01-05 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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150 Responses to 01-05 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. diwataman says:

    Just in case those subpoena’s don’t pan out, this might offer some hope.

    Library of Congress digs in to full archive of 170 billion tweets
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57562210-93/library-of-congress-digs-in-to-full-archive-of-170-billion-tweets/

    Twitter rolls out option to download tweet archive
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559448-93/twitter-rolls-out-option-to-download-tweet-archive/

  2. brutalhonesty says:

    LMFAO its our favorite tray-zombie Eric!!! What a baby. The State is catering to george which is why hes on trial and everything????
    http://www.change.org/petitions/judge-nelson-change-george-zimmerman-s-court-date
    Petitioning Judge Nelson
    Judge Nelson: Change George Zimmerman’s Court Date

    Petition by
    Eric Jordan-Garrett
    Sacramento, CA

    I am simply outraged. George Zimmermans next court date is Feb. 5th. Trayvon would be turning 18. It seems that the state of Florida is catering to George Zimmerman. Why would the judge or the prosecution make this court date? Are you trying to rub this in the Martin Family’s face? They have lost their son to senseless gun violence from this dangerous man. Why should they have to suffer on Trayvon’s Birthday? I feel this is mockery. I feel that the courts are trying to diminish Trayvon’s character and spirit. We want this court date changed. This is direspectful. This is disgusting. I am asking all the true Trayvon Martin supporters to sign this petition so Judge Nelson can re arrange this court date. The Martins have been through enough this past year. They do not need any more drama with a fresh new year. Let Trayvon rest in peace, not in mockery.

  3. brutalhonesty says:

    We need a campaign with actual logistics and rallys and stuff. this is why the left wins all the time, because they have mastered it, while we just share our beliefs with each other. what if george has a few famous people speaking out for him? what if several hundred or thousand gz supporters rallied outside the court on feb 5 and demanded the charges be dropped, and justice be served and crump et al arrested? what if omara or beasly hired a pr firm?
    this is bigger than george. he can be proven innocent all we want, they wont care they want their justice. they said so. no justice no peace. you know what that means. if they dont get their way, they will riot. people will take sides. the truth needs to be out there before this can happen. there are too many people who dont know anything about this case other than what julison had put out…who will never know the facts because the media has dropped this like a hot potato. all they will know is gz walked, and wont know why, will play the race card, and riot.
    i dunno, maybe its because the right tends not too have all that freetime to organize since they are too busy being productive members of society….sure its easy to get a huge rally when everyone who shows up gets welfare.

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      “all they will know is gz walked, and won’t know why…”

      That’s what ticks me off the most. But its their own darn fault. Even if Obama himself preempted every television station in the country for 48 hours and showed the world that GZ is innocent using charts, graphs, Powerpoint, paper dolls, annotated 911 calls with commentary, legal experts, live actors, reenactments….they’d sit sit in the corner and rock, mumbling, “he shouldn’t have gotten out of the car….he shouldn’t have gotten out of the car….”

      They do not understand that the law is not flexible according to your desires. Getting out of a vehicle is not illegal – yeah, they WANT it to be in this case, but its not. “Wishing” it does not make it so. Similarly, the same type of people like to say, “Weed’s not bad, weed doesn’t hurt anybody, it should be legal so I’m going to smoke it.” Then they complain when they’re arrested.

      The same people like to also complain they received a speeding ticket for going 55 in a 35 because, “it shouldn’t be 35 in that area anyway!”

      They also like to believe it should be legal to break someone’s nose for nothing more than “looking at you.”

      • rumpole2 says:

        That’s what ticks me off the most. But its their own darn fault. Even if Obama himself preempted every television station in the country for 48 hours and showed the world that GZ is innocent using charts, graphs, Powerpoint, paper dolls, annotated 911 calls with commentary, legal experts, live actors, reenactments….they’d sit sit in the corner and rock, mumbling, “he shouldn’t have gotten out of the car….he shouldn’t have gotten out of the car….”

        Very well said.
        Their notions are fixed…. set in stone.
        Their mantra is: “Everyone is entitled to an opinion”….. and it is true that we can all speculate on what is the truth.. but there is only ONE reality. The logical way to analyse things is to speculate, but then test that theory against known facts, and to modify, or even abandon, that theory as facts come to light.
        Traybots do not get it.
        Traybots will always believe that a child buying candy for his little brother was gunned down (for no good reason) by a fat white racist, whose entire family and circle of friends were evil people, who hired despicable devious attorneys, and who is supported by racist bog sites like CTH.

        • TandCrumpettes says:

          Exactly. Their entire theory is based on the original narrative as it was put forth by the media early on. That’s all they needed to hear. They didn’t hang around to see it fall apart. Those who have, fight it tooth and nail.

          What I don’t understand is this – why would some people rather believe that something truly heinous happened, rather than accept the truth that this is a tragic, though not malicious, event?

          Wouldn’t it make you feel better about humanity to know a “child” was NOT shot for no reason? That the family is not evil? That George is not racist?

          • rumpole2 says:

            I honestly do not think “feeling better about humanity” comes into it.
            Their hobby is HATE. Most are online all day, and whatever case they “follow” it is to post firstly about any named suspect, who they are sure is guilty (regardless of the evidence), and then to post hate about the the defendant once there is an arrest. They go way beyond any facts of the case, and into personal attacks about appearance etc.
            They almost always label the defendant a “sociopath” it is the favoured label and applied in every case that I can recall. :)
            And they always include ANYBODY who remotely supports a defendant… his family, friends… his legal team… everybody… the hate ‘em all.
            And….. they have no personal involvement in cases at all… it really does not effect them whatever the outcome is…. yet they claim to be totally involved.

            • TandCrumpettes says:

              You noticed everyone is a sociopath too? Sigh…I love armchair psychiatry.

              • mung says:

                And the ones who make those comments are the ones who fit the DSM-IV criteria of personality disorders 9 times out of 10.

              • rumpole2 says:

                Just a thought about Traybots in general.. and Trolls who go out Proselytising the words of the Alpha Cretins at other sites.

