01-21 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
damage.
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

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402 Responses to 01-21 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    Today…..
    “I believe…….”

    You would think that since they post with somebody who “believes” that they can hear 4 accomplices and a cockatoo, the posters at JQ might realise that what they “believe” counts for nought if it is based on nothing more than delusion and hope.

    They often state what they “believe” as if it were then fact.

    See things as fact because they “believe” it, rather than looking at facts before deciding what to believe.

    Random Topics
    http://www.randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=20102#p20102

      • Lou says:

        I’ve never liked the Monkees, but after watching their videos I’m starting to. I think I like their style. I remember having a haircut like that. LOL

        • rumpole2 says:

          It was not exactly “deep” music. To a large extent manufactured. The group brought together just for the TV show, songs written for them by professional song writers.
          But the guys had some musical talent, and the TV show was appealing to us young teens at the time. The songs and clips have nostalgic value for me.

        • jello333 says:

          A lot of people think of the Monkees as some no-talent, “invented/created” group, like some of the “boy bands” of recent years. And at first, they really were more of a gimmick group than anything else. But they each had some natural talent they came in with. And eventually, they were allowed to show it off. Their last couple albums showed that they really DID have some talent. And one song in particular — Randy Scouse Git — makes it real hard to think of them as just a stupid little teeny bopper band. That song is VERY impressive.

      • janc1955 says:

        My first “rock” concert was the Monkees. I was 12 and can still remember what I wore. I was desperately in love with Davy Jones for years. RIP, Davy.

    • jello333 says:

      After ALL this time, these people still know very little about the actual evidence of this case. Just… wow.

      Alright JQers: Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to research and analyze the evidence so-far released in this case, and to do so before we reach the anniversary of the shooting.

      • I dont need no ebidence. He should have stah in his car lik he wuz told to.

        • Lou says:

          it’s funny how defiant AA’s are to authority, and now they are so complaint to listening to a NEN dispatcher, as if he were God.

          • mung says:

            And how Trayvon would have stopped beating George if he told him that he was part of the NWA.

            • howie says:

              The T-con failed to obey DD when she tole him to run to his daddy’s house. This would have been avoided if he had obeyed her clear instructions. She has just as much controlling authority as the NEN operator.

              • mung says:

                Actually a lot more if she really is the girlfriend. I am pretty sure George wasn’t getting any from the NEN operator :)

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  I’m sure Dee Dee wasn’t giving it up. They were in puppy love, remember? It would be racist to think she isn’t a virgin.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Heh, yeah, I usually forget to mention that when I list the things that Trayvon would hate about the way he’s portrayed by his “supporters”. Yeah… “puppy love”. Pretty gag-worthy.

                • howie says:

                  Her orders were much clearer than the NEN operator. Run to your daddy’s house. If he had done so then called the po-po the incident would have been avoided. He profiled the innocent Zimmerman as a crazy old white dude.

          • I don’t see it as a race thing, but a culture thing. The color of ones skin does not create this victim mentality, the upbringing does.

            • mung says:

              This is very true. The ghetto culture is amazing. The lack of any respect or morals is crazy. What is very interesting is that many of these people go to church on Sunday and claim to be Christians and by Sunday afternoon are doing everything they were told not to do at church.

              I was watching TruTV last night, and while I know that a lot of the shows are scripted, some of the actions of the people are insane. Hardcore Pawn gives a really good look at the mentality of the subculture in Detroit.

              • hooson1st says:

                Mung:

                i suspect that the churchgoers, by and large, will not be found among lawbreakers.

                • mung says:

                  I wish that were true. I can tell you even in different cultures that those who claim to be Christians are some of the most vile people you would ever meet.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    I am sure that is true in some cases, but the logical fallacy applies here; what is true of the individual, is not necessarily true of the whole.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Sybrina and Tracey say they are Christians.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    Agreed. “Sybrina and Tracey say they are Christians.”

                    How does that relate to the assertion of lawbreaking?

                • mcfyre2012 says:

                  “i suspect that the churchgoers, by and large, will not be found among lawbreakers.” of the population, wouldn’t make up more than half of the incarcerated population (52%).

                  If that was true, then black Americans, who are only 13.6% of the population, wouldn’t comprise more than half of the incarcerated population (52%) and commit half of all violent crimes and murders in America.

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  ‘i suspect that the churchgoers, by and large, will not be found among lawbreakers.’

                  Mark 2:17

    • eastern2western says:

      When I was a kid, I believed I was adopted by my parents and my real parents are rich people who own the toy stores. Then I woke up. wow, those kids could believe in what ever they want, but the law is the law.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      …it is not a SYG case and he lost his right to self defense when he left his vehicle (chasing) after loading his weapon.

      Special prize for this level of daftness:

      …it is not a SYG case…

      True, indeed. A decision to retreat requires the opportunity to retreat. SYG does not apply when the assailant has the victim pinned to the ground, actively preventing the victim from getting up and attempting to escape. This is a simple, straight-forward, self-defense case.

      …and he lost his right to self defense when he left his vehicle (chasing)…

      First: getting out of one’s vehicle is not an inherently illegal act.

      Second, mere pursuit of someone is not an inherently illegal act.

      Third, even actual pursuit does not meet the statutory standard of causing reasonable fear of imminent risk to life or bodily harm that might otherwise justify Martin’s use of force against Zimmerman. If Martin were alive, and told police that he attacked Zimmerman out of fear, because Zimmerman was “chasing” him, Martin would have been arrested for felony aggravated battery.

      Fourth, the State is already on record, in court, stating that they do not have any evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony that he was attempting only to maintain visual contact with Martin, and after the NEN operator said, “we don’t actually need you to [follow Martin]“, Zimmerman went far enough to see a street sign, and then turned and headed back to his car.

      …after loading his weapon…

      Zimmerman was a legal concealed-carry permit holder, and was legally justified to carry a loaded weapon. Legally concealed-carrying a loaded firearm does not deprive one of the statutory right to self-defense, including the statutory right to use lethal force in self-defense.

      Also: if this quote is implying that Zimmerman can be heard loading his weapon on the NEN call, then we’re dealing with someone completely ignorant of firearms, and the load capacity of most semi-automatic pistols. Zimmerman’s firearm had a 7-round magazine, and he was carrying in a standard, 7+1 load out, meaning that he loaded 7 rounds in the magazine, put the magazine in the gun, loaded a round in the chamber (leaving 6 in the magazine), removed the magazine, placed an additional round in the magazine (for a total of 7 rounds in the magazine), and then re-inserted the magazine. Thus, Zimmerman had 7 rounds in the magazine, and 1 round in the chamber.

      Police reports clearly indicate that, at the scene, one discharged round was found at the scene, and that the gun had 1 round in the chamber, and six rounds in the magazine. Thus, all rounds were accounted for.

      Why is this important? Well, for the idiots who claim that they hear Zimmerman rack the slide of his gun on the NEN call, it pretty much proves their ignorance of firearms. If Zimmerman had racked his slide, the action would have *ejected the round in the chamber*. (That’s why real gun owners in the real world don’t go around racking their slides like Vin Diesel in some Hollywood shoot-out movie.)

      Thus, instead of 8 rounds total in the gun (1 in the chamber, 7 in the magazine), he would have been left with only 7 rounds (1 in the chamber, 6 in the magazine). Thus, in order for police to have documented 6 rounds in the magazine, one in the chamber, and one spent round recovered, Zimmerman would have had to *reload the ejected round back into the magazine*. That would have required two hands – recover ejected round, remove magazine, hold magazine with one hand while inserting the round with the other, re-insert magazine – all while holding his cell phone, while talking to the NEN operator. And he would have had to do so without the sound of any of that activity being captured on the NEN call recording.

      These ignorant fools propose a physical impossibility.

      • mung says:

        Just to confirm something, in case it comes up. While you can get an 8 round clip or an extension for the PF-9, the clip in evidence is a standard 7 round clip.

      • howie says:

        All these details are interesting. But if this ever got to a trial the cross and direct of DD will be an all time classic. I have thought about it in a trial setting and as serious as this is could not help laughing.

        • rumpole2 says:

          Yes.
          I do hope we get to see/hear a proper interview of DeeDee :D
          A laugh a minute.
          It would be extremely selfish to hope for a trial just to see that…. I hope for George’s sake it never gets that far… so perhaps just a video taped deposition of DeeDee??

        • hooson1st says:

          Nothing DeeDee has said hurts GZ. (Unless you accept her characterizations on matters she could not know, and even then those are contradicted by facts on the ground). What she may say under cross-examination can only hurt the prosecution’s case.

      • Knuckledraggingwino says:

        Thnx for reminding people that the load out of the gun precludes GZ “racking the slide” to chamber a round as he exited his vehicle.

        This point is critical because the Traybots were forced to acknowledge that TM physically assaulted GZ. Parks actually acknowledged this when he suggested the scenario of GZ pursuing TM with gun drawn. If true, this would have given TM legal justification to assault GZ. The problem is thatbthe Double Dee Dees’ statements made no mention of TM describing the creepy white guy having a gun. Parks impeached Crump’s star witness LOL.

      • Sayers says:

        George lived on Retreat View Circle.. How odd that he would have to go and look at the name of the street.

        • mung says:

          Because he was not on his street and was at the cut through so he was not sure exactly where to tell the police to meet him. He was also under stress at that moment. I know I have had moments where I know I know information but it doesn’t come out of my brain when I need it. If you actually hear the NEN call and his confusion of where to tell them to meet him, it isn’t odd at all.

        • libby says:

          Trayvon’s dad said trayvon had been punished (the school had suspended trayvon). If trayvon had actually been punished as his daddy lied, he wouldnt be out roaming the streets and he would still be alive).
          What kind of parent leaves their kid all alone all weekend without food or drink in a dangerous neighbrohodd where he doesnt know anyone?
          Ooops, the lies the martins/fultons told are adding up (and though the lamestream media doesnt look closely at their lies, not all of us belive their most creative but obviously fabricated lies).

        • JB from SoCal says:

          Sayers says:
          “George lived on Retreat View Circle.. How odd that he would have to go and look at the name of the street.”

          Yes, would be odd, if indeed true. But he was looking for a NUMBER, an actual house address to give the NEN dispatcher. Nothing odd about that, n’est-ce pas? You can’t possibly know the house numbers of all the residences of all the streets in the neighborhood where you live. Wouldn’t want police (or fire or emergency) to come to 1532 when you really meant 1352 because you were “slightly off.” Something about “Life or Death” situations would seem to dictate a precise street address: You know, “Life,” or on the other hand, “Death.”

          All of which, of course, is exactly and totally meaningless as to whether George Zimmerman was defending himself against Felony aggravated assault and battery being committed on him by the late Trayvon Martin, AKA the deceased.

          Really should pick up your game — time’s a’wastin’ . . .

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            JB from SoCal:

            ‘But he was looking for a NUMBER, an actual house address . . .’

            Depends on which version of his story you believe.

            • treewig says:

              IT seems clear he was looking for both. He didn’t know the name of TTL, so if he was looking for an address to help police locate him, he would have had to find both a street name and house number. Once going to RVC which he knew the name of, he would only have been seeking a house number.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                treewig:

                ‘Once going to RVC which he knew the name of, he would only have been seeking a house number.’

                2/26-1, 20:56-21:13

                Zimmerman: And, so I walked straight through, to see if there was a street sign, that I could tell dispatch where I lost sight of him at. And when I walked back, that’s when he came out of the darkness. And I guess he was, upset that I, called the police.

                2/26-2, 4:29-5:04

                Zimmerman: So I walked through the dog walk, to see if there was a sign here, or an address that I could make out easier.

                Singleton: OK. And then what happens?

                Zimmerman: The dispatcher asked me if I’m out of my car. And I said “Yes.” And they said “Do you know what direction he went in?” I said “No.” And they said “Are you following him?” I said, “I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know where he went.”

