02/03 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
damage.
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

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368 Responses to 02/03 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

    • eastern2western says:

      it is odd that there were documented criminal activities around her neighborhood, but she claimed that she never heard anything about them, another odd thing is the racial narrative from the kid.

      • John Galt says:

        “another odd thing is the racial narrative from the kid”

        Oddly consistent with coaching. DD expressed similar views on racial hoodie profiling at about the 10 minute mark in the Crump interview.

        http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-8-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

        • jello333 says:

          Here’s a comment I made in yesterday’s thread when this video came up:

          Wow. The other couple times I watched that, I focused on the person speaking at any given time. But now I watched it keeping an eye on Chad, especially when he was NOT speaking. Now I’m no expert at “reading” what people are thinking by watching their expressions, but Chad is very interesting. So what you might do is watch it once while assuming that Chad’s primary emotion is sadness. Then watch it again, assuming he just might be nervous because of the TV crew. But then watch it while asking yourself… is this kid hiding something, and knows that half of what’s being said isn’t true? That’s what I’m seeing. Again, it might not be fair, and I could be TOTALLY wrong. I’m just telling you guys what I’m seeing.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          What to you hear Dee Dee saying around the 10 minute mark? It’s completely unintelligible to me.

      • rooferx says:

        This woman also says there was no crime in the area…..

        • brutalhonesty says:

          maybe im just racist, but perhaps its only the blacks who dont think sanford had crime…because they were the ones committing the crimes.

        • brutalhonesty says:

          they try so hard with the wannabe cop angle even though police encourage it:
          http://www.facebook.com/SaintLouisMetropolitanPoliceDepartment/posts/370107589754125
          St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department (OFFICIAL) shared a link.
          January 25
          Interested in learning more about the day-to-day job of a St. Louis City Police Officer? We are currently accepting applications for the Citizens Academy, Spring 2013 session! Go to our website and apply today!
          Official Website of the Metropolitan Police Department, City of St. Louis
          http://www.slmpd.org
          4Like · · Share
          Jamie Frisella, Sally P, Nikoli Wirtel and 9 others like this.

          St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department (OFFICIAL) The application is now available here: http://www.slmpd.org/citizens_academy.shtml
          January 28 at 11:42am · Like

          • brutalhonesty says:

            from the application link:
            Citizens Academy
            Interested in learning more about what police officers do everyday? The Citizens Academy offers an insider’s view into the day-to-day job of a St. Louis City Police Officer and is designed to further strengthen the bond between the department and the community. In addition to classroom instruction, participants also visit with police canines, interact with the department’s bomb and arson robot, tour the 911 center and even use driving and shooting simulators.
            The Citizens Academy meets one night per week for 12 weeks. Actual police officers teach nearly all of the classes which include sessions on the department’s history and structure, crime patterns, gang intelligence, homicide investigations and community policing techniques among other things. Class members also participate in role-play, using their knowledge to diffuse situations our officers encounter everyday. At the end of the course, a graduation ceremony is held to honor those who have completed the course. Graduates of the program are able to apply the knowledge they’ve learned to better serve their neighborhoods and assist police when needed.

            The Citizens Academy has proven to be a great tool in building bridges in the community. The course provides participants with an understanding of the challenges officers face everyday and the role the community serves in solving and preventing crimes. Recent graduates of the program can apply the knowledge they’ve learned in order to better serve their communities.

            • libby says:

              They did everything they could to demonize aspiring police officers while suggesting that thugs were really just misunderstood misenthropes

      • Lou says:

        you have to remember that Corey made SPD take down any proof of burglaries in that area.
        http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/removed-pdfs-and-nbc-producers
        under burglary reports

    • Lou says:

      Zimmerman pestered the police????? so biased

      • lovemygirl says:

        Hey, you were mentioned on another biased thread.
        On the Z thing, OMG, the NW guy called the cops 40 some times in 5 years, imagine that?

        • Lou says:

          ??? I actually find it beneficial to George that he called the NEN so many times. with all those phone calls, he was never once beaten or had to shoot anyone.

          • ottawa925 says:

            VERY good point, Lou.

          • officegirl says:

            EXACTLY!!!! Because he called them – just like he should have. He didn’t go after them.

            • Lou says:

              define “go after”. he was LOOKING FOR just as the NEN operator asked “let us know if he does anything else”. the fact that he called many times before and he didn’t get assaulted speaks volumes.

          • libby says:

            In EVERY other instance (where George was NOT viciously attacked and had his life threatened), he chose not to shoot anyone, white or black (and if he had called the cops on a lot of other kids, then that means he had decided not to shoot the vast majority of kids, of all colors, who did not try to kill him).
            yes, excellent point

      • libby says:

        Ironic, isnt it that he could both be accused of pestering the police at the same time as he had them in his pocket and they did everything he told them to?
        You cant have it both ways. Either he had the cops in his pocket and they did his bidding (cuz his dad was a minor magistrate in another state) or he had pestered them (as if the poor police were unable to defend themselves)

    • ytz4mee says:

      Getting tired of the fact that blacks will openly admit they deliberately move to majority white neighborhoods so their families will feel “safe” just like Brandy stated she did, but white families in neighborhoods that go majority black can’t say the same…. but it’s whites who are “rayciss” if they mention any correlation between crime and race ….. smh

    • brutalhonesty says:

      wow, never heard of any crime yet we know over 400 calls in one year.
      notice she goes into blink mode too. and how did he learn not to be racist? who told him it was about race?

      • John Galt says:

        “and how did he learn not to be racist? ”

        Chad’s and DD’s unsupported speculation as to a racial motivation for the shooting are not admissible evidence. Any competent lawyer would know this. So whoever coached them to make the racial remarks either did it for the exclusive purpose of influencing the public, or else they didn’t understand the rules of evidence.

        • ejarra says:

          EVERYTHING they say is for the public’s ears. Since there is NO corroborating evidence from DD1/2′s mouth, the same can be said about her, too.

    • metrometeor says:

      Chad expression is very rigid and his smile seems wrong…. it’s pretty obvious there is something wrong with his attitude. Also, when he is asked the question “What did you want?” he answers way too fast “Skittles”, a tell that this is something he has practiced and just heard the cue.

      • Lou says:

        especially when he threw the word “snack” in there. kids don’t use the word snack, or at least any kids I’ve ever met.

        • rooferx says:

          “He was bored and he wanted to go to the store” “He wanted something to snack on….He asked me what I wanted” “skittles”.
          So, where is the snack that TM went to get for himself first and his lil brother second “skittles”?
          Brandi and Chad are very telling.

        • myopiafree says:

          Lou – you are correct. This is an effort to improve the “credibility” of his statement – and for no other reason. Further, TM was had to depart at 6:00 PM. They should have had their dinner at that time – not be going out in the rain for a “snack”. This is not reality.

          • ejarra says:

            Who was making dinner? Mr. Martin? Was there left over pizza to eat? Was he supposed to cook? Nobody seems to mention that they had to fend for themselves.

    • metrometeor says:

      I think I figured ALL out… you see… if Brandy had had “snacks” and skittles at home, all this tragedies would have been avoided… she is the real culprit of it all! Sent Brandy to the courts!!! We want an arrest!

      • mcfyre2012 says:

        If Traydad and Brandy had bothered to be be home, the tragedy would have been avoided. If Trayparents had any parenting skills, the tragedy could have been avoided.

      • arkansasmimi says:

        Sending up prayers that the new baby boy that TrayDad and Brandy just had, has parenting. Tyler B Martin. Hmm same initals as TrayDad and TradeMark…

    • lovemygirl says:

      100% of the time I hear “That is not who he was”. Sorry, tired of the BS. Yes Trayvon was a punk, so are 95% of the people killed in the USA and 95% of the shooters.

      • hooson1st says:

        I believe that the TM described by his close friends and relatives was that TM, and their shock is genuine.

        Yet there was another side to TM emerging in his later teen years as reflected in the social media sleuthing done at CTH, and by his slow transformation from an eager student to one exhibiting behavorial changes and experimentation in dangerous life choices.

        The emerging TM is difficult to reconcile with the portrait painted by his family and friends. Yet, it is a situation that faces many many families, blended families, torn apart families in today’s world. Trayvon’s family difficulty in reconciling his later actions is totally understandable.

        • Douglas says:

          What evidence is there that he was ever an “eager student”?

          • hooson1st says:

            Douglas -
            Maybe some overstatement on my part. There is anecdotal evidence, from at least one of his teachers, of his being an A and B student. We may get a better idea of we get a peek at his grades over time.

            • libby says:

              Rest in Peace TM

            • jello333 says:

              I’ve never assumed that most of the good/positive stuff about Trayvon was just made up out of the blue. No, what I believe is that there’s a time warp effect going on. Most of the details about Trayvon are actually describing the Trayvon of 5 or more years ago.

              • mommakk51 says:

                I’ve spent nearly a year looking into details of this case.. spend hours upon hours on myspace, facebook and twitter. Found a lot of his friends, found the critical ones of George’s…and just have to say that in the hundreds of photos I’ve found, comments read, etc… NOTHING about Tray strikes me as a bad kid.. Yes, within his family, I do have questions, stemming a lot from their files on the dade county clerk site.. also. the lawyers for that side, the media and the prosecutor’s office appear to be in deep doo doo.

                Zimmerman family, keep fighting the good fight! We are here to stand WITH you!

                Trayvon, God Bless your soul, whether you are in heaven, or still here, and I hope like Jah’Varis that you are.

                To the person that is DeeDee– only the TRUTH will set you free.

                • mommakk51 says:

                  Oops.. forgot to say that I believe with everything in me, that someone else was involved in harming George and Trayvon. Someone that one of them is covering for. ..you know.. that “I am my brother’s keeper” thing. ..

            • Cupcake says:

              Being an A or B student is anecdotal evidence? I thought school grades would be considered fact, or a lie.

        • janc1955 says:

          Hooson1st: I can’t agree that Trayvon’s family’s reconciliation problems are understandable. The emerging TM should’ve been at least as closely parented as the rapidly disappearing “good child.” Deciding to forgo parenting duties when your son is heading into his middle to late teen years is truly asking for trouble. And TM was indeed finding trouble, but that didn’t seem to jolt Tracy or Sybrina awake, either. To me, it is utterly NOT understandable why these parents didn’t take a firm hand with their son, who was clearly disappearing into thugdom before their eyes, despite their denials.

    • lovemygirl says:

      I so tire of the guilt crap. How about taking responsibility for leaving a punk unattended while you partied and he decided to beat the crap out of your local neighborhood watch guy? Grow up and accept responsibility rather than blame others – maybe blame yourself for partying rather than raising a troubled child.

      • howie says:

        Clearly she is a schemer. Part of the team. The kid is a junior schemer. In training.

