Inside The HPSCI Memo – A Key Distinction Being Conflated “Title I” -vs- “Title VII”…

There is a key distinction being overlooked, perhaps conflated, by many who are reviewing the recently released HPSCI memo as it relates to the outlined targeting of U.S. individual Carter Page.

In the HPSCI outline it specifically notes the targeting of U.S. individual Carter Page was NOT a FISA Title VII search request.  Title VII is FISA(702), the incidental collection of U.S. person information as it relates to National Security or Counterintelligence operations targeting foreign individuals.

The FISA ‘warrant’ request, against Carter Page, was made October 21st, 2016, under Title I of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.  Meaning the surveillance application was specifically stating, to the court, the U.S. individual was likely an actual agent of a foreign government, ie. “a spy.

The DOJ (National Security Division) and the FBI (Counterintelligence Division) were not asking to review ancillary data collected on U.S. Person Carter Page as an outcome of surveillance on a foreign person, or foreign agent; that would be Title 7 (FISA-702).

In action outlined within the HPSCI memo, the DOJ and FBI were specifically telling the FISA court they had evidence that U.S. Person Carter Page was working as an agent of a foreign government. He was their target, and therefore requesting direct FISA Title 1 surveillance of that target on October 21st, 2016.

To give validity to the underlying position of the DOJ and FBI, the justice department used: the Clinton-Steele Dossier; media reports from -and of- the Clinton-Steele dossier; and opposition research provided by Clinton financed Fusion-GPS through Nellie Ohr, so they could monitor U.S. Person Carter Page.

In total, this sketchy assembly of political campaign research was used by the FBI as evidence to back-up their claim U.S. person Carter Page was working as a foreign agent; essentially saying: he was a spy.  This application assembly was then certified on four different occasions by specific officials within the DOJ and FBI.

Without knowing the court had been provided political research, the FISA Court granted the FBI full surveillance authority for U.S. Person Carter Page.   The distinction is rather stark.

The FBI were not targeting Page incidentally as an outcome of foreign intelligence collection; the FBI was targeting Carter Page directly. AND as such they carried full surveillance authority upon all of this activities, interactions, communications and contacts therein.

Because of this direct approach, any group, organization or entity who came in contact with U.S. Person Carter Page was then open for ancillary review and FBI investigation.  Those who engaged in contact with Carter Page became subject to surveillance and searches in the same manner as if Page was an actual foreign agent.

Legal commentary thread on #Memo by Robert Barnes:

It is important to remember that FISA courts are not like other courts; there needs to be specific evidence of a particular national security threat to circumvent regular federal courts.

It is a HIGHER standard because its jurisdiction is LIMITED
FISA courts have LIMITED jurisdiction because the scope of the invasive tools of the NSA is far more INVASIVE than regular wiretaps, due to the SECRET nature of such courts, and from the risk of forum shopping with the limited number and deferential nature of FISA Judges.

That is why Congress imposed SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS on access to FISA courts and use of FISA evidence. To access FISA courts, only the highest ranking FBI officials must vet and approve, a high ranking DOJ official must authorize, and they must re-vet and re-approve every 90 days.

To spy on Americans through a FISA court, the FBI must show the target is an “agent of a foreign power,” not merely in contact with a foreign power. The law makes it difficult to show someone is an “agent of a foreign power” to make sure it is not misused to spy on Americans.

The law does not allow the FBI to call an American an “agent of a foreign power” unless they can show the person “knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of a foreign power” AND the nature of their activity is criminalized.

Claiming someone is an “agent of a foreign power” is a difficult standard to ever show, and should never happen to a domestic political opponent in a domestic political campaign. That is why the FBI had to cook the books — put a bogus informant on their team & lie to the courts.

Trump’s winning caused a problem for Comey & Comey’s firing caused a problem for Rosenstein. Both Comey & Rosenstein signed off on the bogus affidavits to the FISA court to continue spying on Trump team members post-election and post-inauguration. They needed Mueller to cover up.

Key fact about Mueller: he is very close friends with Comey, and was the mentor and close friend of Rosenstein. Mueller is also expert at covering up for lawless law enforcement: see his role with Whitey Bulger, BCCI, HSBC, Waco, Noriega, IRS/Tea Party & Fast & Furious.

FISA law protects Americans from lawless spying by masking & deletion of intercepted data. If an American’s conversations are intercepted, his identity must remain hidden, and if no p/c of a crime, his conversations deleted. Hence, the importance of @Cernovich Susan Rice story.

FBI turned over their NSA spying capacity to a private lobbying company in order to promote a smear campaign against a domestic political opponent. Fearing being caught, they appointed a special counsel (Mueller) to cover for them by accusing the man (Trump) who might expose them (link)

Here’s the HPSCI Point and Counterpoint as released earlier:


This entry was posted in AG Jeff Sessions, CIA, Clinton(s), Cold Anger, Conspiracy ?, Deep State, Dem Hypocrisy, Dept Of Justice, Desperately Seeking Hillary, Donald Trump, Donald Trump Transition, FBI, Jeff Sessions, media bias, Notorious Liars, NSA, President Trump, Russia, Spying, THE BIG UGLY, Typical Prog Behavior, Uncategorized, USA, White House Coverup. Bookmark the permalink.

947 Responses to Inside The HPSCI Memo – A Key Distinction Being Conflated “Title I” -vs- “Title VII”…

  1. LibertyONE says:

    After reading most , if not all, the comments posted I can honestly say that I am VERY impressed with poster’ s using logic, common sense & reasoning in an attempt to connect the dot’s. That said , we ALL know the CABAL had the movtive, means & opportunities to commit their crimes. There is certainly enough evidence to impanel a GJ and subpoea ALL of these individuals to testify. HOWEVER, certain targets have to be SQUEEZED ( i.e. your facing any where between 5-20 yrs NO PAROLE). . All you need is miminally 2 to flip and the House of Cards crumbles. Lastly, it’s the OIG Report & the actual CONTENTS of the FISA applications that WILL reveal most , if not all, of the dots….connected!

