Trayvon Martin – The Heart Of The Agenda – Exposing The REAL Family Motive in the words of their attorney…..

“We are not asking that he [Zimmerman] be convicted; We are asking that he be arrested”

-Benjamin Crump Esq.
Attorney for Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fuller
(Quoted to Piers Morgan on 4/3/2012)

And there you have it, the ulterior motive, the hidden agenda:

MONEY !

The Trayvon family is not seeking justice in the form you would think. No, they are seeking monetary justice, or more directly monetary gain. THAT is the motivation; and the absence of an “arrest” is what stands between them and their ability to sue in civil court”.

Ask yourself why would anyone want an arrest without a conviction?

“We are not asking that he be convicted; We are asking that he be arrested”

Why is that so important?

The answer can be found in the statutes of Florida law surrounding Justifiable Use Of Force (Statute 776) which outlines in Statute 776.032

Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force:

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

Note that in section 2 of the immunity statute 776.032 a person is “immune” from criminal or CIVIL action if they are not arrested. The arrest itself can be interpreted as “Probable Cause” the force, or action taken, was unlawful.

Remember the key distinction between guilt or innocence in Criminal vs. Civil trials. In criminal trials the burden of proof is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. In civil trials the burden of proof is “with a preponderance of the existing evidence”; this is where probable cause comes into play. For the purpose of “monetary justice” it only takes an arrest; a subsequent conviction is not necessary.

Without an arrest there is no standing for a civil case awarding monetary damages to Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fuller against George Zimmerman, the HOA for The Retreat At Twin Lakes, and possibly the City of Sanford and all of their respective insurance companies.

Daryl Parks and Benjamin Crump

Without an arrest there is no implied probable cause which could lead to Compensatory and punitive damages for wrongful death.

They need an arrest. They DO NOT need a conviction.

The other approach to a monetary victory would be a “Federal” civil rights investigation and possible arrest on federal civil rights laws. Hence a better understanding of why attorney Benjamin Crump is fabricating information to the Federal Department of Justice. In the letter to the DOJ Crump said:

“We look forward to your thorough and comprehensive review of the suspicious circumstances surrounding this meeting, and the decision to disregard the recommendation to arrest Zimmerman”

In response State Attorney Norm Wolfinger released a statement on Monday saying he is “outraged by the outright lies” contained in a letter written by the attorney of Trayvon Martin’s parents, who are seeking a federal review in the case.

You can see how valuable the compassion of Washington DC power people can be in the engagement of the goal. Indeed many people wondered why Congressional members called a hearing into this one case. Perhaps “who” coordinated the hearing is the clarity needed in understanding the “why”, for at the heart of the conversation is the Congressional Black Caucus. Anyone remember the CBC and the victory called Pigford?

Successfully using the office of the President and Eric Holder’s DOJ to “leverage” a chosen outcome is, well, smart racial politics. Especially when there is a strong possibility of favorable public opinion driven by a misguided, and more than willing water-carrying media, to benefit the Oval Office.

Before Martin’s death, Crump was best known for representing the parents of a teenage boy who died after an encounter with guards at a Florida boot camp in 2006. The videotaped beating of Martin Lee Anderson attracted national attention and led to the closure of the state’s boot camps for juvenile offenders.

Benjamin Crump and his law partner, Daryl Parks, who testified at a congressional hearing on Capitol Hill, are Tallahassee-based personal injury attorneys who primarily handle wrongful death and negligence cases.

In a Huffington Post interview Ben Crump dodges the question of how, and if, he is being compensated by Trayvon Martin’s parents. “You do it because it’s the right thing to do,” he said. “As long as you make your goal to do right and do good, all of the money and financial material stuff will come”.

Beyond the reality of financial gain and self-interest there is even a more troubling consideration when you weigh the extent they are willing to go to for money. The flames of racial tension have been stoked to a white-hot inferno in Sanford Florida, and arguably quite hot around the nation.

The team at Breitbart picked up on the connection between the Trayvon Martin case and the Martin Lee Anderson case with an article a few days ago where they cited some analysis done by the Miami Herald. One key phrase in the Breitbart column was:

The Herald failed to note one other similarity: the controversy over the victim’s death has little to do with the actual guilt or motives of the accused killer.

I doubt Breitbart actually knew at that moment how insightful that small paragraph actually is regarding the real motivation here; And therein lies the heart of the matter for Benjamin Crump, Daryl Parks, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fuller.

The guilt or motives of the accused Mr. Zimmerman matter naught when weighed against the need for a compensatory judgement to fill their void.

“We are not asking that he be convicted; We are asking that he be arrested” – Ben Crump

Indeed.

This entry was posted in media bias, Predictions, Racism, Trayvon Martin, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

145 Responses to Trayvon Martin – The Heart Of The Agenda – Exposing The REAL Family Motive in the words of their attorney…..

  1. cjmartel says:

    Sweet tap dancing Christ, that photo is a professional shoot!! These assholes will stop at nothing to drive their murderous racist agenda. This whole episode has been driven by racists like sharpton and jackson, marxist media, and the f^%#@ng president no less!!! These bigotted jerks won’t be happy until they start a race war!

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  2. Hurricane season (June 1-November 30) should wash a lot of this crap out of Florida.

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  3. Aoife says:

    Please please please let GZ go after these assholes (maybe not the family directly though, although it’s becoming more obvious they are creeps too) and make them pay for their irresponsible and unethical behavior.

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  4. yoy50 says:

    Bang up article! Really!! I believe I read it here first, “the parents weren’t notified of their child’s death for 3 days because they couldn’t be located (I know I read that somewhere) and they hadn’t even filed a missing person’s report”! That’s more telling than any ‘evidence’ that’s surfaced since.

    And why is anybody in their right mind listening to “The Reverend” Jesse (had a baby out of wedlock) Jackson?! His cred was lost eons ago! lol

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    • James says:

      yoy50, you would have thought Jesse’s credibility would have went out the window when he smeared Martin Luther King Jr.’s blood all over him and pretended like he was there when he got assassinated. Which is probably one of the most deplorable things I have ever heard in my life, but NOPE. The black community just loves those race bating, lying, phony pieces of shit.

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  5. sillyMSM says:

    Guess the trademarking of Trayvon’s name wasn’t lucrative enough…

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  6. yoy50 says:

    BTW, I happen to think Zimmerman did utter “coons” and not GOONS in the dispatch audio tapes. I’ve known covert racists (the ones who think deep down that we are less than human) and they are just like that O’Jay’s song; “Backstabbers”. They tolerate us but they really don’t like black folks. The likely scenario between their encounter is a cooky, young thug in the making confronted a man and the kid didn’t realize he had a gun. Pop goes the weasel and the weasel goes pop!

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    • stellap says:

      Since you believe that George Zimmerman is a racist, why do you think he went to all of that trouble to defend that black homeless man against the Sanford police, even organizing a community meeting about it, handing out flyers etc? That doesn’t sound like the acts of a racist to me.

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      • yoy50 says:

        Fair enough. Notice I said; “covert racist”? They don’t know they harbor these feelings until faced with a situation that brings it to surface. I’m not negating the fact that Zimm did good things in and for the Black community BUT, “coons” is not an inaudible recording in that tape. The ‘c’ is definitely pronounced to sound like “k”.

