01-03 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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143 Responses to 01-03 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. brutalhonesty says:

    “Martin may have confronted the neighborhood watch volunteer because he was suspicious that a stranger was following him” now were getting somewhere, kinda.

    Read more: http://poy.time.com/2012/12/19/people-who-mattered-in-2012/slide/trayvon-martin/#ixzz2GtAUIPFv

    • howie says:

      Might have? Maybe? Possibly? Could be? Ya never know?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Again with the White Hispanic Zimmerman. Shouldn’t he be listed as a person of the year? After all, he is the genesis of an entirely new demographic classification.

    • John Galt says:

      “But social media would take the factors of race and class inherent in the case and transform the death of 17-year old Trayvon Martin, at the hands of neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, into a full-fledged media phenomenon.”

      “social media” a/k/a Scheme Team

    • tara says:

      Martin may have confronted the neighborhood watch volunteer because he was suspicious that a stranger was following him

      Ugh. I suppose I should be happy that a mainstream media outlet is finally acknowledging that Trademark was culpable. But in that one short sentence there are two gross errors.

      DD2 stated that Trademark initiated the verbal confrontation, and she also stated that the verbal confrontation preceded the physical confrontation. Other witnesses also report a verbal confrontation prior to the physical confrontation. There we know with as much certainty as we could ever have that Trademark DID confront GZ.

      Also, suspicion would not motivate a visitor of a community to confront a stranger in that community. Prejudice-driven RESENTMENT would. Trademark identified GZ to DD2 as “white”, she was quick to provide that nugget when BDLR asked her if Trademark described GZ to her. Trademark wasn’t about to allow some white dude to follow him without making his resentment known, that’s why he didn’t return to Brandy’s apartment even though he was “right by” it. “What you following me for?” Pretty ballsy.

      • jello333 says:

        And on top of all that, I get a little tired of the media constantly referring to George as “a neighborhood watch volunteer”. As if that was the sum total of who George was/is. As if the fact that he was a part of the neighborhood watch had ANYTHING to do with what went down that night.

      • libby says:

        You can hear that resentment very clearly in how deedee describes GZ (he says he is white with much disdain). of course, the media thinks black people’s resentments are perfectly understandable and white people resentments are pathological (the new equality).

  2. brutalhonesty says:

    dunno if you covered it yet, but LMFAO 2.25 million people liked their jftm fb page, yet they cant get him on the list 8 months later…even with a drive to get votes for him.

    Voting has closed.
    Here are the top 10 newsmakers selected by readers:
    1Barack Obama
    2Malala Yousufzai
    3Gabby Douglas
    4Chris Christie
    5Felix Baumgartner
    6David Petraeus
    7Mitt Romney
    9Marissa Mayer
    10John Roberts
    Total votes: 45,992


  3. brutalhonesty says:

    the theories and false claims never stop (this one originated with leatherman i think)

    Samantha Myers I’m awaiting to find out if it’s really true or not. That GZ CWP is not valid/ legal at the time. He had a refund and he didn’t finish taking the Class. That would be a devasting blow to GZ. If it’s true he could be facing more charges.
    about a minute ago via mobile · Like · 1

  4. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Post From Justarse Quest

    A delusional view as usual, and a claim that since GZ supporters have gone from their hidden sewer , that proves that they (Traybots) have…


    Random Topics


    • raiikun says:

      LOL….IMO Papapi is an deranged schizo who escaped a mental institution…what he isn’t here to disagree? That must mean I won the debate! (Hey that’s his logic).

      In the many weeks I posted there not a single time did they refute successfully anything I asserted…since I was the one using the facts, law, and evidence.

      • rumpole2 says:


        I Totally agree

        Post of the Day!

        Now that I have awarded you that.. everything you say is validated!!!!!

        • raiikun says:

          So, Allia certainly likes to rewrite history, doesn’t she? lol. She’s inventing a complaint I never made about being banned, in her words ” he whined that he was banned just because no one could deal with his brilliance”, when in fact, what I said was I had just told Amraan to ban the account. I hadn’t even logged back into the account to see if the ban had happened, I just assumed it had because I *requested* it lol.

          But with their willingness to just invent history willy-nilly, it’s no wonder they’re so off the mark with the Zimmerman case.

