01-17 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done. Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

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378 Responses to 01-17 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. eastern2western says:

    I hope chief lee will eventually sue the scheme team for destroying his career.

    • jello333 says:

      Don’t be surprised if he’s been talking with Beasley.

      • boutis says:

        And they have his day planner of personal notes. It is in currently a vault in Pennsylvania.

      • eastern2western says:

        a law suit should follow because lee followed the law by the tee. he is right because there is absolutely no evidence that dispute zimmerman’s own account of the story. the only new evidence that corey has is the dd narrative which will be challenge heavily by the defense because she came out after the national media basically exposed every detail of the story to the public.

      • howie says:

        I doubt Beasley would invest in this case if they thought Zimmerman would not be acquitted in the criminal case. On the one had BDLR attempts to argue Zimmerman was negligent and culpable in his actions prior to the attack by T-con. He argues that Zimmerman’s actions were not reasonable and that he was criminally negligent. On the other he attempts to argue that Zimmerman’s actions pre-attack rise to the level of criminal intent and Mens Rea.
        My problem with this is that the two arguments are mutually exclusive. He charged 2nd degree murder and argues a negligent manslaughter. I can not understand it. It makes no sense to me.

        • jello333 says:

          Howie, just wanted you to know that I, and probably most people here, totally agree with you. We do NOT understand how this thing is still going on, and we do NOT see any evidence against George. I feel the same frustration you do, I just don’t verbalize it as often as you do. But you’re exactly right. Oh, and did you hear that LetJusticePrevail got your message to Bobby on the radio show the other night? And that in his answer, he AGREED with you?…. That no, there does NOT appear to be any evidence against George. Cool, eh?

    • libby says:

      Erin burnout had a brain when she worked for the communist news network (it seems she had to get a frontal lobotomy in order to fulfill her contract)

    • tara says:

      I hope he sues too.

  2. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    I think that the daily beam of the light of truth is cramping their style at JQ.

    Only a handful of the hopelessly incurable cretins left. And they seem to have forgotten totally that the case is about GZ lol

    They spend almost all their time on RZ,…

    Robert should be congratulated…. He has diverted the simple folk away from anything relevant to the case.

    They went into pre-denial of TM’s school records…. But then got back to RZ

    Random Topics

    • Chip Bennett says:

      They’re still stuck on the “A/B student” thing. Never mind that it is nearly impossible to be an A/B student when one has 53 days of truancy – and more importantly, never mind that the grades he got in school have no bearing on whether or not he committed a felony aggravated battery against Zimmerman on the night in question.

      • mcfyre2012 says:

        Let’s see…53 days of truancy, six weeks of suspension, all in half a school year…and failed the FCAT (Florida Comprehensive Aptitude Test – required to graduate). There’s nothing to indicate he even passed PE, much less have been an A/B student.

      • rumpole2 says:

        Chip…. I sent you a PM at RT K? :D

        • Chip Bennett says:


          I just read it. Isn’t that cute?

          Ad hominem and projection: the primary tools of liberals. Bless their hearts.

          • rumpole2 says:

            Yes. Puerile toilet wall type graffiti.
            I have never done the research.. but I am told that the graffiti in women’s toilets is worse than in men’s? Moreinane Dave would know… he likes to film his vid clips in women’s toilets.
            I have never seen them quote anything I say (or you say) and refute it. In fact that is not how they post. It is almost always ad hominem.
            There “discussion’ of Trayvon is really that too. They like to state how innocent, noble, clever, handsome etc he is… but that is it, no discussion of facts to speak of. They are not allowed to see facts about TM.

            • jello333 says:

              I was kinda surprised by something Bigboi tweeted the other day. It was a quote of what I said here, about how it’s the Defense who now wants to use Dee Dee, and that the State wishes they’d never gotten her involved. Instead of belittling me (like they usually try to do with our posts), she just said something like, “And how do you know that, Jello? Did the prosecutors tell you that?”


              • rumpole2 says:

                They are of the opinion that MoM is getting his ideas from the CTH :D
                I wish it were true at times.
                They themselves get so wrapped up in their own nonsense that they convince themselves of its brilliance. They SAY they are passing all this “Evidence” on to Bernie.. so I guess there will be a discovery document reflecting that soon?

                “State’s 13th Supplementary Discovery:
                LIMPapa Video Mashes
                Moreinane Dave’s “walk through” of the Twin Lake Clubhouse Ladies Toilet
                Papapinhead’s Imaginary playmates in the Clubhouse, plus puerile photo shopping of clown noses on Zimmerman and his lawyers.
                Ludwig’s analysis of NEN call with expose of the 4 accomplices and rampant cockatoo

      • jello333 says:

        These people just do not get it. Do they seriously think MOM/West, or any of us, care about Trayvon’s grades (other than to show that they’ll LIE about everything, incl. the “honor student” narrative)? “Ooh, ooh! Look! Trayvon got a D in Algebra!” Is that what these idiots think we’re looking for?

        • ftsk420 says:

          I could careless about his grades I want to see how many fights he was in. I know growing up in a tough neighborhood I fought in school just about everyday.

      • crossdraw says:

        TM might have been a A B student before he started on the dope and lean and fried his brain

    • arkansasmimi says:

      “Robert should be congratulated…. He has diverted the simple folk away from anything relevant to the case.”

      I have been wondering off and on if that is one of the plans and the whole Dog Pound fell right into the ole poop pile.. LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER :)

      • rumpole2 says:

        I believe Robert is out there trying to counter the propaganda about George, and that may help insure some sort of balance in general public opinion. Of course nothing he says will change the rabid “Hate Zimmerman” crowd now. They can not be re-programmed… their “brains” are very much “Write once”.
        It’s a bonus that they are focusing on what RZ tweets, and posting puerile cheap shot tweets themselves. RZ is not a witness nor part of the case at all, beyond general support of George.

  3. jello333 says:

    (This was a comment I addressed to LetJusticePrevail in the Jan 15th thread, where everyone was talking about the radio show RZ Jr was doing. I’m re-posting it here in case you missed it, since I think we learned something important in something Bobby said on that show.)

    Hey! I’m just now listening to the radio show from last night. Actually, for right now I’m just kinda skimming through it, since it’s so long. Anyway, I think I found the part with you. But if it is…. WHA?! You’re a “he”! ;) You’d think after all these years getting to know people online, I’d have stopped ASSUMING things. Oh well…

    So anyway, what you say here:

    “I expressed our support for him, and our hopes that this is not dropped after George is exonerated. He did not want to speak to the particulars, for obvious reasons, but I got the impression that this will not end after immunity or acquittal.”

    I listened to his answer to that, and I think you’re underestimating what he said. I think he DID, almost explicitly, declare that they’re gonna push things beyond this case. Part of what he said:

    “George is my younger brother, so there’s definitely an insight into our values that we have as a family, collectively. And one of those values, and the reason i fight and the reason that I DON’T stop is because what happened to George, can happen to anybody. Maybe this is my way of changing that lady’s tire on the the road, or maybe this is my own neighborhood watch, so to speak. What happened to George was, and i won’t mince words, in my opinion it was definitely a persecution. It was not a legitimate prosecution. And other people far more learned than I, some of them who are professors at Harvard, would tend to agree with me. Now I’m his brother, I’m biased, that’ll always be a criticism. But I know my brother, I know he told his family the truth. And I’m not gonna stand by and continue accepting the norm that in this America, in our America, your race, no matter what your race is, is a reason to automatically impeach your credibility. In this case, it was that George was ‘white’. In the next case, it may be that whoever is black, brown, whatever color. We have to get past that as a country. And it’s just not, it wouldn’t be fair of me, knowing what I know, to just stand by and do nothing. Because there will be a next George Zimmerman if I do that.”

  4. jordan2222 says:

    I save a lot of posts for future reference. This is one of them

    w comment on The Last Refuge

    sundance commented on 11-30 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread.

    in response to jordan2222:

    SD: Why do you think Crump lied about her age? Was that a way to keep her silent and off limits to the media?

    Jordan – There is no 3/20/12 “DeeDee”. That person described does NOT EXIST. complete, total, fabrication. Keyser Soze.

    …….. then he had to come up with one. So he did.

    Remember between 3/20 and 4/2 Crumps Keyser Soze refused to talk to police, investigators, or authorities. Because there was no actual DeeDee until 4/2/12.

    sundance commented on Trayvon Martin Case Whoopsie – Scheme Team MEGA-Fail: “Dee Dee” is Keyser Soze – Motion to Compel .

    in response to James F:

    Is Nasty Nat referring to CTH here? I thought she never read this site? http://twitter.com/NatJackEsq/status/274769969173114881 http://twitter.com/NatJackEsq/status/274771345118736384

    I will repeat my oft repeated prior statement:

    The person Benjamin Crump described in his 3/20/12 press conference, and whom he named “DeeDee” was/is, correctly identified.
    The person who Benjamin Crump “presented” to Bernie De La Rionda, on 4/2/12 and identified as “DeeDee” is unknown….. to anyone except BDLR and Crump.

    Hence, from the outset we have assembled the entire construct of the “scheme” and the false guise.

    Benjamin Crump, could have looked through a School Yearbook to come up with the identity of his 3/20/12 version (media evidence) DeeDee, who knows. Because it was a complete fabrication. All.of.it.