        Adrenalin produces all kinds of things when excited or fearful but I think I might have simply stated; ‘fucking thieves’ (since there had been a rash of burglaries in their community) or something to that affect especially realizing that I’m ON THE PHONE with police dispatch. I think he spoke from his “heart” in the heat of that crisis. But that’s just me.😉

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    • sillyMSM says:

      He didn’t say “coons” or “goons”. He said “f’ing cold”. Listen to the new video put out by CNN, the same network that originally claimed he said “coons” as they are backtracking.

      http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2012/04/05/ac-tuchman-zimmerman-audio-enhanced.cnn

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      • yoy50 says:

        CNN? Really? Aren’t they part of “the big 6”?(http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/5-things-everyone-should-know-like-seriously/) Okay. Well if he said ‘fucking cold’ that makes absolutely no sense considering Florida is mostly a warm climate area even during the winter months; http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/sanford-fl/32771/february-weather/332328

        And I hope Zurich is not referring to my comment but just in case; I’d be the last person to claim that all non-blacks are racist. It’s actually funny to be accused of that sort of nonsense. Grew up with everyone but my own kind until much later in life (much, much later too). I simply feel that there’s no way to skirt around what he clearly said. And a correction to this comment; he wasn’t in a “crisis” at the time he made that comment as he was only following him… way before the confrontation, struggle and the gun was fired…

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        • sillyMSM says:

          Great point, Florida is a mostly warm climate area which is why low 60’s is cold for us Floridians. People here break out the winter coats in that kind of weather.

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          • Ms.Tee says:

            I’ve seen girls in fur and Uggh boots in the 60’s. No joke. LOL. I can only laugh since I’ve lived in cold weather climates before. But to the native Floridian, that kind of weather is akin to sub-freezing temps.:)

            However, I will note this: I was in central Florida several weeks back and it was indeed cold and chilly. I wore a small sweater or jacket each day I was there. So, yes, it does get cold in the state.

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          • yoy50 says:

            Okay. Fair enough. It’s the first time the thought was brought up as far as I’m aware. But for the record, I lived in a climate much like Florida so when I see 69 degrees for a high that day and factor in that damn humidity and dew point I get; “feels more like 77 degrees”. I too lived in a place where if it was 65 degrees, they wanted to wear their winter clothes sooo bad, they were sweating at house parties in their brand new (sweaty) leather jackets! Priceless.

            I loathe the stereotype that all black folks like the heat. I always say, you can layer up if you’re cold but butt naked is still friggin hot! 😉

            @ g8rmom7– I now can hear that 2 words instead of 1 was uttered prior to the ‘coon’ possibility. I listened to quite a few and this is first I’ve heard with very clear, loud audio of that call;( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyucguFVfoY&feature=related) Just like ABC first aired the video at the police station, they hid the marks on his bald head by the Chyron– clearly, deception abounds.

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            • barnslayer says:

              Cold is in the bones of the beholder. I was in Israel in ’77 July. The temp. dropped down to about 75F. The people in the hotel lobby were wearing sweaters and had the heat on.

              Now to the cold VS coon. It’s fine to try theorizing Zimmerman’s state of mind and his possibly preexisting biases. However, he did not initiate physical contact. Whatever was said is really just a distraction. Unless it could be proven that Martin feared for his life due to threats from Zimmerman, his actions were unwarranted. If he had not attacked he would be alive.

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        • Aoife says:

          It was raining and unseasonably chilly here that night. It does get cold here (I know people north of here are laughing at that statement) but it’s true. It’s not always tropical or sub-tropical. In January 2010 and 2011 it dipped in to the low thirties (F) for 10 days and the citrus growers were terrified. It’s what you get used to though. If you’re used to it being in the 80’s and it’s 45-50 or so, that’s COLD. Hubby used to live in the Quad Cities and he said after a few weeks of below 0, people were wearing shorts and t shirts when it was in the 30s.

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          • Aussie says:

            Aoife, see my other comment. This also happened in the winter of 1984/85 when the citrus growers thought they would lose the crop to frost. I was in the USA that year and it was “f cold”.

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          • tnwahm says:

            I can attest to that fact. Most of my extended family lives in Michigan. I had some cousins that lived in Minnesota. I remember one Christmas when we were all at my grandparents and my cousins from MN were rolling up their pants. It was in the 30’s. When your mom checks whether you can play outside by pouring a glass of water to the ground and if it’s not frozen when it lands, you can play outside, 30’s is a heat wave.

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            • Aussie says:

              well….. being from Australia and all… and never having experienced cold like that… at -28F…. we never get that cold!!….. I can attest that when the temperature went back up to about 17F (which is still below zero in Celcius) my husband was in a t-shirt, and then washed the car… as you can easily guess…. he ended up icing the windscreen….:)

              Honestly it is exactly what happened and that was in the winter of 1984-85 (around February)… then in March we had the blizzard.

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        • solaratov says:

          From your link…..

          February 26 official low temp.: 52 degrees,

          Kind of chilly for Florida.

          (btw…it’s 52 today where I am in Missouri — and I have a fire going.
          Jus’ sayin’. )

          👿

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          • yoy50 says:

            Awe… come on! And 52 was the overnight not at 7pm that evening. But I’ve added the comment to the weather factor so it’s cool in the gang!😉

            Good to know he may not have said that after all because I too read about his good deeds.

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        • Aussie says:

          well yoy50, you can be wrong about Florida being mostly a warm climate.

          Let me, an Australian tell you something because this happened in the winter of 1984-85. Not only did Fairborn Ohio reach a record low of -28F just to turn it on for the Aussies, but in Florida they had a problem with the icy cold getting at their citrus trees.

          Also, what you do not comprehend is that people acclimatise to their conditions. I will use Townsville Australia as the example. In the dry season, which is during the winter months it is warm by the standards of those from the southern states. In fact it was warm enough to swim in a heated pool at 6.00 am. However, to the locals it was cold and they were wearing sweaters!!

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      • g8rmom7 says:

        And in the discussion about saying “F’in cold” he may not have been saying it as “gee, the weather sure is cold tonight”…I took it as he was saying “f’in cold” as in that is harsh or wrong as he probably assumed this guy was the burglar that had been canvasing the neighborhood for weeks. That’s just MY guess though as I have no proof.

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    • ZurichMike says:

      Here we go again. Such a droll, almost breezy way of parroting Critical Race Theory. Why don’t you just come out and say “all non-blacks are always racists, and can never be anything but racists, and this trumps any bad actions, lawbreaking, stupidity, and thuggery of blacks in general, and of Trayvon “No Limit Nigga” Martin in particular”?

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    • James says:

      I guess you haven’t heard that enhanced tape surfaced and he said neither “goon” or “coon,” he said “cold.”

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  7. ZurichMike says:

    Thank you for doing the work the NFM (non-Fox media) won’t.

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  8. Gino says:

    Toy50, it is evident that you have a capacity to reach within a mans soul and project his thought processes and motivation. This I find very interesting as there is no science to substantiate your position.I also find your derogatory remark pertaining to ” coons “offensive an unsubstantiated.The verification of this is that the mainstream media has now retracted it’s comments pertaining to racial slurs being exhibited within the tape and now states said tape where altered.The follow up to this is they have apologized and are launching an internal investigation.

