11pm Irma Advisory and Ground Report…

Ground report follows NHC update.  Thankfully the slower forward progress has moderated the most severe and extreme Irma timing with SWFL tidal impacts.  Unfortunately, Tampa and St. Pete are now in the direct impact path. Tampa Bay storm surge is a very serious concern.

At 1100 PM EDT (0300 UTC), the eye of Hurricane Irma was located near latitude 23.5 North, longitude 81.0 West. Irma is moving slowly northwestward away from the north coast of Cuba near 6 mph (9 km/h). A turn toward the north-northwest with an increase in
forward speed is expected through late Monday. On the forecast track, the center of Irma is expected to cross the Lower Florida Keys Sunday morning and then move near or along the west coast of Florida Sunday afternoon through Monday morning. Irma should then
move inland over the Florida panhandle and southwestern Georgia Monday afternoon.

Maximum sustained winds are near 120 mph (195 km/h) with higher gusts. Irma is a category 3 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale. Irma is forecast to restrengthen a little while it moves through the Straits of Florida and remain a powerful
hurricane as it approaches the Florida Keys and the west coast of Florida.

Hurricane-force winds extend outward up to 70 miles (110 km) from the center, and tropical-storm-force winds extend outward up to 205 miles (335 km).  (more)

The storm is now close enough to gain insight from local weather radar.  The best SWFL local weather coverage and radar is from NBC-2.com (LINK)

Every hurricane shelter in Collier (Naples), Lee (Ft. Myers), and Charlotte counties are full.  Tens of thousands could not get into shelters, many of those people headed to the East coast of Florida to look for hotel rooms, or just ride the storm out a greater distance from the highest wind-field and surge.

However, there’s still almost zero gasoline available anywhere South of I-4.  Today I was traveling to our staging area with ten 5 gallon cans of gas; and ended up pouring them all into the gas tanks of a few desperate families who were prepared for the storm, but not the massive storm surge announcement.

Here’s what’s visible from the area.  The late mandatory evacuation area notice meant that many couldn’t get into shelters.

The worst issue still remains, there is little to no fuel South and/or West of Lake-O.  PERIOD.  Don’t believe the BS if anyone says different.

Myself (heading east) and another CERT member (who was coming south) took physical counts today and noted 133 stations without gas in: Lee, Charlotte, Collier, Hendry, Glades, Highland, Desoto, Sarasota, Manatee and Polk Counties.  Only 4 were found with with limited supply able to provide fuel to customers.

This is a terrible and seemingly avoidable failure in logistics and planning that needs to be worked out quickly.  How are evacuations supposed to work when people can’t find fuel in their neighborhood to drive inland to shelter?  How can recovery efforts take place when there’s no fuel within 100 miles of the impact zone?

This has been an issue since September 4th; that’s almost six days without fuel in most gas stations.  This issue needs to be solved quickly or recovery and rescue efforts will be impacted.

Our CERT team is planning to head back to the specific coastal areas, and specific neighborhoods, where we know people stayed hunkered down – just as soon as the backside storm winds drop and the storm surge recedes.   Tentatively mid-day Monday.

All thoughts and prayers for these coastal communities is deeply appreciated.

All fine and fancy, but Florida Needs Fuel.

Fuel !

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164 Responses to 11pm Irma Advisory and Ground Report…

  1. PNWLifer says:

    Those families you saved with your extra filledngas cans will never forget your kindness. You’re truly a guardian angel in more ways than one. Stay safe!

    Liked by 39 people

  2. ALEX says:

    It’s as if you’re part of State was forgotten about…All I heard was Miami for a week..Governor Scott best get on this. The coverage has sounded like a scramble on the South West coast all day..

    Liked by 10 people

    • ALEX says:

      And yes…Thoughts and Prayers

      Liked by 4 people

    • WSB says:

      This is going to have to come from the military via the Navy or Marines. No way now to get anything down those two highways after flooding.

      I still do not understand why there are no refeuling stations, whether along an evacuation route or as back up to local gas stations?

      Florida, being a peninsula as it is, really should have a militarized forward movement logistics plan in place.

      Bless you, SD. Stay safe, and maybe a few chopper pilots from one of the Guard’s best will land with some juice!

      Liked by 5 people

      • millwright says:

        WSB: First and foremost, my prayers for all those ( required or choice ) in the storm path ! Regardless of the degree of preparation its always a “crap shoot” ! So many variables and so much energy all combined with Dame nature using cultural artifacts as a weapon ! Second, check your facts. The USG ( thanks to prompt action by POTUS Trump ) provided considerable additional supplies of motor fuels prior to Irma’s proximity shutting down operations by suspending U.S. Flagged delivery regulations. Third; The current state of affairs is ( IMNSHO ) directly attributable to comments like yours ! Were Americans less dependent upon the federal government in these circumstances instead placing our reliance for essential logistical support upon local and state resources we all would be far better off ! A huge step to facilitating that would be a repeal of the 17th amendment returning to the states their constitutionally directed peers !

        Liked by 4 people

      • singingsoul says:

        Government has done much but cannot help people who did not prepare?
        They canon ship gas now in the storm that is unrealistic.
        To bad people did not start filling gas cans a weak before to make sure gas is available.
        I am positive if logistically possible the gas will be there. I am very confident of Presidents team.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. kinthenorthwest says:

    Praying for you all, you are surrounded with prayers.
    Wish there was something we could do to get fuel into the state.
    Pray that they know about it and will do something about it ASAP.
    Covering you in loving prayers for the Lord to keep you all safe and protected.

    Liked by 11 people

    • tgmccoy says:

      The problem with Oregon is our watermelon Dem government.
      I got an E-mail from our brave Sen.Smerkley. (unsolicited of course,)
      on the letterhead was “Keep it in the ground!”
      the usual drivel about wind and solar being “Renewable”.
      I’m a believer in Renewable power- as in a fast breeder reactor, but
      that is another story…

      Liked by 2 people

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        What ticks me off is that while 1/2 the states of Washington & Oregon are burning up, the two governors are part the group that plan on suing Trump over DACA.
        Oregon’s resources and monies have better places to be spent. If not not on the state, then how about helping with other disasters in America.

