If you read only one thread all day… make it this one. Please.

Turkish Prime Minister strongly against arming Libyan rebels:
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister, has said he does not support the idea of arming Libyan rebels fighting to oust Muammar Gaddafi from power.  Speaking at a joint news conference with David Cameron, the British prime minister, in London, Erdogan said: “Doing that would create a different situation in Libya and we do not find it appropriate to do that.”    Erdogan also said that that sending weapons to Libya could feed terrorism, saying such weapons shipments “could also create an environment which could be conducive to terrorism”.

Tayyip Erdogan - Turkey, David Cameron - U.K.

His comments came as Gaddafi warned the Western powers mounting air strikes on his country that they had unleashed a war between Christians and Muslims that could spiral out of control.    Western states intervened in Libya after the UN authorised them to protect civilians it said were under attack by pro-Gaddafi forces, but Tripoli says the military intervention in an act of unwarranted aggression.   “If they continue, the world will enter into a real crusader war. They have started something dangerous that cannot be controlled and it will become out of their control,” said a text from Gaddafi, read out on state television.   “The leaders who decided to launch a crusader war between Christians and Muslims across the Mediterranean and who … killed… huge numbers of civilians in Libya, they have been made crazy by power and they want to impose the law of strength on the strength of the law.

“They have also destroyed the shared interests of their people and the Libyan people and undermined peace and wiped out civilians and they want to return us to the Middle Ages,” Gaddafi was quoted as saying.   Gaddafi gave regular televised speeches in the first days of the conflict but he has not been seen in public for several days.   Officials say he has been forced to change his routine after an air strike hit the heavily-guarded compound in Tripoli where he has his main residence.

NATO said it had “seamlessly” assumed full command of military operations over Libya on Thursday, and warned combatants on the ground against attacking civilians.   The military alliance had agreed on Sunday to take over all operations from a coalition led by the US, France and Britain, the handover officially took place at 0600 GMT on Thursday morning.  The move puts the 28-nation alliance in charge of air strikes that have targeted Gaddafi’s military infrastructure, and of policing a no-fly zone and an arms embargo.  “The transition has been seamless, with no gaps. NATO is fully responsible,” Canadian Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, commander of NATO’s Libya operations, told journalists at the military alliance’s Southern European headquarters in Naples.

"you got any clue what we're supposed to be looking for?" "Nope, shuddup and just keep making it look like we do"

United States role

– Meanwhile, as the US debates its future role in the Libyan conflict.  [Obama Regime Briefs Congress on Libyan Military Action: “We Don’t Care What You Think”...] defense leaders in Washington on Thursday slammed the brakes on the extent of US help to the rebels.  Top officials said that some country other than the US should perform any future training and equipping of the Libyan opposition groups.   Under withering congressional probing and criticism of what was described as an ill-defined mission to aid a rebel force that officials know little about, Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, sketched out a largely limited role for the US military going forward.

Admiral Mike Mullen - Chairman of the Joint Cheifs

Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told members of the House Armed Services panel that many other countries have the ability to train and support the rebels.   “My view would be, if there is going to be that kind of assistance to the opposition, there are plenty of sources for it other than the United States,” said Gates. “Somebody else should do that.”    Gates and Mullen told Congress that future US participation will be limited and will not involve an active role in airstrikes as time goes on.

They were unable, however, to answer key questions from clearly agitated politicians about the length of the operation and how it will play out if Gaddafi does not relinquish power.   The US goals are unclear and officials do not know who the rebels are, said Mike Turner, a Republican representative, adding that if it came to a vote he would not support US involvement in the operation.    Turner and others repeatedly complained that Congress had not been consulted on the Libya operation, and chafed that the legislative branch is not willing to be a backseat driver.

CIA active – Gates and Mullen said that Gaddafi’s military has been degraded by as much as 25 per cent, but Mullen noted that regime forces still outnumber the rebels by about 10-to-1.  They said the opposition groups are fractured and operating independently city by city, with just 1,000 of the rebels militarily trained.   Their comments came as Gaddafi’s forces struck forcefully back at the rebels this week, recapturing lost ground and triggering pleas for help from the battered opposition forces.