    I have an idea how he constructed her. A very good idea. But only Crump knows what methods he actually employed to create the fictional character. That, I would surmise, is the standard of inquiry which will be revealed in the deposition he will be subjected to. It will be interesting to see who represents Benjamin Crump as his legal representative in that deposition.

  5. libby says:

    My prayers go out today to a man I consider a hero (not becuase he shot a young troubled man) because he looked out for his neighbors at a time when few do anymore.
    God Bless George Zimmerman.
    My prayers also go out today for a young man whose life was cut tragically short. he was raised without so much of what our youth deserve guidance and the inculcation of moral integrity.
    God Bless Trayvon Martin (it is not your fault you were raised by criminally negligent parents, though you made some mistakes, I pray God can forgive you).
    God grant us the patience to get along with those who are different.
    God grant us the strength to address the most virulent form of hate that largely goes unaddressed in our society, black racism. I believe strongly that all forms of hate, even if understandable, do not lead to positive outcomes and should have that negative energy converted to positive action.
    May God grant us all the will and the strength to address the forms of hate that currently go unaddressed by our educational and other institutions.
    Oh, and God, if we could get some warm weather for parts of the country that have suffered this cold snap, I am certain it would be appreciated.

  6. MuayTyson says:

    I know this is asking a lot but could we have a some kind of chart about who is sueing(or should sue) whom? I think there is a lot of civil cases here and totaly agree that Chief Lee should sue. There has been so much harm done to so many innocent people I hope they get just a bit of justice. Thank you.

    • ejarra says:

      I doubt a chart that large and complex would fit on a computer screen. We’ll just have to wait for the movie. Think of all the news organizations (radio, TV and print), politicians, blogsters (yes, they can be sued). Now think of all the people who have been harmed like Georgie, Robert, his family, Taffee, Capt. Lee, Osterman (via doxing), etc. Then cross reference them all. No, a chart just ain’t gonna cut it.

  7. canadacan says:

    And Fred Mertz is suing everybody in general. A classic line from an old I Love Lucy Show where they are in a courtroom scene., I hope all the offended parties on Georgiside become multi millionaires.I have had to stay away from this site lately because it is so heart wrenching. I knew that DD thing was made out of pure. Cloth it was all a hoax.

  8. nomatter_nevermind says:

    On a thread a couple of days ago, some folks were asking if Brandy and Chad were interviewed by LE.

    I don’t think SPD ever did, but their SAO interviews are summarized on p. 32 and p. 39 of the July 12 evidence release (284 page pdf).

    There was some discussion of the interviews on a TalkLeft thread.

    • nettles18 says:

      You’ll note from Chad’s statement that he contradicts Tracy about Friday night. Chad tells investigators his mother dropped them off at an NBA event. Tracy says Trayvon stayed in the hotel Friday night due to the convention. On page 32, Brandy admits Trayvon was in Sanford without his father and says the coach took Chad to his game on Saturday. Did the coach drive the hour to the hotel to pick Chad up? For a game that Tracy says they attended too. Doubtful. Also, Tracy says (Page 40) the last time he saw his son was Saturday night, the night of Chad’s football game. Brandy says (page 32) they saw them when they arrived home early Sunday morning and found them sleeping. Trayvon’s cousin (Page 9) says they woke up real early on Sunday and went to the store. He then dropped Trayvon off back at Brandy’s and headed home to Miami before 8:30 a.m.

      • nettles18 says:

        It’s unlikely that Brandy & Tracy left the convention that weekend to attend Chad’s Saturday night football game. According to this link below, people who sign up for the conventions are fined $100 from the men AND women’s department heads, if they leave for any reason except to attend a funeral.

        “No one should have any function going on for any convention weekend day or night for fundraising or otherwise. The only thing that is accepted is a funeral and no one has control of that but God. If you do so, you will have to pay a $100 fine to both the male and femal department heads of that particular convention.”

        Brandy and Tracy went to the Grant Joint Council Convention in Kissimmee, FL. The convention started at 6pm on Friday night and ended at 3pm on Sunday. They would have had to pay a $200 fine each to attend Chad’s football game that according to Brandy, his coach took him to.


        • jello333 says:

          That’s the first I’ve see that. Nice catch. So no, I’d be VERY surprised if they were willing to pay those kinds of fines just to go to a little-league football game. (And by the way, nice little money-making scam that so-called “masons” organization has going, eh?)

        • maggiemoowho says:

          TM was with other people from Miami on Friday. A friend of his Je’nae wrote on her FB timeline on Feb 27, 2012:
          “this sh*t gotta stop mann!!!! why is we killn our own kind?? DAMN bruh i was just wit yu Fridayy! I Love Yu Tray,”
          (I have the screen shot but not sure if I’m allowed to post it because it has her photo and name and I’m not sure if she is a minor)

          For thought, because this was happening that same weekend,
          Nike released a new shoe on February 23, there was a huge riot at the Orlando Mall over these shoes and Nike decided to cancel the event. People came from all over to try and buy these shoes.

      • tara says:

        I just noticed your post at 11:17am. I submitted a very similar one after 2pm. What strikes me as so funny is that I used nearly the same format as you did, and I was concerned about the very same thing. It probably looks like I copied you but I was off in my own world researching and typing and re-typing my comment for more than an hour. I had to laugh when I saw your post. :)

  9. nomatter_nevermind says:

    I’ve almost finished listening to the episode of The Randy Hahn Agenda. After RZ left, Trent Sawyer called. I was surprised to hear a line with n*. I thought Sawyer had provoked that after they were off the air. But Randy Hahn is proudly displaying it on his site (188:18-22).

    ‘That little n* boy got, deserved to be shot.’

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      Not so much. After posting the last, I found it’s been taken down.

      • John Galt says:

        Probably realized his error: Trayvon was not little.

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        This is hilarious.

        Hahn and a lady whose name I didn’t catch were the last remaining voices. Sawyer had mocked them for not recognizing the name of The Retreat at Twin Lakes. After he was off, they started wondering if there really is such a place. But they forgot the full name, googled ‘Twin Lakes’, and found one in Wisconsin.

    • nomatter_nevermind says:

      As I listened to Robert Zimmerman talk about George’s Quest for the Holy Address, I realized what question I would have like to have asked him.

      Did George get the address, or not?

  10. eastern2western says:

    after listening to the hahn show, I am very entertained by some of the bizarro causes of the trayvonites.
    1) guilty of getting out of his car and pursuing trayvon. basically we can ignore everything else such as the fight etc.
    2) self inflicted injuries because of no dna evidence. entertaining and the caller was very sure about his assertions,
    3) photo shopped court evidence. this lady was a classic trayvnonite because she claimed the original was b/w and it was photo shopped back into color.
    4) teenager reaction from trent sawyer. basically, he did a cover with a race question, then he just told the show f off. trent was so scared to lose his argument that he ran with his tail between his legs. such teenager attack from an old man. I am sure he was busy watching them cctv tapes and typing up his notes.
    5) trayvon was an angel and zimmerman was the thug. lets see what the school records will show. if the kid were such an angel, then the school would probably no had spent so much time in blocking the release of his records.
    6) stupid morons just want to keep talking and cover their ears just to prevent robert zimmerman from counter their buffonish reasonings.
    well, we are all racist because we make fun of them. since trent is white, he calls us homophobes because the moron can not use the race card. they are completely okay with the new black panthers wanting to kill white babies, but call any one a racist bigot for counterring their arguments.

  11. tara says:

    I was just thinking, investigators had stated in one of their reports (part of the 284-page discovery doc collection) that DD’s phone had no name associated with the account and it was a pre-paid type phone. They did receive the cell phone records from Simple Mobile (a prepaid division of T-Mobile) showing all of the phone activity from Feb 26 to Apr 2. Are we going to be able to see this? Without a name on the account, we have no idea who was actually talking to Trademark the night he was killed.

    I do think the 16 year old DD is the phone owner, but because she was just a casual friend she wasn’t traumatized by his death. I think she was correctly outed on the internet. She was lacking the emotion Crump needed to garner the public’s support, so he wanted to portray her as a grieving girlfriend. I don’t think he actually asked her if she was his girlfriend during the Mar 19 interview though, he mentioned it in the press conference on Mar 20. I think after the interview she and her parents freaked out because she became national news. They realized that she would need to be interviewed by investigators and possibly testify in court. They weren’t willing to go that far.

    I believe that the 18 year old who was interviewed by BDLR was a ringer. Sybrina told investigators that she had DD come to her apartment, and another girl showed up, never identified. Maybe that was the 18 year old? A friend or relative of DD? When DD got cold feet Team Skittles had to find a replacement. They couldn’t find another 16 year old but they did have an 18 year old willing to stand in. They knew that the her age would be verified so they didn’t bother to have her lie about it, they just hoped that the public wouldn’t notice. (DId any media outlet mention the age discrepancy?) The 18 year old was prep’d and sent in to have her easy interview with BDLR, but she still failed. She couldn’t remember much of what she was supposed to say and so BDLR had to feed her most of it. She also added extra details harmful to the prosecution, e.g., Trademark was “right by” Brandy’s apartment, thus establishing that Trademark backtracked to confront GZ rather than run to safety.

