Vigil Held for Twenty Killed in New York Limo Crash – Deadliest Accident Since 2009…

Saturday’s deadly crash in Schoharie, New York in which a limo driver, 17 passengers and two pedestrians were killed is the deadliest transportation accident of any kind in the U.S. since 2009.  It is really stunning that not a single person survived the accident.  Horrific.

NEW YORK (Reuters) – The limousine involved in an upstate New York crash that killed 20 people over the weekend failed inspection last month, and its driver did not have the proper license to operate the vehicle, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Monday.

Saturday’s accident, which killed two pairs of newlyweds, four sisters from one family and two brothers from another, was the deadliest U.S. transport crash in nearly a decade, according to federal authorities.

Cuomo identified the company that owned the 2001 Ford Excursion limousine as Prestige Limousine, a small company based in Gansevoort, New York, according to federal Department of Transportation records.

All three of the company’s vehicles had violations when they were inspected last month, records show.

The inspection of the limousine that crashed turned up several violations at the time, including anti-lock brake malfunction indicators and inoperative or defective windshield wipers. The company only employed two drivers, according to the records. (read more)

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398 Responses to Vigil Held for Twenty Killed in New York Limo Crash – Deadliest Accident Since 2009…

  1. wtd says:

    Schoharie crash limo driver had previous drug-traffic arrests
    https://scallywagandvagabond.com/2018/10/scottt-lisinicchia-schoharie-crash-limo-driver-drug-traffic-arrests/
    Police court records indicated the 53 year old man of Maple Avenue in Stillwater being arrested and charged, Nov. 22, 2013 with seventh-degree criminal possession of a controlled substance, unlawful possession of marijuana and an equipment violation following a traffic stop on Crescent Street

    Liked by 3 people

  2. agentcommonsense says:

    At Press conference today they said some unknown force so strong that the engine block pushed through driver and into the back.. That sounds like a bomb

    Liked by 4 people

    • WSB says:

      But the photo does not show that kind of impact. Or at least that area of the vehicle. Does not look like a fire took place.

      Like

    • Sunshine says:

      Kinetic energy.

      Like

      • Bill_M says:

        No seat belts. It’s trite, but seat belts do save lives. And in this accident, probably would have saved a number of lives. The vehicle body did not look that seriously damaged.

        Like

    • SharonKinDC says:

      Watched a video of a stretch limo crash test. What happens, is due to the vehicle being cut in half and a new section welded in the middle, a section that is very strong for obvious reasons, is the front crumples like paper but the rest of the limo remains intact b/c the middle section protects the rear… However, w/o seatbelts being worn, the people inside continue to move forward at 60 mph, or whatever speed the vehicle was moving, just prior to impact. Didn’t save the link, and the video is several years old. The evidence was compelling and the limo appears to have done just what happened in the video. Which included the engine block intruding into the front cabin.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      I’ve investigated, picked up, and swept up, a few military airplane crashes in my day, and weird crap happens, most especially with the heavy engines, there’s a lot of kinetic energy in those, and their mounts are designed to fail to minimize their effect on the airframe, they tend to keep going while the lighter fuselage slows first.

      Modern automobiles also are designed to let the engine go free in a collision, particularly when hit from the front, but the intention is for the engine to be pushed under the vehicle, away from the driver.

      In this case, considering the manner in which this long heavy rig smashed into essentially an unyielding hillside, the engine could well have been freed from it’s mounts and slammed right back, but unfortunately with enough force and at an unanticipated angle that put it through the firewall instead of under the truck.

      The initial impact with the parked SUV could have loosened the engine up considerably before the final impact, maling the bounce-back possibility that much greater.. We are looking at a multiple impact event, what happened in the parking lot has to have had some effect on the final impact.

      What a mess.

      Liked by 5 people

      • Sunshine says:

        LIKE. But how to address that the floor of the vehicle seems intact?
        They’re not showing us the full impact on the vehicle except one loose tire that appears to belong to the front left side.
        BTW: I have one friend who survived a broken neck.
        In this case, not one survivor.

        Like

        • Maquis says:

          The firewall is essentially the wall between the engine compartment and the cabin, the engine coukd have punched through that without messing up the floor pan.

          I’m also wondering if the frame splices and reinforcements didn’t somehow alter the functionality of the original design’s ability to allow the engine to plow under the vehicle. What if the modifications essentially funnelled the engine straight back instead?

