01-27 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
damage.
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

REMINDER – Please WATCH THE TONE and CONTENT of Commentary. Please be respectful, courteous and considerate of other readers and contributors. Please avoid hatespeak, angry rhetoric, vulgarity, personal attacks and condescension. If you wish to engage in vitriolic, racist, or bitter angry rhetoric, there are alternative sites on the internet more than welcoming to such considerations. But not here. Thank You.

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298 Responses to 01-27 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Post From Justarse Quest

    Occam’s Razor needed urgently at JQ.

    Let’s forget what the evidence shows and run with “What if……”

    The fact they have MULTIPLE “what ifs…” defeats their submissions from the outset.

    They can propose MULTIPLE possibilities because there is no evidence to say any one of them is true.

    So far the ONLY scenario supported by any evidence is GZ’s version.

    For the JQ legal “brains” lex parsimoniae

    Random Topics

    http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=20363#p20363

    Like

    • rumpole2 says:

      Frank Zappa – Occam’s Razor

      Like

    • lovemygirl says:

      You have an endless supply of stupidity with just one group.

      “The state doesn’t need to complicate the case by bringing stalking charges”
      VS
      They did not charge him with stalking because he did not nor is there any evidence to support that?

      Like

      • eastern2western says:

        if calling the cops because of suspicious activities is consider to be stalking, then lock me up now.

        Like

        • arkansasmimi says:

          Me too, E2W!

          Like

        • mcfyre2012 says:

          I read the weekly police sheriff department blotter for my zip code and three fourths of the police calls from my subdivision are for “suspicious activity.” Nothing wrong with that if it prevents bigger crimes from happening.

          Like

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            And that is WHY the police encourage the formation of Neighborhood Watch groups. They NEED our help. A concept that so many TrayHuggers want to forget, because it disallows their inane argument that George was some sort of self-appointed vigilante. VIGILANCE is not the same thing as VIGILANTISM.

            Like

      • jello333 says:

        I guess we should just be glad they’re not charging George with burglary and conspiracy, for that burglary ring he, Taffee, Osterman, and the cockatoo were involved in.

        Like

        • rumpole2 says:

          They HAVE accused GZ of perhaps being a paedophile and approaching TM for that reason. They have suggested that the boys GZ mentored would have a tale to tell. They have also NEVER let go of the cousin’s very suspect and unsubstantiated accusations and labelled George a “rapist” and a paedophile over that unproven childhood incident as well. Bestiality in the form of cockatoo rape is only a breath away.

          Like

          • rumpole2 says:

            And yet they can not see themselves……they are hate filled and sick. Making ANYTHING up based on nothing more than their own warped imagining of what might be true.

            Like

          • jello333 says:

            As I said in another comment, it’s getting harder and harder for me to just laugh off what these scumbags say. I’m starting to get really sick of it. I know they’re “small fish”, but I’m hoping that in addition to the big ones, like NBC, Beasley decides to take out a few specific, hateful individuals. Even if they don’t have any money to speak of, at least drag them in to court and show them for what they really are. Couldn’t happen to nicer people.

            Like

            • rumpole2 says:

              I doubt it will happen.. but a few civil suits against individual posters would be nice.. perhaps the forum owners more realistic?
              I know established sites like Websleuths are very careful to not allow unsubstantiated accusations to be posted as fact. You are not allowed to just name people and start spouting off about the, It seems WS does have some concern for libel laws.
              Not so at JQ.. the posters and the owner spout off about anybody, naming them and accusing them in very libellous terms. They are amateurs who used to run a VERY small forum that few knew about…..they could get away with it then I don’t think the owners have come to grips with the large number of known “shit-stirrers” they have embraced as members… who not only posts libellous comments at JQ.. but then spread the poison and boast about it on social media. The whole business of attacking and stalking RZ’s twitter could be the start of real people taking places like JQ to task. I know for most there it is just a game.. they name people as if they were just fictional avatar names like themselves… but they are not.. they are real people with real lawyers.

              Like

              • janc1955 says:

                Rumpole: JQ needs just one good scare of a legal nature. I do think they’re so dense and unsophisticated that the scare would need to have teeth. But if they were served with a legal document that threatened legal action against the owners, I suspect — after the requisite underwear change — we might see a change over there. I do think they’d need to close down the TM forum altogether as Websleuths did, because I don’t think they could adequately police all the crazies they’ve allowed to talk trash about GZ for nearly a year.

                Like

                • rumpole2 says:

                  I think they need to BAN the dog pack crowd who have infiltrated the place.
                  Only a few “old JQ” have joined the rabble… they are cretins and could be banned too.
                  Baker is in the “needs banning” group… but that would be silly… :)
                  Just ban everybody that has posted in the Trayvon zone in the past month.
                  They always will be more of a place for Gossip rather than any serious analysis… they should embrace that notion and stop pretending they are legal experts or psychologists.. or particularly good sleuths… just gossip about cases (superficial aspects), and celebrities.. and swap recipes and tips on housework… talk about “Wimins Health Issues”…… that is their forte.
                  They have entire forums for Michael Jackson news, and Octomom?? … best they stick to that sort of stuff… and their knitting of course. :D

                  Like

            • murderbythebook says:

              I wish we could see them on TV while being dragged into court to defend their crazy made up statements of fact.
              Big fat women who never shower and really stink. A group with their walkers because of their girth and hair never combed. All squinting in the light of day they usually never see.

              Like

          • rumpole2 says:

            Coincidently… just a few minutes ago:
            BobMendel Posts at JQ
            Yes, but you don’t follow young black boys around like Jerry Sandusky did. Whenever I hear about following a random black boy around, I think of Jerry Sandusky.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              These people are seriously freaky. Trayvon the “young black boy” being stalked by a child molester. Uh…. Hey, I say this once in awhile, and I’m wondering if you agree: Trayvon would be DISGUSTED if he could see these idiots talking about him in this way.

              Like

      • John Galt says:

        “They did not charge him with stalking because he did not nor is there any evidence to support that?”

        Murder 2: I don’t think lack of evidence deters Corey.

        Like

        • libby says:

          Breaking the law doesnt phase corey in the least nor does evidence tamperign nor witness tampering nor does persecuting an innocent man (and woman-shellie)

          Like

    • justfactsplz says:

      Where do they get that George said he was reaching for his gun when Trayvon approached him? He never said that.

      Like

      • lovemygirl says:

        Cell Phone, Gun What is the difference. George obviously deserved a beating because Trayvon approached his truck with his hand in his waistband, circled it, and stared menacingly. After that George was supposed to cower and hide instead of try and see where the punk ran. When George did not get back in his truck after two minutes, Trayvon obviously had the street laws on his side, yeah, sucker punching someone and beating them was obvious street justice until George pulled out his lifesaver and saved his life. Oh No, that wasn’t fair, George had a gun and the little boy Trayvon did not. No Fair, do over, cry to a racist Mommy and Sperm donor. Call out the BGI! (was it BGI?)

        Like

        • libby says:

          Yup,
          Trayvon had every right to beat the crap out of GZ cuz he dared go for his phone in his pocket. if george got to use the street justice trayvon gets to use, he could of shot trayvon just for circling his car with his hand in his waistband, but of course, GZ being a percieved white guy doesnt get to use mob justice laws like thugvon

          Like

      • jello333 says:

        You know, this just shows how very, very honest and forthcoming George was trying to be in his statements to the cops. He could very easily have NOT mentioned about starting to reach for his phone, and the GZ Haterz wouldn’t have now been able to spew their lies about Trayvon thinking he was reaching for a gun. If George had “planned and rehearsed” his statements, as the idiots claim, he would have just left out the “reaching for my phone” part… just to simplify things. God, where do these freaks get off calling George a liar? The guy is almost honest to a fault.

        Like

      • eastern2western says:

        even if zimmerman were reaching for his gun, he broke no law and does not deserve punch because it is his on gun and he had the right to use it when he felt like he was in danger.

        Like

        • libby says:

          Trayvon had every right to threaten George
          George had no right to defend himself.
          And this is because according to the black grievance industry (BGI), only African americans deserve rights

          Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          He certainly did have the right. He was reaching for his cell phone.

          Like

      • John Galt says:

        “Where do they get that George said he was reaching for his gun when Trayvon approached him? He never said that.”

        Fabricated, like everything else. Gilbreath called it first: State lacks any evidence to rebut Z’s version of events.

