Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – The Crossfire and The Four Dead Bodies We Don’t See…

One of the more frustrating aspects to the Waco “Twin Peaks” biker shooting story is the lack of photographic references to aid in a full understanding of the proximity of all the characters, suspects and witnesses involved.

However, after reviewing hundreds of media articles showing bits and pieces of the event we finally have some optical references for a story as it is told.

But before going to that aspect another controversial point should be expressed.

No-one here is saying the police, in totality, did anything wrong.  Conversely, it would be unfair to think EVERYONE, who were rounded up as 170 ‘conspiracy suspects’ and who were detained in the aftermath, is guilty of murder.

waco 24 mugshots

There are many concerning aspects which need sunlight regarding the immediate police response to whatever caused the spark of violence.  Similarly, there are concerning aspects about the wholesale arrest of ‘bikers’, or unaffiliated motorcycle riders, purely due to their proximity to a violent event they did not participate in.

Hopefully, anyone vested in the interests of lawful due process (ie. everyone) would be concerned with ‘wholesale roundups’.

Think about the following analogy.

Remember when the two Ferguson Police Officers were shot while standing post outside their police department?

Imagine the response from the community, national media, and the larger U.S. population if the riot clad police had rushed across the street and arrested everyone in the vicinity; rounding up the crowd along West Florissant Ave., from where the shots originated.

ferguson shots 4

jeffrey williams ferguson fight 3

jeffrey williams - ferguson fight

Imagine those Ferguson protesters being rounded up, taken to a convention center for processing, and then held on million dollar bonds while the police began their investigation into who did what, where and when.

Sure there are differences; and to avoid semantics and a litany of inbound protestations, I am not trying to equivocate the shooting of police in Ferguson to the shooting in Waco Texas.  I’m simply asking readers to pause and contemplate the aspect of proximity arrest, or guilt by association, against the backdrop of individual due process.

We firmly stand on the principle that our legal system is based on a premise that: “it is better to let 100 guilty men go free, than to convict a singular innocent man wrongly“.

In Waco Texas, currently, this legal principle has been turned on its head.

Amid the 170 arrested motorcycle riders, there are bound to be many, perhaps dozens, who will have absolutely no charges brought against them because there simply is no justifiable evidence to support their continued incarceration.

Yet they remain sitting in jail, right now.

waco 8justice_scales

One attorney is trying to change that by filing motions on behalf of two of the accused (Link Here).  Whether he succeeds or not is unknown.  However, the basic tenet behind his motion(s) is fundamentally solid.

No American who believes in ‘due process’ should be applauding the continued incarceration of the transparently innocent; even if that innocent is merely one hidden amid a group of 170.

As a nation of free people, ruled by laws, conceived around the principle that liberty is the most valued disposition, all of us should be worried about the approach being taken by the Waco judiciary.

There but for the grace of God – and a decision to eat chicken wings in the wrong place at the wrong time, while selecting a seemingly unappreciated mode of transportation – go I.

I digress.

To our central discussion point of what took place:

Several days ago, May 20th, we received an email from a distraught family member of one of the incarcerated.  The email contained an outline of a brief discussion the writer had with her husband, who was a witness to part of the events, and arrested in the aftermath.

Because we could not verify nor vet properly the information, we tabbed it and tucked it away for reference.

We still cannot substantiate the full content.  However, we have been able to locate visual information which does align with the general gist of the story as shared.  Visual information that was not known to the sender, and unknown to us as we continued to review hundreds of stories, links, pictures and scour the little information that is still surfacing on the local Texas media sites.

Additionally, nothing has surfaced which refutes or disputes the story as it was shared.

In very short form the version shared was of a biker who did not belong to an organized motorcycle club but who saw a flyer for a “legislative affairs discussion event which outlines current regulatory policy as it relates to motorcycle riders” at a local bike shop.

So he decides to attend and see what it was about, whether it would be anything of interest, and what topics of legislative discussion would relate specifically to motorcycle riders.

He arrived at the venue moments before the shooting took place, and not knowing anyone decided to walk in the front door.  Walking past the registration table set up under a portable canopy, when he first heard gunshots.

Not knowing what to do he froze in place, heard more shots, and the sound of bullets he perceived as generally whistling by his vicinity.  He ran back toward his bike, deciding it was safer to lay in the grass.  He had no idea what was going on behind him when he reached the grass, and so he crouched down and headed for cover near a Dark Blue SUV.

When he reached the SUV, he heard gunshots from the area he was now in.  He saw what he later described as a SWAT officer, or police officer of some form, in a firing position, on the other side of the SUV; and so he thought he had put himself in a dangerous proximity to fire.

He made the decision to jump into the grass several yards away, and behind the SUV.  There he laid on his stomach with his head down.   After several moments of silence he heard the command to ‘stay down’, and not knowing if the command was directed to him, to everyone, or to anyone specifically, he just decided to remain laying there.

Approximately 30 minutes later a police officer came and took him back toward the Twin Peaks parking lot into a police vehicle.  He was cuffed without further explanation and after approximately an hour in the back of the vehicle was driven to the convention center.

There he remained quietly, not wanting to talk to anyone; for several more hours until he, along with a host of others, were transferred to jail.  He was permitted one monitored phone call to his wife on the 3rd day (Tuesday May 19th) where he told her what happened and asked for help.

This person thought (wrongly) he was only going to be questioned by LEO as a possible witness to the events, and then released.  It was described, as written, as “living a nightmare”.

Again, we have no way to verify, validate, or authenticate this story.  Nor do we wish to.

Those of you who know the research we do, fully understand why we remain intentionally detached from people contained inside the stories we research.   The truth has no agenda, and it is entirely more valuable for objectivity and truth finding when you hold no disposition as to the outcome where truth is found.

However, that said – this entire SWAT fire aspect is now beginning to surface.

Here are some general pictures of the vicinity, along with my own definitions for later reference.

Waco 26 overall view

This is the front entrance ↑ of the Twin Peaks building (front doors slightly off picture on left) along with the portable canopy and registration table as it was described. –click to enlarge– Note the don Carlos restaurant on right.  Notice the grassy area between the police car and the front of the building.   Two important things to also note:  ♦ First notice how the patio wraps around the building from front toward the back.  ♦ Second, notice the white pickup truck on the lower right.  That is the pickup truck from this next image:

Waco 25 cop vehicle search

Here is another picture of the front ↓:

WACO twin peaks

The front doors ↑ are more clear, and the size of the patio which wraps the building is more evident.  Again you can reference the registration canopy.

Here’s another with SWAT unit members and investigators ↓:

waco 26 front with SWAT

Now, here is an aerial picture of the back ↓:

Waco 26 overall back composite

Again, click to enlarge as needed.  From this overhead perspective (the back looking toward the front). Notice the White Pickup (center top).  Notice the location of Don Carlos (left).  Notice the grassy area in the front (top). AND importantly => Notice the location of the SWAT MRAP (far left behind Don Carlos).

Here is a picture of the side (from the perspective of being above Don Carlos).  Notice again the white pickup truck. Notice again the length of the patio (from the front, left, toward the rear, right).  Notice the base of the Twin Peaks sign (looks like a phone pole on left)

waco 11

If you click on this image (above) and enlarge – you will also see bullet impacts to the front of the vehicles parked rear in, and impacts in the rear of the vehicles parked nose in.

Here is a close up picture of the side from street level (zoomed) ↓:

waco 26 muzzle rise

Notice the headlights are on indicating little time to respond (urgent dismount, from the riders).

Now, with a general grasp of the geography being discussed, remember back to the story as shared.

Look closely at this image:

waco twin peaks from Don Carlos

Do you see the SUV on the left.  Also look at this enlarged and zoomed image of the same picture:

waco twin peaks from Don Carlos 2

Some of those evidence cones are clearly marking shell casings.  Possible SWAT/LEO sniper location.  Notice also that’s a heck of a long rapid fire shot, even with training.

Now check out this picture from a slightly modified perspective (click to enlarge):

Waco Shooting

For perspective ↑ : Notice the back end of the white Pickup truck (lower right corner).  Notice the Canopy (lower left).  But look closely in the grass in the image above.  Enlarged below ↓:

Waco Shooting

Again, what appear to be evidence markers, in an area a considerable distance from the restaurant indicating possible shell casings from SWAT/LEO sniper fire.

Against the backdrop of the witness story as shared, the visible locations as indicated make sense from the perspective of the witness.

Considering the known firing positions, evidenced by the location of shell casing markers; and considering the location of SWAT equipment, evidenced by MRAP;  A triangulation of fire is visibly noted.

waco 11 - 1

In this video you can see uniformed Waco PD officers returning fire from the Don Carlos parking lot.  Essentially, the SWAT MRAP would be off screen right behind the building and behind their firing location:

We know from Spox Swanton that 22 officers were pre-positioned prior to the event; including: 10 members of Waco PD SWAT, 2 Sergeants, 1 rookie, and an Asst. Police Chief.

waco 26 SWAT

None of this proves the story of the witness as told – though it does align. However, neither does it disprove the story.  Heck, nothing is provable or disprovable with current information, and we all note the Waco PD are in no hurry to provide updates.

Lastly, and this might be the most important aspect that EVERYONE is overlooking, amid the pictures we have been able to research and find, you’ll note that in every single one of them there’s only THREE or FOUR visible dead bodies – yet nine people were killed.

Waco PD Spokesperson W. Patrick Swanton has said nine people were killed; one of those died in the hospital – that leaves 8 people who were killed on the scene.  Yet we only see 3 or four bodies in all of the visible pictures.

♦ Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, 65, died of gunshot wounds of the head and trunk.
♦ Jacob Lee Rhyne, 39, died of gunshot wounds to the neck.
♦ Richard Vincent Kirshner, Jr., 47, died of gunshot wounds but the report did not specify where he was shot.
♦ Richard Matthew Jordan, III, 31, died of gunshot wounds to the head.
♦ Wayne Lee Campbell, 43, died of gunshot wounds to the head and trunk.
♦ Daniel Raymond Boyett, 44, died of gunshot wounds to the head.
♦ Matthew Mark Smith, 27, died of gunshot wounds to the trunk
♦ Manuel Issac Rodriguez, 40, died of gunshot wounds but the report did not specify where he was shot.
♦ And Charles Wayne Russell, 46, died of gunshot wounds to the chest.

Waco PD Spokesperson W. Patrick Swanton said: “three were killed in the parking lot, one body was found dragged behind the building, and four were killed in the front of the restaurant“.

Meaning it is entirely possible those four were killed “on the porch/patio” of Twin Peaks – which is not coincidentally the location where CCTV cameras are located and AP reporters (who watched the video) have stated only one person displayed a firearm on that patio.

It is therefore entirely possible that four people were killed as a result of their proximity being the backdrop of the downrange fire from the positioned police department who missed their parking lot target(s).   Four bodies on the porch/patio, hence we cannot see them in any pictures, who could very likely be completely innocent victims of inbound gunfire from the police department.

Waco PD are withholding the CCTV video from Twin Peaks and no media is putting pressure upon them to release it.  Will that video show four people shot as they tried to get into the safe cover of the restaurant interior?

update-1UPDATE 5/27/15 2:00pm:  We just received confirmation that Don Carlos has a CCTV camera at their vestibule (front door) which, as a consequence to the camera angle, is directly aimed at the Twin Peaks side parking lot.  The camera is to the left as you walk in the front door.