          Lot of moving pieces, so to speak, to this story. I do hope we learn the many truths and facts now hidden…but I don’t trust the “authorities” to not cover up and deflect and ignore. Hope people can put enough pressure on to force this open.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. DeAnna Vaughn says:

    Something very fishy about this accident. The limo does not even look that beat up and to have EVERYONE in it killed? Doesn’t add up.

    Liked by 9 people

    • Eric C. says:

      Safety systems and vehicle design!!!!

      When I first started in the fire dept 25 years ago people died in wrecks with hardly any damage since all the energy created is crash was transfer to the occupant, especially if they were unrestrained. At the end of my career people were walking away from some horrific crashes if the wore their seat belt along with how the vehicle was designed to shred apart and absorb the energy.

      That limo has zero safety devices, no one was wearing a seatbelt and the energy created by its weight transferred to the occupants.

      Liked by 16 people

      • Patriot1783 says:

        Unsecured bodies are always at the mercy of high speed and heavy weight.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Eric C. says:

          Kinetic energy = 1/2 mass times velocity squared

          A stretch limo excursion weighs a lot!!!

          Liked by 5 people

          • Ken says:

            The weight of the limo means nothing. The energy dissipated during the brutal impact on the unrestrained occupants has more to do with THEIR mass, not the limos.

            Think of it this way: The limo and humans were moving down the road. All are going the same speed, so no relative motion. Suddenly the limo goes off the road and comes to an immediate stop. All masses inside continue at their velocity until impeded. The extreme deacceleration as the occupants hit the non-moving interior of the limo causes massive damage. The kinetic energy of each person (1/2*their mass*their initial velocity squared) is sufficient to cause injury and death.

            This is an unbelievable tragedy that simply defies comprehension. My heartfelt prayers go to the families involved.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Maquis says:

              This is my take as well.
              Limo stopped, passengers didn’t.

              The energy of the Limo was “transferred” to the passengers merely inasmuch as they were made to travel at the same speed as the Limo.

              The energy of the engine and whatever other bits we haven’t seen (yet) surely did, indeed, transfer energy against the occupants.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Jeff C-C says:

                You guys are trying hard to make it work, but the physics doesn’t. Not one survivor? Minimal visible damage (it didn’t roll, no windows were broken)? Count me as a skeptic as to an accident accounting for this tragedy.

                Not wanting to go all conspiracy theory on y’all, but WhatDoesItMean.com has a simpler explanation (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index2679.htm). The limo was owned by an Al-Qaeda-in-the-Indian-Subcontinent terrorist wanted in Pakistan for terrorist murder.

                We have been tightening the screws on Pakistan recently. This is their way of fighting back.
                May this be related to Nikki Haley resigning as our U.N. representative?

                Like

      • Jason Ross says:

        It’s not a Ford model 1962… even an Excursion from the early 2000s would have panels that crumple, not to mention a drivers airbag. No evidence of any crumpling or airbag. The vehicle looks untouched.

        Like

        • SharonKinDC says:

          It was an aftermarket extension and that vehicle had been inspected the month prior. Wasn’t supposed to be on the road. Among the equipment failures, the ABS system wasn’t working properly. The owner of the company, a former FBI informant, has a series of lawsuits that piled up against him over the years. He hasn’t been in the US for some time, per the Daily Mail article I read.

          Liked by 1 person

          • boogywstew says:

            The anti lock brakes not passing inspection is a false flag IMHO. Just an anti lock brake failure would only account for a small increase in braking distance, if any at all. If the master cylinder was bad, the brakes would still work but the driver would have to stand on the brake pedal. In a dual braking system, required by law since 1967, if a brake line, caliper or brake drum cylinder failed, on either the front brakes or the rears, you’d still have the other end. The parking/emergency brakes would work without brake fluid because they’re cable actuated on the rear wheels. If the front brakes failed, then that would be potentially catastrophic because the front brakes probably account for 75 – 90% of the braking but in that case the rear wheels would definitely lock up and there would be skid marks from the rear tires before the intersection, through the intersection and all through the parking lot. My Ford Econoline 350 Supervan is Ford’s longest Econoline van and when purchased with the windows all around, is used by many, many churches and government agencies to haul 15 passengers. From the factory, with absolutely no aftermarket modifications, my van could hold 15 passengers. That’s the 2 front bucket seats, then 3 bench seats that seat 3 apiece and a bench seat across the very back that seats 4. (2+3+3+3+4=15) My van weighs over 3 tons empty and probably has a very similar braking system to a Ford Excursion. I do all my own brake work and have been for about 45 years. I do things by the book and I have worked in the service departments of several Mercedes dealerships. Being able to stop is much more important than going.

