Part 2…O’Mara And West Speak With “In Session” TV…Did Tracy Martin Lie About the 911 Calls?…Did The State Engage In Witness Tampering? – (Video)

Major h/t to anwtex for doing the hard part….finding the video! :-D

This segment of the interview centers around the inconsistencies in both Sybrina and Tracy’s testimony regarding their son’s voice.  The fact that the State withheld information regarding who was in attendance during an earlier meeting where Serino questioned Martin is more than troubling.  Officer Bill Irwin, the same person who did the voice stress analysis on George, was sitting in on the earlier questioning of Martin….a corroborating fact that, until now, was unknown to the defense.  Why did Sanford Police Capt. O’Connor and the State keep this information from the defense until they were deposed?   O’Mara states it’s the same issue they keep having with all the witnesses…“They change – particularly after conversations with the State.”

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This entry was posted in Decepticons, Mark O'Mara, media bias, Predictions, Racism, Trayvon Martin. Bookmark the permalink.

294 Responses to Part 2…O’Mara And West Speak With “In Session” TV…Did Tracy Martin Lie About the 911 Calls?…Did The State Engage In Witness Tampering? – (Video)

  1. anwtex says:

    ah, gee! Not necessary or expected but thanks Ad rem. The curiosity bug got me and won’t release me ’til the whole interview is found sooo I’m glad tomorrow is another day…just hope I’m in the search mode OR better yet someone beats me to it (like youuuu) :wink:
    It sure seems like something we all should view. imo

    Anyway, moving along:

    “Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?”

    From the “archives” —March 17 @ OS re Crump / Martin re voice “crying for help”

    Serino said Trayvon’s father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

    Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that “he couldn’t tell, that it was too distorted.”

    The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2

    One more time:
    “Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?”
    Pants on fire!!

    Like

  2. Ron Callaway says:

    I will never again subscribe to cable or satellite tv. Have had no tv for a year now and
    this kind of crap saves me 50 bucks a year.

    Like

  3. manoncanal says:

    Better clarify that: All news media has been against George from the beginning and even covering up for the usurper in the whitehouse. Don’t need no frigging tv. lol

    Like

    • howie says:

      You pulled the plug. I too am considering it.

      Like

      • gretchenone says:

        We pulled the plug a long while ago. At first you miss it, then your brain starts to clear, and eventually when you have the ‘opportunity’ to watch for any extended period of time you just can’t expose yourself to the attempts at mind control any longer. I mean that. The propaganda is deep at all levels of television programming. You don’t realize the depth of it until you’ve been clean for awhile. I highly recommend getting rid of cable.

        Like

        • howie says:

          I think I am about there. I can’t watch the news anymore. It is repulsive. I almost puke every time I hear fiscal cliff.

          Like

          • Sharon says:

            Exactly. When I heard yet one more literal insider whining (or threatening us) about the “fiscal cliff” I’m reminded of a man who beats his kids lecturing the first grade teacher for making Johnny sit in the corner for 5 minutes. (yeah, I know–that was in another country in a land far, far away–a very long time ago)

            Better illustration: it’s the bank robber blaming the bank for his criminal record, claiming that if the door had been locked, he wouldn’t have been able to get in at 2pm on Monday.

            Like

        • nameofthepen says:

          gretchenone says: “We pulled the plug a long while ago. At first you miss it…”

          Amen, sister! TV-free now for almost 6 years. Thought I wasn’t going to get through the withdrawals. But, the internet was my “methadone”. Then it became my “vitamins”. :D

          Anyway, I really liked what you had to say. I feel it too. I’m different now.

          Like

        • I’m with you on that. I spend so much time on the computer researching my own info, that I don’t even get my news information from TV. I found probably 2 or 3 years ago that instead of double checking TV sources to find the whole story, I’d just do my own. Now I listen to Rush on the Radio and BeckTV on the web and still can research with the Bigs at Breitbart.

          Like

  4. debfrmhell says:

    Perhaps this is the issue that Flood found so curious? That the State was sending out someone to interview a “depostion-ee” just prior to their meeting with MOM. He seemed a little taken aback that they were making this kind of maneuver. You say potato, I say witness tampering.

    [quote]”O’Mara states it’s the same issue they keep having with all the witnesses…“They change – particularly after conversations with the State.”[/quote]

    Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      There is no doubt about what he meas. It’s a very serious charge to make publicly:

      “O’Mara states it’s the same issue they keep having with all the witnesses…“They change – particularly after conversations with the State.”

      Like

  5. howie says:

    I still do not understand how Zimmerman’s statement’s will convict him of 2nd degree murder. What is the theory? Now Crump is downplaying Dee Dee. Going back to Zimmerman’s statements.

    Like

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Yup,
      She is the most important witness, but no one cares if she appears totally coached or if it cannot be proven that she even spoke to trayvon

      Like

      • CMSIQ says:

        An objective viewpoint of Zimmerman’s statements is very favorable to Zimmerman. After all, the police grilled him, ultimately believed him, and then released him. They did not think there was probable cause for an arrest.

        The Trayvonites making statements such as GZ’s statement to police will convict him….are simply swinging wildly at everything, and hoping something sticks.

        Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          Mom addressed this issue some time back. George’s statements to the police were consistent. He might not have used the exact same words each time but his story was the same. Mom said if it exactly the same you would worry one is lying.

          Like

    • John Galt says:

      Crump took the blue pill. He remains in the Scheme Team Tangled Web.

      Like

  6. Geosurface says:

    Crump’s response to Vinnie (the jerk) asking him if the recording of DeeDee was edited in any way, etc… his incredibly DODGING response, avoiding answering that question… going to every other possible issue about the recording first, is INCREDIBLY TELLING. IMHO.

    He never answers if anyone at his office edited it in any way. Messed with it in any way. He filibustered and went on a huge tangent. And did the Judge tell Crump to give it to FDLE? Or to give it to O’Mara?

    Like

    • Ad rem says:

      Vinnie is wack…best listened to with your TV unplugged. I’m afraid he’s taken that long walk down the yellow brick road…at warp speed.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      Crump admitted that the recording was redacted / edited. He stopped, rewound, started. It is also obvious from listening to the recording itself. I think this is potentially relevant to two issues:

      1. Witness tampering (and obstruction) and witness exclusion – mentioned by O’Mara

      2. Obtaining Gutman’s recordings pursuant to the Florida journalist shield statute:

      (b) The information cannot be obtained from alternative sources; and (c) A compelling interest exists for requiring disclosure of the information.

      http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/florida-protections-sources-and-source-material

      Like

  7. LoudaJew says:

    of course it isn’t Trayvon. b0th parents are liars. there isn’t any recent video footage of Trayvon. BS!

    Like

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Hi Lou,
      the news media are such morons….They repeatedly rehash the line, “George has many inconsistencies in his statements and thus he must be guilty of something”.
      Well, if having inconsistencies in your story is proof of guilt of something then the martins/fultons have a massive amounts of guilt cuz almost none of their stories are consistent with any of the lies they have told since day one (oh trayvon was one of those special academic scholars who failed the FCAT-state exit exam-you are either an academic scholar or you fail the FCAT, scholars dont fail major exams that are easy to pass – of course half the students dont pass the test – and that could mean the test is hard or the teachers and the students are soft)

      Like

      • CMSIQ says:

        The inconsistencies are a load of cr#p

        In an attempt to be viewed as objective, the media will interject such things.

        The sad thing is the media will largely never be on GZ’s side, even after GZ is exonerated. This is because the permanently aggrieved black victim class is powerful. The media must always appear to be objective even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against them.

        Like

  8. LoudaJew says:

    the best way to get Trayon’s voice is to use the 7/11 video and amplify the audio. Trayvon had a deep voice, just like his dad.

    Like

    • Geosurface says:

      Yep, I’ve done just that before and you’re absolutely right. He had a deep, stereotypically black voice. Integrating that sort of attempt to sound lazy about how he talked and also sound tough.

      The funny thing about all this is that if Trayvon were alive he’d probably bristle at the implication that he’d scream like a little baby. He’d probably do a lot of posturing about some cracker not being able to get the better of him or lead him to scream… etc etc.

      And I’m sure he’d also hate how he’s been portrayed as a little boy and all these old pictures which he’d probably be mortified for a girlfriend to see much less the entire world to see. He worked very hard to cultivate the bad, tough, thug gangsta persona. So hard, in fact, that it got him killed.

      Guess that’s keepin’ it as real as it gets.

      Like

      • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

        Yup,
        one guy had the nick tugboat and the other guy portrayed himself as no_limit_gangsta (who would you rather meet on a cold dark windy rainy night? tugboat or NO_LIMIT_GANGSTA?)

        Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      TMs cell phone must have some sort of message with his voice because SF said that listening to that message is the only way she can hear TM’s voice.

      Like

      • howie says:

        His voice mail. Hi this is NLN. Can’t answer but leave me a message. Ha. I wonder what it relly said.

        Like

      • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

        You know how poor Sanford, Florida is? Their cops cant even afford black and white photgraphic equipment! We need to have a fundraiser to buy those cops some 21st century photographic equipment. /sarc
        .
        Ooops, just one more inconsistency by the martin/fulton clan. Maybe we need to make up a sight that details all of the martin/fulton lies/inconsistencies (there have bene so many in this case it would make your ghead spin for weeks trying to list them all-like tracey martin claiming the last time he saw his son when was well after the young MAN hasd been shot)

        Like

      • LoudaJew says:

        yep. never thought of that. voice mail message.

        Like

  9. Lee says:

    TruTv needs to take the “Tru” out of their logo. They script half of their reality shows to keep them inflammatory and they are doing the same to Zimmerman. You have one reporter trying to talk about the facts vs an anchor like Vinnie Politan displayimg his idol worship of the heroic Crump vs O’Mara trying to get the prized witness DeeDee thrown out and a live Zimmerman vs dead Trayvon. Politan and TruTv is as bad as NBC, Sharpton , and the rest. No matter how much evidence comes out in Zimmerman’s favor they refuse to report it without a bias twist – shameful!!!!

    Like

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      It was obvious to me that there was a producter in Vinnie’s ear forcing him to get back on track and actually conduct an interview vs. the “Vinnie Sez” hero-worship variety hour.

      Did you hear the sound of defeat in his voice at the very end when he finally asked if the recording was altered?

      Like

      • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

        Tea,
        normally, i cant watch that jerk on an empty stomach, I get very agitated

        Like

        • TandCrumpettes says:

          What was up with his comment, “after talking to the STATE? Those are serious allegations!”

          So what if they are? What’s gonna happen, huh? The Gestapo gonna come out and take ‘em away for making such a horrifying statement? I know that’s what he’d like to see…but c’mon now.

          Like

      • Cupcake says:

        Vinnie asked if the tape was edited THEN asked another question right after before Crump had to answer so of course Crump ignored it. Another pass given to Crump by an inept interviewer.