      • Yea, if he was a “child” and unaware of the evil world around him, maybe he was too young to leave home alone.

      • ejarra says:

        I’ve said before that the one person who should feel the most guilt, and I hope and prey that it eats at him for the rest of his life, IS TRACY.
        HE was the one that decided his son’s ultimate punishment; stemming from the 10 day suspension.
        HE was the one who punished him by giving him up to $100.
        HE was the one that left him alone in that complex while he partied the weekend.
        HE was the one, who if parented properly, would have a living son.

        Tracy, if you are reading this or this gets back to you, think about YOUR role in the avoidable death of your son. YOU are the MOST to blame. YOU!!

    • lovemygirl says:

      I forgot how biased Geraldo was during the beginning but the goof that did the interview definitely deserves a good old fashioned ass kicking.

    • ejarra says:

      Yesterday there was a discussion about Trayvon Martin’s trapezoid muscles in his school ID photo. Take a look at them when he’s on the horse. This is a muscular young man and NOT a WHIMP.

    • janc1955 says:

      Logging back in to hopefully fix my notifications thingy.

  1. taqiyyologist says:

    Two more days.

    For George:

    Psalm 59, KJV

    1 Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me.

    2 Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men.

    3 For, lo, they lie in wait for my soul: the mighty are gathered against me; not for my transgression, nor for my sin, O Lord.

    4 They run and prepare themselves without my fault: awake to help me, and behold.

    5 Thou therefore, O Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.

    6 They return at evening: they make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.

    7 Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?

    8 But thou, O Lord, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.

    9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.

    10 The God of my mercy shall prevent me: God shall let me see my desire upon mine enemies.

    11 Slay them not, lest my people forget: scatter them by thy power; and bring them down, O Lord our shield.

    12 For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.

    13 Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah.

    14 And at evening let them return; and let them make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.

    15 Let them wander up and down for meat, and grudge if they be not satisfied.

    16 But I will sing of thy power; yea, I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble.

    17 Unto thee, O my strength, will I sing: for God is my defence, and the God of my mercy.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      I found this most interesting
      Affirmative vs. Negating Defenses

      An affirmative defense is used to explain or justify the behavior that is alleged to be criminal. But this defense can sometimes be more difficult to prove than a negating defense. A negating defense attacks an essential element of the criminal charge brought by the prosecutor. Because the prosecutor has the initial burden of proving every element of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, to negate, the defense only has the burden of creating doubt about one or all of the elements. To do so, the defendent has to produce some actual evidence through eyewitnesses, videos, or other physical proof to support justification.

      However, the use of an affirmative defense is not about attacking an element of the crime, it is usually about justifying or excusing the criminal action. For example, suppose a defendant is on trial for first degree murder of her husband. To prove a first degree murder charge, the prosecutor must generally offer evidence that the murder was premeditated, that is, the defendant planned the murder beforehand. The prosecutor has plenty of DNA evidence to connect the defendant to the murder of her husband, but weak or speculative evidence that the defendant actually planned the murder. The defense may use a negating defense in this case, to show that since the prosecution has not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant planned to kill her husband, the jury cannot convict the defendant for first degree murder.

      However, to strengthen the case that the murder was not premeditated, the defense may also introduce additional evidence which shows that the defendant acted in self-defense. This additional evidence may be photos of the defendant after the murder which shows her badly beaten, or witness testimony that someone heard the defendant crying out for help the night of the murder. Self-defense is a commonly used affirmative defense, which justifies a defendant’s unlawful behavior on the basis of protecting oneself. If used successfully, the defendant in this case could be exonerated of the crime altogether.

      http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/criminal-law/affirmative-defenses.htm

      • brutalhonesty says:

        essentially omara can just be like “show right now your proof of depraved mind” and if they cant, its dismissed, is how I am reading this.

        • justfactsplz says:

          Oh, that would be so good if that could happen.

        • howie says:

          That is one of the elements the state must prove. A judge can stop it in the bud or send it to the jury. I thinks. A judge can rule any way they want regardless of what is before them. As long as they don’t care if they are reversed on appeal or kicked off the case. Example Lester. But if the judge stops it the state can go back to the drawing board and file something again. I think. Seems like this case could be tried many times with hung juries depending on the makeup of the juries. The circular arguments are never ending depending on racial and political views. On and on and on.

      • howie says:

        It is burden shifting. Shifts the burden of proof rom the state to the defendant.

      • myopiafree says:

        Dear Brutal, As with the NiFong fiasco, there was “negative evidence”, in the form of DNA, that the students had no involvement with the prostitute. But NiFong denied them access to that proof – for HIS OWN PURPOSE. In the case of DeeDee talking to TM on a DEAD CELL PHONE, the same basic problem exists. No such conversation could have taken place – at all. That is indeed “negative proof” and DeeDee-Crump are lying about it. Further, the STATE will not acknowledge that truth – and have attempted to prevent DEFENSE from getting that information. Yes this is “negative proof”, but it is proof that Bernie is attempting to keep this case “going” when there is no evidence to support Bernie’s charge against George at all. Crump’s “bombshell” ear-witness is a liar, and that is the “bombshell” for Bernie. IMHO.

  2. taqiyyologist says:

    Pray that the hearing on February 5th, the day Treyvon was born, no less, results in the entire case being thrown out, and George released, and that God visits His Holy Justice upon those who conspired to do this evil thing.

  3. brutalhonesty says:

    reposting:
    Just a reminder, February 5th is my birthday. More importantly, it is George’s next court date. Least importantly its some dead kids birthday, but who cares, hes not here, so no party, presents, cake. Just a bunch of racist money grubbing dredges to society exploiting a dead kid to line their pockets.

    Expect the Martins and Crump to hold a presser just before the hearing, to say the typical stuff they have said over and over since the beginning. They will use the propaganda technique of DEIFICATION:
    This is when an idea is made to appear holy, sacred, or very special and therefore above all law. Any alternative or opposite points of view are thereby given the appearance of treason or blasphemy.
    Examples: “God-given right to…”, “innocent [black] child”..”my son”…”dead child”…”wasnt committing any crimes”.

    Sybrina will make an emotional appeal again, as donations are drying up and crump going everywhere with her is getting expensive. “I hope you have not forgotten about my son”
    She and Crump will both slip in the name of whatever fraud they are running now, if it isnt still “change for trayvon”…in every other sentense.

    Expect the PR Firms paid trolls to be out hard pushing the propaganda leading up to, the morning of, and during the hearing. Then expect a lag in their talking points while the pr firm goes to damage control mode and evaluates the judges rulings.

    Once the Pr firm comes up with their talking points, Natalie and Ben and the martins, global grind, and certain media will all follow accordingly all at virtually the same time thanks to the networks they have developed on facebook and twitter, which I have outlined previously in other threads here and elsewhere(treehouse excluded). All the research is there for all to see, in public view, real time, as it happened. There is no disputing how I have thus far gotten from A to B.

    And finally, their side has already as outlined previously started a false rumor and attributed it to zimmerman supporters, that the videos entered/subpoena’d show trayvon checking car door handles…this is an attempt by the pr firm to discredit the treehouse and anyone else who repeated it. It began with the pr firm, was issued to the paid trolls, and they started claiming they heard it from somewhere. None of us saw it before they were talking about it, and we are on this like hawks. The intent of this misdirection is so when the videos in fact show him doing something else illegal, or not illegal..doesnt matter which…….they can claim “the racists assumed he was on camera looking at cars cuz hes black, they lied about trayvon because they are racists, thats slander and they are guilty of it and we caught them inventing evidence about a dead black child whos only crime was (nothing, smoking a blunt, getting a beer somehow, getting his weed ruined in the rain, stopping somewhere to roll a blunt, smoking a black and mild whatever it is).

    1:09am 1/27/2013
    Greg Miller from the Show Me State.

    • Lou says:

      Happy Birthday BH. great post as usual. remember Trayvon was just minding his own business committing a felony to someone that was non-black. to Trayvon a non-black was someone insignificant, just like his mom taught him.

      • libby says:

        And to the black racists, non-blacks are insignificant people you should feel free to attack at will, excuses will be made up later

    • taqiyyologist says:

      Re: Deification:

      T-shirts with Treyvon™’s image. Treyvon™ murals. Treyvon posters™.

      Treyvon™ named in Hip Hop track after track (seriously.) as if he was Tupac™, or something.

    • taqiyyologist says:

      brutalhonesty:

      That was, indeed, brutal. Excellent repost. Greg Miller is almost as cynical as me.

      Almost.

    • thefirstab says:

      Typical deflection – Scheme Team MO: the best Defense (against the Truth) is a good Offense (fabricated story/witness, play the race card AGAIN, media manipulation)

      Thanks BH for this info – I have not yet heard about the car door handles. All such attempts should be exposed ASAP.

      I find it amazing that some people (even the idiots Crump & Co) somehow after all this time, will “find” some new evidence or development that has never-before surfaced. Oh, and of course it benefits THEIR side. /sarc

    • jordan2222 says:

      What makes you so sure that anyone from Crump’s camp will show up? At some point, the media will wake up so why take the risk of that happening in public?

  4. taqiyyologist says:

    14 And at evening let them return; and let them make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.

    15 Let them wander up and down for meat, and grudge if they be not satisfied.

    In other words — when George is released, since the prosecution has less than 1/10th of Jack Squat, “They” will bark, then go into “Riot Mode Protocol Alpha”, then claim to be Victims. “and grudge if they be not satisfied”.

  5. eastern2western says:

    In about 3 days, I want to hear de la rionda’s explaination of the cell phone’s magical trip to california without the stutterings.

    • Lou says:

      he will just scream and make counter accusations, and shift away from that issue. I see he’s pretty good at switching topics away from the real issues. he’ll say George wants to get autographs, or some other nonsense from his make believe fantasy world.

      • eastern2western says:

        actually, I think he will have some technological explaination that will just confuse the crap out of nelson. Judging from that woman’s age, I do not think she understand the meaning of gps.

        • John Galt says:

          “I think he will have some technological explaination that will just confuse the crap out of nelson.”

          I think BDLR will feign technical ignorance, as he did when he pretended not to understand the difference between a color digital photo and a blurry black and white photocopy of a photo.

        • Chip Bennett says:

          actually, I think he will have some technological explaination that will just confuse the crap out of nelson.

          What “technological explanation” is there for the State losing the chain of custody of a central piece of evidence in a murder case?

          • lovemygirl says:

            What is real to lawyers and Judges are things like chain of custody more than anything. Beauracrats are bureaucrats above and beyond anything logical. If MOM can show they were sloppy in that aspect, the evidence may be thrown out.

            • John Galt says:

              “If MOM can show they were sloppy in that aspect, the evidence may be thrown out.”

              If the phone evidence is exculpatory, BDLR wants it thrown out.