            Liked by 1 person

        • Arthur Lange says:

          No one with seatbelts. No one lived.

          Like

      • Sunshine says:

        Like. The Law of Physics.
        However, they say he was driving down a steep slope and there was a stop sign.
        If you’ve driven down a steep slope, you have no choice, you must dramatically reduce your speed. No choice or else you lose control.

        Like

    • Sunshine says:

      Like. Not one survivor. How can that be?

      Like

      • mpmp2015 says:

        Smells a lot like the Vegas massacre cover-up. Sounds unbelievable to be true. EVERYONE that heard the story initially thought it was strange that ALL the passengers were killed as a result of the crash. It was furthermore called into question once the photo of the limo was published that did not show it being completely burned or crumpled. There’s a lot of padding in a limo, in addition, there were 18 people inside the limo, human padding if you can describe it as such to absorbed the force of a crash. Yet we are all asked to believe that this occurred because no one was wearing a seat belt or something doing with kinetic energy. The whole narrative just sounds fishy to be believe at face value without serious scientific and criminal forensic validation. I’m not saying it didn’t happen the way it was initially reported, but I’m reserving judgment until all the facts come in.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Peg_C the Deplorable says:

      Smells like a gigantic coverup already. This is close to Albany, NXIVM, Cuomo, etc.., etc.

      Like

    • SharkFL says:

      Poison gas in the vehicle to kill everyone before the ‘crash’?
      Look at the backgrounds of the limo company owners and the passengers.
      Look at the autopsy findings when they come out.
      Fishy only in the sense that covert assassination is fishy.

      Like

  4. Republicanvet91 says:

    Nothing should be off limits in this investigation, but I’m a little shocked at how quickly state officials are pointing fingers at Limo’s, regulation of them and other things other than the intersection.
    One of the early reports I read on this quoted locals who said that intersection has been so accident prone, they no longer allow big trucks on it.

    If it is that accident prone, pointing fingers elsewhere will not fix the problem.

    Liked by 5 people

  5. wheatietoo says:

    As others have mentioned…it is suspicious that everyone in that limo was killed.

    Who were those passengers?
    Was one of them a target?

    Or was ‘someone’ sending a message with this accident-which-was-no-accident…
    Perhaps the message of:
    “We can take out your whole family if you don’t do what we want.”

    Liked by 6 people

    • Deb says:

      It was a birthday party for a newly married woman. Her three sisters were also killed, and her brother in law. The kids are orphans. The husband and his brother also killed. Also some cousins. One of the couples killed was a groomsman and his girlfriend, the groomsman was a veteran.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      Check Wolfmoon bottom of the previous page, he has a potential culprit with possible strong motive, and two potential targets, both now dead.

      He’s also cited methods farther up that an “intetested party” could use to distract the driver at just the “opportune” moment.
      Spooky.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Peg_C the Deplorable says:

      Definitely someone sending a huge message, is my bet.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Msher says:

    Given limo is intact, did not burn, is not under water, is not crushed, death at scene of all 18 occupants, who appear to have been fit twenty – somethings requires explanation, especially with FBI informant and terrorism in the background. Gov. Cuomo is talking about vehicle not passing safety inspections and uncertainty as to whether driver and company had required licenses . Assume all that’s all true. That goes to likelihood of vehicle getting into crash, at what speed and perhaps how many passengers had seat belts ( which a partying group don’t tend to wear).Yes that might up the body count. but all 18 dead at scene still highly unusual, especially with the little we know so far of circumstances. What killed fhem?

    Liked by 3 people

    • WSB says:

      It also doesn’t say much about NY State removing bad cars and drivers from our roads.

      Our local paper, not too far from this debacle, constantly lists drivers and cars not having the proper inspection, license, or registration.