Gates said that he believes political and economic pressures will eventually drive Gaddafi from power, but the military operation will help force him to make those choices by degrading his defense capabilities.  Gates and Mullen were testifying before the House and Senate Armed Services Committees in the wake of revelations that small teams of CIA operatives are working in Libya.   Gates declined to comment on the CIA activities in Libya.   US officials have acknowledged that the CIA has sent small teams of operatives into Libya and helped rescue a crew member of a US fighter jet that crashed.

The CIA’s precise role in Libya is not clear.   Intelligence experts said the CIA would have sent officials to make contact with the opposition and assess the strength and needs of the rebel forces in the event Barack Obama, the US president, decided to arm them.

[SUMMATION SO FAR]  OK, so you’ve got the Turkish Prime Minister saying “DO NOT” arm the rebels.   You’ve got President Obama, Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton saying “MAYBE” we will arm the rebels.  You’ve got Obama inserting CIA operatives so they “CAN” arm the rebels.   You’ve got the Pentagon and Defense Department sworn to win the “objective”, but operational “control” now in the hands of  NATO.    Keep reading  please ……….

(Daily Beast) As the battle for the future of Libya continues, the excitement is almost palpable among Libyan-born al Qaeda fighters and other Arabs hunkered down in Pakistan’s remote and lawless tribal area.

According to Afghan Taliban sources close to Osama bin Laden’s terrorist group, some of the 200 or so Libyans operating near the Afghan border may be on their way home to steer the anti-Gaddafi revolution in a more Islamist direction.

“We have heard a number of fighters have already departed from the tribal area,” says an Afghan commander who is linked to the powerful Haqqani network, a North Waziristan-based organization that shelters many al Qaeda fighters. Others may be on their way. “Libyans and Arabs seem to be getting ready for departure and are eager to go home and fight,” says the Afghan source. “I’ve heard that some fighters are saying goodbye and giving thanks with kind words to their (Pakistani) tribal friends who have been sheltering them.”

Since the anti-Gaddafi revolution began last month, al Qaeda — especially Libyan-born affiliates — have viewed the fighting as an opportunity to spread their radical Islamist ideology. Indeed, as one Afghan Taliban operative who helps facilitate the movement of al Qaeda militants between the tribal area and Pakistani cities told The Daily Beast earlier this month: “This rebellion is the fresh breeze they’ve been waiting years for. They realize that if they don’t use this opportunity, it could be the end of their chances to turn Libya toward a real Islamic state, as Afghanistan once was.”

Now, as the White House and NATO continue to debate the possible ramifications of arming the Libyan opposition, the Haqqani network-linked Afghan commander says Libyan al Qaeda affiliates seem to be more “enthusiastic” about the war against Gaddafi every day. And from what the Afghan Taliban commander has seen, there appears to be more than “flickers” of al  Qaeda’s presence in Libya, the description given by NATO commander Admiral James Stavridis. According to the Afghan commander, al Qaeda fighters can’t believe their good luck that U.S. and NATO aircraft — the same forces that have dropped bombs on their heads in Afghanistan and Pakistan — are now raining down ordnance against Gaddafi.

(got that? read the emphasis again !!!)

Today, along the tribal border region, al Qaeda’s thirst for more immediate news has led even top leaders like Abu Yahya al-Libi, a Libyan who serves as the movement’s senior Islamist ideologue and bin Laden’s head of operations for Afghanistan, to become almost foolhardy. The Afghan commander says that Yahya and some of his countrymen have even risked visiting villagers’ houses that have satellite television dishes on the roof to watch the latest Western and Middle Eastern news feeds from Libya. Their movements in public areas could easily expose these high value targets to human and UAV surveillance, and a deadly drone strike. . . .

Whether Yahya himself will return to Libya remains to be seen, but speculation about what he’ll do is rife in the tribal area. “What Yahya will do is on the mind and in the words of everyone,” the Taliban commander adds. “But I think he is probably preparing for his next move, contacting mujahideen in Libya and watching the situation in Libya.” Earlier this month, he broke his public silence over the Libyan revolt, issuing a call to arms to his countrymen in a 30-minute video that was posted on al Qaeda-linked Internet sites. He urged Libyans to fight on and kill Gaddafi. “Now it is the turn of Gaddafi [to die] after he made the people of Libya suffer for more than 40 years,” he said. “Retreating will mean decades of harsher oppression and greater injustices than what you have endured.” He also called for the institution of Islamic law once an Arab nation has cast off its former, Western-supported rulers. Overthrowing these Western-backed Arab regimes, he added, was “a step to reach the goal of every Muslim, which is to make the word of Allah the highest.”

