Paul Ryan Outlines Why It Takes Three Steps For ObamaCare Repeal and Replacement…

Good news, they’re listening to you.  No other approach to repealing ObamaCare is possible.  It’s not ideological, it is simply reality.  The backstory on our prior explanations are HERE and expanded HERE.

After listening to conservative groups at a White House meeting yesterday, it became obvious to POTUS  those group leaders/members did not understand WHY no other approach to repeal is possible.   POTUS asked Speaker Ryan to put this together and deliver it today:

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Most of you already know this outline because you’ve understood the bigger picture.  Hopefully this message will reach the 99% who don’t understand that “reconciliation” doesn’t allow for substantive structural add-ons to ObamaCare, until step #3.  Again, HERE and HERE.

FACT: ObamaCare was passed, using the original legislative vehicle, at 1:38am on 12/24/09 with 60 votes in the Senate (see below). The House then approved that Senate Bill without changes; and in February 2010 created a secondary bill which created the opportunity for the Senate to modify ObamaCare using “reconciliation” for a lower vote threshold of 51 votes.

Literally under the cloak of darkness Democrats rammed their holy grail of a socialist construct down the throat of every American. We no longer needed to imagine having usurping representation that did not represent the will of the people – we saw it.

[Understand the full construct by reading HERE] If you do not understand how legislation is created; if you do not understand the difference between the Senate and House; if you do not understand the way ObamaCare was created, you really need to read this first.

A clean repeal bill, meaning a law to repeal the entire ObamaCare construct only, would require another 60 vote hurdle in the Senate.

Republicans, while in the majority, only control 52 seats. Without 8 Democrats voting to approve a “repeal bill”, any House (Or Senate) bill that repeals ObamaCare cannot pass the Senate.

This is why Mark Levin is a con-man; selling snake oil as outrage to keep a listening audience angry, yet clueless and hopeless. That’s what I don’t like.

A complete repeal of ObamaCare is currently impossible. The House Freedom Caucus can push all the repeal bills they want, but they cannot get a clean repeal bill through the Senate because they cannot get the 60 votes needed. Period.

Additionally, despite claims to the contrary, the GOP has never passed an Obamacare “repeal bill”. Ever. What they did previously pass was a “defund bill” using the lower vote reconciliation process. President Obama vetoed it. A defunding bill was possible because of the financial pathway which falls under reconciliation rules. The current Ryan bill is almost identical to the 2016 defunding bill everyone is mistakenly calling a prior “repeal bill”.

A complete independent repeal bill of ObamaCare is currently impossible.

The only bill that can pass the Senate is a bill that can utilize the process of reconciliation, which has a lower vote threshold of 51 votes. A reconciliation bill is a budgetary bill designed around the financial drivers of ObamaCare. This is what HHS Secretary Tom Price, Speaker Ryan and President Trump are attempting to do.

A reconciliation bill cannot add substantively to the existing law. It can only modify the financial structures and retain the same 10-year budgetary impact. If you want substantive adds or removals of the law, beyond the financial structure, it is no longer a reconciliation bill.

If it is no longer a reconciliation bill, it requires 60 votes. 52 Republicans + 8 democrats. Democrats have already stated they will not support any substantive changes that undermine the key ObamaCare provisions.

Accepting the Democrats will not vote to repeal their signature law… The only way to fully repeal ObamaCare as an independent bill, and overcome the 60 vote threshold, would be to eliminate the filibuster rule (3/5ths vote threshold or 60 votes) in the Senate and drop the vote threshold to 51 votes, a simple majority, for all legislation.

However, if the Senate was to drop to a simple majority vote for all legislation the entire premise of the upper chamber minority party protection is gone. Forever.

There would no longer be any difference in the House or Senate for vote thresholds, and as a consequence there would no longer be any legislative protections for the minority positions. What this means, in combination with the previous passage of the 17th amendment, is the constitutional republican framework is gone.

The constitutional republic being now replaced with a pure majority rule democracy. The founding fathers regarded majority rule democracy less desirable than a monarchy because a simple majority means mob rule. At least in a monarchy you might get a wise king once-in-a-while. In a mob rule democracy emotion drives everything. You go from being a nation of laws, to a nation of laws of the moment based on emotion.

Eliminating the 3/5th’s vote threshold in the Senate would also mean there’s no real reason to keep the Senate around when in the hands of the same party as the House. The House can pass 50% +1 bills all by themselves. The Senate, the place where grand deliberations required the protection and consideration of the minority position, would be unnecessary.

All structural protections for the minority views would be dispatched. Forever.

Without the filibuster rule, and with the Senate having only a simple majority rule for passage, there would no longer exist an internal legislative check for any minority party to protect themselves from the laws created by a greater mob.

The ruling party would be in power as if they held a Senate super majority at all times. As a consequence, with minority protection eliminated, legislation impacting Texas (or any state) is then ruled by the legislative federal dictates from those representing New York and California (or any other aggregate). There is no legislative pressure to listen to, or consider, the position of the minority party.

You would think that constitutional conservatives would be necessarily predisposed against the dropping of a constitutional republic in favor of a pure democracy (mob rule).

However, within this current argument over the Price/Ryan approach to replacing ObamaCare you find exactly that. Emotional conservatives, and crony-constitutional conservatives like Mark Levin, arguing against the current House bill leaving only the option to drop the Senate filibuster on legislation and pass laws with a simple majority.

So you tell me, is this really a constitutional-conservative approach?

Really and honestly?

Two more points on this issue:

Point One  –  OK, lets say your Senator would agree to change the Senate Rules and eliminate the filibuster, allowing legislation to pass with 51 votes (there are about 28 +/- of them who would).   To change the rules you need a majority of Senators to agree to do it.  THERE ARE NOT 51 Senators willing to change the Senate rules to pass legislation.

Point Two – There are not even 51 Senators who would agree to repeal ObamaCare.   Forget the 60 vote threshold, for a moment.  Even if you didn’t have the filibuster rule, there are not currently 51 Republican Senators willing to repeal ObamaCare without an existing replacement available.

Of course there are problems with the current Ryan bill. It can only approach ObamaCare from the reconciliation aspect. It cannot go into the substantive changes, adds or modifications because that would require the 60 vote Senate. Again, See Here.

Additionally, despite claims to the contrary, the GOP has never passed an Obamacare “repeal bill”. Ever. What they did previously pass was a “defund bill” using the lower vote reconciliation process. President Obama vetoed it. A defunding bill was possible because of the financial pathway which falls under reconciliation rules.

Yes, the GOP could defund it 100% again, but then what?… It still exists as a program, and Trump would have to fund the existing (non repealed law) from somewhere. So you’re back to the 60 votes for a replacement again or eliminate the filibuster and go with the 51-vote threshold for all future legislation.

Back to current ObamaCare’s replacement – there are three options if we are going to retain a constitutional republic, and pass laws with the 60 vote senate filibuster threshold:

Option #1 – We can do nothing – and allow ObamaCare to collapse on it’s own. In the interim many Americans will be negatively impacted and the more vulnerable and needy will be worst hurt. Premiums and co-pays continue to skyrocket while the insurance system tries to preserve itself.