      Like

    • Eric C. says:

      Cars don’t burn in crashes, most of the time (25 years experience in a busy fire dept)

      Less damage to the vehicle means more energy transferred to occupants. To stretch the excursion it needed tons of reinforcement and became a rigid body which is a poor “safety” design.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Msher says:

        Eric C.
        If you approached this vehicle, would you expect to find 20 dead occupants? Not even a gravely injured person who died en route to the hospital.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Jason Ross says:

      Vehicle in linked images above is intact. No windows are cracked and no blood is visible. Pics from Saturday afternoon linked in BBC article even show it resting perhaps 2 or 3 feet from the asphalt edge.

      CNN article adds to the mystery, stating “No skid marks were observed” yet the engine was displaced through the driver compartment.

      What exactly happened here? Were the passengers instantly dead from hitting the second car? Were they deceased before that??

      Like

      • SharonKinDC says:

        Repeating a prior post: Watched a video of a stretch limo crash test. What happens, is due to the vehicle being cut in half and a new section welded in the middle, a section that is very strong for obvious reasons, is the front crumples like paper but the rest of the limo remains intact b/c the middle section protects the rear… However, w/o seatbelts being worn, the people inside continue to move forward at 60 mph, or whatever speed the vehicle was moving, just prior to impact. Didn’t save the link, and the video is several years old. The evidence was compelling and the limo appears to have done just what happened in the video. Which included the engine block intruding into the front cabin.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Jason Ross says:

          I still don’t get the quick comparisons of this incident to a plane crash.
          Speed of the vehicle and a plane are vastly different. The limo even hit a stationary vehicle which would slow its travel i.e. it couldn’t be accelerating at all after that point.
          No images thus far indicate a hard head-on impact into the ground. I could see perhaps a few deaths at the moment the limo struck the truck, but the severity of this impact would have only softened the final collision, if there was a second impact at all.
          A reference was made earlier to the bus crash in Canada with the hockey players. That was a head-on collision … much more akin to a plane crash in that case.

          Like

  7. agentcommonsense says:

    Bill Waterson, who lives nearby, said he was stunned by the sight of the wreckage. “All the car parts, door panels covered in blood still on the ground and everything. It was bad,” he said. “I’m 68-years-old, I’ve never seen so much destruction.”

    BOMB !
    Come on 60 mph hit 2 pedestrians and a Chevy Tahoe then into a ditch all 18 die

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Mark Ryyan says:

    OK. I have walked away from a few high speed automobile collisions back in the day when it was uncool to wear seatbelts (I did not wear them then). There would have been sensory perception among most if not all passengers that a crash was imminent, and it would be survival instinct to brace as best as possible for an impact. Statistically, there should have been survivors, considering the ages of the passengers. There had to have been a yet detected mitigating factor. Considering how these limos are constructed, with extended air conditioning systems by independent (not factory) vendors; I am of a notion that a drastic freon leak in the extended AC system may have contributed to the death toll. Inhalation of freon incapacitates quickly. This would be a plausible and provable explanation. Or one could extend conspiracy theory to it, since muslim connections are inferred, and posit that the possible terrorist driver deliberately released some incapacitating agent for the same affect. I’ll lay wager with my first supposition, but not rule out the second.

    Liked by 3 people

    • The amount of R134a in that system would be less than 4 pounds- most of it would be in the compressor and condenser which are not in the passenger area. NO WAY R134a – even a full 30# tank could displace enough oxygen in a porous envelope to kill a human. R134a is not toxic enough to injure a person even with a full inhale of it.

      Liked by 1 person

    • LivLovely101 says:

      Having observed multiple cars/trucks being modified/customized/restored etc, not all welders, auto body guys, pro or not, are created equal.

      And just because it’s labeled a Ford Excursion, doesn’t mean the engine or the front end etc WAS a Ford Excursion.
      I lived near a Speedway in a rural area and have seen some vehicles that were put together like Frankenstein and of course, were bearing phony plates. Young guys, “motorheads”, would put their money into a big engine, and the rest was anybody’s guess.
      My experience has been that if someone ignores the BAD BRAKES, imagine what else could be wrong?

      Could’ve blown a tire, no brakes, bad driver, no seatbelts, loose engine block= bad crash.

      All that said, someone should’ve been left alive.

      THAT I cannot explain. Even if they passed en route to the hospital, that would be understandable, but no one? Very odd.