    Furthermore, I dispute your claim that Mr. Zimmerman is a racist based on several factors foremost being he is defined as a minority,secondly he is well respected by the black community living in his gated community and note to you many refer to him as their friend.Obviously, that little bit of information would not persuade you so what will it take? Do you know that he was a community organizer in the Black community? Do you know that he helped organize for and on behalf of the NAACP? Do you know that he was well known to the leadership of the NAACP in defending the rights of the black community? Obviously, he must be a racist wait let’s go back to science.It is known that the habits of man are predictable in stressful situations and how one will react is based on previous experiences.Thus, like a moth drawn to a flame Mr. Zimmerman would not project and/or perform any action that would be construed as racist toward Trayvon, yet we cannot determine that Trayvon was not committing a hate crime towards Mr. Zimmerman.

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    • ZurichMike says:

      Well said, Gino. I think, however, that the poster to whom you refer is just another ordinary leftist site-pest who has come aboard trying to muddy the waters again, under the left’s mantra: when you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls___.

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    • yoy50 says:

      Dude, you’re late.

      Zurich… stop stirring a cold pot.
      😉

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      • Gino says:

        Zurich, it would seem that the poster doesn’t like you and probably is not to fond of me either.I can well imagine your anguish over this, your day is probably ruined. NOT!

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      • ZurichMike says:

        Oh, it’s Stevie under another name! Such a cute dog photo, too! To what, exactly, are you referring by “stirring a cold pot”? Oh, never mind. Your MO is always to throw things at the fan and see what sticks to the wall afterward. Your holier-than-thou story of racial understanding (1) tries to make us look like we don’t understand, and (2) puts you in a higher moral ground.

        Typical bob-and-weave leftist nonsense.

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        • stellap says:

          Not Steven, either.

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        • yoy50 says:

          Wow! I like site but I’m not sure about a few of the commenters here. Considering this was my first time commenting on this site, I’m stunned. May well be the last time I comment too (note to administrator).😉

          What I’m gathering is that people read the comments they want and the flow of dialogue appears to get lost. Zur & Aus seem to be instigators. Either that or they simply can’t read. The issue died several postings up yet they seem to keep beating that same dead horse. I know I don’t speak in terms of left OR right because they are all part of the same bullshit ass production called “politics”. I don’t fuck with that charade anymore. I only wanted to get into whether or not he utter that word and that, AGAIN was resolved several postings up. Moral ground? Bob and weave? Excuse me for being so blunt but… WHAT THA FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Them there are shill tactics if you ask me. Or better known as a waste of time DISTRACTION!

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          • stellap says:

            Please watch your language. I think the reason why things seem disjointed at times is that people don’t refresh the browser and, therefore, sometimes they don’t see answers that have been posted in the meantime.

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          • stellap says:

            Also, it is immaterial to most of us what you think about our posters. They have been with us for – literally – years.

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          • barnslayer says:

            “….better known as a waste of time DISTRACTION!”

            What’s that saying about the pot calling the kettle something?

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          • ZurichMike says:

            It’s Good Friday, yoy50, and the mask has slipped a lot, revealing you to be just another drive-by leftist, a mean-spirited, morally vacuous, factually challenged, angry thug. Go back to your friend at HuffPo.

            And offer up your anger and vulgarity as sin offering.

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            • yoy50 says:

              This is a reply to all underneath this comment:

              Watch my language? Is this your site? Bug off with that! The difference is I spelled it out. Others used profanity as well but I speak English not internet speak. Glad you like these two readers because I think they could use a stiff drink.

              Again with that leftist crap? HuffPo? Again– what the fuck are you talking about? Clearly you are an antagonist and yes– a waste of time. Either I’m speaking Dolphin clicks or the comprehension is at a base level between you guys.

              Celebrate your Pagan traditions all you want– that means you’ve been mesmerized and are still sleep walking through reality.

              And how is it ‘anger’ when each comment I offered had a smiley face? You guys more than likely still think the Federal Reserve is part of the government. Idiots.

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              • ZurichMike says:

                A smiley face? Wow. I guess that makes you an angel. Oops, you’re an atheist, it appears, so that can’t be right either.

                If you haven’t noticed, this is a conservative site where virtually everyone is Christian. I am surprised someone who is apparently smarter than us on things political and spiritual would waste his/her time here.

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              • yoy50 says:

                @ WeeWeed… Ah… hush up with that rhetoric. Educate yourselves if you dare:

                http://worldtruth.tv/pagan-origin-of-easter/

                It’s ironic… the site offers some really good points but it’s readers are less than critical thinkers. Good luck to you all while you remain in your small, limited bubbles. Your ‘thinking’ will lead to “ass-merica’s” © demise (as it’s been planned for more than 100 years).

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              • Aussie says:

                you really are one extremely spiteful dude…. the comments you made above show a spitefulness that is totally stunning.

                As Catholics we do not have pagan traditions… and only some idiot from one of those fake denominations would dare make such a ludicrous comment.

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              • stellap says:

                Actually, it IS our site. I am a moderator, and I will tell you what we expect. The only reason why that comment appeared is because I allowed it to appear. You were in the moderation queue because of your language. Watch it.

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          • Aussie says:

            what utter BS……

            I am not an instigator you idiot.

            I am in a different time zone and I comment when I am online…. plus I recounted precisely what happened when I was living in the USA in 1984-85…. Florida had a cold snap which caused the citrus growers to be concerned about their crops. That is what I remember because in Ohio where I was living there was also a record cold day!!

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            • Aussie, when Yoyo suggests that you don’t know how to read, I wonder if he means that you can’t read English? Or Australian? Or do they speak “Austrian” there? I forget. 😉

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              • Aussie says:

                We read in Australian….:)

                I have not got a clue about Austrian because I have never seen it written down…. and my German is non-existent!! :)

                Yoyo was an idiiot, he made certain insinuations and he was wrong about what he was saying. I pointed out the obvious example, the one that I experienced that shows that those things are relative…. and that when people are acclimatised what is cold for one person is not cold for another person…. that was my experience in Townsville when I was so amused to see the locals walking around in sweaters when for us it was not all that cold!!

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                • True. True. Wait, you know that they speak German in Austria? That makes you smarter than our idiot pResident. Somehow, I’m not surprised. And that’s really not much of a compliment. I’m sure you’re actually MUCH smarter than our idiot-in-chief. 😉

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  9. Krystal says:

    I cannot believe that you racist idiots on this site want people to believe that the the Martin’s rather have money than their 17 year old son! Their child is in a cold grave, and he is not coming back, ever! And, clearly justice has not been served! When the Martin’s said that they are not asking for a conviction, but an arrest; this means that they want GZ arrested for murdering their son, and if then a jury decides that GZ is innocent then they’ll have had their day in court, and justice for their son. But in the mean time, GZ walks free, and every body knows (or should know) that you cannot get a possible conviction until a person is first arrested. Please tell me you all are smarter than this?! With what I’ve read, many of you sound like backwoods Gumps. Your statements and even this article is ridiculous, but I read it any to keep abreast of how you clowns think, and to keep track of what you’re saying when you think know one is listening, watching, and knows who you are. It’s people like you that will cause a race war with your (bassackwards) thinking! Notice, how I spelled ass backwards? An overwhelming portion of you on this blog are real idiots, and I’ll include the author. Please know that all non-white races know how you feel about them, and please believe me when I tell you that they don’t care! However, please know that there will be a special type of hell waiting for people like you, and it enlarges itself daily so that it can accept you, unlike you have done for other people.

