12-4 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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228 Responses to 12-4 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

    • James F says:

      onePERSONoneVOTE
      We The People
      410 Fans
      18 minutes ago ( 1:47 AM)
      To another fantasy poster….

      None of G.Z ‘s DNA was found on Treyvons
      Hands or body.

      Hmmm… Maybe none of Zimmerman’s DNA was found on ‘Treyvons’ hands or body because neither his hands or body, except his nail clippings, was ever tested for DNA?

      Martin’s fingernail clippings from his right hand contained his own blood, but no blood was detected in his left hand clippings.

      Zimmerman’s DNA was found on Trayvon’s shirt (me-8).

      No blood, not even Martin’s own blood, was found on the sleeves of Martin’s soaking wet, dank smelling sweatshirt (me-12). Maybe his sleeves were rolled up in preparation for his assault, or so saturated with water that it was impossible to obtain a decent sample for testing purposes.

      Like

      • Chip Bennett says:

        None of G.Z ‘s DNA was found on Treyvons
        Hands…

        An oft-repeated falsehood.

        Martin’s hands were not checked for DNA; rather, his fingernails were swabbed for DNA, and none found.

        And as an added bonus: that result supports ZImmerman’s self-defense claims. DNA evidence under fingernails is generally considered evidence of one defending oneself. So, the lack of ZImmerman’s DNA under Martin’s fingernails simply means that the State didn’t find evidence to support a claim that Martin was defending himself. No more; no less.

        Like

        • kathyca says:

          “Martin’s hands were not checked for DNA; rather, his fingernails were swabbed for DNA, and none found.”

          Ya know, I knew that but never really focused on it before. Isn’t dna under fingernails a classic sign of self-defense. So was the ME specifically checking to see if Trayvon was in the defensive position? And do the results not support the conclusion that he was not?

          Like

          • kathyca says:

            oh duh, Chip. I skipped your last paragraph. Should have known you’d have it covered. You da man!

            Like

          • Knuckledraggingwino says:

            Amen!

            Recall that Serino was the POC with the ME who described an account f the incident to the ME that was intended to prejudice the examination with the presumption that TM was the victim. This explains the ME’s failure to collect surface swabs from around the gun shot wound and tissue sample from the wound to check for gun shot residue that would have established that it was a Close or Contact range shooting. Ditto for the FDLE crime lab whonwere not allowed to take fingerprints from the phone or blood samples from his clothing until after DNA had decayed.

            Like

    • metrometeor says:

      ===================
      endlessbliss313
      95 Fans
      13 minutes ago ( 3:05 AM)
      so the moral we should take from this is what?

      that if you stalk a 17 yr old kid while carrying a gun he may defend himself before you shoot him to death?

      ok
      =================

      just how unhinged are these people.

      Like

      • metrometeor says:

        ————————————-
        TwinkiToes
        1298 Fans
        12 minutes ago ( 3:06 AM)
        Question:

        Why won’t any of these God-fearing, adamant, hugely-Zimmerman supproters employ George? Why leave him to beg at the side of the road? He should work for his money. Not scam it.
        ————————————–

        I mean, really?

        Like

  1. James F says:

    Why no Zimmerman blood/DNA on Martin’s hoodie sweatshirt sleeves?

    1. According to the discovery, Martin’s sweatshirt (me-12) was not checked out by FDLE for analysis until 3/26/2012. (page 42 of 284)

    2. FDLE reported the sweatshirt was damp and smelly.

    ?tw_i=248547869395652608&tw_e=details&tw_p=tweetembed

    3. This means the (presumably sealed) sweatshirt was damp for a whole month, providing the perfect growth environment for bacteria, as verified by the moldy smell.

    “Environmental factors, such as heat and humidity, can also accelerate the degradation of DNA. For example, wet or moist evidence that is packaged in plastic will provide a growthn environment for bacteria that can destrout DNA evidence.”

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/bc000657.pdf

    4. Only a partial DNA profile match* was obtained from one of 3 stains tested. This probably indicates the any DNA that was present was already broken down or in the process of breaking down due to improper handling/dampness.

    *(Other language in the conclusion indicates that 11 of the 13 DNA locations tested were used for the statistical calculation, thus the term ‘partial’ DNA profile.
    ‘Match’ can be a controversial term. The most important point is that a statistic also be offered to show the significance of the match. In this case, it is a little surprising that ‘match’ was used to describe a partial profile.

    http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/dna-testing-in-the-trayvon-martingeorge-zimmerman-case/)

    Exhibit ME-12: Hoodie jacket represented as being from Trayvon Benjamin Martin

    Stain A

    “gave chemical indications for the presence of blood”

    “A partial DNA profile was obtained from Exhibit ME-12 stain A.”

    “This partial DNA profile is consistent with originating from a male individual and matches the DNA profile from Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3).”

    Stain B

    “failed to give chemical indications for the presence of blood”

    No DNA results were reported.

    Stain C

    “gave chemical indications for the presence of blood”

    “No DNA results were obtained from Exhibit ME-12 stain C.”

    Swabbings from cuffs/lower sleeve (both sides)

    “failed to give chemical indications for the presence of blood”

    “No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) were obtained”

    Like

  2. doodahdaze says:

    I wonder if an affirmative defense will even be employed here. The state can’t prove the elements of the crime. Leave the burden on them.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      I think MOM/West could ask for dismissal whenever they want now… there are just other things they wanna do before getting to that point.

      Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        I think they are waiting for the state to drop it. They know the state will not be able to withstand formal discovery.

        Like

        • myopiafree says:

          Hi DooDah – You imply an interesting question. Can the STATE “drop it”?? Further, if they do, that leaves George in “Limbo” – which would be very bad for George. I would ask (anyone who knows) if the STATE “drops it”, and George request an “immunity hearing” so he gets full protection of the “Stand your ground” law? Thanks!

          Like

          • boutis says:

            Would not the defense move for a SYG hearing to protect Zimmerman and ask the judge to “compel” the state who started it to finish what they started? My understanding of SYG (which I admit is imperfect) was put in place to protect those who were forced to legally defend themselves against civil liability. Once the state of Florida charged Zimmerman they triggered the civil liability landslide and would have legal and moral responsibility to stop it . Therefore an order from a judge for a SYG hearing rather than dismissal. The prosecution could just admit SYG applies at the hearing and the judge would rule accordingly. This would be one way for the state to stop digging the hole and handing MOM and West the evidence for Zimmerman’s civil actions. BTW I don’t see this happening.

            Like

            • Chip Bennett says:

              Stand Your Ground does not in any way apply to Zimmerman’s case. In order for SYG to apply, the self-defendant must have the opportunity to flee.

              Zimmerman attempted to flee, but was prevented from doing so by Martin, who straddled him and repeatedly knocked him back to the ground whenever Zimmerman tried to get up.

              This case is and has always been a simple matter of self-defense, not Stand Your Ground.