      Liked by 2 people

    • G. Combs says:

      I hit black ice and flew (literally) off the highway doing 70mph and hit a ditch. The car was U shaped after the impact. No seatbelts and I held the other front seat passenger back from hitting the dash.

      We both walked away. I had a whiplash neck injury and that is all.

      Like

      • _Jim says:

        Anecdotal and you were just plain lucky. Your strategy had little to do with it. Things COULD have easily turned out a lot worse. And yes, I’m back. Glad you survived in any case.

        Like

      • boogywstew says:

        Your car hit an object so hard that it was bent into a “U” and during this event, where your body was still moving forward at 70mph, you were able to reach over and hold a 100 lb object, itself going 70mph and probably had a force of a thousand pounds moving forward … you did this with ONE arm?

        Liked by 1 person

        • G. Combs says:

          YES!

          I was a horseman, cave & climber in the peak of fitness and scared to death.

          Liked by 2 people

        • G. Combs says:

          I should note I had a bit of time before my car slid off the road. Just not enough to get it back under control. It was enough to get my adrenaline spiking though.
          …..

          The T intersection has a 50 MPH sign well before the intersection plus a stop ahead sign. The road is open with fields and houses and not wooded, and it is pretty much straight. If the driver was paying attention he should have been slowing well before the intersection unless the brakes failed.

          Google maps has a good street view of the road. It shows a steep hill sign with two flags after a road narrows sign at the crest of the hill.

          Liked by 1 person

  9. Bendix says:

    It just burns me that, even if it turns out not to be much of a factor, that this Pakistani criminal with FBI connections was free to set up a shoddy business with an improperly licensed driver in Gansevoort, of all places.
    The last place you’d expect to find a creep like that.
    I don’t know what kind of training is required to get a limo license, but the driver certainly didn’t have it.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Moultrie Flag says:

      It is not uncommon for immigrant owned businesses to cut corners in excess. It is a different mindset.

      Like

    • Peg_C the Deplorable says:

      Pakistani, criminal, Muslim, FBI. As far as I’m concerned it was absolutely a huge hit, false flag, whatever you want to label it. And the coverup will be even bigger.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. AceODale says:

    From what I’ve read here and from other sources:
    >Inherently dangerous intersection – 3 way stop at the bottom of a hill
    >Overloaded limo – capacity is usually around twelve. I know a driver who bragged about getting fifteen into one.
    >Under-equipped limo – one source suggested it had been custom stretched with the likelihood of inadequate braking and other safety lapses
    >Under-maintained limo – previously failed inspections and the company had been warned (multiple times!?!) Why was this outfit still allowed to operate? Several sources reported on text messages sent by some of the deceased earlier in the trip commenting on the vehicle’s poor condition.
    >Improperly licensed driver – he shouldn’t have needed a federally recognized CDL but he still didn’t meet New York State requirements.
    >Alcohol involved? – a couple of sources indicated the limo was operating a “wine tour.” Was the driver a participant, as well?

    Piecing together the event, sounds like the limo entered the intersection in excess of fifty miles per hour, struck by a pickup also entering the intersection (that driver was uninjured), struck a parked SUV, killed two pedestrians, then left the pavement and went over about a fifteen foot embankment.

    IMHO, although the driver is ultimately at fault here, there is sufficient blame to levee at the company and responsible government agencies. The company and the conditions of the vehicles and drivers were known to local agents. The intersection has apparently been a public hazard for years. Yet nothing was done about either situation. This is how you generate a perfect storm.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. BigBlockMill says:

    My guess is that the driver was in a hurry to deliver his passengers to the aloha snackbar.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. DebbieUK says:

    Tragic .

    Stretch limos are very rare in UK because “cut and shut ” has been banned for decades..Also the number of people allowed in the vehicle is very surprising to me..

    Like

    • Maquis says:

      Roundabouts would suck too.

      I love roundabouts, but Limos aren’t up for them.

      Like

      • G. Combs says:

        I HATE roundabouts!
        They just started putting them in here in NC In Pittsboro someone didn’t realize the road had changed and took out the porch and living room of the house next to the roundabout. Semis and those of us hauling trailers have problems with them when they are too small to navigate at a decent speed.

        OH and the design in Pittsboro and Sanford and other places with small roundabouts is a Concrete inverted saucer in the middle specially design to FLIP a truck entering too fast.

