DeeDee / Keyser Soze and Occam’s Razor Within The Context….

Against the backdrop of the latest revelation regarding The Scheme Team fraud,  several people have requested opinion of how all this “DeeDee”, witness #8, inconsistent discovery, can be brought to make sense.

Benjamin+Crump+Tampa+Church+Holds+Town+Hall+QGaz0oqyOwHl

Scheme Team (Jackson, Crump, Parks)

Is there any intellectually plausible explanation for it all?

Short answer, yes.   There is a principle theory for how this got started that brings most, if not all, of the aspects together.    However, the hypothesis itself is more challenging to explain.

Understanding the background events, players, and intentions helps to construct the most likely scenario.

During the week of March 12th through the 16th – The race-baiting class was at a fever pitch, but the case against George Zimmerman was going no-where.   The investigation was not reflecting any inconsistencies with George’s numerous, and unrepresented, statements to police.   As Sanford Police Chief Lee, and Detective Serino stated “everything is adding up to what he [Zimmerman] said“.

Trayvon Rally 4-26 LA

But massive racially dependent groups such as the NAACP, NAN and the New Black Panthers, not to mention Congress, the Congressional Black Caucus, Jesse Jackson, Ben Jealous, and Reverend Al Sharpton were on the ground demanding something be done to arrest Zimmerman.   Heck, even President Obama weighed in on the case, and at least in appearance, threw the credibility of his office behind the Trayvon Martin Family cause.

Family attorneys Benjamin Crump, Daryl Parks and locally Natalie Jackson were caught up in a hurricane of angry race-baiting, hate-filled, animosity they themselves had stirred up to get the case in front of the national media.

On literally hundreds of TV, radio, and print media interviews they developed a one phrase mantra:  “all we want is an arrest”.    That was step one in the scheme to financial victory, and using the same historical playbook of accusations, anger, and demands based on race they were not going to let anything get in their way of Financial Justice through civil action.   (note step #2 is an actual criminal trial or as Benjamin Crump described 2nd base – but they need to overcome the immunity hearing)

So in/around mid-March the goal was “an arrest”.

Following their pressure against Sanford Mayor Triplett on Friday March 16th, at a private 6pm meeting at they demanded copies of the 911 calls to be released.    Triplett conceded, but that still did not change the fact of no-existing evidence to create a  probable cause affidavit or arrest.   They needed something more.

Al Sharpton

Enter Reverend Al Sharpton, with the plan and his protegé Benjamin Crump to execute the plan.

Based on the same historical playbook for race-based financial reward (see Martin Lee Anderson case), Rev Al pulled out the Tawana Brawley playbook and gave quick lessons to Ben Crump.    I believe Al Sharpton explained the process, and Benjamin Crump took the overall map and overlayed it, or used it, to concoct his ruse.  His media-evidence.

He needed something powerful enough to move both opinion, and legal action, in his favor.  So he concocted “DeeDee” the 16-year-old girlfriend.

Does a “DeeDee” actually exist.   Yes and No.

Mystery woman DeeDeeYes, someone showed up for a sworn statement with Detective O’Steen and Galbrieth,  April 2nd.   But that someone was not the person Benjamin Crump introduced to the media on March 20th.

The person Benjamin Crump introduced to the media, the 16-year-old “DeeDee” was actually a fraud, a figment, a story per se’, built from a few actual real nuggets within the life of Tryavon Martin.    Using phone records Tracy Martin and Ben Crump identified a girl Trayvon spoke with frequently and was good friends with.

Unbeknownst to her – she became DeeDee.   Because she is a figment, let’s call this version of DeeDee “Keyser Soze”.    This is how she was described by Crump:

16-years-old

A girlfriend whom shared puppy love with Trayvon.

A girl he knew from Kindergarten.

A girl he was on the phone with for 700 minutes on the day he was killed.

A girl neither Tracy Martin, nor Sybrina Fulton knew.

A girl who was on the phone with Trayvon when he encountered George.

A girl who never called police after hearing of his death.  Nor did she tell anyone.  Nor did she tell her Mom or Dad.  Nor did she tell her friends.    From 2/26 to 3/19 she had no contact with anyone.

A girl so devastated she could not attend the viewing or funeral.

A girl so devastated she was hospitalized during the weekend of 3/1, 3/2 and 3/3.

A girl they only discovered through phone records on (sunday) 3/18, they interviewed for national TV broadcast, exclusively ABC, via phone on 3/19.   (*an interview where the rules were the reporter, Matt Gutman, was not allowed to ask questions – just listen).   And then delivered the narrative of all above to the media on Tuesday 3/20.

A girl whose parents would NOT allow her to talk to the police, the media, or anyone – ever.

Who was that voice on the ABC recording, that now mysteriously the State cannot locate.  The phone recording done on a device no one can remember, then given to an FBI agent that no-one knows.  The Telephone recording that Benjamin Crump doesn’t remember; the phone recording interview tape that has mysteriously jumped into the rabbit hole?

Who knows.    More than likely a friend of someone within the industrial  Al Sharpton circle of plausible deniability in-just-us.   ( insert any given name of your choice here)

For whatever ridiculous reason, probably fear of the race-baiting class, the media bought the story of Keyser Soze, never asked obvious questions, and insufferably sold it to a sheeple public.   But there were problems.

Bill Lee - Chris SerinoHer story, did not change anything because to the legal system without any sworn statement Keyser Soze’ was great for media advertising time, and kept the scheme team on the talk show circuit, but for the sake of the legal system without swearing under oath an affidavit, she was irrelevant.

Subsequently, while the media furor went into overdrive, the legal case on 3/20 remained static.   Still no cause for arrest.

Rut Roh.

The racial drums beat louder.   But still no change, and now law enforcement together with State Attorney General Pam Bondi, were openly being queried about Keyser Soze.  And could only repeat:  she, whoever she is, is refusing to talk to us.    (*Tawana Brawley like, no?)   This continued from March 20th until April 1st.

So Crump had to produce a person, a physical person, to be sworn by the state to give a witness statement.  He did, and some 18-year-old girl showed up at the FDLE office to swear a statement.    That is the “DeeDee” Bernie De La Rionda knows.

Excerpt from affidavit Dee Dee

That is the “DeeDee” Bernie De La Rionda knows.

3/20 Keyser Soze/DeeDee  is a figment.   Hence the media description does not match the physical person, “witness 8″, who showed up on 4/2 to swear a statement.

Mark O'MaraMark O’Mara and Don West have been beaten over the head with the Keyser Soze version in the media.   They didn’t initially know she was phony.   They did not understand the scope of the scheme to create a series of lies solely for the purpose of arresting their client.

The defense has only recently (Sept) discovered there is no 16-year-old girlfriend DeeDee who was on the phone with Trayvon on the night of the shooting, and who was in the hospital on the weekend of Trayvon’s funeral.

Until September the defense was operating under the assumption Benjamin Crump was telling the truth.

That’s why the defense was asking for an address of this witness and the prosecution would not provide one.     The Defense (O’Mara and West) just wanted to nail down the identity of DeeDee, prior to taking the deposition of a person who may or may not be her.

Whoever they ultimately depose, will not be the person who Benjamin Crump introduced on 3/20 because Keyser Soze does not exist.   The prosecution to this day refuses to identify DeeDee in anything but a name to the defense team, because DeeDee is a risk to them.

So long as the prosecution does not attach an address to DeeDee, once again anyone can show up at the deposition and *presto* become DeeDee.

The 18-year-old DeeDee’s FDLE interview/sworn statement on April 2nd was a rehearsed story; and if you have listed to the interview recording, it was not a very well rehearsed story either.

Angela Corey Rockstar

I am 100% convinced personally, the prosecution knows the fraud – but they can duck for the exits behind plausible deniability.   “We took a statement from the person who showed up”, “we have nothing to do with the Martin Family TV appearances”, “we can’t vouch for her credibility, we just take statements“…..   See how it works.

How can the defense, or more specifically Don West, pull this apart?  How can the complict guise be proven?  These are the questions to unlocking George Zimmerman’s freedom.

These are the same questions which can ultimately lead to corrective action against the Scheme Team.

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333 Responses to DeeDee / Keyser Soze and Occam’s Razor Within The Context….

  1. Arkindole says:

    “He did, and some 18-year-old girl showed up at the FDLE office to swear a statement. That is the “DeeDee” Bernie De La Rionda knows.”
    Isn’t this person verified by ID, such as drivers license? Isn’t the Cripple now locked in by that?

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    • myopiafree says:

      Once 18 year-old Kaiser Soze is deposed by Bernie – she becomes the ONLY DeeDee. Bernie can’t change his mind on this one. When it become clear that she COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TALKING TO TM ON HIS DEAD CELL PHONE, the “jig” is up. She WILL be deposed by O’mara. I would think that she would come under legal considration of perjury – and might be persuaded to TELL THE TRUTH, (about how Crump induced her to be DeeDee) if she is offered immunity from prosecution. She could then write a book and make big buck$.

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      • sundance says:

        Once 18 year-old Kaiser Soze is deposed by Bernie – she becomes the ONLY DeeDee.”… Says who?

        If BDLR et al don’t attend the deposition because they don’t care what she says, the West Deposed Keyser Soze can be anyone. Irrelevent and immaterial so long as the prosecution does not plan to use her at trial.

        I have held that opinion since the first bond hearing. The public will never meet DeeDee because she was only needed to generate the Affidavit for Arrest. Period.

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        • myopiafree says:

          Hi SunDance – Thanks for the correction. Because there are so MANY DeeDees, and so many Crump lies – it is easy to get lost. I thought that Bernie interviewed a REAL PERSON – face to face – and got her name and age. Is that correct? Or did I get that wrong? Please explain if you can.

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          • sundance says:

            BDLR did indeed interview an 18 year old woman presented to him as “DeeDee” by Benjamin Crump. They called this person Witness #8. BDLR and Corey then used her statement to create the affidavit for arrest (see above).

            Done – Next – they are finished with her. Mission accomplished arrest delivered.

            Then they gave the real name of Witness #8 to O’Mara / West.

            So long as a warm body shows up with the same name, absent of any other descriptive or way to identify her, how is O’Mara/West to figure out if this is the right person? Hence they requested her address, the prosecution refused. So O’Mara/West asked the judge to compell the State to provide her descriptive with an address. The judge denied the request.

            O’Mara/West knew the issue with scheme when they identified the age of the witness from the prosecution discovery release of her sworn statement. and have been trying to find a legal remedy to investigate W-8 in advance of deposition.

            But they don’t know who she is, they do know she is not the 16-year-old they were told she was; and now, without an address, anyone can show up at the deposition, well any black female around 18 years old,….. and using the ID of the same person who presented themselves to BDLR, say “she’s DeeDee”. See the prob?

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            • jordan2222 says:

              I cannot imagine West not requiring BLDR to make a positive ID. After all, he said he would personally bring the witness to the depo. Would he actually bring a different person? That should mean a term behind bars?

              Regardless, ‘West will unravel this and make her a witness at the SD hearing if it goes that far .

              Bernie is in a trap that he set himself. Surely he knows that.

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              • Who has the original document that April 2nd version of DeeDee had to have signed as being true to the best of her knowledge? Latent printing expert may be able to prove the April 2nd DeeDee isn’t the same person that the defense eventually deposes

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                • jordan2222 says:

                  O’Mara might have a copy but who knows where the original document is. It’s unthinkable that Bernie would bring another person to the depo other than the one he interviewed. Surely, he knows that such a ploy would be discovered.

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        • jello333 says:

          For at least the past couple months, I’ve been under the impression that MOM/West aren’t at all worried about Dee Dee as far as risk to George goes. As you say, she’ll never be used in court, and even if she was, it’s likely she’d actually harm, far more than help, the prosecution. What I’ve assumed they’ve been up to recently is getting all the Dee Dee info together to use AGAINST the Scheme Team, as part of the evidence of a conspiracy.

          You think that’s about right?

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          • ytz4mee says:

            Yep.
            The DeeDee is now a major liability for the persecution, er, prosecution.
            It’s amusing that they thought if they stalled long enough, West and MOM would give up and just move on to other discovery they could get their hands on.

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          • doodahdaze says:

            She can be used in court by the defense. Just as all the cops can be. She is a category A state witness. But this will never see a trial. The 6th and 14th amendments say so. In order to confront a witness one must know who the witness is. The judge is out on a limb here. She may end up going the way of Lester if she does not order the state to come clean.

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      • Arkindole says:

        “she COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TALKING TO TM ON HIS DEAD CELL PHONE…”
        Tin foil, but the only out would be for the provider to be in on a conspiracy and change an “old” account holder (700 minute caller) to the 18yr old. Ytz brings up a strange comment she made below..Need account history for the number as Ytz and others have said.

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      • JOC56 says:

        “She could then write a book”…I LOL’ed.

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  2. ottawa925 says:

    Well, if all this is true … then ppl need to be removed from their positions … and arrested. It’s hard to believe they would hangs their butts out there like that .. but if so … then they need to spend some serious time behind bars.

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    • sundance says:

      You bring up a great point – one that took me a while to reconcile. But when you pause, reset, put yourself back into that timeframe Mid-March through April 11 (date of arrest) you can see that emotion, not logic, was driving decisionmakers.

      You can almost sense the excuse,… “they had to – to put a lid on the boiling crisis”.. speaking about the Prosecution.

      With all of the above in mind – go back and read the accounts of Tracy and Sybrina after the announced crump discovery of Keyser Soze….

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      • ytz4mee says:

        Footnote 5 from the MTC
        5. In spite of repeated requests, Mr. Crump has refused to disclose to the undersigned (West) if this witness is a minor, a fact necessary under our rules to consider when scheduling a witness for deposition.

        http://tinyurl.com/bt8on2s

        When is Crump going to be held accountable for this BS? It’s getting old.

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      • ftsk420 says:

        Now Dee Dee went to Sybrinas house for the phone interview with Crump if I’m not mistaken and she brought her mother. Did she bring her mother with her to the interview with BDLR? I assumed she had her mom with her because she was a minor.