Option #2 – We can Repeal and Replace using the three-phase approach being proposed by Tom Price, Paul Ryan and Donald Trump:

  • 1. Pass reconciliation legislation targeting the financial mechanisms.
  • 2. HHS rewrites rules.
  • 3. New laws are proposed by a full congress to adjust ObamaCare and add to it, and laws debated/passed.

Yes, this has it’s risks. No guarantee you’ll get the cookie you want in phase three because any structural amendment, any add-on, will take 60 Senate votes to pass.

Option #3 – Pass futile structural repeal bills in the House, and watch them pile up in the Senate without the ability to pass and earn 60 votes. Shout and holler some more, gnash some teeth, and wait for 2018 when Republicans will attempt to win the other 8 seats needed. Again, even less of a guarantee on the outcome.

Those are our options.

Choose wisely.

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This entry was posted in Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Decepticons, media bias, Mitch McConnell, Obamacare, Paul Ryan, President Trump, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

611 Responses to Paul Ryan Outlines Why It Takes Three Steps For ObamaCare Repeal and Replacement…

  1. Wee2low says:

    Is anyone else alarmed at the fact that prominent members of Congress don’t know the mechanics of this? To me yesterday was a disaster (maybe by design). I just don’t see how this wasn’t planned to go this bad. How did it go?

    Ryan releases a bill with junk in it he knows conservatives won’t like. This after much speculation that it was done behind closed doors. Conservatives read the bill and the HFC lead by Rand start gnashing teeth and going as far as saying it’s Obamacare Lite. Everyone hits the news shows and the narrative of a split GOP with Trump siding with RINOs is born.

    Am I missing something here?

    Liked by 3 people

    • Howie says:

      No, they are idiot politicians with no clue.

      Liked by 3 people

    • jeans2nd says:

      This was not done behind closed doors. Rand Paul et al were on every single Very Fake News show that would have them. Shirley they are not opining on a bill that none of them have read.

      The Rand Pauls, Jim Jordan’s, etc. are just finding it extremely difficult to accept that their opinion is not always 100% correct. None of them are looking at all the realities of the circumstances. Imo.

      Liked by 2 people

      • singingsoul says:

        Maybe all complainers rather had Hillery and wind up with Government Incurance.
        People need to realize the previous system was destroyed. This is the best to get as much choice as before. Nothing is the same and will never be the same because it was destroit.

        Like

    • Stringy theory says:

      You have it exactly right. The all so pure “conservatives” really are going to stop the repeal effort because, well because they prefer getting nothing done and stopping Trump from getting one of his signature promises completed. Sad.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Eileen says:

      I think that House members find the Senate rules Byzantine. IMO, due
      to the 14th Amendment, the Senate is outdated and we ought to get rid
      of it.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Jan says:

    This whole premise is sad. The Gov’t has no authority to be involved in healthcare.
    The Atlas co-ops and a just in case policy are all we need. Stop the monopolies and let people buy ins they want from whom they choose.

    Liked by 3 people

  3. BillRiser says:

    You a Christian check out http://www.chministries.org/ $25-$50 Month healthcare

    Liked by 5 people

    • Howie says:

      They are going to have to give free socialized, triaged, health care to the cultural useless parasites that are incapable of participating in a free market society. Millions and millions of them.

      Liked by 3 people

      • LKA in LA says:

        I agree again Howie. It continues to be all about the parasites. I work in healthcare and it is sickwnjng how helpless people have become.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Pinkie says:

          People on Medicaid use insane amounts of heathcare — they got nothing better to do and might get some good pills

          Liked by 2 people

          • Indimex says:

            How right you are. Ug! I do have a solution, though: A co-pay equal to a pack of cigarettes. A little skin in the game is the only deterrent. Just enough to make an impact. And, no more, “Field trips!” Calling an ambulance? Twenty-five dollars please. Cash!

            Liked by 2 people

            • Snow White says:

              I had to take my husband to the ER about 6 months ago in the middle of the night and if I’d have called the ambulance to take him , it would have cost us $2000

              Like

          • Oldschool says:

            Not just medicaid. People with low co pays and cadillac coverages are attention seeking, needy frequent flyers. Abuse the system while taking valuable doctors time away from really sick people. If everyone had to pay a reasonable fee for doctors, and have insurance for more complicated or serious illnesses, costs would come down.

            Like

        • People don’t mind putting out hundreds of dollars for insurance, but, BY G-D! not a penny for a doctor or a drug!! Does that make sense? Plus, people think they should not suffer a single twinge of pain, a sniffle, a bruise, a zit, an ache. They want to go to a doctor for all of those things and still NOT PAY A DIME.

          Like

          • Oldschool says:

            Omg investing , as an RN, I have seen this for years. When patients complain they can’t afford a presription or visit, I have asked them what they pay for cable, phone plans, dining out. They look at me like a deer in the headlights. Years ago I worked for an MD who said, once the copay came along, the physician was devalued. A plumber got more than a doc. He was absolutely right.

            Like

            • Indimex says:

              The problem is, these people never see a bill. Never. Many of them wouldn’t care anyway. We’re way too deep into nannystatism. And I agree. Worked in ICU for years. The majority of my patients had much nicer phones than I did and almost every single one complained that the hospital didn’t have enough cable channels.

              Like

          • Indimex says:

            This is a direct result of our Entitlement Culture. These same patients also never take responsibility for their own health issues. It’s always someone else’s fault. Usually the last Dr., or ER they visited.
            I’ve been saying it for years, the number one reason for hospital admissions is, NON-COMPLIANCE!

            Like

      • jephfree says:

        call them american healthcare refugees and send them to canada

        Like

  4. jephfree says:

    paul ryan is the wrong messanger for this.

    Liked by 7 people

  5. Howie says:

    OPTION 1 is the unfortunate right choice.

    Liked by 1 person

    • jeans2nd says:

      Must disagree, Howie. Option 1 is the correct choice AFTER steps 1, 2, & 3 are implemented and running correctly. Then Option #1 is the obvious choice.

      Liked by 4 people

  6. sundance says:

    Right here. With you arguing/obfuscating over it. But then again, you know that.

    Liked by 11 people

  7. Wookiebush says:

    If they cannot get the 60 votes to repeal Ovomitcare now, what make anyone think they will get the 60 needed for part 3?

    I will make a prediction, Ovomitcare is going to crash and burn, when it does the DemonRATS will hang the whole thing around the GOP’s neck as the GOP would have ownership of this POS legislation. This will allow them to win at least the senate and maybe the house in 2018, then President in 2020.

    The Government does not have any business being in the healthcare OR retirement business. I thought the GOP was about personal responsibility, not being a nanny like the DIMMs.

    IF the republicans cannot get the 60 votes to repeal completely, and NOT replace a damn thing, then go to the public like Reagan did. Have the people vote OUT the people that do not vote to repeal the whole damn thing. I am sure we could get to 60+ after that.

    W.
    RAR!

    Liked by 4 people

    • Mac says:

      You’ve got it.