        Like

    • jello333 says:

      I’ve gone through a lot of emotions with the idiotic “theories” these people come up with. At first it was just confusion, incomprehension…. how on earth could they come to THIS idiotic conclusion? Then after awhile, it just started to make me angry, in that it was obvious they were just LYING in order to further the persecution of George. But then, little by little, it started to become clear that most (not all) of them were just warped… they really had deluded themselves to the point where they BELIEVED their own fairy tales. I couldn’t decide if that was sad, or if it was funny…. maybe some of both.

      But now I’m starting to have a different emotion, a different reaction. Now it’s starting to make me feel a little sick. I mean literally sick to my stomach. Not sure why that is, but it’s how a lot of their stuff has been hitting me recently. Maybe it’s because they’re getting more HATEFUL by the day, and that hatred is almost manifesting itself into something very REAL. It’s almost creating something of a real, tangible stench.

      Like

      • lovemygirl says:

        I had one or two that understood everything up until the confrontation. Both were single Mom’s with “Dopey kids that dressed and acted that way”, so I initially dismissed it as over protective Moms thinking their kid could die, but shortly after that, they went off the cliff and sound like the dog pound. It is weird seeing people dismiss the facts and resorting to the hate.

        Like

      • libby says:

        I wonder Jello,
        I get the same feeling as you describe.
        And ya know what? I feel the same way every time I see Hilary Clinton (especially if she is testilying before the congress or the senate)

        Like

      • Sharon says:

        You’ve described what many are trying to process. It’s not only “as bad as we think” it’s actually far worse. We begin to slowly realize that our fears of exaggerating what is happening are not only groundless, but probably hinder us from getting in touch with the details of reality and the big picture as well.

        It’s bad. On all fronts. Recognizing that is a good thing, because it helps us toward dis-illusionment, which is just the process of having our illusions exposed. We seriously need to be completely dis-illusioned so that that the scalpels we are wielding on behalf of our nation and our communities cut DEEP. If things are going to improve, the malignancies really do have to be cut out.

        George’s open-ended fight for life is just one of a hundred places where exactly the same thing is happening. Congressional failure. Benghazi. Mali. Chicago. Failure to guard our borders. Printing on endless amounts of paper and calling it money. Piss Christ. Rapes in Tahrir Square. You’re right on–hatred is becoming palpable at all levels.

        I saw a quote from Sarah Palin yesterday (who is one of the few people on the face of the earth who is probably worth her weight in gold), but it bugged me anyway. She said, re the political and national disasters of the week, “We have not yet begun to fight.” Yes, I understand the use of the phrase–but it also triggered a frustrated holler from deep within my soul, “WHY NOT???? How can we get this far into Stage 5 National Malignancy and we STILL have not BEGUN TO FIGHT???” That describes Congress. I refuse to believe it describes her–or most of us.

        Like

        • kobeclan says:

          I LOVED Sarah Palin’s statement!

          Sharon, you need to put her paraphrasing of John Paul Jones’ famous quote into historical context. The American vessel, the “Bonhomme Richard” was getting its ass kicked by the British vessel, HMS “Serapis”. In fact, the American vessel would sink the next day. Legend has it, that when the British captain asked Jones to surrender, his reply was “Surrender? I have not yet begun to fight!”

          Stay positive. Sarah Palin is still worth her weight in gold.

          The Republicans in Congress, however, have not yet finished surrendering.

          Like

          • Sharon says:

            I understand the historical context–what bothers me, I guess, in that in our present political environment with useless leadership we have on all sides, it actually comes across a little different. They have not, indeed, even started to fight so it doesn’t seem to me that the historical context fits. For Sarah, yes. Generally speaking, no.

            Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          I have been wondering where Palin has been with all this anti gun movement. I thought she would be the first one to speak out.

          Like

          • Knuckledraggingwino says:

            Over at Conservatives for Palin, they had a statement from Gov Palin demonstrating her support for “gun control” with videos of her firing a 12 gauge shotgun, a Remington 700 in 7 mm mag, and a military issue M-16 while visiting Alaska National Guard Troops in Iraq. After viewing the photos and video of Gov Palin shootng while wearing the Tee shirt the troops gave her, it is easy to understand why the Alaska National Guard were the only unit that honored their governor by decorating their barack’s with her photos.

            Like

      • murderbythebook says:

        I thought I must be the only one who was getting sick to my stomach because it seemed so odd. Praise the Lord for a banning at that time. I felt better immediately when I couldn’t read there. I could even eat again.

        Like

      • janc1955 says:

        Jello: I don’t read their posts. That’s how I deal with it. On the rare occasion I visit the TM forums at JQ, I read a handful of posts, see it’s the same sh!t, different day, and I move on. I don’t visit Leatherman’s site, I don’t check GZ-related tweets. Maybe I’m sticking my head in the sand as a coping mechanism, because frankly, I don’t know what to do with my own very negative emotions when I see the lies and lynch mob mentality. There’s no point in responding, so I have no outlet for my feelings. It’s best if I just steer clear.

        Like

    • ejarra says:

      In all the “what ifs” they say, why is it they never seem to say the biggest “what ifs”? “What if” Mr. Martin ran to Brandi’s condo and stayed there? By both DD’s and Georgie’s call, Mr. Martin lost Georgie. “What if” Mr. Martin stayed hidden and not come out of the shadows and confronted and attacked Georgie?

      “What if” Tracy acted like a real parent that weekend instead of a guy more interested in partying and being with a woman while still married? I hope deep down he realizes that he’s more to blame for his son’s death than anyone else and it haunts him for the rest of his life. He had/has an opportunity to speak out and tell others of his mistake so they don’t make the same mistake. But no, that would go against the BGI narrative. Must blame whitey and not take responsibility.

      These are more like the true “what ifs”; not the crap they come up with.

      Like

    • raiikun says:

      Yeah, I’m 90% sure that this recently made twitter “Esq” account is Noahman pretending to be an Ivy league lawyer for the purpose of spreading misinformation.

      Like

  2. arkansasmimi says:

    Praying for a Sun Shiny Day Geo and Shellie!!!! and my fellow shade tree climbers!!! This is the day the LORD has made!!! Rejoice and be glad in it :)

    Like

  3. brutalhonesty says:

    Just a reminder, February 5th is my birthday. More importantly, it is George’s next court date. Least importantly its some dead kids birthday, but who cares, hes not here, so no party, presents, cake. Just a bunch of racist money grubbing dredges to society exploiting a dead kid to line their pockets.

    Expect the Martins and Crump to hold a presser just before the hearing, to say the typical stuff they have said over and over since the beginning. They will use the propaganda technique of DEIFICATION:
    This is when an idea is made to appear holy, sacred, or very special and therefore above all law. Any alternative or opposite points of view are thereby given the appearance of treason or blasphemy.
    Examples: “God-given right to…”, “innocent [black] child”..”my son”…”dead child”…”wasnt committing any crimes”.

    Sybrina will make an emotional appeal again, as donations are drying up and crump going everywhere with her is getting expensive. “I hope you have not forgotten about my son”
    She and Crump will both slip in the name of whatever fraud they are running now, if it isnt still “change for trayvon”…in every other sentense.

    Expect the PR Firms paid trolls to be out hard pushing the propaganda leading up to, the morning of, and during the hearing. Then expect a lag in their talking points while the pr firm goes to damage control mode and evaluates the judges rulings.

    Once the Pr firm comes up with their talking points, Natalie and Ben and the martins, global grind, and certain media will all follow accordingly all at virtually the same time thanks to the networks they have developed on facebook and twitter, which I have outlined previously in other threads here and elsewhere(treehouse excluded). All the research is there for all to see, in public view, real time, as it happened. There is no disputing how I have thus far gotten from A to B.

    And finally, their side has already as outlined previously started a false rumor and attributed it to zimmerman supporters, that the videos entered/subpoena’d show trayvon checking car door handles…this is an attempt by the pr firm to discredit the treehouse and anyone else who repeated it. It began with the pr firm, was issued to the paid trolls, and they started claiming they heard it from somewhere. None of us saw it before they were talking about it, and we are on this like hawks. The intent of this misdirection is so when the videos in fact show him doing something else illegal, or not illegal..doesnt matter which…….they can claim “the racists assumed he was on camera looking at cars cuz hes black, they lied about trayvon because they are racists, thats slander and they are guilty of it and we caught them inventing evidence about a dead black child whos only crime was (nothing, smoking a blunt, getting a beer somehow, getting his weed ruined in the rain, stopping somewhere to roll a blunt, smoking a black and mild whatever it is).