                They do not understand that their “theories” amount to nothing more than unsubstantiated supposition.

                And there is no answer to that other than to say “That is unsubstantiated supposition” and walk away. Sundance expresses it best when he warns of the dangers of following these dopes down a “rabbit hole” You end up in a warren… a maze of passages and get nowhere.

                Discussing this case with them is analogous to debating somebody who is convince that there is a giant, pink, but invisible spidr covering the entire surface of the dark side of the moon. Where would you start? Ask them how they know it’s pink perhaps? But that misses the point!!! You are NEVER going to get anywhere debating such a person. Their belief is set in stone. EXACTLY like the Traybots.

              • rumpole2 says:

                Oh Noes… my post awaiting approval!!!!!
                I am very very very very,,, sorry!!!! (Whatever I did) :D
                Please don’t leave me locked in the Coal Cellar (Spam Filter)

            • lovemygirl says:

              I just say, Kick their ARSE if they complain when George is free!

            • lovemygirl says:

              From a local sociopath, though supportive. I agree that they will never accept George going free but they will soon forget it during their next crisis.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                “…but they will soon forget it during their next crisis.”

                No, the TrayHuggers WON’T forget it, no matter the outcome. That is the very nature of their existence. They manufactured controversy for the sole purpose of creating a “cause celebre”, and then used that cause to justify their continued ranting. If they somehow wind up on the “winning side” then they will claim the victory is the result of their efforts. If they wind up on the “losing side” they add the loss to their litany of “alleged injustices” and claim it as further proof of the need for their “involvement”. It is a self perpetuating cycle that grants them a feeling of self-importance, bolstered by the support of others of equally weak mind who have followed them down the “rabbit hole”.

                • jello333 says:

                  Which is why this has to go further than just George’s exoneration. It can’t stop there. There have to be serious repercussions for those involved in the conspiracy. If not, this will happen again… and again… and again. Sharpton and his ilk MUST be shut down for good, or the zombies will return in a few years. Fortunately, I think MOM, West, George, Bobby, and many others involved now realize this. They realize that this is bigger than just George, and that they are now in a position to help future would-be victims of the Sharptons/Crumps of the world. In fact, I think that’s what’s going on behind the scenes as we speak: Mark and Don (and Beasley) are laying the groundwork for not only the civil cases, but for sanctions against the race-baiting conspirators.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Yes, they do see the bigger picture. It is of utmost importance to stop these race baiters. They have to be stopped or history will repeat itself.

            • ottawa925 says:

              What amazes me is how obsessed they are with George’s brother. 99.9% of their posts are about Robert. I mean correct me if I am wrong, but Robert is not on trial here. He wasn’t there, so he is not a witness to the incident itself.. He is just a supportive family member, and they spend most of their time attacking him. What do they expect him to do? Attack his own brother? Maybe in their world. They NEVER discuss the evidence. They refer to the videos that a few post. They never discuss the videos in depth. Never try to pick it apart so they can ascertain if they’ve got it right, or if it will fall apart. Why they bother to post daily is beyond me. They never have anything of value to say, it’s always one liners about how GZ is going to spend 25 years in jail. That’s it. Not ONCE have I seen someone say, well, let’s look at Trayvon and is there anything HE did that could have resulted in his death. They don’t bother to discuss TWO sides in order to get at some truth. No, instead they come on and make the same comments over and over and over. How much more interesting it would be if they actually tried to disect what happened based on the evidence. They have no interest except for the handfull of ppl that go and make videos that ask you to suspend belief, not to mention the laws on the books for SYG, or self-defense, or the number one issue in my opinion, the charge of Murder 2. Why this charge is still standing is beyond me. No one in their right mind could believe what GZ did justifies Murder 2. The elements that are necessary to charge Murder 2 is not there. And even if someone wanted to hold on to it … it cannot be proved that the elements were satisfied for that charge. That’s the key to this case. One could say as mentioned above … “he should have never gotten out of his car”. Maybe some will ALWAYS believe that he had NO RIGHT to get out of his car. And you and I would ask “what law prevents him getting out of his vehicle because he saw a suspecious person in his neighborhood?”. Please show me that law. They completely dismiss the idea that Trayvon initiated assault and battery

              Here, I think, is a good refresher on assault, assault and battery, aggravated assault:

              http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/assault-battery-aggravated-assault-33775.html

              From the link at nolo:

              “What Is Assault?
              Assault is sometimes defined as any intentional act that causes another person to fear that they’re about to suffer physical harm. This definition recognizes that placing another person in fear of imminent bodily harm is itself an act deserving of punishment, even if the victim of the assault is not actually harmed. The definition also allows police officers to intervene and make an arrest without having to stand idly by waiting for the assaulter to actually strike the victim.

              Assault Case Example: Snider is walking down a city street carrying a bottle of soda. Mantle, walking along the same street in the opposite direction, sees Snider approaching. Because of Snider’s reputation as a hot-head, Mantle immediately becomes fearful that Snider will swing the bottle at Mantle when their paths cross. As they walk past each other, nothing happens. Snider has not committed an assault. Snider has a right to carry a bottle of soda in public, and Mantle’s fear of being hit was not the result of Snyder’s intentionally threatening behavior. But now assume that, as they draw closer, Snider draws back his fist and tells Mantle “You’re going to pay for stealing my collection of baseball pennants.” As Snider begins to swing his fist in Mantle’s direction, Mantle sprints away and escapes harm. Here, Snider has committed an assault. His intentional conduct placed Mantle in reasonable fear of immediate bodily harm.”

              I believe that Trayvon met at the very least “assault”.

              • rumpole2 says:

                What amazes me is how obsessed they are with George’s brother. 99.9% of their posts are about Robert. I mean correct me if I am wrong, but Robert is not on trial here. He wasn’t there, so he is not a witness to the incident itself.. He is just a supportive family member, and they spend most of their time attacking him. What do they expect him to do? Attack his own brother?

