02-25 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

REMINDER – Please WATCH THE TONE and CONTENT of Commentary. Please be respectful, courteous and considerate of other readers and contributors. Please avoid hatespeak, angry rhetoric, vulgarity, personal attacks and condescension. If you wish to engage in vitriolic, racist, or bitter angry rhetoric, there are alternative sites on the internet more than welcoming to such considerations. But not here. Thank You.

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395 Responses to 02-25 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest.

    I would like to continue to…. “Spread the Daft around”

    Though posts are mostly, but not strictly on topic as far as the case goes, I’m going to put them in a Members Only area… so we can have a good laugh at them and the dopes who write them.

    I will post them in the public GZ case thread only if they actually contain points about the case worth debating.

    Random Topics

    ……………………………………… photo cockatoo_zpsd358cb24.gif………………………………………
    If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.

    • rumpole2 says:

      Thanks Admin  photo kissy20face204_zpsd9d4b6e9.gif

       photo 8726e772-aa42-449c-9cea-c17aa56cccd7_zps9d673d0b.jpg
       photo top-points-smiley_zps256cb4a8.gif ……Admin

    • Chip Bennett says:

      still waiting for someone to cite the Florida statute that Zimmerman violated by allegedly “profiling” (criminally, racially, or any other way) Martin.

      • mung says:

        If there is one, wouldn’t Trayvon have violated it when he told Crump er I mean DeeDee that an old creepy white dude was checking him out?

        • libby says:

          blacks profiling whites is not a problem. whites profiling blacks is a problem.
          These folks insult the memory of dr king every day of their lives

          • jay says:

            In a previous post a commenter suggested a possibility of TM catching a ride with the “3 amigos” from 7/11, who were all white.. Now he was racially profiling gz lol cant have it both ways..

            • jello333 says:

              I think of the Stooges is black. But regardless… Are you saying you see no racism on the part of Trayvon or his friends and family?

              • jello333 says:

                Admins: Please delete my comment. When I made it, it hadn’t read through some of this guy’s other comments. Since he appears to be a troll, I shall simply ignore. ;) (So I guess you can delete this one too…)

            • JB from SoCal says:

              Chip, mung, libby. jello ~ do you guys have high gasoline prices like we got going on here? Barry Soetoro — err, I mean Pres. Obama — has gifted us with $4.91/ gallon here in my neck of the woods. Ouch! We’re prob’ly the worst in the country for that. But then . . .
              We’re Number One! We’re Number One! . . .

              • jello333 says:

                Bush started us down that road, and Obama has made it FAR worse. But yeah, here in Illinois we’re again approaching $4, so it’s not nearly as bad as you have it. A few months ago it actually got below $3 for a few days, then started right back up. Right now, around $3.90… so compared to you, I guess I should feel lucky.

              • mung says:

                $3.85 in Central Florida right now.

              • libby says:

                You got it JB (I sure do miss socal)…gas prices aint too bad near the gulf … i used to go to compton (during the day) to a ncie place that had some nice perfume oils (I saw foreest whitaker there one day)

      • boricuafudd says:

        The Martin Foundation is trying hard to get such law passed.

      • rumpole2 says:

        Felony: Getting out of a truck when told not to do so by a NEN operator

        Felony: Walking a cockatoo not properly restrained on a lead. (Possibly failure to clean up cockatoo poop?)

        • jay says:

          Not a felony at all, Just a little proof the man was not “in fear”

          • mung says:

            Yes when someone is running away from you and you lose sight of them, you probably aren’t in that much fear. When that person jumps you and assaults you, the fear sets in pretty quick.

      • jay says:

        Not to sure of FL, law statute but I do know this, In Gz’s many incriminating statements (NEN call included) he reffers to TM as “Them,They an These” when asked “who they are” he replies “people who commited past break in’s” now, For him to automatically “group,catergorize,PROFILE” Tm as “they,these or them” what would be the connection???? there is only one common denominator, all were “black males” There is absolutely no toher connection that would cause GZ to make that assumption.. To call TM suspicious does not amount to profiling!!! But to automatically classify him with other local criminals based off of a drive by glance is by definition “racial profiling” state is giving him a break an simply accusing him of “profiling” based off the hoodie… Only thing TM had in common with “THEM,THEY,THESE” is RACE!!! THAT SIMPLE

        • JB from SoCal says:

          I’m thinking of getting a RAID card for my new build: Antec Piano Black Sonata case, Gigabyte M/B w/AMD Black Edition bundled, and Windows 64-bit Pro. Running C drive with a Samsung 120GB SSD, with 2 @ WD 2TB drives. This weekend, I’m getting another 2TB drive and using the 3 in RAID5 format gives me 4 terabytes capacity with total backup.
          In the past I’ve used HighPoint RAID controllers, but if anybody has a recommendation, please let me know.

          • justfactsplz says:

            You’re cracking me up.

            • JB from SoCal says:

              Oooh, I bet I know. It’s prob’ly when I wrote:
              “In the past I’ve used HighPoint RAID conTROLLers . . .”
              Sometimes I just like to play around with them, using different combinations to see what works best . . . you know, RAID 0, 1, 5, etc.
              Didn’t realize you were so tech savvy, dear justfactsplz . . . heh heh.

          • jello333 says:

            Show off! I’m just now thinking about dong my FIRST ever from-scratch computer build. But I’m gonna have to buy the parts little by little, because there’s no way I can afford them all at once. Probably gonna take me six months or so. But considering the laptop I’m using now is 10 years old, and the desktop is closer to 15… well, it’s gonna be amazing to have something new.

            • Better be careful about taking six months since computer stuff gets updated so often or you might end up with a computer that is like the car that Johnny Cash sang about. Ha.

              • jello333 says:

                Yeah, I’ll probably buy stuff like the case, power supply, optical drive first, since those aren’t likely to change much. I’ll wait till the last thing to buy the CPU, graphics card, etc.

                • JB from SoCal says:

                  You two both make good points.
                  That build described above started 6 years ago and was set aside because of conflicts between M/B and case. I finally realized it was time to dust it off & start all over again with 2013 parts, but it hurt a little to remove all those “brand new 2006 parts.” The new setup is so much better & so much faster with Solid State Drive and USB3, and I’ve managed to keep the costs under conTROLL, if you know what I mean.
                  I think you’re going about it the $mart way, jello, and nowadays they make it so easy to put them together. Best of luck on building it yourself, my fellow liberal (+/-) friend !

        • Chip Bennett says:

          Not to sure of FL, law statute…

          Then come back when you can cite an actual statute, mkay, Pumpkin?

          Run along back to JQ, and ask them if they can find one for you.

        • mung says:

          Pretty sure that was right around the time that Trayvon was profiling George by calling him an old white dude. You know the kind that you can put bangz on and get away with it?

          • libby says:

            And the media terms this “the good kind of profiling”
            hating on whitey is the good kind of hate according to our lame stream media

        • thehoff71 says:

          Yeah..looking..oh sorry, there’s no Them, They, These language in 776. As a matter of fact, there is no SOP For Non Emergency Number Citizen to Operator Dialogue either, nor is there a Statute that lays out “Should have stayed in the car” rules.

          • libby says:

            Did you look into the section of the laws that apply only to white people?
            Obviously blacks are allowed to roam all they want, but whites are supposed to stay in their homes and cars

      • jello333 says:

        Nelson is drafting one as we speak. With a “retroactive enforcement” clause, of course.

        “Your Honor! You’re talking Ex Post Facto here, the Constitution forbids that!”

        “Huh? What is this Const… what? What are you speaking of? Con Sti You Shun? Wha?… get outta my face!”

    • mung says:

      How does one register to get into the members only area?

  2. eastern2western says:

    despite the recent defeats, I still think the defense still have a lot of opportunities for impeaching dd because they still have not interviewed dd yet. Judging from her previous interviews, the only thing o’mara has to do is do nothing and let her tell her whole story. In the de la rionda interview, he was leading her through the whole thing with simple yes and no questions. In the crump interview, it was just even a bigger farce. oh well, I still think o’mara does not take a defeat lightly and he will pull an ace out of his hand soon.

    • raiikun says:

      Why West wanted to depose Crump (and why they’re trying to do the investigation that the State didn’t do) is pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.

      Getting an acquittal is easy, and O’Mara/West know it is. The evidence is so strongly in favor of self defense that there’s no way to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. (The evidence certainly meets the preponderance required for immunity too), so the acquittal is all but guaranteed. As Hornsby put it, they found a jury to acquit Casey Anthony, so there shouldn’t be any trouble finding a jury to acquit someone who is likely innocent.

      The hard part is getting immunity. Not because of the evidence, but because of the political pressure. So, that’s what they wanted with Crump…impeaching W8 won’t be hard (there’s already enough significant flaws in her testimony to do that even without a deposition), but if they could get Crump under oath, the Defense could build a good case to prove witness tampering. (And I think that’s what West was trying to dance around in court without making the outright accusation on Friday.)

      A lot of what the Defense has been working on has been about trying to make it as easy as possible for Nelson (or the 5th DCA) to grant immunity. Making a point of how the officers investigating shared the opinion that there was no evidence for charges aren’t admissible at trial, but it can be used to persuade the court why George shouldn’t be prosecuted.