Waco 26 overall view

Is the issue of unintentional victims why the Waco PD has put so much media emphasis on the “weapons” they discovered inside the building itself?  Because they need a narrative of ‘possible risk’?

Are those four dead people victims of police fire? Is that why this entire event does not pass the sniff test, and it appeared from the outset the Waco PD were trying desperately to get out ahead of the story?

Only time will tell, and absent of a seriously critical media we are left to scour scant resources for what information we can piece together.  So why do this?

….Because, beside the growing probability there are innocent victims, there are also 170 people out of work, missing paychecks, away from their families, and they have lost their freedom and liberty -quite possibly out of paranoia on behalf of the police department- and some of them, even if only one amid the 170,  will be found to be transparently innocent.

That ONE person could just as easily be YOU or ME….

….. if we happen to go to the wrong place, at the wrong time, and find ourselves surrounded with the wrong people.  Unfortunately, I doubt either of us will be afforded the benefit  of a politically correct police department afraid to cross the street.

ferguson shots 1

Your thoughts? 

♦ Waco Research Thread 1 – The initial Shooting As Reported
♦ Waco Research Thread 2 – LEO Affidavits Inconsistent With Spokesperson Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 3 – The Waco Police Narrative Continues To Evolve
♦ Waco Research Thread 4 – CCTV Video Refutes Original 3 Days of Police Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 5 – Listen to the Waco PD Radio Traffic
♦ Waco Research Thread 6 – 14 Officers Were Shooting – Report: “Thousands of rounds”
♦ Waco Research Thread 7 –  Washington Post eye-witness account
♦ Waco Research Thread 8 –  The Fill-in-the-blank Probable Cause Affidavit

This entry was posted in 2nd Amendment, 4th Amendment, 6th Amendment, Abusive Cops, Agitprop, Big Stupid Government, Conspiracy ?, Death Threats, media bias, Police action, Political correctness/cultural marxism, Professional Idiots, propaganda, Typical Prog Behavior, Waco - Twin Peaks. Bookmark the permalink.

319 Responses to Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – The Crossfire and The Four Dead Bodies We Don’t See…

  1. smiley says:

    out of all the GUNS confiscated from the bikers there, that day, from that incident, how many of those bikers’ guns had been fired, that day, at that incident ?

    Liked by 4 people

    • bertdilbert says:

      Under Waco rules, any cop guilty of or suspected of a crime would make the entire police force subject to arrest and massive bail (to prevent retaliation).

      Liked by 4 people

      • partyzantski says:

        “Waco Rules” sounds like some unintended consequences, to me.
        There is something visual I just can’t quite name that is the difference between Ferguson, with cops unwilling to cross a street after 2 of their guys get tagged and Waco, where some event happened and 9 people die in a triangulated hail of police gunfire. Is it the beards? the “cuts”? Perhaps the bikers were obese and THAT drew attention and marked them as part of a criminal conspiracy… the difference I am sure is as plain as black & white, it is just in front of me… if only I could see 😦

        Consider this- as Americans, we have better news coverage and a clear satellite image in the news of North Korean political killings by anti-aircraft guns than we do of this event.

        It would be fascinating to learn the connectedness between those killed. It might explain the why of it all. Does anyone even know the names of the 9? Are their loved ones under gag order? The longer this goes on, the problems will become unbridgeable chasms.

        Liked by 2 people

        • smiley says:

          speaking of “beards”, and I’m not being facetious, who is that one LE guy with the odd “biker” beard and the cowboy boots standing w/ his rifle, who we saw in a photo, posted in an earlier thread ?
          something about him seems a little “off” to me still.
          who is he ?

          Like

          • bertdilbert says:

            I am still waiting for the “more to the story” to come out like one of the cops daughters was going out with one of the bikers.

            Like

          • OP says:

            Probably the insider informant, he is definitely dressed as part of the bikers…not looking like a cop.

            Like

      • archer52 says:

        Not unless you can prove the cops worked together in a criminal fashion toward a criminal goal. Rampart for example.

        Or how about Baltimore, where the DA arrested the three white cops who did nothing wrong to balance out the color scheme of the rest of the cops so she could push her agenda forward.

        there are no “waco rules.”

        Liked by 2 people

    • OP says:

      Waco police department scrubbed their Facebook page of all of SGT Swanton’s narrative, all 3 of his posts with detailed narrative…gone

      Liked by 1 person

    • They don’t know because they didn’t do so much as GSR Tests on a single biker.

      Like

  2. 1american1st says:

    In reference to Ferguson: Every looter, shooter & arsonist SHOULD have been rounded up & held on $1 Million bail. Missed opportunity. And after convicted & served time should be forced to pay retribution for the damage, even it meant confiscating their welfare checks, which means the Taxpayers still have to pay for it, but only once rather than twice.

    Liked by 4 people

    • smiley says:

      different “leadership/orders” in Ferguson.

      Liked by 2 people

      • doodahdaze says:

        As noted above we have the lack of critical media in this case. The outlaw biker clubs are not in a Social Justice protected class. The black criminals and rioters of Ferguson, are in a Social Justice protected class.

        Liked by 5 people

        • smiley says:

          and how’s that working out in, say, Baltimore right about now ?
          LE is totally demoralized, and conducting what seems to be maybe their own type of “protest”.
          don’t blame ’em, either.
          but that’s a subject for a different thread..

          Liked by 1 person

    • Dixie says:

      not a “missed opportunity” but one which was purposely avoided.

      Like

  3. Arkindole says:

    First time I have seen the casing photos on the knoll near the sign pole. You can see a possible shooter at the SUV doing what is taught in training. Standing right of the vehicle and beginning fire, moving laterally parallel to the road, in front of the suv, then advancing toward the target. You have a standard tactical shoot and move. By the time the sign pole was reached there would be a new mag in and an old mag out-old mag on the ground. There will be lots of bullet impact skip marks on the asphalt with that firing position.

    Like

  4. doodahdaze says:

    I would say first, was the person who was not a Bandido or a Cossack “unarrested?” The arrest affidavits are based on membership in one or the other MC’s. Now the WACO LEO’s are in CYA mode no doubt. State is going to have a hard time with these cases.

    Like

    • smiley says:

      seems to be a trend nowadays to “overcharge” in order for DOJ to step in.
      not saying that’s what this is, necessarily.
      just saying…

      Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        If you look at the arrest affidavits they say that the person arrested is a member or ‘associate’ of the two clubs. Most of the bikers will walk once the facts start emerging and individual cases are heard. The prosecutors and cops are trying to concoct charges as they go at this point.

        Like

        • Tonawanda says:

          Actually, the affidavit posted here previously does not say that person (Warren) belonged either to the Bandidos or the Cossacks. It does not state what “gang” he belonged to.

          If, as has been asserted elsewhere and is still awaiting verification, members of Christian clubs and “Mom and Pop” clubs, or no club at all, were arrested, it appears that the probable cause affidavits were deliberately written to justify the arrest of innocent people.

          Moreover, the affidavit was deliberately false insofar it asserted in every case that the arrested person wore a “sign or symbol” (never specified) of a criminal street gang.

          Why arrest innocent people? That is what we want to know.

          Liked by 1 person

          • smiley says:

            and why withhold the cctv video this long ?
            if that video supports LE’s narrative for this, wouldn’t LE want it made available..isn’t that important?
            newsworthy?
            is there ANY actual reporting of “the news” these days ?
            or is it always just : pushing a narrative ?

            Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            Normally you would conduct an investigation then make an arrest. Here the made the arrests and then conducted the investigation to try to justify the arrests. Someone made the decision to make the mass arrests. I would like to know who.

            It is odd that they have yet to break down the arrests by gangs. Very interesting.

            My guess the mass arrests were made to obtain fingerprints and DNA. The State Organized Crime charge was the vehicle they used to accomplish it.

            Liked by 4 people

            • Jett Black says:

              Normally, LLE would also not set up a killing field in a private shopping center/restaurant parking lot, either. I know I’ll no longer ignore my wife’s admonishment to drive around parking lots looking for a “really good” parking spot and I’ll be looking for any MRAPs or other out of the ordinary LE vehicles, which if seen, will signal my immediate exit from the vicinity. Talk about stank! This scenario had it from well before the first shots were fired, whoever fired them.

              Liked by 3 people

              • oldiadguy says:

                I don’t think the LEO’s set up a killing field. I suspect at this point that some of their number may have over reacted or fired at what they perceived to be a threat without considering the safety of others on the scene.

                Like

                • Jett Black says:

                  Triangulated fire from pre-set locations that were apparently/probably established before anything happened–sounds like an ambush set up to me. That’s basically what SD’s post described. Hiding the MRAP off to the side also gives a strong impression that the LEOs thought they were setting up for an ambush, not a “protect and serve,” bust a couple of rowdies event, nor to prevent violence by a show of force. I’d be willing to bet, if they’d parked the MRAP right out in the open overlooking the parking lot, nothing at all would’ve happened at Twin Peaks, other than some drankin’, eatin’, jawin’, and oglin’. I understand that Bandidos and some other 1%ers are extra-bad and not assuming the 1%ers didn’t “start it” but the LEOs’ approach is very troubling.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pspsst says:

                  Oh, but indeed, it was a highly visible scene that was the goal. Sometimes, just sometimes, one can’t be choosy when a near win for biker safety legislation, hard won, and being shared and celebrated on the 17th of May is going forward. It had to be stopped. This has all the markings of a desperate entity. The dark SUV to the side of Don Carlos is stationed purposely if you look at the straight on view the LEs stationed there, had. Two bodies lie to either side of their straight line of vision, with a third to the side patio of TP, exactly as SD describes. The rear parked white truck with bullets takes on some of the straight hits and absorbs the bullets. The likely four shot, out of our view at the front of the TP entrance were not shielded from vehicles and therefore took the hits. Rodrigues, the purple heart was probably one of those not involved in the supposed dispute. What bad luck it is for the LE sniper.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Addendum: A fourth body is located to the side of Don Carlos on the ground near the plastic-covered windows, to far right of the Don Carlos sign post (under a gas meter). This body is also aligned radially from the dark SUV location. Iows, all four bodies radiate from centerpoint being the darkened SUV.

                  May is designated annually as Biker Safety Month in Waco. Irony just asking to be played for the public’s edification.

                  Like

    • bertdilbert says:

      Looking for uniformity in mugshots, it seems that two bikers at least are not wearing orange. Any significance to that?

      Like

  5. LadyRavenSDC says:
  6. manickernel says:

    1.) Looks like overall range from three positions was about 30, 50, and 80 yards. In any case, officers using handguns from any position other than grassy knoll (another one in Texas?) were making a questionable decision.
    2.) Narrative from meeting participant’s wife, if true, shows that police allowed the guy to flee to police rear SUV position without getting shot. So he is lucky.
    3.) The conundrum faced by the onsite commander as to fire. This keeps going through my head. You have two armed groups, one (Bandidos) that appear to have arrived and initiated hostilities, resulting in considerable retaliation by Cossacks. Level of gunfire uncertain but can be assumed at least 10-20 involved. Do you pick sides? Do you request a ceasefire? According to Swanton they considered it an active shooter due to civilian presence at Don Carlos and elsewhere and engaged. Was there any warning? While not a wonderful solution I could agree as long as only precision fire was brought to bear. We will see. As to only one guy coming off patio with gun, it is kind of self-explanatory why others may not have. Either they fled immediately or decided to fire from edge of patio at police or Bandidos, and I doubt police could determine who they were shooting at.
    .