        Liked by 2 people

  4. rsanchez1990 says:

    I’m lucky enough I had family come in from Miami yesterday. With the change in track and strength they’re a little relieved that they won’t suffer as much property damage, but at least they’ll be spending a few days here instead of in Mad Max!

    Liked by 6 people

  5. AAA Triple says:

    Thinking of you tonight Sundance and all of Florida. Praying for you and with you. Sending you strength and healing energy. 🙏🏻

    Liked by 9 people

    • singingsoul says:

      Prayer for everyone who is in the path of Irma. I am also thinking of those who got a late start out of Florida to a safe place. Those stuck in their cars. God be with all people.
      I am thinking of our friends here on this forum who are in Florida and cannot wait to hear from them.
      God Bless Sundance who is showing his heart of Christ over and over. That is the American spirit. Stay safe everyone.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Gil says:

    Were the gas stations you counted predominately one company? SD, considering Chevron was called out for price gouging, would running out possibly be intentional? Where are your refineries or does gas come from out of state?
    And lastly, if you will be out of fuel for chainsaws, cars, generators, how the bleep can roads get cleared to get gas into the stations and do rescues as needed?
    So fubar its exponential.
    And you are a beacon, to be true.

    Liked by 10 people

    • sundance says:

      All kinds of gas stations. Big corporate gas stations, mom-n-pop ops, convenience stores, sketchy places with bathroom keys on bloody monkey wrenchs, etc. all kinds of gas pump places, all of them; all totally out of fuel and most of them said they’d only had one delivery in a week that didn’t last half a day….

      Yes, ALL the issues you outline are part of the trouble we are going to have.

      Liked by 15 people

      • fade says:

        A gas station near where I live got gas last night. The thing is they haven’t been open since then.I only know this because I’m friends with a few people that work there. So we are looking at a mom and pop gas station full of gas that isn’t supplying.

        Liked by 9 people

        • sundance says:

          I hadn’t thought about these stations “having” gas, but looking like “they’re out” (leaving signs on pumps etc) because they are closed…. Interesting.

          Liked by 10 people

          • fade says:

            I was pretty disturbed to learn about it myself. They were supposed to be open today but weren’t. They were refilled on Friday night, but because the owners were afraid of keeping their employees in a bad situations they closed before the tanks were refilled.

            Like

          • justfactsplz says:

            This happened at the convenience store across the street from me. They ran out of gas a couple of days ago. Then we saw the tanker accompanied by a state trooper filling the pump stations. The next day the pumps had the out of gas bags over them. My husband knows the lady that works there. Yes they have gas but are not selling it. But why are they holding on to it?

            This really is screwed all up. Florida was not prepared for the massive evacuations that needed to take place. The reason we didn’t leave the state was because of fear of not getting gas and being stranded on I 75.

            Prayers being sent up for you for physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional strength for your missions that lie ahead of you. You’re a good egg, Sundance.

            Liked by 1 person

            • fade says:

              We are in a place where everyone is afraid and panicking Those still in the state that want to leave need gas.The problem is many gas stations are mom and pop operations and they also want to leave. It is hardly ideal for saving lives, but challenging people beyond their means only creates more fear and chaos.

              Liked by 2 people

          • JohnnyII says:

            Also consider, I have seen a number of ‘there I was’ stories of folks hitting the two-lane highways, avoiding the interstate, and finding ample fuel on up into northern GA.

            And too WSB mentions the false flag. Good point.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Founding Fathers Fan says:

            Gas station owners and employees are people, too and may well have closed up and evacuated.

            Liked by 4 people

          • Cetera says:

            If you can find a station that has rec’d delivery, but isn’t open, and you have no electricity to pump it, no generator, etc, and have worked out the legalities of emergency “borrowing” of the fuel… I did some research for a book I was/am writing, post-apocalyptic setting:

            Open the refueling ports for the underground tanks. If possible, determine which has a straight pipe down into the tank, and not a pipe with joints/bends. Use a flashlight, dangle a chain/rope, whatever. Assuming a 4-inch refueling port for the tank and a straight shot into the tank:

            1. Get a 2-3 foot section of 3″ PVC pipe.
            2. Cap one end with a one-way valve in the cap, so flow from inside the pipe out the valve is blocked. You may have to McGuyver this.
            3. On the end opposite the cap/valve, drill a hole through the diameter of the pipe, and insert a bolt. Do the same again 90° offset, just below the first set of holes, giving you two bolts making a X or a +.
            4. Tie a rope around the junction of the bolts, which will keep your rope centered.

            Lower the PVC pipe bucket into the tank. As the pipe sinks, the one-way valve should open, and it will fill with fuel. Pull out, the valve will close. Empty into a bucket for funneling into a gas can.

            If you can’t find or get the one-way valve idea to work, drill a couple of holes into the PVC pipe 6-8 inches from the capped end. If you can get the pipe to sink enough into the fuel, the pipe will fill to that level. Haul it out again. You’ll only have 6-8 inches of fuel in it, but can do it as much as needed. Pouring the fuel out will be more proplematic, but in an emergency, you can probably figure something out.

            From my research, if the fuel ports aren’t labeled, then go by paint colors. I’ve never verified this with anyone in the know, but it is a starting place:

            White = regular unleaded
            Blue = mid-grade
            Red = Premium
            Yellow = diesel

            Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            If possible, I would try to ascertain which stations had recent deliveries and are closed, as these would be the first places I would check after Irma’s visit. To be fair, these folks were working hard providing fuel to those who were evacuating, yet still needed to take care of their own families. At some point they had to close down to take care of their own. It will be interesting to see how quickly after Irma leaves that the stations reopen for recovery efforts.

            Where are the emergency services obtaining their fuel. Do they have their own fueling stations or they using regular gas stations. If the emergency service vehicles are using regular gas stations, these vehicles will have priority over civilian needs.

            Take care and stay safe, we are all praying for you.

            Liked by 1 person

          • auscitizenmom says:

            For price gouging later when everyone is desperate for it for cleanup?

            Like

        • WSB says:

          I hope this is not some sort of false flag event to resist President Trump. If so, it must be exposed and corrected immediately.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Sylvia Avery says:

          Wow, I wonder how much of that issue is in play. My first reaction was outrage, but then I thought about it and the owners are only human, too, with homes and families and a business to secure and prep. Who knows, maybe the owners needed to evacuate so are gone?