          • rumpole2 says:

            Dopes who joined JQ AFTER I was banned claim to know what I was up to when I was there :D
            The longest serving of them were only there for a matter of weeks while I was posting and know NOTHING about me.
            I give up on the owners, but some of the senior posters at JQ are not happy with these newbie upstarts who invaded the place, and have the audacity to pontificate after just a
            few posts about members who have thousands of posts over year of loyal service to JQ (I had 46,000 (prior to some forum deletions)…. and I am STILL by far there top poster of all time :D
            The Cretins outnumber the smart people now… so JQ will remain as it is.
            few posts

          • rumpole2 says:

            Help I am in the SPAM bucket!!!

      • rumpole2 says:

        A small snippet to share with you… best done at RT ;)

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Debate? Their side won’t actually participate in a debate. Over there, they simply censor/banish differing viewpoints. Over here, when presented with a factual argument, they retort with “racist!” and other ad hominem.

      If we get an actual counter argument, it either asserts specious speculation (insert theory du jour here) as fact, demolishes a straw man (“Trayvon went out for Skittles and came home dead!“), or represents something completely irrelevant.

      Many of us here have presented factual arguments based on actual witness testimony and empirical, forensic evidence, and have challenged Martin supporters to counter with similarly factual arguments. Every single one of those challenges remains unfulfilled.

      Debate? There has been no debate. Their side refuses to debate.

      • nettles18 says:

        In fairness to the other side, the State has given them nothing to debate with. This is an incredibly weak case and I question how the law could have allowed it to get this far. I get an over-zealous prosecutor but where the heck are the checks and balances. 3 different judges have had this case and still is crawls on.

        • eastern2western says:

          the other can actually turned anything into a positive for trayvon. when they first saw zimmerman’s bloody skull, they claimed it proves zimmerman was standing up when he shot trayvon. with the new bloody face photo, they also claim that the photo proves zimmerman was lying because the photo can not justify shooting trayvon. their twisted legal minds are just brilliant because they can pick anything and decide to have a wild party with it. mr trent sawyer is a perfect example of the other side because he managed to have a spectacular show of shadows after watch cctv tapes for hours and hours. In psychology, he should be diagnose with delusional conjecture disorder.

  5. diwataman says:

    So the Alva thing came up back in August that she would be taking over(I totally forgot about this, doh!);

    Odd that Jeff tweeted that in August yet in December Rene says otherwise. lolz. Hopefully we’ll find out soon enough.

    Just re-posting this article as well. Her relationship with the SPD doesn’t seem too good.

    • nettles18 says:

      “There have been some online rumors that Judge Alva will be taking over the Zimmerman criminal case, but this is untrue. Judge Nelson will continue to preside over the Zimmerman case, and she has also been assigned to the civil suit filed against NBCUniversal Media, LLC. The rumor began because on January 1, 2012, Judge Nelson switched to handling civil cases, and Judge Alva switched to criminal cases, and we assume that the Seminole County Clerk of Courts website switched all cases on the docket automatically. Judge Nelson, however, has chosen to keep the Zimmerman case on her docket, and we suspect the Seminole County Clerk of Courts website will be manually updated to reflect this soon.”


      • diwataman says:

        “Online rumors?” What an ass. It’s not like we make this crap up, the docket indicated it and Jeralyn showed some info that indicate it as well. Jeff Wiener started it, lol.

        • hooson1st says:

          Stating “rumors” does not mean that the “crap” is made up, nor that MOM is an ass. Perhaps the word “speculation” might have been more judicious than ‘rumor”.

            • diwataman says:

              Actually a better point would be “does not ‘necessarily’ mean…”. The word “rumor” traditionally and in most contexts has a negative connotation which I find offensive considering I took part in spreading that “rumor”. Also, a better approach would to have just been to simply address the main issue and leave it at that but hey that’s O’Mara, not me.

              • kathyca says:

                Agree. How ’bout, “it’s come to our attention that the court’s website incorrectly lists Judge Alva as the Judge in the Zimmerman case.” And then continue with the explanation of why that probably happened, etc. There was no “rumor” about it. It was a mistake on the part of the Court (big surprise there — can’t actually work too hard at those gov’t jobs. Just hit the button and let the chips fall) which gave rise to a legitimate discussion about whether the information posted on the court’s site was true. Actually, to the extent it’s a rumor at all, the Court started the rumor with its typical incompetence.

              • hooson1st says:

                … or MOM’s clerk, etc..