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        • jordan2222 says:

          Now that’s a “gotcha.”

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        • jordan2222 says:

          BLDR had to know immediately that this was a “set up/scam” if for no other reason than the fact that Bernie himself discovered that she was 18 and not a minor as Crump represented her to be. At that point, surely he had a legal obligation to disclose this fabrication and get to the truth.

          BLDR did not find her as a result of the state’s “independent exhaustive investigation.”

          A man named Benjamin Crump told him about her and NO ONE verified anything about her except that they then realized that Crump had lied about her age. At that point, the interview of the girl should have changed course to find out what she knew about Crump’s now revealed criminal involvement. This all seems incredible. A complete criminal investigation of Crump should have commenced immediately.

          If the State/BLDR can do this and not be severely punished, then why would any citizen have faith in our judicial system?

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          • ytz4mee says:

            Because they were thrilled that they now had a plausible cover story to charge George and get the Crumped up mob off their collective backs, so they didn’t ask too many questions. This was never, ever supposed to get this far along in the process. Remember the pandering (ick) of Corey at the presser? “Remember Trayvon is the victim”. “Trayvon’s sweet parents” “Prayed with Trayvon’s family” etc.

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        • ytz4mee says:

          If she brought along her Mom, Mom is now on the defense depo list.
          And I’m sure Crumpster had reassured them it was no big deal, it would all blow over.

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          • boutis says:

            Do depositions have ID numbers (drivers license numbers, school ID numbers etc) attached to them in the state of Florida? West and MOM should make that a requirement on the depositions so that they can be verified against the date, photo, etc from the issuing entity. Identity fraud on a deposition is a crime.

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      • doodahdaze says:

        See Lester’s comment in open court about “tamping this down.”

        Like

  3. doodahdaze says:

    We all know this. But the root of this lies in the Florida GOP. Governor Scott. AG Bondi. I see no mention of them. The media complex is in bed with the GOP in Floriduh. Too funny. Bondi is still babbling about Obamacare as Scott implements it. Amazing to me. We have total corruption from top to bottom and inside out.

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    • justfactsplz says:

      We do have major corruption. I believe one reason George was not charged is because SPD knew that conversation with Dee Dee never happened. Imagine how they felt when Corey has “Dee Dee” give a sworn statement. HUH?

      Like

      • myopiafree says:

        This has been my contention (and may Treepers). The battery was DEAD on that Cell Phone. I think SPD KNEW THIS. DeeDee has been a massive hoax, a lie to generate a 2nd Degree Murder Charge against the innocent George Zimmerman. The SPD knew this, the FIRST prosecutor Norm Wolfinger knew this, everyone with an ounce of legal common-sense knew this. Everyone LOOKING at the battered nose, the BLOODY SKULL of Geroge – KNEW he had been violently attacked by this “rabid THUG” Trayvon – for no apparent reason.

        Like

        • hooson1st says:

          myopiafree:

          I find it hard to believe that the SPD, who initially handled the investigation by the book and properly, would participate in what would have been a lying cover-up as concerns DeeDee.

          Like

          • sundance says:

            SPD was OUT of it by the time 4/2 came to play. Remember one of the primary reasons Crump gave for DeeDee silence was the unwillingness to trust the SPD. (or so he said)

            No investigator for SPD had anything to do with the “DeeDee” angle. :(

            Like

            • ytz4mee says:

              Yep, but SPD is back in play now.
              And apparently they have a lot they want to share.

              Like

              • jello333 says:

                A bunch of cops, probably in the end ALL of the cops (except for the 3 who pressured Serino), testifying for the defendant?! If this has ever happened before, I sure haven’t seen it.

                Like

              • justfactsplz says:

                While SPD had nothing to do with Dee Dee, they were aware of certain problems concerning the phones.

                Like

                • boutis says:

                  The hysteria over the request from SPD for access to the phone data is what kicked the Scheme Team into overdrive. The family being “harrassed” right after the death of their child by the SPD for the phone data was pushed in the media by members of the Crump law firm to to give cover for denying access to the SPD. Normal police procedure to try to figure out what the victim was doing immediately before his death had them scrambling and denying the police access. If the Martins had concerns about privacy for other people on the phone plan that could have been negotiated and worked out. Tracy Martin still hasn’t provided access to the prosecution and law enforcement. Why? The prosecutions lack of interest in this vital evidence is also damning. They are required by law to verify the evidence they are going to use against the accused. If the prosecution doesn’t have it they don’t have to turn it over during discovery, and BDLR disinterest in it, refusal to assist getting it, and indicates he does not intend on using his star witness.

                  The only reasonable conclusion is that Corey and BDLR intended to bluff with unverified evidence, falsely arrest, deny bail, falsely imprison, impoverish with fake accusations of misused funds to deny legal representation and make living on the run so miserable that Zimmerman and his legal counsel gave up and plead to murder. This is one of the most cynical , criminal, and rotten violations of the bill of rights and due process I have ever heard. The prosecution and the people who put them in place to by-pass Zimmermans rights as a defendant are as culpable as the Scheme team. Without the “State’s” ( Florida and the DOJ) full co-operation this could not have happened. Playing stupid with what was going on is not going to wash.

                  Like

                  • doodahdaze says:

                    The Due Process Clause protects the accused against conviction except proof beyond a reasonable doubt of every fact necessary to constitute the crime with which he is charged. At least it is supposed to. The state can not shift the burden of proof to a defendant to disprove the necessary element of the crime. Yet that is what is going on here. Due to the state wrongfully charging Zimmerman by circumventing the normal process with a “special” prosecutor. The wrongful prosecution forces Zimmerman in to an affirmative defense. This defense does not concede the crime it negates it. In effect it requires the defendant to present a preponderance of the evidence that in effect says, I did not do it. State v. Cohen 568 So.2d 49 (Fla. 1990).
                    In other words Zimmerman must do the work that the state should have done. What kind of due process is that? In Judge Lester’s court Zimmerman found no solace in an impartial trier of the facts. Just the opposite. He found a court collaborating with the state to incriminate his wife.
                    I concur with your statement that this is the most cynical, criminal, and rotten violations of due process ever.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Lester’s decisions deserve further scrutiny. Speculative comments were made here that the State provided some of the language he used. I am also suspicious of his suggestion that other charges should be filed against George.

                    How would one research all of the instances that DeeDee was referenced in court proceedings? That might reveal more about BLDR’s complicity in the deception but I have no clue how to do that other than to listen to all of what was said in court.

                    Like

                  • doodahdaze says:

                    The point I am trying to make is this. Zimmerman is being forced to prove his lack of mens rea…Mens rea is a Latin term meaning “guilty mind.” It refers to the criminal intent that is necessary as an element to be proven in a crime. Mens rea would therefore be present in ALL criminal offenses including both First and Second Degree Murder…instead of the state being forced to prove it.
                    It is the element in Murder 2 that there is no evidence of. Without this element the charge is bogus. Zimmerman must prove his lack of intent rather than the state proving it beyond reasonable doubt.

                    Like

                  • myopiafree says:

                    Boutis – A excellent statement of the profound corruption of the Florida Justice System. They just make an excessive, un-justified charge – and expect the person to “plead out” to a false charge. And if he does not work – they just STARVE HIM TO DEATH financially (Works for A. Corey). However, this is a total “trashing” of our Bill-of-Rights, and YOUR RIGHT to a fair an honest trial.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I get sick every time I think through the details of what you just wrote. This truly shows the total lack of compassion and respect for another human being. George is simply a “throwaway” to them.. used only to achieve financial gain for some of the most despicable people on the planet… all the while perpetuating a system that allows the Crumps, Sharptons, and others to keep blacks hating whites and vice versa.

                    God, I hope someone has to pay for what they have done to George and his family.

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Excellent post, every word of it, and I agree. None of them ever thought this would make it to trial. They were so sure George would plea. I am so fiercely proud of George and Shellie for going the distance. What a testament to their character. I am honored to know them and I am sure, even though I don’t know them, that the rest of the family have this strong character. I feel confident that West will get to the bottom of everything, and I mean everything, that the scheme team and prosecution have done in railroading this upstanding American citizen.

                    Like

          • jello333 says:

            No they wouldn’t have. Which is precisely why the case had to be taken out of their hands.

            Like

            • doodahdaze says:

              CNN is at it again. Now they are comparing the case where the white guy in florida shot a black kid in a gas station. It will never stop with the media, until and if NYT v. Sullivan is overturned and the media is held to account for their lies. The dumbed down masses of dopes in the current US population will never be able to put 2 and 2 together.

              Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      Have you noticed how Scott is acting like Charlie?

      Like

  4. xballer52 says:

    So, where do the phone records come into play? Wouldn’t the “Dee Dee” presented by the State have to be the same one whose phone number appeared in the cell phone logs of Martin?

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Have phone records been produced?

      Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        waltherppk will personally get those phone records and ping logs if no one else does.

        Like

        • jello333 says:

          Walther is our very own Ping Nazi. (And before anyone jumps on me, I think he likes that title. ;) ) But seriously though, he’s exactly right about their potential importance. I’m confident that if they exist, MOM/West will figure out some way to get them (if they don’t have them already).

          Like

    • ottawa925 says:

      There should also be a “history” to the phone attached to DD. Not just of the day of the shooting, but days, weeks, months, years … for as long as she used that phone whether it was in her name or not. Damn, I wish things moved more quickly so that we could get answers to all this very basic stuff.

      Like

      • waltherppk says:

        The complete investigative report on the phones involved will be revealing. By a complete investigative report on the phones, that would include billing records, tower ping logs, and a forensics expert’s analysis and report on the phones themselves as hardware correctly associated by MAC address and SIM card with both the ping logs and the T-Mobile billing records. Everything about the investigative report on the phones should reconcile with what is the testimonial evidence offered by the users of those phones or else that testimony will be impeached by the forensic evidence. The forensic evidence doesn’t make mistakes or tell lies …….but human beings do. Therefore the forensic evidence will have more weight than testimonial evidence and will be considered to be very nearly conclusive or in fact totally conclusive …depending on what the forensic evidence does show. The complete investigative reports on the phones should effectively expose and collapse any fictititous house of cards that has been manufactured by any witnesses who have been lying concerning the use of the phones.

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Yes.
          Since when asked she stated that the phone should be in her name “now”, the history of ownership for the phone is a line of inquiry that needs to be investigated independently.

          And – the ping logs. In the line of questioning about each phone call made, they can ask the DeeDee where she was at the time she made the call. What was she doing when she was chatting on the phone? It would be hard for the BDLR DeeDee to know exactly where she was supposed to be at the time of ALL the calls leading up to the incident. The stated location needs to be correlated to the ping logs.

          If I was on the phone with my good friend while she was being murdered, you can absolutely believe I would never forget EXACTLY where I was or what I was doing, and that would match exactly with my phone ping.

          Like

          • waltherppk says:

            There is more than one way to skin a cat. If the direct approach of getting copies of the Crump / DeeDee “audio deposition” for voice comparison with the BDLR deposed DeeDee is an investigation that goes nowhere ……then the complete investigative reports on the phones can still expose that evidence fabrication and solicitation of false testimony has occurred WRT DeeDee however many DeeDee’s there are …..especially if the forensic evidence shows the number of actual DeeDee’s who were talking to TM within seconds of his death to be zero. The investigative reports on the phones will expose that fraud involving solicitation of false testimony by Crump, and also show tacit conspiracy by BDLR for not authenticating the DeeDee testimonial evidence used as basis for the PCA to arrest GZ. Absent valid authentic evidence to support the PCA against GZ then it was a false arrest and malicious prosecution on its face.

            Like

            • John Galt says:

              “There is more than one way to skin a cat. If the direct approach of getting copies of the Crump / DeeDee “audio deposition” for voice comparison with the BDLR deposed DeeDee is an investigation that goes nowhere”

              Matt Gutman and his recording(s) can also be subpoenaed.

              Like

              • waltherppk says:

                This would seem to be a strategic use of criminal discovery to lay groundwork for civil lawsuits, because there are more direct ways to discredit the criminal case. The way O’Mara and West are going about things is using criminal discovery process to publish facts exposing the scheme team and investigate and establish for the record facts and evidence recognized to be useful in anticipated lawsuits. Given that appears to be the “payday” at the end of the task in the broader scheme of things, you betcha they will be going after Matt Gutman as a preliminary preparation for filing suit against ABC. Deep pockets are in O’Mara’s crosshairs.

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Agree completely. This is no longer about MOM/West trying, or even NEEDING to “discredit the criminal case”. As I’ve said many times before, I think they’re already confident they’ve got that in the bag. It’s now about laying the groundwork, yes, for civil suits… but also for possible criminal indictments.

                  Like

                • justfactsplz says:

                  That is exactly what they are doing.

                  Like

              • jordan2222 says:

                Matt Gutman and his recording(s) can also be subpoenaed.

                Makes me wonder why no one has used that power.

                Like

              • ytz4mee says:

                I was thinking of you ………

                Like

        • doodahdaze says:

          No doubt. That is one reason it seems that the formal investigation by the defense resembles a RICO investigation. The liberal mind sees only one thing here. The Gun. Any other facts are irrelevant to them. The twisted minds of the schemers see the gun as creating a strict liability. Such as in a civil case. To them the fact Zimmerman was armed means he is guilty. If he had not had a gun Martin would be alive. The pity party rolls on.

          Like

      • jello333 says:

        Just remember, it’s a good thing this is happening in Florida. Because in most other states, we would know almost NOTHING at this point.

        Like

  5. LoudaJew says:

    my eyes, my eyes. Angela Corey. she dresses so unprofessional as well. that pink jacket with the black tight nylon top. I think when I saw her smiling (when George was first handcuffed) had to be one of the most evil things I have ever seen. charging George to get re-elected. I wonder what she would have done if Trayvon would have suckerpunched her. she is pure EVIL.