                Singleton: OK. But you continue straight on the sidewalk –

                Zimmerman: Yes ma’am.

                Singleton: – over to this side? OK.

                Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am. All the way through.

                Singleton: And then what happens when you get here? You decide that, you still don’t know whether, where you’re at?

                Zimmerman: I still didn’t know where I was at, but I was able to give the dispatcher a description from the clubhouse.

                Audio

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  Why is this important? How does it materially impact the events of that evening, or the criminal liability of Zimmerman?

                  • nomatter_nevermind says:

                    Chip Bennett

                    ‘How does it materially impact the events of that evening’

                    It doesn’t, absent a time loop.

                    ‘or the criminal liability of Zimmerman?’

                    It will be one of many things for the triers of fact to consider. How much weight to give it will be up to them.

                    Zimmerman clearly does not care to give us a straight story about what happened that night. That will leave judge and jury seeking elsewhere for the truth. In itself, it is evidence for consciousness of guilt.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    What does this mean?

                    Zimmerman clearly does not care to give us a straight story about what happened that night.

                  • jello333 says:

                    “Zimmerman clearly does not care to give us a straight story about what happened that night.”

                    WHAT ON EARTH?! In my comment just before this one, I suggested that you were probably just playing devil’s advocate. But now I’m not so sure. How can you say that, after everything we (including YOU) know about this case, and know about what happened to George? Considering what he had been through, physically, emotionally, legally, and I’m sure “morally” (being forced to take a life)… how in the world can he be expected to give a perfectly “straight story”? Have you not heard the stories several people, right here on this website, have described about fights, or other traumatic incidents, they’ve been involved in during their lives? And how what they THINK they recall happening and what they find out later ACTUALLY happened are often quite different? And NONE of these people were involved in an incident that led to death?

                    Wow, I just don’t know what to say. You really believe that the inconsistencies in George’s statements are “evidence for consciousness of guilt”? Seriously?

                  • JB from SoCal says:

                    Exactly. “Why is this important?”
                    *
                    This [topic] is the type of Obsession With Detail that seems to be characteristic of the conversation these days at TalkLeft. Unfortunately, this [topic] is in the category of the Meaningless type of detail that can go on for page after page. I have great respect for the owner, Jeralyn Merritt, and she runs a well-disciplined website; sometimes, though, discussion there — at times brilliantly logical — can get ‘way too involved in academic nitpicking. Speaking for myself, I go there several times a day expecting cogent and meaningful dialogue, but most often lately come away disappointed. On the rare occasion when Ms. Merritt posts, it has real impact.

                    Ironic, isn’t it: the top two Zimmerman-Martin blogsites, with each “owner” at politically polar opposites, 180 degrees out. Must be a Righteous Cause that brings us together!

                  • JB from SoCal says:

                    from our dear NM_NM:
                    “Zimmerman clearly does not care to give us a straight story about what happened that night. That will leave judge and jury seeking elsewhere for the truth. In itself, it is evidence for consciousness of guilt.”

                    More TalkLeft navelgazing: Pure. Speculative. Nonsense.
                    But thank you for participating.

                  • howie says:

                    Knock out Serino. Knock out the statements procured by Serino. Serino would have to be a witness for the state to proceed.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Thanks. I’ve been trying not to question what NoMatter is up to. I’m pretty sure he’s just playing devil’s advocate, and keeping us on our toes. I hope that’s all it is, anyway. Because I sure don’t wanna believe that any supporters of George would SERIOUSLY be questioning stuff like this. I mean little inconsistencies here and there, ESPECIALLY after the physical and emotional trauma George had just been through. He can NOT, simply NOT be expected to keep every bit of his story 100% consistent from one telling to the next. It would be far more suspicious if he DID.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    NM_NM’s scrutiny is welcomed.

                    Whatever negative connotation that may be drawn from non-material inconsistencies in GZ’s statements (something that routinely happens in investigations) is far outweighed by his behavior and cooperation with the authorities without assistance of counsel.

                    His cooperation with the authorities from the moment of contact with them bespeaks of an honest recounting of events and a certain amount of naivete on his part.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, I was fine with NoMatter’s “skepticism”, and his asking questions. But that was before he said something like “Zimmerman clearly doesn’t want to give us a straight story” and that he “shows consciousness of guilt”. What is THAT all about? That goes far, far beyond simple skepticism, and playing devil’s advocate. What’s going on?

          • howie says:

            I think he already tole them. Retreat View Circle.

  2. arkansasmimi says:

    Sending heartfelt prayers and wishes for an awesome day to Geo, Shellie and their families and friends. GOD IS GOOD!! All the time, even when we think different. Hugs to my fellow Treepers too!!!

  3. brutalhonesty says:

    so some fake black educated lawyer on jftm was telling me how discovery and pretrial are over and all the facts are agreed to by the pros, def, and judge…..and that I am wrong that gz was told we dont need, which isnt an order..after he had already exited the truck…and that my suggestion that an order and then exiting the truck had never even happened was me denying the NEM call audio exists.
    you really can not debate willful ignorance and there is no way these people will accept an acquital.

    • libby says:

      Yeah, my neighbor told me the trial started months ago (he was the one who told me about this fiasco back when it started)…The case is good to enflame the passions and hate of AA community towards whites especially since they know so little about the actual case itself

    • brutalhonesty says:

      just want to add a qualifier in there for the race baiters….i dont care shes black….she made it her mission to tell me she is black, it mattered to her that shes black. and it mattered to her that I needed to be told.

  4. arkansasmimi says:

    Betcha TrayFam ticked off they arent in DC, cause IF Obumma had a son…. but fear not Nasty Nat is
    ******
    Natalie Jackson‏@NatJackEsq 8 hrs ago
    In DC for the Presidential Inauguration…#soproud

    • libby says:

      The fact that trayparasites are no longer supported by the prez says something. Even the prez doesnt want to be seen publicly supporting those negligent liars.

      • hooson1st says:

        libby:

        Respectfully, how does one know that the “trayparasites are no longer supported by the prez”?

        • libby says:

          The FACT that the president is no longer making public pronouncements of solidarity with trayvon speak volumes to me. Did you ever witness the president showing solidarity with trayvon and his lying negligent parents? I saw the pres claim trayvon would look like his son (as if that meant children of other ethnicities were of lesser import than those who appeared like the president).
          This was kind of like the Holder’s “My people” comment. Federal elected leaders are supposed to represent all of us, not just those that look like them. If any white seeming person ever said anything like holder or obama they would be called racist. Whites are not allowed to talk about our people at all without being called racist.
          Respectfully, what forms of black racism actually bother you or what forms of black racism are you willing to speak out against?
          As a reformed liberal, I am very familiar with how open some people are to black racism, sexism directed at men, and heterophobia (the fear and hatred or contempt of straight people).
          The pres might still be helping those trayvon family behind the scenes, but I think his public stance is indicative of his private actions.
          I still recall vividly the time his buddy was arrested in Cambridge, Mass. I grew up in new England and spent many years living in the Boston area.
          While Boston cops might have been known for their racism, Cambridge and everything Cambridge is about as liberal as one can get. Let us forget about the abolition movement and its effect on the legality of the slave trade for a minute and pretend Cambridge, Mass is some kind of KKK strognhold rather than a major contributor to liberalism in this country for centuries.
          This was kind of like when they pretended sanford was some place where there were no blacks or minorities on the police force when in fact, it is about as diverse as any in the country if not the world.
          The media said that that cop had come from Brandeis U (another incredibly liberal outpost in the area). The media claims this cop comes from Brandies (an incredibly liberal university) and goes to work in the most liberal city locally, but they think he is a secret racist. And all the while the media pretends blacks cant be racist.
          I dont pretend that blacks cant be racist.
          I dont pretend that black racism is cute or welcome or any of that garbage.
          And in the cambridge cop versus Obama buddy scenario, Obama chose his racist buddy over the cop right off the bat (Obama doesnt take the time to hear the whole story and jumps in BEFORE the facts are mostly known and inserts his foot in his mouth cuz he assumes like most have been taught that only whites can be racist and that black racism is both cute and understandable.
          Not always, but often you sound like a trayvon supporter (maybe a fairly neutral one) and I think this is a good thing much of the time. trayvon deserves support, too (he also deserved parents that parented). I pray for trayvon that God can forgive him (it isnt George’s fault trayvon was raised with parents who didnt parent).
          In my book, I support both GZ and TM, but I support GZ far more than Trayvon.
          On that fateful evening, though trayvon had no role models anywhere in his life when and where he needed it, George Zimmerman was out protecting his neighborhood and his neighbors (at the risk of his very life).
          In the these situations, Obama is supposed to represent us all, but instead he sounds like he represents only some people (he acted as if only trayvon and the college prof had any rights just like he acted as if only the cambridge cop and George Zimmerman had any responsibilities).

          • hooson1st says:

            Libby:

            I think that the president’s comment on GZ/TM tragedy was far more measured if you read the entire context. It seems that he and/or his staff learned a little bit from the Professor Gates mess up in Cambridge Massachusetts.

            In the Gates matter the president criticized the police handling before the facts were in.

            In the GZ/TM he did make the observation that if he had a son, that son would look like Trayvon. The press ran with that. But the entire statement was appropriately cautious.

            I did not take his statement to mean that he was on one side or the other. His lack of comment on this case since then indicates nothing.

            • libby says:

              I think even the president has learned very slowly not to be rthe race baiter in chief. of course, his silence means nothing where he used to open his mouth and insert foot.
              to you it means nothing and to me it means everything. I think we can respectfully disagree. hope your day is bright

    • howie says:

      Me too. Blacks are no longer victims. She can now get a real job.

      • libby says:

        Black shall always be victims so they can always have excuses for their failures (some black will always succeed and they shall be labeled sell outs and uncle toms cuz they dare to work hard instead of harboring perpetual grievances

  5. arkansasmimi says:

    Sometimes the bad things that happen in our lives put us directly in the path of the best things that will ever happen to us…..

  6. eastern2western says:

    just finished listening to cutcher’s interview and it is obvious that she was influenced by the media because the word kid seem to never left her mouth. Last time I checked 6’3” is anything but a kid’s proportion. In addition, she some how knew it was a kid lying on the ground amazes me because trayvon’s frame was not exactly child size. It is strange that she said she never heard anything, but she was sure that there was not any struggles.

    • eastern2western says:

      the word scrawny also was her description for trayvon, but 160 lb for a 6’3″ frame is actually decent weight.

      • libby says:

        And her testimony in whole is why she is the least credible of all the witnesses (her massive contradictions are gonna impeach her testimony with the jury i imagine)

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          I don’t think Cutcher or Mora will testify. They don’t have much to say that helps the prosecution, even if they are believed. Their dishonesty is so transparent, and so great, that calling them would damage the prosecutors’ own credibility.

          The very presence of Cutcher and Mora is not corroborated by other witnesses.

          Zimmerman, in his SPD interviews, recounted his observations of W-6 and W-13. He never mentioned seeing or speaking to Cutcher or Mora.

          W-1 saw W-6, and heard him ask what was going on, and say he was calling 911. W-6 and W-18 saw W-13 speak to Zimmerman. I don’t think one of these witnesses ever mentioned seeing or hearing Cutcher or Mora.

          An early police report (18/184) says that Cutcher at first denied witnessing anything. Added to the silence of the other witnesses, I think that makes a good case that neither Cutcher nor Mora were ever outside before the police arrived.

          • John Galt says:

            “Their dishonesty is so transparent, and so great, that calling them would damage the prosecutors’ own credibility.”

            Unfortunately for Bernie, most of the State’s witnesses fall into that category.

            • howie says:

              I know of no witness that helps the state. Do you?

              • AghastInFL says:

                W-18 comes closest to the Prosecution theory, but still has multiple issues if you consider the timeline, she states the argument was ten minutes before the shooting which puts it before GZ connected to the NEN op Sean, she also hears two shots, (impossible from GZ see Chips comment above), IMO her statements have morphed after the fact.