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    • Aoife says:

      Take a deep breath Krystal and think. If someone killed your son, you’d want a conviction. An arrest means nothing. It makes no sense whatsoever to demand an arrest with no conviction. Also, there is no probable cause to arrest. Right now, we don’t live in a third world shithole where whoever’s in charge makes the rules. The mob doesn’t make law and ‘everyone’ doesn’t know. As for GZ, he’s hardly walking around free. He is in hiding because of death threats, of which Mohammed from the new terrorist arm of the Democrat party–the NBPP, should be arrested forthwith since he’s clearly violated, on camera, two Florida statutes referencing threats, intimidation, and kidnapping. But I digress. There is nothing about this case which falls out of line with similar cases. Prosecutors have a higher standard of probable cause than cops. That’s why they didn’t order the arrest that night. They want more investigation. Simple as that. So stop the insults because by that you only prove yourself incapable of logic and reason. If there is a hell it will be filled with mendacious liars like Jackson, Sharpton, and others who’d rather have a nice payday at the expense of the innocent. Simply screeching the tired rhetoric and obfuscations originating from the Martin camp and propagated widely by the echo chamber media still doesn’t make it true.

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      • Gino says:

        Krystal, let us revert to the legal precepts of law as the primary basis for one to be arrested and charged and more specifically Florida state laws.Would you be so kind as to identify and clarify under what statute Mr. Zimmerman should be arrested?When addressing same please do not provide your opinion but state same as a fact and then the reason you believe you have a viable argument.

        I would also like it if you would clarify the information contained in the coroners examination inclusive of toxicological findings entrance and exit wounds angle of weapon when discharged and all related blood splatter. In preparing this report it is important to know what organs were also impacted by the bullets discharge and also identify any and all bruising.It would also be helpful if you could provide forensic pictures relevant to the requested information. Continuing it would also be helpful if you could provide all information relevant to the weapon used and any and all testing performed on the weapon.

        It would also be helpful if you would provide the transcript from the five hour interview of Mr. Zimmerman on the night of the incident.Furthermore, the walk thru of the crime scene on the night of the incident and the follow up walk thru by and amongst the detectives and Mr. Zimmerman the following day..Please keep in mind when preparing this report it is necessary to include all police reports , transcripts of conversations and anything at all of minor relevance to this case and/or pertinent We next will require the cell phone and land line records of all parties ( Mr.Zimmerman, Mr& Mrs. Martin, Mr.Martins girlfriend, her son, Trayvon,Trayvons girlfriend and there friends)

        Will you next provide complete medical history of Trayvon inclusive of any neurological difficulties he may have been diagnosed with. This information will be inclusive of any MRI’s and/or cat scans he may have had and their results..In due course please provide the assessments of medical staff on the scene pertaining to Mr. Zimmerman inclusive of treatment. We will require the complete medical history of Mr. Zimmerman which shall include recent treatment for lacerations noted abrasions and fractures.All doctors reports will be relevant and must be provided.

        We will next require the previous arrest records of both Mr. Zimmerman and Trayvon.Furthermore, we will require all school records of Trayvon unsealed and presented in original format.

        I can continue on in this vane but believe you are intelligent enough to understand that there is an exstendive amount of investigating and research required prior to making any arrest unless there is the preverbial smoking gun in evidence. Arrests, are based on evidence and a reasonable expectation that there is a culparable party whom has demionstrated an intent to inflict bodily injury.

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    • Aussie says:

      If Martin had not attempted to get the gun he would be alive today. The thug was beating up Zimmerman, that is why he is dead.

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    • Aussie says:

      Krystal the only idiot on this thread is you…. because you are ranting and raving and you have not read one single word that shows that the Martins are avaricious type of people.

      Who, when they are grieving over the loss of a child would trademark that name?

      I have seen what can happen when parents are grieving for children who die as a result of murder… it happened to my female first cousin who was kidnapped, raped and murdered. My uncle and aunt ended up as alcoholics…and it was a bad situation for other members of the family.

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    • Michell says:

      Krystal, Zimmerman was arrested the night of the shooting. He was not charged because they did not have the evidence to charge him. If they had that evidence, do you not think they would charge him?
      I feel for his family, but I have to ask where was his family the night he was shot? Where were they the next day? If my son left to go to the store and didn’t come back, I’d be trying to find him.
      Why would you trademark your son’s name? How could a parent even think of such a thing when their child is dead? I would be a basket case myself.

      Like

      • solaratov says:

        No. Zimmermann was not arrested the night of the shooting. He merely went to the police station to give a statement. Then, the next day, he went with the police to do a “walkthrough” of what happened the night before.
        AT NO TIME was Zimmermann “under arrest”.
        If he had been, the parents’ lawyer would be a happy man – even if George had been released. Then, he’d have a toehold for a civil suit – and a shot at the big bucks.

        👿

        Like

        • Michell says:

          Sorry where I come from when you’re put in handcuffs, loaded into the back of a police car and hauled to the police station you are arrested.
          I have many family members in LE and when someone is just taken in for questioning they are not handcuffed. Now there is a difference between being arrested and charged.
          Even his attorneys said last night that he was arrested and pointed to the same police video.
          They need him charged with a crime for a civil suit, not just arrested. That is what they mean when they say arrested, they want him charged with something, anything so they can sue.

          Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      I love seeing a leftist in “negotiating” phase of faux grief. First it’s denial, then anger. Having been thwarted at both, the leftist moves on to the next phase. “Well, if we can’t convict (yet), we’ll just arrest (even though there is no legal or factual basis yet), allowing the “distraught” parents — who pay more attention to their son now that he’s dead then they did when he was alive — to cash in under Florida law.

      Thanks for stopping by, Krystal! It’s always nice to see that leftists have nothing better to do than post silly things on sites they would not normally visit. Thanks for the name-calling (backwoods Gumps, clowns, idiots).

      More flak from the left means we are over the target. It’s a military reference discussed previously.

      Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      Stevie has a *second* fake account! Wow! Truly nothing better to do with his/her/its time.

      Like

  10. James says:

    Krystal,

    I think you have something wrong. “All” non white races don’t know how I (we) feel about them, because for the most part, I have no problems with any other races. Now, if you want to talk black, and how I view the black community, I view them as the biggest racists on the planet. They hate white people, and I hate them. There is no reason to sugarcoat it. Everyday I read articles about people being murdered, robbed, raped, and beaten. With stores being flash mobbed on a bi-weekly basis. And guess what? Almost inevitably it is BLACKS. And no, this isn’t media bias, because the media is to the point where blacks have complained so much that they don’t even mention that it’s blacks who committed said crimes. It’s a given! And all you have to do is a little bit of research in EVERY one of the articles, and walla! It’s a black dude, or dudes. Actually, usually dudes, because those thugs are too afraid to act alone usually. Isn’t that amazing? Hell, just wait, you will read another story today, or the next couple days involving blacks (most likely a group of thugs) doing something really terrible, most likely against someone white. I promise you. It’s coming, and I will be sure to post it. If the site administrator doesn’t get to it first.