    1:09am 1/27/2013
    Greg Miller from the Show Me State.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      I suggest that last paragraph be highlighted here somewhere, to make sure everyone sees it and understands what is (possibly) going on.

      Like

    • Lou says:

      great post bh

      Like

    • hooson1st says:

      There will be heightened internet interest in the case on that date. Some of it will be directed to CTH. CTH could be ready with a short but compelling recap.

      The essence of the case is – who was the aggressor, GZ or TM.

      Who was yelling “help, help, help, help, help? Was it the guy who was bleeding from the face with the broken nose and lacerations on the back of head? Or was it the guy who had no marks on him save for the fatal bullet wound?

      Like

      • ejarra says:

        hoos…, Your viewpoints and messages have seemed to change. You used to be more of a devil’s advocate, questioning pro-GZ statements with a sort of middle temperament argument. Now you seem much more pro-GZ. I’m not saying that’s it a bad direction. I’m very pro-GZ. Have you changed the way you look at this?

        Like

        • hooson1st says:

          I have always believed that the evidence, as far as we know it, supports what GZ told the police. And I think that the odds are very small that anything new will show up to change this view.

          What I have difficulty in accepting are flat assertions which are really speculations derived from a rational narrative, but gleaned from a incomplete knowledge base.

          I came to CTH by accident when initial publicity over the TM case was ebbing.

          From my experience and limited knowledge gained from the sensationalist media coverage, even through that coverage, GZ’s actions were that of an innocent man, and more so, of a naive person. That alone was not dispositive, but it was an indication.

          It reminded me of the case of Steven Hatfill who was falsely accused of being involved in 2001 anthrax scares. Hatfill from day one behaved the way an innocent person accused of a heinous should and was eventually cleared.

          In googling around to find more facts of the case, I came across CTH. I was impressed by the depth, sleuthing and examination of attainable facts that had been done by Treeper’s, in particular D-man, and many others. The open and robust debate, and the exploration of various theories was a positive.

          I was less impressed by the tenor of some of the speculation, especially as regards TM, his parents, and associates. It is not that such subject matter should be off limits, but I thought that it could be conducted with more decorum.

          The fact that I will challenge pro-GZ statements is because I believe they are deserving of challenge. And by so doing, I learn more.

          All we should care about are the facts. We should welcome challenges, It causes us to review our own assumptions. It allows to hone our arguments. We learn from being challenged. We do not learn if we just preach to the choir.

          Like

          • ejarra says:

            Thank you and as always a well thought out, intelligent response.

            Like

          • libby says:

            “I was less impressed by the tenor of some of the speculation, especially as regards TM, his parents, and associates. It is not that such subject matter should be off limits, but I thought that it could be conducted with more decorum.”
            .
            First, I want to thank you.
            second, i want to agree with you.
            Third, though I prefer civility, when attacked viciously (not by you), I fight back.
            If the supporters of trayvon had wanted civility, then they should have acted civilly when they started this. Did they think they could make a bunch of threats of violence and we would talk nice to them?
            I am not a mere observer of this stuff, I live it. I live in the state of Florida and the threats of thug riots came real close to home (I saw how the local cops and the state cops refused to go after the real vigilantes just as the federal cops did nothing or next to nothing to stop the threats of thug riots).
            The way to get me to be nice is not to threaten me. That brings out the opposite in me.

            Like

      • John Galt says:

        “The essence of the case is – who was the aggressor, GZ or TM.”

        Doesn’t actually matter, except with respect to the immunity hearing. If Z was the aggressor, he can still defend himself pursuant to 776.041. Of course, State has zero evidence that Z was the aggressor.

        Like

    • libby says:

      A reminder to all:
      All they have to do to prevent GZ from going to court on trayvon’s birthday is to drop the persecution of one innocent man, George Zimmerman

      Like

  4. brutalhonesty says:

    LOOK AT WHAT THIS PAGE IS POSTING
    the way I was treated by people I went to catholic school with over the truth of benghazi(pic of stephens dead with hillary with blood on her hands)…and other views by other people…yet this page has 17,360 likes and they are all black and it is pure hate for whites and even talking about blacks are genetically superior to whites and whites come from inferior bloodlines…and no amount of reporting will get facebook to admit it and remove it…but ive been silenced constantly for 4 years with 30 day bans for posting irrefutable facts about immigration or the illegal acts of the obama administration or the trayvon martin case.

    https://www.facebook.com/ExposingBlackTruth

    example of the latest posts:
    Exposing Black Truth
    2 hours ago via mobile
    Black people do not have a problem with hating white people.
    Most Black people love the collective caucasoid with all their heart and this is seen with how we spend our money.
    We should not feel any emotion for this specimen. No love or hate, just analysis of what it is composed of…

    Exposing Black Truth
    2 hours ago via mobile
    The Most Honorable Marcus Mossiah Garvey called the Caucasoid devil from a Biblical perspective.
    The Honorable Elijah Muhammad called the Caucasoid devil from the perspective of being artificially grafted from the original melanated genotype.
    Many white individuals may disagree with such analysis. But when we look at history, they don’t do a good job of making their case.
    Look at what happened to the Native Americans. Look at what happened to the Dravidians in the Caste System. Look at what happened to the Australian Anoriginals.
    The truth is that the recessive grafted specimen that is the Neo-Neanderthalensis was never meant to exist outside of a controlled test environment. Once this fungal sulfuric parasitic destructive specimen sprung loose, death and destruction came upon the indigenous populations that encountered it. History proves this.
    Until the dominant gene reigns over the recessive parasite, the Global Economy and society will remain stagnant and will never reach its full potential.

    Exposing Black Truth
    3 hours ago via mobile
    If I were a Caucasoid instead of an Africoid, I would be racist too.
    If I were a Caucasoid, I would be trying to obstruct the education of Black Children. I would be trying to build up the private prison system to jail young black men. I would be trying to fill Black Women with testosterone. I would be manipulating African resource prices through the Derivatives Market.WHY?
    Because I would know that the black gene is the dominant gene and I would have fear of genetic annihilation. Because of this I would try to use the institutions and markets that other Caucasoids control to prevent the societal rise of the dominant genotypical expression that is the Black Man and Black Woman.
    Black genetic haplogroups are more prevalent than artificial grafted genetic markers.
    If I were a Caucasoid instead of an Africoid, these facts would scare the living sh-it out of me and would lead me to try to prevent the societal rise of the dominant genotype.

    Exposing Black Truth
    3 hours ago via mobile
    “why can’t we all get along?”
    Why in the flying f-uck would we try to get along with people who have been trying to exterminate us?
    Respect should be donated to all ladies and gentleman of Neanderthal descent, but getting along in an integrated society has been a detriment to our side.
    When that clock hits eight AM, and the engines of the global economy start turning, the Neo-Neanderthalensis is the economic competitor and the enemy along with all ores who do not identify with you.

    Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      17,000 in america like this page…defending trayvon martin is a threat to all whites.
      Exposing Black Truth
      Friday via mobile
      Melanin gives Black people athletic, intellectual, respiratory, cardiovascular, digestive, reproductive, genetic and etheric superiority over all other groups.
      But our melanin can be turned off through diet, breath and our thoughts.
      Trashy food, Fast Inconsistent Breathing, and Pale De-Melanated thoughts are what bring us down to the level of the parasite and the beast.
      Shucking and Jiving is really despicable, because it is when Gods and Goddesses willingly fall down to the cesspit level of the beast.
      -Ptah

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Well, I just “reported” them (the entire page, not just a post). Listed it as “hate speech against certain race…” First time I’ve EVER reported anything to Facebook.

        Like

        • libby says:

          Fortunately or unfortunately, hating white people is still the good kind of hate in most circles. it largely goes unnoticed or it is excused (it is real bad form to point out black racism-the libs, the progs and the hateful racists hate it when you point out the most common and virulent form of racism one will encounter)

          Like

    • lovemygirl says:

      Very whacked out sociopath. I’d refrain from reading it ever again.
      Her is a sample on the first page:

      Regardless of what you know about the Hebrews, when most hear the name Jesus the first image that they think of is a white image.