                • howie says:

                  I don’t see where that would help them. Even DD does not help. I think Omara was giving a little dig to the opposing counsel when he called her their star witness :)

                  • AghastInFL says:

                    agreed, and I do not believe the prosecution has any intention of calling W-18, her CNN appearances render her testimony moot due to many contradictions. So we are back to what do they have… if anything at all?

                • hooson1st says:

                  I agree that her timeline is inconsistent with the facts, but this is something that investigators often find that “witnesses” perception of time can be innacurate since they are reacting to a surprise event. Their recollections can be fairly helpful as to other detail.

                  A police officer is trained to observe when encountering a situation. This is why a higher level of credibility can be afforded to officer recollections (except in the case of “testilying” and such).

                • LetJusticePrevail says:

                  Witness 18 also said that she was on the phone with 911 before the shot was fired, and claimed that held the phone up to the window so the operator could hear the screams. The only problem is, her call didn’t connect until AFTER the shot was fired, and no screams or shot (obviously) can be heard on the tape of her call. Also note that she admits she did not see the gun, and mis-identified the clothing worn by George. It seems very clear that she only “assumed” George was on top when the shot was fired because she had ALSO “assumed” it was “the boy” who had been screaming for help.

                  About the only thing worth noting about witness 18’s statements is that she described the same type of struggle that witness 6 described, and said that she only saw the two men moving side-to-side, as if they were wrestling. Since she does not say that they rolled over on one another, she is actually verifying that the deceased remained on top even AFTER witness 6 had gone inside. This eliminates the possibility that (like some TrayHuggers attempt to claim) that George had somehow managed to gain control, get on top of the deceased, and fire downwards on him. If her testimony is handled correctly, it can actually be very helpful to the defense.

              • John Galt says:

                No, I don’t know how Bernie will make it past a Rule 3.380 JOA motion.

                • howie says:

                  If the state does not cover all the basic elements of murder 2 then it must be made. If Nelson denies it is easily appealed. How the state can prove the elements is beyond me.

            • hooson1st says:

              My experience with witnesses such as Cutcher and Mora is that they believe what they are relating.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                Oh, I have no doubt that they “believe” what they are saying. The problem is, what they are “saying” is only an *opinion* they have formed *after the fact*, and has no business being a part of the court record.

                • howie says:

                  It can be suppressed, but I doubt the state would even attempt it.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    LJP

                    You are correct as to it being opinion. That is why I think it helpful to the overall tenor of the debate not to label such opinion as lies.

                • diwataman says:

                  I of course disagree with hooson1st. They are liars and lunatics. Just trying to get back at George for yelling at them about their dog poo poo on the ground. Or they’re misandrists and/or couldn’t wait to jump on the “look I’m not racist helping these black people” train. They probably signed the justice for Trayvon petition just like W1 or W2.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    Diwataman, it is possible that you are correct, that those gals are liars and lunatics.

                    Despite my respect for your sleuthing and analytic abilities, I think no more than that they are plain wrong and are affected by their views on the greater social/racial picture.

                    Regardless of why their recollections are faulty, intentional or not, they are wrong. That is our focus.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    +1.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                Unless Cutcher has significant amnesia, she lied when she said Serino didn’t call her back.

                Serino talked to Cutcher and Mora on the phone for about 10 minutes on 3/1, and they both went in for interviews the next day.

                Cutcher

                Mora

              • libby says:

                And I know some young folks who think we never set foot on the moon and they really believe it (it doesnt make it so, but they believe it)

      • ottawa925 says:

        May i offer up in consideration of weight … a jockey. As you know, weight is of prime consideration. A lb. is a lb, whether muscle or fat, but muscle as we know, provides “power”. One can be lean and still have a half and half mixture of fat/muscle. I think Tray’s normal lean tendency combined with his interest in MMA/football, contributed to a lean, but muscular 160 frame as opposed to picturing 6’3″/160 looking like a taller Don Knots.

        • eastern2western says:

          but one pound of muscle is completely different from one pound of fat.

          • ottawa925 says:

            I said as much when I said “but muscle as we know, provides “power”.” We would all prefer a lb. of muscle over a lb. of fat. So we don’t beat up on fat too much however, fat provides “fuel”, and this is why jockeys have a dilema in keeping their weight down. Many eating disorders amongst jockeys, cause they have a hard time keeping weight down ie., avoiding fat/fuel to maintain operation of muscle. Fat FUELs muscle. This is why a boxer can sit down and eat a huge steak etc. because he will then go and train, and the training burns any fat he might have consumed.

            This discussion gives me a thought. Is it possible Tray took steriods of any kind. That certainly would answer a lot of questions – roid/rage. High Schools around the nation have had students using roids to pump em up. I’m not saying his high school did, but I would be almost certain Tray know about steriods and performance enhancement. I tend to think he did not use steriods as I think this would have increased his weight (beefing up the muscles).

            • eastern2western says:

              I think it is the new bath salt because of the sudden attack and did not stop until he was dead fit the description of the bath salt zombie cases.

            • ftsk420 says:

              He didn’t show any of the signs of roids and kids nowadays know roids can make your peener shrink and they don’t want that.

            • MJW says:

              fat provides “fuel”

              Fat is used for energy storage, but creatine phosphate is the first source of energy used during exercise, then glycogen. Fat isn’t used until the glycogen supply is depleted, which takes about half an hour.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              I do recall seeing that the ME listed him as having a BMI of 22, which seems very normal and said that his muscles were normally formed, and that the subcutaneous fat measured 1.5 CM and was normally distributed. I’m not a medical expert, by any means, but this all seems to indicate that he was a normally developed and otherwise healthy 17 yr old. Not the weak “bag of bones” that TrayHuggers like to portray his as being.

            • maggiemoowho says:

              Makes me wonder if there wasn’t something else in his system. I didn’t think much about it until his friend Kit Darrant was arrested for the violent killing of his Mom, he tried to choke her first and when that didn’t work he stabbed her over 100 times(one hundred).

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      In all fairness, I refer to pretty much everyone younger than me as a “kid.” (I’m 33.) However, when I get into the 20s, I’ll add a qualifier in there, “college kids” or “college-age kids.”

      Still, in the essence of fairness, had I seen a 6’3″ person lying facedown in shapeless clothing (baggy pants, hoodie), and pretty generic at that – people of all ages wear baggy pants and hoodies. I wouldn’t know what the heck they were enough to call them a “kid.” I’d have to see their face…see their little cherubic, 12 year old face on TV.

      • eastern2western says:

        however, that woman knew there was a kid lying on the ground without even looking at the body which was even much more odd.

        • justfactsplz says:

          She used the word kid after she had seen the 12 year old pics of Trayvon. She saw nothing, IMO.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            Does anyone know when those pictures were first shown in the Orlando area?

            Cutcher was calling Martin a ‘kid’ in her March 1 telephone interview with Serino.

            Mora didn’t. She used words like ‘guy’, ‘person’, and ‘individual’.

            Mora gave SPD a written statement on the night of the shooting, February 26 (102/184. She wrote:

            ‘I was in the kitchen and I heard someone yelling; almost crying. Then I hear a gunshot.’

            On the phone with Serino on March 1, she said:

            ‘First of all, I was in the kitchen, making some coffee for me and my friend. And I had my window half open. And I hear somebody crying, like a young boy crying. So by the time, me and my friend, we hear like a shoot.’

    • Sayers says:

      Odd.. the ME for Volusia county recorded Trayvon as 5’11” and 158 pounds. Do you have another, better source?

      • mung says:

        Odd most trolls live under bridges, do you use the computer at the library close to the freeway overpass you live under?

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        I think the ME is the best source.

        Estimates of Martin’s height over six feet have come from family members. It’s been widely reported. I’m sure you can find it easily.

        • libby says:

          Look at the pix of tracey and trayvon next to each other!
          tracey is six foot five and his son is only a couple of inches shorter

      • libby says:

        Odd, the ME never saw trayvon alive (I would take the testimony of someone who mneasured his height while alive).
        Ever heard of rigor morits? it is about how the muscles all conract when the body dies (and the person is not the same height going through uncontroleld muscle contractions that they were when alive. the body hunches up and does not make for easy measurements-not that facts mean much to you, troll).
        Are you interested in other ME related FACTS? like why did trayvon have a bad liver and brain damage? was it the sizzurp, sipping lean that did that to his liver and brain?

  7. arkansasmimi says:

    Trayvon Martin ‏@TrayBM
    Throwback! Hanging out at the football game (I’m on front on my dad) pic.twitter.com/JBvuqGDv
    Retweeted by TRAY’S BIG BRUH

  8. On leatherman’s blog they are saying that there is evidence that TM was checking door handles on cars in parking lots. Any truth to that? Where did they come up with that from?

    • howie says:

      Dunno but too bad one was not a bait car.

    • boutis says:

      That sounds like they are trying to get ahead of bad news so they can minimize it. It is an old PR tactic. Leak when no one is paying attention, explain it away, and then minimize. It is in the same vein as the Friday night document dump. By the next week it is old news.

      • boutis says:

        Is this behavior on the surveillance videos mentioned in defendent’s supplemental notice to reciprocal discovery? Hum.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          No.

          If true, I don’t think this would be admissible, unless the state opened the door by having a witness claim that Martin was ‘law abiding’, or the like.

          • John Galt says:

            If true, it will be admitted. APC avers that Martin was law abiding. Also supports Z’s contention that Martin was acting suspicious, provides motive for Martin’s attack on Z and rebuts DD’s story that (1) Martin was just trying to get home in the rain, (2) Martin didn’t know why he was being followed, (3) Martin was scared of crazy creepy old white man (4) Martin rushed home from store to finish watching basketball game.

            • ejarra says:

              Maybe he was just looking for a car to get into to get out of the rain.

              Nah…

              • libby says:

                It was his right to break into any car he wanted to just to get out of the rain just like it was his right to tresspass all he wanted to just to be out of the rain (in other words, trayvon’s rights exceeded the rights of all others since he was black and a child)

            • howie says:

              Also that George was wrong in “profiling” him as a possible criminal.

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              John Galt:

              ‘rebuts DD’s story’

              Good point. We don’t know yet what her story will be, but whatever it is, any information about Martin’s actions on the way home might be admissible to rebut it.

              ‘APC avers that Martin was law abiding.’

              I don’t think the affidavit will itself be admissible, and if it is the prosecution doesn’t have to use it. I don’t think it opens any doors.

              Minor point: The affidavit doesn’t say Martin was law abiding as a character trait. It just says he wasn’t breaking the law that night.

              ‘Also supports Z’s contention that Martin was acting suspicious’

              Judge Lance Ito would let both sides wrangle over such an issue to their hearts’ content. I think Judge Debra Nelson may shut down either side that tries to go there.

              If Martin was acting suspicious, that doesn’t justify Zimmerman shooting him. If Martin wasn’t acting suspicious, that doesn’t justify Martin attacking Zimmerman. It’s not relevant.

              • howie says:

                APC can be challenged prior to trial under certain conditions.

              • Chocolate Diva “I was just told that on one of the video’s that O’mara have in his evidence that it shows TM trying to break into a car.”

                I just don’t get it. It seems to me that they are intentionally starting rumors about Trayvon, but WHY? No quote, no backup, just a statement that she “was told”. Are they trying to bait the GZ supporters?

                Is the plan to say “yea, Trayvon was caught smoking a blunt on the security cameras, BUT HE WASN’T STEALING A CAR LIKE THE GZ SUPPORTERS CLAIMED” thus deflecting whatever may actually be observed in the videos?

              • MJW says:

                If Martin was acting suspicious, that doesn’t justify Zimmerman shooting him. If Martin wasn’t acting suspicious, that doesn’t justify Martin attacking Zimmerman.
                It’s not relevant.

                I think it would be relevant and admissible. The APC isn’t admissible, but the state’s case is premised on the claim that Martin was innocently returning from the store with snacks, and Zimmerman incorrectly profiled him as someone who was up to no good. Also, if Martin were up to no good, that would provide a motive for attacking Zimmerman.

