were almost as bad as what we’ve seen in George’s. The prosecutor tried to hide a medical document that would have helped the defendant, and only gave it up a week before trial. That didn’t leave enough time to hire an expert to examine the document, and so the defense wasn’t allowed to present the EXCULPATORY document during the trial. And then, get this: During closing arguments, the prosecutor actually had the nerve to say, “Notice the defense didn’t present any medical documents showing his innocence?” MAKES ME WANNA SCREAM! Some prosecutors and some judges are just evil to the core. Uh… oh well…
But back to George’s case, and the issue of discovery violations. That other case referred to some of the criteria for getting a Richardson hearing. And it’s obvious that Nelson MUST hold one, if MOM/West demand it:
“Fla. R.Crim. P. 3.220(j). “There are no exact ‘magic words’ or phrases which must be used to necessitate [a Richardson ] inquiry; only the fact that a discovery request has not been met.” Smith v. State, 7 So.3d 473, 506 (Fla.2009).
“Once a trial court has notice of a discovery violation, the court must conduct a Richardson hearing to inquire about the circumstances surrounding the state’s violation of the discovery rules and examine the possible prejudice to the defendant.” Jones, 32 So.3d at 710. “This requirement applies when the court learns of a possible discovery violation, in order to determine whether there has been an actual discovery violation.” Id. at 710–11 (emphasis in original).”
MARK O’MARA & DON WEST: It’s WAY past time to demand this!
Thanks to LetJusticePrevail for the cite to:
Cuminotto v. State, (Fla. 4th DCA 2012).
Yep, I just wrote another comment on that a minute ago. And yep, a Richardson hearing IS required! And as I said in my other comment, BOY that Cuminotto case makes me angry with what the prosecutor and judge did. Right out of the Corey/Bernie/Nelson playbook.
Thanks, Nettles. I feel exactly the way you do…. and yeah, I’m getting pretty angry about it. There’s something seriously wrong with how this judge is dealing with the discovery and the scheduling.
“the defense agreed to slow roll discovery” But an agreed-to “slow roll” and what has actually happened is two different things. How was MOM to know at that early stage that Bernie and Corey were gonna do what they’ve done in regards to discovery?
Jello, I have to agree with you, I can recall on a least 2 occasions that BDLR has claimed the Defense had all the discovery, only to turn in more discovery later. Wether MOM and West could have been more aggressive in requesting the discovery, or were content with the pace at which discovery was being turn in, its a matter of opinion. Here is where we stand, with fast approaching deadlines and the Defense essentially saying is not prepared.
The Immunity Hearing is now in jeopardy of not occurring, I feel that is a mistake. I have heard the arguments, heck, I made some of them for doing both at the same time, but on further reflection I feel it is the wrong call. Using the excuse that Judge Nelson will never grant the Immunity aside, it is a great opportunity for GZ case to be heard in public, no restrictions or the colored reporting and editing by the MSM.
The only real reason to me for not giving it a shot, for me would be if I felt my case is weak. In which case I would not want the prosecution 2 bites at the apple. If the Immunity is denied or the decision is delayed until the trial is conducted, it runs the risk of it being just an affirmation of whatever the jury decides not a standalone decision. How awkward would it be if the Judge decided to grant immunity and jury convicts?
I don’t think that SD is suggesting that MOM is railroading GZ to achieve an outcome detrimental to him. Instead, he is suggesting that he’s working with the State to achieve and outcome that is beneficial to all the main parties, while still getting GZ his acquittal and some players, who have been behaving badly, their actions are swept under the rug.
Honestly if such arrangement could be made, I will be all for it. GZ acquittal is the goal, all secondary goals are not as important if GZ is spending 20 Yrs in jail, with Shellie serving 5-10. IMO opinion MOM and West are doing the good cop, bad cop routine to get this resolve. MOM is being the politician while West is being the attack dog, hence the Crump Depo, etc.
I know that there are Treepers, myself included, who would like nothing better than expose some of the players in this debacle. My satisfaction is not worth GZ’s life, if it’s not to be, well that is the way cookie crumbles.
Yes the utmost important thing is that George is set free. Also I want him to be immune from civil suits. I want that too.
I really want the Scheme Team held accountable or there will be a repeat on another citizen.