              • Chip Bennett says:

                If the phone evidence is exculpatory, BDLR wants it thrown out.

                And if BDLR did anything to effect exculpatory being adulterated, and thus liable to being thrown out, then he has committed a class-three felony under Florida evidence-tampering statutes.

                • jello333 says:

                  Which is exactly why I keep saying that the main focus of the prosecution is no longer trying to put George behind bars. Now, thanks to many things (phones, Dee Dee(s), Crump, etc), their main focus is to keep themselves from being sanctioned, sued, disbarred, even imprisoned.

                  • Flaladybug says:

                    I completely agree Jello! I think that the more lies and manipulations surrounding this case are coming to light the more desperate the SAO and all those that participated in this fiasco are becoming to find a way out that ends with the least amount of collateral damage. I think Mom/West has taken the position of continuing to give them enough rope…….as a way of getting all the illegal and unethical behavior on record so there is no way to explain it away. I am curious as to your opinion…could the recent developments…possible destruction of evidence, faiures in chain of evidence, and other BLATANT FAILURES under rules of criminal court procedures actually be their way of having the case dismissed or a mistrial declared with as little finger pointing as to who is responsible as possible?? I have a difficult time believing that mistakes of this magnitude are actual MISTAKES!!!

                  • jello333 says:

                    I think at this point, if the prosecution could just make the whole case go away, they would. If MOM/West and everyone else on George’s side were just willing to say “Let bygones be bygones”, I believe the state would happily drop the case. But as it stands now, yeah, I believe it’s the defense who is wanting to keep things going long enough to finish collecting incriminating evidence… evidence of a conspiracy. And if they need to, I have little doubt that the prosecution will find a scapegoat — very likely Ben Crump — and throw him directly under the bus. That would take care of a lot of their problems, especially about how this thing got rolling to begin with. But now it seems to me that even the prosecution has gotten themselves in a bind. Like them secretly taking the phone out of “property” and sending it off to Cali? Wow… I don’t see how they can blame that on Crump. I don’t know their relationships very well, so I can’t say if this is really likely or not, but… I’m wondering if, should the need arise, Corey (and Scott and Bondi) would consider Bernie himself expendable? Hmm…

          • John Galt says:

            “What “technological explanation” is there for the State losing the chain of custody of a central piece of evidence in a murder case?”

            Maybe the same one which explains the missing 2/26 phone data and failure to provide the defense with the 2/26 phone location map.

          • hooson1st says:

            I think that the California examination could have been made with appropriate chain of custody maintained. (I am not saying that it did :) )

            • Chip Bennett says:

              I think that the California examination could have been made with appropriate chain of custody maintained.

              I think the defense’s Motion to Continue effectively implies that the State failed to maintain the chain of custody:

              It became known to the defense that the State Attorney’s Office personnel (not FDLE personnel) had removed Trayvon Martin’s cell phone from the evidence locker at FDLE and sent it to a law enforcement agency somewhere in California for analysis. Defense has repeatedly asked for information on the agency, the analyst and the tests performed on this significant piece of evidence. To date, the State has refused to answer that inquiry, leaving the defense eto resort to deposing someone unknown, to find out who took the phone out of evidence, which was then sent to some unknown agency for some unknown analyst to be performed by some unknown analyst to be returned to some unknown person at the State Attorneys [sic] Office. Surely, the State can be expected to do better…

              At some point in this process, the State attorney’s office removed the phone from FDLE evidence and forwarded it to a law enforcement agency, unknown to the defense at this time, for additional analysis. Seeminging this analysis allowed access to the flash drive in some format, but there has been no report generated to date. The Stat has refused to answer questions regarding this event.

              I assume that the defense has unfettered access to the chain of custody log, that, if maintained properly, would have included most of this information. Thus, the only logical conclusion is that chain of custody was not properly maintained.

              • ejarra says:

                Can’t he just say, “Whoops, my bad?” Then everyone can laugh and go on with the hearing?

                No? Never-mine.

              • libtardh8r says:

                This is the same phone that was sent for fingerprint analysis, an analysis that was cancelled by the State? Something is very hinky with that phone. The defense referred to a map of the phone’s location while TM was in Sanford…suppose the map diverges from places TM was known to be? What if the phone with the heart sticker was sitting in Brandy’s condo while TM was caught on security cams while talking on a different phone at 7-11? Suppose there are prints on the phone that show it belonged to someone else?

                The first time I read the theory that Chad was recording the altercation, I dismissed it out of hand. But the more we learn about the phone, the more it becomes apparent that something is “afoot”.

                Why was the fingerprint analysis cancelled? Who was it that caused the phone to lock by entering an incorrect swipe code repeatedly? Did Tracy Martin or anyone from NOBLE have access to the phone?

                I have to agree with whoever upthread suggested that since, presumably, the defense has access to the chain of custody of the phone (and they haven’t asked for it AFAIK), that the trip to CA isn’t documented there. This alone is enough to disqualify it as a source of evidence. Maybe that is what the prosecution wants.

                Most discussion I have seen assumes that the State sent the phone to Cell-Brite, but my take on it as I read the motion to continue was that the defense had sent it there for an independent forensic examination. I think that the wealth of information referred to was data that turned up in the defense’s examination of the phone. It sounds like the prosecution either never had the phone analyzed or, if they did, are withholding the data. Note that this is exactly what Nifong was busted for. He conspired with the DNA lab to leave out of their analysis that DNA from 5 or so males (none of which were LAX players) was found in the rape kit. He eventually was compelled to turn over the raw data, and a smart lawyer read up on DNA analysis and was able to interpret the data and find this highly exculpatory evidence.

      • eastern2western says:

        It is really odd that the pro-trayvon group does not understand the seriousness of this accusation. If the defense can prove evidence tamperring, the case is practically dead even if they have a tape of zimmerman wearing kkk uniform and chasing down trayvon.

        • libby says:

          if the defense can show the loss of their chain of custody by the persecutors, it will be just one more way the persecution of George Zimmerman has been one massive embarrassment for the state

          • howie says:

            So far I don’t think the defense is disputing any of the objective evidence. Only the interpretation of it, and exclusion of some of it, by the state. For the state to get to a trial they will have to show that the evidence is a prima facia case for murder 2 that a jury should decide. I don’t see it. In fact the more evidence that is pried out, the worse their case gets. The state acts like a guilty defendant.

            • libby says:

              This bears repeating:
              The state acts like a guilty defendant.
              And thet state’s behavior that looks like a defendant?
              There is so much of it, where to begin?
              There was that little photo that they were so afraid the world would see all the way to the ME reports and ping logs that they are so slow to produce (while the media pretends it is the defense that is stalling-the media continues ot be a proxy for the persecution)

              • myopiafree says:

                Any competent engineer, dumping the S/W and data from the RAM would have seen that the Cell-phone went it to safe-mode at a specific time. That “last day”. He would have “called in” his find to his bosses. He would have told them, “…hey, you know that phone stopped working on that last day. It shut itself OFF. I am certain, Bernie thought, “… I’ll PRETEND I did not hear that, or “know that”. Or I hope the DEFENSE is to stupid to figure this out…

      • jello333 says:

        They had to send the phone off to Cali so it’d be safe, since George was trying to find it… trying to hunt it down like a rabid dog. He racially profiled that little phone!

    • jordan2222 says:

      And why was Crump there, too?

  6. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    Yet another example of “rationalisation”

    I hate to use that term…superficially it’s an oxymoron when linked with JQ… there is not much sign of rational thought there. However, I am using it in regards my psychological assessment:

    “an unconscious process that tries to reduce the anxiety associated with instinctive desires”

    In other words a manifestation of an attempt to cope with “Cognitive Dissonance”

    A rational person deals with “new facts” by modifying (or abandoning) their beliefs such that the new facts are not “dissonant” with their beliefs. Not so at JQ… they downplay (or deny) any new facts, and just push on remorselessly with discredited beliefs. It is common with uneducated and not too bright people. It is “irrational”. Taken to the lengths that JQ do, this it is an indicator of a psychological (perhaps psychiatric) problem.

    There are many examples, for instance they first claimed that George attacked TM… when evidence showed that George was in fact attacked by TM, and sustained serious injuries, they down played those injuries as “scratches”, and further “rationalised” that TM had every right to beat up GZ.. etc etc

    Today’s example actually concedes that TM’s full tox report may well add confirmation to ME report of THC in TM’s blood. Of course this is downplayed and “rationalised” to be ok and normal… couldn’t possibly be relevant :D

    Today’s Daft Post is from previously quoted “Data Venia” The Chameleon of JQ experts… today playing the role of Expert Forensic Toxicologist.

    (Apparently DV is claiming to be Male… If true, I assume the fact that he comes across in his posts as a daft old woman is yet another of his assumed roles. So today I quote another post from JQ’s favourite female impersonator Data Venia. (aka “Lola”)

    Random Topics

    http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=21087#p21087

    http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac218/Uther2/Smileys/cockatoo.gif

    • lovemygirl says:

      So Data Venia is the Ru Paul of the Trayvonistas?

        • lovemygirl says:

          I won’t sleep well this morning, do I dare explain the Rocky Horror Picture Show to my daughter 8 years from now or will she just laugh at me if I tried?

          • auscitizenmom says:

            I had heard about this movie when I was younger, but really knew nothing about it. When my son was 9 he asked to see it and being naive, I rented it and started watching. Imagine my horror when I realized what was going on. I had a hard time explaining why we couldn’t finish it. He was loving the music.

            • jello333 says:

              Well, we did more than that. Our two kids were about that age when they first saw it. Only it wasn’t at home…. no, we saw it at a theatre…. midnight movie thing. You know all about the audience participation stuff, I assume. Yeah, just imagine… you’re a pre-teen kid in a theatre, and you get to yell, throw things, dance around, shoot squirtguns, etc, etc. So yeah, my kids LOVED it! Oh, and don’t worry… they grew up just fine, not wArPeD at all. ;)

              • arkansasmimi says:

                LMBO I was a SR in High School, and some friends wanted me to go with them. I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT> I still laugh as hard as I did then thinking about it. It truly was a sight. It def is a MOVIE THEATER viewing.

          • auscitizenmom says:

            Oh, by the way, he is now grown and married and evidently wasn’t scarred by the experience when he was 9. Ha

            • rumpole2 says:

              It was a “Cult” Movie when I was working at University…. Years after the Movie was first released…there were theatres around who ran the movie every week (Usually at midnight) for month after month, and at almost every University social event there would be a showing (after midnight). A lot of audience participation goes on.. people dress up to go see it, and there are stock reactions for certain scenes. eg when Brad and Janet get out of car and Janet puts a newspaper on her head to ward off rain… people watching the movie but a newspaper (that they bring along with other props) on their heads…. some bring water pistols as well :D
              Everybody sings along… some do the “Time Warp dance” etc
              It’s a bit like a Halloween party I guess?