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  Just because they keep saying it doesn’t make it a premise, much less the premise. Martin could have been up to something, and Zimmerman could still be guilty of homicide.

                  I think you are right that if Zimmerman’s surveillance prevented something Martin was planning, that could be a motive for him to lash out. It took me a while to see that. Thanks, to you and John Galt, for pointing this out.

    • Lou says:

      LOL, checking handles on cars. they are scared theie hero St. Trayvon may not be a saint, but actually a felon. well, he would have been. he would have sneaked away though. the family is very sneaky overall. baby pics and suspension lies just to name a couple.

      • mung says:

        They are saying it came from here then go on with huge rants about us and stupid conspiracy theories. Their level of hypocrisy is beyond belief. They call us names, say we don’t understand the facts, but then have tantrums when we do anything even close back to them.

        • Yea, I read it there and i’m like, I sure dont remember seeing that at the TH. I was just trying to figure out where they got that information from.

          • Two sides to a story “I’ve read Treestump type rumors of Trayvon trying to break into cars. Sounds like another of their pipe dreams.”

            Rachael “I had heard something about him trying the handles of car doors – but even so, that has nothing to do with what GZ did.”

            Racerrodig “Now, the Zidiot’s are going to tray [sic] to sell us that there is footage of Trayvon attempting to what……steal cars !! Steal something from a car !! Right…..”

            Where are they getting this information from?

            • yankeeintx says:

              One of them claims to have “connections” to the case. He said that if anything was on those tapes, he would have been informed. Nice to know that the SPD, FDLE, and the FBI report directly to him.

            • jello333 says:

              “I’ve read Treestump type rumors of Trayvon trying to break into cars.”

              Ah, so sounds to me that they’re not saying they saw those “rumors” HERE. Because then they’d just say “Treestump rumors”. By saying “Treestump type rumors”, that tells me they saw it somewhere else.

          • mung says:

            Someone mentioned the other day that there was evidence that he was checking car doors. Didn’t say where it came from or how they knew this information. I am sure that is where it came from then the Leatherheads got mental and started ranting about it.

      • John Galt says:

        If reports of Martin checking car door handles surprises them, I guess they missed the news about possession of stolen jewelry and burglary tool.

    • dizzymissl says:

      If true, that is huge.

    • ackbarsays says:

      I went one day and walked the path from the 7-Eleven to the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The thing that struck me about it was that it was about a 10 minute walk, so for it to take Trayvon 30 minutes or more from the time he left the store until George Zimmerman saw him coming through the cut-through, there had to have been something else occupying Trayvon’s time. It just so happens that the quickest way to get to the RATL from the 7-Eleven involves cutting through a couple of apartment complexes with lots of cars parked right in his path. Then there is the Kohl’s right across the street from the RATL. Lots and lots of cars to check for goodies.

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      No evidence. Just speculation about why O’Mara included the videos in the reciprocal discovery.

      • libby says:

        the FACT that the defense wants to use these vidoes and not the prosecution is essential.
        what if trayvon was seen walking a series of little old ladies across the street?
        What if he was seen trying to open the door handles on cars that didnt belong to him?
        we dont know why they would want to use these security tapes, but we know who wants to use them….

        • jello333 says:

          “we dont know why they would want to use these security tapes, but we know who wants to use them….”

          Excellent point. Sorta like how the different sides have been dealing with Dee Dee recently. It’s now the Defense who wants everything to come out about her statements, while the Prosecution now wishes she’d just disappear.

    • John Galt says:

      Sam’s club video ? The missing 1/2 hour explained ?

    • arkansasmimi says:

      I read that over there this morning too. I personally never heard that. I think the tide is changing for the good over there too. LOL Not many commenting over there, if so same stew just getting churned . Leatherhead not even showing up for days on end, or so the comments reflect :) KEEP YOU HEAD UP GEO!!!!

    • brutalhonesty says:

      better get some screenshots before they delete it so they can make it seem it began here and not there.

    • jello333 says:

      Whoa. If true, that’s big. And if true, then it likely comes from the videos mentioned in MOM/West’s recent filing.

  9. Chip Bennett says:

    I was recently introduced to a novel line of argumentation from the Martin supporters. I’m curious if this is a recent addition to the litany of canards, or if it’s been around a while and I’ve just missed it?

    If GZ had the time to contemplate the angle he would fire his gun, he had the time to forewarn Trayvon that he intended to fire his weapon. Even LE is required to make this announcement before shooting someone, unless they are coming under direct gun fire themselves.

    I’ve read, re-read, and re-read again Chapter 776. The only appearance, that I can find, referencing a requirement to give a warning applies explicitly to officers making an arrest, in 775.05(3) Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.:

    A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force…When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given

    Is that where this “Zimmerman had a duty to forewarn” canard came from?

    • boutis says:

      It ties into the the “wannabe cop” theme. If you “wannabe” a cop you have to follow the same laws even if you are just a civilian. The cognitive distortion is amazing.

    • mung says:

      You are not required to forewarn anything. In fact I was told in my CWP course that if someone was committing a felony not to warn anything and just shoot. The warning puts you in danger. They specifically tell you not to fire a warning shot as well.

      I love these secret code words they keep coming up with that would have stopped this from happening. George should have said he was part of the NWA, George should have clearly stated his desire to not be beaten senseless instead of yelling for help, and now George should have said that he was going to shoot Trayvon before he pulled the trigger. I also don’t think there was any thought to the angle of the gun. I think George pulled it out, and fired by instinct. If he spent any time at the range practicing, this would come natural.

      • Lou says:

        it’s instinctive to protect yourself by any means neccessary. it’s not my problem AA’s view whites as “sof”.

      • sundance says:

        I totally agree with this statement. Never, Never, Never provide warning – just shoot.

        Don’t point your weapons unless you are sure you should, could, can, fire. But when you do point it, USE IT.

      • justfactsplz says:

        George did not have time to think, he had to react to Trayvon reaching for the gun. He managed to get it out of the holster and fire. He wasn’t even sure he hit Trayvon at first. It was a split second descision in order to save his life. It was instinct and his training did pay off.

        • jordan2222 says:

          When I think through what happened. I am surprised that he beat Martin to the gun and also that Martin was not able to prevent him from getting the shot off especially since Martin was much stronger and controlling the fight. I would sure like to see a video reenactment of that.

          • justfactsplz says:

            Martin was attacking him with one hand and reaching for the gun with the other. The position of the gun in the holster was in George’s favor. It wasn’t aiming like at target practice. It was pointing it and firing it.

      • libby says:

        The cops shouldnt have arrested George (and the persecutors should have left him alone, too) since the Stand Your Ground says people who had to defend their lives shouldnt be prosecuted (maybe the amedment to the SYG law should say that you can persecute a percived white guy if he kills a maruading black youth trying to kill him)

    • eastern2western says:

      those come up with some of the wildest speculations in the galaxy. they would probably claim zimmerman used an invisible stun gun if they have to. answerrign their speculations will be a waste of your time because they simply just go on to the next one or they just claim that really does not matter in the court.

    • John Galt says:

      No, Traybots don’t read statutes.

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      GZ didn’t shoot TM to make an arrest. GZ shot TM to stop TM from beating him to death and to prevent him from seizing his gun and shooting him.

    • brutalhonesty says:

      its the same old false logic and mis-application. it goes “because law enfocement is required to, we proclaim without evidence that a normal citizen is required to, and we are right no matter what proof you show, because we proclaimed it.”
      essentially false cause and effect or false analogy.
      “all catholics are christian, therefor all christians are catholic” is clearly an incorrect statement, never-the-less it is true if they are black and say it enough times.

  10. HughStone says:

    Did anyone actually SEE or have the “report” that the Miami Herald claimed they had about TM?
    Or was their word good enough?

  11. nomatter_nevermind says:

    Zimmerman said that he aimed, and that he was careful that his other hand was out of the way.

    • howie says:

      It is a good idea not to shoot yourself. A good idea not to be shot with your own gun too. i think that is reasonable and prudent. Don’t you?

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        howie:

        ‘It is a good idea not to shoot yourself. A good idea not to be shot with your own gun too. i think that is reasonable and prudent. Don’t you?’

        I’m just saying, that is what Zimmerman said he did.

        • howie says:

          That’s what I would do too. I bet the same would go for anyone on the jury. When the T-con went for his gun, then he had no choice. He was pinned on the ground. He was being smothered. His head was being bashed in. His nose had been broken. He had been threatened with being killed. His attacker was trying to get his holstered gun. Why is this travesty still ongoing?

          • libby says:

            George was very slow (or hesitant) to draw his gun. it was his last resort, not his first. he may have taken quite a beating WITHOUT fighting back (defending, but not landing blows), conserving his energy for a last ditch effort to save his life (though he may have lost conscious recall that he had his gun with him, he may have had unconscious recall of the gun in his posession).
            Georges uses nearly all the energy he had left to prevent the gun from being lost to thug in trainingvon and gets off a shot that likely saved his life.
            Too bad his attacker hadnt stopped sooner, he might be alive today if he had ever been taught self restraint

        • mung says:

          The big question is what does “aimed” mean? It could mean pointed in the general direction quickly or it could mean sighted, corrected for wind, and maintained shallow breathing. My guess in this situation is it was more like pointed the end that the bullet comes out in the general direction of the target as quickly as possible.

          • AghastInFL says:

            I have thought for some time now the State will try to exploit the video of the CVSA and Zimmerman’s depiction of aiming the weapon… an instantaneous move exhaustively explained can be characterized as sinister and BDLR seems just the guy to try.

            • jello333 says:

              George was just trying to be as detailed and precise as he could, to the best of his recollection. Does anyone think it REALLY went down as slowly and methodically as George’s descriptions suggest? Are these people really THAT dumb? (Rhetorical!)

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            ‘My guess in this situation is it was more like pointed the end that the bullet comes out in the general direction of the target as quickly as possible.’

            If you used the link I provided, you wouldn’t have to guess.

            Erwin: OK. [Unintelligible] then you got it. You went out like this?

            Zimmerman: I think I went far enough to where I could, make sure, that it was past my other hand, and, in his general area.

          • brutalhonesty says:

            “maintained shallow breathing”…well he is a breath control master, passing voice stress tests and running without sounding winded while holding a gun and talking on the phone while hunting….or so the racists would have us believe

    • jello333 says:

      Yep, which would take about a quarter-second to move your other hand out of the way.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        That’s not what Zimmerman said. He said he moved the gun hand forward so it was past the other hand.

        I’m not arguing a point. I’m just stating the facts.

        • jello333 says:

          Umm, yeah, ok… I had forgotten the exact wording. But whether it was as I remembered (that he moved his other hand out of the way), or as George apparently said (moved the gun hand forward so it was past the other hand), isn’t that pretty much the same difference? I mean as far as the length of time it takes? Because that was really my point… WHATEVER exactly he did to avoid his other hand, it didn’t have to take more than a fraction of a second.

  12. eastern2western says:

    well, I guess the trip to 7-11 was not that innocent at all. the original narrative was tray went to 7-11 for some snacks during the nba half time. at first I thought 7-11 was probably the only store around that neighborhood that had skittles and arizona. However, it turned out that there was a koh’s clothing store across the street. well, why did a kid walked for a near mile for something that he could had purchased across the street at night time while it was cold? When I worked at gas stations, I know a lot of people purchased extra items just to cover up their original intention. Most of the time, they would buy things such as candies, drinks or cup cakes just to provide cover for their trojans. It appears to me that the arizona and skittles were just covers for other purchases which trayvon probably did not get. No wonder west wants copies of tapes from other stores.

    • debfrmhell says:

      Kohls doesn’t have a snack/drink aisle. It is a clothing store though sometimes they carry specialty foods( like Giradelli Chocolate) by the registers. Most clothing stores do not even like you to bring a drink into it while shopping. There are notices on the front door.