          This is just a whole other level and type of planning that I don’t know how you would address, but undoubtedly someone smarter than me would know.

          Liked by 3 people

          • wondering999 says:

            Sylvia, that is my thought also, gas station owners/operators also need to evacuate or hunker down, and a gas station would not be my first choice to hunker down in!

            Also medical personnel and caretakers have families of their own to watch over, or might have chosen to evacuate. I am thinking of a hardworking mom I know — she is the house manager for two disabled men in a home sponsored by an agency. However, she also has a disabled sister of her own, plus four young sons. She isn’t in Florida, but I’m certain situations like hers also exist in Florida. It is a huge ethical dilemma, who gets prioritized? normally, your own family first. I don’t think most organizational leaders plan well for these scenarios, and generally try to scapegoat lower-income workers especially — but that isn’t good leadership and it isn’t practical. Organizations have to plan for severe weather, but most of them wait until crisis hits, and then blame their lowest-paid workers. I’d like this to change

            Liked by 2 people

      • Fe says:

        Praying about this right now. I sure hope your governor is all over this issue as well as the federal govt.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Gil says:

        Couldn’t a former head of Exxon be helpful in this situation? He has the knowledge to be sure.
        Can any milutary ships off load gasoline when its safe and bypass roads? How about helicopter delivery?

        Liked by 6 people

        • oldiadguy says:

          I believe the military has the capability to provide fuel to the areas affected. The military supplies it’s own fleet of vehicles in war zones, so they should be able to do the same here. The military helicoptered in fuel bladders to set up fueling stations during Desert Storm. Also, how would the Marines supply fuel for the fighting vehicles if they conducted a landing? They would bring it ashore to isolated areas with one of these.

          Instead of fighting vehicles, image smaller tanker trucks like those used by the military.

          I believe the amphibious ships that are in route to the area have both helicopters and hovercraft aboard. We will see how they are put to use.

          They just have to coordinate with civil authorities to know what areas need the most help.

          Take Care

          Like

      • BlueDevil says:

        Have you got the Gas Buddy App Sundance?

        Liked by 2 people

      • millwright says:

        SD: Stay safe ! My prayers go with you ! Your comments make me wonder if the “swamp critters” didn’t thwart some early actions by POTUS Trump to increase the fuel resource pool ! IAC, it seems like a promising avenue to investigate post storm ! Right now I know private and public power companies throughout the Eastern U.S. are mobilizing repair crews to deal with Irma but everyone has to realize “parts are a finite resource”, especially when we have two catastrophic events occurring in the same time frame ! Depending upon the extent of damage to grid systems, I’m anticipating this ain’t gonna be a “plug and play” scenario !

        Liked by 3 people

        • oldiadguy says:

          “parts are a finite resource”

          Excellent point and one that many forget. Hopefully the out of state crews are bringing replacement supplies with them.

          Take Care

          Like

    • fran wendelboe says:

      Don’t forget, the gulf coast oil refineries have been shut down for at least a week. So no production, no pipeline flow means fuel needs to be shipped further than usual…

      Liked by 2 people

      • xyzlatin says:

        It seems that part of preparations should include having 2 cans of fuel always on hand for evacuations. This is never on any list I have seen.

        Liked by 3 people

        • JM Covfefe says:

          Figures Sundance would have 10x 5gal cans to evac with. I have 12x 6gal on shelf that I rotate every 6mo, 850 diesel in tanks, and a pair of empty aluminum 80g tanks that fit in the back of the jeep (with cargo on top) for OhShoot scenario…

          Liked by 2 people

        • donebydesign says:

          Great comment. I concur. But, not everyone has a safe place to store fuel.

          Homeowners, yes. Apt renters, no. It’s a hassle in all honesty.

          I kept 30 gals for several years, stabilized and rotated annually. Never needed it much. Quit cause it was really a safety hazard. Filled my cans on Sunday while gas was plentiful. Planning ahead as you suggested is the simple solution.

          Liked by 4 people

          • oldiadguy says:

            “But, not everyone has a safe place to store fuel.”

            Some communities have ordinances against storing fuel in residential areas. A neighbor had a couple of empty propane cylinders next to his house until some busybody called the fire department. By the response, you would have thought the neighborhood was going to blow up.

            Also, if you can store fuel, store it away from the residence in a vented shed.

            Take Care

            Liked by 1 person

            • auscitizenmom says:

              Back in the 70’s people in Cal. were storing 50 gal (?) drums, sometimes 2 or 3 in their apts. After a few of them blew up or caught fire (probably from lit cigarettes by the same genious who stored them there) the authorities started trying to find them all.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Dixie says:

              Suppose all those people in Houston had gas stored in containers…what would have been the repercussions of all that gas circulating in the flood waters?

              Liked by 1 person

            • Jacqueline Taylor Robson says:

              We have a 300 gallon propane tank in the back yard that we never let get more than 25% empty. No natural gas in our area, so this is for heating, hot water, and cooking. It’s half full now, but we don’t need heat yet. Just for cooking and hot water, it would last a year!

              Liked by 2 people

  7. the rampage will go on
    mankind will endure
    there are no good answers tonight only prayers

    Liked by 4 people

  8. My mother-in-law lives in Port Richey and is total unwilling to evacuate. My wife is beside herself but there’s no way to get to her in time from here in Phoenix, and you can’t force someone to leave who is dead-set against doing so. I’m afraid there are a lot of relatives with distant families that are in the same boat.

    Liked by 12 people

  9. Joe Collins says:

    Thank you for your service and compassion.

    Liked by 6 people

  10. sundance says:

    I’m genuinely sorry if my tone sounds intemperate or curt on the gasoline issue; however, my frustration is wearing down my understanding and patience gene.

    Does anyone have specific institutional or industry knowledge that can help me understand this logistical void of such an essential need?

    Liked by 17 people

    • Sunshine says:

      Yes. Especially with neighboring states that could have chipped in to provide fuel.

      Like

    • Linda says:

      I don’t blame you a bit for your frustration, Sundance. It’s unreal that they keep telling ever more people to evacuate without checking to see if they have what is required to do that.

      Liked by 4 people

    • chicagodeplorable says:

      I just came back on CTH; sorry this is maybe too late for you. gasbuddy.com has a tracker in place; there are several gas stations in Fort Lauderdale that have both gas and power. Many others have limited supplies. I’m not sure where exactly you are, but you can check their site. Good luck and God Bless!