    Liked by 7 people

  2. Craig D says:

    It seems to me that the media is the real enemy. The media hates The President and will never give him (Trump) credit for anything (if Trump cured cancer, the crooked media would say The President is taking jobs away from medical doctors). The coup has been exposed and will eventually (in years) will be somewhat rectified. This will be too late to help the President. The only way Trump can make inroads against the crooked media is to have the Republicans all totally on The Presidents side. That is not happening, because the Republicans are full fledged members of the UniParty and all that it entails. Without Republican support, Trump can only try and live to survive another day. I see no end game for The President. Sad, and very sad for the entire country, but we must be realistic and see the situation for what it is.

    Liked by 2 people

    • You go cry in your beer Craig, leave the work to the adults

      Liked by 7 people

    • Southpaw says:

      Are you proposing a successful Shay’s Rebellion?


    • Chickficshun says:

      Craig I don’t agree with a lot of what you said. I have to assume you’re either terribly angry or feeling hopeless. I’m mostly angry and want some sh$t busted up. I do agree that the media is the enemy and millions of us should band together and take a financial ball bat to their collective knees. So do your part, cut the cable.

      Liked by 5 people

    • AKM says:

      Craig, I would say the position of many GOPers is different now than it was last year, when many really did not know how to react for self-preservation. With the tax bill success, the Russia Russia narrative collapsing, and with the GOP memo / investigations showing how corrupt the Obama admin / FBI / DoJ are, the President’s position is hugely better now than it was previously. His successful exposure of the media as biased and corrupt is on-going. Everyone belittling the memo now (CNN, MSNBC, BBC, Guardian, Politico, the Hill, WAPO, Bernstein, McCain, Comey) will soon have major egg on their face when Grassley and Goodlatte manouevres come into play.

      Liked by 6 people

    • zucccchini says:

      Never give up. There are 34 GOP seats coming up for grabs. Only 16 Democrat seats.
      Those people are not retiring just because their chairmanships are expiring. Trump is doing more than we can see. He is cutting off the spigots to many lobbyist to lawmakers by little tweeks here and there. They are leaving because of A LOT of reasons. Those state districts losing the old fogie incumbants need to find and promote filling those seats with conservative Trumpsters! Join your local Republican Chapter and see who is throwing their hat in the ring. Promote the Trumpsters!!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Mike van says:

      Whith all the evidence of collusion between the Justice dpt. The fbi the msm. Is there no one in media today thats hungry? This is a career maker! Just follow the dots!


    • Craig, you make a good point, but only if some things don’t change. It is quite likely that either various media entities will change, or new ones will appear. This happens all of the time with businesses. The media is simply another type of business.

      As for republicans, it looks like the Uniparty republicans are starting to be in disfavor. Even some of the democrats are showing signs of wanting to work with Our President. I think 2018 could be a very interesting election year.

      Realistically, I think there is room for optimism. The country is starting to come together. People are starting to see themselves as American citizens first and foremost. That hasn’t happened in a long time.


    • DrNo76 says:

      But I think you miss some salient points. Trump weilds enormous politicala nd administrative power even with the media against him and a less than unified R party behind him. I thnk when push comes to shove there would only be a few outliers (the McCain/Flake wing). I think the memo revelations now made public will over some time solidify the party behind him. This is the sticking point. I dont think many R will stand by and allow the opposing party to weaponize the DOJ and FBI against any elected R official, much less a President with an R beside his name. The stakes could not be higher. I think they realize that D heads must roll at a high level, certainly through the DAG level and the FBI counterpart, perhaps not all the way to Lynch and Obama. But make no mistake, the FISA application has to have Lynch’s signature on it. And those signatures at every level of the DOJ are in the can evidence of crimes now. Comey and McCabe have given them that. McCabe’s 12/17 testimony that no FISA warrant could have been attempted w/o the dossier is self conviction. Comey’s testimony as well since he signed off on it. Plus Trump controls decisions on declassification. If push comes to shove he makes a national address to state his reasons for declassifying the Clinton Campaign/Fusion/Steele affair to show the public the level and significance of the criminality of our public organs of justice and policing at the federal level.

      The one thing that I wonder about is whether Trumps folks and the AG have been working behind the scenes to put an investigation in place already. If they havent, they’d better get to it pronto. Mueller should be treated as a dead man walking in terms of getting any face time with Trump. The other big question is Rosenstein. His signiture is on, I think, at least one renewal of the Fisa application. He has a problem. Sessions should be squeezing him. The public Memo now opens the door for Sessions to himself, if need be, initiate a DOJ investigation of all of them (or appoint a SC) and that would not be about the email scandal. He’s free to act on criminality within the DOJ respecting the Fisa wrongs. It presents an opportunity for Rosenstein to save himself by taking out Mueller. Rosenstein claims to have been unaware of the dossier origins. And he would have never approved it had he known. A perilous course for him, but the cats’ out of the bag now.


  3. anthohmy says:

    I’m still rooting for him.


  4. thinkthinkthink says:

    The key here is staying on top of the details just enough to be able to plant questions into the hearts of people we talk to in our daily business around town. Maybe won’t be able to have a conversation with people close to us that are in the TDS realm. But looking for a way to drop a little truth question when standing in line at the store.

    “Hmmm, do you think they really used NSA spying to target people that didn’t agree with them?”
    Every one of us can use the steady release of news to do this.

    Check out point #7 here…

    Liked by 4 people

  5. Spear says:

    What about the counter that trump team was already under surveillance because papadop?


    • Matthew LeBlanc says:

      Has Papa the Greek been sentenced yet? I got hunch he won’t be until after the midterms and by that I mean he never will actually be sentenced. I’m convinced be was a mole.


    • Leane Kamari says:

      papadop might have been the secret implant from the CIA/FBI

      Liked by 1 person

    • candofeminist says:

      Clinton supporters in the Obama administration had been using 702 queries since 2015 to spy on ALL presidential candidates and their campaigns. Admiral Rogers NSA Director put an end to that in October 2016 hence the pivot to a FISA warrant.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. anthohmy says:

    (It IS her day after all.)


  7. fred5678 says:

    Even though I have hung out here and occasionally commented for a few years, and regularly read almost very new SD post here, so I am much more up to speed than the average John Q Public,
    I know know what DRINKING FROM A FIRE HOSE feels like.

    This Title I vs. Title VII article is very illuminating — which is why we are all here!
    And an item NEVER explained on TV tonight.