      The AHCA will not accomplish the two most important things that have to occur, if healthcare is to be saved from being simply another government controlled program supported by taxpayers and forcing price and access controls on an entire industry. Look at how well the VA functions as a medical care delivery system. Would anyone want to have to deal with that? How about Medicare? Virtually everyone on Medicare NEEDS a supplemental policy or they will get killed with co-pays and other shortfalls.
      First of all, there has to be a rollback in the expanded Medicaid. This can be accomplished by simply defunding the federal support for the extended Medicaid program. If a given state wishes to keep the additional people on the rolls, that is their choice. They can fund it themselves or not. The second thing is to stop the federal subsidies for health insurance as well as the penalties which will force people to be insured.

      In addition to the repeal of the employer mandate and the restrictions on the coverage offered, these two simple acts will do two things. The first is that insurance companies will lose clients but will pick-up people who were on extended Medicaid. This is good as it means that insurers will have to reduce premiums, to what people can afford or lose even more money. The second thing is that the amount that the medical profession charges for procedures will decrease, in some cases dramatically. This will make insurance and medical care affordable again. In the meantime, some people will lose their insurance coverage. This is unavoidable. But, emergency medical care is mandated in every state in the Union, so, the loses will be minimal.

      If the Congress passes the AHCA and Trump signs it into law, the Republicans will then own the healthcare issue. And, even with the successful implementation of the 2nd and 3rd phases, they still might not be able to turn things around. If they can not successfully implement the other two phases, then the system will continue to decline until it collapses. But, then it will be the Republicans who are blamed. This is a strange political strategy for a political party to follow. Of course, these are the same people who did not think that Trump would be elected President. Why are we listening to them again?

      Liked by 2 people

      • sickconservative says:

        And like all Gov’t programs it will fail and now on the R’s called Trumpcare.
        Less gov’t or more either way the involvement is the problem.

        Like

      • ” Virtually everyone on Medicare NEEDS a supplemental policy or they will get killed with co-pays and other shortfalls.” Not true. Everyone has to be responsible for his/her own health and health care. Even with cancer, one can do okay on pure Medicare, if one is open-minded enough and lucky enough to get her medicine from Canada.
        Come on, people. This isn’t rocket science and the world isn’t coming to an end. If we go with the flow for now, we’ll have enough time to evaluate the reality of the Ryan-Trump-Price plan. If all goes well, we can toss out 8 Dems in 2018, and get the rest of the crud out of the law books and regulations. Meanwhile, we have a lot of work to do!

        Like

        • Mac says:

          You just made my point that medical care in the US is not approachable for almost everyone on Medicare, without some type of insurance subsidy. In your example a patient has to go to Canada to afford medicines.What you fail to mention is that drug prices are controlled by the government in Canada, You also fail to mention the number of Canadians who travel to the US to obtain medical procedures which they have to wait an inordinate amount of time to obtain there or which the government denies them access to.

          Like

    • Mike says:

      “I will make a prediction, Ovomitcare is going to crash and burn, when it does the DemonRATS will hang the whole thing around the GOP’s neck as the GOP would have ownership of this POS legislation. This will allow them to win at least the senate and maybe the house in 2018, then President in 2020.”

      I’ll go further. At that point, if you voted for Trump, you will be kidnapped from your home and thrown into work camps and then worked to death. You children will be sold into slavery. Demons from hell will inhabit the land. Lord Sauron will rule all with the ring of power. Asteroids will demolish the earth. All will be a barren void.

      Hey wow, I can do “We’re all doomed” too!

      Liked by 3 people

  8. darth641 says:

    A clean repeal bill, meaning a law to repeal the entire ObamaCare construct only, would require another 60 vote hurdle in the Senate.

    I disagree. The Republican Senate Leadership should change the rules, requiring only 51 votes. Maintaining the filibuster for ordinary legislation, will only last until the Democrats get a majority and then decide to change it themselves. You cannot “shame” the Democrats into ethical behavior. Fight them with the same passion they fight us when they have the stick.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Trainer says:

      Best comment on this thread.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Stringy theory says:

      Did you read what Sundance said about eliminating the filibuster rule?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Trainer says:

        You cannot “shame” the Democrats into ethical behavior. Fight them with the same passion they fight us when they have the stick.

        Liked by 1 person

        • kpm58 says:

          Oh yes you can. The same methods and ways that make them act the way they do can be used to make them change how they act.
          Put them under a bright enough light before a large enough crowd and they will break.
          They operate under the notion that they are acting for the people. When they can not ignore that the people are on the other side, they will break.

          Liked by 2 people

      • darth641 says:

        Yes I did….His points would be valid for a Republican majority…But as I mentioned, if the Republicans don’t eliminate the filibuster, the Democrats will the next time they have the con…They have already proven that they will do this under Reid’s leadership.

        Liked by 1 person

        • The Trump work ethic is already exhausting them. Let them filibuster. Govt not acting b/c Dems are filibustering is a good thing. See how that works? The Dems are the bad guys. Maybe our agency administrators can shut down some Dem favorite programs b/c the govt “can’t function while the Dems are talking and keeping the Congress from doing its job.”

          In fact, MAKE them filibuster. Every day, for weeks. That may be the non-public back-up plan anyway. How old are these Ds? How literate are they? How many are teetotalers? How many more confirmations do we need? One SC Justice, a couple of minor offices ….? Secy of Navy, I think? Then, the firings can begin. “Not enough money to keep surplus staff on and since Congress can’t pass budget while Senate is busy talking… etc., etc.

          Like

    • truthandjustice says:

      SD and other wise ones say they wouldn’t do that

      Like

    • sundance says:

      Good grief. Asked and answered.

      Show me 51 Republicans willing to repeal Obamacare completely.

      Show me 51 Republicans willing to overturn Senate Rules and create forevermore a simple majority rule for Senate legislation.

      I can tell you which ones won’t: Mitch McConnell, Cochran, Cornyn, Porter, Thune, Blunt, McCain, Graham, Collins, Cruz, Lee,…. that’s 11 so far.

      So how does that leave your planned approach?

      Liked by 10 people

      • Trainer says:

        Has Trump asked them? For the good of the country.

        Liked by 2 people

      • darth641 says:

        Sundance,

        First off…thanx for the Yeoman’s work you’ve been doing here.

        You have a point about pusillanimous Republicans….but your “forevermore” comment is not relevant (IMnsHO) given Democrat (Reid’s) behavior previously…If Republicans don’t do it now, the Democrats will first chance they get…and I’ll bet you a beer (or whatever your favorite poison is) on that one.

        How it leaves my planned approach, is that it puts pressure on those RINOs. Remember, If O’care crashes & burns, or if the Republicans repeal O’Care and replace it with the free market, the only folks who ‘lose,” are the folks who ain’t voting Republican anyhow….those folks on the expanded MedicAid. Moreover, I trust Ryan about as far as I can throw my F150.

        I assume you listened to Hannity and have listened to the language Ryan et al have used about this issue over time. When did “repeal” morph into “repeal and replace?” That was rhetorical.

        The first question we need to ask about ANY legislation, including ObamaCare and its “replacement” is, “Is this a Federal issue/Constitutional?” O’Care needs to be repealed and its replacement needs to be the free market. I keep hearing folks, some even claiming to be conservative, asking “But what are you gonna do about pre-existing conditions?” The answer at the Federal level, is “Absolutely nothing.”