                • hooson1st says:

                  Even in this micro situation, we don’t know how MOM and/or his assistance framed this issue nor what was the prompting factor. They could have gotten a call from a reporter monitoring this blog, who noticed the chatter, double checked the listing at the court and then have called MOM’s office for a comment saying that the blogosphere was chatting up this latest item.

                • kathyca says:

                  If he’s allowing a clerk to make unreviewed public postings in an ultra-high-profile case like this, he is out of his mind — not merely inaccurate.

              • rumpole2 says:

                I’m annoyed as well. I helped “spread the rumour”.

                It certainly was NOT a rumour, it was WRONG information from a source that exists to supply CORRECT information….an official source. Perhaps somebody should be sacked? Certainly an apology should be forthcoming.

                • hooson1st says:

                  You and diwataman did nothing wrong. You guys (and SD) are on top of all breaking items in this case. You can’t check everything out to the nth degree all the time before alerting Treepers.

        • tara says:

          There ARE online rumors that GZ’s judge has changed. O’Mara acknowledged that the source of the rumors was the Courts web site. He’s simply setting the matter straight. Why would this make him an “ass”?

        • libby says:

          he gives a bad name to a venerable meat product, IMO

  6. Here is a good article about self-defense from the American Thinker. Also mentions the Knockout King game.

    “…The classic .38 caliber revolver, with a capacity of six rounds, was the standard sidearm of the United States Army during the Moro insurrection in the Philippines. The Army found at least one dead Army officer with an empty sidearm, and his head split open by a machete or similar weapon. They also found the soldier’s killer, who had finally bled to death. Six rounds of .38 were therefore not enough to convince even one determined attacker….”

    “…Then there is the knockout game, in which a street gang selects a victim at random, knocks him or her down, and then maybe beats him or her to a pulp….”


  7. raiikun says:

    And so…who was it that called it several days ago that there might not be a January hearing?

    Oh wait, that was me. ;)

    IMO this is a good thing, it simply means that there are no issues that the Defense needs the Judge’s help on to get moving.

    There was a flurry of motions earlier on because the Defense needed certain things before their investigation could be fully underway, and once that was resolved, the Defense is now probably neck deep in that investigation; including contacting experts, having things analyzed and reanalyzed, and once the Defense is past that, you’ll start seeing motions picking up again as they start requesting certain things be excluded as evidence (w8 will be a prime target here).

    Personally I think that’s the primary path that O’Mara/West is shooting for right now, to find all the problems with w8 to get her testimony excluded as being untrustworthy; and since she was such a big part of the Affidavit of Probable Cause, once she’s excluded the Defense can go for a dismissal on the grounds that the Prosecution no longer has probable cause.

    • nettles18 says:

      I agree totally. The defense will be up to their necks in investigation now.

    • diwataman says:

      “IMO this is a good thing, it simply means that there are no issues that the Defense needs the Judge’s help on to get moving”

      Considering the history I find that to be the most optimistic thing I’ve ever read about this case, lol.

      Here is my general response to that sentiment and others like it, such as “working behind the scenes”, working hard on other issues” from my blog;

      It’s as if, at least as far as the court is concerned, the case has completely stalled. I’m absolutely shocked given the history of this case and what’s left to do that there was nothing to be done for the Jan 8 hearing. O’Mara is aware there is a SYG hearing scheduled in April isn’t he? Is he hoping the judge will grant continuances if he is not ready? Because she don’t seem to friendly in that regard. He might have learned that when she scolded his team on missing her scheduled 48 hour deadline for filing motions before the court date. And I am to believe that suddenly there’s no problem from the State and anyone else related like Benjamin Crump? Suddenly the light has shone, the poles have shifted and everyone is open, friendly and timely with information? I don’t think so.

      • hooson1st says:


        When you have the facts in hand, you are a terror. You confirm them or you destroy them with your persistent digging.

        This business with the hearing date being cancelled is open to speculation because we don’t know what is behind the scenes and MOM has his hands full with the stream of additional disclosures coming his way.

        My speculation is that if MOM/West weren’t getting the necessary disclosure cooperation they need and were complaining about the last time around, this hearing would not have been cancelled.

      • nettles18 says:

        I believe it was the State who got scolded for the 48 hour deadline and the Judge told them she did not read their responses to defense motions and would not consider anything not filed 2 days before a court date.

        I wish Judge Lester gave the same consideration when the State put forth the revoke motiion on June 1st. We could have avoided an emotional response from the Judge and had the transcibed notes looks at more closely before accepting them as fact.

