Tuesday Open Thread – February 5th

Tomb of the Unknown ChristmasOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but DELIVER US FROM EVIL.

For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever. Amen †

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101 Responses to Tuesday Open Thread – February 5th

  1. justfactsplz says:

    I just discovered a great new channel on direc t.v., channel 605.tac t.v. It is a gun channel and is very interesting. I thought all of you gun enthusiasts might enjoy checking it out.

  2. WeeWeed says:

    A Happy Birthday today to brutalhonesty!! May you have a perfect day!! :D

     photo hb6_zpsd664fc0e.jpg

  3. WeeWeed says:

    Ramirez scrupulously avoided making light of O’Skeet’s official pResidential portrait, as well.

     photo ram57_zps65db2977.jpg

    • stellap says:

      Excellent! Good morning, WeeWeed!

      • WeeWeed says:

        Mornin’ Stellap! Good news! Spring will be here shortly… our bluebonnets are up! Not blooming yet, of course, but up outta the ground! :D

        • stellap says:

          The eternal promise of Spring! Thanks for telling me that, Wee. Right now all I can see is snow – and more snow. And it’s as cold as a witch’s you-know-what. Intellectually, I know the snow drops and crocuses are waiting to push their little heads out of the ground, but not yet, alas.

          • Sharon says:

            I am still getting used to the delightful fact that here in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, the daffodils are out of the ground (about 3-4″); the tulips are out about 2″; the crocuses are beginning to stick their noses out; the fat sedum heads are beginning to poke their new growth out; the primroses, most of which survived the winter just fine, are in fresh bloom. So weird and so wonderful. Believe me, I do not “gloat” over the colder conditions where many of you are–I know full well what blizzards in May are like, and 25 below zero in March–so no way do I take this new luxury for granted. It’s in the 30’s at night and high 40’s in the daytime right now. So, contrary to MN where we had 5 months of winter, and the other 3 seasons had to share 7 months the best they could–here we seem to have 5 months of spring. Works for me.

            Last fall I discovered in our local amazing nursery a new perennial they were working on and grabbed one: a huge chocolate cosmos! Yes, indeed! This lovely flower is the color of chocolate, and has the fragrance of chocolate–and everything else the characteristics of cosmos! Chocolate flowers–who knew. Can bacon flowers be far behind….

            So it’s coming, stellap! I do believe that folks who do not live, and have never lived for long periods of time, in the upper midwest really do not understand why spring is such an amazing relief. Spring never feels like a “gift” in this sense there–it’s earned!

    • Sharon says:

      The comments under the Ted Nugent piece are hilarious, Weed! These are my two favorites:

      Daniel Harbin> deskpilot•8 hours ago

      I must admit a couple of my guns sneaked off one night to shoot up some local cats. (don’t tell Puddy!) I admonished them and told them I would give them to some gang bangers if they continued in this atrocious behavior. Well they straightened up and now are good citizens. They have not disobeyed me since I put the fear of god in them.

      MorseAlhambra> Daniel Harbin•2 hours ago−

      Well, that’s a good thing, too. My guns are pretty well behaved, although my old Mauser 97 sometimes mutters German in its sleep… something about Ypres

      • michellc says:

        I read similar comments somewhere the other day. I can’t recall where now, but they had me busting out laughing.

        Someone had commented about how many guns had killed people and hilarious comments followed.
        The one that I can still remember was, “you may be on to something. There has been several occassions when I’ve been awakened by loud banging going on in the safe. It always gets quiet when I get out of bed, so I think they were returning from their night of mischief. I may need to set them down and have a serious conversation with them. Thank you for finally opening my eyes to the fact that those guns are killers.”

  4. stellap says:

    This is for WW and me:

     photo bluebonnets.jpg

    If winter comes, can spring be far behind?

  5. cajunkelly says:

    Have a good ‘un folks, I’m off to make the donuts. I feel confident that you Treepers will stay abreast of the Z hearing so I’ll catch up when I’ve run out of dough and powdered sugar. :wink:

  6. Sharon says:

    Chicago cops just announced they won’t be responding to burglary calls–or any crime scene where the criminals have already left. Isn’t it great!


    – the citizens can’t have any weapons to protect themselves or their homes and the cops won’t be coming. Yeah, no, I don’t see how any of that can be a problem, at all. Chicago should be crime-free within a week.

    (the link is into the comments section–don’t know how that happened–just scroll up for the post)

    • stellap says:

      Detroit PD has been doing this for months. Of course, our Detroit citizens can legally have weapons for their own protection.

