Why Did Trayvon Martin’s Funeral Director Lie ? More Lies and Agendas Exposed…

While we are still waiting for the toxicology reports, lets discuss….


WFTV report shows some aspects of the autopsy performed on Trayvon Martin. FULL AUTOPSY REPORT HERE – The autopsy revealed bruising and cuts to the hands of Trayvon Martin consistent with the statements and accounts of George Zimmerman.   The autopsy also revealed that Trayvon had THC in his blood and urine consistent with marijuana use.

In addition the autopsy report revealed moderate beginning signs of brain damage, and mild liver damage associated with prolonged use of DXM or in street lingo “Lean “ in an otherwise healthy young man.  2006 ABC NEWS - It’s more than a drug; it’s a culture. It’s what’s known on the street as “Lean,” a highly addictive cocktail of cough syrup, Juice or soda, and candy (see Watermelon Juice, Skittles, Robitussin) so potent it makes you “lean” over when high.

We have previously outlined extensive research into Trayvon’s well known drug use as discussed with his peers, and the well documented social converstions with his friends about his drug lifestyle.  These are not subject to interpretation.   They are factual and truthful.

In addition, it should also be noted this is the same autopsy Trayvon Family Attorney Benjamin Crump filed previous court orders (March 6th-7th) to keep out of public review.  Crump filed filed injunctions to seal school records, attendance records, disciplinary records, and law enforcement contact records as well as the autopsy.

We have outlined the lies, falsehoods and specific manipulations by various parties associated with the false narrative. For this update, against the backdrop of the autopsy discovery, we will revisit the lies by Trayvon Family Funeral Director Richard Kurtz, and show the agenda driven intent.

SANFORD, Fla. — WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman’s claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn’t comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it’s better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman’s bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

“It goes along with Zimmerman’s story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.

The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman’s story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk. (read more)

This is important because Funeral Director Richard Kurtz specifically and intentionally injected himself into the Scheme Team narrative as an advocate by providing them support, and cover, with his declaration that Trayvon’s body showed no visible signs of a scuffle.

These guys like Richard Kurtz are all providing media fuel, and cover, for the initial Benjamin Crump and Natalie Jackson created storyline. And when I say created, I do indeed mean created; as in intentionally false, intentionally misleading, and totally made-up.


The media is failing miserably is in showing honestly how they are connected to each other. These are not just random disconnected participants in the narrative, they are all specifically connected and colluding to sell the public, via the media, a very specific constructed story. It is beyond frustrating that the media is refusing to sniff this out.

Back to Richard Kurtz - MIAMI (CBS4) – The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin’s body for the memorial service is challenging George Zimmerman’s story that the Martin and Zimmerman got in an intense physical fight before Zimmerman shot and killed the 17-year-old:

In dressing the body we could see no physical signs he had been in a fight or a scuffle. That is something we would have had to cover up had it been there,” said Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale. (article )

But Richard Kurtz is no random disconnected Funeral Director without a vested interest, or agenda, in the outcome of the case. To really understand we have to look at his history.

1985 Sun Sentinel - Sitting in the quiet office of his funeral home, Richard Kurtz talked about the new black battlefront: economics.

Unfortunately for Kurtz, the fight for minority enterprise and job opportunities is not the stuff of front-page headlines. And thus, his decade of leadership as president of the Broward County chapter of the NAACP has given him only scattered yellow clippings to mark his successes. When Kurtz took the helm in December 1974 at age 23, he was the youngest president of an NAACP branch. His tenure in office was the longest in Broward County history.

Some have claimed Kurtz has not been vocal or active enough in protesting lingering discrimination. One of those critics is Eula Johnson, who headed the Fort Lauderdale branch of the NAACP from 1958 to 1964.

“It is better (now), but it’s not good enough,” she said. “We need more of the wealth, more of equal opportunity to share the good life that America has to offer.” (more)

1986 FORT LAUDERDALE — Richard Kurtz, a longtime black activist, announced to NAACP officials Thursday his plans to run for state Sen. Tom McPherson`s seat in November. Angered that McPherson, D-Fort Lauderdale, dropped his controversial annexation plan, the NAACP has vowed to push for McPherson`s defeat and replace him with a black candidate. (more)

2001Following the Bush V Gore Election fiasco in Florida - They [black activists] said George W. Bush is the wrong man to be inaugurated this weekend, and they blamed his brother Gov. Jeb Bush.

“In 2002 we’re going to get rid of that Bush in Tallahassee and in 2004 we’re going to get rid of that Bush in Washington, D.C.,” Richard Kurtz, president of the Broward County Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Committee, roared to the crowd. “Then we’ll be free at last!”

Rep. Chris Smith, D-Fort Lauderdale (*note remember this name), appointed by the governor to an election-reform task force, announced that public testimony regarding voting irregularities would be taken Feb. 1 at Nova Southeastern University in Davie. (read more)

2005 – Chris Smith: “The problem with term limits is I’m at the apex of influence and knowledge of Tallahassee and I have nowhere to go. I love District 93. I love representing Lauderdale Manors and Dora River Bend and the central Fort Lauderdale area.”

The district’s residents, a mix of poor and working-class people in northwest Fort Lauderdale and unincorporated Central Broward, think highly of their home-grown representative. Smith credits the NAACP Youth Council with grooming him for politics. Smith joined the NAACP as a youth member when Richard Kurtz was president.

