Republican Factions Continue Healthcare Infighting…

In the largest measure, the basic problem is in 2009 Harry Reid passed the ObamaCare legislation in the Senate with 60 votes.  The House then passed the exact same bill, and the Democrats moved to immediate reconciliation to remove the House concerns (Gator-Aid, Cornhusker Kickback, Louisiana Purchase etc.).

In 2017 the Republican congress are attempting to repeal and replace that ObamaCare legislation with only 52 Senate votes available, well, maybe.

Unfortunately for the GOP there are not even 52 votes for repeal.  Portman, Thune, Collins, Murkowski, Graham, McCain, Blunt, Cochran, Cornyn, Hatch, McConnell and others, are not necessarily on board; that’s 11. (Leaving only 41).

No amount of byzantine rule changes surrounding “reconciliation” are going to overcome that factual vote hurdle.  In 2009 Senator Reid started with 60 votes.  In 2017 Senator McConnell starts with 52.

So anything coming from the House of Representatives has to keep this reality in mind.  Even if support or opposition is based on ideological principle, it still has to pass – or it’s moot.

There’s no doubt the Paul Ryan proposal holds the worst U.S. CoC aspects demanded by Tom Donohue.  Heck, Donohue poured a lot of lobbying money into the entire architecture in ’09/’10 and he’s paid republicans in congress hundreds of millions to make sure his interests in keeping ObamaCare around are protected.  Ryan is big GOPe and he’s supported by the Big Club.

And, as much as Paul Ryan is beholden to Donohue to retain some form of ObamaCare, so too are the Rand Paul / Ted Cruz types paid by billionaires like Cary Katz (Conservative Review); who want an abject repeal without compromise.

Everyone has a financial agenda, and almost every large website and media outlet on the conservative side of the equation has financial underwriting determining their projected position.  The scope of their financial leverage in direct proportion to the severity of their opposition or support of ObamaCare.

The Conservative Review is on one ideological billionaire side.  Salem Media Communications is on another.  Money, not moral or guiding principle, is really the driving force within these media-promoted arguments.

CTH has no financial interest at all.  None. We’re structurally and ideologically ambivalent to the outcome and simply choose to look at the entire situation from a perspective of politics.  What can be reasonably expected to happen; what cannot happen; and how will any chosen direction influence the future stakes and bigger picture.

One of the best examples of the politics can be highlighted in a recent interview with Senator Rand Paul where he is promoting his bill as an option.

As you watch the interview remember Rand Paul has no co-sponsors, because he’s all alone.  Listen carefully to him explain that his job is not to advance legislation that can pass, but rather to advance legislation that he alone is able to believe in.

Signals that people avoid:

♦ Rand Paul’s bill has no republican co-sponsors.  Why Not? He doesn’t even try to make it appear he can get to 51 votes, let alone 60 votes.

♦ Rand Paul essentially admits his bill has no-chance of passage; and his argument is that it’s better than the alternative.

♦ Rand Paul falsely claims in 2015 the Senate repealed ObamaCare.  They didn’t. It’s just simply a false statement. The senate passed a bill that defunded ObamaCare using reconciliation.  They offered no alternative accompanying bill, and Obama vetoed it.

♦ Additionally, […] The 149 page Paul bill also would create a health insurance tax credit against payroll taxes. From what I read about it on http://drugguardians.com, the new credit is complicated, but its general effect is straightforward. It offsets payroll tax liability, while the new deduction reduces income tax liability. The credit is thus especially valuable to workers with modest wages, since they often pay more in FICA taxes than in income taxes.

If the bill stopped there, it would consist largely of conservative staple. But there’s a twist: These new tax provisions do not replace the Obamacare refundable credits. Paul’s tax breaks would exist side-by-side with Obamacare’s.  (continue reading)

(Secretary Price and Speaker Ryan’s Plan)

I really think Joninmd22 hits the key points in this comment:

The Constitutionalists’ argument that we should not be perpetuating an entitlement is sound. However the battle over Health Care being a right was lost with the McCain campaign for President in 2007.  As a matter of fact that position was not even defended by the nominee.

That doesn’t mean that the arguments for the free market were not sound nor put out by conservatives nor did they lack in their passion. That doesn’t mean that the battle cannot be re-fought at some time in the future after the Trump Administration’s economic growth and government reforms start to wean people away from welfare.

If you make the American electorate choose the free market or dependency cold turkey today they will vote democrat in millions in 2018 and 2020.

This is the reality we’re in not the world we’d like to be in. Now you can continue on this march to defeat the Trump Administrations repeal and Reform plan but consider the consequences.

If this current plan goes down now they’ll have to put up a replacement. Senator’s Cotton and Senator Paul are both well meaning gentleman but…  They Don’t Have 60 Votes In The Senate. [Heck, they don’t even have 51]

There it is, like it, lump it ,or build a shed around it these bills will not pass. Which 8 democrats will crossover to deconstruct a government entitlement?

Consider how the democrats will use your defeat to gain seats in 2018?

Where that leaves Constitutionalists is either they can continue the banzai charge to defeat… Or work to make the Ryan bill better.

Now to the those supporting the Ryan Plan.. It sucks.

Written in secret and loaded down with contradictions it does represent an Insurance companies wish list in many aspects.

Supporters of Ryancare should adopt a more conciliatory tone and start working with Constitutional critics. Crafting and moving legislation Isn’t a my way or the highway proposition, nor are all critics closed minded Constitutional zealots.

Take the weekend all; and consider what will occur if we work together. Neither side can get it all but the Democrats are the big winners if we don’t work together. ~link~

The President supports the proposed path.  HHS Secretary supports the proposed path.  The Speaker of the House supports the proposed path.  The Senate Majority Leader supports the proposed path.

Republicans really need to learn how to govern.

Or else, Trump will be facing Democrats’ in oppositional control of at least one house of the legislative branch of government.

Then again, maybe that’s really what congress wants.

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This entry was posted in Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Donald Trump, Election 2016, Legislation, media bias, Mike pence, Mitch McConnell, Notorious Liars, Obamacare, Paul Ryan, Predictions, President Trump, Professional Idiots, propaganda, Rand Paul, Typical Prog Behavior, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

279 Responses to Republican Factions Continue Healthcare Infighting…

  1. sundance says:

    Liked by 39 people

  2. NJF says:

    Grrrr. The sentence is likely the real answer.

    However, I’m gonna let “Trump be Trump” and keep the faith.

    Liked by 7 people

    • wolfmoon1776 says:

      Assume that Trump has an excellent strategy. That has ALWAYS worked for me. And the longer it takes me to figure it out, the more “magnificent, inglorious bastard” it always is.

      Liked by 21 people

    • whoseyore says:

      Write to him….tell him how you feel. Send him articles from Sundance to warn him. I do all of the time. If he is picking up the phone for Sen. Manchin, why wouldn’t he read our letters with his toast and orange juice in the morning?

      https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact#page

      Liked by 7 people

      • SandraOpines says:

        I wrote to the White House and said the GOP needs to be thrown in a room and demand that they produce something that they can win with. They don’t need to be on vacation for most of the month of April.

        I was professional in what I wrote but let the record reflect that I am PO’d that the R politicians can’t figure out how to work together and produce something everyone can live with.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Ray Titus says:

        Good idea, although I doubt he has time to read all the letters that go to him. My guess is that he, like most busy people, has someone read them and either give him an overview of the highlights of all of them or they give him a few choice ones they choose for him to see and the rest go to file 13. I’m not saying we shouldn’t write. I think we should. But I also think we need to be realistic and understand that even if only 1/100th of 1% of the 60 million supporters he had in the election write to him, that’s still 6000 letters and I know of no one, let alone the most powerful man in the world who only sleeps 3 or 4 hours a night, that has time to add reading all that to his schedule.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Sevenwheel says:

          Zillions of people click on petitions and send form letters, but very few people go to the trouble of sending a postal letter. Especially a hand-written letter. If you sit down and hand-write a short letter with your concerns, those get the most attention of all. One page or less. Polite and concise. Traditional letter form. Neat printing. The President may not read it but his advisors will.

          Liked by 2 people

        • trumpsbamagirl says:

          In 1983 I was 11 years old and my Army officer father received orders for an accompanied tour in Seoul, South Korea. My father went ahead and my mother, brother and I waited for our passports, visas and paperwork to be approved. Four months passed and we were still waiting.

          I wrote President Reagan a letter on notebook paper explaining the situation. (I was quite the Daddy’s girl then and still am!)

          Within a week my father received a call from the White House (in the middle of the night Korea time!) and a few days later not only was our paperwork approved, I was on a plane to be reunited with my Dad!

