02-10 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
damage.
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

REMINDER – Please WATCH THE TONE and CONTENT of Commentary. Please be respectful, courteous and considerate of other readers and contributors. Please avoid hatespeak, angry rhetoric, vulgarity, personal attacks and condescension. If you wish to engage in vitriolic, racist, or bitter angry rhetoric, there are alternative sites on the internet more than welcoming to such considerations. But not here. Thank You.

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414 Responses to 02-10 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    “Wilful Ignorance” to the max!

    From the site owner/madam:

    Has anything that GZ claims to have happened been verified by anyone?

    I guess the dogs bark at the sound of the Madam’s voice.

    Where would you start if you did want to have a serious discussion with these people?

    Random Topics GZ case discussion
    http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=21564#p21564

    ………………………………………. photo cockatoo_zpsd358cb24.gif…………………………………………..

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  2. eastern2western says:

    has any one found the resolution for the flip phone? I do not believe it is a typo because a typo is usually misplacing a letter in a word. However, this does not look like a typo to me.

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    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Eastern – I agree. I have two Cell Phones – a “flip” and a regular. This is no way that anyone could be confused about them.

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      • maggiemoowho says:

        With all the hoopla made about the handling of the evidence at the Casey A. trial, I really find it hard to believe they would mistake that phone for a flip. If it was a mistake it was extremely irresponsible. I would imagine almost every case the FDLE handles involves a cell phone so whoever JB was he/she should have known the difference.

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  3. metrometeor says:

    So… what do you think the GZ movie will be named? I kinda like “The Malicious Prosecution of George Zimmerman”, but that would be quite an spoilerific title… Perhaps “Witness 8”? I don’t like it much but seems like a more realistic name.

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  4. arkansasmimi says:

    Hoping today brings a ray of peace and laughter and joy over small things. Keep the Faith Geo and Family. Whew didnt think I was ever gonna finish yday thread.

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    • jello333 says:

      Yeah, over 500 comments. In my last comment over there, I just mentioned to Rumpole that I was gonna have to get out, because my old computer can’t handle it. Super long threads, especially if they’ve got several videos in there… my computer starts giving me these looks like, “You realize how much I hate you, right?”

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      • arkansasmimi says:

        do you do the email thingy? Just wonder if that would speed it up much? I do both. My eyes start crossing after a while lol

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        • jello333 says:

          Yeah, that’s usually how I do it. I read through the thread at the site the first time I see it, going all the way through. But then once I’ve made my first comment, I just read each of the later comments one-by-one as I get them via email. So that works great… UNTIL I go to reply to one. And then, since it kicks you right into the thread itself, well….

          But I hate to sound like I’m complaining, because I’m actually GLAD when the threads get really long. It just shows what interest there is, and how even after nearly a year, it isn’t slowing down a bit… quite the contrary.

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          • rumpole2 says:

            You could always post at JQ….. just 5 or 6 flea ridden old dogs, scratching themselves occasionally. Just a few short pages of posts in a day… and no harm done if you totally miss large chunks of it.

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            • jello333 says:

              But time seems to stand still when you’re in there. I probably was there no more than maybe 2 weeks, and in that time probably read no more than 400-500 comments total, and I only posted like 20 or 30 comments myself. And yet it seems like I was there for an eternity. There must be some scientific explanation for that, eh?

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              • rumpole2 says:

                They WERE getting through a 1000 posts (or more) in a day (mostly rubbish).. they start a new thread after a 1000…. but they drove people away… banned people if they persisted…. hid the place away altogether, in their shame of what they were posting. Not surprising it is almost dead. If anybody actually manages to sting together an actual sentence or two, rather than a cheap shot puerile snarky comment… they quote it over and over.
                One person comes online everyday and just quotes what others have posted. It’s rubbish when first posted …repackaged its still rubbish. 😀

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              • TandCrumpettes says:

                Why, yes there is! Einstein’s theory of special relativity (time dilation). My best professional explanation is: “Its what makes Charleton Heston go to the Planet of the Apes.”

                Time does indeed slow to a crawl there. The good news is, you remain young while the rest of the world ages. Could explain “minor children” and an otherwise unexplained age-jump from 16-18. I expect to see time dilation as a major plot device in, “The Man Who Got Out of His Truck.”

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            • janc1955 says:

              That’s really interesting that it has died down so much over there. The Anthony case went full steam ahead from July 2008 to present day, carrying over from IS to JQ right before the trial, with occasional lulls after the verdict.

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          • arkansasmimi says:

            Thats how I read too! And I agree too!

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          • canadacan says:

            It shows a really marvelous attention to a passion for justice, intellectual stimulation and genuine problem solving.
            Very American and very uplifting. this thread performs a genuine service and we are the guiding lights in this particular matter.

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        • jordan2222 says:

          If I follow more than one thread, I can get over a thousand email notifications. Quite time consuming to keep up with it. I have been to a few sites where new posts are highlighted each time you return to the thread. It makes life easy.

          Hey, at least we have this place to ourselves. I can live with it. Imagine life without the Tree House.

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  5. Kim says:

    George’s brother was on Geraldo tonight and referred to Trademarks lawyers as the Scheme Team. Hopefully someone can find the video and post it. I thought it was good.

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  6. boricuafudd says:

    I’m nominating the Real TM Song, it is sad so many people don’t see this:

    “I needed a good school, and you trapped me in a bad one, while you sent your own children elsewhere. When some people suggested a way for me to go to a Catholic school where I’d have a chance of learning something, you cried up the separation of church and state. You didn’t actually believe that you would be setting up any church as a state institution. It is just that you hated the Church a lot more than you loved me.

    “I once lived in a real city neighborhood. The houses needed repair, so you called it a slum, and you tore it down. Then you built housing projects with all the beauty and safety of a parking garage. When these became hotbeds of crime, you tore them down too.

    “You declared a War on Poverty, aimed at me, when you should have declared a War on Vice, aimed first of all at yourselves.

    “You loved your vice more than you loved me. You could afford your vices, but I could not. Your vices made your lives, as you thought, more exciting. I did not have your cushion of wealth, so the same vices destroyed me.

    “I was lonely, and you bought me a whore. My sisters were lonely, and you made them into whores.

    “I needed the Church, desperately, because when a man is poor, he must face his helplessness every day. But the Church would restrain you, so, at every chance you had, you derided religious faith, and thus you snatched from me my most loyal friend.

    “I had no job, and you overtaxed the man who might have given me one. Then you gave the job to someone on the other side of the world, or you winked while men left their families thousands of miles away, crossing the border to work at low wages, and you yourselves hired them, and ducked the taxes that you yourselves established. In this way you managed to do mayhem to two families at once.

    “I was in prison, and needed to learn a trade, but you teamed up with union bosses to make sure I would not. You gave me dull and useless classes in communication, and television.

    “I was clothed with the remnants of modesty and decency, and you stripped them from me. You praised bad men who celebrated violence in their ‘music,’ and hugged yourselves for your tolerance.

    “My forebears lived on a farm, but your collusion with big business made it impossible for them to continue, not to mention your taxes on our land and our inheritances. When we moved to the cities, you moved away.

    “I needed to learn to calculate, and you handed me a machine that would do it for me, and prevent me from understanding what I was doing. I needed to learn to read, and would have liked adventure tales for boys, but you gave me feminist propaganda, or comic books.

    “I needed a father, but you preferred your fun. You passed laws that would reward my mother for not marrying my father. You hated marriage, because marriage brings a man into a family, and marriage restrains. You winked and smiled while my mother brought a series of irresponsible men into my life, none of whom was my father. They were dangerous. When they grew violent, you herded them into your corral, which you called ‘Domestic Violence.’ You refused to distinguish between husbands and these others. Thus did you continue to tear marriage down, and subject me and mine to more of the violence you pretended to decry.

    “I needed a father, and you gave me the gang leader selling crack cocaine.

    “I needed a father, and you laughed and told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. Then you gave me a prison trusty.

    “I needed a coach, to keep me in line during the difficult years, but you cut my teams and rosters. You called it ‘fairness’ to my sisters, and hugged yourselves for your enlightenment.

    “I used to have a YMCA, but you turned it into a day-care center for people like you.

    “I needed a father to show me how to love women, and you gave me porn.

    “I once had virtue, the poor man’s heritage, but you trained me in vice.

    “I needed a mother, and you, having taken my father away, did your best to take my mother away also. You had your work as doctors and lawyers, but my mother worked as a cleaning woman in one of your office buildings. When I grew overweight from the junk you made, because she wasn’t around to cook, you declared a War on Obesity, and profited by it.

    “I needed a father, I always needed a father, and you turned your back on me, and told me what you knew was a lie, that a mother or two mothers or a mother and a boyfriend would do just as well. When it didn’t work out, you blamed everything but your own selfishness.

    “I needed a father, and you were too busy with your sexual innovations to notice it.

    “I needed a married mother and father, what every child needs, what every child has a right to, and you told me to go to hell.