    • Josh says:

      I thought this has been the course for the past several YEARS!

    • Patriot Dreamer says:

      So you can’t legally own a firearm to defend yourself and the cops won’t defend you either (and don’t think about suing the cops – SCOTUS has already decided that they are under no duty to defend you). Where does that leave law-abiding citizens? Sitting ducks.

    • Sharon says:

      Make sure it’s nice and legal before you start killing your citizens.

      This piece of work has broken many laws without any cover at all–unlike Hitler who was actually quite fastidious about getting everything lined up nice and proper.

      I wonder why he thought to create the paperwork for attacking Americans…actually, I don’t. Just seems proper that we should act a little bit surprised or mystified or something, doesn’t it?

      …………and the ACLU’s actually ticked off and up in arms! Now I am getting worried. Never thought I’d be grateful to hear the ACLU chime in on an issue….does that make them rightwing extremists then? Since they disagree with him? They’d better be careful….he’s got the authority to bomb them to smithereens now and never has to say why he did it.

  7. Bijou says:

    This was waiting for me in my ‘inbox’ this morning.
    It’s a great way to start the day (although youse guys did that HOURS ago). :)
    Japanese girls play Benny Goodman’s “Swing, Swing”. I think he would approve.

  8. czarowniczy says:

    More stuff going on in the background while you’re distracted elsewhere:

    (1) A concept from the 90s is raising its ugly head again – international control of immigration. Immigration/exmigration would NOT be controlled by the countries the migrants are leaving from or going to but rather by a UN agency or an international NGO. This/these agency(s) would say who and how many get to go where. The concept has been revived and is floating around the Administration – both the Republicans and Democrats like it as they could both shrug their shoulders as the country becomes filled with immigrants as it wouldn’t be their fault, the UN/NGO did it.

    (2) Last night while I was cruising my news page none other than my MS Windows homepage pops up a report that NBC has a copy of a classified document the Federal lawyers built giving the Administration extralegal right to target and kill US citizens with drone strikes without benefit of due process. Now at its face the document appears to e a justification of kills outside of the US BUT when you read it you do not see anything that specifically says that it could not be done inside of the US. Nay sayers would pooh-pooh the idea that a Constitutional ‘lawyer’ POtuS would ever do such a horrendous thing BUT the absence of the assurance is troubling. The document allows the POtuS to strip a citizens Constitutional rights to a trial by his/her peers if the person is declared to be involved in attacking/planning an attack on the US. It is a short step to apply that judgement to a citizen inside of the US, and presidents have taken far larger steps than that before. Paranoid? F.’A’ R.

    • stellap says:

      I just heard Mike Rogers (rep from Michigan, who is Chairman of the Intelligence Committee) talk about this on our local radio talker. He says they have had this for months, and it is not what you might think. It concerns citizens only outside the Conus. Citizens at home would be subject to arrest, no more.

      • czarowniczy says:

        Yes, and the Japanese US citizens during WW II though their Constitution applied to them too. All you have to do is sit in an office with a DA who’s trying to parse the law in order to arrest someone when there’s no crystal-clear basis and you can see how I’m more than a bit worried about this piece. Nowhere in the paper does it say this does not nor will not apply to US citizens inside of the US. This could be held in the back pocket of this or a future president, sent back to the sycophant lawyers at DoJ for a’ decision’ and made to apply. In rebuttal I give you the works being done at His DoJ to redefine the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

        • stellap says:

          Have you read the entire paper? I have not yet.

          • czarowniczy says:

            Yes, I tried to download it and cut/paste it but the site locked up my system. I want a copy to take to a lawyer friend who worked for the Feds to see what he thinks.

            • stellap says:

              Does your friend have email? You could send him a link to the pdf. Either that, or print it and then scan to your own pdf.

              • czarowniczy says:

                I’m going to get a copy from another source, playing with that last mess made me itchy. I’ve never been on a site that locked my system up like that without tripping something on my firewall.

                • WeeWeed says:

                  I could try emailing it to you, if you’d like.

                  • czarowniczy says:

                    Finally managed to download it from another site. 1st paragraph still makes me nervous. “…circumstances in which the US government could use lethal force in a foreign country outside the area of active hostilities against a US citizen…”. Go back to the Iran-Contra hearings and review how the lawyers sliced and diced the laws so thinly they were transparent. OK, could use lethal force in a foreign country outside the area of active hostilities…”. Wouldn’t, using a strict interpretation of that, mean the US would a foreign country outside of the ‘area of active hostilities (Afghanistan)…”? You cannot pooh-pooh things just because you wish to make a literal straight-line interpretation of something. Lawyers do that all of the time: “I did not have sex with that woman”. People laugh at that but he was putting a fine parse on the law and he got away with it.