        • diwataman says:

          That’s funny because I heard a stern reminder from the Judge directly to West that she gives plenty of time in between hearings to get things in on time and a reminder of the 48 hour deadline.

    • jello333 says:

      But before they try to get rid of Dee Dee, I’m CERTAIN they want to have a deposition first. They need to get everything they can on the record, if not for the criminal case, then for the future case against Crump et al, and the State for their conspiracy.

  8. diwataman says:

    Okay, so more on the phone thing if you’re interested. This article by the OS is, at least to me, very confusing;

    If it is as the article states and the FDLE was successful in accessing the SIM card (O’Mara mentions in his motion that they were; and SD card then there should be no problem here. Everything of value that could be gotten from the phone has long been had.

    It is of no value to be able to bypass any lock on the phone to use the phone itself, you’ll get much more info from the cellebrite device. So the issue about, locks, security codes, pins, whatever, is a moot point.

    They also talk about the “chip built into the phone”. I have no idea what value can come from that. Anything of value will come from the SIM and SD cards. So that’s also useless as far as I know.

    Now here’s the problem. It’s also reported in that OS article;

    The information downloaded by Brenton at the FDLE lab “tells me the last few phone calls, but that’s about it,” O’Mara said. “It looks like there is other information that I should have.”

    I suppose nothing should amaze me at this point but what the hell is the State thinking here? There’s no doubt that since they gained access to the SIM card there should be a ton of info; contacts, call history, text messages, etc. And all they gave O’Mara was the last couple of phone call made? That is just nuts.

    And that is to say nothing of the SD card which stores video, audio, etc. Which apparently the state felt no need to give O’Mara at all.

    All the info, that can be publicly had anyway, will come out eventually I’m sure, so I’ll just have to be patient till that day comes but I hope this sorts some things out as it is of now.

    Just as a side note; considering the games the state continues to play with the evidence I am sure there is nothing of value that helps their case(such as racist texts or anything that proves murder) from George’s phone, if that were the case they would be eager to release that info and we would have heard about it by now. It could very well be that anything of value from George’s phone helps George’s case and that’s why we’ve seen nothing on it to date.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      I”m not necessarily completely up to speed on the cell phone issue, but hopefully this will help clarify some things with respect to phones and memory/data.

      Phones can store data in one of three places:

      1. The SIM card
      2. The internal storage
      3. An external SD card

      The SIM card handles the authentication with the carrier, and has limited storage capacity for phone contacts.

      The internal storage holds the phone’s operating system, and is the default storage for phone logs, contacts, text messages, media (phone camera photos and videos, received photos/videos, downloaded/purchased/synched audio, etc), web browser history and cache, etc.

      The external SD card is an optional storage location, usually for media.

      In my experience, with smart phones (at least in the US), the SIM card is mostly useless with respect to actual phone data. Phone contacts usually are stored on the internal memory, not on the SIM card. (They can be copied to/synched with the SIM card, but with every phone I’ve used, doing so is an explicit, manual process.)

      I doubt that accessing the phone’s SIM card would provide much benefit.

      If Martin’s phone included an external SD card, it is highly likely that any photos or videos he recorded would be stored on it. That is important, because accessing data stored on an SD card is as simple as removing the SD card from the phone and mounting it on any other computer.

      But any useful data on the phone’s internal storage would require software access to the phone itself – either through the phone’s OS, or by mounting the phone as a USB drive on another computer. The ability to mount a phone’s internal storage as a USB drive, and the data exposed through such access, could be phone OS-dependent, I suppose. If that’s the case, then the phone OS itself would need to be accessed.

      • diwataman says:

        It’s like everything I read on it has something a little different to say here or there on the matters of phone storage, how it works and how it’s all related to forensics. It certainly doesn’t help that we have very little information on what specifically went on with this particular phone.

        • eastern2western says:

          state is repeating another hid-and-seek routine with the evidence again.

        • myopiafree says:

          HI D-man – I have a low-cost $50 phone. It has all those capabilities – and more. His phone could take PICTURES. I have all my calls LISTED ON MY PHONE. I don’t put any “protect” on my phone – so anyone could “read” my phone. It is “Blue-tooth” capable. I take VIDEOS. TM’s phone is more expensive than mine – and has MORE capability. Anyone with phone-smarts could get into that phone. Obviously the STATE does not want that done – it would be very revealing. It would probably show that TM was NOT taking to DeeDee in that last, critical, five minutes. That would be the “bombshell” that would destroy Bernie’s case.