    This might explain O’Mara’s strange statement about doxing. I always interpreted it as indicating that Team Skittles had vaguely threatened him with an accusation of witness intimidation, but was Team Skittles actually claiming that the girl outed as DD wasn’t the right girl? It makes sense a ringer is now the official DD. None of us know who the ringer is. We don’t her name or any details about her, only her age.

    Can Crump be called as a witness in court? Can GZ’s defense team ask Crump why he described DD, and why Matt Gutman described DD, as being 16?.

    I still can’t figure out why the real DD didn’t tell Trademark’s family that she had spoken to Trademark the night he was killed. She was present at the funeral and met Trademark’s family, according to Trademark’s cousin who stated on the Nancy Grace show that he met her there. But … maybe she DID tell them. Maybe Tracy Martin didn’t discover her on Mar 18 as Crump claimed, but they both met her on Mar 4. They just weren’t able to access the phone records until Mar 18.

    • John Galt says:

      “They did receive the cell phone records from Simple Mobile (a prepaid division of T-Mobile) showing all of the phone activity from Feb 26 to Apr 2. Are we going to be able to see this? Without a name on the account, we have no idea who was actually talking to Trademark the night he was killed.”

      My understanding is that cell phone records will be maintained as confidential unless and until they are offered as evidence. When BDLR asked DD if her name was on the account, she said something like, “it should be NOW”. Of course BDLR didn’t ask whose name was on the account on February 26.

      “Can Crump be called as a witness in court? Can GZ’s defense team ask Crump why he described DD, and why Matt Gutman described DD, as being 16?.”

      The Court put Crump on the witness list and ordered that he submit to deposition. I expect that Crump will attempt to limit the scope of his deposition to the DD interview, but IMHO he can be asked questions regarding any subject (including his myriad falsehoods) reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. I expect a court battle over the scope of Crump’s deposition.

      • tara says:

        She said “Now, it should be, I think”. Not sure if she meant “now” as in “at this moment” or just as a filler like “uh”. But I guess it doesn’t matter. How hard would it be for someone to give their prepaid phone to another person? I’ve never had a prepaid phone, can anyone put money on the account? Maybe that’s one of the things they used to entice the 18 year old into being the ringer? A free phone?

        • tara says:

          Another question … for a prepaid phone, is there no requirement at all for the user to identify herself? We would only be able to tell if the phone was transfered by looking at the incoming and outgoing calls. There would surely be a distinct shift in the pattern. The investigators only asked for records from Feb 26 to Apr 2, the date of BDLR’s interview. If they gave the phone to ringer-DD on Apr 2 after her performance, there would be no record of the shift.

          • howie says:

            How can they prove DD was the one on the phone? I still think that T-con was trying to set up a drug deal as a middleman between Miami and Orlando. That is just a hunch.

        • John Galt says:

          “How hard would it be for someone to give their prepaid phone to another person”

          Might just need the SIM card.

          • libby says:

            might not even need that. here, take my phone…

            • tara says:

              That’s what I was thinking. And then they added the ringer’s name to the account to make it look legit. Oh man I would love love love to see the phone records for several months before and after Apr 2 !

    • John Galt says:

      “They just weren’t able to access the phone records until Mar 18.”

      The records produced by Crump were from Tracy’s online T-Mobile account. The cops asked him for Trayvon’s phone PIN on March 5th. I have no doubt that Tracy had access to the call records as of early March. IMHO, the DD antics and Crump’s lie about Wolfinger were calculated to avoid a grand jury.



      • tara says:

        You’re right. It was Tracy’s account and he always had access to the phone billing records.

        I think DD did tell Trademark’s family and Team Skittles at the funeral on Mar 4 that she had spoken to Trademark that night. They must have accessed the billing records that evening But they didn’t have Trademark’s phone, FDLE had it, and they didn’t know at that time that FDLE was going to find out who Trademark had spoken to. So they just kept silent. They waited until it was obvious that FDLE wasn’t able to access the information. Meanwhile, they planned to present DD as the grieving girlfriend and she and her family were initially on board because they were convinced by Team Skittles that this was an incident of Emmett Till proportions and it was imperative that GZ be brought to “justice”.

        I need to look at the discovery docs again to see the statements about Trademark’s phone. I want to see the dates of the attempts. Was it just before Mar 18, the day Tracy “discovered” DD?

    • jello333 says:

      That might also explain the “I got guilt”, the “yeah, real guilty” comments DeeDee2 made right at the end of the Bernie interview. Maybe it was her way of kinda covering herself, in case the truth ever came out. Her way of saying, “I really, REALLY don’t wanna be doing this. Why did I let them talk me into this.”

      • libby says:

        If she was doing the right thing, any guilt she might have ought to be assauged.
        If she was NOT doing the right thing, then her guilt would likely increase.
        God is watching us all. God knows what we are up to.
        God knows what is in our hearts.
        Nothing can be hidden from God.
        IMO, George Zimmerman has little to fear when he meets his maker (I pray that not happen any time soon).
        The Martins/Fukltons have a lot to answer to in the next life. Though shall not bear false witness (unless there is a ghetto payday at the end)

      • tara says:

        Team Skittles will concoct some story to explain her silence, that’s for sure. But DD shouldn’t feel guilty, the police arrived so quickly and Trademark couldn’t be saved. The fact that the parents didn’t find out until Sunday morning is the parents’ fault, both parents for not putting some kind of ID on Trademark, and Tracy’s fault for letting his son rot in the morgue for 12 hours before bothering to look for him (and he only did so then because they were supposed to drive back to Miami).

        We know Team Skittles will claim that DD was afraid to tell anyone anything because of evil whites. Of course that won’t explain why she didn’t even tell her parents (unless they’re white), but they’ll gloss over that problem like they gloss over every other problem. Hey, if they can gloss over a 2 year ageing in 1 month, they can gloss over anything.

  12. diwataman says:

    Good news folks. The dry spell has ended. O’Mara actually filed something with the court.

    01/16/2013 Notice of Taking Deposition


    • rumpole2 says:

      Thanks DMan…. Depo not motion for hearing… but I’ll take a look.

    • nettles18 says:

      According the the Orlando Sentinel this was a deposition held on December 11th of Witness 6 and his financee, W17. The paperwork was filed yesterday.


      • diwataman says:

        Hey whaddya know, I was wondering where Rene went, knew she’d come through, good for something anyway.

        And hey! It’s the first time this sentence makes sense to add, even though it’s like in every one of her posts anyway because Trayvon being black is the most important thing of all and we need to be reminded of it in every article;

        “Trayvon, an unarmed black 17-year-old from Miami Gardens, was wearing a dark gray hoodie.”

        • tara says:

          ROFL, unarmed and black! Double whammy. It must be painful for her to have to report details which support GZ’s claim of self defense.

          • diwataman says:

            Yep, it’s in practically every article by Jeff and Rene. Black, unarmed, 17.

            Black, to keep the racial narrative going.

            Unarmed, to create the illusion there was no assault and to graft unto Trayvon a sense innocence.

            17, to maintain a sense of child like innocence.

            “Zimmerman” “Trayvon” “Zimmerman” “Trayvon” “Zimmerman” “Trayvon” “Zimmerman” “Trayvon” “Zimmerman” “Trayvon” “Zimmerman” “Trayvon”

            • tara says:

              The Team SKittles fans are upset with Stutzman for reporting facts. Check out the responses to her Twitter tease for the article regarding the witness deposition.

            • jello333 says:

              Yep. You know a few days ago when I was debating with you and some other guys about whether or not Rene has changed her stripes? Well, at least in some respects, you guys were obviously right. She makes sure we know Trayvon was black, that he was “unarmed”… oh, and of course, that he WAS “Trayvon”. He had no last name, he was just wee, innocent “Travyon”. And that Zimmerman guy?… does he have a first name?

        • ejarra says:

          It still pisses me off they use the picture of 12 year old Mr. Martin instead of a more recent one like the 7-11 one. Also, it irks me that they still call Georgie “Zimmerman” and Mr. Martin “Trayvon”. The is only one reason for this.

          • diwataman says:

            Yes but what’s good is that your aware of it. It’s like being able to see inside the soul of the writer and arms you against the subliminal message they are trying to send. Just replace “George” in your mind every time you see “Zimmerman”. At least they aren’t as bad as Fred Leatherman and his ilk which have completely abandon any use of George’s name in any form for some silly replacement meant to convey some crap I’ve forgotten now.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              They use the name “Fogen” which I mentally translate as an acronym for:
              “Favorite Of God Especially Now”

      • diwataman says:

        And,oh crap…ugh, I see now the dry spell being broken was just an illusion, a mirage in this dry desert of court activity. Dang, the countdown continues.

        —–10 Days—-

      • rumpole2 says:

        Thanks for the link

      • rumpole2 says:

        I have no doubt that over in the Zone, just on the basis of what this witness is likely to testify to, they are reaffirming their denial of this witness’s evidence.
        Given their mindset, it’s not surprising that they downplay or deny evidence that is in George’s favour. But wouldn’t you think that for some the penny would drop?
        There is a pattern here……
        ALL the evidence that is coming out confirms GZ’s case.
        Time to abandon the theory in light of ALL the facts, rather than denying the facts that don’t fit.
        NONE of the facts fit the Traybot notions
        To persist with them is delusional and/or to be wilfully stupid.