              Also, there is no such thing as a “Stand Your Ground” hearing. Under Florida statutes, there is an immunity hearing, where the defendant must prove, with a preponderance of evidence, that the use of lethal force in self-defense was justified. SYG is but one means of statutory justification for the use of lethal force in self-defense.

              Like

              • myopiafree says:

                Thanks Chip – So if the STATE drops the case, the GZ can apply for IMMUNITY – as get protection from Crump who will certainly file a “civil action” against George Zimmerman. After all – that was the entire purpose of Crump to create this mayhem.

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Oh, I don’t think Crump is thinking about that any more. I think now he’d been more than thrilled to make a deal with George: “I won’t file suits against you, if you don’t file them against me. Deal?”

                  Like

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I think Crump is gonna ride this till the wheels fall off there is no way he’s gonna back down.

                    Like

                  • Why should he? It does not matter the outcome. He is just the next generation of Al Sharpton. This whole case is more of a “passing of the reins” from Al to Ben. It does not matter if they win or lose, its all about the game.

                    Like

              • boutis says:

                Thanks for the explanation.

                Like

              • jello333 says:

                “repeatedly knocked him back to the ground whenever Zimmerman tried to get up”

                I really like seeing it worded this way. For a few months now, you and I and a couple others have been doing this. I think it’s important, because early on (and sometimes even still now) we hear, “Trayvon kept picking up George’s head and slamming it repeatedly into the concrete,” when of course it’s very unlikely that’s exactly what happened. FAR more likely is what you said…. every time George tried to sit up, tried to GET AWAY, Trayvon would push him back down with enough force to cause his head to hit the ground again. So I’m sure in George’s mind it was like someone grabbing you by the sides of your head and just going to town, slamming it over and over into the ground.

                Anyway, we KNOW the anti-GZ crowd loves to mock the “head bashed repeatedly into the sidewalk” stuff. And so I feel it’s important that we clarify things a bit.

                Like

          • kathyca says:

            I haven’t gone back and re-read the statute, but I’ve been thinking about this question off and on for a while. My thinking is that since the immunity attaches upon arrest and the State obviously can’t “dismiss” George having been arrested, he would be entitled to an immunity hearing even if the State were to decide it did not want to prosecute the case any further. Just my sense, though. I have absolutely no authority for it.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              And I would also think that if it gets to an immunity hearing, and the state tries to just say, “We stipulate that Zimmerman acted in self defense” in order to just get it over with real quick…. I still think the defense would have a right to present their case. ALL their evidence, to put it all on the record. Sorta like when a defendant pleads guilty to one charge in order to have another one dropped. I’ve seen many times where the prosecution will STILL present the evidence they WOULD have used to try to convict on that 2nd, now-dropped, charge. I never liked that they were allowed to do that, but if it’s fair for the prosecution, it’s gotta be fair for the defense.

              Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              I recall reading somewhere that if the State dismisses the charge, immunity goes along with it but the defense must specifically ask for it.

              Like

            • Kathy, that makes sense. I’ll add that it probably would not be an automatic hearing, but triggered if a civil suit was filed against him.

              Like

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Kathy – It is good to have a good lawyer review this issue. I am certain that O’Mara and West will be prepared for this one. When it becomes clear that Corey-Bernie have no case (after all), then right BEFORE the “Immunity hearing”, where George must PROVE he was attacked by TM, the “State” will drop the charges – to prevent their bogus charges from being exposed. That is the issue I am concerned with – and West/O’mara should be prepared for it. There wise action would prevent this case from becoming, “CoreyFong”.

              Like

        • recoverydotgod says:

          As I remember, Don West left the public defenders office to help on this case. Maybe public defenders became a bit tired of “state surrogates” scheme of certain state prosecutors?

          Bondi, Corey and BDLR deserve the exposure Don West is giving them.

          Like

          • selfdefenseadvocate says:

            I have heard nothing about any political aspirations of West or O’Mara, but I am hoping Don West will run for Attorney General when her nibs Pam Bondi’s term is up. I seldom regret my actions, but I sure regret voting for Bobndi. West would sure get my vote, no matter what his political party (and I suspect he is a Democrat).

            Like

            • selfdefenseadvocate says:

              Please excuse my poor typing in previous post- If you can read it, that is what counts :)

              Like

              • recoverydotgod says:

                I’m not one to cast stones on typing skills. :)

                Don West would make a great AG. What an amazing defense advocate, though!

                Sundance has called O’Mara the “voice” from time to time. The musician and poet in me loved the Gentile case argument O’Mara gave related to the gag order the state wanted.

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  If West is as staunch a defender as he seems, I don’t think he’d wanna be attorney general. Because that position is basically a prosecutor, and public defenders who really have their hearts in it generally want NOTHING to do with the prosecution side of cases. Take Gerry Spence for example. Many years ago he agreed to take on the role of special prosecutor in a case where a friend of his had been murdered. He says that even though at the time he wanted to see the defendant fry, he now feels horrible for having played the part of prosecutor… even if only for a few days.

                  Like

            • John Galt says:

              “Don West will run for Attorney General”

              With BDLR and Corey reporting to him. Sweet. He might let BDLR start studying law after a couple of years in the photocopy room.

              Like

            • arkansasmimi says:

              If I remb correctly, West quit his job at the Federal Public Defenders office to work on this case. I remb it being Federal, where ever he worked.

              Like

          • jello333 says:

            Yeah, I’ve known a few public defenders. Most of them get burnt out, and just wind up going along with prosecutors, and don’t do a very good job for their clients. Most of them know it’s easier to just be buddy-buddy with the prosecutors. But there are a few, just a few, who do just the opposite: They get ANGRY at how stacked the deck is against them and their clients, and they really start to HATE everything about the prosecutors office. And those are the type who are just hoping and praying for the day they can take down a prosecutor (or cop) or two. I think Don West is that type.

            Like

  3. LetJusticePrevail says:

    For those interested, this is what the resident experts at HP are now saying about the newly released photo:

    kathrynne
    8 Fans Become a fan
    53 minutes ago ( 3:17 AM)
    This is what fotoforensics software revealed- that it was edited with GIMP photoediting…BUSTED!