      Those who deny this fact are liars. This image along with the name “Jesus” has been brainwashed into your psyche.

      I hold an image of white Jesus in my home, and I use it for target practice….

      Like

    • libby says:

      brutal honesty-pointing out black racism and black rage since…

      Like

  5. arkansasmimi says:

    WHY? TrayDad, by his own admission, WAS NOT HOME!!!! Female Dogs at the pound have not a clue of any discovery or facts released! Shaking my head
    *******
    Laura‏@003Laura Jan 25 2013
    @datni66alito @MPsoldier1131 @Bradman4539 @rzimmermanjr George Zimmerman wouldve had a problem if Trayvon made it home to tell his father!

    Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      they have more excuses than a french whore. pardon the expression.

      Like

    • lovemygirl says:

      But I thought George, the former bouncer, could have easily kicked his sperm donors ass.

      Like

    • libby says:

      Trayvon would still be alive if his parents had listened to the school that had told them to keep trayvon home for two weeks. Trayvon had been a very bad boy at school and he never learned to keep his hands off of other people it seems

      Like

    • diwataman says:

      It’s probably good practice to also copy and past the URL along with your comments. Even if the tweet is removed the content should remain. But dang, what a stupid comment. So Tracy was home ay? What happened to going out to dinner?

      Like

      • Rich Branson says:

        It’s pretty sad that these troglodytes still don’t “get it”. The comment insinuates that had Tray-Tray made it home to Tracy, Tracy would have whupped Georges butt. They just can’t grasp the simple concept that you can’t assault someone for looking at you the wrong way, or any other perceived non-violent transgression. They can’t grasp that the very same aggressive, violent nature they perpetuate on the interweb is the same thing that got Tray-Tray a bullet in the heart.

        Like

      • arkansasmimi says:

        Thank you Dman, i didnt know how to do that. I just knew how to copy and save in my files.

        Like

    • ftsk420 says:

      Lol if Tracy was home he would have caught the bullet that night.

      Like

      • brutalhonesty says:

        +1000000000000000

        Like

      • libby says:

        if tracey was home that night, he might have been doing the parenting he lied and claimed to be doing.
        traypretenddad pretended to be doing the parenting job of punishing the young man. if pretend dad had really done the job of parenting he pretended to do, his young son would still be alive

        Like

  6. Ad rem says:

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    Like

  7. lovemygirl says:

    Lets see Rumpole added Pavlov’s dogs, we have the dog pound and now the females are in heat. Hmm
    Maybe just Pavlov’s Bitches for short?

    Like

  8. lovemygirl says:

    Now, I began to rethink something. I have always been an animal lover. I’ve always considered myself a dog person but I’ve had cats, Booger, Prissy, Rosie, Scruffy, Garfield and Lucie as cats. I’ve only had Saturday, Whitney, Jelly Bean and Buttercup as dogs. Does one Doberman count as two cats or am I just in the closet cat guy?

    Like

  9. brutalhonesty says:

    I completely forgot about this: The youngest thug was 19.
    My brother and his friend were going to meet at the friends house for lunch like they always did. The friends roommate was in the upstairs bedroom asleep. When they arrived at the neighborhood the whole area was blocked off due to a shooting and manhunt.

    They found out later it was my brothers friends house.
    These people broke into the house, ductaped my brothers friend’s roommate, were going to kill him but they ran out of time…one of them had said “not yet, finish getting the tvs and shit”

    My brother could have been there. If they were 10 minutes earlier they would have walked in on it in progress….unarmed.

    The next door neighbor happened to be walk past a window that looks right into the friends window and noticed the crime in progress. He called 911, and when police arrived the thugs shot at the cops and ran.

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/two-more-charged-in-st-louis-home-invasion-police-shooting/article_653d7688-fc1a-11e1-a468-001a4bcf6878.html

    http://stltoday.mycapture.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=1500388&CategoryID=38578

    Like

  10. joeyp1 says:

    ????? Preparing for riots ???
    Machine gun fire from military helicopters flying over downtown Miami Fl.

    Like

    • Alexandra M. says:

      I believe the helicopters were there trying to get through to Trayvonsista “Shannoninmiami” (a particularly obtuse, loud, crude and foul-mouthed Leatherhead).

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      And they tell us not to worry. “No, we’re not becoming a police state. Just calm down, this is all for your own good. We’re just trying to keep you safe.”

      Sick. Disgusting. Fascists.

      Like

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        If using the military to suppress civil disorder makes a police state, the U.S. has been one since the Whiskey Rebellion.

        Like

        • jello333 says:

          True. But it’s getting worse. And more people seem to be OK with it. I think that’s what bothers me the most. Especially since 9-11, a lot of people seem to be like, “Just protect me! I don’t care what you do with my freedoms, I don’t care how many new laws you have to pass… just protect me!”

          I don’t recall the exact quote, and I think it was Franklin. Something like, “He who would give up essential freedoms in exchange for a little more security deserves neither.”

          Like

        • jello333 says:

          Arrgghh!!! My other reply seems to have disappeared. Let’s see if I can remember what I said…

          I agree that this isn’t new. And on rare, rare occasions it may even be necessary. But what IS different, is that while it’s getting worse and worse, and more advanced, a lot of people are OK WITH THAT. And that’s the worst part of all, if you ask me. Very few people are willing to stand up and say ENOUGH. This started getting real bad since 9-11. Lots of people have the attitude of, “Just protect me! Please! I don’t care how many of my freedoms you take away… whatever you have to do is fine.” And this is one thing that so bothers me about the hypocrisy of many of those on the “left”. They screamed about stuff like that when Bush was in there, but now that it’s Obama, they excuse, and even defend, what the man is doing.

          Like

        • jello333 says:

          Oh, and I forgot to add: What we see in that video should be CRIMINAL! The buzzing the city with choppers is bad enough. But firing blank machine gun rounds? SERIOUSLY?! What if someone had wrecked their car because of it? What if some old man or woman had a heart attack? What if some little kid saw it and is now afraid to go outside?

          Like

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            Good questions. But if the authorities failed to take due care for public safety, that is a different issue from ‘becoming a police state’.

            As for the effect of 9-11 on civil liberties, I agree. I just don’t see how this is a civil liberties issue.

            Like

    • brutalhonesty says:

      One day I saw alot of military in the area…in the air..on the road..later on the news.

      Full Scale air and ground D-Day style

      http://www.ksdk.com/video/1021486736001/0/Marines-invade-St-Louis-Gateway-Arch-grounds

      Like

  11. hooson1st says:

    [I posted this on yesterday's page this morning and am simply reposting here...]

    libby and dmoseylou and jello33 and janc1955

    Is there any possible way that Tracy and Sybrina could have been worse parents, or for that matter, worse people?

    Like

    • diwataman says:

      Allow me to hijack, but what’s the point, of course they could have been or be.

      Like

    • Lou says:

      they obviously have a chip on their shoulder and are sneak. (Tracy’s neck tattoo, no video/audio of Trayvon, 12 year old pics, shot because he was black, tried to hide suspensions etc.)

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      Yeah, I saw that, and I replied in that other thread…

      Like

    • libby says:

      We all need forgiveness.
      We all make mistakes.
      My problem with traydad and traymom was they blamed others for their own mistakes. They accused others of crimes I think they themselves were guilty of.
      They expected George to be responsible for their young son when they themselves were not responsible for that young man.
      To me, traymom and traydad expected George to be all responsible when they were not responsible in the least.
      Could they have been worse? Good question.
      Could they have been better? A better question?
      Should I applaud those who hypocritically accuse others of crimes they themselves had committed like the news media did?
      I know it is unpopular to point out black racism, but I do it anyway even if it upsets them or they threaten me (and even if my own government refuses to protect me cuz of my white skin)

      Like

  12. hooson1st says:

    diwataman

    There seem to be two narratives concerning the GZ/TM tragedy.

    One is the Crump/Julison narrative which basically hijacked media coverage from day one and still predominates today. In that narrative, GZ is presented as a cold-blooded, high testosterone, racially-profiling, liar/killer who killed a charming, innocent, astronaut-want-to-be, math-loving juvenile.

    A different narrative is one that believes that GZ defended himself against a 17 year-old, drug-dealing, martial arts practicing, thug who was trying to kill him and who was raised by now-divorced absentee racist parents, who are liars to boot.