        Liked by 4 people

      • Pam says:

        Bingo! That’s right Dems aren’t the only ones to blame. It’s so sad that something has to be explained over and over again and still some don’t get it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • sickconservative says:

        Thought I joined a site with some fight, guess not.
        I really don’t know you but from seeing at this point is we can’t win so don’t fight and continue socialist lite.
        It’s not the easy fight but it has to be fought.

        Like

    • Justin says:

      At some point, we just arrive at a point where legislation just has an on/off switch, depending upon who has 51 votes.

      Stability in the body of laws is necessary to have predictable growth.

      I’m not for making it easier for Congress to change laws, even if that means living with some really crappy laws in the interim.

      Liked by 2 people

    • kellymoncus says:

      If they do then it’s mob rule from here to eternity, that’s the wrong course unless you want the USA to go the way of the Romans!

      Liked by 2 people

    • majorstar says:

      And you’re assuming the votes could be found, in the face of a flat repeal of O-Care, to change the rules. That isn’t done by leadership fiat.

      Like

  9. truthandjustice says:

    I would suggest you not research Ryancare (2011) – you might see even more things that haven’t been mentioned anywhere. I know, maybe it’s like “we have to pass it to see what’s in it”.
    This is going to be extremely interesting to see how all this pans out with Pres. Trump in charge this time. Maybe some pleasant surprises will appear. Maybe some “persuasive” measures will be taken that weren’t before.
    Miracles happen!

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Truthfilter says:

    Just listened to Hannity’s radio show and he interviewed Rand Paul and Paul Ryan separately. Rand made some valid points or at least they seemed to be valid. When Ryan came on, Hannity brought up Rand’s objections. It gave me the impression that one of them isn’t being forthcoming. Hannity asked Ryan he would come on his tv show and address these questions along with Rand in a forum type setting. Ryan declined. I don’t trust anybody who can’t face opposition and answer questions. I don’t have reasons for trusting Rand either –but Ryan showed himself to be Rino and an antiTrumper very early on. I understand Sundance’s points in the article and I was ok with Ryan’s presentation until I heard Rand’s rebuttal. Rand says there is still a mandate and some kind of back door for insurance companies. He seemed to imply that Ryan’s presentation this morning was misleading and that Ryan was misleading Trump, too. So now I’m going to go read the bill myself.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Alexsandra says:

      If Hannity drags the doctor who has set up a plan on his show another day and keeps shouting that down our throats as what Trump et al are going to do, I’m going to scream. Tone deaf (and making me deaf with his shouting). Last thing we need is a Hannity plan on top of all these other Shenanigans. Ultimately have to trust Trump to shoe all the kittens through the doggie door and bring it all home. I do.

      Liked by 1 person

      • MissV says:

        got it. Then don’t listen. The doc he’s brought on is presenting an outside-the-box private, no-insurance primary care plan that is worth considering. I was heartened at the level of service and the inexpensive meds offered for a low monthly fee. People should have an array of choices available. Not just the crap sandwiches the government wants to feed us.

        Atlas.md in Kansas in case anybody wants to check it out.

        ANd I trust Trump, too. But I don’t trust politicians, and I don’t trust the government. I won’t accept anything less than free market choices. Why should we be expected to?

        Liked by 1 person

    • Maquis says:

      Don’t forget, this bill will be sausauge when Price is through with it. You are seeing potential verbiage for Phase 1. Phases 2 and 3 aren’t public knowledge, not fully, maybe a tiny bit, but that is where you need to Trust Trump.

      As I noted above: O ye of little faith.

      Like

  11. gamecock123 says:

    I get it now, the 3 step plan, but I wouldn’t have had I not read it at the treehouse. In fact, its the first time I heard put that way in all of 7 1/2 yrs and its alot to digest considering what we’ve told and been through. I don’t understand why Paul Ryan didn’t include the conservative group to begin with and had a concensus before rolling it out. Trump is open to listening to Rand, and Ryan should be too instead of saying Rand is pulling a publicity stunt. It’s BS like that opens old wounds. We need the conservatives on board, Ryan. Its also time for Ryan to step up and assure people he isnt going to sell us out again. One way he can do that is push for term limits starting with himself.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Trainer says:

    This is where the U.S. is headed if the GOPe doesn’t get its act together.

    https://cambriandissenters.blogspot.com.es/2017/03/obamacare-is-dead-failed-nhs-is-still.html

    Like

  13. Mickey Wasp says:

    Many do not understand the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.

    Medicaid in the US is a social health care program for families and individuals with limited resources. Medicaid is a “government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care”. Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the US. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states, with broad leeway to determine who is eligible for its implementation of the program.
    And has a Medicaid Estate Recovery Program (MERP) that everyone should be aware of …and be highly debated and not excluded from the congressional conversation – this is where the state government can take your assets after death.

    Medicare is a single-payer, national social insurance program administered by the US federal government since 1966, currently using about 30–50 private insurance companies across the United States under contract for administration. United States Medicare is funded by a payroll tax, premiums and surtaxes from beneficiaries, and general revenue. It provides health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older who have worked and paid into the system through the payroll tax. It also provides health insurance to younger people with some disabilities status as determined by the Social Security Administration,

    Folks, we are headed to a single-payer system – the only concern we should have – will it be for the benefit of the American tax-payer or the corporate profit line. There is much conversation in the American media that tows the line of corporatism profits and not the health and welfare of everyday working Americans. There have been many studies that a single-payer system would actually reduce state cost – with concerted efforts from legislation that allows limited insurance profits with expanded coverage of citizens.

    Like

    • gamecock123 says:

      It appears that was the globalist intent all along…bummer

      Like

      • Mickey Wasp says:

        It’s not always the globalist … However, it is the corporatist and their career political agents, if that is your definition of ‘globalist’, to shift cost on the tax-payer and off their profit margins. This is where the fight lives – the article by Sundance is highly informative – but he negates the fight at the ‘Step 3’ level.
        President Trump is allowing Paul Ryan to lay a ‘framework’ and then have his Sec of HHS Price un-glue the allocations and regulations – smart move. Also, Trump is acknowledging Senator Rand Paul and the Freedom Caucus concerns, which applies pressure to the ‘corporatist agents’ to the step 3 … If Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and their cohorts in Congress play games … the 2018 election is not that far away.

        President Trump has stated “He will not allow Americans to die in the streets” …
        How does he accomplish that? And he has stated he wants to meet with others and go after the astronomical profits and cost of Big Pharma …

        Liked by 1 person

        • gamecock123 says:

          I got it. It was also stated why Ryan wouldn’t (til Trump put pressure) to get rid of Ocare. Because his donors are globalists. Lets start with Tom Donahue. The CoC want Ocare. There are trillion dollars at stake, Ryan is between a rock and a hard place. He didnt intend for Trump to win and actually legislate, yet thats what happened. Ryan was comfortable to lead us into a single payer if Hillary had won…and smile while doing it.

          Liked by 1 person

    • snaggletooths says:

      we are not headed to a single payer system
      medicaid management is going back to the states where it belongs

      Liked by 1 person

      • Fe says:

        Thank God!

        Liked by 1 person

        • Mickey Wasp says:

          Why? If a well negotiated ‘single-payer’ system can lower cost and expand coverage of Americans in their personal or family health and care to the betterment. You would be against that? Defend your position – and don’t use the corporate right-wing narrative “because it just is” ….