    Like

  7. LadyRavenSDC says:

    “So why do this” – I am clear it wasn’t a question but I am grateful you are. In about twenty different ways this whole thing is fubar and I believe anyone following these posts – no matter their position – knows something is very wrong and your efforts definitely fall into the category of a “just cause.”

    “We are not the “peaceful” generation; we won’t just watch. We are not the “greatest” generation; we don’t need a cause. We are a different kind of generation. We are the Heroes of Lost Fucking Causes. Imagine what we could do if we had a truly just cause, perhaps restoring liberty to our own homes.”
    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/the-heroes-of-lost-causes/

    Liked by 1 person

    • rmnewt says:

      Could be the movie generation. In Mad Max the bikers were bad.
      Talk about profiling, the crime the 170 are held on was riding a bike to the bikefest or so it seems.

      Liked by 3 people

  8. andi lee says:

    There is actually 4 bodies if you refer to the daylight photos, and by using the downed blue motorcycle with body next to it (police scanner: blue motorcycle with lights on?), (first death, the PROSPECT, that almost got his foot ran over, per news article account by the anonymous Cossack hiding in fear) as focal point. In that article was reference to a “gimmi jimmy”, but actually if one googles “gimmi jimmi” one would find a James (Jim) Graves, and reference to both, the leader of the SA Bandidos chapter (recent article he himself references himself as an ambassador to SAB), and president of the Confederate Group. They renew themselves as a group after every RICO charge, yet Jeff Pike remains squeeky clean. Likeable, even.

    Like

    • BobNoxious says:

      Based on this pic, the guy laying dead next to the blue bike is probably not a prospect as it appears as though he is wearing the Texas rocker patch on his vest- it would be unlikely for a prospect to be allowed to wear full colors prior to being an official member (the blurred out portion of the photo shows a blood pool, FYI).

      Like

    • davsel says:

      There appears to be a fifth body by the Don Carlos Restaurant according to this photo (upper right):

      Like

    • davsel says:

      You can see the restaurant logo and gas meter at the bottom of this pic:

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Tonawanda says:

    The fact that the soviet media has deemed this a non-story is a chilling thought. The question to ask is, why do they not want this story to be part of the daily leftist narrative.

    I think for multiple reasons, but the one possibility which concerns me, is that this type of potential police misconduct is perfectly acceptable if the misconduct (e.g., mass arrests without individualized probable cause) does not affect a favored leftist group.

    Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      Oh, the MSM is running bits here and there. NBC had the one below, which basically is saying beware these gangs as they are hiring mercenary ex-military killers. And Falco is really starting to piss me off.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/omg-motorcycle-gangs-recruit-military-soldiers-n364731

      Like

      • smiley says:

        here we go again with the “ex-military” meme.
        heads up, ex-military.
        mercenary ex-military killers.
        yeah…like the pesky amish.

        Like

      • Dixie says:

        What in the hell did they expect. With the lawlessness being perpetrated by the CIC, the misrepresentation of America in the history books, with the progressive influence in the schools, IMHO, they are creating a situation such as this. All the while that the unpatriotic influence occurs, there are undercurrents going the other way.

        Like

    • BobNoxious says:

      I think the 100 year floods in Texas, combined with the lack of new news is largely responsible for the change in coverage surrounding this event.

      Like

      • michellc says:

        I call bs, the media makes time to cover what they want and push what they want.

        Out of curiosity I just turned the tv on to CBS this morning they’re talking to an actress from Mad Men.

        I’ve been seeing the national news at night still talking about Baltimore.

        Like

    • Jett Black says:

      It’s not a “possibility” MSM thinks this is pretty much OK. It’s a certainty. It does nearly deafen them with dissonance, though, b/c they all want to fancy themselves free spirits, like the bikers and probably still swoon over “Easy Rider,” but they want LE to work as their jack-booted tools to crush any real freedom.

      Liked by 1 person

    • bertdilbert says:

      “The fact that the soviet media has deemed this a non-story is a chilling thought.”

      Well if you are looking for Russian media to make up for shortcomings of US MSM that might be a more chilling thought!

      I think Russian media would be more inclined to show public disorder/ unhappy Americans as in Ferguson or Baltimore. Now if the bikers were looting and burning things down it might become an interest story.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jujube22 says:

      I think the media is waiting for the Waco PD to start the real cover-up. AP and Washington Post seem to be willing to go further on this story but they need something more to really start an investigation. This story is just beginning….

      Like

  10. georgiafl says:

    So, the gathering was about a motorcycle law?

    Maybe TPTB don’t want any more million biker rides to DC and elsewhere where the hogs drown out whiny leftist demonstrations.

    Personally, I’d like to see our borders patrolled by armed ex-military bikers. That would be a fun round up.

    Liked by 4 people

    • smiley says:

      I’ve read, and I think I’ve posted in another thread, that there was also open-carry legislation about to be voted on at around that same time.
      FWIW

      Liked by 1 person

  11. libby says:

    Janet Reno could have done worse.
    .
    And they was usin’ up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hangin’
    Around the Police Officer Station. They was takin’ plaster tire tracks,
    Footprints, dog-smellin’ prints and they took twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored
    Glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of
    Each one explainin’ what each one was, to be used as evidence against us.
    Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner, the
    Southwest corner . . .
    And that’s not to mention the aerial photography!
    .
    Seems like Philly Move, but with the media having its eyes closed super tight saying”I see nothing”.
    .
    Where is the racist DOJ?
    If a bunch of black bikers were shot up in similar fashion the media would be all over it.
    Hollyweird would fall over itself with pronouncements of police militarization.
    O would, you know.
    And DOJ would step in.
    But, you know.
    Wrong color.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Tonawanda says:

      “Seems like Philly MOVE”
      We don’t know enough yet to characterize, but Attica is another potential comparison.
      But neither example would be quite appropriate if the bigger picture is more like Germany in the 30’s.
      We just don’t know. But it is foolhardy (IMO) to not care or question.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jett Black says:

      Love me some Alice’s Restaurant! Thanks for reminding me! No fan of Arlo’s and his family’s politics, but the music and wit is worthy. If you’ve got very thick callouses on your sensibilities and an easy sense of humor, check out Arlo’s and Willie Nelson’s daughters’ group, Folk Uke. The name conveys the essence.

      Like

  12. mpmp2015 says:

    Looking at all of the mugs shots at once, you kind of see that the biker gangs were….somewhat racially diverse reflecting the correct percentage of the US population. Thus debunking the myth that all biker gangs are Caucasians.

    Like

  13. joshua says:

    a lot of information and hyperbole…well, Ferguson…folks across the street were not an aggregated common gang…merely having black skin in different from riding into a town in full biker regalia and aggregating at a common meeting place to hold some kind of cross gang conference. The arrested folks were joined, not merely gathered. They were all arrested in the heat of the conflict…as much to preserve those that were from out of town (most of them) while the perps in the event could get legally sorted out…not some kind of vacuuming up people deal…but because the MIGHT be guilty of criminal behavior….with adequate cause to suspect them by their demonstrated group club affiliation attire. Like it or not, the issue is it takes time and resource to allow such a huge event to get sorted out…..why else does the Obama administration insist it takes too much time and resources to sort out the illegal aliens who have come into the USA in order to know who to deport, who to jail, who to fine, and who to grant refuge to?

    This is not a media driven event in Waco, thank the Lord. And in my opinion, it should not be suspect on the internet of undue critical demands of constitutional political correctness.

    Ferguson might have been better served, including the rest of the nation….had a rational set of LEO charged across the street and detained everyone there and sorted them out as to why they were there and were they in violation of ANY prior court orders, probations, warrants, etc. But that did not happen, and LEGALLY, they were not in any way HOMOGENOUS other than skin color and perhaps social demeanor.

    Like

    • James F says:

      There were joined “gangs” within the ferguson movement like “lost voices” whose member Joshua plead guilty to arson and they were responsible for assaulting the white college kid at the church.

      And there is no proof that all the bikers were part of an organized criminal organization.

      Like

      • James F says:

        Correction: lost voices Joshua confessed to arson but his lawyer pled not guilty and he is currently out on a measly 30k bond.

        Like

    • James F says:

      There was also a heavy presence of bonafide criminal gang members participating in Ferguson and Baltimore riots, as widely reported.

      Several gang members involved in Monday’s riots—self-described “soldiers” with Baltimore gangs that include the Bloods, Crips, Gangster Disciples, Black Guerilla Family, Young Gorilla Family, Purple City, and Highlandtown Soldiers—likened their experiences with police in recent years to those of radicalized young Muslims abroad; young men who’d been driven to extremism by American military actions in the Middle East.
      http://www.newsweek.com/freddie-gray-protests-unite-baltimore-gang-members-326503

      Like

      • pspsst says:

        Mass “confusion” is more the term. Innocent bikers and attendees there on a Sunday afternoon in broad day light were relaxing and looking forward to good news about a probable win for enthusiasts, vintage bikers, mom and pop riders concerned about road safety for motorcyclists. We know motorcyclist dangers from cars are an ongoing issue for the past 18 years of more. Here we had a possible win at an upcoming vote for legislation in favor of bike safety. Next thing they know, the attendees are caught off guard being mowed down by snipers from god knows where. They’re still confused. We’re confused. Lies are being dessiminated by LEs within hours which totally contradict evidence. Livelihoods are being lost. The chaos is what is now happening among the innocent jailed. The confusion at the scene was beset by LEs.

        Don’t get me wrong though, treeps, both LEs and the bikers were set up by current admin.

        Wolverines!!!

        Liked by 3 people

        • pspsst says:

          Oops, this was a comment intended to follow SD’s video link above showing spokesperson Swindler protesting that there was mass chaos during the shooting.

          Like

  14. oldiadguy says:

    Sundance, I sent you an E-mail

    Liked by 1 person

  15. auscitizenmom says:

    Well, I think they did accomplish one thing, they kept the Black Biker Week news off the air. They had managed to tamp down the violence, etc. at Black Biker Week but this completely took it out of the discussion.

    Like

  16. BobNoxious says:

    Perhaps it was a typo or just an oversight but in every picture I’ve seen from outside I see 4 dead bodies in the parking lot. One (I labeled it #2 see pic) is covered w/ a blue tarp (sometimes uncovered in many photos) so perhaps you just overlooked it.

    As for the vehicles backed in in b/w Don Carlos and Twin Peaks, I still do not see bullet holes. I see the reflection of the Don Carlos sign off the front windshield on the black/dark blue GMC truck and nothing on the white Ford F-150 (see pic from different angle).

    A 5th body (the one that died at the hospital) has been shown in a few pics laying in the back of a truck bed being worked on by friends before an ambulance tookover and presumably drove him to the hospital. A relative of this man was interviewed and identified him as the man who died of a single neck wound- I believe the last name was Rhyne but I’m not 100% sure.