    “I went to hell, and have brought it back with me.”

    Anthony Esolen is Professor of English at Providence College in Providence Rhode Island

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  7. lovemygirl says:

    Test on new avatar – from Rumpole.

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  8. JB from SoCal says:

    An update Saturday from Mike McDaniel entitled,
    “The Trayvon Martin Case, Update 19: The Touch Stone”

    Focuses mainly on “Gun Control” and the hypocrisy of certain of those advocating same, including Sybrina Fulton, The New York Times and others, with many using the George Zimmerman Case as “ammunition,” if you will:

    http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-19-the-touch-stone/

    Like

    • hooson1st says:

      A commenter, ” SlingTrebuchet”, leaves an interesting detailed comment on that McDaniel thread, option 2 of which would seem to represent the prosecution’s theory of this case.

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        A long winded version of “He didna hafta git oudda cawr.”

        SlingTrebuchet: “The prime cause of the death was Zimmerman’s reckless behaviour.”

        Negative. The prime cause of death was Trayvon’s felony assault on Z.

        “behaviour” (British spelling) Sling Trebuchet = Piers Morgan ?

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  9. ytz4mee says:

    Providence College names award given for “combatting racism and social justice” in the name of Trayvon Martin.

    http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4604

    “George Zimmerman remains at large??”
    how biased is THAT?

    Like

  10. myopiafree says:

    Political Commentary: The “Standard Stupidity” of J. Jackson.

    Outrage of the Week: Jesse Jackson Claims Semi-Autos can “Blow Up Railroads”
    February 8, 2013

    This week’s outrage comes to us courtesy of the anti-gun Reverend Jesse Jackson. Rev. Jackson is not in the news as much now as he once was. When you do hear from him, though, his comments are still laced with his usual dose of hyperbole.

    That predictable pattern continues with Rev. Jackson’s recent comments on semi-automatic firearms.

    According to an article appearing on TheBlaze.com last month, Rev. Jackson believes that semi-automatic firearms must be banned because they could “shoot down planes” and therefore constitute a risk to national security.

    The Blaze ran a follow-up story debunking the claim, but that didn’t seem to deter Rev. Jackson, as this week he boldly declared that, in addition to shooting down planes, semi-automatic firearms could also be used to “blow up railroads.”

    “You know that these weapons can shoot down airplanes, they can blow up railroads. This is really a whole national security issue,” Rev. Jackson said in a recent interview on Fox News. Blow up railroads? What in the world is he basing that claim on?

    If Rev. Jackson is interested in the facts and wants to return this debate back to earth, he should know that semi-automatic firearms were introduced in the late 1800s, and have been popular for self-defense, hunting and target shooting ever since. Forty percent of all uses of firearms for self-defense are performed with semi-automatic handguns, and all firearms used in the annual National Rifle and Pistol Trophy Matches are semi-automatic.

    Though he seems to know very little about semi-automatic firearms, we assume that we will continue to hear Rev. Jackson make outrageous claims about this issue in the future. No doubt Jackson won’t be able to help himself, as he craves the spotlight to continue to push his agenda, using bizarre and truly outrageous claims.

    The anti-gunners–including Rev. Jackson–will stop at nothing to get what they want: a ban on your lawfully owned firearms. They will literally say anything they think will help them achieve their goal.

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      He did an interview last week and claimed the same thing about guns and planes. He really needs to buy bigger underwear, his brain is being squeezed to tight.

      Like

  11. libby says:

    Keep the Hoax Alive!!!!!!!!!!

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    • maggiemoowho says:

      I think/hope their Hoax is dying down. Not many showed up at the TM Peace Walk yesterday. The people count didn’t even make it to a thousand. Considering Miami Carol and Krop high schools(the schools TM was affiliated with) have over 5000 students combined, that is a very low number of people. Jamie Foxx worked about as good at pulling in crowds as a free hot dog, maybe even less.

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  12. waltherppk says:

    One of the things missing from discovery for longer than would seem reasonable like so much else in the way of omission of discoverable information unlawfully delayed or completely suppressed by the state, were the charted time log sheets for the 911 calls made by residents of the Retreat at Twin Lakes, which would be call log sheets similar to the call log sheet for the NEN call which was made by GZ. Those time sheets for the 911 calls of residents were needed to confirm the exact call times to the second for precise time of connection and call duration. Does anyone know if those 911 call time log sheets were ever provided ? Those time sheets were needed for making a more definitive analysis of the timeline of events. Especially what was a variable was the time the actual altercation began. There were many efforts at reasonably accurate range of times to within 1 minute or so from the time the NEN call of GZ ended for when the altercation began. My own “best guess” I think was around 40 seconds to 1 minute as the probable time window. According to GZ it was about 30 seconds after the NEN call ended that he was accosted by Martin just West of the top of the Tee intersection of the sidewalks, which tracked nicely in the estimated time frame based upon unconfirmed times for the 911 calls, which may or may not have been published with exactness to the second. The accuracy of the times for those 911 calls was in need for confirmation by the actual time sheets for the phone logs. Have the connection times for those resident 911 calls as were published by the news media ever been confirmed against the printed time logs for those 911 calls ? Or is that still “missing discovery” like so much else in the way of Discovery that should have been supplied within 20 days of charging but has been deliberately delayed or even withheld by the State in order to hinder defense preparation and prejudice the defendant instead of the State acting honorably to follow its own laws ? The timeline is very important forensic evidence which should have been provided in discovery as documented by the various sources for providing accurate times for the phone calls which were occurring in the minutes just before and following the shooting. It is a conspicuously glaring omission and is unlawful suppression of material evidence for such Discoverable information to have not been provided in a timely manner by the State. This matter alone involving delayed performance by the State in its duty to disclose timeline related information for the phone communications should be good grounds for any continuance, and certainly the delayed or missing entirely discovery information which has been suppressed unlawfully by the State goes far beyond just the delayed disclosure of such information as would help document the timeline of events established by the phone related time logs. Maybe the time logs for the phone calls are thought to be unimportant by the same people as think there is no real difference between iced tea and watermelon juice. Maybe those people need to pull their heads out of the grass where that kind of thinking is a steaming pile of b.s. fallen from an orifice still a little bit dripping. About all those timeline related duty to disclose type discovery materials …yeah… We want that too.

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    • jello333 says:

      Good questions. So far we’ve mostly been giving them the benefit of the doubt, and saying ok fine, there was about 2 1/2 minutes between the NEN call ending and the 1st 911 call beginning. And even with THAT, George’s story still works just fine. But there’s a chance that the amount of time was even LESS than that. Like you say, it’d be nice to know if those call logs are 100% accurate.

      And one other thing I’d really like to know involves the BEGINNING of the NEN call. We know the time Sean began speaking. But what I wanna know is WAS GEORGE ON HOLD or something before then? Based on what he says about trying to connect when he’s in front of the Clubhouse, I think it’s likely.

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      • waltherppk says:

        Recalling that the residents in the corner townhouse IIRC had their windows open on the North end of the building or otherwise heard the altercation begin on the West leg of the Tee and travel past the corner along a South Southwest track ….considering where the “heart” phone was found laying in the grass it would have been a miracle for the phone to pickup the sound of even people talking loudly some forty feet away. This is another reason to doubt the veracity of the “earwitness” saying she overheard the initial contact BEFORE the phone was thought by her to have been bumped into the grass. Things are out of sync here with the other earwitnesses who were on location and hearing the events outside their windows and walls and doorways, and hearing a lot of screaming for help too. Knowing what the actual disconnection time was accurate to the second for the “heart” phone would be a helpful piece of information in trying to make sense of these differing stories and trying to reconcile the discrepancies. Even without the GPS data just the accurate to the second timestamps for the calls would be helpful.

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      • jordan2222 says:

        Remember this?
        In a timeline included in evidence documents released last week, Sanford police spelled out down to the second, what happened the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin, based on time-stamped calls to their dispatch center.

        It shows Zimmerman fired 1 minute, 57 seconds after he hung up.

        *1911:12 – Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person

        1913:19 – Zimmerman relays that suspicious person is running from him

        1913:36 – Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following suspicious person

        1913:36 – Dispatcher advises Zimmerman “Okay; we don’t need you to do that”

        1915:23 – Approximate time call with Zimmerman ends

        1916:43 – 911 call placed by (blacked out name) where Zimmerman is heard screaming for help

        1917:20 – Shot fired; screams from Zimmerman cease

        1917:40 – Officer T. Smith arrives on scene

        1919:43 – Officer T. Smith locates and places Zimmerman in custody.

        *The Seminole County Sheriff’s Office, which handled the call, reported it came in at 1909:34.

        Source: The office of Special Prosecutor Angela Corey from the Report of Investigation prepared by Sanford police Investigator Chris Serino.

        Less than 2 minutes elapsed between the time George hung up and when the shot was fired and only 1 minute and 20 seconds elapsed between the time George hung up and the 911 call during which Zimmerman is heard screaming for help. The shot was fired 37 seconds later.