              There is a LOT of fun associated with the movie…. the actual “goings on” are not taken at all seriously. My daughter was a teenager at the time I am talking about… she and all her friends were into the movie… she grew up OK :D

    • jello333 says:

      Ooh, breath mints… our lips are so close!

      Not if you was the last immigrant grocer on earth… honey!

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      I hate to be the ONE person who always HAS to mention the obvious, BUT, doesn’t that idiot realize that dead people don’t breath?

  7. lovemygirl says:

    I should not mention the Leatherheads but Pappa has another video that they drool over, WOW, they are so fricken stupid.

    • sunnydaze77 says:

      Agree, I use to read some of the Leatherheads just for laughs,,,,,,,,,,, I stopped tho, garbage in garbage out

    • nettles18 says:

      I just read my first Leatherman’s blog post. He has convinced some that the missing data from the phone is being held back by the prosecution so that they can given TM a Happy Birthday Surprise in open court on Feb. 5th.

      He went on to insult his readers by telling them when they say this, you say that. Judging from the comments of some readers, I don’t think he offended his followers with telling them what to think and say. Go figure.

      • lovemygirl says:

        Hey Nettles, welcome. Please don’t go down the path many of us have. The kooks over there and there and there are still kudos. People here want the truth. Many spend countless hours looking and discovering the truth. You seem to not only be capable but earnest about your research. There is so much researched in the past by people on this site that it seems overwhelming but the facts are there.

      • lovemygirl says:

        I’ll leave it up to you, but those that have researched Leatherhead have found out he was never a professor, never a consultant to the OJ, Green River murder etc. trials and in fact never made it as a lawyer. He lost his licence decades ago, his wife served time, he was broke and started a blog. Basically, a real loser, not worth researching.

      • nettles18 says:

        Thanks for the heads up. Over the past few days I’ve been being welcomed to the treehouse but the truth is I have been here since early May I think. It was the George Zimmerman case that drew me to the site. I have read most of the threads over that time and the only thing that I’ve personally disagreed with was the criticism of Mr. O’Mara. I’m a fan so far. I mentioned I was new to WordPress a few days ago and some took that to mean I was new to this site.

        I was the subject of a thread here back in October. At that time, I was the most hated GZ supporter on facebook for outing a private email that the defense team sent to another supporter. It got passed around and I saw it and posted it in a private group on facebook.
        http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/23/looney-tunes-and-general-sillyness/

        Trent Sawyer was upset with me at the time and he vowed to “get” me. He and the dog pound were trying to convince Frances Robles that I was a regular poster at the Treehouse. They had campaigned to her that the treehouse was a racist controversial site and she bought the story. Therefore, the story got spun that the legal team sent a request for help to a bunch of racists. Frances Robles who was getting to know me personally through emails chose not to name me in the article but did tie me to this site and inferred Mr. O’Mara is seeking help from racists. I told Ms. Robles after her article ran that it was likely the owner of the site, Sundance, didn’t know me from Adam. I was right. I informed her I also post at Talk Left, the Miami Herald, The Orlando Sentinel and that I am a liberal not a conservative. So why was that left out?

        To my utter surprise Ms. Robles gave the activists (Trent and the dog pound) a voice in her article “The hearing comes three days after activists revealed that O’Mara’s firm reached out to Zimmerman supporters on the web for help preparing for Friday’s motion. An email leaked on Facebook by a commenter on a conservative website showed O’Mara – or more likely one of his employees – asked supporters to scour the Internet to help come up with any potentially questionable statements O’Mara made since taking the case.”

        “People who support the murder charges spread the email around on Twitter, arguing that the note shows O’Mara takes cues for his case from right-wing bloggers, some of whom have made racially insensitive remarks about the Martin family and portrayed the teen as a thug.” Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/25/3067603/sanford-court-hearing-set-on-gag.html#storylink=cpy

        Ms. Robles emboldened the activists and the twitter harassment became intense. The defense team prevailed in the gag order motion and after a few weeks it all died down.

        Back in May, Ms. Robles picked up on of my facebook posts and printed one in the paper along with my real name. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/11/2794656/trayvon-martins-mother-got-about.html “George, I’ll be donating monthly,” Facebook user Annette Elaine Kelly of Ontario posted on the Facebook page O’Mara set up for the case. “I hope that you have been truthful (I believe you have) and that people will give you a fair hearing. Take care.”

        At first I was freaked out and thought about not posting. Upon reflection, I knew I had to be brave. George Zimmerman was being railroaded and the few voices in his favor were under threat and intimidation to be silent.

        To speak out on the case I’ve been harassed, threatened, bullied, my workplace contacted, the charity I give time has been sent correspondence to not accept donations of food from a racist. It hasn’t silence my voice and it won’t. What is being done to George Zimmerman is a disgrace and must be brought to everyone’s attention.

        I wasn’t surprised to see Sundance’s warning to be careful there was a spike in threats after you all welcomed me a few days ago. In those activists minds Sundance and I are practically engaged.

        • thefirstab says:

          nettles – I THOUGHT I had remembered you from back then (didn’t have time to check)
          Welcome back!! And Bless You for staying the course. Hate to hear of the harrassment, tho.
          IMO, what you have posted is the best defensive strategy for social media. Transparency.
          Applebee’s could take some lessons from you.

        • hooson1st says:

          nettles:

          What is your evaluation of Roble’s reporting in general about this case?

          • nettles18 says:

            I think she been unbalanced in her reporting. Heavily in favor of the PR narrative and doesn’t given GZ the benefit of the presumption of innocent. There is no better example than when she characterized GZ telling donors he would send thank you cards that he was selling his autograph for money.

            • libby says:

              proxie for the persecution

            • nettles18 says:

              Not only did Ms. Robles characterize GZ supporters as right-wing racists but she tweeted we were Trayvon Martin haters at the time of the email scandal. I responded to her I found her characterizations of me and the others I post with offensive and inaccurate. She was allowing the activists to define us.

              Ms. Robles responded in an email to me that this story wasn’t about her or me. It was about Mr. O’Mara asking supporters for help in the case. In her mind, that was inappropriate.

              As Mr. O’Mara rightly pointed out in the hearing on the gag order, if a lawyer isn’t using the internet to help his client, he’d be creating a case for malpractise.

          • nettles18 says:

            I think she been unbalanced in her reporting. Heavily in favor of the PR narrative and doesn’t given GZ the benefit of the presumption of innocent. There is no better example than when she characterized GZ telling donors he would send thank you cards that he was selling his autograph for money.

        • ejarra says:

          I also remember that posting. I remember that I did not know who you were and what all the fuss was about. But boy, am I glad you’re hear now. This also makes sense as to why they twitter you being on MOM’s payroll. LOL!

        • Sha says:

          nettles : You are a very brave lady ! God Bless You for standing up for George and for what is right . People like Trent and the dog pound and the JQ crowd will always be bitter hateful people who think there are no consequences to there mouth are actions. It will always be someone elses fault for every bad decision they make in there life. They will mess up and threaten the wrong person one day.

          • nettles18 says:

            They have told the reporters that GZ supporters are racist and that we attack, threaten and harass. And only when they are threatened or harassed back do they retaliate. I can promise you, I stand by all my posts. I am not a racist and I’ve never said a nasty word online against any of them. Most of their hate for me comes from my questioning on facebook the inconsistencies of the parents and their stories. Every time I mention the poor parenting I’m seeing I get attacked for trashing a dead kid. Theirs words, not mine. I didn’t make Tracy father so many kids with so many women. Their anger at that fact being brought forward is misdirected in my opinion. In any case, I’ll concentrate on shining a light on the GZ case and not those who don’t like me. Thanks again for your kind words.

        • jordan2222 says:

          A bit off topic but this is not the first time I have heard this/

          “Don’t forget there are two people who need to be taken care of here,”

          Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/11/2794656_p2/trayvon-martins-mother-got-about.html#storylink=cpy

          • nettles18 says:

            Yes they wanted to remind people Tracy needed donations too.

          • HughStone says:

            Let me finish that quote.
            “Don’t forget there are two people who need to be taken care of here,” Hall said.

            Hers another we need to pay attention to.

            “Anytime some tragedy happens in society, you don’t know what impact it will have,” said Marlon Hill, the attorney who helped set up the foundation. “The whole intention of this foundation was to speak to the broader issues. We are using it as an opportunity to do something positive.”

            Who is Marlon Hall?
            Barack Obama Campaign Bundler

            “This is different candidate. It’s a different time,” said Miami bundler Marlon Hill, who said he’s one of the old-line bundlers who is throwing himself back into the breach. “We’ll be working harder than in 2008.”

            Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59517_Page3.html#ixzz2JrqYOP7B

            “$50,000 $100,000 Hill, Marlon Miami FL Delancy Hill PA 1,650″

            http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59517_Page3.html

            I guess 100,000 will get ANYBODY to show Travon Martin rally.

            If this was covered already, I missed it.

        • jello333 says:

          Glad you posted this, because I kinda knew about part of it for awhile now, but I of course wasn’t gonna say a thing. Now we don’t have to worry about it, about the scumbags trying to hold some “deep dark secret” over your head or whatever. ;) Everyone here admires you for your logic and research skills, but that’s not the only reason.

        • sundance says:

          Nettles, thank you for sharing; and a BIG thank you for the perspectives, well thought out insights, and fact-based constructive contributions you have brought to this case.

          Not only are your perspectives insightful, they are also highly articulate and in my opinion considerably insightful.

          Now some general FYI’s that I think might frame a better understanding….

          From the outset of this case, it was obvious to many people that something was not passing the sniff test – hence much of the initial research into the people producing the narrative began (with research by the admin team and myself). Two distinct approaches.

          First: How was the “Scheme” being coordinated? – hence much background Ryan Julison research.

          Second: Why was a “Scheme” being manufactured? – hence the background of the players and creators of the “Scheme Team”, and subsequent narrative.

          It was obvious that nothing of the original LEO investigation was aligning with their narrative except for the “manufactured media evidence” from the Schemers (See: DeeDee) Note: This was all prior to Mark O’Mara taking the case after consult with friend and colleague Mark NeJame.

          Once we began exposing the “Scheme”, and as a direct consequence of Ryan Julison trying to get out front of our research, our site had a choice to make. We choose to NOT engage any participant in either the “Scheme Team” – Or “The Defense Team”, this allowed us to retain objective distance and no conflicts.

          The Treehouse has never had any contact with any member of the prosecution or defense legal teams. None. The only person we have had contact with is Ryan Julison, who is not a party to legal proceedings, and every communication with him has been shared openly, and visibly, on the site.