          Being from Alabama, my family was staunch Carter supporters as they saw the world as Southern vs. Yankees- Yankees being everyone NOT from the South! Needless to say, President Reagan became my hero.

          Now I know the President did not read my letter personally. However, he had people on his staff who not only did read it, but took it seriously and took action to help a little girl be with her Dad.

          I believe President Trump continues this tradition.

          Liked by 3 people

  3. Sentient says:

    How are we going to get to the point where the price is the price without regard to whether one has insurance or not?

    Liked by 5 people

    • Old fogey says:

      Price is the crux of the matter. If the cost is reasonable then most of us would only need catastrophic insurance coverage, which would be much lower. How to cover the sickly poor? That is the really difficult part, as it seems as if no one believes that charitable contributions can do the job they used to be able to do, since taxes deplete private resources and people have grown accustomed to the government controlling everything. Is the best bet for them for the government to expand and improve oversight of Medicaid?

      Liked by 2 people

      • Ziiggii says:

        “Price” is phase 3

        Liked by 3 people

      • Jenny Hatch says:

        No replacement!

        Just repeal and let the Free Market sort it out.

        I do not believe any taxpayer dollars should be used in the health care business.

        All monies currently being used for the CDC, the FDA, and Medicare and Medicaid should be block granted to the states and the whole allopathic behemoth put at the mercy of the market.

        Let consumers decide what stays and what goes as we phase out Social Security and allow young people to set up their own tax free Health Savings Accounts and Retirement Funds.

        Healthcare costs would come tumbling down and fraud would diminish.

        Jenny Hatch
        http://www.JennyHatch.com

        Liked by 5 people

        • Maquis says:

          Can’t be done. You know that. So, I’d ask what your game is, but your ridiculous stirring of the pot already makes your game crystal clear.

          Repeal cannot happen, will not happen, and is a mere bright shiny object to distract and divide the most moronic governing body this side of a Mel Brooks comedy. Also to turn us against each other, and empower the Left.

          Sundance has explained this incredibly well, there’s no reason to pretend you know better except that you are a troll.

          Paid or no, you are playing a fools game in order to bring down our Republic by empowering downright evil people to destroy our only hope out of this Leftist Death Spiral.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Trumpedinillinos says:

            Thank you! If these people would stop acting like libs and read and think critically instead of emotionally, they wouldn’t write such ridiculous things here. For the umpteenth time: EVEN IF EVERY REPUBLICAN VOTED FOR REPEAL , IT COULDN’T PASS! THEY WOULD NEED 60 VOTES TO DO THAT.

            Liked by 2 people

        • Peter says:

          There are a lot of Jenny Hatch’s – they all believe in fairy dust.

          Arguing for 2030 policy , in 2017.

          Take the first step, work on the fairy dust later – and thank god Hillary didn’t get elected or you would have nutin.

          Like

        • Don’t let yourself be discouraged by the self appointed hall monitors. I agree that government has NO BUSINESS being involved in our healthcare.

          Liked by 4 people

          • Oldschool says:

            Absolutey Jenny. Many here start calling you names or tell you that you don’t understand just because you don’t agree with them. They act just like obama when he was shoving his healthcare down our throats. It was great, we HAD to do it, we were just too stupid to understand. When ANYONE acts like that, they have lost me. Speak of fairy dust? You are believing in Ryan and passing legislation in 3 phases?

            Liked by 3 people

        • joninmd22 says:

          Did you actually read the article and my comment?

          If you cut people off of a welfare program it gives democrats an overwhelming theme to their 2018 campaign. It’s taken 100 years of getting people hooked incrementally to greater welfare and government control of their lives and cutting them off cold turkey will be a disaster. Most will not be able to consider existing outside of the existing paradigm.

          Then where will your free market kamikazi flight leave us?

          Incremental change over decades, creating jobs, giving inner city residents an escape from hopelessness, improving lives over decades will get you to where you want to go.

          Liked by 4 people

        • quintrillion says:

          The federal bureaucrats would never give up being in the crooked insurance fraud business.

          Like

    • tellthetruth2016 says:

      I still want to just CRY when I look back at what the Demon Rats and Supreme court DID to us as a people and American citizen of a free country with our HealthCare and just shoved it down our throats yet, thought they were better than us “deplorables” and voted themselves out of this “deplorable” law because they knew just how bad it was …..

      Liked by 2 people

      • Frankly Ben says:

        It’s discouraging but isn’t it absolutely great that millions upon millions of us have stood up against the slanderous, hateful media and lifted Trump into office?

        And it wasn’t just Trump. The dims were salivating at the idea of retaking the senate and maybe even the house.

        We put the brakes to all that. But reversing direction of a train hurtling toward the cliff is a different thing than stopping it.

        Please be of good cheer, have patience. President Trump is a hard-nosed realist. He will engage as many levers of change as he can – and there are so many. I just saw a Drudge headline that China is building a space-based laser weapon.

        We’re in a marathon, not a sprint. We have, hopefully, eight years for Trump to implement his battle plan. We deplorables aren’t going anywhere and as Trump gets his tax plan, regulatory reform plan, energy production plan, inner city revitalization plan and his other efforts in place – including the best deal he cobble together on healthcare reform – as the US economy unleashes as it did in the 1980’s his popularity will increase and we’ll be on our way!

        Liked by 3 people

        • Bob Kalle says:

          Reading all the comments. I do hae my trust in Trump, I think he is being guided. My solution would be to put all politicians on the same plan as us with no subsidies, they would fix it in a heartbeat.

          Liked by 1 person

    • Gail says:

      There are other options.

      I believe that this debate will open up more alternatives to this mess of ACA. I, for one, resent the government telling me I have to buy into a failed disease management system. To even suggest that the current system is in any way, shape or form “healthcare” is absurd. Most chronic diseases are preventable. But that would put the Medical/Pharmaceutical cartel out of business.

      As a currently retired chiropractor of over 30 years, I saw the writing on the wall when ACA was announced. I don’t have the energy to go into my personal beliefs in depth at the moment. But, just the confidentiality issues alone were abhorrent to me.

      I have personally chosen to not comply at all, so I get the repeal position. However I thank Sundance for the explanation of why it has to be done in stages.

      I haven’t seen anyone here mention Health Shares. They have been around for a long time and are compliant with the ACA in it’s current form. This group of treepers, in particular, would be a perfect fit for this option. They are Christian based health share groups where everyone pays their monthly share and it goes to someone who is in need. It is accepted by most doctors just like an insurance plan.

      That share is a FRACTION of what people are being gouged with now. Here is a link for just one of them that I looked into. There are different levels of coverage to choose from depending on your situation. For me as as single person the monthly share was only $200 a month! Take a look to see what it can do for you. Google other health share groups to compare.

      https://www.libertyhealthshare.org/

      Then just the other day I happened to see a Hannity show that had 2 MD’s who have a practice, like a medical co-op, where adults pay $50/month and children $10/month for unlimited care. Xrays and a few other things would be additional, but affordable to everyone. Here is that segment:

      Let me finish by telling you that there are many direct to patient labs available now. You do not need a doctor’s “approval” to order lab tests, saving you another office visit charge, and they are much much cheaper than ordering through your MD. If you know how to interpret your results it would be a great option. ( Caveat- Do Not think that just because the results fall in the “Normal” column that is all you need to know. There is an art to interpretation that sadly most doctors have lost.) Most will give you a superbill to submit to your insurance for reimbursement.

      One example: a practitioner charges the patient under $200 for a full panel of tests, the lab, Labcorp, charges $1100 for the exact same tests. Increase of 500+%.

      I hope this will help some of you get truly better care, affordably.

      Liked by 3 people

      • law4lifeblog says:

        These plans still mean that members need some catastrophic coverage, which ObungoCare killed. Needs to be fixed to allow for market-driven products….

        Like

      • Jenny Hatch says:

        Thanks for your comment Gail.

        Your profession has been a great example of what a free market health care system could look like.

        Patients determine the level of care they want and pay out of pocket for it.

        The big pharma big insurance game comes tumbling down and consumers are freed to choose the type of care they need for each issue.

        Like

  4. He readily admits the bill won’t pass. What is the value in being right and losing the war.

    Liked by 9 people

    • wolfmoon1776 says:

      Absolutely agreed.

      Stalincare, created in deceit that was nearly a century in the making (from Stalin’s rise to Obama’s 60-vote trickery), will die in cunning strategy that will take a few years. Those who want swift victory with no real fight are led to slaughter.