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        • nettles18 says:

          Thankfully this is the WRONG timeline that Mr. Crump and Co. had when they put together W8’s narrative. Detective Singleton mistakenly picked up the Event Created time instead of the connection time in her report.

          Here is the Event Log Sean the dispatcher created. You’ll note the connection time of 7:09:34 in the top left-hand corner and the time Sean started the event log to detail the call at 7:11:12

          If someone connected with Trayvon during the 7:12 minute we know they talked to him after GZ said to dispatch “Shit, he’s running”. Sean typed that event into the log and hit enter on the computer at 7:11:59.

          The call on the records before the 7:12 minute was 7:04 and it was a dropped call, lasted less than a minute. So whoever talked to Trayvon that night was not talking to him as he observed GZ sitting in his truck and Trayvon was not on the phone when George observed him and decided to call police and connected at 7:09:34.
          Here are the phone records, Mr. Crump gave the press.
          http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

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          • jordan2222 says:

            I kept that from a long time ago.

            I have seen various time lines. Which one is correct?

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            • nettles18 says:

              He connected at 7:09:34, then go from there.

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              • jordan2222 says:

                OK, I got it so if I do that, then this statement is still true. Right?

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              • jordan2222 says:

                Sorry this statement:

                Less than 2 minutes elapsed between the time George hung up and when the shot was fired and only 1 minute and 20 seconds elapsed between the time George hung up and the 911 call during which Zimmerman is heard screaming for help. The shot was fired 37 seconds later.

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                • nettles18 says:

                  George hung up at 7:13:41 and W11 was the first caller to call 911 at 7:16:11 – 2 minutes and 30 seconds. The shot can be heard on her call at 7:16:56 – 45 seconds into her call.

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                • jordan2222 says:

                  I see what you are saying. Do you think the time line will be disputed? I ask because I have seen different ones… Susan Simpson had an entire blog based on the time line.

                  At one time, I heard this a lot: “There are only 80 seconds that are unaccounted for”

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                • jello333 says:

                  So whichever the case — whether it be 80 seconds (1:20), or closer to 150 seconds (2:30) — there’s still no time for George to have done any “hunting”. Take away the time it took the first 911 caller to get around to actually placing the call after George & Trayvon came face-to-face…. just NO. No way did George have time to go running all over hunting down the little child. Just…. NOPE.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  There was an article recently at click Orlando about some guy who disputes George’s reenactment version and even Nettles agreed, I think. Do you recall how much time he figured into it?

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                • jello333 says:

                  I’m not certain, but I think most of those disputes go back to assuming George was correct when he said he was already talking to Sean while still parked in front of the Clubhouse. Because no, if that was the case, the times/distances don’t match up right. But as Nettles and I were mentioning a few minutes ago, there’s a good chance that George was either on-hold, or talking to some kind of “switchboard operator” or something while at the Clubhouse. And only got connected with Sean after driving around onto Twin Trees Lane. If that’s how it went down, then the rest of George’s description (as we hear on the NEN call) lines up just fine.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  got it

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  I can’t reply Jordan so I’ll try to put it here. Hope you see it. There was a mistake made on the timeline when it first came out b/c Det. Singleton mistakenly picked up the time that Sean, the dispatcher, started an event log. No one knew that until discovery of the event log came out. As a result, Crump and the media were dealing with the wrong start time. You’ll note lots of articles about the missing minute or 80 seconds.

                  The timeline is not in dispute. If you put a time-watch on the start time of 7:09:34 and hear GZ tell Sean “Shit he’s running”, the time is about 7:11:42, Sean asks which way is he running and GZ answers. Sean types the Subject is going toward the back entrance and hits enter on the keyboard at exactly 7:11:59. GZ goes on to talk and ends his call at 7:13:41.

                  As we don’t hear any wind in the phone and taking into consideration GZ said he never ran he just walked, I think GZ completed his call to Sean while standing at or near the T intersection and looking and watching for movement down the backyards of W11 and W6. Once he completed his call, there is a missing 2 minutes and 30 seconds before W11 calls police.

                  GZ says he went to RVC to get an number on the house. He knew the street was RVC but didn’t know the house numbers nearest that sidewalk. He likely looked again south, to see if he could see Trayvon come out from between the houses. He didn’t see anything there and he started heading back to his truck. According to GZ, W13, W20 and W11, they heard the 2 exchange words with each other at the side of W11’s house. W11 heard the scuffle go into her backyard and beyond. Thanks to her call, we hear 45 seconds of what she heard.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  You really know this stuff in great detail. How do you keep track of it or is it in your memory bank?

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  I’ve been talking about the details of the case daily since late April. I usually check my links to data before posting to ensure accuracy.

                  The mistake in the initial time is going to expose what Mr. Crump did if what I believe turns out to be true. Which is that he helped the young lady piece together the events of Feb. 26th using the NEN call, the 911 tapes and a faulty timeline.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  It is not my style to wish bad things on other people but I can’t help it in this case. I want, so much, for things like you are saying to be brought completely into the sunlight… I want every sordid little detail to be exposed in full view of the entire world.

                  If that happened, maybe we could organize a movement to take action, even if it is only writing letters that include documentation of the facts, demanding/asking for an apology and/or explanation.

                  Many of us have a “vested interest” in this case so we are offended in a similar manner as the Zimmerman’s and we want justice for George AND US.

                  Like

              • jello333 says:

                I’m still trying to find out if all “connected”s are created equal. I mean, I know when you call 911, they usually pick up with 5 seconds or less, so there’s no “hold” time. But I don’t know if that’s the case with NEN. The reason I ask is George’s statement during the walkthrough, where he talks about parking in front of the Clubhouse. At first he says he was already talking to Sean while he was there, but on other of his statements he said something about being on hold while at the Clubhouse, and only getting through once he had pulled around onto Twin Trees Lane. The latter seems to be what actually occurred, based on what we hear on the call. But I just wonder if there’s an official NEN log that includes ALL the times involved, including when their phone system first picks up and puts a person on hold (assuming it does that).

                Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  I agree. I also heard GZ say in one of his statements that he finally got connected. It sounded like he had to wait to get Sean on the phone. We hear from the time he connected with Sean but what went on before that connection happened? Sounds to me like he got transferred to Sean by someone else.

                  When George is giving his statements how does he know where the NEN call started recording in the night’s events?

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Yep. The only reason I keep harping on this, is that it’s one of the very, very few “discrepancies” in any of George’s statements that amount to anything. Actually even THIS one isn’t that big a deal, IMO, because even if he’s wrong about connecting with Sean while still at the Clubhouse — which I think he pretty clearly is wrong — how can it possibly be considered a “lie”? WHY would he lie about that? It wouldn’t help him one iota. In fact, since it’s so clearly wrong, it makes people QUESTION him. So I think George is obviously mistaken when he says he was talking to Sean while at the Clubhouse. That’s fine. I would just like to be able to prove WHY he’s mistaken… that being that he was ON-HOLD at that time. Heh… whatever…. I’m kinda talking in circles right now, but I think you get my point. 😉

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  I do not recall this little detail.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  Mr. Crump also thinks GZ was at the clubhouse sitting in his car when Trayvon is on the phone with W8.

                  However, we know from the corrected timeline, W8 connected with Trayvon after he ran down the backyards and disappeared.

                  The statements about getting out of the rain, creepy guy in car watching and the mail thingy it totally made up. Those events would have occurred before Trayvon ran. She connected AFTER he ran.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Correct

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  So….if W8’s call ends sometime during the 7:15 minute. And witness 11 hears them at the side of her house in the seconds before she calls 911…..how does the phone end up in W3’s backyard? We hear GZ screaming for help on her call which started at 7:16:11 so the earphones could not have hit the grass when and where she said they did. Nor should the phone be in W3’s backyard. It should be at the side of W11’s house.

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Oh good… I hadn’t thought of it that way. As if we needed more reasons to question Dee Dee’s credibility. I’m really serious when i say the Schemers are looking for some way to make Dee Dee and her statements just go… POOF! If they can think of some other way to continue to persecute George, they’ll do it. But even if the can’t… well, Dee Dee is now much more dangerous to the Schemers than she is to George.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  And Crump said, “oh crap.”

                  Like

                • dmoseylou says:

                  DeeDee is going to pull a Tawana>>>No Show, No Depo, No testifying. POOF! Some one finally found TB after 25years!

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  What we need is a side by side comparison of George’s call and the authentic call records between Martin and DeeDee. Unless the state can produce that, the ear witness disappears.

                  Like

                • dmoseylou says:

                  YAH! You and R-2 did good on the new avatar. I LIKE it. (Who is it?)

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Thanks but credit also goes to jello who picked it out. I do not know who it is except the person appears to be a serious thinker.

                  Like

                • dmoseylou says:

                  Jello, who is the person in Jordan’s avatar?