    Lastly, is the blue SUV shown in any of the helicopter aerial video taken during the day? I don’t see it in the picture w/ white circles included in your article but perhaps it was cropped out (the other veichle parked closer to the white F-150 is visible in both shots). If it is not there, however, it would indicate that it was not parked in that spot until well after shooting and therefore could not have been used for cover. And shooting from behind that SUV would not give one much of a shot given the tree and vehicles in the way… I cannot imagine a police officer attempting to shoot through a vehicle, intentionally. The pic in the article w/ the white circles seems to indicate that such an angle would be very difficult, if not impossible.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. joshua says:

    bikers are a rough and ready bunch anyway

    Liked by 2 people

  18. BobNoxious says:

    Is there a full, un-cropped, version of this photo available?

    I do not see the dark SUV in it and that means it was either cropped out or was parked in that spot after the shooting, thus could not have been used for cover. Furthermore, I don’t see how a person could’ve had a clear angle from which to shoot given the tree and vehicles in the way (I cannot see any bullet holes in the vehicles).

    Like

  19. Will says:

    Read elsewhere that Cleveland has accepted DOJ oversight, or mandates or something to that effect. I’d imagine that Baltimore will go that way by summer’s end. Police get no support, no protection, protect their hide against mobs. Government decides police are ineffective, call in for federal oversight. Seems to be a pattern. Feds have had plants in 1% outfits for decades, I’d be shocked if they were not involved in this “incident” They are playing both ends against the middle.

    Liked by 1 person

    • smiley says:

      “..playing both ends against the middle.”

      good point.
      what came out of Ferguson ?
      The Ferguson Report.
      maybe someone’s drafting The Waco Report, as we speak.

      Liked by 2 people

  20. lovely says:

    I haven’t reviewed 100’s of articles but probably over 50 and reviewed a lot of photos. Your eye is better than mine and your spatial awareness is amazing, I learn from your posts and your analysis all of the time so thank you.

    I agree it is unfair to promote the idea that all 170 folks arrested, even by the loose Standard of Texas’ “In for some, in for all” law, are guilty of being involved in some way.

    I agree that some innocents were caught up in the minnow net. I agree that it is taking a long time to find the “wrong place wrong time” folks and release them. I would hope that the unaffiliated are/were the first interviewed, but maybe, just maybe they are part of the unrepresented and are (wisely) refusing to talk.

    I just read yesterday about someone seeking an attorney for a family member, is that person represented by a public defender at this point but wants a private attorney or are they simply unrepresented?

    People are not just given a public defender because they ask for one, they have to prove that they cannot afford one. I don’t know what the equation is for that in Texas but it certainly can be an impossible situation for many middle class arrestees.

    I think that the Ferguson analogy is not a viable comparative. The first obstacle in the comparison is the unlawful disparity in which the black FTP crowd and white people are treated in general. So how would people have reacted to a mass arrest in Ferguson is a moot point as they would have acted unlawfully, the media would have screamed racism and more calls for “the only good cop is a dead cop” would have been brayed across the United States.

    The second is that the police did corral people that they could contain at the scene and probably would have been justified in taking them down to the station for questioning. That did not happen because of the BGI not because it would have been unlawful to do so. I agree to arrest them all would have violated their civil rights.

    Demographics aside, at TP the guilt by association or “piggyback” guilt is different because of Texas law. A group of what is considered “loosely knit protestors” is for purposes of the law held to a different standard of individual culpability under Texas penal code;

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.71.htm

    Remember the prosecutor is hanging their hat on the demonstrable history/association/affiliation of the club/gang members and their known associates, including previous criminal activity. The Bandidos and the Cossacks both have an establish club/gang with inarguable affiliations, they have an inarguable history of some of their members being involved in criminal history, and it is an inarguable fact that they were attired in their club/gang paraphernalia. At this point I would suspect “In for a little in for the whole” is the going “justifiable cause”.

    I haven’t addressed all of your points and I certainly don’t disagree with your larger point, but this is already a long post so I will stop here for a while. I agree that sunlight is needed and as usual the MSM media is much more comfortable in a room with the curtains drawn. I salute your doggedness in not only this case but all the cases you shine the truth on.

    A very important question in my mind is, are any of the wounded folks totally unaffiliated with any MC ? Any one just dressed in civilian clothes? I think that the 9 dead all being MC members is significant.

    Liked by 3 people

    • lovely says:

      Should read *all 9 dead are Cossack/Bandidos members and one Prospect is significant. (at least that does not seem to be contested even by the MC’s. )

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        “I think that the 9 dead all being MC members is significant.”

        Except that it isn’t true.

        http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/21/waco-shooting-purple-heart-recipient-bikers-killed

        Like

        • Yes, I knew this, I went to the link anyway and copied this damning statement, (unbelievable)

          “They were not here to drink and eat barbecue,” Swanton said earlier this week. “They came here with violence in mind.”

          What a redicilous statement, I’m certain, they did not show up to battle.
          Not there, not like that..

          Like

        • lovely says:

          You are correct he was a friend of the Bandidos, a person LE will refer to as an associate.

          But he was not part of any club when he was killed at Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, they said, though he had friends who were Bandidos

          Like

        • manickernel says:

          He was a Bandido and only the word of family that he no longer was. Funny how selective some are here on what they accept as truth. I have noticed pretty much all the families deny their loved ones were in any way involved. I do admit the police have overreached tremendously in charges and possibly in the incident. However, I see no difference in blindly supporting all the statements of innocence by some here than those in Baltimore supporting Mosby in her condemnation of police for Freddie Grey.

          Liked by 1 person

    • Margaret-Ann says:

      Excellent analysis, Lovely! You have reviewed many more articles than I. 🙂

      Yes, in Texas you have to prove you are indigent in order to get a public defender. It is different in EACH county. I worked for a PD in Tarrant County which has a rotating system, calling upon private attorneys on a list. I will see what I can find out about McLennan County. I found the following July,2014 article interesting.

      http://www.texastribune.org/2014/07/22/strains-show-county-based-public-defense-system/

      Liked by 1 person

      • BobNoxious says:

        An article in the Waco Trib last week said that approximately 75-85 qualified as indigent but the county only has 29 1st degree felony qualified appointees so they are asking neighboring counties to help out in providing qualified PDs.

        Liked by 1 person

    • art tart says:

      lovely ~ something I don’t understand is this. If DA/LE are saying they are known criminals, why weren’t previous arrests made for those breaking the law for those crimes? The same for files on some of the Banditos, having a file is one thing, having proof to charge that member for a specific crime is another thing, hence, not enough evidence to do so.

      I understand your point of “in for a little, in for the whole,” but that doesn’t seem so easy to prove imo. DA/LE would have to have forensics on cell phones to try to make a connection w/other members that it was a conspiracy. What if several of the Banditos had no idea that the leader would pull a gun & shoot someone in the head killing them over a parking situation. imo, it may be possible many had no idea that would happen, IDK.

      Then, the Attorney’s for the bikers may ask for a speedy trial. Then what? This is moving at a snells pace. It overwhelms me of the monumental job ahead for DA/LE to make all the cases stick, IDK.

      Thanks for your explanations.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hope this aligned properly..
        In my state ( IN. ) I’ve seen a few biker gangs, ( 1% ) go down, most recently the Indy chapter of the outlaws.. Cossacks are there too, however to your point, it’s always done with a “spook” evidence gathered, warrants issued, people arrested, no body died.
        They seriously damage the MC club this way. It always, always creates a power vacume too, ( think Iraq ) and other bad guys move in. That’s why I’m so puzzled on why, Waco PD & swat were onsite.. It’s also why I’m still completely baffled at every single aspect of LE & wacos so called ” legal system” apparently white biker types are the new apache…

        Like

        • art tart says:

          Hi Scott Spencer ~ thanks for your explanation. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around 172 being charged. I usually follow high profile murder trials, I’ve followed so many I have a pretty good grasp on how those trails work. I’ve never seen anything like this & don’t see how this can possibly be done in a timely fashion to sort out fingerprints, DNA, bullets, guns, cell phone forensics, etc.

          The more attorney’s that get involved, the more interesting it may become. I do agree the JP/2 Judges should recuse themselves as they have proven to be rubber stamps imo.

          Like

          • art tart… Normaly RICO is used from the inside out, when conceived for the mafia, ( 70’s ) then employed against cocaine king pins etc.. When done this way, it’s mostly effective. Waco grabbed this rabbit out of the hat and employed it last second like. I don’t see RICO being a premeditated plan prior to this event, if so, then it supports a sting. Waco PD’s use of RICO is self serving in the aftermath the way I see it thus far..it just reeks of severe illegal action on waco’s part, IMO

            Like

      • lovely says:

        IMO once all the evidence sees the light of day the DA is going to connect a lot of dots. Bandidos have been arrested in the past. I think about 25% of the arrested have records in Texas alone. The Bandidos are 1% club by their own admission.

        Al Capone was a known criminal but he was taken down by the IRS not LE. Being a criminal doesn’t necessarily mean that there is legal evidence that will withstand the rigors of a courtroom.

        How many people at Ferguson were recorded assaulting people, looting and so on, did they all get arrested no, that doesn’t mean that they didn’t partake in criminal behavior.

        Do I think that LE did anything wrong during the Waco melee? I don’t know yet I haven’t seen evidence that they have. Are there oddities sure but I don’t think there is evidence of an ambush by LE. Do I think undercover LE may have been in TP and things went sour.

        Maybe, but there is usually some truth in the very first information which comes out, and the eyewitness accounts that I have read have bikers riding into the parking lot and the shooting starting amongst them.

        The women’s voice in the DC video that Sundance included in the body of his post says that a biker was shooting and that is after LE is actively engaged at the scene.

        I think that there is a lot of confirmation bias going on in this case for some reason.

        Like

  21. Scott Spencer says:

    Good point on the lack of photos showing 8 deceased, I’ve wondered this myself quite a bit. The fact that everyone was held in the parking area, for so long after the shooting stopped, would give ample time for other bikers to take pics. ( now in custody ) so, 170 or so jury trials? Civil suites? Yep, a whole bunch of “innocent bike riders” have had their “living lives” stolen away by the “Waco PD & RICO. It is abundantly clear, those 170 Motorcycle riders are being held “illegally” by the “guilty until proven innocent gig”I also find it hard to believe there is only 1 video of this area in question, there has to be more video, there just has to be.

    Liked by 2 people

    • John Galt says:

      Maybe Waco needs to add Ybarra v. Illinois to their 80 hour justice of the peace training program for non-lawyers.

      https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/444/85/case.html

      Like

      • Perhaps TPTB in Waco subscribe to the dissenting opinion of Rehnquist. Hard to say, since there is little known about which specific charges (if any) are being levied against any (and every) individual, or the circumstances of each and every individual arrest.

        Mostly, this sounds like a “Round ‘Em All Up and Let God Sort Them Out” decision which is totally unconstitutional. Methinks the WACO PD and local Prosecutors will soon discover that they have bitten off more than they can chew.

        Liked by 4 people

  22. Pingback: Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – The Crossfire and The Four Dead Bodies We Don’t See… | The Silent Soldier

  23. John Galt says:

    “Second, notice the white pickup truck on the lower right. That is the pickup truck from this next image:”

    Might evidence police gunfire, must smash windows out ASAP.