      • diwataman says:

        One thing I’m trying to find out is how to enable USB debugging when the phone is pattern locked.

        This guy says;

        “If the smartphone is rooted but USB debugging is disabled, you just need to google a bit, there are plenty ways to enable debugging from outside the phone.”

        Not very helpful.

    • tara says:

      I’m very confused here. A PIN prevents access to the SIM, doesn’t it? Doesn’t a pattern lock perform the same function? According to the Orlando Sentinel article, the SIM was already accessed, it’s the phone’s internal memory which is still unmined. And they state in the article that a technician could remove that memory but it would “destroy” the phone. Is this not an option?

      According to the Cellebrite UFED manual, if a SIM is PIN-locked you can use the Cellebrite to create a clone of the SIM and then insert that cloned SIM into the phone and proceed with data extraction as usual. No mention of USB debugging here. http://www.cellebrite.com/images/stories/support%20files/UFED-UserManual-v4b.pdf, start on page 29.

      Just another piece of info, users have a choice of PIN, pattern, or password lock for that phone. Do we know that Trademark chose a pattern lock? http://huaweimobile.com.au/uploads/content/faqs/HUAWEI_U8150_FAQ.pdf

      • tara says:

        Also, I’m sure you’ve seen this: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/fbi-stumped-by-pimps-androids-pattern-lock-serves-warrant-on-google/

        Apparently like unlock codes for PIN locks, you can get an unlock for a pattern.

        I must be missing some crucial information or understanding here, I’m just not seeing how investigators could have yet not gained access to everything on that phone.

        • Justice4All says:

          2 ways to access the internal memory of the phone.

          1) [easy way] the account holder provides the pin to the service provider account which gives google legal right to bypass the screen lock thereby allowing access to the internal memory.
          2) Disassemble the phone and remove the internal memory chip from the mother board and solder it onto another mother board in order to access the data.

          USB debugging is a mode that the phone can be set on which allows software developers to access the device via the USB hub. This allows the developer to access all of the files on the phone via a 3rd party computer. It is extremely unlikely that Trayvon had any interest in gaining root access to the files on his device and therefore would have no reason to have enabled USB debugging on his device.

          The phone can not be accessed without risking destroying the phone unless Tracy cooperates and supplies the pin to the Tmobile account. I am sure that if O’Mara feels this info is needed for his case that he will attempt to subpoena the account pin from Tracy before risking destroying the device.

        • diwataman says:

          From what I understand if the phone is PIN or Password locked it’s a simple as contacting/subpoena T-Mobile to unlock it. If it Pattern locked however it becomes a larger problem; T-Mobile can do nothing about it and so they are left with other options. The cleanest and most confident method is to subpoena Google for the G-Mail account from which they can enter the User Name and Password into the phone and reset the Pattern Lock but if something goes wrong in that area then they have to go to other methods but they have to do it in a way that can’t possibly be used against them if it ever comes up in court.


  9. rumpole2 says:

    Just one of MANY things to ponder on:
    Why is it that people who think GZ is guilty, do not want details of phone released.
    IF things are as they imagine, with DD on the phone with TM right up to the scuffle… the phone evidence detail will be hard physical evidence in support of their case.
    It is us people who do not believe the DD evidence contradicts GZ’s version, or perhaps DD is an invention of Crump and The Scheme Team who want the phone evidence?

    If one side wants to see the facts, (whatever they may show), and the other side are afraid they might be seen and “hurt their case”, it speaks to a desire to shine light on the truth on one side, versus a desire to get a ill-conceived result on the other

    • tara says:

      I’ve always maintained that DD2’s account actually HELPS GZ. DD2 established that Trademark was “right by” Brandy’s apartment at one point during their conversation and yet later he was back at the tee in the sidewalk, relatively far from Brandy’s. DD2 also stated that it was Trademark who initiated the verbal confrontation. It’s going to be very very difficult for the prosecution to paint Trademark as a scare chile if the jury realizes that 1) Trademark backtracked instead of running to safety and 2) Trademark initiated contact with GZ.

      I guess that’s why the nuts focus on all sorts of other imaginary “problems”. Their star witness corroborates GZ’s story, she doesn’t contradict it.