      For what he purchased the 7-Eleven is the closest place to go if on foot.

      • eastern2western says:

        I though most stores have a little candy section next to the registers. well, I never been to kohl’s.

      • eastern2western says:

        I check the koh;s website and it appears to me that it sells every thing just like wal mart. the wal mart around my area has a huge food and candy store and I would assume kohl’s has one too. However, I am from cali and florida could be a little different.

        • ottawa925 says:

          eastern, despite what their website says (as many times what is shown online cannot be purchased in the store and that’s not limited to candy), the Khols stores around here in my neck of the woods near Chicago … none carry any candy or drinks whatsoever, unless it is like debfrmhell said … a specialty item that one might buy as a gift for someone. The Kohl’s here are not like Walmart or Target where they simply sell everything. It’s clothing mostly, with homewares, like small appliances, and children’s toys, but that’s about it.

  13. brutalhonesty says:

    this is what we are up against:
    Bradley Jenkins IAGZ .. even if The defense is onto something by putting those store videos into evidence because IMO it shows TM trying several car doors, I dont think they hhave his fingerprints on the door handles.
    7 minutes ago · Like

    Bradley Jenkins Even if it is proven Trayvon was checking car doors, at the adjacent businesses of 7-11 that doesnt prove anything.
    12 minutes ago · Like · 2

    Bradley Jenkins If it does shoe TM checking car doors, how do we know what his intent was ? Maybe a bunch of people left their lights on, and he was simply being a good citizen, and shutting them off .
    2 minutes ago · Like

  14. brutalhonesty says:

    this is gold…….making fun of trents videos

    • eastern2western says:

      please, trent did watch the cctv videos 10-20 times, toke notes and made the conclusion that the whole neighborhood was part of a massive cover up.

  15. art tart says:

    Mung shared: The big question is what does “aimed” mean? It could mean pointed in the general direction quickly or it could mean sighted, corrected for wind, and maintained shallow breathing. My guess in this situation is it was more like pointed the end that the bullet comes out in the general direction of the target as quickly as possible.

    Mung, I agree with your thoughts, I don’t think Z had a lot of time to “aim” except as you stated to “shoot in the general direction of the target,” and as someone else shared, “to get his other hand out of the line of fire,” I don’t see Z’s use of the word “aim” as anything sinister.

    I had to laugh, those making drama about the word “aim” as something sinister and the drama created are probably some of the same that defended Clinton when he said, “the meaning of is.” (I am still trying to figure that out,”) either way, both are nebulous imo and in the interpretation of the beholder.

    • ottawa925 says:

      Aim to me would mean a deliberate effort to line something up that is some distance away from you … not one or two inches. To Aim a gun you are basically taking your gun and pointing it directly at a target using your eyes as the main tool. You realize, however, that many ppl go to a shooting range, and hold a gun up … even line their eye with the sights on a weapon … and still miss the target. I don’t think what happened that night required any amount of aiming. When the target itself is inches in front of you, and that target may have even leaned over even closer to you, maybe one/two inches and there is a struggle for the gun, all that is needed is to command the gun and make sure the muzzle points up at the target. Is that aiming? No … cause to me … aiming requires your own eyes to be part of the process, it’s more of a linear process …. line of sight. Your eyes trying to match up with the weapon to pinpoint the target at a distance and shoot. When struggling with an attacker, the process is not aiming but an attempt to shoot the target without the benefit of the above before the struggle has the weapon turned in your direction. GZ could have very well ended up shooting himself too ya know. It’s all split second once a struggle ensues. I think every police officer would say … struggle for officer’s gun is one of the worst case scenarios.

      • brutalhonesty says:

        their stupid aimed and took the time to make sure not to hit his hand and blah blah crap is crap and is invalid and stupid and has zero basis in fact, logic, science, common sense

        this also explains what causes stipling so they can shut up about intermediate range proves he lied and he had him at bay begging

        • brutalhonesty says:

          and it explains why georges gun jammed, because gz jammed it into tm and the slide was blocked

          • AghastInFL says:

            While there was conjecture early in the investigation that the gun jammed, according to the police report that was not the case. The gun was recovered with a round in the chamber and the magazine loaded. (p.20 of 184) It was also test fired later and fully functional.

            • justfactsplz says:

              That’s right, it did not jam.

              • James says:

                Most semiauto handguns will not fire if the muzzle is pressed back causing it to be out of battery as a safety feature, since firing out of battery tends to produce results similar to a small grenade in the firer’s hand (there are numerous pictures online of the results of an out-of-battery discharge). So it is perfectly possible that GZ fired a shot, pressed his pistol against TM to try a second shot, pushed the muzzle out of battery, but when he withdrew the pistol since TM was no longer pounding him, it went back in battery (pressure from the recoil spring). I don’t recall GZ claiming to have tried firing a second shot, though.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  No that did not happen. I know George. He fired only one shot, the shot that killed Trayvon. SPD verified he shot only once. If George’s gun had malfunctioned he would have told us.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          brutalhonesty

          ‘their stupid aimed and took the time to make sure not to hit his hand and blah blah crap is crap’

          Tell it to Zimmerman.

          • jello333 says:

            When I flip a light switch, two little metal pieces make contact inside the switch. That causes the circuit to close, and electrons are able to flow freely through the wires connecting the switch to the light fixture. When that happens, the current flows through the filament inside the lightbulb, which excites the electrons in the filament, which causes it to heat up rapidly. That heat is converted into light, and… ta da!… let there be light!

            Sorry to be stupid, but see how long it took me to describe something that takes no real time at all? I think that’s what George was doing. Trying to describe something that happened in a very short period of time (though of course not speed-of-light short ;) ) in minute detail, so the listener could understand his description better. Not sure he was successful (in making the description more understandable), but it’s clear that’s what he was trying to do.

            • libby says:

              Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              I wanted to say this exact same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              The cops are spending hours and hours trying to get George to describe a split second life saving decision and action and the trayvonites split hairs over tiny trivial nonsense while ignoring the massive flaws in their own illogic

        • libby says:

          actually, they are trying to have it both ways (on the one hand claiming it was form far away and then claiming why did he have to aim if he was so close-they admit it was a close shot when they claiming no aiming was needed)

      • mung says:

        The ex-marine that I have been talking to about CWP stuff said that you need to know how to aim without bringing the gun up to your eye level. The CWP instructor made us take 2 shots from a half extended position after having the gun by our waist and finger off of the trigger. The point here is that when George said he aimed he simply meant put the thing where the bullet comes out of in the direction of the bad guy.

      • libby says:

        the farther from the target you are, the more effort aiming requires.
        Snipers have to employ the greatest effort to aim at their targets since they are the farthest from their target.
        at close range, you dont have to make as much effort to aim successfully, but it is still aiming even if you can do it with your eyes closed or in the dark.
        Aiming can be pointing in the general direction in close in combat or it can be highly precise at farther distances, but all are aiming even if they differ on degrees on how you aim at these differign distances

    • howie says:

      I aim to go get a Cheeseburger for lunch.

    • AghastInFL says:

      Art, understand I too think the notion is absurd, but I also believe it not beyond the realm of possibility given previous foray into the theatre of the absurd under the tutelage of BDLR… the type of thing the TM supporters cling to in an effort to meet the prosecutions burden.

  16. diwataman says:

    I never saw this video before of Trayvon’s friends, it’s on the Talk Left forum but somehow I missed it. Well, here’s the link. By the way I don’t think either of these two are you know who but I won’t go into all that here.

    http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg102501.html#msg102501

    Video;
    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/trayvon-martin-classmates-react-to-news-of-zimmerman-charges/

    • Lou says:

      from what I know Trayvon never attended Carol City Sr. (which is located in his feeder pattern). Trayvon attended Highland Oaks and then Michael Krop. he was going to graduate from Carol City Sr. at a dropout prevention program located on NW22nd Ave.
      also, hardly anyone ever kjnew Trayvon at Krop because his attendance record shows that he was hardly ever in school AND TARDY A LOT. HE HAD MORE ABSENCES THAN TARDIES THOUGH. sorry about the caps. this keyboard sux

      • Lou says:

        the dropout prevention program might be loacted at NW27 ave. not sure it’s south of Miami Gardens Drive. Trayvon never attended CC though. he was only going to graduate from there.

      • diwataman says:

        Huh? Where are you getting this stuff?

        • Lou says:

          let’s just say the attendance records can be accessed through a program called ISIS from those that have access. the Carol City part was from Trayvon’s FB account. he was going to graduate from Carol City Sr in the class of 2013. it only makes sense that he was expelled.

          • diwataman says:

            Well that’s very interesting. Does one have to be in Florida to do this? It makes me wonder why O’Mara sent a subpoena to MCC and not to Highland Oaks H.S..

            • Lou says:

              a lot of people that work for M-DCPS have this access. they either are registrars for the school or an administrator (they can only see any students attendance and suspension record though, not WHY they were suspended, only that they were suspended). I think MOM sent the subpeona to MCC because Sybrina said he once went there. from what I’ve seen in the news though Trayvon’s home school would be MCC, but then again why did his Facebook page say he was going to graduate with the class of 2013 from Carol City. the only thing I can think of is kids with behavior issues go to a dropout prevention program in the Miami Gardens area, and is part of Carol City Senior, but not on site.

          • ftsk420 says:

            Can you post any of the info you have. That’s a big deal if he was expelled.

            • dmoseylou says:

              A HS teacher at my church told me a long time ago, that maybe FL schools were different, but any kid missing that many days plus 3 10-day suspensions here would have been expelled the third time, if not sooner.

              • ftsk420 says:

                I was watching beyond scared straight and there was a teen from miami who was expelled from school for assaulting someone who worked at the school. I think Trayvon was expelled from school for a fight.

                • dmoseylou says:

                  Or a one-sided fight with a bus driver.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    Lol that’s why I only said a fight I think it was the bus driver. There is a lot of people out there that say that story is bs but I believe it’s true and if it went down the way I read it did then it involved a women.

                • Alexandra M. says:

                  Hmmm….shouldn’t the Sybrina/Tracy “grieving family” <–photo op "couple" that they are, be presenting "scholarships" to teens attending "alternative schools" then? As a teacher in training myself, a district's alternative high school is typically "the last option" before formal expulsion. In addition, some of these "alternative" teens require an extremely structured school setting due to their "unique behavioral challenges" and need for "more targeted intervention". In other words, they're not able to succeed in regular high school….for a variety of reasons……

            • Lou says:

              well, his FB page says that he was going to graduate from Carol City Sr. with the class of 2013. maybe that was part of the expulsion meeting that Sybrina attended and why he was sent to Sanford.

              • diwataman says:

                I had the impression he transferred to MCC sometime in January and also went their previously because of his tweets;

                (Sometime in Jan 2012)
                1) PEACE OUT KROP :P
                2) HELLO CC…. AGAIN….. KINDA MISS IT
                3) WULD I MISS KROP?? HELL NAW FUK DA SKOOL, FUK DA LUNCH, ND MOST OF ALL FUK DA FACULTY….. IMA MISS SUM OF DA STUDENTS, MAINLY DA BABIES ;)
                4) @_LoveThyLondon IM TRANSFERIN
                5) @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA I said why dummy
                6) @_LoveThyLondon I MOVED WIT MY OL BOI
                7) @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA :/ … Ohh,, Good luck,, ima miss yu old man .

                “expulsion meeting that Sybrina attended”

                When did that take place?

      • howie says:

        Do they have Astronaut Training there?

    • ejarra says:

      “I don’t think either of these two are you know who… ”

      I think you know who I think I know who one of them is, you know? So, with your great audio equipment, can you do an analysis of you know who to compare with you know whom(s). Just so we know.

      Know what I mean?

      • diwataman says:

        I think it would be a futile effort. Both sounded like possibilities when I first heard them though upon further listening I went with Aiyanna.