      Liked by 3 people

    • Preliminary thoughts:

      Many Gulf refineries were down.

      Price-Gouging antennas high … highly risky to raise prices in Florida to fund refinery shut-down costs, lost revenue during the shut-downs, and start-up costs. Florida AG Pam Biondi’s grandstanding promises of crackdowns and prosecutions have eliminated any possibility for market-based or cost-based pricing. (We all know how price controls pervert markets and inevitably lead to shortages.)

      With demand outstripping supply, the industry CAN charge premiums to customers in states located between the refineries and Florida.

      Those customers will both suck up available supply (before it gets to Florida).

      Those customers – along with speculators and hedgers – can suck up the remainder before it gets to Florida. Everyone knows prices will spike during the recovery. (We all know how today’s massively-funded hedgers undermine free markets and whipsaw supply, demand and prices.)

      Lastly, why incur the logistics (and security) costs, not to mention tying up your transportation assets in gridlocked Florida (forfeiting the capacity to make more frequent deliveries), if you can sell it in locations (or to customers) that will pay more and do not incur those costs?

      What I cannot fathom is why Florida didn’t use BOTH sides of their freeways for (northbound) evacuation flows during the day, with periods at night for a couple of lanes of southbound freeways to be used for prepositioning fuel, supplies and responders.

      Liked by 8 people

      • … using BOTH sides would have saved massive amounts of wasted fuel, not to mention multiplying the number of people who could safely evacuate.

        I recall that in past year(s), Texas very successfully did this.

        Liked by 5 people

      • georgiafl says:

        Folks were also going south to help their parents/grandparents evacuate.

        Liked by 2 people

      • BeePee says:

        Finally somebody gets it. Heck, if gas gets to $100 a gallon, I myself will load the pickup truck with gas cans and go to Florida because I couldn’t afford not to. Allow the forces of supply and demand to set prices to inform the market place and let the market allocate resources most efficiently but no, Florida officials want to politically grand stand so my gas cans stay up here in Chicago and people die in a major hurricane. I’m not going to go to prison for saving somebodys life. How can you “price gauge” in a free society when you can simply buy gas from somebody else? My neighbor has a bigger pickup truck than I do. But nobody else is going to go to prison either so there IS nobody else. But heck, think of the great job security the Florida officials now have after the storm. So we’re good. An ignorant constituency is a great thing.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Dixie says:

        So maybe the grandstanding didn’t help the situation?

        Liked by 1 person

    • Sylvia Avery says:

      Your frustration is totally understandable.

      I think it was Treeper Dogsmaw from the Houston area who reported in an earlier thread seeing fuel tankers being escorted by police all driving above speed limit down the interstate heading towards Florida.

      It doesn’t answer your question, but I guess it illustrates some sort of effort is being made.

      Praying for you and everyone else. I’ll pray specifically about fuel as well. Thanks for taking the time to report in.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Deplorable_Vespucciland says:

      Authorities may have expected a lot of people in the South and East coast of the state to evacuate northward, not necessarily out of state. They also likely hoped that many would just go to local refugee centers? Once they realized that West coast citizens were equally vulnerable it was too late to send enough fuel trucks down into harm’s way. The previous week there were issues with gasoline shortages here in Texas and distributors may have been distracted by that?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Andrew says:

      The answer is simple.
      No new refineries, no new storage yards, no Florida gas pipeline like other states have. Fuel for most locations comes in by truck from Tampa, Miami or Jacksonville ports.

      Blame it on… Enviro-weenies. Yup. Friggin environmentalists.

      Florida has huge gas and oil fields off of both coasts, and some inland, enough that we could be a net exporter after servicing our needs but we’re not allowed to drill, we’re not allowed to store, and we’re not allowed to have our own refineries.

      Liked by 7 people

    • Texian says:

      I’m no expert but here is an overview pdf file. The bottleneck is obviously at the “distribution” point coupled with existing contracts. Hurricane Harvey threw a crescent wrench into it by creating a spot market shortage.. Due to an already existing shortage, companies holding those contracts are the ones that would have to short other areas of the country to compensate delivery to a critical area. Apparently they are not doing this. Another solution would be for gubmint to retain storages for emergencies, (or open the ones they have for emergency military operations. The National Guard could deliver). Gubmint bureaucracy is dropping the ball big time on this fuel issue. Politicians pontificating and issuing evacuation orders isn’t enough.. How? THERE IS NO FUEL! Anybody in the Trump Administration noticing this?

      [pg. 10] “.Terminals are owned by individual petroleum marketers by common carrier pipeline/terminal companies or by integrated oil companies.. In a shortage, contractual needs are served first and there is little or no surplus. Hence, vendors who rely solely on the spot market may be unable to supply critical needs customers during a shortage..”

      http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Policy/Safety/API-Oil-Supply-Chain.pdf

      Like

    • mimbler says:

      I was criticized for pointing this out previously, but what the hay. It costs more to deliver fuel to these areas during hurricane conditions. But.. the “price gouging” laws prevent charging more for that fuel. So no one is eager to deliver fuel at a financial loss. And they don’t.
      The result: Everyone has access to non-existent fuel at the previous hurricane prices.
      If I lived in FL I would like to buy real gas at 10 dollars a gallon rather than unicorn gas at 2 dollars a gallon.
      Exactly why communist central planning doesn’t work, I know the anti gouging laws are made in the best of intentions, but it is still central planning circumventing free enterprise.

      And you see the results in an amazingly short amount of time,

      Mike

      Liked by 3 people

      • JM Covfefe says:

        You are absolutely right. But people should also be stocking and rotating such an essential. It does not cost any more than the containers to keep fuel stock on hand, unless you have an environment that prohibits it ( like apartment).

        Liked by 1 person

        • Texian says:

          I see.. so essentially things have gotten so messed up in bureaucracy that the people now have to have their own fuel storage tanks to meet their own demand.. just great. Now I have to buy a fuel storage tank.. but then I have to deal with state code, then the city code, then the neighborhood code, etc. The problem in America is “Bureaucracy..”

          I have started my own “Bureaucracy”.. If you step into my yard, there is a $150.00 permit fee to enter, then there is a $300.00 per foot step environmental damage fee, and if you fart, there is a $1500.00 unauthorized methane gas release fee..