        • ftsk420 says:

          I think a lot of the Traybots can’t handle the heat that comes with defending George. They don’t want to be called racists or uncle Toms.

          • rumpole2 says:

            They have taken to calling me a racist??
            There is zero evidence of that in my posting, I would submit. And they have no idea about my “real life” in NZ where I am demonstrably not racist.
            I think that those who throw the insult out there are racist themselves for doing so. To suppose that all all criticism of TM is because he is black.. is to assume that negatives are part of being black.

            • ftsk420 says:

              That’s all they seem to do is call people racist I know since I started following this I have been called racist a million times but anyone who knows me knows that’s the last thing I am.

            • jello333 says:

              Yep. Back when I was an Obama supporter, I was cool with all them… they liked me just fine. But as soon as I turned against him, I became a flaming racist, even a “nightrider”. Funny how that works.

              • justfactsplz says:

                “Nightrider”, I like it, I like it a lot. I can just see you cruising the night for your cause.

                • jello333 says:

                  Most of us only vaguely recognized the term when a couple of them first started throwing it at us. But we quickly figured it out. One definition:

                  One of a secret band of mounted, usually masked white men who engaged in nocturnal terrorism for revenge or intimidation in the southern United States especially during Reconstruction, usually aimed at blacks or their white supporters.

                  Yeah, there were scum at Daily Kos who called other members that… and largely got away with it. A couple banned, a few slapped on the hand. But for the most part, nothing. Oh, and there was worse than that, but it’s a long story and no point in getting into it…

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    There was a time when I read that site every day just to see how extreme they could get. I realized that making any kind of post would not make any sense so I just read. I do recall they had some unusual things about the Martin case. That is where I found those paintings I posted here a couple of times, if you recall.

                  • jello333 says:

                    I made a handful of short comments in some of those TM/GZ diaries, but quickly realized there was no point. For every person like me trying to set the record straight, there were easily 20 or more refusing to listen, or just plain attacking. I knew that if I kept it up, I’d likely get myself banned (since I wasn’t gonna be able to stay calm after awhile). Now of course I got banned a few months later anyway, for different reasons…. so had I known that was coming, I might have gotten more into the TM/GZ diaries.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Here are the paintings. They are powerful images:


                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah I remember those… they’re something else. But “Daily Beast” (where those pics are)… that’s not the site you were talking about, was it? Because the one I’m talking about is “Daily Kos”.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Now I am not sure but I thought I saw it first at Kos.

            • diwataman says:

              Dude, really? Maybe it’s a cultural thing that makes me think you might not see this thing completely for what it is but the simple fact that you post on this site makes you racist, the simple fact that you post anything in George’s defense makes you racist.

              The reason is not merely because the Scheme Team injected the racial narrative into the story but because society believes it to begin with, especially black society. Black people will always be the victim in America, ALWAYS.

              Trayvon was killed because we live in a racist country. Trayvon can not get justice because we live in a racist country. And by doing what you are doing, you are supporting that.

              • howie says:

                I am thinking the motive may be fear. Of losing the excuse. I don’t think any government could ever do anything more to try and help. It may now be up to them to help themselves. That could be a scary thought for them. Hard to let go of.

              • rumpole2 says:

                I do get it. Online I have been mixing it with US peeps for 4 years.. and followed US news and politics for years before that.
                I get what people are saying and why they say it. I understand their motives and motivations more than they do themselves in many instances.
                We do have the same problem in NZ. with the indigenous (sort of, they were immigrants once too) Maori people. Same thing…. a big grievance industry and people with emotional and financial interest in keeping grievances alive. Prominant race baiters who stir the pot at every opportunity.
                It’s just that I am not racist.. treat people as individuals. I have lived in places where I am the minority (lone individual) race.
                The dopey woman who labelled me as racist has issues of her own… and is on very shaky ground levelling personal comments at me. People in glass houses should not throw stones. She drags her own personal grievances, relationship issues and medication issues and hypochondriasis around with her… complaining of abuse as a child, alcoholic father etc etc etc… victim-hood for herself and others is her Raison d’être and something she transfers to others. The fact that she regards any criticism of a black person as being BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK speaks to her own racism in assuming that.

        • jello333 says:

          The mistake you’re making, is that you haven’t noticed it’s January 17th today. Which means we’re one day closer to justice for Trayvon. (At least I think that’s what I’ve heard…)

          • rumpole2 says:

            If they were to boast “One Day Closer to the Lynchin’ of Zimmerman” they would not sound quite as daft. That is what they are questing for
            Trayvon is dead!
            Nothing they say or do in the Trayvon Zone changes that. He has had his “Justice” or otherwise. It is now all about Lynching George.

      • howie says:

        Interesting that the prosecutors were present for the interview. But the defense was not present for the DD interview, or the Prosecutor interview of the witness. What up with that?

      • jordan2222 says:

        The word “profiling” has now been made out to be an official crime. Yet those who say they don’t profile are either blind or lying.

        I am still a bit amazed that the charging document uses the word in that context to at least imply it is a criminal activity since ALL cops profile. They are trained to look out for suspicious behavior and they all notice race.

        Sorry but seeing a black person in an all white neighborhood will arouse suspicious and most white folks avoid communities that are 100 percent black. Cops notice these things.

        While this was not a white community, any person looking into other people’s windows would naturally get attention from most onlookers.

        I would love to see just one article address the profiling issue, specifically in this case.

        • howie says:

          Prowlers. It appeared he was a prowler. The running confirmed it. DD was designed to try and negate that. That is the whole reason for DD. If she is not admitted or proven to be a hoax the case is over for the state.

        • howie says:

          For example….

          Grand Prairie Police seek help in identifying prowler in Coronado Woods subdivision
          194 4 comments (1)
          By Christina Rosales
          9:03 am on June 1, 2012 | Permalink

          Suspected prowler

          Grand Prairie police are requesting the public’s help in identifying a man who residents say has been lurking at night in their neighborhood for the past few months.

          Residents in the Coronado Woods subdivision around South Carrier Parkway and Crosslands Boulevard have reported seeing the prowler for several months, according to police, who said the investigation is ongoing.

          A surveillance video, which has a time stamp of early Tuesday morning, was taken by a resident in the area and shows a man in his early-20s walking through a fenced backyard.

          Police have provided this description:
          Described as a white male, approximately 18 – 21 years old, wears glasses. He has a thin mustache, chin hair, thin build with slightly large ears.

          Anyone with information about this offense or the identity of the suspect is asked to call
          the Grand Prairie Police Tip line at 972-237-8877.

        • diwataman says:

          Okay, if someone can prove me wrong here I would love to hear it but before this case have you ever heard someone accused of “profiled him as a criminal” without it meaning “racial profiling”, from a prosecutor or anyone for that matter? EVER?!

          I swear that Bernie purposefully uses the world to insinuate racism, would he say it if Trayvon were white? That’s also why O’Mara went after Gilbreath for it in the Affidavit, who of course acted like he didn’t know what O’Mara was talking about, what an a-hole, and if you notice the word “profiled” is not qualified in the affidavit with “as a criminal”.

    • jello333 says:

      Yay! You did it, DMan! MOM couldn’t take the pressure any longer! ;)

      (But seriously though, even though I jab you a little about this, I think you’ve got a legit point you’re making when you complain about MOM. I’m just messin’ with you.)

  13. JW says:

    Does anyone know if there is an official list of people present during Crump’s interview of DD? Thanks in advance.

  14. tara says:

    Not really consequential, but I just noticed that Brandy told investigators (page 32 of the 284-page discovery doc bundle) that she and Tracy went back to her apartment on Sunday morning, that Trademark, Chad, and the cousin were all sleeping, and later that evening she and Tracy went out to dinner. But Chad (page 39) never mentions that Brandy and Tracy came back to the apartment on Sunday morning, he only mentions that the cousin left. And Tracy told investigators (page that and then went out again that evening. But Tracy told investigators (page 40) that the last time he saw Trademark was Saturday night.

    By the way, Chad also mentions that he called Trademark while Trademark was out getting the food. Trademark told him that it was raining and he was on his way back. Chad says that Brandy returned to the apartment that evening (Sunday evening) but doesn’t mention Tracy. I’m surprised that anyone could go to bed that night, Tracy claims that he was wondering where Trademark was, Chad surely told Tracy that Trademark had told him he was on his way home from the 7-11 but hours later still hadn’t arrived … and nobody went out looking for Trademark? Even thinking that maybe he’d been hit by a car? Especially after Tracy (so he claims) attempted to contact Trademark and got no answer? Nobody was worried??? WHAT’S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???? Sorry for shouting, but the discrepancies in their stories (the degree of care that they claim compared to the degree of care that they exhibit) is absolutely stunning! DD too! She talks to Trademark all freaking day long and hears him get into a scuffle and then the call cuts off, but she doesn’t follow up afterward? Neither she nor her family contacted the police when she found out Trademark had been killed??

    • ftsk420 says:

      I remember reading that after Tracy tried to call Trayvon and got no answer he turned off his phone and went to bed.