    A few minor observations:

    Chris Wallace proved with certainty today he is a deep state/democrat/liberal flack when his first comment today about the memo was: “The memo is not 4 pages;it is only 3 1/3 pages”. As if a monumental scandal could only be true if a FULL 4 PAGES were written.

    Eric Swalwell (D-CA) has been appointed as the designated press flack for HPSCI Democrats. He could only filibuster after he accused Tucker of treason tonight. Swalwell is a genuine “campus organizer”, as Obama was a community organizer. His Wiki page his both voluminous and flowery, as if he has the Macedonian content farmers at work 24/7 to fluff it up.

    Liked by 1 person

    • fred5678 says:

      I now know ..


    • Flight93Gal says:

      Fred5678, Swalwell’s parting words to Tucka (after his accusation that Tucka was “endangering national security”) was “you do not release evidence of a crime to the criminals during an ongoing investigation”. After that statement, Swalwell adds (paraphrasing) “the criminals are the President and McGhan”… Did anyone catch this? While we all suspected that Mueller was moving toward an Obstruction charge against PDJT, Swalwell confirms next phase of DIM strategy on Tucka. No revelation here but cannot wait for Grassley, Goodlatte and IG batting order to conclude so DIMS can be permanently shut down.


  8. Sunshine says:

    PLEASE, listen to this U.S. Ambassador.

    Liked by 8 people

  9. Good explanation. So basically it would seem, anyone associated with Page could have been spied on, right?


    • Gill, the short answer as I understand after reading this very informative post is Yes.
      The long answer —
      Gill, No … anyone who will say even “Hi Page” or smile at Page or if the FBI is in a mood then if you look at Page or pass by him on the street while you may be busy texting in your phone and you may not be even aware that you just pass by Page …. —> you are subject to FBI surveillance.
      I hope I did not exaggerate I my long answer but I believe that is what exactly FBI / DOJ did in this case.


      • Blacksmith8 says:

        Gill there are small typos in your question. it’s far from basic. Everyone in contact by any means with Mr. Carter Page WAS spied on with the full spectrum of data collection available to the NSA. The losers who were running the former-vanity-of-investigation turned access of the data over to a private contractor.

        NewAmerican, I was half way through typing when I read yours and I agree with you. Top it off, try this exercise. Carter Page has a college yearbook at his house. It got scanned. Every photo, name, hand written note and event gets data mined for interaction.

        Oh wait does Carter Page have a cell phone, well we need to go through ALL of his contacts, call and message history. Of course we cataloged his email on day 1.

        Even though I know how this goes, it disgusts me like I want them hung by their thumbs until they are DRY.

        Anybody know where I can get cheaper replacement tin foil for my hat? This one is getting a little warm.


    • Leane Kamari says:

      yep, that`s where the unmasking kicks in, everyone who caame in contact with Page was unmasked!


  10. Rynn69 says:

    Today is a dark day in democracy as the Evil Empire triumphs over what is good, true, and just – a theory. All logic points to the fact the “unedited memo” released was not the memo compiled by the House Intel Committee Chairman IN ITS ENTIRETY. Go with me on this. The House Intel Committee members and Congressman who read it called it “Earth shattering”, “shocking to the conscience”, “people will go to jail”, etc. We all heard what was said. The Evil Empire was is a tizzy…working overtime to compile false narratives, discredit the report, and imply it would be a grave concern. It was obvious to every American watching who was fearful of the truth. What came out does not match up to this – no way. The memo does not match up with the scope of this cabal which we know is broad – it is limited to a select few. I THINK A DEAL WAS MADE. Hang with me on this. We know truth and justice are no longer tenets of these agencies. We know this for a FACT. How do we know? Because those individuals who committed undisputable alleged crimes – Clinton (trafficking in classified intel, pay-to-play, destruction of devices, obstruction), Comey (leaking information to prompt a special counsel to go after an innocent man – the President, allowing destruction of evidence, exonerating a person before completing an investigation), Strozk and Page (emailing about leaking, insurance policies, secret societies, destroying electronic devices, hiding electronic communications), Rosenstein (allowing an unconstitutional investigation with no scope whatsoever to commence on a sitting President with ZERO evidence of any crime, etc.) are still employed and not brought to justice. Meanwhile, an innocent person (Michael Flynn) is indicted. Keep with me: This is what I suspect the deal was. 1)Wrongdoers within the involved agencies would not be punished, charged or fired in exchange for – 1) Mueller would only indict Manafort & Gates which he would be able to for UNRELATED financial crimes; 2) Mueller would drop charges on Flynn (fruit of the poisonous tree; 3) AG Sessions would agree to keep Rosenstein at Justice and publicly tout his “integrity” – note this happened today; 4) Mueller will close the “Russia investigation” farce; 5) the “memo” would be released to satisfy the masses, but would be focused and limited from the actual scope of all that was done. Is anyone suspicious of the meeting with WH Chief of Staff and 5 FBI reps? Was our President threatened? Why did Trey Gowdy resign? White hats are leaving, black hats are remaining. Remember, as the saying goes a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. This is a very bad sign for our country. Thoughts to all?


    • David A says:

      Needs paragraphs please.

      Liked by 4 people

    • TPW says:

      One point you made I definitely do not agree with…..Trey Gowdy is not a white hat…..I think he was offered a deal he could not refuse in order to not be taken down with the other corruptocrats. Yes and I to find it suspicious that this memo was not what was promised. Don’t know if I would go as far as to say they have the President on anything….yet……must wait for the IG report and FISA application info to surface then we will have a clearer picture as to whether a deal was made or not.


    • gda says:

      This was the FISA phase. Only. Next is Phase 2, 3, 4, 5………..

      If you don’t think this was massive blow you’re not paying attention. But even so it was, in context, just a initial jab to the jaw. The body blows and the knockout punch are already programmed in and cannot be deprogrammed by the opposition.

      Be of good cheer!