“I never thought then that Chris would become what he is today,” Kurtz said. “Then, he was a very quiet person. He didn’t talk a lot.” Smith attended conventions and programs during which the NAACP leadership would present its ideas and issues to the governor. (read more)


So who took point in leading the Florida Task Force for Removal of the Stand Your Ground Law?…… Yep, State Senator CHRIS SMITH, the same Chris Smith who fought against the Stand Your Ground law in 2005 and was a severe critic of its passage. The same Chris Smith who was mentored in the youth movement of the Broward County NAACP by then President Richard Kurtz.

The same Richard Kurtz, Funeral Director, who handled Trayvon Martin’s body and who specifically sewed the seeds of deception and storyline selling for Team Trayvon with the above referenced article and with numerous TV appearances.

NANCY GRACE: OK. I got the tail end of that but I think, I think I got the gist of it. All right. Let me go to Richard Kurtz , he is the funeral director that handled Trayvon Martin’s body. Joining us exclusively tonight.

Mr. Kurtz , thank you for being with us.

NANCY GRACE: Mr. Kurtz , you handled Trayvon’s body. Now I know an autopsy had been performed but did you see any bruising or cutting on his knuckles or hands?

RICHARD KURTZ : Well, first of all, when I received the body, it was (INAUDIBLE), I noticed the gunshot wound, but as far as his hands and knuckles, I didn’t see any evidence that he had been fighting anybody.

NANCY GRACE: OK. So you did not see — and I want you to tell me, not me to tell you, tell me you did not see cuts or bruises on his knuckles or hands.

RICHARD KURTZ : No, I did not.

NANCY GRACE: You did see the gunshot wound. Can you tell me where on his chest was the wound if you could tell after autopsy?

RICHARD KURTZ : Well, it appeared to me that it was in the upper chest area. That’s where the (INAUDIBLE).

NANCY GRACE: Did you see any other injuries on Trayvon Martin’s body?

RICHARD KURTZ : Not that I could tell.


NANCY GRACE: Richard Kurtz , joining us, funeral director who handled Martin’s body.

Mr. Kurtz , what’s the name of your funeral home?

RICHARD KURTZ : Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home, Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

NANCY GRACE: Roy Mizell Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale.

Mr. Kurtz , did anything else stand out to you that I have not mentioned regarding his body?

RICHARD KURTZ : Well, no. It’s just the sight that you know, that the pain I went through as the embalmer of the body when I saw it was a kid and we didn’t know all the circumstances. And when I knew it was a gunshot wound. And then, you know, my question what happened why and as the, you know, news developed, but then, you know, it was starting to clear that, you know, I might say that, you know, I’ve been involved in a lot of (INAUDIBLE) in my life (INAUDIBLE) and homicides and these kinds of things.

But I’ve never witnessed one from day — from the moment that it happened I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I’ve ever witnessed in my life.

Is this beginning to make sense to you now?

You don’t need to ask me what geographic areas State Senator Chris Smith covers do you? Why, Broward and Palm Beach counties of course

Chris Smith talks with CNN about Stand Your Ground…

Chris Smith gives another interview with CNN about Stand Your Ground …

State Sen. Chris Smith (D-FL) on creating a task force to review Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law.

But what is it about “Stand Your Ground”, or “Non Retreat”, they dislike?

The main consideration for the anti-Stand Your Ground crew has never really focused on the physical aspect of the shooting or self-defense. Indeed I doubt the actual construct of the SYG law is what “some” take issue with.

It has nothing to do with people defending themselves per se’, it has everything to do with people being “immune from civil liability” and protected under the law against lawsuits.

From the outset it has been, and continues to be, obvious that “specific parties with a vested interest” are against SYG not because of the immunity from criminal prosecution, but because the same legislative construct provides immunity from civil lawsuit.

It would appear this aspect is below the visible radar for most followers of the case. Stand Your Ground not only protects the charged from criminal prosecution, but it also protects specifically from civil lawsuits when applied.

…….. a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

When you look up the immunity itself within the “non-retreat”, or Stand Your Ground you find:

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force….


While they may not openly state this is the big issue, the “lawyers” et al who are against this legislation are focused on the elimination of their “Wrongful Death Lawsuits”, not some arbitrary concern about lawful self-defense being used by people of illicit intent.

Obviously Daryl Parks, Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson and those of similarly like-minded specialty, are focused intently on these types of cases under the auspices of “civil rights violations”.

One only has to look at the circumstances surrounding the preponderance of the “Stand Your Ground” benefactors, or those who are most protected, to notice a specific ethnicity in the perpetrator vs. victim analysis. This is not racism, this is factually evident.

It might not be politically correct to point it out. But diminishing the adverse impact of Cultural Marxism (PC defined) should be a priority for every person who values freedom and the Bill of Rights.

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118 Responses to Why Did Trayvon Martin’s Funeral Director Lie ? More Lies and Agendas Exposed…

  1. kathyca says:

    SYG is directly analogous to tort reform in the product liability context. You will see a constant parade of plaintiffs’ lawyers appearing before state legislatures pretending to bemoan the rights of the injured masses, when all they are doing is bemoaning the potential loss of 33% of the punitive damages verdict or more. Same chapter, different verse — same ilk of lawyers with the same agenda…pfft.

  2. elvischupacabra says:

    S’all ’bout da Bennn-ja-muuuuuns!

    The unfolding monetary angles make a sick, sordid mess, even more putrid. Martin and Zimmerman are both unfortunate pawns in a full-contact, no-holds barred chess game.