You are absolutely right. They will keep doing this over and over until they are stopped. I would love nothing more than for them to be held accountable for all of the evil they have done. The Scheme Team has a lot of connections and have a wall of protection around them.
Aren’t the people who would need to hold them accountable the same people who are giving them a pass over all these months? Seems to me there’s an abdication of normal judicial responsibility oversight from the level of the State, and just because the calendar shifts forward to May of 2014 with a review of this case scheduled doesn’t suggest their interest in justice would have change.
That is right. It will not change because they are not interested in true justice. They all have their own agenda. Things will not change until we have the right people back in government that uphold the constitution. George is being denied his constitutional rights.
Pretty much all you have to do is compare Governor Scott’s SYG task force’s final draft recommendations and compare it against the original Crump-Julison narrative to see the faux arc of justice in this case. The task of governmental task forces apparently are to protect the ability to leverage the work product.
I did a little looking around on the SYG task force’s recommendations…and in the end…this is all they came up with. No recommendations about Grand Jury process/involvement. Of course, they included a recommendation for “recognized neighborhood watch groups” [#2].
As Sundance has penned….in this case….George is a “product”.
http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Task-Force-Report-Draft.pdf
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
By Barbara Liston
ORLANDO, Florida | Wed Mar 7, 2012
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/us-crime-florida-neighborhoodwatch-idUSBRE82709M20120308
What does #5 mean? Legislature should allow all Crump’s future clients to sue w/o predicate race-baiting and politically motivated criminal persecution?
# 5 The Task Force recommends the Legislature consider whether
civil immunity provision should extend to innocent third-party
victims.
How about #1, what is considered a proportionate force,
The Task Force concurs with the core belief that all persons,
regardless of citizenship status, have a right to feel safe and
secure in our state. To that end, all persons have a fundamental
right to stand their ground and defend themselves from attack
with proportionate force in every place they have a lawful right
to be and are conducting themselves in a lawful manner.
So if you are being attack with a machete you can only use something akin (proportionate) a machete?
Nettles, this is why I am concerned that the Judge is going to hold up Crump’s Affaidavit as sufficing for his deposition. That dep is key in opening the very door to the Scheme Team.
I wonder why the State wouldn’t want the scheme exposed too. I’m sure they don’t ever want to be in this position again. They can’t let them away with what they’ve done.
I agree. If we have any hope of getting this exposed, that deposition is the first step.
It just occurred to me that one reason for the State not wanting a closer examination of Crump is because he is their exit strategy. They can dump the acquittal on Crump and his involvement. His handling of the DD, statements made to the media, etc.
Corey can call a press conference and just declare that Crump’s interference was the reason GZ could not be convicted. Had the State been allowed to handle DD, had Crump not pull other witnesses into his fold, had he kept his mouth shut, the outcome would have been different. Then announce an investigation into his dealings.
Let them get away with it? LOL, They are helping them get away with it.
There will be a repeat. Multiple repeats.
While hoping the ‘Scheme Team’ will be held to account is a noble goal, it is historically a ridiculous expectation. will not happen.
The goal is to give them $$$$…. get them to move along…. and then get this to disappear from the papers and TV and conciousness.
If that means some time in prison for GZ then so be it, he is a product…. and he did kill an unarmed teenager because he was getting his ass kicked (BH version)…… so whatever.
This pattern has repeated itself for decades and no-one is even discussing the possibility of stopping it, let alone actually taking action in that regard. MoM knows the program and he’s just facilitating a process too.
He just needs to find a way to feel good about himself after he gives GZ that final back pat in handcuffs exiting the courtroom. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think I disagree a bit. I think this case is the best example in history that exposes it all for what it is. That has to account for something even if it only means it wakes some people up to the reality. I agree that it’s so institutionalized that it’s like David vs. Goliath but even O’Mara himself has begun to see it.
http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/51-race-and-the-george-zimmerman-case
But O’Mara contradicts himself;
First:
“The truth is that there is credible evidence that black men are overrepresented in the criminal justice system, and that is evidence of an underlying problem.”