    I still think the highlight of this case will be when Trayvon’s rschool ecords are released. there isn’t any way Trayvon was suspended for 10 days because of an empty marijauna baggie and a pipe. also, he was expelled according to his Facebook page. 10 day suspensions are rare and only for serious criminal activities under the Code of Student Conduct for M-DCPS.
    sorry for being off topic,

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      You know, I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that so many of us have used the word “evil” when talking about Angela Corey. Whether we’re believers in a supreme being or whether we’re not, whether we’re liberal or conservative, it doesn’t seem to matter. Just about all of us on this site have, at one time or another, used the word “evil” to describe that woman. So… can we all be wrong in our impression? I mean, we don’t just say we dislike her, or that she’s a scum, or unethical, or whatever. No, the word is “evil”. Hmm…

      Like

  6. ackbarsays says:

    Sundance, it never hit me until just now, reading through this, but there’s something that “DeeDee” says in that interview about her phone that fits PERFECTLY with what you’re saying. Bernie de la Rionda asked her if the cell phone she used to talk to Trayvon is in her name or someone else’s name, and she said “…it should be NOW under my name.”

    I always thought that was an odd way to answer that question, but now upon reading your synopsis above, it makes perfect sense. It was obvious the first time I listened to her that she had been heavily coached, but I do believe you’re right that she was just a willing face that attached herself to Crump’s lie to advance the agenda.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Think about this. Imagine if Don West was not doggedly researching all this stuff. Imagine if the defense just assumed DeeDee was who they were told she was. Imagine if they scheduled a deposition and sat down.

      She tells their name, presents her ID, and states her age as maybe 19 now….. Wha the? Can you imagine how stunningly screwed O’Mara and West would feel… after being beaten about the head, and guilt, for over a year with this witness who was not who the accusers said she was. All those CNN media appearances facing the family attorneys who have been hammering you with this “objectib and subjectib ebidents”.

      THAT is one weird consideration to contemplate.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “Bernie de la Rionda asked her if the cell phone she used to talk to Trayvon is in her name or someone else’s name, and she said “…it should be NOW under my name.”

      And of course BDLR doesn’t ask any of the obvious followup questions.

      Like

  7. BigMamaTEA says:

    Oh what a tangled web we weave………

    Like

  8. ottawa925 says:

    Does scheme team realize how easy it is going to be for defense to break this so-called DD? It will be like taking candy from a baby. After hearing her interview this girl sounds like a total moron. She does not sound educated at all. One slip … and it’s over. Before they even get to the night of the shooting she will be asked all about who contacted her and how things went after that. This is going to be asking alot of an 18 year old dummy to get her story straight on who approached her … Did she come forward … Who owned the phone … Who was at meeting … Who at the meeting said what to her, so on and so forth. To put all your eggs in that basket is shear insanity. Remember she is not a minor … she’s an adult and the defense will approach her in that manner … she won’t get that and be unprepared. BDLR handled her like she was 5 years old. Defense is under no obligation now to treat her like a kid, nor should they. They need to rattle the cage … once rattled … it will all come spilling out.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      The State never said they were going to use her at trial. She served her purpose and told a story that led to an arrest affidavit.

      Moving forward – Knowing they never planned to use her at a trial…. What difference does it make now -in the criminal trial context- whatever she says?

      As long as she does not admit the State Prosecutor knew she was making it up, no-one would give a hoot (or a crump).

      Like

      • ctdar says:

        No one gives a crump! Lol

        Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        The STATE never said, but can the defense call her? and that would be for the purpose of disclosing the ruse.

        Like

        • sundance says:

          Remember getting to trial is the goal. Winning in a trial is not.

          Like

          • ytz4mee says:

            Yes, but the defense could call her as part of the immunity / self defense hearing, if they are able to successfully unravel her crumped up fiction, which doesn’t seem that hard.

            Like

            • sundance says:

              Hence, the prosecution unwillingness to give an address prior to deposition. That stops any pre-deposition investigation.

              Like

              • ytz4mee says:

                Yes, but she has to remain consistent throughout the deposition. You know the drill. Ask the same question, but in slightly different forms, at different times in the depo. The answers for a liar won’t match up. Or ask the sequence of events backwards, etc.

                Plus, this whole nonsense of playing games about the DeeDee just makes is so obvious for even those NOT paying attention it’s a scam. The prosecution hasn’t acted like this about info for any other witness. Only the DeeDee. The DeeDee so conveniently found with the exact talking points from the narrative.

                Like

          • ottawa925 says:

            yes … however, defense should keep that tactic in mind should they decide that if GZ IS to go to trial, then they should not only defend GZ vigorously but take the attitude that if push is coming to shove … if GZ goes … so does the whole house of cards. At that point I would call DD and delve very deeply into who approached her … and all that very long road. They used her against GZ, so they need to turn that around and use her against the scheme team. That goof was putting words in her mouth throughout the entire interview. It was like he was doing Woody Allen from .. was it Bananas? Where he acted as attorney and ask himself a question, then quickly ran into the Witness box and answered.

            I believe I have a clip:

            Like

      • dizzymissl says:

        Hopefully the FL state bar gives a crump and pulls his license.

        Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        Sundance said: As long as she does not admit the State Prosecutor knew she was making it up

        Hard for me to imagine West not getting her to admit the truth.

        Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Kaiser Soze – is smarter than you think. This will indeed HIT the national news networks. There is a SLIGHT threat of perjury for her – but then she will TELL ALL. That will mean interviews on all the networks, and JOB OFFERS to her. She just has to play a “waiting game”. Crump is in deep trouble – when this gets out.

      Like

      • sundance says:

        Maybe, but I don’t remember Al Sharpton getting in deep trouble over Tawana Brawley. His circle will probably create a medal in his honor for creativity against the man.

        Like

        • John Galt says:

          There was a $65,000 judgment against Sharpton which was paid by others, including Johnnie Cochran. As far as I can tell, nothing happened to Tawana Brawley, other than a $185,000 default judgment, which apparently was never paid.

          Like

        • hooson1st says:

          as I recall, the prosecutor won a libel judgement against Sharpton, but Sharpton never paid up

          Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          And that got publicity. Notice how this recent motion is only a bombshell to us and not to the media. Amazing that they sold a false narrative about a minor child and even now, refuse to correct it. Oh, boy.

          LOL

          Like

        • jello333 says:

          But things have changed. Back then, once Sharpton’s story began to unravel, most people just stood there with their mouths hanging open, unable to believe that someone had actually tried to pull such a racist scam. But now a LOT of people saw what was going on in this case, almost from the start. And I think it’s fair to say that once Sharpton made his first appearance, the whole Brawley deal came flooding back into people’s collective memories. So, sooner or later, people are gonna get angry enough to refuse to let another one of these racist cases get swept under the rug… and I think this may just be the case.

          Like

    • John Galt says:

      The only way out for Crump is if she was held back a couple of years and thus would be expected to be 16 years old based on grade level. Still pretty incompetent not to verify her age, although perhaps that could be sold to the judge as within standards for Crump.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Remember that in the latest motion, West says he’s gonna have “analysis” done on Crump’s tape. We assume that’s partly to show what kind of pauses and splices there might be in the recording. But I also believe he’s talking about voice analysis… he’s gonna have them compare Crump’s Dee Dee to Bernie’s Dee Dee. Yay!

        Like

      • ytz4mee says:

        Footnote 5 from the MTC
        5. In spite of repeated requests, Mr. Crump has refused to disclose to the undersigned (West) if this witness is a minor, a fact necessary under our rules to consider when scheduling a witness for deposition.

        http://tinyurl.com/bt8on2s

        Like

  9. rumpole2 says:

    If they were casting a Dee Dee especially for BDLR to interview… why didn’t they pick one who was a bit more articulate?
    Answering my own question.. maybe they wanted somebody that it would be almost impossible to question and get coherent answers?

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      I think she was putting on an act. She sounded like she was sedated. I think her “acting voice” and Crumps bad recording were planned. Makes harder to identify different voices.

      Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        well another thing is: interview vs. dep. In a dep, I doubt they would allow her to have the chewing gum in her mouth. She had something in her mouth. Either candy or gum. In a dep, you must give clear answers as a court reporter takes it down. You cannot go … uh huh. You must answer clearly with a yes, a no, and everytime the goof attorney kept filling in her answers … there would be an objection. The defense deposing her would make HER provide all the details, and it’s THOSE details that she would have to stand by if she was called to testify in court. You can just toss the interview that the goof did as being entered into evidence. This defense team should be able to put the kabash on it quickly as it oversteps so many boundaries. That’s what I think anyway. She is an adult, so nothing should stop her being deposed. Not led by the nose.

        Like

      • ftsk420 says:

        Flash back to Twana Brawley they said she appeared sedated in her interview to.

        Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      I think SD has some clues as to how she was “found.” I have no doubt that most blacks can speak Ebonics. It is a like a necessary language to many even they normally speak the King’s English. Even BO can talk that talk.

      Like

      • Angel says:

        ” I have no doubt that most blacks can speak Ebonics. It is a like a necessary language to many even they normally speak the King’s English. Even BO can talk that talk.”

        Dats right, bro! I be bilingual because I be knowing two of dem languages, yo!

        LOL! I am just having a little laugh at myself because I code-switch sometimes.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          I have a white friend from NJ who speaks it fluently. SD can speak the Crumpese dialect. I used to speak a little Gullah.

          Like

        • John Galt says:

          “I have no doubt that most blacks can speak Ebonics”

          Not so sure. I lived in Arlington for 9 years and worked out and played basketball with black guys on a daily basis. One day on a basketball court, another black guy approached me and my black friend and let loose a protracted string of Ebonics. The Ebonics speaker then broke out into laughter, joined by my friend. After the Eboncis speaker left, I asked my friend, “What’s so funny?” He replied, “I didn’t understand any of it, I was just laughing to be polite.”

          Like

    • jello333 says:

      I think Bernie was actually AFRAID to have her clarify some things. “He say he gon run from the back.” “Excuse me? He’s what?” “The back. He gon run from the back.” “Umm, ok. Continue.” ;)

      Like

  10. sundance says:

    Maybe I’m way off on my thinking (certainly wouldn’t be the first time) but I don’t see a downside to the prosecution use of a faux-DeeDee. I’ve been thinking about this, and watching it play out for months….

    So long as the proseuction had no intention of ever calling DeeDee to testify…..

    ….. the only downside would be “if” the defense knew who DeeDee of 4/2/12 was prior to their deposition of her which would permit investigation of her ahead of a deposition. Hence, the refusal to reveal her address – which the Judge allowed under the niave concept of “just ask her when she sits down”.

    I’m not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn, but I just don’t see any danger to the prosecution. Their goal is not to win at trial, their goal is to get to a trial….. or try so hard they get the credit for doing so. Perhaps a legally minded sort could correct my thinking.

    Like

    • ytz4mee says:

      I strongly disagree.
      Zimmerman is being railroaded in gross perversion of all the tenets of the “Justice” system.

      Crump and NatJack exploited this case using the philosophy and top cover of the Holder “Just-Us” system. The Anderson case was the template, and the same players were at the table.

      Corey was brought in to appease the mob. Her specialty is to over-charge and then negotiate a plea deal. THAT is why she was chosen, and which is why the first thing she did was dismiss the Grand Jury, because of the probability that they would not return a finding of Probable Cause. Plus, her personal friendship/relationship with State AG Bondi guaranteed for the Scheme Team that this was a “done deal”. From their perspective, Win-Win all round. The Scheme Team gets their arrest and conviction (through plea bargain) leading to the big ca-ching, Bondi gets political credit for averting a race crisis in FL, Corey gets kudos for another notch in her shameful heavy handed prosecutorial belt.
      The race-baiters, esp the NAACP and Black Panthers can crow about another political/PR victory, and the blame Whites/invoke guilt game for profit and power continues chugging along.

      The only problem was, they didn’t have plausible probable cause. And the Scheme Team was making sure that the investigation only went where they wanted it to — innocent black chile gunned down by heartless racist white vigilante – profiled, pursued and executed.

      Ergo, the refusal to provide the PIN info for the account to unlock the phone, fighting the unsealing of school discipline and academic records, etc. They know what they have, and that is why they are so stubborn in the refusal to cooperate. You know the saying, innocent people have nothing to hide? They have everything to hide.

      Yes, the DeeDee was manufactured and she fulfilled a purpose – for the Scheme Team and their enablers.

      The only loser was Zimmerman, but in the immortal words of die dunkel Fuhrer – he’s a mere bump in the road. And he refused to play along. He actually has the audacity to not only believe he is innocent, but stand firm in his conviction that he was right to defend his own life with force. Shame!

      West is crafting not only a dismissal with immunity based on self-defense, he is painstakingly piecing together a case for gross prosecutorial misconduct and malicious prosecution. Therefore, the entire history of the DeeDee, and who knew what, and when…. especially of all the actors on the State side – is absolutely essential. It doesn’t matter if the State never intended to use her at trial, the field of play has shifted – she is now a key component of George’s defense and George’s opportunity for civil litigation and damages. And the State has legal and ethical obligations to provide all the info related to the DeeDee upfront and in a forthright manner. Which of course, they have, and continue to, refuse to do. That in and of itself speaks volumes to even the most casual observer.

      Like

      • sundance says:

        I agree with the motivation of West as outlined in your last paragraph completly. However, I am less optimistic that any such “gross prosecutorial misconduct and malicious prosecution” case will come about.

        Yes, it should…. but given the politics we are talking about here. do you really think Don West is going to go that far rogue and bring down Rick Scott, Pam bondi, Angela Corey and the entire apparatus?

        I think that is a stretch…. I wish it true, by God and Gospel I wish it were…. I just don’t see it. Look at the judge and her approach alone. Then think to the attorney who dropped Shellie Zimmerman like a hot potato….. I just don’t see it going *there*. Unfortunately.

        (and keep in mind – I’ve been on this angle since late April)

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Back in April/May, yes, I would have concurred.
          But the political winds in this case are shifting.
          Look how quickly the Corporate Media wants to move on from this.
          Lots of people on the ground are also not only fed up, they’re embarrassed by this entire charade.
          Plus, it opens up a much bigger financial prize for George – and his attorneys – if it succeeds.
          Do you really think there is any love lost between West and the Scheme Team? Bondi and Scott have both lost most of their political capital as well.