          Liked by 1 person

          • Fe says:

            Huh? I was agreeing with snaggletooth’s comment about Medicaid mgmt is going back to the States. I don’t have fancy long winded arguments, I’ll leave that to the smarter people like you.

            Like

          • Mac says:

            There are a number of such single payer healthcare systems around the world, one right next door in Canada. None of them work well. The first thing that happens is that price controls are instituted. This means that service levels are frozen, at the point where the single payer system went into effect, or reduced. This reduces the ability of the patient to gain access to certain procedures, no matter how much money the patient possesses.

            What has happened in the US with healthcare is the rise of the third party guaranteed payment system. No matter ho much t5he provider of the service charges, he will always receive a certain amount in payment. And, as that amount is usually a percentage of the amount charged, he is incentivized to raise his prices in order to secure the greatest return from the third party payer. However, this also increases the out of pocket amount that the patient has to pay, both directly for the service and in increased insurance premiums.

            Like

          • gamecock123 says:

            Because, I do not want goverment in my HC. Period. Bottom line. We are all witnesses to whats going on in the VA. Wait times, false diagnosis, incompetance…..Hell No.

            Like

        • sickconservative says:

          Nothing i see here really put’s it back to the states, hope I’m wrong.

          Like

      • Mickey Wasp says:

        Yea, okay … welcome to ‘Step 3’ …

        Like

    • yadent says:

      Those 2 healthcare Federal programs consumed 1.4 TRILLION dollars last Federal fiscal year. About 36% of the entire Federal budget….such as it is. They have been growing at a yearly rate of approx. 9% for over the last 10+years. Think the Federal government can continue as is when healthcare consumes 50+% of the Federal budget?? At this rate of growth it will probably occur before the end of Trump’s 1st term. Everyone has been discussing the mechanisms for PAYING for healthcare but virtually nothing in regards to the escalating COSTS of healthcare itself. As I see it, only 2 ways out of this. A single-payer type system where taxes will increase, probably substantially depending on the quantity and quality of care desired, or access to care will be carefully monitored, or both. Given our current political situation, it would financially implode in time. The other way out would be a TRUE free market system where competition is allowed to flourish, where ALL healthcare providers are free to charge whatever their particular market will bear. Where the need for ‘insurance’ is lessened to ‘catastrophic’ status. Where the rule of law is evenly applied…think antitrust (why has no one questioned Rand Paul’s inclusion of antitrust protection for the medical industry in his healthcare legislation?????). Just my opinion as a former healthcare ‘insider’ .

      Liked by 2 people

    • sadsack says:

      “There have been many studies that a single-payer system would actually reduce state cost – with concerted efforts from legislation that allows limited insurance profits with expanded coverage of citizens.”Mickey Wasp

      We have the single -payer system in Canada. 200,000 B.C. citizens do not have a family doctor. You can wait 2 or 3 years for a family physician. I do have a family doctor and can wait 1 or 2 weeks before I can get an appointment. Clinics are open- no appointment time allowed so expect a long wait.

      Provinces are able to reduce costs by limiting the number of family doctors and specialists. Instead you go to the ‘cattle call ‘ clinics.

      I recently went to visit my friend at the hospital. Since there were no beds available and the hallways were full of stretchers, they put her in the Tim Hortons coffee shop with a screen around her.

      Knee or hip replacement – 2year waiting list on average.

      Single payer system does not mean that you do not pay. I still pay for extended medicare as does my husband.

      Hope this small glimpse of single payer helps.

      Good luck guys ! Lots of prayers going your way.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Mickey – those “studies” are bunkum. All guesses. Comparisons of apples to oranges. Crud. Worthless. Kinda like the OMB scoring of Obamacare 8 years ago.

      Like

  14. I don’t know if this is going anywhere, but Cruz is suggesting that Pence, in his role of head of Senate, can overrule the parlimentarian on adjudication of what can go through reconciliation process in order to get more stuff in the bill. It’s not a filibuster, but it would set a precedent that I suppose would be hard to undo.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/323272-cruz-lets-overrule-senate-officer-to-expand-obamacare-bill

    Like

  15. WallyWorld says:

    The GOP can keep the filibuster and just change the Senate rules for reconciliation by eliminating the Byrd rule. Then legislation on entitlement reconciliation can be done with 50 votes + Pence.

    Another thing the GOP can do is invoke Rule 19. The way Rule 19 works, it eliminates the 60 votes to stop debate and replaces it with a rule that says senators can only speak twice about a single subject during a legislative day.
    Whoever runs the Senate can define what a legislative day is. Congress is doing nothing but going on countless breaks and vacations, Trump can keep them in session and get it done.

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/02/08/how-senate-republicans-can-use-rule-19-to-confirm-judge-gorsuch-without-the-nuclear-option/

    Liked by 2 people

    • Hollywood Bungalow says:

      I’ve been harping on why Rand has been on TV so much and yet never brings up his bill. It’s because it’s crap other than for the provision to allow people to buy thru Associations which makes sense. It’s the House bill or nothing.

      Like

  16. Brett says:

    I’m puzzled by your saying that the filibuster somehow preserves the Constitutional Republic. It’s not required by the Constitution and only exists by virtue of the Constitution mandating that both Houses may set their own rules, so the argument that the Senate was designed by the founders to protect the minority doesn’t appear to hold water. The rules regarding the filibuster have been changed multiple times. Cloture dates from the Wilson administration, after the 17th amendment had already removed the state governments’ power in congress and whatever minority protection that had entailed. The 2/3 rule for cloture dates only to the Truman administration. Such late developments hardly seem part of the founders’ intent, so the loss of the filibuster does not destroy the Constitutional Republic.

    The 17th amendment may have done so.

    Like

  17. Jan says:

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Thursday morning tax reform isn’t going to be done by the August recess as President Trump and Treasury Secretary Munchin have suggested.

    “I think finishing on tax reform will take longer,” McConnell said during a POLITICO Playbook breakfast. “We do have to finish the healthcare debate, up or down, win or lose, before we go to taxes.”

    Anyone who thinks Ryan and Mitch are working for us is not paying attention.
    Ryan quotes the Byrd rule when the people gave control of the senate to the Repubs.
    It is total 100% BS. These guys are liars and they helped to explode the debt. The people gave them everything in order to repeal onothingcare and to get the economy going and to stop the reckless spending. They can pass anything this week IF they want to.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Linda says:

    With as many RINOs as are in the Senate, I have a problem believing we can get 51 for anything. We’re going to really have to be burning up their phones.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. ALEX says:

    Nicely done Sundance…At least you tried to explain reality, but judging from some comments it won’t matter…I listen carefully to Rand Paul and Jordan etc and every time the subject of covering the folks currently on Medicaid with pre-existing question comes up they mutter and stumble…something about associations blah blah…

    Fact of matter is Obamacare created a dependent group who have to be separated from the market based insurance or it won’t work…They will go to emergency room and either it’s passed on to paying customers or government…

    Keep the dependent group separate and let the states figure it out, then get the healthy folks paying $800 month with a $5000 dedictible into plans after HHS guts the regulations etc…You might get 60 votes for that…

    Liked by 1 person

    • snaggletooths says:

      Tom price and Sean Spicer have already said Medicaid management is going back to the states not sure either why some are so confused over medicaid and the workings of Medicaid & who and what it covers.