          Liked by 2 people

        • donebydesign says:

          Disagree. See my comment upthread.

          Like

      • Texian says:

        Yep, bottom line is gubmint bureaucracy and monopolistic corporations in the hands of a few getting in the way and gumming up the works.. the globalist fascism model.. If the free market ruled there would be more refineries, and suppliers with tanker trucks would be racing each other to Forida..

        Liked by 2 people

      • Joel says:

        The end point stations are run by people. All of those have to make the decision work or go home and prepare. You the owner won’t pay double overtime for those staying to work, because gouging laws won’t let you raise prices to cover you cost. Thanks for nothing, Bondi .

        Liked by 3 people

    • MM says:

      Are you close to any farms, if so most of us have fuel on hand. Diesel most definitely but some have both diesel and gas.

      Liked by 1 person

    • WVPatriot says:

      sundance, could the gasoline in these stations be ear-marked for use of emergency, fire and law enforcement, electrical restoration sub-contractor vehicles?

      Liked by 1 person

    • nimrodman says:

      “Does anyone have specific institutional or industry knowledge that can help me understand this logistical void of such an essential need?”

      I don’t have that knowledge, but 2 things occur to me:

      -1- First-hand reports such as yours should get to FEMA and Governor with a bullet, both to rectify the coming difficulty you envision and also as a lesson that massive fuel prep is needed next time. I’m presuming that CERT team you mentioned means you’re tied into that network and they’ll listen to you up the chain.

      -2- At some point, it’d be good if PresTrump, FEMA, State officials, and gasoline captains of industry were all in a room to strategize solutions (and maybe knock a couple heads if appropriate).

      Again, that would require that PresTrump and FEMA have heightened awareness of the seriousness of this particular aspect of disaster management.

      Small aside – I was only listening with half an hear, but I thought I saw some assistant briefer at Gov’s press conference Saturday saying there were tons of gas stations with gas. Maybe he was talking Miami area.

      Like

    • millwright says:

      SD: There’s a Fed Reg requiring all onshore deliveries of fuel be made by U.S. Flagged vessels . POTUS Trump suspended that requirement ( so I’ve read ) ! But between cup and lip there’s ample room for fed bureaucratic moles to use their powers to delay any such action in your time-critical situation !

      Stay safe Boss !

      Liked by 2 people

    • SD I worked at a petrol station at the time of Cyclone Yasi in Queensland Australia.
      As the cyclone was approaching, all employees were given the option of staying away from work to prep their homes. I was the only employee to stay and work as my home was on high ground and in no danger of flooding (though my 10 acre paddocks ended up under 2m of flood water).
      I worked for over 16 hours straight. When customers ceased coming in, I locked up and went home myself.

      Fuel is delivered by tanker trucks. I wonder if fuel companies ceased deliveries for fear their trucks would end up stranded there for days on end. Insurance may have something to do with it as well.
      An enquiry is a must once the dust settles.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Eric C. says:

      I know for fires in CA we filled up the fire engine right off a tanker at the base camp or sometimes at a designated site closer to the fire.

      I don’t see why there couldn’t be mobile fueling locations. You need to allow some profit. If a guy wants to buy a truck load of fuel and set up at a closed gas station there’s needs to be the ability to profit (not “gouge”) for their risk.

      i understand about the logistics of keeping a bunch of gas stations open in an area that’s suppose to be evacuated as well as delivering to a bunch of locations, cut out the middle man and have 1 larger tanker do mobile fueling. Fuel should get to those gas sations so they have fuel when they re-open and there should be mobile fueling options.

      If it’s predictable, it’s preventable.

      Liked by 1 person

    • oldiadguy says:

      Your frustration is understandable considering the situation. The answer to the question may just be that there weren’t enough tanker trucks available to keep up with the demand. The number of tanker trucks available is set by the normal demand of the local fuel distribution network. You can only make so many deliveries with a finite number of tankers and those deliveries will be made on the routes of the evacuation.

      There is no fleet of backup fuel tankers and drivers available in the numbers needed. Even if they used tanker trucks from other states, they would have had to come from hundreds of miles away so as not to hinder delivery to states receiving the evacuees.

      It is a bad situation and one that is not likely to improve once Irma leaves.

      Take Care and stay safe

      Liked by 2 people

    • Orygun says:

      It is extremely frustrating dealing with people who won’t help themselves. They just expect everyone else to look out for them.

      f you have storms and power outages you should prepare for them to occur and not just bury your head. We have severe ice storms nearly every winter and you just have to make sure you have alternate heat and a power generator(if you can afford it). Topping off your fuel tanks during these periods is just common sense.

      People deal with fires, tornadoes, slides, ice storms, volcanoes and hurricanes in their own unique way. Their are people who take responsibility for the outcome of their actions and people who are always looking for the party to blame.
      Stay safe!

      Like

    • Covfefe-USA says:

      One of the first things I commented about was: why aren’t military convoys setting up temp way stations along that Interstate to refuel all of those vehicles? Also, why wasn’t the opposite direction of that Interstate closed to southbound traffic, so that all lanes were going northward? In times of national emergency, Feds can commandeer all sorts of businesses – so why not take temp possession of certain gas stations so that citizens can re-fuel?

      Like

  11. RedBallExpress says:

    The people at the top are always the last to know. Bush figured out there was a real estate bubble implosion about 2 years after the big bang.

    Like

    • TheLastDemocrat says:

      I can guarantee underlings brought it up….but were disregarded.
      Being a devotee of Biblical wisdom, frankly, is the only path I see. A person who is humble, and is monitoring and second-guessing every word coming out of his or her mouth, would most likely detect a good signal, if elicited

      Liked by 1 person

  12. fade says:

    As someone in Tampa that managed to get to high ground, I know so many that are in bad places but refuse to move. At this point I can only ask for prayers. I’ve never seen such fear or confusion in people before.

    Liked by 9 people

  13. Sunshine says:

    Family spots #parrots seeking shelter from #HurricaneIrma on 22nd floor of #Miami hotel. Photo: Laura Aguiar @ABC #smem #Irma

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Paul Killinger says:

    Good news, bad news…

    The longer this giant storm stays over open water, the more sea water it will pick up and push ahead of it (think Katrina).