      Liked by 1 person

    • ltravisjr says:

      Part of it is that we have been aware and digesting this for so long that us hearing what we already know feels anticlimactic. Even what we have learned is earth shattering on its face. Spin and denial will be expected from those who hear the details in the memo just now, considering most citizens who hear it probably don’t even know the names of the personalities…much less how they are related…much less how the structure of high government works (I didn’t)…much less even what the laws are. The media democrats, establishment, and deep state sympathizers may be more aware of the truth, but will certainly leverage the ignorance of the public to cloud the stark reality. I am guessing the wheels of process and justice must just turn at their own deliberate speed, as much as we would like a satisfying Clancy novel type ending.


    • lokiscout says:

      It’s original!


    • neal s says:

      Considering how much the MSM and demonrats are trying to marginalize this memo, makes me think that it really IS important. (If you are getting flak, then there is a good chance you are over the target) For those who have been hanging out here for some time, it does seem anticlimactic. But for much of the public, it is all something very new.

      This is just a very early step. There will be many more steps and many more revelations. Eventually, it should be obvious to all but the most brain dead leftists, that this great nation has been under attack from within by deep state and by leftists.

      When you have been lied to regularly much if not all of your life, it can be difficult to finally see truth when it is revealed to you. But it is like some of those optical illusions … the two faces or a vase, the old hag or the beautiful girl. Initially you only see the one thing. But eventually when it is pointed out enough, you might see the other thing. And once you have finally seen the other thing, then you will always be able to see it whenever you look. You will then wonder how you ever didn’t see it before.


    • Jenni says:

      I DIAGREE:
      1. P/Trump 100% knows that if he doesn’t have Grand Jury Investigations, Indictment and Jail time; his MAGA would all be for nothing. Evil/Globalist/Clintons and the New World Order will wait 8 years to destroy the Constitution and the United States. (PTrump Snake Story)
      2. P/Trump knows he is holding an Unbeatable Poker hand and he knows if he doesn’t use the Criminal Code to Win this Civil War he should not have wasted his time to be President. History will remember PTrump of not playing his Unbeatable Poker Hand to save the Constitution and the United States.
      3. PTrump knows if he Destroys the Criminals proven by an identifiable paper/digital trail beyond any reasonable doubt; showing Treason/Subversion/Espionage/Conspiracy/Racketeering etc..He will gain 30 million new voters.

      This is a Civil Legal War and there will be only one Winner. The loser of this Civil War will vanish FOREVER.


      • Amy says:

        Could have you ever imagined a person (P/T) appear at the right moment in History 2-years ago; to stop the Globalist/Elitist/Democrats/Clintons/Swamp/Media and Some percentage of Republicans from destroying the Rule of Law, Constitution and the United States. P/Trump’s plan from the beginning was to Restore the Rule of Law…and what a better way to drain the Swamp.


        • Jenni says:

          Obama, Clintons, Globalist, Elitist and the Media also divided the Country.

          Obama divided the country forever for about 25% of voters. The 30% that were brain washed by the media’s fake news/laws will become P/T voters when they see the Justice for all the Alleged Criminal Acts for the past 8 years. (30 million additional voters for P/T).

          IMO P/Trump base is up 10 million today for a total of 73 million voter base. Add 20 million voters when all the Alleged Criminal Acts have been accounted for will bring P/Trump votes to 93 million. The 45 million voters who had an ax to grind are gone forever; thanks to Obama, Media and Hillary etc. 2020 Election P/T 93 Million votes to the Democrat challenger 45 Million.
          P/Trump knows Indictments has to happen…


          • Jenni says:

            If I remember correctly; Newt Gingrich stated there will be only 1-Winner and the loser will be destroyed forever.

            P/Trump planned to clean up the FBI and DOJ while running for President.

            IMO; P/Trump would destroy himself if he didn’t use his Presidential Authority to ensure indictments.

            Snake Story was told repeatedly…who wouldn’t use an unbeatable Poker hand to chop off the snakes head forever.


  11. jello333 says:

    Can’t remember who it was now, but awhile back someone who we thought was a White Hat explicitly said (paraphrasing) that he saw no violations or abuse of 702 of FISA. Many of us were like “Huh? There was obviously abuse.” But maybe not. If I’m understanding Sundance’s explanation, the abuse that occurred was more likely NOT of 702… but of Title I. Makes sense. Hmm… have there been any public comments about abuse of THAT part of FISA?

    Liked by 1 person

    • lokiscout says:

      Us Treepers are probably the only ones who now know the difference between a Title 1 and a 702 thanks to SD.
      I can just see Hannity, Carlson, Lora or one of the other Blond FOXes trying to explain it without getting wrapped up in their shorts!

      Liked by 1 person

  12. jello333 says:

    I really like the “Charge and Response” document. Nice little point-by-point outline that can be used to counter any of the idiotic claims being thrown around about the memo.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. sammyhains says:

    This could be potentially important:
    It seems the FBI had Carter Page under FISA surveillance in 2013, because they thought the Russians were trying to recruit him. They warned him about it, and from all indications, stopped surveillance. FISA must be renewed every 90 days, and it is almost certain that the FISA lapsed, likely for years.

    But then in 2016, the FBI resurrected the Carter Page FISA. It appears that the bar is lower for renewal, which the FBI took advantage of, despite the extended lapse. This loophole is likely WHY Carter Page was targeted.

    But here’s the catch: Robert Mueller was FBI Director until September 4, 2013.
    So he likely signed original FISA application for Carter Page, which would be a clear conflict of interest for him now to be running a special counsel investigation based on that FISA.

    Liked by 1 person

    • TPW says:

      “conflict of interest” LMBO…….conflict number …..1…2…3…4…or …5…..Carter Page was a way into spying on Trump and company…..would like to know what false info was provided to FISA court to say Carter Page was a spy……

      Liked by 1 person

      • lokiscout says:

        “Carter Page was a way into spying on Trump and company” Well two of us have been paying attention! AND (sorry) please note that Page was being surveilled under a Title 1 Warrant not a 702 Authorization.
        Remember SD raised the question whether a 702 request had ever been authorized a couple weeks ago.


  14. Aqua says:

    So the FBI and the US Department of Justice, using the full force and credibility of each of those departments, testified in a court of law, multiple times, that Carter Page was a spy against this nation? And the officials knew they used false evidence to make this case?

    How much more evidence does the left need?

    I am just stunned. Give me a gavel. If the same rules apply to all Americans, then with far less evidence than these crooks put forth, I can pose as a judge and put these crooks away for life.