    In addition to all the heartfelt, pointed criticisms levelled at Trayvon’s parents in these discussions, I wondered if there were some further negatives concerning them that might have been overlooked.

    Like

    • diwataman says:

      Oh I don’t know, they’ve been the subject of discussion on and off since last March and as you have noticed they are not exactly honest people, worse than that really, they try to present themselves as some tight nit all loving family. I mean really, what more could be said then what already has been said on this site throughout the months about them. It is what it is.

      Like

      • LittleLaughter says:

        When a kid goes down the wrong path, runs a muck, is involved in a tragic situation, there are several responses parents often have:
        1: Regret for a lack of parenting; guilt for having neglected said child; pray for forgivness.
        2: Blame others or outside forces; project ones own faults onto others, such as school, teachers, friends, authorities, etc. Hide behind some righteous anger toward those blamed- all the while creating an inaccurate image of your perfect child while making excuses for them as well as for yourself.
        3. Take number 2 and put yourself in the role of victim as well; continue to charge others as the ones who were neglegent in their responsibilities to your child; and use the victimhood created, along with a heaping dose of anger and outrage to make a buck for yourself in the process.
        Everything I have witnessed to date clearly points to Number 3 as the preferred path for Martin/Fulton.

        Like

        • LittleLaughter says:

          Take no responsibility or personal accountability for yourself or your kid.

          Like

        • janc1955 says:

          Dead on target, LittleLaughter.

          Like

          • LittleLaughter says:

            janc1955, When my son was in 3rd grade, he had a friend who was an only child of a single mom. Nice kid, but didn’t like to do his work, or be told what to do. Whenever he got into trouble at school, his mother always blamed the teacher and the principal, claiming they didn’t like her boy and were picking on him. Even at that young age, my son knew his friend deserved the punishment the school gave him. He knew his friend was manipulating his mom, claiming he was the victim of teacher preferential treatment to others. Now I see that (20 yr old) kids name in the paper all of the time; arrested for assault, possesion, and larceny. Still no accountability. Mom blames the local police force.

            Like

            • janc1955 says:

              It’s depressing to realize our justice system seems to encourage this type of outlook, too. No one (not cops, not prosecutors, not judges) expects family members of people accused of crimes to be honest. They EXPECT them to lie. They ACCEPT that they lie. It seems it’s a rare parent who owns up to what their delinquent child has done or is capable of doing. Which of course sends exactly the wrong message to the already troubled kid. Not me. Not mine. Not my responsibility. Not my fault. Personal accountability and intellectual honest are for all intents and purposes nearly dead in our society today. People make excuses for virtually everything they do or say that brings inconvenience or harm to other people.

              Like

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      What is the evidence for Martin practicing martial arts?

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        George’s face, lolz, j/k.

        Like

      • hooson1st says:

        None that I am aware of.

        There is the testimony of one witness who indicated that the person top was hitting the person on the bottom with MA type blows. There is a video of TM referring a fight outside of school. That’s about it as far as I know.

        The example narrative that I described above was drawn to the hyperbole that seeps out of both sides.

        Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          I thought you meant to contrast a reasonable narrative with a false one.

          W-6 has recanted on that point.

          In the ‘fight club’ video, why do people infer that the person said to be Martin is refereeing? To me it looks like he just walks past.

          Like

          • hooson1st says:

            I have just finished listening to the link you have provided, all 45 plus minutes of it. I do not see where W-6 recanted. I do see that he allowed for the possibility that TM may have just been holding GZ down in what appeared to be a MMA position. That is not a recantation imo. Later at 40:56, he stated that blows “came from the top”.

            I agree that prosecution can use this testimony to ttry limit the value of W-6, by pointing to the limited amount of time he had to make these observations, but then they would have to apply the same litmus to witnesses they may view favorably for their side. W-6 is a very credible witness and his observations support GZ’s answers to the police.

            Significant, to me, is W-6 statement (near the end) that when he first observed the scene, the two were on the concrete, and when he next observed it, they were on the grass. In both instances, TM was on top. He didn’t say TM, but that is who he clearly was identifying.

            As for the fight club video, I also did not know what to make of it. But, other commentators at CTH have more focused opinions on it.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              Agreed. I don’t hear any “recantation”, at least not how I define that word. And I think he still believes, logically and in his heart, that his original statement is accurate. But since he can’t be 100% certain, he just wanted to clarify. I see nothing wrong with that. Oh, and notice how, right near the end, the other interviewer asks a question about the “clarity” of the yells for yelp. And “John” says that’s one reason he still thinks it was the guy on the bottom… because he was the only one FACING him part of the time. So overall, I think taking BOTH of “John”s statements into account, it’s very, very good for George.

              Like

            • libby says:

              I notice most of the supporters of tray pretend that playing football for years is some sort of sissy sport where he would have played the sport for years and still be a wimpy little kid. trayvon, imo, learned much of what he knew about dishign otu beatings from his YEARS playing football (more recently, he began to study beat downs informally).
              most thugs dont like formal training since it has actual rules you must follow (and since they make you learn real self defense law where you dont get to hand out a beating just cuz you dont like someone protecting the neighborhood in which he lived).

              Like

          • jello333 says:

            I don’t think “John” recanted. In my opinion “recanting” would be if he said, “I no longer believe he was hitting him.” But that’s not what he said. He said, repeatedly, that he MAY have been hitting him, but he also may have been “holding him down”. Plus, he said that he felt the guy on top was “in control”, and that it still makes sense to him that it was the guy on the bottom who was screaming. So yeah, “John” backed off some of the seeming certainty of his first statement, but I don’t think what he did could be called “recanting”.

            Like

            • hooson1st says:

              Compare how Batchelor conducted this interview with how BDLR interviewed DeeDee and you will see the difference between day and night.

              Like

              • libby says:

                As long as everyone is being treated UNEQUALLY, I feel fine.
                As long as George is treated as if he has no rights and as long as trayvon is treated like he was the only one with any rights, I feel fine.
                As long as George had all the personal responsibilities that night and trayvon’s pasrents had zero responsibilities, I am fine.
                When hilary said it takes a village to raise a child, she didnt say the parents would be absolved of all personal responsibility for the rasing of the child did she?
                As long as everyone is treated equally, I feel fine.
                I dont mind if white racists are ostracized, but why are we embracing black racists like they are the good kind of haters?
                Are we gonna hold up traypretendmom as some mother of the year? Because i think that would be an insult to good mothers throughout the country

                Like

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              W-6 told FDLE he was not sure Martin was striking blows, let alone what ‘style’ the blows were. He also said it was the straddling position that made him think of the MMA.

              Like

        • ejarra says:

          I found this interesting knowing what we know now:

          “•Yes, defense attorneys were entitled to the phone and social media records of a 16-year-old Miami girl, thought to be one of the state’s most important witnesses.”

          Crump and BLDR had ample opportunities to correct that glaring error and CHOSE NOT to over 6 months of reporting a “16 yr. old” girl. A question for BLDR, “Why did you sit there like a ‘potted plant’ while this lie was being circulated?”. Wouldn’t that be akin to contempt of court? If an officer of the court knowingly was allowing a significant lie to be used in a capital case, isn’t that the same thing of which that Georgie was being accused?

          Like

      • lovemygirl says:

        I’ve seen some sites claim he was a member to various MMA internet sites. His cousin mentioned him “slap Boxing” with him the week before. No formal training, just the typical stuff kids in those neighborhoods do.

        Like

      • libby says:

        There is no evidence traythug was studying formal martial arts.
        There was evidence he was practicing street fighting and brawling that appeared soemthing like MIXED martial arts.
        if traythug had studied martial arts, he would have learned self control and discipline (he appeared to have learned only how to punch and kick and strike and choke-he never learned the legal aspects of when self defense is permissible)

        Like

    • libby says:

      I like to summarize it simply as:
      some prefer a wanna be thug to a wanna be gang banger.
      the news media clearly is in support of wanna be gang bangers as are our president, the feds and the state government .
      some small few of us actually support the wanna be cop over the wanna be gang banger

      Like

  13. ottawa925 says:

    On CNN tonight (7-8 and 10-11 Central Time) they are having a show hosted by that Soledad O’Brien “Who Is Black in America”. It states 1 in 7 babies born are of mixed race, and they will discuss issues of color and prejudice. Apparently, this has been run before … here is part I. I had asked on another thread why Obama is referred to as Black, when he is also white.