        • stellap says:

          Here is the introductory paragraph of the paper. You will notice the emphasis on foreign country:

          “This white paper sets forth a legal framework for considering the circumstances in which the U.S. government could use lethal force in a foreign country outside the area of active hostilities against a U.S. citizen who is a senior operational leader of al-Qa’ida or an associated force of al-Qa’ida – that is, an al-Qa’ida leader actively engaged in planning operations to kill Americans. The paper does not attempt to determine the minimum requirements necessary to render such an operation against a U.S. citizen lawful in other circumstances, including an operation against enemy forces on a traditional battlefield or an operation against a U.S. citizen who is not a senior operational leader of such forces. Here the Department of Justice concludes only that where the following three conditions are met, a U.S. operation using lethal force in a foreign country against a U.S. citizen who is a senior operational leader of al-Qa’ida or an associated force would be lawful: (1) an informed, high-level official of the U.S. government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; (2) capture is infeasible, and the United States continues to monitor whether capture becomes feasible; and (3) the operation would be conducted in a manner consistent with applicable law of war principles. This conclusion is reached with recognition of the extraordinary seriousness of a lethal operation by the United States against a U.S. citizen, and also of the extraordinary seriousness of the threat posed by senior operational al-Qa’ida members and the loss of life that would result were their operations successful.”

          • WeeWeed says:

            Judge Napolitano says it DOES suggest that O’Skeet can kill whomever when and wherever he wants to. The Judge is not amused.

          • Sharon says:

            When our nation has domestic enemies who have proven their willingness to evade or openly violate laws that have been on the books for generations–handing them a piece of paper like this, foreign country and “al queda” specifications notwithstanding, is just a horrifying hunting license. They will kill whoever they want to kill and if necessary, eventually claim that killing the lady from Topeka who was just standing in St. Peter’s Square with her mouth hanging open as she gazes about, was just an honest mistake based on confusing intel.

            It’s a human hunting license. And that brings to mind another question: why does he suddenly need paperwork? He’s been working his kill list for at least a couple of yeras now without any paper cover.

            • stellap says:

              I didn’t hear every word of the interview, but I believe Rogers said that his committee asked for this paper from DOJ.

          • czarowniczy says:

            Yes, again it does NOT specifically say that it cannot be used against a US citizen inside of the US. Usually position papers and decision, like laws, are more detailed as to situations and circumstances. The omission of that detail, and my background with the Feds, makes me a bit nervous. Whoever wrote that was smart enough to parse the law and obviously has worked with the Feds long enough to be trusted with writing that, and you bet it was reviewed by even more lawyers in DoJ, the CIA’s in house lawyer staff and the Administration’s lawyers, all in CYA mode. And no one caught that?

            • stellap says:

              It says that three conditions must be met for “a U.S. operation using lethal force in a foreign country against a U.S. citizen who is a senior operational leader of al-Qa’ida or an associated force”. I’m not a lawyer, but that seems specific. That’s bad enough. Anyway, what set me off is that the NBC piece specifically omits that wording. Now why would NBC do that?

              • czarowniczy says:

                It’s a fine point. What the paper is saying is that the president may, violate international law by crossing a sovereign international border without that country’s permission to kill a person (citizenship aside), ignoring the internal laws of that country. This is akin to the US authorizing American troops, during the Vietnam War, to secretly go into sovereign Laos and Cambodia and commit acts of war without Congressional approval. There is nothing in the paper that specifically prohibits the President from extending these action inside of US borders, Point: let’s say the individual was targeted inside of Afghanistan planning an attack on the US, the go-ahead to ice him was given and, before he could be targeted, he returns to the US. What prohibits the US from whacking him on US soils, sort of like international hot-pursuit? Let’s say the Prez decides to whack a US citizen inside of the US who’s actively working with, e.g., al Qaeda. He has the authorization to kill said person overseas without due process, which is the main hurdle, all he needs is another paper saying that this one does not specifically prohibit him from doing so (not necessarily ‘authorizes him to do so, just does not prohibit under this determination) and he’s off to the races. Generally those laws written to prohibit or allow something are very detailed so as to hamstring defense attorneys and ensure a conviction upon violation. This paper makes me nervous. Then again, we have to look no farther than Barry Seal to see that a government whacking don’t need no stinkin’ paper.