        Like

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Can’t agree more friend.
      Politan treats trump like a God who powers of telling the truth are legendary – when all crump has done is tell one series of OBVIOUSLY conflicting lies after another, but then politan lets crump claim that Z is guilty due to his inconsistencies.
      Politan is not at all concerned with facts that can be proven, and as bad as this drivel was yesterday, it was still far better than the all lies all the tim they had been airing for months.

      Like

  10. geosurface says:

    Here ad rem, I’ve trimmed all the Trayvonite nonsense from the start and end of the video, and put it in the proper (though unfortunate) non-widescreen source aspect ratio. It will be at this address once it’s done uploading: http://youtu.be/sQuKA89yNTY

    Like

  11. howie says:

    There has to be 2 Dee Dee’s. One said she went to the hospital for High Blood Pressure. The other said she went because she could not Pee.

    Like

  12. sunnydaze77 says:

    I want to ask Crump 1 question,, How did Double DD hear anything when Trays earbuds were found in his pockets?….im sure the lame answer would be he stopped using them after he left the 7-11(eyeroll). I am convinced D’DD didnt hear anything and by the time MOM/WEST are done with this part of the testimony the judge and jury are going to be furious. Its just common sense people, something the scheme team didnt think about before their construct.

    Like

    • anwtex says:

      sunydaze—In the discovery one officer states that the earbuds were seen near the deceased and another officer says they were in the pocket. So perhaps they were collected from the ground and put in his pocket for transport?

      Like

      • hooson1st says:

        they should have been tagged as a separate piece of evidence.

        Like

        • anwtex says:

          Funny you should mention that—–I just came back on to say that the odd thing is that I never saw an evidence tag or any picture at all….unless I missed it along the way, don’t think so tho. That’s not right. And here you are with the same thought.

          Like

      • sunnydaze77 says:

        I would think any evidence found at the scene on the ground would be bagged, not put in a persons pockets, but thats just me

        Like

        • anwtex says:

          Absolutely, and it’s not “just you”. I’m going to go back and read all those statements again. I need a clearer copy tho, sure I can locate one.
          I can understand, with so many officers on the scene most arriving at different times and all making reports, that thinks can get out of sync but I want clarification so I’ll go looking around. Another thing I recall is that at least one officer described Zimmerman as male Latino. Sooooo take that Clump and crew…..overlooked to suit your racist agenda?

          Like

      • John Galt says:

        If they were found on the ground, they should have been marked with a numbered marker and photographed in situ.

        Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Sunny – I think TM took the ear-buds OUT when he jogged around the “T”, and waited for GZ. There was no “taking” at that point – because TM wanted to “surprise” Geroge with a punch-in-the-face. So yes, no ear-buds, battery-dead, violent felony attack on George (as honestly stated), and further TM’s attempted murder of George by beating the hell out of GZ’s skull on the cement.

      Like

      • sunnydaze77 says:

        agreed, the testimony DD gives about hearing the old mans voice, the grass, and the lill get off, is all total BS….she didnt hear jack.

        Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      I want to know the exact time he put those ear buds in his pocket. That is exactly when he decided to assault George and began to get in position to do it.

      Can anyone extrapolate when that happened from the known time line?

      I have seen so many damn time lines, I gave up. What stands out is that the shot was fired at 7:16PM and LE arrived one minute later. We know when George’s call began and when it ended. That is indisputable.

      80 seconds are unaccounted for and most people estimate that Georges screamed for help for about 40 seconds.

      O’Mara is going to have to use a time line that clearly reveals the order of events and I hope it is 3 D video reenactment.

      So when did Martin put those ear buds in his pocket?

      Like

  13. eastern2western says:

    first thing is I wish the sanford police department could sue crump for libel because this moron kept accusing the whole world that the police deparment did not conducted an investigation and never corrected his erros. If I were any of the police officers, I would probably figure out ways to dig up dirt on trayvon and mailed it to the defense. I just do not believe any of the officers is the department likes crump at this point and they probably want to beat the crap out of this lying piece of garbage.

    Like

    • boutis says:

      Some of them were co-operating with Crump. Some of them were pressuring Serino to charge Zimmerman and leaking information. This needs to be explored in detail as well as any actions by the mayor and the city manager and their part in a charge and arrest. In one of the depositions a SPD member said they did not move fast enough but they were coming up with the same information over and over that corroborated what Zimmerman had told them. The pressure was from Crump/PR/media and screaming they weren’t doing anything. The SPD was doing a lot, it just was not what Tracy Martin/Crump/settlement machine wanted. The fact that Corey’s office wants to have a little talk with the SPD members before the depositions is a clear indicator that they are trying to control what they are saying and telling MOM and to conceal as much as possible. The odds are very high that MOM knows from information passed by third parties from the SPD. The question is going to be was there a conspiracy to violate Zimmerman’s civil rights, where did it start, who participated, and who is liable.

      Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        This is exactly why O’Mara filed the emergency motion to prevent the state from talking to them. He, or West, KNEW that a conspiracy was in place and Nelson did not have the foresight to see it coming One can imagine what the State told these witnesses.

        Like

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      E2W,
      Imagine crump claiming he couldnt trust anyone in law enforcement, but we now know there was a national organization of black law enforcement (NOBLE) that got involved in this case (was chump unable to trust the national orgranization of black law enforcement, too? or was it only the white cops chup couldnt trust?
      keep in mind demographic make up of spd officers is one third, one third, one third approx (one third white, onethird black and one third hispanic)….chump couldnt even trust the black cops?

      Like

    • justfactsplz says:

      SPD have been very cooperative with the defense since day one.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “I wish the sanford police department could sue crump for libel”

      Would not be surprised if Bill Lee took a chunk out of Parks & Crump.

      Like

  14. Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

    Vinnie worked hard to repeat all the team scheme LIES (he does not care what can be proven , all he cares about is wild accusations without evidence)

    Like

  15. maggiemoowho says:

    Maybe Vinnie knows Crump from his days working at News 13 here in Orlando. I can’t stomach that guy.

    Like

  16. Cupcake says:

    Starting @ 6:05 — the host says to Crump “We wouldn’t be where we are now if Tracy and Sabrina didn’t find you and didn’t make some noise about that and that’s what a parent is, I believe, obligated to do WHEN THEIR CHILD IS SHOT AND KILLED FOR NO REASON”.

    I’m speechless. He’s a host on In Session and what…he hasn’t seen or read ANY of the evidence in this case and is just repeating the “killed for no reason” talking point?

    Like

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      Its hard to say what I would do as a parent – and hopefully this never happens to me. But I can only imagine that if my child were killed and “nothing was done” about it, I’d be jumping up and down, making a lot of noise asking why.

      And when I hear the evidence that my child was beating someone to death, after I saw the photographs, heard the 911 calls, read the witness statements, I would STILL hate that person’s guts. I wouldn’t be able to control it. I’m the mother so I have the right to be irrational in that regard.

      But as much as I would hate them, as much as I would wish that they hadn’t shot my child, I would understand why that action was taken. I would understand why no charges were filed. Understanding it, doesn’t mean I have to “like” it.

      I would stop jumping up and down and making noise. I would grieve. I would look up to Heaven and ask my child, “Why did you have to hit him?”

      Even if I didn’t believe my child were capable of “jumping” someone, no matter how strongly I believed that, I have to concede that there is no evidence suggesting otherwise. I would have to concede the evidence suggests that she DID.

      Understanding it, doesn’t mean that I can’t still believe in my heart of hearts that my child “did nothing wrong.”

      But my belief in my own child’s goodness has no room in a court of law. Nor does the severity of my grief justify my conjuring up “evidence” to get the shooter arrested just because I hate them.

      Like

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Tand – I think we all understand this issue. But if my child was beating a person to death – and that person shot to save his own life – then I would grieve – but I would understand. This case COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED – with that Grand Jury review by Norm Wolfinger. Only the incredible lies, by Crump, and the collusion of Bernie and Corey made this into a “Nation-wide case”. There still MIGHT be a trial – we should all be prepared for that.

        Like

        • CMSIQ says:

          I agree with all this. Which is why when police explained to Tracy Martin what happened, his response was extremely telling.

          He hung his head. He knew his son was VERY capable of assaulting a stranger. After all he had been complaining about how out of control Trayvon was for months on facebook.

          Now of course, Tracy smells the cash. That will change a lot of peoples tunes.

          Like

        • TandCrumpettes says:

          Vinnie apparently doesn’t understand the issue. When a PD conducts a thorough investigation and concludes no crime has been committed, that is “doing nothing.”

          Accepting that outcome is “sitting back.”

          When someone shoots in self-defense and has all of the evidence in the world to confirm it, its “killing for no reason.”

          Manufacturing evidence, lying, obstructing justice, and refusing to cooperate with law enforcement is “a parent’s obligation.”

          At least according to Vinnie, its all OK because someone is dead – therefore the killer is guilty. Manufacturing evidence against them is fine and dandy, seeing as they are guilty to begin with, if for no other reason than someone is dead – who cares if the evidence is legitimate? Its just a means to an end.

          Yeah, this might still go to trial. I highly doubt it, but the sadistic side of me still wants it to…just to see everything come out in the open. Bernie told me after the first bond hearing to wait for all the evidence to come in….I’m still waitin’…looks the same to me!

          Like

        • ottawa925 says:

          you know, myopiafree, I’m no expert on how a Grand Jury works. I presume the accused still has legal representation, and the state presents to Grand Jury. Then after evidence presented, the Grand Jury decides if there is enough evidence to try the accused. If this case had gone early on to Grand Jury, and considering what we know now, at this very point today, they would not have had all this evidence that MOM and West keep stumbling over in the dark back back then … no? I mean they disclose that it was only by accident that they found out Erwin heard Tracy (just one example), or mystery surrouding DD and recordings. Plus you would have had it going to Grand Jury in the heat of the moment. I wonder now about that. Maybe it was a blessing that it did not go to Grand Jury early on, although the outcome NOW is the same. He’s on trial. Maybe they would not have allowed a Murder 2, but even manslaughter is too much. I guess my point is that the state would have had the benefit of saying … see, the Grand Jury thought there was enough there. And remember, George had those other two clueless, over emotional stooge attorneys at the time. What do you think?

          Like

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Ottawa – The Grand Jury does not determine “Guilt or Innocence”, only if there is enough data to justify the judgment that a crime has even been committed. (Perhaps a lawyer, Kathy, can expand on that issue.) Only the prosecutor (Norm Wolfinger) would have presented the data, and there would be no “private attorney” present. The G.J. does only one of two things – “No Bill” or an indictment. Even IF THE G.J. HAD TURNED IN A NO-BILL – COREY COULD HAVE STILL FILED CHARGES AND GONE TO TRIAL. She has that right an authority. Further, the G. J. deliberations are sealed – so no further review would be possible. Maybe that is not “right” – but that is the way it is. I regret the un-necessary suffering by George and family – because this GJ was denied. The GJ would have HEARD DEEDEE’S statements. The GJ does not rule on 2nd degree, or manslaughter – just if there is enough evidence for a trial. Because Corey could still try George, there WAS NO REASON TO KILL THE GJ HEARING.