        Like

  13. smiley says:

    owner of the limo was an FBI informant , according to this…

    FBI Informant In Terror Stings Owned Limo In Deadly Crash, State Source Confirms

    https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/FBI-informant-in-terror-stings-owned-limo-in-13290392.php

    Oct 8, 2018

    he was Shahed “Malik” Hussain…originally from Pakistan…interesting trail, starting just after the 9/11 terrorist attacks..

    …more about this, at the link.

    plot twist.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. treehouseron says:

    I used to work for a Limo company for years, let me tell yall a little ‘insider’ info.

    No car manufacturer actually makes Limousines. The way they’re created is they take a standard issue vehicle, and have a ‘carriage company’ turn it into a Limo. So for instance they take a Lincoln Navigator, a company cuts it, extends the rails, rebuilds the center of the vehicle, etc.

    Some of the companies that do this do a really good job. Some of the companies that do this are complete hacks. Those vehicles of course are less expensive to buy.

    Just imagine taking a 2001 Ford Excursion, which was a less expensive SUV to begin with and turning it into some frankenstein vehicle. Did they consider the brake power needed to carry 18 passengers instead of the designed 6 or whatever? Were the brakes beefed up for the extra 4000 pounds of sheet metal and chassis that they added to the vehicle?

    Now consider the vehicle is 17 years old. That is REALLY old for a Limousine. Anything older than 10 years as a public transport vehicle is ridiculous. These things get destroyed. Tons of miles, they’re always turned on and running between stops, people treat them like a port-a-john in the back cabin…..

    That vehicle was likely a death trap with 18 people in it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Maquis says:

      I was with you up to the port-a-john!
      So now we add corrosives to the mix…

      Liked by 1 person

    • _Jim says:

      ‘Stretch’ limos – you’re talking stretch limos here.

      Liked by 1 person

    • George Hicks says:

      The new center section and the now moved-back rear section also have to be perfectly square and aligned with the front of the vehicle or the steering can get funky too, especially at higher speeds.
      Think of a car with a bent frame, even if they do a great job of straightening it, it will never ride like it did before the accident.

      Like

  15. Maybe this is oversimplifying but a brake failure could easily cause this. We know the limo had brake issues (ABS). The driver may have been going too fast, and a brake failure would have caused this +/-10,000 pound missile to sail right into that ditch coming to an almost immediate stop.

    Like

    • Maquis says:

      Possible, certainly. Lost brakes doing sixty downhill into a busy intersection without seatbelts myself. Survived, but quite broken in many ways, and getting much worse as time goes on. I did manage to avoid hitting anyone else, though now I would choose rearending someone rather than the unintended sudden stop of an eighteen-inch light pole. It’s all about how quickly the energy is dissipated, the vehicle’s and your own.

      Liked by 1 person

      • TheLastDemocrat says:

        I had a demanding day of driving a loaded rental van one day. Lots of stop and go, trying to make time. The brakes were a bit hot. I came north over Potomac on 395, on the downhill, and saw the light turn red.

        I was literally standing on the brake pedal and barely came to a stop just before the intersection. I gained respect for the mass of a vehicle, and for the need to keep brakes cool.

        Like

        • Maquis says:

          That generates a fair amount of terror. Glad you were able to stop.

          Liked by 1 person

        • KittyKat says:

          Was the intersection a busy intersection?

          Like

          • TheLastDemocrat says:

            in daytime hours, DC roads are always busy, to put it lightly.
            Speeds were not too high. If I had run the red light and gotten into intersection, cross traffic likely would have seen me coming, and stopped before hitting me, or hit me but not that hard.

            It was just a new,very scary experience for me to be in a vehicle without much control. Like a nightmare.

            Frankly, we should somehow teach kids what it is like to hydroplane, or skid on ice, including doing so with bald tires. [Now, when I was a teen driver, I loved sliding on turns, intentionally, with my bald tires – I got pretty good at it. This ability to control a fishtail and spin-out has come in handy once or twice along the way.]