Then:
“If Mr. Crump believes that the Sanford Police Department acted with bias during their investigation, then he should demand a comprehensive conclusion from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE)…”
If O’Mara has, as claimed, “…spent a career in criminal defense fighting against racial bias in the justice system that affected many of their clients.” then he would know the narrative that part of the “underlying problem” with “black men are overrepresented in the criminal justice system” is the police and he wouldn’t demand Crump demand a conclusion from the FDLE, it’s just assumed part of the narrative. And just a side note, there is no “if” here, it’s well documented what Crump has said in regards to the SPD.
This is probably the first time O’Mara has dealt with something like this and he’s getting it at it’s highest, most extreme form. No doubt he’s experiencing cognitive dissonance. Here he has the entire black establishment all the way up to the POTUS and all his local dinner party buddies pushing the racial narrative that he’s been so accustomed to hearing and believing while at the same time faced with the reality. That’s got to be earth shattering to anyone to have such an ideology shaken up and broken to such an extreme. I won’t be surprised if he ends up retiring and fishing with Wolfinger.
Best example in history.?
I would think Tawana Brawley would be #1. Duke Lacross #2. OJ Simpson #3. Freddies Fashion Mart #4. Rodney King #5.
Heck, I doubt GZ would actually make a top ten list…. he’s just the current visible version.
O’Mara retire? Oh, hellz no…. he’s gonna milk this all the way to infamy! well, that’s the goal anyway. You seem to give MoM a character trait of Altruism…. odd, because he is constitutionally incapable of being anything except self-serving, self-interested, and self-important.
Are you sure he actually has the capacity for such a DNA strain?
I think I could make a pretty good case of why I believe it is but it will take me a while to put it all together and I don’t want to put it in this particular comment string as it would be a mile long with three word sentences, lol.
I didn’t discuss O’Mara’s ethics so I’m not sure what you mean. That particular comment was meant to convey that because his world view has been so torn apart that I wonder how he can possibly continue on being a defense lawyer after this. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not going to try and get what he can out of it, financially or otherwise.
I agree, it’s easily the best example in history. The freakin president is involved. The attorney general’s allowing bounties, the governor has been mandated to assign Corey to throw out the entire legal process and fib in official court documents. A police department has been rearranged for the narrative. Even the whole MSM is lying. Even the judges and lawyers are in on it. And it’s all obvious (except for MOM being in on it, which is likely IMO but not entirely certain). None of those previous cases had even close to this level of involvement. This is Duke Lacrosse times a billion.
Yep, me too… this one seems bigger than any of the others. And some, like the OJ and Rodney King cases, well those don’t seem like the same kinds of cases at all. Tawana Brawley and Duke, however… yeah those are using the same general template. But as you say, the current case seems far broader in scope, with much bigger “players”.
If this: “The goal is to give them $$$$…. get them to move along” is true, then why do they want THIS: “and then get this to disappear from the papers and TV and conciousness.” ?
Not sure I worded that right. What I mean is, if they’re ok with what the BGI does, then why would they care if this all disappeared after it was over? And if they’re NOT ok with it, then why don’t they try to stop it? As DMan says below, there’s never gonna be a more obvious case than this one, and so if the BGI is EVER gonna be exposed, it’s now. Or are you saying that even if they COULD destroy the BGI, they would choose not to?
They are not “ok with it”, they are being extorted. Simultaneously they just want to get to the point where they pay the extortion so the BGI can move along to the next victim and get them out of the crosshairs.
The last question you pose is highly complex. Suffice to say the short answer is “YES”.
Jello, I think you answered your own question, if they are OK with the BGI getting their reparations ($$$) why would they want this one to go away? Because, this case is obvious, unlike some of the others as you told me yourself told me, the people were guilty of something, not in this case. This case has the potential of illuminating the whole racket, from the politicians to the lawyers who play the game for their benefit.
Yeah, that makes sense. The ones who approve of what the BGI does, would like to get this case over with quickly, since it’s the one that could blow it all up. Yeah, makes sense. But I just gotta believe there are SOME people in power out there who do NOT like what the BGI does, and would LIKE to see it blown up. Where are THEY?
Sure there are people who want this to end, but it is very profitable, not just financially but politically, careers are made supporting the BGI.