          Like

          • sundance says:

            So what you’re saying is the only downside for BDLR/Corey is Don West?

            Like

            • John Galt says:

              The only downside for BDLR / Corey & Scheme Team is Don West. When you put it like that, maybe he should gear up to Level 3.

              Like

            • ytz4mee says:

              West holds the key to their financial and professional implosion. And I am sure there is some ugly personal history there. West in essence volunteered himself for this position, and resigned as a FEDERAL level public defender (correction)
              West spent several years in private practice, specializing in death penalty cases, before joining the federal public defender’s office in Orlando. He left that job Thursday, specifically to join O’Mara and defend Zimmerman, he said.http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-31/news/os-george-zimmerman-new-lawyer-west-20120531_1_federal-public-defender-defense-lawyer-legal-team

              In the vicious dog-eat-dog world of trial attorneys, if West destroys their careers, he irrevocably burnishes his. He is then the ultimate Alpha dog of the Florida legal pack. Murder/Death penalty specialist who brought down a formerly untouchable State AG? Please! It’s a no brainer.

              Don’t forget how quickly the worm turned in the Duke Lacrosse case, either. By the end of it all, there was NO sympathy to be found for Nifong anywhere.

              West will enjoy burning BDLR and Corey. Turn off the sound and watch the body language. BDLR disgusts him in his gross incompetence and beta-male flailing.
              I have often wondered if West resigned his cush position and joined the case specifically for the opportunity to burn BDLR. West didn’t need this case for his professional rep – it was already made, established. This is personal.

              Like

        • selfdefenseadvocate says:

          sundance, I agree. I don’t think anything will happen to the attorneys (Scheme Team). I am relatively new to this board, but not to this case. I have followed it since day 1, mainly because of the Stand Your Ground law, of which I am a strong proponent. I was shocked when 2nd Degree Murder was filed in this case. imo, it should have gone to Grand Jury and not to the very special Ms. Corey (YUK!)

          “Dee Dee” has always been my main focus as far as so called evidence (also as ebidence) is concerned. When you say there were 2 different Dee Dees, do you mean literally or figuratively? Crump spread his proaganda about her being 16 years old but we know that was for media hype. The voice sounds different on the recordings but that could possibly because of background interference, volume being adjusted or any number of things. We now know for certain that “she” was 18 years old when BDL interviewed her. (I don’t recall-Was she under oath?). Anyway, my question is why do you think and what evidence do we have that there are 2 different Dee Dees? I know you have explained it, but it hasn’t sunk into the left side of my brain. We know for certain that she is over age 18 and she is not entitled to privacy any more than any other witness, but how do we know she is fictional? I do agree that the state never intended to use her in a trial and she served her purpose for the Probable Cause Affidavit . I don’t think they ever thought there would be a trial- still don’t.

          The politcs in this case are sickening and I would like to see Bondi, Scott & Corey brought down, but that won’t happen. They would just pull a Charlie Crist and “go rogue” (if they haven’t already). No I am not a troll, but a truth seeker- the reason I came to this board a while back- The Truth Has No Agenda.

          Like

          • sundance says:

            I’m not sure what you are asking. The 3/20/12 DeeDee was a made up story of a persona fabricated from actual events in the life of Trayvon Martin. The physical person who played the 3/19/12 role with Matt Gutman and became the ear-witness was someone in Ft Lauderdale….

            the 4/2/12 DeeDee was a totally different person, now known to identify as 18-years-of-age, from within the circle of the black community who use lies, fraud, deceit, and scams as a natural course of their lifestyle and culture. The entire apparatus around the culture of race-baiting is fraught with professionals who are experts at manipulation and corruption without consequence.

            http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/06/22/how-tracy-martin-found-benjamin-crump-and-daryl-parks-adjusted-re-post/

            http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/10/update-20-trayvon-martin-shooting-odd-associations-the-periphery-of-trayvon-martin-attorney-benjamin-crump-and-daryl-parks/

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              Assuming that George will be declared immune and that others will be exposed to be “crooks, liars and criminals,” the CTH could become an advanced level case study course in how to fight back and win in the face of seemingly insurmountable circumstances and impossible odds via the internet.

              Like

            • selfdefenseadvocate says:

              No doubt about all the political relationships, contacts and expert manipulation of the media, but I’m still trying to wrap my head around “Dee Dee” being a fictional entity . We know the name “Dee Dee” is fictional and we know the phone with the heart on it was dead but are you saying we know there was no real person on the phone with Trayvon when he went to the store? Since we don’t have the cell phone records (ping records, etc) how can we know for certain whether Trayvon was on the phone with someone who has been dubbed as “Dee Dee”?. Since Crump has not produced the phone records, that is why the Motion to Compel. Do we KNOW the person behind the fictional name “Dee Dee” is in fact a fictional character? Is that what you are saying? Sometimes it “feels” (emotionally) that the whole world is smarter than I. Thanks for helping me sort it out. When I don’t know something I ask questions, trying to find answers.

              Like

      • myopiafree says:

        Ytz4 – Stated with excellence and clarity!

        Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        Wow. I gotta go with ytz on this one. Well written.

        Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        ytz4mee

        I am with you on this and you have said it perfectly. Don West will find both of those DeeDee’s and will do his best to depose/question them until he gets the truth. He will call one or both of them to the stand at the SD hearing and make sure there will be no trial.

        Insofar as malicious prosecution, that is very rare but I believe that West will earnestly pursue that strategy. He was already thinking about that when he made the comment about deposing Bernie.

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Exactly. And either I’ve been reading too many of your comments or you’ve been reading too many of mine… because I agree 100% with this:

        “Therefore, the entire history of the DeeDee, and who knew what, and when…. especially of all the actors on the State side – is absolutely essential. It doesn’t matter if the State never intended to use her at trial, the field of play has shifted – she is now a key component of George’s defense and George’s opportunity for civil litigation and damages.”

        In other words, Dee Dee(s) is no longer a prosecution witness. She is now a witness for George… in the criminal trial, and beyond.

        Like

    • boricuafudd says:

      SD, I had propose this several months ago, right after her useless depo by BDLR, which was so terrible as to be useless. I always thought after that, that the prosecution would do without her, as you have stated is not about winning but appeasing the mob. The prosecution has given the appearance that it tried, but could not win. Mission Accomplished.

      Like

    • MJW says:

      Maybe I’m way off on my thinking (certainly wouldn’t be the first time) but I don’t see a downside to the prosecution use of a faux-DeeDee.

      Other than disbarment and possible prison time, none at all.

      Like

    • doodahdaze says:

      The defense can call her.

      Like

  11. Knuckledraggingwino says:

    Whoever Crump hired to portray Double Dee Dee is not going to be willing to go to jail for him or be sued for anything she might ever have. She will either refuse to testify or tell the truth in return for civil indemnification. BDLR will be extremely culpable for not doing due diligence to positively ID his key witness. His excuses that he was to busy inspecting TrayMom’s tats and verifying Double Dee Dee’s bra size will not cut it.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      BDLR had nothing to do with the vetting of DeeDee. That was Gailbraith and O’Steen (?)…. BDLR is just working with the paper – the actual recordings of her statement – and prepared for litigation. Corey filed the affidavit based partly on the content of that sworn statement, that’s it. Nothing more.

      Knowing he, BDLR/Corey, never intended to bring DeeDee to a courtroom, does that make it easier to digest.

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        “BDLR had nothing to do with the vetting of DeeDee.”

        BDLR usurped investigator vetting by conducting a scripted, leading interview which contains obvious indications of perjury. According to West, BDLR has been consistently stonewalling discovery. It shouldn’t take much more to fry BDLR.

        Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        omg … you gotta be chittn me. The Affidavit was based in part on the interview BDLR did with DD? the interview where he answered all the questions for DD that he asked of DD? omg …. I gotta go lie down. Did anyone with a brain listen to that interview and not see how the girl was led all the way down the lane? and that helps make a charge of murder 2? oh lord give me strength.

        Like

  12. sundance says:

    April 22nd was when I recognized what I thought was the disparity we all now fully are aware of.

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/22/update-11-trayvon-martin-shooting-final-deconstruction-of-benjamin-crumps-media-evidence/

    Gilbreath was what made me recognize it. His conversation with O’Mara proved to me that something was wrong. If DeeDee had the information Crump said she had, then it would have been noted in Gilbreath’s comment back to O’Mara:

    O’Mara – “Do you know who started the fight?”

    Gilbreath – “Do I know? No”

    O’Mara – “Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?”

    Gilbreath – “No.”

    O’Mara – “Do you have any evidence, any evidence at all, any witnesses, any statements, anything that would contradict Mr. Zimmerman’s assertion?

    Gilbreath – Err, no. Well, do I know who punched first? No.

    If “DeeDee” had given the same statement to them on 4/2 that supposedly she told to ABC and Ben Crump on 3/20 then Gilbreath would have answered completely differently because he would know, at least from DeeDee’s perspective about the origin of the scuffle. He would have said we have a witness who heard the origin of the fight.

    April 26th was when I realized there were two “versions” of DeeDee – one crump sold, and the other was the one the prosecution met.

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/26/trayvon-martin-shooting-you-will-never-meet-deedee-but-you-can-confront-the-media/

    Deposing Gilbreath before DeeDee might, just might, help… dunno.

    Like

    • hooson1st says:

      Let’s remember, that there is a lot that we still don’t know.

      Presumably, MOM and West are using investigators (or maybe not). But if they are, they have likely dug up a lot of information that answer some of the questions that are under speculation at CTH.

      You will note in their filings with the court, that they only rely on what the prosecution has done or has not done. They may have relied on information they privately obtained through investigation (to confirm for themselves the accuracy of) to put matters before the court in a certain sequence which ostensibly are only based on what the prosecution has released in response to discovery requests.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        And just to put this out there, since it hasn’t been mentioned for awhile: I bet MOM or West have talked with one or more of the 3 Stooges, which could easily link in with the timing of the supposed phone calls with The Dee Dee.

        Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          I never heard anything about the three stooges except for the video I saw here.

          Like

          • jello333 says:

            Yeah, just their presence in the store isn’t that big a deal. What MAY be a big deal is that it’s almost certain that money changed hands (from Trayvon to one of the Stooges), and then Trayvon waited around outside the store until one of the Stooges left, 5 minutes later. Had the tape not been deconstructed, and those bits brought to light, I wouldn’t have thought twice about those guys. And I’m sure the same would go for MOM. But since I’m certain he MUST have seen what we saw, MOM surely would pursue that avenue.

            Like

            • justfactsplz says:

              I am sure he has or will. SPD had investigated the 7-11 situation also.

              Like

              • sundance says:

                SPD never investigated the 3 stooges. Only the clerk who sold Trayvon the Watermelon Juice and Skittles. The clerk had no recollection of Trayvon, or that shift. Nothing. (((crickets)))

                No-one from Law Enforcement interviewed the 3 stooges, looked for the 3 stooges, accepts the existence of the 3 stooges, nor have they researched their association and commerce with trayvon.

                Like

                • James F says:

                  I found this attempted transcript of Crump’s DeeDee interview. Who knows how accurate it is, but DeeDee specifically mentioned “there were other customers.” I did not see any other customers in the video while Trayvon was in the store, and why would he bother mentioning them if there were? If this transcript is accurate, DeeDee can only being referring to the stooges. And why would Trayvon mention them to her, unless he interacted with them?

                  DeeDee: Alright. It was around supper 03:31 he went to the (unintelligible) to get his little brother a little candy and an Arizona because he said they didn’t have anything to drink or whatever. (unintelligible)

                  3:44 there were other customers and he went back and it started raining and he went to that little like that little apartment shed thing cause it raining so hard real hard (unintelligible) 3:58 the rain slowed down, yeah (unintelligible) and then he said this man right there this man was like looking at him like he doing something so (unintelligible) 4:11 so he put his hoodie on cause he was going to run from the back because this man was watching him.

                  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iHSrnGPs4Qptsla_EMMR-NdhioDTHQAtAExH1OgackU/edit?pli=1

                  Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Good find…. thanks.

                    Like

                  • doodahdaze says:

                    She went to hospital cause she could not Pee? I thought it was HBP. There are mental disorders that cause this problem. Also drugs such as Heroine. They lie again.

                    Severe cases of this disorder can have highly restricting effects on a person’s life. In moderate to severe cases, overcoming paruresis can be extremely difficult without the help of a psychologist, therapist or support groups. Severe sufferers may not be willing to travel far from their home or be able to form intimate relationships. Others cannot urinate even in their own home if someone else can be heard to be there.
                    Some drugs can cause difficulty in urination; MDMA, amphetamines and opiates such as heroin, hydrocodone, or synthetic opioids such as methadone in particular. It varies in severity and from person to person, but many users and abusers of these substances find themselves suffering from paruresis. Partly this is a physical side effect of these substances, but it is often seemingly a psychological symptom, directly related with “shyness”, etc., like paruresis. While drugs such as heroin can make it more or less impossible to urinate, the effect can vary, and very often has a direct resemblance to “ordinary” paruresis, i.e. the user may find it impossible to urinate at all, or he/she may only be able to urinate when alone.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Humm. That’s exactly the opposite of the Igottapee dance.

                    Like

                • jello333 says:

                  “No-one from Law Enforcement interviewed the 3 stooges, looked for the 3 stooges, accepts the existence of the 3 stooges, nor have they researched their association and commerce with trayvon.”

                  Why do I have this feeling that something has been left unsaid, and that the key part of that sentence is “from Law Enforcement” ? ;)

                  Like

                • justfactsplz says:

                  That is correct, I did not mean to imply that SPD investigated the three stooges. By saying they investigated the 7-11 situation I meant they studied the surveillance video and interviewed the clerk. And you are right, the clerk did not remember Trayvon. When I first heard about this and saw the video released by the prosecution I felt like the tape was a fake, that it wasn’t really Trayvon, just someone portraying him. But that was my own personal thoughts about the 7-11. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I don’t know what to make of the video concerning the three stooges.