      • tara says:

        Yes, he did say that. He said he tried to call Trademark, then tried to call Trademark’s cousin. Cousin told Tracy that Trademark wasn’t with him. THEN Tracy went to bed. I remember Tracy said that it wasn’t the first time Trademark had stayed out all night.

        I’m beginning to think that Tracy was in Orlando on Sunday night, that only Brandy returned to the apartment. When she found that Trademark wasn’t home and Chad told her that Trademark had gone to the 7-11 but never came home, Brandy called Tracy and Tracy tried to contact Trademark. Brandy must not have considered Trademark as an innocent child, so she wasn’t concerned that he wasn’t at the apartment and wasn’t reachable. She didn’t go out looking for him. You’d think that she could have at least considered that he was the victim of an accident and traced the expected path between her apartment and the 7-11, she would have at least seen evidence that something happened practically in her own back yard.

        • howie says:

          This thing stinks to high heaven from the start. Whew!

          • tara says:

            It really does, doesn’t it. This must irk Crump to no end, he and Team Skittles have tried so hard to portray Trademark and his parents as a loving and caring close family. Lil Trademark, candy-toting kindergartner skipping through the condo complex when he was suddenly gunned down. They’ve worked especially hard to portray Tracy Martin as a doting father who took Trademark to Sanford to have a heart-to-heart discussion and set Trademark back on the right path. (I just laughed out loud after typing that!) It makes me realize just how much of a racist money-grubbing hack Crump is. He was so eager to represent Sybrina and Tracy Till and their deceased son Traymitt, so eager to be the lead in this civil rights case of epic proportions, wastebaskets overflowing with money, giant cardboard checks from wherever made out to CRUMP (and, oh yah, the parents), he had a dream, a dream that some day he’d be hanging out with Jackson and Sharpton full time, maybe even having his own show on MSNBC ……

            • hooson1st says:


              The contradictions in the various accounts of Tracy’s movements that fateful weekend that you cite are accurate and provide ample reason to exercise caution as to the probity of any statements made by Trayvon’s parents.

              Your insights into exactly what Mr. Crump is thinking, and dreaming of, bespeak of extraordinary perceptive abilities on your part. :)

              • tara says:

                I cannot take credit for my assessment. :) I’m able to see what’s going on only because I utilize the information provided by the other fine people who run and provide comments on this web site!

            • ftsk420 says:

              Crump forgot about the internet and how powerful it really is.

            • jordan2222 says:

              I have a vivid imagination but Crump having his own TV show is not within my jurisdiction.

              What on earth could he talk about that anyone would ever understand?

              This could and should be the end of his illustrious career. If he does not get disbarred, then no else should either. How could you ever measure the damage he has done, not only to George and his family but also to many others including Florida citizens who are paying for this charade.

              I would mention the irreparable harm to race relations but my guess is that a lot of folks like any chance of improved race relations being destroyed.

      • nettles18 says:

        and in this interview we learn the next morning (Feb. 27th) his first call to find TM after learning he wasn’t with his respectable cousin was to get Brandy to contact juvenile justice.

        “Tracy Martin and his girlfriend went to bed. But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house. Tracy called his nephew again, this time reaching him and learning that Trayvon wasn’t with him.
        “I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA publishers. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.
        “My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report.””


        • tara says:

          Yes, “picked up” Not hit by a car, abducted, or otherwise an innocent victim of an accident or a crime. “Picked up” as in was caught in the middle of commiting a crime or engaging in some other type of deliquency. It’s not just Brandy who didn’t view Trademark as an innocent child.

          • nettles18 says:

            One might think Tracy was suspcious of his son’s behavior the prior day. He obviously thought he got up to no good.

            • arkansasmimi says:

              How many of you treepers or lurkers, when you try to get ahold of your 17 yr old, and dont, just turn phone off and go to bed when dont get an answer. The whole turned my ph off by TrayDad was just plain stupid. Esp considering what had happened. Thats like neglect right there to me. What if ” TM” had tried to call Dad because he was scared or hurt or tried to call back when saw missed call and found out “dad phone supposedly off” Thats neglect right there, IMHO

              • libby says:

                child neglect isnt a crime is it? only if white people do it?
                I was surprised the news media clowns who intervieweed tracey martin didnt have their jaws drop on the floor when he said he called, got no answer, turned off his phone and went to bed.
                if the nannies who watch the kids of these journalists didnt answer on the first or 2nd ring, they would be out of work, but they think tracey martin is father of the year since he couldnt give a hoot about his kid

        • eastern2western says:

          odd, the first numbers he called are crime related.

          • tara says:

            Telling. :) I wonder if this will come up in court. WIll Tracy take the stand? Will GZ’s defense team, in an attempt to establish that Trademark was a troublemaker, ask Tracy why he assumed Trademark had gotten into trouble rather than assume he’d been a victim?

            • howie says:

              I don’t see how it does. If the state can not make a prima facia case on the elements of 2nd degree murder it will be dismissed. The states evidence exonerates so far. Their case is going down the tubes.

              • tara says:

                I’m not saying I’m suspicious of Nelson, but it does make me uncomfortable that she alone will decide whether or not GZ is immune to prosecution. I’m assuming her decision cannot be appealed.

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  I’m assuming her decision cannot be appealed.

                  While I am unsure of the timing of such an appeal, Nelson’s immunity hearing ruling absolutely can be appealed – and will be, if she rules Zimmerman does not have immunity.

                  • howie says:

                    Right. She can rule however she wants. But it will be appealed to the District court. Plus Corey would have to put her cards on the table.

                  • tara says:

                    Oh you guys, thank you for posting that! It makes me feel a lot better to know that the immunity decision can be appealed!

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah Tara, it’s just one reason a lot of us here are so confident. (Of course we’re still working on DMan! ;) ) And for me personally, another reason I’m so confident is Dee Dee and Crump. No matter what the State does with those two, they’re in trouble. If they try to make them disappear, so they can’t be deposed, the case is over. On the other hand, if they allow them to be deposed, the evidence of a conspiracy is gonna become even more crystal clear than it already is. So I just don’t see how this even gets TO the immunity hearing…. let alone beyond it.

            • jordan2222 says:

              It was Sunday so doncnha think it’s odd he did not call any of the local churches?

              • libby says:

                Thanks. That was some hearty humor.
                lotta churches down heya in florida (and traydaddy knew trayvon wasnt at any one of them).
                he was an academic scholar and a saint (so, why didn’t traydad call the school? trayvon mighta broke into the school library cuz he was so eager to read more)

      • nomatter_nevermind says:

        Tracy told an interviewer that when he couldn’t reach Trayvon, he thought Trayvon must have turned off his phone, probably because he was in a movie theater. Many people have misread that as saying Tracy turned off his own phone.

  15. partyof0 says:

    Any Legal Eagles out there….Is there a date for a “show-cause hearing” to challenge the “probable cause affidavit” set or has that date or ability to challenge passed….just wondering if the defense passed that opportunity a while back at the very beginning or IS that date set in the next few months and is titled as some part of a later hearing…can there possibly be a challenge in the final witness list court hearing scheduled for March 27?

    • howie says:

      It has to be set up if after arraignment. The defense would request it and the court would set a date I think. Other wise a motion to dismiss will be offered after the state rests at trial.

      • partyof0 says:

        The question was brought up the middle of last year and according to the States PCA…a blogger wrote…

        “‘has the state produced sufficient evidence (undisputed or not ) to:

        a. Establish the requirements of the charging document?
        b. Disqualify a SYG defense.

        As I understand your explanation I could be charged with murdering someone who was 2500 miles away from me at the time of his death based only on the fact I didn’t like them, airplanes exist and some passengers when presented with my voice samples, have differing opinions about my possible presence on various flights.

        I would have no recourse except trial?”

        The debate there says…IMO…that this IS going to trial because the State of Florida can, as Alan Dershowitz says…”indict a Ham Sandwich”…and, I’m just sarcastically (not) quoting…”We (the State) can just make things up as we go along”

        • howie says:

          I think a motion to dismiss can be made pre-trial. Within the rules, if the motion is not made at arraignment or within 48 hours, the defense must ask for a hearing on it. Most defense attorneys make a motion to dismiss at the end of the states case and before the defense case starts anyway. To protect themselves.

          In this case it is like the cops found a body on the side of the road and arrested the next passing motorist. At least it seems that bad to me.

          • hooson1st says:

            I am not sure about Florida law, but in the federal court, if there is lack of evidence, the defense can make a motion for a summary judgement prior to any trial.

            • John Galt says:


              See Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.190 (c) (4):

              (c) Time for Moving to Dismiss. Unless the court grants further time, the
              defendant shall move to dismiss the indictment or information either before or at
              arraignment. The court in its discretion may permit the defendant to plead and thereafter to file a motion to dismiss at a time to be set by the court. Except for objections based on fundamental grounds, every ground for a motion to dismiss that is not presented by a motion to dismiss within the time hereinabove provided shall be considered waived. However, the court may at any time entertain a motion to dismiss on any of the following grounds:


              (4) There are no material disputed facts and the undisputed facts do not
              establish a prima facie case of guilt against the defendant.