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Oh, I’m glad you asked. Well, Jordan mentioned he was wanting to get an avatar, so I started thinking about what would be good. And based on what I’ve got to know about Jordan, the kind of guy he is, I did image searches for things like “thinkers”, etc. Of course I kept coming up with the famous statue of the naked, seated guy. I thought, NAH. 😉 But then I saw the image of the dude that Jordan ended up using. So… you wanna know who he is, huh?

                  Umm…. I have no idea. 😉

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Now that is funny……

                  Like

        • jello333 says:

          Thanks Jordan. Wow…. 1:20 from the end of the NEN call to the start of the first 911 call? Subtract the time it must have taken that caller to hear the verbal confrontation, realize it was something serious, decide to call 911, and actually place the call… well, we’re probably left with no more than about 30 seconds! Only around 30 seconds from the time George’s call ends, to the time he’s confronted by Trayvon. And during that time, George runs nearly 400′ to the south, finds Trayvon, and chases him nearly 400′ back to the north?

          GEORGE “USAIN BOLT” ZIMMERMAN!!

          Like

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Jordan – Thanks for the “Time Analysis”. My “guess” is this. TM saw George in the truck, and was angry that this guy was watching him. So in his anger (at “Whites”), he “baited” George to follow him. He ducked behind the corner, and lay in wait for George to follow. (He was not talking to anyone – because he was too close – George would have heard him – obviously.) Then he let George go past him, and heard him “banging” his shoe. When George turned back towards his truck, TM stepped up to George, and said, “… you have a problem now”, and smashed George in the face with his fist. There was no PHONE DISCUSSION, and no PROOF of any such conversation. DeeDee is a bold-faced lie. The STATE is hiding the “Ping Logs” (if any), the phone records (for this time-period), the contents of the phone (by testing a “flip phone”). The Bernie lies continue.

            Like

          • jordan2222 says:

            jello, the times are not correct. Start at 7:09:34 and move everything forward. See nettles post above.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              I saw that, so yeah… it’s confusing. And as I said in another comment a few minutes ago, I’m STILL not certain what that start time represents. I’m still wondering about any possible “hold” time or whatever. Waiting for Nettles to answer. Tick tock, tick tock… 😉

              Like

              • nettles18 says:

                LOL, I answered above. I too think GZ was on hold before he got Sean. Do you call the nen number and it rings right through to Sean. Doubtful. The 7:09:34 is the time he connected with Sean, but what time did he connect with the switchboard who directed his call to Sean?

                Like

              • jordan2222 says:

                jello:

                Your observation of me and choosing that gravatar were right on.

                Reintroducing the time line today, out of the blue, into this thread is typical of what I do. I have all of these nagging little questions still swimming around inside my head. When the moment is right, I pounce on an appropriate opening in the dialogue so it does not sound like I am intentionally changing the subject.

                Nettles has become a resource center here. She is like a library. Her quick and accurate replies remind me of cathyca, who once gave us great legal insight.

                We still have a lot of loose ends to tie up.

                Like

              • boricuafudd says:

                I understand why the timeline is important, because it exposes the Crump Narrative, as improbable if not impossible. Another problem with Crumps narrative is it expects people to believe, that TM felt threaten and conveyed that to DD. TM had no reason to feel threatened, as far as TM knew a truck passed, the driver then placed a called or was on the phone when he stopped. He passed the truck, and saw the occupant and walk, skipped, or ran from him. A minute or so later the truck driver moved his truck parked and moved in his general direction, all of which he would not be able to see if he had kept going towards Brandie’s apartment. So where was the Threat, the Chase, it not evident and never was.

                Like

    • MJW says:

      The 911 logs were eventually provided in the 5th discovery supplement.

      The times are:
      7:16:11-7:18:40, 7:16:35 (1669) {-45} jlowell: W11 [caller 3]
      7:16:41-7:21:49, 7:17:08 (1671) {-15} tbeckman: W3 [caller 4]
      7:17:06-7:31:32, 7:18:53 (1680) {10} lmiller: W18 [caller 7]
      7:17:15-7:19:04, 7:20:43 (1656) {19} gcamaren: W6 [caller 2]
      7:17:54-7:19:45, 7:18:24 (1677) {58} crossle: W5 [caller 6]
      7:18:00-7:21:17, 7:18:17 (1676) {1:04} cvelez: W19 [caller 5]
      7:19:04-7:21:01, 7:19:12 (1681) {2:08} snoffle: W14, W15 [caller 8]

      The format is:
      StartTime-EndTime, EventTime, (Event) {TimeToShot} CatllTaker: Witness [CallerNumber]

      Like

      • MJW says:

        CatllTaker should be CallTaker

        Like

      • waltherppk says:

        That link isn’t working for me. The times need to be compared with times at the following link which are the times relied upon earlier

        http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/911stamp/

        Like

        • nettles18 says:

          The start times all match exactly.

          Like

          • waltherppk says:

            Okay then I was close with my own guess at 40 seconds after George hung up the loud voices. Chip Bennett has been seeing a wider time window there, but it has been so long I don’t recall now how I estimated the 40 seconds…..would have to look for my notes and do it all over again. I know Serino was stopwatch timing a witness statement describing and reenacting movements to reverse engineer the timeline, and it was the same kind of thing I was doing for the residents statement who lived in the end townhouse, and for others also.

            Like

            • nettles18 says:

              George hung up at 7:13:41. The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11 – 2 minutes and 30 seconds later.

              Like

              • jordan2222 says:

                So 80 unaccounted for seconds is really 2 minutes and 30 seconds? . Do we really know how far was it to his truck from the point at which he ended the call?

                I need to think about this some more

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  But this is important: Just keep in mind that regardless of which of those times we’re talking about (1:20 or 2:30), those are the times from the end of George’s call to the beginning of the 1st 911 call. But what we’re concerned with is not the time of the 1st 911 call, but rather, the time George ran into Trayvon. And as Chip said, that likely happened a minute or so (maybe a little more, maybe a little less) BEFORE the 1st 911 call connected. Therefore the “unaccounted for” time is NOT either of the original times mentioned… neither 1:20 nor 2:30. It’s about a minute LESS than that. If we take the first figure (which may not be right), and subtract a minute, we’re left with only 20 seconds. But forget about that; let’s go with the more likely 2:30. So take away a minute from that, and we’re still left with only 1:30. That’s it. That’s likely the MOST time George may have had between the time he hung up, and the time he came into contact with Trayvon. NOT EVEN REMOTELY enough time to go “hunting around”.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  You do not have to convince me. When I said I need to think more about this, I meant that in the context of the state’s case and what they will say. Would they say he had 2 minutes to get back to his truck? How far would that be?

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Probably around 300′ from the east end of the sidewalk to where he was parked. So yeah, walking at a medium pace of say 3mph, he could get back in less than a minute and a half. So if that was the only question, the only variable — which of course it’s not — yeah, he could have made it back in that time.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  We have a great way to estimate that Jordan. Watch the re-enactment video. They get from where GZ said he parked and they walk to the T intersection. How long does that take.

                  Keep in mind, GZ went to look for the house number after his call. If he did it during his call, as Tony Pipitone’s expert tried to say, he’d have given Sean the number of the nearest house to the sidewalk. Further, we don’t hear the wind in the phone so, imo, GZ is stationary at the T until the end of call.

                  However long it took GZ to walk to the T intersection from TTL is likely the same amount of time needed to walk to RVC to get house number. Also it’s highly likely he looked down the street for any signs of Trayvon.

                  In one of his statements, I recall GZ saying he again looked down the sidewalk separating the backyards and did not see anything. He thought the kid was gone. He continued on until he got to the side of W11’s house.

                  *In watching the re-enactment video, know that GZ is giving this statement less than 24 hours after a devastating event. He does get confused but we have enough objective evidence to piece it together quite nicely. Use the video to see how long it would take to walk to the T intersection. I thought around 33 seconds.

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Thanks.. I have it but will the state agree?

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  I don’t see one thing in discovery that evidencing GZ continuing to pursue TM after he lost him.

                  The GPS on George’s phone may also provide evidence of where he was.

                  Regardless how is the State going to convince a judge or jurors that a pursuit occurred and GZ caught up to him right where he lost him?

                  Like

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Thanks. I am glad I brought the time line up today because it helped me a lot and I hope it did others, too. I think I was still stuck on the 80 second story before now. So all we need now to complete the rest of the time line is DeeDee and Trayvon’s phone call.. IF there was one.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  The phone records that Mr. Crump gave the press show a call from 7:12 to 7:16.

                  The cell phone providers charge us the maximum air time they can with every call. When we connect, the round down to the nearest minute and when we disconnect, they round up to the nearest minute.

                  So the bill shows Trayvon connected with someone between 7:12:00 and 7:12:59 (we know he had already run and lost George by this time) and the call could have ended anywhere from 7:15:01 to 7:16:00.