                  Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I once saw a video that enlarged them and showed what happened frame by frame with commentary. I personally could not conclude that a crime took place except for the blunt purchase by them for a minor. I saw some speculation but that could only be confirmed if the 3 stooges cooperated. I do suspect that Martin might have been under the influence more than what has been revealed but only the full tox report could establish that.

                    That said, I still believe that this was not the first time Martin assaulted someone. If they have a good DNA sample, then maybe it could be compared to DNA found on other crime victims in areas where he lived.

                    That would be huge to match him up to another violent assault or possibly a murder. That would be a lot more damaging than any school records, for sure.

                    I wonder if LE has even seriously considered this.

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Yes I believe Trayvon had more signs of drugs in his body and on his person. I also believe that he had attacked and beaten people before.

                    Like

                  • jello333 says:

                    Oh, don’t get me wrong about my opinion of the significance of the 3 Stooges video. I DO believe that money changed hands to buy the blunts, and I DO believe Martin waited outside to get that, or maybe make some other “transactions”. But for me, the importance of that is NOT that some (probably minor) crime may have been committed. I think you guys could probably guess that I think most marijuana laws a WRONG in the first place. And so buying a little weed?… no big deal to me (other than that he was a minor).

                    No, what I think is important about this video is that it proves that Trayvon was NOT just out to buy some candy for his wee, crying, starving little brother. And further, it MAY be able to link him even more into the “sizzurp” theory, which MAY help explain his actions that night. And who knows what exactly the 3 Stooges themselves may know about Trayvon? Oh, and by the way, I have no problem with THEM either. When I first saw the video, I thought like everyone else did… “What a bunch of menacing-looking weirdos!” But then it became clear that they were just goofing around, messing with the clerk (who I think knew them). I was their age once, and so I have no problem with being stupid and having fun… as long as you’re not hurting anyone in the process.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I do not think you meant to say, starving little brother.

                    Like

                  • jello333 says:

                    Oh yes. Trayvon’s 3-yr-old (or was he 2?) little brother Chad. No food in the house, so Trayvon runs as fast as he can to get the poor crying toddler a snack. And just before he gets back home?… well…

                    (and yeah of course I know he wasn’t his brother ;) )

                    Like

  13. jordan2222 says:

    Sundance: There is no way the defense would take a deposition from BLDR’s DeeDee without verifying that she is the same one BLDR interviewed. Certainly, someone from the state will be required to confirm she is the correct DeeDee.

    I would also think that the defense would call her as a witness at the SD hearing. She is in the charging document so surely they have the right to do that.

    Not sure how the defense will expose Crump but I cannot imagine them not requiring that the State or Crump produce the 16 year old that is the basis of the 2nd degree murder charge. West is smart enough to figure this out and make that happen.

    Am I missing something?

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Yes, actually you are missing something. In the 2nd to last hearing Don West tried and failed to get the judge to insure he would be deposing the “right DeeDee”, when he requested the address.

      Judge denied his request and just said, “ask her when she sits down”. To which West replied, well can I just ask her the address then “pause the deposition” and request your approval for me to return at a later date. To which the judge responded “we’ll deal with that when the time comes”…. Go back and watch the hearing.

      Secondly – a “16-year-old” is not the basis for a 2nd degree murder charge. An 18 year old is. The State has never talked about, elluded to, inferred, or presented DeeDee as a 16-year-old anything. Only Crump has…. and not to the State… only to the media…. which does not matter in court.

      Knowing what you know now watch this again.

      Like

      • ytz4mee says:

        BDLR’s sarcasm about the identity of the DeeDee continues to floor me. It’s almost as if he thinks he can pocket her indefinitely in violation of all the procedural rules. It’s so …… remarkable I have trouble believing it, even though the evidence is there in his attitude and statements at the hearing. The feigned outrage … he’s such a lousy actor.

        Maybe he’s hoping that West will move on to the SD/Immunity hearing without the DeeDee, thereby absolving him of any culpability/liability. Yeah, good luck with that Bernie.

        Like

        • sundance says:

          Oh, I am absolutely convinced, beyond any reasonable and intellectual question, that BDLR knows the person he met on 4/2/12 was not the person Crump sold on 3/20/12.

          Whether “that” can be proven in some way is highly unlikely. However, when I watched him in this hearing I went from 95% probability to 100% certainty in my thought process.

          You are absolutely right.

          Like

          • Chip Bennett says:

            Oh, I am absolutely convinced, beyond any reasonable and intellectual question, that BDLR knows the person he met on 4/2/12 was not the person Crump sold on 3/20/12.

            Whether “that” can be proven in some way is highly unlikely

            Question: has either the State or the Court treated W8 as if she were a minor, whether in the withholding of her identity, the way she is redacted in discovery documents, etc.? If she has been protected more than other, adult witnesses, and in a manner consistent with the handling of a minor, wouldn’t that be implicit evidence that somewhere along the way, the State presented W8 as a minor?

            Like

            • sundance says:

              Good point. I was thinking something similar earlier today. I bet Diawataman would know. He knows those motions like the back of his hand.

              Like

              • ytz4mee says:

                They did redact her age initially, but I guess they finally realized the ruse was going to be discovered when West kept pressing for his right to depo.

                Like

            • ftsk420 says:

              As far as I have seen they have, the 10/19/2012 hearing they mention her being a minor and at that point leave out her name because of it. MOM said “in good lords name if she isn’t a juvenile why does he keep telling me she’s a juvenile and her name needs to be protected”

              I read somewhere that Dee Dee wasn’t listed by name but by a number don’t know if she was the only one but I’ll see if I can find it again.

              Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        I stand corrected on the 16 year old being the person in the charging document but in saying that, they both represent the same thing but yes, to be precise, it is the State’s DeeDee.

        Below you reference some comments you made about you and DMan having figured this out. That is when I revisited both the ABC tape and Bernie’s tape and figured out that they probably were not the same. I posted your comments again, at least once and maybe more. At that time, it became apparent that others were becoming suspicious and the conversation evolved with some being 100 percent convinced.

        The bombshell, I think for all of us was the age of the State’s DeeDee.

        We all made comments about Nelson’s decision to not release the addresses and I was quite vocal about how absurd that was because it would require another depo, if Nelson would allow it, and prevented the defense from doing an investigation prior to the depo.

        Small points but that post you made turned a lot of us around .

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Which I think is why West specifically asked about continuance of a depo – essentially putting it on hold and picking up where it left off, instead of having to file for a new one.

          It’s a slower process, but they can get to the same place. First sit-down, establish who she purports to be, ID, address, schools attended, relationship to TM. Very basic base line stuff, now on the record. Hit the “pause” button, have PI go and investigate and then re-start depo.

          Although it is frustrating, the first sit-down will also allow West the opportunity to gauge what he’s dealing with. The pathetically coached DeeDee in BDLR’s interview doesn’t sound that bright …. or really interested in the case. I didn’t get any sense that she was super-motivated to make sure TM got “justice”. Which makes me wonder what she was offered to play along.

          Like

          • jordan2222 says:

            OOOUUCCHHH! What she was offered?

            Now you are getting nasty. It is one thing to lie but to do it for financial gain that could send a man to prison for life.. .. oh well. That is scary stuff.

            Like

      • jello333 says:

        Alright, about the judge refusing to allow the defense to get Dee Dee 2’s address and stuff before the deposition: I won’t be surprised if they try again in this upcoming hearing. They SHOULD, at least. But this time, they can be more blunt about WHY they need that.

        “Your honor, we are going to ask again that you order the state to give us information about Witness #8 before we depose her. And since you’ll have to understand exactly WHY this info is so important, we will unfortunately need to say something in open court we hoped to avoid. Your honor, we have reason to believe the state has lied about the identity of the girl they say was on the phone with Trayvon, and in fact there are at least two persons who….”

        And then lay it all out. Is there some reason MOM or West can’t do that, and watch some Bernie and Crump and Jackson heads explode?

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Crump will be reduced to pulling out the ultimate weapon: The Chewbacca Defense

          Like

        • Knuckledraggingwino says:

          This is exactly what will occur on 12-11-12. MoM and West will openly charge BDLR with fraudulent prosecution and they will have suffecient evidence to prove it. This will be concurrent with Crump’s continuing refusal to provide the original audio of the first, Double Dee Dee interview in which others on this site ID two voices purporting to be Double Dee Dee.

          Keep in mind the context of this case where the poverty pimping industry was threatening thug riots if GZ was not arrested. This spectre of thug riots remains if GZ is exonerated. Judge Nelson is smart enough to understand that GZ will be exonerated. The only remaining option to avert thug riots s to expose the fraud and so thoroughly discredit Parks, Crump, Nast Natalie Jackson, Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that even the AA community will realize that they are FOS.

          Finally; consider what is going through the Double Dee Dee’s minds right now. Both girls (all three?) were told that they were just giving a taped interviews or depositions but would not have to be subjected to deposition by the defense or cross examination in court. If I was MoM and West, I would have some very public conversations about perjury just to communicate to the Double Dee Dee’s what the consequences could be. I would PUBLICLY suggest tom the Double Dee Dees that they should retain their own attorneys to advise them and that recantation prior to deposition would inspire forgiveness.

          Like

          • jello333 says:

            Some great points there. And this gives me some confidence in how Nelson will deal with things:

            “This spectre of thug riots remains if GZ is exonerated. Judge Nelson is smart enough to understand that GZ will be exonerated. The only remaining option to avert thug riots s to expose the fraud and so thoroughly discredit Parks, Crump, ” etc.

            I hadn’t thought about it that way, but you’re right. We’ve mostly been assuming that Nelson is gonna be hesitant to go after the Scheme Team members too harshly. HOWEVER, if the only way to make it clear to the public WHY this case is gonna be dismissed is to expose the conspiracy, she just might do it.

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              I have already begun to think about how this would be revealed to the public. Would Nelson call any of the main players in advance of a decision to free George? If there really is credible threat of race riots, would she contact Governor Scott?

              I am not implying that she tell anyone of her complete decision but to alert them that a major announcement will be made at a certain time on a certain date.

              OR.. she could simply call Scott and request 40 thousand armed troops from the National Guard.

              Like

          • hooson1st says:

            We don’t know what DeeDee(s?) was told or not told. Judge Nelson is not prejudging this case. Nelson will rule on the issues before her as they develop. MOM and West will stick to the matters before the court and may not even use the word “perjury” in the court proceedings.

            Like

        • doodahdaze says:

          Without an address how do they serve her a subpoena duces tecum. Instructing her on what the defense wants her to produce at the deposition. I think there are lots of important things they need her to bring along. The state and their surrogate schemers are obstructing justice again. As usual.

          Like

        • doodahdaze says:

          She is their “Star Witness.” She is the means to the ends of the affidavit. She is the tenuous connection they have to the mens rea element of the charge. Without mens rea there can be no crime. The affidavit is defective on its face.

          Like

      • Angel says:

        “The State has never talked about, elluded to, inferred, or presented DeeDee as a 16-year-old anything. Only Crump has…. and not to the State… only to the media…. which does not matter in court.”

        This is a shame that somebody can get away with something like this. I think the parties responsible will too. Forgetting about the 16-year presented to the media, how can you get away with putting forth a witness to give a sworn statement to FDLE and then perhaps presenting a third different witness for the purpose of the defense deposing her? What would be the point of doing so and and if done, this is so obviously violating some law.

        Like

    • sundance says:

      Jordan, as an fyi this might make more sense to you now with your new insight.

      http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/22/zimmerman-hearing-video-from-itsmichaelnotmike/#comment-224001

      Prior to today – well yesterday – only D-man and myself knew of the two DeeDee’s and the specific construct of the fraud. That’s why the above commentary you noted was taking place at the time. Sorry, but until West got that motion filed with the court we could not risk the discussion of what we essentially predicted he would do.

      No, we have never talked to Don West. but we connected the same dots, just several months earlier and we were unable to show because we knew who was watching this site. In hindsight that comment (linked above) should make more sense now.

      Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        While you are correct that no one actually KNEW for sure, a lot of Treepers had figured out that there were two ‘DeeDee’s. Your comments on the thread you referenced started us to replay those tapes.

        You have probably noticed that I save some of your comments and put them back up again. We all know how sly you can be and how you sometimes talk in thought provoking tease riddles.

        Like

        • Knuckledraggingwino says:

          I strongly suspected that there were two, Double Dee Dees which is one of the reasons why I use that name.

          I would like to hear from the lawyers on this site, especially KathyCa, about how this shuck and jive about who Double Dee Dee is along with her age violates GZ’s rights. To due process and to face his accuser. Soliciting perjury to falsely indict and prosecute someone is a profound violation of legal ethics.

          The effects f this revelation are profound. Judge Nelson witheld Double Dee Dee’s address from MoM and West because she had been led by the prosecutor to believe she was and is a minor. Now that it is proven that at least one of the Double Dee Dees is an adult, Nelson will have no excuse to impede the defense’s efforts to investigate her. It can not be overemphasized that this shucknand jive over Double Dee Dees’ ages and densities will soon gave Judge Nelson royally pissed ff, even if she were in the tank for the poverty pimps, which she obviously isn’t, she is not going ton appreciate being lied to so blatantly.

          Of course I would like to see Crump, Parks, Nasty Jackson, Jellison, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Guttmann, BDLR Corey and may be Bondi and Scott suffer criminal and civil sanctions for this fraudulent prosecution. However; I am of the opinion that they should suffer consequences that go far beyond the law. I would not be averse to see them subjected to a good, old fashioned lynching, or better yet, impalements to celebrate their
          African heritage. Killing these people in such a spectacularly violent manner will put an end to these shakedowns.