            • howie says:

              Here too, but that is in a civil case. In criminal they call it a motion to dismiss. It would have to be based on the evidence offered by the state in the information. It has to show that the undisputed evidence does not prove a prima facia case of guilt on the charged offense. There could be no dispute on the material facts. I doubt it would be made prior to the court deciding what can, or can not come in. See #4

              c) Time for Moving to Dismiss. Unless the court grants further time, the defendant shall move to dismiss the indictment or information either before or at arraignment. The court in its discretion may permit the defendant to plead and thereafter to file a motion to dismiss at a time to be set by the court. Except for objections based on fundamental grounds, every ground for a motion to dismiss that is not presented by a motion to dismiss within the time hereinabove provided shall be considered waived. However, the court may at any time entertain a motion to dismiss on any of the following grounds:
              (1) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant has been pardoned.
              (2) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant previously has been placed in jeopardy.
              (3) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant previously has been granted immunity.
              (4) There are no material disputed facts and the undisputed facts do not establish a
              prima facie case of guilt against the defendant.

              If Zimmerman had had a lawyer ahead of time I doubt it would have gotten this far.

          • partyof0 says:

            I have NO faith in the courts or the Judges down there…just kowtowing to politcs and fear of rioting…

            • howie says:

              This case really looks bad doesn’t it. Judge thrown out. Prosecutor threatens to sue Harvard Law School. Crump trying to make money. Trash can tours. Good Grief. What next?

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Party – In the past, I would have had doubts about “asking for a lawyer”, if I were innocent, and “charged” with something – or anything. Now, I would answer a few questions, and state that a totally INNOCENT person (George) answered all questions accurately – and they threw a “loaded” book at him. Now, I would say, after a few questions, “I WILL answer all your questions, but I want to be TECHNICALLY ACCURATE, so I need to answer through my lawyer. When even Serino, “needs a lawyer”, you KNOW what I am talking about.

              • howie says:

                The state is on thin ice. They only have one chance. To try to use the many Zimmerman statements against him. Did you ever play “telephone” game. Where you have 20 people whisper some thing in the next ones ear? At the end it bears no resemblance to the start. That’s all they got.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                “Now, I would say, after a few questions….” Judging from what I have seen in this case, the decision to answer ANY questions other than name, address and phone number would be a BIG mistake.

                MY first words to anyone questioning me will henceforth be:
                “I WILL answer all your questions, but I want to be TECHNICALLY ACCURATE, so I need to answer through my lawyer.”

                • howie says:

                  All I would say is “am I free to go?”

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I have a hunch that George refused medical treatment because of the cost. That might also have influenced his decision to not get a lawyer. I do not know if the State is required to pay for a lawyer under such circumstances.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Nope, not before he’s charged. And unless you have a friend who’s a lawyer, hiring one requires some pretty good up-front money. Most like $500 minimum… likely more. Until he was charged, he couldn’t have requested a PD, so he was on his own.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    So would have happened if he requested a lawyer but could not afford one?

                  • jello333 says:

                    Hmm… hadn’t thought of that. I guess, since he was claiming self-defense from the start, they’d have to base things on the witnesses, etc. So if they followed the law, it seems to me they would have to let him go even without any statements from him. I think they’re allowed to hold a person for a few hours no matter what…. but eventually they gotta let them go. So yeah, I’m pretty sure that even had he not said a word beyond “It was self-defense”, and even if he never talked to a lawyer that night, they would have had to let him go. Not sure how many hours they have, though.

  16. waltherppk says:

    So is there any development on production of evidence involving the Crump or Gutman audio recordings of the “audio affidavit” of the alleged earwitness DeeDee ? And has there been any COMPLETE forensic report yet on the cell phone found at the scene to include PING LOGS ?

    • jordan2222 says:

      I received an email from Mark O’Mara on January 2nd, stating that he should “have results in about 15 days” which is today. Maybe we will see something soon on the website. I had called his attention to something DMan had stated on his website and he expressed his appreciation. Sorry but that is all I can say.

    • arkansasmimi says:

      missed ya Waltherppk! Been busy and away off and on, but havent seen you in a minute. :) hope all is good!

    • Sha says:

      I missed you Walther ppk ! Hadn’t heard Ping Logs in a while …. lol ! :)

      • waltherppk says:

        Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping ……on the road again …. LOL :D

        Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping – Ping

        On the twelvth Ping of Pingmas my Ping Log pinged to me, two subjects walking …
        four subjects talking ….and a hooded thuggie in a townhouse tree ROFLMAO :D

      • myopiafree says:

        Walther is correct. The STATE need to pry (electronically) open that “Heart” Cell phone. They are afraid they will find a picture of TM smoking pot, and making “drank”. Further, they are afraid that they will find that the phone was electronically DEAD during that last five minutes, and there is no possibilty that TM was talking to DeeDee – and she was just a BIG LIE – ALL THIS TIME.

  17. eastern2western says:

    It was all evident from the very beginning because the detective can not even answer key critical questions. even sunny hostin knew this trial will not go far, but she ignorred the critical question and diverted the topic to bond conditions. lol, how can a freaking lead detective does not even know who started the fight and his major piece of evidence is the stupid 911 recording. that is all they have and also zimmerman inconsistencies because he did not repeat his story word by word. Oh god, hostin was shocked, but she did not admit how horrible this case will turn out because of her followers are black. HA HA.

    • jordan2222 says:

      This case is truly bizarre and defies logic. None of these criminal proceedings make sense and certainly are not done in accordance with current Florida law. It really does look like the State can do whatever they want insofar discovery. They can withhold it as long as they want and they can present fragments of discovery. They have not even been required to produce chains of custody. Yet, they have not once been punished.

      Any ordinary judge might have dismissed the case at the first bond hearing after the State said under oath that they have no proof of who started the fight and many other things that made the charging document appear to be totally without merit.

      Even though I understand most, if not, all of the political and racial aspects, I am not getting how this can go on in violation of all generally accepted trial procedures. This would not even qualify as a bad movie because it’s too absurd and nonsensical and it damn sure ain’t funny.

      Back off for a day. Then think about it and I bet most of you would arrive at the same conclusion.

      The video above says it all. Case dismissed.

      • howie says:

        I just hope it is an outlier case. I hope.

      • jello333 says:

        “I am not getting how this can go on in violation of all generally accepted trial procedures. This would not even qualify as a bad movie because it’s too absurd and nonsensical and it damn sure ain’t funny…. Back off for a day. Then think about it and I bet most of you would arrive at the same conclusion.”

        I don’t need a day to think about it. I already agree with you.

  18. brutalhonesty says:

    Let me preface this with 2 things:
    1 follow me on twitter https://twitter.com/GMiller43362425
    2 my dem polititian stepdads answer is “well the right wing has fox”

    I participated in the twitter town hall #stopthefuneral yesterday, an anti-gun town hall ran by racist black “bishop”s and “reverend”s. Claiming a coming together of diversity against gun violence yet all promoting it and tweeting it were of one color shade. Twitter suspended my account within 12 tweets to the town hall. I filled out their thing for it, and when I came back to it today i was un-suspended, but ALL of my follows and followers were gone. I was following 700 or so and I had 220 or so following me. All removed and back to zero. WTF?!?

    So basically I barely even used my twitter yet was suppressed…..Robert Zimmerman’s twitter was suspended his first 24 hours on twitter, yet the fake one lasted (have not checked…is the fake one still up @rzimmerrmanjr ?) at least a few weeks my last checking of it…if its up today, well then.
    4 years ago I lost my original phone and credit card verified facebook that had family and friends and a relationship with a profile that has children and so on.,.photos, tags in photos of friends…everything that proves its real indisputably….yet was removed as a fake profile. All because I began supporting az sb 1070 against illegal immigration, and posted on public forums.
    My next real profile was stalked, maps posted to my house, false reported, for posting on the white house facebook page. This profile has been on non-stop 30 day bans, with 2-5 day breaks inbetween, ever since I began supporting George ZImmerman…yet absolutely nothing I ever post factually violates fb tos…with exception of when I pointed out how stephen martin had tweeted calling george a cracker…..the trayvonites reported it as a racial slur. pathetic isnt it?

    My point being, there has to be something illegal, or at least wrong to where it should appeal to liberals and their emotional feelings about fairness that obama keeps saying, about the fact facebook and twitter refuse to allow conservatives to build social networks to disseminate information. this issue is also two fold….since facebook and twitter are THE places to be….if we are silenced, then they give the public perception that our views are either non-existant, or “fringe” “right wing extremist”….
    Its essentially about pushing an agenda via fabricating a false aura in the air. To sum it up best “the radio plays what they want you to hear, tell me its cool, i just dont believe it”.

    And Im sorry, but “well let conservatives create their own version of fb” doesnt cut it….who wants to be surrounded by 10000000 people shouting the same thing you did, in the grand canyon…to hear your own thoughts echoed back? (oh duh, apparently liberals….such as natalie jacksons number one rule..all facts will be blocked)

    • howie says:

      I have not really changed my mind about much since 1960. Then I was a Democrat. Today I am far right on the scale.. That should explain it. I have not changed. The country has.

      • LouDaJew says:

        you must have remembed when MLK spoke bout the content of one’s character. you can’t even discuss Trayvon’s character without being called a racist. even MOM is keeping his school records protected which I don’t agree with.

        • eastern2western says:

          since we have been classified as the new neo nacies, I am afraid that you can not participate in this blog and go join the new black panthers because they are the new freedom fighters.