      Liked by 4 people

    • backseatdog says:

      You may want those type of cost and deductible but most can’t afford that much with a family on wages they are getting now. You live in the wrong world

      Liked by 1 person

  20. Pam says:

    Liked by 3 people

    • WeThePeople2016 says:

      IMHO, I think Rand Paul want HIS bill passed, and won’t settle for anything else. He has been meeting secretly for months with the Freedom Caucus, and got them all wound up against anything the GOP leadership put out. When Jim Jordan was asked last week by Lou Dobbs if he and others are using the POTUS and Price plan, he hemmed and hawed in his response. Meadows does the same thing. They whine about it all the time. They also are disingenuous in not telling the whole truth on what they are proposing. Another things that bothers me is that some of the Freedom Caucus members were/are NeverTrumpers!!!

      Liked by 3 people

      • gamecock123 says:

        A few were Rand Paulbots, including Mulvaney. I still like Rand, he is no Trump however. Rand is by far more liked than Ryan and more credible. Ryan has stabbed the movement in the back and gut. I agree with the reconcilation move, I just wished Ryan would have humbled himself and let Rand be a team player. United would be a better sale.

        Like

  21. Fe says:

    Thank you once again for your mad skills at putting together very complex parts of how things work in the real world Sundance. I know I can come here, learn from you without the bullsh-t smoke and mirrors we get from the swamp. I will never forget how Nasty Harry Reid rammed this ACA down my throat. I cried a lot back in those dark days, feeling helpless to do anything about it. Cold cold colllld anger.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. osage44 says:

    I think Ryan et al, are on top of this and are on the right track. If Rand Paul had his way, he would derail Ryan’s Bill, leave the ACA in place, and then cry “I told you so” when everything comes crashing down. He is a non-serious and noxious gadfly.

    Liked by 3 people

  23. I’m going give to my opposition to this bill a rest. Although I prefer the wrecking ball method to destroy Obamacare, I see all the wonderful things Trump is doing to MAGA so I trust Trump knows what he’s doing for this too

    Liked by 3 people

  24. Howie says:

    Have anyone heard a word about liability reform? Not a peep. This is Moonbat Territory. Just give the tax credits to Docs to take on 15 percent of their patients who can’t get insurance or afford care. Do not subsidize the crooked health care plan companies.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Pinkie says:

    Dave Brat is calling for the Nuclear Option

    Like

  26. Joe Knuckles says:

    Congressmen, Senators and Know-it-All pundits continue claiming that they passed repeal bills previously. Are they all that dumb? Do they think repeal is synonymous with defunding? Do they just not know. Am I missing something here? Was there ever any repeal bill passed at any time? I know Sundance says no, so that’s what I’m going with, but can this many people in high places be that wrong?

    Like

  27. JohnS says:

    “The federal government should not be in the business of forcing its citizens to pay for its other citizen’s health care.”

    That ship sailed a very long time ago. Reagan signed a bill in the 1980’s requiring hospitals to treat every single person who came in their door, regardless of ability to pay.

    Liked by 4 people

  28. Pinkie says:

    One thing I don’t understand is why the Ways and Means and Energy and Commerce committees are pulling all nighters. Are they just grandstanding? Or do they want to get this POS out of committee before the CBO scores it?

    Like

  29. cycle1 says:

    People like Old Yeller (Mark Levin) just don’t get it and they probably never will (seems like we have said this before about him on other issues).

    Levin not only fails to see the what SD so clearly explains above, but I maintain that Levin continues to fail to see an even bigger picture. If we don’t show some palpable good results that works for a great majority of Americans, conservatives and Republicans will not continue to win elections.

    Importantly, Levin does not get the idea that we had our freedoms taken away incrementally and we will take them back incrementally in a way that is satisfactory to the vast majority of American people and thus continue to win elections. This will enable us to restore peoples’ Freedoms in a maximal way over time.

    Take the three steps like SD says. Trump is way smarter about anything, especially when it comes to making good deals for America and seeing the long range big picture.

    If it were up to Levin, Conservatives would not win control of anything again. Levin does not know how to win because he gets caught up in stuff that does not promote winning in both the short and long term.

    Donald Trump knows how to WIN. Period. And when I say win, I mean win for the American people.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Stringy theory says:

      Good comment.

      Liked by 2 people

    • cycle1 says:

      BTW. I don’t follow all the posts due to time constraints. Maybe the following is way off base as far as timing, but isn’t there going to be tax cuts soon? If we can show groups of people, how much money Trump’s tax policies will save (say younger people who might have to pay for health insurance) it will at least offset most healthcare costs, won’t it? Just throwing it out, don’t know the numbers (i.e., a little brainstorming not a definitive statement). Perhaps some you know the details on this.

      Like

    • sundance says:

      ….”Levin not only fails to see the what SD so clearly explains above, but I maintain that Levin continues to fail to see an even bigger picture”….

      Levin knows exactly what he’s doing. Levin doesn’t fail to see it, he knows exactly what I’m saying and he knows the truth.

      Don’t make the mistake of thinking he’s not aware. He is. I made that mistake for years, and excused him, before realizing he’s an actual fraud. He’s a con-man.

      Liked by 7 people

      • Maggie says:

        I have stopped reading the other comments on this thread – I just scan thru until I see any blue ones from Sundance – why waste my time on a bunch of moaning minnies?

        Like

      • cycle1 says:

        Thanks, SD. I never cease to learn new and valuable things from you. You website is invaluable.

        Like

    • majorstar says:

      The ideologues are killing America. On both sides of the aisle.

      Liked by 1 person

  30. WSB says:

    So, the latest idea I just heard on Fox is to get rid of the Byrd rule. I guess there is no reason for a dead Democrat Senator to get in the way of a Republicn bill, right?

    Liked by 1 person

  31. kallibella says:

    Thank you Sundance for this article.
    The critics are saying all kinds of things about it. I only have one question: if it is obamacare-lite, as some “conservatives” in Congress allege, why would our President say he is on board with it???!!!!
    Some are even saying that our President is being ill-advised and misguided as to how to best repeal and replace obamacare. So, my question is: are we truly convinced that our President is so ignorant so as to not know how things move in Congress???!!! For Pete’s sake!!! The man won a stunning electoral victory against all odds. He is very smart and he knows how to help this bill along until he signs it into law!!!!

    People in the punditry just love to hear themselves talk and are enamored of the sound of their voice!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Howie says:

      Good Grief. Just pass something so we can get to the good stuff in the budget battle. The RINOS will keep this disaster going until it is time for the Loot Splitting Festival. Then they will go for a continuing resolution with the baseline increases for Christmas.

      Liked by 1 person

  32. muffyroberts says:

    President Trump is a deal maker. Plus phase 3 will be closer to the mid terms. Congress member’s jobs will be on the line.

    Plus, maybe it will take until after the midterms to get phase three passed, after we vote in new people,

    Liked by 3 people

  33. wheatietoo says:

    It’s simple…

    Make Congress have to live under ObamaCare like the rest of us.