    Like

  15. Ploni says:

    Be safe, Sundance, and thank you for ALL of your efforts.

    Liked by 3 people

  16. Harry Lime says:

    This from CBS (September 8th)…partially blaming shortages on Hurricane Harvey and refineries being down in Texas. Not sure I’m buying that but it’s the only excuse I’ve heard so far other than the high demand.

    Liked by 1 person

    • EV22 says:

      Link to read the entire article is below:

      Trump taps emergency U.S. oil reserve after Harvey
      by Matt Egan and Betsy Klein @CNNMoneyInvest August 31, 2017: 2:28 PM ET

      The Energy Department said it will send 500,000 barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to the Phillips 66 (PSX) refinery in Lake Charles, Louisiana.
      ….
      The move is aimed at shielding Americans from higher gasoline prices, which have begun to rise sharply due to a shortage of gasoline caused by refinery shutdowns, port closures and oil production outages.
      ….
      The decision to tap the oil reserve follows the shutdown of the Colonial Pipeline, which normally carries a huge amount of gasoline between Houston and the East Coast. The key pipeline was knocked offline because there isn’t enough gasoline flowing for it to operate.

      Energy Secretary Rick Perry noted the Colonial Pipeline outage is driven by limited gasoline supplies, not damage to the pipeline itself.

      http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/31/investing/strategic-oil-reserve-harvey-trump/index.html

      Liked by 3 people

  17. TreeClimber says:

    I don’t understand, I know Trump is sending National Guard/FEMA to FA ahead of storm, why didn’t they take fuel with them??

    Sundance, is there anything private citizens can do to help? We’re in SE SC, but while some of our local stations are out not all of them are.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jimmy Tets says:

      They DID take fuel with them! On our way out we saw convoys of military tankers headed south on 95. In places it looked like the March on Baghdad…..

      Liked by 6 people

      • TreeClimber says:

        I stand corrected, hadn’t heard anything about those. Seemed like common sense to me, couldn’t think why POTUS hadn’t ordered it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Alison says:

        Sundance I empathize with, and understand your frustration, which must be felt by many who have been stymied by attempts to flee.

        The only press conference I watched with Gov Scott was two days ago. He mentioned repeatedly being aware of the gas shortages & working to resolve it. I cannot remember if that was still when the main hurricane track was estimated on east coast.

        I realize how frustrating & dangerous it is to have evacuations limited by lack of gas. At the same time I can’t imagine the difficulty for the logistical operations when the tracking changed so many times, and the consequences of not evacuating the right areas would be so catastrophic in terms of lives.

        We cannot forget this is an event unlike we’ve ever experienced, in rapid succession to another record-breaking catastrophic event in Texas. Whether that negatively impacted the gas deliveries to Florida remains a supply vs logistical question. I thought the US has a sustantial gas reserve that is available for just such an event, & I fail to see how price or supply manipulation should factor into it, although I can understand where physical delivery problems could exist.

        I am not pointing finger at Florida residents, nor do I expect gov’t to function perfectly in such ambiguous path prediction accuracy.

        It is akin to forest fires in Colorado where all good intentions are to predict & evacuate the modeled paths, only to have winds or low/high pressure systems change the course of a raging fire within minutes.

        In many cases our complacency gets the best of us. It seems a no-brainer in Florida at the start of annual hurricane season, to not only purchase a generator, a prep supply kit, and extra gasoline (safely stored) , but to stock a pantry & draft a list of priority items to take if evacuated, as well as required practice prep for your residence escapes most of our priorities once danger is in rear view mirror.

        Such a no-brainer exists in CO for those in high risk fire areas. Neighbors band together, work with community/rural fire departments, and neighbors to prepare to evacuate. I can assure you, however, if entire state had to evacuate based on ever changin models, chaos $ frustration eould ensue.

        Gov’t cannot possibly be 100% correct, nor can it be solely responsible for inevitable snafus. I can guarantee President Trump will feel he doid not ultimately succeed in keeping many people save once they review “lessons learned” & hold a candid assessment of areas where citizens were not adequately served or inadvertently placed in harm’s way.

        Liked by 3 people

        • NickD says:

          As far as gasoline reserves in the US…they’re practically nonexistent! I say “practically” because there may be scattered and tiny reserves at refineries or distribution points, but there’s no gasoline equivalent of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (600-700 million barrels of oil stored in salt caves across coastal Texas and LA). Plus, there would be no excess gasoline production in the last few weeks thanks to Harvey; that storm put 22% of US refining capacity offline, IIRC, and even if those refineries weren’t damaged per se, many were shut down or were flooded and need time to get back to full production.

          So, add that to the rush to supply the middle of the Peninsula and SE Florida (Miami etc) and you have compounding, exponential levels of FUBAR for SW Florida

          Liked by 1 person

        • elleb77 says:

          As a 35 year resident of FL (St. Pete), I know that there are too many dammm people living here. (How many are illegal aliens, I’d like to know). We’re going to have to limit the growth here, or build infrastructure to withstand hurricanes or build ways to get people safely out of here during emergencies.

          God please help the people who didn’t evacuate !

          Liked by 2 people

      • G. Combs says:

        I was out and about this afternoon in North Carolina and saw a Convoy headed south. This was in the Raleigh area so not from Fort Brag.

        Like

  18. Jimmy Tets says:

    Folks, I know for a fact there is some fuel available. Check vehicles left behind! We fueled all our trucks and BOATS. We also stockpiled 50 gal fuel bladders and gas cans for our stay-behinds (Cape Coral).

    Liked by 2 people

  19. starfcker says:

    I am very frustrated tonight. Everyone I know on the East Coast performed brilliantly in this thing. Everything zipped up tight, loads of supplies and fuel, those who need to evacuate left wednesday, and are out of state. But I have loads of friends and family on the west coast as well. I can’t be in two places at one time. They are not nearly as tuned in to the reality of hurricanes. I hope this thing stays way offshore and spares the west coast. They’re not ready. It is fubar. And I’m not particularly optimistic at 1 in the morning on Sunday. Tomorrow is going to be brutal for a lot of people.

    Liked by 9 people

    • chicagodeplorable says:

      Hang in there; we are all praying hard!

      Liked by 5 people

    • donebydesign says:

      There was a run on gas last Sunday in south Brevard. That was SEVEN days before impact.