  15. CK Byrne says:

    Let’s take this one step further.
    Let’s say, for sake of argument, the Hillary allies in the FBI saw this as a go-to end-around to spy on the political opposition. They don’t need to spy on Trump, exactly, they just need to get a “Title 1” subject in the same room with him/his associates/family members. Then (because ASSOCIATES of a Title 1 subject are fair game) they can wiretap/surveil ANYONE on the campaign.
    Let’s say there’s a known Russian operative who was denied a visa and can’t get into the United States because she is on parole. With connections in the State Dept, you get her a “waiver” and get her into the States. You then set up a meeting with them voila’! You have all you need to tap the entire campaign!
    [QUOTE from]
    Lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya was first denied a visa in 2015 but was then allowed a special “parole” in September 2015 to provide advice — not legal services — during a trial over alleged money laundering by a Russian executive, Denis Katsyv and his company, Prevezon.

    Her unusual parole was extended until February 2016, and she subsequently got a temporary business visa from former President Barack Obama’s deputies in June 2016 despite the first denial.
    The eventual 20- to 30- minute meeting in June 2016 with Donald Trump Jr. was intended by Veselnitskaya to persuade Donald Trump to kill off the Magnitsky Act if he were to be elected president, according to the Washington Post. The meeting was arranged by a music-industry lawyer, Rob Goldstone, who has at least one Russian client…….. [UNQUOTE]

    Liked by 2 people

  16. lettruthspeak says:

    I just don’t believe the FISA court had no clue what was going on here. The corruption is everywhere, it runs far and deep, and I think it is a mistake to think somehow that court isn’t full of corruption. For crying out loud these crooks had to come back on 3 separate occasions to get what they wanted. Are we supposed to believe that didn’t raise any suspicions? This country is run by lying, thieving, gutless weasels, and they occupy just about every nook and cranny available. The crime syndicate made sure of it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jake Muleman III says:

      You are so correct in your analysis of the annelids we have running this country. I’m not
      referring to Pres. Trump as much as I am the long term politicians that stay and stay, and do their best to cause turmoil at every turn.. That’s why I have founded “Rescue America”
      which will be run solely by the U.S. citizens, not any politicians,


  17. Truth seeker says:

    Is it not hugely important that, if this is the FISA that gave them authority to also spy on Trump campaign, it was approved AFTER he left Trump campaign? Is the memo telling us that this FISA was the Obama team’s excuse for surveilling Trump after they got caught? It seems the date of FISA approval is the key here.


    • Leane Kamari says:

      from what I have learnt: this FISA section 1 application permits forward sying as well as backward meaning all communications, emails, text messages…everything preceeding the FISA approval i.e. going for example all the way back to 2013 and onwards even to post DJT election and inauguration in 2017 . You get it now?


  18. Hotlanta Mike says:


    • Mr. Morris says:

      So after the glorious Al Smith Dinner (10/20/16), the very next day (10/21/16) the Obama Administration went to the FISA Court because they determined that Carter Page was a spy.
      So the Obama Administration went to the FISA Court to get (Title 1) permission to spy on Carter Page (and anyone he came in contact with). The Obama people involved in this FISA Title 1 request were FBI Director James Comey or his Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, and Attorney General Loretta Lynch or Her Deputy Sally Yates.
      It is important we all see the documents that support this FISA Title 1 request, and the FISA Court Judge who approved the spying request.
      We deserve transparency.


  19. Campesino says:

    Just to extend what CKByrne was saying above, Carter Page served as the Trojan Horse to give cover to active surveillance of Trump late in the election and then extended through the transition.

    The Title I warrant would have given them authority to spy on Trump even though Page hadn’t been with the campaign since September 2016 and was never part of the transition. If you swallow the dossier it claims Page was the go-between who cut the deal with Rosneft for the payoff to Trump. Therefore it would make perfect sense to keep tabs on Trump and his team just to make sure (wink wink) the FBI was on top of things when the deal went down.

    So Comey et al. kept this charade up through the transition and he and later Rosenstein used it to spy on their boss and his family and associates. After Mueller was brought on board, the calculation was they didn’t need it any more and dropped it. Mueller has a grand jury for subpoenas and heaven only knows how many FISA warrants he has had initiated.

    The tells in this are Carter Page and the DOJ’s attitude to him.

    A June 2017 article in the Washington Post says the FBI questioned him in March 2017

    We now know he was under the Title I FISA warrant at that time. Also look at the byline on the story – Devlin Barrett – the favorite reporter that our friends Strzok and Page liked to leak stories to. This is also about the time they got kicked off the Mueller team.

    These March interviews appear to be Page’s only real interaction with the FBI. I suppose we could look at the dates and see if they are around the time of one of the FISA Court reapprovals of the warrant on Page. Maybe they thought they needed to show activity in their “investigation” of Page to convince the Court to reapprove the warrant. What would you want to bet that Peter Strzok ran the interviews?

    The March interviews were before Mueller came on board. It does not appear that Mueller has shown any interest in Page and he does not appear to have been interviewed by the Mueller team.

    So here is Carter Page, the man whom the DOJ/FBI told the FISA Court was almost certainly a foreign spy with a very high likelihood of committing crimes against the United States. He’s kept under “surveillance” for almost a year. He is questioned in some interviews in the middle of the period when he is under the surveillance warrant and then they are simply not renewed.

    This “dangerous foreign spy” walks a free man today, not charged with anything. The Mueller Russia investigation could care less about him and can’t be troubled to talk to him.

    Carter Page served his purpose as legal cover to do surveillance on Trump and company. He was playing a role in the infamous “insurance policy.” When Mueller comes on board and gets going it’s judged Page isn’t needed anymore and the warrant is dropped.

    It’s obvious Adm Rogers knew this and told Trump on the famous visit to Trump Tower after the election in November 2016 that led to everyone in the IC calling for his scalp.

    The next question is what intelligence was really gathered using this series of warrants? What would you like to bet that 90%+ of it has zero to do with Carter Page?

    Thank you SD for pulling all this together, creating this timeline, connecting all these dots and pointing out this CRITICAL distinction in the Title I FISA warrant.