          The research we have shared is available for anyone to witness. In addition all citations are included to show that anyone who wanted to find the TRUTH of this case, could do it quite easily…. [looking at you media]…

          The Treehouse research became a risk to the “Schemers” because it exposes the raw truth of the situation surrounding the false persecution. Within that risk multiple parties with a vested interest have found cause to label, diminish, obfuscate and ridicule. Why? Because their professional livlihoods, by their choice, are attached to the outcome of this case. Including, but not limited to, their abject loss of credibility in front of the entire nation.

          That is why I wrote the post many, many months ago “you think all these people are going to stop – not likely”

          The opposing forces to George Zimmerman’s freedom are “all-in”, they passed the point of no-return in May and June of 2012. Now their very livlihoods, their fortunes, their credibility is on the line….. They are rabid, hate-filled, toxic, race-based, vitriolic and will seek to destroy anyone who exposes them.

          Wolverines !

          • nettles18 says:

            Thank you. Should I be scared? ;)

            • sundance says:

              No. You have truth on your side. This key point is what some, perhaps most, forget. It is also the key point that Mark O’Mara took 7 months to understand.

              If George Zimmerman, Shellie Zimmerman, Gladys Zimmerman, Robert Zimmerman, and Robert Jr. can withstand the pressure of the hate, look bravely into the furnace of rabid animosity and find strength in the TRUTH…. Then everyone else just needs to ‘buck up” and KBO – Keep Buggerin’ On. Step Boldy Into The Breach.

              Besides, we’ve got your six.

              Wolverines !

            • Sharon says:

              No more than anyone else involved in looking at truth! For decades, the frauds had the largest megaphones and were not being directly challenged. Now they are. They don’t like it. Many of us here are in an open-ended process of developing ever-thicker skin and practicing the art of personal courage in response to attacks and threats. It’s interesting.
              :) (Like WW II was interesting)

              • jello333 says:

                A few days ago I told my wife about this…. how some of the crazies seem to be getting even crazier. How the threats are getting more frequent, and sometimes more detailed, and that I recently had one directed at me personally for the first time. I told her how some of those people seem to be trying to learn the real-life identities and locales of people like us. I told her that when things finally go south with this case, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of the crazies try to physically go after people like us. After all that, I expected my wife to be scared, and tell me I shouldn’t be so involved in this. But instead she just said, “Oh yeah? Let ‘em try something!” I have NO idea what she has in mind. ;)

                • Sharon says:

                  Suggestion: find out what she has in mind, and have a conversation testing the limits and qualities of it.

                  Whether in this context or some other, eventually I suspect many of us will be facing literal situations that require us to take action.

          • howie says:

            They are betting all in on a Busted Flush.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        He has convinced some that the missing data from the phone is being held back by the prosecution so that they can given TM a Happy Birthday Surprise in open court on Feb. 5th.

        Leatherhead does know what a Brady violation is, right? I mean, even assuming that he doesn’t grasp Rule 3.220?

        BDLR has proven himself willing to play fast and loose with fact versus speculation, but I’m not certain even he has enough hubris (or stupidity) to set himself up for such a blatant violation, despite the hopes and dreams of the fever swamp.

        • John Galt says:

          OOOPS, we accidentally erased the 2/26 phone data. Don’t know if it was exculpatory or not. Sorry. But we’d still like to go to trial in June.

          http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1531698.html

          • Chip Bennett says:

            OOOPS, we accidentally erased the 2/26 phone data. Don’t know if it was exculpatory or not.

            To anyone with even a modicum of understanding of such data erasure, the fact that this specific set of data are missing is explicit evidence that its absence is intentional.

            Thus, I agree that Zimmerman may be at the mercy of the technological savvy of the court on this matter.

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Chip – Thanks. There are only two conclusions – and we might disagree. I believe that the battery put the phone in “Safe Mode” in the last 30 minutes – or for a longer period of time. That would explain the “missing data” in the “Flash Memory”. I don’t think the California firm would go so for as to attempt to “selectively erase” the last day of that “Flash Drive”. A careful “expert” review COULD establish that the missing data was due to “Safe Mode” on that Heart Cell. In either event, DeeDee’s-Crump’s lies must be thrown out. This means that there is no “ear witness”, and on the basis of the evidence, TM violently attacked George, and attempted to beat his head into the cement, until George had no choice but to shoot TM to save his own life. IMHO.

            • John Galt says:

              OK, this is probably way too optimistic, but:

              Maybe they are holding back a few things because of an ongoing investigation: the phone data, the phone location map, the identity of the California agency, and the information regarding the August DD interview.

          • howie says:

            Just ask Richard Nixon.

        • ejarra says:

          But… but… but… He’s a world renowned lawyer! He MUST know of the “Brady Rule”! I know, this is the only exception to it. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

      • hooson1st says:

        Following nettles18 lead, I took my first look at Leatherman’s blog post (after first being misdirected to Amazon.com and then to some bdsm site, but anyway)

        He posits that BDLR will sandbag MOM/West with some data from the cell phone for the 26th of February, while forgetting that such an act by BDLR;,i.e., withholding Feb 26 data from defense, would be exhibit A as to the games being played in the entire discovery process by the prosecution.

      • brutalhonesty says:

        “so that they can given TM a Happy Birthday Surprise in open court on Feb. 5th.” natalie jackson tweeted to the same effect

    • diwataman says:

      Oh good grief, is he really rehashing that? They do love to swim in the realm of ambiguity and try to form it into some crapola that favors their side. That’s why the clubhouse tapes and more-so the “punks”/”coons” thing, is so effective, they can make it into what they want.

      This is what I hear from Jeremy; “isemoorshenearne”

      And gee, maybe she was yelling at him to not go outside because maybe he was near or in the enclosed, screened in, back porch with the closed wooden blinds and locked doors, probably some sort of deadbolt and another lock or two, and she yelled at him to get back in the kitchen as they made their way in there from the living room where they were watching T.V., where the sofas are closer to the back porch, where she was talking to 911 and he began to look for a weapon, like a knife or something to use as a weapon because he was contemplating going out there then they went upstairs. And when asked directly he said he was about to but didn’t because the distress in the voice got more serious so thought otherwise.

      Now I could just be making that up or I could have listened to the interviews of her and Jeremy.

      • lovemygirl says:

        I couldn’t even understand what his point was with Jeremy. It seems W11 and Jeremy agreed with George’s account so I have no idea what Loser Pappa is even hinting about. Dang, what was his point in that video anyways? W11 and her beau agree with George, is this a Cabbage Patch incident?

        • diwataman says:

          lamepapa’s main tactic is to insinuate through juxtaposition, cherry picking and often times music appropriate to the insinuation. The idea being in this particular one that George warned Jeremy to get inside or he’ll shoot him too, or because good ol Georgy got did and don’t need no help, you know, something like; “I’ll take care of this negra, you go back inside”, anything to that effect or some variation thereof, perhaps it can slip into Jeremy the accomplice depending on their mood, your pick as always.

          • lovemygirl says:

            Oh my, his entire point was that was George threatening a witness? A witness that never claimed it and a witness that supports George? Must have been a .50 Cal M107A1 that Feinstein explicitly wants banned. – ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (big booms she does not like but I do as does my daughter)

            • diwataman says:

              Could be, like I said it’s your pick really. Could be that he threatened him. Could be that he was taking charge and didn’t need no help. Could be he was telling him he was about to shoot the little child for carrying skittles and iced tea and he didn’t want to accidentally hit Jeremy. Could be Jeremy was an accomplice. Lots of stuff like that. Depending on their mood or argument it may change to one thing or the other.

  8. boutis says:

    The media feeds on outrage. The more outrage that is generated the better the ratings, the better the ratings the more money raked in. The outrage is addictive. It produces emotional and psychological benefits to those who regularly partake. If nothing is readily available they will make something up, imagine a wrong, pick a fight to get their “fix” to be angry, furious and outraged. It is the antithesis of reason and logic. An angry person is much less likely to be logical and listen to reason (or facts) and much easier to manipulate. The recent internet sensation of the mall cop in Atlanta is an excellent example of a person looking for a way to become outraged. The meltdown was prompted by “watch your kids”. It could have been over “pick up the gum wrapper” or “what bus are your taking” the reaction would have been the same. It doesn’t matter what West/MOM or the judge do on Tuesday because there will be outrage. It is not what is going on in the case that matters, it is the emotional rewards received of being outraged. It fills a void.

  9. Angel says:

    So over people citing GZ’s injuries were not life threatening and blah blah blah. It doesn’t matter about the severity of injuries in the aftermath. Once you put your hands on me, I don’t know what your intentions are and I don’t have to beaten to death allowing someone else to determine what happens to me if I am able to defend myself. Once you strike me, all bets are off. Saving one’s life is not a matter of rationalization; its instinctual.

    • lovemygirl says:

      As Massad Ayoob pointed out many times, it isn’t the blows you have taken, but what the next one may bring. Gee, if you have already suffered life threatening wounds it is too late, you now will die. The point is to avoid death or disabling injuries.

    • Sha says:

      I agree Angel….. You can talk all the junk you wont but the minute you put your hands on me it’s on. Words are just words but when you strike someone you take it to a different level.

  10. lovemygirl says:

    I just found another top 10 list and as an H&K guy I liked it. I’m also a serious 1911 custom fan, but anything on this list is serious. My personal favorites are both a 12 gauge tactical shotgun and a .45 ACP.
    1. Heckler & Koch HK45
    2. Beretta Px4 Storm
    3. Taurus 24/7 45 ACP OSS
    4. Glock 21
    5. Springfield XD(M) 4

  11. diwataman says:

    Regarding Fred and his post about the GPS data.

    I guess it should be to no ones surprise they try to twist this into something that will hurt George’s case and adding, of course, shifting all the discovery issues onto O’Mara’s shoulders, even loving the fact that it’s all a fun little game. I’m not naive of course about such things, I realize our judicial system is often run on many things other than actual justice but this is something that ought to be condemned, not celebrated.

    It’s really simple to me. Make your case. That’s it. If you believe in what you say then make your case. If that requires you to play games instead of offering clearly why you believe what you believe than I have no time for you and you ought to be dismissed. That ought to be the spirit and guiding light of our judicial system; openness, clarity and why one believes what one believes. But that’s not what we get from this prosecution.

    Glaringly omitted from Fred’s post is the fact that some mystery person from Corey’s office took the phone from the FDLE, sent it to some mystery law enforcement agency, where apparently they were able to get passed the lock out feature of the phone, from the password being entered too many times, which then would have allowed access to the internal memory. From my reading of the motion, it seems that this happened sometime within the several weeks after September 26th, 2012.

    One question at this point is why, after having the phone for six months, is the prosecution only now doing this?