        • maggiemoowho says:

          This site has all the handbooks for a number of different things concerning Miami Dade schools. Scroll down to page 49 for a list of others.
          http://ehandbooks.dadeschools.net/policies/89.pdf

          • diwataman says:

            I guess that would help if I had access.

          • Lou says:

            p.34 is interesting regarding parent’s responsibilities:Parents are expected to:
            • Report and explain an absence or tardiness to the school.
            Failure of the parent to provide required documentation within three days upon the student’s return to school will result in an unexcused absence.
            • Ensure that the child has requested and completes make-up assignments for all excused absences/tardiness from their teachers upon their return to school or class.
            • Appear before the Attendance Review Committee at the scheduled time to provide information relating to their child’s absences and to support prescribed activities.

        • ejarra says:

          But… but… but… Think of all the fun you’d have!

          My money is now on AF for #1.

          • diwataman says:

            Well then we agree on who sounds the most likely, so I don’t have to do anything you see? That was easy. The only problem is her bday is on 4/15 and she’s only 17. It should between 10/30 and 3/19.

            • ejarra says:

              “It should between 10/30 and 3/19.”

              That would be true if DD1 = DD2. Suppose Crump was telling the truth when he said that she was 16, and later when Nat Jack said 17; since AF turned 17 4/15.

              Here’s what I find so DAMN ODD. Neither AF nor AB have ever acknowledged the existence of DD. Two of his closest female friends NEVER ONCE wrote her name or referenced her in any tweet. Don’t ask how I know that. That makes NO sense!

              This is why I feel that they are somehow involved, even though neither may be her.

              We’ll see soon enough.

              • diwataman says:

                Well, I’m going off of what West said and he said she, singular, was 18 on 3/19, 4/20 and when he wrote that.

                I assume you know the same way I know but as far as I understand there was a tweet from AB about not knowing her. I have only found on tweet myself from any of his friends of family that said, well, I’ll just link to my first comment at the treehouse from back in April;
                http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-106429

                • ejarra says:

                  That was a trip down memory lane. It’s been wild how many are still here. That was my first day visiting the CTH and I’ve made a home here since. I din’t know much of what you wrote that day. Thanx for the info.

                  • arkansasmimi says:

                    Wow that was a trip down memory lane. DD is how I found the TH. And I too have been here ever since. There are so many that I wonder about that have gone and think about sometimes…

                  • jello333 says:

                    I think both of you have me beat by about a week. I don’t know how to search for comments, but I’m pretty sure my first one was right around the first of May.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I, too, do not know how to search for specific comments. I don’t think we can do that.

                    I made up a wish list of features I think we would all like to have but then realized that’s all it was .. a WISH list. I think almost everyone here realizes that and are respectful and cooperative when someone asks for information regarding previously posted material.

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  Thanks for the link to the early post on Dee Dee. It’s quite interesting.

                  I don’t think I’ve seen any information about when Dee De learned that Martin was dead. Curiously, de la Rionda asked her to confirm that she learned it ‘at some point’ (17:30).

                  Do you know why Stephan B thought it was less than a week?

                  It seems odd to me that the gf wouldn’t know for a week. Did no one want to be the one to tell her?

                  Trayvon’s name was on the news the next day. (56-1:06)

                  I’ve seen nothing in the discovery to show that Dee Dee thought of herself and Trayvon as a couple.

                  Crump didn’t ask about their relationship at all. When de la Rionda asked her if they were dating, she answered with a grunt that de la Rionda seems to have interpreted as negative (2:27). Then he got timid, and wouldn’t ask if Dee Dee was Trayvon’s girlfriend. He asked if she was ‘kind of his girlfriend’. The equivocal question got an equivocal answer: ‘Yeah, we was getting there’ (3:22).

                  AF and Trayvon ‘were supposed to go ice skating on March 3rd.’ Could she be the gf Stephan B alluded to?

                  If Dee Dee was an ‘other woman’, maybe that’s why she and Trayvon weren’t ‘dating’. But the whole idea of a romantic relationship between them feels like more of Crump’s BS to me.

                  • howie says:

                    Why would anyone spend 7 hours on a phone with someone who was not a gf? Crazy?

                  • diwataman says:

                    AF found out the next day, I’m pretty sure AB did as well, so neither of them could be who Stephen B was talking about. Maybe she was on vacation or in juvi?

                    I think it’s pretty clear from Trayvons tweets that he was a man of many women let’s say so I think any characterization of him from anyone including his friends as saying this or that person is his “girlfriend” is probably misguided.

                    I’m fairly certain from the timing and the way he says it he is talking about DeeDee and apparently him and the rest of Trayvons crew didn’t know who she was. Apparently no one knew who this girl was. Kind of funny for knowing him since kindergarten and Sybrina not knowing her name until around the Christmas before and Tracy not knowing her. How is that possible?

                  • ejarra says:

                    “How is that possible?”

                    That was, in a round about way, what I was alluding to. How such close freinds seem to have no clue as to DD. You would think that multiple tweets would have come from that. Especially around March 19th and April 2nd. Nothing also around Aug 2nd either. My guess was either she is a complete fabrication and they know that or they are part of the whole DD meme as in a type of conspiracy. Nothing else makes any sense and I don’t believe is posible.

                  • diwataman says:

                    One of my thoughts has always been that Alicia would know her if it is true that DeeDee knew him since kindergarten.

                    It’s difficult to tell with all this lying from them all but I get the feeling that Trayvon lived with Tracy and Alicia most of his life and Tracy didn’t know him very well other than to take him out once in a while. So it was Alicia that took care of him and getting to know his friends, taking him to school, raising him. But I don’t recall her saying anything about DeeDee at this moment.

                    Hopefully O’Mara will depose her.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, that’s what I’ve thought all along. Of the 3 main “parent” figures, I’d think Alicia would have known Trayvon FAR better than Sybrina did, and even quite a bit better than Tracy did. But of course they’ve got her hidden in a pit in a basement somewhere, lowering down her food and stuff in a basket.

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  Diwataman:

                  ‘Maybe she was on vacation or in juvi?’

                  I thought she might be out of town, but someone could have called her. Ditto juvi, which I didn’t think of.

                  It gives me another idea. She might have been in a drug rehab, that didn’t allow phone calls the first week. I don’t think that’s typical, but regimens vary a lot from one institution to another.

                  If Martin did have a main gf, and she had become unavailable for one of the above reasons, that would be another reason for him to be cranky.

            • MJW says:

              The biggest problem is that DeeDee’s name is alphabetically between Brandy Green and Christina Johnson.

              • ejarra says:

                DD2’s name goes between Green and C. Johnson. If there is a DD1, which I believe there is and per our last correspondence you may not, she doesn’t need to fit in-between as it could be anyone. I’m not saying that it’s AF or AB, I’m saying that it’s odd that they don’t seen to mention DD, seeing how close they were to TM. I saw that AF admitted to meeting Tracy at the funeral/wake.

                But you’re correct in that, “If the name doesn’t fit, we must drop it.”

              • diwataman says:

                I disagree with that as being the biggest problem. Just look at Jahvaris. The last name on his birth certificate is probably Scott but he could have used Fulton for most of his life though it may have never been legally changed. Then as time went on during this whole case it morphed into Martin which it may not be so odd to take on a stepfathers last name except for the fact that it seems Tracy was not in his life for very long and it’s when he was rather young.

                During my search it’s not unusual to find people using different last names, especially girls taking on names of stepfathers though they may no longer be married to their biological mothers.

                Also, how do we know how the last names are obtained and entered. It doesn’t seem to me like Bernie asked for her birth certificate to write down her last name.

                Also, there is the potential error that might be had in entering the names onto the witness list.

                During my journey what I’ve found is no criteria is certain. The best I can really say is, even with the bday date range thing, is that this may be an indication that this person is or is not. There is no criteria I can point to and can say with finality, yea or nay.

  17. brutalhonesty says:

    stuff like this has to make their heads explode. it proves false all their stupid time theories about how long it takes gz to “aim” at trayvon using real world execution of the motions in real time. sorry leatherman, any high school student knows this, so youd think a so called lawyer would as well.

  18. brutalhonesty says:

    i think sometimes the trayvonites are lying about the treehouse in the following way: they suggest our posts come from content over there. I suggest its the other way around. we come up with stuff along the way ourselves, and after posting it here, we post it over there….where the traycrew read it and find ways to spin it….such as the aformentioned lie

    of course, that is only one of the many lies they tell about us.

  19. brutalhonesty says:

    i love how their news articles say the martins say we are “using his social media and school records to make him look like…”……hey now, what we look like is our own choice due to our individual free will and deliberate outward expression. he was who he presented himself as, and it was not a cherubic angel who majored in cheerfulness and would never cuss. they are the ones factually using his former self in late childhood during pre-puberty to make him look like the greatest thing since….well since Obama to be frank.

    • howie says:

      The sealing of his records may play a key role. If the Martin lawyers (Jackson/Crump) knew what was in the records. Then if they published lies about him after the sealing. If that is the case it shows clear intent to defraud. That could cause large problems for them if that is what happened. I don’t think one can do that. It would prove bad faith. They will be important.

      • justfactsplz says:

        They knew, all of them knew. In the early rally with Al Sharpton, he told that people would try and tarnish Trayvon’s image, saying he was a drug dealer, etc. He mentioned several things but all I can remember at the moment was drug dealer.

        • howie says:

          I just think that sealing the records is going to be important. It might be proof that they knowingly acted in bad faith.

          • justfactsplz says:

            If they did act in bad faith would they face possible consequences?

            • howie says:

              I think so. Not sure. Fraudulent misrepresentation? Knowingly misrepresenting the facts? If it turns out T-con was not as represented to be, and they pushed it knowingly? The sealing of the records might be proof of it if they knew what was in them. Above my pay grade at this point. Maybe someone else knows.

  20. brutalhonesty says:

    Did the 7-11 clerk not remember TM because he was shown the pic of TM in the Hollister shirt at 12yrs old? or maybe the photoshopped hoody pic that the movement :) Uses to represent him??

    • diwataman says:

      I wish they would have played the whole video for him because he was watching as the three stooges left, while they were outside, and when Trayvon walked by as he left. I also bet he knows at least one if not all of the three stooges at least to some degree, maybe they just came in often and that’s how he knows them.

      • rooferx says:

        I kinda got that impression also. Look how nonchalant the clerk is with those three and how they dressed/acted. He didn’t card any of them, not even the guy using his debit card.
        Anyone working at a store like that KNOWS the local customers.

  21. jordan2222 says:

    I just reviewed the original charging document. Notice the use of the word “felt” in the last paragraph on page 1. Isn’t that unusual? How does anyone know what anyone else “felt” enough to use it in an affidavit? Are some feelings illegal?

    Where is the law that covers the State’s charge that George profiled Martin as a criminal? I mean what statute did he violate?

  22. HughStone says:

    SAY WHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sounds to me someone needs to be deposed.

    “my home girl @Shawtylu Goeshard talked to trayvon”

    “no limit nigga doesnt make him sound like a thug it basically means its no limit in life i know i knew trayvon an tray had a temper yeah he hit the bus driver atleast it wasnt a woman he wasnt tryin to prove nothing”

    http://www.livefyre.com/profile/_up4073533@livefyre.com/

    • crossdraw says:

      ya and they have TM voice recorded
      @Tiff44 @billy111 yeah i got the voice of trayvon an my homegirl rappin on the phone

  23. arkansasmimi says:

    Sybrina was in a TM car in the MLK Parade. just saw posted on TM sister fb. Also that it was drizzling water, not dripping bahahahaha

    • dmoseylou says:

      Barf Bag Alert—I was not brave enough to check the vids to see if they were waving from the car. I just finished supper. :lol:

      “Travyon Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, and his brother rode in a vehicle in the parade.