      Think WWII. We had strategy, and we won unconditionally, but it took YEARS. It is the same here. Reversing Obama’s medical socialism is going to take brains, cunning, effort and dedication.

      Here’s my challenge. If we haven’t even figured out what is going to be our Manhattan Project which changes our healthcare forever, and makes socialize medicine utterly irrelevant, then we haven’t even begun the real war effort. And I don’t think that just allowing insurance across state borders is enough to do that. That’s not sufficiently revolutionary. There needs to be some new concept that just outmodes everything that we’ve been doing up until now. And since we don’t have that in hand and proven, then I think Trump is right. PLAN OUR WIN. Don’t be greedy and foolish.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Ziiggii says:

        And the first thing that happened was Normandy!

        I get it now – this bill is Normandy. We just have to face the fact that there WILL be lose… in this battle. But there is much more of the war that needs to be fought. Years!

        Liked by 1 person

        • wolfmoon1776 says:

          Exactly. You get it.

          The Dems are trying to get us to launch the Spanish Armada. The Randers are saying parachute into Berlin and capture Hitler, and even if we fail as planned, use that loss to launch a second invasion. Well, that’s not how wars work. WWII vs. Iraq is an excellent example of the difference between a strategy which understands psychology and one that does not.

          We have belittled Obamacare for years, and done ourselves a disservice by thinking it’s less of a monster than it really is.

          We can win this, but I think we need to listen to our Patton. I am deadly serious about that. I want to live – without Obamacare – and I think Trump is the only person who will get us home. Trump is the most military minded, strategic president (without being diabolical) that we have had since Eisenhower. I say follow his lead.

          Liked by 4 people

  5. David says:

    I don’t think Trump will be ok on punishing people who can’t afford to pay for a couple of months with a 30% penalty that can be around $1500. I just think it will either be reduced or deleted.

    Liked by 3 people

    • mike says:

      We both deal with serious cancer cases. We don’t want crummy insurance that is “merely” a drain of precious dollars that doesn’t buy much except what “they” are pushing. We pay hard cash.

      We found inexpensive supplements in the US and cheap generic drugs overseas, the important one not FDA approved – yet cheaper, better and nicer than anything in the US. We use inexpensive facilities for competitively priced, high quality scans and pay real cash prices.

      We spend a few hundred dollars a month, total on average, “Normal” families would bill out at over $100,000 per month and probably average $$2000 copays + various out of pocket or more, and then the high premiums (we’re 60s). With forced Obamacare, one of us would be dead and the other, broke.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Larry Bates says:

        My wife and I would both be dead had we taken your advice, as would millions of other Americans. American health care is expensive but it works, and you don’t need to wait for months to get access to it.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Bingo. Once again, I point out that INSURANCE is expensive, because CARE is expensive.

          You CANNOT insure people to use an expensive service, (without limits) cheaply, whether it be an D plan or a R plan.

          Why is health CARE expensive? Because it is people-intensive. It requires the participation of many high-skilled people. It cannot be automated or outsourced. It cannot be made in China and imported.

          Unless we tackle the issue of health CARE cost, all of this is just shuffling chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Sentient says:

            There’s no reason to accept the status quo where a drug sells for $10 in Canada or Germany and $100 here. Allow reimportation and OUR price drops overnight – to the point where reimportation isn’t even necessary so long as the threat of reimportation is credible.

            Like

          • mike says:

            Actually we want a choice on limits and coverage. We do not want to subsidize failing or ripoff medical schemes, like the Medical Industrial complex of today.

            Various mainstream medical failures have made us more self reliant and careful comparison shoppers.

            Like

          • Jedi9 says:

            Exactly! I have been saying it for years, even before Obozo came along. Remember Hillary when she and Bill tried to get something done along the lines of nationalized healthcare and ultimately failed? What some people don’t realize, and I say some because a lot of people are waking up from their TV induced comas to be more informed of the truth, is that the Insurance and healthcare industry is driven by greed, and they have had the politicians in the pocket for a very long time. It is for this reason that both industries not only enjoy a semiotic relationship, but have a monopoly on the overall issue of healthcare. This issue of cost is more sinister, and more entrenched in the bowels of corruption within our Government and corporate Oligarchy then most people care to admit.
            First and foremost the cost issue has to be addressed first before any health care plan can be enacted! Any attempt at fixing it by the way that most of our representatives are falsely propagandizing for (See Ryan) is more of the same Rob Peter to pay Paul scheme!

            Like

            • Yikes. Health care costs are driven by greed? Really?

              I think you missed my point, which was that any service that is people intensive, rather than automated, will cost more. An even more if high skills and advanced educated is required.

              That is not greed.

              Like

              • Jedi9 says:

                It is driven by greed, regardless if iservices required is people intensive. I think you ignoring the entire argument I made, a healthcare plan based on free market competition in which costs have to be addressed first is completely off base. The greed part comes from our elected officials doing nothing because they are appeasing their sponsors which is the Insurance companies, which is a fact are the biggest lobbyist in Washington. First watch the video to see my point before outright dismissing my point of view on this. I am not the only one who is talking about this either.

                Like

              • Jedi9 says:

                Oh and BTW, just to be clear what it was in your statement I agreed with, was almost everything you said and …

                “Unless we tackle the issue of health CARE cost, all of this is just shuffling chairs on the deck of the Titanic.”

                If you think it is not based on greed when the industry of health care and Insurance providers have a monopoly, then you are not seeing the real picture here.

                Like

                • A friend’s son is currently in medical school. They are NOT wealthy people. After paying for college, then medical school, then (hopefully) internships and all the costs associated with running a private practice, insurance…etc, etc. It adds up. It is no different than the challenges of running a small business. Charging a price for your service which allows you to recover your costs is NOT greed.

                  Like

        • mike says:

          We get next day medical service, and no begging for medical insurance permission.
          Americans are so used to cattle class and police state treatments now.

          Like

    • Doogiesblog says:

      Will the 30% extra last for one year? Five years? Your life? What if you change healthcare providers? Is there a master book of people who deserve a 30% surcharge because they skipped two payments eight years ago?

      Like

    • Oldschool says:

      Paying 30% for one year is wrong, but is the least of our problems in this “system”.

      Like

    • joninmd22 says:

      This is actually a strong conservative argument. If you keep the pre existing condition coverage element in there has to be some buy in by the patient. What it means is if a person didn’t pay say $300 a month for years then at least they have too take a $900 hit when they get in an accident or cancer diagnosis.

      The insurance company will pay out tens of thousands in the hypothetical patients care. So it’s free market as the patient isn’t compelled to have health insurance, nor does he have to pay a penalty in his taxes. Personal responsibility and consequences are in place.

      We like to criticize insurance companies and they deserve much of it but in this point they are right.

      Liked by 3 people

    • law4lifeblog says:

      David, there HAS to be an incentive to keep continuous coverage..,this is the only way to address the preexisting condition problem. This is what compelled me to keep myself covered my entire life…at one point I paid for COBRA coverage to cover a preexisting condition until the waiting period in my new policy was over. Yes, I paid double for awhile, but I was COVERED. We have to gave incentives for people to make good decisions, rather than the rest of us differ for the bad decisions of a few. Frankly, The Who,e problem of people allegedly too poor to buy health insurance could have been solved by simply putting them on Medicaid and not touching what the rest of us have….nearly as many have LOST usable coverage as have benefitted.

      Like

  6. jackphatz says:

    Total repeal or no deal, anything less is us getting screwed again.

    Liked by 1 person

    • fleporeblog says:

      Problem is you will never get a vote for total repeal because it goes against reconciliation which requires 60 votes in the Senate. The math doesn’t add up. We only have 52.

      Liked by 4 people

      • fleporeblog says:

        Ok lets say they do that and the Democrats all vote it down. We are still on the hook to many Americans that will say we still could do something using reconciliation and moving on from there. People will be paying expanding premiums that will infuriate Americans against Republicans not Democrats because we have the majority in the house and senate and can’t get anything done because of the egos and special interest groups. Sorry but this is a no win situation even taking your advice.

        Liked by 1 person

        • fleporeblog says:

          My point is still the same that R will never agree to get even a reconciliation vote passed because they are so divided putting us back in the same scenario we are currently in. If they can’t see eye to eye now why would they after a full repeal bill that fails because of Democrats.

          I hate to admit but I do agree with your final 2 questions.

          Like

        • In regards to your two questions I must simply say because Uniparty.

          And, here we all are again tonight debating over the least worst tyranny in our “constitutionally based *representative* republic” while musing over what should be done vs what will they do.

          Seriously, it appears we have given up and will allow “them” to rule us in totalitarian fashion. So much for America, land of the free and home of the brave.