                Excellent Post.
                Today’s” Post of the Day” :D
                (Unlike Traybots I understand there can only ONE of those each cay) :)

                All good… but the opening paragraph is “Spooky” it could be a quote from inside my brain. I have thought to comment for “Daily Daft Post fro Justarse Quest” that, although there is no shortage of daft posts… EVERY ONE IS A GEM…. it is hard to find something worthy of the DD post because all they bang on about at JQ is RZ’s tweets. And with no attempt to relate them to the case even… mainly personal attacks in the form of puerile lavatory-door type cheap shots. Then they are stupid enough to lament about who is, and isn’t ,blocked from his account. They apply their feeble brains to ways to get past the block.. and fail as far as I can tell.

              • rumpole2 says:

                No one in their right mind could believe what GZ did justifies Murder 2.

                Traybots at JQ double down on stupid… the major cretins opine that the charge should have been Murder1 :D

              • libby says:

                ATTEMPTED MURDER is what trayvon is guilty of

          • LouDaJew says:

            Many black people want to be perpetual victims IMO. the whites who buy there crap moved away because they wanted to get away from them, and are now trying to justify in their own minds that they left because they are not prejudging a group of people. white flighers in denial are the most dangerous IMO. at least be honest of why you left the old neighborhood. I know many may feel it isn’t directly related to the topic, but I feel it is.

            • LouDaJew says:

              oops, their crap

            • ytz4mee says:

              I never apologize for exercising my right to self-determination and right to live amongst only people who share my culture, values and ancestral background … just like any other identified ethnic group in the West does.

              “Racist” is code for anti-White, invented solely to shame and silence.

              Nope.

            • libby says:

              Dont forget the black flighters, lou. black middle and upper middle class folks flee the inner city far faster than whites do (but they are eager to blame whites solely for the exodus from the inner city)

              • LouDaJew says:

                I have many black colleagues that live in Northwest Broward County or by Kendall, and ask them why they don’t live closer to work. my coworkers will never give me a straight answer. they know the truth but will never repeat it. IMO, they are living a lie. now that they make good money, they don’t want to live among other blacks.
                the truth though is many of my white friends (back in the 90′s) said that Hispanics and blacks were spreading like cancer. Today, they will never say the same thing, in fear of being called a racist. On top of that they moved far away the old neighborhood, so they could be among whites.

                • ottawa925 says:

                  Might I add that the town I live in was in the old days a town that blacks would never move into for fear of attacks. I live adjacent to the famous town of CICERO. Home of Al Capone. Cicero if you know your history was the line no black would cross. Cicero was mostly Italian, with Irish, Czech, Poles and German mixed in. My town was primarly Czech. Modern day Cicero is 50+% Hispanic, My town is like 44% white, 6% black, and 50% Hispanic (that’s my guess, cause 2010 figs are just under that). In any event, I always lived amongst whites, so the changing demographics held some growing pains for me. We began having gang problems, but what cities near a major city in the US don’t? Until they went to uniforms (khaki pants/white or blue top) for kids going to school, they wore COLORS that promoted fighting. Had a few crummy neighbors, but have some good ones too. Ones that care about their kids and don’t let them do as they please. Always under thumb. The one black neighbor I have is a real nice guy. There are good people representative of their groups. Hard working. Friendly. Up keep their homes and watch over their kids. But to hear tell about other areas of my town, just one problem after another. Total disrepsect for community, kids run wild, trashed and littered homes, all night parties. So it’s each our own experience. I had a white neighbor who was a torn in my side for years … and we were friends. But his kids got out of control and we had to butt heads. His house was foreclosed and after 10 years he hightailed out of here. Now a nice middle aged woman lives there. I take it one step at a time. AND ONE PERSON at a time. I give everyone a chance. I’ll even give you TWO chances. I won’t give you a third. I’m sure tho if I lived in a bad section, and I could not endure, I would have to move or become a prisoner in my own home. That wouldn’t be good. It’s the bad that make it bad for the good in all peoples. I try to always remember that. What I AM AGAINST is agendas. And if ppl are apart of the agenda … then I’m against them too. What I notice however is when I talk to minorities around in my neighborhood … they are totally clueless on what’s going on politically.

              • hooson1st says:

                libby;

                I suspect that those black families who make it into the suburbs from the inner city do not blame whites in general. They are part of the silent majority who want to work and lead peaceful lives.

                • Sharon says:

                  With the plans that obama’s hirelings have, the entire inner city is going to be moved to the suburbs.

                  • stellap says:

                    I don’t think he really cares where we live – he just wants the “wealthy” to pay for the poor by removing the state, county and city taxation boundaries.

            • dexter says:

              If we poor Native Americans cried racism, who would listen? Why are blacks so lucky that all their problems are never their own, but this demon over which they have no control.

              • justfactsplz says:

                Dexter my husband’s grandmother was one hundred percent Cherokee Indian My husband shares your views. I believe Native Americans have more pride than blacks who blame everyone else for their problems.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        Of course, Zimmerman-immunity race riots that escalate to gun violence would make for a nice backdrop for Obama to grandstand about using all power his office holds to end gun violence…

        • Knuckledraggingwino says:

          That is why I think Obama inserted himself into the case with his “if I had a bastard son, he’d look like Trayvon Martin” comment. The fast and furious scandal had destroyed the effectiveness of the BATF scheme to use the spectre of Mexican drug lords buying assault rifles from US gun stores to gin up support for new gun control. He therefore used the TM case to delegitimize the concept of selfdefense.
          ———————-
          Edit by Admin

        • Arkindole says:

          Indeed…keep your ears to the ground. That is actually the most optimal strategy they have. Doesn’t necessarily have to be Zim.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Well, he needs to start in his own backyard, the Southside of Chicago, which saw over 500 murders last year. That’s more than one a day. Now, those are some people who need some serious gun control to stop all that violence and innocent victims, many of whom are children caught in drive-bys. Let him show us by example, using Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Baltimore …. etc … how successful this strategy is. They can be the “test markets”.

          Whoops. They already are? And the violence remains out of control and the death toll rises?

          Well. That’s awkward, isn’t it??