    Like

  24. manickernel says:

    Austin attorney Adam Reposa alleges in motions filed Tuesday that the charging documents filed against his clients, and the 168 others jailed in the chaotic melee, are legally insufficient.

    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/biker-attorney-seeks-to-replace-judges-demands-immediate-release-of/article_25fcfaf1-0ad7-51fb-9993-1620f6630db6.html

    Liked by 1 person

    • Tonawanda says:

      If true, it is absolutely outrageous that the habeas corpus hearings have been scheduled so far out. By definition, the hearings are “emergency” proceedings.

      Something is wrong here.

      Liked by 2 people

      • oldiadguy says:

        Yes, something is definitely wrong. They appear to be slow rolling it intentionally. It is going to take a long time to process all the guns, shell casings and bullets that were recovered and try to make a matchup with the fingerprints and DNA they obtained by arresting everyone remotely connected to the event.

        Like

  25. One bill that was passed as a result of Texas COC&I’s lobbying efforts: SB754. This bill would restore funds that were supposed to be earmarked for motorcycle safety & safety training. These funds were collected on that premise from Motorcycle licensing fees. However, this money had been diverted into the Texas DPS general (slush?) fund. SB754 restores these funds to their original purpose- namely, motorcycle safety. This was not a small victory.

    Liked by 4 people

    • pspsst says:

      Ah, as pieces come together, we start to understand the outrageous over-reaction from LEs and possibly the head of the snake – the Feds.

      Liked by 1 person

  26. John Galt says:

    “Austin attorney Adam Reposa alleges in motions filed Tuesday that the charging documents filed against his clients, and the 168 others jailed in the chaotic melee, are legally insufficient.”

    Youtube search Adam Reposa. He’s a wild one.

    Like

  27. That ONE person could just as easily be YOU or ME….

    Which is exactly why I first raised concerns over this “event”.

    Certainly, the facts and details have yet to “roll out” so it’s not clear what started the incident, or who escalated it to a “shooting match”. I don’t automatically assume that since all of the dead are alleged “bikers” that they were necessarily guilty of initiating some sort of “fire fight” with the police. Also, I do not automatically assume that the police did (or did not) use this as an opportunity to “cull the herd”.

    But, one thing seems clear: A large group of people are being held prisoner with little (or no) probable cause. And that is very alarming.

    Do I belong to a group that could be similarly treated? Could my simple association (here) as a “Treeper” make me subject to arrest without due process, under the assumption that I am some sort of “Right Wing Fanatic”?

    And most concerning: WHY is there no substantial outrage over the mass incarceration of a group of people who were lawfully assembled and may have done nothing wrong? Is the US in such a state of dysfunction that the citizenry is unable to recognize the peril of allowing the government to behave in this manner without even slightly raising an eyebrow?

    Liked by 6 people

    • Scott Spencer says:

      letjusticeprevail2014… This is exactly right, all my life I’ve heard about the “good ole boy network”..I’m now becoming convinced, its just a “philosophical theory”….. to bad

      Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      I agree some bikers corralled in this probably had nothing whatever to do with the shady side. The only thing I can say, is that as an adult one should kinda-sorta pay attention to whom you do associate with.

      THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Dutch police detained 20 people Wednesday, 14 of them members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang, and seized weapons including five rocket-propelled grenade launchers and six automatic handguns.

      http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NETHERLANDS_MOTORCYCLE_GANGS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

      Like

      • michellc says:

        I think that’s a little unfair to expect them to know everything about every club out there and every member of every club.
        A lot of these clubs are just small town clubs who don’t live on a bike. Some of them are just independent guys who meet up with other independent guys or participate in events.

        As an adult myself who has always tried to follow the law, I’ve attended many strategic meetings regarding many different things that are usually political in nature as their meetings are. I could be sitting in a room with hardened criminals for all I know and have sat in a room with what probably were a few bikers as I’ve seen bearded men with tattoos and leather vests and chained billfolds at some of them. I honestly never thought I should have gotten a list of everyone who would be there so I could run background checks and see if they are criminals.

        Like

        • manickernel says:

          You have heard of Hells Angels, right? Well pretty much anyone who rides knows that Vagos, Outlaws, Bandidos, Mongols, and Pagans are 1%. I had never heard of Cossacks before, but don’t believe they are on East Coast. In any case, this was a very well known MC in Texas, along with the ongoing beef with Bandidos.

          Like

          • michellc says:

            They were attending a meeting that they have attended many times before.
            Were Bandidos and the rest always there? I don’t know maybe, do all of those bikers attending know that they would be there, did all of them know they are bad dudes? I don’t know the answer to that and neither do you.

            If one of those bikers had been a criminal and just did a drug deal and the cops busted into the meeting, I guess someone could claim, “well you were an adult you should have known that someone sporting tattoos and a leather jacket was a criminal or you should have known he was a Bandido and that Bandidos are a gang.”

            You say pretty much anyone who rides knows. Are you a biker? Have you ever attended one of these meetings? Have you ever ridden with any club?

            Like

            • manickernel says:

              CNN interviewed a waitress that did say Waco PD had asked the owners to not allow the meetings as they were fearing an outbreak of violence. Violence had already occurred between these two gangs. Yes I ride, and I would not run in fear from a Bandido or Hells Angel or feel very threatened if I found them nearby, but I would definitely not make a point of being around them by choice. And if I saw 20 or 30 of another club ride up I would haul ass.

              Like

              • michellc says:

                Do you attend these meetings?

                Like

                • manickernel says:

                  No. Actually in Georgia if Bandidos (or other 1%) tried to claim the State rednecks in pickups would dampen that pretty quick. Multiple clubs pop up from time to time with it but overall we just go with locality.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  If you have never attended a meeting then you are not in a position to judge these meetings.
                  Just as I was wrong in my youth to judge all bikers. You are wrong to judge something you know nothing about.

                  Like

          • michellc says:

            BTW I once thought all bikers were pot smoking, drunkard hippies when I was young. That was a very unfair judgment on my part.
            I’d think if you ride, you wouldn’t want people judging you as I did or believing you were a criminal, especially you wouldn’t want a cop to think that.
            Yet, you seem to be passing that judgment onto these bikers.

            Like

            • manickernel says:

              No, not on all bikers. 99% of guys that ride, and not just Harleys, I find no different than regular folk I might meet anywhere, and we share the enjoyment of riding.

              I still don’t know enough about Cossacks though. I do agree with the statement one made that no one club should be able to use violence to lay claim to a bottom rocker, and the whole argument is childish BS anyhow. They may have gotten sucked into a setup. BUT. The Cossacks were not a current member of CoC&I so unless they were specifically invited they were asking for trouble being there. As to the other clubs, if they were members and kept showing up around Bandidos, then they tempted fate once too often.

              Also, with an MC that has multiple chapters each chapter can be different in overall attitude.

              Like

              • manickernel says:

                … and I have never been to a New Black Panther meeting either but think I will pass.

                Liked by 1 person

              • A larger MC (1%) with multiple chapters. There are multiple layers inside of these clubs, you will have a core, and surrounding layers along with it, you will have different mental attitudes, guys with records ( felony’s)
                Guys with no records, guys who care some, guys who care more, & guys who couldn’t care less.. Lots of internal fighting too..

                Liked by 1 person

              • michellc says:

                Basically what you are saying is these clubs got what they deserved and have judged every single one of them and think you know what everyone one of them knew.
                All we’re going to do is go around in circles.
                I just hope someday you’re not in the same place on your bike with a lot of other bikers and the cops decide all of you are criminals.

                Also, my brothers rode bikes, one of them still does, so I guess in a sense they would be bikers except for the fact they just like riding motorcycles and don’t ride in groups and aren’t members of clubs.
                To me those are two entirely different things.

                Like

                • manickernel says:

                  Ask them what their take is on it then. And no, nobody deserved it, but some made a conscious choice to be in a dangerous situation, and some were naive.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  They know no more about bikers than I do. Like I said just because you ride motorcycles it doesn’t make you a biker in the sense that these guys are bikers.
                  I spent much of my youth on the back of their bikes and still will on occasion go ride on the back of my SIL’s bike, but that doesn’t make me a biker or a biker chick.

                  You are still judging from what you believe. You’ve basically admitted you have no insider info about any of these clubs or these meetings.

                  As for what their take is, since they now know even less than I do about bikers because I have been researching bikers, they are looking at it from the view that something stinks in Waco. They certainly aren’t claiming they all made a conscious choice to be in a dangerous situation by attending a meeting that some of them have probably attended hundreds of times in a public place.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  Also while you are judging them, why don’t you read about some of them.
                  Now, I don’t know why if the Bandidos are as bad as the government claims they’re allowed to attend these meetings. Maybe some know them and don’t believe they are outlaws. Maybe, it’s to keep the peace. Sort of let them come so they don’t start trouble.

                  Whatever the reason, it’s pretty darn obvious these bikers weren’t taking their wives to a shootout.
                  It’s also pretty darn obvious they aren’t criminals.

                  https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/

                  Like

                • LadyRavenSDC says:

                  michellc – I visited the website you posted. The group look like just ordinary people caught in a horrible, horrible mess. Granted, anyone can say anything but the woman who’s blog it is has been writing since 2009 so she definitely does not look like any kind of flybynight.
                  The comments section – someone was asking – WHERE can we go to tell our stories.
                  I told them Sundance has been on this from the very beginning as have many people in the comments section – trying to help – trying to figure this out.
                  I left this most recent link for them to check out. Hopefully Sundance will get info from some of them. They truly sound desperate as can only be expected.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  I’m going to be honest with you, my first thought were these all were probably people I wouldn’t want to meet in a dark alley. If you search Bandidos you find all sorts of scary things of how dangerous they are and on the top 4 list of the feds.
                  That of course didn’t mean they didn’t deserve constitutional rights and didn’t make what looked to stink from the beginning was okay.
                  My opinion of them changed though as I started going through their FB pages and reading their posts over the years and looking at their pictures. Even some of these Bandidos FB pages don’t look any different than my family’s FB pages. Photos of kids, grandkids, t-ball games, graduations, etc.
                  I realize you can be two different people. But how can you be a dangerous criminal doing horrible things and not have a criminal record?

                  I’ve also found some that do have criminal records or are in prison who are former members. I though can find former politicians with criminal records.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  I just read some of the comments and want to warn anyone going to the link that there is some pretty bad language in some of the comments, worse than what this girl calls herself.

                  Like

        • manickernel says:

          A couple of points about this “regular” meeting they were having. Supposedly the Bandidos had invited the Cossacks to this meeting to sort out difficulties over the patch issue. Waco is a Cossack town.

          It could be that in fact this is true. Then one wonders at the Bandidos conveniently showing up an hour late. They would know they would have the Cossacks grouped on the patio making it a perfect setup for a drive-by ambush. I doubt they figured the police would be there.

          The invite could be BS, and the Cossacks showed up to mark their territory. Intending violence if necessary to do so.

          I don’t know. I do know it was a bomb waiting to go off. No amount of “we were just Mom and Pop at an organizational meeting BS” will change that. Bandidos are an international criminal enterprise deriving money from drugs, guns, extortion, and prostitution. They actively attempt to put on a semblance of legitimacy but it is well known what they are. CoC&I, the organizer for the meetings, is part of that front. It is run by the Bandidos.