Returning to Libya, however, does not guarantee that Yahya or his fellow al Qaeda affiliates will have any success. The long, dangerous trip from Pakistan’s tribal areas can take weeks if not months. At least one Taliban source says Yahya made the trip two years ago and returned safely, although no one else seems able to confirm that story. And even if he or other al Qaeda Libyans manage to get home again, the Taliban facilitator says they know they’ll have a tough time influencing the largely pro-democracy uprising.

“They know they must tread cautiously, and not push too hard, for too much, too soon,” he says. Instead, he says, they expect to take a moderate line at first, while quietly trying to persuade rebel leaders that the preservation of Libyan sovereignty against Western “colonialists” depends on taking an anti-Israeli, anti-American line. Any move toward imposing Islamic sharia law, Yahya’s specialty, will have to come later. Still, Taliban sources say, if Yahya is successful in reaching rebel-held territory inside Libya, at least he’ll be able to operate with relative freedom, without worrying about Gaddafi’s secret police. In the meantime, the betting among the Taliban is that bin Laden may already have found his replacement in the tribal area. “Al Qaeda will not leave this place empty,” says the facilitator.

What makes the insanity of this entire Libyan non-war,war, military thing, so ridiculous is the shere inneptitude of the American “White House” Leadership to actually recognize what the realities are.  As CNN reported yesterday, and Robert Gates confirmed today, the total number of “rebels”, or “freedom fighters” that we have chosen to support is around 1,000.   Yes, you read that right, about 1,000 total fighters.   Of those, only about an estimated couple of hundred have any military training or experience.   Seriously, ‘THIS’ is who we have chosen to attach our wagon to?   Really?   So if victory means eliminating Quadkdaffy, and turning over the country to people we know virtually nothing about, can someone, anyone, explain how this is not going to lead to American intervention and escalation.  And for what? ……  Madness, sheer madness….. SD

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12 Responses to If you read only one thread all day… make it this one. Please.

  1. Oh, the irony. (Ideology of the Rabid Progressive)

    Obumbles is set to arm the civilians of a country to the teeth, with modern weaponry, so that they can form a militia to combat a tyrannical government. Does this not strike the “law professor” as ironic? This “law professor” is in the party that continually seeks to un-arm its citizenry? Obumbles is protecting the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment – In Libya , for Libyans.

    Like

  2. Sad4theUS says:

    When even the Bad guys say it’s a bad idea, you’d think Obama would listen! But will he??
    I don’t hold out hope…

    Like

  3. zmalfoy says:

    He’s initiating a “crusader war” by propping up jihadis and tearing away what little protection the Christians had. . .

    Kyrie eleison . . . Christe eleison . . .kyrie. . .

    Like

  4. Sharon says:

    Well, he said he was going to fundamentally transform the United States of America. Since he can now check that off his list as done (since our former allies no longer trust us and our present enemies appreciate us), does that mean he will now get out of our faces? Why isn’t it treason to provide aid and encouragement to the enemy when that aid comes, publicly, from the office of the POTUS? I can only assume that it’s not considered treason when the POTUS does, because Congress seems to be ok with what he’s doing, since nobody’s stopping him.

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    • GracieD says:

      Sharon, I agree with you. I am currently doing the only thing that I can in this situation…PRAY! I can only hope that God has mercy on us, since Zippy is tearing us apart, and taking a position that is detrimental to Israel.

      Like

      • Sharon says:

        Absolutely. I was reading several of the OT prophets last night and noticed something that was repeated often: God has always provided a way for Israel to turn again (no matter what sins He was dealing with in a particular text) but the nations that opposed Israel?….no. There was no such repeated provision or promise of restoration. The words “cut off” and “never to be inhabited again” are the words that show up in His dealings with them. The nations who oppose Israel (including the United States, if in fact, we end up taking a position that is formally opposed) will figure out, very likely way too late, that God is indeed a God of His Word. It’s a sad truth that anyone, nations or individuals, will always have as little or as much of God as they want, so those in government who want to go stickin’ their finger in God’s eye will get what they want eventually. If God were not a God of great, great mercy, it would be more fearsome than it is right now for all of us. Pray on.