          Liked by 1 person

      • lfhbrave says:

        I wonder why they don’t want to force a quite vote for total repeal in both houses since it won’t take that much time (expecting it will be filibustered in the senate) . After it fails in the senate putting on record that Dems vote against repeal, then work on Ryancare and try to make it better. These could also be done simultaneously.

        Like

      • Marc says:

        “We tried guys but those rascally Democrats wouldn’t let us repeal Obamacare”.
        It ain’t gonna fly anymore. The American people won’t accept that excuse any longer. It will blow up in your face because no matter how you look at it, the voters on both sides will see it as Trump/GOPe/Conservative failure. The Dems will be campaigning off “saving Obamacare from tyrannical Trump”.

        Like

    • benifranlkin says:

      Did u read what SD just said? I guess not

      Liked by 1 person

    • Peter says:

      Behind door #1 – total repeal , a complete fraud, can’t be done in this cycle, hello? The pounding sand crowd who believes in fairy dust, but by god they are “right”! Walk backwards as Trump loses the house and senate and you got nutin but the right to bit*h for years to come.

      Behind door #2 – buy insurance across state lines , give power back to the states, begin the 20 year battle for repeal, but get the self employed off Medicare. Baby step #1. Longview. No one gets screwed, it’s just not optimal. But that is what governing feels like. We are so used to losing we think beating our chest and screaming “conservative” or “constitution” is actually winning, it’s not.

      Liked by 3 people

    • MissV says:

      You’re right. But it. can’t. happen.
      Get Behind Trump.

      Liked by 3 people

  7. Ziiggii says:

    YES! This is what I was talking about last night… this is an argument that I can get behind.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. fleporeblog says:

    I am really at a lost with all of this! Personally I don’t have skin in the game because I am employed by the NYCDOE and have great health insurance (anyone wanting to work as a school aide or Para in NYC, let me know I can help you secure a job and get the same benefits I have). However, I am want to see fellow Treepers and fellow Americans that aren’t in my situation and are stuck with the burden of Obamacare get access to great healthcare at the most affordable price.

    I am in favor of the tax credit given to folks that don’t benefit from their employer. I think it is only fair. What happens if at the end of the day it never gets passed? Thankfully our President has taken the burden off of Americans that opt out of Obamacare. However, their are Americans that can’t afford to take the risk of going without insurance. To know that the premiums will be even higher next year would infuriate those folks (many that voted for Trump). I can’t see any good in not doing anything because our side couldn’t put their collective egos to the side in favor of Americans instead of their interest groups. Will Americans that get hurt by keeping it believe that it is the fault of Democrats for why we couldn’t get to 60 votes. Damn that will be a difficult sell.

    I truly envisioned and believed to the core that we would have 60+ R Senators after the 2018 election. There is no way I can see it if in the end we do nothing at all. What a world of difference those scenarios present for our President over the next 6 years of time in the Oval Office. I hate to say it SD but your last sentence seems to be really accurate.

    Liked by 2 people

    • benifranlkin says:

      It won’t work the way u r dreaming. Too many people on it that u just can’t dump with total repeal. That will certainly turn the House and more Senate seats over to the Dems in 2018.

      Liked by 2 people

      • fleporeblog says:

        Great point! I wrote the following in response to Dems B. Dears above

        Ok lets say they do that and the Democrats all vote it down. We are still on the hook to many Americans that will say we still could do something using reconciliation and moving on from there. People will be paying expanding premiums that will infuriate Americans against Republicans not Democrats because we have the majority in the house and senate and can’t get anything done because of the egos and special interest groups. Sorry but this is a no win situation even taking your advice.

        Like

        Like

      • Marc says:

        He’s talking almost entirely of the folks on Medicaid and subsidies. Not all of them are hardcore democrats as some here would like to think.

        Like

    • Agree to disagree again. Repeal of Obamacare is not a zero sum game. Do you really think if the economy is buzzing at 6-8% annual GDP growth, our laws and borders are enforced, crime goes down, and an American first foreign policy is implemented, that Trump would lose reelection simply because he didn’t push for full repeal of Obamacare? I know it was an important issue in the election, but from everything I’ve seen the economy was the biggest driving factor on election day.

      Also, a full repeal just isn’t possible given the legislative makeup of the Senate. Regardless of what we would like to see, we are restricted to the confines of what’s physically possible. It sucks but that’s just the reality we have to deal with.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Beenthere says:

      Yes you do have skin in the game. Not only you but your fellow NYer is sending part of his taxes to pay for your wonderful public employee insurance policy.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. filia.aurea says:

    Paul Ryan is untrustworthy. President Trump wants this bill (in its final form) to pass. Rand Paul and the Freedom caucus will need to chose which parts they absolutely want out, and Paul Ryan will need to slither off his high and mighty horse. There is no “better way” than President Trump’s way. Then we’ll have a bill that will pass. The Secretary DHHS will need to get working double-time on cutting O’Care Regulations, and there is no reason the House can’t start drafting a skeleton bill for Phase III right now.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Marc says:

      You gotta wonder why Rand Paul wasn’t had a meeting with President Trump and hashed out some of this deal. Maybe it’s as Sundance has said. Financial interests are at stake and Rand has to take his cues from the Koch’s. If Joe Manchin can call and talk to Trump then why can’t Tom Cotton, Mike Lee, Dave Brat, or Jim Jordan?

      Liked by 2 people

  10. Truthfilter says:

    Ok I see you’re right that Rand Paul can’t get the votes and has no sponsors. I haven’t read the bill but I heard that it applies only to U.S. Citizens but insurers/employers/enrollers can’t ask for proof of citizenship. This means illegals will continue using the same old methods of forging and recycling fake documents. If Ryan’s bill passes both chambers, can President Trump make changes to it before signing it? If not, does Price have authority to require that enrollees provide proof of citizenship? Can he (at stage 2) require that the e-verify system be implemented so that fake papers are no longer useful or acceptable? These are just some questions I have. At the very least, we should stop giving or subsidizing medical care for illegals.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. dadawg says:

    The Uniparty lives!!!

    Liked by 3 people

  12. 4bleu says:

    LOL. Just realized that I really liked Ryan’s presentation yesterday when he explained the repeal/reconciliation etc. problem, but actually had ‘changed the channel’ when he started his proposal part of it, and didn’t realize until later browsing comments etc. that he’d went on quite a bit with a ‘plan.’
    Everyone should try it. Was very relaxed all day, thought Pres. Trump picked a good presenter to get everyone on the same page, while figuring anything else worth listening to about all this would be coming from POTUS Trump.
    Guess it wasn’t scientific or proper political analysis procedure, but it makes for tranquil thoughts.

    Liked by 5 people

  13. Bubba says:

    Sundance – unfortunately, I fear that your last point was the quite prescient:

    “Or else, Trump will be facing Democrats’ in oppositional control of at least one house of the legislative branch of government. Then again, maybe that’s really what congress wants.”

    Ryan, the COC, the R senators you listed that aren’t necessarily on board, and some others on the R side may not want to repeal/replace Ocare? And, maybe they don’t want to give Trump that achievement? And, maybe they’d be just fine with a 1 term Trump presidency?

    Is their strategy to complicate, bicker, and delay? Are we facing the prospect of being without a health care reform law and without a tax reform law at this time next year?

    Joel Pollack has a good article about at Breitbart. It made me feel better about our prospects, Hope he’s correct.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/09/obamacare-blue-state-blues-art-deal-explains-replacement-debate/

    Liked by 6 people

    • trialbytruth says:

      Yes that was Suprisingly good article

      Liked by 2 people

    • vinchenzer says:

      I posted the same article; I should have read the comments first before posting but it’s probably true what Joel Pollack has stated in that article. You cannot underestimate Trump. Everyone that has, has been destroyed. Hearing much of the phony Trump-Russia-connection nonsense anymore from anyone lately? Lol. He is bold and brilliant.

      Like

    • yohio says:

      If you recall and if I can find Sundance was the first to post and article saying that the Repubs going to fight tooth and nail against repealing Obamacare. He also said Repubs bigger problem then Dems. It was weeks ago when everyone kept presenting in the news Trump was going to get ObamaCare Repealed & Replaced like it was just going to happen. He predicted this mess again

      Liked by 1 person

    • filia.aurea says:

      Then it is time for the Freedom Caucus to actually DO SOMETHING (they’ve passed on two chances) to get Paul Ryan out of the Speaker’s chair.

      Like

  14. trialbytruth says:

    Sundance you must be getting tired of holding all the soft hands here. Your position reminds me of your early posts regarding change agents in organization’s. Thank you as always for doing extraordinary work. My advice to all “dance with the one who brought you”.