        • howie says:

          I do. I remember separate water fountains and other facilities and the whole back of the bus routine. And schools. It did not seem like there was this much animosity though. The civil rights act was passed and that was it. It was really only in a few hotspots that all the action took place. At least as I recall it. Generally. The remedies do not appear to have worked.

        • howie says:

          Their real agenda is socialism. It is a s simple as that. The 2nd amendment is, after all, a civil right.

          • LouDaJew says:

            I don’t believe that’s on the agenda. I do believe white people don’t ride the bus anymore. the last one I remember was Epic Beard man. white people don’t use public transportation because they don’t want to be involved in an altercation with some black kid that is looking to intimidate a white to look good in front of his friends. there is a huge problem with the safety of riding public transportation IMO.

            • howie says:

              I was in Miami and ended up at the far north end of the train one night by accident.. Way up in the hood. Whew! I lucked out and caught the last one of the night south. It was a kine of strange feelin. I woulda felt better with a pistol in my waist.

      • jordan2222 says:

        “I have not changed. The country has.”
        Lot of truth to that.

    • ejarra says:

      I went there and see that I was a follower and still am. @ejarra

    • tara says:

      I used comment on DailyKos. During the 2008 primaries I expressed my support for H Clinton instead of Obama and I was quickly squelched. Then I went to a web site for H Clinton supporters and after a posting a couple of messages, nice messages, suggesting that we make nice with the Obama supporters because we might need their help later on, I was squelched again. The Dems claim to be the tolerant ones but they are exactly the opposite. They don’t want diversity, debate, or even discussion. They insist on homogeneity, and they will force the state if necessary.

      • jello333 says:

        I was there for 4 1/2 years, and at first was an Obama supporter. But little by little, I turned against him, until I (and many of my friends) reached the point that we spoke out forcefully against him. It was then that we all started being called racists (among other things). A few months ago, I finally had enough, and called out the OBots and the site in general for their crass, blatant hypocrisy. The fact that the same people who blasted Bush for years for doing X, Y, and Z were now defending and even praising Obama for doing the same X, Y, and Z. I called them out on that, and guess what? Markos himself came into the thread and personally banned me. I mean attacked me personally, and made a public point of doing so. I guess I should be honored. ;)

        • howie says:

          Congratulations. By now you must realize he is all about destroying the Bill of Rights. The very one that freed the slaves and all. Ya know that ole 14th amendment is awful inconvenient. Same with the fifth , sixth, first, 2nd, ….heck all of them. I don’t know if people realize what they voted for.

          • jello333 says:

            Oh yeah. I now realize the man cares nothing about civil rights, nothing about human rights (here or around the world), and cares more about the feelings and fortunes of Wall Street and bankster types than he does about the average American.

          • tara says:

            I’m even more bothered by increasing welfare. I live in Chicago and I see the abuses every single day, people who could work but won’t because they can get their free money, free housing, free transportation, free cell phones, free food. I used to be very ignorant, I thought people who received public assistance were necessarily in need. I now think that maybe 10% are truly needy. I have no problem helping those people, but I’m angered that I am forced to provide for the scammers. The Dems do nothing about it, they do nothing to protect the system and ensure that the scammers don’t abuse it. They just give away more and more and more to garner votes.

            I wish you could all see Chicago’s cable access programming. I saw a show the other day of a CHA (Chicago Housing Authority) event. There was a panel of speakers, several were residents of the projects who are organizers for the complaining residents. They don’t just want safe places to live, they want new housing with new appliance and carpet. Big units in the middle of the city that even a middle class couple like my husband and I can’t afford. They don’t want to be jammed into isolated high rises because it’s embarassing for them, they want to be mixed in with people who are more affluent (as if they could possibly blend in). No regard at all for what those of us who are providing their support think. They just demand, GIVE ME, and the Dems provide. The greedy scammers and their enabler Dem politicians have turned me into a Republican. I might not be happy with everything the Republican party does, but I can say that they encourage self-sufficience and personal responsibility FAR more than the Dems do, and that’s what is most important to me. And Republicans don’t hypocritically demonize the wealthy, which I can appreciate because even though I’m not wealthy I admire people who work hard to be wealthy, and I don’t have any hatred for those who were lucky enough to be born into wealth. Life is not “fair” in the sense of equitable, but here in the US we have a great deal of ability to make our lives as we wish them to be.

      • Patriot Dreamer says:

        Remember Bill Ayers and his buddies were planning to murder 25 million Americans to get their Progtopia.

    • jello333 says:

      No, that’s just wrong what they’re doing to you. Totally wrong. But it’s not “liberals” in general doing it…. as you know, I’m one of those. It’s CERTAIN TYPES of liberals, just as certain types of conservatives try to do stuff like that to THEIR “enemies”. I know that starting back about 2003, and continuing for a few years, I had massive problems with people trying to shut me down…. because of my leftist points of view. And the attacks were coming from the right of me. And what’s funny now is that some people STILL try to shut me down…. and although it’s still coming from the right of me…. it’s now mostly Dems, mostly Obamabots who are attacking me. Just like you and others more on the right get attacked by them, so do we on the far left. Just in general, they hate ANYONE who disagrees with them… whether those disagreements are regarding Obama, or whether they are regarding George. At any given time, there are AUTHORITARIAN types out there who HATE to be challenged. And right now, those just happen to be Obama, the race-baiters, and their allies on the “left” (which, as I’ve said, are only some fraudulent PARTS of the “left”).

      But anyway, yeah, I’ll gladly speak up for you, and condemn those that are doing it, no matter where they stand on the political spectrum.

  19. jacob says:

    i can write a java program in 1/2 day to spam you 24/7 you focking commies.
    you silly right wingers fock with the wikileak libs.

  20. jacob says:

    you censorship jerk offs i will shut you down. your silly analysis of TM is soooo laughable. and the racist libby, can’t write a paragraph without some racial remark. clearly a bunch of wal-mart workers here.

    can’t wait to have my fun.

  21. jacob says:

    be prepared for thousands of e-mails , i’ll eat up your e-mail space. he he he he he.
    you’re manually deleting me , huh, dickweed?.

    laugh all you want 2 yars as an Linux IT admin, 25 as a developer, 10 of which was Military AI.
    I will fock your site up, I’m getting more and more motivated to waste my time to make your web sitre unworkable, he he he ha ha ha ho ho ho

    After we’re done playing, we can set you up for automatic delete. No prob.

    • eastern2western says:

      even if u shut us down, you can not stop the truth from coming out.

    • WeeWeed says:

      Junior!! Is that you, you assclown?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      I will fock your site up, I’m getting more and more motivated to waste my time to make your web sitre unworkable

      Awww, a script kiddie. Aren’t you cute?

      laugh all you want 2 yars as an Linux IT admin, 25 as a developer, 10 of which was Military AI.

      So, that’s in World of Warcraft years, right? Wait: “Military AI”? Call of Duty, then.

      he he he ha ha ha ho ho ho

      Might want to lay of the nitrous oxide.

    • Justice4All says:

      Traybots reduced to violating federal law……LMAO!!!!

    • jello333 says:

      Seriously? You really think you’re the only person around here who knows anything about hacking? Nah… if you know as much as you claim, you KNOW you’d be setting yourself up for a 3AM knock on your door and arrest for cyber crimes. But if you really wanna go that route… fine, go for it.

  22. jordan2222 says:


    What the hell is going on? Who is this guy?

    • WeeWeed says:

      I think it’s our old friend, Junior, Jordie – he’s been spreading hate and discontent and screeching “raaaaayycciiiiisssss!!!!” from the moderation queue all day, and I thought I’d let his ignorant ass out for a minute. Y’all be sure and screencap him…..

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Who is this guy?

      I would hazard a guess that our guest is but a variation on a daily theme for our site admins, and they decided that today was a good day to draw back the curtain, and shine some light on the dregs of the CTH comment moderation queue.

      If so: fantastic! I’ve been thinking of suggesting a weekly “Mailbag of Hate” post, in which the admins pick some of the (ahem) better examples of moderated comments from the past week. What they’ve done here is almost as good.

  23. jacob says:


  24. jacob says:




    • WeeWeed says:

      :roll: Yep. I censored that, alright.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Caps-lock is bad form for anything other than a defined constant. You know, something like:

      <?php define( 'JACOB', 'useless script-kiddie troll' ); ?>

      As a developer with a quarter-century of programming experience, I’m surprised you don’t know that.

      • stellap says:

        What strikes me is how poorly he types. Odd for someone who codes for a living, don’t you think?

      • WeeWeed says:

        IF he’s who I think he is, Chip, he’s “also” an FBI dude that’s gonna bomb my trailer park into next week. Y’all get tired of playin’ with him, lemme know and I’ll have FDR snatch him. :D

        • Chip Bennett says:

          Sometimes, when guests all but beg to be ridden hard and put away wet, you just have to oblige them… even if that guest is a self-avowed Linux-IT-Military-AI-programmer-nee-FBI-Agent.