    • brocahontas says:

      I think “chess” is giving them too much credit. The problem is that the other side doesn’t even realize that a game is being played. Even most “progressives” have no clue and actually believe that Trayvon was just a poor victim shot for walking while black. This level of deception just doesn’t even come into most people’s minds because they have actual ethical principles and can’t imagine that someone could be so lacking in scruples or ethical conduct.

  3. ytz4mee says:

    To recap: Funeral Director Kurtz is a big player in the local NAACP chapter. I’m sure that political outlook had no influence over his statements whatsoever.

  4. ytz4mee says:

    Oh, ICYMI, SA Corey doesn’t like Florida’s “Sunshine Laws” and all this disclosure of information to the unwashed masses before trial. I wonder why that would be …..

  5. richbranson305 says:

    My apologies if this has already been discussed, but I have been wondering about this and I thought I’d share with you guys. SDC above talks about the cuts and/or bruises on Trayvons hands. In an article I read by Massad Ayoob on the Zimmerman case, he say’s the following:

    “It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET.”

    So I’m just wondering if there is anything to this? Because it would really help the defense if there was indeed evidence that pointed to a struggle for the firearm. Here is the link to the article I was referencing.


    • myopiafree says:

      This is a difficult “Call”. Why? It might well be true – but police person would automatically “clear” the weapon for safety reasons – i.e., pull the slide back to clear the chamber, and the release the magazine. A picture of a spent case was taken with the case on the grass – but that could have been a result of clearing the weapon. If TM had a very tight grip on the slide – it would have fired, but not ejected. I hope this is clear.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Another reason would be if the gun was up against GZ, meaning the slide would be stopped from “sliding back” to load another bullet. I have to go back and see if gun powder residue or TM fingerprints found on the gun.

    • iamthetool says:

      No Martin DNA on gun.

      See pages 104-106 of the 26 March 2012 Laboratory Report, at:

      Document dump No. 1 – 183 pages

      • boricuafudd says:

        They didn’t do any GSR test on TM also. Which if he was reaching for the gun would show some gsr on the test. ME stated that the SPD did not request it done.

        • spectator1 says:

          I believe the gun was “ready” and a live round was cleared.

          • myopiafree says:

            I am not “contesting” you. It could happen this way – the pistol fired normally and ejected, and chambered the next round. The police officer, picks up the DA pistol – loaded – and now has to make it safe. So he pulls the slide back, ejecting the live round. So what does he do. He picks up the live round – and puts it back in the magazine. (No one truly knows what happened – except for the police officer.

    • cajunkelly says:

      And then there’s *THIS* from the news article above;

      Zimmerman said Martin threw the first punch and that he opened fire in self-defense after his screams for help went unanswered.

      SAY WHAT? Z didn’t “open fire” you idiots! And he didn’t fire the gun because “his screams for help went unanswered”.

      Z went for the gun when thug-in-training saw and went for it, saying “you’re gonna die tonight MFer”. It was a case of who lived and who died at that point.

      I said from the git-go (long before the re enactment was released)that IMO thug-in-training saw the gun and went for it, resulting in a life or death struggle for control of it.

      I agree with Glenn Beck; the liberal media has become treasonous.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Nat Jackson at one time claimed that George had said that Martin dragged him out of the car. There really are some bizarre twists on this story.

  6. akathesob says:

    Hummmmmmmmmmmm me smells a Rat!

  7. yankeeintx says:

    You mention brain and liver damage, but there is also lung damage. The autopsy report list “mild anthracosis, which is typically called Miner’s Lung. But I found this:
    “Anthracosis – A generic term for blackening of tissues, often understood to mean carbon dust deposition in the lung and lymph nodes, which does not itself cause disease, and is usually present in urban dwellers, and in those working in certain occupations–eg, coal mining.”
    Unless TM had a part-time job coal mining (maybe that is why he was missing so much school), I find it hard to believe that a healthy 17 year old would have even a mild case…unless he was smoking a lot of “something”.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Smoking something indeed. Have you ever seen what marijuana looks like, Sorry to sound nieve, but that is some disgusting looking stuff, looks like a shriveled up fungus of some sort. Can’t be good for the lungs. Never saw it before until this case came up, I always thought it was just a stinky leaf.

      • sidneytawl says:

        Marijuana has not been found to have a large association with lung disease. Also most likely tobacco is not the culprit for much of the lung disease associated with smoking. All the friggin chemicals and additives and other applied to tobacco when grown and post in the process of making a cigarette and then there are the “filters”.

        It is not the pot that did it. Maybe something “added” to the pot, blunts are not pure pot. They are a mixture of tobacco and pot. They are buying cigars to mix this with for a blunt. Cigar’s especially cheap cigars are crap and you don’t inhale cigars like pipe tobacco. Its done for the flavor, not the nicotine rush.

        Another possibility is that St. Skittles was in the “manufacturing” of other chemicals for recreational use. They can do lung damage and quickly.

        Meth in a bottle for instance. Meth can make a person mean too, real mean especially if they have been up on it for a while with little sleep. Meth would show in a tox report. 3-5 days on a Job type of test.

        Lots of possibilities for the lung damage.

  8. boricuafudd says:

    This SYG talk is another distraction from the lack of case against GZ. According to a June 3rd, 2012 article in the Tampa Bay Times there have been about 200 SYG cases since the law was passed in 2005. But reading the article we find out that only 118 cases had a SYG called, 29 where they classified as SYG even though it was not invoke and the rest were cases that someone the prosecutor, defense attorney or defendant mentioned the law. Another thing not all cases that used the SYG were killings, the moniker ” get away with murder defense ” is bunk.