    Liked by 10 people

  15. graphiclucidity says:

    They’ll have to come up with something.

    The Trump administration won’t be able to get a decent budget the way they want it if healthcare, and then tax reform, isn’t taken care of first.

    If this keeps up we will end up with continuing resolutions instead of actual budgets for the next two years and Trump will end up running against the entire UniParty Do-Nothing Congress in 2018.

    Clusterf69k meet Wrecking Ball.

    Liked by 1 person

    • You’ve just laid out the plan.

      Uniparty.

      Because… there are trillions at stake for the big f’n club and we ain’t in it.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Oldschool says:

      Bingo. But that is gonna happen with the budget no matter what happens with this mess. If phase one was passed tomorrow, does anyone honestly believe that Ryan and the rest are going to do a 180 and work with him on budget? Against their interests? Trump was weakened when Ryan set the agenda for healthcare first. Part of their plan.

      Liked by 2 people

  16. toriangirl says:

    I say we have us a cage match. Lock them up in the same cage. Winner emerges. Think of the pay per view profits to be had!

    Liked by 1 person

  17. BabyBoomer says:

    I am having a real hard time believing that Trump is truly for Paul Ryan’s plan. Paul is a snake and President Trump know it. Trump, IMHO, is just allowing Paul to have all the rope he wants, watching him run like a cocky monkey with smirks and grins that are the tell-all. President Trump must surely know that Paul Ryan’s plan doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of passing. Trump – the great negotiator – doesn’t mind watching the free for all this is producing and the hangman’s noose waiting for Mr Speaker. Once Paul Ryan’s rope starts to hang wrap around his own neck, he’ll see the writing on the wall as President Trump skillfully negotiates using The Art of the Deal. Thus, two birds with one stone. I’m mixing my Marguerita now.

    Liked by 5 people

    • MissV says:

      You might be right. In fact, that is my scenario of hope playing in my head, as well. But it really doesn’t matter because what really matters is we’ve simply got to line up behind our Pres on this steaming pile of Ryan excrement come Hell or high water lest 2018 be our downfall instead of our triumph.

      As one commenter stated above, this is a marathon; not a sprint. It’s a worthy fight to aim for free market health care but it ain’t happening overnight. Give it decades, perhaps, but then progressivism took a century to poison us all.

      Go for diluting the poison then regurgitate from the system. It’s really our only choice, as much as I hate to say it.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cozette says:

      I believe Trump is defanging smug, “My Better Way” Ryan the same way he handled Romney. It’s fun to watch. Next up will be obstructionist Ryan and his Freedom Caucus who have zero interest in success. But Ryan is up first.

      Liked by 1 person

  18. Garrison Hall says:

    “Portman, Thune, Collins, Murkowski, Graham, McCain, Blunt, Cochran, Cornyn, Hatch, McConnell”

    Each one of these folks is the worst possible example of the kind of UniParty hack who would have been a lot happier if Hillary had won. They are the personification of RINO’s and will be happy to undermine Trump and sabotage his success (that OUR success, folks) in order to support the DC UniParty establishment. Of them all, John Cornyn is probably the worst example of this kind of dishonesty. When he campaigns for office in Texas, he makes sure he sounds like the most anti-gommint rock-ribbed conservative but, when he returns to DC, where he really lives, he reverts to being a true progressive. He happily supported exempting himself and congressional staffers from the rigors of Obamacare even as he keeps the rest of us from getting rid of it. Shame.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Sandra-VA says:

    My husband just told me that part of this plan includes allowing employer based plans to mandate genetic testing along with all the “wellness” crapola. This is absolutely outrageous and an infringement of personal liberty.

    Another peeve that I have, well I have a couple, is that between 50yrs old and retirement age, there is a fivefold increase in premiums – which I have seen evaluated by AARP at around plus $8500 additional cost per year. Not sure if that is correct, but it likely is.

    Truly, I am trying to “like” this Ryan concocted plan, but I am not succeeding. To me, it seems like only the lobbyists are being heard and NOT “We the People”.

    I want my old healthcare plan where I only had to pay $1500 out of pocket before insurance took up the cost. I want to pay the same premiums via employer based plan that we had before ObamaCare. I don’t want to pay for having a baby, diabetes, and all the other stuff that doesn’t apply or that I will never ever use. For now, I am stuck with a triple the cost premium, $6750 to be paid up front before Insurance even bothers to pay a dime…. thus, I am never getting any actual reimbursements. I am just paying some company a lot of money each year for no reason.

    Tonight, I am fed up with Paul Ryan and co.

    Tomorrow, I will try again to “get on board”….

    Liked by 5 people

    • “wellness”. Yep. “they” will work and work and work some more until they can find a way to cure us of our “wellness”.

      Because… there are trillions at stake.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Howie says:

        The minders are already here. Some benefits require a managed care QOL minder to visit you at home already and investigate your habits that might be risky.
        https://www.healthdialog.com/
        Total population health.
        One person at a time.
        Vision
        To become the nation’s leading total population health management services provider. Health plans, providers, and employers will turn to us first for help in maximizing the health of their populations in the most cost-effective way, and the individuals we engage with will place a high value on the support we provide because it empowers them to improve their health and well-being.
        Mission

        To empower people to improve their health while reducing unnecessary healthcare costs.
        https://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/p0000064/P0000064.asp

        Liked by 2 people

        • churchmouse says:

          Scary. A stranger visiting you at home to verify your personal habits and environment?

          Like

          • georgiafl says:

            Ryan likes this idea and is probably behind it – because his dad died of heart disease and he’s a diet/fitness nut – does some form of rigorous fitness training P90X or something and did marathons.

            Sounds like Michelle Obama’s lunch program on steroids.

            Sounds like they are planning on banning candy, cola, burgers and french fries and mandating ‘healthy’ diets. Yes, Americans are obese, especially in Wisconsin which is one of the most obese US states.

            However, mandates and forcing compliance do not work.

            Positive reinforcement and imparting knowledge, offering rewards, incentives, discounts and tax credits for voluntary lifestyle changes have been work.

            Liked by 1 person

            • churchmouse says:

              Thank you for the info!

              ‘Ryan likes this idea’: yes, the man with a wall around his house. He gets a health plan for legislators and will never see this. But, he reasons, it’s for the little people.

              To counter Ryan’s dictating to Americans on their health: my father also died of heart disease at an early age. So did his father, whom I never met. So have some of my friends in the present day. That doesn’t give the right to go around snooping in people’s homes as a precursor to getting health insurance!

              Re obesity: severely limit or stop eating starch and sugar, eat more fat (including animal fat) and less protein. Watch the pounds roll off. It’s called the ketogenic diet, which is a permanent eating plan, not a fad diet. I’ve been on it for three years. I lost weight and stabilised. Cholesterol and triglycerides go down with keto.

              Someone on here was talking about corn. It’s all the corn syrup used in place of sugar which also leads to obesity. Sugar makes you feel more sated than corn syrup. We owe the proliferation of corn syrup to the Nixon administration in the 1970s. Corn farmers, IIRC, had a glut of crop then, so were bailed out with companies producing corn syrup for commercial cake, cookie and candy manufacturers.

              Note when obesity started to climb: the late 1970s to early 1980s. It was no big deal at the time. Most people attributed it to Americans giving up smoking. Although that was a factor, I would posit that the increase of sweet snacks and cakes made with corn syrup were a greater contributor — and continue to be today.

              Liked by 1 person

              • georgiafl says:

                Salty snacks like crackers and chips also contribute, along with soft drinks and the rest of our favorites (fast food, etc). Eat at home family meals with vegetables and salads have diminished with women working, divorces, unwed mothers with no Dad in the home, increase of addictions, etc.

                I’m not in favor of a one-food group diet (animal fat/low carb) diet. Whole grains and vegetables/fruit contain important phytonutrients. Did you know heart attacks diminished in Britain, in WWII, despite the stress of the bombings, when sugar was rationed?

                Liked by 1 person

      • Oldschool says:

        As a human, we are all gonna die. The advent of “wellness” care shifted billions of dollars from illness to indulgence. Scoping and scanning for dollars, gym memberships, all kinds of tests and visits that do nothing other than generate revenue for certain sectors. Our life expectancy has actually decreased in the last few years. How’s wellness working? Meanwhile, the stage 4 cancer patient is being denied a second RX of oxy. this month. He is in such pain his wife is afraid he will take his life. (True story). Tumors so bad excrement leaking all over, but the gal at Aetna says no to oxy because of addiction. Hey, lets keep leaving it up to the gals at aetna and govt. Personally, if I cannot take care of myself or my loved ones in conjunction with my doctors without permission from government or insurance, we HAVE lost our republic, so all these plans, phases, sides end the same, light the match.