          Like

          • kathyca says:

            I was writing this up in response to another post and got interrupted, so it’s not entirely apropos of yours, but here are my thoughts on the Dede situation:

            Imo, there are many questions that can be asked at the deposition which would be impossible for a “different” dede to answer correctly — even with no advance investigation by the defense. There are too many people involved; too many statements to the media; and too many details generally known to adequately prepare “deposition dede” to give bullet proof testimony if she is not one-and-the-same. The devil is in the details and the witness would not be sure which details are known and verified/verifiable by the defense and which are not. Her demeanor in response to pointed questions about seemingly irrelevant details alone will probably be a sufficient tell and I’m sure there will be a video rolling if Florida allows it. Also, the voice recordings are out there — given dede’s distinctive speech patterns, it should be very easy for a forensics expert to distinguish between two different speakers (Crump’s recording and the deposition). If it turns out that there is reasonable doubt that two different dede’s are involved, that would be evidence of insane misconduct that no amount of deniability wrt original dede’s identity could overcome. I don’t know whose head it would come down on, but there’s no way the Court could overlook or minimize it — no way. Even if only wrt to the charges against George and not for the purpose of taking down any involved individual who has insulated him or herself from full responsibility for the entire false construct.

            That is why I think the lie is about her age and not her identity. But I’m open to the possibility that such insane misconduct by Crump, in particular, is not impossible. In fact, I’m quite sure he’s capable of it. Especially since there’s no doubt that no one involved ever expected things to get this far. Either way, the defense is in the catbird seat and this will not end well for the prosecution. The only question in my mind is how badly it will end and whether/whose head(s) will roll

            Like

          • My money has been on federal investigations that leads to Parks/Crump, Natalie Jackson, Norton Bonaparte, Ben Jealous, Al Sharpton, Mayor Jeff Triplett & Ryan Julison, being indicted for violations of Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 – Conspiracy Against Rights. The same goes for Mayor Jeff Triplett, Norton Bonaparte, Bernie de la Rionda, Angela Corey, Pam Bondi, & Florida’s Governor Scott for section 242.
            Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 – Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

            Like

  14. woohoowee says:

    Thanks, SDC! Clear as a bell now :-) The hearing in which the judge wouldn’t order BDLR to provide the witness’ addresses to the defense…(learned just how bad my memory is when posting who said what to whom after that one.)

    Any idea why the judge didn’t/hasn’t just ordered BDLR to give the witness’ addresses to the defense? IIRC Lester’s order regarding privacy of witnesses wouldn’t prevent the defense from having them, BDLR’s protestations that it is for witness safety/protection not withstanding.

    Like

    • sundance says:

      Honestly, because the judge is clueless about the scheme. She told West to just ask DeeDee the address when he see’s her. Obviously, the judge did not know that West was, at that point, aware of two totally different people in the story of DeeDee.

      So she niavely asked him to just ask her when she sat down.

      knowing now, what you did not know then…. go back and watch the video of the hearing for that part…. You’ll see how different it looks now.

      Like

      • ytz4mee says:

        Also, go back and re-read Julison’s comments about the DeeDee – look how quickly he denied any knowledge or connection to, the DeeDee. No one wants to be anywhere near the DeeDee. It’s a ticking time bomb. Tick. Tick. Tick.

        A big portion of Crump’s deposition is going to be the DeeDee timeline. The 16 year old DeeDee timeline. Which doesn’t match at all with the 18 year old DeeDee produced for the benefit of probable cause.

        Like

      • ftsk420 says:

        I posted my thoughts about Dee Dee about a month or two ago. I waited till then to even listen to the tapes. Unlike a lot of people who listened right away I didn’t. I did the same thing with the 911 calls. Maybe that gave me a clearer picture but I picked up on the fact that it was two different people right away. I listened to Crumps recording last but the Guteman recording was of very good quality and it was quite easy to tell there was two Dee Dee. But proving it was totally different. To me they didn’t speak the same one sounded older which is what stuck out the most. Another flag with Dee Dee came when the prosecution said the defense doesn’t know who she is even though they told them who she was.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          Your post made me think that there may be better versions of the Crump/DeeDee tape online than the one the State and defense have. There were also e different versions .

          Like

          • ftsk420 says:

            Listen to the different versions and listen to certain words. Like how in the BDLR interview she state Trayvon said what are you following me for and Geogre said what are you doing around here. But in the other interview she says Trayvon said what are you following me FO. To me if she said it that way the first time she isn’t gonna correct her way of speaking over night and she would have said it the same way the next time. Crumps version is really bad and it’s hard to pick up on certain words that are used but Guttman copy was good. Plus just the tone in her voice is different. She keeps saying a couple minutes go by she said when he was standing at the mail thing and she said it again when TM lost Zimmerman. She also says TM said it was easier to run from the back and he was right by his dads house then she said TM lost him and TM said he was going back.

            Like

      • jordan2222 says:

        “Honestly, because the judge is clueless about the scheme.” She said that she knew virtually nothing about the case and that may be true, but she is clearly showing deference to the state and is not taking into consideration the unnecessary cost to the defense for her decisions. For example: How would the defense know what reports to ask for from the FBI investigation without reading all of them?

        Time is money. She is blinded to the states responsibilities or she is ignoring them. Hence.. my deference comment.

        I hope that West will get more “aggressive” in a respectful way. He is shrewd and sly like a fox and by now should have figured out how to deal with her and get what he needs.

        Maybe he needs to spell out why he needs the damn address if she still does not see that from a legal viewpoint but it is really common sense.

        Do you know if it is appropriate for the defense to mention expenses to a judge when a costly decision is made?

        Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        Maybe they could play “Whats My Line” with BDLR.

        Like

    • John Galt says:

      “IIRC Lester’s order regarding privacy of witnesses wouldn’t prevent the defense from having them”

      Rule 3.220 requires disclosure within 15 days of demand for discovery. Why the State has been permitted to stonewall discovery for this long escapes me.

      (A) a list of the names and addresses of all persons known to the prosecutor to have information that may be relevant to any offense charged or any defense thereto, or to any similar fact evidence to be presented at trial under section 90.404(2), Florida Statutes. The names and addresses of persons listed shall be clearly designated in the following categories:

      Like

      • sundance says:

        O’Mara/West already tried that angle – See hearing video above. Request denied.

        Next?

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Really remarkable, wasn’t it?

          Only thing I can see is Nelson doesn’t want to be overturned if there is an appeal, so is making sure that the State has nothing to complain about, so she goes way past the fence to give them everything. The only time I’ve seen such a heavy thumb on the scale for one side over the other was when the Judge felt the other side was going to prevail, so wanted to cut the whining from the losing side off at the pass early by essentially giving them even more than they asked for.

          Everytime I’ve won, the Judge took our side to the woodshed and dished out a public “scolding” before announcing the decision. The bigger the public castigation from the bench, the bigger the award/victory.

          Like

          • jordan2222 says:

            Wait.. you said; Every time I’ve won…

            I did not know that you are an attorney?

            Like

            • ytz4mee says:

              Nope, not an attorney.
              But unfortunately no stranger to the courtroom. :-)
              I have never started it, but I have always prevailed so far.
              Trust me: no matter what the claim is, in the end it always boils down to money.

              Like

              • jordan2222 says:

                You cannot go into the courtroom without spending at least a dollar..

                Like

                • ytz4mee says:

                  Don’t I know it. The cheapest I’ve had to front is a low 5 figures, but the court awards reimbursed me – eventually. In each case, they sued as a thinly veiled attempt at a shakedown, hoping I would settle. But each time I launched a vigorous defense. It is truly disheartening to see the complete lies people will tell if they think there is money in the end. And this is all just civil stuff. It wasn’t my life and freedom on the line. But the very worst of the human condition is exposed when it comes to those who use litigation as a modern day extortion scheme.

                  Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    The entire system is corrupt. Anyone can sue for any reason by simply lying. It’s criminal that people will pay up for no reason other than to make a case end. It only perpetuates the issue.

                    Like

        • John Galt says:

          Since they are clearly entitled to the information by the rules, they should have appealed.

          I would have filed the first motion to compel discovery 16 days after the demand for discovery.

          Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        So then the defense should file an immediate motion to dismiss based on a defective affidavit right? If the state can not produce DD and her information case closed.

        Like

  15. nomorebsplease says:

    Want proof? She never mentioned the three jokers in 711 and he did answer the phone before he finished his purchase but our media hid thst fact. Try finding that video again where you hear him say hello…

    It also was not the “hey sweety” hello but one of “who is this?” Imho.

    Anyway, if he did nor take her call whose call was it and for how long? Was it the three stooges or bigfoot? If not her then any account she or crump gives of him at the store is a blatant lie.

    Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      We are beating a dead horse. Any sensible person knows that she was coached for the interview. A huge identifier is her saying things that were not close to being true. Wonder if BLDR really believed the All Star game had not even started? NO ONE could believe that Bernie is not leading her on to say what he wants her to say but even his script was the false “media evidence.”

      Obviously, he knew very little of the facts which makes the charging document even more absurd. Who believes that they did a thorough investigation?

      This is still the best analysis of that interview I have seen

      http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-11-the-dee-dee-interview-kaboom/

      Like

      • ytz4mee says:

        Yes, that was an excellent piece on the BDLR interview.

        Like

      • Angel says:

        “Obviously, he knew very little of the facts which makes the charging document even more absurd. Who believes that they did a thorough investigation?”

        Obviously they did not. To have done so is have found exculpatory evidence which they would have had to give to the defense and my belief is that to get this to trial, the prosecutors are not trying to look at anything that would have prevented that.

        Little tidbit I came across researching exculpatory evidence and Brady Violations: :

        “Though it is true that the prosecution is not required to search for exculpatory evidence and must only disclose the evidence it has in its possession, custody or control.”

        No, this was going to trial and the defense is going have to do all the work to get at the truth for GZ to exonerated.

        Like

  16. nomorebsplease says:

    What i am trying to say is thst you know he is lying because it is not consistent with any future discovery. It was a rush job. Daishe twitter showed he was fos as was the wobbly cctv video as was the “smoking gun” from richard kurtz? Dont yiu get it? He did not want a trial, he wanted extortion so he had no need for facts about the three jokers or georges injuries or daishes tweets when he based dee dee on her- formally titled iadoredee if i recall correctly. That is why future discovery proves him wrong – nothing he aaid was real because for media support and extortion it never had to be…this is the same man who said trayvon was shot during nba all star game halftime game. Its all a poorly planned scam by an amateur in need if money. Make sense? It was never real…

    Like

    • ytz4mee says:

      Yes, agreed.
      The problem the Scheme Team has now is that Zimmerman didn’t cave, and they’ve left a big trail of cookie crumbs that are going to be examined and challenged.

      Since they have nothing, the only strategy left for them is to mount a last offensive, using all manner of deflection.

      West’s experience as a well regarded federal public defender means this isn’t his first time at the rodeo WRT to coverups, obstruction, manufacture of ebidence, etc. I’m sure he knows the drill.

      MOM just wanted to continue to be liked and not upset the legal apple cart there, make some money from the case and the subsequent notoriety (which would happen whether or not Zimmerman was convicted or not) and maybe get a more permanent gig as a legal analyst/commentator.

      West, on the other hand, likes to go to war, and win.

      Like

  17. jordan2222 says:

    Didn’t Sundance make a post that showed “DeeDee’s social media posts on 2/26 and maybe some other dates?

    Like

  18. david says:

    My second favorite petition on the White House website….a petition for Obama to build the Death Star https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-and-funding-and-begin-construction-death-star-2016/wlfKzFkN

    Like

  19. It is the weekend, a time for drink and metaphors:

    “The SS Crump (a ship of fools) is taking on water and sinking fast, as depicted in Cameron’s movie Titanic.”

    Like

  20. JAS says:

    I covered this whole topic with a person that takes depositions for a living and this is what I learned:

    Unless they are already a named party in the case, the person being deposed is subpoenaed. This is the job of the Sheriff’s department in the county where the person resides. So, there is always a name and address, which the attorneys always verify during the deposition. In addition, attorneys look for an ID match – driver’s license, SSN and/or birth certificate, All of this information can be gathered from the opposing attorney(s) or through the use of private investigators, Attorneys use private investigators a lot. They can have the witness investigated and know pretty much everything about them by the time they get to the depo.

    That said, rest assured that Crump et al are not stupid people. The FIRST thing that they would have done is to verify this Dee Dee person, and the SECOND thing would have been to create “plausible deniability” for themselves. There is no way that they would risk losing their license or risk going to prison, Some one at a much lower level will go under the bus in the case of fraud.

    J.

    Like

    • Angel says:

      “That said, rest assured that Crump et al are not stupid people. The FIRST thing that they would have done is to verify this Dee Dee person, and the SECOND thing would have been to create “plausible deniability” for themselves. ”

      I don’t know about the verifying DD part but I am starting to feel that GZ will be exonerated, no one who had a hand in this will be held accountable because of plausible deniability. Starting to feel nauseated at the thought of this because this is so wrong on so many levels. Like the young characters in “To Kill a Mockingbird”, I feel my innocence in the belief of our Justice to balance injustices has been shattered.

      Like

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Angel – I agree with you – I doubt there will be ANY penalty for people conducting this fraud on the Florida Justice “System”. This is from Julison on down. Crump et. al. Corey – Bernie, and their 60 “marching staff”.
        “,,,, no one who had a hand in this will be held accountable because of plausible deniability. ”
        As JAZ stated they are “smart people”, and know how to escape. This is the same as Nifong-1, with the prostitute making up totally false stories (didn’t cost her anything), and the the entire MIGHT of the Judicial System against the Duke Students. How our “Judicial System” gets this profoundly CORRUPTED is beyond me.
        You truly WOUNDER how the hell Bernie could be considered, “for TRUTH and for JUSTICE”. He is one corrupted person. Even Corey is not as bad as Bernie is. This is the case were the “minion” knows full well that what he is doing is WRONG, but loves his pay check so much, that doing an injustice to George – no longer matters to him.

        Like

        • Knuckledraggingwino. says:

          This is why freedom loving citizens should be prepared to impose extralegal sanctions on the Scheme Team if the Criminal justice system doesn’t. If Parks and Crump, Nasty Natalie Jackson, Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are not held accountable in criminal or civil court, then they should suffer sanctions in a back alley.