                  Like

                • MJW says:

                  Nettles18, the call log actually shows a call at 7:12 which lasted 4 minutes. What that means is a call starting between 7:12:00 and 7:12:59, lasting between 3:01 and 4:00 minutes:seconds. If the call began at 7:12, it could end as early as 7:15:01. It it began at 7:12:59, it could end as late as 7:16:59.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  My understanding is once you connect, the air time rounds down to the nearest minute and when you disconnect it rounds up to the nearest minute. If the call went past 7:16:01 the billing would have shown 7:17

                  Like

                • MJW says:

                  I meant to type: If the call began at 7:12:00, it could end as early as 7:15:01. If it began at 7:12:59, it could end as late as 7:16:59.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  The call had to have ended before 7:16. The ending time rounds up to the nearest minute. If the call ended at 7:16:20, the billing would have shown a 5 minute call starting at 7:12 and ending at 7:17

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  And what have we learned today? That GREEDY phone companies — with all their heads I win, tails you lose “rounding” — have made our attempts at calculating exact times MUCH more difficult. 😉

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  The State or the defense could just tell us the exact times, they know it. But this is too much fun for them to watch us struggle.

                  Like

                • MJW says:

                  No, the start time is rounded down (the call cost for some plans depends on the start time), and the call length (not end time) is rounded up.

                  Like

                • MJW says:

                  Call length is measured from the moment the call is initiated until the call is ended (called “send-to-end”), so it includes ring time. Non-connected calls aren’t billed.

                  Like

                • MJW says:

                  You’re most welcome, nettles18. I appreciate your very informative comments.

                  Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  There is no “missing” 2:30 because there were events occurring during that time which we know accounts for some of that 2:30 That 2:30 simply represents the gap between phone calls during which police were listening and recording what was being said and described. There is a 2:30 period of time not having recorded audio. But there was plenty going on in the way of events that were being heard by people during that unrecorded time and there can be a reasonable approximation made about the timeline for those things which were heard and/or seen by persons during that 2:30 when nobody was using the telephone.

                  Like

                • arkansasmimi says:

                  Very well stated Walther!

                  Like

                • jello333 says:

                  Heh Walther. 😉 I think you and I both latched on to the same part of Jordan’s comment. “I need to think about this some more.” I thought he meant he was gonna have to rethink the timeline. But turns out that’s not it. What he was wondering was whether that time gap gave the Scheme Team and the prosecution anything to work with. I think it’s pretty safe to say the answer is… NOPE… too bad, so sad…. Benny, Natty, Bernie, Little Angie…. sorry guys, you’re outta luck.

                  Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  No worries. We had the timeline locked down solid from the very start. There’s no wiggle room for a “missing time” theory scenario to be a “fill in the blank” opportunity for the scheme team. I think the ping logs showing actual to the second call times for the TM phone will cinch it that DeeDee actually heard zip. But in either case, ironic but true DeeDee actually helped George even if her colored testimony was even partly accurate or believed.

                  Like

            • Chip Bennett says:

              Quoting Nettles:

              George hung up at 7:13:41. The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11 – 2 minutes and 30 seconds later.

              I am saying that the longest plausible time between the end of Zimmerman’s NEN call and the beginning of the altercation was 90 seconds – accounting at least one minute for the verbal confrontation, the physical altercation to begin, and then to escalate to the point that the witnesses noticed it, became concerned enough to call 911, and to make the call.

              Even 2 1/2 minutes don’t give Zimmerman much time to do anything; but even less so, with only 90 seconds.

              Like

              • waltherppk says:

                This is some copy and paste from my old notes which may help with reverse analysis of the timeline from the shot which is accurately timed as a reference point.

                Put the ACTUAL time of the shot at 7:16:55 Witness 6 was at his door and shouted he was calling 911 about 60 seconds earlier at about 7:15:55, which is about 16 seconds before another neighbor made the first 911 call at 7:16:11 Obviously the loud voices had already occurred well before Witness 6 shouting he was calling 911 at 7:15:55 because Witness 6 lived adjacent where the body was found and the altercation had begun 40 feet North and proceeded South to the location of Witness 6 by 7:15:55. This time for the shouting of Witness 6 he was going to call 911 was established by Serino having the witness across the way reenact her steps to the phone to make her own 911 call after hearing Witness 6 shout that he was calling 911. So this time should be very close. The beginning of the altercation was earlier than 7:15:55 by at least the amount of time for two men scuffling to traverse the 40 feet distance, plus a few seconds for the initial verbal exchange which was heard by the residents of the end townhouse. Does this track with your analysis of the timeline ?

                Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  Yes it does. I had the shot only 1 second later your calculation. 7:16:56

                  I’ll have to look this up and provide it later, but I also learned in looking at these times, why W13 was able to take 3 pictures and Officer Smith didn’t know about them. The meta-data on the pictures does indicate that W13 took the photos before W18 can be heard on her 911 call telling dispatch when Office Smith walked to the T from RVC.

                  Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  Here’s more copy and paste from my initial analysis of the timeline, based upon times that seem to be accurate still unless i have missed something.

                  Consider the bearing of these true times in relation to the T-mobile cell phone records rounded to the nearest minute for the phone of TM reporting a 4 minute call 7:12 to 7:16. It is known the screaming started before 7:16 therefore that T-mobile call was rounded up from early in that minute or the phone went dead earlier and the disconnect tripped and timed out for billing at 7:16 but DeeDee did not report hearing the actual altercation only words exchanged preceding the altercation. The timeline for that T-mobile call to TM and what DeeDee reported hearing actually is helpful to GZ not TM, because if GZ was following TM as has been alleged with any sort of close pursuit with intent to detain, then opportunity had already passed providing no proof of that allegation. There is only evidence of TM being lawfully *observed from a distance* by GZ prior to TM backtracking to confront GZ. There is evidence TM voluntarily chose to close that distance by backtracking and to confront GZ. The deposition of DeeDee confirms. Can this tell us anything for certain about who started a physical altercation? No. However, preponderance of the evidence showing a battery of one person is material, AND this is where GZ’s claim of self defense is legally substantiated, not by conclusive proof (which is not necessary) but by a preponderance of the evidence which is there.

                  Like

                • nettles18 says:

                  The way the billing services work, the call could have ended anywhere between 7:15:01 and 7:16:00. The State and the defense will have the exact time it ended.

                  I learned something about air time billing practices. When we connect, the time is rounded down, so W8 could have connected anywhere between 7:12:00 and 7:12:59 and when we disconnect our call, the air time is rounded up. So let’s say they disconnected at 7:15:05, on the billing cycle that will show 7:16.

                  Like

        • MJW says:

          The link works fine for me. Try it again.

          There is a error in my table. The event for W6 is 1686, not 1656. 1656 is the event for Zimmerman’s NEN call.

          Whonoze’s call assignment was done before the logs were released, and is wrong for several callers. For instance, whonoze says the 7:17:54 call is from W6, John. However, the log I linked to shows that the 7:17:54 gives an RVC address (John is on TTL) and mentions a BM STANDING OVER SUBJ.” That has to be W5, Mary Cutcher.

          Like

          • waltherppk says:

            W6 is important as a reference in my timeline analysis so I will have to go back over these. I need to find my thinking cap so I can put it on….now where did I leave the damn thing ?

            Like

      • MJW says:

        On the next GZ open thread, nomatter_nevermind says it’s the 7th, not the 5th, supplement, and I think that’s correct. The 7th supplementt was released at the end of August. It’s seems to me somewhat outrageous that the state withheld it so long. I can’t see any reason other than to inconvenience the defense. Just like the evidence map, which should have been one of the first things turned over.

        Like

    • nettles18 says:

      Is this what you are looking for? The Event log that night.

      http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/eventlog918.pdf

      Like

      • waltherppk says:

        No I don’t think that’s it. Back when we were waiting for the detailed call logs it was for the authentication or correction of the time stamps found at this link:

        http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/911stamp/

        There should have been a detailed log for each call to 911 similar to the log there was for the NEN call that George made. I’ll look for that sheet to see if i can illustrate what I mean. Some of the times like time of connection are automatically logged by the phone system and other times are keyed in by the operator / dispatcher but are not accurate to the second because of the delay for typing the information. By having the actual time of connection for the audio recording starting point a very precise time to the second for the sound of the shot can be gotten. Working backwards from there it can be estimated with fair accuracy when the loud voices were heard by the people in the end townhouse on the West side of the Tee, which would be the point where GZ was being accosted by TM. GZ says that was about thirty seconds after GZ hung up his call to the NEN and that time of disconnection is already accurately known.

        Like

  13. eastern2western says:

    it is odd that I am still debating with people over an existence of an attack.

    Like

  14. brutalhonesty says:

    Change for Trayvon · 1,538 like this
    February 5 at 8:31am ·
    Judge Nelson gives #TrayvonMartin a birthday present today and denies #GeorgeZimmerman request to delay trial so they can further victimize Trayvon. VICTORY!!!