        Like

    • vinchenzer says:

      I want my old healthcare plan where I only had to pay $1500 out of pocket before insurance took up the cost. I want to pay the same premiums via employer based plan that we had before ObamaCare.
      ——————————————————————————–
      Agreed, now we are stuck with the Federal Government taking over Healthcare for the duration of the Republic. it’s ridiculous but people love Big Brother.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Howie says:

      Your husband is right. It is part of the planned ‘quality of life’ mandates they will use to ‘control’ risky behavior by all the serfs. Remember ‘Prohibition” QOL is 1000 times worse….think Bloomberg and The Big Gulp.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Paul Killinger says:

        That’s ALREADY HERE if you’re on Medicare…

        Your insurer is required to send you a letter each year to ask you when you’d like to schedule your “Home visit.”

        Their only problem being is they haven’t yet figured out a way to overcome your Constitutional protections if you ignore this request or decline.

        Like

      • Oldschool says:

        The one very risky behavior they leave out is homosexuality. I am speaking factually, not judgementally. HIV is still spreading at high rates, with male homosexuals being the highest risk and most affected. Anatomy and lifestyle are the risk factors. This is a very expensive disease to manage and yet we hear nothing about this and these questions are never on a health questionnaire. Just smoking, drinking, excercise and GUN OWNERSHIP. Yep, gun ownership is now a health issue.

        Like

    • filia.aurea says:

      RyanCare has not one snowball’s chance of passing as is. This is going to take President Trump’s intervention to craft a passable bill. He will not be taking the month of April off either.

      Like

  20. Founding Fathers Fan says:

    People keep complaining about the RINOs but refuse to rally together and vote out the RINOs in their primaries. Both McConnell and Ryan ran against conservatives in their primaries and they still won those primaries with low voter turnouts.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Paul Killinger says:

      That’s the beauty of the GOPe…

      They have virtually UNLIMITED amounts of money thanks to their “sponsors” in the Swamp to beat back any primary challenges from citizen candidates.

      Which is also why there’s ONE Donald Trump!

      Like

  21. Ziiggii says:

    To many Treepers whining and not realizing that there is a negotiation going on – a la “Art of the Deal”.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/10/president-trump-holds-roundtable-discussion-on-healthcare-proposal/

    That includes the Constitutionalist (Paul & Freedom Caucus) at the table… let’s see what happens after the adjustments are made.

    The man is brilliant; me thinks he knew there would be push back by his supporters! That’s a strategic advantage for his side at the bargaining table. Otherwise he would have gone with Paul’s plan and that would not be negotiable from a position of strength.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Oldschool says:

      I agree ziiggi, just hope you are right. Never thought I would see the day that Trump would put his people in the ring to get beat up by the msm, but it continues to happen day after day. I truly believed he had a plan to structurally change press briefs and communication. Disappointed. Hope this time he has something.

      Like

  22. John Q says:

    What’s stopping Trump from drafting a bill by consulting with actual experts whose only interest is in thoughtfully transitioning to a more market-based health care system with limited Government involvement that includes sensible considerations for people with preexisting conditions and/or limited funds?

    At least with that he could “prove” himself. If he’s not going to get anything but some special interest laden mess passed he may as well use the opportunity to offer an alternative that couldn’t be ignored. It probably wouldn’t pass, but it won’t be him that looks bad when it fails. Just use it as a way to weed out the rats and provide 2018 candidates with something to champion.

    Rand seems to be using this situation to position himself better in the next election even though he knows his bill won’t pass, and there’s no reason Trump couldn’t do the same thing. I’d prefer Trump does that than pass some crappy bill just to have something pass.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jedi9 says:

      John I was thinking the same thing. One thing is for certain which should concern us all, if we and everybody else here who supported Trump in this past election for obvious reasons, is that if Trump passes anything resembling what Ryan is proposing (shear insanity) or Obama Care Lite (Ha! Yeah right!) is that he risks becoming neutered because he would have alienated so many who oppose anything that is not a free market based health care plan. This is a fight and it needs the same attention that the writing of the constitution got when our forefathers conceived of it. Anything short of that, would be disingenuous by our so called representatives and if they fail to cooperate to fix this problem all because they beholden to people like Donahoe, then they need to be held accountable for it in the end.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Jedi9 says:

        “they are beholden” (sorry for the grammar mistake)

        Like

      • John Q says:

        He’d certainly alienate me.
        Trump was my last hope after seeing these parasites (of every party) run the country into the ground while laughing and scoffing all the way to the bank.
        If Trump signs into law Ryan Scare or any sort of ObamaCare Lite he’s going to look extremely weak to me.
        I’m not as versed in political procedures as many here but I’ve read the arguments. I don’t see any reason to have faith in negotiations; to me, that’s just a foot in the door by those who’ve been proven to be in it for themselves and their donors.
        I’d like to see the proverbial door slammed in their faces as publicly as possible. Trump’s election was only the first door slamming and I’d hate to see that door opened back up.
        Like McKinney says below, “There is no rush.” I’d rather it be done right than have some mad scramble to pass the first thing to come along while hoping for negotiations.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Strea says:

          This is the first step, creating a bill.
          The ” Conference Committee ” is where the final deal gets done.
          The bill just needs to get there.

          If the bill passes by simple majority (218 of 435), the bill moves to the Senate. In the Senate, the bill is assigned to another committee and, if released, debated and voted on. Again, a simple majority (51 of 100) passes the bill. Finally, a conference committee made of House and Senate members works out any differences between the House and Senate versions of the bill. The resulting bill returns to the House and Senate for final approval. The Government Printing Office prints the revised bill in a process called enrolling. The President has 10 days to sign or veto the enrolled bill.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Howie says:

        The plan of the RINOS is not to pass anything. It is to delay delay delay so as to not pass a real budget with reductions in the graft. The longer they can dither around on health care the better for them. The dithering can set them up for the Kicking of the Can in the fall. The Kicking of the Can is the grand finale of The Festival of the Splitting of the Loot. The perfect kick is done just before Christmas and ushers in the New Year! Ho Ho Ho!

        Like

  23. Mckinney says:

    As far as I was concerned, ACA was codified and locked in upon O’s reelection. Those were the stakes in that election when conservs decided to vote with their asses. I’ll be happy now just by repealing the mandates and let the thing fall apart. Then we will have the mandate to repeal. There is no rush.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. usnveteran says:

    I would like them to at least ‘start’ by getting rid of the mandates and penalties (which may also morph into another elitist ‘civil asset forfeiture’ scheme that usually targets the middle class).

    Liked by 1 person

  25. bullnuke says:

    From a purely political excercise it is amazing to see how republicans differ from democrats. Lots of fighting on the republican side compared to democrats being in lockstep with each other when they are in charge. I haven’t seen any polling on this issue so I don’t have a clue where the precious independants stand.
    I will continue to support President Trump’s vision. He hasnt done anything to lose my trust.

    Liked by 4 people

  26. vinchenzer says:

    Or else, Trump will be facing Democrats’ in oppositional control of at least one house of the legislative branch of government. Then again, maybe that’s really what congress wants.
    —————————————————————————-
    I agree with that thought, it’s more than likely true.

    Here is an interesting take by Joel Pollack (you have to read the whole article to understand what Trump is doing, I am only highlighting this part, Trump has used this technique hundreds of times) : “In The Art of the Deal — which liberals ought to study as carefully as conservatives studied Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals if they want to begin to understand a president they have only demonized and caricatured thus far — Trump explains that one of his core negotiating principles is: “Protect the Downside and the Upside Will Take Care of Itself.” ……. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/09/obamacare-blue-state-blues-art-deal-explains-replacement-debate/

    I hope.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. outerlimitsfan says:

    I’m not sure the vast majority want a complete repeal unfortunately. They certainly want aspects of it changed though. Typically Obamacare gets an approval rating ranging from 43%-49%.

    Keep in mind though that certain aspects are more popular than that average. Pre existing conditions for example is a popular aspect.

    Politicians aren’t going to support a repeal without an immediate replacement, mainly because the political fallout if a ton of people lose coverage would end their careers.

    Like

  28. A2 says:

    This is A2’s solution. Someone suggested we think ‘outside the box’. Deep breath.
    For all the dosh that has been spent on creating, rolling-out and implementing Ocare, some have said it is in the range of a trillion plus, money wasted or put in the pockets of the special interests with a revolving credit line.