      So, taking a step back and looking at the various things the Defense has been working on, it’s not nearly as bad of a picture as some think IMO. I think the Defense is convinced that if they were to start the trial right now, they would win the acquittal, but they wouldn’t be doing their job if they settled for that, when by rights George should have immunity.

      That’s why O’Mara said he’d be fine with Nelson ruling on immunity after the acquittal – the acquittal is guaranteed, and it would be another point to make it easier for Nelson to give immunity and guaranteeing George doesn’t face civil charges down the road.

      • John Galt says:

        “A lot of what the Defense has been working on has been about trying to make it as easy as possible for Nelson (or the 5th DCA) to grant immunity.”

        With immunity combined with trial, if immunity is denied and the jury acquits, I think there can be no appeal to the DCA of the denial of immunity because it is moot – double jeopardy bars further criminal prosecution. Nelson won’t even give the defense the address of witness 8 and you think she is going to grant immunity?

        “That’s why O’Mara said he’d be fine with Nelson ruling on immunity after the acquittal”

        Nelson’s clerk told Sundance that the procedure contemplated involves ruling on immunity before submitting the case to the jury.

        • Chip Bennett says:

          With immunity combined with trial, if immunity is denied and the jury acquits, I think there can be no appeal to the DCA of the denial of immunity because it is moot – double jeopardy bars further criminal prosecution.

          Forgive me if this has been answered and I just missed it: the immunity protection is not only against criminal prosecution, but also against civil action.

          Is that protection from civil action also considered moot if Zimmerman is acquitted of criminal charges? Aren’t Blackwell’s on-record statements that Crump will file wrongful-death civil suits against Zimmerman prima facie evidence that Zimmerman still faces jeopardy from which he has statutory grounds for relief on appeal?

          Isn’t immunity from civil action part of the “legislative intent” of the statute? How could it be lumped together with the criminal prosecution and thus considered moot?

          • John Galt says:

            I think the whole enchilada is moot. Nutshell: legislative intent was to avoid prosecution by providing a mechanism for determining immunity before trial. Peterson SCOFLA case said that is supposed to be done in a pretrial motion to dismiss. There is one case with a post trial immunity determination, but that was where the jury hung on one count, leaving open the possibility of further prosecution.


            “As a preliminary matter, petitioner’s claim is moot and the
            instant case must be dismissed. Petitioner recognizes that he has
            no remedy in this case (IB p. 7). Below, the motion to dismiss was
            denied and petitioner failed to request a stay of proceedings
            and/or file a Petition for Writ of Prohibition in the Fourth
            District Court of appeal. Rather, petitioner chose to proceed to
            trial and forego the immunity.”

            Colorado case on similar civil and criminal immunity statute:

            “Our conclusion that a trial court’s pretrial denial of immunity under the “make-my-day” statute cannot be reviewed post-trial does not mean that such a ruling is wholly unreviewable. Rather, a defendant may properly seek review prior to trial under C.A.R. 21.”


            • boricuafudd says:

              I think that the intent was to provide Immunity from civil actions, as well criminal action because the statute goes so far as to penalize the State for any expenses incurred defending the civil action. The double jeopardy argument is also moot as this is a Hearing after an acquittal no more protections are needed on the Criminal side, since that process is already protected, but on the civil side that were the consequences and penalties would have to be decided, and are still undecided.

              If the law was intended to grant only Immunity from prosecution a Motion for Dismissal before a Judge would suffice. Yet the law extends that further to include Civil actions and prevent frivolous claims, so I would argue that the intent for Civil Immunity is just as valid.

              • John Galt says:

                I think that would be a landmark case:

                State v. Zimmerman, SCOFLA, defendant may appeal denial of civil immunity after acquittal by jury following trial.

                • jello333 says:

                  Sure would. And in some ways, it would be good if at least parts of this case DID wind up in the hands of the FLSC. It would be real nice to have this case in the books (I mean casebooks) so students could study it for decades to come. Let them see just how horrible this whole thing was. Of course there’ll be books and movies, but there’s just something special about having it enshrined in a casebook.

              • howie says:

                I think the statute was enacted to extend the Castle Doctrine to one’s personal space. Even when one is outside his home or car and off of his own property. Reading the statute makes it clear. That is the intent of the legislation.
                In addition the statute provides immunity from civil action.

                • boricuafudd says:

                  IIRC correctly some of the proponents of the law came about from people that charged while protecting their homes after a hurricane from looters. Which led to the civil immunity to be added.

                • boricuafudd says:

                  Howie, was there not some controversy before the adoption of the law, due to people that were getting charged and sued while trying to protect their property after the hurricanes, from looters. I seem to recall that one of the State Reps wanted the immunity to extend to civil actions as well. One home owner testified that he was charged and later sue by a looter who was running away from him. The owner had discharged his shotgun in the air and the looter while running away tripped and was injured. The looter later sued the homeowner and won.

            • jello333 says:

              I agree with Chip. The statute has two distinct immunity benefits. You’re right that the criminal part would be moot after an acquittal. But not so the civil part. I just can’t imagine that the legislature’s intent would involve just skipping the civil part. So I DO think there could still be an attempt to get civil immunity. However, having said that, I do NOT want to see the immunity hearing “combined” with a trial.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Wow.. You say that so convincingly and I truly hope you are correct

    • John Galt says:

      “I still think the defense still have a lot of opportunities for impeaching dd”

      There are so many inconsistencies between her two interviews, the timeline and Trayvon’s route, I would be afraid to put her on.

  3. lovemygirl says:

    Rumpole – I went to bed after posting an odd home video with Zappa for you. I had it running in the background and when I saw Zappa, it was obviously towards the very end of his life. It was odd but appeared to be authentic. I shut it off after 20 minutes and never finished it.

  4. ottawa925 says:

    A friend wants to know if GZ can ask for a change of venue out of the State of Florida. If MOM/West can show that there is prejudice on the part of the State either through the Attorney General’s office or Court System could they not move to get the trial moved out of state?

    • justfactsplz says:

      Even Casey got a jury from out of town, Nelson won’t even do that.

    • Sha says:

      Ottawa: You keep reading my mind. I wrote a long paragraph yesterday and went to post it and it disapeared owch ! So I didn’t rewrite it. Some of what I said was if they put a mountain in front of us and we dont have the time or resources to go through it then we find away around or over it. That means finding specialist and advisors and any and everybody who will help from outside of Florida even news reporters. We need to find people that have nothing to lose from connections in Florida or anywhere else. We need allies…..

      I have also been thinking about the defense fund. If they are afraid to make the same mistake twice which is have money in it for living expenses and file indegent because they still need money for specialist and other things then why not hire the most important people now with the money that is in the fund and make the state pay for the rest because they created this mess( not the good people). Everyone can give to Georges mom and dads account to help with his living expenses…. He will be indegent but still provided for.

      We will not shut up …. we will not go away….. and we will not give up until George is Free !!!

  5. ottawa925 says:

    Something’s comin

    Let’s stay positive.

  6. diwataman says:

    Hmm, 5 days to file anything for March 5th hearing. ;)

    Just another reminder. Please don’t depend on me to capture the hearings. I will try but I often miss them myself.

    CamStudio and HyperCam2 are two types of screen recording software that are free and easy to use.



    There are others and of course as always use at your discretion.


  7. sunnydaze77 says:

    Tomorrow marks the 1 year anniversary of the day that Georges life was turned upside down.GEORGE, sometimes we get caught up in writing and responding about the proceedings that we forget to wish you a good day. Just about everything and every ruling in this case stinks George, but i try and keep the faith that in the end you will be ok and that some type of justice is brought to the liers, schemers and manipulators involved. Bless you and your family George!

  8. mung says:

    The reaction of the state and Crump to this whole mess around Witness 8 is very telling. if they weren’t so worried about the truth coming out about her and what happened with her, they would have been shouting it from the rooftops. But besides trying to hide her in court, there have been absolutely no statements to refute the claims made against her.

  9. thehoff71 says:

    Wrote this yesterday in the 02/24 thread and I thought I would drag it here..

    You know, I thought about this long and hard over the weekend: If Bernie De La Rionda is so deluded by the Twitter Dog Pound, Natalie Jackson, Doth Protest and assorted other characters into thinking the Seminole County Bar Association President and 30 years of legal experience is taking his marching orders by a bunch of random ppl on a blog, then their case is as borked, if not more so, than we know. Say what you will about MOM, and lately I have been boggling at him as well, this level of assumption may bite these trayvonistas in the ass on down the line.

    And as far as this “doxing” business goes, that’s a 2 way street as well. They know the weight of their own sins. The rampant hypocrisy of these people never cease to amaze me. So screw ‘em..keep demanding sunlight, Sundance.

  10. ejarra says:

    This is a comment I made over at RT:

    I’ve been spenting quite a bit of time over there, even as recently as this morning, trying to end the IMPRINTING the causes opinions to form based on false information. I and other pro GZ commenters could use you help. Please give us a “thums up” vote and a “thumbs down” to his detracters. It will go a long way to changing people when they see so many agreeing with the TRUTH. I believe that this is a great place to start to end the “IMPRINTING” of which Rumpole alludes.