    Like

  11. steven campbell says:

    James, i wont disagree with you that there are unique issues that need to be addressed with a lot of black youth. But i would say to you that there are a fair number of white thugs also. I have had equipment stolen out of my garage in broad daylight by a bunch of white men, Their is also violent white on white crime everyday. Our country was practically destroyed by the greed and corruption that is rampant in wallstreet (Primarily White Crime). It cut the hearts out of many innocent folks, They might as well have been beat up and left bleeding on the street, the end result is much the same. I think that at the heart of all of this there is a lack of values and morality that effects many and cuts across all racial lines. It just rears its head in different ways depending on certain cultural variables, Crime is Crime and it is rampant across racial lines. I have black friends who are hard working, honorable americans and I think its so easy to get caught up in the hype that good apples get thrown in with the bad.

    Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      Oh, my, he’s baaaaaaaack! (1) With another hopelessly inane moral equivalency argument, which can be condensed as “There are crimes committed by whites, too, so that negates the fact that the country pays more attention to blacks being killed by whites than by the overwhelming majority of blacks who are killed by other blacks”. (2) The red herring, faux economic argument — what exactly is the relation of people on Wall Street to a thug in Sanford, who has not availed himself of education or example to achieve? (3) Taking the moral high ground and blaming all of this on “certain cultural variables”, which suggests that all cultures are equal (like cultures governed by women-stoning, gay-hanging Sharia law, I suppose) and which sugarcoats the black culture’s acceptance of, among other things, single mothers, irresponsible men, and rap music glorifying violence against women, whites, and law enforcement. (4) Trying to level the playing field by saying “crime is crime” without noting the detail that blacks are far more likely to die from other blacks than from whites. (5) The racist / racial trump card: “I have black friends who are hard working”. Gee, that makes you an expert on what, exactly?

      Nice try, Stevie!

      Like

  12. James says:

    Steven,

    You make some really excellent points. I never said that there wasn’t a large amount of white thugs, as that would be a very ignorant statement. I am speaking as a whole, in this country. It’s not even my opinion anymore, you can look at the rates of violent acts, and who they are committed by. You can look at the overwhelming amount of people in our prisons. You can read the papers everyday and the shocking amount of crimes there are, and just who they are committed by. Like I said, the papers and news outlets half the time don’t even report that certain crimes are committed by blacks, and it’s not because it’s a given, it’s because they don’t want to look racist, even in the face of reality. How ridiculous is that? This is unfortunately not hype, this is for real. And I hope one day it changes, but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

    Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      James,

      Steven is a site pest/troll who is only on this site to muddy the waters, distract us, and add more noise to the otherwise untenable position of the left.

      Like

      • James says:

        ZurichMike,

        He made a couple of good points, and sometimes I need someone to bring me back down because I do get so angry at blacks for the crap that is going on right now. However, everyone knows that there are white thugs, and I never said any different. But that certainly doesn’t distract from the mass of stories of black, violent crime. And now with Jesse opening up his hole again, and basically inciting more violence against whites, I am sure we will continue to hear stories of gangs of black youth beating up the elderly handicapped, women, and like packs of wolves, descending on those who are incapable of defending themselves. My question is, where are the black people who are “good” and “wholesome” and have families with morals and values? I am not hearing a ONE speak out against the violence that is happening to whites because of this Trayvon deal. Not to mention that Zimmerman isn’t even Caucasion. The whole thing makes me sick.

        Like

        • Menagerie says:

          James, when you swing as wide a loop as the left, you make the same mistake they do. I will not reiterate how many wonderful black people have enriched my life, nor will I re-list those in the public who serve us and command respect. Once long ago, I had a conflict with a black woman, IMO, she was quite crazy and she truly attempted to destroy my family because she felt she had been insulted because my children were not allowed in her home because it was not a safe environment. For several years, I truly hated her, and I allowed that hatred to spill over and color my opinion of blacks. Gradually I beat that hatred because of the church I attend. There are many blacks, hispanics, and various other races, all ages, a very vibrant parish, alive with all types of people. Very gradually, I looked around at the friends I had attended mass with for years, and realized they were praying for me, they were there with me, loving me through Christ and the sacrifice of the mass. They were and are my brothers and sisters.

          I have no use for the likes of Jesse Jackson, and the various race baiters, and I acknowledge that they do not care for the facts in the Zimmerman case. Please do not use their tactics and paint with a broad brush. It would be a mistake for you to fall into this trap.

          You must also realize that while we all seek the truth on this site, we are not a racist site, and we will not present ourselves that way.

          Like

          • James says:

            Menagerie, like I have said before, I absolutely don’t think ALL blacks are bad people. I was asking a legitimate question, where are the black people to speak out against what is obviously becoming a reason for black youth to assault whites? Or carry on endlessly about whites (not like that wasn’t happening before)? Also, I am definitely not attempting to recruit people to be racist with me. Most of you seem intelligent enough to have your own thoughts without anyone trying to steer it a different way. We need to make that clear. I am certainly more fed up with this garbage than most people, I see that. I don’t think my question is an outlandish one, at all. Just once, I want to hear someone black, of some sort of clout denounce what is going on, and speak out against the crap that Jesse and Al keep blowing up black people’s behinds. That doesn’t make me racist. Other views I have make me racist, that’s for sure.

            Like

            • barnslayer says:

              James, you said are not judging all blacks as bad.. that’s fine. But you also shouldn’t judge all whites as willing victims. Lots of us know what’s going on and are doing what we can to defend against it. The whites that don’t are the liberals. They deny the problem. All of them except for the white liberals in power. They cry out against gun violence and racism while they themselves are insulated with armed bodyguards.

              Like

        • Aussie says:

          the people who attempted to attack my FIL in NYC were not Middle Eastern, not Hispanic, not white, and that leaves……

          Like

  13. James says:

    Wow, no sooner did I write that you wouldn’t have to wait that long for yet ANOTHER story to surface about blacks killing whites, that it happened. Here it is. And no, I am not going to continue to post stories about blacks killing whites (or assaulting), as I think my point was made very clear about how long we would have to wait since my last post to Krystal.

    http://wreg.com/2012/04/05/names-released-in-hollywood-casino-murder/

    Like

  14. Michell says:

    When are Sharpton, Jackson and the Black caucus going to start yelling for the arrest of this man? I wonder if Obama will tell us this man could be his son?

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/taco-bell-shooting-victim-was-holding-leash-not-weapon-4-4-2012

    Like

    • Aussie says:

      the circumstances are nothing like the Zimmerman case. The male who shot Adkins should be charged with manslaughter at the very least.

      A dog leash is not a metal pipe.

      Like

    • tnwahm says:

      One phrase. “The investigation is still ongoing.” That’s what Sharpton, Jackson and BO/BS obviously “missed” with the Martin/Zimmerman case.

      I am being facetious Sharpton & Jackson aren’t really that stupid, they are just hustlers plain and simple.