    Liked by 2 people

    • SmilinJackAbbott says:

      Great post. Page is cover for spying on Trump. And an unbelievable stroke of luck in the form of the Australian ambassador let them make an up til then clandestine investigation into Trump official and write Papadoupalas name on the file who they’re now using as cover for the crap they pulled with Page, even though they never got a FISA warrant on Papadoupalas and didn’t bother interviewing him until Jan 2017. You can’t make this stuff up.


  20. Pardos901 says:

    Looked at the FISA law, so here is my comment:

    1) DOJ/FBI seek Title I FISA warrant. They file app and must justify “belief” that Page is an “agent of a foreign power” and is using or is “ABOUT TO” use certain “facilities and places” DOJ/FBI would like to surveil. See 50 USC § 1804(a)(3)(A)-(B).

    2) The term “agent of a foreign power” covers any US citizen who allegedly acts “on behalf of a foreign power which engages in clandestine intelligence activities,” if the circumstances indicate the person “may” engage in such activities. See 50 USC § 1801(b).

    3) To find “probable cause” to issue the FISA warrant, FISC judge may consider “past activities” of target + “facts and circumstances relating to current or future activities” of target. See 50 USC § 1805(b).

    4) Probable cause is shown 4 times (original app + 3 renewals), based on unverified Dossier (+ other factors) See 2/2/18 FISA Abuse Memo

    5) Each FISA warrant can allow surveillance of “facilities and places” used or “ABOUT TO BE USED” by the “agent of a foreign power.” See 50 USC § 1805(a)(2)(B).

    6) Assuming the FISA warrants renewed every 90 days, the warrants would have issued as follows:

    10/21/16 – Original FISA Warrant
    1/19/17 – Renewal #1 (90d)
    4/19/17 – Renewal #2 (90d)
    7/18/17 – Renewal #3 (90d)

    7) So, assuming FISA warrants renewed every 90d, they allowed, for 360d period 10/21/16 to 10/16/17, surveillance of “FACILITIES AND PLACES” used or allegedly “ABOUT TO BE USED” by US Citizen Carter Page, because they believed he was an “agent of a foreign power” – I.e. a spy.


  21. JB says:

    So… with the timing (Oct 2016), what are the implications/drivers behind a Title I? Does that mean any communications b/w C Page and anyone would not require unmasking? FBI Could automatically/proactively capture comms vs more passsive (incidental) collection as in Title 7= greater likelihood/instances of ensnaring others in active surveillance net?


  22. TheWanderingStar says:

    We are in some deep stuff here.

    We heard the narrative that has been floating around since the beginning of FISA authorization that the “dossier” was needed and used in order to gain authorization extension of the surveillance.

    However, after reading about the dossier and Fusion GPS testimony and reading about FISA Title 1. I would really like to understand how the “dossier” as presented could have been any kind of justification for obtaining and authorization or extension.

    Could it be that the “dossier” was never used or possibly attempted to be used and rejected? That in fact there is other (fabricated) “evidence”, yet to be published, that was presented to the court. This would provide a strong reason for DOJ not wanting to release the FISA documentation and supporting documents, notes, etc.


    • Leane Kamari says:

      the second dossier from HRC friend as Julian Assange pointed out at Twitter 🙂


    • jmclever says:

      A false story about Carter Page was planted at Yahoo News by Christopher Steele who then “discovered” the info and included it in his dossier which was then used to unlawfully accuse Page of being a spy for the Russians so they could get FISA title 1 surveillance on him. Then everyone in contact with Page would have been swept up in the surveillance. Those people’s identities should have been masked per FISA law. Instead they were rabidly unmasked and the Intel widely disseminated in an attempt to frame the President and impeach him.


  23. jmclever says:

    So they framed Carter Page so they could get Title I surveillance. Then everyone in contact with him would have been “incidentally collected” That means that the other people in the Trump campaign would have been unlawfully unmasked and their info spread through Obama’s PDB


  24. Ivehadit says:

    What has been done to our country, our president and his family sickens me to the point of tears. I weep for them all. I want prosecutions to the fullest extent of the law but I take little joy in it.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Gadsden says:

    Is there proof anywhere that anyone other than Carter Page was surveiled? By the time the FISA warrant was issued, he had already left the campaign. I am assuming they used the warrant as an excuse to spy on the campaign, but has this been proven, or is this still at the “looks likely” stage? Can anyone point me in the right direction? Trying to get ammo against the liberal talking points here.


  26. Shadrach says:

    Thank you for reposting this, SD. This is one of those “small details” that mean everything and that I keep getting wrapped around the axle on. Much appreciated. I will re- re-read it all.


    • Shadrach says:

      While I’m here, I’ve been reading about Carter Page. He sounds like a complete idiot, if any of the stories out there are true. And he sounds like a total nut job from the letter that he wrote & that I found published in the Intercept. Idiocy is not illegal, and being a nut job is not a reason for calling him a spy. Well, there go the last vestiges of any possibility of Trump/Russia collusion. If PDJT were actually colluding w/ Russia he’d have kept 100 miles away from this guy at all times.


    • Shadrach says:

      This is an interesting read on the FISA/FISC authorities as it relates to Carter Page. The blog author is anti-Trump, but the explanations for the down-side of releasing the memo (more recent articles than the one posted above) are expressed articulately.


  27. JMC says:

    So let me get this straight: According to the excellent summaries of SD and Robert Barnes, who SD quotes as an authority, the “salacious dossier” on Trump was presented to the FISA court judge by the DOJ/FBI to obtain surveillance permission over …….Carter Page???? Wha…? What am I missing here? Obviously the FBI/DOJ wanted to surveille Trump, but using the dossier to surveille Carter Page seems very indirect. And an obvious subterfuge, which the FISA laws are meant to prevent. Can some wiser head here explain this to me?


    • JMC says:

      I should have clarified, “but using the Trump salacious dossier as an excuse to surveille Carter Page, and by way of surveilling Page to surveille Trump seems to be an obvious subterfuge (if also a Rube Golderburg-lke one), which the FISA laws are meant to prevent”.


    • rf121 says:

      No way this was the first abuse of FISA. Probably been going on for years and they knew what they had to feed the court. Which apparrently is not much with 99% approval.

      With Page they got super surveillance because he was a “spy”. So anyone he looked at, talked with, thought about could also be surveilled. How it lasted into 2017 I don’t know.