    Then of course the state says nothing to the defense about doing what they did and of course they give nothing to the defense about it or what they were able to do and of course they refuse to say anything when asked. Oh, but that’s okay you see, because this is all just a fun little game, it’s not like sometimes people’s lives are stake with death penalties and such, nah, it’s just a fun little game.

    The story of the phone really just gets worse from there and I could write pages of it in relation to the other sides thoughts on the matter but this comment will just go on entirely too long. Their main point comes down to saying the GPS data will show George is lying, of course it will, everything does, well at least in their viewpoint. To elaborate, it will show that Trayvon came in through the other path that’s NW of Frank’s place and not the one by his house, which is why the FBI said to him, stated by Frank in a video made by that Dave guy, they think it was the other path. I suppose it must be the FBI has has Tayvons GPS data all along and just likes to keep that hidden away in their little files like the state. There’s other stuff they throw in about it but you get the point.

    Here’s where they really screw up though. Let me put it like this. They think that if it were absolutely proven, without a doubt, like let’s say George had a bunch a racist text messages and even admitted to hunting down and murdering Trayvon in cold blood, that somehow that would be some big blow to someone like me. They, in a sense, are dismissing my work, though not directly, based on George’s guilt. My how does that ever miss the point. And this is why I’ve always said, my friends, that this is not about the George Zimmerman case nor George himself.

    • boutis says:

      They are not interested in process. They are interested in agendas, how they think those agendas benefit them (which doesn’t have to make sense) and the emotional reward they get from it. Government is process. Law is process. Emotional agendas with emotional rewards are chaos. I got interested in this case because warning bells were going off with the very strange behavior of the mayor and city manager. They were putting the city at legal and financial risk which is a direct violation of their job and sworn oath. It simply is not done. The same goes for the governor of Florida and his Attorney General. When all is said and done it is a massive failure by public officials.

    • thehoff71 says:

      What he also fails to tell his bobbleheads, that Bernie just can’t spring a surprise on O’Mara in the middle of a hearing. If he has impeachable evidence against George he HAS to give it to the Defense. How did this guy practice law for 30 years? I don’t get it.

    • justfactsplz says:

      I think the prosecution saw that the DeeDee narrative was about to be exposed so they thought “Oh, sh1t, we better see what is really in that phone”. They didn’t like what they found so all of a sudden, bam, missing data for the 26th.

      • howie says:

        I have been wondering about that too.They must have it someplace. Unless the phone was dead or the battery out of it. But then how could it make a call? Or can the card just be switched?

        • justfactsplz says:

          I don’t think that phone made or received a call during that time frame. I don’t know about swithching cards. In the false narrative they had Chad and the cousin saying Trayvon was on the phone a lot to his girlfriend. They knew he wasn’t but were coached to say that. What a terrible tangled web they weave.

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Just Facts – It is possible that TM talked to SOMEONE on that day. But the “safe-mode” shut the phone OFF at least by 6:30. (Reviewing the flash-drive would record the TIME of the last call. It might even record the TIME that the phone shut itself off. The engineers that designed the phone – could tell you that.

            • justfactsplz says:

              I firmly believe that it will be proven that Trayvon was not using that phone found at the scene marked #7.

              • myopiafree says:

                Yes – remember when DeeDee said that “Trayvon was PUSHED”, and that she heard, “Get off me”, and then heard the “ear buds” falling from TM’s ears – and then she “heard grass”?? What a realistic story she told – except the phone was not working.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  It’s kind of funny put in the context you did. If the prosecution ever believed this crock of you know what, they have no intelligence whatsoever.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Well said, D-Man. “And this is why I’ve always said, my friends, that this is not about the George Zimmerman case nor George himself.”

    • nettles18 says:

      I’m very interested to learn why the State did not start looking at the data the phone provided until late September. I find that incredible and can’t for the life of me come up with a reason why they didn’t want this info. before they made a charge against someone.

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Nettles – George was innocent. All the reasonable evidence SAID IT THAT WAY – as you know. But Crump wanted a TRIAL. So he brought incredible pressure on “the STATE” to generate FALSE CHARGES – and he succeeded. This is a pure POLITICAL TRIAL, not an honest JUDICIAL TRIAL. Corey certainly looked at George’s smashed an bloody face. But she thought, “…what the hell… charge him anyway”. This is where Lying-Crump had to come up with a lying-witness, and then HIDE THE WITNESS. So Bernie “played along with it”, But like the exculpatory DNA evidence in the Duke students – he had to deny-surpress it FROM THE DEFENSE. So that is EXACTLY WHAT HE DID. Dishonest as hell – but he felt his “boss” thought he should do it – for the benifit of the “Black Community” and BGI generally. Only time will tell how accurate the above assessment is about Crump’s and Bernie’s actions.

        • hooson1st says:

          While politics has pushed this along the present trajectory, what is taking place now in the courts is a judicial proceeding, and not a political one.

          It will be decided on the basis of the facts, evidence, and law.

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Hooson – I see you are a “true believer”. This will be “decided” the way the Nifong-Student case was decided. That was when they found that the “hooker” was lying, and Nifong promoted that lie to conduct rogue prosecution against the Duke students. I hope Bernie-Corey got that message. Sometime truth exists OUTSIDE THE COURT ROOM, and politics plays a major role in a malicious prosecution case. The prosecutors have immense power – to destroy.

            • hooson1st says:

              Nothing truly worthwhile comes with ease. It is usually a painful process.

              The Zimmerman case is a seminal legal case, following up on the Duke/Nifong case, where the overreach in the legal arena in terms of righting society’s past wrongs is coming to the public fore.

              Whatever course this case takes, ultimately I think that GZ will be absolved. It will all played out in public view and within the realm of our judicial system.

          • howie says:

            I am confused about a couple things. For one. It seems the state is claiming that the Zimmerman statements are unreliable as part of their case. The credibility issue. But on the other they rely on the statements to make their case. How can they have it both ways? First they have to say all these statements are unreliable. They they have to say they want them admitted as evidence. The same with all the witnesses they got to modify their on the scene statements. It is just hard to figger. With all the different statements and no physical evidence to back it up. And now if the phone evidence is unreliable it will get even worse.

            • hooson1st says:

              That is a weakness, and they have to come up with external evidence to support whatever they try to cherry pick from the GZ statements, and then make it seem a coherent explanation.

              • howie says:

                I did not know they can proclaim a statement unreliable-not credible and then say that only this part is reliable. The rest is rubbish. So then they have to claim George is reliable here but not there if it fits their plan. Phew! That stinks.

      • hooson1st says:

        They felt they had enough to go forward at that time plus there was a lot of political pressure.

        • myopiafree says:

          Hi Hooson – The justice system is SUPPOSED TO BE FREE OF BIAS – AND POLITICAL PRESSURE. Remember the statue of “blind justice” – or have we forgotten the concept – along the way?

          • hooson1st says:

            myopiafree

            You are totally correct.

            However we, mere mortals, you and I and all the Treepers have to deal with the system as it is.

            As for the “concept”, I guess it all depends on (to borrow a Clintonian phrase) what “concept” means to our friends. :)

      • howie says:

        Maybe they are just lazy.

      • jello333 says:

        My opinion? They already knew, through other means, pretty much what they would find and not find on the phone. And they had known this for a long time. But in order to have plausible deniability they chose to just ignore the phone… to NOT find out what was on it. And of course they were keeping it hidden from the defense at the same time. So I don’t remember the exact dates of different motions and emails between the parties, but maybe it wasn’t until September that the prosecution finally realized they WERE soon gonna have to hand it over to the defense. And so it was only then that they thought, “Well, here goes, we’re finally gonna have to look at this.”

        • nettles18 says:

          Does that send chills up your spine that those with the power to bring such serious charges against a citizen would handle the investigation in this manner? I think I need a sweater.

          • sundance says:

            Hence, OUR Treehouse engagement. This is, after all, THE LAST REFUGE.

            This was not a fight the Treehouse picked. This was a fight that picked The Treehouse.

            Wolverines !

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Nettles – I have been at the the “TreeHouse” early in this investigation. When they said the “battery was dead” – I knew it was in “safe mode”, and TM could not have been talking to anyone in that last 30 minutes (not fully confirmed – yet). But, that is the way this case “shakes out”. Only by Walther asking for the “Ping Logs” – did we accomplish this review. Bernie and Corey had ALL THE EVIDENCE – in clear format – from the beginning. But the Gov wanted a political trial – and FORGET HONEST JUSTICE IN THIS CASE. This is a trial for political reasons (prevent a THUG RIOT), and it is pure political farce. It is identical to the NiFong farce, black woman lies – in effort to convict an innocent person. Same-old, same-old.

          • jordan2222 says:

            I do not take that lightly. I have read a lot about others being railroaded in the past but have never actually been involved in a case like this as it unfolds.

        • justfactsplz says:

          They had to know because there were investigators who knew. And now their hand is being called on it.Enough information was obtained on that phone long before it was sent to California to tell the story of what was going on here.

          • woohoowee says:

            Hi JustFacts,

            Does anyone know if the heart sticker phone had been reported lost or stolen?

            I understand if ya can’t answer, but if ya can -TIA :-)

            • justfactsplz says:

              I don’t know which, whether it was lost or stolen. It was ruled out as belonging to anyone in the case from my understanding. I believe it may have not been used for awhile.

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Woo – I don’t think we got an honest answer – yet. There were two phones – one belonged to TM, and the “Heart” phone. The important phone is obviously the one that he had in the last 30 minutes. That phone had the dead battery when it was picked up by LE.

    • howie says:

      He must have brought in Theodoric of York to plan the bleeding of defense funds.

  12. lovemygirl says:

    Oh my, every time I promise to avoid interacting with the loons I read about others getting harrassed. Nettles mentioned an article back in October, I saw a kooky site mentioned, when I went there, I did have a sign in. Well they were all over the Trayvon anniversary and acting like they knew the punk. I said something nasty, “Good Riddance”. Yes it was immature but thank goodness there was a breath of foul air for a moment. These people act like Trayvon was Mother Teresa rather than a Miami punk that twittered things I would actually slap my children for saying.

  13. lovemygirl says:

    Just found a site, don’t know it well but I enjoyed their rules of war.
    #15 The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions: a. When they’re ready. b. When you’re not

    http://xbradtc.com/rules-of-combat/

    What got me there was :
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ro1FKNRvHSM/THPvK3_HlUI/AAAAAAAAC0k/mPov4uDyU9k/s1600/coffee.truck.pilot.jpg

  14. LadyRavenSDC says:

    “Maggie’s Notebook Posts About Trayvon Martin, Get’s Email From Department of Justice”
    http://grumpyelder.com/58585

    • ytz4mee says:

      Thanks for posting this. The DOJ is out of control, as are the Traydemarkistas.
      “Just US” department, indeed.