    File
    File Type JPEG
    MIME Type image/jpeg
    Exif Byte Order Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
    Image Width 650
    Image Height 870
    Encoding Process Progressive DCT, Huffman coding
    Bits Per Sample 8
    Color Components 3
    Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling YCbCr4:4:4 (1 1)
    JFIF
    JFIF Version 1.01
    EXIF
    Make Apple
    Camera Model Name iPhone 4
    Orientation Horizontal (normal)
    X Resolution 72
    Y Resolution 72
    Resolution Unit inches
    Software GIMP 2.8.2
    Modify Date 2012:12:03 09:10:06
    Y Cb Cr Positioning Centered
    Exposure Time 1/15
    F Number 2.8
    Exposure Program Program AE
    ISO 160
    Exif Version 0221
    Date/Time Original 2012:02:26 19:31:00
    Create Date 2012:02:26 19:31:00
    Components Configuration Y, Cb, Cr, –
    Shutter Speed Value 1/15
    Aperture Value 2.8
    Brightness Value 1.45021059
    Metering Mode Multi-segment
    Focal Length 3.9 mm
    Subject Area 1295 967 699 696
    Flashpix Version 0100
    Color Space sRGB
    Exif Image Width 650
    Exif Image Height 870
    Sensing Method One-chip color area
    Exposure Mode Auto
    White Balance Auto
    Scene Capture Type Standard
    Sharpness Soft
    Compression JPEG (old-style)
    Thumbnail Offset 712
    Thumbnail Length 5314
    XMP
    Date Time 2012:02:26 19:31:00
    Date/Time Digitized 2012:02:26 19:31:00
    Flash Pix Version FlashPix Version 1.0
    Composite
    Aperture 2.8
    Flash No Flash
    Shutter Speed 1/15
    Thumbnail Image (Binary data 5314 bytes)
    Focal Length 3.9 mm
    Image Size 650×870
    Light Value 6.2

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    Do any photography buffs HERE have any assessment of this?

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Yeah, I’ll assess it. How old is Trayvon’s *cough* girlfriend?

      The principle of the photo being photoshopped is silly……. actually so far beyond absurd, the light from where absurd exists could never reach it.

      The prosecution is photoshopping pictures to intentionally diminish their own case? OK… got it. *headdesk*

      Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        It is a vast right wing conspiracy.

        Like

      • arkansasmimi says:

        Since this was DISCOVERY that was turned over TO THE DEF FROM THE STATE, AFTER the DEF had to repeatedly request for a digital copy of photo, IF IT WERE photoshopped up then that would fall upon the PROS giving the DEF a photoshopped piece of discovery, CORRECT? This is just plain stupid what people are saying really laughable since EVEN I understand that its Discovery from the STATE PROS! LMBO PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.

        Like

        • kadar says:

          See my post below.
          The picture that is in discovery is not “photoshopped”. It is in landscape.
          The one that everyone is using that is portrait was “photoshopped” to rotate for the webpage.

          Like

          • arkansasmimi says:

            Yes, I saw that earlier, lol but the iggits are saying the reason it is photoshopped is because of how it looks (as in blood, nose and so forth) thank you tho.

            Like

    • kadar says:

      The photo that that info came from was the rotated photo on gzlegal gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/67-george-zimmerman-photograph
      The one from discovery does not show the same info.
      184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/zimmerman_scene_photo.jpg

      Use this tool and put the discovery URL

      http://exifdata.com/

      (Removed the http from above links so the do not show. They are needed on the exifdata page)

      Original:
      Make
      Apple
      Model
      iPhone 4
      Aperture
      2.8
      Exposure Time
      1/15 (0.0666666666667 sec)
      Focal Length
      3.9 mm
      Flash
      Auto, Fired
      File Size
      1050 kB
      File Type
      JPEG
      MIME Type
      image/jpeg
      Image Width
      2592
      Image Height
      1936
      Encoding Process
      Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
      Bits Per Sample
      8
      Color Components
      3
      X Resolution
      72
      Y Resolution
      72
      Software
      5.0.1
      YCbCr Sub Sampling
      YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
      YCbCr Positioning
      Centered
      Exposure Program
      Program AE
      Date and Time (Original)
      2012:02:26 19:31:00
      Metering Mode
      Multi-segment
      Color Space
      sRGB
      Sensing Method
      One-chip color area
      Exposure Mode
      Auto
      White Balance
      Auto
      Scene Capture Type
      Standard
      Sharpness
      Soft
      F Number
      2.8
      ISO
      160
      Compression
      JPEG (old-style)
      Orientation
      Rotate 90 CW

      It was edited with GIMP to rotate for the webpage.

      Like

      • youwantthattoo says:

        Nice job Kadar

        Like

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        Thank-you, Kadar. Every other reply I received echoed my own thoughts about the absurdity of the entire idea but I lacked the technical expertise to challenge the person who originally posted it. I was not certain if the information (given) was a simple fraudulent manipulation of data by the OP, or if it was factual data with an erroneous interpretation of an innocent manipulation of the picture so that it could be published. I suspected the latter, since the date of the modification date was the same as the date of the publication, but could not prove it. What I really was hoping for was an “AHA” that would make the OP’s obfuscation obvious, and enable me to make a rebuttal that would expose (her) manipulation of the photo data, or a way to demonstrate how and why her erroneous conclusion was reached, and how it could be repeated. It seems that you have provided the latter. Thanks, again.

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Bwahahahaha!! Caught red-handed! MOM has ROTATED a picture before placing it on his website! 10 years? 20? NO sentence is long enough for what this man has done!

        Like

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Wow, those are lots of numbers. Does she have any clue what any of them mean?

      PROTIP: resizing and cropping images will exhibit evidence of an image being manipulated – but obviously, such changes aren’t relevant to a claim of “Photo-shopping”. Rather, you have to look at compression evidence (referred to as Error-Level Analysis or ELA, usually viewed as a “heatmap” of the actual image pixels, to show where the pixels of an image have been modified.

      Thanks for playing, though, kathrynne!

      Like

  4. James F says:

    The vigilante is still issuing threats and inciting violence against O’Mara.

    Like

  5. I’m sure I’m missing something simple here, but how does one go about receiving new comments for a post without having to actually make a post and checking “Notify me of follow-up comments via email”?

    Like

  6. diwataman says:

    Just an update on Trayvon’s phone, and yes, even the great DMan misses things, lolz, I’ve always considered this a group effort anyway as there’s just too much information for any one person, regardless, here’s what I updated on my blog piece about it, I can’t believe I missed this;

    It did not occur to me until today, upon reviewing the Oct 19 hearing again, but the judge granted a subpoena, at that date, for T-Mobile in Trayvon’s name in regards to O’Mara’s motion here, paragraph I.

    http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Motion%20For%20Order%20Issuing%20Subpoena%20Duces%20Tecum.pdf

    There are a couple of potential problems here. First is that the phone is in Tracy’s name, not Trayvon’s so I don’t know how that would affect anything at T-Mobile. The second thing is that if the phone is PIN or Password locked then this is the proper entity to subpena however if it is Pattern locked then the subpoena has to go to Google. If all went well though O’Mara may have, since Oct 19, already gained access to the internal memory of the phone.

    Like

    • boutis says:

      If the phone is in a family plan with multiple numbers and phones, even if paid for by a parent, be in the child or user name? It has been so long since I paid for a kid’s phone I don’t remember because when they finished school and went to work I stopped paying (for phones anyway).