      • howie says:

        My favorite is the clubhouse video. Everyone knows it was a UFO, not GZ.

        • rumpole2 says:

          The club house video “analysis” then went on and on and on.. with screen shots, and blow ups, and time-stamp “adjustments” was funny… it still is…. the main dopes (eg Papapinhead and Trent) have never given up on it and still slip it into posts.
          But the award for really cretinous analysis goes to……..
          For the analysis of background (random) noise.
          We have 4 accomplices (2 male 2 female) in the truck with GZ and taking part in the “pursuit” as well as music playing (not sure if that means a radio or a nearby string quartet going along with George. And of course, it that wasn’t enough….. we have the cockatoo!!!!! :D

      • justfactsplz says:

        I don’t hang my hat on the Dee Dee conversation might help George. I believe the call never ever happened and will be proved.

        • jordan2222 says:

          You have maintained that since you started posting here. That would be so HUGE, I cannot imagine what would happen next. I am pretty sure that we will know by the next hearing.
          IF there is only ONE cell phone, and IF there is no record of Martin being on that phone with DeeDee or Witness 8 or whoever the hell she is, then how on earth could the State ever explain that? That would shatter the probable cause affidavit. I have racked my brain and keep not think of anything the State could do to continue to case.

          It may not prove it conclusively but it at least IMPLIES that BLDR is part of a conspiracy. Now that is very dangerous territory.

          Geezh, justfactsplz I sure hope you are right about this. The only thing that could be bigger than that would be if there is a video or audio recording of part of the struggle.

          Do we know if Chad’s cell phone was ever examined by anyone?

      • libby says:

        AND, she initially said trayvon bumped GZ, then corrected herself to suggest it was the other way around

    • howie says:

      In this case the roles seem reversed. Don’t they.

    • jello333 says:

      Right you are. I actually talked to someone not too long ago who said something like, “If Zimmerman thinks he’s got such a strong case, then why are his lawyers constantly trying to hide evidence, and not turning information over to the prosecutors when they ask for it.” After picking my jaw up off the floor, I explained they had that exactly BACKWARDS. It’s the prosecution who’s trying to hide things, including access to Dee Dee, to the phones, etc. At that point, this person said, “That doesn’t make sense. Why would THEY try to hide stuff? Unless….” I just smiled as the “unless” trailed off into a thought pattern this person hadn’t even considered up till that moment. ;) You could almost see the proverbial lightbulb switch on!

  10. Springstreet says:

    Diwataman: Could you also ask MOM if he will publish the time/location of TM’s phone(s)? I would like to know if TM (and his phone) went directly from the 7/Eleven 3 Amigos to Brandi’s Porch AND if much later a different (dead) crime scene phone had previously received calls at the cut-thru when GZ (and the other resident backing out into Retreat View Circle) saw someone with either tan or stone washed jeans AND tan or red sneakers. It has never made sense that one very scared hooded figure ran away but then then came back suddenly transformed into the vicious assaulter of GZ! I just finished an Amazon eBook where no one asked questions after another famous crime. It’s called WATERGATE FICTION and is worth a read … if you wonder why we’re always on the outside looking in when Liberals report the news.



  11. david says:

    Amazing how the Traybots constantly babble that none of George’s DNA was found on TM’s hands, Wrists, and lower arms………yet at the very same time these morons are claiming George had his hands all over TM “attempting to detain him” and placing him in “wrist locks”……….hilarious when these idiots make arguments against their own claims!

    • lovemygirl says:

      I tried explaining DNA testing 101 to a few ages ago but needless to say it fell on deaf ears.
      The ME searches for cause of death, not DNA. They remove the clothes which are bagged and later sent out for DNA analysis where they test sites that indicate positive for blood. They never tested any of his open skin and the only part of his body tested was fingernail scrapings (standard practice)..
      Only in unusual circumstances like rape or bite marks would they test other parts of the body for DNA.

      • janc1955 says:

        I’m not at all comfortable with the information we’ve received (and not received) regarding Trayvon’s autopsy. Someone was told to put it out here that TM was shot at something other than close range (I forget the deliberately confusing terminology that was used) — as if to indicate he was shot from a distance while being “stalked” or “pursued” or “hunted down like a dog,” and not shot at point blank range because he happened to be straddling his victim, the shooter, who was flat on his back at the time of the shooting. Someone was also told to put all kinds of fuzzy information out here about the condition of TM’s hands, which surely looked a lot worse than we were told based on the damage to GZ’s face. And then, of course, there’s that pesky complete tox report on TM we’ve yet to see. Hell, we can’t even get a correct height on him, because all these things would lend yet more credibility to GZ’s version of events.