    Link: http://discussions.orlandosentinel.com/20/orlnews/os-beth-kassab-trayvon-martin-anniversary-20130222/10

  11. mung says:

    Anyone know where the police report/statements are that show George had grass stains on his back. Some troll is trying to say that the media misreported it and read the report wrong.

    You do have to love that even the family admits to Trayvon beating George, but some trolls still think George fell before he even knew Trayvon existed.

  12. mung says:

    Guys we might as well just pack it in. Apparently there is a smoking gun we didn’t know about. Well you guys might have and I might just be slow. So in this photo http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fb57eed/turbine/os-pictures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-sh-022/500/500×332 the front of George’s boots are wet and have some grass on them while the backs are clean and dry” The only conclusion must be that George was actually the one on top. This is “expertly” described on http://bcclist.com/2012/05/14/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-court-proceedings-and-trial/

    So that is it, we have to concede that George was on top based on this. I mean it couldn’t be that the wet and grass were on the front because of George walking through the grass right? And the fact that an officer of the law saw the back of George’s shirt wet and grass on it, well that probably flew up from the front of the shoes right? The reason that the backs of the boots weren’t wet couldn’t be because his jeans were covering most of them right?

    Guys if we ignore all of the other evidence and the 100 other ways the fronts of the boots can be wet, the only conclusion is that George was on top.

  13. CCG says:

    Has anything been released on TM’s pants? If I recall correctly…nothing…nada…zero…zip. Where is the report on the pants?

    • mung says:

      I believe there was a large amount of urine released on TM’s pants when he realized the cracka he was putting bangz on just put a bang on him.

      Sorry couldn’t resist.

      But are you asking about the difference in the reports of the pants? I think that it probably just mistakes. Until we see clear photos it is tough to really say it is something of concern. Also I don’t know how it really changes anything. It is great for us to say that he went home and changed pants, but in the end would it matter? The only thing that his actions on the walk home help with is timeline of events. Now if it were to come out that he had some altercation with someone else that might help with motive for why he punched George. I think the reasonable answer for motive was that he didn’t like someone checking him out. I don’t think it needs any help, it stands just fine on it’s own.

      • CCG says:

        Actually I would like to see if TM’s pants showed dirt or grass stains on the knees or elsewhere. I’ve seen reports on TM’s shirt and hoodie, indicating stains etc., but don’t recall seeing anything on his pants or sneakers.

        • mung says:

          Ahh, good point. I don’t think I have seen anything about that either. Using the logic of the Trayvonites, we can say that since there is no evidence of stains on Trayvon’s back, he had to have been on top.

      • boricuafudd says:

        If the black and white picture released of GZ is any indication, I am curious if the same was done with all the pictures, and if the defense have clear pictures not those grainy hard to make anything out pictures.

  14. brutalhonesty says:

    Bias anyone?
    “unforgivably taken from us.”
    “When he actually goes on trial for the murder of Trayvon, ”
    ” irrationality of Florida’s Stand Your Ground law”
    uhhh NOPE “As others have noted, MyBrownBaby was one of the first media sources in the country to note the larger implications of Trayvon’s murder. We helped to put the story on the front pages.” never head of you till today…..

    lmfao “make sure that other parents saw their own children when they saw Trayvon”

    but we are the racists picking sides due to race?”For black parents, Trayvon never leaves us. ”

    “what can happen to our black male child when he leaves the house.”

    lmfao “Trayvon’s name doesn’t have to be in the headlines to occupy a permanent place in my mind. His kind, sweet face will always stare back at me inside that gray hoodie.” uhh you mean the photoshopped pic of him the movement uses????

    and the kicker “Trayvon’s name will stand for innocence stolen” wowzers they are drinking too much tea

    • jello333 says:

      Some of those people are mentally unstable. I’m not saying that as a joke… I believe it’s actually true. If a psychiatrist/therapist were to study them closely, they’d find serious problems. I have little doubt about that.

  15. dmoseylou says:

    Just the headline on this article made me giggle, so of course I had to read it. Promoting racism, er, ah, civil rights is a lucrative endeavor.

    “Sharpton: Hardest Working Man In Show Business?
    TV host takes hefty salary from his civil rights group”

  16. CCG says:

    Dozens arrested after fight outside Ford City Mall


    Just some “cheerful” teens having some fun on a Sunday evening.

  17. eastern2western says:

    could zimmerman also sue the crump and associates for defamation once he is aquitted? If he were aquitted, then is there any possibility that the martins will win a civil suit? Zimmerman’s aquittal basicaly convicts martin as the responsible party, then how could the martin family even win a wrongful death suit when his son is the responsible party who initiated the conflict? john galt, come on, give me your two cents in here.

    • Bernie Goetz, New York City, the “Subway Vigilante.” Convicted of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree – carrying a loaded, unlicensed weapon in a public place.


      Civil verdict, $43 million.

      Amount paid to date, $0.00

      Under “Stand your ground,” if you get off in the immunity hearing or are not charged, there is no civil lawsuit considered. Crump and scheme team repeatably said “All we want is an arrest, to get to first base.” If the Zimmerman case goes to trial June 10, Zimmerman will still be liable for civil damages, unless he moves to Isle of Mann, Sicily, or some other foreign area.

    • John Galt says:

      Acquittal in a criminal proceeding (w/o grant of 776.032 immunity) does not foreclose potential subsequent civil liability of the defendant because of (1) different standards of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt vs preponderance of the evidence) and (2) potentially different factual elements to establish crime versus tort. Example: OJ Simpson. Moreover, there are possible non-Zimmerman parties that might be targeted.

      “could zimmerman also sue the crump and associates for defamation once he is aquitted?”

      Crump might possibly assert litigation privilege. Dunno if a Florida Court would allow that to shelter his statements to the media. A couple of cases generally discussing litigation privilege.



      • mung says:

        At this point I don’t even think there is a preponderance of evidence.

      • eastern2western says:

        with the current available information, is there sufficient evidence for crump to even win a civil suit. Basically, it is dd against the whole investivative report of the sanford pd and how could that even be sufficient for a civil suit. even dd’s testimony is full with fraud.

    • jello333 says:

      Any money that changes hands in civil suits is gonna be coming IN to George. Beasley wouldn’t have gotten involved if this weren’t true. By the time this is over, the LAST thing on Crump or Sybrina/Tracy’s minds will be trying to sue George. Nope.

  18. LetJusticePrevail says:

    HUH. I just noticed that the link for the case detail report no longer works. Is anyone else having this problem?

  19. Lou says:

    sometimes I think there should be a re-enactment in court to get George to produce those screams. I guarantee you though even with a thorough beatdown, it would be hard to reproduce those injuries.

    • Lou says:

      I don’t really wish for that, but these Trayvonites would understand how fragile the back of the head is, and how hard you must pummel someone to get those injuries.

      • Lou says:

        yeah, and tonight I read that Sybrina is going to advertise how her baby was just an innocent victim. makes me sick.

        • Lou says:

          Joseph Weber • 13 hours ago
          Zimmerman a “white hispanic”? His father is Jewish and his mother is Afro-Peruvian. How exactly is that a “white hispanic” anymore than a “black hispanic”?

          409 up 4 down
          Josh Perrella >Joseph Weber • 9 hours ago
          Yeah I noticed that too. Seems like they want to keep the black vs. white thing going. Seriously, this story has run its course to a disgusting end and the media should be ashamed of themselves. This is a terrible happening and both parties have suffered. The guy defended himself and the kid attacked him. The fact that he had a gun and used it was his right and he was protected by the laws of that state. This is racial sensationalism at best.

          404up 4 down

        • John Galt says:

          “That was the day two strangers — Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager walking back with Skittles and an iced tea he’d picked up at 7-Eleven, and George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Florida — met for the first and only time.”

          One year later and WMFJC is still “iced tea” and a mixed race octoroon who would not have been allowed to vote before the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870 is still a “white Hispanic”.

          “Martin attacked him, then they tussled, he said. At one point, the teenager forced Zimmerman to the ground — his head hitting the pavement — and he cried out for help.”

          No, Z’s statement is that Martin punched him, breaking his nose, then pushed him to the ground, then mounted and began to punch him and beat his head against the sidewalk while Z continuously yelled for help for at least 40 seconds before shooting Martin. Why the “tussled” and “at one point” and “his head hitting the pavement” nonsense? Did Z say his head accidentally hit the sidewalk? NO. According to Z’s statement, it was a brutal and protracted assault initiated by a sucker punch and during which Trayvon intentionally beat Z’s head against the sidewalk.

          Sorry, I can’t stand to read any more of CNN’s nonsense.

    • ftsk420 says:

      It would be hard to recreate the screams. Unless he is in fear of his life the screams probably wont match up.

      • Lou says:

        true. the back of the head is the most sensitive parts of the body. George is lucky he didn’t have have brain injury. he might even have brain injury though, and doesn’t even know it.

      • justfactsplz says:

        The yells were high pitched under that fear but I could still tell beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was George’s voice yelling.

        • ftsk420 says:

          I never met George and I could tell it was him screaming.

          • justfactsplz says:

            I still have problems listening to that tape. I have a huge problem that nobody came to his aide.

            • ftsk420 says:

              I have a problem with it too but I also understand why

              • justfactsplz says:

                I know people were afraid they might get physically hurt but even shining flash lights on them might have helped or someone could have said they were going to go get their gun and that might have scared Trayvon.