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  5. Glenn Monson says:

    Ahh yes another thinking individual, that actually questions things, I am so weary of brain dead America.. One point I might add you seem to have capitulated on is the whole radical moderate Islam thing.
    I just did an extensive study of Islam and its founder Muhammad, with a different motive when i started, than why I continued it. I quickly changed it to my new idea that Islam was never a religion it is a cult.
    I felt much the same as you and wondered how moderate Muslims could stand by and watch these radical terrorists distort their religion and bastardize their countries. I then remembered the masses that danced in the streets all over the middle east after 9/11, and it dawned on me, there is no moderate Islam.
    I have never seen a moderate cleric, mullah, or ayatollah, I have never seen a nation of Islam use its force or armies to come to the defense of any Christian, Jewish or any other peoples of a different religion. Hell Ive never even read anywhere or seen an Islamic nation using its resources to defend anything. So i started researching the history of Muhammad, and even if you avoid the crackpot sites and conspiracy theorists, even reading the watered down versions of the Qur’an (actual proper way ancient Arabic), all you find is one mans psychotic delusion to reinforce his need for underage sex with many women, (some being the captured daughters and women of the people he just killed for no other reason than he was broke), or the 9 year old he consummated marriage with. There are so many chapters in the Qur’an that just deals with Muhammads explanation of how God wants others to make war as a means of support, and how they should portion the spoils of war or a way to convert everyone else or kill them. You very quickly wonder if this is a joke or a mistake. My research took me many months of reading the ancient Hadith’s Surah’s and what anyone could find on the original incantations that were Muhammads claims.
    This is a man who would spend days in a cave meditating with little to no nourishment, and claimed the angel Gabriel visited him and asked him to recite some things, Muhammad claimed he couldnt not read or write (true he was illiterate) so the angel grabbed him forcibly and demanded he read 3 times, He returned home and told his wife he thought he was disturbed, after this it was his wife that insisted he was visited by and angel and was chosen. There are many accounts of Muhammad trying to commit suicide after this because he didnt get any more visits for almost 3 years but then claims it was the angel gabriel that stopped him from jumping off a cliff and told him he was Gods chosen Prophet.
    SO to sum this up we have a man who claims an angel beat him into reading when he couldnt read, which is now his reason to commit suicide, then the same angel stops him from jumping off a cliff and tells him he is a prophet, all for the sole purpose of warring killing and raping. No one else ever saw this angel, or heard or saw anything related to God in association with Muhammad, it was always his word, no miracles, no commandments, no message for the masses simply do what Muhammad says and Muhammad and his wife are the only ones claiming he is a Prophet,
    In as much as I believe there are some good and moderate people in the middle east I actually have some Persian friends, I have met non that are practicing Muslims, and have never seen anything moderate taught in their religion, at least that came from Muhammad and wasnt later added to try a legitimize this as a religion. You can not talk about any other religion in middle eastern countries, you can not carry a bible or where a cross, It is a death sentence to become an Apostate (leave the religion), as well as try to convert anyone, or question anything the Quran says. If you are born in the middle east you are automatically born Muslim, it is also the fastest and largest apostate religion (people leaving it) It goes on and on with the same ridiculously obvious self indulgent narcissism, never having witnesses or evidence other than his own word, and also never having himself claimed to have seen or heard God.
    SO my contention is Muhammad either was psychotic,or a manipulator that simply needed and excuse to have people follow him and help him kill and rape for money,or he was really smart and new how to manipulate. This seems to be the entire theme and basis for his religion. and today the masses (of Muslims) will be directed to so as they are told or brainwashed (Quranic incantations in Madrassas) There is no moderate form of this religion, if you can call it a religion, America better wake up, and there is no separation of church and state, Islam is the whole package religion political, economic and legal systems all rolled up into one package with no recourse no questions, no rights. No wonder Japan and Australia have banned and restricted much of it form their countries.
    There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. This is also taught and comes from the hadiths Muhammads own words, if nothing else check the web for Ali Sina his forum and site called faithfreedom.org he is an Iranian born ex Muslim and apostate and is offering 50,000.to anyone proving Muhammad was anything but a a narcissist a misogynist a rapist
    a pedophile a lecher a torturer
    a mass murderer a cult leader an assassin
    a terrorist a madman a looter
    http://ffi2.alisina.org

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