    Why not use that taxpayer money to give every citizen (legal), man, woman or child a one off large, let’s say million plus payment into an interest bearing Health Savings Account. Use the credit card model for payments to doctors, clinics, hospitals and chemists. The credit card companies are good at monitoring fraudulent use. If someone dies, any money left in their account may be clawed back to help fund the newbies.

    Get rid of medicaid, medicare taxes (use the money already payed in to top up accounts) and let the consumer go shopping for the best and cheapest services and drugs. It puts the ‘patients’ in control of how to care and pay for the services they want. The consumers decision not a gov. controlled decision. The competition alone will bring done costs. Use the money saved to fund medical R&D.

    It would eliminate the Insurance model one size mandated for all and if they wish to remain in the medical insurance business let them offer catastrophic plans or those tailored to the rich and indulgent who want to change their ‘identities’.

    It would also negate all the junk, weird taxes and pork in Ocare. It also gets rid of the politicised nonsense that pols love to scream about. It would also mean, that anyone showing up to the ERs without their HS card is not a legal resident. Then, treat them and put them on the list for deportation. It would get gov out of the business of healthcare, aka continual and escalating tax funding going to the lobbyists and big special interests where it never belonged except in Public Health.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. wheatietoo says:

    I still think Waivers are the way to go.

    Sometimes the simplest thing is the best.
    Congress gave themselves a big fat Waiver…right?
    I’ll bet that there are Millions of people who don’t even know about this!

    If Congress can have a Waiver then why can’t everyone else have one too?

    Give the Insurance Companies a Waiver…then they are free to go back to offering people those ‘A La Carte’ type of policies that we all used to love.
    Those areas, whole counties in some places, that have no choices?
    The Ins Companies would be free to offer them coverage again!

    With a Waiver, employers could start hiring again…with full-time jobs.
    They could go back to offering as much of a ‘health ins benefit’ as they could afford.

    Have we forgotten what Job Killer that ObamaCare has been?

    ObamaCare rode in on Waivers.
    Kathleen Sibelius issued thousands of Waivers…to their ‘chosen few’.
    The legality of it has already been established.

    I kept waiting for someone to go all the way to the SCOTUS, challenging the constitutionality of those Waivers-for-the-chosen-few.
    But…no one did.

    So lets use that!

    ObamaCare rode in on Waivers…so it can ride out on Waivers, and die.

    Pres Trump could simply order his HHS Secretary, Sec Price, to make Waivers available to anyone who requests one.
    Make the process simple.
    A simple form…and you’ve got a Waiver.

    I’m telling ya, Waivers could be the best way to go.
    All of this other monkey business is far too complicated…and it doesn’t have to be.

    Liked by 2 people

  30. sundance says:

    Like

  31. R-C says:

    To begin with, there are only shades of difference between the ‘republican’ and ‘democrat’ wings of the UniParty. They’re in cahoots, behind-the-scenes. The two party system is mostly an illusion, when it comes to Washington, DC. They keep up appearances, but they’re ALL pulling for the wrong team.

    So, it makes little difference which wing of the UniParty happens to hold congress–the end result is the same. And, I’ve noticed that the ‘republican’ UniPartiers don’t really like being ‘in charge’ anyway…they’re far better at playing the ‘opposition party’ rather than holding the reins and actually leading.

    And NONE of them are true ‘public servants’–they’re all ‘self-servants’, beholden to whichever money-bags financier gives them the best back-door deal, or the best perks.

    What would be the practical difference in having the congress change hands? Answer: “NOT MUCH”.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Howie says:

      Right. They are trying to scheme a way to prevent a budget cutting down the graft from passing this year. The Uniparty Coalition would much rather spend their time plotting a way to impeach President Trump than losing all the graft. Short of impeachment their boys at the FBI, MSM, and IC might be able to concoct ongoing investigations to slow the attack of the deplorables. As Spring turns to Summer the herd will start their migration to the land of milk and honey and endless loot.

      Liked by 2 people

    • missmarple2 says:

      You better think again. Once Congress is in dem hands we would have all committees headed by dems, who would immediately start 24/7 investigations with an eye on finding something to justofy impeachment, or did you miss how often that word has come up with democrats?

      As infuriated as I am with McConnell and Ryan, seeing Pelosi and Schumer in charge would he hundreds of times worse. It would be taken as a repudiation of Trump and probably make him a one-term president.

      THAT is the difference. Please adjust your thinking.

      Liked by 3 people

    • camulla says:

      I disagree. Democrats have treaties on guns, etc. prepared when President Obama was in office that are just waiting for Democrats to regain control of the Senate. To those who don’t like current candidates, are you rationalizing letting local leadership pick the Republican candidates and not getting involved in local parties because of sports, etc.? Don’t just blame Congress for the people’s failures and laziness.

      Like

  32. WallyWorld says:

    The drivers of skyrocketing costs must be addressed if we are serious about getting prices down. We need Pharma reforms. Tort reforms. And price transparency- which is a major scandal of collusion and fraud that nobodies talking about.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. bulwarker says:

    So the Cons dont have 51 votes without the RINOs to go nuclear and repeal/replace but the RINOs dont have 51 without the Cons to use reconciliation for Ryancare. I am certain no dems will vote for either. Seems like this shouldve been hashed out behind the scenes prior to making the final plans public, now its a circus and Trump is stuck as the ring leader.

    2 questions: with Ryancare (step 1 and 2) will premiums continue to increase while people are still restricted to certain plans? If so I dont see how they get to step 3 which requires winning more seats in 2018. Better off letting the Dems own this healthcare debacle, clubbing them with it daily until next November, in the mean time pass tax reform.

    Liked by 2 people

  34. My state senator, Sen Blunt was one of those mentioned by SD. Personally I’m not in favor of any strategy that says they won’t. I’m in favor of a strategy that says they will (if the pressure is on). And if it’s still an I don’t we the people want names. I’m one of those people who will call. But I can also instigate if I have any additional info wink wink. My choice over Blunt was Jason Kander. And given Blunt’s gang of 8 history I thought about it. Flirted with it. But America had a chance thanks to a New York native not named Clinton.

    If anyone has dirt on Sen Blunt beyond what is known reply with the word “me” and I will deliver a reply for an email in which you can anonymously send dirt on Blunt. Any dirt at all is helpful. But pay dirt. That has a dominoe effect. Just saying.

    Hey Blunt.
    🌳👀🌳

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Howie says:

    The natural habitat of the RINO is their coveted minority status. As the compliant minority they can feed upon the abundant graft and loot and still complain just enough to get the stupid voters to keep sending them back for more. Corruption with no responsibility. They are Natural Born Losers. These folks are spawn of The Great White RINO Bob Michaels. Even when the voters put them in to the majority they still act like the minority. It is in their DNA. Their two min concerns are to make it through the year without passing a budget so they can do another baseline continuing resolution and setting up the festival of the splitting of the loot for the holidays.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. David says:

    I didn’t like Ryan care so Conservative Tree House blocked me.

    Like

  37. Howie says:

    The Conservocrats will never let it happen.

    Like

  38. Howie says:

    Simple truth…I will try and make it simple….
    What we have here is ‘managed health care’ NOT health insurance. Managed care requires a ‘manager’ in this case the mega health plan corporations. Each member will have a ‘minder’ to oversee their behavior. It is the end game in ‘wellness’ schemes. Prohibitions on risky behavior will result. You will end up in a rubber room wearing a ‘safety suit’ if they take it all the way. Anything that can be considered a risk for claim will be punished.
    Do you prefer soylent green or blue?

    Liked by 2 people

  39. Dogstar_K9 says:

    1. Anything that has Cuccinelli, Sasse or Lee near it, is just right off the bat wrong.
    2. First problem with Obamacare? The deals to get it passed.
    3. Second problem? Mandated insurance for all.
    4. Exemptions for unions and others.
    5. Subsidies.
    6. Making it beneficial for companies to drop private coverage for employees.
    7. Making it beneficial to keep employee rosters low.
    8. High premiums and deductibles.
    9. Losing choice of healthcare provider.

    How to fix?
    1. Since Congress lacks the stomach or desire for full repeal, use every power of every department to hack at roots of Obamacare. What’s left should be easy to repeal.
    2. Any subsidies (and not the term “tax credit”) should be given to employers NOT providers or insurance companies. That would incentivise hiring not firing.
    3. Tax credits for R/D of pharmacueticals and procedures.
    4. No exemptions for ANY group; not unions, government officials or religion group.
    5. Catastrophic medical insurance and pre-existing conditions can purchased through government, in a manner similar to flood insurance.
    6. Tax, yup, TAX, certain types of cosmetic and elective surgeries.