    Like

    • ftsk420 says:

      I saw this when it first came on and this is where I learned about the one drop rule. They also go on to say being black is a way of life.

      Like

    • Lou says:

      well, let’s be real. nobody wants to be an African American. Islanders know they are trouble, lazy and are part of the Black Greivance Industry. I’ve been trying to figure out if Sybrina is Jamaican because of her last name. I don’t think so. Most Jamaicans I know work hard and have respect for others of all cultures, and don’t use race as an excuse.

      Like

    • ottawa925 says:

      This is where the rubber meets the road with what they are teaching young kids. What YOU identify yourself as, and what YOU ARE, may be two different things. What is FACT is FACT, no matter how you want to smudge it. I believe we evolved with color based on environment.

      Like

    • eastern2western says:

      I guess zimmerman is not black enough to be protected by the naacp.

      Like

      • Lou says:

        the problem is George isn’t part of the victim club. the Victim Club NAACP can’t see how getting your head bashed into the pavement can make you a victim, therefore he gets no representation. he’s not black so he should have just stayed in his truck.

        Like

      • mommakk51 says:

        Funny thing too, that even though we see Jah’varis and Tray refer to themselves as “Native American.” (Myspace), that they STILL qualify.

        Like

      • libby says:

        Since George was attending community college, it is apparent, he was trying to ack (ebonics spelling) white and thus deserved a beat down

        Like

    • eastern2western says:

      these people are just chasing for some fantasy that never even existed originally. The idea of a united society does not exist in any race at all. People of different regions have always fought among each other for territory, resources or many other things and division among race was eventually created because of these competitions.

      Like

      • LittleLaughter says:

        I have been asked so many times if I am “mixed”, that I can’t even count them. My parents are both white, as are my grandparents as far back as I can locate. When my own son was born, the neonatal nurse asked me what “ethnic origin” was my son. The black lady cleaning my hospital room asked me “Do he be mixed?” No, I said. His dad is white. He has two close high school friends who are hispanic and they tell him they don’t believe I am not mixed. Aparrently, my ancestors were so poor, that I cannot research them past great -great grandparents. One of my black girlfriends told me in high school that I was just “passin.”
        I guess it all depends on how one believes onself to be. I have no idea what blood runs through my own lineage, but I have never cared.

        Like

        • libby says:

          Though it is interesting to know your ethnic roots, I shall continue to judge you based upon the content of your character even if that massively upsets the racist trayvon supporters

          Like

  14. rumpole2 says:

    Tragedy Vs Crime

    What happened to Trayvon Martin was a tragedy…but not a crime.

    What is happening to George Zimmerman (and his friends and family) is not only a tragedy, but a horrendous crime, or series of crimes.

    A private citizen interrogated and bullied, way beyond reasonable questioning to ascertain the facts of the matter.

    And then threatened bullied and put in fear for his life, and certainly his future liberty.

    The weight of the State Political and judicial system brought to bear on him for no obvious reason other than to assuage the vocal BGI working in cahoots with a “Scheme Team” out to shake down George as a stepping stone to extorting huge payouts from private insurance companies, and ultimately Florida State coffers (hence Florida tax payers).

    A money making scam is crime enough in itself, but it is a travesty of justice and an abomination to see such force levelled at an innocent individual.

    On top of that you have “The Mob” Wilfully ignorant, hate filled people, with no idea of the real hurt they are causing. Playing a “game” with silly fictional names and on line persona. Gathering in obscenely hateful, ignorant and uninformed forums like JQ and Leatherman. Posting libellous and hate filled speculative drivel. Downplaying, and even denying the overwhelming evidence and facts of the case, and instead preferring to opine based on delusionally imagined details and scenarios they make up as to what perhaps, could have happened.

    There are an awful lot of tragedies and crimes involved here. The one thing that is clearly NOT a crime is the shooting of TM by GZ. There is overwhelming evidence that that was self defence.

    The crimes here are many… The perps who deserve to be punished range from State Politicians, through Scheme Team participants, and all the way down to pathetic hate filled forum posters.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Excellent…

      Like

      • ottawa925 says:

        I suppose I can only agree in that someone had to die, however, when one sucker punches you, then gets on top of you and begins to beat you senseless, and then takes your head and begins to slam it into cement over and over again, that’s where the “tragedy” part to me is not acceptable – not for TM anyway. Granted it is more ppl, but that would be like calling the two reporters being attacked a tragedy. No, to me it was a violent act by TM, and GZ had no other recourse to save his life or to end up with life altering injuries but to shoot TM, a person who was sitting on top of him, beating him, and going for his gun. The only tragedy is that TM did not have the common sense to act appropriately and through his own actions he ended up dead. I shudder to think if GZ did not have a gun and was in same situation? I think GZ would have either been killed, seriously injured, cause it was obvious he could not fight off TM, and TM would have been the one to hire a defense attorney. He most likely would not be charged as an adult, and get a slap on the hand and let loose to once again go and reek havoc on someone else. That would have pumped him up for the next one. The only tragedy is that GZ trying to watch over his neighborhood, and who called police immediately, stayed on the phone with police, then the minute he hung up with police was attacked from behind by a thug, brutally beating, and then is made out to be the bad guy, and has his life changed forever for trying to do the right thing, and then because the police are as slow as snail mail, ended up having to defend his life and now a whole bunch of ppl want to see him lynched. Now THAT is a tragedy.

        Like

        • jello333 says:

          Yeah I agree. But I don’t think what Rumpole is saying is really much different than yours.

          Like

          • rumpole2 says:

            By “tragedy” is simply mean the loss of a human life. A life that had potential still.
            Whatever circumstances and faults on TM’s part at the time I am not denying.

            Like

          • rumpole2 says:

            Traybots have called for George to be locked up, brutalised, raped and even killed in prison. They believe he deserves to suffer and die. Traybots are vile excuses for people because of that.
            In my view, whatever Trayvon and everybody else did leading up to 26th Feb.. it did not warrant TM dying. I don’t think Trayvon “deserved to die” in that sense. It was a tragedy that he died, though in the circumstances he brought it on himself by attacking GZ.

            Like

            • jello333 says:

              Absolutely. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone here say Trayvon “deserved to die”, and yet that’s an accusation the Haterz claim all the time. Saying that George was totally justified in shooting, and that Trayvon completely brought it on himself is NOT the same as saying someone “deserved to die”. For me, that phrase is reserved only for the lowest of the low, for a person who has no redeeming qualities, and is just gonna make the world a worse place the longer he, himself, is alive. But those types of people are few and far between. Trayvon was clearly not one of them, no matter how horribly he acted toward George that night, or what he may have done to a bus driver, or what drugs he might have taken, etc. So the next time those people wanna start throwing accusations around, maybe they should check out this comment, and your comment, and almost any other thoughtful comment people post on here. And more than that, maybe they should LOOK IN A MIRROR… that way they’ll see who the REAL hateful, uncaring people are!

              Like

              • ottawa925 says:

                I guess I have to look in that mirror and be truthful. Somebody ask me if GZ should have shot Trayvon, I’m gonna answer like Gene Hackman in Crimson Tide, “a simple Yes, Sir, drop that MFkr …. Twice”. The kid in life tried to kill GZ and now in death the kid’s family is ruining the man’s life. I have no feeling for TM whatsoever. NONE. I doubt very seriously he would have amounted to anything and would have ended up either in prison or dead. The writing was on the wall … it was only a matter of time for him. I respect you both … jello and rupole2, and I’m glad you have it in your heart to say what you have said. I’m proud of you, and maybe less proud of me, but I’m powerless in trying to go against my gut … and my gut says the kid would have murdered GZ if GZ hadn’t had the presence of mind while being beaten to defend himself. What is a “tragedy” is how TM’s parents were too concerned with their own lives, lap dances and all, instead of concentrating on putting their son on the right road. That is a tragedy. But that’s ON THEM. No one else. I’m not an uncaring person … and I think you know that, but on this one we separate. I can guarantee you that if GZ would have been killed, it would have been a flash in the pan story, over and done, and Trayvon would be on some kind of probation, and nobody would be talking about GZ. Have you ever seen them just once denounce and flood the media with outrage on a black on white crime? I’m cold as ice, but I’m old and have heard and read too many of these stories over the years, and I don’t apologize for the way I feel.