        • Knucklrdraggingwino says:

          Notice the timing of when the fuse that Obama lit with his “if I had a bastard son” comment reaches the powder keg. GZ will be exonerated in a SYG hearing or trial around April or May just as Obama is implementing and enforcing any new gun control laws or regulations. Obama wants GZ’s exoneration to provoke race riots. He will then exploit the violence to viciously enforce the gun control regs and impose martial law.

          Understand this: we need to not just get GZ exonerated we need to totally expose the prosecution as a blatant fraud.

          If we cant avoid race riots, then conservative/libertarians need to go for total revolution and victory. If Obama plunges us into civil war, our choices will be African style dictatorship or not enough Obama constituents surviving to keep him in office.

          Yes I know I am radical, but I support the first option of conflict avoidance through truth.

      • flaladybug says:

        “They do not understand that the law is not flexible according to your desires”. EXCELLENT QUOTE!!!!! That’s the entire argument in a nutshell.

    • justfactsplz says:

      I love the idea. I am game.

  4. diwataman says:

    19 business days left for O’Mara to file anything that moves the case forward.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Thanks for the countdown, Dman. :D
      Maybe we should start a list of outstanding matters for MOM to consider filing motions on?

      • Springstreet says:

        There is an enormous gap in Trayvon’s timeline from when his hooded figure first met the 3 Amigos at the 7/11, got back to Brandi’s porch (according to her), then for no reason appeared way back at the cut-thru (in different clothes) … and then finally (again in his 7/11 clothes) came out of the darkness at the T to assault GZ. MOM must: 1.) Match TM’s 7/11 pants and shoes with the crime scene’s pants and shoes. 2.) Verify that GZ and the other Retreat View driver saw a hooded, buttoned figure BUT he was less than 6′-2″ and wearing red sneakers and stone washed blue jeans. 3.) Unlock TM’s, DD’s, Chad’s and the dead crime scene phone’s PN to SPECIFIC cell tower records to document all the phones’ locations on a timeline. 4.) With the timeline, compare the Target, School, Community Center security cameras to set the time when the TM came back to Brandi’s porch. 5.) Then, with the same phone records, establish it was actually Chad who was “followed” by GZ … SO … the Scheme Team has nothing more than GZ’s self-defense from “big brother” Trayvon’s unprovoked attack. (Criminal) case closed!

        • mung says:

          Or he just has to prove that George acted in self defense. The rest would be nice in the civil suit to prove that the charges were Crumped up.

    • jello333 says:

      “Hey Mark, that Diwataman dude is on your case again.”

      “Yeah I know. He wants us to file something. Should we?”

      “Ah… don’t know. Maybe just make a little informal comment about Crump? That he refused to show up at the depo and now has half the cops in the area looking for him?”

      “Very funny, Don. You KNOW we’re saving that for just the right moment… like when our supporters think we’re dragging our feet, and then all of a sudden… BAM!”

      “Yeah, you mean like now? Don’t you think this would be a good time to throw Diwataman and his friends a bone?”

      “Hmm….”

      • diwataman says:

        lolz, I wonder what they say about BigBoithedog and Fred Leatherman

        • jello333 says:

          If MOM and West are even half as angry at those scumbags as people like you and I are, then I’m sure they’re trying to set the stage JUST RIGHT. So when the punch-line comes — the announcement that not only is George gonna walk, but many of conspirators are now looking at jail themselves — it hits them with the righteous force they so richly deserve. Don West seems like the type of guy who will thoroughly enjoy that when the time comes. And while I don’t think Mark O’Mara, or George, or his family WERE the type to be spiteful…. I think they might now have different attitudes. Sometimes, on rare occasions, a desire for vengeance can be a good and necessary emotion. Sorta like the “the only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent”. So there’s nothing inherently wrong with MOM, West, George, and others (including us) to look forward to the expressions on the scumbags’ faces when they get the news.

      • justfactsplz says:

        LMAO, too funny. Yes, we could use a new bone.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      {{Vroom Vroom}} :lol:

  5. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts from Justarse Quest

    Today illustrating an ongoing theme in the posting of the mostly Old Dry Women at JQ.

    “All men are rapists”

    There is a clear theme at JQ of hatred of men…. Of course that speaks volumes about the Old hags posting there rather than the victims of their vitriol.

    Even though this case has nothing to do with George’s relationships with women, they have added that ingrained prejudice to their HATE of George. This is largely fuelled by the dubious testimony of George’s Cousin.

    Random Topics
    http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=19497#p19497

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      Oh for Pete’s sake!

      This chick can’t possibly be married. If she is, it couldn’t be for very long. Spouses instruct each other “like babies” all of the time – especially in moments of high stress and fear. Its not because you are trying to “control” them or “talk down” to them – it just relieves the internal stress you are experiencing by hearing the words being spoken.

      Every time I leave the house alone, I repeatedly tell my husband to watch our daughter. “I’m about to leave…here I go…watch her, okay? I’m almost to the door! Watch her! Okay…I’m out! Watch her!”

      He’s more than capable and I know this. It just makes me feel better to say it. I can’t imagine how I would speak to him if I were in jail for a crime I didn’t commit.

      • Knuckledraggingwino says:

        Actually, you would be amazed and dismayed if you knew what goes through a man’s mind in regards to women. While we can have total respect for women, or at least some women, this does not dissuade us from constantly evaluating their sexual attractiveness and reproductive fitness. (pretty much synonymous). Men do “undress women with their eyes,” constantly. We subconsciously estimate your height to weight ratio, hip to waist ratio, breast size, firmness, and inventory your lingerie. The one in one thousand of us men whose pheromone sensors are not dormant can tell you intimate details about yourself that even you do not want to know.

        Tim Allen had exactly right. Men are Pigs! Theonly reason why we are not all rapists is because we constantly choose not to be.

        • libby says:

          Men get treated like walking atm’s from the day they are born til the day they die.
          (men want to know the woman with whom they choose to mate is the most fertile).
          (women want to know that the man with whom they want to mate will be able to support her durign an extended period of pregnancy followed by an extended perido of training newborns for years before they can defend themselves).
          Both men AND women can treat the opposite sex like objects based largely upon biology, but evolution has allowed us to go beyond that.
          men AND women are pigs (neither is superior or inferior).
          media has examples of misandry and misogyny.
          our universities largely produce only misandry, however.