    How’s this as a starting point?

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Isn’t it time for “The Art Of The Deal”?

    Like

  41. Force Congress to be covered under any plan they create for the peons. It will be fixed immediately.

    Like

  42. “In the majority, Senate Republicans can try to overrule her decisions. They can even remove her from the job if they want.”
    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/senate-parliamentarian-elizabeth-macdonough-obamacare-114274

    Like

  43. georgiafl says:

    Not pretending to know anything about health care or political process/wrangling, but it seems to me that:

    President Trump still holds the ultimate Trump Card (aka leverage) – his Veto power.

    He can veto any and every plan
    + that won’t work for the American people and for businesses.
    + that provides benefits for illegals and encourages their presence in the USA.
    + that favors anti-American/globalist interest groups
    + that allows for fraud and corruption

    Trump can veto the weasely, cr4ppy plans and wait – simply let the Democrats horrid, expensive, socialist, mandated Obamacare fail/collapse and discredit them and their RINO enablers forever. Then he can present his ideas and they will embrace them.

    OBAMACARE FAILURE IS ACTUALLY A KIND OF REPEAL.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Charles says:

    “If you make the American electorate choose the free market or dependency cold turkey today they will vote democrat in millions in 2018 and 2020.”

    Except that they’re not being offered a free market choice, now are they. Not one of the plans being “thwacked” about offers anything close to a free market in health care. Not one of theplans being thwacked about makes any attempt to get democrats like Manchin on board.

    A free market would be unconstrained by state boundaries, multiple competitive offerings, illgeals not funded by premium payers, doctors & facilities compensated fairly for their services (not driven out by paperwork and socialized theft), insane CMS paperwork and price regulation without compensating cost regulation. You can’t deliver cost health care when you’re forced to also cover illegals for free.

    This isn’t rocket science. We’re arguing over unrealistic options because that is the corner we’re allowing clan Ryan and clan Cruz to paint us into.

    This doesn’t have to be a Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario. Trump can changes the conditions of the test, I believe he is letting clan Ryan and clan Cruz paint box themselves in, and that he will bring all the stakeholders together for replacement that actually works. And if it actually works, Dems like Manchin will be on board, and McConnell won’t have to lower the threshold.

    Like

    • Rick says:

      Charles, what precisely are the differences between what you just proposed and what is proposed by “clan Cruz” (I’m not sure how he has become the clan leader, since Rand Paul is obviously the face of that side)?

      Like

      • Charles says:

        There’s a lot in what Rand Paul claims his plan will do, that seems workable. Why it doesn’t get any traction, at least discussion of it pros/cons I don’t know. I imagine one of the big uncertainties is his libertarian “let the free markets work” approach, which I agree with in principal, but in practice, even if Obamacare was full repealed, what remains is not a free market, and truly free markets tend to pick the low hanging fruit first and go after the tougher segments later. For example, a lot of physicisans have left practice. I doubt they can be wooed back quickly, if ever.

        So I don’t see any details on how to “jump start” non-Obamacare markets into a diversity of affordable choices where everyone (everyone here legally) has a workable choice (albeit not ideal and certainly not free).

        Like

  45. Rick says:

    This is really amazing. The Republicans (including the president) run for years claiming they will repeal Obamacare and replace it with free market solutions. We give them the House, the Senate, the White House, and (after a fashion) the Supreme Court.

    Then they tell us they can’t do it because they actually need 60 votes in the Senate…60 votes they had no reason to believe they would have when they made their promise. And then they have the nerve to say WE are the ones who are unreasonable because we expected them to keep their promise, NOT to force a slightly watered down version of Obamacare onto us.

    No. Keep your promise. I don’t care how. I don’t care if it isn’t this year. I don’t care if it means ending the filibuster in the senate. I don’t care if it means a sitting Republican president will help primary challengers defeat sitting Republicans (which he has reportedly threatened to do…against those who are insisting that the promise to REALLY repeal Obamacare be kept!). Keep your promise.

    Like

    • rvsueandcrew says:

      Rick…. Look at how confused people are about this topic. The process has been explained again and again by numerous people How in the world would that work in a campaign? When choosing whom to vote for, people don’t listen to explanations. They reject anything that isn’t expressed in a few words. That’s why in a campaign the messages are Make America Great Again or We’ll Get Rid of Obamacare.

      Now we’re faced with the tough part…. the reality of votes required. I understand why people are reacting negatively, but I also think it’s premature to talk about broken promises. Sometimes we have to forego instant gratification and have patience.

      Like

      • Rick says:

        If Donald Trump has shown he is good at anything, it is putting things in words the average person can relate to. As I said in a comment below, I would prefer the president propose free market solutions, give a TV speech explaining the enormous benefits (with real life examples), then let the Democrats filibuster it. When they do, the president can remind people constantly that Obamacare is failing, rates are going up, the number of uninsured is rising, and the Democrats won’t allow his rescue plan to reach his desk to be signed. Meanwhile, the president is proving elsewhere that his proposals work (jobs, stock market, crime going down, etc.). This will increase the likelihood of picking up even more seats in the Senate.
        But, the current approach divides his base of support and will probably cost him a senator or two in the next election cycle.

        Like

  46. ZZZ says:

    I can’t believe the terror placed upon a people by this previous administration – FORCING people to buy exorbitantly priced, useless insurance while invaders and free-loaders pay nothing.

    What if EVERYONE refused to pay…what can they do…arrest everyone who won’t pay their draconian fine?

    The only thing, perhaps, is the IRS can garnishee wages – unless maybe the DOJ intervenes and prevents them?

    I have insurance through my employer and before the ACA it was excellent after the ACA it is useless BUT I still have to pay for it or get even worse insurance through the government. What kind of boot-strapping is this?

    Like

    • Rick20033 says:

      ZZZ,

      Paul Ryan’s plan does all of the same things you describe, except you pay the penalty to the insurance company instead of the IRS (because the bill was written by insurance lobbyists).

      Like

  47. jeans2nd says:

    Joe Manchin – Excellent idea.

    “Neither side can get it all but the Democrats are the big winners if we don’t work together”

    Ok, so let’s work together , and make the Dems and GOPe co-little winners.
    Set aside the Rand Pauls et al of the Senate for now. They are recalcitrant; they need a spell in the time-out chair. The Mark Levins may rant from the cheap seats.

    Negotiate/bargain with the Manchins-Portmans-Cornyns of the Senate. Include the voices of our Union guys, such as our Teamsters and Coal Miners.

    Portman, Cornyn, and other GOPe Senators have co-sponsored several bills with Dem Senators such as Manchin, some of which were related to reforming Obamacare. The Union guys supported many of those bills.

    Include parts of the previous bi-partisan co-sponsored bills in the negotiations and include in the Step 1 revisions. Parts that cannot be passed now can be renegotiated in Step 3. Trust that our HHS Sec Price will quickly change the regulations in Step 2.

    To the House Reps and Senate – stop talking to the TV cameras and go Do Your Job. Who says The Wall has to be pure GOP? (all in all you’re just another Brick in The Wall)

    Like

  48. How about this approach. Delay the issue until we get the necessary votes via upcoming elections, and recruiting democrats. If Obamacare fails in the meantime then so be it. The Dems will own it. Maybe then they will be ready for a repeal too.

    Like

    • Rick20033 says:

      This is a much better plan than moving forward with their current bill. I would prefer the president propose free market solutions, give a TV speech explaining the enormous benefits (with real life examples), then let the Democrats filibuster it. When they do, the president can remind people constantly that Obamacare is failing, rates are going up, the number of uninsured is rising, and the Democrats won’t allow his rescue plan to reach his desk to be signed. Meanwhile, the president is proving elsewhere that his proposals work (jobs, stock market, crime going down, etc). This will increase the likelihood of picking up even more seats in the Senate.

      But, the current approach divides his base of support and will probably cost him a senator or two in the next election cycle.

      Liked by 1 person

  49. HolyLoly says:

    This battle isn’t bothering me at all. At least Trump is allowing Ryan to show his a** for what it is. A sneaky, bought and paid for swamp dweller. Listening to him explain his plan reminded me of the saying, “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bs.”

    I say let those who have some decency fight the battle to stop this piece of garbage in its tracks. I know what I would fight for is a TEMPORARY suspension of the filibuster in order to repeal Ocare in its entirety. It is that much of a monster and needs emergency action.

    Absent that option, stop calling what they’re doing a repeal when it is no such thing. Those of us who pay attention see right through the manipulation of language and it just infuriates us even more.

    Like

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