          The poverty pimps have been chanting the “no justice, no peace” mantra for decades. It is time that we employ similar tactics.
          ——————
          CTH commenters are expected to refrain from making threats, veiled or otherwise, against officers of the court. –Admin

          Like

        • jello333 says:

          I understand the pessimism… our “justice” system makes it easy to feel bad about things. But if you haven’t already, you should go read some of the recent comments in this thread by ytz, and the other people adding to those comments. Lays out some VERY reasonable and logical reasons why there WILL be repercussions for the conspirators. I felt good, and my confidence increased, while reading them.

          Like

    • Cupcake says:

      JAS: Good info.

      So if it is standard procedure for witnesses to be subpoenaed and for the attorneys to be able to investigate witnesses before the deposition, then why in the case of Dee Dee is the defense not able to get her address in order to investigate her prior to the deposition? And why would the judge tell West that he can just ask her address at the deposition? I just don’t understand.

      Like

      • JAS says:

        Not being an attorney I do not know all the permutations. I can only speculate. The only situation that I know of for a fact where a witness’ address is not released to the attorneys in a case is when the witness is under the protection of U.S, Marshals.

        When I read the motion I got the impression that the important thing for the defense is not the address that much, but a full, clear and verifiable audio tape of the interviews with the witness.I am under the impression that there was no court reporter present during the interviews/sworn statements so there is no legal document of said testimony, For the defense to be able to question the witness about those interviews they must have them transcribed to paper by an officer of the court. For that to happen, all persons present that asked questions and/or gave answers must be identified for the record.

        Also, if they have the real name of the witness already then a private investigator should be able to do the rest without an address.

        J.

        Like

  21. nettles18 says:

    I suspected the interview with W8 on April 2nd took place with the parents of Trayvon Martin there too. In discovery we learned that Sybrina gave her statement on April 2nd at 4:35 pm in her home. (page 40/284) and I noted the time of the statement of W8 (page 36/284) was at 6:55 pm. Discovery does not list where the interview took place with W8. Now with the motion to compel, we learn that she was in Sybrina’s home when she gave her statement. Doesn’t that contaminate witnesses if they are privy to other’s statements before giving their own?

    Like

    • Angel says:

      “In discovery we learned that Sybrina gave her statement on April 2nd at 4:35 pm in her home. (page 40/284) and I noted the time of the statement of W8 (page 36/284) was at 6:55 pm. Discovery does not list where the interview took place with W8. Now with the motion to compel, we learn that she was in Sybrina’s home when she gave her statement. Doesn’t that contaminate witnesses if they are privy to other’s statements before giving their own?”

      I guess SF had to school DD to the fact that TM was a “Mama’s boy” in the words of DD in her infamous interview with FDLE.

      Like

    • hooson1st says:

      nettles18:
      The probable contamination of W8’s testimony occurred long before April 2 and was a direct result of the refusal of TM team to make her available to authorities for that period of time.

      Whatever contamination W8 may have experienced while Sybrina’s statement was taken (if she was present in that room) was likely cumulative to what she already experienced.

      Like

  22. Somebody needs to relate the story of “DeeDee” to the reality of the situation.
    It’s been a while, but Iseem to recall that at some point she claimed that he had tried to run from Zimmerman, but could not make it home because he had almost fallen down from the sheer exhaustion. The distance from initial point of contact to the house that Martin was staying at was less than 300 yards.
    I am pretty sure any 17-year old with a history in football should be able to run 3 football field lengths without being winded to the point of collapse. Not to mention the fact that that same person should be easily able to out-distance some over-weight, middle aged dude.
    Of course when you don’t have any of the actual details of the scene (such as the distances involved), you really can’t “create” a realistic story in such a quick timefram when the sole purpose is to throw gasoline on the coals of public outrage. And when that same public is wanting to believe whatever is put before them to crucify that racist child-killer, details like what I pointed out don’t matter. Who cares that the story of the persecution makes no sense, so long as the end result is what they want it to be?

    Like

    • I mean, my old fat ass can WALK that distance in about 2.5 minutes, so why was this kid, who was supposedly in fear for his life, not able to make it to his house in the 4+ minutes that Zimmerman was on the phone with police?

      Like

      • myopiafree says:

        HI “I am TradeMark” – Actually the distance from the top of the “T” to Bradi’s, was more like 70 yards, or 210 feet. TM went around the “bend”, when GZ was JUST getting out of his truck. TM would have been at Brandi’s in about 40 seconds, before GZ got to the “T”. So DeeDee’s entire “story” is a lie – if she was even talking to TM – in the first place!!

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Yes, the whole Dee Dee(s) scenario is basically laughable. And I don’t believe she and her statements and the whole scenario is any risk to George. On the contrary, I believe they’re a risk to the prosecution and certain individuals. The “risk” being how it all helps prove conspiracy.

        Like

  23. recoverydotgod says:

    Something is “afoot”. It appears there is a state W8 protection program.

    http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/CJC3rdFlCScan20120515084012.pdf

    PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
    Aired March 27, 2012 – 21:00 ET

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/27/pmt.01.html

    BONDI: Well, what we’ve done is appoint a special prosecutor. And that’s what she’s doing. Conducting a thorough investigation because we need to get Trayvon’s girlfriend to cooperate which I don’t know if was happening previously. And they may have had good reason for that. But she’s cooperating now. And again, a thorough investigation is being done to ensure that justice is sought for that family.

    [snip]

    So apparently pressure was brought to bear so Wolfinger would step down and a special prosecutor appointed so W8 [unlisted date – Crump interview] would cooperate…apparently a figment of someone’s imagination. [It must have been hard for Atty. Wolfinger to try subpoena someone he probably didn’t have an address for as witness to a grand jury].

    [Wonder if the “no stone unturned” Pam Bondi or the “As attorney general, I have absolutely no legal authority to take the case, and I looked, I tried” Pam Bondi has come to a conclusion on the “…they may have had good reason for that”.]

    BTW, who is “they” of the “…they may have had good reason for that”

    Does Pam Bondi know who was legal counsel to W8 [unlisted date – Crump interview]?

    Who was legal counsel to W8 [4/2 – BDLR interview]?

    Like

  24. diwataman says:

    On fact that often gets missed is that a girl who claimed to be on the phone with Trayvon in those last moments voluntarily gave interviews with the media AFTER March 19th. She put herself out there at least as much as witness 18 did. She may have offered her personal information but we don’t know because the interviews she gave were HEAVILY edited. Matt Gutman has the recordings of the interviews. I also believe he has not only the entirety of what she said on March 19th but what was also said by all the people listed in the motion in the room they were all in, that is, ABC went in recording and did not stop until they left.

    Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      The defense needs both Crump and Gutman’s tapes. I am surprised they have not yet asked for Gutman’s but maybe that is part of another strategy.

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        If you haven’t seen it yet, Jeralyn at TakLeft did a piece a while back on some of this;

        http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/10/23/195459/60

        Some of the parts Matt uses from interviews with her in the weeks after March 19th are difficult to find because they are inserted in video pieces that are not focused on DeeDee. This video here is one example. It’s the video about the SPD tape but @0:58 we get to hear from one of DeeDee’s interviews, keep in mind this is March 28, nine days after her Crump interview and she’s still talking to the media;

        http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-case-video-zimmerman-16024564

        I have a list of one’s I found here;

        http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/interview-of-w8-comparison/

        One thing that get my attention was what Matt said on March 28th;

        “her number is in the phone record, which is how we got to her”

        What phone record? It can’t have come from the phone number listed in Tracy’s printout because that number is a Simple Mobile phone card that has no name directly associated with it.

        Like

        • diwataman says:

          I also wanted to add; how did Matt know on March 28th that Bernie was going to talk to DeeDee on April 2nd?

          GUTMAN: No. [Ap]parentally prosecutors plan to meet her next Monday, but that`s only because the new set of prosecutors just came in.

          Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          Damn, DMan.. this is why I try to avoid your site except for the updates you send me in email. I get sidetracked and can’t get anything else done. What an amazing job you have done in researching and choosing the right stuff to put on your site in such an organized manner. You have rare skills.

          I have not been following Jeralyn as much as I once did so maybe I should check her out once in a while. I am now anxious to read her take on the latest Motion to Compel and especially what she says about witness 8.

          DMan: Is there anything about this case that you have that the Defense doesn’t? You are a one stop shop for all of the relevant information gleaned from the TH and your other investigations.

          O’Mare should put you on his payroll, and if not, I hope he at least expresses thanks to you after the case is over.

          For quite a while, you were negative about George’s chance of regaining his freedom so please update all of us with your current position. Your less than positive view caused me to look for clues at your site that would explain your comments here in the past but I failed to find anything that made sense.

          Great job, DMan.

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            Thank you and as to your comment of my position George’s of regaining his freedom, I have said in the past and am happy to repeat that I am a cynic. I am also a pessimist. You won’t find that on my blog because I simply have not discussed much of any philosophy at all on there. I don’t go into in depth comment regarding that here because it really just would take us way off topic. Not only that but it is depressing, lol, often slipping into fatalism, defeatism, starring into the abyss, ugh, who wants that, lol.

            Don’t get me wrong though, at the end of the day there is still that little glimmer of hope that sometimes peeks through and we have managed to survive this long without annihilating ourselves so I guess that’s a little something, lol.

            Like

          • jello333 says:

            I agree with you about DMan… he’s done some amazing stuff. As for TalkLeft, I went there last night and left a comment referring to the possibility that there are at least 2 Dee Dees. I didn’t get much support for that idea, though they didn’t yell at me either. What was interesting is that both before and after I made my comment, several people were making unrelated comments about how they couldn’t understand why this-or-that about Dee Dee, and that-or-this about her and her statements just didn’t make sense. What I was thinking, but didn’t come out and say to them, was “Well, consider the multiple-DeeDee theory, and THEN see if the pieces don’t fit a little better.” I’m not worried about their current opinions, it’ll all work out. They’re mostly pretty smart people at TalkLeft, so they’ll figure it out.

            Like

        • recoverydotgod says:

          Whose phone line was used to call W8[crump interview?]. In other words what was Matt Guttman and his assistant’s recording device setup, and did they need to use their own line?

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            Were those questions to me? I just answer them as if they were, lol.

            I can’t say with absolute certainty what phone line was used at first. My guess is that at first they used the phone line from this law office;
            Farmer, Jaffe, Weissing, Edwards, Fistos & Lehrman, P.L.

            http://www.pathtojustice.com/

            From the recording itself we hear that during the interview they switch from one phone to Crumps cell phone.

            My guess is also that Crump and ABC used their own personal digital handheld recorders. So ABC was just sitting in the room with everyone while DeeDee was speaking through the speakerphone and they had their recorders out.

            Like

            • recoverydotgod says:

              Yes…smile…I was asking..I was just thinking about how Matt Guttman might have gotten W8 [crump inteview] number. So for example if he got the number from his own call history..if the call went through his recording line.

              It’s probably much simpler than that.

              Thanks for the answer.

              Like

              • diwataman says:

                He said that, “that’s how we got to her”, in a way that makes me wonder if Crump even knew about him talking to her which in turn makes me doubt Crump would have given him the number or used his phone to call DeeDee for the interview. One thing I’m thinking is that she seems to have gotten a phone in her name like she said in the April 2nd interview “it should now be under my name” with T-Mobile being the provider, “she thinks”. Which tells me that sometime between Feb 26th and whenever Matt tried to find her, she got that phone in her name and he must have did some sort of search using her name to find her number, “her number is in the phone record”.

                Like

                • recoverydotgod says:

                  Hmmmm.

                  I saw your post on comparison of W8 that has the state provided copy of the W8 Crump interview.

                  Lovely recording quality. Almost surround sound!

                  Like

            • recoverydotgod says:

              Interesting listening to the recording by the state. When they couldn’t hear W8 [crump interview], Crump decided to call her on his cell phone to clear up the phone. Someone suggested a landline…”Maybe she has a landline”. MattGuttman? That was not okay by Crump. So, Crump called her W8 [crump interview] on his phone. There should be a record of the number Crump called.

              4:15-5:15

              Like

        • MJW says:

          “her number is in the phone record, which is how we got to her”

          What phone record? It can’t have come from the phone number listed in Tracy’s printout because that number is a Simple Mobile phone card that has no name directly associated with it.

          Perhaps the old-fashioned way: he dialed the number, and when she answered, he asked for an interview.

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            That’s more than likely it, I also had on my brain that she had changed numbers by that time which I guess shows she didn’t get the new number until sometime between March 20th and April 2.

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              I know very little about cell phones but thought those numbers were never listed or published publicly. Is there a “directory” for cell phone numbers?

              Like

            • MJW says:

              Hmm, that makes me wonder. How likely is it that Guttman wouldn’t meet, or at least know the name of, the original DeeDee? If there are two DeeDees (and I’m skeptical), wouldn’t Guttman be able to confirm it immediately?

              Like

              • diwataman says:

                From the impression I got Matt never her met her, only talked to ever over the phone. But yes I would assume he knows her name. I’m sure if Matt is aware of any thing he would have reported that wouldn’t he have? Unless of course he trying to sell a very particular story. I guess he could just release the tapes he has yeah? And let us make up our own mind maybe? Instead of just of a couple of snippets he wants us to hear. Somehow though I don’t think he’ll do that now, he doesn’t strike me as an honest fellow.

                Like

  25. selfdefenseadvocate says:

    I would bet that they have asked for Guttman’s tapes. We don’t hear about what is going on until they have to have a hearing on it.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Yeah, for some reason I’ve had the same thought for awhile now. Could MOM/West have actually made contact with Guttman? “We’re gonna want you to put some things on the record eventually, but how ’bout we just have a little informal talk first?” I don’t know why, but I’ve been thinking something like that might be going on.

      Like

      • selfdefenseadvocate says:

        Guttman just might cooperate since he caused so much trouble spreading false information in his early reports.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          Does he strike you as morally principled, honest person that really researches a story to find the truth? If so, I wonder why he is not writing anything about all of the new evidence that supports George’s innocence or at least casts doubts on the stuff he has publicly present as factual that he now knows was pile of horse crap?