          • libby says:

            to keep it simple:
            women get treated like sex objects.
            men get treated like success objects.
            (men want physical attributes that often are related to a woman’s ability to bear healthy children and feed them with their glands on their chests that men get so excited about for legitimate reasons, women want big bank accounts, high incomes or prestige-something they percieve will benefit them while trying to raise their young-many can buy food and other necessities).
            And universities largely only teach about how women are treated like objects (the objectification of men is not studied and is rarely discussed in academia as far as I have found)

          • tessa50 says:

            almost 30 years marriage, never valued my husband on what he earns, wth ever happened to love-and knuckledragger, you are one sick puppy,

        • justfactsplz says:

          And I thought you guys liked us for our smile, brains, and personality.

        • Sharon says:

          Claiming that you have “total respect for women” while constantly undressing them in your mind ??

          You don’t respect women. I wouldn’t have assumed that about you, but you’ve made it plain in this comment. Not only do you fill your days and hours with this kind of thinking, but you see it as an appropriate contribution to a discussion about the judicial dilemmas being faced by George Zimmerman, his family and his legal team.

          You want to be a pig–go ahead and be a pig. Big deal. We’ve all dealt with pigs and know how to avoid them for the most part. ….so go ahead and be a pig, but please spare us the crap that you have total respect for women. That’s like asking us to believe that obama supports the Constitution of the United States and will defend us against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

          • His comment is so disgusting I’m not even replying to it directly. In fact, even in my reply to you I’m not going to say what I really think, but I will edit any further comments from him in this vein. Pig indeed.

            ETA: You know, I don’t really hang out on the GZ threads or even really read them. Have no idea on the dynamics/relationships/personalities going on here so I’m stepping away, as I’m not sure I can make a fair judgement call.

          • jello333 says:

            When I was in college, I studied a lot of issues relating to various aspects of “feminism”. And I became pretty familiar with the work of people like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon. One of their favorite themes was that “all men are rapists”. I’m not opposed to “feminism” in general, where it relates to respect, to equal pay, etc. But when it comes to the type of so-called “feminism” Dworkin and her buddies push… no, I can’t deal with it.

          • tessa50 says:

            ty, you said it so I didnt need to go off

        • Chip Bennett says:

          While we can have total respect for women, or at least some women, this does not dissuade us from constantly evaluating their sexual attractiveness and reproductive fitness. (pretty much synonymous).

          Actually, it is the conscious choice to respect women, and the self-control exercised due to that conscious choice, that dissuades men from doing such.

          There is a big difference between being constantly tempted to do something, and acting on that temptation. It is absolutely true that men are visual creatures, and that we are incredibly susceptible to visual stimuli. ( I don’t think women naturally understand the intensity of visual stimuli to men. It took my wife a long to time to understand why I told her that I did not want to watch certain TV shows, or even certain commercials. But Jesus wasn’t entirely using hyperbole when he talked about poking out one’s eye rather than allow one to sin through what that eye sees.)

          But the thing that separates us from animals is, as John Maxwell describes it, the gap between stimulus and response. I know what my natural reaction to a given stimulus is, and I have the opportunity the choose to react differently. And in situations where my self-control cannot overcome my base instincts, I can choose to remove myself from the stimulus (see: changing the television channel).

          So, while my base instinct is very much to undress a woman mentally, I have the ability to exercise the self-control not to do so. While I would agree with you that this choice represents a continual, internal battle, sometimes every minute of every day, I do not agree with you that it is a battle that men cannot and do not win, if they choose to do so, and discipline themselves to do so.

          • Sharon says:

            Like so many issues in life, it is indeed a choice; and the refusal to make the choices involved is also a choice. Thank you for the excellent explanation. Far kinder than mine–I suddenly felt like I was having to face down one of those jerks in the hallway at Lockheed Plant 10 again. My comment was a reaction. Yours was a response.

            • kathyca says:

              honestly…there’s absolutely nothing more “disgusting” about KDW’s post and Chip’s response. The bottom line is that men are in a constant internal struggle not to sexualize women…regardless of context. It is what it is.

              • kathyca says:

                eta: I soooo don’t feel sorry for those poor dudes that have to struggle so hard against their instincts not to undress me in their minds :::BIG eyeroll:::: wtfe!

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  I know it’s probably not what you intend, but regardless, you’re absolutely right. At one time in the history of our society, men were expected to exercise respect and decency. Of course, they were taught that expectation by their mother AND father, which probably explains much of the issue we have today.

                  • kathyca says:

                    I think it’s really important for woman to know how men think. As a gender, we don’t. Regardless of how mothers and fathers, or just mothers or just fathers raise their kids, I think it’s important for female chldren, in particular, to know what the male viewpoint is wrt to sexuality. There’s not a 16 yo girl on the planet who thinks she’s not “in love” with the 16 or 17 yo guy who just wants a place to “put it.” And no amount of dual parenting conveys that to a teen girl. I’ve never, ever, ever, heard a dad tell his dd that her 17 yo boyfriend would just as soon eff a hole in the wall as he would her. But moms know it to be true and tell our dd’s that in those words and also address our ds’s accordingly.

                  • libby says:

                    Kathyca,
                    Just as important for boys/men to know how many young women treat boys like walking wallets (as if our only possible contribution is money).
                    some guys are only in it for the sex and some women are only in it for the MONEY. disapointing if you think only men or boys can do bad. equally disapointing if you think only girls do bad

              • Chip Bennett says:

                Honestly, I read KDW’s comment and inferred that he meant exactly what I wrote, but said it in a different way – though I can totally see how it could be interpreted the way that Sharon read it.

                The bottom line for me is that it is not our base instincts that make us pigs; they merely make us fallible humans. Rather, what makes some men “pigs” is their unwillingness to act contrary to those base instincts out of respect and decency for others.