                • ftsk420 says:

                  I really don’t think anything other then a bullet was gonna stop Trayvon that night. I think he was in a rage and didn’t know anything was going on around him that night.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I agree. I think he was either in a drug rage or withdrawal rage.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    Could be just rage. He had reason to be mad and I know many people including myself who blackout in fights and don’t know whats going on around you can’t hear anything. I have been in fights where I don’t remember the fight at all none of it.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Could be right. I doubt very much I would have tried to grab him, but I like to think I would have at least tried to KICK him off or something. Of course I wasn’t there, so there’s no way to know for sure what I would have done. You know what gets me is that even Austin (before his mom coerced him to change, of course) said he saw a guy crying for help, and he was actually thinking about going over to try to help. That still gets to me.

                • Macready says:

                  If anyone was in a perfect position to save George, it was John.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Yes, he was. I guess he was just too afraid.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I wonder how he feels about that now? Just walking toward them and hollering might have stopped it.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I would imagine that he and others have guilt about that night.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Lots of guilt everywhere, but I do not notice any with Trayvon’s parents for their total neglect. I no longer have any compassion for them. They now believe their own lies and that will not change.. except for the worse.

                  • jello333 says:

                    At least John tried SOMETHING, which is more than I can say for any of the rest of them. I’m sure he wishes he had done more, but really putting your life (potentially) on the line for someone you don’t know isn’t such a natural, instinctive thing to do. I like to think I would have at least run over and tried to kick Travyon off of George, but who knows. So anyway, I don’t wanna badmouth John, and from listening to his statements, he seems like a decent, honest guy. Oh, I should mention that there WAS one other person who at least thought about trying to help. That is Austin, of all people! A KID! In his first statement (before his Mom got to him) he said something like, “I saw someone on the ground yelling for help, and so I was gonna go over and see if I could help him, but then my dog got off the leash.” Wow.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Out of the mouth of Babes. I do think John is a good guy. His testimony helps George immensely..

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Out of the mouths of babes. I do think John is a good guy. His testimony helps Geoge immensely,

            • jello333 says:

              Yep. My wife doesn’t follow this nearly as close as I do. But she doesn’t like listening to that tape; nearly tears up. Her main reason is just that… “How could people hear him crying for help and do NOTHING?”

          • mung says:

            Well it was either him or the cockatoo, but there ain’t no way it was Trayvon. I am a solid choir bass and Sabrina’s voice is lower than mine as is Tracey’s, why on earth would their son sound like Mike Tyson or Michael Jackson?

            • ftsk420 says:

              My voice sounds the same as my father and my sons voice sounds the same as mine.

              • mung says:

                Mine is very similar to my father and identical to my brother. In fact before the days of cell phones, I would call my brother’s house and if he wasn’t there she would think I was him. His own wife couldn’t tell the difference in our voices. But somehow Trayvon was a 6′ tall soprano. While his father is a bass.

                • rumpole2 says:

                  You are forgetting the GZ was a Paedophile…. that’s why he went after little Tray… probably grabbed him by the goolies… no wonder TM he had a high pitched wail!

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    Oh yeah forgot about that but George liked to keep it in the family so I doubt he was after Trayvon goodies. I could barley keep a straight face while posting that.

                • ftsk420 says:

                  I personally don’t think those screams will be allowed in. With no way to prove who it really is I seriously doubt the prosecution will try and use it and I think they will try and stop the defense from using it. But at the end of the day that’s just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

                  • ejarra says:

                    Ok, if what you say is true, then they can’t allow any of the pre-shooting 911 calls either. IDK, I think they have too, but not say who is screaming. Again, a jury determination.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    Ok I can see that but how would one side or the other persuade the jury. Trayvon isn’t around to speak and it seems there is no audio out there for him. I seriously doubt George will take the stand. I just don’t see it being used but I’m no lawyer.

                  • ejarra says:

                    Going with the idea that the jury is not filled with idiots, we have Georgie’s voice on the NEN call, so we don’t need him to speak and Tracy will be taking the stand with his VERY LOW bass of a voice. I think you get the picture.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I get the picture but that’s on the idea the jury isn’t filled with idiots. Do you really think Tracy will take the stand I think that would be dangerous if he did.

                  • ejarra says:

                    Depending on what his answers are in the depo, MOM/West may just cal him upl. If nothing more than for the jury to hear his voice.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I would hope if he took the stand West would tear him apart. Tracy could single handedly destroy the states case in my opinion anyway.

                • jello333 says:


            • ftsk420 says:

              The interview he did with Hanity I think it was is what proved to me it was him screaming. When he spoke I closed my eyes and just listened and you could easily tell it was him screaming. Then when I saw Alicia on DR.Phil I could tell by looking at her that she didn’t believe it was Trayvon screaming.

              • mung says:

                If Trayvon was screaming for help, it was only to get one of his buddies to help him beat George down. Maybe he was listening to the Beatles in his head set when he was supposed to be talking to DeeDee and had a song stuck in his head, yep that’s it he was singing Help while he was in the middle of his assault.

                Most Trayvonites fail to comprehend that the whole reason for saying it was him yelling for help was to foster the story that George was chasing him and holding him at gun point. Once the evidence came out that Trayvon had assaulted George, the Trayvon yelling for help theory kind of fizzled on the prosecutions side.

                • ftsk420 says:

                  That’s a big piece of evidence I mean if you can prove it’s Trayvon screaming you can prove he was in fear of his life. The screams aren’t fake they sound like someone who thinks they are about to die.

                  • Lou says:

                    well, unless someone thought George was punching Trayvon with his nose and bruised his knuckles.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Rather than try to introduce the screams into evidence, the prosecution will do everything in their power to keep them out. Just like they’ll do everything in their power to keep all of the Dee Dee stuff out. Same goes for the phone stuff.

                    Heh… what’s all that tell you? You know, that’s really all we need to get through the stupid media’s head. Just that first paragraph. Here it is again:

                    Rather than try to introduce the screams into evidence, the prosecution will do everything in their power to keep them out. Just like they’ll do everything in their power to keep all of the Dee Dee stuff out. Same goes for the phone stuff.

        • Flaladybug says:

          JFP…I started following this case as soon as Sharpton and Jackson became involved. I followed the Martin Lee Anderson case because I knew some of the LE involved and saw how that FIASCO played out by the same hustlers involved in George’s case. In the beginning, I bought what the MSM was putting out there, but quickly began to realize there was more to this story…ALOT MORE!!
          My AHAH moment came when I listened to the 7-11 tape with audio that was available in the beginning and heard TM answer his phone…..his voice was VERY DEEP…not the voice of A LITTLE BOY that the Scheme Team tried to portray!! Then I heard George’s voice and I just knew….it was George who had the higher pitched voice….it was George who had more of a child like voice….it was GEORGE who screamed for help….all the following facts have just confirmed my belief….GEORGE IS INNOCENT!!!

          • justfactsplz says:

            He is innocent. He and Shellie are sweet nice people. They are not evil people. This is terrible, this railroading with no relief in sight.

  20. brutalhonesty says:

    anyone see this?
    SANFORD, Fla. -

    Witnesses say a shooting at a Sanford apartment complex that led to one man being arrested and the other critically injured, could have started from a racial comment.

    Police said Corey Michael Rose, 30, was in an altercation with Brandon Long at the Cedar Creek Apartments around 5 p.m. Monday.

    Witnesses said Long, who is African-American, according to police reports, called Rose, who is white, a racial slur before hitting Rose in the face with his .40 caliber Glock.

    “He came from behind the guy and pistol-whipped him and the man was bloody,” said witness Browdy Smith.

    Police said Long pointed the gun at Rose. Rose pulled out a gun from his pants and the two hid behind cars. Rose then sought out Long and shot him multiple times, according to the police report.

    Long was airlifted to Orlando Regional Medical Center with multiple gunshot wounds.

    Rose has been charged with attempted first degree murder, criminal attempt to solicit conspire and carrying a concealed weapon.

    The altercation comes on the heels of the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed when Zimmerman shot Martin, claiming he was attacked and it was in self-defense.

    Witnesses said from what they saw, Rose acting in self-defense.

    “I hate to see him go to jail, because that was self defense,” Smith said.

    But Sanford Police Sgt. Dave Morgenstern said the chain of events doesn’t exactly point to a self-defense claim.

    “It’s not really self defense whenever you go chase the person down who’s hiding behind a car, you go around the car and fire more shots at the person, that’s not self defense,” Morgenstern said.

    It’s not clear what Long’s condition is. Rose was arrested and charged with attempted first degree murder, criminal attempt to solicit conspire and carrying a concealed weapon.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      Sun-Times Media Wire

      Maywood, Ill. – Alton L. Hayes III, a west suburban man charged with a hate crime, told police he was so upset about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida that he beat up a white man early Tuesday.Hayes and a 15-year-old Chicago boy walked up behind the 19-year-old man victim and pinned his arms to his side, police said. Hayes, 18, then picked up a large tree branch, pointed it at the man and said, “Empty your pockets, white boy.”

      The two allegedly rifled through the victim’s pockets, then threw him to the ground and punched him “numerous times” in the head and back before running away, police said. Hayes and the boy are black; the victim is white.