          So Mom and Pop got their kicks rubbing shoulders with the baddest of bad. Only that day it was Cossacks, Scimitars, and a few idiots who should have known better in the wrong place at the wrong time.

          Liked by 1 person

          • auscitizenmom says:

            “showed up to mark their territory” ROTFLMAO Brought to mind my huge male lab “marking his territory.” Imagine all these guys riding up, getting off their bikes and peeing on all the posts. LOL Ick

            Like

          • michellc says:

            You are going on what LE said and one anonymous supposed Cossack member.

            That is not what the bikers are saying. Bikers who are not speaking anonymously.

            You still haven’t answered my question though, have you ever attended one of these meetings?

            Like

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      Hey I am part of a few conservative blogs and have been for several years now.
      I used to joke about opening up my door one day to find men in black standing there with guns drawn…Not sure its a joke anymore…SCARY Country we live in isn’t it.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Monroe says:

        I had 2 show up at work to “assess” me because of some research I was conducting that involved the IRA and a presidential candidate.

        No guns drawn. I look like a research geek and I think the Feds were amused.

        Liked by 2 people

        • kinthenorthwest says:

          Im 66—not much to lose if does happen
          But if it comes down to fighting for my country I will give up my life

          Like

          • michellc says:

            That stuff concerns my husband more than it does me. He’s always telling me I’m going to have men in black suits driving black cars show up.
            If they ever get my hard drive I might be in trouble from some of the stuff I’ve searched for the past few years and some of the FB pages I’ve visited.
            It might be confusing for them though, especially the black gangsters pages, occupy groups, ISIS groups, etc. mixed in with conservative sites and the latest outlaw bikers.lol

            Liked by 2 people

    • Dixie says:

      Excellent point and something all of us should be concerned about. This has crossed my mind several times and the only way to avoid being rounded up like this is to stay home and for many that is not an option.

      Since the msm is so uninterested, wouldn’t it be ironic if a specific group of them were all rounded up and incarcerated due to the actions of a few….ROFL at that thought.

      Liked by 1 person

  28. TheLastDemocrat says:

    What would a sniper be firing at? Anyone with an arm raised and something in the hand, looking as if about to shoot? Someone immediately after they were seen pulling the trigger?

    From what little I know, a sniper would not be throwing that many shells down range to result in a few justified imminent-threat deaths.

    Such a sniper would be firing into a scene with his own buddies, and into a scene where it was possibly unknown who was a genuine outlaw biker and who was the suburban dad enjoying the full length of chain his family gave him that day?

    Liked by 1 person

  29. cali says:

    While I agree with the premise of ‘the truth has no agenda’ – the Waco shootings and its truth has an agenda.
    We suppose to be innocent until proven guilty; yet here we are – bikers are in jail because they are bikers – who became a target for unexplained reasons.
    Among the killed bikers was an active Marine – no gang member but a Marine on active duty.
    What is the agenda of the Waco truth? It will not be easy to find; the bikers are imprisoned for a reason although not difficult to understand.
    Since Jade Helm 15 was moved up overnight to June 15 following the Waco incident – may some truth will surface. There is a silent revolt by military personnel unwilling to participate. It all will start in Texas.

    Liked by 1 person

    • smiley says:

      well, at least a lot of bikers will be probably be out of the way (during Jade Helm), languishing behind bars….or already deceased…there, in Texas, as a result of the Waco “shoot out”.
      but wait….ex-military….according to MSM, THEY now are a threat, in the aftermath of this Waco “shootout”.
      probably just a weird coincidence.

      Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      It appears that both Bandidos and Cossacks are not saying much of anything on the outside while those on the inside (through families) are denying everything.

      Like

  30. kinthenorthwest says:

    I will admit that I am so Up in the Air on this one….
    At least in the other incidents with the police, the police did not lie about what was happening. The story from the police on this incident has changed so much I don’t think that anyone even knows the real story.

    This has actually put me at odds with some Conservative friends. Due to the other police incidents Ferguson, Cleveland, & Baltimore they feel we are supposed to need to stand behind law enforcement. Like I told them the stories from the police in Waco are just not adding up and keep changing, but that seems OK with them. Then when you see the Willy Nilly arrest the almost 200 people with 1 Million Dollar Bails who the majority had no previous records, were not armed and didn’t even have drugs on them.
    I still support Law Enforcement, but am shaking my head at this one..(I will say due to a recent incident of mine in my town I do see were Police can be bias. I am going on vacation for a couple of weeks and due to problems with my neighbors am a bit leary. However due to the way that the Police department has been and is handling it all over the last several years, don’t feel I will say anything to them about my vacation. Prior I would. I do have a friend that will stop by and check on my property two or three times a week)

    Liked by 1 person

    • OP says:

      Waco police department Facebook page has been scrubbed, they removed the 3 posts from SGT Swanton and his detailed narrative that were later proven to be pretty much lies…

      The coverup is getting covered up

      Liked by 3 people

      • kinthenorthwest says:

        figures…SCARY
        As one friend said we are not supposed to know the and I said WHY????

        Like

      • John Galt says:

        Arrest them all, they’re all part of the same gang, right?

        Liked by 1 person

      • manickernel says:

        Waco PD does seem to be digging themselves in. How they have handled this since the shooting stopped is not good. How they handled it during the incident… well, waiting on video… and I hope it can answer some good questions that have been made on here.

        Liked by 1 person

    • pspsst says:

      Conservatives are usually on the opposite side of whatever narrative the lamestream media writes because we know there is always an agenda with them. Always. But as Conservatives, we stay fair to all and first try to examine the facts gleaned to stay true witnesses.

      Undoubtedly, where there exists contradictions and tell tale lies from one side, it makes us even more curious. We know that if the media is behind carrying the ball, then behind it is some strong and very desperate agenda on behalf of their wealthy political sponsors.

      It is also a very cogent possibility that BOTH the bikers and the LEs, two groups which the current administration detest, the former for their DC bike ride against Stompy Feet unconstitutional attempt at gun grabs, that they are being set up against each other. The current admin is a manipulative, highly aggressive and desperate asp spreading oily residue. It only has less than 2 years left and it hates Hillary it’s supposed Democrat successor.

      Liked by 3 people

    • John Galt says:

      “Then when you see the Willy Nilly arrest the almost 200 people with 1 Million Dollar Bails who the majority had no previous records, were not armed and didn’t even have drugs on them.”

      They might be trying to coerce somebody into confessing to murdering bikers killed by the police.

      Like

  31. geoffb5 says:

    There is another image [here] which shows the MRAP later on after they moved it and the concealing dumpster back behind the Don Carlos. It also seems to show another SWAT type van, dark green, behind the MRAP.

    Like

  32. Josh says:

    I’m not saying the police did anything wrong but I’m not not saying it either.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. geoffb5 says:

    There are also more orange cones on the grass in that picture but these are more to the left of the others. Closer to being across from the front entrance.

    Like

  34. Stephen says:

    Four bodies on the porch/patio, hence we cannot see them in any pictures, who could very likely be completely innocent victims of inbound gunfire from the police department.

    Waco PD are withholding the CCTV video from Twin Peaks and no media is putting pressure upon them to release it.

    If nothing else, the double standard is obvious among both police and media. So, why the double standard?

    Like

    • John Galt says:

      Ordinarily, cops keep information secret during an investigation to screen witnesses from BS artists. However the fact that the police themselves bombarded the media with a constant stream of BS distinguishes this from an ordinary case.

      Liked by 2 people

  35. michellc says:

    Saw this on the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents FB page. I’m just copying and pasting because I can’t log into my photo account.
    https://www.facebook.com/txcoci

    *** Biker Family and Friends ***

    We are receiving reports from the families of the Waco 170 that they are being held in conditions unfit for humans. It is unsanitary, they are not receiving the proper medical care, nor are they being fed properly.
    If you know anyone that is in there that is injured or not being taken care of properly, please message us with their name as quickly as possible so we can notify the resources we are working with!

    Liked by 1 person

    • michellc says:

      In the comments they say the 2 million bikers to DC have a Waco ride set up.

      Liked by 1 person

      • michellc says:

        FB page for them. (Can someone with fb post screenshots for me, my photo account is not allowing me to log in)
        https://www.facebook.com/events/836047983155943/

        2 Million Bikers To D.C.
        Riding with Texas bikers
        Sunday June 7, 2015
        At: Waco Texas
        We want the whole country to join US

        Texas bikers Know:
        The 170 arrested at the Waco shooting were NOT engaged in “Organized Crime”, “Racketeering”, “Drug Dealing”, “Prostitution”, Human Trafficking”, “Motorcycle Stealing” or “Mexican Cartel Business” as the propaganda assault that law-enforcement and the mainstream media have waged.

        Texas bikers Know:
        The COCI Meeting scheduled May 17, 2015 was publicly advertised two months prior to the Waco Massacre.

        Texas bikers Know:
        The COCI meetings have been taking place monthly and bi-monthly for 16 years all over the state of Texas.

        Texas bikers Know:
        The people that were attending this meeting are some of the most patriotic politically active people in the state of Texas.

        Texas bikers Know:
        “Freedom, Liberty, and Justice For All” is under assault and a system that promotes, enacts, and condones actions like the one in Waco is the tip of an ice-burg that proves to be a much larger problem.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Dixie says:

      I clicked on that link and read the comments. The supporters and families of the bikers are working themselves up into a frenzy. This may yet create some additional problems.

      Like

      • michellc says:

        I know when the bikers rode to D.C. they were all peaceful and all followed all the laws.
        If what the families are saying are true about them being denied life saving medications, I’d be in a frenzy as well.

        There is a biker ministry that has gotten clearance to go in, hopefully if this stuff is true that will put a stop to it.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dixie says:

          I hope I didn’t imply that I was not in full agreement with you. I have a tremendous amount of empathy for those who were innocent yet were arrested and those who may need medical help which is not available and those who are not being fed. Basic humanity calls for justice in those instances.

          Like

          • michellc says:

            No, you didn’t, I was just saying I understand why they’re upset if what they say is true.

            I’ve just learned a lot about bikers since this has started and many of them seem to be good people. I’ve also read about their previous biker rides for good causes and they seem to go out of their way to make sure everyone knows to follow the laws and be respectful.

            Yes, I know there are some clubs that have a criminal element, but even in those clubs it doesn’t seem from what I’ve discovered that all of them are criminals.

            Liked by 1 person

        • TheLastDemocrat says:

          I have not look at the web page. And I probably won’t. The “life-saving medications” makes it sound as if a person will be dead in a couple days unless they get their medication. Most likely: a few have diabetes, a few have hypertension – missing medications for several days, or taking these inconsistently, can have negative health effects on down the road.

          It is probably reasonable, to some degree, to describe these as life-saving medications, when some latitude is granted for rhetorical purposes.

          Like

          • michellc says:

            Actually one had organ transplants and without his medication rejection can happen.
            That is life saving medication. My cousin had lung transplants and his drugs were numerous the first several years and even today there are still medications he must take.
            As for diabetes my brother had diabetes and he most certainly could have died without his insulin in a few days.
            I would also think without treatment bullet wounds could cause you to die.