    Take away that ‘Waiver’ that they gave themselves!
    Can Pres Trump do that with an EO?
    I hope so.

    If Congress…both houses…had to be living under ObamaCare, then they would’ve already repealed it and replaced it with the great healthcare program that they are enjoying right now.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Howie says:

    Universal Access to Health Care is socialized medicine. Universal means everyone. What does Access mean? Access to what health care? Sorry, but I do not get it. Millions and millions of unproductives will have to get access. The democrats will outbid the GOP every time. Their next plan will have people washing your dishes and cutting your grass. This is insane and impossible to me. I can’t stand it. Quicksand.

    Liked by 2 people

  35. WeThePeople2016 says:

    Thank you SD for being reasonable on this. I have listened to both sides (Paul Ryan and Leadership and the Freedom Caucus and Rand Paul) for weeks now on this issue. I have come to the conclusion that on this time, Paul Ryan seems to know this Bill inside and out. He counters point by point about Rand Paul’s Bill, but Rand Paul cannot do the same in return.

    IMHO, I think Rand Paul want HIS bill passed, and won’t settle for anything else. He has been meeting secretly for months with the Freedom Caucus, and got them all wound up against anything the GOP leadership put out. When Jim Jordan was asked last week by Lou Dobbs if he and others are using the POTUS and Price plan, he hemmed and hawed in his response. Meadows does the same thing. They whine about it all the time. They also are disingenuous in not telling the whole truth on what they are proposing. Another things that bothers me is that some of the Freedom Caucus members were/are NeverTrumpers!!!

    Like

    • Pam says:

      You just hit the nail on the head about why I despise some of the freedom caucus. Yes, a some of them are NeverTrumpers (not all of them). With Rand Paul and the freedom caucus when it comes to health care, it’s apparently their way or the highway. They are being as ridiculous as the dems in that respect. As far as those who think we should sit back, do nothing, and let this whole thing implode, remember that’s exactly what POTUS does not want to do. He campaigned on repeal and replace. A lot of employers are not hiring because of this law and if this whole thing implodes with millions without any health coverage then you can guarantee it will have a huge impact on the economy and it won’t be good.

      Like

      • WeThePeople2016 says:

        Another thing the Freedom Caucus did not disclose is that they had ample time to sit in on meetings for months about the Law and to offer their input on changes. Ryan said today that the Leadership made two major changes to the Bill at their request and said it took a lot of work to do it. Ryan said that 12 members of the Freedom Caucus participated in the Healthcare meetings in the past months. That was the first time that I heard that.

        Like

    • Howie says:

      We have to get the economy kicking ass to be able to do anything at all. This health care scheme is holding that up. Pass something or keep Ocare for another year. Lets Go.

      Like

    • Zadig888 says:

      Would appreciate an article or post that fairly presents the major differences Rand Paul and Freedom Caucus have with what Sundance has shown us wrt to Ryan’s Presentation of his Bill.

      1) Does Rand Paul use this three step approach as per Ryan and Sundance’s presentations ?; and if NOT,

      2) How does he effect change without 60 votes in the Senate ?; OR,

      3) Do the majority of opponents to Ryan’s Bill prefer to Fail to get a vote in the senate and say “We tried to repeal it but the Dem’s blocked us”; and then hang the Obama care blow up around the Dem’s neck in 2018 elections ?

      Appreciate anyone that can enlighten me on this.

      Like

      • Hollywood Bungalow says:

        If the article from Forbes is correct, there is a zero percent chance of Rand’s bill passing. He knows this which is yet another reason why he doesn’t talk about it in front of the cameras.

        Liked by 1 person

  36. Paco Loco says:

    This is looking like a train wreck in slow motion. Get the government out of health insurance and let the free market work its magic. Republicans are experts at shooting themselves in the foot. ObamaCare is a huge mess that is imploding and it’s the Democrats tar baby not the Republicans. Let it fail. Why not take six months of experts giving options to a Health Insurance Task Force. Then put forth a plan that has had sufficient public input to identify and detail out a bi partisan consensus on the best solution.

    Like

    • Howie says:

      The GOP is stalling so Trump can’t cut the Loot. They will not do the crooked budget without the new health care scheme. The plan is for this dog and pony show to last all year. It is all about their Loot IMO. Just pass anything. Anything is better than Obamacare. I am for Option 4. Pass anything.

      Liked by 1 person

  37. wheatietoo says:

    Waivers.
    Obamacare Waivers.

    How about this…everybody gets a Waiver!

    Remember all those Waivers that Kathleen Sibelius gave to their ‘chosen few’?
    There were thousands of them.
    They expired after a couple of years…supposedly.

    Sec Price has the power to give everyone a Waiver, if they want one.
    The ‘precedent’ has already been set.

    If we can’t repeal ObamaCare…then let’s Waiver it to death!

    Like

    • Zadig888 says:

      Would like Trump to highlight the Rigged System of Legislation passed and regulations established for Americans that exempts the legistlators and their staffs and regulators from having to live by those rules along with everyone else.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Windy Day says:

        Have you ASKED Trump to get rid of this exemption? I have–twice. Go to whitehouse.gov (under the Participate tab) and let him know your thoughts!

        Like

        • Zadig888 says:

          Thanks Windy Day. Never noticed that Tab before. Just used the site to keep track of his cabinet appointments. Will make use of that.

          Like

    • Zadig888 says:

      ‘Cause it is more than just Obamacare that the ruling class are exempt from.

      Liked by 1 person

  38. Bruce says:

    repeal may take a long time. Unril I see different there is no reason not to trust Trump.

    Like

  39. The Byrd Rule states that reconciliation cannot be employed “if it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues”. And I’m not convinced that the Step 3 legslation would NOT produce a change in outlay or revenue. We’re talking about a) allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines, b) allowing associations to negotiate lower insurance rates for their members and c) liability tort reform.

    All of the legislation slated for Step 3 would reduce the cost of health care and eventually the cost of health insurance. This would result in lower deductions for out-of-pocket health care costs for everyone and lower health insurance costs (also deductible) for those individuals buying private insurance. Less deductions = increased tax revenue. So…if it effects revenue why can’t it be included in a reconciliation bill?

    Also, to pass Step 3 legislation, a 60 vote majority is still required under Ryan’s plan. There is NO guarantee that they will get any cooperation from the Dems in the Senate for this. There is a very good chance that we won’t be able to get ANY of the Step 3 legislation passed and then what?

    I would take what’s behind door number 1 – include EVERYTHING in the reconciliation bill and argue the points I made above. When inclusion of Step 3 measures are challenged by the Dems, let the Presiding Officer of the US Senate (Pence) rule on it (in our favor) and have done with it all at once.

    Like

    • WeThePeople2016 says:

      Both VP Pence and Paul Ryan said that Trump is going to CAMPAIGN in the states that have Dem Senators that Trump won big league in November. These are the states that the Dem Senators are up for re-election. They said that Trump is going to campaign on Phase 3 in those states. Bet you some of these Dems will vote for Phase 3.

      Like

      • Hollywood Bungalow says:

        If and when steps 1 and 2 are completed, red state Dems are not going to get in the way of more choice and more competition. And if they can’t get to 60 it’ll be a great tool for Republicans during the mid-terms.