      After being arrested, Hayes told police he was upset by the Trayvon Martin case and beat the man up because he was white, Cook County State’s Attorney’s office spokeswoman Tandra Simonton said, citing court records.

      Martin, 17, was fatally shot Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who was charged April 11 with second-degree murder. Zimmerman is Hispanic, while Martin was black.

      Hayes, 18 of the 1200 block of North Woodbine Avenue in Oak Park, was charged with attempted robbery, aggravated battery and a hate crime, all felonies, Oak Park police Detective Cmdr. Ladon Reynolds said.

      Hayes was ordered held on $80,000 bond and remained in the Cook County Jail on Friday. He will next appear in court May 11. The boy was referred to juvenile court.

      • tara says:

        FWIW … I’m pretty sure Hayes was from Maywood and the victim was from Oak Park. Oak Park is a very nice suburb. Maywood on the other hand is a pit, 74% black with an average home price nearly 1/10th that of Oak Park. Oak Park is heavily policed but sometimes the wild animals enter.

    • John Galt says:

      “Investigators said Long called Rose a racial slur and pistol-whipped him, breaking the gun.”

      He tried to use a plastic Glock as a club. That’s about as smart as bringing Skittles to a gun fight.

  21. partyof0 says:

    I’m sure I’m late on this topic, but I say forget about Crump now…STAY focused on the ping logs as Waltherppk has reiterated countless times throughout this site. The one thing I’m afraid of is THIS Judge saying about the missing phone data is “well, if there is NO phone data, there’s nothing to prove witness #8 was NOT on the phone…we’ll just have to take her sworn deposition as fact…NO need for cross examination”. Blast it…use the defense money for a phone expert…10 phone experts AND this case IS over. THEN go after Crump…if they can….with him ”being some sort of council for the state”
    I do have to ask this question though…hopefully Waltherppk can answer it…Can ping logs be counterfeited? I do remember some form of a (kind of) phone data record that Crump was exhibiting to the Media (as proof there was a phone call at the time of the run-in)…it had to be on this site that I saw it…looked like a bad cut-n-paste job though. And if this case goes as high up as some think it does….somebody might get all the fake ping logs they want…with name, times, locations and anything else they want. W-ppk…tell me thats impossible…that there are safeguards.

    • mung says:

      If they obtain the information directly from the provider, they should be accurate. Is is possible that they could have been tampered with, sure, but not likely.

    • boricuafudd says:

      What you are describing is exactly what is wrong with this case. Instead of the burden of proof being on the prosecution, it has been the defense who is being burdened with proving the prosecutions evidence.

      The prosecution is the one that has to prove that DD was on the phone when she says she did.
      The prosecution is the one that has to prove is factual.
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that GZ, was the initial aggressor.
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that TM was not acting suspiciously
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that GZ was acting either maliciously
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that GZ was acting with reckless disregard
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that GZ’s story is false
      The prosecution is the one that must prove that GZ is lying

      And the prosecution must do this beyond reasonable doubt. Somehow, this fact has been turned around to where is GZ that must prove his innocence.

      • howie says:

        That is affirmative defense. The burden goes from the state to the defendant. In justifiable homicide. If charged after investigation. Key…if charged.

        • boricuafudd says:

          I understand, is that GZ does not need to prove beyond reasonable he is innocent, but by preponderance of the evidence.

          • Chip Bennett says:

            I understand, is that GZ does not need to prove beyond reasonable he is innocent, but by preponderance of the evidence.

            For an immunity hearing, it is true that the defendant must prove self defense with a preponderance of evidence.

            For a trial, he needs only prove reasonable doubt.

        • raiikun says:

          Nope, in Florida it’s still the burden of the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Defendant did not act in self defense. There’s lots of precedent and case law for this, and it’s in the jury instructions.

          The jury instructions say (paraphrased) that if there’s any reasonable doubt as to if the homicide is justified the defendant should be found not guilty, then if there’s no reasonable doubt he should be found guilty if the elements of the crime are proven.

          So, the State must negate the affirmative defense beyond a a reasonable doubt before the jury can really even move on to consider if the elements of the crime are met.

          • boricuafudd says:

            Thanks R,
            I think I was confusing it with the Immunity Hearing.

          • jello333 says:

            Exactly. I posted something about that the other night. And as you say, there’s plenty of case law to support it. All George needs to do is put forth a reasonable scenario of self-defense. Once he does that, the burden is on the State to try to disprove that scenario, showing that it is false “beyond a reasonable doubt”. And if the State CAN’T do that? Well, then it doesn’t even go to the jury. As the precedent cases state, the judge MUST rule in the defendant’s favor… the jury never gets involved.

            I hope the JQers, Leatherheads, and Dog Pound reads that and realizes just how sad and weak their hopes of a conviction really are.

  22. mung says:

    Just a question. Has anyone ever been able to have a real dialog with a Trayvonite? You know one where they give a complete version of the events that actually come close to lining up with the evidence and are able to talk about the reason for their version with any intelligence?

    I have been challenging them to do that, but all I get in return is cherry picking facts and turning them into their twisted version of a smoking gun, then stupid one line attempts at insults when you present the facts that disprove their theories.

    • jay says:

      Shoot away!!!! Im very objective… I think there are some strong points on this site an I would love to give you my opinion of what the discovery reveals to me..

      • JB from SoCal says:

        Man, it’s been real windy the last couple of days here in SoCal. It’s the good ol’ hot-blasting, dry Santana winds coming in from the desert. When I used to live more inland, they’d hit 70 mph some days and last for 3 or 4 days on end. A little milder this time around.

      • mung says:

        Then please give us a cohesive version of the events that proves murder 2. Full events from the time Trayvon left 7-11 until the police show up.

  23. mung says:

    Wooo HOOOOO! Just got an update on my CWP and it has been issued, now I just need to wait for it to be printed and mailed. They got the paperwork ~Jan 18th so not as long of a wait as some people have had.

  24. arkansasmimi says:

    Jeff Weiner‏@JeffWeinerOS 22 min ago
    #TrayvonMartin’s parents will appear with @attorneycrump, @CNN says. @piersmorgan will interview, will air live. Anniversary is tomorrow.

    • ftsk420 says:

      Would be something if Piers grew some balls and put Crump and the parents in the hot seat but we all know that won’t happen.

    • They’re on a PR kick because of the anniversary. From today’s Washington Post:

      “The case Fulton and attorney Crump are presenting to the world calls for Zimmerman to be held accountable for the death of her son. That he is facing trial is a victory all by itself considering he was sent home without being charged hours after killing Trayvon. Police and the city manager would cite Florida’s insane “stand your ground” law’s immunity from prosecution provision for releasing Zimmerman. He turned himself in 59 days later and was charged with second-degree murder by state prosecutors on April 11.

      “[T]hat was sad that they had a young man, a teenager that was on the ground dead and the person who shot him and killed him admitted it and still went home to his bed,” Fulton said. “ I think it was more disgusting for me to know that he wasn’t arrested….Right now, I feel we are on the right track. We have the arrest. Now we need to have the criminal trial and hopefully somebody is [held] accountable for what they’ve done.”

      • RockyMtnMama says:

        “Now we need to have the criminal trial and hopefully somebody is [held] accountable for what they’ve done.” — And the tragic part is that Trayvon was held accountable for what he did. Unfortunately, it ended in his death.

        • boricuafudd says:

          Wow, would it not be nice if she accepted some responsibility for her son’s actions. Wishful thinking, he was held accountable, will she ever be?

          • RockyMtnMama says:

            I blame Sybrina less than Tracy. I’m not sure that Trayvon even saw much of her. Tracy seemed to be the only constant parental figure in his life, and what a figure: married to one woman while shacking up with another + five children by five different women + a job where he was gone a lot. Eh. How could he possibly have devoted enough time to Trayvon?

            • boricuafudd says:

              Tracy does bear some responsibility as well, specially considering the circumstances surrounding his trip to Sanford. I often wondered if Sybrina knew that TM will left to fetch for himself the whole time he was in Sanford. Did it even mattered to her? Tracy certainly was not worried?

      • CCG says:


        Candlelight Vigil in New York to Mark the Anniversary of the Death of Trayvon Martin.

        February 26, 2013 will mark the one year anniversary of the death of Trayvon Martin.

        Please join Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin and their Attorneys Benjamin Crump and Daryl Parks for a candlelight vigil in Union Square.

        6 PM – Gather in Union Square (South Plaza)
        7:17 PM – Moment of Silence

        Show your support using the hashtag #millionhoodies

        Text JusticeTM to 50555 to donate $10.00 to The Miami Foundation for the benefit of the Trayvon Martin Foundation.

        Organized in partnership with JusticeTM.org and GlobalGrind.com

        In the beginning I had sympathy for Sybrina & Tracy. I thought they were not fully aware of their son’s lifestyle and somehow believed the narrative being sold. As time went on, I realized not so. I would have thought by now, with all the evidence that has come out, they would have quietly gone out of sight.

        It’s so sad they are still given all the sympathy and George is still being villianized.

    • jello333 says:

      If I was a “grieving parent”, I would NOT allow my attorney (assuming I had one) to appear with me when I was interviewed. I just find that totally sick that they feel the need to have Crump with them. But of course they DO need him. I’m not saying they don’t… The FACT that they need him tells you everything.