    SO A CONTINUANCE SO HE GETS A FAIR TRIAL IS “VICTIMIZING TRAYVON”…THESE PEOPLE ARE SICK.

    Like

    • rumpole2 says:

      If there is a continuance then the defence may well find more evidence, and will certainly be better able to analyse the evidence and employ experts to analyse the evidence.
      The prosecution too could perhaps get a clearer picture of the facts as they see what the defence discovers.. and they may well further evaluate what the evidence in fact shows. All good stuff if one is trying to get at the truth….. but BAD if you have your heart set on a guilty verdict (and a lynchin’)

      Like

  15. ottawa925 says:

    Not sure if anyone saw this but Leatherhead is claiming Frank Taffee came on his site and made racist comments which he will save to show Taffee is a racist at trial:

    Like

    • Lou says:

      I usually don’t like to judge according to a picture, but looking at FL’s stilll image, he looks like he has issues.

      Like

    • thehoff71 says:

      Something stinks about this. Watch this unfold closely.

      Like

      • That sounds familiar to what Trayvonites attempted with Robert Zimmerman. It was alleged that Natty had organized an attempt to portray the Zimmerman family as racists by way of creating false Twitter accounts in Roberts name. The alleged perpetrators tweeted racist comments from the bogus twitter account, those comments were captured & Trayvonite sites had spread the word that they had evidence the Zimmerman family were all racists… It’s going to keep on coming back to racism because The Scheme Team’s melding their two major modes of extortion, civil rights lawsuits & wrongful death lawsuits. The Scheme Team has the support of D.C. & the minority civil rights organizations. The greatest payoff for the Scheme Team & their political supporters is through wrongful death motivated by racism.

        Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      leatherman isnt a lawyer in this case……so how does he think he will do this?

      Like

      • debfrmhell says:

        When did Taaffe get charged with the shooting death of Martin?

        I got a follow request from him on twitter. I accepted because I can’t read his protected account. He accepted then I read some of the things he was putting out there. It made my toes curl up. I unfollowed him immediately. He hateful. And he is a bigot. IMO!

        Like

    • ytz4mee says:

      ??? I don’t understand this.

      Leatherman is not a party to this action.
      Taaffe is not a party to this action.
      The Martin supporters have screamed loudly that any social media purported to be TM’s or “the DeeDee’s” is fabricated and can’t be relied upon.

      How exactly is Leatherman going to “stuff this down …. fat throat?”

      Just when you thought the behavior of Team Skittles couldn’t get any more bizarre or disconnected from reality.

      Like

      • thehoff71 says:

        The last couple of days the posters over there have been turning on each other. In order to bring them back into the herd, they have to band behind a common enemy. It’s possible he is merely giving them a boogeyman to redirect the hate. I highly doubt Frank Taffee is posting on the lol blog.

        Like

      • Alexandra M. says:

        IMO, Leatherman (disgraced former defense lawyer) simply regurgitates the latest assigned “talking points” from the Scheme Team. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if NatJack and/or Crumpy are “helping him out [<—-$$] so to speak. It's well known that Leatherman and Leatherwife are BROKE. He's admitted it himself that he's trying to make his ridiculous blog a "source of income". LOL! Trouble is his dimwit Manson-esque followers are also broke. 🙂

        Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          Maybe his time would be more profitably spent dumpster diving for Seroquel.

          Like

        • WeeWeed says:

          Most of them are the same old ladies that inhabit the dog pound (and our Spam Can,) best as I can tell. I recognize a lot of the names from raaayycciiiiissss rants in our trash.

          Like

          • rumpole2 says:

            The internet world of US “True Crime” sites is surprisingly small…. IYKWIM.
            I started at Websleuths following Casey Anthony case (5 years ago?)… I skim through lots of other sites.. and you strike a lot of the same people.. with same names or other aliases.. after 5 years I know who a lot of them are. Same dopes. Silliest old duck at JQ now was exactly the same 5 years ago at Websleuths. That is why I have no illusions about them “learning” from their mistakes here. When this case goes pear shaped (for them). The school of hate-filled reef fish will simply dart off to another case… declare a “victim” as a stepping stone to finding someone (and his friends and family) who they can spew hate about.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              Wow, I learn something new every day around here.

              “Going pear-shaped” — The third meaning is mostly limited to the United Kingdom, Ireland and Australasia. It describes a situation that went awry, perhaps horribly wrong.

              Like

  16. brutalhonesty says:

    This is awesome, and no doubt how trayvon would have acted in court.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      LOTS of girls exactly like that running around. And I think there must be some little-known law of physics that says cuteness is caused by leaking brain cells.

      Like

  17. brutalhonesty says:

    another “foundation”
    http://trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com/
    DEDICATED TO HELPING AMERICAN TEENAGERS
    ATTAIN THEIR ASPIRATIONS
    WITHOIUT REGARD TO RACIAL ETHNICITY

    HELP US TO HELP OUR TEENAGERS MEET TODAYS CHALLENGES

    DRUGS-VIOLENCE-PROFILING

    HELP US KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL AND OFF THE STREETS

    WITH “THE CHALLENGE”

    THE TRAYVON MARTIN MEMORIAL FOUNDATION, INC.
    P.O. BOX 380579
    MIAMI, FL 33138

    info@trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com

    Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      LMFAO http://trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com/Resources.html
      Below are some helpful community related resources.

      Resources courtesy of

      TRAYVON MARTIN MEMORIAL FOUNDATION
      P.O. BOX 380579
      MIAMI, FL 33238

      info@trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com

      Like

      • brutalhonesty says:

        http://trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com/About.html
        The Trayvon Martin Memorial Foundations is dedicated to the teenagers of America. Assisting them to stay in school by providing extra-curricular activities that their High Schools are no longer able to afford. In todays economy, in many cases both parents are forced to work, long hours. They just can’t be there for the children after school. That is where the “Foundation” wants to supplement the schools and the parents with “THE CHALLENGE”

        Make a difference, donate today
        help us, help the kids
        send your donations
        to
        THE TRAYVON MARTIN MEMORIAL FOUNDATION
        P.O. BOX 380579
        MIAMI, FL 33138

        Like

        • brutalhonesty says:

          http://trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com/News.html
          NEWS
          Our Chairman: Walter A. Sutton has thrown down, the “gauntlet” and “THE CHALLENGE” has been given to the following Police Departments:
          Chief Matthew Boyd
          Miami Gardens Police Department

          Colonel David H. Brierton Jr.
          Neil Kirkman
          Florida Highway Patrol

          James K. Loftus
          Miami Dade Police Department

          EVENTS

          America realizes that it is served and protected 24 hous a day, 7 days a week by the dedicated men & women wh oserve as our police officers.
          The teenage members of the “Trayvon Martin Memorial Foundation” officially challenge members of police agencies throughout America to a series of spirited basketball games.
          The dates and location of these neighborhood games will be announced within the next few weeks. The “Foundation” believes that the law enforcement community and the teenagers of America can positively interact with each other.
          Our Chairman, Mr. Walter Sutton is asking that all of our teenage participants shoot the basketball through the net and hear the swiching sound to remember a smiling Trayvon Martin.

          Like

        • ytz4mee says:

          How many iterations is this putative “Foundation” going to morph through?
          First it was all about ending “racially profiling”.
          Whoops. In spite of the heavy handed wishes of Teh Won, even the Holder Just Us Dept couldn’t find “ebidense” of “racial profiling”.

          Then it switched to “Ending SYG and Self-Defense Laws”.
          Hearings were held, and the conclusion was no major changes to the current SYG laws.
          Whoops.

          So, now we’re back to the Grifter’s age-old fall back position: “It’s for the children“.
          Puke.
          As if there aren’t enough agencies that suck taxpayer dollars dry to keep misguided and undersupervised minority “yoots” off the streets.
          After school care, Boys And Girls Clubs, Big Brothers/Sisters, Police Benefit Athletic Associatons, and on and on and on.
          These people need to slink off the national stage and go crawl back under their ghetto grifting rocks.

          Enough.

          Like

          • justfactsplz says:

            Agreed. Enough. They are now working with the police when they refused to cooperate with SPD and did not trust them. Okay.

            Like

          • jello333 says:

            Announcing the launch of the Truth About Trayvon Foundation

            The main purpose of TAT is to expose and correct the lies and false image of Trayvon Martin that have been perpetrated by the young man’s family, family attorneys, and the MSM. We feel this is important in order to quell the hatred aimed at George Zimmerman and his family, as well as to sooth racial tensions in this country… hatred and tensions which were in large part brought about by these very same lies and false images.

            But there’s another reason. That being out of respect for Trayvon himself. We firmly believe that if he could see what has been done over the past year in his name, Trayvon would be angry, ashamed, and disgusted, particularly that his own parents have willingly assisted in the hoax. Trayvon was much closer to a man than to a child. Yet those with an agenda have portrayed him as a helpless, scared, little boy who just wanted to walk home with his candy. This is not only insulting to any thinking person’s intelligence… but more importantly, it’s insulting to the memory of Trayvon himself.