          • ottawa925 says:

            mind if I put my two cents in. You’re ALL wrong. I’ve learned (the sage that I am) that both men and women are affected by visual stimuli. I don’t think there is any difference. Just like my generation was told that women don’t enjoy sex. They endure sex. In those days, if you got pregnant … it was a big deal. There was so much shame all around and the word “outcast” was thrown around alot. You pictured the poor woman with shawl over head with baby in tow … lost in a world where morality still stunk, but the consequences of your actions brought out the torches and pitch forks. What’s gone today are the torches and pitch forks. And to make sure the mob mentality about out of wedlock children never returns, the generations since have made sure that we accept having kids out of wedlock like having coffee in the morning. There are so many aspects to what has changed that it can’t be covered in one post.

            However, to give you a couple of talking points, in the old days Playboy featured virtually every shape/size of natural woman you could imagine. I’m sure they still did the air brush, but nothing to diminish the basic natural appearance. Today, the gay community has decided for men what is attractive – woman who look like they haven’t had a decent meal in ages. I believe what they find attractive is a slim young boyish figure. Add breasts and wha lah what they feature in all those fashion mags to support the garment industry, in music, the movies, and TV. I gotta tell ya, TO ME, all these women look alike. Not in everyday life, but what’s pushed. Then the amount of plastic surgery going on, and they look like crap, but the gays in the industry will say … ohhhh dahling .. you look fabbbbbulous. Gimme a break. Lips at a 40 degree angle. The men too. Call me crazy but you don’t see actors like Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, etc. anymore as leading men. I think each and everyone of us would be sad to learn some of our favorite male stars today are gay. Everything is about looking a certain way.

            Spanish Fly. Ever hear of it. Well, that’s all I ever did was HEAR of it. Nobody I know ever saw it, used it, and to listen to the definition of the uneducated to what it was back in my day was hilarious. But today? Today they have every drug known to mankind to either grow your hair back, rip your hair off, or give you an errection for 4 hours. Or maybe you prefer a plunger? You just were not going to hear a commerical about errections years ago. Not gonna happen. So now ppl just take a pill and POOF BING BANG … ready to go for FOUR HOURS !!! Why? I know I know it was to help men with that lil problem. But not everyone who gets it has the problem. In fact, let’s be honest. Most don’t have the problem. They give Viagra to inmates in prison. Why? In fact, why are inmates even allowed to have sex with spouses? or all the other ANEMITIES that we have in modern prison life. Old days? Prison was a prision. PERIOD.

            Let’s face it folks. We have young men that don’t need to HIDE their inner disrespect (as some call it) for women. Now, they can express that right out in the open. No biggie. Just listen to the music … watch the movies. Today, marriage is in decline like the family unit, conservative values and religion. I’m speaking of USA. Before Obama got elected, a few couples that I know personally went together perpetually. You stopped asking them when they would get married long time ago. However, I noticed just prior to Obama getting elected, someone in each couple lost their job, and they turned to marriage to get health coverage. Men and women today are less worried about having kids. My particular town is loaded with … what you call em … DINKS (Dual Income No Kids). Anyway, I guess bottom line is BOTH men and women are very sexual beings. However, we all know “moderation” is key to stability.

            There is much money to be made off “degradation of women”. It permeates our society. Girls are under a lot of pressure because of fashion to expose themselves and behave like their fav star. Instead of being taught by their parents, and in particular, their Mother, that you must respect yourself FIRST before anyone else will.

            My sister is 76. She’s been married forever. And she’s in love with Kevin Costner. Her 2012 B-Day I got her tickets to go see him and his band Modern West. She got his autograph. I said, what were you doing while he was signing it? She said, I was absorbing him.

            I told her that in Illinois “absorbing” is a Class X Felony. You just can’t go around absorbing people. Yes, women DO think the same as men I believe. They just may be a lil more cagey about it. I do believe in general ROMANCE is dead. My sister’s still got it though.

            • Chip Bennett says:

              I’ve learned (the sage that I am) that both men and women are affected by visual stimuli. I don’t think there is any difference.

              I have no doubt that women are affected by visual stimuli. I do, however, believe there is a difference. Maybe women are more holistic? Maybe women are simply naturally more strong in character/morality?

              But I’ve been in enough relationships, in which I’ve had the same basic conversation, to think that there is absolutely no difference. Invariably, I would explain why I change the channel or avert my eyes from something on TV, or explain that, no, I didn’t notice that woman walking the other way, because I was intentionally keeping my eyes where they belonged – and I would receive a response that indicated what appeared to me to be a complete blind spot regarding why I would do that.

              Ultimately though, it doesn’t really make a difference in how we treat each other, because men and women are called to the same standard of love, respect, and decency toward one another. I don’t presume to know all of the struggles and hardships women face, and I don’t expect any special dispensation for myself in this matter, either.

              (And if I go any farther down this tangent, I might have to move it to the chapel lol.)

              • ottawa925 says:

                Chip, with all due respect … the INTERNET is loaded with porn sites. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but what you’re going to see is WOMEN on those porn sites. So on the topic of maybe women have more character or morality? ahhhhhhhh NO. Women can be pigs too. Unless you want to make the argument that the women are being forced on these porn sites, which there are hundreds of thousands of porn sites. I’m sure there is a percentage … but I think the majority thought they could make a fast buck.

                Example and please answer on this one.

                Scenario: You learn that your 15 year old teenage daughter has been taking nude photos of herself and sending them to various boys.

                As Father … what do you do? Should she have known that was wrong to do according to the foundation you and your wife laid down? Does she not respect herself? Is this the method she thinks will make boys desire her? Does she know other girls that did the same thing, so she is just doing what they do?

                As Father: … now take same scenario and instead of daughter make it … a son.

                no, this is the age of the internet and instant transfer of images, and let me let you in on a little secret. I’m a gamer. I play all the Call of Duty, Modern Warfare games online with other gamers. My guess is that you have approximately 40% of boys and young adult boys and adults playing the game legit. The rest all cheat. They have absolutely no integrity. It’s the fast route to success and a longing to be #1 at all times. The stuff that comes out of their mouth, well your jaw would drop, unless you game too, then you know what I’m talking about. The secret however is just like they know how to hack games, they know exactly how to go to porn sites. They love porn … I can tell you that with complete confidence that I am correct. What do you think happens to someone that watches porn all day long?