  25. jordan2222 says:

    Anyone know what station has the show tonight featuring letters to George and when?

    • CCG says:

      Want to see what the public has written to George Zimmerman?
      “Erin Burnett OutFront” looks at the comments in a report at 7 p.m. Monday on CNN. The show repeats at 11 p.m.

      Wouldn’t be surprised if only the nasty letters are read with very few letters of support.

      • JB from SoCal says:

        I’m going to guess that the only available letters to George would be those given by the Zimmerman family to CNN, and that would be from people sending George money — at least I hope that’s the case, but I could just as easily be wrong about the source.
        If they are letters (and money) supporting good ol’ GZ, then that would probably help with fundraising. [fingers crossed]

        • I recorded the “Erin Burnett ” show and watched it.

          They said they had an “exclusive and unrestricted look at the letters” “We looked for trends and immediately there were some surprises.” Few letters accused him of racism or profiling. “The one thing Zimmerman critics mention most is Trayvon Martin’s age.” “There were very few people mentioning gun rights or the right to carry a concealed weapon.”

          Erin still got some things wrong: iced tea and Skittles, part time volunteer security person carrying a gun.

          George has not seen many of the negative letters. There were some really ugly threateing ones.

          • JB from SoCal says:

            Though I was off-base in my expectations, I was initially just as surprised as Erin Burnett and staff were about the written responses.
            But on more reflection, his age shouldn’t have been such a shock. The reports we are constantly receiving here at CTH everyday are more of the same: violent black teen thugs under the age of 18 committing mayhem mostly on other blacks, but increasingly on white targets as well.
            The letter-writers will be made to realize that someone just like this “chile armed only with candy” is coming to a neighborhood near them, and very soon . . .

            • I wish I was a better reporter. One thing I do remember was about the comment on the age, the reporter remarked that it may have had something to do with the publicity and the childish pictures that were used in the beginning. I have to admit that is what grabbed me, along with his mother’s tears. But, as soon as Crump opened his mouth I knew something was up.

          • jordan2222 says:

            Is it available on line?

  26. mung says:

    So I hadn’t heard this troll story before, but apparently there are some Trayvonites that say you can hear George say on the NEN call that his keys are in his truck, so he went back to the truck to get them at some point and that proves something bad.

    Now the same troll that is insisting this fact is the same one who claims I was wrong when I said that there was a police report that said there were grass stains on George’s shirt because the report said his shirt was wet and had grass on it and that isn’t a stain. Some people are really mental.

  27. brutalhonesty says:

    look at this crap (interesting they have 5 reasons and cnn had 5 things)…so many blatant lies and outright fabrications….when will omara enter jftm into evidence, after all they are talking about the treehouse)
    Keep On Pushing: 5 Reasons We Can’t Forget Trayvon Martin (PHOTOS)
    Posted 18 hours 38 min ago by Christina Coleman for Global Grind Staff

    This week marks a year since Trayvon Martin, the Florida teen who was walking home in his gated community, was shot and killed by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman for being “suspicious.”

    When news of his untimely death hit news waves, the media covered the murder extensively. Communities gathered with candles and prayers, donning hoodies to represent the slain student. George Zimmerman’s face was plastered all over our television sets. We cried. We cared. We were ready to fight.

    But then Trayvon’s name disappeared from CNN, Fox and MSNBC. George Zimmerman’s hearings only appeared on local Florida news. Both of their names receded from headlines and got lost among the other deaths. Aurora. Jordan Davis. Newtown.

    But what about Trayvon?
    A Google report revealed that the interest of the George Zimmerman case/Trayvon Martin death went from full throttle to literally zero.

    Did we forget just 11 months ago that we were trumping an important cause? Where was the tenacity that we possessed while screaming Trayvon’s name and protesting to get the “Stand Your Law” ground repealed?

    As the one year anniversary of Trayvon’s death rolls around, just two weeks after he was to turn 18, we must remember what we were fighting for. Believe it or not, it wasn’t just for the slain teen. We were fighting for justice for not just Trayvon, but for an entire nation. Here’s why…

    Stand Your Ground Law:
    Even if George Zimmerman is convicted of murder and spends time behind bars, we will still have to grapple with the fact that Florida’s controversial and deadly “Stand Your Ground” law has yet to be repealed. The legislation states that if an individual feels threatened, they can shoot first. Even before Trayvon’s death, the law resulted in self-defense claims tripling in Florida, which made it difficult to prosecute cases against people who shoot others. Trayvon is not the first innocent and unwarranted death by this law, (Zimmerman’s defense is using the law in the June trial), and he won’t be the last. If we fight for Trayvon, we have to continue to fight for this law. Justice for Trayvon isn’t about putting Zimmerman behind bars…it’s making sure this doesn’t happen again.

    Jordan Davis:
    If we forget Trayvon, we forget Jordan Davis. Davis was the other 17-year-old Florida teen who was shot and killed by Michael Dunn for allegedly playing his music too loud. The similarities are eerie. Michael Dunn, the 46-year-old gunman, also called upon the Stand Your Ground Law. Both teens were 17. Both were black. Both were shot by men who are allegedly racists. If we forget Trayvon, we forget all little black boys who are senselessly shot because their skin presents a threat. If we forget Trayvon, the fight for Davis, kids on street corners in Chicago, there or anywhere, are trivialized.

    Gun Control:
    If we forget Trayvon Martin, we forget who killed him. But most importantly, we forget what killed him. George Zimmerman was a man who legally owned a gun. He was licensed to carry a firearm. It was not obtained illegally on a street corner or stolen from someone unsuspecting. What killed Trayvon was the system that is set up in America that makes it easy for someone with a vendetta, prejudice, or mental incapacity to use irresponsibly. And we have to change that.

    If we are to examine not who killed Trayvon, but what killed Trayvon, we have to look at the myriad of historical incidents in America that got us here today. Why was Zimmerman “scared” of a teen boy walking home with a packet of Skittles in his hand? What made Zimmerman label him a thug and a punk? Why was he suspicious? Trayvon was black, and holding that card is still the deadliest thing in America. If we forget Trayvon, we forget why he was targeted. We forget why he died. We forget that the post-racial world the media tries to convince us we live in is false. We remain blind to the violent and hateful climate of this nation. Arguably, Trayvon was killed because of his skin. And so are hundreds of little black boys in America. Black boys 15 to 19 years old are 28 times more likely than White boys the same age to be killed in a gun homicide. If we forget Trayvon’s cause, we forget our children. We forget to secure our future.

    George Zimmerman:
    It’s just this simple. If we do not continue to push for justice, the momentum behind George Zimmerman’s June trial will dissipate. Who will be watching? Who will bear witness? And though we cannot determine the outcome of the trial, we have to let Zimmerman know that we haven’t forgotten. We are still Trayvon. We are still pushing. And he will still have to pay. One way or another.

    Trayvon Martin, we will never forget.

    • CCG says:

      “And though we cannot determine the outcome of the trial, we have to let Zimmerman know that we haven’t forgotten. We are still Trayvon. We are still pushing. And he will still have to pay. One way or another.”

      If this is not an open threat or call for violence, than what is it??? This is journalism???

      • brutalhonesty says:


      • maggiemoowho says:

        I just read that paragraph to my hubby and we said the same thing. That is an open threat against George Zimmerman.

      • Sharon says:

        Of course it’s an open threat. And that has been their message all along. And the BGI has enabled them. This is what they do. This is who they are. They have not been opposed or stopped.

        Just like obama is not being stopped. Today at the governor’s conference as he prepared to take questions from the governors, he cleared the room of the press first. He said, “We’ll take questions now–so if we can just clear the press out….” (doing that from memory–but that is what he said…..)

        • libby says:

          The part that I find quite interesting/annoying is how these open threats are supposed to be treated as something we shouldnt mind or question (cuz black racism is the good kind of hate according to the lame stream media)

          • Sharon says:

            I agree with you completely, and believe that part of our next steps is–always–to be saying out loud exactly that.

            Nearly always someone who hears us will indicate, “Hmmmm…I sure have wondered about that….”

            I’m realizing more and more that we need to get to saying it out loud. All of it. I grew up in a culture where it was not nice to disagree or raise your voice,

            I’m trying to practice saying, clearly and usefully, what I think–before I’m ready to break things.

      • woohoowee says:

        “This is journalism???”

        Commie agitprop.

      • John Galt says:

        What do you expect from a Chris Dorner fan?

      • tara says:

        I agree. Total threat. Not even veiled. I wonder how much time I’d get for making that kind of statement about Crumpsty the Clown.

    • boricuafudd says:

      It is something or someones else’s fault. The gun, the racist, the laws anything but themselves. That a young black male is 90% more likely to be assaulted by another young black male is not their fault. Everybody, but them.

      • libby says:

        “Black boys 15 to 19 years old are 28 times more likely than White boys the same age to be killed in a gun homicide. ”
        YUP, and most of those are killed by fellow blacks while they are busy hating on whitey

    • jello333 says:

      “little black boy”… oh my God

      Oh hey, idiot, you had a question: “Did we forget just 11 months ago that we were trumping an important cause? Where was the tenacity that we possessed while screaming Trayvon’s name?”