            Like

      • rumpole2 says:

        😀

        DEDICATED TO HELPING AMERICAN TEENAGERS
        ATTAIN THEIR ASPIRATIONS
        WITHOIUT REGARD TO RACIAL ETHNICITY

        HELP US KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL AND OFF THE STREETS

        FAIL!

        Like

        • dmoseylou says:

          TM, according to his social media, did Not like basketball. Also, obviously none of the foundation’s members knows how to install spell-check.
          WITHOIUT
          todays
          […] forced to work, long hours.
          swiching

          “Our Chairman, Mr. Walter Sutton is asking that all of our teenage participants shoot the basketball through the net and hear the swiching sound to remember a smiling Trayvon Martin.”
          http://trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com/News.html

          Like

        • libby says:

          That foundation should use its funds to teach parents the import of parenting (the martins were horrible parents who didnt parent-they should be in jail for their negligence)

          Like

      • nettles18 says:

        This website was setup on April 4th, 2012 (before GZ was arrested). It hasn’t been updated since June 2012. It looks like this effort was abandoned.

        https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=trayvonmartinmemorialfoundation.com

        Like

    • sundance says:

      Ah yes, the infamous Walter Sutton….. Chairman of the Trayvon Martin Foundation and former congressional candidate. Who can forget dear Walter:

       photo Waltersapplication_zps79f6ae89.jpg

      Like

  18. brutalhonesty says:

    found this while doing an unrelated search:
    http://twitchy.com/2013/02/05/on-trayvon-martins-birthday-twitter-users-hurl-hate-at-george-zimmerman/

    lots of captured tweets

    Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Wow, the hate that those tweeters ooz. I’ve come to the conclusion that most of those folks are angry because themselves or a loved one can no longer live a crime filled lifestyle without the threat of being shot by a law abiding citizen. Gone are the days when a person could just attack and rob someone without the fear of personal injury and death. I suppose having to fear being shot during a criminal act can be really bad for business. Must be awful to live a life filled with that much hate though.

      Like

  19. nettles18 says:

    It appears another show will open its season using the Zimmerman case for their agenda.

    “Investigative Discovery will ask if American Justice is truly color blind.”

    “Less than one year ago, the killing of young Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida sparked a nationwide dialog on racial profiling practices, including “stand-your-ground” laws, which state that a person may justifiably use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of an unlawful threat. These laws, which on their face may seem fair, have often been used to discriminate against, intimidate and even murder innocent minorities.”

    Show premieres on Wednesday, February 13th.

    http://press.discovery.com/us/id/programs/injustice-files-hood-suspicion/

    Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      “Florida’s Stand Your Ground law which was invoked in the Trayvon Martin case,” nope, never happened, unless you count the soros media and martins making it about that when it wasnt.

      Like

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Had to look this up and see who was involved with this program. Keith Beauchamp is behind this. He seems to only work with racial issues and he is also an attorney. I don’t think we will be hearing much factual evidence from any of the cases that are outlined. He groups Emmett Till and Trayvon together. That says it all to me.

      Like

    • Cupcake says:

      What is just unbelievable is that even a year later stories like this are thrown out there as if there was no assault on GZ whatsoever prior to the shooting. I don’t get it.

      Like

    • Alexandra M. says:

      Typical…..the show’s protional segment features Traydmark photo in red Hollister shirt. :(.

      Like

    • ottawa925 says:

      I spotted that nettles and have it for DVR record. It just goes on and on and on. When will we see a program on black on black gang crime, out of control black youth, black women with 70%+ children born out of wedlock, black fathers totally absent in the family unit, effects of black culture (thug rap music that promotes use of the N-word, killing, guns, violence, and degrading of women)? Are there any shows coming up on that? nah … didn’t think so … let’s just continue to ignore the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, let’s just continue to sell the story that it’s all the white man’s fault. geeez Louise.

      Like

  20. brutalhonesty says:

    the police didnt do their job. they investigated the the predetermined outcome that trayvon was some innocent child with a future and george was a racist murderer. they botched the investigtion.
    they didnt investigate george being the victim. they didnt look at tm as the dead suspect of an attempted robbery or at least a random knock out game type assault……so they didnt search brandis when they found out thats where he lived, and when the martins said he was on the porch they didnt ask them why they said that…did he leave items behind…..these are important investigative angles they missed.

    Like

    • mung says:

      Sorry, I don’t agree with that. The majority of the police involved thought this was a justified self defense shooting and investigated it based on that. The innocent child crap didn’t come out until well after.

      Like

      • brutalhonesty says:

        I agree with you, except for serino and the 3 people he named, and the corey.

        Like

        • brutalhonesty says:

          I mean of all the police involved, serino was the lead investigator…everything else was at his direction. if one of his cops said “he let me go check out their house just as a visit randomly, see if I see anything in plain sight, or if I smell anything, talk to them…see if they have pictures of him on the wall…ask them about the porch”..serino, under duress not to pursue such things, would have said “no. go do this instead”.

          Like

      • janc1955 says:

        Yes, mung, but as The Narrative goes, the police investigation was bad because Sanford PD are rayyccciissss.

        Like

        • libby says:

          There were racist cops in sanford. they were racist black cops.
          .
          racist black cops who helped prevent trayvon from being investigated when the leads were hot and the evidence was still there

          Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        I agree with the exceptions BrutalHonesty lists below.

        Like

      • libby says:

        it took a little while before the racist cops began to threaten and cajole fellow cops and tamper with evidence (preventing the collection of evidence is tampering in my book since it gets degraded if it isnt collected in time)

        Like

  21. jordan2222 says:

    test

    Like

  22. gannasview says:

    I was able to get up this morning and go to church without a worry that someone may be lurking behind a corner to hurt me. I am free to go where I desire. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for George and Shellie. It is a shame and disgrace that people have forgotten that a person is innocent until proven guilty! The absolute worse thing is that George did nothing less than all of those who are filled with hate would have done in this same situation! I will be glad when this is all over and George is exonerated. I believe in you George and I pray that God will soon deliver you from the prison that the race baiters, politically perverted, and hate mongols are content for you to stay!

    Like

  23. John McLachlan says:

    Either the phone found at the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death or the Martin family phone assigned to Trayvon Martin was allegedly in use and connected to another phone immediately prior to and during the confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. This phone has been publicly declared to belong to or be in the possession of W8, Trayvon Martin’s putative aspiring girlfriend.
    However, have the call records and ping logs of this phone been entered into evidence?
    Assuming that there was an actual phone connection at the time of the confrontation, suppose that the initial owner or user of the phone was someone who would not be so sympathetic for the media portrayal of Trayvon Martin.
    Could the Martin family have traced the initial owner and pursuaded him or her to give the phone to the individual now referred to as W8?
    Would the hypothetical change of ownership of the phone not be possibly revealed by a different pattern of calls and texts to a different network of contacts and a different pattern of travel and residence, revealed through ping logs?
    Has the prosecution released any evidence to substantiate the claim that the phone attributed to W8 actually was used by W8, prior to the death of Trayvon Martin and was not given to W8 afterwards, in order to provide corroboration for the introduction of false testimony?
    Incidentally, surely the ping logs for W8’s phone could be used to establish the address and hence identity of W8, as well as establish whether more than one person had assumed the identity of W8.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Great questions. And yeah, about this…

      “Would the hypothetical change of ownership of the phone not be possibly revealed by a different pattern of calls and texts to a different network of contacts and a different pattern of travel and residence, revealed through ping logs?”

      … you would sure think so.

      Like

    • justfactsplz says:

      You raise some very good points. I had not thought of the phone being transfered to W#8 from the original owner. The defense needs the ping logs and ALL information pertaining to tall of these phones.

      Like

      • waltherppk says:

        Yeah the defense needs to subpoena the call records and Ping Logs for the phone of W8 for a few weeks before the time of the shooting and generally such records would run monthly cycles so for the entire month of February 2012, this would be additional discovery since the State only disclosed those phone records of W8 from the day of the shooting, preventing any confirmation of who had the anonymous phone by any analysis of the use pattern for that same phone before that time. Yeah the complete records including ping logs for all the phones relevant to the case and witnesses near to it are definitely needed to eliminate suspected evidence tampering and witness tampering which seem evident may have occurred because of colored testimony and discovery delays and incomplete discovery.

        Like

    • John Galt says:

      “Would the hypothetical change of ownership of the phone not be possibly revealed by a different pattern of calls and texts to a different network of contacts and a different pattern of travel and residence, revealed through ping logs?”

      Perhaps historical location data for W8 phone calls is included in 2/26 to 4/2 phone records already produced in discovery, which might be why Crump denied knowing W8 name and address and why State blocked disclosure of W8 address to defense.