      Like

  7. Is anyone able to record the segment with Robert?

    Like

    • rooferx says:

      This is funny. Threats being sent to this host since yesterday he says because they are having RZ jr. on, but not a single complaint about a convicted felon (M Tyson) being on later. LOL

      Like

  8. eastern2western says:

    I find the whole photoshopped accusation is just morons who are just delusional. In addition to the photo, zimmerman also has witnesses who saw him covered in blood. One strong witness is the emts who treated him that night and the report that they wrote. Hey, what about the officer who took the pic because he is going to be a witness too. If that is still not sufficient evidence to support zimmerman’s injuries, these morons need to keep up with their meds.

    Like

  9. Robles joined the nytimes?

    Like

  10. dalec911 says:

    I’ve been off reading articles from my daily Google search of George on sites like New York post and HuffPost. I like to read the comments, just to see what’s going on in the minds of the Trayvon supporters.

    Since the new color version of the photo of George was released, the conspiracy theories over there really crack me up. Everything from George banging his own face on the sidewalk to the kick of the high powered 9mm pistol that smacked him in the face to the Alien’s that made him do it. Only kidding about the Aliens. Someone over there even said the picture wasn’t taken the night of the shooting, because Georges hair was longer that night and it’s too short in the new picture. The police doctored it up. It gets my blood pressure all worked up, I want to yell at these people for being idiots!

    Then I come back to the Treehouse, where the intelligent people are. I feel my blood pressure dropping already! Back to lurking, thanks for listening.

    Like

  11. david says:

    Traybot photoshop fantasy is officially destroyed https://twitter.com/JeffWeinerOS/status/276054800305643520/photo/1

    Like

    • ftsk420 says:

      Anybody that has a photoshop program and has actually used it will tell you that pic isn’t photoshoped. My brother inlaw went to college and learned how to use the program and then taught me and I can tell the pic isn’t photoshoped. TM supporters are goona keep trying to spin it until something works it’s been going on since the start.

      Like

  12. New article from the Orlando Sentinel:

    ……The Orlando Sentinel has obtained the latest cache of evidence in the George Zimmerman murder case, including new details of Zimmerman’s interest in law enforcement and testimony alleging racism and sexism in the Sanford Police Department……

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-fbi-new-evidence-20121204,0,7609897.story

    Like

  13. froggielegs says:

    Looks like O’Mara wants to depose Investigator Erwin again. Apparently he was in the Investigative offices when Serino played the tape of the screams for Tracy Martin and heard Tracy say that was not his son screaming.

    http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/motion_to_take_additional_deposition.pdf

    Like

    • eastern2western says:

      now there are basically more than two witnesses for everything. There are two witnesses who saw tracy stating the screams are not from trayvon. There are three winesses who saw zimmerman was on the bottom. There are a dozen witnesses who saw zimmerman’s bruised and bloodied face after the shot. With all of these witnesses collected by the police to support zimmerman’s self defense case,the prosecution only has dd who was a grass whisperer and also trent sawyer who saw ghosts in grainy black and white videos.

      Like

      • froggielegs says:

        O’Mara also lays the smack down on BDLR’s failure to disclose exculpatory evidence.

        Like

        • myopiafree says:

          This is PROOF that BDLR is hiding evidence from the defense. BDLR is doing the same thing with the critical cell phone, with a dead battery – with no “mike” and ear-buds in pocket. There is NO WAY TM was talking to DeeDee in the last CRITICAL four minutes. DeeDee is a “con”.

          Like

      • John Galt says:

        “now there are basically more than two witnesses for everything”

        How convenient. At the immunity hearing, Z has the burden of proof by the preponderance of the evidence.

        Like

        • Chip Bennett says:

          At the immunity hearing, Z has the burden of proof by the preponderance of the evidence.

          That’s the thing: the prosecution has no evidence whatsoever.

          The color photo and the medical report are enough to prove that Zimmerman was assaulted. The eyewitness accounts are enough to prove that it was Martin who assaulted Zimmerman. The lack of any signs of injury to Martin (aside from the fatal gunshot wound) are enough to prove that the assault was one-sided.

          The State has… what, exactly?

          Like

  14. Wow, Leathermans site sure is entertaining. In the most recent post the poster therorizes that GZ had the injuries BEFORE he left his house and was looking for someone to kill and then blame them for these pre-existing injures.

    Just unreal.

    Like

    • eastern2western says:

      let me guess in this grand conspiracy in here. Taffe broke zimmerman’s nose, dragged his head against concrete and banged his head against the ground every day before zimmerman goes out for negro hunting. That night, he just happened to met trayvon and made a decision to follow him with a bleeding nose, banged up head and also a bad back because he was some kind of master ninja assasin. Jason Bourne needs to hire zimmerman as a body guard.

      Like

    • eastern2western says:

      George zimmerman must be some bad ass sob because he was still able profile, pursue and kill trayvon martin with a banged up head, bleeding nose and bad back. Those leather people do not make any sense when they try to put everthing together as a complete story.

      Like

      • rumpole2 says:

        The thing is….
        There no ONE STORY… there are many fantasy scenarios and they change and mingle on a whim it seems.
        There are as many versions of events, and even the people (and bird life) involved as there are neurotics “active” at JQ …… 944 at last count :D

        Like

  15. rooferx says:

    Another guy released and not charged…I thought this only happened when they kill minorities?

    http://www.twincitiesnewstalk.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=424116

    A 34-year-old man accused in the killing of a central Minnesota police officer has been released without charge.
    Authorities at the Stearns County jail confirm that Ryan Michael Larson was released shortly before noon Tuesday.
    Larson was arrested in connection with the fatal shooting of Tom Decker last Thursday in the small city of Cold Spring about 75 miles northwest of Minneapolis.
    The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and the Stearns County Sheriff’s Office say prosecutors have determined that they don’t have enough documented evidence to charge Larson at this time.
    The investigation is ongoing.
    Decker, a father of four, had been with the Cold Spring department for six years. His funeral will be held Wednesday in nearby Collegeville.

    Like

  16. david says:

    In FBI report witness 45 is 110% sure voice screaming for help is George Zimmerman http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_weyrauch_w45.pdf

    Like

  17. ftsk420 says:

    Anyone else seen this?

    https://www.trayvonmartin.com/

    Like

  18. david says:

    In regard to AC360 Marcia Clark is incorrect…we need to be able to believe the states version of events…burden of proof is on them

    Like

  19. jordan2222 says:

    Simple questions: Does a reliable sample of Martin’s DNA exist? Is it good enough that it could be compared to DNA found on crime victims in areas where Martin previously lived?

    I am thinking of unsolved crimes in which Martin might have been the assailant because I would be surprised if this was Martin’s first assault.