      The reason not many people are any longer paying any attention to your IDIOTIC, HYPOCRITICAL, RACIST LIES is because they’ve started to realize they are, umm… IDIOTIC, HYPOCRITICAL, RACIST LIES!

      Does that help with your confusion? You’re welcome…

      • boricuafudd says:

        This line was particularly rich,
        “If we forget Trayvon, the fight for Davis, kids on street corners in Chicago, there or anywhere, are trivialized.”

        It is reporters like you who have trivialized the murders in Chicago, by ignoring them, by blaming anyone but themselves, by glorying violence and then wondering why it happens. By calling anyone who is not of the right anyone who is not of the right color, creed, political leaning, a racist for trying to do something about it. By traveling hundreds of miles to glorify one dead teenager, when there are dozens, right in your backyard, killed by people that look, talk, dress as you do. It is you who trivializes the black teens who are dying, the rest of us are horrified by it.

    • jello333 says:

      I don’t wanna use my Facebook account to post a comment on that stupid site, so if anyone here wants to do it, maybe you can post the following (and if you post, please let us know here):

      Dear Christina Coleman and Global Grind. I hope you all have good lawyers. And not just for the lies and libel you have spread, including in this article. You have now taken it to a new level. Oh, you don’t know what I’m talking about? Here ya go:

      “And though we cannot determine the outcome of the trial, we have to let Zimmerman know that we haven’t forgotten. We are still Trayvon. We are still pushing. And he will still have to pay. One way or another.”

      If you’re real lucky maybe you’ll just be looking at civil suits. But you may also have just put yourself in line for some criminal problems. Good luck.

  28. Flaladybug says:

    RMM….I have read some of the responses on those sites and I must tell you….you have MUCH PATIENCE AND TENACITY!! I gave up responding to the absurdity….just too exhausting…but you hang with them and shoot them down at every turn! BRAVO!!! They have brought a whole new level of ignorance to light….KEEP UP THE FIGHT WOLVERINE!!! ;)

  29. Flaladybug says:

    MUNG….The above post applies to you as well…..YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!

  30. david says:

    ROFLMAO – Crump says he’s an officer of the court and goes on to say this investigation was messed up because they presumed Zimmerman innocent. The interviewer asks? Isn’t that the law?


    • boricuafudd says:

      How about this.
      “CRUMP: Not much has changed in my opinion. I am an officer of the court, Ms. Martin, and every day we see young minority boys, little black and brown boys, charged and convicted with no evidence at all.”

      Correct me if I am wrong, is this not the same thing you want done to GZ.

      • John Galt says:

        “every day we see young minority boys, little black and brown boys, charged and convicted with no evidence at all”

        Every day Mr. Crump? Holy cow, I’m gonna win a Pulitzer. OK Mr. Crump, the recorder is running, please start listing specific cases.

      • Lou says:

        thumbs up on that Boricua

  31. cassandra says:

    I have been busy dispelling myths about the Zimmerman case on various websites today and responding to a nasty email from Jonathan Capehart. Thinking about what I have learned and experienced in the last decade about race and violent crime jarred my memory about a Oakland incident in which an adult, Patrick, shot a teenager in self defense. OPD backed up Patrick and the DA did not charge, the teenager was hit in the shoulder with one bullet. There are many similarities to politics driving the Martin case. If the kid had died I suspect all hell would have broken out in Oakland. Patrick is an acquittance, and very decent fellow.

    Patrick McCullough, Oakland’s Bernhard Goetz
    Posted on July 17, 2008

    …..Locking the security gate that protected our front door, I noticed a dozen or so young people walking on the sidewalk bordering my house, headed in the direction of Shattuck Avenue. As I stepped into my driveway and began to unlock my car door, one of them shouted, “There’s the snitch!”

    I turned to see a boy, who looked about 16, coming towards me. I told him to leave my property. But he came closer and swung at me, hitting me in the mouth. I punched him in the chest, nearly knocking him down. After that, rocks and a large tree branch rained down on me.

    As the group circled in on me, the boy ran over to another group of a few young males, yelling, “Give me the pistol! Let me have the pistol!” In response, a slender young male lifted his jersey, exposing the handle of a gun in his waistband. The boy – I later found out his name was Melvin – put his right hand on the gun handle…..

    • Floridianne says:

      These minor children appear to be much more dangerous than many would like to believe, huh? Why aren’t the parents being sued for the damages inflicted by their feral offspring? I think that would be a reasonable response; after being forced to use deadly force to defend your life you need a criminal attorney. Next, the civil suit?

  32. jordan2222 says:

    Please look at page 2, paragraph 2 of the probable cause affidavit. Isn’t DeeDee necessary for the second degree murder charge?

    If for any reason whatsoever, she cannot be deposed or refuses to answer questions in the depo, what happens then?

    We are having all of this discussion about her and Crump, but I don’t recall anyone even mentioning the charging document and how it relates to all of this.

    Is the charging document no longer relevant?

    • John Galt says:

      “If for any reason whatsoever, she cannot be deposed or refuses to answer questions in the depo, what happens then?”

      Nelson excludes her from testifying and Corey, BDLR and Crump go out to celebrate.

      • jordan2222 says:

        How can they prove their case without her testimony?

        • John Galt says:

          “How can they prove their case without her testimony?”

          I don’t think they can prove it either way, but I don’t see any way DD can hold up on cross. In fact, I don’t see her holding up on direct, unless Nelson permits BDLR to lead her in clear violation of the rules. Come to think of it, that is probably what will happen:

          BDLR: Isn’t it true that. . . . .
          MOM: Objection, leading.
          Nelson: overruled.
          DD: You could say dat.


        • jello333 says:

          They really can’t prove anything either way… with OR without her. Which is why I don’t think that’s their goal anymore. As they’ve proven, they are terrified at the thought of anything regarding Dee Dee, the phones, or Crump being used at a hearing/trial. It’s THEY who are trying to keep that all out. If by doing so, they lose the case, that will be a small price to pay compared to the catastrophe they will face if their whole scheme is ever exposed to the world. In other words, if Nelson is in on this (and she very much appears to be) her main purpose is probably NOT to make sure George is convicted, but rather is to make sure the State and the Scheme Team are protected. So MOM and West are gonna have to rely on the DCA to get any help in that regard. The one thing that could throw a wrench into the Schemers’ plans is a Richardson hearing which, by law, Nelson MUST hold. But of course we’ve seen how much the law means to that woman, haven’t we.

          • jordan2222 says:

            “if their whole scheme is ever exposed to the world”

            By now, they must know that is going to happen anyway.. maybe not right now but I guarantee you that there will be books and documentaries about this case.

            Exactly how does a Richardson hearing work in Florida and are there any exceptions for it to be granted?

    • rooferx says:

      The traydemark’s say it doesn’t matter. It was just to make a charge.
      Pretty much saying, “they lied and the magistrate fell for it, but now it doesn’t matter”.
      Of course, one of those Traydemarks was Mrs. Leatherhaed.

    • jello333 says:

      Good question. I remember people debating that a long time ago, and I think someone said it would have had to been challenged within the first few days. That just seems REAL stupid to me, so I don’t know if it’s true. If it is, that’s extremely messed up… and makes zero sense IMO. But if it CAN still be challenged?… yeah, seems that could easily kill this whole case.

      • justfactsplz says:

        Jello, you need to sign into the password chicken thread and join the party.

        • jordan2222 says:

          This why I consider it so important to “follow the blog.” Trust me.. You will only receive notifications of NEW thread.. almost always less than a half dozen emails each day but you will never miss a thing if you do it right.

          • justfactsplz says:

            I will do it. I just got bombarded with comments one time but since this is different it sounds fine. Thanks.

            • jordan2222 says:

              Unless you have the time, do not subscribe to the comments. You would have received 355 emails so far today. If you do and want to stop them at any point during the day, you can easily change that, too.

        • jello333 says:

          Huh? Ok, lemme check it out…

      • jordan2222 says:

        I would think that the State must prove all elements in the affidavit from the moment of the charge all the way through to trial. How could it be otherwise? The charge is second degree murder and it requires clear, irrefutable proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe that some states require that evidence to be produce at the time of the charge. This was the point the Dershowitz was arguing .

        Are we to believe that they are not required to have evidence to support EVERYTHING in the document?

        If the evidence changes and/or “disappears,” shouldn’t the charges be dropped or at least downgraded?

        I would love to hear an explanation of this in layman’s terms.

        • jello333 says:

          “Are we to believe that they are not required to have evidence to support EVERYTHING in the document? If the evidence changes and/or ‘disappears,’ shouldn’t the charges be dropped or at least downgraded?”

          I agree 100%. But I just don’t know what the (legal) answer is. Like you, I know what it SHOULD be, and if it’s not there’s something seriously wrong.

          Anyone know the answer??

          • jordan2222 says:

            You and I have both pursued this in the past but I do not recall ever getting a clear cut explanation. What happened to cathyca?