      Like

  24. arkansasmimi says:

    Curious how the First Annual Remberance Dinner went. So far all I have found is this. ROFLMAO is that ole CHUMP checking TrayMom out? http://www.fox30jax.com/content/topstories/story/Fathers-bound-by-tragedy-meet-for-the-first-time/RMxKi27NXEeHgidGRjEwKg.cspx

    Like

  25. John McLachlan says:

    The Martin family claimed to have discovered W8 by examining their phone records, indicating that at least some contact with Trayvon by the owner of the phone now attributed to W8 was by means of Trayvon’s family plan phone, not the phone with the heart shaped sticker, found at the scene of his death.
    Has anyone ever asked the Martin family or their lawyer how W8 could have heard the entire confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin by calling or receiving a call from a phone which was not recovered from the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death, but which had remained in the possession of the Martin family?
    When did the Martin family discover that Trayvon’s family plan phone was not in his possession at the time of his death?
    Do the phone calls made by Tracy Martin and by Chad indicate any knowledge upon their part that Trayvon’s phone was no longer in his possession?
    The state is aware of the phone number and call history of the phone found at the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death.
    The state is aware of the phone number of W8.
    Has the state confirmed that the phone now alleged to belong to W8 was in contact with the phone found at the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death, the only phone which could allow any contact with Trayvon Martin during the actual confrontation and lend any relevance to her testimony?
    Has anyone asked W8 which phone she was in contact with, whilst allegedly hearing the confrontation between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman?
    The state has, from the very start of the case been able to substantiate or refute the claim that someone was in contact with Trayvon Martin, prior to and during his fatal confrontation with George Zimmerman.
    The ping logs for W8’s phone could substantiate or refute the claimed identity for ownership of W8’s phone.
    Did Chad ever phone Trayvon, after Trayvon failed to return bearing Iced Tea and Skittles?
    Did he ever phone either his mother or Tracy Martin or any other Martin family member, after Trayvon failed to return?
    Were phone calls made from Trayvon Martin’s phone, after his death?
    If the ping logs for Trayvon Martin’s phone indicate movement, yet are provably separate from Trayvon’s actual movements, then this would suggest that Trayvon did not merely dump his phone, but gave it to someone else, who continued independent movement.
    Has Chad ever been investigated as a potential witness, or as a possible accomplice to an intended assault, perhaps intended to film an assault, using the perpetrators phone camera?

    I believe that there may have been contact with Trayvon Martin’s family plan phone during the earlier part of the evening but that he either ditched the phone or gave the phone to Chad, immediately prior to seeking a confrontation with George Zimmerman.
    The Martin family lawyer, noticing the calls so close to the time of Trayvon’s death either did not consider the relevance of the forensic evidence regarding ping logs or precise times of calls or considered that they would be disregarded in a plea deal, accepted by George Zimmerman under severe pressure from the state.
    Sybrina Fulton may have been correct; the phone record joins up all the dots:
    I believe that the anomalies in the prosecution narrative introduce the possibility of serious charges being brought against the Martin family, their lawyers and the state prosecutors and also could possibly lead to Chad being investigated as an accomplice to an attempted murder.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Most days here, I save a handful of comments for possible later reference. Today, yours is one. 😉

      Like

      • John McLachlan says:

        I have always had doubts that Chad was unaware of the police activity in the street.
        I believe that, if he had noticed the police activity around an apparent crime-scene, that he would have had concerns about Trayvon Martin’s whereabouts and welfare and communicated these concerns to his mother and hence Tracy Martin.
        Equally, if he was complicit in an intended assault and witnessed its sudden termination, he would have, likewise, phoned his mother, if only for advice.
        I believe that the new knowledge about the significance of ping logs for phones may concentrate the minds of Chad and his mother.
        It is unlikely that Brandi would be prepared to risk any potential charges being brought against her son, merely to advance an extortion scheme developed by the Martin family and their lawyers.
        I believe that if Brandi or Chad understands the significance of the ping logs, they might surmise that Chad’s interests may be best served, if George Zimmerman receives immunity from prosecution and the case does not go to trial.
        I also believe that if there were a credible threat that Chad could face criminal charges, then Brandi might tell all, in exchange for immunity for her son.

        Like

        • waltherppk says:

          You could be right about the odd location where the phone was found introducing a possibility the phone was in the hands of another not Trayvon and was dropped by someone fleeing. One of the witnesses reported hearing the footfalls of a person running on the sidewalk soon before the sound of the shot, and at one point said she thought it was the sound of two persons running, perhaps one being chased by another, but then changed that story and said no she thought it was only one persons footfalls she heard go past on the sidewalk outside her window. What sort of images might be stored in that phone could be interesting.

          Like

          • boricuafudd says:

            IIRC the direction of those footfalls, according to her were towards the T. Which the private prosecutor quoted as proof of a chase, on a least one occassion. A later interview she change the quantity of shadows to possibly one, not the original two, but she maintained that the direction was towards the T. I speculated that what she saw was TM heading back, but it could very well have been Chad, following TM.

            Like

            • waltherppk says:

              She wasn’t wearing her glasses or her contacts were out or something, and maybe her ears or memory don’t work so good either 😀 But yeah she heard running I’ll buy that.

              Like

              • boricuafudd says:

                To me its the direction of the running that is important, towards the T, before the altercation.

                Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  That is interesting, that runner towards the Tee could have been somebody who was leaving from right beside his father’s house a few seconds earlier.

                  Like

                • boricuafudd says:

                  Exactly, at the beginning it was thought as proof of a chase by GZ, until the timeline interfered. Now it is rarely mentioned. Think about how many times have you heard that someone was running towards the T before the altercation, regardless of how many shadows she might have seen.

                  Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  Why wasn’t the news media focused on that witness and the significance of the runner TOWARDS the Tee …..instead of the media being focused on Cutcher and Mother Cutcher ? Because the media had a narrative to advance and did not want people to THINK what the RUNNER towards the Tee means.

                  Like

                • boricuafudd says:

                  As with much in this case that is exculpatory, the evidence is ignored, or minimized, while everything is highlighted.

                  Like

                • waltherppk says:

                  We have given a good review for the newcomers who may not know we were already aware of all these things a long long time ago. Getting through the brainwashing requires provoking them to think past the bias which has been “imprinted” by the propaganda ministries we laughingly call the news media. We have done to them what little green footballs did to Dan Rather. And we are not done yet.

                  Like

                • boricuafudd says:

                  It pains me everytime I hear stuff like, GZ ignored an order to stay in his truck, GZ chased TM down, etc. I used to respect the News Media, and would defend reporters when they erred, now I see that what they say is intentional, no matter what damaged is done.
                  I think it was 1989, when as the Berlin was falling, there were reporters trying to convince people of how bad and dangerous it would be to have both Germanys united. I remember saying WTF!

                  Like

            • libby says:

              Somebody had to video the beat down trayvon was planning…..how was trayvon gonna get that beat down on youtube if he couldnt count of chad to film it?

              Like

        • howie says:

          The Black Panthers might track them down if they did.

          Like

    • waltherppk says:

      The “heart” phone found at the scene is a Martin family plan phone and when the phone was charged and used to dial 911 to get the number by caller ID via the 911 call made by an investigator, that investigative call showed up on the Martin family plan phone bill.

      Like

      • John McLachlan says:

        I have seen others claim that the phone with the heart shaped sticker, found at the scene did not belong to Trayvon Martin, was not part of the Martin family phone plan and that his phone was surrendered to police, later, after attempts made to access and delete contents.
        Since evidence derived from phones may be critical in development of both prosecution and defence narratives, it might be helpful, if the known ownership of the phone found at the scene was prominently stated, in order to reduce speculation based upon falsehoods.
        Speculation is interesting, but should be based upon known facts, rather than falsehoods.

        Like

        • waltherppk says:

          There is an embedded MAC address (like a modem because a modem is exactly what the phone is) for every phone unique to that phone and reflected on the ping logs, so there would be no way to fake or swap or confuse the phones that would not be found out by a forensics expert or by a good lawyer doing a thorough discovery.

          Like

  26. howie says:

    Dooley. They Black Man that shot a White man in St. Pete and was denied SYG and convicted of manslaughter was in jail. He just got 100k bond to get out while he appeals SYG decision. Double Standard?

    Like

    • howie says:

      TAMPA — Trevor Dooley, convicted last month of fatally shooting his neighbor in September 2010, may post bail at the Hillsborough County Jail on Monday morning.

      A jury found Dooley, 72, guilty of manslaughter after he shot and killed his neighbor during an argument about a skateboarder using a basketball court in their Valrico neighborhood. He was sentenced to eight years in prison.

      But on Friday, Circuit Judge Ashley Moody granted Dooley’s motion for release on $100,000 bail while he appeals his conviction.

      It was unknown at what time Dooley would be released from the jail, said Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Larry McKinnon.

      When he is released, deputies will place a GPS monitoring device on him.

      Like

    • libby says:

      Double standard or the new racism?

      Like

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