      “Dr. King would approve because it’s something positive. I still have an issue and that’s the reason I keep fighting for my son because you should have a right to walk in peace and you shouldn’t have to worry about someone following you and doing some kind of harm to you,” said Fulton.”
      http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Thousands-Attend-Miamis-Martin-Luther-King-Day-Parade-187763071.html

      • janc1955 says:

        I still have an issue too, Sybrina. Actually, I have several of them. But my issue with you is, why was your son “walking in peace” anywhere, on any street, after his 3rd suspension from school? The only place he should’ve been walking in peace was from his bedroom to the fridge and back. And if you’re about to tell me you turned him over to his ‘ol boi’ for supervision, don’t bother. The young man was your responsibility — yours and his father’s. Zimmerman also had a right to live in peace, in a neighborhood free of crime, and should not have to concern himself with suspicious-looking, unsupervised, unparented young men prowling the streets of his condo complex on dark rainy nights.

  24. eastern2western says:

    the defense should think about calling al sharpton to the stance.

    • Lou says:

      all this because Sybrina is hiding what Trayvon sounded like. that lady is deceptive. she should at least release a current video of him, but no, she continues to LIE.

      • eastern2western says:

        it is very rare that no body in the whole family has any audio of trayvon. Trayvon has like three moms (biological mom, adapted mom and fiancee) and countless other friends, but no body has one singular video of trayvon? what centure are we in?

        • arkansasmimi says:

          E2W I have said that oogles of times. I wont believe that no one does, esp with all the diff kinds of devices/phones now days. Just dont believe it.

          • janc1955 says:

            Me neither. I guess they don’t have a recording of a 12 year-old Trayvon, so just like with his pictures, they’re trying to hide the relative adultness of the 17 year-old Trayvon. Perhaps in particular, his very deep voice.

  25. arkansasmimi says:

    This is so stupid, its funny! From a Leatherhead. So they stomp, scream and cuss about GZ giving out personal thank you card. Why would you give ANYTHING to him if you didnt support him? ROFLMBO
    ********
    mountainmanpat says:
    January 21, 2013 at 10:48 am
    I received a personalized Thank You card from fogen after donating 2 cents to his paypal account…..Why he even called me his “friend”…yeah right……exchange of goods?

    • eastern2western says:

      a thank u card for 2 cents? that barely pays the stamp.

      • arkansasmimi says:

        I dont believe for a sec that person sent 2 cents. I would bet there is a min for paypal. Could be wrong. Never have done paypal. And stamps are 44 cents i think

      • Lou says:

        well if it’s true, it shows George cares about anybody that would be thinking of him.
        even if it’s 2 cents.

        • arkansasmimi says:

          +1

        • justfactsplz says:

          That is the kind of person George is. He does care about his supporters.

          • jello333 says:

            We’ve only been able to send him one small donation, and that was back before he started doing the Thank You cards. I wish I had the money to do more, but we’re kinda living right at the poverty level now. But at least I can do what I can to help HERE… sorta moral support, if nothing else.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Hey, moral support is very important to George also. I myself am on a fixed income and can sympathize with you concerning how hard it is to make ends meet in today’s economy. I wish I could donate a ton to his defense but I cannot.

          • arkansasmimi says:

            What got me JFP, is this was a Traybot Leatherhead stating he/she sent money to GZ.

            • justfactsplz says:

              They may have tried to donate two cents just to be mean, Idon’t know. I wouldn’t put anything past the Traybots. How they can hate George and his family so much is beyond me, especially when all evidence proves his innocence. They will go off of their rockers when the real Trayvon is exposed by the defense. It won’d be pretty. Trayvon was a violent person.

              • arkansasmimi says:

                I agree. But IMHO it shows their ignorance lol GZ benefited from what ever they sent him. Hypocrites what they are. Yep, even the pooches at the pound dont know what to do or say! Fixing to get really good.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  I can hardly wait, it will be so good. The phones, Dee Dee, Trayvon’s violent and criminal behavior, it will all come out. Wolverines are gonna love it!

                  • arkansasmimi says:

                    LOL TOLD YA! Now the Female Dogs are on to abused children!
                    ******
                    Laura‏@003Laura 1 min ago
                    If you didn’t think that a T-Shirt could make a difference to an Abused Child, think again! Go to http://helpspreadthis.org/tshirt #DT @helpspreadthis

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    They know they are fighting a losing battle. How quickly they have moved on. There are still a few at Click Orlando.com spewing their nonsense but that has died down too.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I guess you still visit there. The only good that came out of my visits there long ago was meeting you and hammering at you to come over here

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I am here most of the time. I have some friends there still that are supporters of George and after almost a year we enjoy keeping up with each other. The first time I visited the TH I was researching the articles about Dee Dee and Purple Drank. I read here a long time before I posted. It wasn’t easy here for me at first but I stuck it out because truth lives here and after awhile I was no longer judged by who I knew.

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    Patience may be a virtue, but it is an agonizing virtue! I want it all to come out NOW!

                    My constant prayer for all the Zimmermans is that the Lord will reveal His Goodness to all who have been faithful in their support and beliefs in George’s innocence and will open the eyes of those who have been blinded by the evil, racial money-mongers. That those responsible for so much hate, anger, violence and DEATH will face judgement in this life. They MUST be exposed—flayed to the bone—and punished in order for any of the TM supporters to be able to finally accept that they have been lied to, and used to foment racial hatred, so the Scheme Team could cash in on MegaBucks.

                    May God have mercy on the Scheming Scammers and may the judicial system punish them with the harshest financial penalties and prison sentences allowed by law.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    My sentiments exactly. If they are not forced to pay for this evil and corrupt violation of justice, it will happen again. Every one of them need to pay, I don’t care who they are.

                  • jello333 says:

                    When LetJusticePrevail was on-hold to talk on the radio show the other night, he asked if anyone had anything specific they’ll like him to ask (assuming he got through). I said to ask if George and MOM/West were gonna be trying to hold the conspirators accountable after the criminal stage of this was over. And when LJP was put on the air, he did indeed ask Bobby that. And while he didn’t give specifics in his answer, he did say something that made me feel pretty good about it. Something like, “Who knows who the next George Zimmerman will be if they’re allowed to get away with this. So no, knowing what I know, and what we might be able to do, it would be selfish of me to NOT push back to make sure this doesn’t happen again.” Like I say, you maybe have to read between the lines a little, but sure sounds to me like they are NOT gonna just let this drop after George is exonerated. And I very much doubt he was just talking about lawsuits.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I believe Bobby will pursue this all of the way. Nat Jackson is already in his sights and the rest will follow. The Zimmermans believe in justice and they love justice. They will fight this perversion of justice..

                  • jello333 says:

                    Thanks… I love hearing that.

  26. jordan2222 says:

    Who is screaming? I think if there was a way to prove conclusively that it’s George it is pretty damn significant. I researched this during the original discussion a long time ago when the OS “experts” wanted the public to believe that it was Trayvon.

    And we all heard George trying to recreate his screaming at the SPD. Why would they even bother to that unless they thought it would prove or disprove that it was George?

    My recollection is that there was no way to say with any degree of accuracy, whose voice was on the audio so why is it important to obtain any of Martin’s voice samples?

    Have there been technological improvements in voice analysis?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Who is screaming? I think if there was a way to prove conclusively that it’s George it is pretty damn significant.

      Witness testimony and common sense dictate that the voice screaming is Zimmerman’s, not Martin’s.

      First: one eye-witness stated that Zimmerman was screaming

      Second: Tracy Martin, in the witness of two SPD officers, admitted that the recorded screams were not Trayvon Martin’s voice.

      Third: all eye-witnesses have Martin on top of Zimmerman, and Martin had no physical injuries commensurate with any sort of fight or struggle. Witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman while the screams were taking place. Far from Martin making any attempts to escape, witnesses indicated that Martin was pinning Zimmerman to the ground, and repeatedly pushing him back to the ground and preventing Zimmerman from escaping.

      Why would the person on top in such a situation have cause for at least 40 seconds of sustained, anguished screams for help, and to “stop it”?

      • eastern2western says:

        the martins have officially screw themselves with claiming the screams belong to trayvon. Now with the bloody photos, they are also claiming trayvon had all the rights to beat up zimmerman because he was fighting a man with a gun. which makes zero sense at all because why would a person who was clearly winning the fight screaming for help?

        • Lou says:

          it’s gotten so bad, they won’t even answer the question now about the screams. the Martin’s are LIARS!

          • jello333 says:

            Watch the 2nd bond hearing, when the “scream” tape is played for Robert Sr. Both he and George look distinctly upset. But for a few seconds, the camera in on Sybrina. She shows NO emotion, and if I recall correctly even exchanges words with NatJack as the screams are being heard. Almost an, “Oh god, why are they playing that stupid tape again?” look on their faces. Sybrina, Tracy, and every other charter member of the Scheme Team KNOW it’s not Trayvon screaming.

            You know how I’m so certain? Because I can put myself in their shoes. Sitting there in the courtroom, listening to the screams of my son just before he is murdered. Screaming and pleading for his life, and still he’s murdered. And the person who murdered him, in cold-blood, is sitting there only a few feet away from me. At a MINIMUM I’d break down in tears, or maybe start screaming. But it’s also possible I’d jump up and try to attack my son’s murderer. But what do we get from Sybrina? Not. A. Thing.

            • arkansasmimi says:

              +1 . And havent been back to court since Chump was called up to the podium by Judge Nelson. I would be there whether my attny was or not. Thats just me.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I just assumed that everyone here knows that but thanks a lot for the refresher. My question is really about technology improvements and why is there any interest in finding audio of Martin’s voice ,. and also why did the SPD get George to scream.

        I doubt that anyone could exactly duplicate a scream under such circumstances. Clearly he was terrified so physical pain as well as emotions greatly influence the sounds.

        I briefly visited Talkleft today. There is quite a discussion over there about the state would present their case. Aside from the TH and Jeralyn’s site, no one has reasonable discussion about the case on a daily basis. There are other sites that do a damn good job but they do not have daily updates. I like American Thinker and Mike McDaniel does a superb job.

        • eastern2western says:

          voice based evidence is really a great area in science. things such as genetics and finger print are usually much more admissable because they do not change at all through a person’s life time. the problem with voice is that it changes all of the time during a person’s aging process. In addition, there is also environmental factors such as wind, recording devices and stress. Because zimmerman screamed while having a broken nose which complicates the matter more because the blockage of nasal passages has a direct effect with a person’s voice quality.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Looks like my response to you, Chip, disappeared.

        I was thanking your for the refresher, which I think most of know. No one here has ever questioned that it was George’s voice but my questions were:

        Have there been technological improvements in voice analysis?

        Why did the SPD do the test scream on George if the analysis means nothing?

        Why are we still trying to find audio of Martin’s voice? Is there another motive?

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          I agree with you that a voice exemplar from the deceased would not serve to provide *scientific* proof that it was not the deceased screaming (because the voice sample on the tape was insufficient for an adequate comparison) but it MIGHT (if what we suspect is true) show that the deceased’s voice was much deeper than George’s, and remove some of the doubt from the mind of the judge and/or jury.

          After all, most of the witness statements indicate that they *assumed* it was the deceased screaming because the voice was high pitched, which most people associate with a more youthful person. If the witnesses were able to hear the recorded voice of the deceased, they might very well say (in court) that they are not certain WHO was screaming, or even eliminate the deceased as being a possibility, leaving George as the only remaining option. Could such a thing be done in a courtroom, legally?

          • jordan2222 says:

            I don’t know.

            • debfrmhell says:

              In the fight video that Martin was refereeing did he ever speak while he was filming it? I haven’t seen it, only references to it, sorry.

              • nomatter_nevermind says:

                I’ve seen it, but not recently.

                As I recall, the person some people think is Martin didn’t speak. The audio isn’t great.

                Someone can be heard saying the name ‘Trayvon’, I think telling him to watch out, or the like.

                I don’t know why people infer that the maybe-Martin was ‘refereeing’. It looked to me like he just walked past.

                Does bare-knuckle boxing in the hood normally have referees?