            Like

      • _Jim says:

        re: “Lost brakes”

        I *think* the NTSB can figure this out … they will re-construct the accident vehicle in a garage and go over EVERYTHING with fine toothed-ed comb looking for pre-accident mechanical ‘things’ like burst brake lines or stuck-in-bore caliper pistons …

        Like

  16. imkittymyers says:

    Like

  17. Rick554 says:

    Hmmmmm. Another muslim

    Like

  18. Holly100 says:

    Here’s the limo driver’s gofundme.

    https://www.gofundme.com/68a0zs8

    Like

  19. Dora says:

    Today’s NY Post.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Moultrie Flag says:

    It is a little over the top to go “Terriorism” for me.

    It is physics. Take a 2001 Excursion, which is a beast, and double the weight by stretching it (if not more). Add another 3600lbs of cargo……to a 17 year old vehicle that isn’t known for it’s braking power stock, new.

    Known (to locals) very steep hill, coming a t-stop. Apparently even though many a big rig could not make the stop either, there is reportedly no warning that a stop sign is coming up.

    So you have a behemoth, probably not the best maintained ones, with an unlicensed driver doing at least 60mph and then tries to stop. NTSB reported no skid marks, but also noted that with ABS and the fact it was possible that the roadway was slightly damp?

    Full on dead stop drop into the mountainside. (Like Wolf has repeatedly tried to explain)

    The NTSB also reported that the impact was so severe the engine ( a huge diesel, with a transfer case and transmission broke through the driver’s compartment, and past the driver barrier into the rear passenger compartment.

    It appears that the stretched frame held (Always a concern when a vehicle’s frame is chopped), but with massive engine protrusion, no seatbelts?

    It isn’t a conspiracy that no one lived.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Maquis says:

      Agreed.

      Like

    • gildie says:

      If you go to google maps, street view, & travel path of limo, there is a speed limit sign (50),
      ‘T’ section sign, Stop ahead sign & route signs leading up to the intersection. Hard to tell, but it looks like a low angle decline leading up to the stop sign.
      So I think you about have it.
      Speed slowly increasing downhill to T-section, blows thru stop sign, ricochets off of a
      vehicle or two, than 7000-8000lbs of steel & flesh deadstop into ditch.
      God help us.

      Like

    • skeinster says:

      Thank you, Moultrie (and Wolf) for a voice of sense.
      Jumping on the “terrorism and conspiracy” train right out of the gate is risky.
      Because then you have to walk it back, when the more likely scenario proves to be true.

      Like

      • Peg_C the Deplorable says:

        These days, especially given the factors here (Pakistani, criminal, Muslim, FBI, the current Storm), it makes far more sense to think way beyond accident.

        Like

    • G. Combs says:

      “…there is reportedly no warning that a stop sign is coming up…..”

      Actually there is. I just checked it out on google street view.

      At the crest is a warning WITH FLAGS — Steep hill and then well before the intersection is a stop ahead sign. The road was pretty open without trees or bushes obstructing the signs.

      The inter4section is just off Interstate 88 so this LOCAL should have KNOWN the road.

      Liked by 1 person

  21. Deb says:

    Go fund me for the children orphaned by this accident. The grandparents of these children lost four daughters in the crash.

    https://www.gofundme.com/college-fund-for-archer-and-elle

    Like

  22. TheLastDemocrat says:

    I have been in a stretch limo once, that I can recall. The seats ran parallel to length of car, not perpendicular. We did not use seat belts. Local traffic, so no great speed. If we had hit something at speed, it would have been bad.

    Like

  23. Moultrie Flag says:

    It appears the cab of the truck is missing from the bolted on limo compartment.

    Like

    • wtd says:

      The NTSB on Schoharie crash:
      Extensive front damage most on left front of limousine.
      Engine pushed back into front of the car.
      “High energy impact.”

      Like

  24. usaproud7 says:

    May these dear souls RIP…….

    Liked by 1 person

  25. wtd says:

    Erin McGowan, who died alongside husband Shane, texted her aunt to say the limo was “in terrible condition”, Washington Post reports.