    Like

  20. eastern2western says:

    crump and park have destroid dd. with their ever shifting narrative, they have ignored the testimony from their key witness dd. at the beginning, they accused the whole police report was all a fabrication and the whole sanford police department and the da’s office was conspiring to sweep the murder of trayvon martin under the rugs. With the releasing of more supporting evindece of an injured zimmerman, they basically turned the cause of attack to zimmerman because he was pursueing trayvon with a gun and trayvon reacted defensly. However, the two civil lawyers made the ultimate mistake of forgetting the key witness dd’s testimony because she never mentioned one singular word about martin seeing zimmerman with a gun. During the dd testimony, she talked about the mail thang, rains and creepy white due, but she skipped the GUN which as the initiator for trayvon’s defense attack on zimmerman. With the new hd photo which the prosecution had been hiding for 9 months coming out, park and crump made the decision to admit the attack did occured but it was caused by trayvon seeing zimmerman with a gun. However, DD did not mentioned a thing about the gun in the initial testimony. In conclusion, she is basically destroid. Being the most critical piece of the prosecution’s case, the defense will examine every part of her story with microscopic percision and I hope dd will answer these questions which I listed.
    1) How did trayvon saw zimmerman as a creepy white dude when he had shown that he needed glasses to see?
    2) Assumming trayvon was attacked while talking to dd, then how come his ear phones were found in his pocket?
    3) How come trayvon did not said anything about a gun to dd and was talking to dd over the phone instead of calling the cops while a creepy white dude was following him with a gun?
    4) Did she left any voice mails when she called trayvon back and where are they?
    There are more to come, but I can not see this girl will ever survive such grilling. She, being an adult, which allows the defense to take off its handcuffs and grill her like an adult.

    Like

    • howie says:

      And the answer is….They are civil lawyers who skipped criminal law at school. They are trying from the start to frame Zimmerman so they can pursue the $$$$. The state collaborated with them for political reasons.

      Like

  21. Cyrano says:

    How many guys Travon’s age have girlfriends older than them? A few months maybe, but I can’t recall any from my high school days that were at least a grade ahead of the boy. That’s not to say it’s never done, and she might not have been his girlfriend, but it raises yet another red flag about Dee Dee. If Trump did, indeed, manufacture her, it might have been necessary to use a legal adult for the ruse. He probably hired her, and wouldn’t want to have to deal with someone’s parents.

    Like

  22. FBI Reports from the State’s 9th Supplemental Discovery

    Wolverines, please take a look at these and report back to Treehouse. Thx

    FBI REPORTS

    SA Weyrauch: W47

    SA Weyrauch: W45

    SA Dawson: W51

    SA Majeski: W46

    SA Oliver: Santiago

    SA Oliver: Singleton

    SA Oliver: W48

    SA Oliver: W49

    SA Oliver: Francis Taaffee

    SA Alexander: W50

    http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/69-fbi-reports-from-the-state-s-9th-supplemental-discovery

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Way back in March or April I remember Mr. Taffee giving an interview on HLN (I think it was Jane V Mitchell) and he mentioned the arrests and robberies. He asked if she wanted to know the names of those males who were caught and she didn’t allow him to say the names. I often wondered about that because, he seemed like he really wanted to say those names. That always sat in the back of my head and I wonder if they have any connections to anyone in this case.
      The last witness mentions Goldsboro and he is so right about people holding grudge. I have saved many articles referring to Goldsboro. Many of the major Goldsboro supporters have been involved with this case. Frances Oliver(Nat Jackson Mom), Velma Williams(she cried race from the beginning and is a Sanford commisioner), Turner Clayton jr. from the Naacp and the list goes on. They seem to latch on to anything and everything they can and try to make a race war out of it.

      Like

      • maggiemoowho says:

        Totally forgot the one thing that stood out the most in those interviews, the “empty baggies” used in the sale of pot. Where have we heard that before.

        Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      No way am I going to read everyone of these and report back to anyone. I will wait to see what you say. I trust your analysis. How is that? LOL.

      Geezh. I cannot keep up with all of threads as it is.

      Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        It doesn’t really take that long to go through it all. Some of the pages are short. I went through all of the discovery released on Click Orlando in a relatively short time. Nothing earth shaking really. Nothing against George. There still seems to be missing evidence.

        Like

        • jello333 says:

          I think the biggest disclosure might be that the prosecutors met with Dee Dee AGAIN in August… and that details of what happened in that meeting have NOT been turned over to MOM/West.

          Like

  23. diwataman says:

    There is a note in George’s phone that the OS mentioned that’s talked about in the FBI reports. George said in part “I have told you all everything that has transpired, do you really think I would omit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me?” Somehow it seems this line was misconstrued in the reports into it meaning that George was expressing that Singleton was in fact guiding him. Given that I do not know when this note was made I instantly recalled one of the early bogus narratives in this case. That a narcotics officer was sent instead of a homicide investigator and some nefarious goings ons with that. I’m willing to bet that is what George was talking about and not that he was actually being “guided” by Singleton.

    Like

  24. murderbythebook says:

    I’ve read them all. Nothing shows GZ to be a racist. They are all pretty good for GZ. There is sure nothing to show a civil rights violation. Is this all they have?

    Like

  25. arkansasmimi says:

    Frances Robles‏@FrancesRobles 5 min ago
    Rafael Hernandez, former chief of North Miami Beach Police appears to be on the list of candidates to lead the Sanford Police.

    Like

  26. arkansasmimi says:

    Looks like Matt G is going out of country :)
    Matt Gutman‏@mattgutmanABC 9 min ago
    Heading to Guatemala City to cover the John Mcafee saga. Anyone been there? Any recommendations?

    Like

  27. david says:

    The idiocy of LIMPapa never ends….his latest video failure suggests paramedic o’ rourke perjured himself because the new photos do not show 45% covered in blood.

    Like

  28. david says:

    It looks like the entire scheme team was present at Sybrina’s apartment for BDLR’s interview with dee dee

    Like

    • david says:

      Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        good find. It confirms the conspiracy. Everyone there knew BLDR was going to meet DeeDee #2 not the 16 year old version.

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        It also looks like “Dee Dee” wasn’t there to begin with, and sounds like they expected she would be. But then they went to find her at ???, but she wasn’t there. So they finally found her somewhere else and then brought her back to Sybrina’s. Maybe a little bit, “Oh god, I really do NOT wanna do this!” Hmm….

        Like

        • david says:

          From todays discovery: Report of 4/2 Interview by Agent Kenneth Moore: This is the day State’s attorney De La Rionda and Investigator T.C. O’Steen interviewed Trayvon Martin’s parents and Dee Dee at Trayvon’s mother’s apartment in Miami.
          Moore and another officer picked them up at the Miami airport at 12:30 p.m. (They were supposed to arrive at 10:45 am.) En route to Sybrina Fulton’s, De La Rionda explained to Moore they would be interviewing Trayvon’s parents and girlfriend at Sybrina Fulton’s apartment. Trayvon’s girlfriend “possibly” lived somewhere else. Another officer, Gaylon White, conducted surveillance of the area to make sure there was no media.