      Like

  15. steven campbell says:

    Hi Michell, I read the article, it is yet another senseless death. I am however drawn to the fact that it seems to almost parallel the Martin/ Zimmerman case but in reverse. In this case it is the white man who is deceased. The killer claims self defense while the family and friends of the dead man cry for justice and struggle with the fact that the killer is still free. I IMHO feel that there is something horribly wrong with the stand your ground law. It just opens a host of problems when it comes to prosecuting crimes in which a person is dead and there are no witnesses or conflicting witnesses. I heard tapes of a man in texas who discovered 2 men in his neighbors house. The police were on the way and he was asked to simply stay in his home by the 911 operator. He decided to ignore her request took his shot gun out and proclaimed your dead. They were shot running away with a bag of small items. He claimed the stand your ground defense and never saw any jail time. I as a human being simply feel that the bar needs to be raised a little higher in regards to what justifies taking a human life.

    Like

    • Aussie says:

      yet, if they were both struggling for the gun when it went off, then the stand your ground law is fair and reasonable.

      There is a big difference here, because the Martin case was one where the shot was at very close range.

      I would come up with a different assessment if this had been a case of a shooting at a distance, because in such a case there is probably intent. However, in the Zimmerman case, it was Zimmerman who was being beaten to a pulp by a little thug by the name of Trayvon Martin. I have no sympathy for him or his family.

      Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      So on the basis of isolated cases, we should take away the right of Americans to protect their hearth, home, and loved ones with deadly force from those who would try to take it away by deadly force? It’s the silly leftist argument that criminals are misunderstood, or poor, or desperate — not that they are wrong, both morally and legally, from stealing, raping, destroying. Try stepping away from your emotional / leftist arguments, Stevie. I as an American feel that the bar needs to be raised in regard to allowing Americans to keep criminals at bay. Totalitarian regimes arise when then take away the right of citizens to defend themselves. Look to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union for recent examples.

      Like

    • stellap says:

      A lot is made of the 911 operators’ requests, as if they are all-knowing and all-seeing. You are not obligated to follow a 911 operator’s directions, though I am sure that they are usually good advice. There was a 911 operator in Detroit who scolded a little boy who was calling to get help for his mom. She assumed he was misusing the 911 system. The mother died, and the operator was sued.

      Like

      • Michell says:

        I heard something the other day about a 911 operator telling someone to go back to the scene and then they were killed by following the 911 operator’s instructions.

        Like

      • Gino says:

        Stellap, you are correct you are not mandated to stop and it is perhaps the prudent thing to do.The implied instructions of a police dispatcher requesting that you stop whatever activity you are engaged in has two specific purposes:
        1.) Limit the possible escalation of an event.
        2) Actively separate the police department from any liability

        Like

    • Aussie says:

      and troll, you are mis-speaking because there is NO parallel between the two cases. In the case involving Trayvon Martin it was the thug Martin who initiated the activity that occurred. In that case, the thug punched GZ to the ground. There was a struggle for the gun which was owned by GZ and it went off…. Plus, Martin had powder burns on his hands.

      In this second case, sure there appears to have been an altercation. It is also a case where the driver could have kept his window up. However, he pulled a gun… which is nothing like the Zimmerman/Martin case…. where the gun was not pulled but there was a struggle for the gun and Trayvon Martin tried to get hold of the gun.

      Dog leashes do not kill.

      Like

    • Michell says:

      Steven, I think I should have the right to defend my life or the lives of my family members.

      IMO having your head beaten into concrete is a little different than someone shaking their fists at you. If Zimmerman was being beaten he had a right to defend himself. If he said Martin had shook his fist at him or said he was coming at him with a bat that wasn’t found then I’d say he should be charged with a crime.

      Regardless where is the media outrage, where are the race baiters such as Sharpton, Jackson, NBP or Obama?

      Like

  16. Aoife says:

    Where are the videos of St. Skittles at a convenience store? Where’s the tox screen? What about ballistics? The media can invent entire parcels to push a particular narrative yet the things which could shed the most light on this somehow are missing…Gosh I wish this were over.

    Like

    • ZurichMike says:

      The left doesn’t want it to be over before they can milk it for every penny, every bit of guilt-damages, every bit of political power, every bit of affirmative action, every bit of distraction from the the Obama train wreck they can. It has *nothing* to do with Trayvon Martin.

      Like

    • Michell says:

      I heard on tv last night that the skittles and iced tea was in the police report, but the only police report I’ve read didn’t mention anything other than the description of his clothing. I have read that the skittles and tea came from the Dad’s girlfriend’s son that he went to buy skittles and tea.

      Like

      • solaratov says:

        It would be nice if someone could come up with a tape of St. Tman *actually* in the store making that purchase. (And one would expect most – if not all – convenience stores in a “high crime/rundown” area to be equipped with security cameras.)
        Where’s the tape?
        Where is the “tea” bottle?
        Where is the “skittles” bag?
        Or was someone using street slang for drugs?
        Was there ever even a trip to the store?

        Whole lotta loose ends that need some tyin’ up, it seems.

        👿

        Like

        • Michell says:

          I kept wondering when I first heard about an unarmed kid with a bag of skittles and bottle of tea came from. My assumption was the police report, but I couldn’t find it there. Then last night I heard it again and the attorney for the Martin family said it was in the police report so I looked again thinking I missed it. I still didn’t find it.
          I do remember reading maybe even on this blog it came from the girlfriend’s kid.
          Through all my research though I can’t find for a fact where the story originated.

          So I’m with you where are the skittles and were there skittles? Not that it really matters one way or the other to the case, it just bugs me because I can’t find in anything the police have released about skittles yet it has been a huge talking point since the story took off.

          BTW, I’m still not hearing anything on the news about the 22 year old black man who shot the mentally disabled man. I haven’t heard anything about the 78 year old man who was attacked by 6 kids or the man in his 50’s that was beaten by the 2 black teens. I haven’t even heard anything about all the people shot at the funeral. Yet I’ve heard just about every show talk about the Trayvon Martin case.

          Like

  17. steven campbell says:

    My last post was not in anyway inciteful. Why are my legitimate post being moderated? I see name calling and inciteful post from some of the regulars here. Just doesnt seem right.

    Like

    • Steve, with all due respect to you it’s not about being “inciteful” as much as convo to nowhere. Despite the numerous factual examples laid at your feet, you appear to keep beating the same dead horse. See: Circular Logic/Arguing, and Cognitive Dissonance.

      Personally for me I just disconnect from such annoyances and ignore you when your positions are running in circles. However, the Treeper group as a whole values and respects comments, so they are drawn to respond. In turn those responses become increasingly frustrated by those who are either unwilling, or constitutionally unable, to take a conversation from point A to point B.

      It is that frustration that leads to dispatch into the land of perpetual moderation because the overall conversation does not benefit from the contribution.

      This is not to say that agreement is neccessary, quite the opposite, we all hold divergent opinions. But where we part ways is when a commentator finds it neccessary to state the same thing over and over regardless of response or counter presentation.

      The original point stands and does not need to be repeated ad infinitum. This is one of the key illogical traits of leftists or progressives. They continue to beat the same drum over and over, and over. If you have a position fine, state it, then back it up with credible intellectual points in the conversation. It does no good to just keep repeating the position over and over.