    It was brought in as a replacement for a bus they rented that had broken down.
    https://www.independentsentinel.com/2-secs-before-crash-killed-20-woman-texted-limo-is-in-terrible-condition/

    Like

  26. wtd says:

    Stepson reveals limo driver’s safety fears hours before he was one of 20 killed in horror crash

    Like

  27. Brian says:

    Given the background of the owner and driver there is suspicion. Add in the speed that the “govenor” used to get to the microphone and tell us what was to blame leads to the possibility of jihad by vehicle. Release more photos of scene and autopsy reports. Sorry it seems insensitive but given recent events.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Doc Moore says:

    20 People killed, 18 of them inside the limo. HOW does that happen? All the BS about the driver’s record and the vehicle failing inspection…nonsense and at best unrelated to the actual cause of death. We are not given many views of the vehicle, but it appears to have fairly minimal damage, and that would be consistent with the described accident. You’d expect the front to be smashed enough to kill the driver, but how can the bodies of 20 people not create enough cushioning (think human airbags) to prevent the deaths of several occupants. WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL CAUSE OF DEATH for those 18 people? If that has been stated, I’ve missed it.

    Like

  29. G. Combs says:

    “…For-hire drivers in the state of New York will need to obtain a Class E driver’s license to operate taxis, limousines, and some vans…

    NY Commercial Driver’s License (CDL)

    Some vehicles and driving professions will require you to hold a commercial driver’s license (CDL). Whether you’ll need to apply for a Class A, B, or C CDL depends on a number of factors, including:

    The number of axles and/or weight of the vehicle.
    The number of passengers the vehicle is able to transport.
    Whether or not you will be transporting hazardous materials.

    Here are a few vehicles that commonly require a CDL:

    Tractor trailers.
    Passenger buses.
    Tankers.
    School buses….

    Class E License

    For-hire drivers in the state of New York will need to obtain a Class E driver’s license to operate taxis, limousines, and some vans….”

    https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/special-licenses.php

    New York state should have yanked the driver’s Class E License. If he was driving WITHOUT a class E licence the Limo service is in very deep Kimshee.

    Like

  30. SharkFL says:

    Was it a CHLORINE GAS BOMB? This article says it was > http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index2679.htm

    Liked by 1 person

    • Deb says:

      It’s a fake news bomb.

      Have more respect for the victims. Plenty of evidence that it was a dangerous intersection and a faulty vehicle combined with lack of seat belts.

      Car crashes kill.

      Like

      • SharkFL says:

        Plenty of evidence that it was not a crash. Pictures show no broken windows or major catastrophic damage to the vehicle. The background on the limo owner is highly suspect. Expand your thinking. Not everything happens the way the media feeds it to you.

        Like

  31. G. Combs says:

    We have a small weekend business. I drive all over eastern NC pulling a trailer. I KNOW the roads. I KNOW where it is safe to do 55MPH. I KNOW where that stop sign is at the bottom of a hill (covered by a tree). I even know where the side streets pop out onto RT 42 at the bottom of a hill.

    This driver is a NATIVE. There is NO WAY in HADES he would not be very familiar with that intersection of state routes 30 and 30A in the town of Schoharie. It is right near Interstate 88 so he would travel it quite often.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. TakeBackOurRepublic says:

    There are just no words for this tragedy. May God give strength to the loved ones left behind.

    Like

  33. the ruester says:

    This reminds me of the Dale Earnhardt crash. To the untrained eye it seemed non fatal, but a computer analysis showed that the rate rate of deceleration would have proven fatal to ANYONE not wearing the new device. 20 dale’s, snapped necks, no lacerations.

    Liked by 2 people

  34. George Hicks says:

    Here’s a thought for comparison –
    If the limo was traveling at just 42 mph when it hit an immovable object (the ditch), the impact would be equivalent to a person jumping off a 60 foot building.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. wtd says:

    #Scoop: Blasey Ford’s FBI friend worked on case setting would be terrorist with Owner of Limousine company that killed 20ppl! https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/953.pdf

    Liked by 2 people

  36. Super Elite says:

    Twenty killed in an intact-looking “wrecked” vehicle? I knew there had to be aliens involved who don’t hold to American standards. Or maybe just social justice warriors who encourage and facilitate them.

    Like

  37. Anon says:

    Investigators say accident may be a terrorist act. No accident of that minor damage would cause head trauma of all 18 passengers. Suspect passengers were all dead before accident using a chlorine bomb.
    Impiousdigest.com

    Like

  38. Anon says:

    Limo owner a suspected terrorist who was also paid by the FBI to point out other terrorists in the USA. He took a plane to Pakistan one day before the accident. Investigators believe the “accident” was not such but was caused by a chlorine bomb. Impiousdigest.com

    Like

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