            Like

          • marie says:

            Grand juries almost ALWAYS rule for the state–

            As for wanting this to go to trial in order to show the out and out lying of the state and the Crump team and the parents, and to show Trayvon’s gangsta idiocy that got him killed….don’t ever think a jury will rule with the evidence if that jury has tribal loyalties in a high profile case (jury nullification, OJ trial). Don’t ever think a judge will be fair in a high profile case (again, OJ trial.)

            As much as I want to show the liars for what they are, and as much as I believe a full airing of the race baiting and race-grievance society needs to come to a head in this country, there is still every reason to believe that one guy, GZ, will be the sacrificial lamb to protect all those whose careers will be in ruins; mostly, the jury will not acquit, no matter the evidence (OJ,OJ,OJ,OJ,OJ). If the OJ experience doesn’t convince you, think of all the John Gotti trials, all the juries fearful of convicting the Don. The jury system is the best we have, but it’s sorely lacking in many instances, and this would be one, I fear.

            Remember, the powers-that-be in this case are guilty of, at the very least, misleading the public, and at worst, witness tampering and obstruction of justice, and the stench of “I am invested in this outcome” goes all the way up to the governor who appointed Corey.

            Expect the charges to be dropped rather than going to trial, for even when a jury convicted GZ unfairly, it wouldn’t be before the slime was revealed to the country.

            Like

      • Knuckledraggingwino says:

        I’ve almost been there.

        My son who is in college got very drunk (underage) and while he was smart enough to get a ride home they dropped him ff at the wrong townhouse because they ball look alike. He didn’t gave his house keys (with his truck keys) so he knocked on the door and became upset when the residents who he was drunk enough to presume were his roommates, wouldn’t let him in. Thinking it was his own townhouse, he began to dissemble the window screen to get in. The residents called the cops rather than shoot him.

        Under Oregon law, shooting a burglar who is breaking into man occupied home is perfectly legal. I support that law. If my son had been shot by the residents, I would have understood intellectually that they had no way of knowing that he was just cnfused and stupid because he was drunk and meant them no harm. I would hope that I would have had the compassion to respect my intellectual understanding.

        The Martins are a different story. They raised their son to be a thug. They knew he was a thug. When he was missing, they called the police and juvvie presuming that their little thug had been arrested! When it was revealed thatvGZ shot TM because tM attacked him, the Martins knew it was true. They knew it was GZ not TM screaming for help on the 911 tapes. They knew GZ was telling the truth and that TM was the aggressor and that TM would have killed GZ if GZ hadn’t shot in self defense. The Martins don’t care about these facts. It does not matter ton them that their little thug was a a thug who attacked GZ to prove that he was a thug. It was GZ’s fault because GZ accurately profiled their son as a thug and made the tactical mistake of honoring the NEN operator’s request by getting out of the car in an attempt to keep TM under observation.

        Tracy Martin, Sabrina Fulton and Brandy Green are all sewerage slime just like Parks, Crump, Jackson, Jullison, Jesse Jackson and Sharpton. If their scam incites thug riots then they should all be impaled or beaten to death on the Courthouse steps.

        Understand the passion, but for the sake of others who might take you literally…let’s tone down the rhetoric. Admin…

        Like

        • hooson1st says:

          knuckledragger:

          I don’t believe that the Martin’s raised their son to be a thug. And I don’t believe that they are sewerage slime. I don’t see how such derogatory appelations advance the case for GZ’s innocence.

          but, that’s just me.

          Like

          • kathyca says:

            “I don’t believe that the Martin’s raised their son to be a thug”

            Based on what? Or maybe our definitions of raising a child to be a thug differs.

            Like

            • hooson1st says:

              kathyca:

              Based on the fact that we don’t know how he was raised.

              What we have some idea of today is gleaned from his social media postings which give an indication of where his head was at in the present time.

              If those social media postings paint an exact picture of who Trayvon was at the time of his death, it does not mean that his parents approved of such behavior.

              Like

              • myopiafree says:

                Hooson – I think you MISSED THE POINT. It was not whether either parent “approved” of what TM was doing – is was more that they did not give a damn. The real indicator would be that a CONCERNED PARENT – would go into the school and FIND OUT WHY TM WAS SUSPENDED FROM THE SCHOOL, THE FIRST TIME, FOR TEN DAYS. TM’s parents response WOULD BE IN THE SCHOOL RECORDS – AS TO WHAT WAS SAID. (That is why the school records are necessary – if they show that each time, Tray dad went in, I will be glad to take back my words. But I think he was totally indifferent to anything TM was doing in school.

                Like

                • canadacan says:

                  Hoosen. It is my considered opinion that in this matter you are being deliberately obtuse. The Martins didn’t deliberately do anything Except be self absorbed And let their offspring run wild. Sewer scum would be an upgrade for them

                  Like

                  • hooson1st says:

                    canadacan:

                    I would prefer being considered deliberately cautious, rather than deliberately obtuse.

                    The Martins are human beings, as are we all. They suffer pain as do we. They suffer the loss of a son as would any parent. I don’t agree with how they have allowed themselves to be hijacked by Crump and Co. and the race-focused interest groups, but I can understand how this has happened.

                    If,according to your expressed opinion, the Martin’s are lower than “sewer scum”, what would that be? What are the criteria?

                    The fatal confrontation between GZ and TM is a tragedy. There is nothing good about a tragedy.

                    I believe that GZ’s account of transpired that night is essentially accurate. And for GZ, he is being subjected to another part of the tragedy, which is the present legal travail he is undergoing. For Trayvon, the tragedy ended with his life being snuffed.

                    Had GZ not defended himself, the outcome might well have been the other way around. We don’t know. That is why it is defined as speculation.

                    But perhaps, amidst all the speculation, we could agree not to denigrate or demonize the principals on the opposing side.

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I can’t help but wonder, a wolf in sheeps clothing.

                    Like

                • hooson1st says:

                  myopiafree:

                  I will agree with you in part. Under normal circumstances a parent should react in the way that you have outlined. I don’t know how they reacted and I believe that you don’t either. This calls for speculation on our part.

                  Raising children, even with the best of intentions, can be a tough proposition. It is even more difficult when the childhood is punctuated by divorce, higher-crime neighborhoods and the like.

                  While it is possible that neither parent “gave a damn”, I do not believe that that has been established yet. It is a difference opinion.

                  Like

                  • marie says:

                    The minute the parents realized that their son had the opportunity to go “home” , the minute they realized the evidence showed that their son was atop GZ and he broke GZ”s nose, the minute they put that together with all their son’s “fight club” nonsense, all his Facebook bravado, they should have said to themselves, “There was no planned attempt on the part of GZ to kill our child…circumstances and the choices to do what they did that night convened and the result was a tragedy, but not a murder” and they should have gone public with their epiphany, but all they are doing now is conspiring to payback out of anger, out of fear of what society will say about them if they should come clean with their realizations, and perhaps out of fear they will be in legal trouble.

                    Do I believe that even parents can admit the truth to themselves, esp. with the benefit of time, which they have had? You bet I do. Their failure to stop this madness is their sin.

                    Like

              • nameofthepen says:

                hooson1st – ran out of space below, so I’ll reply to your post, timed 10:47 pm, up here

                hooson1st says: Nameofthepen

                That is pretty well where I am coming from.

                I think that some of the comments and descriptions at CTH can be quite rude and offensive at times, but that is all part of freedom of speech. I accept that and benefit from that. Part of the freedom of speech is the freedom to have an differing opinion as to whether such comments are justified.

                I absolutely love your Buddha-like temperance; compassionate, yet self-controlled. I keep expecting someday to hear you say something like, “Grasshopper, be as water.” ;)

                As usual, that was beautifully put. Point well taken, my friend.

                Like

          • ottawa925 says:

            I think that there is plenty of evidence to demonstrate that both Mother and Father put their own interests ahead of raising their son, Trayvon. First, we have divorce, but I’ll give that one, cause lots of ppl get divorced and either have to deal with the effects of divorce on their kids. Let’s put that aside. Trayvon then was raised with Tracy and the next woman (the woman who claims she has been forgotten in this case). I’m not sure about her background, but I do know that many of the ppl who surround the Martin family have been arrested for stuff like petty theft, selling dope, etc. Tracy himself admits on facebook captures that he’s addicted to lap dancing. I’m sorry, but a good Father, thinks less of being a womanizer, hangin with the buds, drinking, doing drugs and more about being with his son and guiding him to a good future. He left his son virtually on his own. A son who was in the years that a father would be competing with culture and peers to set him straight. He said as much in more posts on facebook that were captured when he complained that he and Trayvon were butting heads. The son trying to rule over the father .. and how that was not going to be. I’m sure his son’s behavior was taking HIM by surprise and now he was at a loss HIMSELF as to how to deal with it. The was a train wreck from the get go waiting to happen. Before Trayvon could eventually involve himself in full blown burglary, murder (since we know he wanted to take the life of GZ just for watching him) or full blown drug use, he was in the spiral of thugdom. Because it is the culture for some of these ppl … the music, the gangs, the life … I’m sure Tracy was trying to approach it by trying to be one of Trayvon’s buddies, not his father. Trayvon recognized his father was too busy with broads and drugs and his own thug life. So let’s not make the Martin family out to be the God-fearing, hardworkin black family that is a model on how to have relationship and raise a family. Please spare me on that one.

            Like

            • ottawa925 says:

              Are there no consequences for a young man that is constantly getting suspended from school? … and for what we KNOW the school said. There probably is more that we DO NOT know about and MOM is attempting to find that out. A parent looks at his kid who’s had repeated suspensions, which compromises his education, and where are they? They are not home. They leave Trayvon ALONE with the other lil kid. I’m sorry, but as a parent, there would be NO WAY in hell that kid would be out of my sight, there would be serious consequences for getting suspension after suspension. There would be NO CELL PHONES to talk on for hours on end. Everything he enjoyed wasting time with would be taken away. All of it. Till he got the message and got his act together. Leave him alone? What time did they come home that night? Has that ever been established? The point is you don’t leave troubled kids alone …. EVER.

              Like

              • myopiafree says:

                Hi Ottawa – This was the issue that stumped me. I wondered how much Tray-dad had gone into the school – and complained about that first 10 day suspension!! I thought that MAYBE one parent “went in” to FIND OUT. This is what the school records would TELL US. Who went in? Anyone? Ever? Were EITHER PARENT CONCERNED? Or did they believe that every “black kid” gets suspended as A NORMAL TEENAGER. What the hell did they think – that the school was racist – and out to DENY THIS CUTE BLACK BOY AN EDUCATION? Or is it because they JUST DID NOT GIVE A DAMN? I am certain we all have our own opinion on that issue of parent responsibility – or lack there-of.