    In 2011 alone there were 984 murders, 61,701 aggravated assaults, only 28 invoked the law. There have been some apparent abuses of the law, but the claim that it is a license to kill or any other such rhetoric is such that rhetoric.

    • Here is a useful article with data sets, capacity for narrowed research, and multiple links to SYG use in Florida specifically – including case highlights.


      • jordan2222 says:

        Nice find. This one is current as of this month and includes Zimmerman. I had seen one before but this looks like it is comprehensive with a search feature.

        It would be nice to know which, if any, of these cases resulted in civil suits. That’s the one I would like to see with some details of the suits.

        Don’t you just know how much it pained the Times to post the results of their poll about SYG views here in Florida?

        I “battled” them many years ago when they stopped taking classified ads for guns.

      • sidneytawl says:

        HOly Cow check this out. Its from one of the pages SDC linked to. It a “checklist” of what happened in the case and how it happened.

        Weighing the circumstances
        Trayvon Martin’s death became controversial because circumstances leading up to the shooting cast doubt on who was to blame. The Tampa Bay Times reviewed other “stand your ground” cases for similar circumstances. The Times relied on available information, some of which may not tell the whole story. When the situation was unclear, that was noted.
        Yes No Unclear/
        Did the victim initiate the confrontation? No

        Was the victim armed? NO

        Was the victim committing a crime that led to the confrontation? NO

        Did the defendant pursue the victim? YES

        Could the defendant have retreated to avoid the conflict? YES

        Was the defendant on his or her property? NO

        Did someone witness the attack? YES

        Was there physical evidence? YES

        It does not copy the “checkmarks” but this is how they were answered

        click on the first photo of the little girl. This Tampa Bay Times article is on the right scroll down a little.

        • jordan2222 says:

          The Times may be one of the most liberal papers in the country. They were one of the first to refused classified ads for guns many years ago. So consider the source.

        • froggielegs says:

          Instead of clicking on the girl, click on TM, his pic is on the top row.


          What’s even more interesting is if you scroll down on TM page and you will see Similar Cases. Click on the one that says 2008 Thonotosassa Citizen enforcing the law It says

          “Location details: On a public street in shooter’s neighborhood, Bay Hills Circle in Thonotosassa, Hillsborough County, on Feb. 29, 2008

          What happened: Charles Podany, 49, saw a truck speeding through his neighborhood and called 911. The operator told him to get the truck’s tag number, so Podany grabbed his gun and rode his bike down the street. When he reached the home where the truck was parked, one of the truck’s passengers, Casey Landes, hit Podany in the face and knocked him off his bike. The driver testified that his friend, who was drunk, was beating up Podany in a one-sided fight before Podany shot him in the head with a .40-caliber handgun. “The guy was scared, man,” the witness, Evin Aguayo, said. Although Landes was unarmed, Podany was smaller than his attacker.

          The outcome: Prosecutors filed manslaughter charges against Podany, but a Hillsborough County judge later granted him immunity and dismissed the charge. The judge said Podany was in a place where he had the right to be and had the right to defend himself while retreating from a confrontation.

          Investigating agency: Hillsborough County Sheriff
          Case decision made by: Judge

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Boricuafudd – Thanks for the detail on the SYG. I think few people know how to apply it – yet. This GZ/TM case will probably bring these issues to a head – which is why there is intense interest in this case. A very biased judge – will rule against George. The only real hope would have been that Grand Jury trial.

      • boricuafudd says:

        The funny thing is that had a Grand Jury returned a no bill, that would not have stopped any civil lawsuits. Unlike a SYG hearing will.

  9. I can’t wait to see TM hands. I know for sure GZ said a doz. or more punches. The AR drawing said abr. and scar. correct? Not cut(s) and brusies or did I miss that. TM hands will play a MAJOR role in this case IMO

    • iamthetool says:

      “small abrasion on the left fourth finger”

      See the link “FULL AUTOPSY REPORT HERE” in the original article above.

    • minpin06 says:

      An abraison is an open wound usually caused by something rubbing roughly against the skin. Oh wait, would that be like his knuckle rubbing up against concrete maybe?

      The purpose of the article is to point out that the funeral director said that TM had no fighting wounds that “he could see.” If the autopsy said abraison, it didn’t “heal” by the time the body was sent to the funeral director. If a proper autopsy was done, they would have peeled back the layers of skin on TM’s hands to look for bruising.

      What will play a major role in the case will be the clear injuries to GZ. The bruising, cuts or abraisons will only enhance that evidence.

  10. jordan2222 says:

    I am a bit confused. When I first started reading articles at this site, I thought I had read that the reason an arrest was being demanded was so that Crump could file a civil suit. So does George’s arrest open the door to civil suits even if he is found to be innocent or immune?

    • froggielegs says:

      If he is found Innocent yes. Look at OJ, Innocent in criminal trial yet civil suit with Nicole’s family he was found guilty. If he wins a SYG hearing which would grant him immunity, no.

      • sidneytawl says:

        I am not sure about this. It was discussed heavily at another board about the SYG immunity and when it “ends”.

        If he wins at the SYG hearing George appears to be immune. (though that exemption is under under constitutional grounds being attacked, before GZ)

        After that it appears to be murky. I never found anyone to clarify. Haven’t seen an opinion poster here either about it. Its a big part of this case. Lots of people to sue. GZ, Sanford PD, etc. I think GZ loses his ability to gain monetarily if he is found guilty.

        ome say if he goes to trial and found innocent, he is still immune. I read the statute, didn’t come to the same conclusion. I may not have all the law and I am not an attorney.