          The Martins’ 3 lawyers, Crump, Parks and Jackson were present.

          They interviewed Sybrina Fulton first, at 3:40 pm, and then Tracy Martin, who arrived at 4:30 pm. When Tracy’s interview wrapped up, they were ready for Dee Dee but they couldn’t find her. They drove to Broward County where they found her at 6:30 pm, and she went willingly with them to Sybrina Fulton’s residence for her interview. They then returned her to Broward and at 8:15, drove De la Rionda and Investigator O’Steen back to the airport to fly home.

          Like

          • david says:

            Yea thats not at all suspicious! LOL

            Like

          • diwataman says:

            Wow dude, at least link the source of your posts;

            http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/12/4/204045/932

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              Does Jeralyn know the truth about the 2 DeeDee’s?

              Like

              • jello333 says:

                I mentioned it a couple days ago over there, and 3 or 4 people said they didn’t think there was anything to the theory. One of them had the screen name “Talk Left”… so I don’t know if that was Jeralyn herself or not. But then after I posted my comment, there were several comments by various people saying how certain things about Dee Dee and the statements and stuff didn’t make sense. I never commented again, but I was thinking to myself, “Well of course it doesn’t make sense if there’s only one girl. But if there are MORE than one, well…” I don’t know what they’ve been saying about it since then, but I think, I THINK they may eventually be more open to talking about the multiple-DeeDee theory.

                Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          I recall reading that DeeDee later went up to Jacksonville but do not know of any details

          Like

      • maggiemoowho says:

        Surveillance to make sure there wasn’t any media in the area, a bit overboard I think. I guess they had a lot to hide. Maybe DeDe is a male.

        Like

      • James F says:

        What minor? Trayvon’s name is not redacted. Did Crump tell FDLE that DeeDee was a minor?

        “The information in this report contains information about a JUVENILE that may be privileged or confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law”

        Like

    • jello333 says:

      And I thought depositions (is that even what that was considered?) were taken at courthouses, or at least at a lawyer’s office or something. “Hey, we’ll just meet in your living room, Sybrina.” HUH?!

      Like

      • MJW says:

        They were actually witness interviews, not depositions. In a deposition, BDLR could never get away with leading a friendly witness the way he did DeeDee.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          Has the State actually deposed anyone?

          Like

          • MJW says:

            I don’t know for sure, but I haven’t heard that they have, and no deposition notices have shown up on the court website or GZLegalCase. I believe depositions are pretty much reserved for the other side’s witnesses.

            Like

          • jello333 says:

            Ok, here’s something I hadn’t really noticed in the last motion filed by West:

            “Since the interview in April, Witness 8 has traveled on at least one occasion from South Florida to Jacksonville to meet with prosecutors. While no further reports or recorded interviews of those meetings have been provided in discovery as of this date…”

            Which we had no idea what that referred to, till now. Info from the FDLE files just released (this is Jeralyn speaking):

            “On August 2, 2012, Moore and White picked up a witness (my assumption: Dee Dee) in Northwest Miami Dade and drove her to the Ft. Lauderdale airport where she flew to Jacksonville to meet with the State’s Attorney.

            On August 3, 2012, Moore and White picked up the witness at the Fort Lauderdale airport upon her arrival from Jacksonville and drove her to a home in Northwest Miami Dade.”

            And, as usual, Bernie/Corey are hiding evidence: “no further reports or recorded interviews of those meetings have been provided in discovery as of this date”

            Wow (I’m gonna also post this in the new GZ thread, so it won’t get missed)

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              I made a post about it previously but no one replied. I think it is significant and again, we have zero about what happened in Jacksonville. That was more than 15 days ago. LOL

              Like

              • jello333 says:

                Sorry, I must have missed your earlier post, otherwise I would have commented. And yeah, I think this is very significant (about what happened in the meeting, and the fact that MOM/West haven’t been told about it).

                Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi David – This is truly prosecutor malfeasance. DeeDee is 18. There is every reason, why she should have gone to a law office – where her statement could have been recorded – and taken under oath. This habit of Bernie’s to “crawl into bed” with Scheme-Crump, to create a false “story” so Corey could file a “hyped up” charge of 2nd degree – is the worst performance of a (supposed honest) judicial system – I have ever seen.

      Like

  29. david says:

    Hope they are not saying the ping logs do not exist: On April 20, they got a search warrant for T-mobile to provide call detail records and location data for a phone. On May 3, T-Mobile responded it had none for the time period requested. This seems to me to also be for Trayvon’s phone.

    Like

    • david says:

      On May 1, they got a court order for Google to provide them with the stored data in Trayvon Martin’s Google account and password access to it. On May 14, they got a court order directing T-Mobile to reactivate voice and data service to the account. Affidavits were filed for both orders. No results were obtained from either company. Which seems to me to indicate they still don’t have any stored text messages, photos or videos from Travyon’s phone. See Diwataman for more on the difficulties with accessing data on Trayvon’s phone.

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        What in the hell does that mean “no results were obtained”? Does that just mean Google didn’t give them Trayvon’s G-Mail Sign In and Password? Because that’s what they need so apparently the phone is pattern locked after all since they went to Google.

        Like

        • diwataman says:

          okay, wait a minute. Is that for Trayvons phone? I don’t think it is. Why would they redact his name from the report?

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            What’s strange as well is that in the redaction there are parentheses in there. What would those be for?

            Like

            • MJW says:

              I think, based on the length of the redaction and the parentheses, that the second redaction is also the phone number. I guess the Google g-mail account is associated with the number.

              Like

              • diwataman says:

                Very good yes. That seems odd to me that they would ask for it by phone number. Why didn’t they ask for an account in his name? They need his Sign In name and Password. Is this too hard for them?

                Like

          • kathyca says:

            Maybe that is why the more recent request in for the phone in Trayvon’s name (paraphrasing). When I read that I thought it was worded that way for a particular reason.

            Like

            • diwataman says:

              Yeah, that’s all I need is more games with this damn phone. They probably actually got in and wiped it. But I guess that’s just too conspiratorial and makes me look nuts. I mean after all these are LEO’s right? They got to be honest people, clearly.

              Like

              • kathyca says:

                I don’t know enough about the whole phone situation to speculate — even though I’ve been trying to follow the discussion closely :/ What I do know, though, is how discovery requests and subpoenas are drafted. Imo, if phone information was requested specifically using words to the effect of “a phone in Trayvon’s name” it’s because the drafter feels that they don’t have information about “a phone in Trayvon’s name” already — including information that there IS no information. So, they’re either trying to confirm that there is no other phone OR think that there is another phone “in Trayvon’s name” for which no information has been provided.

                Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  kathyca

                  If the state puts DeeDee into a witness protection program, would that prohibit them from revealing her address?