                Like

                • LoudaJew says:

                  the suspension for tardiness is BS. illegal under the Code of Student Conduct for M-DCPS. we still don’t know what Trayvon’s latest suspension was for. it wasn’t for having residue and a marijuana pipe. that may have been another suspension. the latest suspension he was expelled. it was for something more serious. I still believe those 3 suspensions were leaked by Crump because anyone having access to M-DCPS attendance can look into his attendance records and see he was suspended 3 times during the past school year.

                  Like

          • strat4evr says:

            ” I don’t see how such derogatory appelations advance the case for GZ’s innocence.”

            1. Obviously neither Sabrina nor Tracy spent much “time” raising Trayvon period.
            2. A lot of evidence of Taryvon’s behavior prior to and during the night of the incident clearly indicates what in my world spells “thug behavior”.

            Just those two points alone advance the case for GZ’s innocence.

            Like

          • Serpentor says:

            their actions speak for themselves, and their actions are worse than TMs

            Like

          • marie says:

            You parents aren’t going to like this, but ALL social science data points to a disheartening fact: a child’s peer group has more influence on his or her behavior than all the years of parenting you do. That is why smart parents do all they can to shape and fashion the kind of friend or groups of friends or classmates their kids are around all day, from a young age.

            As the culture has descended into its pit, it has become more and more difficult for all parents to do that; however, it’s especially tough for concerned black parents because the subculture of hip hop and gangsta has been especially attractive to adolescent black boys both for social (check the social science research) and biological reasons (check the hard science research). Black males reach puberty at an earlier age than boys of all other races (a universal), and are genetically more aggressive than males of other races. Most people who believe in blank slate-ism are incensed by this statement, but they are people unfamiliar with the research, which is extensive. It’s simply a non pc topic, but true, nonetheless.

            Thus, while all children are susceptible to the behavior of peers, and social behavior is susceptible to cultural influences, proclivity toward violence is and always has been more prevalent in certain racial groups than in others. It’s harmful to all kids, but can have even more deleterious effects on black children to be w/out a father in the family.
            Trayvon’s father instinctively knew that, being a black man and having once been a young black male.

            Like

            • Sharon says:

              “You parents aren’t going to like this but ALL social science data points to a disheartening fact: a child’s peer group has more influence on his or her behavior than all the years of parenting you do …”

              I like it just fine and didn’t need social science data to inform me on the matter….. Which is why our sons didn’t have “free time” running around ….it’s also why they were at home when they didn’t have scheduled activities or responsibilities….

              Home was their default location unless there were prior arrangements made and agreed to. Home was not just a place to change clothes or pick up money. In fact, money was not considered a necessity for them. Being alive didn’t qualify them for “free money.” When they got to the point where they “needed money” the solution for that was that they go get a job.

              Apparently we’re dealing with a couple of generations who didn’t/don’t have homes, although they live/d in houses. Big difference.

              Like

              • WeeWeed says:

                +10000000000000000, Sharon. Bingo.

                Like

              • strat4evrs says:

                My 16 year old sons “free time” is engaging in his passion of skateboarding. There are a group of same aged boys, white, black, asian and hispanic who share this passion and I guess you could say hang out together much of the time due to their common interest in this initially. Not all of these kids come from two parent homes including my own son as I am a single father. What has been apparent to me with this particular situation is that I can tell a lot about all these boys watching them on a regular basis and fortunately they all seem to have the appearance and respectfulness of what I would assume is a well rounded teen with obvious parental influence of the type that reflects well on them. My point is that social science data as referenced here, because it seems to only take on the question of effects on the Black community per se and is far short of addressing actual true life data of all kids, misses the point. There are hundreds of thousands of families, single and dual parent, that successfully raise children who are not thugs, misfits or just messed up for whatever their reasons. It is, I think, the minority that gets the headlines that are the true misfits of society and the majority that produce the true silent heroes.
                A few bad apples can spoil the barrel if allowed to remain. Remove them and you will still have a full barrel of good apples.

                Like

          • nameofthepen says:

            Hey, Hooson – Yow! You’re kinda under the gun. Hang in there. :D

            Just dropped by to say I agree with “I don’t see how such derogatory appelations advance the case for GZ’s innocence.”

            I would add it doesn’t advance the collection, and public disclosure, of gross evidence of prosecution wrongdoing, either.

            I have a feeling a lot of eyes are on this blog now, and more are coming each day.

            Prolly a good idea we be mindin’ our mannerz right now. Just sayin’… ;)

            Like

            • rumpole2 says:

              I think the “manners” here are just right… take us as you find us :D

              Making “fun” of people, (used sparingly) can be a weapon to highlight their silliness, hypocrisy etc.
              Humour, satire, etc….even “name calling” are recognised “weapons” in advertising, politics etc Obviously it should not descend into potty-mouthed hate speech spewed by The Prune and her puppies. But I have not seen such low class, crass behaviour here.
              Traybots admit to reading here.. take stuff back and boast of it in their sewer. Some of my posting is done with their reading it in mind, and they fall for it every time :D

              Like

              • Ad rem says:

                “The Prune and her puppies”…….LOLOL!

                Like

              • nameofthepen says:

                Thanks for sharing that, Rumpole.

                I think the best groups need no police, because they are self-policing.

                Like

              • strat4evr says:

                Maybe I didn’t word it just right or my post is irrelevant to some. I actually was agreeing with Sharon’s post re: peer groups having influence and what parenting has to do with that. Nameofthepen, I fully respect your opinion with Hooson but I disagree with you both.
                Mr. Martin and Ms. Fulton by now if not before are fully aware. They have chosen to remain on the money train or at least the perceived grieving parents when I know in my heart that as a parent I would have approached this sooooooo differently. If George Zimmerman had been a black man and fit all the narratives we would not be having these discussions I assure you. Your willingness to defend Tracy Martin and Sabrina Fulton as parents is understandable. Oh, wait, I don’t understand. What was I saying?

                Like

                • nameofthepen says:

                  strat4evr says: “Your willingness to defend Tracy Martin and Sabrina Fulton as parents is understandable.”

                  I guess I didn’t express myself well. My comment doesn’t defend Martin/Fulton. It was a gentle protest about the way a certain comment from one of our guys was worded.

                  Like

                  • hooson1st says:

                    nameofthepen

                    That is pretty well where I am coming from.

                    I think that some of the comments and descriptions at CTH can be quite rude and offensive at times, but that is all part of freedom of speech. I accept that and benefit from that. Part of the freedom of speech is the freedom to have an differing opinion as to whether such comments are justified.

                    Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Yeah, I don’t believe, I really seriously don’t believe, that if George was black, that Tracy and Sybrina would be acting the way they’ve acted. Of course the whole race-baiting train would never have gotten rolling… but I’m just talking about those two individuals. I think a big reason they’re so willing to keep trying to destroy George is because he’s not black. And DESTROY George and his family and friends is EXACTLY what Tracy and Sybrina are trying to do… and have been doing it for many months now. I know they paid lip service when it happened, but does anyone really believe that those two disagreed with what the NBPP was doing? Does anyone really believe that had the NBPP succeeded in their bounty, that Tracy and Sybrina would have lost one minute’s sleep over it?

                  Like

              • canadacan says:

                Spot on as usual Richard. Some folks like to over intellectualize This situation. I have neither the. Compassion or the time To regurgitate doctor Spock. This is a dire situation Which needs to be dealt with expeditiously.
                The opposition here is a cynicalthug class without compassion Who deliberately set George up. I am NOT playing nice here. The quality of a man’s life is at stake. This is no time for obtuse intellectualism In my opinion. Just got back from working for a living And decided to speak my piece.

                Like

              • hooson1st says:

                Rumpole:

                Making fun of people, sometimes may illuminate more about ourselves than it reveals about the targets of our ruminations.

                Like

            • Sharon says:

              I don’t think those who are weary of having Trayvon’s parents’ habits shoved in their face are commenting on them as an argument for George’s innocence. I think they are commenting on them as a matter of opinion. And it’s jacking up the argument in a disconnected way to claim that them holding that opinion “doesn’t support George’s innocence….” Nobody said it did.

              The goal of this site has never been to “prove George’s innocence.” It has been to defend him against false charges based on false testimony. Big difference.

              We do not march in lockstep on any specific aspect of the issue. If individuals care to comment on the lack of parent on the part of Trayvon’s parents, good grief–they should be able to do that without being accused of undercutting the arguments of the truth that are George’s defense….and they should be able to do it without having to have a 48″ debate about secondary and tertiary potential effects of them stating their opinion.

              And that’s my opinion.

              Why should Hooson be seen as being “under the gun….”? Hooson didn’t like what some people said. And they responded. Hooson is not under any gun. This is a conversation. It’s not an election.

              Like

              • Sharon says:

                Further thought–any manners that need to be minded should be minded all the time–not just because there are more and more and more and more “new readers”….we’ve been dealing with that reality for a very long time—it might shock some to know we had “new readers” whose presence was interesting way back—-how far back??? WAY before Travon Martin died. Sheesh. This site did not start with Trayvon Martin’s death and its purpose was not defined by Trayvon Martin’s death.

                Like

                • rumpole2 says:

                  Several of us found this place because of the TM case… that remains a focus, but speaking personally, I am glad I found the place for general and political discussion as well.
                  Plus this place has kittehs……purrfect!! :D

                  Like

              • nameofthepen says:

                Sharon, thank you for the reply. I understand your point to a certain extent.

                Daily, I see the outrage here when other blogs impugn/insult George’s honor, ethics, morals, looks, friends, intelligence, family connections, etc., based on no info, or little info, incorrectly, even hatefully interpreted.

                It certainly has nothing to do with the legal case, and just serves to inflame passions.

                If I see something here I think needs to be nudged, I’m gonna nudge it.

                Sorry if that offends. But, I’d rather nudge than sit by like a potted plant.

                Like

              • Knuckledraggingwino says:

                Amen!

                I am trying to get the conversation to touch on both the root causes and the potential consequences of the case.

                The scheme team did more than engage in a blatant fraud to line their pockets or advance their political agenda. The were committing extortion by threatening to use their fraudulent evidence to incite thug riots at a time when unemployment rates for African Americans are sky high. These riots could potentially have resulted in not just dozens or hundreds, but thousands of fatalities. By injecting himself into the scheme with his idiotic, “if I had a son he’d look like Trayvon Martin,” President Obama elevated these potential thug riots to civil war that might dictate the future of the country. I have far less restrained conversations elsewhere with other people such as myself. If Crump and Obama had succeeded in inciting riots, we would have finished them.