      The Treehouse is like a trenchline in battle where we talk about stuff like strategy, next steps and flush out the moves of the opponents. Also to help improve the overall morale for the battles with ideological insanity. Circular logic is like an annoying gnat in the foxhole contributing nothing to the overall discussion.

      Like

    • stellap says:

      Hi, steven. What sundance said. Also, most of us work during the day, and can take a few minutes here and there to moderate comments. My last trip here was while I was eating my lunch at my desk. Perhaps you have more personal time during the day than the rest of us. Since all of your comments are moderated, they may not appear immediately – or even in a couple of hours, depending upon when they are posted.

      All of us here donate our time. We have to work to support ourselves.

      Like

  18. steven campbell says:

    Point taken.

    Like

  19. Jay says:

    This will be my first and only post as it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize there are very few open minds here. I give credit where it is due. You are correct that black on black crime takes the lives of black youth everyday and is much more of an issue in the black community than white on black crime. But to sit on your high horses as if you don’t know how the black community got to where it is in this country. Centuries of legal thugery and unspeakable violence perpetrated by many of your ancestors that you would love to ignore because it’s in the past. But it’s still staring us all in the face. Your ignoring it only serves to aggrevate it. Yes there are way too many black men in prisons doing more time for the same crime, because they smoked crack while people who look like you snorted coke. You would like to believe it is because black people are morally bankrupt, so you can ignore the fact that justice is not yet colorblind in this country. You have a habit of blaming the victim. Trayvon Martin was not perfect and neither are you – unless my Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ has posted here. The facts will soon bear out that as a neighborhood watchman you should be watching and reporting supicious behavior not engaging. Zimmerman tried to exercise authority he did not have. A kid is dead that shouldn’t be. Everyone is welcome to there opinions and even feelings. But don’t call yourself a Christian (emphasis on Christ) and have no compassion for a life cut short and mourning loved ones. Contrary to the belief of many of you, the Right is not always right. You’d rather build prisons than invest in early childhood education programs. You rail against abortion (rightfully so) but won’t lift a finger to help the millions of poor children, black, hispanic, and white who will not escape there dead end environment without intervention. You’d rather blame single mother’s and other victims for being where they are. That way you never have to question yourselves or consider that hey, maybe I’m part of the problem. As for the black community, we will not only survive but thrive by the grace of almighty God. I am Christian, Black, and by your standards – leftist.

    Like

    • Maybe we empathize more than you know, Jay. Many of us know about the horrors perpetrated on the black communities of years past. We’ve talked about the tinderbox Jacksonville is right now, but we also know about the axe-handle riots where blacks were beaten mercilessly by white thugs. We’re not ignorant about those times, and we’re not ignorant of justice not being colorblind. But all the more so because YOU are not ignorant of these things, then why are you not especially critical of this miscarriage of justice happening right now? Are you happy that this Latino man may be railroaded despite possibly having been attacked? I know, you don’t believe that, but the evidence supports it. And how dare you accuse us of having ancestors who were racists? You know very well that many of us are descended from immigrants who weren’t even in this country when those events happened. If you associate us in any way with those atrocities BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF OUR SKIN, THAT MAKES YOU A RACIST. Asshole. Thanks for that.

      Like

      • Menagerie says:

        Grunt, I know little of my mother’s family history, but it is entirely possible there were some bad characters in the lineup. Doubt if there were slave owners – not much money in the family. My parents were very ignorant when it came to racial attitude, and I hated that from early memory. I do not find myself responsible for what they did and thought, only for my actions and beliefs. I don’t care if Scarlett O’Hara was my great grandma, I had not one damned thing to do with it. If you hate me because I potentially had racist ancestors, you are as racist as they were. Period. All I can do is in the here and now.

        Like

        • Agreed, and I apologize if I made it sound like those with white lineage going way back in America have any more responsibility for racism than those of us whose families are more recent transplants. At some point, everyone has axes they can grind, and everyone needs to let those go, or there can be no progress whatsoever in anything. Well said, Menage. Here and now.

          Like

        • stellap says:

          Absolutely, both Grunt and Menage. Nobody in my family had any money – all were immigrants who came here to make a new life. The ones who came in the 1700’s were dirt poor tenant farmers from Scotland and England, and were tenant farmers at first here in the New World.

          ADD: Three of my four great-grandfathers fought in the Civil War on the Union side.

          Like

          • stellap says:

            Forgot to mention that the 4th great-grandfather was living in Canada originally, and didn’t come to the US until the 1870’s.

            Like

        • There are so many programs in place to help these kids strive in life. the real problem is the “fix” we’re already giving them is not working. Give them a fish and you feed them for a day. Teach them to fish and you feed them for life. Handouts are the answer isn’t it?

          Like

    • WeeWeed says:

      Another hit-‘n-run raaaayccciiiiissss. Thanks. Claiming to be a Christian tops it off. I’m white and never owned slaves, you dick. YOU were never a slave. We have a pResident that’s trying to redistribute every dime he can to a black generational welfare society in order to continue this worthless lifestyle of thuggery, pimpdom, voter fraud, and random murder with no repercussions from a joke of an attorney general and you still stand by skin color. Big Morals. There ya go. Piss Off.
      Photobucket

      Like

    • And another thing, Christian Dude. I’m a 3rd-degree Knight of Columbus, which is an honor I proudly share with many thousands of hispanics and blacks (like Alan Keyes). That group was formed to support poor immigrants who were abused and treated like slaves at the end of the last century. It mostly involved taking care of the widows of poor men who died in the coal mines or through other injustice. But you know what? That group is mostly involved with community service and charity now, and it’s not obsessed with licking the wounds of the past, religious or racial or otherwise. How have your friends been doing? Forget much? Apparently not. Still obsessed with race? It would seem so. Consider stopping that.

      Like

    • What a jackass. Doesn’t even deserve a response. Not one point to the substance of the original post.

      Like

    • 2319 people, we have a 2319. Yiipppeeeeee and it’s hump day to boot. Another “Poke and Run” special.
      STOP, LISTEN, READ, CONTEMPLATE, you just might come to a…….naw forget it.

      Like

    • stellap says:

      “You’d rather build prisons than invest in early childhood education programs. You rail against abortion (rightfully so) but won’t lift a finger to help the millions of poor children, black, hispanic, and white who will not escape there dead end environment without intervention. You’d rather blame single mother’s and other victims for being where they are.”

      You know nothing about me. How dare you make these assumptions? You, sir, are a condescending prig.

      Like

      • ZurichMike says:

        Stella, the troll’s quotation in your post is nothing more than the usual “guns versus butter” argument, known in debate circles a s the “fallacy of the excluded middle”, where the opponent sets the premise as an either/or decision, usually of two unrelated but polarizing options. There’s also the “appeal to emotion” fallacy. This combination elicits a defensive response. Don’t fall for it. The correct response is to acknowledge both options, remove the false dichotomy, destroy the emotional aspect, and move the conversation back on track. Something along these lines: “Life is more complex that the simplistic either/or situation you describe, and there is nothing that says we can’t do both: we can build prisons *and* invest in education, and we *have* done both. Setting emotion arguments aside, the fact is that we’ve spent trillions of dollars since Johnson’s “Great Society” on social programs and comparatively little on prisons during that time. These are interesting topics, but have nothing to do with following long-standing criminal law procedures that allow the proper, rational review of crimes.”