        I think Crumps actions speak to this. They were demanding that George be arrested. Arrest GZ Arrest GZ that was a chant and meme on TV.

        • jordan2222 says:

          Where are the lawyers here? Hey, SD, we need clarification, please.

        • froggielegs says:

          “Some say if he goes to trial and found innocent, he is still immune. I read the statute, didn’t come to the same conclusion. I may not have all the law and I am not an attorney.”

          Again, look at OJ trial. He was found innocent yet found guilty in a civil case.

          Also, being found not guilty didn’t prevent Casey Anthony from having civil suits brought against her.

          • The only aspect Florida has different that any other state is the “immunity” within the Stand Your ground or castle doctrine aspect.

            Once that immunity is determined, if he lost, he would be subject to the same civil lawsuits as anyone else accused of crime regardless of guilt or non-guilt at trial.

            Meaning if he goes to trial he is subject to the same liability as any other state. He can be found not-guilty at criminal trial by a reasonable doubt; and yet found liable at civil trial by a preponderance of evidence.

            However, the same legal basis exists for successful immunity argument. He only needs to show “reasonableness” by a “preponderance”. Hence the scheme team position if he loses at the immunity hearing then a preponderance of liability has been established and an unreasonable defense position has also been established ergo they will move rapidly with the civil actions.

            • froggielegs says:

              Yep! That’s what I was trying to say if he wins the SYG he can not be sued in civil court but if he goes to criminal court win or lose he can be sued in civil court.

            • jordan2222 says:

              And this why I seriously question MOM, an outspoken critic of SYG, and with virtually no experience (with the exception of one plea deal), even handling this case.

              It was only recently that he even mentioned SYG as a possibility. Maybe he changed his mind when he realized the defense fund would not pay him all the way through a trial.

              If so, let’s just hope he brings all of the guns he can find to the hearing. I still do not trust him to defend George. Too many things stink here.

              • exactly. It is very telling that when questioned about immunity in mid may after being on he case for 6 weeks he said the Stand Your Ground Law granting immunity was “absurd”.

                “absurd” was his word choice. THAT speaks very loudly to me personally. If a person believes a particular law is absurd, then what kind of advocate would they be during the implementation of that law.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  All the more reason to have someone else
                  helping George who has experience with SYG. I do not have a link but I did see a list of Florida lawyers recently who “advertise” the use of SYG.

    • minpin06 says:

      If GZ is found innocent in a SYG hearing, Crump cannot file any civil lawsuits against GZ, and no one else can either.

    • There are two main hurdles the scheme team needed to overcome to reach their payday. They have approached each logically and sequentially:

      Hurdle #1… They needed an arrest.
      Hurdle #2… They need George to lose the immunity (SYG) hearing, OR not to have it used at all.

      The immunity hearing would clear GZ of any wrongdoing and also protect him and any party from lawsuit as a result of his action.

      If the case goes to trial they have established enough progress to begin the civil suits for wrongful death. They do not need a conviction. Just the shere loss in immunity is enough for them to begin civil suits because going to trial itself establishes a reasonable cause.

      Does that make sense.

      Try not to use the terms guilt or innocence. Use the term immune or not immune and it will help clarify the actual circumstance.

      • minpin06 says:

        Thank you Sundance.

        “The immunity hearing would clear GZ of any wrongdoing and also protect him AND ANY PARTY from lawsuit as a result of his action.” Highlighting mine.

        That is why it would be ludicrous for the HOA to settle with Crump at this point. Not like Crump won’t try though.

        • jordan2222 says:

          Maybe not but I thought I had read that they had already settled with HOA. No?

          • I have indeed heard from a person close to the Scheme Team, that some kind of agreement has already been reached with the HOA. I am looking closely for any legal filings publically but not yet finding anything so there is a probability this “agreement” is going to run it’s course as a private settlement with a future liability release and hold harmless clause.

            Something along the order of blackmai/extortion: Settle now for $$$, or if you do not settle now, and George does not get immunity, then we will sue you for $$$x10.

            something along those lines is either “in the works” or “already determined and agreed upon”. Not sure which, but something like that.

            • jordan2222 says:

              That makes sense, because I suspect they need money now although I do not know what they are taking in or exactly where it would be coming from nor can I even guess how much they are spending on all of this. Sounds like they are making a bit of a “gamble” hoping for a huge payday. No?

            • kathyca says:

              that’s exactly the way it would work, and wouldn’t surprise me a bit under the circumstances. Crump knows there no case and sees the narrative falling apart, but he’s still got Lesters orders — at least for the next week or two. Strike while the iron is still hot. The insurer will walk away in this case, for policy limits at any rate. No doubt in my mind. Their big risk is publicity and the amount they would have to pay to defend first, then indemnify the HOA. Best to pay the limits on indemnity and not incur twice that amount or more on defense, than add indemnity on top of it AND face the possibility of a bad faith failure to settle claim on top of all of that. I would be shocked if Crump doesn’t have the HOA’s million dollar limit.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Thanks for the clarification. So he must be “immune.” Being found innocent at a trial still opens the door to the suits. I think I got it.

      • sidneytawl says:

        Yes when I used the term guilty, I meant he was found guilty. I wonder if he also looses his ability to sell his story at that point, cutting him off from funds. I have searched a few Times for something, I thought the Ted Bundy thing might have been a reason they would have it.

        If he loses that right as a murder felon then the only people able to sell their story are the Skittle family.