                Take a look at a dump truck. That box on the back is usually made out of T-1 armor plate that will stop anything smaller than .50 caliber. Lots of small construction companies are struggling to survive Obama’s economic imbecility. Imagine the prospect of thousands of like minded “rednecks” responding to thug riots by adding a little steel to the doors and engine on their dump trucks, then loading up with a guy literally riding shotgun and a dozen more with rifles and shotguns in the back, then going on a thunder run through the nearest, African-American neighborhood.

                Crump and the Martins were threatening to initiate events that could have had nuclear level fatalities.

                No, the issue in the GZ case isn’t SYG laws, CCW laws or the gun culture, it is the thug culture. I’ve cited FBI crime stats repeatedly that document the astonishingly high homicide rate of African-Americans vs the general population. 12% of the population commits over half the homicide. When you narrow it down to young black males, we have 1% of the population committing over 1/3 of homicides. As that imbecilic NFL broadcaster observed, thwe need to have a conversation. But the conversation shouldn’t be about guns and the gun culture. The conversation should be about Black people and the Black culture.

                Making an example of the Martins and Crump is infinitely superior to having these issues fester until some other punk gets himself shot and his parents succeed in inciting a civil war.

                Like

                • Another thought to the beginning of the race riot theme is that it was INTENTIONALLY ginned up by Roland Martin, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, New Black Panthers, NAACP, etc. and their race pimping at every opportunity. Tracy knew how and why TM died — heck, he heard the 911 calls and got the whole night’s recap from the lead investigator, and he passed that info along to Sybrina. It was Sharpton, NAACP, NBPP, Julison and the Scheme Team that dragged in Tracy and Sybrina to use them for the “greater good” of getting the payday.

                  When Crumpet and Sybrina were guests on The O’Reilly Factor, Bill told Sybrina at the end of the segment that she was being used by the race pimps for their benefit (riots, hoodie marches, threats to community, etc., and that if she wanted to honor the memory of her son, not to allow herself to be hijacked by that group of bottom-feeders. She chose to follow the path she was traveling and neglected some very sound advice.

                  When all of the hoopla is over, I would bet that Sybrina and Tracy will blame themselves for their self-reflective personal failures as parents and neglect of their son, but at the moment they are burying those feelings under an easier option — blaming everyone else. The truth eventually comes back to light.

                  Like

              • hooson1st says:

                Sharon:
                When you believe, as I do, that GZ acted rationally, given the circumstances we believe he was faced with, and tragedy though it was all the way around; it can be difficult to observe the politicization of the case and the public relations games being played by the race-focused and anti-gun forces.

                I presume as you certainly do that Tracy and Sybrina were not the examplars of parenthood that is projected through their public meetings.

                I go a step further, and presume that they are not the dregs of society that some of the commenters here assert them to be. It may be that I totally wrong about this. It may be that I am naive or obtuse etc about this. I am willing to be wrong, and I am equally willing to admit it.

                So our opinions will conflict from time to time, and that is as it should be. My opinions should be challenged.

                And when I read an opinion that makes we wince, I may express my opinion on that.

                There is much opinion and speculation here at CTH.

                And there is much thought-provoking discussion on the vital issues of the day, which don’t get addressed as directly elsewhere on the web. That is the strength of CTH.

                Like

                • howie says:

                  I agree. They were not Dregs. They were MC Blacks. That is even worse. They are also brainwashed and unable to separate right from wrong. In fact they may even think they are in the right. They should know better. They, their son, the media, all of them may think they are pursuing a just cause. But nothing could be further from the truth.

                  Like

          • Knuckledraggingwino says:

            It might not have been TracybMartin and Sabrina Fultan’s intention tonraise their son to be a thug, but they made a number of decisions and engaged in specific behaviors that made it likely that he would grow up to be a thug.

            First and foremost, the Martins got divorced which dramaticly increased the risk that TM would grow up to be a thug. I know, a lot of people get divorced, ut it is well known that this increases the risks for children.

            Secondly, Sabrina Fulton declined to continue raising TM and keep custody of him. Judges never grant custody to the dad unless mom is a crack head, so this was a decision on Sabrina’s part.

            Thirdly; after finding and marrying a woman who apparently was willing to do a damn good job of raising her stepson, Tracy Martin cheats on then divorces her. The infidelity was so damn blatant that he took TM with him to BG’s before filing for divorce and it appears that TM had been at the RTL before TM separated from Alicia Martin. Can you imagine the psychological effect that this had on a teenaged male? Rejected by his biomom then Daddy makes him a conspirator in cheating on his surrogate mom. No wonder TM was so disrespectful to women. (I still get a chuckle out of him dissing his girlfriends for being “loose” both morally as well as anatomically. What does that imply about TM?). It appears that TM’s behavior rapidly degenerated at or about the time of Daddy’s philandering and womanizing.

            Fourth; when TM started having serious discipline problems at school, both TrayMom and TrayDad did nothing. TrayMom was too busy flaunting the TrayTattoo on the TrayBoob to supervise him so TrayDad too him to stay with his latest whore in Sanford. Unfortunately; TrayDad was too busy taking his new whore to the pseudo Masonic orgy, excuse me “convention” to supervise his little thug, so he gave him a few hundred bucks to cover food and entertainment (drugs included obviously) for the weekend and leftnhim too fend for himself.

            I reiterate. When TrayDad realized that TM was missing, he presumed the thug had been arrested because he had been raised as a thug. Then when he discoverred that his thug had been shot and listened to the 911 tapes that recorded GZ screaming for help as his thug son was beating him to death, he lawyers up to protest the police not making an arrest so it can be his pay day.

            I reiterate. Tracy Martin and Sabrina Fulton are sewerage slime. GZ should be filing a lawsuit against them for raising their son to be a thug then negligently allowing him to run loose through the neighborhood.

            Like

        • Knuckledraggingwino says:

          Okay, I’ll tone it down.

          How about a good flogging or branding?

          Seriously; the CTH has documented revenge assaults and possible murders in retribution for the fiction that GZ murderred TM. The people responsible need to suffer consequences.

          For Crump I recomend castration, the old fashioned way, using non anesthetic and a stone axe.

          If you don’t like these ideas, how about reinstating the time honored practice of dueling.

          Like

          • Ad rem says:

            Did somebody add something to the water today? Sheesh! We simply request that you refrain posting “fodder” for other sites to use in the form of “screencaps”. It might make YOU feel good to vent your anger, but do you think it helps the Zimmerman family to have our stuff taken out of context and used to whip up anger and rage at other forums? Really?

            Like

          • boricuafudd says:

            Knuckle- not to get you started again but, it is not black thug culture anymore, it is very mainstream now, all over America. Urban thug culture might be a better description, and I agree a discussion about how this is affecting everyone needs to be had but, we can’t confine it to just the AA community. They are the most affected but not the only ones.

            Like

      • Cupcake says:

        Yes, I can relate from a parent’s point of view as I am a parent of a teenager and would do anything for her, but my point was the host said “when their child his shot and killed FOR NO REASON”, emphasizing the “NO REASON” part.

        Like

        • TandCrumpettes says:

          Exactly.

          If TM were shot for “no reason” –

          There would be no NEN call, because nothing out of the ordinary caught GZs attention.
          George would not have begged for police to come ASAP, because TM was not circling the vehicle.
          George would not have gotten out of the car, because TM didn’t run away when he heard George beg for police.
          Neighbors would not have heard scuffling, because there was no fight.
          No one would have called 911, because nothing distracted anyone from their televisions.
          The audio would not have caught George screaming, because he wasn’t being attacked.
          George would not have injuries, because he was not beaten.
          TM would have been safe at home, because he went straight there.

          Like

        • Sentenza says:

          Maybe someone should ask one the Revered Doctor Jesse Jackson or the Doctor Reverend Al Sharpton about this piece of wisdom:

          Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

          Not sure where I’ve seen that before. Maybe they know.

          Like

    • diwataman says:

      Yep. From 6:06 – 6:55 is exactly the same attitude I ran into with my buddy Pyrrho314 over on youtube. I could never figure out how they could justify it. One week into the investigation and the grieving parents had a team of lawyers in place, a spin doctor and started spewing their lies in the media with absolutely no regard for the facts and without challenge from the media. There is no justification for it.

      https://twitter.com/VinniePolitan

      http://www.youtube.com/user/pyrrho314

      Like

  17. hooson1st says:

    I am reposting this from the 7 Dec thread concerning Crump

    In the interview, at about 10:05 Crump states the following:

    “I’ve talked to this young lady (DeeDee) once in my life…and that is it”

    This is a very curious statement, considering that Gutman, for one, says that he spoke with DeeDee numerous times. A reporter speaks with the key witness numerous times, yet, the attorney who would benefit the most from her testimony speaks with her once – and contextually – not in person, but over a telephone?

    And if he did not talk with her further, would it not indicate, from a practical perspective, that he did not consider her proposed testimony to be worthwhile?

    Like

  18. I’m beginning to understand why people sometimes post to blogs with nothing more than “following”.

    Like

  19. I haven’t been keeping up. Was a link to the complete MOM/West interview posted somewhere? TYI

    Like

  20. hoffstyle71 says:

    I would like to remind you all that Trutv and it’s associated wonks and wonkettes are part of an entertainment network bringing you such hard hitting reality such as “Hardcore Pawn” and “South Beach Tow”. It caters to people who sit at home in front of the television all day. Vinnie Politan is as much a legal expert as Dr. Pepper is a Doctor. Just saying :)

    Like

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      That’s very true. Notice the commercials?

      I have a structured settlement and need cash NOW!
      Don’t feel like wearing pants in public? Wear pajama jeans!
      Did your uterus fall out after surgery? Come sue with us!
      Is eating cake with a fork too difficult? Cake pops!

      Like

      • hoffstyle71 says:

        Need Insurance? Call the General!

        Like

      • thefirstab says:

        ” Did your uterus fall out after surgery? Come sue with us!
        Is eating cake with a fork too difficult? Cake pops!”
        HAHAHA :) :D
        I’ve been enjoying your posts, TandC. Very busy with holidays, but had to get my “fix” when I saw the latest developments on this case.

        Your previous comment re: NO REASON for TM being shot and killed — absolutely agree. I am so furious at the “pass” the prosecution and Scheme Team have received 9and apparently, it continues) on their tall tales, inflammatory choice of words, etc. IMO they are specifically designed to “incite” the public’s rage and emotions. Wasn’t there some type of gag order put on these guys? Or the “govern yourselves accordingly” was the same type of thing?

        Like

        • thefirstab says:

          i usually edit before posting, sorry – ( instead of 9

          Like

        • TandCrumpettes says:

          Thank you so much! I’m glad you’re enjoying “me.” I like to add some levity – if I don’t laugh about it, I’ll cry.