            Like

            • Yes, it’s quite concerning. Which brings up another point. I assume the Waco PD won’t take the “illegally held bikers” word on medical issues, so , I wonder how this is going to be handled? (medication.) if what we know & have seen thus far is any indication, very poorly or not at all I presume. Sounds like Hell on earth, there are also women being held too. I can hear jailers saying no we don’t have Tylenol, no we don’t have ibuprofen, no you can’t your anxiety meds, blood pressure meds, & no, you can’t make bond.. And, last but not least.. No, your not getting your Bikes, Trucks, SUV, car, or jobs back..

              Like

              • michellc says:

                I see the families are now filing reports to have the jail investigated.

                If these families are telling the truth I don’t see how Waco is going to not pay in money and jobs.
                Heck, we have judges ruling that prisons must provide sex change operations, which is nonsense, so I’d think they have to provide medication and medical treatment.

                Like

    • smiley says:

      you’d think Lawyer Reposa would have something to say about this, esp the lack of medical treatment..for the wounded (shot) prisoners.
      Andersonville.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “I will volunteer my time.”

      FB post:

      Tim McLemee
      Contrary to what many believe there is a very large portion of law enforcement that DO NOT support what WPD has done. I am retired LE and been riding Harley’s since high school. The way WPD has handled this is a travesty of justice and has caused years of legal issues. Myself and many others like me will openly support and work on behalf of the innocent people arrested. I am a Master Texas police officer with an instructor license, a court approved forensic expert in State and Federal Courts and have published case law where I am named 19 times by the 14th COP. I tell all this so it is obvious I am the real deal within LE and would immediately assist anyone or their attorney that has been drug into this, furthermore I will volunteer my time. My company is http://www.spartansgroup.com so feel free to pass my info to anyone needing it, my expertise is digital evidence which could be major in this case due to text messages, emails and GEO location. I could put guys in specific places within that property. I will also gladly work with all my political contacts in Austin once a plan has been agreed upon to insure this does not occur again. Since I have began working for criminal defense attorneys my work has totally 100% exonerated over a dozen people who otherwise we’re going to be convicted and incarcerated.

      Spartan Investigations | Tyler, Texas
      With over 40 years combined experience in Digital Evidence and Data recovery, Spartan Investigations is…
      SPARTANSGROUP.COM

      Liked by 1 person

      • michellc says:

        I’m curious if LE did their homework and realize how many bikers are veterans, LE, attorneys, etc.?

        I certainly didn’t realize it until recently.

        Like

        • Les says:

          Bikes aren’t cheap. And I can’t blame Twin Peaks for wanting their business, most of those guys have a little money to throw around.

          I’m thinking real biker gangs don’t deal large amounts of drugs in restaurant parking lots that sit out in the open in the middle of a busy area. I’m thinking the dirty business is probably done in secret.

          Like

          • manickernel says:

            Noticed in photos that a couple of the semi “AR’s” that police seized were still in cardboard shipping boxes as bought. Perhaps they were planning a parking lot sale after the meeting. 🙂 Not against the law by any means. For the seller.

            Like

        • manickernel says:

          LEO knew exactly who they were dealing with. They also knew some innocent (naive) people along with restaurant workers, etc. would be in danger when things finally went bad. LEO did try and get Twin Peaks to stop having these meetings despite owners disingenuous statement to the contrary. Twin Peaks was warned. This is from a statement by one of the waitresses there.

          I am not blindly supporting Waco PD, there are a lot of questions not just about how this went down but also as to the apparent FUBAR in handling the aftermath.

          Like

  36. archer52 says:

    I respect your team greatly and use your investigative talents as a reference. Here, we just need to be careful with what Rumsfeld terms his unknowns. Let’s not draw conclusions about things we don’t know. I’ll probably be using this post as part of a later article at my site.

    This case is unique. All the actors, victims, witnesses and evidence is literally right there! That just doesn’t happen!

    And no it is not like Ferguson for all the reasons commented here, including that Obama and Holder aren’t members of a biker gang, and their agenda- the destabilization of America- is not the agenda of a biker gang. Making a RICO case over what happened in Ferguson is a walk in the park. Most of what they did we know about. But you won’t see anybody do anything about it.

    The SUV looks like a police unit, either tactical, K9 or commander- they get all the cool stuff. The rounds marked at the vehicle indicate the officer parked tactically in order to use the engine block as cover, and advanced on the threat- as he is trained to do- called Active Shooter.

    Do we have a count on how many of the people locked up are NOT Bandidos or Cossacks? If all of the jailed are, I am not sympathetic. My mother told me you are known by who you associate with. Wear the colors, take the hit.

    I cannot believe that big of an event with bikers was not under surveillance, so sooner or later you all are going to be overwhelmed with video and pics. Right now, this is an investigation that is just getting organized. Putting out conflicting information will only taint it. Let them do their jobs. This isn’t a DUI or a simple burglary.

    As for the right to due process. I ask a simple question- who speaks for the rights of the dead? Do they stop counting when they stop breathing? It is the duty of the police, the DA, the system to put a case together and go after those responsible Imagine the outcry if they were all let go, slipped off into the world and couldn’t be found? Imagine the risk to LEO and innocents when the police do find them and they decided to arm themselves and fight to the death. Right now everybody is sitting quiet, no threat, no future threat, and they are being fed and kept dry and safe.

    Yes, they have due process, but this mess is straining the system. I’m sure the DA wants to move through the people with interviews, but he cannot. They have a right to counsel, if there is none, the DA can’t talk to them. Weird but how it works. No counsel makes prosecutors nervous.

    Let them file cases, maybe they win, maybe they lose, it is a legal system, not a justice system. Hard to accept but it has been that way for a long, long time.

    Liked by 2 people

    • pspsst says:

      You’re kidding, right??

      The due process of the dead does not take precedence over due process for the innocent until proven guilty, nor should it impinge on the rights of the innocent until proven guilty to remain healthy and preserve their living hood. Let them file cases, as a response to incorrect incarceration, is pardon the expression, or not, unbelievably ignorant, and I surely hope that you were never part of a police force. If so, what you are spouting is exactly why the LE as a whole is being seen as corrupt. Thank goodness we here are discerning when it comes to viewing each incident on its own merit.

      Like

  37. Will says:

    A perfect storm. Old school, Soviet media trials in the modern era. Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. the majority of the law-abiding, police supporting public know what the deal is. The cops are under siege, 24/7. Every hour of every day, it’s a Gentle Giant episode of one sort or another. Only people living under rocks the past fifty years don’t know that. No sympathy from the general public. Everybody knows Missouri, Maryland, those were ACORN/Soros jobs, no matter what the MSM says. Soooo, in order to demonstrate that the real problem in the country are “white militia’s”. You get your boy on the inside to start working some disinfo, or take a molehill and make it a mountain. You peep the local gendarmes “hey, we heard there might be trouble”. The locals are sick of these clowns, their nonsense, the brawls, the loud pipes, the dope-dealing. The locals are shittin’ bricks, seen the DOJ take apart Sanford, Ferguson, B’more. Nobody wants to be caught slacking. A few rounds are consumed, somebody looks at somebody and sez. “what the f*ck you lookin’ at?” BOOM. Cue in smarmy MSNBC talking head.

    Like

  38. Jack says:

    When I brighten up and zoom the picture with the black SUV, I can count 10 (possibly 11) evidence cones. That sure is A LOT of shots fired from one location.
    I don’t know how to post the edited picture.

    Like

  39. Murse says:

    Love how LEO is treating all the bikers as RICO participants and yet Black criminal organizations get a free ride, ie. the BGI, NAACP, NBPP

    Like

  40. OP says:

    The picture of the truck with a cop poking a weapon into/at the window…

    First of all it has leftover evidence tape on the windshield wiper? So this is some strange staged shot…what threat could a vehicle with evidence tape on the wiper be?

    Second of all it is being cleaned this is picture of the truck in the parking lot peaked in the corner.

    It isn’t, because the strip of grass in the back ground isn’t deep enough, the grass that is behind the truck spearing the two parking lots is wide, and the picture of the grass shows a small strip and then a large truck, with the red and blue strips on it. It would from this photo be showing that large vehicle on the grass.

    The angle that this photo is taken from the front right bumper, would have shown all the grass in the median.

    Like

  41. maggiemoowho says:

    Here are a bunch of Twin Peaks shooting photos, all differnt angles and closeups, probably taken by bystanders and tweeted out. Topsy is a great search engine for photos and tweets. I typed in Waco Twin Peaks and 11,451 have been posted in the past 10 days.

    http://topsy.com/s?q=waco%20twin%20peaks&window=m&type=image&sort=-date

    Liked by 2 people

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Forgot to add that by clicking on specific range off to the left of the Topsy site, you can see photos posted that day.

      Like

    • sundance says:

      Only picture I have ever seen of the patio area “inside”:

      Looks like this guy:

      Liked by 1 person

      • smiley says:

        yep.

        Like

      • maggiemoowho says:

        That is the same man, those boots stand out. I’ll keep searching for more photos in that area.

        Like

      • James F says:

        Good ol’ red boots playing commando for the photographer.

        I would expect more scattered debris, broken glass bottles, overturned chairs, etc. on that patio for such huge bar brawl as originally described.

        Liked by 1 person

        • smiley says:

          depends on when this image was taken.

          Like

        • John Galt says:

          So they sent a cop dressed like biker sneaking into a building where MC gangs were allegedly having a shootout? This looks more and more like a setup.

          Liked by 1 person

          • lovely says:

            He is not dressed like a biker. He has on a police vest with the word POLICE written across it. He has on jeans and cowboy boots.

            Is there a particular animosity for this man for a definable reason or do some of you just feel he has a bad presence? My question is only addressed to the people speaking of him in a derogatory way.

            Like

            • James F says:

              He is not dressed as a cop. It would be difficult to see the word police when he is in that hunched over commando position, taking cover on the patio. It would be understandable if a lawful gun owner were to return fire in self defense if shot at.

              I have no animosity towards this man but that could change if it is determined that he took a sniper position on the patio before any fighting started.

              Like

              • smiley says:

                “dressed like a biker” isn’t derogatory.
                that full beard and the cowboy boots are not what police wear.
                and if he’s walking around without the vest, he’d look like…a biker.

                Like

            • John Galt says:

              “He is not dressed like a biker. He has on a police vest with the word POLICE written across it. He has on jeans and cowboy boots.”

              Wake up and smell the coffee. He is dressed as a biker. How do you think a cop gets away with wearing a full beard? Do you think it helps seal a gas mask?

              Like

              • BobNoxious says:

                He’s wearing a t-shirt, jeans, a baseball hat and cowboy boots- that’s what 75% or more of men in Texas wear on a typical Saturday. He’s definitely not dressed like a biker. I have no idea what the grooming standards are for various police departments around Waco but the ones around me have considerably relaxed the grooming standards over the past 10 years- allowing far more facial hair than just a mustache. And as I mentioned above, he’s not in Twin Peaks, he’s is in Don Carlos- so they didn’t not send him sneaking into a building where there was a known MC meeting.