        Some from Fla know about when/if they can prevent felons from profiting from their story.

        • froggielegs says:

          That would be the Son of Sam Law where someone found guilty can not profit from movies, book deals etc from their crime. In some cases it is also extended to their families.

          • sidneytawl says:


            Son of Sam, bingo that led me to the Fl. law, and yes they do have that law.


            And I wondered how they got around the Federal copyright law etc. from Federal override. Its not done that way, It is take as a lien by the state if they make any money. So they can do the work, they will forfeit money to the State.

  11. jordan2222 says:

    You said:
    “Crump filed filed injunctions to seal school records, attendance records, disciplinary records, and law enforcement contact records as well as the autopsy.”

    How does Crump have legal authority to do that?

    Have all of those records actually been sealed?

  12. sidneytawl says:

    I agree that most of this is about the “immunity” in civil court. Note though that this does also have a constitutional aspect to it. Is it constitutional to deny someone the ability to file a lawsuit. That is still being hashed out.

    When talking about this case with others and tell them the facts about the 17 year old and not the 12 year old they know from the pictures. They say well if someone comes in my house I am going to shoot them to, or if someone does what happened to George I will shoot too.

    Ok, thats you’re choice/right, however the immunity standard is as far as I know specific to Florida.

    I then tell the people ok, but you’re then going to get sued by the family of the guy you shot most likely. I don’t care what the circumstances were, you’re going to get sued for some reason. You will have to hire an attorney and its going to take bucks to fight it. Bucks out of your pocket, because there is no monetary gain for your attorney except you. The other side is doing a split of some sort. You will settle out of court to make it go away. It will end up being cheaper than what a full blown case will cost and be cost effective. Though you still should not be in that position and they should not be able to squeeze people through this method.

    That is what Crump and all the ilk like him do. Look to squeeze people because they can. That is what needs to stop. Civil suits are not like criminal at all, all different standard and anyone can file a suit in most cases. That is the problem in my opinion.

    • minpin06 says:

      If a law is passed that states that you are not liable for civil lawsuits, it is constitutional. There is no debate about that unless you believe the constitution is a living breathing document which most progs do. Check the 10th amendment.

      I am not so sure that the civil immunity portion of the Fla. SYG law isn’t a part of the other 21 states SYG laws. If it didn’t apply, then why pass it when regular self-defense laws exist in all 57 states, if you go by Obama.

      • sidneytawl says:

        Minpin First I learned a long Time ago trying to define, project, and other on posters when asking them a question is noticed by at least me.

        I don’t get your argument about this being covered by the 10th amendment issue. And my “desires”. The 10th amendment EXISTS, and the interpretation taken is one of it does not favor the States. FLa passed first, then the other states followed. The challenge is to the States right to make a law about immunity from a lawsuit.

        I am not discussing the Original Intent or Living Document argument. The 10th is and its pure existence is used to claim (the Federal System)that States agreeing to the amendment. (by ratifying it) (James Madison put it forward, the guy who heavily influenced the whole body of work and Thomas Jefferson and the Writing he created.)
        Providing the reasoning which gave overriding power to the Government by the lack of the word Necessary. I can’t do anything about that.

        The claim against the immunity portion is from Civil rights violations, Federal Civil Rights violations. States have their own Civil rights claims.

        That is also going on in the background of this case.

        WE are after truth here minipin, not making a foul ball fair. (You cant make a foul ball fair by moving the foul line).(roger marris, to mickey mantle is a very old BW baseball movie for kids)

        Minipin have you read David McCullough (many) Joseph P Ellis, and on and on. I read these type of authors if you want to know. I don’t read Beck for my information on history if that means anything to you.

        You want to know about George Washington, what the mood and desires of the country were, and what they thought, John Adams, etc. Read these guys if you haven’t. Very well researched and written history from sources.

        Perhaps this case will reopen the debate on the issues you bring up. I am all for it.

        • minpin06 says:

          George Zimmerman did not deny Trayvon Martin his civil rights, though you’d be hard pressed to convince the “civil rights activists” such as Sharpton, Crump, Nat Jack et al. that that was the case. George had the “civil rights” to be suspicious of TM, to say something when he saw something, to protect his own self from great bodily harm, or death. There is no question that the Holder justice department, and the ACLU for that matter, would love nothing more than to claim that George violated TM’s civil rights, while at the same time violating George’s civil rights. With the evidence released, there is no basis for a claim that immunity should not apply, according to the laws on the books in Fla. which deny Crump the ability to extort everyone from the state down to George and his family for every penny they can get.

          George did not deny Trayvon’s right to be where he was, he did not profile him because he was black, he did not deny him the ability to go back to Brandy’s condo, and end the incident before anything further ensued. George did not deny Trayvon any of his rights. OTOH, when Trayvon sucker punched George in the face, and knocked him to the ground, and put a beat down on him, he violated George’s civil rights up to and including his right to life.

          I have no desire to debate, or to discuss Benjamin Crumps ability to bring civil lawsuits against George, and everyone else he can, because George violated Trayvon’s civil rights. To do so would deny George his right to equal protection of the laws, which to date have been rampant, particularly with respect to the progs in the media, which is where the Crumps and the prosecution is holing their trial against George Zimmerman.

          If you want to go back and refight the 1960’s civil rights laws, please remind the blacks that every American has rights not just those with black skin.