        • lovemygirl says:

          The confusion arises from there is no standard terminology used, it varies State to State, school to school. People are misinterpreting “intermediate range”. The stippling and gunshot residue all indicate the shot was fired from inches. Hands and knuckles are not beaten to a pulp from close range blows as I and others that train will attest to when we work out sans gloves. These are just stupid internet sleuths without a clue. The ME will testify that it was within inches if his testimony is ever required.

        • Knuckledraggingwino says:

          That someone would be Detective Serino who was POC to the ME and provided an incident summary to the ME prior to the autopsy that portrayed GZ as the aggressor.

          Terminology used by MEs varies by jurisdiction. The more precise nomenclature is that gunshots are either Distant-Indeterminant Range, Intermediate Range, Close Range and Contact Range. Many MEs choose to use the less precise Distant Range, Intermediate Range and Contact Range scale. Using this imprecise scale, most homicides are at Intermediate Range, so it isn’t very useful. Unless one reads the notes to find the actualnrange estimate, there is extreme uncertainty. The ME classified the TM shooting as Intermediate Range but the presence of Sootvaround the wound conclusively proves that it was Close Range or Contact Range. The ME failed to take surface swabs and tissue samples that could have been used for definitive testing.

          The FDLE which examined TM’s clothing found that it was a Contact Range shooting. The discrepency encouraged some TrayBots including Leatherface to conclude that it proved that GZ was hprestraining TM by his shirt while alsomholding him in a “wrist lock” when he shot TM with his third hand. Is GZ a Motie who was holding TM with his Gripping Hand?

          • libby says:

            The traybots think that a 40 second or longer MMA brawl would leave all your clothing intact in the exact position they started the fight in (they claim the fact that the bullet hole in the clothing is not where they want it, so they clakim that is proof GZ had his shirt in an attempt to control/detain trayvon).

  12. anne says:

    I wish I could get my hands on SOP for ME cases of Homicide. It’s been said they only tested nail clippings. I need fact that they did not use those special light sources and/or chemical swabs to TM skin/digits and such. Not being listed tells me nothing. On the other hand they say nothings there to be tested. I’ve got a BIL weather man, and it did not rain enough to wash away every bit of bio material. The description of 12 blows to face,hands/digits covering his face and nose /reaching for gun given by George, just leaves so much to question, I mean logic alone fights with not tested not there. As many aspects of this case do.

    • lovemygirl says:

      This isn’t CSI. Read above. The ME does not do DNA testing ever. The ME determines cause of death. DNA analysis is done elsewhere by different people under all circumstances..

    • dmoseylou says:

      “beat a dead horse”
      dead horse
      1. something that has ceased to be useful or relevant.

      2. beat / flog a dead horse, to persist in pursuing or trying to revive interest in a project or subject that has lost its usefulness or relevance.

  13. lovemygirl says:

    I take it the “entertainment” from other sites is back. ;)

    • dmoseylou says:

      Yeppers. The tenacious one, again. {{{YAWN}}}
      Hey, we could share stories RE: Ted Nugent’s 4th of July blow-out that you did NOT (cough, cough) attend. That surely will entertain Ms. Anne, esp. since Ted is Mr. NRA man himself. BIG pro-SYG guy, so, we’ll still be on-topic. You can go first. :lol:

      • lovemygirl says:

        Just found out my State Senator standing up to the IL version of Feinstein’s bill remembered me from High School. I forgot to ask if he attended the concert. ;)

      • lovemygirl says:

        The concert I didn’t attend. ;) Luckily my parents don’t read here but they would fit right in and I’m guessing that concert is one of my minor transgressions growing up.

  14. anne says:

    Grown ups? Any grown ups? Opps, my bad, wrong address. No debate to be had here.

    • eastern2western says:

      here is my answer for you.

    • lovemygirl says:

      I’m all grown up now. Here are a few things you need to understand about DNA testing. First, they don’t test the body for every scrap of DNA especially since there was no question that George and Trayvon were in a “scuffle”. Second, touching something does not lead to detectable DNA under normal procedures and they DO NOT examine and test every micrometer of every single object involved EVER. Third, the only thing tested other than fingernail scrapings was the clothing and the gun. They tested where it tested positive for blood and then concluded George’s blood was on Trayvon, Trayvon’s blood was on George and mixed samples were on both. Forth, ‘Absence of evidence is not absence of evidence.’.