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            ‘After all, most of the witness statements indicate that they *assumed* it was the deceased screaming because the voice was high pitched . . .’

            This is completely wrong.

            Only three of the bystander witnesses are known to be on record telling LE investigators they think Martin was the screamer. They are Cutcher, Mora, and W-18. Austin McLendon/Brown, the dog walker, supposedly said that to a journalist. Nothing in the discovery so far shows that he ever said it to an LE investigator.

            None of these witnesses said the voice was youthful on the night of the shooting.

            Cutcher on her 911 call didn’t say she heard anything before the gunshot. Mora gave a written statement on the night of the shooting (102/184), in which she said she heard ‘someone yelling, almost crying’. The 3/1 joint phone call with Serino was the first time for both Cutcher and Mora to indicate the voice was youthful.

            W-18 first said the voice sounded youthful in a written statement on 3/17, almost three weeks after the shooting (95/184). She wrote that the cries for help ‘sounded like a young boy’s voice’.

  27. eastern2western says:

    It looks like guttman will be in a lot of legal trouble for his 5 minute story. according to their recent legal moves, the defense will probably be concentrating on impeaching dd and gutman will play a pivotal part. crump claimed that he only spoke to dd once in the interview, but gutman stated that he was talking to dd for days and day. unless gutman has all of the conversations taped and documented, the defense could go straight and apply for the impeachment of dd because they have no way of knowing the content of the interview between gutman and dd. In addition to the gutman problems, crump also has the missing 14 minutes, Unless that moron has a reasonable explaination for the missing 14 minutes, he should be packing for the bahamas at this point.

  28. arkansasmimi says:

    Chris Guilfoyle‏@demgators 4 hrs ago
    @rzimmermanjr 6 separate incidents of shootings in Sanford this weekend alone, and ppl wonder why law abiding citizens carry

  29. metrometeor says:

    The only question in my mind is… is Mary Cutcher a natural blonde?

  30. arkansasmimi says:

    Defense Discovery will be fun… IMHO. Betcha between now and next hearing, there will be a few things being filed. Eagerly waiting!!! Dog Pound are running around like they have been bit by a goofy bug, They dont know what to do or which way to go. Laura003 I think has suffered frost bite to the brain! Need to stay in outta the bitter cold honey

  31. arkansasmimi says:

    Just read this comment over at the Global Grind stink farm, their article on the release of Def discovery. Interesting…
    ********************
    Luke Theisman · Fort Zumwalt South High
    I know friends of the family and they even said he’s been getting in touble stealing and doing drugs. That’s HIS family.
    Saturday at 7:07am

  32. jello333 says:

    Reading through Bigboi’s tweets, pretty sure she was drunk this evening. Just posting one short comment after another, for like two hours straight. None of them directed at anyone. Just little snide remarks about George. And nobody, even her fans, were responding to her. And then when she finally started to change the subject, the first thing she’s mentions is how Obama hasn’t repeated his “If I had a son he’d look like Trayvon” comment recently. But it’s ok, because Bigboi is sure the comment “is coming” any day now. If these people weren’t so evil toward George, you could almost feel sorry for them…. Almost….

  33. arkansasmimi says:

    Borrowed from a facebook friend. Just for you Geo and Shellie! And anyone else who needs it!
    Don’t lose hope. When the sun goes down, the stars come out.

  34. MJW says:

    Was the Sam’s Club video given to the defense in and earlier the discovery release from the state? I did a quick check and couldn’t find it. I notice it’s listed as “Sam’s Club (surveillance) video” while another item is listed as “Kohl’s parking lot surveillance video.” I wonder if the difference indicates it’s from inside the store rather than from the parking lot, or if it’s just a meaningless inconsistency.

    • MJW says:

      …in an earlier…

      Curse you, auto-correct!

    • MJW says:

      The “the” between “earlier” and “discovery” is my fault.

      Curse you, fingers!

    • debfrmhell says:

      Inconsistency, IMO. Sam’s requires a membership card. If Martin would have had one his name/picture would be on the backside. They take your mugshot there. LOL.

      The one thing I was looking for on the satellite views of both stores is the mounting for the cameras. I couldn’t see them at Kohls but almost certainly they are there showing the parking and loading bays. You can see the roof mounts at Sam’s that are facing the parking lot. I can’t zoom close enough to see what is over the bays for either store.

      At Lakes Edge, there is nothing blatant about the camera positions either. I thought I could find something around the gates but I didn’t have any luck. I thought the black diamonds on the supporting pillars might be camouflaging the lens but I don’t see an access point for them.

      I must be losing my touch.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Have you looked at this? Diwataman has a picture showing the cameras on the roof of Sam’s Club.

        • debfrmhell says:

          Those are the same views I was looking at thru Google. I think that the camera’s for both Kohl’s and Sam’s that are directed towards the loading bays might be of some interest as they are both closer to Rinehart than the parking lots.

          Martin would have gone around Trustco Bank if he stayed true to the direction we last saw him going in the 7-Eleven video to get into the range of any camera for Sam’s.

          With Kohl’s, who knows? May show him walking on Rinehart. I couldn’t find a roof mounted camera there so they may be mounted over the bay doors/entry doors.

  35. Chip Bennett says:

    @nomatter_nevermind:

    ‘How does it materially impact the events of that evening’

    It doesn’t, absent a time loop.

    What does a time loop matter? Where is the evidence that Zimmerman was ever anywhere other than exactly where he said he was? How does the testimony you quoted materially impact Zimmerman’s testimony regarding where he was, and when?

    ‘or the criminal liability of Zimmerman?’

    It will be one of many things for the triers of fact to consider. How much weight to give it will be up to them.

    Zimmerman clearly does not care to give us a straight story about what happened that night.

    Pure speculation. How do you know that Zimmerman “does not care” to give a straight story? In what way has Zimmerman’s story not been “straight”, with respect to the material events of that night?

    In fact: the testimony you quoted isn’t even immaterially inconsistent. Zimmerman was trying to find an identifying marker to reference, to give as information to the police. If you listen to the NEN call, you can clearly hear that Zimmerman and the NEN operator were not communicating clearly, and Zimmerman was not able to get across his exact location. Based on that part of the conversation, it is entirely consistent and reasonable that Zimmerman would have looked for some way to identify where he was, exactly.

    That will leave judge and jury seeking elsewhere for the truth. In itself, it is evidence for consciousness of guilt.

    Guilt? Guilt for what? For not knowing his condo community well enough to know the number of the building he was behind?

    The claim that the statements you quoted are prima facie evidence of a guilty conscience is utterly specious.

    And this entire line of thinking ignores the fact that Zimmerman does not have the burden of proof, and is afforded the presumption of innocence. By law, without evidence to refute, the State must accept Zimmerman’s testimony as truthful. Whether Zimmerman was looking for a street sign or a house number, the material part of the testimony is that he never left the vicinity, and rather than continuing to attempt to re-establish visual contact with Martin, instead attempted to return to his vehicle.

  36. Chip Bennett says:

    @jello333:

    WHAT ON EARTH?! In my comment just before this one, I suggested that you were probably just playing devil’s advocate. But now I’m not so sure.

    Agreed.

    I contend that these two statements not only are not inconsistent, but in fact are entirely consistent:

    And, so I walked straight through, to see if there was a street sign, that I could tell dispatch where I lost sight of him at.

    …vs…

    So I walked through the dog walk, to see if there was a sign here, or an address that I could make out easier.

    Where is the inconsistency?

    • jello333 says:

      “Street sign”! “Sign”! “Street sign”! See?… Zimmerman now claims he was looking for a sign, because he didn’t know the name of the street, of the very street he lived on… Retreat View Circle! See?… Zimmerman is a LIAR! On the NEN call, when he wouldn’t give Sean the street or the address, George was LYING! It was all part of his plan, so that he could later deny why he REALLY got out of his schruck!

      (And no, my little sarcastic rant was NOT aimed at you, NoMatter. But c’mon, you’re smarter than this. Sheesh…)

      • ejarra says:

        I read that and thought of Tesla:

        Oh, signs, signs, everywhere there’s signs
        Blocking up the scenery, breaking my mind
        Do this, don’t do that, can’t you read the sign?

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        jello333:

        ‘And no, my little sarcastic rant was NOT aimed at you, NoMatter.’

        OK if it was. I have a taste for sarcasm.

        ‘Because I sure don’t wanna believe that any supporters of George would SERIOUSLY be questioning stuff like this.’

        I’m not one of the ‘supporters of George’. I’m not a supporter of the prosecution. I’m just saying what I think.

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      Chip Bennett:

      ‘Where is the inconsistency?’

      Your reading comprehension could use some work.

      I didn’t say the two passages I quoted are inconsistent with one another. Both are examples to show that Zimmerman, in his statements on the night of the shooting, claimed that he did not know that the crosswalk led to Retreat View Circle, and that he went there looking for a sign to identify it.

      That Zimmerman knew that the crosswalk led to Retreat View Circle, was a change in his story, introduced in the reenactment.

      • AghastInFL says:

        I have never read it that way. While George during questioning often mixed up words his statements are consistent, back up a bit and read them all and the story remains the same. I have never understood the parsing that others sieze upon as some form of guilt. I just see a confused and frightened young man.

        • jello333 says:

          “I have never understood the parsing that others sieze upon as some form of guilt. I just see a confused and frightened young man.”

          Ding, ding, ding, ding!! Which makes George… (wait for it)…. HUMAN! (gasp!)

      • Chip Bennett says:

        That Zimmerman knew that the crosswalk led to Retreat View Circle, was a change in his story, introduced in the reenactment.

        And I was supposed to know that this was the conclusion you were drawing… by divination, I suppose? My reading comprehension is in question because I failed to read and comprehend something you didn’t even write? Well-played.

        And again I ask: how would that change in his story be material, even if valid? How does him knowing or not knowing impact the events of that night? What does he gain by knowing or not knowing, or changing his story?

        Again: listen to the NEN call. He was clearly having a difficult time describing his exact location. He went somewhere to try to clarify, by means of a sign. It is entirely consistent with his recorded behavior and communication with the NEN operator.

        There is no material inconsistency here. There isn’t even any immaterial inconsistency here.

        • howie says:

          The reason this is not still headline Newz? Why?

          • jello333 says:

            Because George’s dad (the former Supreme Court justice) and all the Sanford and FDLE cops (including Mulder and Scully) are covering for him. You should know that by now.

        • jello333 says:

          George was CLEARLY having trouble describing his location to Sean. The frustration in his voice is obvious. How anyone can listen to that call and not realize that… well, it’s beyond me.

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          ‘And I was supposed to know that this was the conclusion you were drawing… by divination, I suppose?’

          No. By reading what I quoted from the post I was responding to.

          ‘Once going to RVC which he knew the name of, he would only have been seeking a house number.’

          I quoted two passages from Zimmerman’s early statements in which he indicated that he did not know the name of RVC, and went there looking for sign that would identify it.

          I didn’t quote a passage in which Zimmerman said he did know the name of RVC. Treewig and I agreed that Zimmerman said that in some of his statements.

      • eastern2western says:

        First thing is that I found zimmerman’s inconsistency very normal. For example, I know the streets around my town really well because it is a small town. However, I do not know all of the street names because there is no point for me to remember all of the street names when I already know my directions. every time some one asks me name by name directionof getting to certain destination in the town, I would most likely have to look it up in google because I simply just do not know the names. In conclusion, it is extremely normal for a person who knows the directions, but do not remember the names. That is my opinion.

  37. Chip Bennett says:

    @hooson1st:

    NM_NM’s scrutiny is welcomed.

    Scrutiny is always welcomed.

    Asking if the two statements are consistent is scrutiny, and perfectly reasonable to discuss.

    But to use the two quoted statements to justify the claim that Zimmerman had “no intent to give a straight story” goes far beyond scrutiny, into unsupported speculation. To imply that the alleged inconsistency of the two statements constitute prima facie evidence of a guilty conscience goes beyond speculation, into absurdity.

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