      • HughStone says:

        I wonder if “they” are watching us on this site.

      • jello333 says:

        If what that Maggie’s Notebook person said it true, I don’t understand why they got an email from the DOJ. So that part is definitely weird. But as for the text of the email itself, it’s no big deal. Pretty sure it’s just a form letter they’ve been using for many months in replies to ANYTHING a person might write to them re. the case.

        • jello333 says:

          Hahaha! Just as I suspected. That email to Maggie’s Notebook from the DOJ is just a form letter…. something they’ve been sending out since way back in March! But if sure got Bigboi and her guys excited. She posted a copy of it, and then tweeted this:

          “For those who might think the DOJ investigation is closed, you have another thought coming. This came to a nutter.”
          ;) ;)

  15. myopiafree says:

    How INNOCENT PEOPLE are accused by FALSE EVIDENCE, and forced to DEFEND themselves against a LYING ROGUE prosecutor. This is no different than Bernnie’s work to surpress the fact that the “Heart Cell Phone’ as NOT OPERATIVE in the last 40 minutes.

    This is a bit long – but it is VERY instructive. I wonder if Bernie will admit to his “rogue” prosecution of the innocent George Zimmerman.

    • howie says:

      If they had found that out they would have had to drop anything connected with the phone. They have to have some basis to continue. That is what the whole case is based on. Ear witness over that phone.

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Howie, Like NiFong’s MISSING DNA “evidence”, Corey-Bernie have MISSING PHONE “evidence”. This is NO CASE AGAINST George Zimmerman at all. Like the lying “hooker” promoted by NiFong, Bernie is promoting the lying “DeeDee” to conduct his malicious prosecution of George. IMHO.

        • howie says:

          If I understand that means they have to come up with the evidence. one way or another? It can’t just be missing. They have the bills but no records on the phone itself?

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Howie – What has to happen – is that they need to go directly to the phone company itself – and sopena the records. They also need to get the “Tower” ping logs to PROVEN that that “Heart” phone was ACTUALLY WORKING – when there is proof that IT WAS NOT WORKING. It is that detail that is the responsibility of the STATE to obtain. But they are not doing it.

            • John Galt says:

              “They also need to get the “Tower” ping logs to PROVEN that that “Heart” phone was ACTUALLY WORKING”

              They apparently did.

              http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/tmobilemarch27.pdf

              • howie says:

                Is T-Mobile the California lab?

              • myopiafree says:

                Hi John – Yes through March 1. That is great, the TM was still “taking” on March 1?? No the report states they “go the data”. But we still have no idea what was IN THE DATA!
                We still need to know WHY the last day was “wiped”, or if the Cell shut down in “safe mode”. It is very easy to “hide” data like this – from the DEFENSE. I suspect that is the real nature of this problem.

              • jello333 says:

                I just realized that I may be looking at all this phone stuff differently than some others are. Because when I read that doc you linked to, or when I hear about the missing data on the phone sent to Cali, or when I look at supposed phone records that Crump was waving around, etc, etc — whenever I hear about ANY of that, I do NOT bother trying to link it (in my mind) with any particular phone. The whole thing is so confusing, that I feel it’s limiting to think of THIS info as being related to the “heart” phone, while THAT info is related to some other phone that may have been elsewhere, on and on. In other words, as far as I’m concerned, there are at least 2, and maybe more phones in play here, and the info we’re seeing and hearing about could be regarding any one of those phones.

                • myopiafree says:

                  Hi Jello – I appreciate that we are a “mix” of people – interested in this subject. I an an engineer, and worked on satellites – and there electrical systems. Thus the term “safe mode” – or lowest power possible. The “missing data” started when the phone was reported with a DEAD BATTERY. Then it got worse when they said it needed a “pass word”, Then worse still when they said that they could not get “flash memory”. This are technical lies – to hide was could be revealed by that simple cell-phone dump. But you are correct – there are so many lies – you don’t know which lie to believe. But, we still need proof that the “heart” was not dead – in that last 30 minutes. I rather think that is was “not working” and that the people who “dumped” memory – know for certain the exact time the phone went into “safe mode”. They just don’t want to tell the defense that THEY KNOW, or prosecution does not WANT TO KNOW – FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  There are at least two phones in play here and that is not counting the rest of the Martin, Fulton, Brandi clan’s phones. Omara is on top of the phones and what is going on. He is building a case both criminal and civil at this point. I don’t think the prosecution ever thought that George would not plea. I think when it hit them that he was in it to win it they had Shellie arrested for perjury to use as leverage. Evil, evil, people, the whole lot ot them.

                  • woohoowee says:

                    Hey again JFP :-)

                    If Trayvon’s phone was ever with him during his stay at Brandy’s, does anyone know if it was on him @ the ” IT and Skillets” store? If so, does anyone know how it ended up not on his person at the time of his demise?

                    I’d like to see Scott, Bondi, Corey and BDLR arrested! Holdup, er, Holder, too! And yeah, President Chair, also. But would settle for just the first four mentioned, for now.

                  • ejarra says:

                    There is a phone visibly clipped to his right front pocket with the earbud cord going under his hoodie.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    There was some phone on him if the seven eleven video is truly him because he answered it. It is possible if he had his phone, he dumped it on Brandy’s porch before the attack, since Tracey and Brandi made reference to him being on the porch. Tracey may have found it and taken it back to Miami. The other possibility is it was left in Miami to begin with. Either way I think it ended up in Miami.

                  • jello333 says:

                    I’m as confused about the phone(s) as anyone, but one thing seems to be pretty certain: He had a phone of some kind on him while he was at 7-11. We see/hear him saying “Hello?” into a mic or something as he stands at the counter.

                  • woohoowee says:

                    JFP,

                    I forgot to mention in my last post to you – what they did to Shellie is when flames shot out of both my ears! The railroading of George was already obvious and when they did that to her, I too figured she was a pawn for leverage.

                    FREE the Zimmermans!

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I was extremely upset when she was arrested. The jail had been oh so nice letting George make all the calls he wanted. And Bernie at the hearing pressing Shellie, I smelled a stinking rat that stunk to high heaven. Shellie had worked so hard and was only a couple of weeks from finishing her nursing clinicals.

    • eastern2western says:

      we can imagine corey replacing nifong soon.

  16. nettles18 says:

    Yesterday I posted Part 3 of walk through videos post by Marinade Dave. You can find his blog here: http://marinadedave.blogspot.ca/search/label/Trayvon%20Martin

    Here is part 1 where he walks the route and then drives the route to get an address on RVC from where the truck was parked on TTL.

    Here is part 2 where he shows the distance from the 7-11 store back to the complex. He drives it and I’m quite surprised how far a walk it is. No way in my mind Trayvon left on a cold rainy night to walk that distance for a cold drink for himself and candy for his “little brother”.

    • ottawa925 says:

      a cold drink? ok …after reading SD’s thread from June 2012, the kids ordered pizza. I don’t know about Fla, but up here in Chitown you can order soda too. Many times they don’t have what I like, but I just pick something else is all. So they ordered pizza, and had no snacks or soda in the house. ooooooooooooo K

      • howie says:

        But you can’t get fixin’s.

        • ottawa925 says:

          mmmm fixins? ahhh No. No, you can’t say and along with that pizza I’ll take some codine, and anything else I’ll need to prepare my concoction.

          Has Brandi been deposed yet anybody know?

          Brandi, did the boys order pizza?
          Brandi, did you have snacks in the house?
          Brandi, did you have soda in the house?
          Brandi, did you have FOOD in the house?

  17. ottawa925 says:

    Folks, once again for review from SD in June 2012.

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/06/23/trayvon-martin-perhaps-the-inconsistencies-from-tracy-and-sybrina-are-more-easily-explained/

    ^ Might help to review cause as always SD lays everything out so perfectly.

  18. eastern2western says:

    a great line from the nifong grilling, “who cares about nancy grace!.” Beasley should take that woman’s name down.

  19. eastern2western says:

    even if zimmerman were aquitted by a jury of black people, king shabazz will not quit.

  20. ottawa925 says:

    As I have the superbowl on in the background, I have been thinking about GZ and funds. I did a little reading over here at this site that obviously teaches, and the discussion is about a defendent’s options when they do not have funds to pay. Not gonna take a lot of time to look this up, and I don’t know if it even EXISTS, state by state, but they discuss a defendant hiring an attorney and having the STATE pay the expenses. I’m not sure if GZ would have qualified for indigent at the time because to my knowledge no formal offer of a public defender was ever made to him. I’m just kickin this around now so bear with me. You can’t have money and get a public defender is the way I read it. However, this page for discussion that I link talks about a private attorney having the expenses paid by the State, which the State would have had to pay in the first place, as well as the Public Defender if the defendant is indigent and the process of the formal offer of same is made. So State would still pay the expenses, but save $$$ by not having to pay the Public Defender. My question (and here’s the link), is there any state where this exists, that you can have private attorney and state pays expenses?

    http://www.streetlaw.org/en/Page/772/WebQuest_How_to_Provide_Counsel_to_Indigent_Defendants

    Here is another link from the State of Kentucky:
    http://dpa.state.ky.us/library/manuals/funds/ch9.html

    The above links would suggest that justice would not be served if a public defender was appointed in a high profile case. That a defendant needs more than just adequate representation.

    now I’m posting the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure:

    http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/3-111.html

    GZ may not have been indigent from the get go, but once the State got through with him he became indigent quickly. The State CAUSED him to be indigent.

    This is an aspect of our laws that I believe somehow needs to be addressed. You cannot strip a Defendant of everything and expect him to have a fair and ABOVE adequate representation.

    Would like to hear comments and OH, don’t forget to answer if indeed in some state it does exist where a defendant can hire a private attorney and the state pays the expenses. Thanks.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      I’m almost positive Casey Anthony was found to be indigent and got to keep Jose B. I don’t know the details though.

      • janc1955 says:

        Yep, she kept little Jose. He worked pro bono (this was, of course, long after he pocketed the $200K he received for selling pics of his client and her dead 2 year-old victim to a media outlet).

  21. ottawa925 says:

    I’m spitting mad, cause I made this post, hit Post Comment and NOTHING happened and gone. Oh Lord Give Me Strength !! … LOL

    Ok, let me calmly begin again. I have superbowl on in the back ground but was doing a little reading on what defendants do when they have no money in order to defend themselves.

    I’m not going to try to recreate my post that didn’t go I will simply put the links up that I want you to look at in order to discuss:

    http://www.streetlaw.org/en/Page/772/WebQuest_How_to_Provide_Counsel_to_Indigent_Defendants

    http://dpa.state.ky.us/library/manuals/funds/ch9.html

    Florida Criminal Rules of Procedure:
    http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/3-111.html

    The articles talk about the inequities of defending an indigent defendant. GZ I do not believe was indigent when he was arrested, however, after the bond, that was basically it. State took all he had, and right now his case is eating up anything that comes in.