        Like

  40. Pam says:

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Peter says:

    I’ve been swatting CONservative magpies all day. It’s absurd. Even here at the treehouse – so much emotional poppycock.

    We ain’t got the 60 votes you repeal crack pots. Stop with the drama, make it better, pass it.

    Like

  42. gary says:

    Let’s see:
    The insurance companies want to make a profit on health care.

    The politicians want to get elected and LOVE money that Insurance companies offer to get them elected.

    The Doctors and Hospitals want to make a profit on health care.

    Nurses and staff want to make money from health care.

    Sick people want to pay as little as possible for the BEST Health care on the planet.

    Drug Companies want to make a profit on selling stuff to sick people (who doctors write prescriptions for, and drug companies reward doctors that direct patients to take their drugs).

    It’s a mess! Lining up all these different players on the same page, how can it be done.

    Someone is going to get screwed. Who?

    Like

  43. Zadig888 says:

    Would it take to long to challenge ObamaCare again in the courts AND getting it (hopefully) to the Supreme Court AND having Judge Gorsuch (sp?) in position on the court by then, AND (hopefully) not having Justice Roberts support Contort himself to support ObamaCare AGAIN ?

    BTW, be nice if wikileaks had some documents showing that Obama Administration/Deep State had some unseemly leverage they used persuade Justice Roberts to do that about face at the last minute to support Obamacare during that “Is it a Tax or a Fee” challenge a few years ago.

    Like

  44. TheTorch says:

    The 3 stage approach is exactly the right way to go, and as pointed out actually the only viable option, to attempt a repeal and replace of Obamacare.

    You have to work with what you have and not fantasize about things that can never be delivered.

    There are only 52 Republicans in the Senate. Not a single Democrat will allow a repeal and replace of Obamacare. Just will not happen.

    As much as it pains me to say this and I say this as someone who has nothing but disdain for Rino Ryan, his presentation was good, and made the salient points pretty well, in some ways it is a reality check and a needed one for those that just don’t get it.

    There are a number of things working in favor of being able to achieve a repeal and replace of Obamacare. We now have a President in the white house who knows how to negotiate better than anyone. Republicans have control of both House and Senate. The HHS is headed by Tom Price who knows the industry and the 3 pronged approach inside out.

    Finally, people are underestimating just how badly this law was originally passed, it gave a lot of deference to HHS, to effectively rewrite a whole range of rules, along with various guidances. They never believed Obamacare would face a President Donald Trump or a head of HHS like Tom Price. That changes the entire ballgame – phase 2 you will see just how badly this law was engineered and ironically how helpful that will now be to start to slay this monstrosity.

    There is also another factor as well – in 2018 a lot of Dems are up for re-election. Phase 3 will allow the Republicans to get the Dems on record for voting against certain things that most Americans will agree with, that can be used against them effectively. Some Dems may actually come across the isle for phase 3 knowing that to obstruct could be fatal for their chances if facing re-election.

    Phase 1 can happen reasonably quickly, if the house and senate move swiftly and the required 51 Republicans do their job for once and get this through reconciliation. Tom price is ready to go with phase 2, with a whole raft of rule changes to roll out.

    In many ways this is a simple, but brilliant strategy, because the only things the Dems can do to slow down or block is in phase 3. They can’t do a damn thing about phase 1 and ironically phase 2 they created, and it will be used against them in spectacular fashion. Phase 3 they will mount their attack, and it is tougher, but political realities that will be looming at this stage, may make it a little easier than some think…

    The only way phase 1 and phase 2 can be derailed is by republicans, with a Levin type mentality, which basically ensures that nothing is ever achieved, much time is wasted, and meanwhile the country suffers for it. Being ideologically pure on repeal and replacement of Obamacare, may sound nice and make you feel good, but in reality it will only ensure you damage the very Presidency you worked so hard for and prayed for. Time to get real. There is a pathway to achieving repeal and replace, but it has to be done with this 3 pronged approach, nothing else is a viable option.

    BTW – just a thought but does anyone really believe that it won’t be possible to peel off 8 Dems in phase 3, if the tax cuts are on the way, jobs are booming, the economy is humming, 2018 is approaching. Hmm…

    Liked by 2 people

    • WeThePeople2016 says:

      My sentiments exactly, Torch! Ditto! As I posted above, both VP Pence and Paul Ryan said that Trump is going to CAMPAIGN in the states that have Dem Senators that Trump won big league in November. These are the states that the Dem Senators are up for re-election. They said that Trump is going to campaign on Phase 3 in those states. You bet that some of these Dems will vote for Phase 3.

      Like

  45. xyzlatin says:

    Did anybody notice at about minute 28 of the video, that Paul Ryan started waving his hand in what I call the “Trump pincer crab movement”, exactly like Pres Trump? All the cartoonists draw Trump with that hand position. I got the giggles watching as he has picked up the gesture from Trump. Someone just has to incorporate this into a rap song and it will be all the rage like the Hokey Pokey was all those years ago. Imagine lawmakers all doing the pincer movement as they give speeches.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Mike says:

    If you want to get up to speed on what’s going on with Healthcare, read the above article. Sundance breaks it down simply and painlessly. Also, you can say what you want about Paul Ryan, but he did a fine job of educating and explaining in the 35 minute vid. It helps to fill in blanks too.

    Trump and the GOP, despite some gaffs, crossed wires, and confusion, and doing this 50X better than the Dems did with Obamacare. They, Team Trump, are making it transparent and explaining things as they go. Obama and the Dems kept things hidden and then mocked people who criticized them.

    It sure looks like it’s going in the right direction to me.

    Like

    • WeThePeople2016 says:

      Believe it or not, Paul Ryan did a fine job explaining it on Hannity’s radio show this afternoon as well, except that he talked to fast. He knows the Law inside and out, and he explained it in full detail.

      Liked by 1 person

      • WeThePeople2016 says:

        “he talked too fast.”

        Like

      • Alexsandra says:

        I heard him. Do not concur it was a fine job. Mainly spitty fast talking.

        Like

        • WeThePeople2016 says:

          I think he tried to get it all in before Hannity cuts in, which he has a tendency to do a lot. He was clear and concise in his responses. My husband listened to it on his ride home from work, and he said the same thing.

          Like

        • Alexsandra says:

          A reminder that fast talkers usually began that way in their childhood or youth pummeling people with their opinions or making excuses (which always requires a LOT of talk). And reminder that Trump is aware of that — “talk, talk, talk, no action”,

          Conversely, Trump is a builder who has a vision for the end result of a project but has had to repeatedly see his projects go through the hands of incompetents and governmental regulations groups, i.e. Mara Lago and the US Post Office project, yet despite all the processes the end results have come out in accordance with his vision.

          Like

          • WeThePeople2016 says:

            This is not in defense of Ryan, but that is generalizing about people who talk fast and is not necessarily true. There are people who talk fast by nature; it is who they are – their personality and temperament just like there are people who talk slow. Nothing wrong with either way.
            Actually, that is the first time that I heard Ryan talk that fast. I honestly think it was because he tried to get as much in before he was cut off by Hannity.

            Like

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