                  Like

                • diwataman says:

                  Is there some issue with the state not providing us with the subpoenas? Now that I think about it I can’t say how they truly asked for his info from Google without that subpoena. They are too vague in the reports. I don’t even know if it was for the phone found at the scene.

                  Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          waltherppk

          Where are you?

          Like

  30. rooferx says:

    Here it is again. GZ deserved his beating for getting out of his truck. I guess we should just all hide when we see something suspicious.

    Like

    • eastern2western says:

      according to his logic, no body should ever get out of their cars because exiting their cars justifies beating.

      Like

      • rooferx says:

        Ya, I don’t understand that. TM is justified in using deadly force just because GZ got out of his truck, but GZ is not justified to use deadly force when TM pummels and beats him nonstop. The logic is really loopy and very desperate.

        Like

        • eastern2western says:

          Basically, the next explaination I am going to hear is it is all zimmerman’s fault because his face did not get out of the way when martin was punching his fist towards zimmerman’s face.

          Like

        • jello333 says:

          And their logic is also RACIST. I really think that has a LOT to do with this whole thing. There was no racism on George’s part. There may or may not have been some racism on Trayvon’s part. But as for the GZ-haters?…. there most definitely IS racism there… a LOT of it.

          Like

      • ytz4mee says:

        That was the template in Norfolk, VA as well.

        Like

    • rumpole2 says:

      The guy is happy because Trayvon won the fight :D

      It is ludicrous to keep saying “things would have been different if only George had not gotten out of he truck.”… of course they would… different again if GZ had stayed home that night, or TM had stayed home.. etc.

      LIFE does not have an “Erase and rewind” button….

      The slaughter in the Colorado movie theatre would not have happened… if only EVERYBODY had stayed in their cars.. and not gone into the theatre where they were attacked…in the same way that GZ got out of his car and was then attacked. The people going to the Batman movie could not have known they would be attacked… and neither did George. It is just as nuts to say George is to blame because he got out of his truck as it is to suggest the movie goers only have themselves to blame for being gunned down.

      Like

  31. James F says:

    Hypocrisy much?

    Her mentor and partner in crime:
    “In court, you have the jury,” Crump says. “Our job is to get the case to a jury. We need to fight first in the court of public opinion. The jury is the American people.”

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/attorneys-use-bootcamp-playbook-to-press-trayvon-martin-case/1221545

    Like

  32. MJW says:

    TaklLeft has a new posting on the discovery documents with links to the documents.

    Like

  33. eastern2western says:


    Here is my magical head phone question. According to dd, trayvon was speaking to her until he was attacked by a crazy old white dude. By reason of deduction, his dropped during his attack which should be found out side of his clothes on the lawn. However, the evidence discovery list has stated multiple times the head phones were found in trayvon’s pockets.

    Like

    • waltherppk says:

      Must have been a gravitational anomaly or a strange wind gust that would account for the strange trajectory of those falling headphones to end up neatly in a pocket …..like catching a flyball in a baseball cap while doing a backwards somersault …..happens every day huh.

      Like

  34. jordan2222 says:

    Sorry that I cannot remember where I saw this but I know I read that the State does not have to disclose all “discovery” unless it is exculpatory. Is that true?

    Like

    • waltherppk says:

      No it is not true. In order to prepare a defense it is necessary to know also what is the inculpatory evidence. Such evidence may also be subject to challenge or authentication WRT admissibility or motion in limine or could have bearing on bond or require further investigation in depositions or other investigation. Discovery requires all the cards be put on the table and promptly within 15 days of such information or evidence being received. Further IMO …but acknowledging IANAL ….

      If a legal presumption of innocence exists for the accused then necessarily and logically there is also a legal presumption that the accusers are liars and that is a legal presumption which necessarily must be rebutted by the accusers presenting some actual evidence that their accusations are not lies but truth….in order to set aside the legal presumption that the accusers are liars. Certainly rules of discovery are law and are meant to have the force and effect of law since rules of the court are even held to be higher law than statutes which certainly have force and effect. The purpose of reciprocal discovery is that all the cards are on the table and the discovery rules are intended to ensure due process which already exists before trial, and even before an arrest, and certainly when an immunity hearing should be held to prevent malicious prosecution and to protect against liability any person who has lawfully used deadly force in bona fide self defense …OR in a case where evidence is insufficient for probable cause to dispute such a claim of self defense. Trifling with discovery rules and concealing material evidence is a good indicator that no solid case exists for the prosecution, so gamesmanship is taking place involving delays and excuses for not turning over all material evidence and information PROMPTLY as the law requires within 15 days …not 6 months later when the State gets good and ready. Such delays violate the constitutional right of an accused to a speedy and fair and impartial due process, and when the State is playing dirty and not following the rules generally what that means by inference is the entire case is a fraud and a malicious prosecution. If the totality of facts and evidence worked in the favor of the State certainly the State would be “showing all its cards” early and saying “beat that” (we got you cold). When the State makes a game of hide and seek and is trying to hinder the defense it is because the case is weak and the State does not want the truth known just how weak its case is ….so the State cheats by denying the level playing field which the rules and law requires due process to be, and by doing so the State commits a federal crime which is a civil rights violation of the accused. There is no ethical nor lawful excuse for discovery violations as have already occurred in this case and any judge who facilitates those discovery violations is a de facto participant in a criminal conspiracy to violate the due process rights of the accused.

      When the judge has evidence of discovery delays and does not effect remedy it shows bias and prejudices process in a way which makes any future adverse consequences to the accused subject to appeal. And if the due process is being outrageously enough subverted to the point of it being fundamental error involving evidence rules ANY court of higher jurisidiction can intervene at any point such evidence of prejudice can be shown, to provide whatever relief is necessary in any criminal or civil action to correct that fundamental error which prevents a fair and impartial due process. That authority is provided by the evidence code itself. Brady violations involving bad faith are subject to extraordinary remedy including dismissing with prejudice the entire case. It is not a trifling matter at all that so many delays involving disclosure of exculpatory or otherwise material evidence has occurred. It suggests fraud and indicates bad faith by the party responsible for the delayed disclosure or suppression of information or evidence. It is a travesty of justice when so numerous discovery violations are involved.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Thanks Walther. I said just a few days ago that Judge Nelson should act ON HER OWN, without being prompted by MOM and West. Now that she’s been brought up to speed on exactly how bad the prosecution has been acting, it should take no further actions on the part of the defense. I really, really hope Nelson has enough self-respect to come into court during this next hearing and just LAY INTO Bernie, Crump, Jackson, and anyone else who deserves it.

        But WILL she?