  33. Crump on Piers Morgan: “Well, Piers, you try to be very open and honest about it and, ask them as Sybrina and Tracy have said so many times, its not personal until it comes to your doorstep when you lose your child to senseless violence. Ugh, last year before Trayvon was tragically killed very many people knew little about the stand your ground law until it came out that his killer was not arrested because this stand your ground law. And that’s important that we realize what this movement was about. His killer was only part of the symptom of the problem.The problem is that we had the stand your ground law that encouraged vigilante justice. If he would’ve just waited in the car Trayvon would be livin, he wouldn’t be facin prison and, you know, truly the message is going to be sent after this trial where are we at with equal justice. Where we at with this stand your ground law. Because if he’s not held accountable what message does that send to the next child that’s killed unarmed on the ground.”
    His speech is getting better. But, he still doesn’t make much sense.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Crump only decided to become a lawyer because a “little white girl” with 100.00 dollar bill offered to by him and his buddies a burger. IMO, sounds like he was jealous of this very generous little girl. He assumes the girls family didn’t have to work hard for that money. She must not have offered him the change.

      WLTX.com 4/23/12 interview:

      {Crump can pinpoint the moment his path to the law was set. He was in the fifth grade and by the late 1970s integration finally arrived in his hometown of rural Lumberton, N.C. His class at South Lumberton Elementary School was the first to be bused to the town’s white school. All the black children, like him, were on the federal free-lunch program. In the cafeteria one day, a white girl in his new class pulled out a $100 bill and offered to buy Crump and the other black children hamburgers and fries, whatever they wanted.

      The boy was stunned.

      “I kept thinking to myself how much my mother would have to work to have $100,” Crump recalled.

      His single mom worked two jobs — at a factory by day and, at night, cleaning hotel rooms. That little girl with the $100 made something click in Benjamin Crump.

      “Why do certain people in a community have it so easy and people in another community have it so hard?” Crump said he wondered. “I want to do like Thurgood Marshall and make it more equitable in all communities.”}

      • brutalhonesty says:

        wow, i recall the blacks at my high school school getting free lunch. they all smoked newports, had gold jewelry, weed, and wallets full of cash. I had to pay for my lunch. They always had more food than I did.
        I got in trouble for pointing that fact out.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I had to pay for mine too and my parents were not well off. They think it is owed to them these days because of their race. Most of them on welfare have fancy cars and clothes, expensive jewelry, phones, electronics, etc. My husband and I are both disabled on a fixed budget. We don’t have a flat screen t. v. we are not on welfare. We don’t feel we are owed anything other than that which we worked for years.

      • jello333 says:

        Oh so now he’s comparing himself to Thurgood Marshall! Give it up, freak. If either Marshall or MLK were here today, they’d spit in the faces of you and your lying, hypocritical, racist ilk.

      • John Galt says:

        “Crump can pinpoint the moment his path to the law was set. He was in the fifth grade”

        Was he a minor child?

      • Didn’t Traydad give Trayvon $100 bill on February 26th?

        • maggiemoowho says:

          Your right, I forgot about that. I bet TM didn’t buy hamburgers and fries for any “little girls”. Some people have it so easy these days, while others have to work.

  34. brutalhonesty says:

    admin, curious….has there been an uptick in site traffic since bdlr mentioned the treehouse in open court?

    • stellap says:

      Not at all – I just checked. We haven’t had a big day since Feb 15. Previous big day before that was Feb 1.

      • jello333 says:

        Well then make sure you put a stop-payment on that advance check that was given to Bernie. He obviously lied about how good his marketing and promo skills are.

  35. brutalhonesty says:

    ugh http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/26/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE91P03D20130226
    By Barbara Liston
    SANFORD, Florida | Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:41pm EST
    (Reuters) – A year after the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager in this central Florida town, there is a small memorial, a new police chief and an effort to improve race relations.

    Trayvon Martin, 17, was gunned down on February 26, 2012, as he walked to his father’s fiancee’s home in one of Sanford’s gated communities. The man accused of his killing, George Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic on neighborhood watch, is set to be tried on June 10.

    A judge could grant immunity to Zimmerman at a pre-trial hearing on April 29 under Florida’s controversial Stand Your Ground law, which allows people to use lethal force in self defense if they are in fear of serious bodily harm.

    Martin’s death drew top-tier civil rights leaders, such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who brought a national spotlight to this town just north of Orlando and not far from Disney World.

    That spotlight forced the town of 53,000 to confront police work that seemed to be a throwback to the days of separate and resolutely unequal racial sensibilities.

    “This situation, with all eyes on Sanford is making them (city leaders) do something about it now,” said Cindy Philemon, 49, who helps run the local black heritage museum and welcome center.

    A year later Martin’s family says it does not want the case considered in racial terms. “We don’t want people to see this as a black kid. I want people to see this as a teenager … who was walking, minding his own business,” Martin’s mother, Sabrina Fulton, told the NPR radio show “Tell Me More” on Monday night.

    Despite the pain of losing her son, Fulton said she was glad that a debate had opened up about Florida’s Stand Your Ground law.

    The family is backing an amendment to the law seeking to restrict its application. “You can’t follow, pursue and chase anyone, be the aggressor, have a confrontation with him, shoot and kill him, and then go home to your bed and nothing happens,” she said.

    During the weekend, volunteers in the black community hastily worked to complete a modest memorial of stuffed animals, cards and crosses in time to remember the first anniversary of Martin’s shooting. It has also become a way for Sanford to remember the many other black victims of violence whose stories largely went untold.

    City Manager Norton Bonaparte, who is black, said Sanford had begun to tackle deep-seated problems between police and the black community that were exposed in public forums after Martin’s death.

    “In honoring Trayvon’s life, we have to make ourselves a better community,” Bonaparte said.

    The police chief at the time of Martin’s shooting lost his job over criticism that his department and prosecutors chose not to charge or arrest Zimmerman.

    The new chief starts his job in April.

    “Now, it’s like the police are getting more involved in being with the community,” Philemon said. “They are starting to do their part in interacting with us. They say there is not as many shootings as there once was.”

    Another resident, Thelma Holmes, 62, agreed saying, “It is better than what it was before, because we had a lot of killings of young men … The people and the police, they’re both trying.”

    Trayvon’s death will not be forgotten.

    “It started people to come forward. So his death is not going to be in vain,” Philemon said. “And he will always be remembered.”

    Martin’s parents and lawyers will be in New York City, not Sanford, to hold a candlelight vigil on Tuesday night.

    Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder, was granted bond and ordered to surrender his passport, agree to be electronically monitored, reside in Seminole County, and observe a nighttime curfew.

    (Editing by David Adams, Leslie Gevirtz and Bill Trott)



  36. LetJusticePrevail says:

    OK, maybe I am having a DUHHHH moment, but I have one question to ask. Sure, the Schedule Nazi set up April 22nd and the “drop dead date” for an Immunity Hearing, based on counting back 45 days from June 10th, but can she *legally* enforce that, based on precedent set by case law? What if Mark O’Mara filed a Motion for Immunity on, say, June 6th? Can she *legally* refuse to hear that motion?

    • John Galt says:

      Peterson / Denis cases SCOFLA said 776.032 immunity should be determined by motion to dismiss pursuant to 3.190(b). 3.190(c) seems to indicates that time for filing motion to dismiss is at discretion of the court.

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        I agree that in Dennis v State the FL SC ruled that 3.190(b) is the appropriate rule:

        We conclude that where a criminal defendant files a
        motion to dismiss pursuant to section 776.032, the trial
        court should decide the factual question of the
        applicability of the statutory immunity. A motion to
        dismiss on the basis of section 776.032 immunity is not
        subject to the requirements of rule 3.190(c)(4) but instead
        should be treated as a motion filed pursuant to rule

        And from the Rules of Procedure:

        (a) In General. Every pretrial motion and pleading in response to a motion shall
        be in writing and signed by the party making the motion or the attorney for the party. This
        requirement may be waived by the court for good cause shown. Each motion or other
        pleading shall state the ground or grounds on which it is based. A copy shall be served on the adverse party. A certificate of service must accompany the filing of any pleading.

        (b) Motion to Dismiss; Grounds. All defenses available to a defendant by plea,
        other than not guilty, shall be made only by motion to dismiss the indictment or information,whether the same shall relate to matters of form, substance, former acquittal, former jeopardy, or any other defense.

        (c) Time for Moving to Dismiss. Unless the court grants further time, the
        defendant shall move to dismiss the indictment or information either before or at
        arraignment. The court in its discretion may permit the defendant to plead and thereafter to file a motion to dismiss at a time to be set by the court. Except for objections based on
        December 31, 2012 Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure79 fundamental grounds, every ground for a motion to dismiss that is not presented by a motion to dismiss within the time hereinabove provided shall be considered waived. However, the court may at any time entertain a motion to dismiss on any of the following grounds:….

        OK, so obviously, IANAL but I fail to see where 3.190(b) places a time constraint on a motion that is properly filed. What am I missing?

  37. rumpole2 says:

    IANAL but I would say YES she can. The trial date is SET… and the “rule” is an Immunity hearing has to be 45 days prior to that. If MOM misses that bus… there is no other one coming along

  38. brutalhonesty says:

    more commercially created tm photoshop


    • jello333 says:

      How many parents have had sons or daughters killed over the past year — most through absolutely no fault of their own — who get virtually NO attention and publicity. No rallies, no “resolutions”, no copyrighted images, no “tribute” songs and messages… nothing! Now that I’m thinking about that, I’m getting pretty angry.

  39. brutalhonesty says:

    more manufactured outrage for attention.

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