Absolutely. I want this for him and Shelley, too,
Yes, George’s physical freedom is the most important thing. But unless what has been done to him is EXPOSED for the evil conspiracy that it is, George and his family will have to live in fear even after the hearing/trial. Only if it’s all laid out there, for the world to see, will the general public FINALLY see the truth, and allow George to live as a (more or less) normal person from now on. Of course no matter what happens, there will always be a few of the hardcore Trayvonites out there. But that we can deal with. It’s the other 95% of the population that matters. I see no other way for them to learn the truth of the matter without exposing the Scheme Team and the malicious prosecution
In an ideal world that would be what would happen. Sadly it won’t because of the high level of politics involved. If they don’t get to depose Crump, they cannot expose anything. The judge won’t allow the depo IMO. A compromise is in the works.
Let’s hope that an offer to drop everything doesn’t come with a little document stating that GZ will not hold anyone in the State accountable in regards to THIS case….but I don’t see anyone with the State being brought up on any charges after GZ is aquitted…they watch out for each other….
Accountability can come in many different ways, jail time or criminal charges are not the only way. Besides it may just embarrassed a lot of powerful people, if some dealings reach sunlight.
…….”I don’t think that SD is suggesting that MOM is railroading GZ to achieve an outcome detrimental to him”…..
George is a product. MoM is using the product – he’s not trying to intentionally kill the product – he’s just ambivilant about it. George is a product. A work product.
MOM is playing Chess not Checkers, yeah lets have that immunity hearing and what if Nelson does not agree to grant immunity? What affect do you think that will have on the jury? At least this way the jury has no idea how the judge ruled the case and if they do acquit then she will grant immunity. Its not always what you take but how you take it!
“At least this way the jury has no idea how the judge ruled the case and if they do acquit then she will grant immunity.”
So Nelson secretly denies immunity, the case goes to the jury, which acquits, then Nelson reverses herself and grants immunity. Sounds like you are playing tic tac toe.
Perhaps O’Mara sized up his financial situation with regard to paying experts (twice) and more importantly sized up Judge Nelson, and determined that she had given him ample reason to suspect that GZ doesn’t have a prayer of her granting him immunity. Regardless of the facts. As others have said here numerous times, she doesn’t come across as brave enough to do the right thing and have all the focus land on her, as an individual, in GZ going free.
So if we here are clever enough to realize that, I’m sure O’Mara is too. Maybe he sees the immunity hearing as a pointless exercise with this judge, and knows he won’t get another judge. Maybe that’s why to him, just turning it into a formality rolled inside the trial makes sense. It doesn’t seem to honor the notion of the law itself… but if the fix is in, what’s the point? Perhaps GZ’s only hope is that the system isn’t yet corrupt enough to mess with a jury directly. Or that they have resigned themselves to GZ going free eventually, but just want to ensure it’s on 6 random jurors’ heads and not some specific public figure.
I certainly agree that Judge Neson’s “rush” for a trial – prevents the IMMUNITY hearing. That is not Omara’s fault. I would still wish for an IMMUNITY hearing – just to find out if the law if effective. One change that should be made – is to insist that a NEW judge be chosen, after the IMMUNITY case is denied. Having the SAME Judge for the trial – is a matter of extreme bias on the part of the Judge.
Freddy is against an Immunity Hearing for Zimmerman, O’Mara must be on the right road.
Linda Drane Burdick, lead Prosecutor in the Anthony case said in court to Baez when he complained about getting thousand page DOC dumps only weeks before trial, “This is an on going investigation, we will investigate this case UNTIL the trial starts.”
It seems it is the right of the Prosecutors to continue to release information as they see fit, it seems the drip drip drip of information is common in these cases and although the State has seemly with held damning information such as the colored photo of GZ’s face, the State hasn’t violated the rules.
Perhaps not, but they are playing loose and fast with the rules, for instance the State has 15 after discovery to present the information to the defense. The State has violated that several times.
Can anyone remember if a cut-off date for the discovery order,was filed. I seem to think that there was, but I could be wrong.
The Amended Scheduling Order has a March 27 witness list deadline. I don’t see any discovery cutoff date.
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Amended%20Scheduling%20Order.pdf
Rule 3.220
(p) Pretrial Conference.
(1) The trial court may hold 1 or more pretrial conferences, with trial counsel present, to consider such matters as will promote a fair and expeditious trial. The defendant shall be present unless the defendant waives this in writing.