      My wiser head is hurting. Where’s my rubics cube?


  28. georgiafl says:

    The Memo Reveals Coup Against America
    “he Democrats and the media spent a week lying to the American people about the “memo.”

    The memo was full of “classified information” and releasing” it would expose “our spying methods.” By “our,” they didn’t mean American spying methods. They meant Obama’s spying methods.

    A former White House Ethics Lawyer claimed that the Nunes memo would undermine “national security.” ”
    “There is no legitimately classified information in the Nunes memo. But it does endanger a number of “Americans” in the “intelligence community” who colluded with the Clinton campaign against America.”

    “It endangers former FBI Director Comey, former Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, former Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, current Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and the current FBI General Counsel Dana Boente who had previously served as the Acting Attorney General. These men and women had allegedly signed FISA applications that were at best misleading and at worst badly tainted.

    The Clinton campaign had enlisted figures in the FBI and the DOJ to manipulate an election. The coup against America operated as a “state within a state” inside the United States government.

    “The political origins of the Steele dossier were then known to senior DOJ and FBI officials,” the memo informs us. But they did not reveal on the FISA application that their core evidence came from the Clinton campaign. Sources were certainly being protected. But they were Clinton sources.”
    (bold mine)

    Liked by 3 people

  29. JAS says:

    There are “collectors” of raw data and “consumers”. The collectors get to see it all (and could be leak sources). The consumers must ask the collectors to unmask. There are “minimization” procedures for that.

    According to Comey there are Four collectors (see below). What I don’t know is if the NSA and CIA are the only agencies that collect actively all the time, meaning, that the other two have to go through courts, be it local US warrants and/or FISA requests. All of them have “incidental collection” of “Americans”. All consumers can ask for unmasking (and can also leak).

    In Flynn’s case that unmasking was obviously leaked to the Washington Post. The big question is: Did that unmasking come from Active incidental collection” (NSA/CIA)? Or, did it come from a FISA request that was in place at the time? Both of these before the Page Fisa Request? Or, did they trace all of the comms of all the people that were associated to Page’s Title1, as Snowden said they do?

    COMEY: I think all agencies that collect information pursuant to FISA have what are called standard minimization procedures, which are approved by the FISA court that govern how they will treat U.S. person information. So I know the NSA does, I know the CIA does, obviously the FBI does. I don’t know for sure beyond that.

    GOWDY: How about the department of — how about Main Justice?

    COMEY: Main Justice, I think does have standard minimization procedures.

    GOWDY: All right, so that’s four. The NSA, FBI, CIA, Main Justice. Does the White House have the authority to unmask a U.S. citizen’s name?

    COMEY: I think other elements of the government that are consumers of our products can ask the collectors to unmask. The unmasking resides with those who collected the information.


  30. Mickturn says:

    The key is this “Because of this direct approach, any group, organization or entity who came in contact with U.S. Person Carter Page was then open for ancillary review and FBI investigation. Those who engaged in contact with Carter Page became subject to surveillance and searches in the same manner as if Page was an actual foreign agent.”

    That way the Ba$tards in the DOJ and FBI could go after Trump AND anyone else associated. This was the Setup and now we know…this was done with intent and forethought!

    I want to see these Ba$tards Hang from the nearest tree!!!!!


    • JMC says:

      But apparently they used the Trump dossier to surveille Carter Page. And then of course through him, if in fact they did use him at all, Trump. It’s as if the black hats were thinking, “We could go after Trump using the Trump dossier, but we don’t want to admit we’re going after a presidential candidate, so we’ll go after Carter Page with a dossier aimed at Trump and then get Trump through surveillance of Page”.

      Liked by 1 person

      • JMC says:

        In other words, the premise of using the “Trump dossier” as probable cause to surveille….(Drum Roll)… Carter Page is absurd.


      • Chickficshun says:

        Yes but see this what I dont understand. By the time the got the warrantbon Page, he was no longer working on the campaign.
        My question is….since it was a Title 1 warrant could the FBI surveil everyone who ever had contact with Page?


    • rf121 says:

      Comey is like 6′ 8″. The nearest tree may not work.

      Liked by 2 people

  31. Anonymous says:

    Are there only two numbers (I and VII)? IOW, does “not VII” imply “I”. Why wasn’t it just written that way?


  32. Lion2017 says:

    So Rosenstein’s recommendation to fire Comey, the firing of Comey resulting in SC Mueller was a set up. Many of us here thought this for some time. It never sat right with me.


    • WeThePeople2016 says:

      Something else I learned from Greg Jarrett is that Rosenstein brought Mueller to interview with Trump for the head of the FBI. Trump it is reported wanted a fresh face since Mueller has been around the swamp a while. Rosenstein turns around and then appoints Mueller as Special Counsel!


  33. Gov Jay says:

    Robert Barnes legal commentary is simply excellent… and is a must read for everyone (thanks for posting Sundance)… The bigger question here is why did they go to the FISA court to begin with?… and we all know the answer to that one…


  34. Gammer says:

    I have read elsewhere that Obama’s daily briefing had Trump team intelligence and was passed to the Hillary team . If this is true it goes all ghe way to the top. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I wonder how high it will penetrate and how far the prosecution’s will go.


  35. Mccabe’s testimony is everything. Get proof that he did in fact say what the last line of the memo claims and it’s game over. Nunes and company have to deliver on this. Until then the democrats can pound sand and fund the next Isis. Funny how they, and McCain, fund and trained Isis but complain about how this memo endangers the American public. Fate has to have a punishment fitting for them when the time comes.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. talker2u says:

    I am sorry.

    The arrogant, traitorous men and women who conceived and carried out these nefarious schemes must receive the Ultimate Punishment.

    And to the intelligence community who can and perhaps do spy on me:

    F*ck you!

    Liked by 1 person

  37. D. Manny says:

    2017-10-15 WSJ article re: Americans don’t need a Justice Department coverup abetted by Glenn Simpson’s media buddies

    **Remember, Glenn Simpson and his “media buddies” all used to be employees of WSJ at one time….


  38. So what is the ‘insurance plan’ Strzok talked about? I thought it was the investigation itself, but I guess technically at that point in time it could only be a Title I FISA APP to allow Cart Page to be the ‘insurance’ to allow them to ‘legally’ gather data on those associated with him?