                He was likely just another one of several off duty officers that responded to what was broadcast as an “active shooter” situation. The continued singling out of this man as doing something nefarious on that day based on looks alone and nothing else (and that’s exactly what is happening) is beyond absurd.

                Liked by 2 people

                • James F says:

                  100% of the Isis Muhammad art contests shooters had beards, tactical vests and AR-15 rifles…

                  The point is he did not look like a cop and could have been in position on the Don Carlos patio before any fighting started.

                  Like

                • BobNoxious says:

                  He was not pre-positioned in some snipers nest on the Don Carlo patio before the shooting broke out. The pic was taken after the shooting stopped by a Don Carlos customer as police were responding. It was part of a series of photos shown on WFAA and other outlets the day of the shooting. I’m still looking for the other pics in the series- 4-5 more but they do not show him and I think another short video was taken by the same person.

                  Like

                • James F says:

                  Officer weren’t already there DURING the shooting.

                  In an interview, Buzbee told the Tribune-Herald that Don Carlos has not fully assessed damages to the building. Several customers’ cars were struck by bullets, while Buzbee said officers used the patio and portions of the Don Carlos building for cover during the melee.

                  Like

                • James F says:

                  Were already there….auto correct chose weren’t for some reason.

                  Like

              • wrongonred says:

                lol, he could be a Pioneer Scout in the British Army on loan to Waco PD. No way he is allowed to have facial hair like that unless he is a UC.

                Like

              • manickernel says:

                I still cannot figure out if you are trolling or actually believe that stuff. Oh, you do know that Obama actually started the Jade Helm conspiracy rumors, right? His policies had opened the door to such a flood of immigration he needed a covert way to stem the tide. So schedule the games and get a whole lotta folk talking about it. Now no Mexicans will be coming into Texas or Arizona until he is out of office. You guys played right into his hand.

                Like

              • lovely says:

                Waco PD has allowed beards since 2000, Back in 2000, Waco already allowed beards for medical reasons, but Police Chief Alberto Melis permitted both beards and shorts for all officers, hoping for “a softer, friendlier look.” << Softer friendlier look gets an eye roll from me.

                http://www.chron.com/news/casey/article/The-hairy-question-of-bearded-cops-1618807.php

                Maybe he is a practicing Jew. Good gravy.

                I pointed this guy and two others out on the first thread because I thought their appearance was peculiar, but peculiar amongst a bunch of clean cut LE doesn’t make the guy a nefarious character.

                Cowboy boots are not proper riding attire by the way.

                Like

                • pspsst says:

                  You don’t wonder why he needs a vest that is marked in big bold letters that he is POLICE so that police don’t shoot at him by mistake because he has donned on biker garb to mix in with the biker crowd? It’s definitely not Hasidic Jew. He would have curls on the side. Do you notice that in the outside photo later on, he has removed his leather bracelet on the left wrist? It’s apparent to me he’s more biker garb than police garb, especially with the big sign post he feels he needs to wear to ID himself to others. This means his garb is confusing, and it was not due to lack of attention on leaving the house that day.. He also stands out from the rest of the LEs because of the Police lettering.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pspsst says:

                  Right wrist bracelet not left.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  In the link, it actually states that an uncover cop refused to shave off his beard after his stint – since he took a liking to it for skin infection reasons. There are no photos of said beard once allowed but the length of beard allowed by LEs are not likely to be 2 feet long. Further, Since Melis departed last fall, the no-beard rule has been reinstated in Waco.

                  Like

        • lilbirdee'12 says:

          Is that a ‘square’ on the left in first pic?

          Like

      • Scott Spencer says:

        Waco P.D. Was clearly set up for a fire fight no doubt & it cannot be disputed.
        One of my questions is Why? It simply leads me to believe there was a “spook” that “potentially” had info that a preconceived threat was going to occur at this meeting.. That’s my impression, if this were true, it explains a lot , however it doesn’t even come close to explaining why “everyone” was arrested, & jailed on no bond (essentially) Waco P.D. was eager for a fight though.. & they executed their will. They still are….

        Like

        • michellc says:

          Some of the bikers are speculating that the feds put that bug in their ear. If so it makes it sound more like I thought in the beginning, a twitchy finger cop started the entire thing.

          Like

      • BobNoxious says:

        Is that the patio of Don Carlos? That sort of looks like the dark blue SUV you mention in the article (and it’s parked the same direction) and that patio has plastic up similar to what is seen in the other pics of Don Carlos’s patio- the furniture also looks like Don Carlos furniture. The Twin Peaks patio looks like it has screen up as opposed to plastic.

        Like

        • James F says:

          I think you are right. Apparently it was being remodeled.

          Now I wonder who the photographer was, exactly when it was taken and why the cops did not mind them taking photos.

          Like

          • BobNoxious says:

            I don’t recall for sure but I seem to remember seeing that pic once on TV right after it happened (WFAA) and I recall the anchor saying it came from a Don Carlos customer. I could be wrong but I have a vague recollection of hearing that. I assume it was someone next to, if not the same person, that took the video from Don Carlos a few moments after the shooting stopped (the video that shows the uniformed cops and people laying on the ground). I’m almost positive that video shows similar style furniture inside Don Carlos patio too.

            Like

      • BobNoxious says:

        That pic was definitely taken from inside the Don Carlos patio. Here is a pic of the patio furniture at Twin Peaks… Completely different style of furniture.

        Like

  42. CrankyinAZ says:

    This is an interesting story from the wife of one of the incarcerated bikers… I’m thinking some rights might be being violated … just a bit? (Hope the link works.)

    Liked by 1 person

    • smiley says:

      this Waco thing just went from “stinking” to “toxic”.

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        This sounds expensive. Might be a good idea to move out of Waco about now.

        Liked by 1 person

        • smiley says:

          very suspicious about the TIMING of this.
          nothing like it in 15 years of biker meetings.
          just weeks before the JH 15 “exercises” in that same area.
          right in the midst of gun legislation and other pro-biker legislation.
          the timing..and the ex-military.
          might be time to watch the watchers.

          Liked by 2 people

    • michellc says:

      How many more like that are there? I’ve been able to find looking through FB 4 now who were not members of either the Bandidos, Cossacks, or Scimitars.

      From the more that is coming out from family members it sounds more like they’re being held in a FEMA camp than a jail.

      They can’t keep these people quiet forever and imho they’re plan is to keep them quiet just long enough for either people to forget about it or they make life so hard on them that they plea to something they didn’t do with a gag order just to escape their misery.

      Liked by 2 people

  43. archer52 says:

    After looking at the cones in the grass, could it be where rounds impacted? Or it is the sequence fired by the one officer leaving his SUV, advancing, the cutting up and over the embankment, which would flank the gunfight. It’s hard to get a get a sense of distance. I can’t imagine moving that far, UNLESS the officer was seeing the gunfight moving. He would not be aware of the larger tactical scene (higher function, lower function) only that he was engaging active shooters.

    I’m betting a number of the wounded farther away from the initial gunfight were shot by police as they moved. IT is human nature to flee- unlike Arnold in the movies- you don’t stand still, you take off running. A fixed target is an easy target to hit.

    Take off running with a gun in your hand, in a gunfight, and you are going to get shot. If you note, the guy who is claiming innocence jumped down right next to a cop, proned out, and was told to stay down, not shot in the back of the head. At that point, the officer was probably trying to protect both of them. I’m sure they had no more idea who was the good guys, who were the bad guys and who were the bystanders (outside the pre-incident detailed briefing showing the colors and some of the main players in the gangs). So they targeted the people with guns. And yes, there will be some people accidentally hit by stray rounds- either from the guns of the bikers or the police.

    But this was an active shooter response. I went through that training repeatedly. It accepts the fact we get killed and innocent people get killed in order to save a LARGE number of innocent people. Best bad choice in a set of really bad choices. Think Columbine.

    Liked by 1 person

    • archer52 says:

      and some of those young officers look really squared away. That may be combat vets. This is what they did over there. A gunfight in a crowded area with civilians is their thing. They understand the ROEs. I bet some of the dead and wounded have three shot bursts dead center mass.

      Liked by 1 person

      • BobNoxious says:

        Do police officers (even SWAT) get assigned automatic weapons w/ 3 burst capability? I thought they just received semi-automatic versions.

        Like

        • michellc says:

          I had a cop brag to me not long ago about his department getting surplus fully automatic weapons for almost nothing. He was one of the ones who was assigned one. Him and his buddies took it out to the country and played with it. He called it his, “war gun,” and how much fun it was.

          And no I didn’t call his department, neither did I make a stink out of it. I’ve learned to pick my battles.

          Like

    • sundance says:

      Muzzle Rise natural in clustered target pattern indicates full auto-fire:

      Like

  44. maggiemoowho says:

    Active scene outside:

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      How can all those people be charged when the photos clearly show many of them on the ground, no weapons in there hands, clearly trying to protect themslves from gunfire. That cop is walking around ready to fire, but if you look to the top left corner of the photo, it looks like people are just sitting on the curb and I can see a man walking up on the deck area.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Les says:

        Military is taught to NOT lay on the ground when being fired on, ricochet hugs the ground. I bet it was really hard to lay there. Really hard.

        I would almost call this a massacre. I hate that, especially when applied to our peace keepers, but dang. Whitey needs to start raising hell like the black folks do. I’m getting very tired of two obvious sets of rules being applied unequally.

        Liked by 1 person

  45. Les says:

    I haven’t commented on this story because I can’t get past the What.In.The.Hell.Was.That?. It makes no sense to me.

    If you have ever driven through Waco, you have seen that Twin Peaks. It is very visible from HWY 35, sits up on a hill right before the exit I take. It is in a very busy part of town and is very, very close to innocent traffic. The police fired TOWARD HWY 35. It’s ridiculous.

    Were the cops trying to get a bunch of renegade Mexican outlaws and ended up killing a bunch of retired vets? All the HQ buildings on every military installation I have visited in the last ten years all have dedicated motorcycle parking lots full of expensive bikes. Not everybody on two wheels is a meth dealer.

    I don’t understand. I just don’t.

    Liked by 3 people

    • lilbirdee'12 says:

      I’m with you, Les. I haven’t commented until I asked about the square on the table a few mins. ago and James said it was just one of the “weapons” confiscated. It is very disturbing….it is past time for people to wake up ~~waco~~.

      Liked by 1 person

  46. michellc says:

    Sundance said it above and thankfully others are getting it. I’m seeing many comments on FB and not just the biker pages saying it as well.
    An example from the comments on the Texas biker page.
    While I am not a biker, I do believe what is going on in Waco has far reaching ramifications that could impact all freedom loving constitutional Americans.
    If simply being at a political gathering where a crime is suspected of being committed justifies confinement and a million dollar bond; you better think twice about gathering to discuss things those in power may disagree with.

    Liked by 2 people

  47. lovely says:

    Anyone notice at the about the 28 second mark in the DC video a man asks something in spanish and another man interprets for him “Somebody’s shooting?”. She answers “Yeah” He then asks “He said which one was shooting?” The woman’s voice answers “ A biker” New question “But which one they’re all bikers?” . Woman answers “I don’t know”

    So isn’t that pretty strongly lend to the LE version that the bikers were still shooting even after LE was actively engaged?

    Like

  48. lilbirdee'12 says:

    From the link michellc posted above.

    Liked by 2 people

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