(2) The court may set, and upon the request of any party shall set, a discovery schedule, including a discovery cut-off date, at the pretrial conference.
I was referring to the hearing late last year when the schecule was talked about. Oct or Dec.
From Orlando Sentinel:
Zimmerman fund to meet $30,000 goal, defense says!
George Zimmerman’s defense fund announced today that it expects to meet its monthly goal of $30,000, money the defense says will be used to retain experts for his defense.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-fund-goal-20130219,0,5715077.story
Yea !!!!! Thats what I’m talking about…… Little people can move mountains . The weak are strong when they band togeather !!!! Thats my TEAM !!!!
From the fund site:
“Because, in part, of our success raising funds over the last 3 weeks, we have been able to secure the commitment of experts who are willing to work at reduced fees, and, in some cases, who are willing to defer their fees. We have many more experts to secure before the Court’s March 27th deadline, but your strong support has allowed us to make progress faster than we could have imagined.”
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/index.php/updates-2/17-zimmerman-defense-fund-meets-first-month-s-goal
I am so grateful and humbled the monies have been donated. Creative lawyering in approaching experts that will defer their fees to allow them to participate on GZ’s behalf.
I was afraid that perhaps the momentum had peaked, I am so glad I was wrong, this is great news for GZ’s team and the pursuit of a fair trial. Expert testimony is crucial in any case as the Defense has to counter EVERY expert the State presents, it has to be an expert in their field as they are always challenged by the opposing side.
Good news for the good guys.
This is the best news. I hope the momentum keeps up and they continue to get the donations they need to see this thing through.
That is great news for George!
AWESOME!!!!
Wow !! Nettles thank you for posting that.
OHH but the TrayFam Trashcan Tour is OKAY, GOTCHA… SMH
****
Corey B. King@coreybking 1 hr ago
@GZlegalCase @gzdefensefund This makes me physically ill that you are raising funds for this child murderer..may your soul rot in Hell!
mimi: I don’t get mad often but when I do it’s bad ! Corey King is full of crap and is one of those people that will always make excuses for teenagers who have bad behavior or hurt people. As far as corey wishing someones soul to rot in hell he/she better worry about there own soul !!!!!!! Because for a person to wish such a thing on someone else just because they don’t agree with them tells a hell of alot about them doesn’t COREY!!!!! I’m sure alot of people you know will meet YOU when YOU get there.
I totally agree Sha~ And this person is trying to get into the entertainment line of work? I think we have enough bad examples out there, do he/she not realize that some of the same people that he/she possibly is sending out audition tapes, may very well not agree with him/her and not want to have further contact?
mimi: I think some people don’t think past the moment in front of them….. they don’t think about there actions are the consequences that go with them. These are the same people who don’t know why there life is such a mess.
EXACTLY~~~~
arkansasmimi, I thought i heard your timer ding
LOL
Of course – until you realize that this “chile” was a 17 year-old thug – like these thugs. TM as beating Geroge, in the mouth, and the beating his head into the concrete. So they assume that George, had “no right to save his life”.
Yes there are black (culture) thugs. TM was one of them.
Well,……………since I can’t write any of the things I feel like saying about this, I will simply agree with you. Argggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone have a feed for the coverage of Shellie’s hearing today?
I didn’t even know it was going to be today. I thought it was going to be tomorrow, without her there and just get continued. At least that’s what it looks like according to the docket;
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A
I found this video and I swear @2:00 I heard her case being continued to April 17. WTF, I bet George wished he had that judge. A perjury case gets continued a million times till 2020 but a murder trial has to happen tomorrow with no continuances.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487272/Shellie-Zimmerman-Perjury
Kelly Sims video
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearing-20130219,0,2485508.story
Judge “Lazy” Nelson’s games could be stopped, if MOM and West wanted to. But they’re gonna have to make it official. Just going into her court and whining about how she’s acting isn’t gonna get it. They CAN get a continuance if they need it, regardless of what Nelson says. But it’s up to them to do what needs to be done. “We will NOT be ready by the date you have scheduled, and we’ve told you why. And we have no intention of moving forward to the hearing or the trial before we are reading. So hopefully you’ll see fit to adjust your scheduling. If not, we’ll be forced to go over your head.”