          I wonder what the families of the Son of Sam, D.C. Sniper, or Aurora victims would say about this. I’m sure they don’t mind that TM is being put in the same victim category as their loved ones. “No reason” and all.

          Its so unfortunate that we do have people shot for no reason in our culture, but I must say I’ve never seen a victim killed “in cold blood,” being seen beating someone to death seconds earlier.

          Like

      • scubachick75 says:

        Ever notice the sound gets louder on those stupid commercials?

        Like

  21. metrometeor says:

    I can smell the white guilt over my monitor…

    Like

  22. mung says:

    Freddy says that the NBC case is BS and will get thrown out.

    Like

  23. david says:

    Forrest Crump says he has talked to Dumb Dumb once in his life. Well that’s a bunch of horse manure because the motion shows Crumple was also present for Dumb Dumb’s interview with Baldy De La Rionda.

    Like

    • dizzymissl says:

      Maybe this is the proof that there are two DeeDees?

      Like

    • hooson1st says:

      David:
      I thought I read somewhere that DeeDee didn’t show up right away. And the BDLR interview w/DeeDee said something about Crump having been there earlier. So it is possible that they did not intersect that day.

      Plus, assuming that Crump only talked to her once doesn’t mean that she wasn’t under the wing of Natalie or Parks, or someone else, which would give Crump cover to be more brash in his statements to the press.

      Like

  24. ytz4mee says:

    Again, shifty eyed Crumpster NEVER answers the question.
    And, it’s all about denying George Zimmerman any type of immunity from what the Scheme Team has teed up as a big payoff. The Crumpster and the Scheme Team want any type of immunity from self-defense actions to be destroyed. The Zimmerman case in part, was set up to erode the right to claim self defense and “true immunity”.

    Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      I hope the cameras are on him and the rest of them when George is declared immune. I want to watch his presser and what Martin’s parents say. I may be dreaming but wouldn’t it be nice to see him handcuffed and taken into custody on live TV?

      Like

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      I can imagine that ANY deposition of Crump will be a rather lennngthy affair, considering his deliberate reluctance to answer *any* question directly and the inevitable “I object to the format of the question” objections by BDLR. It will probably take 3 full days just to get Crump’s full name entered into the record!

      Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        No one has speculated on who he will retain as his attorney. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

        I am wondering if he has ever been in this position before.

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Yeah, Bernie is something else. He kept saying that, and finally MOM is like, “Well, if you tell me what problem you have with the format, I’ll be happy to reword it.” And Bernie says something like, “No, you just say whatever you want, and I’ll just keep objecting if I feel like it.” ;)

        Like

  25. david says:

    If Crumple’s tape was was just a “bad recording” what does Matt Guttman have a crystal clear copy? DERP!!!!!!!

    Like

  26. dizzymissl says:

    In the above interview, Clump says that he talked to DeeDee ONE TIME only. In BLDRs interview with DeeDee, he says something like, “you know, Mr. Clump–he was here earlier”.

    Like

  27. david says:

    Crumple told Vinnie Politan that dumb dumb was “attacked”. In the first couple questions of BDLR’s interview he asks “did anyone threaten or harass you” followed by dumb dumb saying “no”……Crumple fails again!

    Like

  28. dizzymissl says:

    Can we please add this dolt Vinnie to the list of those will will get served with a lawsuit?

    Like

    • Alexandra M. says:

      I totally agree about Vinnie. What the H3LL is he thinking with his absurd commentary? He was (IMO) correct to bombast and criticize now convicted-murderer Drew Peterson (Illinois) and it was great to see him hit Drew’s mafioso mob of lawyers with TOUGH questions. But his obvious pandering with Crump? Nothing short of disgusting…..and grossly ill-informed!!

      Like

  29. david says:

    If Crumple was having a difficult time getting a good recording by phone why didnt he just make an appointment to go see dee dee in person to record?

    Like

    • boutis says:

      They couldn’t find her. She was avoiding them. Sounds like she didn’t show and they had to run her down and settle with a phone call. So they sat around with Gutman and his sound guy waiting for the BIG event and nothing. She stood them up, stiffed ‘em. All of them. What a screw up. Then an unintelligible phone call, starting and stopping. She did not want to do it. They could not observe her talking. Was she drunk, stoned, scared, sick, have gun to her head or sitting with her parents? What was going on? Depositions, questioning etc is done in controlled settings and this was anything but. It is all a joke and someone was charged with murder with the evidence gathered at a clown circus.

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        “They couldn’t find her. She was avoiding them.”

        Perhaps the phone call was intended to create a protective shield between Dee Dee and Crump et al. Who was with Dee Dee during the call ?

        Typically, during interviews and depositions, the standard practice is to note on the record all individuals in attendance, along with the date, time, name, DOB, address of person interviewed, along with the name of the individual asking the questions.

        Departure from these practices by a litigation experienced attorney should raise questions.

        Like

        • Cupcake says:

          John Galt: would deviating from the interview standards you mentioned imply any sort of ethics violation?

          Has anything Crump done in this case reflected standard practices?

          Like

          • John Galt says:

            “would deviating from the interview standards you mentioned imply any sort of ethics violation?”

            Ethics violations are determined with reference to the rules of professional conduct which frown, for example, on lying as well as prejudicial pretrial statements.

            http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/fl/code/

            “Has anything Crump done in this case reflected standard practices?”

            Perhaps standard practices for Crump.

            Like

        • boutis says:

          It is worthless. It could have been another person, she could have been under duress with someone standing over her and threatening, etc. She presented no ID, etc. Why should MOM and West (and Beasley) accept the word of Crump or for that matter Gutman. Crump has to be a witness so the evidence that HE constructed, gathered, broadcast, and endlessly talks about can be verified and/or impeached. LOL. If he had handed the lead for evidence over to LE he would not be in this predicament. Of course Crump could not have LE digging around and declaring it garbage. He needed W8 story viable long enough for settlements. It really is karma.

          Like

          • boutis says:

            I see references to this whole thing being like a Grisham or Sanford novel. It really is much more like a Carl Hiaason novel full of crazies and incompetents featuring the bizarreness of a subset of Floridians. Of course it would never be published because of political correctness.

            Like

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Boutis – It would also not be published – because no one would believe that the prosecutors were go incredibly incompetent and totally DENSE. Nope, no own would believe that Corey would call Harvard and insist they FIRE a world-famous professor – because he had the courage to question HER expertise.

              Like

  30. david says:

    the Traybots overlook that the dates on the phone records Crumple provided go from 2/26 to 3/2 around the time in question and then back to 2/26…..cut and paste much?

    Like

  31. ottawa925 says:

    myopiafree? Could you scroll up and give me your opinion on my Grand Jury posting? Cause I am interested to see what you have to say about it … and anyone else too, of course. I just want to know if I’m way off in my thinking …. er what. Thanks.

    Like

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Well, since you asked…

      Let me begin with the obvious disclaimer that IANAL, and speak purely from the viewpoint of an interested party.

      The decision (by Norm Wolfinger) to submit this matter to a GJ seemed, on the surface, to be a good one since he had already expressed the opinion that there was insufficient evidence to formally charge George Zimmerman with a crime. However, in retrospect, that decision was not the best choice, and for at least reasons that extend beyond the sole matter of George’s guilt or innocence.

      First, the integrity of the initial investigation was already being questioned, as was the integrity of the SPD and the 18th District SAO, itself. To defer the decision to the GJ would only fuel the accusations of impropriety and add (seemingly) to their credibility. After all, a “No Bill” would result in even MORE charges of a corrupt system, and a decision (by a GJ) to charge George would be viewed as an affirmation that the investigation and the associated offices mentioned above were not interested in justice. It was a “lose/lose” situation.

      Secondly, the accused, himself, would suffer no more from a GJ decision to proceed with charges than he would from the the filing of an information (such as the one used by AC) but he had much to lose from a “No Bill” return. His reputation had *already* been destroyed, his employment had already been lost, he was a pariah in much of his own community and his very life (and those of his family members) was already being threatened by people who seemed to present a very credible threat, and the means to carry it out. A “No Bill” decision by the GJ would end the official investigation and deny the accused of any opportunity to “clear his name” or re-establish his standing in the community.

      Now, one could argue (and rightfully so) that the decisions to seat (or not seat) a grand jury, or to charge (or not charge), *should* not be influenced by considerations external to the facts of the case itself, and I wholeheartedly agree with that position. However, while it is clear that those decisions *should* not be influenced, the fact remains that they often *are* influenced. And, even though I would *most likely* not agree if I was George Zimmerman (or found myself to be in his position), the decision to charge George may have been the best thing that could have happened:

      The subsequent federal investigations have publicly revealed that George is NOT a racist. The subsequent FDLE investigations have revealed that the allegation that George used undue force (while working as security at parties) is unfounded. The same investigations provided access to at least one witness who corroborated George’s claim that he was innocent when arrested in 2005. The subsequent efforts of his attorneys forced the state to release photos that demonstrate the extent of George’s injuries suffered at the hands of the deceased, and refute the claims that George acted outside the domain of self defense.

      So, to be (not so) short, the malicious decision (by Angela Corey) to circumvent a GJ that *could* have been seated *by her* may very well prove to be the best thing to come out of this, even if that decision was made for all the wrong reasons.

      Like

      • nameofthepen says:

        LetJusticePrevail – Thoughtful, and thought-provoking. “…the decision to charge George may have been the best thing that could have happened”.

        That could turn out to be absolutely true on many different levels of play – not just George’s immediate situation. :)

        Like

    • myopiafree says:

      HI Otawa – I just responded. If Kathy is available (or other lawyer) I would like their opinion.
      Free> – The Grand Jury does not determine “Guilt or Innocence”, only if there is enough data to justify the judgment that a crime has even been committed….

      Like

      • hooson1st says:

        provided that the prosecutor has acted ethically in insuring the integrity of the evidence being presented to the grand jury.

        Like

        • ottawa925 says:

          and that’s the point … she isn’t ethical and proved it when she filed that sham of an Affidavit. Why would a GJ stop her? I’m sure you have seen or heard Alan Dershowitz explain what was wrong with the Affidavit in the first place. Here’s an article I picked at random:

          http://www.newsmax.com/AlanDershowitz/Zimmerman-Trayvon-Angela-Corey/2012/06/05/id/441305

          And btw, will Mom and West go after her on the Affidavit? Dershowitz believes there’s plenty there to have her disciplined severely … the Judge that accepted it for filing too IMO.

          Like

          • myopiafree says:

            Thanks Ottawa – I had not seen Alan’s response. Corey is so arrogant, that she is “stupid” with her hubris.
            +++
            Alan> When the communications official explained to her that I have a right to express my opinion as “a matter of academic freedom,” and that Harvard has no control over what I say, she did not seem to understand.