          This is the kind of circular logic, and debating that drives me crazy. There is no such thing with some as settled law, and the right that the state of Florida had to pass laws that protect some from being financially raped, even after being found to be acting properly with defending themselves.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
      (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
      (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
      (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

      • jordan2222 says:

        Now this is very interesting:
        (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

        • maggiemoowho says:

          GZ will need a good civil suit lawyer when he gets aquitted. Go after the state, the media, the entire Camp TM crew and the NBPP(well, Oby will probably protect them). I could go on and on, right down to the maufacturer of that hoodie.(can tie it in somehow).

  13. trayvonobama says:

    Please tell me that I didn’t hear this right….listen to the very end of this video. I think Im about to lose my fu#@&ng mind.

  14. I’m a retired physician and I read the autopsy report four times. The pathologist noted a “small abrasion” on Martin’s left fourth finger. He also noted some fatty metamorphosis of the liver and significant cerebral edema of the brain but did not comment on the likely causes for those abnormalities. Absent some further scientifically based comments by pathologists, I do not believe that one can or should conclude anything about the causes of those abnormalities. Furthermore, the “small abrasion” notation is accompanied by no comment as to the age of that finding. To me, that is a deficiency of the autopsy report. I do believe that Zimmerman was acting in self defense given the other information available, but I don’t think the autopsy report sheds a lot of light on the matter.

    • trayvonobama says:

      Thanks for chiming In Doc….much appreciated.:)

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Could you shed some light on the height difference. The ME said he was 5’11”, however the family says he was 6’0″. Do muscles contract or does something happen that would cause this difference in height.

      • ottawa925 says:

        maggie, when this whole thing started I remember the media stating he was 6’3. Then BANG, you NEVER heard that again. Every mention of his size began to make Trayvon smaller and smaller. Then wittled it down to where he was just maybe an inch taller than Zimmerman. One of the reasons I thought about this early on is no one is going to “run after” someone who can outrun them easily. It’s a stupid exercise, so no one with half a brain would do that. But that’s what they were claiming … GZ was running after Trayvon brandishing his weapon. That was a picture meant to incite everyone. 6’3 is pretty damn tall in my book cause I have a friend who is that height and it is an damn imposing figure. They always tower over everyone else in a crowd. They cover a lot of ground when they run yet don’t appear to be going fast (this friend played QB in football). It’s like a giraffe … how they appear to lope along, yeah, except for one thing … the stride is almost 20 feet.

        Further, anyone who follows boxing or MMA for example is familiar when they put up the tale of the tape. The tale of the tape will compare the stats of two fighters who will fight each other. One of the factors is REACH. I’m thinkin Trayvon would appear to have the advantage in every category of the tale of the tape against George. Hence, that’s why George took a beating.

    • I do not believe that one can or should conclude anything about the causes of those abnormalities.

      Whoot :D Hell, at this point just getting someone to admit they are “abnormalities” is a victory unto itself. :D :D :D ……. we await the toxicology, and are cheerful that tissue samples were taken of both the liver and brain.

      Yes, determine the cause of the abnormalities please. Yes please, very muchly please.

  15. trayvonobama says:

    Talk about keeping it real.

    • Sharon says:

      What an excellent individual this man is. And may his tribe increase.

      Gotta check out his site: James David Manning http://atlah.org/ There’s a pile of stuff there that looks good, haven’t gone through it yet.

      • ottawa925 says:

        Sharon, the black powers that be have been discrediting and calling this man names for years. What it all boils down to is the black powers that be are keeping their own ppl enslaved. Manning knows that. He’s no fool. There are others out there like him, but not enough to overturn the wrong being done to the black community by those that pretend to be their protectors. They are taught that they are Democrats from the day they are born. Any political free thinkers are warned … don’t go there … you will be an outcast if you do. One day after watching Manning, I found this man who totally speaks the truth … please watch:

  16. spectator1 says:

    There is a measurement that i believe could be extremely accurate, possibly a laser shot of TM’s length at the crime scene, 75.6 inches, http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php?action=post;quote=96715;topic=2074.30;last_msg=98161

  17. scubachick75 says:

    Just the simple fact that a funeral director, a black funeral director at that, would inject himself so far into a case that he is doing media interviews and giving his personal feelings about it smells dirty to me.

  18. 4ayces says:

    Could you point out to me where the autopsy report states that there was “bruising” on Martin’s hands?

    I have read the report multiple times now and have not found any mention of bruising.

  19. lulutoo says:

    maggiemoowho, I wondered about that, too, so I did some research. The ME measures the deceased’s body as received. Rigor would have begun, so muscles would be contracted. The body would be in the position in which it had fallen. That might not necessarily be lying on its back, stretched to its full height. MEs do their best estimate and call it “length” rather than height.

  20. knuckledragingwino says:

    The comments from the funeral director highlight why the inaccuracies and lack of thoroughness in the autopsy are a big problem. As I have harped on earlier, the ME mischaracterized the wound to TM as an “intermediate range” gun shot. Depending on what reference you cite, this can be anywhere from 2″ to 40″ but most people will assume a longer range that is inconsistent with GZ’s description of events. The fact that the ME noted the presence of Ring Abrasion, Stripling (aka Tattooing) and SOOT reveals that the wound was at maximum a Close Range and perhaps a Contact Range gunshot. There are definitive forensic tests that can more accurately determine the range at which someone was shot, yet the ME failed to take swabs from the skin around the wound or tissue samples from the wound to be used in these tests. The ME also failed to take swabs of TM’s hands that could have been tested to determine if TM was attempting to grab or deflect GZ’s gun. The incident synopsis in the autopsy was provided by POC who was Detective Serino. Obviously; Serino had related his preconceived theory of events to the ME. It is reasonable to conclude that either the presumption that Serino was correct or more likely collusion motivated the ME to mischaracterize the shooting distance and not take relavant samples that could conclusively refute his conclusion.