              • jello333 says:

                I’ll try to word this as “delicately” as I can. :) Years ago, I did a lot of research (no not primary research!) into the effects of certain kinds of “stimuli” on people, and whether it affected men/boys differently from women/girls. Turns out that, in general, females are slightly more responsive to aural stimuli than males; and males are slightly more responsive to visual stimuli than females. But the key word is “slightly”… VERY slightly. There was only a very small difference.

              • ottawa925 says:

                Chip: “Invariably, I would explain why I change the channel or avert my eyes from something on TV, or explain that, no, I didn’t notice that woman walking the other way, because I was intentionally keeping my eyes where they belonged – ”

                heh … two guys out with the wives. In the bar area of a restaurant waiting till seated. A beautiful blonde walks in. One husband elbows the other.

                two wives out with the husbands. In the bar area of a restaurant waiting till seated. A dude that looks like Brad Pitt walks in. One wife stares at the other wife.

                Women have learned apparently not to be obvious.

                I’ve seen them do it. oh so innocent.

                • libby says:

                  They look at the handsome guys at the bar (all equally?) or they eye the handsome guy at the bar with the obviously expensive watch and clothing with special interest?
                  .
                  my experience is women get all excited about the manufacture of the shoes, the type of fashion choices (that often relate to expense and money).
                  .
                  women and men can both be visual, but that doesnt mean they are looking at the same things.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Excellent post.

            • LouDaJew says:

              what’s missing from today’s youth, as well as adults? one word, RESPECT.

            • libby says:

              “the consequences of your actions brought out the torches and pitch forks.”
              .
              we still have this….the pitchforks used to be reserved soely for women and now they are reserved solely for men (deadbeat dads or beatdead dads as they are cvalled in the men’s rights movement).
              .
              in our hurry to legitimate illegitimacy, we have begun to cast aspersions on those who are married or who are havign babies in wedlock (as if there is something wrong with waiting or doing things traditionally).

    • jello333 says:

      It’s the dreaded Dworkinitis disease.

    • libby says:

      Women who like men have men in their lives and men who like women have women in their lives…

  6. ReginasZooWorld says:

    I was exhausted when I got home from work yesterday. I went through all the mail and threw 3/4 of it away because it was junk. The last item in the stack looked like a delayed Christmas card. The return address was from central Florida. I ripped it open hovering over the garbage can thinking it was going to be junk because I didn’t know anyone from that area. My heart stopped when I pulled out the card…It was a thank you note from George Zimmerman, it was signed your friend. I started to tear up as I realized my troubles from the day were so insignificant compared to the hardship this country has piled on him. I stopped and said a little prayer for him and his family. I asked God to take his troubles away and help him get back a normal life. If you see this George, keep the faith. We are praying for you.

    • LouDaJew says:

      just reading this made me feel the caring you have for others.

    • tara says:

      Team Skittles thinks you’re putting your card up for sale on eBay. Just because that’s what THEY would do …….

      • ReginasZooWorld says:

        Team Skittles can bite my fat butt…I put it in our family Bible. That seemed like the logical spot for it. I hope to tell my grand children about it one day…Let’s hope with a positive out come. Something along the lines of “This helped to solidify our gun rights and was the start of Skittleites training their children to NEVER touch anyone, settle your problems with your brain, not your fist”…

  7. ejarra says:

    I remember this video from back in May. I find it appropriate to today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8RLWPsjkk8&feature=player_embedded

    It’s the Ted Nugent video on SYG and this case.

  8. ejarra says:

    I found this video produced at the end of March. It’s amazing how accurate it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSnX7NSMs6I&feature=player_embedded

  9. Angel says:

    Hope everyone is well. This line from this song ” when the rain washes you clean, then you’ll know ” is so full of hope in that we go through the rain but we will purifed from it! Hang in their GZ and everyone else.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Get out of my head! I heard this song on the radio yesterday, and kept playing that very line over and over in my head. I almost posted a link to it on another site with line directing it to the TrayHuggers there!

      • Angel says:

        “Get out of my head! I heard this song on the radio yesterday, and kept playing that very line over and over in my head. I almost posted a link to it on another site with line directing it to the TrayHuggers there!”

        Wow, that spooky!!! I have loved this song for years. My Uncle played this song (entire album actually) when I was a kid and I fell in love with it and still play its as an adult. That line really stuck with me today as well. I guess because that line speaks of hope of learning something during the “rain” and coming out a little cleaner and the better for it. Lots of other people “will know” after the rain washes them clean.”

        • rumpole2 says:

          “Rumours” was (is) a great album… but the Clintons stuffed up “Don’t stop” when Bill used it as campaign song in 1992 :(
          I can still enjoy the song… but only if I first mediate and cleanse my mind of thoughts of either Clinton.

  10. brutalhonesty says:

    Can George/Omara demand a grand jury? Cant they say corey shouldnt have bypassed it and demand one?

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      In Florida, grand juries are mandatory only for capital crimes.

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        I believe that FL Statutes should be amended to state that ALL claims of self defense in murder or attempted murder cases should be referred to grand juries. THAT would stop prosecutors from circumventing the intent of the immunity statute.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Agreed. Out of the SYG review circus recently convened, that would have been one recommendation I would have whole-heartedly supported. Claim self-defense, have a timely hearing by an empaneled Grand Jury before the whole thing becomes a media feeding frenzy … up or down… then prepare and proceed to trial if the grand jury finds it appropriate.

        • tara says:

          I would like the law to be changed so that only grand juries can deliver a charge which could result in a life sentence or the death penalty.

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            Agreed, but that would not help someone charged with Murder2, which only carries a 25 yr sentence.

            • tara says:

              I thought Murder 2 had possibility of life sentence. I’ll assume you’re right.

              • MJW says:

                You are correct.

              • MJW says:

                When I said “You are correct,” I meant you are correct the murder 2 can carry a life sentence.

                782.04(2): The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

        • Ricky Jimenez says:

          Many states specify that only judges, after a hearing with both sides presenting, or a grand jury can indict somebody for a felony. Why restrict the law to self defense cases? I don’t know about Florida, but many states just allow the prosecution to present to a grand jury so I think the preliminary hearing method is the fairest way to prevent prosecutorial abuse.