      • rumpole2 says:

        DNA test is an “inclusive test”
        If you find a person’s DNA… It PROVES”
        Subject touched the test item (or some intermediary object touched subject then test item)

        If you DON’T find DNA….It PROVES…..
        Nothing conclusive.
        Subject still may or may not have touched object.
        DNA may not have been transferred,
        or transferred and lost (wiped off),
        or it may have been there but not collected for various reasons

    • justfactsplz says:

      Bye bye!

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Grown ups? Any grown ups? Opps, my bad, wrong address. No debate to be had here.

      Sad, isn’t it? Maybe next time you’ll actually try to participate in a debate, instead of playing the drive-by troll?

      Oh, who am I kidding…?

    • eastern2western says:

      hey, what about alan dershowitz, one of the most famouse anti-gun librals in the world.

  15. diwataman says:

    Yeah, I think I’ll withhold my opinion on that for now.

  16. diwataman says:

    Oh good grief, is he going to write a fluff piece on it now? Don’t forget to remind us Trayvon was black Jeff.

  17. jordan2222 says:

    Anyone know anything about a recent evidence dump by the State?. I saw a comment about it tonight at HP.

    • diwataman says:

      What’s HP? I haven’t heard anything but I don’t have access to the state site anymore. There is still stuff left over from the 9th supp and the 10th supp has the Serino reports. I don’t know what’s in the 11th supp. Maybe O’Mara will post it for us ey?

    • lovemygirl says:

      Bizzare, I was banned from HP long ago after posting for years without problem under the original AOL (ran into a gay moderator that did not like my stance on Gay marriage). I was able to signon, comment pending, but we will see.

      • lovemygirl says:

        I’m still irritated about that, signed up when the internet/aol was born and we had to pay for it. Decades of being responsible and a gay moderator banned me for simply stating my opinion of why the state should not recognize gay marriage. I rarely (if ever) used any foul language. I only want back in to torture their mindsets with Conservative values.

  18. lovemygirl says:

    Just released evidence (in the last 8 months) all indicate George Zimmerman is innocent.
    Hey Anne – there is nothing in the videos, the FBI said so; There is no racism, the FBI said so, There is nothing at all you and your believers have that says anything other than George has been railroaded. Trayvon lost his way after his first year in High School. Probably because his “playa’ dad wanna’ be” started whoring around again and fathered another child. Trayvon attacked George and George used righteous self defense.
    Nothing a less than masculine boy beating a rag doll on YouTube can disprove.
    Nothing a fat boy claiming that George was parked at the clubhouse when the police know he was parked at the “t” can disprove.
    The fools on the Trayvon sites worship a disbarred lawyer that never taught anything.

  19. jordan2222 says:

    Sundance: Please check your email and let me know you go it.

  20. Alexandra M. says:

    Paging Anne….Anne……..,
    The “Prof” needs you back at the drum circle. ;)

  21. diwataman says:

    Apparently George is facing the death penalty for the killing of Trayvon Davis and facing federal hate crime charges;

    • lovemygirl says:

      I thought I saw Moscow, then CA gay accents; WTF?

    • dmoseylou says:

      This clip is obviously from mid-March 2012—-the banner: “you ain’t seen nothing yet: How much will super pac$ spend in 2012?” Also, Kissinger had the “pat-down” from the TSA on March 14, 2012.
      That guy should be fired, he is just stupid; he can not even get TM’s name right; the FBI never issued any such statement about hate crimes and the death penalty for George.

      Media at its’ finest—NOT!

  22. dmoseylou says:

    The clip is from March, which begs the question—What possible reason exists for this site to publish this clip on Thursday, 01/03/2013? Never mind, we all know the answer to that one.

    Published on Jan 3, 2013

    • lovemygirl says:

      I didn’t see any contact information on the site either.

    • kathyca says:

      This link takes me to an article from 1/3 about the publishing of gun owners’ addies, etc. by the LOHUD. What clip is from March?

      • dmoseylou says:

        This post up-thread is from mid-March:

        diwataman says:
        January 4, 2013 at 1:28 am
        Apparently George is facing the death penalty for the killing of Trayvon Davis and facing federal hate crime charges;

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