    We owe the folks at the FDLE crime lab our gratitude for doing far more rigorous, unbiased testing that confirms that TM was shot at Contact Range and appears to have been struggling for the gun.

    • boricuafudd says:

      The ME states that the SPD did not request GSR tests on TM. Is on the ME narrative.

      • knuckledragingwino says:

        SPD = Serino!

        Serino intentionally failed to request GSR testing because he didn’t want the ME collecting data that might refute the Crump narrative of GZ hunting TM down like a dog.

    • docraoul says:

      The ME’s “intermediate range” assessment is not inconsistent with GZ’s description.

      • knuckledragingwino says:

        The ME’s “intermediate range” assessment is not inconsistent with the Crump – Serino narrative of GZ “hunting TM down like a dog.”. The far more accurate and obvious conclusion that TM had been shot either at Close Range or Contact Range is totally inconsistent with the Crump – Serino scenario. The very accurate testing of TM’s clothing by the FDLE crime lab establishes not only that GZ shot TM at Contact Range, TM was in a struggle for GZ’s gun.

        Why would you attempt to justify the ME’s obviously fraudulent “intermediate range” finding? Are you trying to protect the ME from a lawsuit that he so richly deserves?

        • When Gilbreath was on the stand at the 1st bond hearing, he described the powder burns on Martin’s sweatshirt as “near contact” and the stippling as “close proximity”.

        • docraoul says:

          Lester asked Gilbreath at the bond hearing how close the shot was. “Gilbreath also testified the powder burns caused by gunfire on Martin’s sweatshirt show he was shot at very close range.”
          When the ME report came out many were confused by the characterization of “intermediate range” as you still seem to be. To over simplify the ME does not assume any clothing on the body during his analysis. So to him it appears the shot came from a farther distance. The state does not contest that the evidence shows the shot was at VERY close range, near contact.

  21. Pingback: Apparently, George Zimmerman is not quite the monster that people thought he was - Page 49

  22. juggler523 says:

    If there is a SYG hearing AND Zimmerman prevails, Benjamin Crump will NOT get a big payoff for a wrongful death civil suit. If Zimmerman is found not guilty at trial, the civil case can proceed, or perhaps the Martins and Crump law firm can SCARE Zimmerman into a settlement. Not much of a chance, but at least a chance. It KILLS Benny Crump for a SYG hearing to occur, because that means Zimmerman has a chance of avoiding prosecution AND a civil suit. THAT’S why Benny Crump will fight to the death to prevent one.

    • minpin06 says:

      Yes and because as many have claimed, Benny is hiding under Angela Corey’s dress, and I will add Pam Bondi’s also, that is the thrust of the whole prosecution. Corey admitted, in public, in her presser, that she is fighting for, and praying with, the sweet sweet Martin parent’s, and Justice for Trayvon. She has been willing to throw George Zimmerman under the bus, as though he is a foreign terrorist, not to be afforded equal protection under the law. Corey, and no one else on the prosecution team has ever exchanged the first word with George Zimmerman, nor has Corey ever prayed with George. According to Tracy Martin, George prays to a different God than him. Apparently Corey only prays with and to Tracy’s God, which seems to be the same God Rev. Jeremiah Wright prays to. Benjamin Crump is one of Wrights chickens that have come home to roost.

      It would be lovely if Zimmerman had an atty. that was willing and able to see the prosecutions MO. When you have someone defending you that thinks the SYG laws are absurd, you have put your entire future in the wrong hands.

  23. knuckledragingwino says:

    If GZ wins a SYG hearing, MOM could then win huge payoff from all of the Slander and Libel suits that GZ could win against all of the media who altered and fabricated evidence.

  24. 4ayces says:

    I posted last night asking for someone to direct me to where “bruising” on Martin’s hands is indicated in the autopsy report.

    So far, no response.

    I’m thinking that perhaps my comment got lost in the shuffle and has not been noticed by those who may have the answers.

    • iamthetool says:

      Does bruising develop if the potential bruisee (in this case also the bruiser!) dies almost immediately?

      • 4ayces says:

        The answer to that question would be “yes” since bruising results from blood vessels being broken.

        But, if you don’t like my answer, perhaps you should ask sundancecracker. That’s the person who claimed that Martin’s autopsy report recorded bruising.

        Strange that’s not actually in the autopsy report though, eh?

        Surely sundancecracker and theconservativetreehouse wouldn’t publish things that are untrue in an attempt to accuse the funeral director of lying.

        Surely not.

        • ftsk420 says:

          Richard Kurtz told CBS News that when he was preparing the teen’s body for the funeral, it was clear of bruises, cuts and scrapes or any other signs of a fight.

          We already know he had a cut on his finger but this guy missed it.

          • 4ayces says:

            Your straw man response doesn’t address the the question that I find my self repeatedly asking here:

            Where does the autopsy report state that Martin had “bruising” on his hands?

            That’s what the author of this article claims to be true. Yet, upon reading the autopsy report, I discover that there is no mention of bruising.

            Why would the author of this article write things that are untrue in an effort to paint the funeral director as a liar?

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  27. Pingback: Treyvon Martin’s Criminal Past/Past Behavior = 100% Relevant for Court | Specfriggintacular's Blog

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