  11. MJW says:

    I’ve finally found the names of the first 20 redacted witnesses (W1-W20), except for W8, “DeeDee.” It took me forever to figure out the first name of Austin McLendon’s older sister, though the clues were right in front of my face. For the record, they’re all in alphabetical order. I don’t believe the next two witnesses, W21 and W22, are. The alphabetical order must, of course, end at some point, as new witnesses are added to the original list. I thought it would probably be after the original 22, but I now think it ends after 20.

    • MJW says:

      More in front of my face than I realized. One of the commenters on TalkLeft mentioned her name in a December comment, but I didn’t notice (and apparently neither did Jeralyn).

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Jeralyn mentioned Sierra McLendon in an August post. She (Sierra) gave a TV interview in which she discussed the shortcut. Her name shouldn’t be redacted anymore.

        • ejarra says:

          Plus. she’s eighteen.

        • MJW says:

          Wow, I’m very surprised. In order to try to find her name, I did plenty of Googles for “Austin’s sister,” and so on, and never found anyone who gave her name. I finally discovered it when I realized Austin’s mother is the fitness model, went to her website, and found a link to a YouTube video of her daughter singing. I only found nomatter_nevermind’s TalkLeft comment that named her by Googling “‘Sierra McLendon’ Zimmerman.” There are very few hits, indicating that despite the fact the name was out there, it hadn’t be mentioned often.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            That’s not surprising. The total of her pertinent testimony is ‘I heard something’. I’m a little surprised that she’s on the witness list. I don’t remember seeing anything to suggest LE ever interviewed her.

            The other interesting thing about Sierra is that she is the only RATL resident I know of who has been quoted by name regarding the shortcut. Jeralyn mentioned another one, but she didn’t give particulars.

            Sierra indicated the shortcut leads to the street, rather than the next neighborhood, as some of us have speculated. I noticed that she did not say that she herself used the shortcut.

    • MJW says:

      You may understand better why Austin’s mother, Chery Brown, is trying to rewrite her son’s original statements to the police when you read this Tumblr comment from the daughter:

      xxxxxx-mclendon
      Trayvon Martin

      This case is very personal to me. If you believe in justice, please sign this petition at

      http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=share_with_facebook_friends

    • MJW says:

      Like mother, like daughter, or the other way around:

      “This person decided to take the law into their own hands, and I can’t fathom what was going through his mind,” said homeowner Cheryl Brown.

      I guess once she’s decided what happened, she won’t let the facts — even as seen by her son — get in the way.

      • ejarra says:

        For those here who didn’t hear W15′s (Austin’s older sister) 911 call:

        http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Trayvon-Martin-George-Zimmerman-Audio-W15_SPD02262012.mp3

        BTW, I see you are dying to tell us her name. I went through ALL the comments in Dec on TalkLeft for Dec and I didn’t see her name. How about a date or post headline? I also went through tumblr and saw nada. I did see Aiyanna Fleming’s name in the comment section for the petition, though. She received over 1200 likes.

        • howie says:

          So how will BDLR get around this tape? He saw Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help. Again. The states evidence exonerates Zimmerman.

          • MJW says:

            In subsequent press interviews, Austin has backed off his original certainty that it was the person on the ground who was screaming. The mother and the family attorney claim he couldn’t actually tell the color of the clothing, but was influenced to say it was red by the police investigators.

            • howie says:

              Good luck with that plan. How weak. Even a black person on a jury could see through that one. Although they might hang it for their own safety.

        • MJW says:

          I’m somewhat reluctant to reveal redacted names so publicly, but since it was already posted on TalkLeft, and since she posted the a comment about the Zimmerman case under her own name, I will. It’s Sierra.

          • MJW says:

            Now that I reread your post, I see you said I was dying to tell you the name, not you were dying to find out the name. I was not dying to reveal the name publicly. I only mentioned it because I thought you wanted to know it. In any event, I don’t think any harm was done. My interest in finding the names was to confirm they were all in alphabetical order; though, of course, at some point it becomes an independent challenge to get them all.

            • ejarra says:

              Well I was curious. However, with all the hints you were dropping, it seemed as though you wanted someone else to find it and expose it. Again, I was enjoying the hunt, but couldn’t find it based on your clues. Sierra , huh?

              A long time ago I suggested to you that “Jackson” was maybe DD2′s last name and you dismissed that name, what say you now? Do you feel as I do that there are multiple DDs?

              • MJW says:

                Actually, I was sort of shielding myself from those who knew her name, and thought, “Why did it take him so long to find it; it’s obvious!”

                I didn’t dismiss “Jackson” as improbable, I just wasn’t sure why that name instead of all the other possible surnames between “Green” and “Johnson.” Without more to go by, it’s just one of many. I don’t think it’s quite the right length to fit the redactions, though I’m not certain about that.

              • MJW says:

                I think the multiple DeeDee theory is very unlikely.

        • jello333 says:

          Not just his sister but, much more importantly, Austin himself is on that call. Even just the little bit he says there is a HUGE help to George:

          “I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming. And I was gonna go over there to try to help him, but my dog got off the leash, so I went and got my dog…”

          So Austin was literally gonna go HELP George, but was later convinced (by his mother and others like her) that George was the bad guy? I feel kinda bad for the kid.

          • MJW says:

            I agree it’s strong evidence in Zimmerman’s favor, though the Brown/McLendon family seems to be doing all they can to make it less so. If Austin testifies he didn’t see red clothing, or he didn’t know who was screaming, the defense can confront him with his original statements to the contrary. It would be better, though, if his testimony agrees with the first interview. When Austin was re-interviewed by O’Steen, he still apparently stuck with the red clothing. Cheryl Brown and her lawyer, Adamson, told O’Steen later that Austin only said that to be consistent with the first interview. Who knows what he’d say under oath in court. Brown said Austin has become more argumentative lately. Maybe he’s just not on board with the program to shaft Zimmerman through perjury. (That’s my own baseless speculation, of course.)

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