      Last October, you could buy fuel locally with no issues for Matthew which was
      much more ominous to the east coast than Irma. I feared Matthew (which is not my first hurricane either…)

      Nobody gave a $hit about Matthew until about 48hrs out. Maybe down south it was different for you.

      No disrespect to Sundance, but Irma fuel shortage is partially a media sensation tied to
      Harvey coverage IMO.

      People heeded the governors evac call plus a mixture of panic = fuel shortage.

      Like

  20. All Too Much says:

    Interactive Space view wind map. Tremendous.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. the phoenix says:

    Praying from today’s Liturgy of the Hours
    for Sunday 10 September 2017
    Morning Prayer (Lauds)
    from Psalm 93

    The seas have lifted up, Lord,
    the seas have lifted up their voice;
    the seas have lifted up their pounding waves.
    Mightier than the thunder of the great waters,
    mightier than the breakers of the sea—
    the Lord on high is mighty.

    from Canticle Daniel 3

    Bless the Lord, rain and dew;
    all you winds, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, fire and heat;
    cold and warmth, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, dew and frost;
    ice and cold, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, ice and snow;
    day and night, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, light and darkness;
    lightning and storm-clouds, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, all the earth,
    praise and exalt him for ever.
    Bless the Lord, mountains and hills;
    all growing things, bless the Lord.
    Bless the Lord, seas and rivers;
    springs and fountains, bless the Lord.

    Liked by 8 people

  22. ALEX says:

    It’s heading North West at moment more then North Northwest . I’m staying positive and doing all I can to push it off coast just enough….

    Liked by 2 people

  23. georgiafl says:

    Re: FUEL – Harvey cut Texas fuel refinery output drastically.

    Have they been able to recover normal production?

    Like

    • Kathy says:

      What about fuel stored at the marinas up and down both coasts? Would it be suitable for land vehicles?

      Like

      • millwright says:

        Kathy: Gasoline is gasoline ! All that matters is octane rating ( except for Av-gas) which will run in just about all gasoline vehicles albeit with some performance degradation, i suspect. Same goes for Avtur ( jet fuel) which most diesels will run on ( with the same performance limitations ) . The difficulty is gasoline is “fungible” and deteriorates in long-term storage hence the advent of various retail brands of gasoline preservatives !

        Another issue is the USG mandates. Right about this time the feds require refineries to convert to “winter gas” blends which requires ( per EPA regs ) refinery shutdowns and altering process equipment and performing mandated cleaning . ( At least that was the EPA pogrom dicta when I was visiting refineries . ) Over several decades the “Prog-Elites” have been instrumental in shutting down a lot of domestic refinery capacity , but the advent of more fuel-efficient vehicles was perhaps a more rigorous factor . IAC, refineries don’t store/hoard motor fuels. Their economic models dictate selling fuels as fast as they are made to whoever buys it. All the fuels in those “tanks” you see when driving by a refinery is owned by someone and they’re paying demurrage to the refinery to keep it in store. Motor fuel is a speculator’s market and we can be assured current events in FL are going to drive up the pump prices !

        Liked by 1 person

    • NickD says:

      IIRC, refinery officials put the timeline for restoration to 100% production in terms of weeks, so I think the answer to your question is “no”

      Like

  24. God’s Mercy Love & Grace Sundance…we are standing watch & praying, silently present, listening
    💖🇺🇸💖

    Liked by 7 people

  25. volintn says:

    Sundance, thanks for the nbc2Live. I found it on YouTube…glad to know so I can watch on tv

    Liked by 2 people

  26. ALEX says:

    Key West is about to be reconfigured

    Liked by 1 person

    • Deplorable_Vespucciland says:

      Will be pleasantly surprised if all those bridges in the Keys remain standing.

      Latest vortex from Recon:
      Product: Air Force Vortex Message (URNT12 KNHC)
      Transmitted: 10th day of the month at 4:30Z
      Agency: United States Air Force
      Aircraft: Lockheed WC-130J Hercules with reg. number AF96-5302
      Storm Number & Year: 11 in 2017
      Storm Name: Irma (flight in the North Atlantic basin)
      Mission Number: 29
      Observation Number: 09
      A. Time of Center Fix: 10th day of the month at 4:12:10Z
      B. Center Fix Coordinates: 23°35’N 81°09’W (23.5833N 81.15W)
      B. Center Fix Location: 78 statute miles (126 km) to the SSE (149°) from Key West, FL, USA.
      C. Minimum Height at Standard Level: 2,505m (8,219ft) at 700mb
      D. Estimated (by SFMR or visually) Maximum Surface Wind Inbound: 113kts (~ 130.0mph)
      E. Location of the Estimated Maximum Surface Wind Inbound: 11 nautical miles (13 statute miles) to the ENE (60°) of center fix
      F. Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: From 145° at 110kts (From the SE at ~ 126.6mph)
      G. Location of Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: 15 nautical miles (17 statute miles) to the NE/ENE (56°) of center fix
      H. Minimum Sea Level Pressure: 931mb (27.50 inHg)
      I. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Outside Eye: 8°C (46°F) at a pressure alt. of 3,039m (9,970ft)
      J. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Inside Eye: 17°C (63°F) at a pressure alt. of 3,050m (10,007ft)
      K. Dewpoint Temp (collected at same location as temp inside eye): 15°C (59°F)
      K. Sea Surface Temp (collected at same location as temp inside eye): Not Available
      L. Eye Character: Not Available
      M. Eye Shape & Diameter: Circular with a diameter of 22 nautical miles (25 statute miles)
      N. Fix Determined By: Penetration, Radar, Wind, Pressure and Temperature
      N. Fix Level: 700mb
      O. Navigational Fix Accuracy: 0.02 nautical miles
      O. Meteorological Accuracy: 1 nautical mile

      Remarks Section:
      Maximum Flight Level Wind: 110kts (~ 126.6mph) which was observed 15 nautical miles (17 statute miles) to the NE/ENE (56°) from the flight level center at 4:07:00Z
      Dropsonde Surface Wind at Center: From 165° at 3kts (From the SSE at 3mph)

      Liked by 1 person

  27. dogsmaw says:

    SEL2

    URGENT – IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
    Tornado Watch Number 482
    NWS Storm Prediction Center Norman OK
    1140 PM EDT Sat Sep 9 2017

    The NWS Storm Prediction Center has issued a

    * Tornado Watch for portions of
    East-central and southern Florida Peninsula
    Coastal Waters

    * Effective this from 1140 PM until NOON EDT.