That’s a nice story, I wonder what the reality will be.
Pffttt!!!
ROFLMBO! Heard this on the radio a few ago and it reminds me of what the truth about the DogPound Female Dogs and the Traybots are
So much COOLER ON LINE
mimi: Dang ! mimi you forgot to tell me I could make up stuff when I was on line lol !
LOL! I love Brad Paisley! I heard that playing on radio and Those Traybots came to mind lol Fits then to a “T” with there umteen screen names
actually I’m cooler in person. Online I’m kinda … mmm IDK … bla I guess. Cute video !
Your COOL online too
awe thank you, mimi
+1
Weiner states not streaming hearing? Rene will be tweeting
Rene Stutzman@renestutzman 1 min
ShellieZimmerman has entered the courtroom. Her hearing has not yet started. #GeorgeZimmerman, #Trayvon Martin.
Rene Stutzman@renestutzman 20sec
ShellieZim hearing underway. Def atty says A.Corey never had jurisdiction to file perjury case#Zimmerman, #Trayvon:http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearing-20130219,0,2485508.story …
What else is there to say? “Corey did not have jurisdiction. See authorities cited in my brief.”
Rene Stutzman@renestutzman 60 sec
Judge in ShellieZim case: Charge stands. Corey has jurisdiction to prosecute her. #Zimmerman, #TrayvonMartin: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearing-20130219,0,2485508.story …
Now let’s find out exactly what statement the State is alleging was a lie. They fail to cite it in their affidavit for one count of perjury. What statement, in their opinion, was knowingly false? Is the defense left to guess?
Now on to appeals court?
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17890376808832470463&hl=en&as_sdt=2,45
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2003/1201-1400/03-1207_JurisIni.pdf
I agree JG…. They got to get any and everything they can about this case away from Florida to many people with something to lose by going against the grain.
Wow! Some of the tweets Ms. Stutzman is getting from State supporters are vile today. I won’t copy them and spread them but the reporter’s life is made miserable with this ugliness.
nettles18: Thats why so many people are afraid to speak up or report in favor of the defense.
If you write back to her, point out to her the difference between us (George’s supporters) and the Haters. Even back when Rene was writing totally biased pieces (as were all the media), I don’t think any of us posted vile, threatening comments to her, either privately or on Twitter, FB, etc. Compare that to what she gets from these scumbags. And WE are the ones accused of being bad people? Hmm…
Frances Robles told me she had a bad experience from people from this blog. I found that hard to believe.
Reporters have a tough job but they could make it easier on themselves by digging for answers. I’m surprised with how little investigation they do before it hits the paper (generally speaking).
Her bad experience *may have been* the sharing of sunlight upon her affilitation and professional alignment with fellow Miami Herald writer, and Global Grind author, and MSNBC contributor, Joy-Ann Reid.
Reid is the most staunch of advocates for the Black Grievance Industry within the legacy media. She is also the primary facilitator of manipulative storytelling from Natalie Jackson et al. Joy-Ann has a Loooooong history of such activity, up to and including the use of her husband’s employment in video production to advance agenda driven falsehoods….. LIKE THE EDITED NBC ZIMMERMAN TAPES….. Dig Deep.
Robert Zimmerman Jr@rzimmermanjr 56 sec ago
@CapehartJ If I were U, I’d B very careful what I printed as fact..UR clinging 2 a mis-nomerHere’s facts from ATTY-http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/13/zimmerman-defense-lawyers-wont-argue-tand-your-ground-in-florida-shooting-case/ …
John Capehart is another MSNBC professionally paid race-baiter under the guise of journalist/contributor.
Jeff Weiner@JeffWeinerOS 1 min
Judge has denied Shellie Zimmerman’s motion to dismiss her perjury case. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin
D-Man,
Rene is back. “She’s the wife of George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who’s accused of murdering Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, in Sanford one year ago.” At least she said, accused of.
You called it I wonder if this is just a template?
Shellie’s next docket sounding is April 17th. She was accused of lying on April 20th and no trial date in sight. The affidavit doesn’t tell the court or the defense which statement Shelly gave that was knowingly false.
GZ was arrested for murder on April 11th and his trial date looms ahead. Very strange.