  39. D. Manny says:

    NSD admits to FISC that surveillance included Obama’s political opponents

    Liked by 1 person

    • Anonymous says:

      Huh? That is a 57 page memo about IG access to wiretapping info.

      If it contains what you say it does, please point to a relevant page.


  40. Chickficshun says:

    Sundance, this intrigues me. Page warrant was October 2016. After he was not an advisor to the campaign. Why? Was this just an excuse to spy on all known associates he had contacts with? Past or current? That the IC now can spy on anyone he ever had contact with? And the only thing the FBI had to back up the warrant request was that in the past he had been approached by the FBI because they suspected he was being recruited by Russian agents. And a Yahoo story saying he was a suspected spy. The problem with this is the classic chicken or egg first scenario.
    1. How would Steele know Page had been approached by the FBI in 2013? Unless someone told him this info.
    2. Issikoff said Steele and Glenn Simpson met with him but that he already was working on this story and Steele confirmed. (Daily Caller) Again this was in September the story appeared on Yahoo. So how did Issikoff know this info unless someone in the IC leaked it to him. Unless he is lying and he was getting all his info from Steele/Fusion. Which goes back to the fact thst if this is the case, the FBI told Steele this info.
    3. The memo states this story was used to back up the request for the warrant.
    4. Page had a warrant under Title 1, basically calling him a known spy. And yet he’s running around free. There have been no indictments proving him a spy or even being caught lying to the FBI. Nothng. He is actually stated he is going to sue the government as well now.

    The interesting story is no one is talking about Page. Instead you’re hearing about Papadopoulous again. But funny enough, he wasn’t even interviewed by the FBI until Jan of 2017. He wasn’t caught in his lies until the Trump people forwarding everything over.
    But another interesting fact. A couple of weeks ago when Fusion was out downplaying the dossier and saying Papadopolous was what kicked off the investigation. How would Glenn Simpson know this unless Bruce Ohr told him this. Or someone else in the FBI or DOJ. So correct me if I’m wrong but that us leaking info from an FBI investigation. How is a non government private company getting info about inside FBI investigations, especially when a Special Prosecutor is involved.

    It must be because Fusion was being regularly getting info about the whole operation all along during the campaign.

    Who is Papadopolous really. He tried very very very hard to get a meeting set up between Trump and Russians.

    This should be pounded away at in the conservative media non stop.


  41. recoverydotgod says:

    Yes, the government went the Title I FISA route, with Carter Page. It is an important case in need of oversight and transparency. It seems we are now going along that path, which was needed from the get go.

    How to Spy on a President
    March 09, 2017


    If, instead, the government has probable cause to believe that an American—or any non-citizen who is located inside the United States—is an agent of a foreign power, it can obtain an order from the so-called “FISA Court” (known as a “Title I FISA order”) to conduct surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes.



    And yet, as Cato Institute scholar Julian Sanchez has pointed out, “intelligence monitoring—whether direct or indirect—of persons connected with a presidential campaign inherently carries a high risk of abuse.”


    Liked by 1 person

  42. Perhaps one big tell is rothenstein is asked to resign and refuses and demands to be fired ., then you will know he wasn’t duped but was part of the plot and wants Dems to make hysterical hay out of his firing


  43. G3 says:

    Former President Barack Obama’s ambassador to the United Nations has testified that others made so-called unmasking requests in her name, House Oversight Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy


    • Anonymous says:

      What does this even mean?

      1. How often or what percentage of the unmasking was “in her name”. Even approximate. For instance, how many unmasking requests does she remember?

      2. Why is the Amb to the UN making these requests? She is not that important a player?

      3. What level is allowed to make “unmasking requests”.

      4. If they were “made in her name” how was this done logistically? Did someone else want the info and she actually put the request in? Did an actual memo or email come out in her name? Who were the people who did this?

      [Was there no freaking followup??]


  44. Another Scott says:

    So Mueller was appointed to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;”. There’s pretty much a snowball’s chance they would consider the subject matter in the Nunes memo as a matter arising from their investigation. Given the evidence now released, shouldn’t a special counsel be empowered to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of Hillary Clinton”? Couldn’t one also be appointed to investigate “any practices in the Department of Justice designed to mislead FISA Court Judges”?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Anonymous says:

      I would take the concerns a lot more seriously, if they hadn’t rammed that reauthorization of secret surveillance through. Don’t worry, we will have safeguards. What? There were supposed to be safeguards before!


  45. William F Buckley's Ghost says:

    Somebody very high up in the Administration like Obama, Susan Rice or Loretta Lynch had to give these DOJ and FBI bureaucrats the green light to do this otherwise they wouldn’t have had to balls to stick their necks in a guillotine and destroy their careers.


  46. Chris says:

    wait a minute. Page left the campaign; 30 days before the FISA warrant. Do you suppose that the campaign knew he was being surveilled?


  47. LafnH20 says:

    Title I, imho, allows “The Focused Intel” on Carter Page to support the dossier. The dossier intel has a limited shelf life after Jun 2016 FISA Application was denied. (Too Broad)

    Rethink Sans dirty dossier…. 702’s falling out of fashion.🤔🤔🤔🤔💡

    Enter “The Focused Intel” to save the day. Hey, look what we found!
    Title I Probable Cause Order Approved. Along with the underlying spying and connections in tact.
    Just in time, too! Oct 21 2016 is 91 days from Inauguration.

    The dossier becomes less and less pertinent moving forward. Being replaced by more and more current info. Soon the dossier is only a formality (down played) in favor of the “New and Approved” verified and “pinky sweared” intel to support further renewals of the Title I Probable Cause Order.

    Just guessin


  48. PocaMAGAhontas says:

    IMHO it seems that the continuance of the surveillance after the inauguration was not an attempted coup. The coup had already taken place. In the minds of those who have taken our government, the citizens of the United States are the enemy. The non-violent actions of the internal coup should be considered acts of war. The spreading of lies by treasonous propagandists should likewise be considered terrorist acts. How unfortunate that the enforcement of law against traitors is considered subject to tainted public opinion. Spread the truth. Trust in God. Pray for peace.

    Liked by 2 people

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