          Notice how excited he was when he told those lies for the world to see. He wickedly relished every one of his exclusive stories.

          Nah. no reason to cooperate. That would require repenting. Did he ever once correct any of his stories like no injuries on George after it was revealed that the footage and photos were either not originals or were doctored?

          Like

          • selfdefenseadvocate says:

            You really don’t want to know my opinion of that little jerk. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, BUT if his >>> is Grass and he knows the lawnmower is coming, he just might cooperate.

            Like

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      I bet that MoM and West already have Guttman’s tapes. Remember they are suing his network with a slam dunk case on the NENtape tamperring. The network will bend over backwards to get a 7 rather than 8 zero settlement.

      Like

  26. Angel says:

    Don’t stop believing. Hard not to sometimes. This song always gets me in the mood to keep going when its seems all for naught.

    Like

  27. nameofthepen says:

    Well, my brain is fried. I’m gonna take a break from this for the rest of the afternoon.

    One of the things I’ll try to stop thinking about is wondering why Sabrina has been in “potted plant mode” for the last 7 months about this girl (who’s supposedly been a friend of Trayvon’s since kindergarten).

    Like

  28. sundance says:

    This is a reply to selfdefenseadvocate:

    On 3/16 => 3/18 Benjamin Crump with the assistance of Al Sharpton created a fictional character to give to the media. He called her DeeDee, I call her Keyser Soze, because in essence she does not exist.

    Bear with me. There are actually three, yes, three narratives at play here.

    The First: is the biography of a person Crump used to create his character called DeeDee. Rather than create one out of thin air, he needed some attachment to Trayvon. So the needed biography was taken from an actual living breathing person in life of Trayvon Martin. The 16 year old friend from kindergarden who was on the phone with Trayvon for hundreds of minutes on the weekend of his death….. this is a real person. We outlined her on-line identity and various usernames, synonyms and pen names. However, she [the actual person] did not know that her biography was used to construct a fictional character, with a fictional name, “DeeDee” .

    The second narrative is the actual character Crump created.

    “DeeDee”, as she was introduced to the media world. But (for the love of God and sake of shere exhaustive understanding) lets call her “keyser soze”. Keyser Soze was the fictional character based on the real life biography of a person who fitted the bill for need. So Crump, and the Scheme Team, organized their thoughts, coordinated with the community who thrive on fraud and deception, and sold this 16-year-old non entity. Ryan Julison was kept out of the construction meetings which manufactured the narrative of this Keyser Soze (he has admitted as such in his correspondance). Once Keyser Soze was constructed – and a willing participant located to play the role on a phone as part of the ruse – then Julison was told to sell her. Again, the Matt Gutman “exclusive interview” was the launching pad. Julison along with the Scheme team then sold Keyser Soze to the entire media-world, using a real person with imaginary evidence, an ear-witness, as a tool to get Zimmerman arrested under false pretenses.

    Because the Keyser Soze story was not real, she, the character she is, could not, and would not be permitted to talk to authorities – because she, and the accompanying story, is phoney (phoney story just like Tawana Brawley). But eventually another person, a real life person, was needed because authorities now were stuck. They could not use a figment for an affidavit – they needed a real person.

    Enter Narrative #3

    The 18-year-old woman who was presented by Crump to FDLE on April 2nd as “DeeDee”. But this DeeDee did not match the Keyser Soze’ version of DeeDee – Hence the confusion.

    The State’s -April 2nd witness #8 DeeDee is not the same March 19th Keyser Soze DeeDee who ABC listened to, recorded and broadcast.

    Nor Did the States April 2nd DeeDee tell the same story as the March 19th Keyser Soze DeeDee who ABC listened to, recorded and broadcast.

    (My opinion: There was no-one on the phone with Trayvon at the time of his encounter with George Zimmerman – that story was a needed lie to generate the testimony that was needed for the arrest affidavit).

    We know there are two physical bodies who have been called “DeeDee”. The first was the girl on the phone, interviewed by Ben Crump with ABC’s Matt Gutman listening. No-one except the inner circle of the Scheme Team have ever laid eyes on this person.

    The second physical body is the woman who showed up with Ben Crump at Sybrina Fultons house and was interviewed by BDLR while swearing out a statement. This is the “coached” story teller “oh, you want that too”? The inner circle of the Scheme Team, along with BDLR are the only people who know what this physical body looks like.

    Like

    • myopiafree says:

      Sundance – EXCELLENT detective work! This is what I thought was true – with the police reported that the “Cell” had a dead battery.
      Sundance> “My opinion: There was no-one on the phone with Trayvon at the time of his encounter with George Zimmerman – that story was a needed lie to generate the testimony that was needed for the arrest affidavit”
      +++++
      It will take a long time for the story of the “Three D’s” will come out. But I am convinced that the Cell was dead during that last 15 minutes, and NO ONE was taking to TM.
      You are correct, Wolfinger would have won the Grand Jury, so scheme-Crump had to invent a ficitional DeeDee. How much West and O’mara have “deduced” about this DeeDee – remains an open question.
      Corey needed a DeeDee to charge 2nd degree – so Crump CREATED HER.

      Like

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Thanks for posting that sundance. I don’t have enough factual information to come to a conclusion though. (I would definitely hang a jury here).

      Here is my take on Dee Dee and Crump’s lies aboout her: I think there is only one person known as Dee Dee (a pseudonym).

      Crump obviously lied about her age to the media but he can always say he was mistaken about her age.

      The voice on all 3 of the tapes sounds like the same person to me, even the very poor quality one that Crump said he sent to FBI. She was obviously coached.

      Bernie would be shut down in a hurry if he questioned a witness in court the way he put words in Dee Dee’s mouth.

      We need the actual phone records and ping records and a real name and address for “Dee Dee” before I can come to any real conclusions about how many Dee Dees and whether she was on the dead battery heart phone with TM when he and GZ made verbal/physical contact.

      You can bet that O’Mara and West will hold their feet to the fire until all the facts are on the table.

      Thank you for all that you do. You and the D-Man rock!

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        I’m wondering how they will be able to confirm who Trayvon was talking to through the phone records being that it was a Simple Mobile number with no personal information. I would think the only way would be if she still had possession of the phone that was used. But she may not have it as she got a new account and as such perhaps a new phone. I think it’s a good possibility she may have just tossed it away somewhere in a closet or something like I have many of my old phones. But it seems to me in this situation without the actual phone she used the best they’ll have is which cell phone tower that number was pining off of.

        Like

        • selfdefenseadvocate says:

          imo, Dee Dee won’t even matter in the long run. They won’t be able to use anything that TM supposedly said to her (hearsay) and she can only testify (if it goes to trial) to what she said to him. The rest was her opinion and not important to the case. IMO, the prosecutiion only needed her so they could file the Probable Cause Affidavit. She is an important part of the defense’s strategy though and they need all the extant records. Go get ‘em MOM & Don!

          Like

          • MJW says:

            DeeDee could probably testify to much of what Martin allegedly said to her under the “spontaneous statement” hearsay exception. The exception allows the person who heard them to testify to out-of-court statements from another person describing events as they are occurring.

            Like

            • doodahdaze says:

              But is also opens her up to total investigation and impeachment. Everything relevant about her and her character is fair game. Even her ‘Gasp’ name and address and age.

              Like

            • Sharon says:

              Just a thought: as incoherent as Dee Dee was with close coaching, it seems to me that any court appearance by her would be useless in terms of content, but her existence is is still useful. She is the 2 X 4 with which the defense team will pry the cover off a septic tank that’s way overdue for pumping out.

              Like

              • jello333 says:

                Exactly what I’ve been trying to get across in all my relevant comments here: Dee Dee(s) is pretty worthless for the prosecution, but she is gonna be VERY valuable for the defense (and not just to get George off).

                Like

            • selfdefenseadvocate says:

              I am no lawyer and could very well be wrong, but I can’t see where Dee Dee’s “ear witness” account could fall under the Hearsay exceptions ??

              The 2012 Florida Statutes
              90.803 Hearsay exceptions

              http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0000-0099/0090/Sections/0090.803.html

              Like

              • MJW says:

                (1) SPONTANEOUS STATEMENT.—A spontaneous statement describing or explaining an event or condition made while the declarant was perceiving the event or condition, or immediately thereafter, except when such statement is made under circumstances that indicate its lack of trustworthiness.

                Martin was supposedly describing the events to DeeDee at the time they were occuring. The “lack of trustworthy” provision applies to the original speaker, and is primarily intended to limit the use of hearsay statements from anonymous witnesses.

                Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          If the state did not obtain her phone records.. oh well. Move on.

          Like

    • jordan2222 says:

      Unfortunately, this now sounds plausible AND accurate to me.

      I still find it incredible that BLDR would knowingly and willfully engage in such egregious criminal behavior. I will be amazed if this is not exposed to the general public and if he is not punished.

      I would also think that criminal defense lawyers around our state would unite and launch their own investigation if he is not disbarred or faces no criminal charges.

      You said:
      (My opinion: There was no-one on the phone with Trayvon at the time of his encounter with George Zimmerman – that story was a needed lie to generate the testimony that was needed for the arrest affidavit).

      Without accurate phone records, we cannot know for sure but at what time, do you think their conversation ended and/or was that when the battery died? In the absence of records or ping logs, is there a scientific way to determine when the phone went dead?

      Like

      • Sharon says:

        “…..exposed to the general public and if he is not punished”… two entirely different issues, unfortunately.

        This whole mess swirls around the fact that those who depend on deception to retain power and influence are always able to obtain an audience willing to be deceived. So the potential impact of the general public becoming informed will be determined by what percentage of the general public are no longer willing to be deceived (or ignorant).

        It’s a fact that those who are willing to be deceived at one point in an event or one point on the calendar may at another point and time move to the group not willing to be deceived. It remains to be seen, I think, whether the number of those unwilling to be deceived is growing.

        This is applicable to the dynamics of many current events………………..which group is still growing: the group that is willing to be deceived? or the group that is not willing to be deceived?

        Like

      • sundance says:

        Whenever he put the ear buds in his pocket.

        Like

        • jordan2222 says:

          DUH!!! Dummy me. I am now “guessing” that is when he decided to assault George. That makes sense but what time was it?

          Like

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            Don’t cell phones normally record the duration of calls *to the second*? Would this not allow for a more precise estimation of the time at the end of the call, even if the start time is rounded off to the minute in which the call originated? Once again, the importance of access to the actual phone raises its ugly head…

            Like

            • jordan2222 says:

              I do not know for sure if the defense has the phone records or the ping logs much less the phone.

              Like

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                Perhaps I am *assuming* too much, but since the phone was taken into evidence on 2/26, it would remain in the evidence locker with all of the other items found at the scene. Certainly it can be accessed, whether or not Tracy Martin provides the PIN for his account. I can’t understand WHY O’Mara or West haven’t taken steps to gain legal access to the contents of that phone.

                Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  We really do not know for certain what O’Mara has received.

                  This subject has been discussed and debated ad nauseam here. If you will direct your full questions to either Dman or waltherppk, they will be able to give the most current and complete answers. Some here think that Martin might have used two phones. The phone issue hurts my head.

                  Like

                • diwataman says:

                  According to the Property and Evidence Chain of Custody(41-47/284) all of the evidence, including the cell phone, was moved out of the SPD and into the FDLE where it apparently remains to this day. The phone can be accessed but it will depend on the method that was used to lock it that will determine the route O’Mara must take. If it’s PIN or Password locked they can subpoena T-Mobile. If it’s Pattern Locked they would have to subpoena Google.

                  It’s surprising to me the State did not that. Did they not think that Trayvon may have taken a video, photo or audio of anything that night? Even Serino pretended like Trayvon did so I’m sure some investigator somewhere would have told Corey to get what’s needed to get in the phone. Apparently she wasn’t interested in doing an actual investigation.

                  At this point I have no idea what O’Mara is doing. He moves like molasses. I’m sure at some point he’ll get to asking the court for the proper subpoena to access the phone.

                  Like

                  • jello333 says:

                    “It’s surprising to me the State did not that. Did they not think that Trayvon may have taken a video, photo or audio of anything that night? Even Serino pretended like Trayvon did so I’m sure some investigator somewhere would have told Corey to get what’s needed to get in the phone.”

                    Yes, very surprising… UNTIL… until you consider the possibility that they already KNOW what they’ll find. And they know that will destroy their whole case.

                    Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        There is already a move afoot to investigate the state use of perjury charges. Only against defense witnesses.

        Like

    • nameofthepen says:

      Sundance, lol. I feel like I belong on the short bus sometimes. :D

      OK. So, far, is this the current working theory?:

      1. “DeeDee #1″ is a real person, who is a minor, who did know Trayvon, and who had lots of social media presence on the internet, but had/has nothing to do with any of this, never knew she was the victim of “identity theft”.

      2. Using #1 (without her knowledge) as the general template, the mythical “DeeDee#2″ (Keyser Soze), was crafted, “#2″ then participated in a recorded phone interview with Crump, with Gutman listening in, and then vanished.

      3. “DeeDee#3″ was later mocked-up, by finding and coaching some 18-year-old girl, and giving her to BDLR to interview.

      _________

      (Some musing)

      A. I still need to figure out which “DeeDee” West and MOM want to subpoena.

      B. Since I’m not for sure what is meant by “the inner circle of the Scheme Team”, is it possible Tracy and Sabrina were also “Crumped” by this deception, just like we were? In the beginning, at least?

      Like

  29. art tart says:

    The problem as I see it for the Handler’s of Sybrina and Tracey is that DeeDee’s phone number is going to be on the bill Tracy Martin has waved in the Media Blitz. Surely MOM/West are going to run down the number that is supposedly DeeDee’s and see to whom that number belongs, and who pays DeeDee’s phone bill, its unlikely she pays it.

    Supposedly Trayvon/DeeDee talked for 700 minutes, the person that owns that phone is going to be DeeDee.

    Like

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