            She persisted in her nonstop whining, claiming that she is prohibited from responding to my attacks by the rules of professional responsibility — without mentioning that she has repeatedly held her own press conferences and made public statements throughout her career.

            Her beef was that I criticized her for filing a misleading affidavit that willfully omitted all information about the injuries Zimmerman had sustained during the “struggle” it described. She denied that she had any obligation to include in the affidavit truthful material that was favorable to the defense.

            [ Free> Comment – “DISCOVERY” means that the prosecutor turns over ALL INFORMATION ON THE CASE TO THE DEFENSE. It is not OK, to blot out information that exculpates George Zimmerman. Further, is it not OK to allow a “star chamber witness” to testify against George – with no chance to examine her credibility. This woman should have flunked “Discovery 101″. She is just plain INCOMPETENT. ]

            She insisted that she is entitled to submit what, in effect, were half truths in an affidavit of probable cause, so long as she subsequently provides the defense with exculpatory evidence.

            She should go back to law school, where she will learn that it is never appropriate to submit an affidavit that contains a half truth, because a half truth is regarded by the law as a lie, and anyone who submits an affidavit swears to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
            ++++
            Alan is exactly correct. Corey and Bernie have flouted the INTENT of honest discovery. This is BOTH un-ethical and dishonest – for both TRUTH and JUSTICE. This is prosecutorial misconduct OF THE WORST SORT.

            Like

          • minor4 says:

            I believe O’Mara will attack the PC affidavit. He indicated as much in one of his interviews a couple of months ago. That might be done in connection with the immunity hearing ..or really it could be brought at any time, but it’s usually part of a preliminary hearing closer to trial.

            BTW – is there a date set for the immunity hearing? I think some of the timing and strategy will depend on the outcome of the 12-11 hearing and whatever else is learned in discovery. Zimmerman is in a good position right now, with many options. He’s got the prosecution on their heels.

            Like

          • ottawa925 says:

            ok, to all the posters who posted on this Affidavit business, Dershowitz claims the Affidavit was improper cause it did not include ALL evidence, not only evidence that she believed to support Murder 2, which is laughlable, but she did not show George’s injuries. She claimed in her little spat with Alan that she had no obligation to include that evidence. Alan says she does. That the Affidavit is to present it all and is not to leave out evidence that may support George’s side of the matter. If Alan is correct, which (gotta smirk here) I believe he is … I mean the man is an EXPERT on Appeals and the machinations of prosecutors, then I think that MOM and West need to start pounding on this issue as soon as possible. So that the negligence of Corey and those who helped her craft the Affidavit are exposed and punished for it. Remember how the dream team in the OJ trial turned deflected the trial away from OJ … and turned it into the Mark Fuhrman trial? This tactic could be used here, and regardless whether my idea of turning it into the trial of the Corey and crew, it still should come out early, so that the Judge and public get use to hearing about the misconduct of Corey. Gotta pound that over and over. Remember, Corey said she had no obligation to do so. She’s locked into that from her fight with Alan. Alan says she has every obligation to do and that NOT doing so is MISCONDUCT. The photos that they recently released of George’s injuries are a great segway into the Affidavit. So what not start connecting the two right now?

            Like

            • ottawa925 says:

              From the above article written by AD: “She denied that she had any obligation to include in the affidavit truthful material that was favorable to the defense.”

              Like

      • boricuafudd says:

        HI Myopia, they also suggest a charge if any. For instance, they could have looked at the evidence presented and say there was enough for a Manslaughter charge only, and it is a majority of the vote needed. It does not have to be unanimous.

        Like

        • ottawa925 says:

          yeah … like look at evidence presented like in the Affidavit? that left out the injuries to GZ? that kind of evidence? were they gonna show the GJ the color photos of George’s injuries that we just saw a couple of days ago? phfffft

          Like

          • boricuafudd says:

            That is why it is said that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich, the question is always of what, based on what information.

            Like

            • floridianne says:

              But….Wolfinger has a very good reputation. I do not believe for a minute that he would have witheld exculpatory information or evidence (injury photos ) from the GJ. And he certainly would not be attempting to influence (change/limit) law enforcement testimony. Coreyfong new that a full revealing of all the evidence and testimony to the GJ would have resulted in a no bill, which is of course,why she avoided it. The GJ may have even suggested charging the decedent with aggravated battery, posthumously, if that was possible……wink.

              Like

              • myopiafree says:

                Hi Dianne – In addition, he would have called DeeDee – so they could judge her and her statements about TM – and his actions. You are correct, they would have made a choice of “Bill” or “No Bill”.

                Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  I have mentioned this before but has anyone seen the subpoena that was issued for her to appear before the GJ? The one with her address on it?

                  Like

              • jordan2222 says:

                Maybe my memory is faulty but I think I remember that he was pressured to have the GJ hear this. What I mean is that before the case got out of hand, he had concluded that there were no grounds for charges or an arrest and therefore no need for a grand jury. That only changed after Crump got involved and made this into the tragedy that it has become.

                Like

                • howie says:

                  Wolfinger signed a letter requesting Scott to appoint the SP. This was after a meeting about it. I wish he would be deposed and reveal what pressure was applied. It said something about reducing the community unrest and removing any shadows of racism. Some BS to that effect. The Justice Dept. Task Force for Community relations had arrived in town a few days before. This was on March 22. Now, maybe the SP idea came from Holder and Obama through the task force.

                  Like

                  • nameofthepen says:

                    Howie says: – “The Justice Dept. Task Force for Community relations had arrived in town a few days before. This was on March 22. Now, maybe the SP idea came from Holder and Obama through the task force.”
                    :idea: !! That’s some foxy brainstorming, Howie.

                    Like

                • LetJusticePrevail says:

                  I always found the timeline surrounding Norm Wolfinger’s involvement very interesting:

                  3/13-NW issues press release acknowledging receipt of an information packet from the SPD (presumably this was Chris Serino’s capias request, among other things)

                  3/15-NW sends letter to Gerald Bailey, Commissioner of the FDLE, requesting investigative assistance from the FDLE

                  3/20-NW issues press release acknowledging assistance of FDLE since 3/16, and announces that he will be using the “investigative resources” of the Seminole County Grand Jury scheduled to be in session on April 10th

                  3/22- NW sends letter to Rick Scott requesting that the case be reassigned citing “the interest of the public safety” and “to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest”
                  as the reasons

                  3/22-Governor Rick Scott issues executive order 12-72 assigning Angela Corey to “discharge the duties the Hon Norm Wolfinginger as they relate to the investigation and all matters pertaining to the death of Trayvon Benjamin Martin”… “for a period of one year, to and including 3/22/13.”

                  4/20-Norm Wolfinger issues press release stating he would not seek re-election

                  Some interesting observations include the following:

                  The FDLE involvement officially and *coincidentally* began on 3/16, the same day that Mayor Jeff Triplett allowed the Martin family to review the 911 tapes

                  SPD Police Chief Bill Lee *coincidentally* offered his temporary resignation on 3/22, the same day that Norm Wolfinger asked for reassignment of the case

                  Norm Wolfinger’s announcement of the GJ *coincides* with the date that Ben Crump revealed the existence of “DeeDee”

                  Norm Wolfinger requested the case to be reassigned only 2 days after he had scheduled it to be heard by a grand jury, which seems to be a flip flop. Why schedule a GJ if he was removing himself? Was the announcement (of the GJ) an act of *defiance* before he removed himself? OR Was the assignment to the GJ a response to Ben Crump’s announcement, for which he was *forced* to remove himself?

                  Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Excellent research. I do not dare speculate about what happened except to say that the “normal” process did not happen. Who conspired/colluded with whom? I do not know but more than one person appears to have been involved this decision. The entire thing stinks and a GJ should be convened to investigate it and root out the bad guys.

                    Like

                  • howie says:

                    I am thinking this is a co-ordination from the CRS. Now comes the question of CRS involvement with Lester and even Nelson. I for sure remember Lester saying in open court “we are supposed to be tamping this down.” If that is not a violation of due process nothing is. I think the appeals court would put this out of its misery if that can be established. The CRS motion next week is one to watch. Fitting the timeline to the CRS and other things is a good way to figure it out. Things that make no sense start to add up when you add the “Invisible Empire” of the CRS.

                    Like

              • howie says:

                Do you know it his letter to Scott requesting a Special Prosecutor was written by him? Or was it given to him and he just signed it? I may have been overlooking the most important part of this whole disaster. The origin of and enablers of the scheme may have been aided by undercover federal agents.

                Like

                • LetJusticePrevail says:

                  The typewritten letter was on the official letterhead of his office, but that does not prove that he actually wrote it, or did not sign it under pressure from *outside sources*

                  Like

                  • howie says:

                    The language though is similar to the CRS mission listed on their Just Us Dept. Website. It does not sound like something Wolfinger would write.

                    Like

          • ftsk420 says:

            Since the role of the grand jury is only to determine probable cause, there is no need for the jury to hear all the evidence, or even conflicting evidence. It is left to the good faith of the prosecutor to present conflicting evidence.

            Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        LJP … you are addressing what I was trying to get at and I think we are in agreement by the looks of your last paragraph.

        Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        myopiafree, see above LJP post, cause that’s more of what I am addressing rather than what a GJ does or how it works. Look how long it has taken us to find what we’ve learned in just the past couple of weeks. Sometimes, timing is everything.

        Like

        • myopiafree says:

          Hi Ottawa – I agree with Let-justice-Prevail. This is not a normal case. Since the lying Crump, with his henchman Julison, fed the National Media with false pictures of a cute 11 year-old boy – attacked by (presumed) KKK thug George – there was no choice of conducting a Grand Jury review. In fact, to achieve his desired goal, Crump played Corey’s arrogance like a “fiddle”, and got what he wanted. Now the “race-baiting liar” Crump is indeed exposed. Now there will be an immunity hearing for George Zimmerman. Further, DeeDee should be required to TESTIFY about her statements to Bernie – under oath, this time, and under threat of perjury – with serious penalties to DeeDee if she lies.

          Like

        • howie says:

          Juries love timelines. It is something they can understand and debate.

          Like

  32. I haven’t finished reading all of the comments yet, nut I need to put this down before I get sidetracked. Did anyone else notice that Crump made the statement that George asked “what are you doing around here?” before mentioning that Trayvon asked “Why are you following me for?” when DD said in the interview that Trayvon spoke first?

    Like

    • John Galt says:

      I noticed that Crump also left out “something hitting something” and “get off, get off”.

      If a witness actually heard Trayvon Martin saying “get off, get off” wouldn’t Crump mention that at every opportunity?