“The affidavit doesn’t tell the court or the defense which statement Shelly gave that was knowingly false.”
IIRC, the information also selectively omits a portion of SZ’s testimony from a quote.
I recall that too. Here is a good write-up on it. http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06/perjury-charge-against-shellie-zimmerman-raises-more-questions-of-prosecutorial-overreaching/
The edited transcript is described in the artilce by bolding the part of Mrs. Zimmerman’s statement the prosecutor left out. My skills at bolding still need some work, so I encourge you to get it from the link.
It appears my skills at proof-reading need some work too. Sorry.
Well we wondered if the Governor could somehow extend Angela Corey’s authority to prosecute Shellie, and it looks like he can, according to this article from the OS:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearing-20130219,0,2485508.story
I suppose that Corey will be happy to know this. I wonder if she can now use her authority to investigate Ben Crump’s involvement with witness’s 8, 5,16. 14, and 18? Nahhhhh should would NEVER do that!
Will Nelson permit a deposition of Crump to explore those and other issues?
From the article,
“Sims left the courthouse, predicting that Shellie Zimmerman would be acquitted.
If you study carefully the questions she was asked, he said, she answered truthfully.
“It’s all about specificity,” he said.
He did not elaborate.”
I think he’s right. Every statement she gave can be argued to be truthful. That’s why the State didn’t list the statement she gave that was knowingly false in their affidavit. They can’t find one!
If you research Shellie’s first attorney, the one who dumped her, you’ll find a considerable irony – he is just like o’mara. Shelly has a good attorney now.
Here is Kelly Sims interview following court today. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487178/Shellie-Zimmermans-attorney-speaks-out-about-perjury-case
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/08/03/the-closed-circle-of-the-court-house-crowd-orlando-florida-what-did-michael-s-herring-stand-to-lose-everything/
Thank you. I read that at the time it was posted.
Did you catch today that John Guy in the hearing told the Judge the Governor was very SPECIFIC on their role in the Trayvon Martin case. I think that irked Kelly Sims. The irony is rich so to speak.
Raw data of hearing here:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487272/Shellie-Zimmerman-Perjury
In his interview posted at the Orlando Sentinel afterwards, Mr Sims used the term SPECIFICITY and that it applies in Shellie’s case. I’m sure he will be pointing out the State doesn’t SPECIFY what statement Shellie made in court that she knowingly gave a false answer in their affidavit. Yes, he is going to make the State get very specific.
Post Hearing Interview here:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487178/Shellie-Zimmermans-attorney-speaks-out-about-perjury-case
Good luck to them picking one. I believe there isn’t one.
Shellie you looked great! Stay strong!!
Big bald black guy w/ light color jacket / pants and black shirt = body guard ?
I recognize him from the pictures of escorting George into court.
http://imgur.com/Wv67wRC
He mustn’t be from the extremely expensive firm.
Can you imagine being one of the random people sitting in that courtroom, just waiting for their little misdemeanor case to be called, and you hear the judge go, “Next up, we have the State of Florida vs. Shellie Zimmerman”.
“Shellie you looked great! Stay strong!!
She really does! The arrest picture of her did not do her justice.
Praying that she and GZ can get through this tunnel of darkness and find some light of joy again.
Yes, Shellie, I agree. You looked so composed and dignified. Keep it up. There is so much support for you and George. Just be strong and know people care.
George and Shellie : Just remember that a man or woman is not defeated when they lose they are defeated when they give up !
I thought Shellie looked good today and held her head up. I agree with her attorney that she is a strong woman. Keep standing Shellie!
jfp: I think she looked great and I think she is a very strong women and I’m glad that she is with George because a weaker woman would have gave up by now.
I’ve assembled a video dealing with the issue of whether or not George was “running” after he got out of his car. (I believe he was not) and I’d appreciate any feedback on it anyone here has:
If anyone is willing to subscribe to my channel there on YouTube I’d appreciate that too, I’ve been working hard on pro-GZ videos for a while. Btw I appreciate myopiafree continuing to post the one about swinging on bus drivers, which YouTube unfortunately yanked from my channel way back when. I have a “magnum opus” pro-GZ video in the works now, but a recent problem with my main hard drive has set me back on it a bit. Still hoping to have it done soon… I’ve put a lot of work into it, and I hope it will turn out well.
just awesome Unicron! great work!