    * Primary threats include…
    A few tornadoes likely

    SUMMARY…The risk for tornadoes should persist throughout this
    morning within the intermediate and outer bands of Hurricane Irma.

    The tornado watch area is approximately along and 50 statute miles
    east and west of a line from 30 miles north of Melbourne FL to 35
    miles east southeast of Marathon FL. For a complete depiction of the
    watch see the associated watch outline update (WOUS64 KWNS WOU2).

    PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS…

    REMEMBER…A Tornado Watch means conditions are favorable for
    tornadoes and severe thunderstorms in and close to the watch
    area. Persons in these areas should be on the lookout for
    threatening weather conditions and listen for later statements
    and possible warnings.

    &&

    OTHER WATCH INFORMATION…This tornado watch replaces tornado
    watch number 481. Watch number 481 will not be in effect after
    1140 PM EDT.

    AVIATION…Tornadoes and a few severe thunderstorms with hail
    surface and aloft to 0.5 inches. Extreme turbulence and surface wind
    gusts to 50 knots. A few cumulonimbi with maximum tops to 500. Mean
    storm motion vector 09050.

    …Grams

    Liked by 2 people

    • Texian says:

      You see that small group of atolls just west of the Keys.. that happens to be Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas.. [my pinpoint long range forecast of first U.S. land fall that I predicted a little over a week ago].

      Like

  28. Ed. says:

    It all comes down to economics.
    Only 2 percent of gas stations are owned by the companies that make the gas. And about half of all gas stations are under some type of exclusive contract with a producer. That leaves slightly less than half of the stations to find fuel on the open market.
    A large cost of gas is in the storage of it once it is made, so refineries make only what they can sell, with a small reserve for the open market, where pricing is competitive.
    Then there is the transportation of the fuel, and since the average gas station gets one delivery a day, from one of their own trucks, the refinery, or a contracted third party shipper routes are laid out according to need. That leaves few empty trucks sitting around that can fill in in a pinch. An extra load going to Florida is a load not going to Alabama, and an empty gas station for every truck diverted. Contracted stations likely have some written guarantee so that leaves less than half the trucks to be diverted. Or does it? The problem is that the price of gas fluctuates so much that most of the large independent gas station chains buy gasoline futures to lock in the price. So the refineries must deliver the fuel or face a penalty.

    The only solution that would have worked was to give the other gas stations an incentive to close their pumps so the fuel could be diverted. But that ship has sailed.

    Like

  29. JM Covfefe says:

    This seems like an appropriate place for this. For YEARS I have wanted a diesel vehicle. But, unless I get a dually pickup, there are not many good options, and I still have a gasoline SUV.

    Gasoline SUCKS! It is dangerous to store, and goes bad in a few months. I have 120gal in the garage, and it scares me. Thus, subject to weekly supply/demand equation.

    OTOH, I have 850gal of diesel/heating oil in the basement, and another 550 storage outside I can fill if needed. I heat with #2, and use it in my generator when off grid. It is very safe stuff, very hard to ignight. And if you run it through a filter once a year, it will last decades.

    Best part, since I have big tanks, I buy diesel late OCT/NOV, when it is cheap, have an account same as the ga stations cuz I can take 500g+ delivery.

    Take away: if FL PEPs had diesel cars/SUV’s, could keep diesel in 50gal drums in garage safely, and could use cheap plastic tanks for evac.

    Please, more people demand diesel vehicles in US.

    Liked by 1 person

    • G. Combs says:

      I LOVE Diesels. Two of my pick-ups are diesel and one has a 100 gal aux tank in the back.

      We have a couple of bumming-around-the-farm trucks that are gas but our work horses are diesel.

      If I were you I would look at the used truck market.

      I saw a 1982(?) VW diesel mini-pickup on the road today. I had one and loved it but it managed to get crunched and totalled in the Boston MA area. Sucker got 50 MPG!

      Liked by 1 person

      • G. Combs says:

        I think the problem with diesel is they last and last and last….
        The car salesman I bought my 1992 from (a former truck driver) asked the Dodge management if they were going to provide a glider package for the Cummins engine at the meeting where they were introducing the new diesel Dodge truck. He knew the engine would out last the body. I have a 1/2 million miles on my baby. At this point I really really would like to get that glider package (New body to drop old engine into.)

        Liked by 1 person

    • Orygun says:

      That eliminates not being able to store gasoline in tanks and the introduction of alcohol just made the mileage worse and had the nasty side effect of ruining all my small engine devices(chainsaws, lawnmowers, etc.).
      There is a reason the Europeans use diesels. At the start of WW2 all of the Sherman tanks powered by gas went up like rolling bombs until our government figured that out.
      Don’t get me started on diesels. No serious working vehicle is gas.
      You can store it and it is safer to have on hand.

      Like

  30. millwright says:

    Bah ! I associate diesels with work , ( and I’m retired ) !! Yeah there’s a lot of “pluses” to a diesel TBS, but an almost equal number of minuses for many ! I love my Lincoln Conti with its smooth QUIET performance and agile throttle response ! Nor does it “stink of diesel ” like my rich uncle’s Mercedes ! ( And my Continental would leave his Merc in my dust, too ! ) Not “anti-diesel” but at my “three score and ten ” plus i don’t want or need anything that might outlast me !

    Liked by 2 people

    • wondering999 says:

      Yes, millwright, the SMELL of diesel. My kids used to get “bus-sick” (version of carsick) when they’d go on school field trips. The diesel smell is very repellent, even though it’s efficient. I guess I’d like to have two cars: one for regular, one for backup. But then there’s more insurance and space etc.

      Like

  31. jeans2nd says:

    Re: gas shortages – for future consideration – def NOT now – consider development of the Stirling engine. It is already being used in high-tech racing engines. http://sterlingperformance.org/engines/

    Stirling engines are not economically feasible at present for cars, and only rarely for buildings. With research and improvements, though, they could be. The thermodynamics are sound. Given the heat available in Fla, Stirling engines could be an ideal fit (gson’s project is development for Stirlings to run on cold).

    Non-stop prayers and love continue for all your safety.

    Like

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