                • yankeeintx says:

                  I understand exactly what you are saying. If a US citizen is killed on US soil, people will scream that they only had permission to do that in a foreign country. The response will be, “but we never said it didn’t apply to within US also”. They will just say that the document was in response to a killing outside the US, and they weren’t specifically responding to their policy inside the US.

                  • czarowniczy says:

                    Exactly. In the government unless you expressly forbid something it’s still on the table. In court, when the law’s against you, you argue the facts. When the facts are against you you argue the law.

    • Josh says:

      The UN is one of THE MOST corrupt entities there is!
      I know this is news to no one I just had to state the obvious.

  9. Josh says:

    I’m finding it interesting how many stories (at least 4 in the past two weeks alone) of tour bus accidents – from Miami to California. Two of them tried to run their bus under a not-so-high bridge. I believe there were deaths in all the 4 I’ve heard about.

  10. Josh says:

    State reneges on solar rebate promise
    $26 million worth of broken promises
    Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/state-reneges-on-solar-rebate-promise#ixzz2K30e2jMP

  11. Josh says:

    Okay, maybe it’s because I’m not a fan of Will Ferrell but I am soooooo skeeved out by this commercial. I’m glad I already ate because I find it’s easier to throw something up rather than endure the dry heaves.
    Will Ferrell’s Old Milwaukee New Unaired Super Bowl XLVII Commercial – Super bowl…

  12. czarowniczy says:

    Wonder if, looking back at ‘provocative films’, one of Obama’s first orders to Kerry will be to apologize to the North Koreans for our being such an international bully and pariah that they were forced to make this film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UmPDhxLMUc

    • WeeWeed says:

      Impossible. I’m sure Doomberg has already banned nucular missiles. The Norks will have to go to D.C., instead.

      • czarowniczy says:

        Either that or the translation was wrong and the missile was loaded to deliver 1000 KG of bad kimchee (not that there’s such a thing as ‘good’ kimchee) for an over-NYC airburst.

        • WeeWeed says:

          Hmmmm….. well, I haven’t seen kimchee on his banned list….yet….

          • czarowniczy says:

            I’m sure that it’s classified as a WMD – weapon of massive diarrhea

            • WeeWeed says:

              :lol: :lol: Is it as awful as nuoc mam?? :D

              • czarowniczy says:

                Rotted fish versus rotted vegetation. I served with the Koreans in Vietnam so I got the worst of two worlds though, with the assistance of Tabasco sauce, I learned to persevere. In 1999 I was sent back to Korea to work an exercise for 90 days. As I’d worked with and understood Korean military they put me in a small, locked room inside of a huge cave with the Korean team on the graveyard shift. I’d dine with the Koreans at their mess hall and for the two meals we’d eat there a day I had kimchee with. Imagine, if you can, six people eating fried eggs and kimchee and then locked into a 10 by 12 room. Let’s just say the ceiling was green but wasn’t painted as such.

    • stellap says:

      It’s ironic. The video is from an American-made video game, and the music was composed by an American composer.

  13. ctdar says:

    Flash mobs attacking in NYC, what the shopowners need are video cameras & attack dogs.

    • ytz4mee says:

      Yep, we saw one happen right in front of us. They all came swarming from the projects across the street and rushed into a convenience store, pulling stuff off shelves, ransacking the store, screaming, shouting …..

      Unfortunately for them the Korean shop owners fought back with baseball bats so it didn’t work out quite the way they thought, since they were able to grab a few and pin them down for the police.

  14. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Mika Admits: Under Bush, Drone Strike Memo Would Have Caused ‘Huge Controversy’


    So it’s OK when their “team” does it.

  15. WeeWeed says:


    Comment by America The Beautiful:

    “..The constitution is being dismantled…Obama and Holder are thumbing their collective noses at American law…They killed those in Benghazi…held back any help from coming…stood by and watched…He likes to watch…so says WHI
    …Fired the military who would not immediately stand down..kicked those loyal Generals and Admirals to the constitution….kicked them the curb…

    Look around at our Gulag…Feel the discomfort the Jews felt in Germany …but did nothing, now you understand what they felt…initially. we are being ruled by a lawless minority of BLT communist thugs…

    Impeach before its too late..Arm yourselves…not sure it will help much…those drones are effective.

    Same topic…Different day:

    The missiles used in Syria by AlQaeda and in the Algeria hostages and coldblooded murders now so easily ignored and forgotten…Arms were all from Benghazi..English press has that….proved that it was the same from he Turkish ship that left the port outside Benghazi that took some or all.. of the missing 40,000 missiles and manpads Chaffetz referred to in Benghazi hearings…including Stinger missiles through the conduit of Turkey into Syria…That explains the Turkish counsel meeting with Stevens that night of 9/11… Stevens was supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, our new ally and recipient of our tax dollars… and worked with AlQaeda…. Lindsey Graham is right…there will be more Benghazi’s…already are.