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  No, I understand what you’re saying, and it’s hard NOT to be a little “cold” about things, considering what’s been happening recently. I feel it too sometimes, but I try not to show it. I wouldn’t agree with every single word you said, but I’d agree with most of it. I don’t think we’re as far apart as you might believe. I just think maybe we’re not on the same wavelength regarding what “deserved to die” means.

                  Here, rather than try to explain my feelings, let me just respond to what you said here: “My gut says the kid would have murdered GZ if GZ hadn’t had the presence of mind while being beaten to defend himself.” I agree completely. I’ve said many times here that had George not fired the shot when he did, then even though Trayvon may not have died, he would probably right now be on trial for AT A MINIMUM aggravated battery, or possibly even murder. And so as far as I’m concerned, knowing what we know now, I’m GLAD that George fired. Not because it killed Trayvon, but because it likely SAVED George. I’m not happy ANYONE died that night, but it would have been much, much worse if it had been George. I know this will be taken out of context by the JQers and others, but I’ll say it anyway: If someone HAD to die that night, I’m very, very glad it was not George. Period. So if the definition of “deserved to die” is along the lines of what I just described, then maybe that’s what I’m saying. But I just never thought that’s what the phrase meant.

                  Like

            • libby says:

              We all die. how we live determines how we die.

              Like

    • gztruthandjustice says:

      Bravo, Bravo! So excellently put and eloquently stated. Great post, sir. I may have to do a tribute to this for you.

      Like

    • laura says:

      Absolutely true.

      Like

    • libby says:

      YUP, YUP, YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      .
      AND they want us to be nice as they do as this crap (forget dat noise).

      Like

  15. diwataman says:

    Hey, I think I actually found George’s truck. Here’s a video I made real quick of it. It’s unfortunate we don’t have a higher quality video to be sure but I think it’s likely it’s his.

    Like

    • ftsk420 says:

      It’s possible but didn’t his wife come and pick it up do we know when she did that.

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        Ay I don’t know, lol I just put out there what I think. Just a bit after 7:30 is when they said on the police radio call’s that they had some family showing up and they transported George to the station. I don’t recall where the thing about Shelly taking the car home came from. I know they also ran a plate sometime after 8:30 that came back as Zimmerman.

        Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          ‘I know they also ran a plate sometime after 8:30 that came back as Zimmerman.’

          How do you know?

          At TalkLeft we have been on the lookout for that info for a long time.

          We know from the discovery that Shellie and Mark Osterman came to SPD to take Zimmerman home. And we know Zimmerman asked W-13 to call his wife, so he could have told her the general area to look for the truck.

          I had been assuming Shellie got the truck because of those facts, and because I took literally Zimmerman’s NEN statement that he was parked at the cut-through. I’ve just realized that I should have revisited that assumption, in the light of Zimmerman’s statements that he left the truck west of the cut-through.

          It may be that Osterman gave Shellie a lift, and they didn’t get the Ridgeline until the next day.

          There might be something on this in Osterman’s book, or his public statements.

          Like

    • AghastInFL says:

      Nice job D… I think you are right, the location is right, at 2x and 4x it certainly appears to be the front fender of a Honda; of course some might say since police were on scene it could be any vehicle… But I agree it looks like a Ridgeline.

      Like

      • ftsk420 says:

        I see an outline of a truck but no way to tell it’s a ridgeline.

        Like

        • AghastInFL says:

          I say so because of the strange angle rather than a flat line typical of a pickup truck bed… the Ridgeline has that characteristic.

          Like

          • ftsk420 says:

            There is a photo on the internet that shows 2 trucks one is a Ford the other a Nissan the Nissan was in that same location as the outlined truck in D-mans video.

            Like

            • AghastInFL says:

              not being argumentative, just chatting… can you point me to that picture? the Ford is usually seen South of the sidewalk cut-thru IIRC… the Nissan/other truck I thought was from the RVC side of the same cut-thru but then again I am working from memory not the actual photo.
              It could be anything and this is no point I am willing to fight for..or against, it is just a slow Sunday evening and Dman’s video piqued my interest.

              Like

              • ftsk420 says:

                To me the pic appears to be in the same spot as D-mans video only thing is D-man video appears to be a little further away.

                Like

                • AghastInFL says:

                  the video above is from the Fox report the night of the shooting, not sure of the day of the photo but it was some time after when they were photographing the scene and measuring I believe… also the vehicle in the video above appears to be facing the cut-thru and that we are looking at the front end of it, wheels turned.
                  So despite the coincidence of proximity I do not think they are the same vehicle. Still a big maybe, I should have written in my first comment “you may be right” rather than “I think you are right”. I still believe it is a great find on Dman’s part, I have looked at that video many times before without noticing the vehicle…. which is a nice segue for one of my favorite videos:

                  Like

                  • jello333 says:

                    Oh, that video is something else. ;)

                    Like

                  • AghastInFL says:

                    yes, it is a reminder of how easily we can become fixated on one single aspect albeit minutia, while ignoring all other. Perception.

                    Like

                  • diwataman says:

                    I’ve looked at it many times as well and never saw it until now. It was just kind of an accident anyway because I was looking at it again for a shot of that other truck, which is probably W20′s truck as it’s always parked there in like every photo and video, even google earth, and noticed this particular shot from that night was going straight down Twin Trees so I just decided to zoom in and see. Those wheels do look as though they are slightly turned but who knows, the quality is just too bad.

                    But I did get the correct number of passes and the other thing as well(don’t want to ruin it), lol.

                    Like

                • diwataman says:

                  Could be that one as well, too difficult to tell either way really. Could be the cockatoo’s truck though.

                  Like

    • arkansasmimi says:

      There def seems to be a veh. You can see the back end part of it. GOOD Eyes Dman! what is the rest of this video (which one)

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      Hmm… right about where he said he parked. But didn’t they say that Shellie took it a little after they took George away? Or is that just another unfounded rumor by the Bots?

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      And who is that guy? Yet another accomplice, perhaps?!!!!

      Like

      • nettles18 says:

        I think that guy is W13. He was described as an Asian man who brought a first aid kit and a walmart plastic bag to the scene to help. He also is the witness who took 3 photos with his iphone before Officer Smith came on scene.

        Like

    • rooferx says:

      I think that is Just “one of those vehicles” in a neighborhood that is always parked there. It is there in almost all of the pictures I have seen and in the re-enactment video as well.

      Like

    • sundance says:

      I thought y’all had already seen the picture of his truck that I posted months ago. ????

      Like

      • debfrmhell says:

        Can I see it? Is it his truck or a Honda screenshot? Curiosity Peaked… I wouldn’t have a clue where to search. TIA!

        Like

      • diwataman says:

        Well that would be awkward, lol. I don’t recall ever seeing this particular shot ever pointed out before.

        Like

      • MJW says:

        The truck from months ago wasn’t a Ridgeline. It was a regular pickup truck. The proportions were all wrong for a Ridgeline. Later on, video was posted, clearly showing the same, non-Ridegline, truck

        Like

        • diwataman says:

          That’s not the same truck. You can’t see that truck as it’s off to the left in the shot that I’ve shown in the video.

          I guess I’ll have to draw a map so people can grasp where the angle of the camera is pointing.

          Like

      • MJW says:

        The truck in question is here.
        Video showing the same truck at the 2:35 mark is here.

        Like

        • MJW says:

          Let me be clear that I’m talking about the truck from months ago, not the one DiwataMan mentioned today. (For some reason, the YouTube video DiwataMan posted freezes my computer, making the CPU usage 100%. I’ve only been able to watch it once, and then I couldn’t tell much.)

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            It does get confusing and look what I’ve done, lol, and made it even more confusing. It wasn’t my intention of course.

            But yes I agree, the truck that can be clearly seen in what you linked and the video below is probably W20′s truck as it always seems to be parked there in front of his house in nearly every video and photo of that area and even Google Earth.