    The articles indicate that for justice to be served an indigent must have a MORE than adequate defense. It talks about an indigent defendant hiring a private attorney, and the State paying the expenses. The State would have had to pay the public defender and expenses if defendant was found to be indigent and the state completed the process of offering him a public defender.

    I don’t think GZ qualified to be indigent on arrest, but THE STATE CAUSED him to be indigent.

    Like to know your comments, and if anyone knows if there is any state in the union that allows an indigent defendant to hire private counsel, and the State pays the expenses.

    Thanks.
    ————–
    Sorry your comment got caught and don’t know why. It might be because of the # of links, but not necessarily. This happens from time to time–we clean them out as soon as we can. I went ahead and approved this comment as well since there might a difference in what you included as you were trying to reconstruct your thoughts. Agreed–it is frustrating when that happens. -Admin

    • Lou says:

      ottawa, this case has always been about stripping George of funds. the State went out of their way to listen to all his phone calls in jail. if this case comes to a head, Corey is toast.

    • ottawa925 says:

      oh, that’s OK, Admin. Chit happens. I’m just glad I still had all my links available and didn’t shut them down. Cheers.

  22. arkansasmimi says:

    Evening All my Fellow Treepers. Seem to be having problems staying connected here tonight. Just wanted to pass along that my Norton Antivirus stopped a WEB ATTACK : Mass Injection Website 5. States RISK HIGH. Only had this webpage open, but dont know if that means anything. Never had problems before. I can sent ADMINS the info if think its relevant, or anyone else having same prob. Skarrry Stuff :)

    • ottawa925 says:

      I made a few posts early on and then all of a sudden I could not get CTH to load all the way. Just kept hanging. I attributed to maybe lots of peeps at the treehouse tonight, or online superbowl traffice, but I tried other sites I visit and had no problem at all. So IDK. WordPress was involved too with not loading. Was working .. then stopped. Everything seems OK now tho.

      • arkansasmimi says:

        I am not having problems now either. But it kept catching these threats, every few seconds. Says its from China. Agility digital media dot com. Do not want to put the link just wanted others to be aware. Be careful clicking on links. I am leary on some.

  23. ejarra says:

    More stupidity from BigBoi. It seems that Georige told John what to tell the SPD.

    witter.com/BigBoithedog/status/298184650118029313

    • jello333 says:

      Wow, I’ll have to hand it to Bigboi. She poses quite the challenging question. I think we’re gonna need a Hawking-level brain to work on this one. The question:

      How is it possible that a witness’s statement describing a crime/event exactly matches the defendant’s statement describing that same crime/event?

      Hmm… and as Bigboi tells us, “the statistical probability that those two false statements would coincidentally match must be vanishingly small.” (And of course they MUST both be false, as Einstein’s 17th theory of relativity tells us.)

    • jello333 says:

      Oh, and one other point, but seriously this time:

      John’s 2nd statement was NOT some huge blow to George, as some people have suggested. John did NOT “recant’ what he said in the 1st one. All he did was admit he couldn’t be 100% certain that what he thought he saw and heard was accurate. For example, the “punching” from Trayvon could maybe have been “kept pushing him back down and holding him down”. Also, that he couldn’t actually see the lips of the person screaming. HOWEVER, he said that despite that, he still believes his original impressions are true, and that it makes logical sense… that Trayvon was wailing on George, and that it was George who was on the bottom and screaming. John just wanted to be overly cautious and say he wasn’t CERTAIN about that. I see no problem at all with that.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        John’s 2nd statement was NOT some huge blow to George, as some people have suggested. John did NOT “recant’ what he said in the 1st one.

        Thank you for pointing that out; you saved me the time to go back to the discovery documents.

        As I recalled from reading the reports the first time, what John actually clarified was that he could not say, with 100% certainty, was that it was the man on the bottom, rather than the man on top, who was screaming.

        • jello333 says:

          Right, and the idiots conveniently leave out one other important part of John’s 2nd statement. Near the end, the second investigator (whoever that is) speaks up. He hadn’t said anything up to that point, as far as I could tell. Anyway, he’s trying to get some clarification, since John now says he couldn’t see lips moving, so couldn’t be 100% sure who was screaming. The investigator asks which direction the two guys were facing, and John says the one on the bottom was facing toward him part of the time, and the one on the top facing away. The investigator asked if there was anything weird about the “clarity” (or some such word) of the voice/screams. John said something like, “No, it was clear. Which is what made me assume it was the guy on the bottom, since he was facing me. If it was the person facing the other way, it seems like it would have an echo kind of sound, or muffled or something. But this was clear.”

  24. ejarra says:

    I hate it when it does that:

    • ejarra says:

      Still not doing what I want it to do:

      Here it is:

      Sunday, February 3, 2013 As I’ve said before, I find it very difficult to attribute to a coincidence John’s (W6) first statement to police falsely describing an MMA-style thrashing that exactly matches the defendant’s false statement. The statistical probability that those two false statements would coincidentally match must be vanishingly small. Therefore, I believe BDLR and the FDLE concluded early on that John repeated what the defendant told him. I imagine that they wondered if John actually saw and/or heard what happened and knew the defendant was lying, or if he merely repeated what the defendant told him in an innocent but misguided effort to help him.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Why Did John (W6) Lie to the Police?

      So, Leatherman basically just posted a long-winded, “hey W6, please sue me for libel” request?

  25. woohoowee says:

    JFP & ejarra,

    I know there is *a* phone on TM @ the store (video shows this), but am wondering if it was his phone, Chad’s phone, Tracy’s phone, etc. AFAIK the only phone @ the scene is the heart phone and it doesn’t appear to belong to anyone involved. So, why no phone on Trayvon when the police arrived? My guess is that it he made it back to Brandy’s and left it there (whoever’s phone he was using), or perhaps handed it to Chad.

    • ejarra says:

      I know that there are some that don’t think that the phone with the heart on is his. But it was only found a few feet away. I believe that he was using that one.

      • jello333 says:

        I guess that’s my thought too. I mean, I agree with others that we can’t be certain that was the phone he was on in the final minutes, and that he may have left another phone “on the porch”, or that the heart phone may have been Chad’s… or whatever. But what seems very unlikely to me is that the heart phone wasn’t in SOME way related to Trayvon. If so, then that means that, just by pure coincidence, Trayvon’s body wound up very near to some phone that had previously been lost by some random person. Yes, that’s possible, but the odds against it are pretty high.

    • eastern2western says:

      a lot of times, parents tend to buy phones for their kids. thus, the phone may not be under trayvon’s name, but it could be his. now, if that phone is a trac phone, then the ownership can also be debatable.

  26. arkansasmimi says:

    LOVE IT~
    Coreshift@coreshift
    I wonder if during this “peace walk” ppl will be shouting “No justice, no peace!” again. #J4GZ #Zimmerman #Trayvon https://twitter.com/attorneycrump/status/297569139302735872

  27. ottawa925 says:

    This is the mentality you are dealing with:

  28. ottawa925 says:

    “Serino said one of Trayvon’s hobbies was videotaping everything he does. Trayvon had an extensive video library on his phone.”

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-21/news/os-george-zimmerman-defense-documents-20120621_1_shooting-death-statements-defense

    ^ I thought they couldn’t access his phone !? so how would he know he has an extensive video library on his phone? – date of Article 6/21/2012

    • justfactsplz says:

      On Trayvon’s real phone there was video taping that they managed to retrieve. It showed him in an unfavorable light so I guess they are trying to keep that under wraps too. It was the heart phone they were not able ot access at the time.

      • ottawa925 says:

        justfactsplz, thank you. I admit having a hard time keeping up with all the different twists and turns on this case. It’s like a maze in many aspects. Just when you think you have something squared away ….

        Maybe his extensive video taping would show him MMA fighting huh? Really, tho how would anyone know if police or anybody else on the other side of this case erased video footage off a phone. Can you tell that? … I hope Judge Nelson is on her toes come Tuesday.

        • justfactsplz says:

          Somebody tried to erase everything off of the phone prior to turning it over to the police. Techinicians were able to retrieve some of it. What was on it may help solve other crimes and may help George’s case at the same time.

          • Chip Bennett says:

            Somebody tried to erase everything off of the phone prior to turning it over to the police.

            I don’t doubt for one second that this is true; but does the defense have solid proof (some may say “objektiv ebidenz”) that this was done? If so, that’s yet another class-three felony case of evidence tampering.

            • boutis says:

              So the Scheme Team and the state of Florida (Special Prosecutors office and state LE) will be accusing each other of monkeying with the phone? Throw in the unknown California what’s it and SPD and this could be really interesting. And West/MOM are just sitting there whistling after throwing bombs. I cannot see how the judge doesn’t have to get into the middle of this fiasco. And if she refuses an appeal court will.

              • howie says:

                I think the latter. But it sure is a fiasco. The judge will be spinning. Thinking…what would Lester do? I hope it is on TV tomorrow I would like to watch it.

              • John Galt says:

                “Throw in the unknown California what’s it and SPD and this could be really interesting.”

                Don’t forget to throw in “where is the location map and analyst report for the data on Trayvon’s phone obtained from T-Mobile back in March?”

            • howie says:

              ??? I thought the Police collected the phone at the scene. Is this another one?

              • John Galt says:

                People have been speculating about that, but I have not yet seen any evidence of another Trayvon associated phone.

                • howie says:

                  Whew. I thought so. I only heard of the one with the heart on it. BTW. I did find out that the pink heart is a symbol used by some Black Gangs. They have all kine of symbols for things.

                • HughStone says:

                  I think “justfactsplz” is somebody we should pay attention to what they say. Or am I thinking of someone else?

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    justfactsplz is probably sand bagging but so far, I suspect she is ethically bound to hold some cards.

            • justfactsplz says:

              If the evidence hasn’t disappeared they should have it and I think they do.

      • John McLachlan says:

        How many phones were recovered at the scene?

        In order for the prosecution to use evidence provided by W8, the phone records of W8 should indicate phone calls to or from the phone recovered at the scene.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      I thought they couldn’t access his phone !? so how would he know he has an extensive video library on his phone? – date of Article 6/21/2012

      More than likely, his phone saved video recordings to the SD card.

      The SD card data are accessible simply by removing the SD card from the phone, and reading it from any computer with an SD card reader.

    • hooson1st says:

      It could simply be a ploy by the investigator to try to elicit some admission from a suspect.

    • John Galt says:

      Does Trayvon’s extensive video library including any recent voice samples?

  29. ottawa925 says:

    The DogPound is excited that W11 Malisha said she heard someone say “What are you doing”, and that confirms what DD said she heard … an old man saying “What are you doing around here”.

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