    Stevens was the arms dealer for Obama…Although he had just left a meeting in DC with Senator Inhoef…Muslim Brotherhood sure does want their Blind Sheik…What will Obama do to accomplish that?

    Did any find it interesting that the same day Petraeus resigned over his affair… the COO of Lockheed resigned over HIS affair too…this Lochkeed COO was supplier of the illegal arms.for an illegal, unconstitutional war… in defiance off Congress and our Constitution…and arming America’s enemies..

    Does any in DC find it interesting that Lockheed TRIPLED their sales in 2011 under this fleeing COO ?? Are Petraeus and Lockheed being threatened into silence by the DOJ? Real patriots…Ha

    Was Stevens gottten rid of so he could not talk? Why was he cremated in Libya before being shipped back to America? That never happens when an American official has been murdered..yet our press..crickets…

    Why no pics of Stevens alive being carried out and carried through the streets of Benghazi with his shorts first on beneath his trousers… and then his shorts off and over his Muslim captors shoulder? No questions from our government??

    Why no investigation into “Sarai Jimenez” Sierra who made the “Khalid Said video” (tortured by Mubareks men) the video that was the match that lit the fire and brought down Mubarek and caused Egypt to burn in riots in the laughably named Arab “Spring” that turned Egypt and other nations over to The Muslim Brotherhood?….IslamoCommunists..and what of her brother David Jimenez employed at Intellegence and National Security Alliance, previously Homeland Security, IALEIA Global Intelligence and taught at Military University…

    Did her murderers simply mix up the women?…. because the NY Jimenez photographer had the same name as the Jimenez Arab Spring videographer? Jimenez was not staying in a hotel, but a flat, and neither her purse, wallet or jewelry or phone were stolen…she was beaten to death…Did they mix these women up or are they one in the same and Jimenez was on a covert Muslim Brotherhood mission into Turkey…were Obama’s good friend reigns…”

    • ctdar says:

      Chris Stevens was cremated in libya before transferred back to US? That’s the first I’ve heard of that.

      • Sharon says:

        I’ve not heard that before either. This is a commenter from the Ulstermann thread who doesn’t provide citation for any of the statements, so who knows. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least…but there’s no explanation given for the statement…

  16. WeeWeed says:

    Reg Presley, lead singer of The Troggs, has died…

  17. ctdar says:

    Oh, go figure, one founder of ground zero mosque diverted @$167000 educational funds (earmarked to combat anti islam sentiments) from the non profit for personal use. :twisted:

  18. WeeWeed says:

    Watchin’ Prepper re-runs right now – this one idiot family is only prepping food, no arms – “if marauding bands of massively armed whatevers come through here, we’ll just invite ‘em to our feast….”
    I have a particular oath for people this stupid. Consider it said…. :roll:

  19. ctdar says:

    Posted this on Chris Kyle thread but thought worth adding here.
    Chris Kyle murder update, includes suspects sister’s 911 call:

    in the article BIL said suspect Routh was recently released from psych hospital after threatening his entire family last fall. If that is true, i do not understand how Kyle’s spidee sense did not pick up on Routh’s behavior? This story is just too sewn up/gift wrapped perfect for me.

    • WeeWeed says:

      Ain’t it, though??

    • michellc says:

      They can not make me believe that he turned his back on anyone with a gun, friend or foe. He grew up with firearms, he was a hunter, he went to war, he was a sniper, he had a bounty on his head and a target on his back. You might take one or two of those and say he acted out of character, but you can’t take all that he was and buy he acted out of character.
      If that makes me a conspiracy theorist then I’m a conspiracy theorist, if it makes me paranoid then I’m paranoid. At this point in this country, imo, anyone who is not questioning anything and everything are the ones who are crazy.
      If they manage to capture me without killing me first, I swear I’m concealing some sort of weapon and can’t be responsible if I use it on some of these people if they bunk me with them in their concentration camp.

  20. stellap says:

    Major Quake Sparks Tsunami Warning in Pacific
    Tsunami warning issued after a magnitude 8.0 earthquake is reported in the Pacific Ocean
    near the Solomon Islands (FoxNews)


  21. ctdar says:

    Hannity has MOM on now

  22. Hello, dahlings…haven’t had a chance to really read today, don’t know if this has been shared yet. This guy is no bullsh!t.

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