      Like

  33. david says:

    Trayvonites keep getting dumber and dumber. Useless petition queen Eric Jordan Garrett is now suggesting that Jordan Davi’s first ammendment rights were violated by Dunn asking the vehichle occupants to turn down their stereo

    Like

  34. david says:

    Could there be a positive correlation of criminals supporting a criminal? Freddy Leatherface is a disgraced lawyer, LLMPapa is a convicted felon, Trent state of the cabbage patch has an extensive arrest record for drugs, public indecency, and disorderly conduct that was recently posted………just saying…

    Like

  35. LoudaJew says:

    it’s not okay for someone to interview MOM and put up 12 year old pictures of Trayvon. I think MOM needs to make an agreement that if he speaks, only recent pics of Trayvon may be shown. it’s biased to show old baby pics. as Sundance mentioned before, George didn’t encounter the 12 year old Trayvon. he encountered the person in the 7/11 video. MOM needs to get firm with making that clear.

    Like

  36. murderbythebook says:

    Didn’t Crump also say he got involved in doing his own investigation which included DD when the Martins were told by SPD they were not going to be charging Zimmerman? I don’t remember anyone from SPD telling them that. It was headed for a GJ so how could anyone have told them that? Just curious if that is another lie from Crump.

    Like

    • James F says:

      I don’t know if Crump ever admitted that but his partner Natalie Jackson let it slip that it was actually a PI who discovered DeeDee.

      JUAN GONZALEZ: And you’ve had to hire your own investigators because of the terrible job that has been done so far by authorities in ascertaining the facts in this case?

      NATALIE JACKSON: Yes. And, you know, I don’t know if it’s a terrible job or just they thought it was inconsequential to do the job. You know, there’s—whether or not it was important to do or it was bungled, we don’t know. But we had to go out and investigate this case. We hired an investigator that got the phone records. And once we saw Trayvon’s phone record, because he was on the—he had his phone with him, and we saw that he was on the phone when this incident purportedly happened. We contacted the person he was on the phone with. It was a young girl. And she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon. And this is very extraordinary, because she and Trayvon—according to the phone records, there was a phone call at 7:12. The phone call lasted for four minutes. That would make it 7:16. According to police records, they were on the scene at 7:17, and Trayvon was dead. So, this young girl is a very important witness.

      Like

      • James F says:

        “We contacted the person he was on the phone with.” Not Tracy Martin, but “WE” called her.
        Hopefully O’Mara or West will ask her exactly who ‘WE’ is during Nasty Nat’s deposition.

        Like

      • howie says:

        A rift between Santa Crump and the Law Diva. This gets better and better. One or the other is logically…a liar.

        Like

      • John Galt says:

        “We” as in conspiracy.

        Like

      • Cupcake says:

        I find it interesting that in the Juan G. interview above Natalie said they hired an investigator who got the phone records that led to Dee Dee, yet Crump stated that Tracy, while looking at his cell phone bill “saw the last person that was on the phone with Trayvon and it was this witness, and he called me that night…” then said he told Tracy to call her and “HE DID THAT” (from In-Session interview) and that’s how they found Dee Dee. I believe Crump has given this same account of how they found Dee Dee before, implying that the SPD was inept because they “found” Dee Dee before the police did. These are two completely different stories, I mean not even in the same ballpark.

        Like

        • boricuafudd says:

          Crump statement as I understood it, implied that Tracy got a phone bill on the mail, but the printouts presented as ebidence by Crump where downloads or printouts from a computer screen.

          The interview with NatJack says that the last phone call was at 7:12, IIRC the first interview with DD, she stated that she lost the call at 7:12 and called him back at 7:15 when TM would not answer. I know the whole interview was practically unintelligible but that would contradict her statement of being on the phone with TM just as the confrontation began. Accordingly, 7:12 is seconds after GZ said he ran in the NEN call.

          Like

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            As I recall, Crump has given 2 different versions of his *own* story. In the original, Crump claimed that Tracy made this so-called *discovery* while he was “working with his account online, trying to figure out Trayvon’s password,” but in the second version said something to the effect that Tracy made his *discovery* “when he was reviewing his phone bill”. I personally believe that the change is intentional, rather than an accidental slip of the tongue. The purpose of this change is an attempt to “explain away” Tracy’s delaying tactics regarding his PIN, and blaming it on the billing cycle of T-Mobile. In fact, I suspect that the “DeeDee Plan” had already been developed, but could not be implemented until the Scheme Team could gather *intel*, namely whatever information they could glean during their meeting with the Sanford Mayor on 3/16, or from the people *inside* the SPD offices who were (apparently) already communicating with them.

            Like

        • murderbythebook says:

          They can’t get on the same page with their lies.

          Like

  37. david says:

    Apparently Trayvonites are unaware that blood spreads as it continues to flow from a wound. One of their latest moronic grievances is that the HD color photo does not reflect the 45% covered with blood described by paramedic O’rourke who arrived on scene a few minutes after the photo.

    Like

  38. anwtex says:

    ?

    Frances Robles
    @RoblesHerald

    With my 19-year tenure at the Miami Herald coming to a close, I’ve migrated my account to @FrancesRobles.

    https://twitter.com/RoblesHerald

    Like

  39. rumpole2 says:

    Time for a song?

    Like

  40. mung says:

    Cough, um, cough, so Freddy wants his people to be civil now. Why now? Is it because he is afraid of the civil suit that is headed his way?

    Like

    • rumpole2 says:

      Wouldn’t ya think several site owners would at least “CYA” and tell posters to tone it down?
      JQ made a lame attempt to hide from public scrutiny… but the record is still there. 162,000 posts in the main topic alone… and there is no sign of the owner herself, let alone her rabid puppies, having enough sense to be cautious.
      If I were her, I would be deleting a few members along with their posts. :D

      Like

  41. mcbain346 says:

    Geraldo talked about GZ tonight. He and his panel said there might be sanctions for the state’s withholding of exculpatory evidence. But they also went out of their way to make excuses for the state. Funny, I don’t remember anyone in the media making excuses for anything GZ was accused of. It’s as if they have to slowly break it to their viewers that GZ isn’t the bad guy everyone thought he was.

    I’ve seen this type of media behavior many times. When they find out their original opinion is dead wrong you never see an about face. It’s always a slow process of admitting a few things here and there…. saying things like this case isn’t as clear cut as we first thought.

    For Geraldo, I believe he always thought GZ was getting a raw deal but had to tone down his opinions because of the heat he took from his early hoodie comments. I have a feeling he isn’t going to worry about offending the anti GZ crowd as much anymore. He might even stop kissing Crump’s ass.

    Like

  42. I can’t imagine any lawyer not spending a great deal of time speaking with someone they would present as a star witness. Not going to happen. He talked to her extensively before he put her on the “stand” in public. He knew what she would say. No way he’d have made her interview public if he didn’t.

    Like

  43. jello333 says:

    Why are MOM & West worried about the original recording of Crump & Dee Dee? I don’t think it has anything to do with them wanting to show inconsistencies between that tape and Bernie’s later interview with her. I don’t think it has anything to do with them trying to get Crump’s tape disallowed as evidence. And, just in general, I don’t think it has anything to do with their defense of George…. at least not directly.

    No, the whole reason they want that recording is for OFFENSIVE purposes… they plan to use it (and many other things) to prove a conspiracy. In other words, it’s going to be used as evidence AGAINST Crump and others. Which is exactly why Crump is terrified to turn it over. You think he’s thinking, “I don’t wanna let them have this tape, because it could hurt the case against Zimmerman” ? NO… that’s not what he’s worried about. What he’s really thinking is, “I don’t wanna let them have this tape, because it could HELP them in a case AGAINST ME.”

    Like

  44. nameofthepen says:

    I assume both Tracy and Sabrina were well aware that Trayvon had become “a problem”.

    I assume we’ll eventually see what caused Trayvon to receive his two-week suspension. Perhaps we’ll even hear that he was sent to live with Tracy because Sabrina and/or Alicia simply could no longer even pretend they thought they could get him sorted out.

    AFAIK, Tracy, Sabrina, Alicia and Brandy all had jobs. AFAIK, none of them had any major run-ins with the law themselves. AFAIK, they were well-liked in their community.

    And, AFAIK, Tracy had made plans well in advance to attend the big Prince Hall Masons convention scheduled for that weekend.

    I can understand it if he made the (unfortunate) decision to keep his plans, and assumed that one night away wouldn’t be a problem. Perhaps he gave Trayvon firm instructions to be in before dark, stay out of trouble, watch Chad, keep the apartment clean, study his schoolwork while he was gone, or else! Who knows? I don’t.

    Tracy and Brandy come home, and the nightmare begins. Under the circumstances, it makes sense to me that Tracy called Juvie first, looking for Trayvon.

    What they never expected was to find him in the morgue. But, maybe it wasn’t a HUGE surprise, since this was a teen who already had gotten himself into some big trouble back home (which we don’t really know about for sure at this point).

    Through “several degrees of separation”, Tracy then somehow gets hooked up with the Crumpster.

    And, the nightmare begins.

    Who knows what kind of jive talk the Crumpster laid down on a couple of numb, shell-shocked parents? I do know that most brainwashing is “trauma-based”. Losing a child is pretty traumatic. No one is thinking very clearly at that time.

    Tracy and Sabrina were a couple of people numbed with grief and guilt. We all feel guilt when a loved one dies – for something or other, even if it’s not realistic. It’s just one of those quirks of human nature.

    Who knows what sort of twisted “The ends justify the means” jive talk Crumpster and NatJack laid on them during that time? Who knows if they themselves were not victims of Crump’s DeeDee hoax? I sure don’t.

    Pardon the cliché, but “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. I’m willing to grant Tracy and Sabrina the benefit of the doubt in the early days.

    Later, once the juggernaut was REALLY rolling…how’s anyone gonna jump off without getting crushed under the wheels? Only those who disappeared off stage early safely made it.

    Some of the brightest people in the world get sucked into cults. Later, if they’re lucky, they get back out. And they are able to see how those things can mentally enslave.

    For instance, one thing common to all cults is that the members are discouraged and/or insulated from seeing/hearing/reading any criticism of the cult. For another, cult members are constantly indoctrinated into the “us vs. them” meme; outsiders become evil, untrustworthy, dangerous. Yet one more is the “we are here to try to save the world/ the whales/ the planet/ the White race/ the Black race, blah, blah, blah.

    I would guess that Tracy and Sabrina were probably treated to some version of all of the above. Just IMHO.

    No, I’m not too interested in “blaming them”. To do that, I’d have to get the damned log out of my own eye first. :shock: ;)

    You do not wake up one morning a bad person. It happens by a thousand tiny surrenders of self-respect to self-interest. ~ Robert Brault

    Like

    • floridianne says:

      Love this quote. Never saw it before, but it is simple, true and profound. Self-interest….will be then end of America as we know it. An America full of “bad people” have spent 50 or 60 years taking us in this downward sprial and now we are perched on the cliff. No self-respecting person can vote self-interest, because to do so is to ignore what you can (and should) do for your country.

      Like

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