        Like

        • stellap says:

          He/She’s a creep. The reason I posted this is to point out the fallacy of “I only wanted to have a discussion”.

          P.S.: Of course, you are right!

          Like

    • 2319 people, we have a 2319! And it’s only hump day. Yiipppppeeeeeee! “Poke and run” ain’t it fun. Yup real educated folks. Now if you would just STOP, READ, LISTEN, THINK, MEDITATE AND PRAY you might just learn……..Aw forget it! SOS! Another “stuck on stupid” poke and run.

      Like

    • Aussie says:

      yes, indeed the facts of the Martin case will prove beyond reasonable doubt that Trayvon Martin was a thug who intended to murder George Zimmerman, but the fatal shot ended up killing him instead.

      You know nothing about real Christianity since you follow what is the dross.

      Like

  20. Jay says:

    Wow! I didn’t think you could say anything to make me post again but here goes. Those of you that resorted to the name calling – grow up. I will not respond in kind. Grunt, who are you kidding? You’re not really interested in progress or someone with a different idea or thought wouldn’t be attacked. Progress often starts with mutual respect then conversation can lead to better understanding. I congratulate all of your ancestors who worked hard and made a better way for themselves. The fact still remains that they benefitted from a system that rewarded their hard work and more often than not beat back the efforts of my ancestors. If your families were not a part of the slavery and disenfranchisement of black folks then I wasn’t talking to you. Why were you so offended? The system was and to some degree still is in place. I would want to stay in the here and now, too if I were you. In the here and now is where I can point fingers at everyone but me. To discount the part that history has played in our present is unintelligent, unscientific, unsound and dangerous. Cause and effect ring a bell with anyone? I’m not obsessed with race, but I’m not afraid to discuss it either – that is if the discussion could be fruitful. I don’t think that’s possible hear. There is still very much a race problem in this country. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. One other thing. Find someone who is of comparable athleticism to yourself. Challenge him to a 100m dash – only spot him 50m before you start. Let me know how that works for you. God bless you all! Signing out.

    Like

    • Oh yeah, that’s why we attack you. Because you have “different ideas.” 🙄

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      • And Jay, you know who got the first 2 jobs I tried for when I got out of college? Black women who had worse resumes than I did but were selected (possibly) for affirmative action reasons. You want to know how that worked out for me? You want to know how I lost my last job? The black chief administrator of NASA, at the urging of the black POTUS, canceled the program I was working on. Ask me how I feel about that? Then kiss my ass.

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    • Awwww, a poor little wounded indian…. (it’s an analogy) fee fees are hurt. Grow the hell up and quit your damn whining. Time to move off the plantation and stop looking for dependency as a solution to all your problems. How about actually taking responsibility for yourself huh?

      Your excuses for the plight of the poor black folk melt in the face of immigrants that have no more opportunity than, nor are protected by affirmative action crap, yet they thrive and kick your “race-dependent-for-identity” ass.

      Racism is the inherent belief that one race is superior to another merely as an outcome of their being. Progressive racism is exactly what you advocate for: increasing the dependency mindset and diminishing individual responsibility. In your world it’s everybody elses fault……. Whatever.

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    • Ad rem says:

      Wow…..must be wonderfully liberating and self-fufilling to blame your shortcomings on the bogus concept of “Critical Race Theory”. You’re just another individual that cannot succeed in life without finding fault with and diminishing another’s accomplishments. And yes, I’m afraid the race problem will never go away….as long as people like yourself find it a convenient crutch to lean on. It’s called self-pity….wallow in it!

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    • Menagerie says:

      Serious questions here. What kind of discussion do you want to have? Are you willing to listen as well as talk? When my sons were in middle school, there were black kids who told them they could never be friends, indeed were enemies because they are white. I do not believe anyone is denying history here, nor refusing to discuss slavery or acknowledge it’s existence. We cannot change the past, so what next step is to be taken. If you want white people to acknowledge responsibility, well and good. When are black leaders going to step up and encourage responsibility in the black community? When are they going to stop looking totally outward and focus just a little inward? As in being a community who supports education, personal integrity and responsibility for one’s own actions, work ethic, commitment to family, and make society as a whole a better place for all of us? And if you think that I just slammed black people as a whole, you are not as ready for that conversation as you think. I think there are black, whites, Indians and hispanics who are a drag on society, and those who are contributors. However, I think black people have allowed the wrong people to become spokesmen for them, or at least to portray themselves as spokesmen. Sharpton and Jackson are hustlers, and Eric Holder should equally prosecute Black Panthers who issue “dead or alive” rewards. If you cannot be outraged at that, you are lacking any rational basis to discuss racial issues.

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    • texan59 says:

      If you want to come on here and castigate us for being closed minded, I would suggest you take a look in the mirror. We may not agree with your politics, but that does not make us anymore close-minded than you.

      If you want to blame us for the sad state of the black community, that might be a fair assessment. However, you need to do a little research and not believe what you read inyour history books in school. If you want to blame someone, blame the democrat party. They are the ones who prolonged such things as the Civil Rights Act and other legislation to put your community on “equal” footing. LBJ and his Great Society has done more harm than just about any repression your folks have undergone. The founders and leaders of the Klan were democrats. See – Robert Byrd.

      Now if you want to come on here and blame me or anyone else on this site for slavery and repression of the black community you have come to the wrong place. You need to look at supposed “leaders” like Jesse and Al. They have led very nice lives making you believe they are standing up for you. They are not. They are out for themselves and no one else. They are race-baiters, opportunists and money-grubbers.

      Why is it that men like Allen West, Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele and Walter Williams are treated like pariahs in the black community? It’s because they believe in self-reliance of the individual, not the group. Jesse and Al want you to believe like the unions do, that they are out for the little guy, when in reality, all a union does is protect the slackers and those who have no ambition. They never reward the ambitious go-getter, only those at the bottom.

      Blacks have not been slaves for nearly 150 years. It’s time for you to move past that. I didn’t own any slaves. My ancestors didn’t either. Can you prove that your ancestors were slaves. If so, I’m sorry they had to live through that. Look at your history though. Many slaves were sold by other blacks in Africa. The white man did not go over there and just grab them off the continent. Now you need to move on from the victim mentality and take responsibilty for yourself and your family. You aren’t going to save your race. Only the individual can do that.

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    • stellap says:

      When you start out by insulting others, you can hardly expect that to be the beginning of a civil “discussion”.

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    • ZurichMike says:

      “Challenge him to a 100m dash – only spot him 50m before you start. Let me know how that works for you.”

      You’re referring to affirmative action, right?

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    • Aussie says:

      well Jay, go learn some history because you have not one single fact correct.

      Did you know that the KKK was started by Democrats?

      Did you know that the KKK punished Republicans as well as blacks?

      Did you know that it was Democrats that introduced the Jim Crow Laws?

      Do you comprehend that it was Republicans that helped put an end to slavery?

      and yet this is the thanks that you give to the people who risked their lives for those who were slaves.

      None of the present day blacks are slaves. Most are victims in their own minds. They all need to grow up and stop the projecting. They also need to take responsibility for their own lives. Only when that happens will things begin to change because being on welfare is not going to be a life-changing experience.

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