Interesting. There are also some flashlight tapping sounds (?) later in the NEN recording which might tend to indicate that Z was stopped.
Other topics for potential exploration: can you hear grass? can you hear a little bit of “get off get off” ?
You want that too?
It WAS just “a little” get off…get off…what do you expect from grass?!?
I forgot…the “grass” may have been threatened in to silence also….as had some of the other witnesses.
I was thinking you might have added time and dates of your “experiment” and weather info for those dates AND like JG said…hold the phone to the grass…see what it had to say/comment…
I forgot to say…Good job Unicron….the sarcasm was not aimed at you…just wanted to try to make some unreal stories up myself before I read them somewhere at JQ or elsewhere.
A TM supporter had a meteorological chart for that evening, he was using to attempt to prove that TM had sought shelter due to the rain. In that same chart the wind speeds were listed. As I remember that night had wind gust upwards of 15 miles per hour, I remember I was trying to match the gusts to the call to NEN and they seemed to be slightly off.
It was not until later that the correct timeline of the NEN call was released. I wonder if with the correct times for the call, the wind gusts will match up with GZ’s call now. Does anyone else remember this?
BINGO !!! it’s #3 and I’ve said that all along. Cause I make videos and I knew what that sound was immediately. This is why professional reporters, etc. use the fuzzy/foam covers over their microphones. AND you will still get wind noise even with the covers. Think about when they cover the hurricanes … you know .. the guy is getting pelted with rain and the wind is blowing him around. But I know for a fact you can just have a slight breeze and have the sound of that breeze end up on your recording. You did a very good just demonstrating on that video.
ADMINS You have Mail
Sundance, you have true grit. The Truth Has No Agenda even when it is not what one would like to hear. Wolverines!
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/06/19/the-zimmerman-case-it-is-far-bigger-than-shellie-or-george/
It was good to read that thread over again. I think people are not getting that the president of the United States is involved to the extent he is. This case has an agenda of black power and socialism. People need to wake up and smell the coffee.
If this mess makes it to trial it might be due to Fla. Stat. 776.031.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.—A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1189, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2005-27.
Here is something to consider.
http://www.michaelorlandolaw.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-and-floridas-stand-your-ground-law-2/
Wow, who knew? The pertinent Florida Standard Jury Instructions don’t say “he didna hafta git oudda cawr.”
Ha, I had never noticed this part of the law/instructions:
“Physical abilities. In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of the defendant and (victim)”
The Trayvonites are always whining that the differences in size and athletic abilities between Trayvon and George are irrelevant, and likewise the 7-11 video is irrelevant for that purpose. But… looks like they are WRONG… once again, WRONG.
But Trayvon was an honor student.
Otherwise known as disparity of force. Not only did Martin have inherent disparity of force against Zimmerman, given his height, musculature, youth, athleticism, and fighting skills, but he also established further disparity of force against Zimmerman, by mounting him, and forcibly restraining him and preventing him from getting up.
That disparity of force is further support that Zimmerman met the “reasonable fear” threshold.
Joe Biden on self defense: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/19/Biden-shotguns-Facebook?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
“I said, ‘Jill, if there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here … walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house.’
Then get down behind the pile of sandbags Jill, before the neighbor returns fire with his AR.
You seriously kill me, John Galt.
Biden is an idiot. You would get arrested for illegal discharge of a fire arm.
I copied this from a facebook post. A lesson to look long-term not just in the moment.
A young boy enters a barber shop and the barber whispers to his customer, “This is the dumbest kid in the world. Watch while I prove it to you.” The barber puts a dollar bill in one hand and two quarters in the other, then calls the boy over and asks, “Which do you want, son?” The boy takes the quarters and leaves. “What did I tell you?” said the barber. “That kid never learns!” Later, when the customer leaves, he sees the same young boy coming out of the ice cream store. “Hey, son! May I ask you a question? Why did you take the quarters instead of the dollar bill?” The boy licked his cone and replied, “Because the day I take the dollar, the game is over!”
Ha, ha, ha. Great little story. You can’t always take things at face value.
LOL ! I like that….