          • WeeWeed says:

            That’s what I love about you! You’re always so nice to everybody. You didn’t even call him an asshat or anything! :D

          • dmoseylou says:

            Sorry, Chip, but I do NOT have to oblige them. I greatly enjoy this GZ thread, and simply do not understand the reasons posters feel compelled to respond to Trolls who cause the discussion and debates to deteriorate. They are NOT here to have honest questions answered or engage in legitimate debate / discourse. They have one goal and one goal only. Complete destruction of discourse and if they pizz off a bunch of people while they are at—that’s all the better to them. I prefer they slither back into the sewers they slithered out from…quickly.

            • Chip Bennett says:

              Fair enough, and I totally get that. But if the admins want to play a little bring out the gimp, I take that to mean that they expect a little fighting-fire-with-fire engagement.

              And that was just the bit of fun that I needed today.

              Anyway, back to business as usual…

            • WeeWeed says:

              Dear, one goal is to screen-cap the death threats and racist mess these paid antagonists spew. This is done in the moderation/spam queue and you do NOT see 99% of it so that y’all may enjoy your discussion. Every now and then, however, I wake up bad. :D
              Carry on.

              • dmoseylou says:

                Thank you for that explanation. I did not know that. I meant no disrespect to Chip or any one else here. Again, thanks.

                • WeeWeed says:

                  No problemo! Everyone knows I wake up bad, and y’all enjoy the practice. It’s all good.

                  • jello333 says:

                    I like to think of us here sorta like a really cool cat we had up till a couple years ago. The little guy died, and I still miss him. Anyway, like all cats, he loved to chase mice. And like most cats, if he caught or cornered one, he liked to play with it for awhile. But unlike any other cat I’ve ever seen, he would NEVER hurt the thing, let alone kill it. We would hear him scampering around the house, and maybe hear a few little squeaks, and we’re like, “He’s chasing a mouse again.” So we’d go check. Now I haven’t gotten much into our family’s background re. animals, but I’ll just tell you we HATE to kill anything unless it’s absolutely necessary. We use “live” traps for mice, and let them go out in the woods, etc, etc. So when one of our other cats would kill a mouse, we didn’t think that was very funny. But our one cat, like I say, would never so much as hurt them. So we got so, when he’d corner one, we’d go over and grab it, toss it in a jar or something, and let it go outside. Did that many, many times over the years. And we had this running joke that he was actually doing those mice a FAVOR. He was teaching them a lesson that they’d never forget, and would probably save them if they ever ran into a cat that wasn’t as nice as him.

                    Well yeah, I know I’m just being goofy now… but it was just to say this: That’s what we do here. When the trolls come here, we may play with them a bit, may teach them a thing or two, but in the end we do NOT do any real damage to them. We just send them back where they came from. And if they’ve got any intelligence at all, maybe they’ll have learned a thing or two from their ill-advised excursion.

                    (Yeah, that was a real stretch, but admit it… you liked it, eh? ;) )

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    You caught rats and mice and let them go? Jello, you have a weird side, not dark, just strange. That’s a lot of compassion you got there, my friend.

                    I have always had Springer Spaniels and they are death to a rat. Once in a while, citrus rats get in because I have citrus trees. I got up one morning after an “invasion” to find six of them dead, lined up perfectly in one neat row, next to a set of glass doors, ready for a funeral.

                    I love my oranges and grapefruits, but there is a price to pay with citrus rats.

                  • jello333 says:

                    “lined up perfectly in one neat row, next to a set of glass doors, ready for a funeral.”

                    Wow, that’s quite a visual there. ;) Nah, I know the issue with wild mice and rats. It’s just that many years ago we decided a rat might be a cool pet. So we got one. And we had TOTALLY underestimated how cool they are, and how attached we’d become. We’ve had a few over the years, along with dogs and cats and other little guys. And maybe it’s just something weird about me, but I can see just as much personality in a rat (at least some of the ones we’ve had) as I can a dog or cat or whatever. Yeah I KNOW wild ones are different, but after the experiences we’ve had with our pets, it’s hard to look at the wild ones as the horrible, scary creatures some people (not you) like to make them.

                    You guys are liable to find out all kinds of weird stuff about me before we’re done! ;)

            • jordan2222 says:


              You and I have always been on the same page with this issue.

              My suggestion is to have a separate daily thread for “trolls” and discussions regarding comments by the Trayvonites on other sites. Rumpole2 could probably start the thread every day as he does here now.

              Imagine someone who is looking for a site that has legitimate, honest, intelligent discussion about this case coming here for THE VERY FIRST TIME today and seeing this mess. Oh, boy.

            • rumpole2 says:

              I think if we were deep in discussion of new aspects of the case the gnat would be ignored/dealt with by admin.
              But with not a lot happening I actually enjoy reading Chip’s retorts. They sometimes do contain a handy recap of FACTS in the case.. and even if just sparring fun to read when not much else is happening

              • justfactsplz says:

                I think so too. We can’t go around with our heads in the sand and pretend these people don’t exist. When we know what their lies are it makes it easier to point out facts and evidence to disprove them and possibly make people on the fence think a little harder.

    • Justice4All says:

      $1,000 says Jacob wastes a 1/2 writing code and his spam bot never happens……….

      • jacob says:

        I’ll take that bet. how will you pay me?

        • jello333 says:

          In DeeDee Dollars, of course. But I’ll up the wager: I’ll bet you a crumpzillion DeeDee Dollars. Deal?

        • Justice4All says:

          If you have 1/2 a day to write code for a spam bot,,,you probably are on welfare and do not have a job….Sorry but I will not accept my own money as payment for a bet, more importantly a bet with you would offer a you a high degree of correlation therefore you are exempt……offer still stands for anybody besides Jacob.

  25. jacob says:


  26. jacob says:

    all I want to do is defend TM. Why does that scare you? that’s why you all are like the commies.

    oh btw, I have ADD and a sticky keyboard. I have many different thoughtS on different projects ALL AT RUN TIME.. Meaning, while typing, I can type about 1 subject and process 2 others. Therfore words get missed. Sorry about that but IT IS WHAT IT IS. But since I’m not Zimmerman my ADD is used against me. ha ha ha ho ho ho he he he,

    • Chip Bennett says:

      all I want to do is defend TM.

      <?php PHP Fatal error: Call to undefined function jacob_trayvonmartin_defense() in theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/01/17/01-17-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread on line 4380 ?<

      Those pesky syntax errors will get you every time.

    • rumpole2 says:

      How noble of you.
      Only….. Trayvon is dead.
      He could have done with somebody like you who only wanted to look out for him… when he was alive.

      I am sure there are other kids near where you live.. alive now, but on a third suspension from school etc and getting no guidance from their parents. Ask around.

      George is alive and being vilified and persecuted. He is in a serious battle with a somewhat corrupt judicial system in Florida. He has to contend with the lies and false narrative promoted by “The Scheme Team” and promulgated by Lynch Mob web sites and their foot soldier trolls like you. Nobody expects YOU to actively help George.. but it might help a little if you just STFU

      BTW… the “Caps Lock” key is on the left of the keyboard and it is handily labelled “caps Lock”

    • eastern2western says:

      is this mr gaylord fogger?

  27. jacob says:

    What kind of adult calls himself Chip? The kind that respects the parents who gave him that name enough to continue to use it. (You know, parents: the people in who’s basement you currently reside?)

    They did not christian you CHIP, come on. nice that you brought up parents. If someone thought you did something wrong at age 17, would your parents support you? So why is it so terrible TM mother believes her son is innocent? She’s a working mother at the same job for 15-20 years now. NOT THE GOON. Why do you assume she raided AL CAPONE? She believe it so I believe it. In addition if TM school record can be constured as an indicator of possible criminal activity, than what of Zimmerman’s two assaults?

    And I own 2 houses, paid off. I raised two kids one 21 bumming around, another at London school of economics. NOT THE GOON.

    • stellap says:

      Ah, I see Dr. Jekyll has appeared.

      • jello333 says:

        Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. “So the dude is actually capable of writing a halfway coherent, non-frothing comment.”

      • Omar says:

        Well….I guess it could be “constured” as that, Sharon…..whatever that means. I guess the troll and I go to different Mensa meetings….but I’ll be sure to look him/her/it up next time and get the definition of the word.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      They did not christian you CHIP, come on.


      There, fixed that for you.

      And christening isn’t a practice performed in independent Christian churches, but thanks for playing!

    • I LOVE that this is the “competition” :)

      • eastern2western says:

        competition for mr popularity? these trayvonites seem to have some kind of high school logic of competing because they never present the facts.

    • howie says:

      A real point. Well I doubt his grades will be admitted. The two assaults you speak of by Zimmerman will for sure not be admitted. But under certain situations both could be considered. This is called “discovery.” This is not a trial. Some of what is discovered will be considered “relevant.” That will be admitted as evidence. Other things that are discovered will not be considered relevant. They will not be allowed as evidence. I suggest you study the rules. You may discover that you are doing a disservice to the many black kids that are in the same situation as Zimmerman. At the hands of the very people (Corey and Co.) that you seem to admire so much.

  28. jordan2222 says:

    What happened to the George Zimmerman thread? Geeshhh.

  29. eastern2western says:

    I guess there is a saint trayvon syndrome going around and reality can not cure it at all.

  30. brutalhonesty says:

    Photos from their little $50 per person gathering where they handed out some scholarships. all in attendance are black. all recipients are black. hmmm.






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