        Like

        • waltherppk says:

          She definitely has the authority to order compliance with discovery rules and there could be no basis for appeal later if she simply upholds the law in her courtroom and tells the state in no uncertain terms to produce the evidence being sought by the defense, which has been identified with specificity and is clearly relevant. Actually discovery provides wide latitude for what qualifies for being lawfully discoverable and even what is not itself clearly relevant information which is reasonably expected may lead to discovery of relevant information is allowable to be obtained. Generally attorneys do not waste time and money on wild goose chase kinds of fishing expeditions, and they have some idea what it is they are ultimately going to discover even by a circuitous route ….so discovery allows for a fairly broad investigation. Pam Bondi had publicly promised that no stone would be left unturned in the investigation, but clearly there has been a conspicuous lack of cooperation in disclosure of all the details of what that broad investigation has produced in the way of discoverable information. It is reasonable then to conclude that the State tends to be embarrassed by the totality of the facts and information which it found and this is reflected by the incomplete and untimely sharing of that information with the defense. Florida must not be real happy with its prospects of being successful in the lawful and ethical prosecution of George Zimmerman, so has chosen to continue such prosecution according to a lesser than lawful and ethical method, in seeking a desired end that justifies the means. That is like putting up a billboard declaring that the State has no case that the State can win doing things by the book, so the State means to win by throwing the book out the window……justice be damned….it is politics that govern.

          Like

          • I’ve always felt that the state hadn’t even looked at all the evidence before charging George. Corey was assigned on March 22 and George was charged on April 11. That’s not a lot of time to look at everything. And IIRC the state had to go and get the color/digital copies of the pictures because all they had were the black and white ones they gave defense (or so they said IIRC). They also couldn’t have listened to the Crump Dee Dee interview because they only had the inaudible copy of it (or so they say).

            Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        Wow.. that is an in depth analysis so my next obvious question is why has Nelson not stopped this madness of the state withholding evidence? What you are saying is that she is a party to a conspiracy. There exists already grounds for appeal but if I understand other legal blogs I have read, no appeal can be made unless there is a conviction. That”s just crazy.

        “If a legal presumption of innocence exists for the accused then necessarily and logically there is also a legal presumption that the accusers are liars and that is a legal presumption which necessarily must be rebutted by the accusers presenting some actual evidence that their accusations are not lies”

        I have never heard anyone use your terminology before about the state being assumed to be liars. That is beautiful.

        Like

        • waltherppk says:

          It is a logical contradiction to view it any other way if you think about it. You can’t have it both ways simultaneously. If a legal presumption of innocence exists for the accused, then what does that then neccesarily make the oppositional presumption about the accusers ? You got it, it is the accusers who must prove they are not the liars. The accused does not technically or legally have to prove anything at all to qualify for being found not guilty. The entire burden of proof resides with the accusers.

          Like

    • MJW says:

      The state is required under the Constitution to turn over exculpatory (“Brady”) material. Under Florida law, they’re required to turn over almost everything, as long as the defense enters into a reciprocal discovery agreement, which it has.

      Like

      • waltherppk says:

        Florida has some of the most stringent discovery rules in the world, basically an all the cards on the table type of discovery is required by law, but is frequently violated by whom …you guessed it by the State not following its own law. Florida screws people with reckless abandon and a showcase example of that is this case against George Zimmerman. Florida has that attitude “we are the law so we will tell you what the law is when we want you to know it” and prosecutors work that wrong attitude to death because they so often get away with it, they become emboldened to believe that proposition has no exceptions…..you know the “Nifong Syndrome” of highminded stupidity. Classic “if you don’t like it do something about it” attitude of hubris. Ultimately it leads to a reckoning with someone who actually will do something about it, just like happened for Nifong.

        http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Training/2008%20New%20Felony%20Defender%20Training/BradyHandout.pdf

        Like

  35. MJW says:

    I’m quite curious about the redactions in the document that describes locating DeeDee for her interview. Where was DeeDee found? “The ——– of Broward County”?

    Like

    • Why not call her? Didn’t she have a phone? No mention of even trying to call…just ‘locate’.

      Like

    • MJW says:

      Is it perhaps related to the state’s refusal to give her address to the defense?

      Like

      • Well, at that point did State even know her address or was Crump providing/arranging access to her? Maybe he didn’t want her to be ‘located’ or she didn’t want to be located. Surely she was told about interview before hand and where it would be.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          The interview did not take place at DeeDee’s home so who know where she lives?

          Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          Why did they have to go look for her

          Like

          • Maybe she’s homeless and they had to check out the locations she normally hangs out at. It would also explain why BDLR is reluctant to give an address: He can’t. I’m joking. Mostly. Hell, maybe she really is a crack ho. Dee Dee is nothing if not a mystery.

            Like

            • howie says:

              I wonder about the mystery of her hospitalization. She stated it was because she could not Pee. The Schemers said it was High Blood Pressure. Not being able to Pee can be a side effect of heavy drug use, or a mental disorder.

              Like

              • I must have missed that. When did she say that?

                Like

                • James F says:

                  Crump’s phone interview of DeeDee. This is from an attempted transcript.

                  Crump: Say it in your words and say it loud and slow.

                  DeeDee: I was in shock. I was really in shock. 12:46 (Unintelligible) 13:00 I couldn’t pee, that’s it.

                  Crump: And why couldn’t you go to his wake?

                  DeeDee: Because I was sick. (Unintelligible)

                  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iHSrnGPs4Qptsla_EMMR-NdhioDTHQAtAExH1OgackU/edit?pli=1

                  Like

                  • If that’s even close to accurate it’s no wonder Crump doesn’t want anyone to have a clear copy.

                    Like

                  • By that I mean the entire transcript.

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                  • howie says:

                    Severe cases of this disorder can have highly restricting effects on a person’s life. In moderate to severe cases, overcoming paruresis can be extremely difficult without the help of a psychologist, therapist or support groups. Severe sufferers may not be willing to travel far from their home or be able to form intimate relationships. Others cannot urinate even in their own home if someone else can be heard to be there.
                    Some drugs can cause difficulty in urination; MDMA, amphetamines and opiates such as heroin, hydrocodone, or synthetic opioids such as methadone in particular. It varies in severity and from person to person, but many users and abusers of these substances find themselves suffering from paruresis. Partly this is a physical side effect of these substances, but it is often seemingly a psychological symptom, directly related with “shyness”, etc., like paruresis. While drugs such as heroin can make it more or less impossible to urinate, the effect can vary, and very often has a direct resemblance to “ordinary” paruresis, i.e. the user may find it impossible to urinate at all, or he/she may only be able to urinate when alone.

                    Like

          • Come to think of it maybe that’s part of the reason the defense pushed for her address. They wanted to make BDLR sweat about who and/or what she actually is by putting him on the spot.

            Like

          • James F says:

            Maybe she was about to knock, saw a roomful of high powered lawyers, got frightened and took off?

            Who wouldn’t be intimidated by a roomful of lawyers, reporters and the parents of the victim that you feel guilty about for some reason?

            Who would dare say anything even mildly incriminating about Trayvon in the face of such a crowd?

            Like

    • ejarra says:

      The words “northwest region” fits nicely.

      Like

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