            @0:39

            Like

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      OK, I have a HUGE problem if that IS George’s truck. In his walkthrough and statements to police he said that he parked on TTL, facing EAST, with his headlights pointing down the sidewalk, towards the dogwalk. If the video you show was taken from a viewpoint on RVC,facing WEST, and down the sidewalk towards George’s truck, then the dogwalk would branch off to the LEFT. BUT, in the video, there is a sidewalk that branches to the RIGHT. There is no sidewalk that would branch to the RIGHT, if the video is taken from RVC, pointing WEST towards TTL.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Are you sure? When I first saw the pic, it looked wrong to me too. But then I looked at the Google map of the neighborhood again, and realized the pic must have been taken from the east end of the top-of-the-T sidewalk. And yeah, right there there’s a sidewalk going off to the right; and from this vantage point you can’t see the sidewalk running N-S between the rows of buildings (which would be forward and to the left of where the pic was taken).

        Like

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        Oooops. Nevermind. I just found a “miscellaneous” crme scene photo taken from almost the exact same spot where the Fox video camera was placed to take THAT video. I do believe you have it, D-Man. Ohhh the ignominy…

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Oh, and see that guy? I think he’s standing right near the “doggie station”, which I think is that green thing. And he’s looking toward the south, down that central sidewalk. I think that’s what I’m seeing, anyway.

        Like

  16. Dr. Bogus Pachysandra says:

    At 17 years of age, the “child” could have enlisted in the Armed Forces. Would have required parental permission though. At 18, no permission needed. “Child,,,, my A__!

    Like

    • Lou says:

      I was 17 when I enlisted. I became a man at 13 as part of my Bar Mitzvah. wonder if Trayvon could read English well, let alone Hebrew.

      Like

    • howie says:

      The “Ozzie and Harriet” Juvenile Justice system. Is outdated and is being taken advantage by Black Gangs.

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      For ANY 17-yr-old of average intelligence and social skills, he/she is NOT a “child”. And I think almost any 17-yr-old would be INSULTED to be called a “child”.

      Like

      • Lou says:

        he’s only a child for the purpose for victim status. I’m sure there are many 17 year olds die fighting for our country. the bottom line is he couldn’t keep his hands to himself. I’d assume Tracy didn’t correct his misbehavior.

        Like

    • yankeeintx says:

      He would probably have touble getting accepted. Even the military has standards. Without a diploma, or a GED, I doubt he would pass the entrance exams. Plus, he would be required to pass a drug screen too.

      Like

      • Dr. Bogus Pachysandra says:

        “Without a diploma, or a GED, I doubt he would pass the entrance exams. Plus, he would be required to pass a drug screen too.”

        Well,,,, true. But that’s not the point I was trying to make. My point was simply that a 17 year old male is not a “child.”

        Like

  17. murderbythebook says:

    Trayvon was no child. He was as big as he was ever going to be. He would have probably put on more weight as he aged, but that’s about it. I don’t believe his brain or common sense had matured as fast as his body. He still had a thug mentality that goes on with teens in the hood.

    Like

  18. bruce101 says:

    trayvon was casing homes looking for some thing he and his father could steal.

    Like

    • hooson1st says:

      And you base that on?

      Like

      • Lou says:

        we can only assume, but knowing Trayvon was caught with jewelery and a burglary tool, we can assume he was more likely than not especially because he was seen as suspicious by George.

        Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          The jewelry was never proven to be stolen. A screwdriver has many uses.

          There is no real evidence for Martin being a burglar. There seems to be good evidence for him being a drug dealer. I think it’s more likely Martin got the jewelry in trade than that he stole it himself.

          Like

          • jello333 says:

            Yeah, don’t know if the jewelry was stolen by Trayvon, or by someone else and then given/traded to Trayvon. But I think it’s very likely it was, at a minimum, “possession of stolen property”. (And how big a deal THAT is, is for people to decide on their own.) As for the screwdriver, it never did strike me as something used to burglarize houses, or even cars. Maybe it wasn’t used for ANYTHING illegal…. but it just always seemed to me something more useful for like school lockers. Or maybe not. I assume we’ll learn more as this goes along.

            Like

          • LittleLaughter says:

            Certainly, the jewelrey did not belong to him. I think you can say that is a given. And I doubt it was given to him, even for a drug trade. From the list, it would be worth quite a bit of money. I don’t know if Trayvon was a dealer, but I kind of doubt that he was a big time dealer, having enough product to bring in that kind of trade. That’s just my opinion. I also find the scredriver an odd thing for him to have in his back pack. What would your high school student need with a screwdriver? Couple it with women’s jewelry, and it is very suspicious. If I found all of those items in my son’s possesion, I’d have some serious questions for him.

            Like

            • dmoseylou says:

              Several years ago, I awoke at 2:19 am to my house alarm sirens. Long story short, the cops found my potting shed door pried open; fresh tool marks were obvious. Simple door-knob lock—nothing worth stealing, just garden gloves, fertilizer, watering can, etc.
              One cop told me they likely used a big-azz flat-blade screwdriver…in, in a second. I asked how did he know that, and he said the gouge marks were right; and too big, and too deep for a pocket-knife. THAT is the reason I always thought TM’s screwdriver was verrrrry suspicious. Yeah, “someone” gave him the jewelry. So why the big-azz screwdriver…for a SCHOOL locker? Riiigght….

              Like

              • dmoseylou says:

                Also, the jewelry was confiscated by the M-D school police officer. Were descriptions and photos of those items sent to LEO OUTSIDE of Miami-Dade, as in “state-wide” before / after learning TM was shot in Sanford—in a community that had been plagued by break-ins and robberies? Hmmm….

                Like

          • libby says:

            Yeah, screwdrivers make GREAT weapons, also.
            the jewlery wasnt looked into very closely (And they have yet to show that they did any due diligence to see if the jewlery was stolen outside the miami area-like sanford, for example)

            Like

          • AghastInFL says:

            I believe the school officer had a reason to characterize the “large screwdriver” as a “burglary tool” perhaps it was ground down to a fine point, hooked or some other alteration… but something changed the nature of the tool from its intended purpose in a noteworthy way.

            Like

    • ejarra says:

      It’s blatant, unsubstantiated statements like that, without any links to back it up; is what makes us here look bad and give ammo to JQ and the rest of the Trayvonistas. Please refrain without proof. Besides his father was out partying that night.

      Like

      • rumpole2 says:

        That is the point of the post I think.

        Like

        • ejarra says:

          Even of that were true and it was meant to be sarcastic, it didn’t come across that way. Maybe a wink would have helped, but I think he was serious.

          Like

      • jello333 says:

        See? This place is pretty good at self-policing. I’ve seen this many times here: Someone makes an unsubstantiated, off-the-wall claim, and it’s usually immediately called out. But even so, later on we get people on other sites going, “Oooh! Oooh! Look at this comment!”…. and totally ignoring the fact that there were other comments CALLING OUT that original comment, in real-time. You watch, we’ll see a screen shot of that first comment on JQ or Twitter, and nothing about the later ones. ;)

        Like

      • hooson1st says:

        well said

        Like

  19. huntnfishgirl says:

    When I had shared custody of my kids when they were in high school, they would post messages on Facebook to their friends that were at my house for the weekend. Ha anyone made any connections with any of TM’s FB posting history or his friends, of being with dad or at dads or dads girlfriend or that part of town and comparing that to GZs neighborhood or surrounding neighborhoods for unsolved breakins with the timeframes matching or TMs fingerprints? How about any other suspicious calls to police when he said himself he was in the area?

    Take a look at some of the videos I found that explain the victimization of TM and persecution of GZ.

    The titles and contents of the videos are the words of 5723michael on You Tube.. this is man who sees the whole picture and tells it like it is. He has tons of videos worth watching and sharing. He has the ability to educate the ignorant. Bless him.

    Trayvon Martin, goodies and sagging jeans:

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=kUpPqmFzkEM

    What does the white man owe blacks?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RdxQbBk4huA&feature=relmfu

    Blaming Whitey:

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlT5UjAwxtg&feature=relmfu

    Like

  20. huntnfishgirl says:

    Lastly, my prayers are with the Zimmerman’s. May justice be on your side when all the evidence is presented.

    What has happened to GZ and his family is appalling. That fact that The President of The United States jumped in and ran his mouth for support of such a racist hate attack doesn’t surprise me. He’s good at never letting a tragedy go to waste. Afterall, it’s probably the only thing he did for the African American race in four years, besides the GPS embedded Obamaphone. HA! All he needed to do to get their votes for the upcoming election. He’s partially at fault for the terror GZ has gone through. Makes me sick. He did nothing to neutralize the situation and everything to compound and instigate the civil unrest that has and will take place regardless of what the justice system decides once all the actual evidence is presented and considered.

    Like

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